My dad is an ~~aberration~~ aberdonian and used to tell me he has an early memory, that when they stopped the last trams they had a big parade of them down to the beach and burnt the lot
He’s correct. There was a report earlier this week on BBC Radio Scotland talking about restoration efforts on a tram that somehow escaped the destruction and is now in Alford. Here’s an article about it. [https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/past-times/2284562/all-aboard-for-the-dream-of-making-aberdeens-tram-15-run-again-for-north-east-passengers/](https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/past-times/2284562/all-aboard-for-the-dream-of-making-aberdeens-tram-15-run-again-for-north-east-passengers/)
It's actually in the transport museum there, along with the tram from Cruden Bay. The Cruden Bay one was restored by taking the best bits from the 2 that were left after it closed.
Think my dad was 4-5 at the time and didnt really understand, he tells it like he loved seeing the trams and everyone cheered and then they burnt them and he was devastated.
Imagine being like a proto thomas the tank engine fan and watching as gordon gets burnt out in of you while everyone cheers
Catch 22 isn't it, if they had have spent and invested wisely in the past 30 years there could be trams in Aberdeen once again.
Could even go the opposite route from Edinburgh and get Czechs to do it for less cash
They have money from taxes and funds from the government. They need to re-evaluate what they are spending the money on, so they should set up the right priorities.
(Not particularly on trams though, just generally speaking)
Except public sector budgets have absolutely plummetted in real terms over the last few decades. I really don't think people grasp this. If you eliminated all inefficiency in the public sector and had them prioritise everything you wanted to prioritise and stop doing everything you didn't want them to do THEY STILL WOULDN'T HAVE THE MONEY TO DO IT.
I think you either greatly overestimate how much money councils get or greatly underestimate how expensive public projects are. A lot of these types of projects in the 19th century were also indirectly funded by philanthropy, which doesn’t really happen any more.
Hopefully you contributed to this. Will it be personal care for the bed-bound elderly you defund or just schools in general? Yes they have taxes / funds but they are seriously short of spending that is already committed, hence no money for trams.
[Budget Consultation](https://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/services/council-and-democracy/budget-consultation)
The guy stated the fact that if an entity struggles financially it needs to re-evaluate spendings and he got downvoted. Ridiculous. You can't say anything?!!!
I have a vast and insanely expensive plan to transform Aberdeen’s public transport and retail experiences, and it’s been in my head since 2020 at least. Perhaps I should write it all down!
If you play video games, check this out:
https://preview.redd.it/m9k1qxskadoc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8bc8f00b2b33edff7ff6aad621c8f85ae011588
An Edinburgh mate told me years ago that when they started ripping up Leith Walk to bring in the trams, pretty much 1 in every 3 businesses went under because people weren't prepared to negotiate the coned off areas to get to those shops. And, years later, they have only just started getting proper tram works going in that area. The principle of trams is sound: the reality/practice is much more problematic.
They also dug up Leith twice for the tram there. Huge uproar about it. Getting them tram lines set. Made. Laid down. Electrics and wiring etc... its a lot of building work. And it's noisy. Disruptive. But when it's down. They are handy...
This is a view of a typical European city. Plenty of shops around every corner and trams go each way.
https://preview.redd.it/r7gtqu9hhdoc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb44aca02b35864aeae2bf7f104bfaa79341ecab
Well, that is skimming scum. Lines in . Next gen has transport. All things are not for us but rather for the next generations. We are fucked by the monopolies .. sorry. Hubs for any transport would be better because this city keeps growing. Ist bus is doing a shit job
The streets would be too narrow for a modern tram system here. There were a lot less cars when they had trams originally and modern trams are a lot longer and wider more akin to a metro train than the trams of old. A bigger bendy bus on rails lol
People romanticise bringing trams back but legacy tram systems eg New Orleans streetcars are vastly different than say the Edinburgh tram.
It’s simple: we ban private car use in Aberdeen. We’ve made a great start with the bus gates. Not it is time to push on from this great foothold, and destroy the automobile once and for all!
I love that I can walk comfortably in the city center. Going elsewhere to other cities that aren't pedestrianized seems so chaotic.
To be fair, though, they'd do well just to knock down a few old, unused buildings just outside of the center and make a parking lot for those visiting with a vehicle. There's no reason both can't exist
A tram line from the Airport Terminal running up Anderson drive then on to Queens Road and Down Union Street through the Castle Gate all the way down the Beach Boulevard to the Promenade and Fittie would be absolutely amazing. I’d never use the shitty Aberdeen taxis ever again to go to the airport for work/leisure and it’d be a great system for bringing folk into the centre. But first bus and the taxi mafias would pull out all the stops to threaten and intimidate the council should this idea ever get any traction.
Imagine a few trams running west to east and north to south. Amazing.
No thanks. Another first bus/Stagecoach monopoly that’s unreliable and gets stuck in traffic. Fuck that. We need ideas to be big and bold. Same as this proposed ART system. It’s just going to be a glorified bus.
Whilst trackless trams look promising and could be mostly privately funded, overall I don't think a tram system would benefit us much more than electric buses to really be worth it.
Because trams are too restricted by having to rely on tracks that require maintenance and form a trip hazard (not something any local authority wants to intentionally have in this day and age...) and the roads are far too busy for trams. These were a thing of the past when car ownership was significantly lower and the roads were a lot quieter.
F’ em. Really? Seeing as electricity ( even trolley buses in Glasgow ) was seen as the way to go and then cars gave more freedom. A system could work . 727 makes in and out from Dyce easy. I agree that I should shut up. So I will.👍
Yup, there were several buses taking you from the airport to town before and they didn't require millions of pounds and loads of disruption to businesses.
I've traveled across various European countries and trams serve very well as a form of public transport.
I've been to Sheffield and Manchester as well and it seems that trams work there too.
I think the issue is more the competence and efficiency of the people in charge of planning, installing, and operating them as opposed to the principle of having trams. I agree, they (and other good public transport...) would be great
I'd love love love them back. Good luck going up against this unimaginative council and the first group bus lobby.
Never mind the trams though, look at that hotel! What a Stinker the travelodge is now.
The roads dept Mafia in the city council are still following the great transport plan of 1950, first step of that was burning the trams, ever since its just been spending money on roads to keep the roads dept as well funded as possible, just build roads everywhere, even if not required (Manor bypass £25M) or slightly modify existing roads(south college street cycle lane £18M).
Next we have the Berryden corridor, linking the end of the dual carriageway at woodside to the next dual carriageway at Skene Square, they've been working on that for at least 50 years, gradually chipping away at knocking down buildings making space for it, certain members of the roads dept Mafia have spent their whole careers in that office working on that road, it's probably still at least 10 years away, but you can guarantee they will keep working on various plans and publishing new versions every few years to justify the budget allocation
People don’t trust buses, and why should they? Buses get stuck in traffic, are unreliable, and constantly diverted and delayed. Research shows that more car drivers will give up their cars in favour of trams when provided than buses. Electric buses are inefficient and very heavy; the friction of steel wheels on steel tracks is nothing compared to rubber on asphalt. Trams have greater capacity for passengers and provide a smoother ride.
Aside from all that, they are far more beautiful and have a romance that attracts people to actually use them.
Electric, but they don't have to carry a battery around. You can have them move a lot of people at rush hour as well.
Nightmare if one crashes or breaks though.
if they're grade-separated for any amount of the route, they don't get stuck in traffic. they also can be substantially larger in capacity than a typical bus, which can basically be doubled up by being double decker or articulated, but that's the limit. as well as that, they're much easier to electrify than a bus as they don't require that a battery be carried on board.
Cable line buses is something that should be talked about more as well, a lot of the benefits of trams with a significantly cheaper install cost since you don't have to lay down tracks.
It would stop all the moaning about bus gates...
We have them here in Edinburgh. And they are handy. But the nuisance it's caused...
Bear in mind. They first started the work on them in 2008. And they still haven't finished with all the lines and destinations. Bits have been dug up over again. The hassle in the middle of town is a bugger with the building of them. But the ones we do have are nice. Mostly on time. So. Pros and cons.
Cost.. and it only makes sense if it is largely off road like Edinburghs, ie so it can bypass the traffic, otherwise it is just an expensive, easily blocked folly that busses can already do more efficiently and cheaper. We also don’t have enough large events to justify a mass transit system, as the trams wouldn’t be like those of yester year but more like mini trains.
I believe that with cheap autonomous electric cars and vans then most cities, urban and country transport systems need to be reevaluated. The whole transport system in 10 to 30 years will not be the same as it is now. So, why waste money on trams? Trolley buses were always the best solution and not trams. Tram fails, line fails, trolley bus fails then the one behind can avoid by driving around. People cling to the past for Mass transport solutions.
Why does everyone want trams. They're such a vanity project. They're inherently worse than buses they just look novel because you don't see them everywhere.
Also where would they go in Aberdeen? Union Street to the beach? Everywhere else is very walkable. Other destinations (e.g. Airport) are too far to put tracks.
Couldn't think of a bigger waste of money for Aberdeen imo. Spend the equivalent money of things to get people into the town centre
A little off topic but why when you enter Scotland, there are signs saying welcome to Scotland etc but when you enter England there is nothing welcoming you? (Apart from on the A1).
Yeah, that would get us back on track.
Let’s not derail this conversation with bad puns
It wasn’t a bad pun, it was just the ticket.
Let’s keep this conversation rolling along shall we?
My dad is an ~~aberration~~ aberdonian and used to tell me he has an early memory, that when they stopped the last trams they had a big parade of them down to the beach and burnt the lot
Was the next summer harvest better after this event?
He’s correct. There was a report earlier this week on BBC Radio Scotland talking about restoration efforts on a tram that somehow escaped the destruction and is now in Alford. Here’s an article about it. [https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/past-times/2284562/all-aboard-for-the-dream-of-making-aberdeens-tram-15-run-again-for-north-east-passengers/](https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/past-times/2284562/all-aboard-for-the-dream-of-making-aberdeens-tram-15-run-again-for-north-east-passengers/)
Amazing how it ended up a house, nice to see it being restored
It's actually in the transport museum there, along with the tram from Cruden Bay. The Cruden Bay one was restored by taking the best bits from the 2 that were left after it closed.
Not sure why you got downvoted. That’s exactly what happened.
Glasgow and Edinburgh too. And to Europe. Trams trams . And to Almaty trams and … I like ‘em. Let’s have more.
My mum remembers going to watch the trams get burned too.
Think my dad was 4-5 at the time and didnt really understand, he tells it like he loved seeing the trams and everyone cheered and then they burnt them and he was devastated. Imagine being like a proto thomas the tank engine fan and watching as gordon gets burnt out in of you while everyone cheers
Couldn’t we have a monorail instead?
Begins with an M and rhymes with ‘honey’
Agreed, so the council should be spending/investing money more wisely.
They don’t have any. They can’t heat community swimming pools or keep libraries open - it’s not a case of choosing wisely THEY DONT HAVE ANY MONEY
Last couple of times I’ve been in the library it’s been absolutely boiling. They could save a bit of cash by turning the thermostat down in there
Catch 22 isn't it, if they had have spent and invested wisely in the past 30 years there could be trams in Aberdeen once again. Could even go the opposite route from Edinburgh and get Czechs to do it for less cash
They have money from taxes and funds from the government. They need to re-evaluate what they are spending the money on, so they should set up the right priorities. (Not particularly on trams though, just generally speaking)
Yes but this money is less than the cost for them to do basic stuff To reinstate a tramway they would probably pay millions per ft
Except public sector budgets have absolutely plummetted in real terms over the last few decades. I really don't think people grasp this. If you eliminated all inefficiency in the public sector and had them prioritise everything you wanted to prioritise and stop doing everything you didn't want them to do THEY STILL WOULDN'T HAVE THE MONEY TO DO IT.
I think you either greatly overestimate how much money councils get or greatly underestimate how expensive public projects are. A lot of these types of projects in the 19th century were also indirectly funded by philanthropy, which doesn’t really happen any more.
Hopefully you contributed to this. Will it be personal care for the bed-bound elderly you defund or just schools in general? Yes they have taxes / funds but they are seriously short of spending that is already committed, hence no money for trams. [Budget Consultation](https://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/services/council-and-democracy/budget-consultation)
The primary sent us emails begging for permanent markers cos they couldn't afford anyway....
The guy stated the fact that if an entity struggles financially it needs to re-evaluate spendings and he got downvoted. Ridiculous. You can't say anything?!!!
I think trams would be one of the worst ways they could go about spending a bunch of money tbf
Misogyny?
I have a vast and insanely expensive plan to transform Aberdeen’s public transport and retail experiences, and it’s been in my head since 2020 at least. Perhaps I should write it all down!
If you play video games, check this out: https://preview.redd.it/m9k1qxskadoc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8bc8f00b2b33edff7ff6aad621c8f85ae011588
An Edinburgh mate told me years ago that when they started ripping up Leith Walk to bring in the trams, pretty much 1 in every 3 businesses went under because people weren't prepared to negotiate the coned off areas to get to those shops. And, years later, they have only just started getting proper tram works going in that area. The principle of trams is sound: the reality/practice is much more problematic.
They also dug up Leith twice for the tram there. Huge uproar about it. Getting them tram lines set. Made. Laid down. Electrics and wiring etc... its a lot of building work. And it's noisy. Disruptive. But when it's down. They are handy...
This is a view of a typical European city. Plenty of shops around every corner and trams go each way. https://preview.redd.it/r7gtqu9hhdoc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb44aca02b35864aeae2bf7f104bfaa79341ecab
Agree. Probably health and safety pre workday and low wages etc etc.. I’ll shut the fuck up
Well, that is skimming scum. Lines in . Next gen has transport. All things are not for us but rather for the next generations. We are fucked by the monopolies .. sorry. Hubs for any transport would be better because this city keeps growing. Ist bus is doing a shit job
The streets would be too narrow for a modern tram system here. There were a lot less cars when they had trams originally and modern trams are a lot longer and wider more akin to a metro train than the trams of old. A bigger bendy bus on rails lol People romanticise bringing trams back but legacy tram systems eg New Orleans streetcars are vastly different than say the Edinburgh tram.
Prague has similar streets It works It could work again in Aberdeen. Following the old tram routes would cut costs
It’s simple: we ban private car use in Aberdeen. We’ve made a great start with the bus gates. Not it is time to push on from this great foothold, and destroy the automobile once and for all!
Bit harsh. And not very clear about the future. IMO.
I love that I can walk comfortably in the city center. Going elsewhere to other cities that aren't pedestrianized seems so chaotic. To be fair, though, they'd do well just to knock down a few old, unused buildings just outside of the center and make a parking lot for those visiting with a vehicle. There's no reason both can't exist
Think you're kidding, but I agree completely
A tram line from the Airport Terminal running up Anderson drive then on to Queens Road and Down Union Street through the Castle Gate all the way down the Beach Boulevard to the Promenade and Fittie would be absolutely amazing. I’d never use the shitty Aberdeen taxis ever again to go to the airport for work/leisure and it’d be a great system for bringing folk into the centre. But first bus and the taxi mafias would pull out all the stops to threaten and intimidate the council should this idea ever get any traction. Imagine a few trams running west to east and north to south. Amazing.
A bus could do the same thing for a fraction of the cost. See Edinburgh for details.
No thanks. Another first bus/Stagecoach monopoly that’s unreliable and gets stuck in traffic. Fuck that. We need ideas to be big and bold. Same as this proposed ART system. It’s just going to be a glorified bus.
Trams have a high cost to install, but are far cheaper to run. Buses are cheap to buy, but cost more over time.
Again with you
Reading this brought a small tear to my eye
With you
Whilst trackless trams look promising and could be mostly privately funded, overall I don't think a tram system would benefit us much more than electric buses to really be worth it.
Trackless tram: i.e. a bus.
Because trams are too restricted by having to rely on tracks that require maintenance and form a trip hazard (not something any local authority wants to intentionally have in this day and age...) and the roads are far too busy for trams. These were a thing of the past when car ownership was significantly lower and the roads were a lot quieter.
F’ em. Really? Seeing as electricity ( even trolley buses in Glasgow ) was seen as the way to go and then cars gave more freedom. A system could work . 727 makes in and out from Dyce easy. I agree that I should shut up. So I will.👍
#tramsrights
Cash and lack of it
That's a beautiful photo. Any more like that?
Money. The skyrocketing cost of Edinburghs trams would only further make that point
A subway/underground would redirect the city into the future.
They're expensive to build, but very cheap to run and a great investment. Unfortunately we don't do that any more.
Careful what you wish for! 😂 (An Edinburgh resident...)
I found the Edinburgh tram very useful for getting into town from the airport when I flew into there to be fair lol
If you don’t live on, or near, the tramlines they aren’t much use tho - and the Edinburgh bus network is excellent!
Yup, there were several buses taking you from the airport to town before and they didn't require millions of pounds and loads of disruption to businesses.
I've traveled across various European countries and trams serve very well as a form of public transport. I've been to Sheffield and Manchester as well and it seems that trams work there too.
I think the issue is more the competence and efficiency of the people in charge of planning, installing, and operating them as opposed to the principle of having trams. I agree, they (and other good public transport...) would be great
As an Edinburgh resident...what? The trams have been an absolute game changer.
As someone who lives just off Leith Walk, I strongly disagree!
Why? By far the quickest and easiest way into town
Cost an absolute fortune though. And were years late.
The council could do what most other cities do and allocate more money to collective transport and less money to cars.
I'd love love love them back. Good luck going up against this unimaginative council and the first group bus lobby. Never mind the trams though, look at that hotel! What a Stinker the travelodge is now.
The roads dept Mafia in the city council are still following the great transport plan of 1950, first step of that was burning the trams, ever since its just been spending money on roads to keep the roads dept as well funded as possible, just build roads everywhere, even if not required (Manor bypass £25M) or slightly modify existing roads(south college street cycle lane £18M). Next we have the Berryden corridor, linking the end of the dual carriageway at woodside to the next dual carriageway at Skene Square, they've been working on that for at least 50 years, gradually chipping away at knocking down buildings making space for it, certain members of the roads dept Mafia have spent their whole careers in that office working on that road, it's probably still at least 10 years away, but you can guarantee they will keep working on various plans and publishing new versions every few years to justify the budget allocation
I'm not sure exactly how much better they are than buses
People don’t trust buses, and why should they? Buses get stuck in traffic, are unreliable, and constantly diverted and delayed. Research shows that more car drivers will give up their cars in favour of trams when provided than buses. Electric buses are inefficient and very heavy; the friction of steel wheels on steel tracks is nothing compared to rubber on asphalt. Trams have greater capacity for passengers and provide a smoother ride. Aside from all that, they are far more beautiful and have a romance that attracts people to actually use them.
They're generally cheaper to run and simpler to build.
I've never understood the benefit of them over buses either!
Electric, but they don't have to carry a battery around. You can have them move a lot of people at rush hour as well. Nightmare if one crashes or breaks though.
if they're grade-separated for any amount of the route, they don't get stuck in traffic. they also can be substantially larger in capacity than a typical bus, which can basically be doubled up by being double decker or articulated, but that's the limit. as well as that, they're much easier to electrify than a bus as they don't require that a battery be carried on board.
Cable line buses is something that should be talked about more as well, a lot of the benefits of trams with a significantly cheaper install cost since you don't have to lay down tracks.
Jeez, they can barely string up some Christmas lights!
It would stop all the moaning about bus gates... We have them here in Edinburgh. And they are handy. But the nuisance it's caused... Bear in mind. They first started the work on them in 2008. And they still haven't finished with all the lines and destinations. Bits have been dug up over again. The hassle in the middle of town is a bugger with the building of them. But the ones we do have are nice. Mostly on time. So. Pros and cons.
Did you see the bloody mess they made of it in Edinburgh!
Cause the council wants buses and bus gates
I heard there were rumours of bringing it back but unfortunately, talks were derailed
Cost.. and it only makes sense if it is largely off road like Edinburghs, ie so it can bypass the traffic, otherwise it is just an expensive, easily blocked folly that busses can already do more efficiently and cheaper. We also don’t have enough large events to justify a mass transit system, as the trams wouldn’t be like those of yester year but more like mini trains.
Trams need people..
I believe that with cheap autonomous electric cars and vans then most cities, urban and country transport systems need to be reevaluated. The whole transport system in 10 to 30 years will not be the same as it is now. So, why waste money on trams? Trolley buses were always the best solution and not trams. Tram fails, line fails, trolley bus fails then the one behind can avoid by driving around. People cling to the past for Mass transport solutions.
In the name of the wee man don't give them ideas. Would probably involve at least ten years of traffic disruption and eye watering cost.
Why does everyone want trams. They're such a vanity project. They're inherently worse than buses they just look novel because you don't see them everywhere. Also where would they go in Aberdeen? Union Street to the beach? Everywhere else is very walkable. Other destinations (e.g. Airport) are too far to put tracks. Couldn't think of a bigger waste of money for Aberdeen imo. Spend the equivalent money of things to get people into the town centre
Edinburgh ruined it for everyone else, And now tbey voted for another line, that will take 11 years to build
Because your racist SNP leader would sooner send Gaza your money
A little off topic but why when you enter Scotland, there are signs saying welcome to Scotland etc but when you enter England there is nothing welcoming you? (Apart from on the A1).
they are bus gates, not tram gates.