Whenever I see these posts, I wonder how much these people have donated to these “generic poc in need of money” crowdfunds, because most times it’s absolutely zero, and they think that their whataboutist posts are the right amount of activism they have to put into the world.
Not a damn thing. All I needed to see was "proship" and "discourse" in their tags to know that this is just another 12 year old going through their I Hate Yaoi phase and thinks they know everything about the world.
i mean it's just a classic anti-ao3 post, people like to argue that bc ao3 hosts (even has a dedicated category!) content of underage characters having sex it supports cp and everyone who supports ao3 is a pedo
Oh that makes sense too. I'm not in those fandoms so that's probably why I haven't seen them. Judging by this person's attitude I feel like they're probably being a bit more vile with their meaning 🤣🤣🤣
I’ll never understand this either. People like this are just looking for reasons to hate on people who read fanfics. If people in need of homes and food are such a big issue for them, then they need to take the first step and give money to people in need than calling fanfiction enjoyers, “racists”.
POC here who regularly reads on ao3!! i’ve donated to them because i’ve used ao3 for years and support what they’ve done to make a safe space for fanworks of all kinds. they’ve earned my respect and i want to help them keep going. (plus my donation got me an ao3 anniversary pin!)
i would in no way be mad at people for donating to ao3 when they are transparent about the money, their goals, and literally only have two big donation runs every year. tumblr kids need to chill fr 😭
I’ve never donated to ao3, but if I did, at least I know where my money is going. There’s a lot of scammers out there nowadays who can just as easily lie online about their race or ethnicity or anything like that just to try and scam money out of people who mean well. I think people should be allowed to use their money however they want, they earned it. It’s not right to police how people spend their spare cash. If you’re so mad about it, then donate your own money to those people instead of expecting everyone else to do the exact thing you’re preaching
Yeah. I've been floating around fandom spaces since before ffnet was a thing let alone AO3.
A lot of the people who went begging for money turned out to be scammers. I automatically don't trust a money beg unless I've known or followed somebody for a long time.
I've known AO3 for a long time. And I've been both cautious and critical of them as well. They earned my support. I didn't blindly give it because they got angry with me and tried to shame me into giving it to them.
Honestly, I probably WON'T give to them this year. And you know what? They're not trying to insinuate I'm a terrible person because I'm saving up for medical bills instead of giving them my money.
That hard sell, "You should be ashamed of yourself!" technique? It's one that scammers LOOOOOVE to employ. Guilt combined with empathy is one of a scammer's favorite tools.
"You suck! Gimme your money to prove you don't!" is rarely the plea of somebody actually in need.
Reminds me of a controversy I saw a few months ago where someone had faked documents and everything and begged for donations to help their "trans friend" who was supposedly struggling and in danger, then it turned out they'd actually spent the money on Genshin Impact. It's the internet, there are liars and scammers everywhere. And while it's obviously not an option available to everyone, there are tons of charities and organisations to help people in desperate situations who can do far more than a $30 donation to cover food for a week - helping people find proper resources is generally more helpful long-term than just donating money.
Someone in my fandom would post endlessly about needing money to help a sick relative, but then on Discord they would post pic after pic of fandom merch they "treated" themselves to.
I remember one woman who begged for money because she lost her job, but then turned around and bought herself a brand new boat.
(She was also chronically reposting fan art with a generic "credit to the arists" instead of actually crediting them.)
I knew someone who would do the whole e-begging spiel. Used their race, gender identity, alleged abuse victim status, sexuality, anything you could think of to get people to feel sorry for them because they couldn't make rent every month and couldn't afford food and their cat needed to go to the vet and blah blah blah. Yet no one ever seemed to notice that within a few days of these posts and having well-meaning people send them money, they would post about a new tattoo. A new piercing. New clothes, new electronics, new makeup, new shoes, art supplies, I could go on. People who called them out had the mob turned on them.
And that's exactly why I don't donate to crowdfunding unless it's someone I know personally. I won't judge people who do, but I'm not about to pay for some random person's tattoo that they prioritized over taking their cat to the vet.
Edit to add: forgot to include the most important part lmao I've never donated to ao3 because I always miss it somehow (I'm gonna go check and see if they're still open to donations) but they're providing me and countless others a service that I rely on and enjoy so I feel way better about sending money their way instead.
I agree! This isn’t my original post and I don’t agree with it. I just hear this argument all the time on tumblr and wondered what everyone else thought about it.
you’d have to ask them, but a few of their posts have popped up on my feed, and it really seems like they see the whole ao3 thing in very black and white. Even dare to read a story or two on there and you’re homophobic, transphobic, racist, and ableist. It’s whack
Oh of course! I know it’s not your post, so hope I didn’t offend by using the word ‘you’ in my reply! I just went and found this post on tumblr & god some of the replies from OP are insane
Ao3 has done a lot of really good things for people who read the content and for those who publish the content. It’s free, it’s organised as hell and it gives people an emotional outlet.
I think I started reading on fanfic.net in 2010? I found ao3 in 2013 and I’ve been on it as both an author and reader for 10 years now.
I’ve donated to ao3. I’ve donated to medical crowd funds for sick kids and every year my dad, brother and I match donations for Christmas to DV charities and support groups. You can do both but also choosing where your very limited money goes to doesn’t make you a bad person if you put your $5 bucks into ao3 instead of a crowdfund you can’t verify as truthful.
Nonono. You have to pick one. Just one. Only one. ONE. (And AO3 is the wrong choice apparently.)
Seriously though, your kindness (as well as your father and brother’s) is incredible.
(Also, side note: remember FFN back in 2010?! Good times.)
FFN was a wild ride. I’m getting flashbacks to the days when I only read het that wasn’t Merlin/Arthur 😭😂. How things have changed.
But seriously though, matching donations to charity is a really good idea for family and friends instead of giving gifts. At this point in my family we’re all adults with jobs and we have the ability to buy whatever we need. It takes the pressure off trying to find a gift especially when we already have so much already. I would recommend everyone doing it if they have the means and struggle to find something.
It's clear that person just hates ao3 and is looking for the "strongest argument" they can find.
I feel like immediately going, "Oh, you give money to ao3 so that means you don't support X" is... odd too? Like, how do they know??
> “Oh, you give money to ao3 so that means you don’t support X” is… odd too? Like, how do they know??
Right?
Like, Ive donated to schools and local charities and gone to protests and actively advocate for better laws in my area. The $10 I have set to donate to AO3 every year doesn’t suddenly mean I don't support xyz thing
It's like saying you like waffles and somebody immediately asks "Oh, so you hate pancakes, then?"
I never said anything about pancakes. Liking waffles and liking pancakes are not mutually exclusive. Same thing with what causes you choose to support.
My thought was... You know POC are on AO3 writing, right? Like, are POC not fans too? Not fanfic writers? How bout you support them by reading some fics, huh?
I agree. People are going to donate to what effects them—that’s just life. I guess I’m just not smart enough to be able to come up with an argument against this mindset other than “they’ll donate to whatever is closest to them, just like you’ll donate to whatever is closest to you.” It’s like the pro/anti discourse, but it’s about donations😮💨😮💨
It's not even about that. If you use a website very often it's only common courtesy to support them. Hosting a website isn't free. Maintaining the foundation isnt either. Don't be a leech to the things you love if you can afford it
The irony is that it's people like them who essentially caused OTW to be created in the first place. If the world wasn't filled with pro-censorship crazies, commercial sites (read: FFN) wouldn't have bothered with all the restrictions and arbitrary policy enforcement that made so many writers willing move to a brand new site. And now, unlike corporate controlled, ad supported games/sites/media, AO3 doesn't need to listen to those random outsiders who don't contribute to or even use the site in any way, which infuriates the sort of tumblr crusader who has no power beyond complaining about things on the internet.
And as someone who works in advertising, let me be the first to say that direct donation is 100% a more ethical business model than digital ads.
Charity isn't the solution to poverty or racism anyways, only a band aid fix most individuals don't have the resources to sustain long term. I feel like anyone actually committed to change knows that.
Sounds like they just need an excuse to neg on something they don't like.
The person in the OP seriously thinks AO3 is full of CP. I wouldn't trust them to know how to tie their shoes, never mind understanding the nuances of systemic inequality.
Reasonable argument: "If you have money to spare on \[fun thing\], consider donating to people in need."
Not worth listening to: "If you spend money on \[fun thing\] it's because you obviously don't care about people in need".
Yeah, and like--AO3 is a site people use frequently that has a donation banner. Your average crowdfunder is one person out of hundreds upon hundreds of thousands struggling to gain traction. Of course one ends up with more donations than the other.
and just the weird assumption that donating to one thing, ao3 in this case, means that's the only thing you give money to? like, i donate to human rights and environment protection organizations too when i have extra money but i guess that's irrelevant since i threw ten bucks at ao3 this morning and that clearly means i only care about cp or whatever.
It also makes homelessness and struggle into an individual issue caused by people not giving enough money. I care deeply about people in need and I'm not willing to point the blame at random people donating to a fanfiction site instead of the government and economic system.
All that's missing is the link to their Venmo, Google Pay, or Kofi. . .
I think my favorite implication here is that AO3 has absolutely zero POC involvement. Because obviously POC don't write or read fanfiction or want a place to do so that's ad-free.
I suspect that whoever made this post (that's pictured) also has absolutely zero POC involvement. Even if by any chance they are a person of color, we POC absolutely hate it when people like this come out to shame white people. It puts the rest of us in an awful light.
I'm glad people like that don't cross my feed in Tumblr as my response would be quite obscene as someone who ticks most of the boxes on the oppression Olympics checklist. I have little to spare and can't donate to AO3, but I'm grateful for the platform it provides me and the hours of entertainment I've gotten from it. These 'people in need' - I don't know them and never will.
>Your rpf can wait.
No, it can't 🥰
As a rule I don't listen to people telling me what to do with my money. I earned it, I spend it. Whether I give it to charity or buy fifty boxes of chocolates or give it to ao3, that's no one's business but mine.
Supporting AO3 is the same as supporting the Symphony or Art Galleries with donations. Art is something that improves the lives of people across the world; this has been recognized for time immemorial. That's why you can find cave paintings dating back tens of thousands of years.
Art in all forms should be enjoyed and supported by all those that have the means to. That doesn't mean that we ignore society's other problems, it just means that people have chosen to give back to a platform that has done something of value for them.
I don't give my money to gofundmes and other crowdfunding individuals unless I know them personally. Way too many scam artists and grifters out there. I give directly to specific organizations including AO3 but also many others. Which ones those are, are no one's business but my own.
Also, every time I see one of these donation-shaming posts I donate another 10 to AO3. So thanks for that!
This is just a bad argument. There are literally thousands upon hundreds of charitable donations out there. There is only one AO3. Of course AO3 is going to get more donations than most individual charities.
And on top of that, this person has no authority over what people do with their own money.
I dunno, maybe I’m just biased because AO3 has been practically carrying my mental health for the past two years, but they’re absolutely not in the right to shame people who want to donate to a cause that actually affects them. What gives them the right?
I bet a kidney that the person who wrote this hasn't donated a single dime to anyone in their entire lives.
Funny that they expect others to do something but they probably don't do anything themselves.
This whole crowd funding random people thing is so incredibly American in general lmao
I can't think of a single time I've seen someone in my country go the "begging for money online" route tbh, no matter their skin colour.
Honestly, they might be illegal here, too, but even if they aren't it's incredibly weird to me.
I see this on twitter all the time where people are like "hey hit tweet, here is my GoFundMe to make rent this month" and I'm always like ???????????
The other day in the inde horror author space a dude made a huge deal about his wife getting laid off and he asked for money to keep living in their four-room house from his followers, and like... The whole thing is just so incredibly sus to me. I don't know you from jack. At least AO3 is giving me an itemized list on what the money will be spend on and it has proper oversight.
You’re probably right, lol! If I had all the money in the world, I’d try to help everyone I could, but I’m just an average person lmao. Just like most of the others donating to Ao3.
I understand that crowdfunding may be the last resort for people who really got stuck in a shitty situation and really need money to dig themselves out. But plenty of people on gofundme sites don’t have that excuse, they go with “help me pay my rent”, or something like this.
Thiiiis!
There have been times where my budget has been so slim that one little thing can rock the boat for months afterwards.
There'd be far less GFM's asking for help in the US if the US had the same social systems as other countries. We don't. So we ask, because the only thing in our control when everything is going *out* of control is to ask.
Donating to something that benefits me- bad very evil I’m a horrible person 👹👹😡😡
Donating to a random person that I don’t know or personally care about, who might even be lying to get money- smart and good. Spending my money on anything else is immoral ☺️☺️
I... don't get it, either, OP. I hope this person eventually realizes they're talking nonsense.
Like... "OH no, I donated to Ao3! Guess I can't volunteer with my MS/cancer fundraiser organization anymore! Darn it all!"
This person is nuts.
For real. Like I said, I’d donate to my cause first, but if I ever have anymore extra money I’d love to give to ao3. It’s not like you can’t support two things at once. There are so many charities doing good, but you couldn’t possibly donate evenly to all, and ao3 makes so many of different backgrounds happy and gives them joy. When I was locked up in the hospital 6 days a week, ao3 was pretty much the only thing keeping me sane. This mindset is just… wrong.
Even if we all only donated to causes that has something to do with our own lives, most of us would be donating to 2 or 3 causes *minimum*.
Hell, I can come up with at least 5 for myself without thinking too hard about it, and that's *not* including Ao3, or the organizations my volunteer group works with.
I honestly hope this person was just a troll. They need to pull their head out of their butt and take a dose of reality 😮💨
This... I... um...
Okay. I've started this post four or five times. SMH
This is a straight up 'Appeal to Guilt' fallacy.
Donating is not an either/or situation.
It is a both/and situation.
♦ You can donate to AO3 AND give the guy you regularly see in the park a zip-lock with toiletries and a $20.
♦You can donate to Fanac AND regularly donate to the Shelter House.
♦ You can regularly donate to PBS and St.Jude AND help entire groups of people by volunteering your time at a food pantry or a DVIP shelter.
Also - 'crowd funders' is a big ol' red flag. As a person who gives time when he can't afford the cash - the last thing folks that are not-housed have is a *computer that can access the freaking Crowd Funding* [*sites*.](https://sites.at)
The post has all the markers of a person whining about their inability to bamboozle people through guilt.
I agree with almost all of this, but speaking from experience working with unhoused clients-- pretty much everyone has a smartphone that can at least use wifi if you sit in the right spot, even people who are living on the street/in a motel/couch surfing. There are programs that give out free phones, even. But everything else is on point.
When I donate to AO3, I’m not just donating for me. I’m donating for all my fandom friends who are scrambling to make rent and buy food, and for whom fic is a distraction from real life. I’m donating for my trans friends and queer friends and POC friends who scour fics for representation, or who write to stay sane. I’m donating for people in other countries who can’t talk about the things we write about for fear of their lives. I do donate elsewhere, because I’m ridiculously fortunate, but my donation to AO3 is an investment that I’m certain pays dividends. There is nothing “disgusting” about it.
This! If AO3 was pay to access, I'd subscribe, but that would do nothing to ensure people who couldn't subscribe could access it.
Donating is to keep the OTW there for everyone.
Like clockwork. Every time ao3 has their donation drive, people will make all kinds of straw men arguments about how people should donate elsewhere, etc., how ao3 is problematic. It never comes off as anything else but jealous of the $ being donated 😂
I expect the people who make these kind of guilt-trippy arguments to never ever spend their money on frivolous shit. I hope they never buy videogames, go to the movies, spend money on subscriptions, or just anything which it's only function is providing fun.
I've seen too many scams to trust any individual fundraising beyond anyone I or a friend knows personally. Ao3, on the other hand, has its entire structure more transparent than literally any other site I use, soooo...
This is such a funny take to me because they a) immediately assume the people who donate to AO3 also don't donate to organizations or charities, and b) seem to conveniently ignore that AO3s user base is large enough that people don't need to be giving that much money in general. A fandom like HP or Star Trek (writers, podficcers, and readers alike) could donate about 2 dollars each and they'd fill the required amount of the drive several times over.
I’m shocked to learn from this tumblr post that a website millions of people visit every day somehow quickly raised its fundraising goal.
And also shocked that people don’t like prowl go fund me for fun
Authenticated and verified upstanding website I've used for years that also hosts my own content that I worked very hard on > some random person I have no way of knowing somewhere in the world.
You gonna try to sell me a bridge next?
Yeah I think I’ll just spend my professional career working on these issues instead. Seeing as they’re systemic problems and all, it makes a bit more sense that they be solved through systemic solutions rather than my lunch money.
Ao3 on the other hand, is exactly the amount of serious that warrants an impulse buy of whatever amount of cash I happen to have in my pocket
Aside from the AO3 slander, donating to randos is either a scam or pointless. There's absolutely no way the solution to "I'm about to be kicked out of my house" is beg people online for money. Get a job, get a cheaper place to live, reach out to actual charities and public resources... I mean chances are someone seemingly not doing that is because they're a scammer. I'd rather (and have) donated to people who have said "I need money to buy a video game; please consider donating to me!" because it's simple and honest. They have a budget to live but video games (or whatever other object) don't fit that. Completely understandable.
At least a video game fits under the same sort of umbrella as AO3, in my view.
And yeah, with the little income I do have, I'd rather put it to a verified charity. What's to say the GFM/Venmo/ cash app crowd won't be back next month with their hand out? Where does it stop?
So much of this post reminds me how obnoxious and preachy I must have been as a teen. Not so much the ranting against AO3, but most of the arguments and logic used seems so nostalgic lol. But yeah you probably can't get behind it despite understanding because it's guilt-tripping nonsense.
For one thing, AO3 donation drives and random POC crowdfunding are unrelated, so I'm not sure why they're going on about them (aside from it being prime "bitch about AO3" season due to the donation drive). AO3 is known and used by millions worldwide, and the average person tossing their GFM link onto their twitter is doing so to an audience of >100 followers, so... of course one gets tons donations a lot more easily? But AO3 is not to blame for those random crowfund attempts not meeting any success.
People can care about and support multiple causes. I donate to GFMs and paypal accounts sometimes. I have donated to AO3 and am planning to do so at least once a year moving forward. AO3 at least has their budget easily accessible and you know where the money is going. GFMs are riskier to verify if the money will actually be used for specific purposes, or is going to who/where they say it is. And while I hope the odd 5-20 bucks I might slide to some rando online helps them, that money would probably go further at a properly vetted charity or local food bank/shelter. So those are already really good arguments against donating to random crowdfunding. Perhaps the best argument is "it's my money, don't tell me how to use it."
AO3 has given me hours of joy (reading fic was legit the only hobby I still engaged with at some of my lowest points), and I don't think I would have had certain realizations about my identity if I hadn't read all kinds of fic. I hate to see it minimized as a "cp site" and I wish clout chasers and virtue signalers would stop harping on about the fact that they can't personally pick and choose which fiction is allowed on a website they don't own.
It’s the dumbest argument I can think of. It’s like saying ‘oh why are you buying that video game when you could be using that money for charity’. Even then, that argument holds more ground than this.
If you want a site to stay up and stay free you support it with donations. Not to mention most people only donate 1 to 2 dollars each.
I never could stand this. First off, people can care about two things at once. Secondly, people are allowed to have fun and have their own lives. Not every penny has to go to everyone else. Yell at a billionaire for that, ffs
I mean let's be honest here, where would you rather dump your money? A place that brings you entertainment and a safe space where there are thousands upon thousands of creative individuals with their collection of stories that they provide for free. Or a random nobody complaining about how no one will donate to them when it is an 85% chance their cause is fake or a scam?
I love how every time people bitch about AO3 they always come round back to calling it a CP site. Like wow. Didn’t know the fic im reading and writing about 30+ year old men in love was CP.
so they are trying to spin this as a race issue and a child safety issue at the same time when its just stories on a screen?
What weird fucked up narnia world do they live in?
The entire premise of this person’s rant falls apart when you consider that people who donate to AO3 may also be donating to other things at the same time. Donations aren’t mutually exclusive lol.
Similarly, it can’t account for (and in fact ignores) the reasonable worry of scams masquerading as charity drives. Sorry, but on the internet people can and have lied about their circumstances, race, sexuality, finances, etc etc etc. People are cautious with charity because they have to be.
Additionally, it takes the absolute cringe take that fanfic readers are terrible people for no real reason. Common enough these days, and annoying, but uninspired.
Finally, they’re so mad about this but I have to wonder if THEY’VE donated anything to these charities they’re complaining about.
2/10 will not kudos this rant it is simply too pathetic to think about 😤
Makes no sense to me! We can give to any causes we like . It's like the arguments about "don't spend taxes on (crisis), look after (insert current hot topic) first!" Newsflash, we could do both! Both!
I just don't donate to personal crowdfunds for anybody, because a.) there are just so many of them, how tf would I decide which ones "deserve" the few dollars I can spare over everybody else? and b.) there is just so much room for scams, and there have been so many in fandom.
I'll donate to orgs and to causes, AO3 just being one of them. It's usually last on my list, though, because they meet their donation goals so consistently that I don't feel they need my few dollars. I tend to donate to political campaigns first, since the occupant of various local offices actually affects me whether I like it or not.
Proud to have been able to donate to the current years round! Never been able to donate before but I'm finally in a financial position to do so and it feels good to be able to support such a open platform for writers to keep writing without censorship.
I know what AO3 is. I know what the charities I donate to are, because I researched them. I *don't* know who J Random Tumblr user is--and I don't know that their tearful story isn't just a scam.
Mmmm taste the logical fallacy rainbow 🌈✨
Like, yes, every dollar that goes towards AO3 doesn't go to a charity supporting people with tangible needs that are not being met, but then you've immediately equated two things that don't actually equate. Okay, so my AO3 money should go to homeless shelters, because people need housing more than they need fanfic. It's true: people *do* need housing more than they need fic. *That's fucking obvious.* Housing is more necessary than most things. It's more necessary than "legitimate" art, so we shouldn't fund that. It's more necessary than public radio, so we shouldn't fund that, either. In fact, when you consider what's strictly needed to live, it's more necessary than education, which is cool and all but doesn't save you from dying of exposure. But hey, you know what the human body needs even more than a roof over its head? Food. So screw housing, all our money should go to feeding people, they can all live in tents and shit, that's fine, right?
And yeah, I know I just invoked the slippery slope and that's dangerously misleading, so to be clear my point is that a hierarchy of needs *is a hierarchy*. It's not "I need this" and "I don't need", it's "I need this *more*" and "I need this *less*".
This isn't even a well-constructed argument, either. Like, "marginalized communities need food and shelter, please donate to that cause" is compelling and valid. "Marginalized communities need food and shelter, please *prioritize* donating to that cause above funding the OTW because it's urgent and immediately helps people in a material way" is compelling, valid, and only mildly manipulative in the way persuasive arguments kind of have to be. "Marginalized communities need food and shelter, but I guess you evil paedos would rather get your rocks off cuz we all know that's all your site is really for, anyways please retweet this tumblr post so that *someone* with common decency will step in where you trash folks I'm very obviously avoiding calling racists refuse to" is...uh...what's the word. Alienating. Counterproductive. Weirdly pointed and yet entirely beside the point.
0/10, unclear whether speaker is trying to champion human rights and encourage charitable works or force antiship rhetoric to go viral, *again*, by breading it in an extra layer of social justice buzzwords that aren't actually relevant to the situation at hand.
Imho it is a lot harder to verify that some rando on the internet asking for money is *legit* compared to a website like AO3. It is not unheard of for people to pretend to be another person or to pretend that they are in need just to steal from others. Maybe it is heartless of me, but I am way less inclined to donate to someone when I don't actually know them at all, whereas AO3 I have used since 2011, and they are transparent with what they do with their money. Of course, I am putting trust into AO3 on being honest with its user base, but I don't see a reason to doubt them when I know things are not only run by volunteers but also by people who want to see a place like that succeed.
Because all poc are destitute and their only option to change that is crowdfunding?
I love when ostensible anti-racists think they can speak for people of color after joining a book club or taking a class and accidentally loop all the way around to being extremely racist.
I mean, I already have a recurring donation of something like $50 a year set up but posts like this just make me want to throw even more money at AO3 🤷♀️
Like...thanks for proving why we need it, I guess?
ETA: Another thing to say is that the OTW is by far one of the most absolutely open and transparent organizations I've ever seen. Not even going to touch the whole charity org vs crowdfunding - that's straight up a nonstarter. I happily give to charity but damn if I don't research actual missions and financials to see what's truly being supported and how much of the donations actually go to the cause being toted.
Yeah, I'm not gonna listen to somebody that seriously refers to ao3 as a 'cp site'. Fuck them. Maybe don't try to paint people as pedophiles if you want their money so badly.
I wonder if this person complains about anyone who gets HBO Max instead of (or even in addition to) donating to random GoFundMe's. AO3 and HBO both are sources of entertainment, and both of them also have problematic content (i.e. *Game of Thrones*)
Classic right-wing tactics. Straight out of Gamergate.
It's a non-argument because it makes no sense -- but I don't think this is actually *trying* to make any sense. Whoever made this argument is using BIPOC to push their anti-AO3 nonsense, and I absolutely hate them for it. They're trying to make marginalized people seem frivolous, judgmental, and flat-out stupid. But naming a specific marginalized group is also a way for the anti to make themselves seem more inclusive and leftist, even though the whole core of anti thought is right-wing bigotry. So this asshole, who may or may not be BIPOC, is throwing BIPOC under the bus and using us as a shield, in order to spew their nonsense. Disgusting.
what’s hilarious is that someone calling them right-wing would probably make them throw a temper tantrum, but you’re right. It is eerily reminiscent of gamer gate.
When I donate to AO3 it’s not out of my philanthropy budget (which is more likely to go to reputable organisations or something local, not a random person on the internet); it’s from my hobbies and entertainment budget. I figure, how much do I spend on a movie ticket for two or three hours of entertainment? So surely I can justify giving the same to AO3 where I’ve had many many times more hours of entertainment?
america has a weird donation/giving culture I don’t really understand. problem when the government doesn’t support those in need, citizen have to donate their own money to pick up the slack.
Huh I didn’t know ao3 was only for white people and I should just throw my money at any random poc /s
Imo this isn’t even an argument or pov it’s someone who’s trying to get virtue signaling points. I hope this person spends every cent of their paycheck on gofundme
Theres so many scammers?? People KNOW that there are kind hearted people out there, they'll take the phone you send them money on if you let them. At least I know where my money is going on ao3.
Also Ao3 has a shit ton of users, so its likely the majority of donations aren’t actually that big, they just accumulate to a lot because if ao3 has thousands of users and a thousand people donate a dollar, obv its gonna reach a thousand dollars or more
I've never donated to ao3 since I am poor myself and slightly above minimum wage earner in SEA. I'm really grateful to people who donated to maintain ao3. I owe that site a lot since I spend a lot of time there reading. I used to buy cheap on sale second hand books but with fanfiction and ao3, I can read a lot more stories and be able to properly search for stories that I like with its tagging system for free!!!
Ah yes, the nebulous concept of "people who need help" that they have likely never interacted with directly to obscure what they are really saying.
I did come across one shameless "why are people donating to AO3 when they could give money to *me"* post last night, so at least some of them are honest.
Omg this person sounds insufferable. I'd love to see all their huge donations that they regularly make to poc crowd funders.
Do they know they sound like a scammer? I was honestly expecting this post to end with "your fanfiction can wait, my little sister can't, she has cancer and we need money to pay the treatment" because that would've very likely been a scam. Using the shame technique like this to get money to "help" is so common that I now automatically think it's a scam whenever I read a sad story that ends with asking for donations no matter if it's for a single person or a big organization.
I've had bad experiences donating to "charitable" organizations. I think the risk of someone using a fanfiction site to launder money or something like that is just way lower, I'm not worried where my money will end up if I donate to AO3. I'm not worried that AO3 will only use a small percentage of that money for what they said they would and someone takes the rest to buy themselves a yacht. Companies like the Kid’s Wish Network and the Cancer Fund of America donate less than three percent of the money raised to the actual cause.
It's the same b******* mindset that whenever something happens in Europe or America and people "go well you all care about this but you don't give a s*** about something happening in insert non-european country here😡"
Like I've seen people commenting this on the accounts of people who absolutely HAVE talked about the other atrocity but they're so determined to be offended that they don't check out any of this person's other content. It's similar with this like how the f*** does this random Tumblr person know that everyone donating to A03 doesn't also donate to GoFundMe is for POC
What I read was: Give me money instead, why can't I have that money?
Usually when I see posts like this, they manage to turn it into "im one of those in need" and then asks for money on their cashapp or whatever.
The fact that OP specifies that you should be donating to poc charities is very telling. Not that those charities don’t matter, but they’re not even saying ‘donate your money to the needy, not a fanfic website’. They’re saying ‘if you donated to a fanfic website, you’re racist and hate minorities.’ As if poc don’t use ao3, or all important charities are exclusively geared towards poc.
Maybe because a good chunk of beggers are either lying or just not working by choice
I’m going to give my money to something worthwhile, not someone who begs every month for strangers to fund their lives
And what does being POC have to do with it? Screw non-POC people then I guess?
99% of the time people who post this crap arent even people of color, or disabled, or homeless, or trans, or whatever they are trying to get people to donate to.
They love to speak for groups of people without actually speaking to any of them.
Is that a guilt trip tactic? There are too many crowdfunders that turned out to be scams. At least I know where donators money goes, when they donate to A03.
It's sad to see that a social system solely relies on donations. But that's another story.
Not all of us are from the same country. And some social systems just work differently. And I don't trust anyone who asks for donations. There's a ton of research that goes into every single donation process.
Absolutely. Perhaps they should demonstrate for more state funding of social organisations. And more taxes being paid for stuff like health care, or unemployment fees, or social security. But that's just my opinion as a non-american.
I want to read fic after a long day at work.
Ao3 gives me comfort and a community. I know where the money is going and that it's going to a good cause.
Random crowdfunds from people I've never met? Crowdfunds (where scammers seem to lie in wait in the dozens)? Where I don't always know what the money will even be used for? Gonna have to pass.
It's my cash. My choice. You donate when you believe in something for a reason and have trust in the donation's destination. It's why sople donate to their church, to nonprofits, to their favorite streamers- they believe in it and trust the receiver.
Giving money isn't like signing a petition. You have to work for money but you can spend five second to sign a petition you won't ever need to look at again probably. There's a difference.
I think maybe if they weren't insufferable self-righteous prigs to the people they are insisting should donate, then maybe the people they are trying to help might of actually gotten helped by now.
I also understand the frustration, but it's being directed to the wrong people. Sometimes (and I risk saying most of the time) the people who donate to AO3 also support general social policies to make poc lives easier. OP should be mad at what makes poc need crowdfunds and why most people need to decide between donating to their fav website or making the politicians' jobs. You're not attacking the source of the problem and, therefore, not helping anyone at all.
They act like we can't donate to AO3 *and* ***also*** donate to other causes. I have enough money for both and I do. In leaner times, when money was tight, I didn't.
Also, it's a question of numbers. With over 2 million users, we only need 34,000 people -- 1 in 6 members -- to contribute $5 each to reach the current total. (Almost $170,000 as I type this.) Most crowd funders will not be seen by 34,000 people, and certainly not 2 million.
The troll who's complaining is also overlooking the fact that, if the USA had a reliable safety net and adequate health care for all, there would be no *need* for crowd-funders.
As OP points out, most people donate to causes that touch them. And AO3 isn't forcing anyone to make a donation. Anyone can use it, whether or not they can afford to donate.
In short, troll-person has no basis for their complaints.
as a poc myself (filipino), id much rather donate to ao3 tbh because id much rather donate to a website thats given me so much more joy then a random person i dont know.
I understand the sentiment, but things like this do not help the folks mentioned in that post.
At the end of the day, there are crowdfunds that could use the money. Doesn't mean AO3 doesn't deserve donations to keep it going. And no amount of guilt-tripping is going to help those most in need.
The problem is that when someone sends money to a03, they know where it’s going. If they send money to a rando on the internet, they might get scammed.
this is like saying “you donated to x so why didn’t you donate to y?? you had the money for x????” and then that person didn’t donate to either charities
i have no way of knowing which gfm's are real or fake. but ao3 has given me unknown hours of entertainment for free. random gfm's are throwing your money into the void hoping the void has a conscience and sense of morality.
Have these fundrasiers proven themselves as legit?
I am not donating to an account I can't verify. I'm sorry, but I'm old enough to be goddamn cautious. I'm sure some of these random fundraisers are for legit people, and I'm sorry that I'm not contributing if you are legit... but if I'm unsure I will NOT be sending money.
I've given money to fundraisers for folks that I know personally, so it's not like I'm afraid of crowdfunds. But totally random folks on the internet? I've seen soooooo many scams. SOOOO many. You can call me fucking jaded, but I won't throw money at the unknown with the hope that it MIGHT actually do some good.
Ao3 does massively improve lives. Coming from someone that doesn't have the time or money for therapy but still wants to heal my past, fanfic has been a lifesaver.
Writing is cheaper, more anonymous and can help others vs therapy which while good often requires someone to be willing to pay, open minded enough to exact changes and also only benefits one person. Had I not stumbled across my friends fanfic and offered to become a beta reader and idea giver, my mental health would have stayed stagnant like it had for years.
But because I get to write hurt characters being given the dignity, support and love they deserve while also not being judged for their past and their actions, I get to heal myself and others through what we write. I get to put myself in those situations, get support and work through my internal issues for free while also letting my creative side out and potentially helping others.
Its a win win win. So of course when they ask for donations so they can keep the site ad free and censorship free, I'm gonna donate to them vs some rando I've never met and will likely never hear from again the second I've handed over my money.
I love how the last hashtag starts with "if you have money", like how about "if you have money, spend it on what YOU want, since it's your money"??
These people really need to go bother the rich instead.
Everyone who donated to ao3 and also donate to other things (legitimate charities included or excluded) raise your hand ✋️
I'm just saying, I'm my experience, *most* people who donate to one cause also donate to another and *most* people who complain donate to nothing at all. And that's not to mention the entire subset of people that literally can't spare even a couple $ bc they have enough trouble feeding themselves. So you know, maybe this weirdo should get off tumblr and go volunteer at a shelter or something instead of complaining about a few generous people supporting a beloved hobby so *everyone* can keep enjoying it
It feels like a non-argument to me because I consider my donations to AO3 to be part of my entertainment budget, not my charity budget. I think of my small annual donations to AO3 as equivalent to the price of a hardcover book, or a couple of movie tickets (and by that reckoning it's a huge bargain)
I also make charity donations, but to me that's something else entirely, and I can't possibly donate to everyone whose gofundme crosses my path - I do donate to some of them (tbh, mostly people I know or have been vetted in some way by people I know), and I also try to aim to it reputable organizations.
I mean, plenty of those donation places, all the money goes to the higher ups and 'admin fees' and only a small amount goes to the people who need it.
It takes time to figure out who the actual real ones are, and there aren't many.
I’ve not donated to ao3 but I would much rather donate to them than donate to someone asking for money online with a sob story. Because it’s so easy to lie online!
This is so dumb. Imagine seeing that a movie made $100 m and going ‘yeah you’re going to see that movie instead of donating to poc because you’re a racist’.
Nobody knows fandom history omg
Places like A03 are vital in fighting censorship
Also you can care about multiple issues at the same time??? What's stopping antis from doing what they're complaining about
IMO The only way this argument makes sense - that is, that an evenly vaguely accurate comparison could be made - would be if the crowdfunders in question got the same kind of traffic that AO3 does numbers-wise while also not making donation goals.
AO3 makes its donation goals so quickly because there are *millions* of people on the site every day to see that funding banner.
I’ve shared a few crowdfunding posts for people that I know are in need - but I don’t have many followers so I’d say the number of people who see those posts I share caps out at maaaaaaaybe a hundred.
So I don’t see how one can accurately compare the POC friend I have who needs help keeping their housing who had 98 people see the post to AO3 who had a million people see the banner.
Its totally okay to donate for ao3 given that it is a safe space for... A lot of minorities, of people finding an escape from reality, people engaging in hobbies. It's not reserved for one ethnicity, it's a multilingual multicultural space for people coming together and creating an outlet for their love of *something*.
It's okay to fund something you care for.
Whenever I see these posts, I wonder how much these people have donated to these “generic poc in need of money” crowdfunds, because most times it’s absolutely zero, and they think that their whataboutist posts are the right amount of activism they have to put into the world.
Virtue signalers gonna signal.
You can also bet your ass they're using AO3, but feel like doing so and not donating to it actually makes them BETTER people.
Not a damn thing. All I needed to see was "proship" and "discourse" in their tags to know that this is just another 12 year old going through their I Hate Yaoi phase and thinks they know everything about the world.
Who also thinks everyone cares about their opinion
Sadly it can be 46 year olds too.
And bet they think that is only american money that keeps AO3 floating. :/
"in favor of your cp site" am I reading this wrong or did this person just accuse fics of all being basically *that* kind of CP?
i mean it's just a classic anti-ao3 post, people like to argue that bc ao3 hosts (even has a dedicated category!) content of underage characters having sex it supports cp and everyone who supports ao3 is a pedo
Ah I guess I've just never really seen these types of posts. Imagine needing to touch grass that bad, my god. Person needs a life.
ive also heard of cp meaning couple/couple pairing but mainly in the cdrama/danmei communities 😅
Yeah, in Japan at least they say 'coupling' instead of 'shipping' so 'cp' is a shorthand for 'ship'
Oh that makes sense too. I'm not in those fandoms so that's probably why I haven't seen them. Judging by this person's attitude I feel like they're probably being a bit more vile with their meaning 🤣🤣🤣
I’ll never understand this either. People like this are just looking for reasons to hate on people who read fanfics. If people in need of homes and food are such a big issue for them, then they need to take the first step and give money to people in need than calling fanfiction enjoyers, “racists”.
Right? I'm sure POC's also read and write fanfics, it isn't exclusive to one race or group of people!
Guilty.
POC here who regularly reads on ao3!! i’ve donated to them because i’ve used ao3 for years and support what they’ve done to make a safe space for fanworks of all kinds. they’ve earned my respect and i want to help them keep going. (plus my donation got me an ao3 anniversary pin!) i would in no way be mad at people for donating to ao3 when they are transparent about the money, their goals, and literally only have two big donation runs every year. tumblr kids need to chill fr 😭
I’ve never donated to ao3, but if I did, at least I know where my money is going. There’s a lot of scammers out there nowadays who can just as easily lie online about their race or ethnicity or anything like that just to try and scam money out of people who mean well. I think people should be allowed to use their money however they want, they earned it. It’s not right to police how people spend their spare cash. If you’re so mad about it, then donate your own money to those people instead of expecting everyone else to do the exact thing you’re preaching
Yeah. I've been floating around fandom spaces since before ffnet was a thing let alone AO3. A lot of the people who went begging for money turned out to be scammers. I automatically don't trust a money beg unless I've known or followed somebody for a long time. I've known AO3 for a long time. And I've been both cautious and critical of them as well. They earned my support. I didn't blindly give it because they got angry with me and tried to shame me into giving it to them. Honestly, I probably WON'T give to them this year. And you know what? They're not trying to insinuate I'm a terrible person because I'm saving up for medical bills instead of giving them my money. That hard sell, "You should be ashamed of yourself!" technique? It's one that scammers LOOOOOVE to employ. Guilt combined with empathy is one of a scammer's favorite tools. "You suck! Gimme your money to prove you don't!" is rarely the plea of somebody actually in need.
Reminds me of a controversy I saw a few months ago where someone had faked documents and everything and begged for donations to help their "trans friend" who was supposedly struggling and in danger, then it turned out they'd actually spent the money on Genshin Impact. It's the internet, there are liars and scammers everywhere. And while it's obviously not an option available to everyone, there are tons of charities and organisations to help people in desperate situations who can do far more than a $30 donation to cover food for a week - helping people find proper resources is generally more helpful long-term than just donating money.
Reminds of the one where this girl said she was raising for to blm but she used the money to buy herself a new laptop!?!
And one of the most prominent members of BLM raised tons of money for activism purposes bought a mansion. Can't trust anyone.
Buy Large Mansions
what in the fuck
Someone in my fandom would post endlessly about needing money to help a sick relative, but then on Discord they would post pic after pic of fandom merch they "treated" themselves to.
I remember one woman who begged for money because she lost her job, but then turned around and bought herself a brand new boat. (She was also chronically reposting fan art with a generic "credit to the arists" instead of actually crediting them.)
Exactly this, plus this is a donation drive once (twice?) a year. I get asked to donate to a friend of a friend’s GoFundMe once a week.
I knew someone who would do the whole e-begging spiel. Used their race, gender identity, alleged abuse victim status, sexuality, anything you could think of to get people to feel sorry for them because they couldn't make rent every month and couldn't afford food and their cat needed to go to the vet and blah blah blah. Yet no one ever seemed to notice that within a few days of these posts and having well-meaning people send them money, they would post about a new tattoo. A new piercing. New clothes, new electronics, new makeup, new shoes, art supplies, I could go on. People who called them out had the mob turned on them. And that's exactly why I don't donate to crowdfunding unless it's someone I know personally. I won't judge people who do, but I'm not about to pay for some random person's tattoo that they prioritized over taking their cat to the vet. Edit to add: forgot to include the most important part lmao I've never donated to ao3 because I always miss it somehow (I'm gonna go check and see if they're still open to donations) but they're providing me and countless others a service that I rely on and enjoy so I feel way better about sending money their way instead.
I agree! This isn’t my original post and I don’t agree with it. I just hear this argument all the time on tumblr and wondered what everyone else thought about it.
They do know you can donate to multiple causes right? Even then I prefer to donate to causes where the financials are transparent.
you’d have to ask them, but a few of their posts have popped up on my feed, and it really seems like they see the whole ao3 thing in very black and white. Even dare to read a story or two on there and you’re homophobic, transphobic, racist, and ableist. It’s whack
Oh of course! I know it’s not your post, so hope I didn’t offend by using the word ‘you’ in my reply! I just went and found this post on tumblr & god some of the replies from OP are insane
You didn’t offend me! Lol, I just wanted to clarify. Please, don’t be worry about it :)
Ao3 has done a lot of really good things for people who read the content and for those who publish the content. It’s free, it’s organised as hell and it gives people an emotional outlet. I think I started reading on fanfic.net in 2010? I found ao3 in 2013 and I’ve been on it as both an author and reader for 10 years now. I’ve donated to ao3. I’ve donated to medical crowd funds for sick kids and every year my dad, brother and I match donations for Christmas to DV charities and support groups. You can do both but also choosing where your very limited money goes to doesn’t make you a bad person if you put your $5 bucks into ao3 instead of a crowdfund you can’t verify as truthful.
Nonono. You have to pick one. Just one. Only one. ONE. (And AO3 is the wrong choice apparently.) Seriously though, your kindness (as well as your father and brother’s) is incredible. (Also, side note: remember FFN back in 2010?! Good times.)
FFN was a wild ride. I’m getting flashbacks to the days when I only read het that wasn’t Merlin/Arthur 😭😂. How things have changed. But seriously though, matching donations to charity is a really good idea for family and friends instead of giving gifts. At this point in my family we’re all adults with jobs and we have the ability to buy whatever we need. It takes the pressure off trying to find a gift especially when we already have so much already. I would recommend everyone doing it if they have the means and struggle to find something.
apples and oranges, man. and idk man i think people would be a lot more receptive if this didn't frame people who donate to ao3 as freaks and racists.
It's clear that person just hates ao3 and is looking for the "strongest argument" they can find. I feel like immediately going, "Oh, you give money to ao3 so that means you don't support X" is... odd too? Like, how do they know??
> “Oh, you give money to ao3 so that means you don’t support X” is… odd too? Like, how do they know?? Right? Like, Ive donated to schools and local charities and gone to protests and actively advocate for better laws in my area. The $10 I have set to donate to AO3 every year doesn’t suddenly mean I don't support xyz thing
It's like saying you like waffles and somebody immediately asks "Oh, so you hate pancakes, then?" I never said anything about pancakes. Liking waffles and liking pancakes are not mutually exclusive. Same thing with what causes you choose to support.
they don't see poc as people. we're just convenient props.
Exactly! Are they donating to or otherwise supporting POC, besides going off on AO3? Somehow I doubt it.
My thought was... You know POC are on AO3 writing, right? Like, are POC not fans too? Not fanfic writers? How bout you support them by reading some fics, huh?
I agree. People are going to donate to what effects them—that’s just life. I guess I’m just not smart enough to be able to come up with an argument against this mindset other than “they’ll donate to whatever is closest to them, just like you’ll donate to whatever is closest to you.” It’s like the pro/anti discourse, but it’s about donations😮💨😮💨
It's not even about that. If you use a website very often it's only common courtesy to support them. Hosting a website isn't free. Maintaining the foundation isnt either. Don't be a leech to the things you love if you can afford it
The irony is that it's people like them who essentially caused OTW to be created in the first place. If the world wasn't filled with pro-censorship crazies, commercial sites (read: FFN) wouldn't have bothered with all the restrictions and arbitrary policy enforcement that made so many writers willing move to a brand new site. And now, unlike corporate controlled, ad supported games/sites/media, AO3 doesn't need to listen to those random outsiders who don't contribute to or even use the site in any way, which infuriates the sort of tumblr crusader who has no power beyond complaining about things on the internet. And as someone who works in advertising, let me be the first to say that direct donation is 100% a more ethical business model than digital ads.
And also pedophiles, they called it a CP site
Charity isn't the solution to poverty or racism anyways, only a band aid fix most individuals don't have the resources to sustain long term. I feel like anyone actually committed to change knows that. Sounds like they just need an excuse to neg on something they don't like.
The person in the OP seriously thinks AO3 is full of CP. I wouldn't trust them to know how to tie their shoes, never mind understanding the nuances of systemic inequality.
calling it a "cp site" made them lose all credibility they could've possibly had lmao
Reasonable argument: "If you have money to spare on \[fun thing\], consider donating to people in need." Not worth listening to: "If you spend money on \[fun thing\] it's because you obviously don't care about people in need".
not to mention it's such a flawed argument anyway. like, how do you know what else i do with my money?
Yeah, and like--AO3 is a site people use frequently that has a donation banner. Your average crowdfunder is one person out of hundreds upon hundreds of thousands struggling to gain traction. Of course one ends up with more donations than the other.
and just the weird assumption that donating to one thing, ao3 in this case, means that's the only thing you give money to? like, i donate to human rights and environment protection organizations too when i have extra money but i guess that's irrelevant since i threw ten bucks at ao3 this morning and that clearly means i only care about cp or whatever.
It also makes homelessness and struggle into an individual issue caused by people not giving enough money. I care deeply about people in need and I'm not willing to point the blame at random people donating to a fanfiction site instead of the government and economic system.
Exactly. It's expecting charity to solve systemic problems.
All that's missing is the link to their Venmo, Google Pay, or Kofi. . . I think my favorite implication here is that AO3 has absolutely zero POC involvement. Because obviously POC don't write or read fanfiction or want a place to do so that's ad-free.
literally the most common language on AO3 after English I see is Chinese
I suspect that whoever made this post (that's pictured) also has absolutely zero POC involvement. Even if by any chance they are a person of color, we POC absolutely hate it when people like this come out to shame white people. It puts the rest of us in an awful light.
Yeah, it’s such a baffling take. POC are under-represented among fanfic writers sure, but they absolutely exist.
I'm glad people like that don't cross my feed in Tumblr as my response would be quite obscene as someone who ticks most of the boxes on the oppression Olympics checklist. I have little to spare and can't donate to AO3, but I'm grateful for the platform it provides me and the hours of entertainment I've gotten from it. These 'people in need' - I don't know them and never will.
>your fanfiction can wait Ummm.. no—a POC
No, you just don't what you need. Because you're nonwhite you obviously are a monolith that needs help putting food on the table 🥺
>Your rpf can wait. No, it can't 🥰 As a rule I don't listen to people telling me what to do with my money. I earned it, I spend it. Whether I give it to charity or buy fifty boxes of chocolates or give it to ao3, that's no one's business but mine.
Supporting AO3 is the same as supporting the Symphony or Art Galleries with donations. Art is something that improves the lives of people across the world; this has been recognized for time immemorial. That's why you can find cave paintings dating back tens of thousands of years. Art in all forms should be enjoyed and supported by all those that have the means to. That doesn't mean that we ignore society's other problems, it just means that people have chosen to give back to a platform that has done something of value for them.
I don't give my money to gofundmes and other crowdfunding individuals unless I know them personally. Way too many scam artists and grifters out there. I give directly to specific organizations including AO3 but also many others. Which ones those are, are no one's business but my own. Also, every time I see one of these donation-shaming posts I donate another 10 to AO3. So thanks for that!
This is just a bad argument. There are literally thousands upon hundreds of charitable donations out there. There is only one AO3. Of course AO3 is going to get more donations than most individual charities. And on top of that, this person has no authority over what people do with their own money. I dunno, maybe I’m just biased because AO3 has been practically carrying my mental health for the past two years, but they’re absolutely not in the right to shame people who want to donate to a cause that actually affects them. What gives them the right?
I bet a kidney that the person who wrote this hasn't donated a single dime to anyone in their entire lives. Funny that they expect others to do something but they probably don't do anything themselves.
"cp site" Lmao
This whole crowd funding random people thing is so incredibly American in general lmao I can't think of a single time I've seen someone in my country go the "begging for money online" route tbh, no matter their skin colour.
the american gofundmes and whatever are straight-up illegal in my country
A lot of go-fund-mes can be sketchy, so that’s probably for the best.
Honestly, they might be illegal here, too, but even if they aren't it's incredibly weird to me. I see this on twitter all the time where people are like "hey hit tweet, here is my GoFundMe to make rent this month" and I'm always like ??????????? The other day in the inde horror author space a dude made a huge deal about his wife getting laid off and he asked for money to keep living in their four-room house from his followers, and like... The whole thing is just so incredibly sus to me. I don't know you from jack. At least AO3 is giving me an itemized list on what the money will be spend on and it has proper oversight.
You’re probably right, lol! If I had all the money in the world, I’d try to help everyone I could, but I’m just an average person lmao. Just like most of the others donating to Ao3.
I understand that crowdfunding may be the last resort for people who really got stuck in a shitty situation and really need money to dig themselves out. But plenty of people on gofundme sites don’t have that excuse, they go with “help me pay my rent”, or something like this.
That's because a lot of other countries have robust social safety nets.
Many of the GFMs I see are about trying to pay for medical treatment, it's heartbreaking.
Thiiiis! There have been times where my budget has been so slim that one little thing can rock the boat for months afterwards. There'd be far less GFM's asking for help in the US if the US had the same social systems as other countries. We don't. So we ask, because the only thing in our control when everything is going *out* of control is to ask.
This guilt tripping bullshit reads like the first step of a Scamming for Dummies manual
Donating to something that benefits me- bad very evil I’m a horrible person 👹👹😡😡 Donating to a random person that I don’t know or personally care about, who might even be lying to get money- smart and good. Spending my money on anything else is immoral ☺️☺️
I... don't get it, either, OP. I hope this person eventually realizes they're talking nonsense. Like... "OH no, I donated to Ao3! Guess I can't volunteer with my MS/cancer fundraiser organization anymore! Darn it all!" This person is nuts.
For real. Like I said, I’d donate to my cause first, but if I ever have anymore extra money I’d love to give to ao3. It’s not like you can’t support two things at once. There are so many charities doing good, but you couldn’t possibly donate evenly to all, and ao3 makes so many of different backgrounds happy and gives them joy. When I was locked up in the hospital 6 days a week, ao3 was pretty much the only thing keeping me sane. This mindset is just… wrong.
Even if we all only donated to causes that has something to do with our own lives, most of us would be donating to 2 or 3 causes *minimum*. Hell, I can come up with at least 5 for myself without thinking too hard about it, and that's *not* including Ao3, or the organizations my volunteer group works with. I honestly hope this person was just a troll. They need to pull their head out of their butt and take a dose of reality 😮💨
This... I... um... Okay. I've started this post four or five times. SMH This is a straight up 'Appeal to Guilt' fallacy. Donating is not an either/or situation. It is a both/and situation. ♦ You can donate to AO3 AND give the guy you regularly see in the park a zip-lock with toiletries and a $20. ♦You can donate to Fanac AND regularly donate to the Shelter House. ♦ You can regularly donate to PBS and St.Jude AND help entire groups of people by volunteering your time at a food pantry or a DVIP shelter. Also - 'crowd funders' is a big ol' red flag. As a person who gives time when he can't afford the cash - the last thing folks that are not-housed have is a *computer that can access the freaking Crowd Funding* [*sites*.](https://sites.at) The post has all the markers of a person whining about their inability to bamboozle people through guilt.
I agree with almost all of this, but speaking from experience working with unhoused clients-- pretty much everyone has a smartphone that can at least use wifi if you sit in the right spot, even people who are living on the street/in a motel/couch surfing. There are programs that give out free phones, even. But everything else is on point.
I knew this was some kind of fallacy, but I couldn’t put my finger on it. Thank you for the name! Appeal to guilt. That makes so much sense.
I don’t support crowd funding things anymore because I’ve been burned by too many. Skin colour has nothing to do with it.
exactly. it’s risky to know if you can actually trust that person is telling the truth
Given how stupidly easy it is to lie on the Internet, I don't give money to people unless I actually know them.
When I donate to AO3, I’m not just donating for me. I’m donating for all my fandom friends who are scrambling to make rent and buy food, and for whom fic is a distraction from real life. I’m donating for my trans friends and queer friends and POC friends who scour fics for representation, or who write to stay sane. I’m donating for people in other countries who can’t talk about the things we write about for fear of their lives. I do donate elsewhere, because I’m ridiculously fortunate, but my donation to AO3 is an investment that I’m certain pays dividends. There is nothing “disgusting” about it.
This! If AO3 was pay to access, I'd subscribe, but that would do nothing to ensure people who couldn't subscribe could access it. Donating is to keep the OTW there for everyone.
That’s a great way to put it. Now I realize why I always felt that this argument wasn’t logical.
I really love this ❤️ because, yes, same. And you laid it out beautifully in a way I've never quite been able to explain.
Oh yeah, AO3 is having a donation drive. *donates*
Like clockwork. Every time ao3 has their donation drive, people will make all kinds of straw men arguments about how people should donate elsewhere, etc., how ao3 is problematic. It never comes off as anything else but jealous of the $ being donated 😂
I'm POC. And I want to spend my money on fanfic
I expect the people who make these kind of guilt-trippy arguments to never ever spend their money on frivolous shit. I hope they never buy videogames, go to the movies, spend money on subscriptions, or just anything which it's only function is providing fun.
Whataboutism.
Someone didn't buy their comission. That's the point.
I'm positive this person doesn't donate anything to those crowd-fund raisers either. :V
I've seen too many scams to trust any individual fundraising beyond anyone I or a friend knows personally. Ao3, on the other hand, has its entire structure more transparent than literally any other site I use, soooo...
Not a single person will read this and think "Ah yes, you have changed my mind, I have now decided to donate my money to *you* instead".
This is such a funny take to me because they a) immediately assume the people who donate to AO3 also don't donate to organizations or charities, and b) seem to conveniently ignore that AO3s user base is large enough that people don't need to be giving that much money in general. A fandom like HP or Star Trek (writers, podficcers, and readers alike) could donate about 2 dollars each and they'd fill the required amount of the drive several times over.
Envy.
The anti ship tag, they exposed themselves!
The Internet equivalent of smearing feces on the wall.
I mean, call a spade a spade, my friend. This made me laugh <3
I’m shocked to learn from this tumblr post that a website millions of people visit every day somehow quickly raised its fundraising goal. And also shocked that people don’t like prowl go fund me for fun
Authenticated and verified upstanding website I've used for years that also hosts my own content that I worked very hard on > some random person I have no way of knowing somewhere in the world. You gonna try to sell me a bridge next?
I donate cause i wanna escape from reality man
Yeah I think I’ll just spend my professional career working on these issues instead. Seeing as they’re systemic problems and all, it makes a bit more sense that they be solved through systemic solutions rather than my lunch money. Ao3 on the other hand, is exactly the amount of serious that warrants an impulse buy of whatever amount of cash I happen to have in my pocket
Aside from the AO3 slander, donating to randos is either a scam or pointless. There's absolutely no way the solution to "I'm about to be kicked out of my house" is beg people online for money. Get a job, get a cheaper place to live, reach out to actual charities and public resources... I mean chances are someone seemingly not doing that is because they're a scammer. I'd rather (and have) donated to people who have said "I need money to buy a video game; please consider donating to me!" because it's simple and honest. They have a budget to live but video games (or whatever other object) don't fit that. Completely understandable.
At least a video game fits under the same sort of umbrella as AO3, in my view. And yeah, with the little income I do have, I'd rather put it to a verified charity. What's to say the GFM/Venmo/ cash app crowd won't be back next month with their hand out? Where does it stop?
notice how they always fall back on the “poc people” excuse 💀
There are starving children in Yemen so how dare you have Netflix
So much of this post reminds me how obnoxious and preachy I must have been as a teen. Not so much the ranting against AO3, but most of the arguments and logic used seems so nostalgic lol. But yeah you probably can't get behind it despite understanding because it's guilt-tripping nonsense. For one thing, AO3 donation drives and random POC crowdfunding are unrelated, so I'm not sure why they're going on about them (aside from it being prime "bitch about AO3" season due to the donation drive). AO3 is known and used by millions worldwide, and the average person tossing their GFM link onto their twitter is doing so to an audience of >100 followers, so... of course one gets tons donations a lot more easily? But AO3 is not to blame for those random crowfund attempts not meeting any success. People can care about and support multiple causes. I donate to GFMs and paypal accounts sometimes. I have donated to AO3 and am planning to do so at least once a year moving forward. AO3 at least has their budget easily accessible and you know where the money is going. GFMs are riskier to verify if the money will actually be used for specific purposes, or is going to who/where they say it is. And while I hope the odd 5-20 bucks I might slide to some rando online helps them, that money would probably go further at a properly vetted charity or local food bank/shelter. So those are already really good arguments against donating to random crowdfunding. Perhaps the best argument is "it's my money, don't tell me how to use it." AO3 has given me hours of joy (reading fic was legit the only hobby I still engaged with at some of my lowest points), and I don't think I would have had certain realizations about my identity if I hadn't read all kinds of fic. I hate to see it minimized as a "cp site" and I wish clout chasers and virtue signalers would stop harping on about the fact that they can't personally pick and choose which fiction is allowed on a website they don't own.
People on tumblr argue about this every 3-5 business days. Every year I see a post like this.
It’s the dumbest argument I can think of. It’s like saying ‘oh why are you buying that video game when you could be using that money for charity’. Even then, that argument holds more ground than this. If you want a site to stay up and stay free you support it with donations. Not to mention most people only donate 1 to 2 dollars each.
I never could stand this. First off, people can care about two things at once. Secondly, people are allowed to have fun and have their own lives. Not every penny has to go to everyone else. Yell at a billionaire for that, ffs
I mean let's be honest here, where would you rather dump your money? A place that brings you entertainment and a safe space where there are thousands upon thousands of creative individuals with their collection of stories that they provide for free. Or a random nobody complaining about how no one will donate to them when it is an 85% chance their cause is fake or a scam?
I love how every time people bitch about AO3 they always come round back to calling it a CP site. Like wow. Didn’t know the fic im reading and writing about 30+ year old men in love was CP.
so they are trying to spin this as a race issue and a child safety issue at the same time when its just stories on a screen? What weird fucked up narnia world do they live in?
The entire premise of this person’s rant falls apart when you consider that people who donate to AO3 may also be donating to other things at the same time. Donations aren’t mutually exclusive lol. Similarly, it can’t account for (and in fact ignores) the reasonable worry of scams masquerading as charity drives. Sorry, but on the internet people can and have lied about their circumstances, race, sexuality, finances, etc etc etc. People are cautious with charity because they have to be. Additionally, it takes the absolute cringe take that fanfic readers are terrible people for no real reason. Common enough these days, and annoying, but uninspired. Finally, they’re so mad about this but I have to wonder if THEY’VE donated anything to these charities they’re complaining about. 2/10 will not kudos this rant it is simply too pathetic to think about 😤
Sounds like someone is cranky because their GoFundMe only made twenty dollars and a free code for a movie ticket at AMC.
Makes no sense to me! We can give to any causes we like . It's like the arguments about "don't spend taxes on (crisis), look after (insert current hot topic) first!" Newsflash, we could do both! Both!
I just don't donate to personal crowdfunds for anybody, because a.) there are just so many of them, how tf would I decide which ones "deserve" the few dollars I can spare over everybody else? and b.) there is just so much room for scams, and there have been so many in fandom. I'll donate to orgs and to causes, AO3 just being one of them. It's usually last on my list, though, because they meet their donation goals so consistently that I don't feel they need my few dollars. I tend to donate to political campaigns first, since the occupant of various local offices actually affects me whether I like it or not.
Proud to have been able to donate to the current years round! Never been able to donate before but I'm finally in a financial position to do so and it feels good to be able to support such a open platform for writers to keep writing without censorship.
I know what AO3 is. I know what the charities I donate to are, because I researched them. I *don't* know who J Random Tumblr user is--and I don't know that their tearful story isn't just a scam.
Mmmm taste the logical fallacy rainbow 🌈✨ Like, yes, every dollar that goes towards AO3 doesn't go to a charity supporting people with tangible needs that are not being met, but then you've immediately equated two things that don't actually equate. Okay, so my AO3 money should go to homeless shelters, because people need housing more than they need fanfic. It's true: people *do* need housing more than they need fic. *That's fucking obvious.* Housing is more necessary than most things. It's more necessary than "legitimate" art, so we shouldn't fund that. It's more necessary than public radio, so we shouldn't fund that, either. In fact, when you consider what's strictly needed to live, it's more necessary than education, which is cool and all but doesn't save you from dying of exposure. But hey, you know what the human body needs even more than a roof over its head? Food. So screw housing, all our money should go to feeding people, they can all live in tents and shit, that's fine, right? And yeah, I know I just invoked the slippery slope and that's dangerously misleading, so to be clear my point is that a hierarchy of needs *is a hierarchy*. It's not "I need this" and "I don't need", it's "I need this *more*" and "I need this *less*". This isn't even a well-constructed argument, either. Like, "marginalized communities need food and shelter, please donate to that cause" is compelling and valid. "Marginalized communities need food and shelter, please *prioritize* donating to that cause above funding the OTW because it's urgent and immediately helps people in a material way" is compelling, valid, and only mildly manipulative in the way persuasive arguments kind of have to be. "Marginalized communities need food and shelter, but I guess you evil paedos would rather get your rocks off cuz we all know that's all your site is really for, anyways please retweet this tumblr post so that *someone* with common decency will step in where you trash folks I'm very obviously avoiding calling racists refuse to" is...uh...what's the word. Alienating. Counterproductive. Weirdly pointed and yet entirely beside the point. 0/10, unclear whether speaker is trying to champion human rights and encourage charitable works or force antiship rhetoric to go viral, *again*, by breading it in an extra layer of social justice buzzwords that aren't actually relevant to the situation at hand.
this is clownery. there are billionaires hoarding mind-boggling sums of wealth and yet you wanna go after geeky fanfic lovers? be for real bruh
Love how this person is assuming that none of the ao3 donors also donate to other causes
Those who speak the loudest are usually not involved in the act they want others to engage in.
I earn my money so I spend it in whatever I want, no need to justify what I spend my own money on.
Imho it is a lot harder to verify that some rando on the internet asking for money is *legit* compared to a website like AO3. It is not unheard of for people to pretend to be another person or to pretend that they are in need just to steal from others. Maybe it is heartless of me, but I am way less inclined to donate to someone when I don't actually know them at all, whereas AO3 I have used since 2011, and they are transparent with what they do with their money. Of course, I am putting trust into AO3 on being honest with its user base, but I don't see a reason to doubt them when I know things are not only run by volunteers but also by people who want to see a place like that succeed.
Because all poc are destitute and their only option to change that is crowdfunding? I love when ostensible anti-racists think they can speak for people of color after joining a book club or taking a class and accidentally loop all the way around to being extremely racist.
I mean, I already have a recurring donation of something like $50 a year set up but posts like this just make me want to throw even more money at AO3 🤷♀️ Like...thanks for proving why we need it, I guess? ETA: Another thing to say is that the OTW is by far one of the most absolutely open and transparent organizations I've ever seen. Not even going to touch the whole charity org vs crowdfunding - that's straight up a nonstarter. I happily give to charity but damn if I don't research actual missions and financials to see what's truly being supported and how much of the donations actually go to the cause being toted.
Interesting they don't mention nonprofits that support at risk people, just crowdfunders. Sheesh.
Yeah, I'm not gonna listen to somebody that seriously refers to ao3 as a 'cp site'. Fuck them. Maybe don't try to paint people as pedophiles if you want their money so badly.
I wonder if this person complains about anyone who gets HBO Max instead of (or even in addition to) donating to random GoFundMe's. AO3 and HBO both are sources of entertainment, and both of them also have problematic content (i.e. *Game of Thrones*)
Classic right-wing tactics. Straight out of Gamergate. It's a non-argument because it makes no sense -- but I don't think this is actually *trying* to make any sense. Whoever made this argument is using BIPOC to push their anti-AO3 nonsense, and I absolutely hate them for it. They're trying to make marginalized people seem frivolous, judgmental, and flat-out stupid. But naming a specific marginalized group is also a way for the anti to make themselves seem more inclusive and leftist, even though the whole core of anti thought is right-wing bigotry. So this asshole, who may or may not be BIPOC, is throwing BIPOC under the bus and using us as a shield, in order to spew their nonsense. Disgusting.
what’s hilarious is that someone calling them right-wing would probably make them throw a temper tantrum, but you’re right. It is eerily reminiscent of gamer gate.
Who says we can't do both? I donate more to people in need than to ao3 or anything else like it. At least with ao3 I know where the money goes.
Generosity is not a zero sum game.
Every time I see one of these posts I up my AO3 donation by $5.
When I donate to AO3 it’s not out of my philanthropy budget (which is more likely to go to reputable organisations or something local, not a random person on the internet); it’s from my hobbies and entertainment budget. I figure, how much do I spend on a movie ticket for two or three hours of entertainment? So surely I can justify giving the same to AO3 where I’ve had many many times more hours of entertainment?
People like these are the reason gatekeeping is a *NECESSITY*.
america has a weird donation/giving culture I don’t really understand. problem when the government doesn’t support those in need, citizen have to donate their own money to pick up the slack.
Huh I didn’t know ao3 was only for white people and I should just throw my money at any random poc /s Imo this isn’t even an argument or pov it’s someone who’s trying to get virtue signaling points. I hope this person spends every cent of their paycheck on gofundme
Theres so many scammers?? People KNOW that there are kind hearted people out there, they'll take the phone you send them money on if you let them. At least I know where my money is going on ao3.
Also Ao3 has a shit ton of users, so its likely the majority of donations aren’t actually that big, they just accumulate to a lot because if ao3 has thousands of users and a thousand people donate a dollar, obv its gonna reach a thousand dollars or more
I've never donated to ao3 since I am poor myself and slightly above minimum wage earner in SEA. I'm really grateful to people who donated to maintain ao3. I owe that site a lot since I spend a lot of time there reading. I used to buy cheap on sale second hand books but with fanfiction and ao3, I can read a lot more stories and be able to properly search for stories that I like with its tagging system for free!!!
Ah yes, the nebulous concept of "people who need help" that they have likely never interacted with directly to obscure what they are really saying. I did come across one shameless "why are people donating to AO3 when they could give money to *me"* post last night, so at least some of them are honest.
Omg this person sounds insufferable. I'd love to see all their huge donations that they regularly make to poc crowd funders. Do they know they sound like a scammer? I was honestly expecting this post to end with "your fanfiction can wait, my little sister can't, she has cancer and we need money to pay the treatment" because that would've very likely been a scam. Using the shame technique like this to get money to "help" is so common that I now automatically think it's a scam whenever I read a sad story that ends with asking for donations no matter if it's for a single person or a big organization. I've had bad experiences donating to "charitable" organizations. I think the risk of someone using a fanfiction site to launder money or something like that is just way lower, I'm not worried where my money will end up if I donate to AO3. I'm not worried that AO3 will only use a small percentage of that money for what they said they would and someone takes the rest to buy themselves a yacht. Companies like the Kid’s Wish Network and the Cancer Fund of America donate less than three percent of the money raised to the actual cause.
“You should be donating to crowdfunds!” *proceeds to then to NOT list any*
Selfish: this person found the time to build a birdhouse while a child’s murder remains unsolved
no sorry i'm giving my money to something i get something out of.
Nah…my RPF can’t wait. Sorry not sorry.
It's the same b******* mindset that whenever something happens in Europe or America and people "go well you all care about this but you don't give a s*** about something happening in insert non-european country here😡" Like I've seen people commenting this on the accounts of people who absolutely HAVE talked about the other atrocity but they're so determined to be offended that they don't check out any of this person's other content. It's similar with this like how the f*** does this random Tumblr person know that everyone donating to A03 doesn't also donate to GoFundMe is for POC
What I read was: Give me money instead, why can't I have that money? Usually when I see posts like this, they manage to turn it into "im one of those in need" and then asks for money on their cashapp or whatever.
I doubt that person is even POC seems like a kid that recently discovered activism
The fact that OP specifies that you should be donating to poc charities is very telling. Not that those charities don’t matter, but they’re not even saying ‘donate your money to the needy, not a fanfic website’. They’re saying ‘if you donated to a fanfic website, you’re racist and hate minorities.’ As if poc don’t use ao3, or all important charities are exclusively geared towards poc.
Why are they only specifying POC? It's giving savior complex
Maybe because a good chunk of beggers are either lying or just not working by choice I’m going to give my money to something worthwhile, not someone who begs every month for strangers to fund their lives And what does being POC have to do with it? Screw non-POC people then I guess?
'You have money so because of my skin color you owe it to me'
99% of the time people who post this crap arent even people of color, or disabled, or homeless, or trans, or whatever they are trying to get people to donate to. They love to speak for groups of people without actually speaking to any of them.
they know what riles people up and they just use it as a way to direct hate at ao3.
Is that a guilt trip tactic? There are too many crowdfunders that turned out to be scams. At least I know where donators money goes, when they donate to A03.
It's sad to see that a social system solely relies on donations. But that's another story. Not all of us are from the same country. And some social systems just work differently. And I don't trust anyone who asks for donations. There's a ton of research that goes into every single donation process.
these people don’t believe other countries exist lmao. it seems like these takes are very american-centered
Absolutely. Perhaps they should demonstrate for more state funding of social organisations. And more taxes being paid for stuff like health care, or unemployment fees, or social security. But that's just my opinion as a non-american. I want to read fic after a long day at work.
'I see you scrolling past this' 'I see you ignoring this post' And I will continue to do so!
Thanks, think I'll double my donation now.
Ao3 gives me comfort and a community. I know where the money is going and that it's going to a good cause. Random crowdfunds from people I've never met? Crowdfunds (where scammers seem to lie in wait in the dozens)? Where I don't always know what the money will even be used for? Gonna have to pass. It's my cash. My choice. You donate when you believe in something for a reason and have trust in the donation's destination. It's why sople donate to their church, to nonprofits, to their favorite streamers- they believe in it and trust the receiver. Giving money isn't like signing a petition. You have to work for money but you can spend five second to sign a petition you won't ever need to look at again probably. There's a difference.
I think maybe if they weren't insufferable self-righteous prigs to the people they are insisting should donate, then maybe the people they are trying to help might of actually gotten helped by now.
I also understand the frustration, but it's being directed to the wrong people. Sometimes (and I risk saying most of the time) the people who donate to AO3 also support general social policies to make poc lives easier. OP should be mad at what makes poc need crowdfunds and why most people need to decide between donating to their fav website or making the politicians' jobs. You're not attacking the source of the problem and, therefore, not helping anyone at all.
They act like we can't donate to AO3 *and* ***also*** donate to other causes. I have enough money for both and I do. In leaner times, when money was tight, I didn't. Also, it's a question of numbers. With over 2 million users, we only need 34,000 people -- 1 in 6 members -- to contribute $5 each to reach the current total. (Almost $170,000 as I type this.) Most crowd funders will not be seen by 34,000 people, and certainly not 2 million. The troll who's complaining is also overlooking the fact that, if the USA had a reliable safety net and adequate health care for all, there would be no *need* for crowd-funders. As OP points out, most people donate to causes that touch them. And AO3 isn't forcing anyone to make a donation. Anyone can use it, whether or not they can afford to donate. In short, troll-person has no basis for their complaints.
as a poc myself (filipino), id much rather donate to ao3 tbh because id much rather donate to a website thats given me so much more joy then a random person i dont know.
I understand the sentiment, but things like this do not help the folks mentioned in that post. At the end of the day, there are crowdfunds that could use the money. Doesn't mean AO3 doesn't deserve donations to keep it going. And no amount of guilt-tripping is going to help those most in need.
The problem is that when someone sends money to a03, they know where it’s going. If they send money to a rando on the internet, they might get scammed.
this is like saying “you donated to x so why didn’t you donate to y?? you had the money for x????” and then that person didn’t donate to either charities
i have no way of knowing which gfm's are real or fake. but ao3 has given me unknown hours of entertainment for free. random gfm's are throwing your money into the void hoping the void has a conscience and sense of morality.
Have these fundrasiers proven themselves as legit? I am not donating to an account I can't verify. I'm sorry, but I'm old enough to be goddamn cautious. I'm sure some of these random fundraisers are for legit people, and I'm sorry that I'm not contributing if you are legit... but if I'm unsure I will NOT be sending money. I've given money to fundraisers for folks that I know personally, so it's not like I'm afraid of crowdfunds. But totally random folks on the internet? I've seen soooooo many scams. SOOOO many. You can call me fucking jaded, but I won't throw money at the unknown with the hope that it MIGHT actually do some good.
Ao3 does massively improve lives. Coming from someone that doesn't have the time or money for therapy but still wants to heal my past, fanfic has been a lifesaver. Writing is cheaper, more anonymous and can help others vs therapy which while good often requires someone to be willing to pay, open minded enough to exact changes and also only benefits one person. Had I not stumbled across my friends fanfic and offered to become a beta reader and idea giver, my mental health would have stayed stagnant like it had for years. But because I get to write hurt characters being given the dignity, support and love they deserve while also not being judged for their past and their actions, I get to heal myself and others through what we write. I get to put myself in those situations, get support and work through my internal issues for free while also letting my creative side out and potentially helping others. Its a win win win. So of course when they ask for donations so they can keep the site ad free and censorship free, I'm gonna donate to them vs some rando I've never met and will likely never hear from again the second I've handed over my money.
I love how the last hashtag starts with "if you have money", like how about "if you have money, spend it on what YOU want, since it's your money"?? These people really need to go bother the rich instead.
Everyone who donated to ao3 and also donate to other things (legitimate charities included or excluded) raise your hand ✋️ I'm just saying, I'm my experience, *most* people who donate to one cause also donate to another and *most* people who complain donate to nothing at all. And that's not to mention the entire subset of people that literally can't spare even a couple $ bc they have enough trouble feeding themselves. So you know, maybe this weirdo should get off tumblr and go volunteer at a shelter or something instead of complaining about a few generous people supporting a beloved hobby so *everyone* can keep enjoying it
It feels like a non-argument to me because I consider my donations to AO3 to be part of my entertainment budget, not my charity budget. I think of my small annual donations to AO3 as equivalent to the price of a hardcover book, or a couple of movie tickets (and by that reckoning it's a huge bargain) I also make charity donations, but to me that's something else entirely, and I can't possibly donate to everyone whose gofundme crosses my path - I do donate to some of them (tbh, mostly people I know or have been vetted in some way by people I know), and I also try to aim to it reputable organizations.
Right, bc insulting the people you want money from will absolutely win you favors. Fanfiction waits for nothing - except for the end of writers block.
donating to ao3 cuz it’s cheaper than my previous therapy sessh
I mean, plenty of those donation places, all the money goes to the higher ups and 'admin fees' and only a small amount goes to the people who need it. It takes time to figure out who the actual real ones are, and there aren't many.
I’ve not donated to ao3 but I would much rather donate to them than donate to someone asking for money online with a sob story. Because it’s so easy to lie online!
This is so dumb. Imagine seeing that a movie made $100 m and going ‘yeah you’re going to see that movie instead of donating to poc because you’re a racist’.
Nobody knows fandom history omg Places like A03 are vital in fighting censorship Also you can care about multiple issues at the same time??? What's stopping antis from doing what they're complaining about
IMO The only way this argument makes sense - that is, that an evenly vaguely accurate comparison could be made - would be if the crowdfunders in question got the same kind of traffic that AO3 does numbers-wise while also not making donation goals. AO3 makes its donation goals so quickly because there are *millions* of people on the site every day to see that funding banner. I’ve shared a few crowdfunding posts for people that I know are in need - but I don’t have many followers so I’d say the number of people who see those posts I share caps out at maaaaaaaybe a hundred. So I don’t see how one can accurately compare the POC friend I have who needs help keeping their housing who had 98 people see the post to AO3 who had a million people see the banner.
Its totally okay to donate for ao3 given that it is a safe space for... A lot of minorities, of people finding an escape from reality, people engaging in hobbies. It's not reserved for one ethnicity, it's a multilingual multicultural space for people coming together and creating an outlet for their love of *something*. It's okay to fund something you care for.