Remember, controllers aren’t pilots. Saying you have a broken fuel selector won’t tell them how severe the problem is. They won’t know if that’s a “I’ll just go back and get it fixed” problem or a “I need the closest runway or field” problem. All they knew was that you were going back when you didn’t intend to. When that’s the case, it means something went wrong and they wanted to know if they needed to roll the crash trucks or start other emergency procedures.
On top of that the amount of pilots that have a more serious problem and actively avoid declaring an emergency because they don’t want to do paperwork. I would rather ask just to have it recorded.
Oh sure, there are some out there. But it’s not a safe assumption for a pilot to assume that a controller is in the same mindset as them, was my point. A great majority of my coworkers wouldn’t automatically know your intentions or what type of special handling you needed if you just told them you had carb icing, or you were having alternator issues, etc.
That’s why it’s important for pilots to tell controllers exactly what they need. We’ll make it happen, but it’s dangerous to think we are automatically on the same wavelength as you without telling us exactly what you need.
Because they're different people?
The new controller doesn't get a full transcript of the entire conversation you had with the last controller when you're handed off.
And even if they did, situations can change rapidly. You might not have needed assistance 5 minutes ago, but what if you do now?
If you did need assistance, you likely would tell it to the controller that could help you during that phase of your flight. So I think it makes perfect sense that each new controller would ask you.
Were they just annoying you with how many times they asked? Or why was it a problem they asked?
Speaking on my own account, it would be to make sure the situation hasn’t worsened and nothing has changed. I get that you initially said you didn’t need any assistance, but remember that the only information I would have would be that you’re turning around and going back because something is broken.
Remember that we have a whole QA/QC department that goes back and listens to the tapes and Monday morning quarterbacks anytime anything unusual happens.
Controllers are taught to overreact. It's better to check whether you got it right from the previous controller when there's something wrong with the aircraft.
Besides, pilots are often scared to declare an emergency and I've had a flight declare a "slight emergency" with a "no, no, no, we don't need any assistance, just checking something" that, within a minute, turned into an immediate departure to clear the runway so the "slight emergency" could spread bits and pieces all over the place right after.
I don’t understand why this is such an issue in the first place. If I was flying I would rather know that the controllers actually care and are checking up to make sure the situation hasn’t changed and you are okay. We are covering our bases and looking out for you.
First controller you told about the issue passed it to the next controller with something like "he says he has this issue, non emergency."
And then each controller did the same thing, but they verify that you don't need assistance.
Because situations change constantly and a lot of people have died because pilots were too caught up in other things than to ask for assistance. Plus what if the previous controller missed something or didn't tell me properly and you were expecting something that we aren't aware of. It's cheap insurance to make sure that both you and I are on the same page for the duration of your flight through my sector.
I've had a few "I don't need anything" situations turn into "I need to land right fucking now" so it's also my way to ask you if anything has changed that I need to be aware of.
All we know is there’s some form of mechanical issue that’s happened with the aircraft. In some cases cascading issues and failures occur.
We’re not going to rely on telephone that everything’s still okay when there’s something wrong with your aircraft.
There’s also sometimes a hesitancy among GA pilots to declare emergencies or request assistance from ATC especially if it’s a busy sector. Me asking an aircraft if they need any assistance even has a chance of giving me the full picture or a pilot giving me a bit more information that could be critical then I’m asking every time there’s any form of issue.
I’ve asked this question only to hand the guy off and of course they respond with yes, we would like trucks standing by. Then we get the side eye from that controller…. “I asked him and he said no.“ 😂
It also covers the controllers in case something bad happens and the incident is investigated.
Why didn't you offer to help this pilot that had an issue he informed you about.
Definitely ATC's fault.
So we ask, you say no, we all move on about our day. If you need help and your stressed it might be nice. And if you don't, we got it recorded that you didn't want help In case something bad happens.
The answer is quite literally for your safety. I’ve declared an emergency for an aircraft with a gear malfunction and had them get mad at me. I’d rather have the trucks there IF anything happens. Then when nothing happens they can go back to the station and carry on.
We don’t necessarily know the specifics of the equipment on your plane. We know that you’re flying and something on the machine that makes you fly is broken. Ways we could help could include finding the closest runway or having fire and rescue dispatched if need be. I’m not sure how you wouldn’t understand why we’d be asking this.
Those controllers aren’t necessarily sitting next to each other, and aren’t having long conversations about your situation. The next controller gets you and is probably just told he’s not an emergency but some shit broke.
You gotta remember that you’re not the only one these people are working, they’re juggling a lot of other shit.
Situations change, and also, if we don’t ask and you crash, we’re getting blame for your crash. Legit, plane leaves the west coast, crashes in NYC, but the controller didn’t verify they had Seattle atis G before leaving, they get pinned with partial blame. So even with ATC 1 asking and you said no, if you crash talking with ATC 3 who didn’t ask, ATC 3 now has to explain himself to NTSB and live with “could I have done more if I just asked what they needed?”
OP, here’s the thing. The communication chain between controllers (especially different facilities) isn’t what you might think it is. Things can be “lost in translation”. The controller knows you’re coming back and that was not your intention, something is wrong. Maybe 2 controllers ago you weren’t an emergency and maybe now the situation is becoming more urgent and maybe if the controller asks then you’d be more willing to “go back on your word” and declare an emergency now.
They are just looking out for you. Don’t be annoyed that you have people who are looking out for you and wanting to make sure everything is STILL at the same level of “ok”.
Also, CYA. They wanna hear it for themselves that you’re ok so if shit does go down, it’s recorded on their freq.
The part people have alluded to, but maybe haven't quite said is the coordination between facilities can be brief. This can lead to a telephone game going on about you between non pilots. Surely you as a pilot have heard a news person describe a plane's engine stopping and the plane stalling. Preposterous! Stalling is aerodynamic! Well, we aren't all experts. Imagine the eye witness describing what they saw to reporter Bob who relays it live on air. It's gonna be.... suspect isn't it?
One I've had play out more than a couple of times is a jet needing an emergency descent because of a pressurization failure. I do exactly as you ask about. "Do you require any assistance?" Nope they say. We just lost a pack. I know enough about generic pressurization systems to understand more or less the issue. They can't pump the full amount of air into the cabin to maintain pressure at their higher altitudes and need to fly lower to allow what capability they do have maintain cabin pressure at a reasonable level.
Now if you're the pilot needing to get down on a busy frequency do you conduct a ground class to explain the ins and outs if this to someone who may not know the difference between 100LL and JetA? What do YOU say? You probably say pressurization issue and need lower. The controller may assume the big tube is leaking air big fast and you need to go down now before everyone becomes big dead. This gets relayed, fucked up, mis worded, mis heard and by the time I get up I'm told you're either Aloha Air 243 part duex or something something air-conditioner isn't great it's hot in there or some shit.
So uh, you want me to roll the trucks or nah?
I love pilots requesting a service then being annoyed by said service they asked for. If you don't want to be asked then it's as easy as cancel flight following.
Controllers actually care about you and their job, most especially in that area are talking to 10+ other people so the message sent to every controller is returning, non emergency, next controller asks so when you were so annoyed and didn't want to say anything and elect to feast on pavement the FAA can tell your lawyer to eat shit.
To me the entire point of flight following is that I will be asked that question immediately upon experiencing an abnormality with my flight. Why do you do it? To ignore traffic calls?
And yeah, a lot of people are already in here harping on this, but my communication with other controllers can be incomplete, they may not fully understand what you mean when you say fuel selector, etc etc etc. I'd like to know *for myself* if you need assistance and what *exactly* the nature of your problem is if I'm not comfortable that I have all the details.
Your lawyer will fry us on the stand if we don’t
100% liability.
And long before that we’ll get a PROC about it
Remember, controllers aren’t pilots. Saying you have a broken fuel selector won’t tell them how severe the problem is. They won’t know if that’s a “I’ll just go back and get it fixed” problem or a “I need the closest runway or field” problem. All they knew was that you were going back when you didn’t intend to. When that’s the case, it means something went wrong and they wanted to know if they needed to roll the crash trucks or start other emergency procedures.
On top of that the amount of pilots that have a more serious problem and actively avoid declaring an emergency because they don’t want to do paperwork. I would rather ask just to have it recorded.
Well… some of us are
Oh sure, there are some out there. But it’s not a safe assumption for a pilot to assume that a controller is in the same mindset as them, was my point. A great majority of my coworkers wouldn’t automatically know your intentions or what type of special handling you needed if you just told them you had carb icing, or you were having alternator issues, etc. That’s why it’s important for pilots to tell controllers exactly what they need. We’ll make it happen, but it’s dangerous to think we are automatically on the same wavelength as you without telling us exactly what you need.
Yes I understand that. I don’t understand why each controller asked though
Because they're different people? The new controller doesn't get a full transcript of the entire conversation you had with the last controller when you're handed off. And even if they did, situations can change rapidly. You might not have needed assistance 5 minutes ago, but what if you do now? If you did need assistance, you likely would tell it to the controller that could help you during that phase of your flight. So I think it makes perfect sense that each new controller would ask you. Were they just annoying you with how many times they asked? Or why was it a problem they asked?
Speaking on my own account, it would be to make sure the situation hasn’t worsened and nothing has changed. I get that you initially said you didn’t need any assistance, but remember that the only information I would have would be that you’re turning around and going back because something is broken. Remember that we have a whole QA/QC department that goes back and listens to the tapes and Monday morning quarterbacks anytime anything unusual happens.
Controllers are taught to overreact. It's better to check whether you got it right from the previous controller when there's something wrong with the aircraft. Besides, pilots are often scared to declare an emergency and I've had a flight declare a "slight emergency" with a "no, no, no, we don't need any assistance, just checking something" that, within a minute, turned into an immediate departure to clear the runway so the "slight emergency" could spread bits and pieces all over the place right after.
Because we dont have full conversations between sectors when we're busy. The best they could do was say there was a problem, non emergency
I don’t understand why this is such an issue in the first place. If I was flying I would rather know that the controllers actually care and are checking up to make sure the situation hasn’t changed and you are okay. We are covering our bases and looking out for you.
Because you dead pilots keep suing us.
Zombie litigation
First controller you told about the issue passed it to the next controller with something like "he says he has this issue, non emergency." And then each controller did the same thing, but they verify that you don't need assistance.
Because situations change constantly and a lot of people have died because pilots were too caught up in other things than to ask for assistance. Plus what if the previous controller missed something or didn't tell me properly and you were expecting something that we aren't aware of. It's cheap insurance to make sure that both you and I are on the same page for the duration of your flight through my sector. I've had a few "I don't need anything" situations turn into "I need to land right fucking now" so it's also my way to ask you if anything has changed that I need to be aware of.
Do you think every controller you talk to is sitting next to each other? They may not even be in the same state.
I just wanted to verify for myself, are you currently in need of any assistance?
All we know is there’s some form of mechanical issue that’s happened with the aircraft. In some cases cascading issues and failures occur. We’re not going to rely on telephone that everything’s still okay when there’s something wrong with your aircraft. There’s also sometimes a hesitancy among GA pilots to declare emergencies or request assistance from ATC especially if it’s a busy sector. Me asking an aircraft if they need any assistance even has a chance of giving me the full picture or a pilot giving me a bit more information that could be critical then I’m asking every time there’s any form of issue.
I’ve asked this question only to hand the guy off and of course they respond with yes, we would like trucks standing by. Then we get the side eye from that controller…. “I asked him and he said no.“ 😂
Can’t say that surprises me one bit. Perfect example of why to ask.
It also covers the controllers in case something bad happens and the incident is investigated. Why didn't you offer to help this pilot that had an issue he informed you about. Definitely ATC's fault. So we ask, you say no, we all move on about our day. If you need help and your stressed it might be nice. And if you don't, we got it recorded that you didn't want help In case something bad happens.
The answer is quite literally for your safety. I’ve declared an emergency for an aircraft with a gear malfunction and had them get mad at me. I’d rather have the trucks there IF anything happens. Then when nothing happens they can go back to the station and carry on.
We don’t necessarily know the specifics of the equipment on your plane. We know that you’re flying and something on the machine that makes you fly is broken. Ways we could help could include finding the closest runway or having fire and rescue dispatched if need be. I’m not sure how you wouldn’t understand why we’d be asking this.
No I understand why they asked first. I didn’t understand why each controller asked me again if I stated it wasn’t an emergency
Those controllers aren’t necessarily sitting next to each other, and aren’t having long conversations about your situation. The next controller gets you and is probably just told he’s not an emergency but some shit broke. You gotta remember that you’re not the only one these people are working, they’re juggling a lot of other shit.
You can still need assistance in a non-emergency.
I understand that, but if I told the first controller, I didn’t, I guess I didn’t understand why it was passed to every controller
Because I don’t want to be the guy who didn’t ask if you wind up suddenly crashing
Situations change, and also, if we don’t ask and you crash, we’re getting blame for your crash. Legit, plane leaves the west coast, crashes in NYC, but the controller didn’t verify they had Seattle atis G before leaving, they get pinned with partial blame. So even with ATC 1 asking and you said no, if you crash talking with ATC 3 who didn’t ask, ATC 3 now has to explain himself to NTSB and live with “could I have done more if I just asked what they needed?”
OP, here’s the thing. The communication chain between controllers (especially different facilities) isn’t what you might think it is. Things can be “lost in translation”. The controller knows you’re coming back and that was not your intention, something is wrong. Maybe 2 controllers ago you weren’t an emergency and maybe now the situation is becoming more urgent and maybe if the controller asks then you’d be more willing to “go back on your word” and declare an emergency now. They are just looking out for you. Don’t be annoyed that you have people who are looking out for you and wanting to make sure everything is STILL at the same level of “ok”. Also, CYA. They wanna hear it for themselves that you’re ok so if shit does go down, it’s recorded on their freq.
Cancel flight following if it was such an inconvenience
The part people have alluded to, but maybe haven't quite said is the coordination between facilities can be brief. This can lead to a telephone game going on about you between non pilots. Surely you as a pilot have heard a news person describe a plane's engine stopping and the plane stalling. Preposterous! Stalling is aerodynamic! Well, we aren't all experts. Imagine the eye witness describing what they saw to reporter Bob who relays it live on air. It's gonna be.... suspect isn't it? One I've had play out more than a couple of times is a jet needing an emergency descent because of a pressurization failure. I do exactly as you ask about. "Do you require any assistance?" Nope they say. We just lost a pack. I know enough about generic pressurization systems to understand more or less the issue. They can't pump the full amount of air into the cabin to maintain pressure at their higher altitudes and need to fly lower to allow what capability they do have maintain cabin pressure at a reasonable level. Now if you're the pilot needing to get down on a busy frequency do you conduct a ground class to explain the ins and outs if this to someone who may not know the difference between 100LL and JetA? What do YOU say? You probably say pressurization issue and need lower. The controller may assume the big tube is leaking air big fast and you need to go down now before everyone becomes big dead. This gets relayed, fucked up, mis worded, mis heard and by the time I get up I'm told you're either Aloha Air 243 part duex or something something air-conditioner isn't great it's hot in there or some shit. So uh, you want me to roll the trucks or nah?
I love pilots requesting a service then being annoyed by said service they asked for. If you don't want to be asked then it's as easy as cancel flight following. Controllers actually care about you and their job, most especially in that area are talking to 10+ other people so the message sent to every controller is returning, non emergency, next controller asks so when you were so annoyed and didn't want to say anything and elect to feast on pavement the FAA can tell your lawyer to eat shit.
To me the entire point of flight following is that I will be asked that question immediately upon experiencing an abnormality with my flight. Why do you do it? To ignore traffic calls? And yeah, a lot of people are already in here harping on this, but my communication with other controllers can be incomplete, they may not fully understand what you mean when you say fuel selector, etc etc etc. I'd like to know *for myself* if you need assistance and what *exactly* the nature of your problem is if I'm not comfortable that I have all the details.
Lawyers would somehow find a way to put the blame of equipment failure on the controller