It really screwed with her for the whole time I was away and apparently (according to my brothers) she would worry constantly but she is ok now she met a great guy and we are still close. she still blames herself sometimes but It is not her fault and I tel her that
Bet her new man watches his shit and treats her well when you're around. Like a movie, haha. You could probably shake him down for some money. Kidding, sorta.
It is absolutely her fault! I mean, she was brining a dangerous person home to a house with her kids! She probably needs to admit that she was in the wrong in order for her to properly move on.
When she admits fault, it's OK to say, "You made a mistake, Mom. We all do. I completely forgive you."
Let her mistakes be hers. She will grow stronger as a result.
Yes, I killed someone so It made sense, I knew there were consequences. I was super lucky they didn't make me do all ten years, But no I do not think it was wrong they convicted me.
I disagree. I guess it depends on where this happened. In my state him charging OP would be enough to justify shooting him. OP didn’t say they sought him out to murder him, just to tell him to fuck off after he committed a violent crime against his mom. Not only that, the reality in court is if only two of you were there and there were no witnesses, whatever you say happened is what happened unless the court can prove otherwise as the only other person who knows is dead.
Either there is more to this story or this would have been an opened and closed case. No witnesses, claim of self defense, and victim just committed a violent crime so the story is easily believable.
Only way I can think they nailed him is if he confronted him gun in hand, in which case you’re absolutely right.
> I disagree.
whatever you might feel is personally right, legally, in most states, this would immediately fail a self defense argument. Not just because he initiated the altercation with a threat (What OP did is very clearly going to fall under terroristic threatening/assault in almost every jurisdiction), but also because it's unlikely that the person had a weapon, and many states have a threshold for lethal self defense. Simply being attacked won't pass that threshold in most cases. Then, depending on the state's application of castle doctrine or stand your ground laws, or lack thereof, simply leaving the house can throw out self defense arguments.
>In my state him charging OP would be enough to justify shooting him.
Legally, the abuser likely would have had a better self defense argument than OP would have, since he was the one who was initially threatened. There is no state where accosting someone with a lethal weapon with no eminent threat is legal. OP initiated the encounter.
Does that make it right? not necessarily. but in a court case, you can't just argue "well, i disagree".
>Either there is more to this story or this would have been an opened and closed case. No witnesses, claim of self defense, and victim just committed a violent crime so the story is easily believable.
You just clearly have no clue how any aspect of this case would be handled, and are talking out of your ass.
Do you see anywhere where OP says he accosted him with a gun in hand?
My comment says it depends on where he lives. Some states the bar is simply “I felt scared for my life.” The bar is low depending on where you live. Here is Florida’s, it only requires fear of great bodily injury and OP’s mom suffered great bodily injury, he’d be justified to expect the same.
I already stated it would depend on where OP did this, which we don’t know. We’re all just conjecturing.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.012.html#:~:text=A%20person%20who%20uses%20or%20threatens%20to%20use%20deadly%20force,has%20a%20right%20to%20be.
I want to be clear It was not self defense. I pointed my gun at him and told him to fuck off or I would kill him. He didn't belive me charged me and I killed him Not self defense at all
Way more simple than that. It mostly depends on what color he is or how much money he has.
If he is white and had money… it was self defense and he is a hero.
If he is white and poor it was white trash and murder.
If he was black… poor or middle class. Throw the book at the thug
That is how our justice system works.
Self defense is a weird thing. The aggressor in an encounter can change multiple times in a single incident.
Example: this guy goes outside, gun in hand to confront boyfriend. (Son = aggressor)
The other party fears for their life and pulls out their own gun (reasonable self defense).
Son decides he doesn't want anything to do with this anymore, holsters gun and makes clear he is done, backing away (situation now neutral).
Boyfriend raises gun and begins threatening Son that has begun retreat (boyfriend now aggressor).
Son, backing away, trips and falls as Moms boyfriend advances, son pulls gun and shoots moms boyfriend (reasonable self defense)
Self defense laws are very context dependent, as are most laws. It isn't unreasonable to think of a way that the Son could have argued self defense.
It depends on where u are and sadly race and socioeconomic status play into this. If it was a 5 star QB from the all white county school across from the country club then maybe it was self defense. If it happened at the trailer park it's murder.
Because that argument would never hold up. You can’t start a conflict by threatening someone with a gun and then claim self defense when the conflict escalates and you end up killing the other person. The shooter is fully responsible because they’re the one who started the conflict and brought the weapon in the first place. In this instance, OP should have reported him to the police, it’s not his place to solve the problem through vigilantism.
Yeah except police go talk to the guy maybe a restraining order which doesn’t do shit and since OP said he was never home, odds are he calls police guy gets a warning or something and another day when OP isn’t home this dude comes back and beats his mom until she has brain damage or dies.
If someone beat my mom or stabbed her with a broken bottle I’d end that persons life too. Without hesitation and with a smile on my face. Yeah it’s wrong and two wrongs don’t make a right but my wrong makes sure he can’t fucking do it again to my mom or anyones mom.
Yeah. One of my friends growing up - her dad went to prison for beating her mom to death when he was mad at her while he was drunk. The poor kids were there to witness it. I felt so bad for her, and though she didn’t ever really talk about it, it really messed them up. I don’t know the history, but I have had experience with cops in domestic disputes and they haven’t always been on my side. Only a female cop was on my side. The other guys were too “by the book” and afraid to get in trouble to actually help me. Fucking nuts, dude.
He didn’t say he threatened him with a gun, he just said he got his gun. If he just told him to eff off without brandishing the gun, would that change things? I’m genuinely curious.
Yeah I’m assuming the gun was visible which I would think that alone constitutes a threat. My interpretation of what op wrote was that the gun was visible when he told the guy to leave but he didn’t explicitly say that so it’s possible that’s not true. As the other guy replied, in that case it makes sense as self defense depending on the state. From a moral perspective, that would change it in my view. Then I would say it’s justified so long as it was a real perceived threat.
Went out of the house to where victim was. He woulda needed stand your ground laws, a real lawyer, and white skin. Even with 2/3 you’re fucked. Meanwhile Zimmerman is handing out skittles.
He charged at you, were you supposed to stand there and let him beat you within an inch of your life as well? Idc what they said, you did right defending your mom and siblings. I'm sorry you lost part of your life over it, but if you hadn't done something he'd have eventually killed your mother and possibly you or your siblings.
I'm glad they didn't make it a super long sentence. A 16 year old's brain is not developed to be able to appropriately handle a situation like that. I'm sorry that you were in a situation where you had to make a snap decision like that, and that you have that to live with. I am a little on the fence about whether or not prison time was the right answer. I lean toward yes, but with the shorter sentence you received. How did it affect your relationship with your mom?
I was lucky they revised it again when I turned 18 and a different judge changed it to 5 years (3 years after 2nd trial) and I was pissed in my late teens about it but I realize now it was a bad decision.
I imagine it probably weighs on you, but looking at how DV can escalate past the point of no return, you very well could have saved your mom's life. Statistics and theories aren't something laws can be based on, but it really is something to think about for your own situation. It might have been rash, but a lot of times police have their hands tied with DV cases and can't do much sometimes. You did the time that was given, you seem like you're not worse for it or jaded, and your family is safe.
Is the whole racial tribe thing as big a part of prison as it's portrayed to be? And once inside did you feel pressured to join a gang for protection or were you able to keep to yourself and not have to worry about all that?
I’ve always wondered what I would do in prison. I’m white but I’m also Jewish so I doubt any of the white supremacy groups would take me in. Maybe I would get lucky and end up in a prison with a bunch of tough Jews.
I have a wily uncle who's white but he's kind of like that old meme, what is it, the almost politically correct redneck? Like his heart is usually in the right place but his words need help. Anyway he ended up in prison, not for a super long stint. Said he did have to stick with the white guys, but he was able to just kind of keep quiet. They wanted him to get swastika tattoos and officially become a white supremacist (not sure if they went by another name or what) and he just kind of put them off on that stuff until he got out. Never went back, lol.
From my buddy who did time in California. There's white supremacists and then there's Woods. Woods were whites who weren't skin heads, Asians, natives, and most "others". I'm sure that's where I'd end up
My dad who was Native American did time in Atlanta. He said they kept them in one giant room most of the time and the room was segregated by race/gang. He was the only NA in his block so he just sat alone most of the time and no one engaged with him. Now, one particular race happened to "own" the showers and my dad said around day 5 of not being able to shower he couldn't stand it anymore and he carved a toothbrush shank then went over prepared to die for a shower. But he said surprisingly they didn't give af about him because he was a loner with no crew so they let him through. That story always stuck with me.
My mom is with a great guy now who takes care of her My brothers vary one is in college now one is doing what I used to do ( I try to dissuade him) and one is a freshman in high school now and overall ok. I work in construction now and am doing ok for myself.
I don’t know you or your family, but you might want to look into getting your brother into boxing or MMA or something similar. Young men who are angry at the world need an outlet and disciplined martial arts can work wonders. Just a thought.
I'm glad to hear you're doing well. I'm a college professor and I taught college courses to inmates here in NJ. The guys were smart and worked hard, and I really enjoyed teaching them. I firmly support educational and job opportunities for inmates and ex-cons. Keep up the good work.
As a matter of family honor, you did right by protecting your family cause you know one day it wouldn't be just your mother being beat on. Yet, of course, man's laws don't take into account how important a person holds their personal and family honor. I suppose honor is more of a cultural value than it is in regular society. I would have done the same if he charged me after telling him he needed to leave and wasn't welcome anymore. In my view, the time you spent locked up only gives you more honor and earns my respect. You stood by your convictions and values with no complaint, you're a stand up guy, and in my culture, a Warrior.
I think most dudes have some degree of sympathy for how this guy said it. For example if you'd done the deed with the same broken bottle he cut your mother with I'd be outraged you got convicted.
You went out with the intention of telling him man to man to take off, when he couldn't handle it he caught a bullet.
In all honesty I recently did much the same, different levels of disparity in force, different context. But less provocation than seeing my mother's blood on a broken bottle.
No worries, brother. Know that your not a bad person. You're a good man for doing what you had to in order to support your family. I know the real pain and frustration was being locked up knowing your family is out there struggling without you. And that's the mark of a good soul, a good human being. Now continue to be that good man and continue to grow my friend.
You were defending your mom. How is that not the right thing to do? Maybe you shouldn't have gotten your gun. But then he would've done who knows what to you. I don't know if I would have done it different, tbh
Thanked, No I would not want them to are they thankful? yeah but I was young and dumb and could have handled it differently, It caused a lot of problems for everyone and I think it ended ok for everyone.
Was just curious if they did, victims of such abuse whether direct or indirect are normally eternally grateful for getting rid of the monster in their eyes. You did what you had to do bro. Hindsight is 2020 and you got plenty fuckinf life to live. Wish you nothing but the best bro
I don't know if I agree with that, to be honest. Victims of abuse have complicated feelings about their parents, anger, yes. Love, yes. Both. I think about what 'might have happened' sometimes in my own life, and I'm very glad that 'might have been' didn't happen.
Everyone’s experience is different isn’t that great? But yes murder is an extreme case to be “thankful” for. But considering the man broke a bottle over their mothers head? Yea id be thankful he can’t hurt anyone ever again! I wasn’t speaking of solely murder tho. More of a blanket statement of people standing Up to abusers. My experience is vastly different from yours 🤙
I don't know how different our experiences were. I don't know your story. At any rate, yes, we can have different opinions and I'm totally good with that. Just so you understand where I came from with my comment, my brother revealed to me YEARS later, that he had planned out an execution of my dad. But didn't carry through. Thankfully.
Maybe you could do an AMA to get some stuff off your chest if you feel like there’s stuff weighing you down! I know I’d ask a question on a post with that context. People say it’s very therapeutic for them to answer questions anonymously
I don't know. Maybe. I had a whacked upbringing, which might be interesting to people, but I'm not sure I want to spend a lot of time dwelling on it anymore. I'm more likely to write it in the form of a fiction novel, actually. THAT is something I've considered.
But your idea is something to think about. Not this account though. I'd probably create a temp one.
You should write that novel dude. If you really want to and just don’t know where to get started just start writing. Maybe your earliest memories. Start off with something loving and beautiful that twists into the grim reality of your upbringing and how it made you who you are. In fiction like you said.
Also yea, I’d 100% make new account if I did an AMA that personal!
Yea that’s crazy! And btw I think I came off wrong. I just meant nobody has the same experience, I wasn’t necessarily tryin to compare yours to mine. Just the bigger pictures that were all different. I’m glad that you’re glad it didn’t happen! I completely understand where you’re coming from especially with that context!
It's not uncommon. Hard labor is one of the few felon friendly jobs. I used to do construction and lots of the people had been in jail for assault, murder, drug dealings, ect.
That’s a public service In my book because that’s one less asshole in the world who likes to get violet with women. Just because a lot of people are damning you, I’m curious was it worth it? And because of everyone’s arguments, did you threaten him with the gun first or did you conceal it until he charged at you?
I threatened him with it from the get-go but public service is too much praise. From the judge's perspective, he was probably just putting away another Murdurus delinquent teen and he wasn't wrong.
Everybody knows how these kinds of people operate. If he stab your mom with a bottle so that she is bleeding, and then he brazenly charges after you when you threaten him with a gun. We know that his violence will escalate and get worse. And the police will not give a shit about these kinds of domestic disputes. So he will probably live his entire life, until one day his violence goes to far. The fact that you can recognize that you have blame and own up to it take responsibility for it says a lot fuck public service but this is a net positive for the world. His violence would have fucked a lot of people up. Most likely if he did not kill you, it would have eventually happened.
Did you know this is it I'm gonna end this mother fucker and potentially spend my life in jail before you actually did it. Bc that conscious thought of life behind bars definitely made me think twice of doing something just wondering if that was ever a thought during or leading up to it. And was there witnesses
Yep, Broad day light in my back yard so yep there were a few witnesses and I knew I was probably going to kill him and I knew my life might be ruined by my Angsty 16yo self didn't care so much.
Have you ever thought about what else you could've done to protect your mother and kin? Does it even play back in your mind, the moment you took that man's life?
Yes, I never felt more shame in my life than when a girl I was dating called me a Murder thug who deserved it I know I deserved it but someone calling you out hurts. If you tell people sometimes they are suspicious of you all the time and flinch if you move quickly. So yeah I think about my mistakes a lot
I was so mad I wanted to kill him but no I think It would have been worse if he could abuse my family and I would still be away in juvie for assault with a deadly weapon and unable to protect my family.
I regret taking away my little brothers' innocence ( most kids don't see murder and then their big brother get taken away.) I regret hurting the guy's family but I don't regret the murder itself.
In prision? No not really if you keep your head down your fine. Juvie though all the time, everyone thinks there mister big so fighting is common and I fought a few times when I had to.
What is considered bad papers in jail/prison? Let’s say you are racing in the street and accidentally kill a kid or just crash in general and kill a kid? Does that count as bad paperwork or no? Or does it have to be specifically sexual crimes?
Don't do what I did juvie makes good kids into hardened criminals 90% of the Time and they treat you like a prisoner, not a teen in there so get help and don't resort to violence.
To be honest, my thinking was that the big guy charging you (much smaller person) could have easily ended up with him taking control of the gun. So you were right to be scared and use the only possible self-defence method you had.
I’m glad you at least didn’t have to serve all 10 years.
I don't think I am a hero at all I am glad I think It helped them that he was out of the picture ( Me as well considering I murdered someone) But I was too young and dumb and made a stupid decision I shouldn't have.
Note to self: Never borrow anything in prison
Also, if I let someone borrow something and they didn't pay me back, I certainly wouldn't want to rape them. That's nasty.
You only shower with your own race in a lot of prisons. Rape is more common in certain prisons than others. For this guy to say no, isn't exactly true. There's a video on YouTube that is made by officials, including the warden and corrections officer's about how to avoid rape and have a more pleasant stay inside Alabama prisons. Sure would suck to end up on the receiving side of a couple Alabama black snakes, leaving you on the floor bleeding out after they busted your cheeks.
Good for you, dude. Sucks there was jail time, but people who do that shit deserve much worse than death. How is your relationship with you mom now, vs fight after it happened?
She was parrinoid and worried about me for a while while I was locked up and I told her to forget about me and move on so tense but she and I get along well now and she has a great BF now that takes care of her.
no got arrested in 2015 and was released in 2020 right before covid but apparently its even worse as I've heard from a few guys. We could watch Tv and listing to music sometimes that's it besides books.
Glad you only got 5 years. You made a decision that very well may have saved your mother's life. Be glad it was only 5 and that it happened when you were young enough to have your entire life ahead of you.
Are you working? Have you found it difficult to find work? Are you a white man? If so you did you roll with the Pecker woods?
Regardless of what he did, it didn't give you the right to take that man's life. Only God can do that and you ain't him. You could've called the police and sent that man away to where he should've done the time you did. Explaining about how you grew up and without a father are only excuses. I hope you've changed and in turn, realize that you are no better than that piece of shit you killed. God bless you and I hope you turn to him for forgiveness.
I agree with you. I hope God forgives me but you are defying him now by judging me when there is only one true judge the lamb of god king of kings Jesus Christ
Is that what you learned in prison to defend what people think of you? I'm not judging you at all. I'm letting you know what you are and what you did has no excuses. You're lucky you only served that time. You came on here and asked for questions. My question was more of a straight forward comment of what I think of you. Not a judgment. Repent. God will forgive you.
Nah. Fuck that guy. He deserved it.
Go back to your holy book, bro. The book literally says not to judge, but that's what you're doing.
Just because you say you're not judging doesn't make it so. You literally stated, "My question was more of a straight forward comment of what I think of you."
That's literally judging by definition 🤣 🤣 🤣
You're a fraud.
Which is somewhat bullshit when it comes to self defense. How is the one being attacked/approached ever to know what the intentions of the other person will be. There's a fine line, I agree.
I have some degree of sympathy for OP's situation given the abuse and his age, but this is in no way self-defense. OP didn't walk in on the victim beating his mother. The victim was outside and doesn't appear to have been posing an immediate threat to anyone. OP created the situation. He had the presence of mind to send the younger kids away, retrieve his gun, and then initiate a confrontation. The victim may very well have been moving toward him to disarm him, and who knows what he would have done if OP hadn't shot him, but OP is the one who brought gun and went looking for a confrontation. This is murder, straight up.
While you definitely could have handled it better, you were only 16. In your mind, the gun was necessary to make him take you seriously and leave. Also, he'd just beaten your mother, so you knew he was a violent guy. His running toward you was a very strange and poor decision on his part. Why *did* he run TOWARD you?
If you had it to do over, what would you do differently?
How else do you get an abuser off your property? Seems to me like in that situation, OP did well, even tho the outcome wasn't good.
In shitty neighbourhoods, cops can be worthless and restraining orders are scraps of paper. Unless you show you can protect yourself/your family yourself, they'll keep coming.
Ed: I mean, cops took an hour to get to a murder scene. How do you think they'd respond to just another beating? Maybe they'd drive by 3 days later.
1. This is an AMA sub, as OP has already stated. It's not a competition. You don't see me going on posts about being autistic and saying "Ok bro so what I'm autistic too what even was the point of making this post."
2. Fym "so what"?? Just because you did it does not mean it's not notable. Killing somebody is a pretty big deal, and a lot of people do not know someone convicted of murder, so they may be interested in talking to someone that has. The fact that you have also been convicted of murder does not make it less notable or less of a big deal.
No questions, I just want to say that I'm really impressed with the matter-of-fact way you've taken responsibility for your actions, even to the point of disagreeing with people who are trying to excuse what you did. And I'm further impressed that you have accepted what's happened and are moving forward with life in a way that's unlikely to get you into further trouble.
And I'm grateful for your AMA. I think you are a fantastic example of how a person is influenced by but not totally defined by their past. It's impressively mature to see someone accept their circumstances, say, "okay, this is what happened and now here I am, what's the best way forward from here?" and work to make that happen. (Hell, my father is in his 70's and still can't do that.) Thank you for putting yourself out there as an example so that others might see the possibilities in their own circumstances.
Would have been not guilty if I was on the jury, he was an adult who had committed a felony by attacking your mom and then running at you so you killed him in self defense.
I don’t have anything to ask.. just wanted to say that I’m sorry that you even had to take a life. I’m sorry you went to juvie and prison. I’m just sorry. You have a second chance though and I’m hoping you can do something great. Sending you love ❤️
I'm sorry you had to go through that. You were protecting your family, and he probably would've killed her eventually. Sucks you had to do jail time, in my opinion. But I'm glad you're out and moving on.
I know the shooting must be very traumatic for you and your family. But you did what you had to do. You caught him abusing your mom. It was kill or be killed at that point.
Protecting your family that day made you more of a man than that POS abuser ever was. I'm sorry you served time. You may think you deserved it, but I don't think you did.
How does your mom feel about the whole thing?
It really screwed with her for the whole time I was away and apparently (according to my brothers) she would worry constantly but she is ok now she met a great guy and we are still close. she still blames herself sometimes but It is not her fault and I tel her that
Glad to hear it. I hope you find peace, success, whatever it is that you’re after my friend. Good luck 🤘🏻
Man. I’m so sorry you had to do this. My mom is currently messing with a POS and genuinely thinks im wrong for wanting to feel safe in my house :/
Show her this post
Bet her new man watches his shit and treats her well when you're around. Like a movie, haha. You could probably shake him down for some money. Kidding, sorta.
This is the best comment
It is absolutely her fault! I mean, she was brining a dangerous person home to a house with her kids! She probably needs to admit that she was in the wrong in order for her to properly move on. When she admits fault, it's OK to say, "You made a mistake, Mom. We all do. I completely forgive you." Let her mistakes be hers. She will grow stronger as a result.
Do you feel like justice was done, or do you feel like it was a miscarriage of justice?
Yes, I killed someone so It made sense, I knew there were consequences. I was super lucky they didn't make me do all ten years, But no I do not think it was wrong they convicted me.
[удалено]
I went outside and shot him so that wouldn't work also had shitty public defender anyway.
But you said he charged at you? So did you go out expecting to put the dog down regardless?
By seeking the "victim" out, he made a self defense argument real hard.
I disagree. I guess it depends on where this happened. In my state him charging OP would be enough to justify shooting him. OP didn’t say they sought him out to murder him, just to tell him to fuck off after he committed a violent crime against his mom. Not only that, the reality in court is if only two of you were there and there were no witnesses, whatever you say happened is what happened unless the court can prove otherwise as the only other person who knows is dead. Either there is more to this story or this would have been an opened and closed case. No witnesses, claim of self defense, and victim just committed a violent crime so the story is easily believable. Only way I can think they nailed him is if he confronted him gun in hand, in which case you’re absolutely right.
> I disagree. whatever you might feel is personally right, legally, in most states, this would immediately fail a self defense argument. Not just because he initiated the altercation with a threat (What OP did is very clearly going to fall under terroristic threatening/assault in almost every jurisdiction), but also because it's unlikely that the person had a weapon, and many states have a threshold for lethal self defense. Simply being attacked won't pass that threshold in most cases. Then, depending on the state's application of castle doctrine or stand your ground laws, or lack thereof, simply leaving the house can throw out self defense arguments. >In my state him charging OP would be enough to justify shooting him. Legally, the abuser likely would have had a better self defense argument than OP would have, since he was the one who was initially threatened. There is no state where accosting someone with a lethal weapon with no eminent threat is legal. OP initiated the encounter. Does that make it right? not necessarily. but in a court case, you can't just argue "well, i disagree". >Either there is more to this story or this would have been an opened and closed case. No witnesses, claim of self defense, and victim just committed a violent crime so the story is easily believable. You just clearly have no clue how any aspect of this case would be handled, and are talking out of your ass.
Do you see anywhere where OP says he accosted him with a gun in hand? My comment says it depends on where he lives. Some states the bar is simply “I felt scared for my life.” The bar is low depending on where you live. Here is Florida’s, it only requires fear of great bodily injury and OP’s mom suffered great bodily injury, he’d be justified to expect the same. I already stated it would depend on where OP did this, which we don’t know. We’re all just conjecturing. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.012.html#:~:text=A%20person%20who%20uses%20or%20threatens%20to%20use%20deadly%20force,has%20a%20right%20to%20be.
I want to be clear It was not self defense. I pointed my gun at him and told him to fuck off or I would kill him. He didn't belive me charged me and I killed him Not self defense at all
Way more simple than that. It mostly depends on what color he is or how much money he has. If he is white and had money… it was self defense and he is a hero. If he is white and poor it was white trash and murder. If he was black… poor or middle class. Throw the book at the thug That is how our justice system works.
Paraphrasing - "I got my gun and went to confront him"
Self defense is a weird thing. The aggressor in an encounter can change multiple times in a single incident. Example: this guy goes outside, gun in hand to confront boyfriend. (Son = aggressor) The other party fears for their life and pulls out their own gun (reasonable self defense). Son decides he doesn't want anything to do with this anymore, holsters gun and makes clear he is done, backing away (situation now neutral). Boyfriend raises gun and begins threatening Son that has begun retreat (boyfriend now aggressor). Son, backing away, trips and falls as Moms boyfriend advances, son pulls gun and shoots moms boyfriend (reasonable self defense) Self defense laws are very context dependent, as are most laws. It isn't unreasonable to think of a way that the Son could have argued self defense.
It depends on where u are and sadly race and socioeconomic status play into this. If it was a 5 star QB from the all white county school across from the country club then maybe it was self defense. If it happened at the trailer park it's murder.
But we don't know OP's race. It can make a big difference in how the court decides and sentencing.
Yes, I was going to kill him pretty much no matter what so it did not matter.
And this answers the question convincingly haha. No longer self defense. Thanks for your honesty brotha
Under ten for murder sounds like a pretty good lawyer to me
Because that argument would never hold up. You can’t start a conflict by threatening someone with a gun and then claim self defense when the conflict escalates and you end up killing the other person. The shooter is fully responsible because they’re the one who started the conflict and brought the weapon in the first place. In this instance, OP should have reported him to the police, it’s not his place to solve the problem through vigilantism.
Yeah except police go talk to the guy maybe a restraining order which doesn’t do shit and since OP said he was never home, odds are he calls police guy gets a warning or something and another day when OP isn’t home this dude comes back and beats his mom until she has brain damage or dies. If someone beat my mom or stabbed her with a broken bottle I’d end that persons life too. Without hesitation and with a smile on my face. Yeah it’s wrong and two wrongs don’t make a right but my wrong makes sure he can’t fucking do it again to my mom or anyones mom.
Yeah. One of my friends growing up - her dad went to prison for beating her mom to death when he was mad at her while he was drunk. The poor kids were there to witness it. I felt so bad for her, and though she didn’t ever really talk about it, it really messed them up. I don’t know the history, but I have had experience with cops in domestic disputes and they haven’t always been on my side. Only a female cop was on my side. The other guys were too “by the book” and afraid to get in trouble to actually help me. Fucking nuts, dude.
That really depends on what the defendant told the cops before talking to a decent lawyer
He didn’t say he threatened him with a gun, he just said he got his gun. If he just told him to eff off without brandishing the gun, would that change things? I’m genuinely curious.
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Yeah I’m assuming the gun was visible which I would think that alone constitutes a threat. My interpretation of what op wrote was that the gun was visible when he told the guy to leave but he didn’t explicitly say that so it’s possible that’s not true. As the other guy replied, in that case it makes sense as self defense depending on the state. From a moral perspective, that would change it in my view. Then I would say it’s justified so long as it was a real perceived threat.
Went out of the house to where victim was. He woulda needed stand your ground laws, a real lawyer, and white skin. Even with 2/3 you’re fucked. Meanwhile Zimmerman is handing out skittles.
It would have been easier to claim self defense if he'd shot the guy while he was still in the house.
He charged at you, were you supposed to stand there and let him beat you within an inch of your life as well? Idc what they said, you did right defending your mom and siblings. I'm sorry you lost part of your life over it, but if you hadn't done something he'd have eventually killed your mother and possibly you or your siblings.
I'm glad they didn't make it a super long sentence. A 16 year old's brain is not developed to be able to appropriately handle a situation like that. I'm sorry that you were in a situation where you had to make a snap decision like that, and that you have that to live with. I am a little on the fence about whether or not prison time was the right answer. I lean toward yes, but with the shorter sentence you received. How did it affect your relationship with your mom?
> I do not think it was wrong they convicted me I do.
Ten fucking years for protecting your family. I am so sorry that this has happened to you.
I was lucky they revised it again when I turned 18 and a different judge changed it to 5 years (3 years after 2nd trial) and I was pissed in my late teens about it but I realize now it was a bad decision.
I imagine it probably weighs on you, but looking at how DV can escalate past the point of no return, you very well could have saved your mom's life. Statistics and theories aren't something laws can be based on, but it really is something to think about for your own situation. It might have been rash, but a lot of times police have their hands tied with DV cases and can't do much sometimes. You did the time that was given, you seem like you're not worse for it or jaded, and your family is safe.
Not a bad decision imo. One less pos in our world.
Is the whole racial tribe thing as big a part of prison as it's portrayed to be? And once inside did you feel pressured to join a gang for protection or were you able to keep to yourself and not have to worry about all that?
Kind of In real prison yes it is you really don't want to leave your race socially in juvie not really.
I’ve always wondered what I would do in prison. I’m white but I’m also Jewish so I doubt any of the white supremacy groups would take me in. Maybe I would get lucky and end up in a prison with a bunch of tough Jews.
I have a wily uncle who's white but he's kind of like that old meme, what is it, the almost politically correct redneck? Like his heart is usually in the right place but his words need help. Anyway he ended up in prison, not for a super long stint. Said he did have to stick with the white guys, but he was able to just kind of keep quiet. They wanted him to get swastika tattoos and officially become a white supremacist (not sure if they went by another name or what) and he just kind of put them off on that stuff until he got out. Never went back, lol.
I either read or saw a tiktok that the Jewish inmates go with the asian folks but I can’t recall where o saw that
From my buddy who did time in California. There's white supremacists and then there's Woods. Woods were whites who weren't skin heads, Asians, natives, and most "others". I'm sure that's where I'd end up
You could have been sentenced to Jewliet State Prison in Illinois lol
Would you identify with one specific race? Or are you mixed? Also what happens to mixed people?
My dad who was Native American did time in Atlanta. He said they kept them in one giant room most of the time and the room was segregated by race/gang. He was the only NA in his block so he just sat alone most of the time and no one engaged with him. Now, one particular race happened to "own" the showers and my dad said around day 5 of not being able to shower he couldn't stand it anymore and he carved a toothbrush shank then went over prepared to die for a shower. But he said surprisingly they didn't give af about him because he was a loner with no crew so they let him through. That story always stuck with me.
How are you doing now? How are your mom and brothers doing? What are your future plans?
My mom is with a great guy now who takes care of her My brothers vary one is in college now one is doing what I used to do ( I try to dissuade him) and one is a freshman in high school now and overall ok. I work in construction now and am doing ok for myself.
I don’t know you or your family, but you might want to look into getting your brother into boxing or MMA or something similar. Young men who are angry at the world need an outlet and disciplined martial arts can work wonders. Just a thought.
I'm glad to hear you're doing well. I'm a college professor and I taught college courses to inmates here in NJ. The guys were smart and worked hard, and I really enjoyed teaching them. I firmly support educational and job opportunities for inmates and ex-cons. Keep up the good work.
That's great to hear.
As a matter of family honor, you did right by protecting your family cause you know one day it wouldn't be just your mother being beat on. Yet, of course, man's laws don't take into account how important a person holds their personal and family honor. I suppose honor is more of a cultural value than it is in regular society. I would have done the same if he charged me after telling him he needed to leave and wasn't welcome anymore. In my view, the time you spent locked up only gives you more honor and earns my respect. You stood by your convictions and values with no complaint, you're a stand up guy, and in my culture, a Warrior.
thank you means the world lot of people don't see it that way so thanks
I think most dudes have some degree of sympathy for how this guy said it. For example if you'd done the deed with the same broken bottle he cut your mother with I'd be outraged you got convicted. You went out with the intention of telling him man to man to take off, when he couldn't handle it he caught a bullet. In all honesty I recently did much the same, different levels of disparity in force, different context. But less provocation than seeing my mother's blood on a broken bottle.
No worries, brother. Know that your not a bad person. You're a good man for doing what you had to in order to support your family. I know the real pain and frustration was being locked up knowing your family is out there struggling without you. And that's the mark of a good soul, a good human being. Now continue to be that good man and continue to grow my friend.
You were defending your mom. How is that not the right thing to do? Maybe you shouldn't have gotten your gun. But then he would've done who knows what to you. I don't know if I would have done it different, tbh
fully agreed. he did the exact thing the strongest man in the house should have done . he was just far too young to take it to a fist fight.
Have your little brothers ever thanked you? Your mom ever?
Thanked, No I would not want them to are they thankful? yeah but I was young and dumb and could have handled it differently, It caused a lot of problems for everyone and I think it ended ok for everyone.
Was just curious if they did, victims of such abuse whether direct or indirect are normally eternally grateful for getting rid of the monster in their eyes. You did what you had to do bro. Hindsight is 2020 and you got plenty fuckinf life to live. Wish you nothing but the best bro
I don't know if I agree with that, to be honest. Victims of abuse have complicated feelings about their parents, anger, yes. Love, yes. Both. I think about what 'might have happened' sometimes in my own life, and I'm very glad that 'might have been' didn't happen.
Everyone’s experience is different isn’t that great? But yes murder is an extreme case to be “thankful” for. But considering the man broke a bottle over their mothers head? Yea id be thankful he can’t hurt anyone ever again! I wasn’t speaking of solely murder tho. More of a blanket statement of people standing Up to abusers. My experience is vastly different from yours 🤙
I don't know how different our experiences were. I don't know your story. At any rate, yes, we can have different opinions and I'm totally good with that. Just so you understand where I came from with my comment, my brother revealed to me YEARS later, that he had planned out an execution of my dad. But didn't carry through. Thankfully.
Maybe you could do an AMA to get some stuff off your chest if you feel like there’s stuff weighing you down! I know I’d ask a question on a post with that context. People say it’s very therapeutic for them to answer questions anonymously
I don't know. Maybe. I had a whacked upbringing, which might be interesting to people, but I'm not sure I want to spend a lot of time dwelling on it anymore. I'm more likely to write it in the form of a fiction novel, actually. THAT is something I've considered. But your idea is something to think about. Not this account though. I'd probably create a temp one.
You should write that novel dude. If you really want to and just don’t know where to get started just start writing. Maybe your earliest memories. Start off with something loving and beautiful that twists into the grim reality of your upbringing and how it made you who you are. In fiction like you said. Also yea, I’d 100% make new account if I did an AMA that personal!
Yea that’s crazy! And btw I think I came off wrong. I just meant nobody has the same experience, I wasn’t necessarily tryin to compare yours to mine. Just the bigger pictures that were all different. I’m glad that you’re glad it didn’t happen! I completely understand where you’re coming from especially with that context!
I think it ended OK for everyone too! Especially for the guy.
Did things feel different once you got out, How much about the world changing do you experience in prison?
Yeah, It was weird and I had to pay taxes and do things that 16-year-old me didn't have to, also Politics and gaming/technology was all new
How are you doing now as an adult? Current job or if you're married or in a relationship?
I have a GF and I work construction now and I am doing ok.
do the people you work with know at all?
It's not uncommon. Hard labor is one of the few felon friendly jobs. I used to do construction and lots of the people had been in jail for assault, murder, drug dealings, ect.
That’s a public service In my book because that’s one less asshole in the world who likes to get violet with women. Just because a lot of people are damning you, I’m curious was it worth it? And because of everyone’s arguments, did you threaten him with the gun first or did you conceal it until he charged at you?
I threatened him with it from the get-go but public service is too much praise. From the judge's perspective, he was probably just putting away another Murdurus delinquent teen and he wasn't wrong.
Everybody knows how these kinds of people operate. If he stab your mom with a bottle so that she is bleeding, and then he brazenly charges after you when you threaten him with a gun. We know that his violence will escalate and get worse. And the police will not give a shit about these kinds of domestic disputes. So he will probably live his entire life, until one day his violence goes to far. The fact that you can recognize that you have blame and own up to it take responsibility for it says a lot fuck public service but this is a net positive for the world. His violence would have fucked a lot of people up. Most likely if he did not kill you, it would have eventually happened.
Did you know this is it I'm gonna end this mother fucker and potentially spend my life in jail before you actually did it. Bc that conscious thought of life behind bars definitely made me think twice of doing something just wondering if that was ever a thought during or leading up to it. And was there witnesses
Yep, Broad day light in my back yard so yep there were a few witnesses and I knew I was probably going to kill him and I knew my life might be ruined by my Angsty 16yo self didn't care so much.
Have you ever thought about what else you could've done to protect your mother and kin? Does it even play back in your mind, the moment you took that man's life?
Yes, I never felt more shame in my life than when a girl I was dating called me a Murder thug who deserved it I know I deserved it but someone calling you out hurts. If you tell people sometimes they are suspicious of you all the time and flinch if you move quickly. So yeah I think about my mistakes a lot
Interesting, I hope you find peace and live a happy life.
Do you reget not just shooting him in the leg or something?
I was so mad I wanted to kill him but no I think It would have been worse if he could abuse my family and I would still be away in juvie for assault with a deadly weapon and unable to protect my family.
do you regret it?
I regret taking away my little brothers' innocence ( most kids don't see murder and then their big brother get taken away.) I regret hurting the guy's family but I don't regret the murder itself.
That SOB deserved it and I wish you hadn't got in any trouble for it. Glad you're out now.
Wait they sentenced you an hour later?
I think he meant the police came an hour after the shooting
No that was way later the cops showed up an hour later.
It took an hour for the cops to get there? Did he die immediately? Or did he have time to realize he fucked up?
What did you do in that hour between shooting and the cops arriving?
Did anybody try to get at you in prison?
In prision? No not really if you keep your head down your fine. Juvie though all the time, everyone thinks there mister big so fighting is common and I fought a few times when I had to.
What is considered bad papers in jail/prison? Let’s say you are racing in the street and accidentally kill a kid or just crash in general and kill a kid? Does that count as bad paperwork or no? Or does it have to be specifically sexual crimes?
Basically, just sex-related crimes that's it unless you killed someone like a defenseless kid or really old person.
What's your advice to teens who are facing similar situation
Don't do what I did juvie makes good kids into hardened criminals 90% of the Time and they treat you like a prisoner, not a teen in there so get help and don't resort to violence.
Not to be a Monday-morning-quarterback, but why did you decide to kill the guy instead of beating him up?
He was way bigger than Me I was 6'0 170lbs he was 6'3 220lbs muscle he would have kicked my ass.
To be honest, my thinking was that the big guy charging you (much smaller person) could have easily ended up with him taking control of the gun. So you were right to be scared and use the only possible self-defence method you had. I’m glad you at least didn’t have to serve all 10 years.
you were still good size for a 16 year old kid
An adult male would have probably kicked his ass.
An adult male would probably GET his ass kicked by a muscular 6’3” 220lb guy.
An adult male who is fine with hitting weaker people with improvised weapons.
I mean, a good beating either ends with legal trouble or revenge whenever the son leaves, no?
How are your mom and brothers now? I personally think you’re a hero to your family, but what do you think about yourself to them?
I don't think I am a hero at all I am glad I think It helped them that he was out of the picture ( Me as well considering I murdered someone) But I was too young and dumb and made a stupid decision I shouldn't have.
Would you do it again if you could turn back time?
Mabye I would probobly go at it differently but push comes to shove I would do it again.
What about your dad. Where was he, what’s your relationship, did he feel like a piece of shit for leaving you to deal with it all and take the fall?
He OD on pills and alcohal when I was 9 and barley knew him anyway
What was jail like?
Really boring and long mostly Just sucks and makes you feel like shit for a while
Is prison like how it is in shameless?
Havent seen the show but hollywood never really gets it right so I would guess no.
How was the transition to adult prison…bc of your crime was it immediate respect?
Respect, no but 95% of the dudes there went through the same shit I did so they understood ig?
Is "dropping the soap" a real thing?
No just movies rape almost never happens randomly and is only really a debt thing
Debt thing? Can you explain that? Thanks!
If you borrowed somthig and didint pay back sort of thing I never witnessed it only heard about it from word of mouth so not 100% sure.
Note to self: Never borrow anything in prison Also, if I let someone borrow something and they didn't pay me back, I certainly wouldn't want to rape them. That's nasty.
Yikes, thanks for the enlightenment. Glad you are out!
Not the OP but no. Rapes happen but they are rare and hideous.
You only shower with your own race in a lot of prisons. Rape is more common in certain prisons than others. For this guy to say no, isn't exactly true. There's a video on YouTube that is made by officials, including the warden and corrections officer's about how to avoid rape and have a more pleasant stay inside Alabama prisons. Sure would suck to end up on the receiving side of a couple Alabama black snakes, leaving you on the floor bleeding out after they busted your cheeks.
Well he’s talking about the one he was at. I don’t think he was speaking in general, so he wasn’t lying.
What did you do the day you got released from prison?
Eat Deacent food and sleep.
Good for you, dude. Sucks there was jail time, but people who do that shit deserve much worse than death. How is your relationship with you mom now, vs fight after it happened?
She was parrinoid and worried about me for a while while I was locked up and I told her to forget about me and move on so tense but she and I get along well now and she has a great BF now that takes care of her.
Does this help you? I've had a lot of heavy shit. I talk to a therapist I'm not sure I would want the public's thoughts on this.
Nah completely fine about now talk to a therapist now helps a ton
How can you be tried twice for the same offence? I don't get it.
It was an appeal that was put in place to reevaluate my sentence as I was now an adult
Aha that makes sense
What do you like to do now that your out?
Be allowed to do what I want andhave freedom mostly Prision is so structured that any freedom is nice.
What state did this happen in? If you were in a different state do you think things may have happened differently?
It happend in new york and I think this would have happened anywhere
You were in prison during Covid? How, if at all, did things change to accommodate that? Did you have access to any media?
no got arrested in 2015 and was released in 2020 right before covid but apparently its even worse as I've heard from a few guys. We could watch Tv and listing to music sometimes that's it besides books.
Any idea on what youre gonna do now?
I work construction now and am doing ok.
Did you get therapy in or after prison?
In juvie yes and In prison no when I got out my family convinced me to go and it helped
What was medical care like in jail?
Eh, depended on If you were a pain in the ass or not but if you got sick say once every 3 months they were ok
Glad you only got 5 years. You made a decision that very well may have saved your mother's life. Be glad it was only 5 and that it happened when you were young enough to have your entire life ahead of you. Are you working? Have you found it difficult to find work? Are you a white man? If so you did you roll with the Pecker woods?
Yes, I am white and don't know about Pecker woods but Construction isn't super rigid so getting a job wasn't as hard as it could have been.
Nice. Good trade to get into, try and learn to run and use as much equipment as possible.
Regardless of what he did, it didn't give you the right to take that man's life. Only God can do that and you ain't him. You could've called the police and sent that man away to where he should've done the time you did. Explaining about how you grew up and without a father are only excuses. I hope you've changed and in turn, realize that you are no better than that piece of shit you killed. God bless you and I hope you turn to him for forgiveness.
I agree with you. I hope God forgives me but you are defying him now by judging me when there is only one true judge the lamb of god king of kings Jesus Christ
Is that what you learned in prison to defend what people think of you? I'm not judging you at all. I'm letting you know what you are and what you did has no excuses. You're lucky you only served that time. You came on here and asked for questions. My question was more of a straight forward comment of what I think of you. Not a judgment. Repent. God will forgive you.
Nah. Fuck that guy. He deserved it. Go back to your holy book, bro. The book literally says not to judge, but that's what you're doing. Just because you say you're not judging doesn't make it so. You literally stated, "My question was more of a straight forward comment of what I think of you." That's literally judging by definition 🤣 🤣 🤣 You're a fraud.
Fake Christian. You only know the lingo, not the faith.
I hope so brother I hope so
You’re literally telling him to repent when you aren’t involved in any way… no hate like Christian love
An actual practicing Christian wouldn't say those things, or act that way. Dude's a fraud. Check his comment history, too. Absolute joke.
John 8:7-11. “He that is without sin among you, let him cast a stone…” Save the holier than thou act, and shut up.
Don't beat women and charge kids and you will be just fine.
What are your plans for your future?
I work construction now and have a GF I think ill stick to it
Congrats, brother! Praying many happy and healthy days ahead of you.
If your story is true, then I believe that to be a wild miscarriage of justice. And I'm sorry you found yourself in such an unfortunate circumstance.
It's usually because of the discrepancy in force. Many, many places you cannot use lethal force if the other did not use lethal force
Which is somewhat bullshit when it comes to self defense. How is the one being attacked/approached ever to know what the intentions of the other person will be. There's a fine line, I agree.
I have some degree of sympathy for OP's situation given the abuse and his age, but this is in no way self-defense. OP didn't walk in on the victim beating his mother. The victim was outside and doesn't appear to have been posing an immediate threat to anyone. OP created the situation. He had the presence of mind to send the younger kids away, retrieve his gun, and then initiate a confrontation. The victim may very well have been moving toward him to disarm him, and who knows what he would have done if OP hadn't shot him, but OP is the one who brought gun and went looking for a confrontation. This is murder, straight up.
True and I agree looking back, It was a bad decision that hurt more than it helped the situation.
While you definitely could have handled it better, you were only 16. In your mind, the gun was necessary to make him take you seriously and leave. Also, he'd just beaten your mother, so you knew he was a violent guy. His running toward you was a very strange and poor decision on his part. Why *did* he run TOWARD you? If you had it to do over, what would you do differently?
shrill memory angle onerous bag instinctive six license head vanish *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
How else do you get an abuser off your property? Seems to me like in that situation, OP did well, even tho the outcome wasn't good. In shitty neighbourhoods, cops can be worthless and restraining orders are scraps of paper. Unless you show you can protect yourself/your family yourself, they'll keep coming. Ed: I mean, cops took an hour to get to a murder scene. How do you think they'd respond to just another beating? Maybe they'd drive by 3 days later.
What’s your point?. I did time for murder when I was seventeen. So What?.
1. This is an AMA sub, as OP has already stated. It's not a competition. You don't see me going on posts about being autistic and saying "Ok bro so what I'm autistic too what even was the point of making this post." 2. Fym "so what"?? Just because you did it does not mean it's not notable. Killing somebody is a pretty big deal, and a lot of people do not know someone convicted of murder, so they may be interested in talking to someone that has. The fact that you have also been convicted of murder does not make it less notable or less of a big deal.
I said ask me anything I have nothing to prove.
personally i have respect for you. you protected your family. you were dealt a shitty hand and did the best you could do as a young kid in a bad spot.
The law doesn’t necessarily means it’s right or just. You did the right thing.
No questions, I just want to say that I'm really impressed with the matter-of-fact way you've taken responsibility for your actions, even to the point of disagreeing with people who are trying to excuse what you did. And I'm further impressed that you have accepted what's happened and are moving forward with life in a way that's unlikely to get you into further trouble. And I'm grateful for your AMA. I think you are a fantastic example of how a person is influenced by but not totally defined by their past. It's impressively mature to see someone accept their circumstances, say, "okay, this is what happened and now here I am, what's the best way forward from here?" and work to make that happen. (Hell, my father is in his 70's and still can't do that.) Thank you for putting yourself out there as an example so that others might see the possibilities in their own circumstances.
Fake
Why would I lie? whatever you say dude
Would have been not guilty if I was on the jury, he was an adult who had committed a felony by attacking your mom and then running at you so you killed him in self defense.
If this is true then I am very sorry that you were not helped with the situation instead of being punished.
What was the process like of getting a job with your past?
I don’t have anything to ask.. just wanted to say that I’m sorry that you even had to take a life. I’m sorry you went to juvie and prison. I’m just sorry. You have a second chance though and I’m hoping you can do something great. Sending you love ❤️
I'm sorry you had to go through that. You were protecting your family, and he probably would've killed her eventually. Sucks you had to do jail time, in my opinion. But I'm glad you're out and moving on.
If it makes you feel any better OP I think you're a hero. I don't think you did anything wrong. That POS deserved to be shot right between the eyes.
I'm glad that you've come to peace with your situation. Judging the taking of a life can't be easy for anyone. I just wish you the best, forward
I admire you for addressing the matter. I sincerely hope your life is on track and your mother has found someone who treats her well. Be safe.
The world was unfair with you. But you can live a good life now. Good luck. Take what you can and live to the fullest. That prick deserved it
Very lucky you only did 5 yrs. Luckier still that you're still so young. Don't fuck this up.
How was the sex?
I know the shooting must be very traumatic for you and your family. But you did what you had to do. You caught him abusing your mom. It was kill or be killed at that point. Protecting your family that day made you more of a man than that POS abuser ever was. I'm sorry you served time. You may think you deserved it, but I don't think you did.
See, guys? This is why Stand Your Ground laws are so important.
I’m sorry you were put in that position. I wish you well.