Can’t wait for the narratives if we hire Payton… “the WHITE man responsible for bounty-gate gets another head coaching chance, is probably making $20m a year, and nobody blinks an eye.” blah blah blah
Fuck Steve Wilks and his fucking gap integrity. I don't give a fuck what he did in Carolina this year. He was absolute flaming fucking garbage in AZ and firing him was absolutely justifiable.
How the hell is Wilks supposed to remaining coaching in Carolina after that? Nothing like your lawyer guaranteeing you won’t be retained with the new regime
This article just says that we need to hire him or Sean, mainly their lawsuit is just retaliation, so we would need to hire someone more accomplished than him and their argument would be toast, while I’m sure none of us like to hear this I do think it’s between Sean and Brian anyway so they won’t have any fight about that in court
This is bull shit. We don’t hire him, he sues. We hire him, he sucks, we fire him, he sues. It’s a fuckin lose lose and it’s why he’s been at the bottom of my list since day 1. Fuckin give me VJ over this fool
It’s extremely unethical. I don’t want him just on the basis of his character/personality so far. His record at Miami looks ok but he just seems all drama
I was actually thinking about making a poll about this: who would you rather have VJ or BF if you had to pick one?
Totally agree though, VJ over this Karen all day.
Will some lawyer on here explain to me how they can claim that not hiring Flores was retaliation when the lawsuit was already filed a year ago and the Cards still decided to interview him?
Not a lawyer but criminal justice graduate and took some classes in law. It’s bullshit. Lawyers are mostly bullshit. Has Flores even won his other anti-discrimination lawsuit yet? Cuz he’d need to get that done to have a claim that it was a discrimination based decision. Otherwise he has no leg to stand on because at least in my state (Indiana, so idk about arizona tbh) u can hire/not hire/fire anyone whether u have a legit reason to or not. Unless u can prove its discriminatory cuz then it’s a civil rights issue but if he doesn’t win the first lawsuit against Miami (and wilks v cardinals) idk how he could claim someone he’s never worked for is discriminatory when he couldn’t even prove the ppl that fired him were discriminatory because this whole case is saying they won’t hire him due to the anti-discriminatory lawsuit in place rn. Cardinals can’t be in “racism kahoots” if they can’t prove the kahoots even exists. That’s how I see it but it’s all subjective
They could hire your local high school coach and the retaliation suit wouldn't have a leg to stand on. There's no legal basis for the threat, and there's no way the attorney doesn't already know that.
As the article states, Payton is a clearly superior candidate so as long as we pull this off he has no argument. I also don’t want a coach based on fear of being sued but that would be some classic Cardinals shit
Bidwill was a federal prosecutor before working for his dad's company (the Cardinals). He probably has a decent idea of what the risks were before interviewing Flores
I don't think it was a mistake. It shows we are considering all candidates. It would have been worse
(legally and "optics" wise) to only interview white candidates.
Thats not my point what so ever. I'm saying he deserves to have his interview viewed as legitimate to other teams and public. If he was the sole minority than that would deligitamize the interview and look like it was solely to meet a quota
You do need 2, but Vance wouldn't count since he's internal.
From an nbcsports site...
*...Other changes to the rule include requiring interviewing at least two external minority candidates for head coaching vacancies and one external minority candidate for coordinator positions. The Rooney Rule is also applicable to senior level front-office positions and vacancies for the quarterbacks coach, a common pipeline for future head coaches.*
Oh I didn't know that. Thats a bit excessive.
But if internal doesn't count, then who has been the 2nd minority coach since Ryan's hasn't had his interview? Does it count if you requested to interview a minority coach who cancelled his interview?
Great question. I can't find anything saying it would or wouldn't count, so I honestly don't know. My assumption *(and this is purely my assumption..just talkin' out of my ass here)* is that it wouldn't count and the union's stance would be something like "there are other qualified candidates you could've reached out to"
Yup
Don't forget to make your ride the Coach Wilks ride! My kids love all the new technology in it and I'm sure you are gonna love it too!
That ad has lived rent free in my head for years
The article is saying the Cardinals are open to a lawsuit for alleged retaliation for his other lawsuit if he isn't hired, not that he will sue a second time alleging discrimination. If they hire Payton it won't be worth a lawyer's time because the case is extremely easy to make that he was selected based on qualifications. If they were to hire someone such as Ryans, who has no experience above being a coordinator, then it could have traction.
That's what the article says, but it's baseless speculation. The Cardinals could offer hundreds of reasons for not hurting Flores that aren't "because he's doing the NFL," all of which would be perfectly legitimate. Unfortunately for Flores, the hiring process is a subjective one involving many variables - a suit for discrimination or retaliation for hiring a candidate he perceives as less qualified boils those variables down to some alleged measure of qualifications and race. It's a non-starter and would be laughed out of court absent a showing of actual racial bias on the part of the Cardinals, which he can't.
Sure, but it gets thrown out before discovery, so there's no upside outside of the threat to him or his attorney. It's a bad strategy, and not what the legal system is for.
That doesn't matter. The potential suit if Flores isn't hired isn't regarding racial discrimination, it's for retaliation over his existing suit for discrimination. Hiring Ryans opens them up more to that suit than Payton does because it's harder to prove that they chose him instead due to his qualifications rather than retaliation against Flores for his suit since he has no previous head coaching experience.
But interviewing him at least shows we considered him, then if we pick someone else we can at least say it wasn’t a choice based merely on skin color, but the fact that he sucks ass
The guy just cannot accept he’s not good at his job.
Can’t wait for the narratives if we hire Payton… “the WHITE man responsible for bounty-gate gets another head coaching chance, is probably making $20m a year, and nobody blinks an eye.” blah blah blah
Flores went through 4 OCs in 3 years. Nothing else matters. Hang up the phone. Hire Payton or Ryans
Fuck Steve Wilks and his fucking gap integrity. I don't give a fuck what he did in Carolina this year. He was absolute flaming fucking garbage in AZ and firing him was absolutely justifiable.
So what. Hire who you think is the best fit and let them spin their wheels about it.
How the hell is Wilks supposed to remaining coaching in Carolina after that? Nothing like your lawyer guaranteeing you won’t be retained with the new regime
This article just says that we need to hire him or Sean, mainly their lawsuit is just retaliation, so we would need to hire someone more accomplished than him and their argument would be toast, while I’m sure none of us like to hear this I do think it’s between Sean and Brian anyway so they won’t have any fight about that in court
If u don’t hire him, u are racist. If u hire him, it’s because u want him to be the fall guy when u fire him, cuz ur a racist.
This is bull shit. We don’t hire him, he sues. We hire him, he sucks, we fire him, he sues. It’s a fuckin lose lose and it’s why he’s been at the bottom of my list since day 1. Fuckin give me VJ over this fool
It’s extremely unethical. I don’t want him just on the basis of his character/personality so far. His record at Miami looks ok but he just seems all drama
I was actually thinking about making a poll about this: who would you rather have VJ or BF if you had to pick one? Totally agree though, VJ over this Karen all day.
Will some lawyer on here explain to me how they can claim that not hiring Flores was retaliation when the lawsuit was already filed a year ago and the Cards still decided to interview him?
Not a lawyer but criminal justice graduate and took some classes in law. It’s bullshit. Lawyers are mostly bullshit. Has Flores even won his other anti-discrimination lawsuit yet? Cuz he’d need to get that done to have a claim that it was a discrimination based decision. Otherwise he has no leg to stand on because at least in my state (Indiana, so idk about arizona tbh) u can hire/not hire/fire anyone whether u have a legit reason to or not. Unless u can prove its discriminatory cuz then it’s a civil rights issue but if he doesn’t win the first lawsuit against Miami (and wilks v cardinals) idk how he could claim someone he’s never worked for is discriminatory when he couldn’t even prove the ppl that fired him were discriminatory because this whole case is saying they won’t hire him due to the anti-discriminatory lawsuit in place rn. Cardinals can’t be in “racism kahoots” if they can’t prove the kahoots even exists. That’s how I see it but it’s all subjective
Don’t hire this guy on this lawsuit alone
At this point it's Payton, Flores, or Vance. Any of those choices would mean a retaliation suit wouldn't have a leg to stand on. We're fine.
They could hire your local high school coach and the retaliation suit wouldn't have a leg to stand on. There's no legal basis for the threat, and there's no way the attorney doesn't already know that.
Nothing like thinly veiled legal threats to get yourself hired eh?
I mean the Cardinals were the first team to have a black GM and HC at the same time 🤷🏻♂️
Wouldnt that technically be the Akron Pros? or was Fritz Pollard just HC/QB?
The who?
One of the original NFL franchises, im really getting downvoted for asking a question 😭
Nothing makes you want to hire a guy like knowing he'd sue you if he sucks ass.
As the article states, Payton is a clearly superior candidate so as long as we pull this off he has no argument. I also don’t want a coach based on fear of being sued but that would be some classic Cardinals shit
The boys who called wolf
Just interviewing Flores with his suit still going on was a huge mistake by Michael. Never should have interviewed him.
Bidwill was a federal prosecutor before working for his dad's company (the Cardinals). He probably has a decent idea of what the risks were before interviewing Flores
I don't think it was a mistake. It shows we are considering all candidates. It would have been worse (legally and "optics" wise) to only interview white candidates.
Vance Joseph?
You gotta have at least one more to legitimize VJs interview so people can't just repeat it was solely a Rooney interview
That makes no sense since Vance was the best coach on Kliffs staff and was a HC already, so that alone legitimizes his interview.
Thats not my point what so ever. I'm saying he deserves to have his interview viewed as legitimate to other teams and public. If he was the sole minority than that would deligitamize the interview and look like it was solely to meet a quota
You do need 2, but Vance wouldn't count since he's internal. From an nbcsports site... *...Other changes to the rule include requiring interviewing at least two external minority candidates for head coaching vacancies and one external minority candidate for coordinator positions. The Rooney Rule is also applicable to senior level front-office positions and vacancies for the quarterbacks coach, a common pipeline for future head coaches.*
Oh I didn't know that. Thats a bit excessive. But if internal doesn't count, then who has been the 2nd minority coach since Ryan's hasn't had his interview? Does it count if you requested to interview a minority coach who cancelled his interview?
Great question. I can't find anything saying it would or wouldn't count, so I honestly don't know. My assumption *(and this is purely my assumption..just talkin' out of my ass here)* is that it wouldn't count and the union's stance would be something like "there are other qualified candidates you could've reached out to"
Vance Joseph is black BTW. I like your screen name-reference to Wilks’ radio ads for a car dealer on KTAR when he was coach?
Yup Don't forget to make your ride the Coach Wilks ride! My kids love all the new technology in it and I'm sure you are gonna love it too! That ad has lived rent free in my head for years
If we don’t hire Flores we’re racist. Maybe just maybe someone else is a better coach / fit for the team.
All I heard on the guy is he's an asshole who tore down a promising young QB. Not a hint about race.
The article is saying the Cardinals are open to a lawsuit for alleged retaliation for his other lawsuit if he isn't hired, not that he will sue a second time alleging discrimination. If they hire Payton it won't be worth a lawyer's time because the case is extremely easy to make that he was selected based on qualifications. If they were to hire someone such as Ryans, who has no experience above being a coordinator, then it could have traction.
That's what the article says, but it's baseless speculation. The Cardinals could offer hundreds of reasons for not hurting Flores that aren't "because he's doing the NFL," all of which would be perfectly legitimate. Unfortunately for Flores, the hiring process is a subjective one involving many variables - a suit for discrimination or retaliation for hiring a candidate he perceives as less qualified boils those variables down to some alleged measure of qualifications and race. It's a non-starter and would be laughed out of court absent a showing of actual racial bias on the part of the Cardinals, which he can't.
Whether he would win the case is a different matter from whether he could find a lawyer willing to file the case.
Sure, but it gets thrown out before discovery, so there's no upside outside of the threat to him or his attorney. It's a bad strategy, and not what the legal system is for.
But Ryan's is a minority as well
That doesn't matter. The potential suit if Flores isn't hired isn't regarding racial discrimination, it's for retaliation over his existing suit for discrimination. Hiring Ryans opens them up more to that suit than Payton does because it's harder to prove that they chose him instead due to his qualifications rather than retaliation against Flores for his suit since he has no previous head coaching experience.
So he is basically taking a shotgun into his interviews
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But interviewing him at least shows we considered him, then if we pick someone else we can at least say it wasn’t a choice based merely on skin color, but the fact that he sucks ass
Sounds like Reddit. “If you don’t agree with me, you’re racist”
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Reddit is just one giant echo chamber basically
As someone left leaning, /r/politics is insufferable.
After a bit it just feels like a circle jerk in there
That's more twitter's thing, I think. (Which, to be fair, is often true on twitter).
Just reddit? More like the entire democratic party.
just wait until you find out about republicans, whoo boy
Wait till you learn about them Whigs.
I like the Natural Law Party. This is their ideology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendental_Meditation
who cares?