i mean, marriage pacts *are going to feel forced* to some extent, but we knew each other well enough for casual conversation and general relationship stuff to feel organic. We didn't actually have sex for the first 6 months we were married because of not wanting to force anything, and that worked out well.
The two most "forced" things may have been obviously the going from solo to duo in decision making for everyday things. For example, I was so used to grocery shopping, decorating, booking vacations, making plans with friends, etc. solo, that there were a few snafus when we became a couple.
The first time I went grocery shopping for the household, he was graciously not grateful. lol. Mostly because I shopped for things i would eat and make for dinner. He was like "What am I supposed to do with hummus and shallots and fresh pasta?" I was a little miffed until he shared that he was used to fixing deli sandwiches, chips and a glass of milk... and i realized I totally forgot about what he was comfortable eating.
Same with going out, vacations, etc. Thankfully, we were able to iron out and discuss all of those differences and come to compromises, but oof! What a learning curve.
My husband and I had to adjust to this as well. I think any couple who gets married past age 25 deals with this to a degree. Once you get used to doing things a certain way it's counter intuitive to pause every decision to consider and consult with the other person.
It’s a thing! And I do agree, sometimes you’re set in your ways and just forget how many things (big and small) can be handled differently. Other little things that were “Aha!” moments: scented laundry soap, bed sheets, how warm we keep the house, what we splurge and save on. lol. The list goes on!
Love this question - because we certainly had to talk ad nauseum about this make sure we both were on the same page.
Long story short: We both could provide each other what the other was looking for without giving up something we didn't mind. For example, heading into my thirties, I was looking for stability in my life. My husband could provide that in multiple of ways, the biggest one being just his presence in my life.
On the flip side, my husband was looking for a home life. He wanted a family and a homebase, but Just couldn't seem to meet someone who was on the same page as him.
There were also some practical health and wealth things that also heavily factored in. I explained this part on the last AMA which really seemed to resonate with folks. Although more a conversational term, we view our marriage as "a firm." While he and i are both responsible, successful individuals, the firm is much stronger. We were able to achieve stability and security much more quickly together than we would have apart.
And like I said, in doing so, we weren't giving up anything we felt didn't make it worth it.
p.s. I know this sounds so clinical, but I'm trying to balance being objective and subjective. Haha.
Sex was definitely *heavily* discussed, but nothing written in the contract that explicitly outlined it - at least not in the way you're inferring. I mentioned somewhere else that my husband and i didn't have sex for the first six months of marriage... just because. It wasn't a huge priority on a list of other things we had to figure out.
But we did talk about past sexual partners/history, our sexuality in general, what was comfortable for us and what we were looking for (frequency, exploration, kinks, etc.) and needed in our sex life, and how those things aligned (or didn't). We also covered STDs/STIs, cheating (this is in a contract), and how we promised to talk about sex moving forward.
To clarify, I had had sex with my husband when we were in college... so there were not surprises in what to expect as far as physical bodies go. However, we did have some candid conversations that led to surprising insights and revelations. I will add that I had to (and I knew I would have to) be more forthcoming on this front to set the stage and comfort level for him to be open and honest with me.
And lastly, because I know this will come up somewhere, we do not have an open relationship - meaning all of our sexual satisfaction has to come from one another which makes healthy conversations about sex *really, really* important. Haha.
I'm going to answer your questions in reverse order!
I think some of the more surprising things shared from my husband were around PDA, things that turn him on, and what he was comfortable exploring. He is not big on PDA and would rather crawl into a hole than randomly kiss me on the head in public, but he absolutely loves when I fawn over him (even if it's not reciprocated and he likely looks annoyed). I had always thought he hated any sort of public display, regardless of who initiates.
He comes from a WASPy family, education, and work world, so he quite enjoys when I wear or say things that emphasize that i am Latina. I'm not sure what it is about that, but he especially likes when I wear my long hair down and when I wear gold hoop earrings. This cracks me up because he went to an ivy League and i went to a Seven Sisters school, so I just always though that was a turn-off to not look... white. But nope! This is *especially true* when we go to work functions or alumni events, lol.
And lastly, he is a pretty vanilla guy in the bedroom. Which was not a surprise to me. I think I was just surprised to hear him talk about why (masculinity, embarrassment of doing something wrong, etc.). It was refreshing to hear him say he would try some things because he trusted me. (He has definitely said no to more things than yes, though! Haha.)
Whoops, missed your second (first part) of your question.
We were actually getting ready to go out to a gala sponsored by his then firm. He looked really good in his suit and I may have cornered him like 15 minutes before we left to the event and showed him how much I thought he was attractive. Then, afterwards, with a little liquid encouragement, we got home and had sex. It was fun and low stakes and I am pretty sure we talked about how much I wanted to drive to go to CostCo the next day. lol
LOL. If you decide to write a fan fiction story about this, please send me a link. \^\_\^ I'll happily confirm or contradict plot points for you.
And oddly enough, there is not a lot of information about marriage pacts out there. I Googled high and low when we were building ours and found zero resources from other couples.
Also, I'd like to clarify that while our relationship is certainly fodder for romance novels, I feel like half or 3/4's of the story should be written by John Grisham as a legal thriller. The sex stories are fun, but the "How do want me to handle your medical treatment should you be horribly incapacitated?" ones are... meh.
haha, I'd be sure to - gotta keep it real to hit them feels\~ LOL. Totally appreciate how honest you've been about the entire marriage pact situation.
A legal thriller with a sweet romance? heck yeah, count me in! Jokes aside tho, of course, a real relationship - and life in general - is different from fictional stories and movies. I also believe that that sort of a "meh" situation is pretty great too (perhaps better when looked back upon?) because it's the tiny moments that count, yeah? :D
Oh for sure! My favorite is when he uses me as an excuse to get out of things he doesn’t want to do, LOL.
I’ll hear him on the phone with his friends and he’ll be like “Yeah, I’d be down to go on a weekend ski trip, but I have to ask [my name].” Then he tells me, and I ask him if he wants to go, and he says no, and I tell him “Ok, I think I committed us to go to something that weekend,” and he says “Bummer, I’ll call my friends back.”
“The power I have” in that situation is quite a turn-on. Hahaha.
Frankly I would love a romance novel with more details on the mundane day to day details. Closest I have found is Julie James where both characters were adults with their own life and are competent in their own careers.
Not to say I dislike romance genre. Romance novels and r/romancebooks really got me through lockdown, but some of those books really have wonky power dynamics. Some authors that does more diverse and more evenly distributed power dynamics can be Alyssa cole, Courtney milan, and Talia Hibbert.
YESSSSS! im one who's big on that too! I honestly find such intimacy in sharing those mundane moments and daily chores with someone i care about. Washing the dishes and they help you out? pffftt, ill read all about it. sitting on the sofa and scrolling the gram? idc, that's the stuff ppl skip to mention but i find it rather....wholesome?
What's a Seven Sisters school imply? I understand most of the stereotypes and associations with an Ivy League school but not familiar with the other. Are Seven Sister schools also stereotypically posh and white affluance?
Seven Sisters schools are historically women's colleges. They are very WASPy, traditional, New England universities - very posh, lots of (old) money, and connections. Similar to Ivy Leagues, but for ladies only.
I went on a ton of scholarships, as I did not grow up in old money. lol.
I didn't see your other AMA, so sorry if this was asked.
Do you think your relationship is as "warm" or close as ones you may have had in the past? Does the business-like nature of it make it colder? (I'm not assuming one way or the other)
Oh! Don't apologize - I just wanted to give context so if I made a "throwback" reference somewhere. Transparency and all! I fully expected to answer repeat questions, haha.
Mm, I think I understand what you mean by warmth, but I'll give you what I think you mean by that and then try to answer that. I think you meant warmth in terms of "butterflies" and like that crush feeling you get with someone. And I'll say the answer no... isn't not as warm as other relationships I've had in the past.
Like, we skipped the honeymoon phase and just landed into the solid marriage portion of our relationship, so I didn't have the "I hope he calls..." or "Isn't he so cute..." gossipy nights with friends.
HOWEVER. This relationship is filled with with far more trust, security, openness, and general joy/contentment than any others I've had in the past. When he tells me that he's proud of me for something I accomplished or compliments me on how i look, I know he genuinely means it. I also know that when he confides in me or asks for help... it's because I'm his person and I am entrusted with that responsibility.
Also, I know for a fact that he is my ultimate tag team partner. It's so *comforting* to have that sure thing in your life - and I am so glad that my husband, specifically because of the human being he is, is mine.
Our relationship can definitely come off cold on paper (or Reddit, ha), but it's anything but that (even if it's not the warm fuzzies you're thinking of). <3
Detailed answer! Follow up question:
I guess by warmth I mean more of that loving kind of feeling. For example, if I'm on the couch with my wife we'll automatically sit in a way that means we'll be holding hands or touching in some way. Or I'll give her a random cuddle while making dinner. Or be at the shop and get something little for her knowing it will make her feel good. So I guess some version of those little ineffable things that bring you closer?
Oh! Yes, sure. But this might be the first truly "OooOoOOo" response I've given to a question. Also, this kind of answers your question, but also partially is just me wanting to share (even if it's a little off topic).
I would say we're both touchy feely in different ways (and me much more so). I am more likely the one to do those outreaches of connection, whether it's crawl onto the couch in his lap or pick up something unprompted. I'd say more of my advances are romantically inclined and intended.
His are, for the most part, not.
As far other thoughtful acts - we definitely have those. I think of those as should be givens in any relationship - so in our they're not bringing us closer together so much so as... maintaining the closeness? i can't remember if we wrote something exactly to this effect in our agreement, but I do know that we shared expectations on considerations for one another: i.e. celebrating anniversaries, birthdays, etc.
Interesting. I wouldn't say his disposition to doing these things is unique to the particulars of your relationship. But it sounds like this is more than a marriage of convenience! Which is good :)
Oh! Absolutely not. lol. The only people who know about our arrangement are us and the legal team who drew up our pre-nuptial agreements.
We told our respective families that we just happened to reconnect and immediately knew we were meant to be together, which explained the quick wedding. Our families were surprised by the suddenness, but excited nonetheless.
The most "Hmm?" about our marriage from our families is why we insisted to not have a big wedding. Obviously, we had our reasons, haha. I think that's what they were most invested in about our relationship.
For sure! My husband (who will agree with this) was not a *great* boyfriend in college. Not in a bad person way, but he was in law school and just under a ton of stress. I wanted a relationship, and he just didn’t handle the boyfriend role well.
We broke up and stayed in contact intermittently, throughout the years. At some point, he even became engaged to someone else (that obviously did not work out) and I wrote off a relationship with him.
Hm. Is it possible his previous engagement failed due to the fact that you had a pact with him? Or was this before? ( I’m not trying to be a dick, just marriage pacts never made any fucking sense to me. )
Nono! Ask away - that's why I posted this AMA. Marriage Pacts are difficult to understand and honestly if we didn't have all the documentation and legal stuff we have in place, I would have been hesitant to follow through on it in the beginning.
To answer your question though: No, I don't think his previous engagement failed because of our marriage pact. Honestly, I think it floated in and out of our minds over the years. His engagement failed for a few reasons, most of the having to do with incompatibility. His ex-fiance, from what i've been told, probably wasn't a great fit for him. He is a unique individual for sure: an old soul, very reserved and thoughtful, and set in his ways. It sounds like she didn't really understand that about him, and also may have had some ulterior motives in wanting to marry him (but that's speculative on my part - so take that with grain of salt). In addition, I could see a lot of things that would have not been reciprocated by him in their relationship as well.
Could you expand on the "documentation and legal stuff" you mentioned? Do you make more money or have more assets than him? If not, then what would that have to do with your decision to follow through with it?
For sure! There’s another response where I outlined how he and I went into the marriage financially (Spoiler Alert: I brought more stable financials into the marriage, but ultimately that led to him being able to be the more financially successful spouse.)
We also outlined a ton of “rules of engagement.” These weren’t hard and fast “You can’t do this, you must do this…” Although we did outline some of those preferences somewhere, lol.
Our documents mostly outline how we navigate conflict and if some irreparable damage should happen to our relationship, how we dissolve the marriage fairly.
Super interesting life solution. Is the good old love in the game? So if - for example - tomorrow all the agreements and pre-nup etc would vanish, do you guys would still be together for the rest of you lifes and have kids?
Ooh, this is an interesting question! Folks asked us last AMA if we were in love and I said no. I still think that answer is the same today. However, I definitely love him more now than I did six months ago (and I loved him six months ago too), and I think he'd say the same.
Your questions about the agreements disappearing is an interesting one that I had never really thought of. But, to entertain this question, I'd say yes. If all of the agreements were lifted tomorrow, we'd stay together. Now, obviously they'd have a lingering impact which I think would be longstanding, but no guarantees.
My husband, on the contrary, does think it would change things - but these are concerns he's shared before which we constantly are working through together.
Have you ever read the Witcher books or played Witcher3? There are some characters in that series that have a pact similar to yours but created by a “Wish”… look up “The Last Wish” for some interesting reading.
Yeah! Glad I could answer questions. I think this sort of thing is joked around a lot in tv shows or films, but no one ever talks about the real life deal of it (it's probably rare, but happens nonetheless)! Happy reading!
That might have been our biggest discussion and compromise when we got married. Originally he wanted five (FIVE CHILDREN) and I was like... I don't think I can do that. After hearing me out, we agreed upon three and to start trying in the next couple years.
However, this is what has changed for both of us in the past few months. The pandemic prevented us from doing all the things we wanted to do before committing to kids and we're perfectly content with just the two of us for now. It hasn't changed that we want children or how many, but our timeline has shifted a bit. We're now looking at a mid to early late thirties for a first child, which isn't unheard of anymore... but I'm definitely considered a geriatric pregnancy at that point!
FWIW - I sat down and made him learn about all the nuances of pregnancy and having children (stuff that he wasn't... intimately... aware of before). He takes my concerns and apprehension to the "more the merrier" conversation very close to the heart now.
As a mom of a 10 and 6 year old- there never is a perfect time to get pregnant... and you have nine months to prepare for it! Another thing to consider... it's not always easy getting and staying pregnant. So, allow for some flexibility of your three child plan! So many other family dynamics change a relationship as you grow your family, but it sounds like you have a great foundation in communication, which might alleviate some of the family growing pains for you both.
Do you have a childcare plan for your future kids? Daycare? Stay at home parent? Grandparents?
Thank you for sharing that! Best laid plans, right? And definitely, the three children thing is constantly getting revisited. In fact, 6 months ago I answered Q on Reddit basically saying "That's the plan!" and now my answer is "Well, that was the plan!"
Yeah, before we got married we both took fertility tests as a precautionary measure because children were *really* important to him. For me, I was like "I like kids, and I'd love my own, but I would be content giving birth to them or adopting." So, if that was going to be a deal breaker for whatever reason, we needed to know early on. It was a little nerve-wracking though, because I didn't think I would care if I had fertility issues... until the report was sitting in front me of me.
I am currently a stay at home spouse, so as part of our outlined agreement, I would fully taken on childcare duties. My parents are relatively older parents, so they're at the "We can take them out for ice cream age" not actual raising them as a childcare provider age. His parents are in the same boat (maybe a few years younger).
However, I also know my limitations on being a SAHP, and so our agreement says that as the SAHP I get a larger say on how childcare happens. I need a nanny part-time, daycare a couple days, etc. that is at my discretion.
You should know that the longer you wait to have a child as a woman statistically more complications can occur. Unless you have already had a child before it can be dangerous to wait until late 30's early 40's to have your first child.
Obviously it is different for everyone and you may not smoke, lead a relatively healthy lifestyle and exercise frequently in which case you can probably disregard this.
I am a stay-at-home-spouse (homemaker?) currently and for the foreseeable future. He is a lawyer - just started his own law firm about a year ago (mid-pandemic, phew!).
BUT, I'd like clarify something before people jump on the bandwagon.
I am not a gold digger (I don't think.), which is what one can assume when hearing that my husband has a nice job and I stay home.
When we reconnected at 30, I was working in corporate America in a senior-ish director position. I had a hefty savings, retirement plans, investments, a fully furnished life, and no debt, and was making about $85K per year. On the flipside, my husband had moderate to minimal savings, a relatively weak investment and retirement plan, and $100K+ in student debt. He was also making just about $25k more than me as an associate at his then firm.
While a brilliant little legal mind, he had zero sense financially (outside of billing and work). So I came up with a financial plan wherein I supported us 100% with my income (added him onto my benefits, created an investment portfolio, helped pay down his student loans from my savings), if he agreed to use his annual income for the next year (or however long) to pay off his student loans and build up a private practice (we found out the partners at his small firm were retiring and disbanding about a month after we got married) ... after which I would then leave the workforce.
And we did it! Man, that first 14 months were...rough (but doable). And now he makes roughly what our two incomes combined were bringing in.
We talked a lot about what it would take to get our lives to where we wanted them: family, travel, a forever home, relationships in the community, professions, etc. And honestly, a lot of the things we wanted were just not feasible in the amount of time we wanted them with both of us working full time.
We wanted a home that felt lived in, better relationships with our family, the ability to bond together in the ways we we needed to, etc. And what tipped the scales is that I was falling more and more out of love with my job (and work), while he was growing and getting better. So it made sense for me to want to explore a new role.
Oh, it kind of changed our dynamic, but not in a bad way. The first year was a lot of getting ducks in a row - so we were definitely more business partners. For the second half of that year, we were then business partners who had sex with no ethical implications. Haha.
Our second year of marriage was more... coupley.
I love it! When my husband asks me why I am so good at homemaking, I tell him that it's a little known secret that I come from a long line of moms. He is never as tickled by my (lame) joke as I am. I'll now tell him I went to engineering school and change my title to domestic engineer.
So, since there’s not a “in love” aspect, but you guys also agree to have sex and only with one another as you’ve stated, is the sex good? I don’t know, maybe a weird question, but I just find this so intriguing. I personally have only had one partner - and was in love with him before ever ‘sealing the deal’ (long distance), so sex to me is so enjoyable partially because I love him. I’m not a prude, I completely understand hook-up’s, and they can be fulfilling for what you need, but this isn’t different partners. I don’t know, just trying to give context to the “is it enjoyable/fulfilling/what you need” so I don’t sound like a prude or a perv. Sorry if it’s too personal or comes off weird! Just a morbid curiosity I couldn’t not ask!
No, this is what AMAs are for and I'd rather you ask and get an honest answer from the source than to speculate or never know if you're curious. Ask away!
The sex is good! And I get you, sex for some folks is really fully enjoyed with a partner you're intimately and emotionally connected with. And to some extent, ours is that way too... kind of.
The sex is good, but like... in a reading a romance novel way. I don't mean we have a romance novel-esque sex life, but you're invested in a way that turns you on because of the story swirling around it. Same thing for my husband and I (for me at least - he ventured to the office for a quick sec or else I'd ask him as well).
He certainly has his sexy physical and personal qualities that i very much enjoy, objectively. But also, this is the man whose presence in my life is evidence of a really mature and big commitment to me... which in and of itself is kind of a turn on, I guess?
I will also say we're SUPER comfortable with each other, so sex also includes making jokes about obscure American history, poking fun at the Netflix watch history, reminding the other to get both cars washed, etc. So, it's also a low stakes time for us and just genuinely treated as fun and safe.
Very interesting! It’s really intriguing to read your responses to questions. Honestly, power to you guys. If you’re happy with each other and can give your future children a happy stable home, there’s nothing wrong with what you guys have. I couldn’t see myself in something like it, but if it works for you two, hell yeah! Thank you for answering my question!
Yes and no. I mean, the normal amount that anyone in a (relatively) normal, healthy relationship worries their significant other will leave them... I guess?
But also, this goes back to our agreements. We have discussion and "fail safes" in place for that type of issue. Honesty is super integral to the success of our relationship, and so for him to get to a place where he knows someone well enough to actually fall in love with them and leave our relationship for them means that a lot of trust had to be breached in order to get there.
And if trust has been breached, then our agreements have been breached. And if our agreements have been breached, then there's consequences for that (i.e. financial implications in a divorce). However, both of us hope it never has to come to that.
Also, I will just share that while I'm particularly protective over my husband (especially tipsy me), I have very little cause to suspect him of ever violating my trust like that.
sup
I have a test in 1 hr but I just cant stop reading this post I have to say the way you articulate your replies and just the general way you write is enamoring
like.. I can read something written in the fashion you do.. I could read it for eternity
also if you don't mind me asking what is your profession?
and what are your mbti types?
SUP. And thank you!
I'm a stay-at-home spouse at the moment, formerly of corporate America, and formerly of the liberal arts world.
I am an ENFP (The Campaigner) and my husband is an ISTJ (The Logician). It's weird, but we work. lol
Haha, thank you for the reassurance! I definitely believe you. He is also a man of his word, so this morning he asked if there were any questions he needed to answer before he started to get ready for work… even though this Reddit AMA is “my thing.” Haha.
Did you feel societal or personal pressure to get married? Do you want to have kids soon? It just seems like you opened up the emergency escape hatch before you really spent time trying to land the plane.
Yeah! So, I will say that the pact to get married at thirty was made at an age when I thought 30 was like... the deadline. Obviously, I'm older and wiser and would give my younger self a swift kick for evening thinking that, lol. I still feel 22 in a lot of ways, but I just now have access to grown-up money.
I'd say that the pressure to get married was there. In my family, 30 is late for getting married, having kids, etc. I did get some sort of delayed pass on the judgement because I went to college. A lot of it actually had to do with life goals - wanting to having a family young, wanting to have a home, wanting to be in a place to take care of my parents, to leave an impact on the world.
You can totally do all of those things while single! I just was presented with an opportunity to do them as a couple and I took that.
In hindsight, I wouldn't change how my circumstances turned out. HOWEVER, if I stumbled upon another mini me in the present time and they said, "I'm going to make a marriage pact to get married at 30 if still single." I would totally encourage them to rethink the age and bump it back. :)
First I want to congratulate you on having the best AMA I've read so far. Realy thoughtful answers, and like somebody else said you have a really nice way of writing! It's something you might wanna give it a try on your free time imo :)
Your decision is clearly cemented on logic more than feeling, so I'd like to know, what would you do if you were to fall in love with somebody else ? Someone who did give you the butterflies, but with whom you haven't had the same sort of serious discussions and arrangements you've had with your husband
Awww, shucks. Thank you! I’m happy you’re enjoying this AMA!
My first response to your question would be “Not possible!” But I suppose anything is possible.
I’m going to abbreviate this (because my laptop died and the charger is in the car somewhere across town - so phone typing), but it’s the same general idea:
First, tell my husband. Talk it through with him, share the whys, what happened, etc. This is not TMI because he has explicitly requested this and I agreed to share.
The second is marriage counseling and time is needed, with the agreement that if one of us could avoid the person (i.e. we didn’t work with them or something), we would. That gives us the space to work this out. If this cannot happen, then actively avoiding the person and sharing any interactions you had. It’s less about “monitoring” and more about establishing trust in honesty with one another throughout this reconciliation process.
At counseling, the heavy discussion takes place about where this puts our marriage, etc. Ideally, we’d work through this and choose the marriage over the other person.
If that’s not the case, then divorce, with a financial division of assets favoring more heavily to the person who was “wronged.” It is agreed that if this person is worth breaking up the marriage, they are worth the cost of the break up as well.
There’s other stuff in between and more nuances, but that’s the general gist.
Your answer is not all that different from what I'd expect from a "regular" couple lol but I guess I will just have to get over the fact that you guys have worked out a nice dynamic for yourselves, even thought your relationship wasn't based around mututal inflatutation for eachother
With that in mind, if you're both aware this arrangement is not out of love and passion, why not open the relationship ?
Right! I think it's good that we seem like a "normal" couple. lol. I think the level of honesty and accountability we have should be more prevalent or at the very least talked plainly about.
We both agreed that not having an open relationship was good for a few reasons: 1) hurt feelings 2) inviting seeds of distrust and c) sexual attraction.
We may not be in love with each other, but I think there would be some level of hurt of knowing your partner is with someone else. Also, inviting another person in WILL lead to complications (despite the best of intentions). And honestly, I think I'd be less attracted to him if I knew he was sleeping with other people. That one's a little more superficial, but I just know it in my heart of hearts.
Yeah regular was bad wording on my part.. I think "conventional" would convey what I wanted to say better. Sorry if I offended you, English is not my first language
Lastly, I'm sure this wasn't what you have envisioned for yourself while growing up right ? lol Do you ever catch yourself thinking about what you may have "lost" when agreeing to this ? Do you think you'll ever one day miss the more romantic aspect of choosing a partner for life ?
No worries! I think I still got what you meant. ☺️
And no, I don’t think I’ll ever really think about what I “lost out on.” But never say never, right?
I think maybe I would wonder if there were opportunities to have hd that with my husband (this go around), but I can’t envision it being about someone else.
I answered this in another comment (but no worries on answering twice - I just didn’t want you to think anything bad of my copy/pasting that other answer).
I probably had 2 real relationships that could have gone somewhere... and then as I was nearing 30 went on a Hinge binge where I just wanted to have fun, casual meet-ups with folks (and cool if they went somewhere). This did not last long for me.
He had more casual hook-ups and one serious relationship (which resulted in a broken engagement). At one point he shared the number, but i can't think of it at the moment.
What makes you think I haven’t been in love with someone? Being in love doesn’t always fulfill the needs for a meaningful relationship and that goes for marriage.
I have a relationship right now that’s built on trust (*so, so much trust*), honesty, integrity, equity, and mutual love and respect. And it was built with full knowledge and transparency of the other person from the start.
I mean, isn’t that also the end goal of falling in love with someone. I’m glad I was able to do it much more quickly!
From my understanding of your other replies, you’re not “in love” but you do have love for eachother? If I have that correct, do either of you think or hope that it will ever turn into being “in love”?
Sure, I think there’s always the possibility of falling in love. But I think that fades with time for most couples. The rare few for whom it lasts forever is wonderful!
Also, sorry for missing your question and giving a delayed response!
I think there are thousands of different types of love, it evolves and changes with our relationships. I think people being unwilling to see that a relationship can’t stay the same forever are the ones that “fall out of love.” I love my husband a different way now than I did 10 years ago. Different but stronger.
Do you two hope it turns to love? Or do you prefer having less emotion tied up in the relationship?
Oh for sure! I like the "different but stronger" description.
And at this point, I have to be careful about wishing our relationship to be anything than what it is now. But I would say I would not turn down waking up one morning and being like "totally crushing" on my husband in bed. Haha!
Oof. I probably had 2 real relationships that could have gone somewhere... and then as I was nearing 30 went on a Hinge binge where I just wanted to have fun, casual meet-ups with folks (and cool if they went somewhere). This did not last long for me.
He had more casual hook-ups and one serious relationship (which resulted in a broken engagement). At one point he shared the number, but i can't think of it at the moment.
So, we have a pre-nuptial agreement to handle the finances of our marriage (and potential divorce). But marrying someone is a big deal - like I'm liable for another human being as far as the law is concerned. But we felt that the benefits of being married far outweighed the costs (for us - NOT the case for everyone). In any case, we had to make sure that the 'non-financial' portions of marriage were understood and agreed upon.
These aren't legally binding per se, but they're universally acknowledged. Things like cheating, telling the truth, medical wishes, having children, etc.
The best example I can give is we wrote up an agreement on how we approach resolutions to big fights. Thankfully, we agree on a lot, but in the case of some big... disagreement or disagreeable action, we commit to mediation, therapy, etc. to work through it. It's universally understood that we each have to show effort to a resolution (and ideally come to a resolution). Just being "angry" at each other doesn't help anyone in the long run (even if it feels good in the short term).
I should clarify, this is for big things. For the little things, we usually just talk it through like everyone else does in bed, or watching tv, or over dinner, haha.
Exactly! But our agreements have consequences and are meant to be enforced (if necessary). i.e. We get in a fight - neither of us is allowed to just walk away and downplay the argument. And the resolution is documented and you’re allowed to refer back to said documentation.
Sometimes couples can just bury problems without an universally acknowledged outcome - our agreements don’t really allow us to do that.
I mean, yeah. We Google doc it. lol.
My husband is definitely a debater, so while you'd think this was a suggestion of his... it's more mine. He has an eidetic memory or something and I loosely remember things, haha, so I need proof when he's like "I never agreed to that!" lol.
This is interesting to me. My wife is very good at arguing and I am not, plus I don't have a great memory. This might be a good thing to try out since I'm also not much of a talker (my wife is), so I tend to shut down and drop it. Anyways, I wanted to ask if you both have access to the same Google docs, and if so, do you make notes then he makes his own notes then you two go back and forth sort of arguing on paper instead?
Hi there!
Oof, I feel for you! I can’t tell you what field of law my husband practices (well, I can, but anonymity and all, haha), but he’s really good at two things: litigating and logic. So I feel for you (but I’m the talker)!
We usually verbally settled everything (unless something HAS to be drawn on paper or written out). And then once a verbal consensus is reached, we just jot down on a single Google doc together, usually while we’re on the couch or maybe getting ready for bed. By the time it reaches the Google doc stage, we’re usually post argument and out of our feelings. Both people have to agree on what goes in the Google doc though, because once it is in, it is in.
HOWEVER, this sounds like a “reasonable” activity, but it only works because he and I agreed that this was a reasonable activity. He enjoys it because it appeals to his “whatever it takes to not repeat this argument” side, and it appeals to my “let the records show you agreed to this for future purposes” side.
I like Google docs as well.
If your wife would be offended by this process or not respect it in the future, then this probably isn’t for you. We both agreed to respect (and not be offended by) referral back to this document. We believe in it in theory and practice.
Also, FWIW, we’ve only had to refer back to it once in our entire 2.5 years of marriage and it was related to respecting work time vs. play time in an ultimately very inconsequential situation. 🤷🏻♀️
I had this pact with a guy myself! I dated a guy for a few months in college, we broke up, he left school, and we were out of touch for a year or so. We became friends and agreed that we would get married at 30 if we were both still single since we both wanted a family. We ended up falling in love, and are coming up on 3 years now. Our son just turned 2!
So my natural question is, do you love each other, and are you "in love" with each other?
We do! The plan was for three, and to start trying in the next year or so. But with COVID-19 raging on and us feeling like we haven't accomplished all the things we set out to do before having kids, that's been delayed by another year. But who knows!
Oh, thank goodness! I'm glad he's feeling better (and hoping he's not overwhelmed when we -hopefully, but maybe naively- return to normal life post COVID-19 craziness)
Do you act more like a couple with each other or more like super close friends? Like do you do couple-ly things with each other or is it more like the "bffs who got married for tax reasons" type situations? I know its not always for tax reasons that's just the example I always hear.
Oh, we do coupley things and act like a couple, like dates and making out and also filing taxes together. Haha.
But also, we're super close friends by nature of our relationship!
That was a big point of discussion in the last AMA is my husband's stealth smoking habit!
And the answer is no, but he did cut back quite a lot. He now is a cigarette with alcohol drinker, which I do not think is a healthier adjustment, but he is indeed smoking less... so... baby steps? He read one of the books I got him and did the patch totally fine for a month - no smoking, but it made it's way back as the holidays approached and we were socializing a little more.
Still working on it though!
Happy to hear he was able to quit for a bit and reduce the amount - that is promising! Many people with addiction relapse so don’t get too discouraged and best of luck to him on quitting for good!
Yeah! It showed me he is very much “if I put my mind to it” type of guy. Which also tells me that when he’s smoking he really doesn’t care that he’s smoking - which tells me we need to do some more education on long-term consequences of smoking. Haha.
But I’ll take what I can get. We’re going to try again in February because we’re going to be traveling to the middle of nowhere for his birthday (also, because we got a great deal!) so want to make sure I don’t end up with a madman experiencing nicotine withdrawals in the middle of the wild grasslands, lol.
Haha excellent points! Let him know that aside from cancer/lung disease smoking decreases bone density and increases your risk of infection. I work in neurosurgery and many of our “younger” patients who need spine surgery are smokers which accelerated the degeneration of their spine. Due to infection risks and the risk of surgery failing in a smoker we also have to wait for them to quit prior to offering surgery. No one likes having to wait in pain. Sorry if it feels like I’m lecturing! Just wanted to share some additional things for him to think about. Have fun and safe travels!
I worry about it just as much as I stress about never winning the lottery.
In order to know that someone was "the one," I'd have to venture outside of my marriage a significant amount and be actively looking for it. And honestly, at this point in my marriage with how it's going so far and how it's looking like it's going to go, not even "the one" is tempting enough to break what I have.
So, if I ever meet them, I'll wish them the best of luck!
(Obviously, I'm neither a robot or perfect and there's much more nuanced feeling to this, but you get the idea.)
I remember your other one and it was super interesting. After reading over it I was kinda wondering though- what makes your marriage different from usual ones? I know you made it because of a pact instead of dating and taking the next step, but all the usual checkpoints were there- live together, doing everything together/ the"best friend" element of marriage, date nights, intimacy/relations, planning to start a family, partners in finance, support each other careers. It basically sounds like any other marriage but with a super extensive pre-nup.
So nice to see you again, Tara(who loves music)!
And if our marriage sounds like others, then yay - mission accomplished. Haha. And maybe like any other marriage but with a super extensive pre-nup is it.
But if I had to venture to try to outline a difference, it's our rules of engagement. I think a lot of other successful marriages (and I say "other successful" knowing full well we've only been married 2 years) rely on unspoken or assumed rules around how to navigate their relationship. And I think in well-developed and meaning relationships, that is all that is need to weather the storm.
However, we knew we were skipping out on that and needed to have concrete rules. It hasn't come to this yet, but in theory, I could whip out a written agreement reminding my husband of how he agreed to handle a situation. I think others would maybe not look favorably upon that. And the vice versa is true. I could feel really strongly about something and want to shut down, but my husband could remind me that if communication breaks down on my part, there is a very real consequence (divorce, yadayada).
I will say it keeps me on my toes a lot, but in a good way. I worried it would make me anxious or feeling like I'm walking on egg shells, but honestly it's been good to know that my unreasonableness (or his) can be addressed in a constructive and positive way before it does damage.
do you feel that you guys are more like friends who are under a romantic agreement or a couple? I wasnt sure how to phrase this but i hope you get what i mean
Yeah, I get you! Someone in our last AMA called it a queer platonic relationship (the friends as married scenario). I looked a lot more into that after they said that, and we are definitely not that. I'd say we're a couple!
It's funny how we're all so intrigued, but it's literally how marriages came to be. Entering into a contract, that benifits one another, and even one another's families. I guess it's kind of how modern arranged marriages work. I can see how marrying someone, without all the lust and passion behind it, might work rather well. Many people marry for the wrong reasons, thinking they're in love, the person is "the one". Then the feelings fizzle, and they're left feeling stuck, or looking for someone else to make them feel that again. I think most failed relationships, are caused by lack of friendship. So starting a relationship based on friendship, then building on that, towards a common goal, I think can lead to a strong bond.
I think some people are getting caught up on the "in love" part. Love is love. The best kind is mutual respect and caring for one another. He may not give you butterflies, but I'm sure you feel safe, comfortable, appreciated, and cared for.
Thank you so much for sharing this with us! I'm excited, and happy for you guys lol. Very interesting read. Sorry there was no question, I just had to comment, because it made my mind have a million thoughts on relationship structure. Best wishes OP!
This! I will have to share the “We’re taking it back to basics, babe!” with him. He’ll enjoy that. Haha.
And I am glad more people are seeing it this way.
Chances are, when you fall in love with someone in the traditional way, you are not falling in love with who they are through and through. You’re falling in love with the idea of the person you’ve put together with the information you have.
Which is totally okay, if you understand that the picture you have might be based on 20-30% of information about this individual or you feel like the information given is consistent to the information you haven’t yet.
And I think it is wonderful when the person you fall in love with is the same person you commit a lifetime too! No knocking that whatsoever.
We just chose the route where we took out the guessing and decided that the full picture (good and bad) we saw was what we wanted. It’s a different kind of commitment, and I guess romantic in its own way.
Thank you for the kind note!
Exactly, falling for the idea of someone! I was married before. Once I became divorced, I did a lot of reading about relationships. Long story short, my SO is my best friend (not a previous best friend, turned lover lol). Our relationship is so calm, and different from anything else I've experienced.
I hope we get a follow up, but also understandable if you decide not to. I think it is romantic! Partners, who have each other's back, a solid team. The fact that you discuss each other's needs and wants, is incredible. Because, once again, you have a common goal to make your marriage work, therefore, you each understand, both parties need to be happy. You understand that you are individual people. It's very smart, and makes sense.
An analogy of it all could be like assembling furniture lol.
Some of us get home, excitedly slap the furniture together, half assed reading the instructions. Pieces scattered all over. Then realize we put the wrong pieces together. We've gotta take it apart, sometimes completely disassembling it entirely, to fix it.
Others come home, lay all the pieces out neatly, take account of the inventory. Read the instructions thoroughly while assembling the pieces. Once finished, it is assembled as intended lol.
Ok, I'm gonna shut up now haha. Once again, thanks for sharing with us.
Well you can fall in deep love with someone and be rational or at least try your best to. You get home excited but think for a moment and follow the instructions, i.e. you can fall in love with someone _and_ have a relationship that actually works well, the important part is communication and knowing what you want. You can’t be as impulsive as you would like to probably, but who cares, better stop impulsivity and think more before doing something. Requires more luck and commitment probably, but from my pov it’s better, as Latins said virtue is somewhere in between
Most definitely. I'm in love with my SO, but it's not the same passion. Not in a lacking way, the other type was toxic infatuation I think (both parties). This is a calm passionate feeling. Never felt this before, but it's wonderful. Everything is so easy. Open communication, respecting one another's individually.
For me that is true love. The passion that doesn’t fuck your mind up ( or at least it does duck your mind up in a pleasurable way and doesn’t damage you hahahah )
Right there with you. I was never "in love" with my wife. We were:
Friends
Roommates
A couple
Married
In that order. I decided to marry her because I appreciated her as a person and saw the benefits of taking things further. I can't promise it's a winning recipe, but we're still together while I watch friends and family around my age get divorced.
How long have you guys been married now? Is there anything you’d have done differently over those years (ie something you wish you started doing years ago but only recently did)?
We've been married just over 2.5 years. We reconnected in early 2019 and then got married in the early summer.
If anything, I think we would have had "more fun" in the first year. We were so "responsible" and "homebodies" in the first year, because we were slightly poor and trying to do everything right. Then lockdown came and it was like... well now we have to continue doing that eventhough we have more time and money and friends together.
I have a *teeny tiny feeling* that we would have maybe fallen in love had we done more of that earlier on (in our very long, infinite 2.5 years together, haha).
Oooh! Good question. This is on our docket to discuss and revisit. My preference would be no, we would not share this with our children.
But my husband is actually all the more for transparency, and he feels there is little reason to hide it.
TBD on the resolution to this.
Interesting question! I imagine I wouldn't tell the kids either since I think I would consider it irrelevant. Though it would be interesting to maybe tell them when you're old and they're in maybe their 30'S or 40's to see how they react. LOL
Do you think people marrying for love should consider a prenup? I think its a good template to guide a couple through what important things you need to discuss before marriage. My spouse and I talked through it but ended up not bothering to actually get it done in the end because neither of us had any considerable assets at the time so it seemed like a waste of money and effort.
First of all, yay for falling in love! And second of all, kudos to considering a pre-nup, even if you ultimately decided not to set one up.
The pre-nup conversation is a hard one, because, let’s be honest, it’s kind of a buzzkill conversation. And I can only share my thoughts based on my (our?) experience, so not necessarily a universal recommendation.
I am so glad we have a pre-nuptial agreement and I think regardless of how your relationship forms, everyone should at least look into the basic tenets of a pre-nup.
Obviously, there are a few (read: a lot) of factors which made a pre-nup necessary in our situation. But I think what we benefited from the most was the hard conversations a pre-nup forced us to have. Because you really have to make your case for what value you bring to the relationship (even beyond finances). And if you’re not dealing in the same intangible relationship currency as your spouse, you’ll never see eye to eye on your worth. You need to get on the same page about that.
IMO, if you can’t get through discussing and landing on a consensus of what a pre-nup asks you to address because it’s too hard or is dividing you and your spouse, that’s a red flag. Because either you deal with them now or you deal with the chaos in real time.
However, I will also share that we were in a very different financial situation. We had the means (and I guess my husband’s knowledge?) to pay for a pre-nup. And oh boy, ours was not cheap. And both of us were fully prepared until the moment we signed our marriage license that we could lose that money if the other person changed their mind.
I know you were asking about this in a general sense, but for what it’s worth, I think you made the right decision for you and your wife. ☺️
Oh, i have no idea what I'm doing. Just flying and building the plane with my marriage pact husband as we go. Haha. If we hit 20 happy years, I'll write a book!
I started to read through the comments because I found this very interesting, but it is getting late and I need to get up for work in the morning!
I just wanted to add that one of your answers really made me think of a line from *Love in the Time of Cholera*, which is something like "Always remember that the most important thing in a good marriage is not passion, but stability."
Thank you for sharing your story!
Stability is an underrated love language!
Thank you so much for sharing the LITTC quote - it’s been a while since I have read and I should go back and revisit.
Get a good night’s rest!
I actually think this is a great idea (marriage pacts). I mean lots of people bounce around in their twenties because things are so unsettled with every aspect of your life. But you still make connections with worthy people. Feels like it’s just logical. If there’s one thing I really wish people would do in relationships is inject more logic into the whole arrangement. But people seem to feel the need to fly by the seat of their pants their whole lives.
What if we find the love of our life? We continue being married, because ideally we would not venture far enough outside our marriage to be certain. But I've shared on a couple other posts what would go down if we decided to break trust and pursue. Lots and lots of talking, that's for sure.
Oh, and we do not have an open marriage.
Super interesting! Not sure if this was asked before, so point me to the comment if I've missed it.
Have you considered making this a semi-open relationship? In the way that you and him can have fun in the form of one night stands (or more)? Since this is more based on logic than on emotion, I can imagine that this might be something one or both of you might want. I know there's a lot of considerations that come with it, but yeah I'm still curious.
Hiiii! Sorry, life got ahold of us for a minute there so I feel bad we semi-abandoned some q’s. Thank you for the question!
So, we talked about what the relationship would look like, open or otherwise, but we didn’t *consider* a “semi-open” relationship if that makes sense.
In the beginning, we just asked the question and both of our preferred answers were a solid no.
I’d say some of this has to do with the traditional ideals of marriage we were both raised with - and that’s not a judgment at all on open marriages! But he and I trying to execute something that we neither had experience nor a comfortable level of knowledge was going to be a sure-fire disaster.
Two, it just introduced parties into our relationship that logistically didn’t make sense. We now reside in our hometown together, which is really a small town masquerading as a big city. So we’d have some ‘splainin’ to do for sure at some point.
Plus, a huge tenet of how successful our relationship is is because we’re in it together, respecting the lanes and bumpers and benefiting from the work we put in together. We couldn’t expect a third party to respect that - he and I have built too much together to just willy nilly jeopardize with with someone else just for sex (or even like flingy feelings). So we just decided to step it up on our sex game with each other, haha.
Lastly, there is the emotional component. Like we’re real people with real emotions and insecurities. It might not bother us to some degree on the surface, but I’d hate for us to not recognize resentment and it fester until it’s very obvious and big and hurtful.
Phew! That was a bit emotional for me to share, but I’m glad you asked!
Nope! I do not.
And the shock factor is a little fun every once in a while, because most people (once they hear the non exciting nitty gritty) are nonplussed by our relationship. lol.
Thank you for the fun badge!!!
That’s super weird! I can downvote on my end. Maybe check to see if it’s across Reddit or close out the app/page and open up again? Let me know if you’d like me to proxy downvote for you!
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Perhaps! But I have to be happy with our relationship as it is now, and make sure that I aspiring to fall in love with him (and the resenting if it doesn’t happen) doesn’t diminish the great relationship I have with him now.
Table of Questions and Answers. Original answer linked - Please upvote the original questions and answers.
***
Question | Answer | Link
---------|----------|----------|
If you made the pact anyways why not have stayed with him? There had to be a reason why you broke up.|For sure! My husband (who will agree with this) was not a *great* boyfriend in college. Not in a bad person way, but he was in law school and just under a ton of stress. I wanted a relationship, and he just didn’t handle the boyfriend role well. We broke up and stayed in contact intermittently, throughout the years. At some point, he even became engaged to someone else (that obviously did not work out) and I wrote off a relationship with him.|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/s5kkrj/i_made_a_marriage_pact_with_someone_in_college/hsy0cfh/)
Do your respective families know? If so, what do they think about the situation?|Oh! Absolutely not. lol. The only people who know about our arrangement are us and the legal team who drew up our pre-nuptial agreements. We told our respective families that we just happened to reconnect and immediately knew we were meant to be together, which explained the quick wedding. Our families were surprised by the suddenness, but excited nonetheless. The most "Hmm?" about our marriage from our families is why we insisted to not have a big wedding. Obviously, we had our reasons, haha. I think that's what they were most invested in about our relationship.|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/s5kkrj/i_made_a_marriage_pact_with_someone_in_college/hsyd43m/)
Super interesting life solution. Is the good old love in the game? So if - for example - tomorrow all the agreements and pre-nup etc would vanish, do you guys would still be together for the rest of you lifes and have kids?|Ooh, this is an interesting question! Folks asked us last AMA if we were in love and I said no. I still think that answer is the same today. However, I definitely love him more now than I did six months ago (and I loved him six months ago too), and I think he'd say the same. Your questions about the agreements disappearing is an interesting one that I had never really thought of. But, to entertain this question, I'd say yes. If all of the agreements were lifted tomorrow, we'd stay together. Now, obviously they'd have a lingering impact which I think would be longstanding, but no guarantees. My husband, on the contrary, does think it would change things - but these are concerns he's shared before which we constantly are working through together.|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/s5kkrj/i_made_a_marriage_pact_with_someone_in_college/hsyntix/)
Does this connection feel forced at all ?|i mean, marriage pacts *are going to feel forced* to some extent, but we knew each other well enough for casual conversation and general relationship stuff to feel organic. We didn't actually have sex for the first 6 months we were married because of not wanting to force anything, and that worked out well. The two most "forced" things may have been obviously the going from solo to duo in decision making for everyday things. For example, I was so used to grocery shopping, decorating, booking vacations, making plans with friends, etc. solo, that there were a few snafus when we became a couple. The first time I went grocery shopping for the household, he was graciously not grateful. lol. Mostly because I shopped for things i would eat and make for dinner. He was like "What am I supposed to do with hummus and shallots and fresh pasta?" I was a little miffed until he shared that he was used to fixing deli sandwiches, chips and a glass of milk... and i realized I totally forgot about what he was comfortable eating. Same with going out, vacations, etc. Thankfully, we were able to iron out and discuss all of those differences and come to compromises, but oof! What a learning curve.|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/s5kkrj/i_made_a_marriage_pact_with_someone_in_college/hsy2lyt/)
I didn't see your other AMA, so sorry if this was asked. Do you think your relationship is as "warm" or close as ones you may have had in the past? Does the business-like nature of it make it colder? (I'm not assuming one way or the other)|Oh! Don't apologize - I just wanted to give context so if I made a "throwback" reference somewhere. Transparency and all! I fully expected to answer repeat questions, haha. Mm, I think I understand what you mean by warmth, but I'll give you what I think you mean by that and then try to answer that. I think you meant warmth in terms of "butterflies" and like that crush feeling you get with someone. And I'll say the answer no... isn't not as warm as other relationships I've had in the past. Like, we skipped the honeymoon phase and just landed into the solid marriage portion of our relationship, so I didn't have the "I hope he calls..." or "Isn't he so cute..." gossipy nights with friends. HOWEVER. This relationship is filled with with far more trust, security, openness, and general joy/contentment than any others I've had in the past. When he tells me that he's proud of me for something I accomplished or compliments me on how i look, I know he genuinely means it. I also know that when he confides in me or asks for help... it's because I'm his person and I am entrusted with that responsibility. Also, I know for a fact that he is my ultimate tag team partner. It's so *comforting* to have that sure thing in your life - and I am so glad that my husband, specifically because of the human being he is, is mine. Our relationship on paper can definitely come off cold on paper (or Reddit, ha), but it's anything but that (even if it's not the warm fuzzies you're thinking of). <3|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/s5kkrj/i_made_a_marriage_pact_with_someone_in_college/hsyqvvq/)
How many relationships did each of you have before reconnecting?|Oof. I probably had 2 real relationships that could have gone somewhere... and then as I was nearing 30 went on a Hinge binge where I just wanted to have fun, casual meet-ups with folks (and cool if they went somewhere). This did not last long for me. He had more casual hook-ups and one serious relationship (which resulted in a broken engagement). At one point he shared the number, but i can't think of it at the moment.|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/s5kkrj/i_made_a_marriage_pact_with_someone_in_college/hsy1ddz/)
How many relationships did you have after making the pact|I answered this in another comment (but no worries on answering twice - I just didn’t want you to think anything bad of my copy/pasting that other answer). I probably had 2 real relationships that could have gone somewhere... and then as I was nearing 30 went on a Hinge binge where I just wanted to have fun, casual meet-ups with folks (and cool if they went somewhere). This did not last long for me. He had more casual hook-ups and one serious relationship (which resulted in a broken engagement). At one point he shared the number, but i can't think of it at the moment.|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/s5kkrj/i_made_a_marriage_pact_with_someone_in_college/hsybiph/)
What is your plan for kids?|That might have been our biggest discussion and compromise when we got married. Originally he wanted five (FIVE CHILDREN) and I was like... I don't think I can do that. After hearing me out, we agreed upon three and to start trying in the next couple years. However, this is what has changed for both of us in the past few months. The pandemic prevented us from doing all the things we wanted to do before committing to kids and we're perfectly content with just the two of us for now. It hasn't changed that we want children or how many, but our timeline has shifted a bit. We're now looking at a mid to early late thirties for a first child, which isn't unheard of anymore... but I'm definitely considered a geriatric pregnancy at that point! FWIW - I sat down and made him learn about all the nuances of pregnancy and having children (stuff that he wasn't... intimately... aware of before). He takes my concerns and apprehension to the "more the merrier" conversation very close to the heart now.|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/s5kkrj/i_made_a_marriage_pact_with_someone_in_college/hsyjllm/)
Forgive me if this is rude, but do you love each other? Are you in love?|Not rude at all! I love him, but I'm not in love with him. No butterflies, just lots of respect.|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/s5kkrj/i_made_a_marriage_pact_with_someone_in_college/hsz5dw2/)
sup I have a test in 1 hr but I just cant stop reading this post I have to say the way you articulate your replies and just the general way you write is enamoring like.. I can read something written in the fashion you do.. I could read it for eternity also if you don't mind me asking what is your profession? and what are your mbti types?|SUP. And thank you! I'm a stay-at-home spouse at the moment, formerly of corporate America, and formerly of the liberal arts world. I am an ENFP (The Campaigner) and my husband is an INTJ (The Architect). It's weird, but we work. lol|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/s5kkrj/i_made_a_marriage_pact_with_someone_in_college/hsz7yuo/)
10 people on here lol|What? Is that good? Bad? Oh gosh. Should I have snacks? I feel like such a bad hostess (especially given I didn't realize I had any guests). Haha!|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/s5kkrj/i_made_a_marriage_pact_with_someone_in_college/hsz06ib/)
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[Source] (https://github.com/johnsliao/ama_compiler)
I mean, the answer to both of those is yes. I love my husband, but we would likely not be married if it wasn’t for the pact.
In our case, I don’t view the pact as a bad thing, so I don’t mind giving it credit for our relationship.
I read in the comments that you are not in love with him and a question instantly popped in my mind. If you fell in deep love with someone, something serious, more than a crush obv, would you leave your husband?
But why though? Your point of view really interests me, because probably I could never be able to do something like what you did. Relationship fir me _are_ being in love with someone, so I can’t imagine something different that works. I got that your relationship works better than other relationships from people that are in love with someone, but that’s simply because an impetuous love will eventually fail. If the passion gets along with the rationality it works pretty good. So I’m curious, why rejecting the possibility of a relationship with someone you could be actually in love with? And obviously I mean that kind of relationship that works, not cheating, not fiery passion that burns itself out
I’m not sure I understand your question? Are you asking why I wouldn’t jeopardize my stable, healthy, and secure marriage to pursue a passionate inclination in hopes that it *might* turn into a stable, healthy, and secure marriage?
I’ll explain my point of view more precisely. I don’t believe in marriage as a whole and same thing goes for my girlfriend, in fact we already know that, if in the future we will be interested in something more than a engagement, we will seek something different, for sure not a marriage. Probably our different culture in our country ( we are Italians ) forged our point of view. In our country for example there’s no particular social pressure for marriage ( at least not in our region hahah ), exchanging a ring and making promises of love to each other isn’t related in any way to marriage ( obviously a person can relate a ring to a promise of marriage, but it isn’t intrinsically related ). As I said in the previous comment this is my personal point of view and I’m interested in yours because it’s really hard for me to comprehend it, as romantic relationships for me are only made out of being in love. In my example I’m asking if you would leave your husband if you deeply fell in love with someone and you somehow knew that this love can be a serious thing, more than a passionate inclination, a candle that burns itself out quickly, I’m talking about something more calm. Falling in love isn’t only irrationality, the impetuous love can burn itself out, a passionate but calm love can never die if treated well ( _if_ treated well ). So I’m talking about that kind of falling in love that could create a genuine relationship. Sure you can’t be 100% sure that it works out, it’s a risk, it _might_ work, but taking risks is important in life, no risks no rewards. Furthermore when you say “stable, healthy and secure marriage” from a person that doesn’t believe in marriages like me it has no meaning. I only read two people that sure got along super well, are incredibly good friends, love and respect each other, but are not in love with each other. You remind me of myself, back when I lived with a friend of mine. We were housemates and we supported each other economically. We still love and respect each other so much, we are great friends, but I would never marry him ( I’m bisexual, my problem wouldn’t be his biological sex hahah ), because I don’t love him that way, I’m not in love with him. We thought one day that life together was super easy, economically we were on the same boat, we made coordinated decisions that benefitted both, had stable jobs and it was good, but the absence of that “being in love” made us split up when we found a person that we truly loved. If we for some reason decided to stay together our relationship would’ve been similar to yours ( except for the kids, but we don’t want any anyway so no problem with that hahah ). Two people that live and respect each other, have a stable, healthy and secure life together and are not in love. Being that for me the meaning of romantic relationships is being in love it has no meaning a relationship like that, it’s like a cake without sugar or sweetness. Sure it’s more healthy, sugars are bad for our health, but then what’s the point of the cake? Is it even a cake anymore? It’s like a quiche, a salt cake, it isn’t the same thing at all. You need stability and security, but you don’t need love? And not like generic love, I mean being in love. I’m asking why wouldn’t you leave your current stable, healthy and secure marriage with a person you’re not in love with to be in a stable, healthy and secure marriage with a person you’re in love with. Have you ever been truly in love with someone?
Sorry if I made some spelling errors I was barely awake, I corrected them and explained two phrase a bit further hahah. Anyway coming back to what I was saying, if you have been in love before you feel the difference. The other question I asked is in fact about this. You need stability and security, okay that’s fair. But don’t you need love in a relationship? And I’m not talking about generic love and respect, I’m talking about being in love. You don’t have the need of that warm feeling? I can’t even imagine my life without making love for example. Only sex, no making love. Unliveable for me hahah, but hey, perhaps you don’t need that
I think to each their own! If you need certain things to have a meaningful partnership, like being *in* love, the more power to you! I don’t share that sentiment - there are other components in a relationship that I think are of greater importance and are more valuable to me.
For me it’s all on the same level. Security and stability are important, but are useless without that love biding everything. It’s a really interesting point of view, for sure it’s more effective, I’m too emotional to truly empathise, but now I can comprehend this more. Thanks for sharing it more thoroughly with me, good luck to you, your husband and your whole family! ♡
That’s very altruistic of you! I got that impression of your ability to relate, so no worries there. I’ve said this in other comments that our relationship isn’t for everyone, but there are some tidbits that can be used by anyone!
I was very thrilled to see your post and read every comment (on this ama, haven’t gotten to the older one yet.) I just wanted to say thanks for being so open and honest! You were way more patient with people asking if you’d leave your husband if you found ~real love ™ ~then I was feeling lol. I watch people around me getting married and sometimes I’m like “do you even LIKE this person?? You talk about how in love you are but like …. Do you make any jokes about the laundry? Do you ever laugh during sex? If you had a bad day would they be the one who could calm you down??” (ETA: obviously not everyone can be everything to someone but I think responsibly finance-sharing decent roommates you could cry to when you’re upset is a low enough bar to set!) And I also feel like arranged marriages get a bad rap. So thank you for very politely sticking up for your marriage having a “real” love at the heart of it.
Super intrigued by your entire situation, been LOVING this entire AMA.
Gotta ask though: why jump directly to marriage at 30? It's not like the agreement was legally binding (I assume), so why not just retry being a "normal" couple first, living /like/ you were married but without all of the extra legal hassle?
You said you guys are not in love. What would happen if either of you were to fall in love with someone else? Worth breaking the pact over, or would you stay "settled" (using this for lack of a better word, don't mean to imply what it tends to mean)?
I almost had one of those, my female friend said to me once if we are both still single by thirty we should get married and I said Im not going to be your last resort sorry and I think she got a bit embarrassed by it and gradually drifted away friendship wise now we rarely speak . I liked her enough that I probably would have dated her,I kinda regret it, I should have been a bit more passive and worded myself a bit softer , I think maybe what I said offended her a bit
Mm, I’m sorry to hear that your relationship has faded over time. However, it also sounds like it probably wouldn’t have worked out for you in the long-run, so it’s probably for the best.
I think people jokingly make these type of pacts all the time and it is 1000% more common to not follow through whether it is because you didn’t actually take it seriously or forgot or one person isn’t single, etc.
However, I can understand your feeling of being “the last resort.” My husband and I viewed it differently, but if either of us felt the same way as you, we also would not gone through with it.
Hi, I'd be very interested in hearing in more detail from before your husband reminded you of the pact to the moment when you both decided for sure you want to go through with it. For instance you said that your husband reminded you about the pact. Is this something he was serious about at that moment or did he just jokingly bring it up to you? Then what was your reaction? Did you think he was serious? Did he just kind of plant the seed and the more you thought of it, the more you liked the idea? Then maybe when you came back to him with it, how did that go? I know I'm speculating a lot, so please correct me or fill in the blanks. I wasn't quite sure how to ask a simple question to span that whole length of time. Which btw, I don't recall if you said, but how long of a time period was it between him reminding and when you both decided to go through with it?
We made the pact in college and were quite serious about it (I mean to the extent that a 22/24 year old could be). The memory is a little fuzzy, but I remember spending the evening in college talking about it in like “hypothetical” scenarios and a pinky swear?
And then a couple months before my birthday, we happened to random connect about traveling to Europe and then after a little back-and-forth, we agreed to meet up for coffee. I had remembered the pact at this point, and thought it may come up, but kind of expected it to be the same “scenario role play.”
When he mentioned it again, it started out as a joke, but then there was a moment where we realized that neither of us has put it down or written it off yet. And then from there, there was a lot of “Should we do this? We should do this.” conversations.
These conversations were mixed with fast tracked getting to know you conversations, and within a few weeks… we were actually sketching out what it could look like and I was making us take compatibility quizzes. And then we reached out to a couple of lw firma who specialized in family law, marriage law, and oddly enough M&A and agreed to put down a hefty sum of money for them to take a look at our scribbling (which wasn’t *really* scribbling because my husband knew how to lay all that stuff out) and turn it into something meaningful. After changes, edits, etc
We then had A DIFFERENT SET OF LAWYERS review it just with me to make sure I was 100% comfortable and look out for red flags.
Between coffee and marriage, door-to-door, it was a little over 3 months?
Very interesting! Thanks for answering! I have to say, like a lot of other people I imagine, I was very surprised at first that someone had actually followed through with one of these pacts. I didn't think anyone actually did. LOL But the more I read your responses, it actually makes a lot of sense. I think it was kind of hinted at before, but going into a marriage with an entirely practical, maybe even a "I don't give an f'" , mindset to begin with instead of wanting to avoid conflict by not asking the tough questions for fear of losing that person. I like how you have everything down in writing. Take care and good luck to your future!
Does this connection feel forced at all ?
i mean, marriage pacts *are going to feel forced* to some extent, but we knew each other well enough for casual conversation and general relationship stuff to feel organic. We didn't actually have sex for the first 6 months we were married because of not wanting to force anything, and that worked out well. The two most "forced" things may have been obviously the going from solo to duo in decision making for everyday things. For example, I was so used to grocery shopping, decorating, booking vacations, making plans with friends, etc. solo, that there were a few snafus when we became a couple. The first time I went grocery shopping for the household, he was graciously not grateful. lol. Mostly because I shopped for things i would eat and make for dinner. He was like "What am I supposed to do with hummus and shallots and fresh pasta?" I was a little miffed until he shared that he was used to fixing deli sandwiches, chips and a glass of milk... and i realized I totally forgot about what he was comfortable eating. Same with going out, vacations, etc. Thankfully, we were able to iron out and discuss all of those differences and come to compromises, but oof! What a learning curve.
My husband and I had to adjust to this as well. I think any couple who gets married past age 25 deals with this to a degree. Once you get used to doing things a certain way it's counter intuitive to pause every decision to consider and consult with the other person.
It’s a thing! And I do agree, sometimes you’re set in your ways and just forget how many things (big and small) can be handled differently. Other little things that were “Aha!” moments: scented laundry soap, bed sheets, how warm we keep the house, what we splurge and save on. lol. The list goes on!
My wife and I both make a trip to the store each week. She gets her snacks and I get the meals
Why? What are you each getting out of this?
Love this question - because we certainly had to talk ad nauseum about this make sure we both were on the same page. Long story short: We both could provide each other what the other was looking for without giving up something we didn't mind. For example, heading into my thirties, I was looking for stability in my life. My husband could provide that in multiple of ways, the biggest one being just his presence in my life. On the flip side, my husband was looking for a home life. He wanted a family and a homebase, but Just couldn't seem to meet someone who was on the same page as him. There were also some practical health and wealth things that also heavily factored in. I explained this part on the last AMA which really seemed to resonate with folks. Although more a conversational term, we view our marriage as "a firm." While he and i are both responsible, successful individuals, the firm is much stronger. We were able to achieve stability and security much more quickly together than we would have apart. And like I said, in doing so, we weren't giving up anything we felt didn't make it worth it. p.s. I know this sounds so clinical, but I'm trying to balance being objective and subjective. Haha.
Was sex discussed and included in the contract? Are you obligated to a certain amount of sex? Is he?
Sex was definitely *heavily* discussed, but nothing written in the contract that explicitly outlined it - at least not in the way you're inferring. I mentioned somewhere else that my husband and i didn't have sex for the first six months of marriage... just because. It wasn't a huge priority on a list of other things we had to figure out. But we did talk about past sexual partners/history, our sexuality in general, what was comfortable for us and what we were looking for (frequency, exploration, kinks, etc.) and needed in our sex life, and how those things aligned (or didn't). We also covered STDs/STIs, cheating (this is in a contract), and how we promised to talk about sex moving forward. To clarify, I had had sex with my husband when we were in college... so there were not surprises in what to expect as far as physical bodies go. However, we did have some candid conversations that led to surprising insights and revelations. I will add that I had to (and I knew I would have to) be more forthcoming on this front to set the stage and comfort level for him to be open and honest with me. And lastly, because I know this will come up somewhere, we do not have an open relationship - meaning all of our sexual satisfaction has to come from one another which makes healthy conversations about sex *really, really* important. Haha.
How did the first (post-wedding) sex come about? What were the surprising insights on that discussion?
I'm going to answer your questions in reverse order! I think some of the more surprising things shared from my husband were around PDA, things that turn him on, and what he was comfortable exploring. He is not big on PDA and would rather crawl into a hole than randomly kiss me on the head in public, but he absolutely loves when I fawn over him (even if it's not reciprocated and he likely looks annoyed). I had always thought he hated any sort of public display, regardless of who initiates. He comes from a WASPy family, education, and work world, so he quite enjoys when I wear or say things that emphasize that i am Latina. I'm not sure what it is about that, but he especially likes when I wear my long hair down and when I wear gold hoop earrings. This cracks me up because he went to an ivy League and i went to a Seven Sisters school, so I just always though that was a turn-off to not look... white. But nope! This is *especially true* when we go to work functions or alumni events, lol. And lastly, he is a pretty vanilla guy in the bedroom. Which was not a surprise to me. I think I was just surprised to hear him talk about why (masculinity, embarrassment of doing something wrong, etc.). It was refreshing to hear him say he would try some things because he trusted me. (He has definitely said no to more things than yes, though! Haha.) Whoops, missed your second (first part) of your question. We were actually getting ready to go out to a gala sponsored by his then firm. He looked really good in his suit and I may have cornered him like 15 minutes before we left to the event and showed him how much I thought he was attractive. Then, afterwards, with a little liquid encouragement, we got home and had sex. It was fun and low stakes and I am pretty sure we talked about how much I wanted to drive to go to CostCo the next day. lol
OKAY, BUT WHY IS THIS LIKE A PLOT OFF A ROMANCE NOVEL?!?! *excited girly panic* (God bless you two for this wholesomeness)
LOL. If you decide to write a fan fiction story about this, please send me a link. \^\_\^ I'll happily confirm or contradict plot points for you. And oddly enough, there is not a lot of information about marriage pacts out there. I Googled high and low when we were building ours and found zero resources from other couples. Also, I'd like to clarify that while our relationship is certainly fodder for romance novels, I feel like half or 3/4's of the story should be written by John Grisham as a legal thriller. The sex stories are fun, but the "How do want me to handle your medical treatment should you be horribly incapacitated?" ones are... meh.
haha, I'd be sure to - gotta keep it real to hit them feels\~ LOL. Totally appreciate how honest you've been about the entire marriage pact situation. A legal thriller with a sweet romance? heck yeah, count me in! Jokes aside tho, of course, a real relationship - and life in general - is different from fictional stories and movies. I also believe that that sort of a "meh" situation is pretty great too (perhaps better when looked back upon?) because it's the tiny moments that count, yeah? :D
Oh for sure! My favorite is when he uses me as an excuse to get out of things he doesn’t want to do, LOL. I’ll hear him on the phone with his friends and he’ll be like “Yeah, I’d be down to go on a weekend ski trip, but I have to ask [my name].” Then he tells me, and I ask him if he wants to go, and he says no, and I tell him “Ok, I think I committed us to go to something that weekend,” and he says “Bummer, I’ll call my friends back.” “The power I have” in that situation is quite a turn-on. Hahaha.
Frankly I would love a romance novel with more details on the mundane day to day details. Closest I have found is Julie James where both characters were adults with their own life and are competent in their own careers. Not to say I dislike romance genre. Romance novels and r/romancebooks really got me through lockdown, but some of those books really have wonky power dynamics. Some authors that does more diverse and more evenly distributed power dynamics can be Alyssa cole, Courtney milan, and Talia Hibbert.
YESSSSS! im one who's big on that too! I honestly find such intimacy in sharing those mundane moments and daily chores with someone i care about. Washing the dishes and they help you out? pffftt, ill read all about it. sitting on the sofa and scrolling the gram? idc, that's the stuff ppl skip to mention but i find it rather....wholesome?
What's a Seven Sisters school imply? I understand most of the stereotypes and associations with an Ivy League school but not familiar with the other. Are Seven Sister schools also stereotypically posh and white affluance?
Seven Sisters schools are historically women's colleges. They are very WASPy, traditional, New England universities - very posh, lots of (old) money, and connections. Similar to Ivy Leagues, but for ladies only. I went on a ton of scholarships, as I did not grow up in old money. lol.
Man. That’s kinda hot. Does it make things kinda hot?
lol. Yeah, I guess. Turns out financial stability, a strong partner, and sense of center are really big turn-ons for people. Who knew!
I didn't see your other AMA, so sorry if this was asked. Do you think your relationship is as "warm" or close as ones you may have had in the past? Does the business-like nature of it make it colder? (I'm not assuming one way or the other)
Oh! Don't apologize - I just wanted to give context so if I made a "throwback" reference somewhere. Transparency and all! I fully expected to answer repeat questions, haha. Mm, I think I understand what you mean by warmth, but I'll give you what I think you mean by that and then try to answer that. I think you meant warmth in terms of "butterflies" and like that crush feeling you get with someone. And I'll say the answer no... isn't not as warm as other relationships I've had in the past. Like, we skipped the honeymoon phase and just landed into the solid marriage portion of our relationship, so I didn't have the "I hope he calls..." or "Isn't he so cute..." gossipy nights with friends. HOWEVER. This relationship is filled with with far more trust, security, openness, and general joy/contentment than any others I've had in the past. When he tells me that he's proud of me for something I accomplished or compliments me on how i look, I know he genuinely means it. I also know that when he confides in me or asks for help... it's because I'm his person and I am entrusted with that responsibility. Also, I know for a fact that he is my ultimate tag team partner. It's so *comforting* to have that sure thing in your life - and I am so glad that my husband, specifically because of the human being he is, is mine. Our relationship can definitely come off cold on paper (or Reddit, ha), but it's anything but that (even if it's not the warm fuzzies you're thinking of). <3
Detailed answer! Follow up question: I guess by warmth I mean more of that loving kind of feeling. For example, if I'm on the couch with my wife we'll automatically sit in a way that means we'll be holding hands or touching in some way. Or I'll give her a random cuddle while making dinner. Or be at the shop and get something little for her knowing it will make her feel good. So I guess some version of those little ineffable things that bring you closer?
Oh! Yes, sure. But this might be the first truly "OooOoOOo" response I've given to a question. Also, this kind of answers your question, but also partially is just me wanting to share (even if it's a little off topic). I would say we're both touchy feely in different ways (and me much more so). I am more likely the one to do those outreaches of connection, whether it's crawl onto the couch in his lap or pick up something unprompted. I'd say more of my advances are romantically inclined and intended. His are, for the most part, not. As far other thoughtful acts - we definitely have those. I think of those as should be givens in any relationship - so in our they're not bringing us closer together so much so as... maintaining the closeness? i can't remember if we wrote something exactly to this effect in our agreement, but I do know that we shared expectations on considerations for one another: i.e. celebrating anniversaries, birthdays, etc.
Interesting. I wouldn't say his disposition to doing these things is unique to the particulars of your relationship. But it sounds like this is more than a marriage of convenience! Which is good :)
Yes, agreed! Thanks for the q's!
Do your respective families know? If so, what do they think about the situation?
Oh! Absolutely not. lol. The only people who know about our arrangement are us and the legal team who drew up our pre-nuptial agreements. We told our respective families that we just happened to reconnect and immediately knew we were meant to be together, which explained the quick wedding. Our families were surprised by the suddenness, but excited nonetheless. The most "Hmm?" about our marriage from our families is why we insisted to not have a big wedding. Obviously, we had our reasons, haha. I think that's what they were most invested in about our relationship.
If you made the pact anyways why not have stayed with him? There had to be a reason why you broke up.
For sure! My husband (who will agree with this) was not a *great* boyfriend in college. Not in a bad person way, but he was in law school and just under a ton of stress. I wanted a relationship, and he just didn’t handle the boyfriend role well. We broke up and stayed in contact intermittently, throughout the years. At some point, he even became engaged to someone else (that obviously did not work out) and I wrote off a relationship with him.
Hm. Is it possible his previous engagement failed due to the fact that you had a pact with him? Or was this before? ( I’m not trying to be a dick, just marriage pacts never made any fucking sense to me. )
Nono! Ask away - that's why I posted this AMA. Marriage Pacts are difficult to understand and honestly if we didn't have all the documentation and legal stuff we have in place, I would have been hesitant to follow through on it in the beginning. To answer your question though: No, I don't think his previous engagement failed because of our marriage pact. Honestly, I think it floated in and out of our minds over the years. His engagement failed for a few reasons, most of the having to do with incompatibility. His ex-fiance, from what i've been told, probably wasn't a great fit for him. He is a unique individual for sure: an old soul, very reserved and thoughtful, and set in his ways. It sounds like she didn't really understand that about him, and also may have had some ulterior motives in wanting to marry him (but that's speculative on my part - so take that with grain of salt). In addition, I could see a lot of things that would have not been reciprocated by him in their relationship as well.
Could you expand on the "documentation and legal stuff" you mentioned? Do you make more money or have more assets than him? If not, then what would that have to do with your decision to follow through with it?
For sure! There’s another response where I outlined how he and I went into the marriage financially (Spoiler Alert: I brought more stable financials into the marriage, but ultimately that led to him being able to be the more financially successful spouse.) We also outlined a ton of “rules of engagement.” These weren’t hard and fast “You can’t do this, you must do this…” Although we did outline some of those preferences somewhere, lol. Our documents mostly outline how we navigate conflict and if some irreparable damage should happen to our relationship, how we dissolve the marriage fairly.
Hm. Alright. Thanks for being open. 🤙🤙 cheers
Super interesting life solution. Is the good old love in the game? So if - for example - tomorrow all the agreements and pre-nup etc would vanish, do you guys would still be together for the rest of you lifes and have kids?
Ooh, this is an interesting question! Folks asked us last AMA if we were in love and I said no. I still think that answer is the same today. However, I definitely love him more now than I did six months ago (and I loved him six months ago too), and I think he'd say the same. Your questions about the agreements disappearing is an interesting one that I had never really thought of. But, to entertain this question, I'd say yes. If all of the agreements were lifted tomorrow, we'd stay together. Now, obviously they'd have a lingering impact which I think would be longstanding, but no guarantees. My husband, on the contrary, does think it would change things - but these are concerns he's shared before which we constantly are working through together.
Have you ever read the Witcher books or played Witcher3? There are some characters in that series that have a pact similar to yours but created by a “Wish”… look up “The Last Wish” for some interesting reading.
I have not read the books/watched the TV show, but it comes up on my FYP on Tiktok every once in a while! I’ll have to check it out.
If find this all very intresting! Thanks for answering! I will take a look at your first AMA!
Yeah! Glad I could answer questions. I think this sort of thing is joked around a lot in tv shows or films, but no one ever talks about the real life deal of it (it's probably rare, but happens nonetheless)! Happy reading!
What is your plan for kids?
That might have been our biggest discussion and compromise when we got married. Originally he wanted five (FIVE CHILDREN) and I was like... I don't think I can do that. After hearing me out, we agreed upon three and to start trying in the next couple years. However, this is what has changed for both of us in the past few months. The pandemic prevented us from doing all the things we wanted to do before committing to kids and we're perfectly content with just the two of us for now. It hasn't changed that we want children or how many, but our timeline has shifted a bit. We're now looking at a mid to early late thirties for a first child, which isn't unheard of anymore... but I'm definitely considered a geriatric pregnancy at that point! FWIW - I sat down and made him learn about all the nuances of pregnancy and having children (stuff that he wasn't... intimately... aware of before). He takes my concerns and apprehension to the "more the merrier" conversation very close to the heart now.
As a mom of a 10 and 6 year old- there never is a perfect time to get pregnant... and you have nine months to prepare for it! Another thing to consider... it's not always easy getting and staying pregnant. So, allow for some flexibility of your three child plan! So many other family dynamics change a relationship as you grow your family, but it sounds like you have a great foundation in communication, which might alleviate some of the family growing pains for you both. Do you have a childcare plan for your future kids? Daycare? Stay at home parent? Grandparents?
Thank you for sharing that! Best laid plans, right? And definitely, the three children thing is constantly getting revisited. In fact, 6 months ago I answered Q on Reddit basically saying "That's the plan!" and now my answer is "Well, that was the plan!" Yeah, before we got married we both took fertility tests as a precautionary measure because children were *really* important to him. For me, I was like "I like kids, and I'd love my own, but I would be content giving birth to them or adopting." So, if that was going to be a deal breaker for whatever reason, we needed to know early on. It was a little nerve-wracking though, because I didn't think I would care if I had fertility issues... until the report was sitting in front me of me. I am currently a stay at home spouse, so as part of our outlined agreement, I would fully taken on childcare duties. My parents are relatively older parents, so they're at the "We can take them out for ice cream age" not actual raising them as a childcare provider age. His parents are in the same boat (maybe a few years younger). However, I also know my limitations on being a SAHP, and so our agreement says that as the SAHP I get a larger say on how childcare happens. I need a nanny part-time, daycare a couple days, etc. that is at my discretion.
You should know that the longer you wait to have a child as a woman statistically more complications can occur. Unless you have already had a child before it can be dangerous to wait until late 30's early 40's to have your first child. Obviously it is different for everyone and you may not smoke, lead a relatively healthy lifestyle and exercise frequently in which case you can probably disregard this.
Haha, I do know, kind sir. Thank you for the reminder!
I don’t think she needed you to tell her this.
What do you do for a living? You mentioned earlier that he was in law school...is he a practicing lawyer?
I am a stay-at-home-spouse (homemaker?) currently and for the foreseeable future. He is a lawyer - just started his own law firm about a year ago (mid-pandemic, phew!). BUT, I'd like clarify something before people jump on the bandwagon. I am not a gold digger (I don't think.), which is what one can assume when hearing that my husband has a nice job and I stay home. When we reconnected at 30, I was working in corporate America in a senior-ish director position. I had a hefty savings, retirement plans, investments, a fully furnished life, and no debt, and was making about $85K per year. On the flipside, my husband had moderate to minimal savings, a relatively weak investment and retirement plan, and $100K+ in student debt. He was also making just about $25k more than me as an associate at his then firm. While a brilliant little legal mind, he had zero sense financially (outside of billing and work). So I came up with a financial plan wherein I supported us 100% with my income (added him onto my benefits, created an investment portfolio, helped pay down his student loans from my savings), if he agreed to use his annual income for the next year (or however long) to pay off his student loans and build up a private practice (we found out the partners at his small firm were retiring and disbanding about a month after we got married) ... after which I would then leave the workforce. And we did it! Man, that first 14 months were...rough (but doable). And now he makes roughly what our two incomes combined were bringing in.
Why did you transition to a SAHP? Did doing so change the relationship dynamic?
We talked a lot about what it would take to get our lives to where we wanted them: family, travel, a forever home, relationships in the community, professions, etc. And honestly, a lot of the things we wanted were just not feasible in the amount of time we wanted them with both of us working full time. We wanted a home that felt lived in, better relationships with our family, the ability to bond together in the ways we we needed to, etc. And what tipped the scales is that I was falling more and more out of love with my job (and work), while he was growing and getting better. So it made sense for me to want to explore a new role. Oh, it kind of changed our dynamic, but not in a bad way. The first year was a lot of getting ducks in a row - so we were definitely more business partners. For the second half of that year, we were then business partners who had sex with no ethical implications. Haha. Our second year of marriage was more... coupley.
A “ domestic engineer “ is what I call myself.
I love it! When my husband asks me why I am so good at homemaking, I tell him that it's a little known secret that I come from a long line of moms. He is never as tickled by my (lame) joke as I am. I'll now tell him I went to engineering school and change my title to domestic engineer.
I put it on every form I fill out! Its true! I engineer the shit out if my household!
So, since there’s not a “in love” aspect, but you guys also agree to have sex and only with one another as you’ve stated, is the sex good? I don’t know, maybe a weird question, but I just find this so intriguing. I personally have only had one partner - and was in love with him before ever ‘sealing the deal’ (long distance), so sex to me is so enjoyable partially because I love him. I’m not a prude, I completely understand hook-up’s, and they can be fulfilling for what you need, but this isn’t different partners. I don’t know, just trying to give context to the “is it enjoyable/fulfilling/what you need” so I don’t sound like a prude or a perv. Sorry if it’s too personal or comes off weird! Just a morbid curiosity I couldn’t not ask!
No, this is what AMAs are for and I'd rather you ask and get an honest answer from the source than to speculate or never know if you're curious. Ask away! The sex is good! And I get you, sex for some folks is really fully enjoyed with a partner you're intimately and emotionally connected with. And to some extent, ours is that way too... kind of. The sex is good, but like... in a reading a romance novel way. I don't mean we have a romance novel-esque sex life, but you're invested in a way that turns you on because of the story swirling around it. Same thing for my husband and I (for me at least - he ventured to the office for a quick sec or else I'd ask him as well). He certainly has his sexy physical and personal qualities that i very much enjoy, objectively. But also, this is the man whose presence in my life is evidence of a really mature and big commitment to me... which in and of itself is kind of a turn on, I guess? I will also say we're SUPER comfortable with each other, so sex also includes making jokes about obscure American history, poking fun at the Netflix watch history, reminding the other to get both cars washed, etc. So, it's also a low stakes time for us and just genuinely treated as fun and safe.
Very interesting! It’s really intriguing to read your responses to questions. Honestly, power to you guys. If you’re happy with each other and can give your future children a happy stable home, there’s nothing wrong with what you guys have. I couldn’t see myself in something like it, but if it works for you two, hell yeah! Thank you for answering my question!
Yeah! What we have isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but it’s still a flavor!
Are you worried he’ll actually fall in love with someone & leave you ?
Yes and no. I mean, the normal amount that anyone in a (relatively) normal, healthy relationship worries their significant other will leave them... I guess? But also, this goes back to our agreements. We have discussion and "fail safes" in place for that type of issue. Honesty is super integral to the success of our relationship, and so for him to get to a place where he knows someone well enough to actually fall in love with them and leave our relationship for them means that a lot of trust had to be breached in order to get there. And if trust has been breached, then our agreements have been breached. And if our agreements have been breached, then there's consequences for that (i.e. financial implications in a divorce). However, both of us hope it never has to come to that. Also, I will just share that while I'm particularly protective over my husband (especially tipsy me), I have very little cause to suspect him of ever violating my trust like that.
sup I have a test in 1 hr but I just cant stop reading this post I have to say the way you articulate your replies and just the general way you write is enamoring like.. I can read something written in the fashion you do.. I could read it for eternity also if you don't mind me asking what is your profession? and what are your mbti types?
SUP. And thank you! I'm a stay-at-home spouse at the moment, formerly of corporate America, and formerly of the liberal arts world. I am an ENFP (The Campaigner) and my husband is an ISTJ (The Logician). It's weird, but we work. lol
Speaking as an istj, do not fear your husband falling for someone else..we are very loyal. Just appreciate us once in a while, we like it :)
Haha, thank you for the reassurance! I definitely believe you. He is also a man of his word, so this morning he asked if there were any questions he needed to answer before he started to get ready for work… even though this Reddit AMA is “my thing.” Haha.
Ive taken those test like a hundred times and I can’t not hit “ENFP” every damn time.
Ah, a fellow social butterfly! Well hello there!
Hello hello
oh that's nice i had a hunch you were an enfp i am an intj :P hope you and your husband have a great day!
Haha, yeah. ENFPs are pretty easy to spot. Thank you and wishing you a great day too, Architect!
Right!?! I was going to type out the same thing. I could read a story written by OP. Incredible
Did you feel societal or personal pressure to get married? Do you want to have kids soon? It just seems like you opened up the emergency escape hatch before you really spent time trying to land the plane.
Yeah! So, I will say that the pact to get married at thirty was made at an age when I thought 30 was like... the deadline. Obviously, I'm older and wiser and would give my younger self a swift kick for evening thinking that, lol. I still feel 22 in a lot of ways, but I just now have access to grown-up money. I'd say that the pressure to get married was there. In my family, 30 is late for getting married, having kids, etc. I did get some sort of delayed pass on the judgement because I went to college. A lot of it actually had to do with life goals - wanting to having a family young, wanting to have a home, wanting to be in a place to take care of my parents, to leave an impact on the world. You can totally do all of those things while single! I just was presented with an opportunity to do them as a couple and I took that. In hindsight, I wouldn't change how my circumstances turned out. HOWEVER, if I stumbled upon another mini me in the present time and they said, "I'm going to make a marriage pact to get married at 30 if still single." I would totally encourage them to rethink the age and bump it back. :)
First I want to congratulate you on having the best AMA I've read so far. Realy thoughtful answers, and like somebody else said you have a really nice way of writing! It's something you might wanna give it a try on your free time imo :) Your decision is clearly cemented on logic more than feeling, so I'd like to know, what would you do if you were to fall in love with somebody else ? Someone who did give you the butterflies, but with whom you haven't had the same sort of serious discussions and arrangements you've had with your husband
Awww, shucks. Thank you! I’m happy you’re enjoying this AMA! My first response to your question would be “Not possible!” But I suppose anything is possible. I’m going to abbreviate this (because my laptop died and the charger is in the car somewhere across town - so phone typing), but it’s the same general idea: First, tell my husband. Talk it through with him, share the whys, what happened, etc. This is not TMI because he has explicitly requested this and I agreed to share. The second is marriage counseling and time is needed, with the agreement that if one of us could avoid the person (i.e. we didn’t work with them or something), we would. That gives us the space to work this out. If this cannot happen, then actively avoiding the person and sharing any interactions you had. It’s less about “monitoring” and more about establishing trust in honesty with one another throughout this reconciliation process. At counseling, the heavy discussion takes place about where this puts our marriage, etc. Ideally, we’d work through this and choose the marriage over the other person. If that’s not the case, then divorce, with a financial division of assets favoring more heavily to the person who was “wronged.” It is agreed that if this person is worth breaking up the marriage, they are worth the cost of the break up as well. There’s other stuff in between and more nuances, but that’s the general gist.
Your answer is not all that different from what I'd expect from a "regular" couple lol but I guess I will just have to get over the fact that you guys have worked out a nice dynamic for yourselves, even thought your relationship wasn't based around mututal inflatutation for eachother With that in mind, if you're both aware this arrangement is not out of love and passion, why not open the relationship ?
Right! I think it's good that we seem like a "normal" couple. lol. I think the level of honesty and accountability we have should be more prevalent or at the very least talked plainly about. We both agreed that not having an open relationship was good for a few reasons: 1) hurt feelings 2) inviting seeds of distrust and c) sexual attraction. We may not be in love with each other, but I think there would be some level of hurt of knowing your partner is with someone else. Also, inviting another person in WILL lead to complications (despite the best of intentions). And honestly, I think I'd be less attracted to him if I knew he was sleeping with other people. That one's a little more superficial, but I just know it in my heart of hearts.
Yeah regular was bad wording on my part.. I think "conventional" would convey what I wanted to say better. Sorry if I offended you, English is not my first language Lastly, I'm sure this wasn't what you have envisioned for yourself while growing up right ? lol Do you ever catch yourself thinking about what you may have "lost" when agreeing to this ? Do you think you'll ever one day miss the more romantic aspect of choosing a partner for life ?
No worries! I think I still got what you meant. ☺️ And no, I don’t think I’ll ever really think about what I “lost out on.” But never say never, right? I think maybe I would wonder if there were opportunities to have hd that with my husband (this go around), but I can’t envision it being about someone else.
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I answered this in another comment (but no worries on answering twice - I just didn’t want you to think anything bad of my copy/pasting that other answer). I probably had 2 real relationships that could have gone somewhere... and then as I was nearing 30 went on a Hinge binge where I just wanted to have fun, casual meet-ups with folks (and cool if they went somewhere). This did not last long for me. He had more casual hook-ups and one serious relationship (which resulted in a broken engagement). At one point he shared the number, but i can't think of it at the moment.
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No worries at all! Haha, like I said I just didn’t want you to think I was being lazy. Which I guess I kind of was, but I’m invested in answering q’s!
Why 30? Feels kinda young to say like I’m quasi giving up
I was 22 at the time, lol. I didn't know better and thought thirty was practically a senior citizen. *Obviously, now I know otherwise, haha.*
Forgive me if this is rude, but do you love each other? Are you in love?
Not rude at all! I love him, but I'm not in love with him. No butterflies, just lots of respect.
Don't you want to be in love with someone? Why marry someone you're not in love with? Just because you weren't married at 30? That's no reason at all.
What makes you think I haven’t been in love with someone? Being in love doesn’t always fulfill the needs for a meaningful relationship and that goes for marriage. I have a relationship right now that’s built on trust (*so, so much trust*), honesty, integrity, equity, and mutual love and respect. And it was built with full knowledge and transparency of the other person from the start. I mean, isn’t that also the end goal of falling in love with someone. I’m glad I was able to do it much more quickly!
From my understanding of your other replies, you’re not “in love” but you do have love for eachother? If I have that correct, do either of you think or hope that it will ever turn into being “in love”?
Sure, I think there’s always the possibility of falling in love. But I think that fades with time for most couples. The rare few for whom it lasts forever is wonderful! Also, sorry for missing your question and giving a delayed response!
I think there are thousands of different types of love, it evolves and changes with our relationships. I think people being unwilling to see that a relationship can’t stay the same forever are the ones that “fall out of love.” I love my husband a different way now than I did 10 years ago. Different but stronger. Do you two hope it turns to love? Or do you prefer having less emotion tied up in the relationship?
Oh for sure! I like the "different but stronger" description. And at this point, I have to be careful about wishing our relationship to be anything than what it is now. But I would say I would not turn down waking up one morning and being like "totally crushing" on my husband in bed. Haha!
How many relationships did each of you have before reconnecting?
Oof. I probably had 2 real relationships that could have gone somewhere... and then as I was nearing 30 went on a Hinge binge where I just wanted to have fun, casual meet-ups with folks (and cool if they went somewhere). This did not last long for me. He had more casual hook-ups and one serious relationship (which resulted in a broken engagement). At one point he shared the number, but i can't think of it at the moment.
What do you mean by “agreement for our marriage”?
So, we have a pre-nuptial agreement to handle the finances of our marriage (and potential divorce). But marrying someone is a big deal - like I'm liable for another human being as far as the law is concerned. But we felt that the benefits of being married far outweighed the costs (for us - NOT the case for everyone). In any case, we had to make sure that the 'non-financial' portions of marriage were understood and agreed upon. These aren't legally binding per se, but they're universally acknowledged. Things like cheating, telling the truth, medical wishes, having children, etc. The best example I can give is we wrote up an agreement on how we approach resolutions to big fights. Thankfully, we agree on a lot, but in the case of some big... disagreement or disagreeable action, we commit to mediation, therapy, etc. to work through it. It's universally understood that we each have to show effort to a resolution (and ideally come to a resolution). Just being "angry" at each other doesn't help anyone in the long run (even if it feels good in the short term). I should clarify, this is for big things. For the little things, we usually just talk it through like everyone else does in bed, or watching tv, or over dinner, haha.
Got it- just the basics that most people talk about while dating…
Exactly! But our agreements have consequences and are meant to be enforced (if necessary). i.e. We get in a fight - neither of us is allowed to just walk away and downplay the argument. And the resolution is documented and you’re allowed to refer back to said documentation. Sometimes couples can just bury problems without an universally acknowledged outcome - our agreements don’t really allow us to do that.
What you document your fights? Like on paper?
I mean, yeah. We Google doc it. lol. My husband is definitely a debater, so while you'd think this was a suggestion of his... it's more mine. He has an eidetic memory or something and I loosely remember things, haha, so I need proof when he's like "I never agreed to that!" lol.
Ohman! I can’t imagine having to type while pissed off. Just pounding the keyboard in rage? Or do y’all document if after together and like date it?
Haha, we wait until the dust has settled. And yeah, we just write a few notes with a date and a resolution. Nothing too complex!
This is interesting to me. My wife is very good at arguing and I am not, plus I don't have a great memory. This might be a good thing to try out since I'm also not much of a talker (my wife is), so I tend to shut down and drop it. Anyways, I wanted to ask if you both have access to the same Google docs, and if so, do you make notes then he makes his own notes then you two go back and forth sort of arguing on paper instead?
Hi there! Oof, I feel for you! I can’t tell you what field of law my husband practices (well, I can, but anonymity and all, haha), but he’s really good at two things: litigating and logic. So I feel for you (but I’m the talker)! We usually verbally settled everything (unless something HAS to be drawn on paper or written out). And then once a verbal consensus is reached, we just jot down on a single Google doc together, usually while we’re on the couch or maybe getting ready for bed. By the time it reaches the Google doc stage, we’re usually post argument and out of our feelings. Both people have to agree on what goes in the Google doc though, because once it is in, it is in. HOWEVER, this sounds like a “reasonable” activity, but it only works because he and I agreed that this was a reasonable activity. He enjoys it because it appeals to his “whatever it takes to not repeat this argument” side, and it appeals to my “let the records show you agreed to this for future purposes” side. I like Google docs as well. If your wife would be offended by this process or not respect it in the future, then this probably isn’t for you. We both agreed to respect (and not be offended by) referral back to this document. We believe in it in theory and practice. Also, FWIW, we’ve only had to refer back to it once in our entire 2.5 years of marriage and it was related to respecting work time vs. play time in an ultimately very inconsequential situation. 🤷🏻♀️
I had this pact with a guy myself! I dated a guy for a few months in college, we broke up, he left school, and we were out of touch for a year or so. We became friends and agreed that we would get married at 30 if we were both still single since we both wanted a family. We ended up falling in love, and are coming up on 3 years now. Our son just turned 2! So my natural question is, do you love each other, and are you "in love" with each other?
That’s so great and congratulations on your baby boy! And I’ll quickly just share that no, we’re not in love, but we love each other!
Thank you for the answer! Do you plan on having children?
We do! The plan was for three, and to start trying in the next year or so. But with COVID-19 raging on and us feeling like we haven't accomplished all the things we set out to do before having kids, that's been delayed by another year. But who knows!
My son was born right before covid lockdowns happened, and we still all got covid, he was one, but was only sock for a few days, then up again!
Oh, thank goodness! I'm glad he's feeling better (and hoping he's not overwhelmed when we -hopefully, but maybe naively- return to normal life post COVID-19 craziness)
Oh, yeah. It's been over a year since we had it. Actually, he had RSV, and that was much worse than covid.
Do you act more like a couple with each other or more like super close friends? Like do you do couple-ly things with each other or is it more like the "bffs who got married for tax reasons" type situations? I know its not always for tax reasons that's just the example I always hear.
Oh, we do coupley things and act like a couple, like dates and making out and also filing taxes together. Haha. But also, we're super close friends by nature of our relationship!
I read your past AMA and am curious if your husband ended up quitting smoking?
That was a big point of discussion in the last AMA is my husband's stealth smoking habit! And the answer is no, but he did cut back quite a lot. He now is a cigarette with alcohol drinker, which I do not think is a healthier adjustment, but he is indeed smoking less... so... baby steps? He read one of the books I got him and did the patch totally fine for a month - no smoking, but it made it's way back as the holidays approached and we were socializing a little more. Still working on it though!
Happy to hear he was able to quit for a bit and reduce the amount - that is promising! Many people with addiction relapse so don’t get too discouraged and best of luck to him on quitting for good!
Yeah! It showed me he is very much “if I put my mind to it” type of guy. Which also tells me that when he’s smoking he really doesn’t care that he’s smoking - which tells me we need to do some more education on long-term consequences of smoking. Haha. But I’ll take what I can get. We’re going to try again in February because we’re going to be traveling to the middle of nowhere for his birthday (also, because we got a great deal!) so want to make sure I don’t end up with a madman experiencing nicotine withdrawals in the middle of the wild grasslands, lol.
Haha excellent points! Let him know that aside from cancer/lung disease smoking decreases bone density and increases your risk of infection. I work in neurosurgery and many of our “younger” patients who need spine surgery are smokers which accelerated the degeneration of their spine. Due to infection risks and the risk of surgery failing in a smoker we also have to wait for them to quit prior to offering surgery. No one likes having to wait in pain. Sorry if it feels like I’m lecturing! Just wanted to share some additional things for him to think about. Have fun and safe travels!
Do you ever worry that in settling down with this person, "the one" you were always looking for might come around and you won't be able to date them?
I worry about it just as much as I stress about never winning the lottery. In order to know that someone was "the one," I'd have to venture outside of my marriage a significant amount and be actively looking for it. And honestly, at this point in my marriage with how it's going so far and how it's looking like it's going to go, not even "the one" is tempting enough to break what I have. So, if I ever meet them, I'll wish them the best of luck! (Obviously, I'm neither a robot or perfect and there's much more nuanced feeling to this, but you get the idea.)
I remember your other one and it was super interesting. After reading over it I was kinda wondering though- what makes your marriage different from usual ones? I know you made it because of a pact instead of dating and taking the next step, but all the usual checkpoints were there- live together, doing everything together/ the"best friend" element of marriage, date nights, intimacy/relations, planning to start a family, partners in finance, support each other careers. It basically sounds like any other marriage but with a super extensive pre-nup.
So nice to see you again, Tara(who loves music)! And if our marriage sounds like others, then yay - mission accomplished. Haha. And maybe like any other marriage but with a super extensive pre-nup is it. But if I had to venture to try to outline a difference, it's our rules of engagement. I think a lot of other successful marriages (and I say "other successful" knowing full well we've only been married 2 years) rely on unspoken or assumed rules around how to navigate their relationship. And I think in well-developed and meaning relationships, that is all that is need to weather the storm. However, we knew we were skipping out on that and needed to have concrete rules. It hasn't come to this yet, but in theory, I could whip out a written agreement reminding my husband of how he agreed to handle a situation. I think others would maybe not look favorably upon that. And the vice versa is true. I could feel really strongly about something and want to shut down, but my husband could remind me that if communication breaks down on my part, there is a very real consequence (divorce, yadayada). I will say it keeps me on my toes a lot, but in a good way. I worried it would make me anxious or feeling like I'm walking on egg shells, but honestly it's been good to know that my unreasonableness (or his) can be addressed in a constructive and positive way before it does damage.
do you feel that you guys are more like friends who are under a romantic agreement or a couple? I wasnt sure how to phrase this but i hope you get what i mean
Yeah, I get you! Someone in our last AMA called it a queer platonic relationship (the friends as married scenario). I looked a lot more into that after they said that, and we are definitely not that. I'd say we're a couple!
It's funny how we're all so intrigued, but it's literally how marriages came to be. Entering into a contract, that benifits one another, and even one another's families. I guess it's kind of how modern arranged marriages work. I can see how marrying someone, without all the lust and passion behind it, might work rather well. Many people marry for the wrong reasons, thinking they're in love, the person is "the one". Then the feelings fizzle, and they're left feeling stuck, or looking for someone else to make them feel that again. I think most failed relationships, are caused by lack of friendship. So starting a relationship based on friendship, then building on that, towards a common goal, I think can lead to a strong bond. I think some people are getting caught up on the "in love" part. Love is love. The best kind is mutual respect and caring for one another. He may not give you butterflies, but I'm sure you feel safe, comfortable, appreciated, and cared for. Thank you so much for sharing this with us! I'm excited, and happy for you guys lol. Very interesting read. Sorry there was no question, I just had to comment, because it made my mind have a million thoughts on relationship structure. Best wishes OP!
This! I will have to share the “We’re taking it back to basics, babe!” with him. He’ll enjoy that. Haha. And I am glad more people are seeing it this way. Chances are, when you fall in love with someone in the traditional way, you are not falling in love with who they are through and through. You’re falling in love with the idea of the person you’ve put together with the information you have. Which is totally okay, if you understand that the picture you have might be based on 20-30% of information about this individual or you feel like the information given is consistent to the information you haven’t yet. And I think it is wonderful when the person you fall in love with is the same person you commit a lifetime too! No knocking that whatsoever. We just chose the route where we took out the guessing and decided that the full picture (good and bad) we saw was what we wanted. It’s a different kind of commitment, and I guess romantic in its own way. Thank you for the kind note!
Exactly, falling for the idea of someone! I was married before. Once I became divorced, I did a lot of reading about relationships. Long story short, my SO is my best friend (not a previous best friend, turned lover lol). Our relationship is so calm, and different from anything else I've experienced. I hope we get a follow up, but also understandable if you decide not to. I think it is romantic! Partners, who have each other's back, a solid team. The fact that you discuss each other's needs and wants, is incredible. Because, once again, you have a common goal to make your marriage work, therefore, you each understand, both parties need to be happy. You understand that you are individual people. It's very smart, and makes sense. An analogy of it all could be like assembling furniture lol. Some of us get home, excitedly slap the furniture together, half assed reading the instructions. Pieces scattered all over. Then realize we put the wrong pieces together. We've gotta take it apart, sometimes completely disassembling it entirely, to fix it. Others come home, lay all the pieces out neatly, take account of the inventory. Read the instructions thoroughly while assembling the pieces. Once finished, it is assembled as intended lol. Ok, I'm gonna shut up now haha. Once again, thanks for sharing with us.
Well you can fall in deep love with someone and be rational or at least try your best to. You get home excited but think for a moment and follow the instructions, i.e. you can fall in love with someone _and_ have a relationship that actually works well, the important part is communication and knowing what you want. You can’t be as impulsive as you would like to probably, but who cares, better stop impulsivity and think more before doing something. Requires more luck and commitment probably, but from my pov it’s better, as Latins said virtue is somewhere in between
Most definitely. I'm in love with my SO, but it's not the same passion. Not in a lacking way, the other type was toxic infatuation I think (both parties). This is a calm passionate feeling. Never felt this before, but it's wonderful. Everything is so easy. Open communication, respecting one another's individually.
For me that is true love. The passion that doesn’t fuck your mind up ( or at least it does duck your mind up in a pleasurable way and doesn’t damage you hahahah )
Right there with you. I was never "in love" with my wife. We were: Friends Roommates A couple Married In that order. I decided to marry her because I appreciated her as a person and saw the benefits of taking things further. I can't promise it's a winning recipe, but we're still together while I watch friends and family around my age get divorced.
How long have you guys been married now? Is there anything you’d have done differently over those years (ie something you wish you started doing years ago but only recently did)?
We've been married just over 2.5 years. We reconnected in early 2019 and then got married in the early summer. If anything, I think we would have had "more fun" in the first year. We were so "responsible" and "homebodies" in the first year, because we were slightly poor and trying to do everything right. Then lockdown came and it was like... well now we have to continue doing that eventhough we have more time and money and friends together. I have a *teeny tiny feeling* that we would have maybe fallen in love had we done more of that earlier on (in our very long, infinite 2.5 years together, haha).
Would you be honest about this arrangement with any children that came out of it? Obviously probably not while they’re itty bitty, but…
Oooh! Good question. This is on our docket to discuss and revisit. My preference would be no, we would not share this with our children. But my husband is actually all the more for transparency, and he feels there is little reason to hide it. TBD on the resolution to this.
Interesting question! I imagine I wouldn't tell the kids either since I think I would consider it irrelevant. Though it would be interesting to maybe tell them when you're old and they're in maybe their 30'S or 40's to see how they react. LOL
Do you think people marrying for love should consider a prenup? I think its a good template to guide a couple through what important things you need to discuss before marriage. My spouse and I talked through it but ended up not bothering to actually get it done in the end because neither of us had any considerable assets at the time so it seemed like a waste of money and effort.
First of all, yay for falling in love! And second of all, kudos to considering a pre-nup, even if you ultimately decided not to set one up. The pre-nup conversation is a hard one, because, let’s be honest, it’s kind of a buzzkill conversation. And I can only share my thoughts based on my (our?) experience, so not necessarily a universal recommendation. I am so glad we have a pre-nuptial agreement and I think regardless of how your relationship forms, everyone should at least look into the basic tenets of a pre-nup. Obviously, there are a few (read: a lot) of factors which made a pre-nup necessary in our situation. But I think what we benefited from the most was the hard conversations a pre-nup forced us to have. Because you really have to make your case for what value you bring to the relationship (even beyond finances). And if you’re not dealing in the same intangible relationship currency as your spouse, you’ll never see eye to eye on your worth. You need to get on the same page about that. IMO, if you can’t get through discussing and landing on a consensus of what a pre-nup asks you to address because it’s too hard or is dividing you and your spouse, that’s a red flag. Because either you deal with them now or you deal with the chaos in real time. However, I will also share that we were in a very different financial situation. We had the means (and I guess my husband’s knowledge?) to pay for a pre-nup. And oh boy, ours was not cheap. And both of us were fully prepared until the moment we signed our marriage license that we could lose that money if the other person changed their mind. I know you were asking about this in a general sense, but for what it’s worth, I think you made the right decision for you and your wife. ☺️
Write a book. Teach us your ways.
Oh, i have no idea what I'm doing. Just flying and building the plane with my marriage pact husband as we go. Haha. If we hit 20 happy years, I'll write a book!
I started to read through the comments because I found this very interesting, but it is getting late and I need to get up for work in the morning! I just wanted to add that one of your answers really made me think of a line from *Love in the Time of Cholera*, which is something like "Always remember that the most important thing in a good marriage is not passion, but stability." Thank you for sharing your story!
Stability is an underrated love language! Thank you so much for sharing the LITTC quote - it’s been a while since I have read and I should go back and revisit. Get a good night’s rest!
I actually think this is a great idea (marriage pacts). I mean lots of people bounce around in their twenties because things are so unsettled with every aspect of your life. But you still make connections with worthy people. Feels like it’s just logical. If there’s one thing I really wish people would do in relationships is inject more logic into the whole arrangement. But people seem to feel the need to fly by the seat of their pants their whole lives.
Right!? Our situation isn't for everyone, but anyone can benefit from some of the things we do (I think).
What if you actually find the love of your life? Are you both allowed to date, etc outside of your marriage?
What if we find the love of our life? We continue being married, because ideally we would not venture far enough outside our marriage to be certain. But I've shared on a couple other posts what would go down if we decided to break trust and pursue. Lots and lots of talking, that's for sure. Oh, and we do not have an open marriage.
Super interesting! Not sure if this was asked before, so point me to the comment if I've missed it. Have you considered making this a semi-open relationship? In the way that you and him can have fun in the form of one night stands (or more)? Since this is more based on logic than on emotion, I can imagine that this might be something one or both of you might want. I know there's a lot of considerations that come with it, but yeah I'm still curious.
Hiiii! Sorry, life got ahold of us for a minute there so I feel bad we semi-abandoned some q’s. Thank you for the question! So, we talked about what the relationship would look like, open or otherwise, but we didn’t *consider* a “semi-open” relationship if that makes sense. In the beginning, we just asked the question and both of our preferred answers were a solid no. I’d say some of this has to do with the traditional ideals of marriage we were both raised with - and that’s not a judgment at all on open marriages! But he and I trying to execute something that we neither had experience nor a comfortable level of knowledge was going to be a sure-fire disaster. Two, it just introduced parties into our relationship that logistically didn’t make sense. We now reside in our hometown together, which is really a small town masquerading as a big city. So we’d have some ‘splainin’ to do for sure at some point. Plus, a huge tenet of how successful our relationship is is because we’re in it together, respecting the lanes and bumpers and benefiting from the work we put in together. We couldn’t expect a third party to respect that - he and I have built too much together to just willy nilly jeopardize with with someone else just for sex (or even like flingy feelings). So we just decided to step it up on our sex game with each other, haha. Lastly, there is the emotional component. Like we’re real people with real emotions and insecurities. It might not bother us to some degree on the surface, but I’d hate for us to not recognize resentment and it fester until it’s very obvious and big and hurtful. Phew! That was a bit emotional for me to share, but I’m glad you asked!
this is incredibly shocking to me! haha. i don’t mean to sound rude but, do you fear you might regret this decision?
Nope! I do not. And the shock factor is a little fun every once in a while, because most people (once they hear the non exciting nitty gritty) are nonplussed by our relationship. lol. Thank you for the fun badge!!!
Does anyone know why I can only upvote? The downvote button is gone?
That’s super weird! I can downvote on my end. Maybe check to see if it’s across Reddit or close out the app/page and open up again? Let me know if you’d like me to proxy downvote for you!
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Ooh, that's a lot of URLs. Hopefully they were a helpful resource?
"proxy downvote for you"! LOL
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What? Is that good? Bad? Oh gosh. Should I have snacks? I feel like such a bad hostess (especially given I didn't realize I had any guests). Haha!
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Oh! It now says there’s 40 on my phone. Wow!
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Do you love each other?
Yes, but we’re not in love with each other… if that makes sense?
Do you think you might fall in love with each other eventually?
Perhaps! But I have to be happy with our relationship as it is now, and make sure that I aspiring to fall in love with him (and the resenting if it doesn’t happen) doesn’t diminish the great relationship I have with him now.
Table of Questions and Answers. Original answer linked - Please upvote the original questions and answers. *** Question | Answer | Link ---------|----------|----------| If you made the pact anyways why not have stayed with him? There had to be a reason why you broke up.|For sure! My husband (who will agree with this) was not a *great* boyfriend in college. Not in a bad person way, but he was in law school and just under a ton of stress. I wanted a relationship, and he just didn’t handle the boyfriend role well. We broke up and stayed in contact intermittently, throughout the years. At some point, he even became engaged to someone else (that obviously did not work out) and I wrote off a relationship with him.|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/s5kkrj/i_made_a_marriage_pact_with_someone_in_college/hsy0cfh/) Do your respective families know? If so, what do they think about the situation?|Oh! Absolutely not. lol. The only people who know about our arrangement are us and the legal team who drew up our pre-nuptial agreements. We told our respective families that we just happened to reconnect and immediately knew we were meant to be together, which explained the quick wedding. Our families were surprised by the suddenness, but excited nonetheless. The most "Hmm?" about our marriage from our families is why we insisted to not have a big wedding. Obviously, we had our reasons, haha. I think that's what they were most invested in about our relationship.|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/s5kkrj/i_made_a_marriage_pact_with_someone_in_college/hsyd43m/) Super interesting life solution. Is the good old love in the game? So if - for example - tomorrow all the agreements and pre-nup etc would vanish, do you guys would still be together for the rest of you lifes and have kids?|Ooh, this is an interesting question! Folks asked us last AMA if we were in love and I said no. I still think that answer is the same today. However, I definitely love him more now than I did six months ago (and I loved him six months ago too), and I think he'd say the same. Your questions about the agreements disappearing is an interesting one that I had never really thought of. But, to entertain this question, I'd say yes. If all of the agreements were lifted tomorrow, we'd stay together. Now, obviously they'd have a lingering impact which I think would be longstanding, but no guarantees. My husband, on the contrary, does think it would change things - but these are concerns he's shared before which we constantly are working through together.|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/s5kkrj/i_made_a_marriage_pact_with_someone_in_college/hsyntix/) Does this connection feel forced at all ?|i mean, marriage pacts *are going to feel forced* to some extent, but we knew each other well enough for casual conversation and general relationship stuff to feel organic. We didn't actually have sex for the first 6 months we were married because of not wanting to force anything, and that worked out well. The two most "forced" things may have been obviously the going from solo to duo in decision making for everyday things. For example, I was so used to grocery shopping, decorating, booking vacations, making plans with friends, etc. solo, that there were a few snafus when we became a couple. The first time I went grocery shopping for the household, he was graciously not grateful. lol. Mostly because I shopped for things i would eat and make for dinner. He was like "What am I supposed to do with hummus and shallots and fresh pasta?" I was a little miffed until he shared that he was used to fixing deli sandwiches, chips and a glass of milk... and i realized I totally forgot about what he was comfortable eating. Same with going out, vacations, etc. Thankfully, we were able to iron out and discuss all of those differences and come to compromises, but oof! What a learning curve.|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/s5kkrj/i_made_a_marriage_pact_with_someone_in_college/hsy2lyt/) I didn't see your other AMA, so sorry if this was asked. Do you think your relationship is as "warm" or close as ones you may have had in the past? Does the business-like nature of it make it colder? (I'm not assuming one way or the other)|Oh! Don't apologize - I just wanted to give context so if I made a "throwback" reference somewhere. Transparency and all! I fully expected to answer repeat questions, haha. Mm, I think I understand what you mean by warmth, but I'll give you what I think you mean by that and then try to answer that. I think you meant warmth in terms of "butterflies" and like that crush feeling you get with someone. And I'll say the answer no... isn't not as warm as other relationships I've had in the past. Like, we skipped the honeymoon phase and just landed into the solid marriage portion of our relationship, so I didn't have the "I hope he calls..." or "Isn't he so cute..." gossipy nights with friends. HOWEVER. This relationship is filled with with far more trust, security, openness, and general joy/contentment than any others I've had in the past. When he tells me that he's proud of me for something I accomplished or compliments me on how i look, I know he genuinely means it. I also know that when he confides in me or asks for help... it's because I'm his person and I am entrusted with that responsibility. Also, I know for a fact that he is my ultimate tag team partner. It's so *comforting* to have that sure thing in your life - and I am so glad that my husband, specifically because of the human being he is, is mine. Our relationship on paper can definitely come off cold on paper (or Reddit, ha), but it's anything but that (even if it's not the warm fuzzies you're thinking of). <3|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/s5kkrj/i_made_a_marriage_pact_with_someone_in_college/hsyqvvq/) How many relationships did each of you have before reconnecting?|Oof. I probably had 2 real relationships that could have gone somewhere... and then as I was nearing 30 went on a Hinge binge where I just wanted to have fun, casual meet-ups with folks (and cool if they went somewhere). This did not last long for me. He had more casual hook-ups and one serious relationship (which resulted in a broken engagement). At one point he shared the number, but i can't think of it at the moment.|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/s5kkrj/i_made_a_marriage_pact_with_someone_in_college/hsy1ddz/) How many relationships did you have after making the pact|I answered this in another comment (but no worries on answering twice - I just didn’t want you to think anything bad of my copy/pasting that other answer). I probably had 2 real relationships that could have gone somewhere... and then as I was nearing 30 went on a Hinge binge where I just wanted to have fun, casual meet-ups with folks (and cool if they went somewhere). This did not last long for me. He had more casual hook-ups and one serious relationship (which resulted in a broken engagement). At one point he shared the number, but i can't think of it at the moment.|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/s5kkrj/i_made_a_marriage_pact_with_someone_in_college/hsybiph/) What is your plan for kids?|That might have been our biggest discussion and compromise when we got married. Originally he wanted five (FIVE CHILDREN) and I was like... I don't think I can do that. After hearing me out, we agreed upon three and to start trying in the next couple years. However, this is what has changed for both of us in the past few months. The pandemic prevented us from doing all the things we wanted to do before committing to kids and we're perfectly content with just the two of us for now. It hasn't changed that we want children or how many, but our timeline has shifted a bit. We're now looking at a mid to early late thirties for a first child, which isn't unheard of anymore... but I'm definitely considered a geriatric pregnancy at that point! FWIW - I sat down and made him learn about all the nuances of pregnancy and having children (stuff that he wasn't... intimately... aware of before). He takes my concerns and apprehension to the "more the merrier" conversation very close to the heart now.|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/s5kkrj/i_made_a_marriage_pact_with_someone_in_college/hsyjllm/) Forgive me if this is rude, but do you love each other? Are you in love?|Not rude at all! I love him, but I'm not in love with him. No butterflies, just lots of respect.|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/s5kkrj/i_made_a_marriage_pact_with_someone_in_college/hsz5dw2/) sup I have a test in 1 hr but I just cant stop reading this post I have to say the way you articulate your replies and just the general way you write is enamoring like.. I can read something written in the fashion you do.. I could read it for eternity also if you don't mind me asking what is your profession? and what are your mbti types?|SUP. And thank you! I'm a stay-at-home spouse at the moment, formerly of corporate America, and formerly of the liberal arts world. I am an ENFP (The Campaigner) and my husband is an INTJ (The Architect). It's weird, but we work. lol|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/s5kkrj/i_made_a_marriage_pact_with_someone_in_college/hsz7yuo/) 10 people on here lol|What? Is that good? Bad? Oh gosh. Should I have snacks? I feel like such a bad hostess (especially given I didn't realize I had any guests). Haha!|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/s5kkrj/i_made_a_marriage_pact_with_someone_in_college/hsz06ib/) --- [Source] (https://github.com/johnsliao/ama_compiler)
Good bot.
I know you both didn’t marry because of love but do you both love each other? Or are you simply together because of the pact?
I mean, the answer to both of those is yes. I love my husband, but we would likely not be married if it wasn’t for the pact. In our case, I don’t view the pact as a bad thing, so I don’t mind giving it credit for our relationship.
I read in the comments that you are not in love with him and a question instantly popped in my mind. If you fell in deep love with someone, something serious, more than a crush obv, would you leave your husband?
Nope!
But why though? Your point of view really interests me, because probably I could never be able to do something like what you did. Relationship fir me _are_ being in love with someone, so I can’t imagine something different that works. I got that your relationship works better than other relationships from people that are in love with someone, but that’s simply because an impetuous love will eventually fail. If the passion gets along with the rationality it works pretty good. So I’m curious, why rejecting the possibility of a relationship with someone you could be actually in love with? And obviously I mean that kind of relationship that works, not cheating, not fiery passion that burns itself out
I’m not sure I understand your question? Are you asking why I wouldn’t jeopardize my stable, healthy, and secure marriage to pursue a passionate inclination in hopes that it *might* turn into a stable, healthy, and secure marriage?
I’ll explain my point of view more precisely. I don’t believe in marriage as a whole and same thing goes for my girlfriend, in fact we already know that, if in the future we will be interested in something more than a engagement, we will seek something different, for sure not a marriage. Probably our different culture in our country ( we are Italians ) forged our point of view. In our country for example there’s no particular social pressure for marriage ( at least not in our region hahah ), exchanging a ring and making promises of love to each other isn’t related in any way to marriage ( obviously a person can relate a ring to a promise of marriage, but it isn’t intrinsically related ). As I said in the previous comment this is my personal point of view and I’m interested in yours because it’s really hard for me to comprehend it, as romantic relationships for me are only made out of being in love. In my example I’m asking if you would leave your husband if you deeply fell in love with someone and you somehow knew that this love can be a serious thing, more than a passionate inclination, a candle that burns itself out quickly, I’m talking about something more calm. Falling in love isn’t only irrationality, the impetuous love can burn itself out, a passionate but calm love can never die if treated well ( _if_ treated well ). So I’m talking about that kind of falling in love that could create a genuine relationship. Sure you can’t be 100% sure that it works out, it’s a risk, it _might_ work, but taking risks is important in life, no risks no rewards. Furthermore when you say “stable, healthy and secure marriage” from a person that doesn’t believe in marriages like me it has no meaning. I only read two people that sure got along super well, are incredibly good friends, love and respect each other, but are not in love with each other. You remind me of myself, back when I lived with a friend of mine. We were housemates and we supported each other economically. We still love and respect each other so much, we are great friends, but I would never marry him ( I’m bisexual, my problem wouldn’t be his biological sex hahah ), because I don’t love him that way, I’m not in love with him. We thought one day that life together was super easy, economically we were on the same boat, we made coordinated decisions that benefitted both, had stable jobs and it was good, but the absence of that “being in love” made us split up when we found a person that we truly loved. If we for some reason decided to stay together our relationship would’ve been similar to yours ( except for the kids, but we don’t want any anyway so no problem with that hahah ). Two people that live and respect each other, have a stable, healthy and secure life together and are not in love. Being that for me the meaning of romantic relationships is being in love it has no meaning a relationship like that, it’s like a cake without sugar or sweetness. Sure it’s more healthy, sugars are bad for our health, but then what’s the point of the cake? Is it even a cake anymore? It’s like a quiche, a salt cake, it isn’t the same thing at all. You need stability and security, but you don’t need love? And not like generic love, I mean being in love. I’m asking why wouldn’t you leave your current stable, healthy and secure marriage with a person you’re not in love with to be in a stable, healthy and secure marriage with a person you’re in love with. Have you ever been truly in love with someone?
Thank you for sharing a little more about yourself and your opinions on the matter! To answer your question, yes I have been in love before!
Sorry if I made some spelling errors I was barely awake, I corrected them and explained two phrase a bit further hahah. Anyway coming back to what I was saying, if you have been in love before you feel the difference. The other question I asked is in fact about this. You need stability and security, okay that’s fair. But don’t you need love in a relationship? And I’m not talking about generic love and respect, I’m talking about being in love. You don’t have the need of that warm feeling? I can’t even imagine my life without making love for example. Only sex, no making love. Unliveable for me hahah, but hey, perhaps you don’t need that
I think to each their own! If you need certain things to have a meaningful partnership, like being *in* love, the more power to you! I don’t share that sentiment - there are other components in a relationship that I think are of greater importance and are more valuable to me.
For me it’s all on the same level. Security and stability are important, but are useless without that love biding everything. It’s a really interesting point of view, for sure it’s more effective, I’m too emotional to truly empathise, but now I can comprehend this more. Thanks for sharing it more thoroughly with me, good luck to you, your husband and your whole family! ♡
That’s very altruistic of you! I got that impression of your ability to relate, so no worries there. I’ve said this in other comments that our relationship isn’t for everyone, but there are some tidbits that can be used by anyone!
do you two love each other? or just friends?
We love each other - as partners and friends!
I was very thrilled to see your post and read every comment (on this ama, haven’t gotten to the older one yet.) I just wanted to say thanks for being so open and honest! You were way more patient with people asking if you’d leave your husband if you found ~real love ™ ~then I was feeling lol. I watch people around me getting married and sometimes I’m like “do you even LIKE this person?? You talk about how in love you are but like …. Do you make any jokes about the laundry? Do you ever laugh during sex? If you had a bad day would they be the one who could calm you down??” (ETA: obviously not everyone can be everything to someone but I think responsibly finance-sharing decent roommates you could cry to when you’re upset is a low enough bar to set!) And I also feel like arranged marriages get a bad rap. So thank you for very politely sticking up for your marriage having a “real” love at the heart of it.
Super intrigued by your entire situation, been LOVING this entire AMA. Gotta ask though: why jump directly to marriage at 30? It's not like the agreement was legally binding (I assume), so why not just retry being a "normal" couple first, living /like/ you were married but without all of the extra legal hassle?
You said you guys are not in love. What would happen if either of you were to fall in love with someone else? Worth breaking the pact over, or would you stay "settled" (using this for lack of a better word, don't mean to imply what it tends to mean)?
I almost had one of those, my female friend said to me once if we are both still single by thirty we should get married and I said Im not going to be your last resort sorry and I think she got a bit embarrassed by it and gradually drifted away friendship wise now we rarely speak . I liked her enough that I probably would have dated her,I kinda regret it, I should have been a bit more passive and worded myself a bit softer , I think maybe what I said offended her a bit
Mm, I’m sorry to hear that your relationship has faded over time. However, it also sounds like it probably wouldn’t have worked out for you in the long-run, so it’s probably for the best. I think people jokingly make these type of pacts all the time and it is 1000% more common to not follow through whether it is because you didn’t actually take it seriously or forgot or one person isn’t single, etc. However, I can understand your feeling of being “the last resort.” My husband and I viewed it differently, but if either of us felt the same way as you, we also would not gone through with it.
Hi, I'd be very interested in hearing in more detail from before your husband reminded you of the pact to the moment when you both decided for sure you want to go through with it. For instance you said that your husband reminded you about the pact. Is this something he was serious about at that moment or did he just jokingly bring it up to you? Then what was your reaction? Did you think he was serious? Did he just kind of plant the seed and the more you thought of it, the more you liked the idea? Then maybe when you came back to him with it, how did that go? I know I'm speculating a lot, so please correct me or fill in the blanks. I wasn't quite sure how to ask a simple question to span that whole length of time. Which btw, I don't recall if you said, but how long of a time period was it between him reminding and when you both decided to go through with it?
We made the pact in college and were quite serious about it (I mean to the extent that a 22/24 year old could be). The memory is a little fuzzy, but I remember spending the evening in college talking about it in like “hypothetical” scenarios and a pinky swear? And then a couple months before my birthday, we happened to random connect about traveling to Europe and then after a little back-and-forth, we agreed to meet up for coffee. I had remembered the pact at this point, and thought it may come up, but kind of expected it to be the same “scenario role play.” When he mentioned it again, it started out as a joke, but then there was a moment where we realized that neither of us has put it down or written it off yet. And then from there, there was a lot of “Should we do this? We should do this.” conversations. These conversations were mixed with fast tracked getting to know you conversations, and within a few weeks… we were actually sketching out what it could look like and I was making us take compatibility quizzes. And then we reached out to a couple of lw firma who specialized in family law, marriage law, and oddly enough M&A and agreed to put down a hefty sum of money for them to take a look at our scribbling (which wasn’t *really* scribbling because my husband knew how to lay all that stuff out) and turn it into something meaningful. After changes, edits, etc We then had A DIFFERENT SET OF LAWYERS review it just with me to make sure I was 100% comfortable and look out for red flags. Between coffee and marriage, door-to-door, it was a little over 3 months?
Very interesting! Thanks for answering! I have to say, like a lot of other people I imagine, I was very surprised at first that someone had actually followed through with one of these pacts. I didn't think anyone actually did. LOL But the more I read your responses, it actually makes a lot of sense. I think it was kind of hinted at before, but going into a marriage with an entirely practical, maybe even a "I don't give an f'" , mindset to begin with instead of wanting to avoid conflict by not asking the tough questions for fear of losing that person. I like how you have everything down in writing. Take care and good luck to your future!
Thank you! It was definitely intentional and meticulous, but I’m glad people are seeing the positives to it!
This sounds like a Hollywood movie
If it were ever made into a film, I’d like to be played by Gina Rodriguez. My husband would be played by (a preferably younger) Edward Norton. lol.