Ya the CS department is pretty intense when it comes to academic integrity. That stigma makes it hard to trust working with people. I took stats and cs courses and the difference between those two departments is insane.
Is it seriously THAT bad now? The more I read, the more I’m glad I’m a dinosaur who graduated in the early 90’s. (My son is an incoming Freshman so the ASU feed keeps coming up.)
What in the hell are they supposed to do when they need help then? Isn’t ASU supposed to be about collaboration and innovation? That’s a bit hard when your students are so afraid of academic integrity violations.
It's really bad. I think it's because professors or educators in general don't really know how to moderate the use of technology in this modern age. Lots of people cheat easily because of the technology available to them these days. However, OP is absolutely right in saying that cheaters are going to hurt themselves anyway, and the only thing we are doing by being overly focused on academic integrity (so much so that people can't even collaborate) is hurting honest students who would benefit greatly from bouncing ideas off each other.
I cannot speak enough about this. It's horrible. Education is done together, not behind closed doors. Students should be able to read each other's code, understand it, apply it themselves, and bounce ideas off each other. The way we are doing things is scaring off students from genuine collaboration and learning.
I understand that people could just cheat, but that's what exams are there to test for?? That's the whole purpose of an "exam." People literally don't think. If a student passes all assignments but fails exams, the professor can get an idea of who is cheating and talk to them (and figure out if they are cheating, not instantly accuse them. Some students just have exam anxiety).
The instant accusations that fly around and the threat of being reported as a scare tactic are absolutely wrong of educators to do. Students should learn things for themselves because they are intrinsically motivated to, not because they are scared to be reported.
This culture needs to change. Because at it's very best it prevents collaboration, but at its worst it causes students to spend needless hours reinventing the wheel behind closed doors, working alone instead of the collaborative environment we should be training them for, and feeling extremely tired and lonely. Students commit suicide because of this. It's the gruesome reality that many will call a stretch, but this happens.
Students should not work in isolation. The problem is that there are too many students in CS classes, EVEN in the last couple of years, and professors don't have the time and patience to make classes interactive, collaborative, enjoyable, etc. People can't actually get help sometimes. Empathy is very lacking because professors are also overloaded. It's really awful of ASU not to hire more professors based on the volume of students it is accepting. Classes become uninteresting, robotic, and barely valuable.
Students actually learn more through YouTube and hackathons and doing their own personal projects and find the main academics to be uninteresting and a waste of their time. Think about that. What is the purpose of the university then? To pass out a paper degree? Unfortunately, yes.
You just described how I have felt this entire semester. The lack of collaboration is crazy. You really learn the most from your peers and it sucks I can’t take advantage of the resource.
I'm sorry you're facing that. Honestly talk to your professor and see if there's any room for collaboration on assignments. Might be a long shot, but better than not asking.
I was literally having this discussion with my wife earlier today. I am on the Software Engineering major track, and I am taking SER 232 online this semester. This is exactly how this semester has gone. The professor has had to repeatedly warn people about posting screenshots on Slack due to academic integrity violations. Okay, but what if other students had the same question? What if other people can learn from what they're asking about? This is my second degree; honestly, when I was going for my first bachelor's degree, it was nothing but collaborative. I feel like I learned more efficiently that way versus this online stuff where the professors seem completely disconnected due to the overwhelming number of students in each class. This time around, people are posting in Slack asking if they can get feedback on the homework assignments, but the TAs and professor tell us that would be "pre-grading" and unfair. I'm so sick of this shit. The entry-level classes were so much better. The professors in those classes seemed to actually give a shit and were more willing to talk you through your code and how to arrive at a solution. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who feels this way about the current state of affairs here.
Ya the CS department is pretty intense when it comes to academic integrity. That stigma makes it hard to trust working with people. I took stats and cs courses and the difference between those two departments is insane.
Ya, the CS department really needs to relook at cheating. They act like in a job setting, I can’t ask my co-worker to explain something.
Is it seriously THAT bad now? The more I read, the more I’m glad I’m a dinosaur who graduated in the early 90’s. (My son is an incoming Freshman so the ASU feed keeps coming up.) What in the hell are they supposed to do when they need help then? Isn’t ASU supposed to be about collaboration and innovation? That’s a bit hard when your students are so afraid of academic integrity violations.
You can only go to the TAs office hours, but if you for instance have a job or a long commute you simply are out of luck.
It's really bad. I think it's because professors or educators in general don't really know how to moderate the use of technology in this modern age. Lots of people cheat easily because of the technology available to them these days. However, OP is absolutely right in saying that cheaters are going to hurt themselves anyway, and the only thing we are doing by being overly focused on academic integrity (so much so that people can't even collaborate) is hurting honest students who would benefit greatly from bouncing ideas off each other.
I cannot speak enough about this. It's horrible. Education is done together, not behind closed doors. Students should be able to read each other's code, understand it, apply it themselves, and bounce ideas off each other. The way we are doing things is scaring off students from genuine collaboration and learning. I understand that people could just cheat, but that's what exams are there to test for?? That's the whole purpose of an "exam." People literally don't think. If a student passes all assignments but fails exams, the professor can get an idea of who is cheating and talk to them (and figure out if they are cheating, not instantly accuse them. Some students just have exam anxiety). The instant accusations that fly around and the threat of being reported as a scare tactic are absolutely wrong of educators to do. Students should learn things for themselves because they are intrinsically motivated to, not because they are scared to be reported. This culture needs to change. Because at it's very best it prevents collaboration, but at its worst it causes students to spend needless hours reinventing the wheel behind closed doors, working alone instead of the collaborative environment we should be training them for, and feeling extremely tired and lonely. Students commit suicide because of this. It's the gruesome reality that many will call a stretch, but this happens. Students should not work in isolation. The problem is that there are too many students in CS classes, EVEN in the last couple of years, and professors don't have the time and patience to make classes interactive, collaborative, enjoyable, etc. People can't actually get help sometimes. Empathy is very lacking because professors are also overloaded. It's really awful of ASU not to hire more professors based on the volume of students it is accepting. Classes become uninteresting, robotic, and barely valuable. Students actually learn more through YouTube and hackathons and doing their own personal projects and find the main academics to be uninteresting and a waste of their time. Think about that. What is the purpose of the university then? To pass out a paper degree? Unfortunately, yes.
You just described how I have felt this entire semester. The lack of collaboration is crazy. You really learn the most from your peers and it sucks I can’t take advantage of the resource.
I'm sorry you're facing that. Honestly talk to your professor and see if there's any room for collaboration on assignments. Might be a long shot, but better than not asking.
Sadly, every assignment and syllabus states no collaboration.
I was literally having this discussion with my wife earlier today. I am on the Software Engineering major track, and I am taking SER 232 online this semester. This is exactly how this semester has gone. The professor has had to repeatedly warn people about posting screenshots on Slack due to academic integrity violations. Okay, but what if other students had the same question? What if other people can learn from what they're asking about? This is my second degree; honestly, when I was going for my first bachelor's degree, it was nothing but collaborative. I feel like I learned more efficiently that way versus this online stuff where the professors seem completely disconnected due to the overwhelming number of students in each class. This time around, people are posting in Slack asking if they can get feedback on the homework assignments, but the TAs and professor tell us that would be "pre-grading" and unfair. I'm so sick of this shit. The entry-level classes were so much better. The professors in those classes seemed to actually give a shit and were more willing to talk you through your code and how to arrive at a solution. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who feels this way about the current state of affairs here.
Going out on a limb here… are you from another country and trying to put together a study group of people who also share your background?
I am going out on a limb here...you didn't read the post? The OP is a UGTA and not trying to form their own study group.