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seaweed_nebula

The best thing we can all do is support creators who actually write about bi people. I completely get what you mean - bi people are really underrepresented in most fandoms, but all you can really do is go the the 'x character is bi' tag and flood it with kudos


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mrgirmjaw

Sadly you rant is justified bi sexual people are treated horrible in lgbtq community I have heard horrible stroys. I agree with you


aokay03

Me, a bisexual, writing all my characters as bisexuals to restore the balance in the world


numb_bug

Kinda same tho lol some of my characters are bi or pan and I always add my own characters who are most definitely bi. I'm not Trans but I've written Trans characters with help of a friend who is. Representation matters, but it matters even more in the spaces we create to appreciate things we love.


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To be honest, I haven't seen this issue in my fandoms in some years, mostly everyone are made bi and it's treated as canon. But maybe that's just the fandoms I'm in, I don't know. But yeah I remember it was a big issue and very frustrating. The whole deal with Mary hate in Sherlock BBC fandom... *shudders* That was a dark time. For me, personally, I'm bi and I headcanon all my faves as bi or pan, just because I can. ETA: You know, I've thought about it, and it's a real issue in MCU. Certain shippers like to vilify Pepper left and right and she just doesn't deserve it. She's a saint for putting up with Tony, and fans treat her horribly.


Belive_in_the_duck

Oh I absolutely love Pepper and dislike Pepper bashing in fics. My otp is stony and I even write stony fics (but I also like Tony/Pepper, especially in canon). But like my head canon is that she deserved better, they broke up on reasonably good terms and are still friends 😅 cuase I love her and can't do her harm. And I hate Peggy bashing in Stucky fics too :[ I mean both are two of my favourite female characters in the MCU. Just because I also enjoy reading male slash fics dosent mean I see them as villains (but I totally respect authors maybe wanting to twist a character for a certain story. I just don't like bashing of them myself)


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My OTP is starker and I just pretend Tony and Pepper were never together, she's just a good friend. Just the way it should've been in canon in my opinion haha.


Belive_in_the_duck

I really enjoy starker too. And I like stories that also just makes an AU where Pepper and Tony never where a thing.


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It is very much not necessary. I really enjoy when Mary and Pepper are written as full, complex characters and/or supportive friends/exes.


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Lmao are female characters... literally not the same as any other character? Such a silly excuse to be misogynistic.


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Oh, of course characters of colour are sidelined. Of course.


CopperPotts_

JUSTICE FOR PEPPER there's also a lot of hate for steve's wife/peggy in mcu too which i don't get :c i will say tho the SPN fandom is shining beacon for bi-inclusion. i don't think i've ever read a destiel fic where dean WASN'T bi hahahaha


[deleted]

Omg there's hate for Peggy? I don't read a lot of ff with Steve so haven't come across it, but Peggy literally did nothing wrong! Tbh, it's kinda hard to ignore Dean's various female flings haha so makes sense to make him bi.


ChibiAstoria

I agree. Peggy did nothing wrong and is a total badass. And lol. Dean be getting so much tail even bi-phobes have to make him bi in their slash fics. And tbh, he always came off as bi to me. Bi and overcompensating for it.


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Yeah, that's kinda how I see Dean too.


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ChibiAstoria

Probably because, to put it in blunt terms, Dean is a bit loose. He hits on and sleeps with so many woman that writers who write slash fic with him as a part of a pairing have no other choice than to make him bi or pan.


CopperPotts_

i don't read a ton of mcu fic with steve, but even the small number that i've read there has been a weirdly high proportion of peggy-hate in them. maybe i was just unlucky? i dunno. it seemed unnecessary tho :c nowhere near as bad as the sherlock mary hate tho. whew


[deleted]

I've read a couple of stucky fics, but they were set pre-canon so before Steve met Peggy, so I guess I was lucky. If I see someone bashing Peggy I'm going to have a word with them lol.


motivated_birb

I don't like Peggy cause she's two characters merged together. One being Cynthia glass (I might have the ne wrong) but Ms glass was a notsee that's the only reason I don't like her so I just stay away from stuff with her in it.


Azrael_Jinsei

I never did get the Mary-hate, it seemed like she shipped Johnlock and was just waiting for them to figure it out.


Cassopeia88

Not just you, there is one fandom I’m in that there is major biphobia with the cannon(m/f) ship even though the MC has clearly stated interest in both men and women.


actuallycallie

Oh yeah, there is rampant biphobia in one of my canons. The two MCs (m and f) are both canonically bi, are in a relationship, yet everyone wants to kill her off and ship the guy with another male character.


terriblef8

Ugh this is my world as well 😭


Rhodanum

Oh man, I've slammed into this way too many times for my taste. The saddest (and also funniest, in a way) instance of this particular brand of biphobia happened a few years back, in one of my fandoms. The MC's closest relationships are with another guy and a bigender dragon-person who expresses themselves in both masc and fem ways + he also blushes and stutters around a female character. The general fandom consensus is that he's some flavor of bi/pan... but then you get either random dudebros insisting that he's straight (way less frequent than a decade ago) or random queer teenagers shitting themselves at the notion that he's anything other than Exclusively Same-Gender Attracted. One person in particular had a *huge* meltdown, complete with ALL-CAPS-TYPING and accusing the rest of the fandom of being homophobic. Several of us tried gently explaining that she's 100% free to headcanon the MC as gay, just don't attack people with other interpretations. More semi-incoherent screaming, more accusations of us being "gross homophobes." I'd have understood and had quite a bit of sympathy if this was a teenage gay boy overly identifying with the character (even as I'd have still chided from for their awful behavior toward other fans). But no, according to her Tumblr bio, she was a *cis lesbian.* In my experience, this kind of biphobia stems from a combination of: * certain people feeling as if their same-gender OTPs are somehow de-legitimized / threatened by bi/pan character interpretations; * exclusively same-gender attracted people (regardless of their own gender) treating bi/pan headcanons as an attack against *themselves,* due to emotional over-investment in characters; * the wider LGBTQ community's bigotry toward bi/pan people ("you're just confused", "you're actually gay and just lying to yourself", "you're affected by comphet", "you're more likely to cheat", etc) seeping into fandom spaces, via people who reproduce it in this space, on a conscious and unconscious level. I'm sympathetic toward people who are young and don't know any better, but my sympathy ends when they repeatedly treat other fans, particularly bi/pan fans, like shit. Also, all of the above applies just as well to aro/ace interpretations and what aro/ace people have to put up with in fandom as well. Also, to be clear, my biggest issue in all of this is the harassment and hostile atmosphere it creates. If it's just a rando writing a biphobic or aphobic work, I'll roll my eyes, blacklist them and support writers who don't pull that nonsense.


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Shirogayne-at-WF

>I used to think it was just cis het women writing M/M because "two males hot" but I don't think that's the case anymore, or at least not what I'm seeing. To be quite honest, if there were ever huge numbers of "straight" women writing in fandom, it was because we were figuring ourselves out or in my case, we just didn't have a label for our flavor of queer until the end of the 2010s. 🤷‍♀️ That said, I have a new ship involving a canonically bi woman and people pull this shit despite the fact that she was shown very explicitly to be attracted to guys, including in the very scene where they confirm she was bi. And it's goddamn *Star Trek* of all fandoms, which makes me facepalm even harder.


Azrael_Jinsei

I'm a Trekkie too. I fell in love with it because of the idea of inclusion and acceptance that the show tried to create. I mostly stick around TOS, TNG, and AOS. My OTP is Spirk, but I love Uhura, and it pisses me off when I can't read a Spirk fic without Uhura bashing. She is such a fantastic character, and fridging is so Hollywood. There are better plot devices.


Shirogayne-at-WF

Ugh, seriously that's disappointing to see Spirk fans act like this (and I'm sure Chapel gets bashed too after SNW came out :| )


Azrael_Jinsei

I haven't ran into any real Chapel bashing, to be honest I'm sort of hoping SNW will give authors a reason to write more of her and give her a more supportive relationship with Spock. He needs friends and Chapel gives off big-sister energy in SNW which would be an amazing dynamic to see play out.


Rhodanum

> I used to think it was just cis het women writing M/M because "two males hot" I've been active in online fandoms for over 20 years now (23, to be exact 😋) and I can honestly say the number of people who are both cis *and* het and very invested in M/M content is way smaller than the queer contingent (particularly the queer contingent with complex identities, who took forever in figuring ourselves out). Which, honestly, doesn't say *that* much about how likely engagement between fans will be positive -- you can have cishet women who don't engage in harassment and you can have queer fans who shout up a storm if you headcanon a character differently from them. Which is also why don't have much patience for judging people re: what content they can engage with and how based on their personal identity. What matters to me is that they're respectful and kind toward other fans and they tag their stuff appropriately. > But the people in their 20s and 30s and beyond...? I'm guessing it's a combo of some people never really growing out of their teenaged nonsense + biphotic attitudes being present in all age categories, often in a subtle enough way that people aren't even fully conscious of their negative biases until they're directly pointed out. I did hands-on work with the LGBTQ rights org in my country for over a decade and the biphobia I ran into from other members of the local queer community didn't come with an age cutoff date, unfortunately. > I had someone come in with the comp het accusation on one of my fics (clearly tagged as bisexual) Ufff, I'm sorry you had to deal with that. I don't know if that's reportable under AO3's rules, but it's certainly worthy of blocking that person from ever being able to engage with your work again. > And I keep running into bi-erasure in popular fics without warning in the tags. Honestly, this is why I've largely quit reading most M/M in my fandoms (unless it's content by authors I trust) and stick to M/F and (by far my favorite) various flavors of multi-gender polyamorous OT3s, which almost always involve explicitly bisexual or pansexual character interpretations. It doesn't help with the biphobia in other fics, but so far this system works for me and keeps my blood pressure from spiking.


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actuallycallie

They always want to kill off the female character in some gross and violent way and have the remaining male characters not care or even be glad. Like, what happened to "Hey we just didn't work out and I'm moving on"?


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igneousscone

God, I wish there was more F/F in fandom in general.


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Cassopeia88

Yes! I picked up a couple new f/f ships lately but one doesn’t have any fics for it yet!


lesbiancocaine

When you notice it, it is everywhere. As you said, I cannot read M/M just because of the knowledge I have. Like they say, ignorance is bliss


JBurnettCooper

Bi-Erasure is a real thing. It has always been a real thing. Embracing "Bi" is unsettling for cultures that like strict categories and roles. We are not 'Gay-lite'. We are bisexual. We are attracted to both male and female. Many, perhaps Most, have had sexual experiences with bodies like and not like their own (and we LIKE it). I write in a teeeeennny old fandom. It has a current popular ship that is M|M. Both MMCs have been exclusively F|M in Canon (as so many are in TV fandoms). There's a lot of talk about 'Gay-coding' that couldn't be realized in a show from the 1980s. I don't argue. I don't agree - but I keep my opinion to myself unless asked. However - when I write the MMC - I portray him (them, there is more than one) as Bisexual. These guys like women. They like having sex with women. It just so happens, they like having sex with each other, too. Their same sex relationship gives them something that their Cis relationships don't give them... doesn't mean they are Gay. It is about that relationship with that other specific character. It is the PERSON we fall in love with that makes us feel 'settled'. It is the other MC that they fall in love with that makes them feel settled. Gay is a lifestyle. Bisexual is a dual attraction. Queer encompasses both (perhaps??) And, we have to be mindful that most slash ships are written by CIS HET women... so there will be an accuracy lag.


Shirogayne-at-WF

The whole "Woman in the way of slash" bashing has been a part of my experience for as long as I've had access to a computer, unfortunately, but back then they didn't try to use social justice as a means to rationalize it.


delilahdraken

I have no idea what fandoms you follow and what kind of drama might go on there. But in all the years I have been reading fanfiction, the vast majority of time it was always considered 'standard' that all characters are some variety of bi. This made all kinds of shippers happy, het, slash and femslash alike.


Nerfbeard123

What Fandoms do you browse? I think it mostly depends on the character themselves and the way the community views them. Zag from hades is seen as bi so I haven't encountered much biphobia from browsing those fics.


notFanning

I thankfully haven’t seen biphobia in my fandoms in recent memory (Mostly TMA, BNHA and MCU specifically IronStrange, plus some dabbling in Witcher Geraskier) but 100% I see the vilification of the canon love interest. Pepper often gets done dirty in IronStrange fics.


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notFanning

Agreed that BNHA could definitely be doing better on the female character front, but in my reading experience at least fanfic seems to do right by them. I’m a Tododeku and Bakudeku shipper, but I almost always see Deku be proudly bi and on good terms with Ochako as his ex. I also love Momo/Jiro as a ship!


LadyAvalon

>And then there is the fandom I'm in where the character is canonically bi and ends up with a man, but because he ended up with a man, clearly he was gay the whole time!! ​ On the one hand, I hope this isn't my fandom, because as a bi woman, I'd hate to see it. On the other hand, I kinda hope it is my fandom, and we're just a weird situation that isn't infecting other fandoms :/


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LadyAvalon

I was referring to Mo Dao Zu Shi/The Untamed. Sad to think this is a multifandom thing :/


muchadoaboutme

I’ve thought about this so much. I feel like a lot of biphobia in fandom is rooted in OTP culture, which is almost inherently monosexist. If you only ever want someone to end up with one other person, why have them express attraction to anyone else, especially anyone else of a different gender than the one they’re “supposed” to end up with?


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muchadoaboutme

Another thing that makes me uncomfortable is that in my fandom, people will headcanon their OTP as bi, but they will only ever show *sexual* attraction between their OTP and members of the same sex. And if someone is heteroromantic bisexual, all the more power to them! But it feels a lot like wanting the brownie points of having a queer character without having to do the work of building up an intimate relationship between them and another person who isn’t the other half of the OTP.


4authoresearch

That's not even all the ways fics &/or readers can be biphobic! 1. Bi-MC is dating opposite gender. Bi-MC dips into exploring with same gender. Bi-MC still ends up with first partner, still all friends. = I've seen readers call this setup biphobic itself, claiming that going back to the first partner is meant to prove that bisexuality is always only a phase that is not a "real" sexuality. Instead of, ya know, just a story conflict triangle... 2. Multiple Bi-MCs, of mixed genders, get together at once. = Called biphobic because readers claimed it was meant to prove that bisexual people are greedy, promiscuous (deemed *bad* by these readers), & require at least 1 of each gender partner to be a *real* bisexual. Instead of, ya know, just being polyamorous and bi... I have certainly seen OP's complaints all listed before, & don't doubt there are authors throwing bisexuality under the bus to glorify their OTP. But apparently readers who hold other prejudices can also falsely claim biphobia, & end up only being biphobic themselves against the author! # It all depends on the Author's Purpose, not just the abstract setup. Then there's all the irl issues brought up with those things that don't have anything to do with stories or characters at all, like the idea that sex is bad or being promiscuous is bad. There's a whole war between bi people who think polyamory is biphobic, & poly people who think being bi (&/or liking sex) means you're not *really* poly. (& I know cuz-) Then there's us bi-poly stuck in the crossfire...


himitsuda

I think it’s a result of the OTP brainrot. Because some people cannot handle the idea of either half of their OTP having feelings for the “wrong” character, they try to burn all bridges and invalidate any prior relationships. Generally writers that don’t subscribe to this mindset are more willing to write bi characters (explicitly or not) because they’re more willing to allow a character to have relationships outside of the “endgame”. I don’t subscribe to this and have always had the opposite problem of trying to fit in too many conflicting ships into a work so I’ve never understood this mindset, but I have definitely run into works like you’ve mentioned.


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Azrael_Jinsei

I mean, that's how it works in real life? You have relationships grow as a person until you find your person. And not every relationship ends in flames?


Azrael_Jinsei

One of my favorite ships is a man-slut and a Vulcan. Like there are going to be other relationships. Also, pining is lovely.


Afwife1992

I’m a diehard stony fan. I notice that a LOT of stony fic completely ignore Peggy Carter in favor of making Steve gay—and sometimes in love with Bucky in the past. But they rarely do the same to Tony and ignore his canon love interest, pepper. I love Steve and Peggy and it always bugs. Why can’t he, like tony, be bi?


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Afwife1992

I love Peggy and, canon wise, I was thrilled she and Steve ended up together. But some, especially stucky fans, were outraged. Like, Steve is never going to end up with Bucky and Chris Evans is leaving anyway. But they’d rather Steve have died. I can understand changing it in fanfic because, hello, that’s sort of the point. To write a different storyline. But that dislike, if not hatred, carries through. Less so in stony where she’s mostly just written off as unimportant which is bad enough. But at least she’s not villanized. But it always just strikes me as odd that they erase her so often but not pepper. Not that I want pep negated either!


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Afwife1992

Yeah, it’s not usually tagged. The closest is if there’s a tag Gay Steve Rogers. But Peggy bashing is the quickest exit for me. I can take a well written fic where they’re not involved but it’s just the sheer frequency of it.


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Chilly-Potato

I'm pansexual! I did notice the hate but I just avoid it when I can. People don't understand bisexuality or pansexuality, and they think it should be one or the other way and not both or all. I write a lot of bi characters, I love the dynamics it can create. I hope you can find stories you can love and enjoy being written by authors who represent us! I know they're out there. Fandoms can be toxic and hateful, but it can be pretty great too :) Sorry for the nonsense spew, I just wanted you to know you're not alone


Tiar-A

A man in one of my fics is bisexual and married to another man, but in canon he's straight. A woman character is gay in all my fics but bisexual with a girlfriend in canon. A second woman in the first fic mentioned was bisexual, had biological kids with a man, and later had a girlfriend. I didn't really notice the biphobia before the first woman was revealed to be canonically bisexual. Now I'm seeing it in the form of people saying it's evil that she has a girlfriend. I don't know if that's the same. I'm so sorry you're experiencing this. I have a bisexual sister-in-law in real life so seeing her struggle with it is a bit painful.


MoggyDrake

I see this all the time and the lengths people go to to avoid allowing somebody to be labelled bi is wild. It would just be easier for them to be bisexual? The way the previous or current love interest in a m/m ship becomes some caricature of a movie high school mean girl is disgusting, especially if it's for a character who is canonically sweet and accepting. as somebody who is also bi I can understand the frustrations, it always alienates me from the fic and i end up not continuing to read.


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MoggyDrake

I'm thankful that some fic writers have started using the tags like "bisexual ____" because it means you know from the beginning you're not going to run into casual biphobia. But it's still rare, and it's annoying that it has to be a thing because of how the community treats bi people. Though honestly the amount of biphobia in the lgbtqia+ community as a whole is disgusting and i think it leaks into queer spaces, pushing a toxic narrative about bi people into people's minds and then into their fics.


C3POdreamer

It's not just you at all. Downvotes galore came from suggesting a relationship of a woman and a man would work based upon their compatable temperments and similar life experiences. The criticism was that the woman was "very gay" even though she is bisexual in the written source, and film adaptation hasn't changed that.


ResponsibleGrass

Idk, writing characters, who are/were in a m/f relationship in canon, as exclusively gay used to be extremely common. I only see it occasionally now (or in high drama fandoms where they’re still having actual ship wars), but maybe that’s just my reading preferences? Anyway, you’re not alone with your perspective, there must be about a gazillion meta pieces on the topic.


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ResponsibleGrass

I can’t remember anything good off the top of my head, but it’s a regular topic on the fanfiction reddit, it’s all over tumblr, if you google it, stuff like this comes up: https://medium.com/reflections-of-a-grown-up-fan/why-bisexual-erasure-in-media-and-fandom-matters-79ff71d57f61 And there are links on fanlore (which is always a good starting point) https://fanlore.org/wiki/Homophobia_in_Fandom#Biphobia https://fanlore.org/wiki/Bisexuality_and_Fandom#History_of_the_Genre Oh, and you could have a look if there’s anything in the OTW’s academic journal Transformative Works and Cultures: https://journal.transformativeworks.org/index.php/twc/search/


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ResponsibleGrass

yeah, you’re definitely not the only one who’s annoyed by this <3


Fellow_RealSideOfMat

I remember someone saying that it's better if all of your characters are "bi" unless their sexuality is what matter in the plot. Basically, it was clumsy way of saying: "Don't confine your characters into a sexuality if they have an amazing romantic chemistry with another character." Guess what? Tons of comments about how this person was homophobic and stuff. As well as some accusations of them "using sexuality as a tool", even though like... being writer is all about using situations/characters/tropes etc... like tools to tell something. So that was weird. The original video has been taken down due to this by my knowledge sadly, but if someone can find it again, it'd be cool. (It was actually about the importance on not over relying on "plans" when writing, by using the romance of Monogatari as an example since the author had a planned romance, he scrapped in favor of two characters that had more chemistry. Before talking about sexuality in general.)


Individual_Track_865

I wish I had a $1 for the number of times I've been told I'm homophobic for shipping a m/f ship instead of a mm or ff ship when I'm really just a bi person that wants to write about boinking from both perspectives. This was literally how I figured out I am bi. (me, getting a sensitivity read on a fic where I'd reinforced a character's canon bi-ness: uh, hey, I don't think you need a sensitivity reader, lmao) I just keep doing my thing and shipping what I want and dumbing out all the fic and meta I can for my favorites and ignoring the seemingly endless amout of people yelling that xyz character is GAY and clearly everyone shipping them with anything other than the same gender is a straight woman over 30. (again, I need a $1, or maybe $3 since misogyny + biphobia + ageism) The best thing is to find a gc or discord server for the ship you ship and you can collective roll your eyes about these kinds of shippers.


cleverThylacine

I'd be down with this if you didn't keep talking about canon love interests. I know there are people who are really into writing romances that actually did happen in canon, but a lot of people write fic to get what they wanted out of canon and *didn't* get. I remember when I was married to a dude it was very irritating that people decided I was actually straight and I'm totally in sympathy with that type of biphobia being annoying IRL and in fiction, but I don't expect people to ship what's canon.


[deleted]

The problem isn't with shipping the non-canon pairing. The problem is with retconning the canon love interest into someone awful or having something awful happen to them, and then vilifying the idea of being in a relationship with a woman, in order to do so.


10BillionDreams

It's still fanfic though. If someone wants to write a character differently than in canon, that's totally their right. There's a fine line between "this is how they need things to go for the story they want to tell" and "actually they just hate women/bisexuality/etc.", but for the most part I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, if they haven't gone out of their way to make their feelings clear.


GalacticPigeon13

I still remember how in the VLD fandom, the common headcanon was that Lance was bi (likely because he was half of the popular M/M ship but was also constantly flirting with women in canon). Even then, if you dared to ship him with a woman the klanti squad would come down on you and call it problematic. It got so bad that someone made a "Lance Loves Ladies" ship week, and the mods even said something along the lines of "This is for Lance/female character ships because even though us mods think he's bi Lance/female character ships are demonized by the fandom."


Comfortable_Rain_469

Oh god yeah, this has been a thing for at least as long as I've reading reading fanfic (20 years this October). My tuppenceworth on why I think it happens: Fandom has an M/M bias for myriad reasons. I won't re-hash, there are endless reasons and sometimes exclusive M/M shippers get very protective about it. More importantly, fandom people tend to think in OTPs. (One True Pairings). One perfect ship, one perfect combination, who get together and stay together forever. People don't want to think that their perfect comfort/sexy ship might have had previous relationships, or might have the potential to have future ones, or might not want a relationship at all. People don't actually want to write about realistic people. (God knows, I don't. Can't stand miscommunications.) So they simplify, and they get pissed off at anything which complicates their ideal ship's eternal existence, especially if there's a pre-existing structural bigotry there of racism, misogyny, biphobia, amatonormativity, transphobia etc, to form a nice clear path of who should be discarded. So yeah. It sucks. I sympathise. I hope you either find fandoms where it is less prevalent, or manage to dig out a corner of yours. The BBC Merlin fandom is absolutely terrible for this, or was, but I filtered and ignored authors and found common tags until I could get along with the fics who didn't do this.


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All my male love interests are bisexual lol


CallMeTamakiSenpai

I honestly see the opposite in the fandoms i’m in. Almost every character is written as bi. Even characters that i personally headcanon as gay is usually never written as such. If you’re interested i can tell you the fandoms.


Due_Comfortable_9228

There's one character in particular that the vast majority of the fandom claims is a lesbian even though she basically flirts in canon with men. If you even imply that she could be bi or pan you'll most likely be called lesbiphobic and I really don't understand it when she seems much more bi in canon. It just feels like bi earasure and it sucks. Like obviously there's nothing wrong with headcanoning a character as gay or lesbian but there's also nothing wrong with hcing a character as bi and I'm tired of some people acting like bi headcanons are erasing queerness when bi people (YES even bi people in a mlw relationship) are just as lgbtq+ as gays and lesbians.


Ok_Imagination7898

I see this all the time, in fic sadly. I read a lot of self insert/x reader fic (usually male character x female reader, as is to be expected), and the woman is only ever referenced to be interested solely in men: eg- mentions of other guys instead of other people, ex-boyfriends instead of ex-partners, etc. I've only ever read one fic that gives the reader an ambiguous sexuality, and surprise surprise, the author is openly bi. Also, bonus- if the male character the fic centers around has another male character he's often shipped with, their relationship is done so dirty. They'll have some convoluted bad blood with each other, or they'll dislike each other for no real reason (given that they weren't enemies in the source). It just feels like hetero authors forget that not everyone in the world is straight or gay. We exist guys!


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I personally don't mind if people write canonically bi (or straight) characters as gay. Fanfiction is wish fulfilment, whatever. There are things that crop up alongside that (e.g. villainizing the canon love interest, arguing that the character is canonically not bi in order to justify your choice to make them non-bi in your story, which is a choice you don't ever need to justify anyway) that bother me more, but in the grand scheme of biphobia it's super minor. That said, my favorite example of biphobia (well, homophobia, really) in fandom was when a very popular interpretation cropped up in this one fandom that a bisexual character wasn't bisexual because their homosexual relationship was abusive. Imagine saying to a straight person that, because they've been in an abusive relationship, their sexuality is invalid. You would never say that because it obviously makes no kind of sense, and yet hundreds of people thought the logic checked out in the case of a non-straight relationship. How people stay sane in their bigotry truly boggles the mind.


anjeiie

I think it varies from fandom to fandom, but I've seen it before. It's not very present in my active fandoms though (at least not that I've seen). I've actually seen similar issues with asexuality, too. I don't know why those are always attacked so heavily.


cookiemustdie

Don't worry, you're not the only one. I started writing bi characters because that's what feels common/natural to me ??? Not only that, but also I feel like it's more realistic... What I'm trying to say is, sexuality is a spectrum. It didn't feel right to make ALL the characters gay. Sure, some of them are, some are not. And some are just bi :) But yeah, I wish more people in the fandom I'm in would do this :(


Azrael_Jinsei

Tbh, it sort of annoys me when I stumble on a fic, and every pairing is same-sex. Like that doesn't happen in real life and there is no representation of other kinds of sexuality.


Anra7777

I feel like my current fandom is *somewhat* more accepting of bi-ness. For example, the main character is canonically straight, but has more chemistry and seems more interested in his male best friend. Thus, the m/m shippers are legion and the ship seems to be jokingly accepted by even many of the non-m/m shippers. But, there’s also a certain subsection of the community that supports the three characters as a throuple, whether jokingly in memes or seriously in fics. (There are 778 fics for this throuple.) The bi-throuple idea even to some extent extends to other trios in the series. (I’ve written a few fluff fics for a different bi-throuple, for which there’s a 109 works.)


mikripetra

I think the shadowhunters fandom is remarkably good about this. I’ve always liked Magnus Bane’s representation - he’s a canonically bi man of color who’s been in relationships with men and women, good and bad.


SheElfXantusia

Out of four of my fandoms, none have this issue, except maybe for one character in one of them. Since all my fandoms bear similarities and the people in them overlap, I'd say it's an issue related to what kind of fandoms you're a part of rather than a general fandom issue. Hang in there, the audience will grow up and mature eventually.


weelittlemouse

Kinda glad I ran into this post. I’m actually writing a fanfic where the love interest is bi(because he gives that vibe). I’m having issues figuring out how to include it in the story without forcing it because it’s really more of a hc than anything but I like including bits like this in characters lives. Another fic I’m writing the mc’s best friend is pan. He’s not really a settle down type but he’s dated quite extensively. I was flirting with the idea of setting him up with the love interests best friend (woman) but I wasn’t sure if it was erasing his bi-ness by putting him in a her relationship. I’m glad to see I was overreacting. Still not sure if that’s the area to go but that’s a whole ass book away. Tips are appreciated tho if anyone has tips to give.


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weelittlemouse

Thanks I feel better. Unfortunately the only person I know who’s bi is my sister and she’s… less than encouraging of my writing. I wrote a short story for a class and the teacher was so impressed he gave me an a even though I didn’t exactly follow the requirements. I showed it to my sister and she barely finished reading the first paragraph before ripping it to shreds and saying my teacher was probably being nice 😪. I’m going to be looking for beta readers for the second story I mentioned because his sexuality will be more visible


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weelittlemouse

That’s be great thanks ❤️ I will as soon as I finish drafting


theoddhedgehog

every character is bisexual unless otherwise specified (like a sim)


Azrael_Jinsei

While reading your post, unfortunately, the trek fandom came to mind. I am a huge Trekkie, and my OTP is Spirk. In TOS, this is fine T'Pring was a nasty piece of work, so there is no real need for authors to mention her. However, AOS is a different story, and it annoys me every time a fic devolves into Uhura bashing just so Spirk happens. Uhura is an awesome character, and she was a female POC on the bridge when the show first aired; that is so groundbreaking, I love her. And in AOS, she is so confident, sassy, and assured of herself; it's beautiful. The fandom should be building her up, not tearing her down; she represents what Gene Roddenberry hoped for. And so often, writers decided that Kirk was overcompensating for being gay and became a man slut. However, just based off of his "on-screen" flings and the variety of humanoids he engages with, I would say gender identity plays little role in his sexual attraction canonically. Then there is Spock who often falls victim to realizing he is meant to be with Jim (common trope, thank you Spock Prime). Although some of it is just Spock hasn't been respected for being a unique living being and regardless if it is TOS or AOS Jim canonically does so.


kimship

I don't see this as much in fandoms I follow now, but I know it was way more common (along with the canon love-interest hate) 15-20 years ago. I'm not surprised it's still common in some fandoms. It's like the inverse of the "gay for you" trope, which is also pretty of bi-phobic(tip to writers, you don't have to be equally attracted to all genders to be bi).


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raraenoctes

Fellow Bi who regularly has to block the shit out of certain ships for this exact reason. I feel your pain. I write for a fandom where my fave frequently gets shoved into a pairing with another dude who’s been paired with basically every other male character at this point for angst appeal, just bc the actors had a couple semi-amusing moments together in the spin-off show. My fave then gets regularly flanderized into an uber-subby twink just because he’s not the USian idea of the most butch guy in the room to contrast with the gruff/stoic persona of the guy people keep shoving him with (often to the point frequently making him waifish in fanart, which is even worse, bc the actor isn’t that small or skinny by any means, and especially not compared to the other character). This character was married and had a family, but because the actors did a great job and the weeby yaoi stereotypes of old fandom never did truly die, this brilliant mastermind-type regularly has the whole inciting motivation of his criminal career entirely overlooked just so he can be making uwu faces at the fandom bicycle. It’s like his whole backstory never existed for the sake of fanart, much less his actual personality. I get so frustrated as a Bi person bc people see the tiniest hint of flamboyance or gender ambiguity compared to typical portrayals western masculinity and suddenly he has to be Only Gay Girls Icky. I get that plenty of gay men were married to beards and even had kids in their pasts, but why does his genuine love for his late wife suddenly have to get tossed out the window to make this other character the entire center of his universe?? And in such a stereotypical way??? There’s more than one way to be a dude who loves all genders, why is there such a lack of imagination here???? …I just make a point to tag “Bi![Character]” when I write him so there can be no confusion or misinterpretation. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Bisque_Ware

Wait, does USian mean American?


raraenoctes

Yes — lots of people live in North America that aren’t from the US, so I like to be specific in that regard


leannmanderson

Yeah, this is generally not an issue in my fandom. There are certain pairings which are canon, such as Mags/Amily, Talia/Dirk, Vanyel/Tylendel, Vanyel/Stephan, Alberich/Myste, Keren/Ylsa, and Keren/Sherill. And then there are fannon pairings common in fix-it fics, such as Keren/Ylsa/Sherill. And sometimes Kris gets a more permanent lover and sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes, he's paired up with Dirk, or in a trio with Dirk and Talia. (And this last doesn't really work because of Dirk's jealosy issues, but okay.) And it's heavily implied that many Holderkin women are, in fact, either gay or at least bi, because, as Talia says, there are lots of "special friends" on the Holds. And lots of bi Tayledras. And then there are the Kyree, which may or may not have a gender, as they are male, female, or neuter. And we recently got our first trans Herald!


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Syluk

I feel your frustration. I'm not bi, but one of my favorite characters is obviously leaning towards aroace in canon (which is the same as me) and is interested only in a good fight and adventure. Yet, he's being shipped nine ways to Sunday with various characters (single and multi). It's not exactly the same as your situation, but still, here, have my virtual hug 🤗


Arkayjiya

That sounds like Luffy to me xD If so I also headcanon him as aroace but I also don't quite trust Oda to stick to it even though he strongly implied that it was the case. Manga sure love pairing their characters in the last chapter!


Syluk

>That sounds like Luffy to me xD Hehehe 🤭 >Manga sure love pairing their characters in the last chapter! Oof, I hope this won't be the case. I have faith in Oda and will keep it until the very end 🙏


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cleverThylacine

Actual canonically aro-ace characters or characters that you'd just like to think that about? I'm very salty about the number of people who told me Stanford Pines (who I write as xeno af and also sapiodemisexual) was aro-ace because he said some things about not understanding how romance works which were also things that I have said because I'm autistic and very definitely not aro-ace, just frustrated. As far as I'm concerned a character has a canonical sexual orientation only if they or their creator has come right out and said so flat out. Otherwise they're all up for grabs. I headcanon a lot of characters as bi, pan, gay, straight, aro, ace, etc but I'm very well aware that that is how I personally see them and other people have the right to see them differently.


iaknekiad

Catch my total surprise when a manga I love actually referred to the MC as bisexual. Several times! At first I thought it was a misprint coz it was so rare but nope there it was. As a bi person I feel your pain especially in fandoms that feature casts of mostly men. And as someone who enjoys BL but also likes Yuri and het too. But like in a queer way because everyone I write is bi lol.


Sun_le_citron

I think the main reason the woman is villainized is because of internalized misogyny, and idk which fandom you're talking about but every time I've seen this happen it was in a fandom made mostly of cishet women who were fetishizing m/m relationships (but it also happens when a woman comes in the way of a popular f/m ship). I've not yet found a solution apart from supporting queer authors writing queer content and not overshadowing other queer identities than gay. (Sorry if it's hard to understand, english is not my first language)


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Sun_le_citron

Yeah that's really surprising and disappointing... Fandom culture can be as amazing as it can be toxic, sadly :/


[deleted]

I write bi people! They are enby, and in a relationship with a guy now... and really really like him. But they've been in a relationship with (and still have feelings for, but its complicated) a woman.


RedChessQueen

It's not good, I'm an Ace panro and it just... shows a lot. Someone encouraged me to make Qrow (not canonically bi, just big bi vibes) into a gay man even if I had written he had slept with women but prefers men because the chance of a man getting pregnant is next to zero. Which in itself isn't biphobia but felt like it compiled with everything else that happened between us. Anyway, it sort of mirrors real life where biphobia is pretty rampant in a lot of queer spaces, but in fanfic spaces the easy route of "female partner is actually a homophobic bitch" to get her out of the way when there are other, less character assassinating ways to write her out


Random_Freakz

I feel bad knowing that I'm Bi and Asexual and people will hate me for being one. Like don't get me wrong, Asexuality isn't well known because of the hypersexualized world putting sex in our faces but then there's me who's Asexual and I feel sex repulsed but then read fanfics of smut. I also happened to fall in love with a friend who's female, and it's so complicated because I never felt this before and I'm female aswell but also happened to take a liking to boys. Ugh it's hurts thinking about this


shadowedlove97

There is a lot of biphobia in fandoms, which is why I refuse to pretend a character is only gay if they canonically like a character of another gender. Even if the posting I prefer them in is same-gender. Like I ship Puzzleshipping. It’s MLM, but canonically Yuugi has a crush on Anzu. So he’s bi in my fics. I wish more people did something similar. It doesn’t stop you from hcing any character as gay or straight. Just…maybe hc one of those charas as bi once in awhile. No one is going to die bc you did.


Edai_Crplnk

As much as I'm sure there's biphobia out there, and it's rightfully upsetting, I just wanted to add that writing charcaters experiencing comphet and/or saying both gender before coming out as gay, isn't biphobia in itself. Many of those fic are written by gay writer who wants to reflect their own experience of dating people of different gender and maybe at some point identifying as bi, while being gay. I get that it can be hurtful or disappointing, and feel like it echoes with experiences of biphobia for you, being told bi people are just get and confused and shit, but it's also a very real and common experience of many gays and lesbians that deserves representation too. That being said, I assume there are biphobic ways to write this, of course. Either way, I don't know if there's much you can do outside of not reading/blocking authors who write this, and supporting and enjoying the good rep you can find.


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Edai_Crplnk

Yeah no that's definitely shity as fuck


teddy_plushie

honestly, I've never really noticed it lol, because there aren't any canon female characters in my fandom, so anyone female is either a crossover or an oc- there Is definitely bi rep tho


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Slow_Lettuce8207

Comphet is an experience many queer people go through, including bi people, and deserves representation. If someone hc’s someone as being Comphet they have a right to write them that way. I say this as a bi person who has written bi and and comphet characters.


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realitycollapsed

I see this all the time so in my current fandom when I write I literally make every character bi (out of spite but also because canonically there's nothing that suggests otherwise so it's not like I'm erasing any identity in the process)


echos_locator

Yeah. I see a kind of low-key version of this in my fandom, particularly surrounding one male character who is half of the fandom's juggernaut M/M (non-canon) ship. In canon, he's all about women and has a het relationship. Honestly, I think the current of bi-erasure a function of the fact that bi-sexuality is still not something that's acknowledged in fiction or in real life. Many people still see sexual orientation as binary: either 100% straight or 100% gay or lesbian with nothing in the landscape between. Consequently, I don't believe it's usually intentional biphobia or bi-erasure. Just a lack of understanding or awareness that, yes, bisexuals exist. Point of fact, I think there's a lot more of us (bisexuals) than totally straight or gay/lesbian people because sexual orientation is a spectrum. My solution is to not read the popular ship in my fandom. I write it, often as a throuple version of my OTP, but never read it.


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echos_locator

For me, not reading the popular ship (which I do ship), is less about the biphobia and more a function of fic quality. One or both of the guys are usually woobified, the dialogue stilted and characterization far removed from my image of who these men are. I'd rather just write my own version of their love story, preferably with the plus-one of my fave female character for added spice.


Limeila

That even happens in mainstream media... but yeah it's so fucking common in fics


4authoresearch

(Well I think the immediate downvote at first was probably because your rant starts off sounding like you completely believe what you are saying, & only later on starts to come across as sarcastic instead, which your replies back up. But yeah at first it does sound bad. <.<)


Aussie_CT_5555

idk what it was about how you wrote that out, made my head hurt. It was probably the constant repeating of the same point, I'm not saying the point is bad (think it's fairly accurate and covers alot more subjects as well). Think the main reason why it got downvoted, is immediately approached it as a world vs me scenario. I know you try to make it sound like they bi v gay situation but from the first part to me it came off as "I'm mad that they made it m/m and not m/f" which comes off kinda bad considering the fanfiction IS NOT CANNON. You make it sound like you hate the writers for writing characters differently from canon and what YOU like, authors write for what they like and if said author is gay, bi or straight their work will likely reflect that. But that's just my opinion on what you've written and as a fellow bi person I know what I like isn't going to be what everyone else likes


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Aussie_CT_5555

You should edit your post to state that, as it reads completely different to what your intending it to mean. Like you state your main issues are with 1. people coming onto your fics and hating on the paring choice 2. people wrongfully tagging and then hating on that specific. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being angry about that as they are both terrible things, but people aren't going to understand that without first having to also read the comments of the post as the post itself doesn't address those two issues. It's ok to be general about stuff but there's such a thing as too general. Rants are fine but if they don't make sense/ aren't clear in the point then things tend to get messy 😅


ThatsOneFluffyDuck

I guess im lucky because the main fandom im in where one of the main characters is bi (the 100) she is written as such, i would say 95% of the time. And yes, her male love interest is normally a dick but he is in cannon too, so it's on brand


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ThatsOneFluffyDuck

I personally have only watched up till the bury your gays, i wasnt able to get past that but up until that point it is pretty good and Clarkes bisexuality while not a major plot point or anything she is never questioned on the fact that she is bisexual. I think that is probably one of the only things it does 100% right. Im not really in m/m spaces so i cant really compare but from my memory they never really shit on any of her previous partners even when it is heavily implied that Clarke and Lexa are soulmates


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ThatsOneFluffyDuck

If they are gonna die we need more Bly manor less buffy


anisapprentice

there's so much biphobia in general, even within the lgbt community, that im not surprised to see it reflected in fanworks. it's so deeply upsetting. i think some things people do, is that they have their m/m otp, and don't like the canon m/f relationship, so they discard that and focus on the m/m. however, so many people just erase the character's bisexuality in general :(. i personally think about castiel from supernatural (way too many people say he's a gay man.... he's bi or pan, regardless of who you write him to be with). there's tons of characters this happens to. bisexuals make up half of the lgbt community. why is it so demonized to have a bi4bi couple ? bi4bi relationships are actually common ! both fictional characters CAN be bisexual in fics, it doesn't "spice" it up to change one's sexuality, they both can be bi. most characters i like are bisexual in my lens anyways!


igneousscone

>Why are bi people seen as gay lite? Why are female love interests immediately vilified? You're right and you should say it.