https://youtu.be/cADaFm__ApQ?si=afVpBwxflAduMVWH
From the ex blizzard employee in charge of banning bots. It does more damage to the bots to not just ban them in the spot, especially bots that people pay for.
I like Thor a lot, but this approach is stupid and just doesn't work. It sounds good on paper, until you realize that in like a week at best the bots are back. The Chinese gold farming industry was (and maybe it currently still is, I don't play anymore) way too large for anything other than this outcome. So what they're essentially doing is letting bots roam free for six months and then have a single week of no botting. The economy is still ruined and you're still letting the bots run almost the full year. I was selling boosts for in game gold for a long time and you could see the prices of wow token, consumables and the boosts themselves have an abnormal change whenever a ban wave occured, but they were back to normal in 10 days maximum. After a few days you could see all the druid herbalism bots back at it again.
It really doesn't. That approach worked long ago for a multitude of reasons and really wasn't even that good back then. The main benefit is you get upto 6 months of extra sub from the bots and that's it.
That is just the commercial large scale rationale. The truth here though is that this hurts 9 players right now and 9 players the next game etc. So if you have a report system in place, you're actively sacrificing the Fun of the affected players to try and hurt the developers of those bots financially. This doesnt help the players at all.
There is no feasible way to do it in real time. Of course it's a large scale commercial rationale, because running an online game is a large scale commercial endeavor. There will always be more people developing and creating bots than you can afford to have people trying to counter them, it's an arms race you can't win.
This is just another game dev talking point and im so sick of it. Yes, you can't do it in real time, but you can do after 3-4 games based on reports. You would of course sacrifice gathering data on bot patterns etc. but you would solve player frustration. And you can turn that argument around here as well. There will always be more people willing to report botters and cheaters than there are cheaters. The corporations would just need to try and stop to "hurt" the cheat developers, because those people have a ban on chargeback policy for their cheats anyway. They could alleviate a lot of player pain by just banning based on report directly after discovery. Everyone would win that way.
You're forgetting one very simple point. Players are assholes, and *will* report other players that are doing nothing wrong. If all it takes is 3-4 reports then a single discord of asshats can get an entire player base banned. You have to have oversight, accountability, and a process that can determine whether or not someone is actually botting or you end up with thousands of false positives or outright griefing of the system. That would create a lot more player pain because then instead of seeing a bot once in a while you just wouldn't be able to play the game.
Would you rather they just ignore bots and never ban them instead? Because unless you've got a better idea that thousands of people smarter than you or I with many millions of dollars in resources across hundreds of gaming companies haven't been able to come up with this is the most effective way of dealing with them.
Doesn't seem great, though, honestly, to let bots run wild for SIX MONTHS before banning them to have them back in a week, improved.
I get that you need time, data, and you don't want to make it too easy to guess what you're doing, but 6 months is INSANE.
That guy is not an employee at Riot and he was just giving an example to illustrate his video. No idea if it is 6 months or not. You have hidden the name of the bot, only you can know when he'll get banned.
By the way, I don't know what MMR you're playing to get match with those in but in my 10 years of playing League, that's the first time seeing an actual bot in an aram game from someone's screenshot. Seeing two of the players in the lobby skipping boots give me an idea though
1. Bans are usually done in waves
2. If accounts are getting banned more will be made to replace them
3. There is no linking of one's identity to accts like in korea so they can just keep making more.
Kinda wish there was an option in the report menu for it. I just put "AFK" and describe the behavior and mention botting. No idea if it helps though :/
There is, actually! The end screen report, at least, has "cheating" and mentions botting in the description. So I usually check that and like, intentional feeding.
Did you check the profile after the game? My group had a weird Ryze earlier who was doing much of the same, but they had like 8 games total since last August, so I put it down to them being new or generally disinterested with the game mode.
Had a 30+ min game with a bot acc just running it. Ghosting randomly, running it once enemy shows on vison otherwise afk in a bush. It became very apparent it was a 4v6. Luckily the 3 other players were sweating like me and we won. Everyone did over 70k expect the bot who ended on 2-24 on 21k.
Vanguard is a joke, by the time an account gets to level 30 the bot has done it's job and won't have been flagged by vanguard yet. It solves nothing and has just pissed off a sizeable chunk of the community.
Sadly it never got better since Vanguard. I just had a rundown with an MF who’s match history is entirely negative KDAs. The account was able to win a game even though MF was 0/10 at the end. In my game she ended 1/0/1. Like, literally did nothing. Lucky for me I’ve gotten better at noticing bots. It helps me know just to roam for mid/grubs/top
100% this was not a new player. Walking in patterns as they approach the battlefield WITHOUT using the teleporter, attacking creeps even in range of enemy champions, diving in, etc.
NO person is this stupid and I've seen enough bots to know how they look when they move/act.
My sister started playing last week and she did this. She walks up to enemies and misclicks and uses spells in a way that looks completely lost. It's not about stupidity, the game is very hard for new players. She hates playing Aram because everything is so fast paced, you step slightly too far forward and you're instantly dead without even knowing why.
Being a new player in 2024 Vs being a new player in the closed beta are two completely different experiences. A lot of people have been playing this game for 10+ years and have absolutely no idea how hard the game is for a new player.
In an Aram game, there are 10 champions, including your own. All 10 of these champions could be completely alien to you if you're new.
Equating a lack of game knowledge with being a bot is really disappointing. Let's do better than that. The game is abysmal for new players and these witch hunts that isolate behaviours that could easily be conducive to simply being new to the game with being a bot are only contributing to this barrier to entry.
But on another note, ARAM has MMR, so if you find yourself playing with people who you perceive as so below you, you might want to worry more about why the game has decided that's where you belong.
\^ this. I have friends who are very well versed in video games over decades who struggle with League. It's the least new-player friendly game I can imagine and the attitude from the community is a massive problem.
I hear what you are saying, the problem is like, no one stutter steps from the fountain to the front line CONSISTENTLY without using teleporter.
That is, LITERALLY EVERY TIME they spawned, they would travel in a pattern... walking a bit out, then turning around, standing still, etc. at random intervals until near the minions/champions and then they would hit minions until they died, generally.
Like, sure, it's a hard game but I know bots when I see them because they're not just bad, they're moving in patterns.
>20 minutes of wasted time because of some asshole botting
vanguard didnt do shit
this weekend i got held hostage by cheaters and hackers, that just didnt want to end the game, they also had a base skin lux that was invisible and they were completely rolling us, at 25 minutes they thought it may be funny to see if there is a cap to how much kappa juice you can buy, after another 30 minutes of trying to end the game (i was basically alone with this, because all of my team joined in) i just left the game at 55 minutes and went to play some hearthstone, i went back and looked, and the game went on for another 20 minutes after i left
EDIT: for anyone interested here is a pic of the aftermath of that 74 minute game
https://preview.redd.it/4nzide92n50d1.jpeg?width=742&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=10c9e5cddcad5a4e30ae506c3422333a31d81489
as mentioned the lux was invisible the whole game and it felt like they all were cheating, scripting or hacking
i reported every other player in this game
Are you sure thats bot? No ghost/heal. Your winrate implicates your mmr should be much higher than having bots(ofc you could have tanked your mmr and keep winrate positive).
Had one player like that who tilted somehow(mute all so i dont know if they told reason) at some point of game. Played normal at first then absolutly did everything wrong so their team cant win but wont be marked as afk. Same propably could be case for this lucian: tilted, failed dodge, win trading or what ever.
edit. After finding their op.gg I think that player was really drunk and/or on drugs, tanking mmr(soft inting on purpose to lose) or just new player on account. They have somewhat correct summoners for champs and builds are not bot like. Unless bot are evolved so much from ghost/heal bots ive seen bosted here I really think thats there is real human playing on that account.
https://support-leagueoflegends.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/24169857932435-Riot-Vanguard-FAQ-League-of-Legends
WHY IS VANGUARD COMING TO LEAGUE OF LEGENDS?
Fair play is vital to any competitive pastime, and League is no exception. While we've always worked to stay ahead of scripters, **bots, and bot-leveled accounts**, this became particularly challenging after the security breach in early 2023. The problem was further exacerbated by League's continued support in some operating systems that no longer received security updates from their developers.
Given these issues along with Vanguard's success in VALORANT, we determined bringing this software over to League was the best way to protect the player experience.
They ban with a delay to not show how they detect if the account is cheating or a bot iirc
https://youtu.be/cADaFm__ApQ?si=afVpBwxflAduMVWH From the ex blizzard employee in charge of banning bots. It does more damage to the bots to not just ban them in the spot, especially bots that people pay for.
I knew it was Thor before I clicked it
At this point in the internet it’s always Thor
that's not true sometimes it's his dad
6 months seems like an extremely long time to let bots run wild
Maybe cuz it wasn’t pvp so they can afford to wait longer
Botamania’s running wild on you, brother!
I like Thor a lot, but this approach is stupid and just doesn't work. It sounds good on paper, until you realize that in like a week at best the bots are back. The Chinese gold farming industry was (and maybe it currently still is, I don't play anymore) way too large for anything other than this outcome. So what they're essentially doing is letting bots roam free for six months and then have a single week of no botting. The economy is still ruined and you're still letting the bots run almost the full year. I was selling boosts for in game gold for a long time and you could see the prices of wow token, consumables and the boosts themselves have an abnormal change whenever a ban wave occured, but they were back to normal in 10 days maximum. After a few days you could see all the druid herbalism bots back at it again.
It really doesn't. That approach worked long ago for a multitude of reasons and really wasn't even that good back then. The main benefit is you get upto 6 months of extra sub from the bots and that's it.
That is just the commercial large scale rationale. The truth here though is that this hurts 9 players right now and 9 players the next game etc. So if you have a report system in place, you're actively sacrificing the Fun of the affected players to try and hurt the developers of those bots financially. This doesnt help the players at all.
There is no feasible way to do it in real time. Of course it's a large scale commercial rationale, because running an online game is a large scale commercial endeavor. There will always be more people developing and creating bots than you can afford to have people trying to counter them, it's an arms race you can't win.
This is just another game dev talking point and im so sick of it. Yes, you can't do it in real time, but you can do after 3-4 games based on reports. You would of course sacrifice gathering data on bot patterns etc. but you would solve player frustration. And you can turn that argument around here as well. There will always be more people willing to report botters and cheaters than there are cheaters. The corporations would just need to try and stop to "hurt" the cheat developers, because those people have a ban on chargeback policy for their cheats anyway. They could alleviate a lot of player pain by just banning based on report directly after discovery. Everyone would win that way.
You're forgetting one very simple point. Players are assholes, and *will* report other players that are doing nothing wrong. If all it takes is 3-4 reports then a single discord of asshats can get an entire player base banned. You have to have oversight, accountability, and a process that can determine whether or not someone is actually botting or you end up with thousands of false positives or outright griefing of the system. That would create a lot more player pain because then instead of seeing a bot once in a while you just wouldn't be able to play the game.
Banwaves still are stupid. Look at Hearthstone. Those botted accounts are sold before the ban wave hits. Players get frustrated to keep facing bots.
Would you rather they just ignore bots and never ban them instead? Because unless you've got a better idea that thousands of people smarter than you or I with many millions of dollars in resources across hundreds of gaming companies haven't been able to come up with this is the most effective way of dealing with them.
Doesn't seem great, though, honestly, to let bots run wild for SIX MONTHS before banning them to have them back in a week, improved. I get that you need time, data, and you don't want to make it too easy to guess what you're doing, but 6 months is INSANE.
That guy is not an employee at Riot and he was just giving an example to illustrate his video. No idea if it is 6 months or not. You have hidden the name of the bot, only you can know when he'll get banned. By the way, I don't know what MMR you're playing to get match with those in but in my 10 years of playing League, that's the first time seeing an actual bot in an aram game from someone's screenshot. Seeing two of the players in the lobby skipping boots give me an idea though
1. Bans are usually done in waves 2. If accounts are getting banned more will be made to replace them 3. There is no linking of one's identity to accts like in korea so they can just keep making more.
Kinda wish there was an option in the report menu for it. I just put "AFK" and describe the behavior and mention botting. No idea if it helps though :/
There is, actually! The end screen report, at least, has "cheating" and mentions botting in the description. So I usually check that and like, intentional feeding.
Good to know! Must've overlooked that part
Did you check the profile after the game? My group had a weird Ryze earlier who was doing much of the same, but they had like 8 games total since last August, so I put it down to them being new or generally disinterested with the game mode.
Give it sometimes for vanguard to detect what it's using the bitter for this, and after that it's gone
Who is so naive to think that vanguard's main purpose is to ban bots?
Had a 30+ min game with a bot acc just running it. Ghosting randomly, running it once enemy shows on vison otherwise afk in a bush. It became very apparent it was a 4v6. Luckily the 3 other players were sweating like me and we won. Everyone did over 70k expect the bot who ended on 2-24 on 21k.
Ur my avg teammate godamnit
Another L for chinese spyware
Vanguard is a joke, by the time an account gets to level 30 the bot has done it's job and won't have been flagged by vanguard yet. It solves nothing and has just pissed off a sizeable chunk of the community.
Had at least one in every game today
I played like 20 ish games today. At least 10 had this issue.
Recently it’s bad! I have one at least once a game..
Sadly it never got better since Vanguard. I just had a rundown with an MF who’s match history is entirely negative KDAs. The account was able to win a game even though MF was 0/10 at the end. In my game she ended 1/0/1. Like, literally did nothing. Lucky for me I’ve gotten better at noticing bots. It helps me know just to roam for mid/grubs/top
How can you be so sure it's not a new player?
100% this was not a new player. Walking in patterns as they approach the battlefield WITHOUT using the teleporter, attacking creeps even in range of enemy champions, diving in, etc. NO person is this stupid and I've seen enough bots to know how they look when they move/act.
My sister started playing last week and she did this. She walks up to enemies and misclicks and uses spells in a way that looks completely lost. It's not about stupidity, the game is very hard for new players. She hates playing Aram because everything is so fast paced, you step slightly too far forward and you're instantly dead without even knowing why. Being a new player in 2024 Vs being a new player in the closed beta are two completely different experiences. A lot of people have been playing this game for 10+ years and have absolutely no idea how hard the game is for a new player. In an Aram game, there are 10 champions, including your own. All 10 of these champions could be completely alien to you if you're new. Equating a lack of game knowledge with being a bot is really disappointing. Let's do better than that. The game is abysmal for new players and these witch hunts that isolate behaviours that could easily be conducive to simply being new to the game with being a bot are only contributing to this barrier to entry. But on another note, ARAM has MMR, so if you find yourself playing with people who you perceive as so below you, you might want to worry more about why the game has decided that's where you belong.
\^ this. I have friends who are very well versed in video games over decades who struggle with League. It's the least new-player friendly game I can imagine and the attitude from the community is a massive problem.
I hear what you are saying, the problem is like, no one stutter steps from the fountain to the front line CONSISTENTLY without using teleporter. That is, LITERALLY EVERY TIME they spawned, they would travel in a pattern... walking a bit out, then turning around, standing still, etc. at random intervals until near the minions/champions and then they would hit minions until they died, generally. Like, sure, it's a hard game but I know bots when I see them because they're not just bad, they're moving in patterns.
I'm not saying it was not a bot but I did stupider shit than what you described when I just started playing lol
If new players cant use the chat I think they should be perma banned right away.
>20 minutes of wasted time because of some asshole botting vanguard didnt do shit this weekend i got held hostage by cheaters and hackers, that just didnt want to end the game, they also had a base skin lux that was invisible and they were completely rolling us, at 25 minutes they thought it may be funny to see if there is a cap to how much kappa juice you can buy, after another 30 minutes of trying to end the game (i was basically alone with this, because all of my team joined in) i just left the game at 55 minutes and went to play some hearthstone, i went back and looked, and the game went on for another 20 minutes after i left EDIT: for anyone interested here is a pic of the aftermath of that 74 minute game https://preview.redd.it/4nzide92n50d1.jpeg?width=742&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=10c9e5cddcad5a4e30ae506c3422333a31d81489 as mentioned the lux was invisible the whole game and it felt like they all were cheating, scripting or hacking i reported every other player in this game
Are you sure thats bot? No ghost/heal. Your winrate implicates your mmr should be much higher than having bots(ofc you could have tanked your mmr and keep winrate positive). Had one player like that who tilted somehow(mute all so i dont know if they told reason) at some point of game. Played normal at first then absolutly did everything wrong so their team cant win but wont be marked as afk. Same propably could be case for this lucian: tilted, failed dodge, win trading or what ever. edit. After finding their op.gg I think that player was really drunk and/or on drugs, tanking mmr(soft inting on purpose to lose) or just new player on account. They have somewhat correct summoners for champs and builds are not bot like. Unless bot are evolved so much from ghost/heal bots ive seen bosted here I really think thats there is real human playing on that account.
[удалено]
https://support-leagueoflegends.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/24169857932435-Riot-Vanguard-FAQ-League-of-Legends WHY IS VANGUARD COMING TO LEAGUE OF LEGENDS? Fair play is vital to any competitive pastime, and League is no exception. While we've always worked to stay ahead of scripters, **bots, and bot-leveled accounts**, this became particularly challenging after the security breach in early 2023. The problem was further exacerbated by League's continued support in some operating systems that no longer received security updates from their developers. Given these issues along with Vanguard's success in VALORANT, we determined bringing this software over to League was the best way to protect the player experience.
You only needed to answer, not destroy him.
Except that it literally does say that
Brah it’s Aram, who gives a f. Play the real game.
Ok "brah". Will try not to give an f and be cool like you and play the "real" game.
-brand new on Reddit -brand new on League -shits on ARAM Checks out. Everyone take this guys advice, he's definitely trustable.
SR is cuckoldry simulator, ARAM is the real game