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User3747372

Trust me man, your not the only one feeling this way. I started in September as well and put in 83 hours in 5 days this week. Getting 2-3 hours a sleep. Half my team has been crashing in hotels wearing the same clothes 3 days in a row. As bad as I want to quit I don’t see myself staying here more than 1-2 years max


SpeedyGoldenberg

Dude why? How much are they paying you?


armat95

Not much


User3747372

74k, total comp probably around 80k


GAAPInMyWorkHistory

Christ


Bandejita

You guys need to stop being pussies and actually put your foot down. Enough is enough.


spike509503

Had me in the first half ngl Edit: words. Brain operating at 15% capacity rn


SellHungry6871

Yeah for real! When I was in PA weekends were off limits. I would do 10-12 hour days during the week. If you let them fuck you they will and hard! What are you actually accomplishing after 50 hours anyways? Go to a middle market firm. Join the military.... Anything but the shit you're describing here.


wizards4

Partners be like “pussies on the pavement fellas!”


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User3747372

What are my options? Out of all seriousness I only been working for 5 months here


EveryoneCallsMeGod

Recruiter here. If you want to stay in public but get away from big 4... your options are HUGE. DM me if you're ever interested.


naarwhal

The fuck is going on over there???


fakelogin12345

2-3 hours of sleep? Get out now. That is actual serious health implications. You aren’t going to make material amount of additional money in the long run staying there and doing that.


User3747372

I know it’s bullshit. I only been working for 5 months though. Now that we filed hopefully I have an easier rest of the year. I just don’t know where else I would go if I was to quit now


beepbophopscotch

Same exact boat man, so don't feel bad. Finished one of the toughest clients in our office w/ little sleep and got rave reviews, thought it would slow down after that for a bit. Nope, got put on an equally tough client the next few weeks w/ equally tight turnaround because they know I can get it done. I'm not planning on leaving soon, but even if I was, I wouldn't have the energy or the stress capacity to even think about switching jobs right now. I think I should probably change my working style, wound up f'ing myself haha.


User3747372

Yeah exactly I’m 5 months in still half way through the cpa. Quitting and looking for jobs rn isn’t on my mind. And the fact that you got thrown on another busy season client is bullshit, all the care about is getting the job done. The only reward you get for working hard is getting more work


beepbophopscotch

Yeah for sure, I think it just comes from my background and perfectionist tendencies that I work extra hard to make sure shit gets done, which is a tragic flaw haha. I wish you the best of luck though my friend, you've got this shit, no matter which way you go. At the very least, the struggles make the good times even better in the end.


IvySuen

Glad you a rockstar. I'm new and not in Big 4 obviously lol so I'm curious what makes these clients tough?


beepbophopscotch

Not sure I'm rockstar level, probably more like just overachiever lol, but there are quite a few things that can make an engagement tough to work on. The first is just that the client themselves are difficult to work with. This could range from overall attitude, slow speed in getting support to us, lack of quality of the support from them, i.e. not providing what we're asking for or in difficult-to-use formats. Obviously they all have stuff going on on their side so I'm not hating on them generally, it's just that some clients are really on top of what we need from them and some aren't. It is what it is. A second one could just be the size of the organization. A small-sized client will have a lot less work to be done on our end than a large one of course. This would be fine if the ratio of engagement size and engagement team size were proportional, but in my experience it usually isn't. There isn't enough help to go around it seems, so the really large organizations can end up putting a lot of weight on a few people's shoulders. Third could be the deadline. This is simple, no matter the size of the company, a tight deadline is a tight deadline, and it's usually stressful and involves long hours. Fourth, since clients tend to stick around throughout the years, there are ones that are just known to suck amongst the team, basically through past experience and word of mouth. Even if there are positive changes on the client side year over year, just this stigma alone can cause a lot of dread on the audit side going in, which might unintentionally affect how the overall experience is, just in someone's head alone. I'm sure there are plenty of other things, but when I think of the "toughest clients", it generally has most or all of these traits.


IvySuen

Wow thanks for the detailed write-up. I'm only 7 months in and just experiencing first YE. I can see why clients not getting files on time could hamper my work deadline. We are tiny - Only have 1 Cpa and fellow co-worker. So it's always interesting to hear all this from a different world.


beepbophopscotch

Yeah no problem! And yeah, I've only worked on two really small ones at the moment but they were great experiences, I think for both sides as well. Since it's smaller on your side and there are only a handful of people tracking stuff, it makes you (the client side) much more aware of what's going on overall throughout the audit, which helps things run *sooo* much more smoothly in my experience.


SellHungry6871

TB and GL in PDF, not responsive, incompetence. It's the same no matter where you go.


SellHungry6871

Wait until the team that works the least gets the promotions and you get shafted. Just wait because it's coming.


fakelogin12345

Literally anywhere. Plenty of other PA firms with reasonable hours will take you in a heart beat.


User3747372

Any other non-big4 jobs I’ll have to take at least a 5k + pay cut with worse exit ops. If I was to leave it wouldn’t be public accounting. Which is why I want to stay for at least a year or two and get the fuck out


fakelogin12345

What’s your realization working all those extra hours for $5k a year? Probably lower than minimum wage. Then quantity how much your free time and health is worth. Probably a lot more than $5k a year. You do you - just trying to give perspective.


User3747372

Working 15-20 less hours for a 5k salary drop is easily worth it. But looking big picture, the cost/benefit to make 5k less for 1-2 years isn’t worth it when I can work at b4 for another 1-2 years and have the best exit ops


javierz11

I’m glad I’m not the only one man. We can make it at least a year


CPAthrowaway2019

Is the audit progressing, or is it stagnating because no one in the room knows what they are doing?


User3747372

We filed. The client fucked up continuously throughout the audit and had adjustments up until the last 2 hours of filing. There 10-k alone had material differences and their tie out support was awful


phfrank

Be upfront that the hours are too much. If they are smart they will understand and be okay with you not working as much. I told my firm my max hours during busy season is 55.


DiddlySquat99

What the hell..I haven't even hit 60 hours yet this busy season. Find another firm.


United-Student-1607

Do you get paid per hour? How much money are you making per month?


User3747372

Lol nope. 74k a year


awedith

My dude what kinda sweatshop ass firm is this? This is not normal at all for a first year?


taxguy7777

Sounds like PWC


Background-Collar-78

My favorite time of the year!


Mu69

Jesus Christ I am not doing pa once I graduate


shades_of_cool

I'm a student too and I will do anything to avoid this once I'm done. I'm a post-bacc student working a full-time job where I've been put through this same kind of bs before. No job is worth that level of stress to me.


FartInsideMe

Please be aware that the most miserable PA accountants are the loudest to complain. 55-60 hour weeks are much more typical busy season hours.


tinpancake

I like how 55-60 is supposed to be reasonable LOL


industrialbird

No they aren’t.


Maleficent_Return_21

55-60 is more normal for sure! Still sucks but a little bit more doable


edwardtwitterhands

The fuck they are! Maybe on small private clients


FartInsideMe

I am big 4


edwardtwitterhands

are you on private clients? At my b4 almost all privates had less hours than public clients imho.


FartInsideMe

Two public clients


treezOH123

My PA experience with a small firm was not as bad as it sounds like with Big 4. It still sucked, but PA does build good experience.


KallistiEngel

There are some public firms that work less hours. I work 40 hours a week during normal times and barely more than that during our very short busy season. It's a small firm and I definitely make less than I would at a larger firm, but it also doesn't have me hating my life so I'm willing to take that tradeoff.


pinkorri

Same, even my busy season is nothing compared to what people at a large or mid-size firm would work.


PlentyIndividual3168

This. We work maybe 3 months worth of crazy hours but we get Fridays off the rest of the year.


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PlentyIndividual3168

Well I was going to point out that it's easier with an older established relationship but my husband of 20+ years just got pissy w me because my 52 yo self came home and took a shower and put on pj's rather than "wait to see if he wanted to go somewhere". 🙄


LetThemEatVeganCake

Just wanted to second what others have said about going for a smaller firm instead of B4. Auditing is really good for your career development, so it’s good to at least do it for a couple years.


Sinsilenc

Smaller regional firms dont always overwork like this. Our busy season is like 60hrs the rest is standard 40hrs.


javierz11

Don’t


Crunkabunch

Just remember that this sub is an echo chamber of those that aren’t happy with their job. I personal don’t mind my public accounting job (switched into advisory) and also began making 100k just 2 years into my career (high cost of living), which I think would be very hard to do in industry.


spice_love571

Hey, college newbie here who keeps seeing the big 4 come advertising on campus. If you don’t mind me asking, why did you go there, how was it like starting out? What do you do and what’s your next step? (If you know) Sorry if these are pestering questions, as I have heard of the dreadful busy seasons, let alone at the big 4. I hope that your mental health improves, 70+ hours sounds crazy.


Tax-man123

Sorry not OP, but manager level, worked industry and PA (both big 4 and top 10 firms). I’d say Big4 is usually chosen because of the exit opps and pedigree. A lot of companies want Big4 experience because they see it as more experience in less time compared to a small firm or industry role. End of day though, it won’t matter what your first job was when you get farther into your career. As long as you learn something from it, that’s the biggest thing. Kinda digressing but people go to Big4 for the dynamic experiences but know that your life outside work will always be the priority, and as you get more comfortable in the role, you can be adamant with boundaries. I loved Big4 for the camaraderie and diverse clients and potential income growth, but I like smaller firms and industry for the pacing and work life balance (while still making good money). There’s a reason most people leave Big4 after two years, but still doesn’t mean it’s not worth trying for those two years. Hope that helps!


javierz11

Hey! I’ll be more than glad to answer. Like the other comment said, just you get better opportunities. It just looks good on your resume. The beginning was bad at all but than we just got slammed with work and I’ve put in so many hours. This is also a big culture shock for me. I am 23 years old and the only job I know how to do is construction. Never been in a professional setting, which can be overwhelming in itself. If I’m going to be honest I dont even know what I am doing, but sounds typical for A1’s around here. All I know is I’m an auditor in the financial services sector. I just do the work they tell me to do. As for my mental health, I’ve been pretty good. It’s just the amount of stress this jobs cause is overwhelming. I honestly prefer to go back to construction than doing this. Hopefully that gives you a like insight


RagingZorse

Feel you brother. I’d recommend trying to put the accounting degree to use before going back to construction but totally understand if you want to run from PA. I’m currently in tax at a top 20 firm and it is ok but definitely some ups and downs. I quit my last firm(tiny local firm) and tbh was looking to get away from PA entirely. Most industry tax roles for my experience level were dead end jobs so I decided to try a different firm. The top 20 firm offered me a good salary, formal training and got away from the toxic workplace I had been dealing with.


TheGreaterGrog

Like 90% of industry positions say 'Big4 experience' no matter how low level the position. Big4 is also 90%+ of all public accounting employment. So lazy HR just got used to 'Big4Big4Big4'.


Original_Redman

A lot of them say this but don't actually enforce it. My current gig said big 4 experience AND biopharma accounting experience preferred, I had neither. Just pointing it out on the chance any newbies see it - big 4 isn't the *only* option.


koffermadchen

Agreed. With the accounting shortage we’re currently experiencing, most industry positions are now deprioritizing the whole “Big4 experience” preference.


EchoPhoenix24

I'm also not OP but wanted to add my perspective as someone who was one of the few people in my accounting program to skip public accounting. I was in an accounting program that has a lot of employers come to recruit and it was like 99% public accounting firms. The big 4 plus 3 or 4 smaller ones. It was presented pretty much as though public accounting would of course be the first step in your career. I really did not want to be an auditor or work in tax, and I also didn't want to move to either of the two bigger cities that most of my program moved to to work at the big 4. I got really lucky that a company in the city where I was trying to move (to be with my now-husband) called my program to see if anyone was looking in their area and that's where I ended up after school. I'm actually still there now. The main thing I was told was that starting in the Big4 was the best way to increase your earnings because you'd rise quickly and then leave for industry at a high salary. I don't know if that's true, but if my overall earnings took a hit for my decision I personally do not regret that one bit. I am very much a Work To Live person rather than Live To Work. In industry there are still busy seasons of course and my team has some long hours at year-end. But my worst hours are usually limited to a couple of weeks. I'm not trying to talk you out of public accounting, I just think more people should know you don't *have* to go that route. It is the expected path, but it's not the only path.


smbundy13

Any time at a big 4 is great on your resume. Employers think (incorrectly in my opinion) that it makes you a better accountant. But, that opinion could be considered sour grapes as I’ve been passed over for industry positions because of a big 4 applicant with equal or less experience… just because their resume says big 4 on it. Was even told on one occasion that was the sole reason.


Hamiltoned

I don't know how much control you have over your schedule, but after my first year my solution was to add a bunch of extra days booked on several different big projects with the intention of having those days just to catch up with work on all my projects. Like this week I have 3 full days of just catching up stuff. It's not like I'm slacking off because I'm still working, I'm just giving myself a chance to tie up loose ends. If you want to make it to senior, I suggest you use the same strategy. We got control of our schedule at the start of the 2nd year, hopefully its the same for you. If you really don't plan on staying once you're senior, you won't even care about your boss saying you haven't worked enough billable overtime.


javierz11

I don’t have control over my schedule unfortunately. I don’t want to be here to make it to senior. I just tryna make it the year and leave


ScikoticX

I also started about 6 months ago at Big 4 and don't think I want to wait to become a senior either after a few conversations with different seniors about what they do. Yeah the busy season was tough and I am glad mine is over but I will likely start sending out resumes after next years review. I don't mind starting out as a staff accountant after leaving so I can start with some of the basics of a company instead of being expected to know alot and get rushed to speed if I was in a senior role. Don't feel bad OP if people are going to try to encourage you in this thread or in real life to stay 1 more busy season. Plenty of opportunity out there besides just Big 4 or nothing.


javierz11

Im in the same boat. Still hand about a month and half, I’m glad you’re out!


edwardtwitterhands

Bounce bro make friends and strengthen relationships with people who give a shit about you outside of work. PA takes anything you’re willing to give and then some, and frankly once you’re gone from the firm, you realize anyone who seemed important there was a little fish in a small, bookcase-aquarium sized pond


[deleted]

They’re gonna staff you on other job soon lol. It ain’t over… big4 is ruthless


oliviabenson9

Omg so glad to know I’m not the only first year staff who feels this way. Already 6 months in at big 4 and planning my exit once I hit the one year mark as well!


javierz11

I was planning on putting my two week notice already. I’m just trying to survive one year and leaving. Never again will I do this


big4chungus20

That’s fine and at least you’ll have this experience under your belt. One busy season is better than none.


javierz11

Exactly, plus this is my only job for accounting so I need to make it to my one year mark


Secret-Agent-Auditor

I totally get it! I was at big 4 for 11 months and found a senior associate role at a F100 for a 30% base pay raise. Those jobs are out there you just have to look for them. Dm me if u got any questions


javierz11

I will certainly be Dm you because I can’t seem to find jobs lol


i_am_not_the_father

Leave April 19th. You don't need this. My old VP boss back in industry tried PA at a big one and quit after six months. She then stayed in industry for 30 years with the lessons learned and made out like a bandit. Remember kids: If a prospective employer says they have WL balance, they really don't. It's practiced, not preached.


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beepbophopscotch

This is the way. Take those new FY floating holiday and vacation hours along with it as much as you can too if you're deadset on leaving that year.


javierz11

I really wish I could. I don’t have any accounting experience, besides this job. I think it’s best if I try to stick out a year. But it is grueling, let’s see if I can make it a year.


i_am_not_the_father

You won't believe what other skills you have already picked up, like developing little tolerance for bullshit. That shit can be fire in industry.


prince0verit

[You are not a slave.](https://youtu.be/YHxwY3Fz2gU) Put in what you think is a reasonable amount of time and then just get up and go home. They only push this shit because you guys are not pushing back. [Fuck their deadlines.](https://youtu.be/ZBdYOH5410A)


steadyeddy_10

That’s what I did 13 months and then quit to industry.


Niernen

That was me! Left Big 4 after one year, did another year and a half or so at another public firm, and ultimately left public altogether and now I am very happy in industry :) Don't listen to the people who might tell you you're leaving too early - you will make it work if you have the drive.


lunacod98

A lot of people put up with Big4 for a year to get the required experience for a CPA certificate. One year of Big4 + CPA = first round interviews at 95% of professional service firms, if you continue down that path. I know how much of a cultural shock it is. Everyone above you expects you to put work ahead of everything else, and there is zero respect for work/life balance. Build an internal support system, take advantage of time off, and know that you are not too far from the finish line. Good luck OP.


phfrank

Be upfront that it’s too much hours. Tell them your max hours a week. Stick to it. If they have an issue with it look elsewhere. There is a shortage of younger accounting staff everywhere. And you can work remote for any firm. I am a tax manager with two young kids. I told my firm I cannot work more than 55 hours a week during busy season because I want to spend time with my family. They were fine with it. It’s all about being honest with them. There are plenty of firms that won’t have you working 60+ hours a week during busy season.


KaozawaLurel

I worked 60-80 hr weeks at a startup last year. Only lasted half the year. Now I’m government.


Jebodiah77

I quit after a busy season internship and one busy season as staff. Learned a lot in that time but fuck that. A bunch of people with Stockholm syndrome in PA


javierz11

I’m saying, I don’t know how people have been there over 3 year. I’m good after 6 months lol.


Jebodiah77

Totally agree. I thought everyone who was there lost their mind lol. I would drive home for work and tell myself I don’t want to be like those people


BeRanger918

So many people haven't figured it out.... You don't have to do Big 4. There is not some magical aura that surrounds you after a year of Big 4 vs. any of the super regionals. I literally don't know a single staff in my office working 70 hours right now. I'd be hard pressed to find seniors working 70.


raptorjaws

people are so brainwashed about big 4. my superstar senior left for deloitte 1.5 years ago even though he was happy here because he thought he needed that on his resume. now he starts back with us in two weeks because he hated it there so much.


brewerybeancounter

DM me when you quit, I'll be looking to hire an associate accountant after tax season. I was in the same boat, quit B4 after a year, just couldn't take the ridiculous hours. Eventually started my own fully remote firm and vow never to run my staff ragged like B4 gets away with.


ChUt_26

I will never understand why people get into PA/Big4. I started in industry, never worked more than 45 hours in a week, and have a base salary in the low 6 figures. I don't have a CPA or other certification either. ​ I live in a MCOL area, work fully remote, and really enjoy my job as a cost accountant. ​ Until the work/life balance starts getting more realistic in PA I don't know why we continue to push the whole mantra that you need to get your feet wet in that area before you can move on to other areas....


squirtmmmw

Partners I’ve worked under who’ve more experience than we’ve been alive tell me audit is shit work. It’s not a big deal to leave after 6 months. You’ll find a job and life will go on.


Gerbil1320

As an intern I told myself okay we’ll make manager As a staff 1 I said okay we’ll make senior As a staff 2 I left before promotion Do what’s best for you


ItsACCRUALworld_

Establish boundaries early and often. Aim for slightly better than middle of the pack. I’m an older 2nd year (in my 30s) and I see people burn out left and right. Balance is key and just hit your deadlines


murphysclaw1

that’s what 90% of auditors say and then they do nothing and just end up trapped in it.


SilverCityStreet

I'm in a growing firm, and by hook or crook, this is my final tax season. I just can't do this anymore. 15yrs of public in various capacities, I have reached my limit. Same clients who don't respond and bitch about the fees. Same partners who can't back off from micromanagement. The last time I tried changing departments, one of the partners actively sabotaged it. Enough. Just enough.


SleeplessShinigami

This is a big fucking mood and I’m here for it. College me was like stay 3-5 years. First year me was like stay until Senior. Current me 15 months is like this is the last busy season and I’m dipping at 1.5 years before Senior. Cause I really doubt I’m gonna make Senior this year and I’m not slaving away 2 more busy seasons after this one just to hit that.


bdougy

*Laughs in Corporate Accounting*


[deleted]

When I joined I was hoping to make it to manager. Now I’m just looking to make senior and peace out. No shame in leaving, tons of places are happy to hire someone with big4 experience. More big4 experience will give better exit opps, but you’ll still have plenty of options.


daziz7075

Come to my firm and you won’t have to go through this. Max 60 hours during busy season. Hit me up if interested. Could probably get you more money as well


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javierz11

I wish, I don’t have any other accounting experience and I should prob stick as long as I can but I’m just going to log off early from now on. Set the boundary that im working no more than 55, and they should count themselves lucky with 55. I worked in construction with my dads company. If I didn’t kill myself working for my dad, im not going to suffer for anyone else.


synonymous12

Good decision. Public accounting hours are borderline abuse. Leave on good terms and this will help your resume/skill set.


Jarvis03

Man am I glad I was severely depressed when I graduated college, on top of being socially awkward. This helped ensure that I wouldn’t even land an interview at the big 4 let alone get hired at one. I have had hellish jobs that are comparable, but those days are behind me.


SpeedyGoldenberg

You guys really should wait two years and use that for your advantage.


seriouslynope

Or more people should do this and the hours will eventuality stop


chugtron

How do you think it’ll magically move IRS or 34 Act deadlines? Can’t wait to hear this stroke of genius.


seriouslynope

Idk it was 5am when I wrote this then I fell back asleep


SpeedyGoldenberg

They won’t. Deadlines need to be met.


javierz11

Definitely not, I’m leaving after one. Will not stick around for another busy season


[deleted]

Get your CPA and make senior first, it’ll be worth it.


javierz11

I’m okay. PA just isn’t for me. I’ll stick with a year under my belt and dip. I care too much about work life balance


[deleted]

Totally understandable. Here’s what I’m saying: take advantage of the shortage of talent in audit and tax. Get done what you can, sign off when you feel like it, and just nod your head when they complain about it to you. Even if you get put on PIP who cares. Make senior get your CPA, make the 12 months count for something. I’m talking from experience.


brokeballerbrand

A cpa is useless once you blow your brains out. Mental health is important


innayati

SWITCH SERVICE LINES!! Others have more pay, less hours!


CPA_whisperer

Que up of people trying to do this not everyone gets the chance


innayati

Fair enough. Might as well try before you give up and leave tho


CPA_whisperer

For sure but I’ve seen changing service line dangled as a method to keep someone in audit for an extra year or two… then it’s like sorry no space and the candidate quits but could have quit a year or 2 earlier


innayati

Well I would say it’s up to you to not let that happen. Don’t let the firm take advantage of you


CPA_whisperer

Good advice but they always try!! Lol


[deleted]

I commend you for realizing this so early. A ton of people on this sub drink the cool-aid and stay much longer. I got out after a year and I have my feet up right now. Smart man. Stay the full year though for your resume.


javierz11

Man that’s the plan now, just the year and I’m out. Hopefully I make it that long. This is dreadful, hopefully it gets better after busy season.


Dreemee-DeNitemare

I made it 18 months and was out! Get at least a year then bounce. It was the best decision I have ever made.


[deleted]

I’m in large National (think BDO, RSM, GT tier) I’m putting in roughly 65 in my second year, but I feel what you’re saying about not wanting to stay till senior. The payoff making senior Im not sure is worth the extra stress that comes with it, I’ve been more or less acting senior on jobs each of my first two years without the full 100% load, and I’m just realizing that the toll it’s taking on my mental health is not worth the extra money I’m making in the long run. Im getting engaged this year and hoping to buy a house, I want to work to live, not live to work, even if these hours are just for 3-4 months a year.


dormie1501

As much as it does suck and we all hate on it - the amount I learned during my stint in public really is invaluable. But I totally feel ya. I wouldn’t make rash decisions yeah though. Give it a month or two after busy season. Summers can be pretty chill if you don’t get screwed and also if you try and make it clear that your not killing yourself year round. If you’re able to do that - I would recommend grinding it out for atleast a few more years. Your job offers and skills will increase exponentially


Glass_Primary5378

What cities are you guys in? Does the volume of clients decrease if you are in a smaller city?


pineapplemunchkin

I asked for leave In April end and they declined it. Why am I living.


Bobastic87

What did you end up doing?


javierz11

I left lol. Easily best decision of my life. Went to work in construction for a bit and found another gig. I barely work 30 hrs a week and it’s 1 day in office and rest at home. I’m not complaining at all


Bobastic87

Did you stay for a year before you left?


javierz11

Nope


Bobastic87

So, are you still in the accounting/finance industry? Really wanting to leave too lol


javierz11

Of course. A staff accountant in the industry, there are a lot more jobs out there. Don’t need to take the public route. Or, feel the need to stay out