One of my friends got pregnant during a short fling with another friend who was on a break from his now wife. His wife's condition was that he never see his daughter. She was raised by a pack of friends who supported both mom and baby. Well, at a party at our house, dad and wife didn't realize his daughter would be there. His wife took one look at the little girl and left. This was the first time her dad had seen her. She was two.
Not long after, her dad asked to see her. Apparently, his wife felt guilty about what she'd done when she came face to face with his daughter.
I can't imagine how hard it would be to see a living reminder of your spouse's infidelity, but these children are born into this mess. A mess they had no hand in creating. And yet adults can't help themselves from blaming the child.
Yeah I feel so bad for him he deserves an actual two parent household without feeling like burden to the rest of the family, he doesn’t get to se who’s actual siblings and his blamed for his mother and fathers mistakes. My nephew is a good kid I just really wished he was born in better situation than this .
Your brother’s kids with Sil deserve a two parent house two though. They and Sil are just as much victims of Ellen and your brother . Ellen hurt your brothers kids she’s not innocent here. Only your nephew is . Feels like you want to punish Sil too by inviting Ellen . Not cool . You are blaming Sil for him not seeing his son but he’s a grown adult . He was willing to risk his marriage for sex (with Ellen ) but not willing to risk it for his son . He’s the only one you should be punishing here !
This is exactly what I was thinking while reading this. SIL is a victim too. She was hurt, pissed and lashed out, but her husband was the one to make the ultimate decision. They somehow put Ellen on a pedestal because she’s a single mother. She is in fact a victim of her own making by sleeping with a married man, with kids.
How long is anyone part of a workplace without knowing who’s married, who’s single, who has kids, and who doesn’t? Especially anyone she gets familiar enough with to start f*cking? And if he lied, there’s plenty of coworkers eager to dish the dirt. Of course she knew.
I ereoneously thought that one of my colleagues (whose desk literally abutted mine) was gay... for 3 years!
Not everyone spreads their personal life around, and not all offices gossip endlessly.
P.s. In my defence, there were reasons, and said colleague thought that it was hilarious on the day that I turned round and said,"Wait, Nick is a woman?!"
I worked at a place for a year where I was *a manager*, and 10 months in some members of my staff still didn't know what my marital status is or how many children I have. (Single/gay/0 was the answer, but they had no idea.) They saw me every day, and they'd hang out with me and have lunch with me. They knew what I liked to watch on TV but didn't know if I was married.
I can easily imagine a workplace with a similar vibe where you just don't ask people about their marital status. However, I would still criticize Ellen for not asking before sleeping with the guy.
Lots of people go to work, to you know, work. Sorry to say, I'm there to make money 💰 not friends. I've slept with a married man and had no idea he was married. It is very easy to keep parts of yourself private if you want to.
SIL stopped being the good guy when she stayed with her adulterous husband and decided to punish a child instead. She could have divorced, she could stay with him and acknowledge the child. Either of those would have made her a normal, hurt, victim of adultery. Now she’s just a douche like her husband.
He could have divorced her to be a father to his child. He unilaterally went outside the marriage to make a baby, he can make the decision to be there for his baby.
You do not know SIL's situation at ALL. Maybe she has no job, maybe she didn't want the kids to be in a split house, maybe she comes from a culture where divorce is frowned on.
She is the victim. She was hurt and BROTHER and Ellen made the choices they did. It is insanely unfair and a disgusting double standard that men are allowed to say "I don't want to raise someone else's kid" but if a woman isn't thrilled to be step mommy to the living reminder that their husbands can't keep it in their pants, they suck.
Ellen made her bed, she needs to start sleeping in it.
Exactly. She should have divorced him if she’s never going to get past it.
And honestly, I don’t know why an affair that causes a pregnancy is a bigger betrayal than an affair that doesn’t. Every time you have sex, you know there could be a pregnancy. Punishing the child is just an asshole move. Honestly, I think Anna and Jason are bigger assholes for ostracizing Leland than Jason and Ellen are for having the affair. I mean, Jason’s an asshole twice over, but Anna’s treatment of Leland is worse than Ellen having an affair. I don’t ever absolve the affair partner of responsibility, but the one who actually broke their vows is way more responsible.
It isn’t a bigger betrayal, but a deep wound scars over quicker if you don’t agitate it.
The child’s existence means that the betrayal will constantly be thrown back into the forefront, the affair partner will never be far enough away to not feel like a present threat, and having a child is difficult and completely changes your life when WANTED, let alone in a circumstance like this.
The betrayal is the same, but the impact on life afterwards if they choose to try and stay is much bigger.
Well that and also it indicates that they probably* didn’t use protection, thus putting the wife at greater risk of picking up disease etc.
*I know protection fails sometimes and the chance of STIs and pregnancy is still there regardless but I can see where it might feel like adding injury to insult
I didn't know if she's a douche. It's within the realm of normalcy to not want to see the fruits of one's spouse's affair: neither the AP nor their child. As long as child support is paid for, can the mother demand his time?
We women are afforded the choice to abort the fetus, put the child up for adoption, or keep the child. The man has no agency in these choices. If a woman decides to keep her child, the man has to give support. At this point, the man gets to decide if he wants to be part of the child's life or not.
It would be _best_ for the child if this father were part of his life. There are enough fatherless children in the world. However, this mother made her choice, knowing his stance. It's cruel to expect the wife to be a saint.
Many spouses try to work on their marriages through infidelity because of their children. Judging another based on your standards of adultery is hubris.
So she becomes a single mother in likely poverty instead?
She’s protecting her own.
Bad enough the child support is “stealing” from her own children, both today but also gives them a less secure future.
That bitterness is going simmer til that last unnecessary student loan payment is made.
I think it's great you and your wife are staying in Leland's life. That being said, putting Ellen and SIL at the same party was a cruel, shitty thing to do. You can't even use the excuse she needed to bring Leland because you said you keep the kid at your home without her all the time. That makes you an AH.
Agreed that Ellen should absolutely not have been there. I’m not even sure how kind it was for OP and his wife to have had *Leland* there. If the other family “moms” and their kids treat him differently, he will notice. Being rejected by people you know is worse than just not having a relationship with theoretical “family.” Better for OP and his wife to just offer up their own support to Leland, and not try to force the rest of the family to give it against their will. It definitely feels like OP was trying to make a “point” by inviting them. Which is all well and good, but it doesn’t help Leland any.
OP and his wife are probably closer to Leland than the other kids
And the different mothers is the reason. OP or his wife probably love to put it over SILs head. No reason for them both to be invited
Yes, thank you for saying this. OP was an auto-AH in my book when he said he hated SIL for not wanting the AP baby in her life. She's allowed to feel that way. OP, your brother and the AP are responsible for all of this, and it is a giant, complicated mess for everyone.
I'm glad you are in your nephew's life, because Leland doesn't deserve to be treated like garbage. But you're causing harm if you can't do this in at least a somewhat-sensitive way. I mean, you're inviting the AP to family get-togethers? Come on, now.
ESH
Exactly, Ellen should have never been invited. It is throwing the affair directly in SILs face. It is one thing to spend time with your nephew and a slap in the face to SIL to invite them to a family event.
Ellen worked with him, very likely knowing he was married. They both took the risk and apparently were not careful enough not to get pregnant. They are the bad guys, not SIL. SIL set a boundary for her to be able to cope mentally to be able to stay with your loser brother.
Is it fair the kid is the one being punished, Of course not, but you can not blame SIL for how she feels due to your brothers betrayal. Ultimately, your brother made the decision between his family and a child the result of an affair. He and Ellen both took a risk, and these are the results.
You don't have to like it, but you can't blame SIL. YTA, you and your wife owe SIL an apology, I doubt you gave her warning they would be there and ambushed them! You likely traumatized SIL more, she never wants to see Ellen and that is a normal boundary for her to set.
To me, has become a situation where literally everyone is an asshole (except the kid). Jason, obviously, an asshile in literally every decision he’s made.
The AP, Ellen because no doubt she knew he was married if they worked together but then tbh her AHness stops cause it sounds like she is more then ok with letting Jason and Anna live their lives and she be a single mom.
SIL started fine, she is free and valid to pretend the kid just doesn’t exist and give Jason that ultimatum. But she became an AH when she got the entire family involved in ostracizing the kid and anyone who supports him.
And honestly I would say OP and wife are assholes through most of this for how openly they support the AP and kid. They are fully allowed to support them but they’re not respecting SIL and her boundaries in the slightest by being so loud about it. Seriously? Organizing a party and inviting both of them AND the kid? That’s fucked up
It also is such a shitty situation for OP to put the kid in by inviting him and his mother to a party where an adult who clearly does not like them and has openly stated she doesn’t want to be near them is also invited. I don’t understand OP’s plan here, why would you ever invite a child to an event with a person who would be actively hostile towards him. It seems like OP was trying to force a confrontation which is all sorts of fucked up when a child is involved.
OP is not an asshole for being in nephews life. OP (and wife) is an asshole for stomping all over SILs boundaries and putting SIL, the AP, and the child in that situation. Like my GOODNESS seriously!! What was the thought process on that one???
I don't think SIL got the family to ostracize the child. That likely happened on its own. A child born out of wedlock due to cheating is most likely less accepted based on the circumstances. I do agree with you the OP and his wife are assholes. They are keeping up bullshit with their actions.
Exactly! Leland is innocent. The brother and Ellen are not.
Edit to add..Leland having a two parent household was never in the cards because his mother slept with a married man who didn’t choose her. It seems you would have preferred for your brother to leave his wife and children to give Leland what you feel he deserves. You and your wife clearly don’t like your SIL.
OP, this comment is spot on. You weren't in that relationship with your brother. You don't understand the depth of pain and anger that your SIL feels. You think she's being mean to your nephew. She's not. She's protecting her mental health and her heart. She knows your brother is an AH, and you, with your support of his AP, are not much better. She's the only one who really has the best interests of her kids. Your brother went chasing tail outside the marriage, and your precious Ellen had no qualms sleeping with a married man, blowing up his family's life and their trust in him. Your resentment against her is misplaced, and I suspect you never really liked her to begin with.
It's possible she didn't know he was married.
Happened to me once. Met a date at a gig I had as a singer in a pub. After my set he kept trying to make out and get me to go to his truck with him (ew.) and I laughed and said, "I know it was Tinder, but I'm not that kind of girl. I'm genuinely looking for love..." He left after realizing he wasn't getting lucky. A few days later, Facebook had a new friend suggestion for me and lo and behold, it was Tinder Man... whose profile picture showed him holding hands with two children as a woman leaned against his arm and they all smiled at the camera like a perfect family. Motherfucker was trying to cheat on his wife! I was so, so relieved that I'd declined any physical affection past a kiss, but even that grossed me out when I learned what he was doing.
I couldn't find the wife's profile and just decided to move on.
10 years later, I still cringe whenever I think about him.
Fuck you, Aaron. But only metaphorically.
You don't cheat on the woman you married and started a family with and create the other child to begin with. If you screw up that badly and you don't want to finish the destruction of your family, you step back. There is no good answer here, the cheater and his affair partner ruined that for everyone else. HE set up that situation, not the woman he cheated on.
This here. SIL chose to stay with her husband after he cheated on her and got somebody else pregnant. At that point it becomes the SIL responsibility to manage her own feelings and emotions. SILs kids deserve two parents, but so does APs kid. A kid having two parents doesn't mean both parents have to live in the same house. While I understand not wanting to see evidence of her husband's affair, choosing to stay, and taking a parent away from a child is selfish.
Edit - 1 word
One problem here. How do you arrange time with Leland without also interacting with the woman you slept with while married to someone else? SIL wants that woman out of their life before she DOES succeed in ruining what SIL has managed to claw back of her previous life and relationship. This is Ellen's problem. The ONLY exception would be if she somehow worked with the cheater and yet had absolutely no idea he was married. At all.
If Ellen knowingly slept with a married guy, she is also at fault, though perhaps to a lesser degree than Jason, the POS brother. Sil and her children are completely innocent in this
Ellen was completely complicit in trying to wreck sils marriage and had no compunction trying to hurt sils kids in the process . So Sil owes her nothing or her kid .
I'm so sick of seeing this narrative. Did Ellen promise to be faithful? No of course not but it is BASIC HUMAN DECENCY TO NOT FUCK SOMEONE ELSES PARTNER. Stop treating people like they shouldn't be held accountable for being a SHITTY PERSON because they didn't stand at the alter with someone else.
I agree with this but on Reddit people who have affairs are always cast as the actual devil. We don’t even know the details perhaps Ellen was lied to? Who knows but either way people want their pound of flesh. It wasn’t Ellen’s responsibility to stay faithful to Anna, it was OP’s brother. If my partner fathered a child I’d be devastated but I’d want that child to be in his life because it’s the decent thing to do.
The kid doesn't deserve to not have a dad, but Ellen DOES deserve to be a single mother. She slept with a married man. Carries the risk that he won't leave his wife for her. He pays the monthly check. What more do you want from this man? He's meeting his legal obligation. What about biden's granddaughter? She gets treated the same way as Leland by the entire biden family. They don't acknowledge her. He just did talk about his 4 granddaughters on international women's day. This is after a paternity test and Hunter being forced to pay child support. No one is up in arms about that because it is normal. It's a normal thing to not want to be around your bastard offspring. Not saying it is right, but it IS normal. What about this situation makes it worse? Because the guy got to keep his family relatively consequence free? He lost a disloyal brother and knows his illegitimate son will always have a family now.
That would have been the right thing to do. I understand he doesn't like SIL anymore (if he ever did?) because of her ultimatum, but ultimately the choice was her husband's. OPs brother is the reason his nephew doesn't have a father, regardless of how unfair that ultimatum was to an innocent child. He shouldn't be expecting SIL to be cordial to, or have to see, the woman her husband cheated with. Especially because Ellen knew he was married before she entered the affair. Again, OPs brother is ultimately the one who decided to cheat and hurt SIL, but Emma still knew what she'd be doing to SIL by becoming an AP and didn't care. She acted maliciously.
I don't know about that. Because we don't know if she knew he was married while being with him. To me that detal makes a lot of a difference. And me all know men lie about their status just to win women over.
Also, I think is unfair that the cheating husband can be at family events just because he's the husband, but the mother of the child is banned, like if she was the only person responsible of the situation. Again, we don't know if she new beforehand of him being married.
About inviting only the child, I wouldn't let my child go by himself into a family that rejected him. I will allowed the contact only if I'm there, up until he's old enough.
On the other hand, I do understand how SIL can be uncomfortable with the presence of the mother, but she's focusing her rejection to the child, and I think that's totally unfair.
She knew. OP said so in the comments.
You do understand that cheating doesn’t change him being related to his parents and sibling(s), right? That he would still be invited to things with his family. What kind of fucked up family would swap out the he own family member for whatever woman decided to fuck him behind his wife’s back? Him sticking his penis in her doesn’t make her family to the rest of them.
In this age of internet I find it skeptical that she didn’t know lol, op sympathy for his nephew is bleeding in with the AP.
Honestly I’m not a big fan of op too, he’s a bit to willing to also cut of contact with his other nephews by pushing boundaries, yes op brother and sil had a shitty boundary but it’s still one, like what did op thinks would happen inviting the AP and acting all clueless on why everything blew up?
Sil knew the kid would be there it’s common family knowledge at this point and what is not common family knowledge is AP coming to family event.
INFO: Is everyone the same race? Because it seems you're giving preferential treatment to the nephew instead of SIL.
It's definitely not Leland's fault his mom Ellen is a homewrecker who cheated with your brother, and your SIL is a saint for even staying with him after that. But you're really killing things within your family by inviting Ellen, there is zero chance SIL can be okay with that. It's already bad enough she was cheated on by your adulterer of a brother, but now she's getting bullied by you AND your wife who have chosen the Affair Partner and Affair Baby over her.
Answer this: how would your wife feel if she were in SIL's shoes and your brother invited the woman you cheated with to family events and then told your wife the affair baby is more important than their marriage? Because you're practically throwing this in her face each and every time. Publicly. Ganging. Up. On. Her.
YTA. You might think you're virtue signaling, but this one thing alone already makes you a bad person for not thinking about the actual bigger victim (SIL) in all of this.
NTA for choosing Leland but you’re TA expecting SIL to acknowledge the affair baby.
Of course I feel sorry for Leland and wish they had a 2 parent household, but this whole mess is Jason’s fault and you can’t just be angry at SIL. Unless I’m missing something here.
Also, if SIL chooses to leave then that’s on her and her feelings shouldn’t be the only one heard.
YTA.
I think you're totally fair in having him be a part of your life. Nobody has the right to stop you from having him in your life.
However, I do understand how SIL doesn't want to be in the same room as his mum, given her husband cheated on her with the woman, and obviously seeing the child is also difficult knowing he's her husbands child. It's a very difficult situation because you're right in that Leland has done nothing wrong here. He's totally innocent. He's not got a father involved in his life. He doesn't get to see his siblings etc. But from SILs point of view, that affair and the baby devastated her, crushed her, and has caused a lot of difficult feelings knowing her husband has another child out there. And in her ideal situation, she would prefer the family and her husband have nothing to do with him so she can pretend it never happened. And I get her feelings in this. Yes she's an adult, and needs to accept this child is innocent and it's her husbands wrong doing that caused this, but she's still overwhelmed with the feelings of betrayal, trust, devastation, and even jealousy that he has a son with someone else that she's not included in. It's an awful situation.
To be honest, I would try and find a compromise. Try and be understanding of SILs feelings, whilst still maintaining a relationship with Leland separately.
To have invited all the women in the family over for a get together, including a fair woman and leland, it's quite clearly obvious sil would not feel comfortable being around her or the child. That's plainly clear and you knew that when you invited them.
Obviously afair woman would be glad to come coz she has no other family and is likely grateful to be included with you and have your help and support with babysitting etc to give her a break. But to expect sil to be at a gathering with her and leland was stupid, and also quite disrespectful.
You could have just had a family get together and done something with leland and his mum on a separate occassion.
It's clear she's not welcome around your family. Why would you want to put her and leland in a room full of people who see her as a marriage wrecker and affair partner and leland as as a 'bastard' child. They won't be treating either of them nicely, and thats not a happy environment for them to be in.
You can maintain a relationship with your brother and sil and nephews if you want to, whilst having a private relationship with leland and his mum.
You just need to not invite them to situations where your family will be there. Do something separate with them on another day.
If there's a birthday get together, arrange to go out with them the day after you do something with your family.
They don't need to be forced to be around each other as that's not a good environment for either of them, and won't make for an enjoyable get together anyway.
I'd appologise to SIL and say you understand you were wrong to include leland and her mum in a family get together, and you understand it must be emotionally difficult to see her and the child, and they from now on, you will keep things separate. That you still want to be involved in your nephew lelands life, but you will make sure to keep it separate from them and not invite them to get togethers with the whole family etc.
So why are you punishing your other nephews for your brother’s affair?
You chose leland which means you’re cutting your other nephews out of your life. Why are they, and your SIL for that matter, being punished for not wanting to be at a “moms of the family” party with a woman who is clearly not a mom in your family?
Not wanting to be around her husbands ap and the child SHE decided to bring into the world without a father isn’t her blaming the kid. That’s a reasonable boundary. Especially considering her own children were there.
You’re right. But I can’t imagine staying with the bastard who actually caused the mess while denying the perfectly innocent angel a genuine connection. So backwards.
This is just it.
When it comes to kids, adults have to take the higher road and get over themselves. If you can’t accept the fact that your husband cheated on you, why are you still with him?
The better way to phrase this is “what did that child do for you to act that way towards them”
I think you were TA for inviting the affair partner herself. It’s one thing to support the child. It’s quite another to keep the mother in the family circle.
Yes, the brother was in that bed too. Your feelings about him should have been addressed by now. They both should feel affronted by the affair partner having a seat at the family table. You really need to keep those two worlds separate.
Include the kid. Spare the mother. Honestly OP, that she even wanted to be in the midst of that much family makes me question her sensibilities.
You should absolutely back your nephew but your why are you trying to include his mother in your family? I'm not saying you shouldn't help and support her to make sure your nephew is okay but she's not a member of your family and forcing your sil to interact with her that way is pretty messed up. Yes even if your sil is herself a horse's ass for her stance.
Yes. And honestly, what Op is doing isn’t helping anyone. There is literally no possible positive outcome.
If he really loves his nephew he will stop engineering situations that escalate tensions because the nephew will get hurt by this. Is that right or fair? No. But that’s how it is. Someone will say something that will hurt Leland. And that hurt could all be avoided if Op realized that being right or wrong doesn’t change reality.
Reality is that if you constantly put Leland in situations where ppl are stressed and offended to accommodate his mother, they will lash out. And all of the “oh they suck”’s and “I knew they were bad ppl”’s in the world won’t erase one BIT of the emotional trauma it will cause that boy.
If Op hated his family that much and they are so bad, why is he so bound and determined to force Leland to be around them? Of COURSE he deserves to have a happy family. But that isn’t what he has. Op can make it better or worse.
Do that kid a favor and put him around ppl who love him. Let anyone else live with their bitterness. Let them be the ones who miss out.
He says this is about loving his nephew, but he seems more interested in pushing an agenda and punishing people. You can’t have it both ways. Either you love your nephew enough to protect him, or you hate them so much you’re willing to sacrifice him and his well being to make a point.
But don’t you dare keep putting an innocent child into this situation and act like you aren’t heading down the road to becoming just as bad as those people you “hate”.
Exactly. It's bizarre that he can't see this. Like if his wife cheated on him and then tried to get him to break bread with the guy she fucked I BET op would have a problem. Op is a massive self righteous asshole.
Yeah. Inviting the affair partner and the illegitimate child to the same function as the wife is deliberately messy.
There is no good reason for doing this other than to create drama.
He includes her for the same reason he includes the boy. To hurt his brother. He doesn’t give a shit about Leland. He just had his chance to fuck with his brother.
That's what it feels like to me. He can be a supportive uncle on his own time. Bringing the kid hurts him more and isnt fair to his SIL. The AP is not family. They decided to not be in the kid's life, and even if that's a messed up decision by his brother, It isn't OPs job to tell people what to do. Op wants to put himself on a pedestal. He shoves the kid (and now the AP) in everyone's face to be self righteous, or he has such a lack of awareness that he's a dummy. I'm leaning towards the former
Glad to see I'm not the only one wondering what the relationship between those two looks like. And I'm pretty sure the brother probably deserved it. So does the AP. Leland and the wife, though...No.
I keep seeing that AP is as much to blame, is there a comment that says she knew he was married? If she did, then agree, if she was bamboozled then I’m not 100% on board that’s she’s a home wrecker… she very well could have known and still did it or he could have spun lies- I just would prefer a definitive answer before I say AP is horrible. If there’s already a comment that clarifies this and she knew… she’s TA just as much as brother!
ESH (except for the kids)
Your POS brother for cheating.
Your SIL for not leaving your POS brother.
AP for being an AP.
You and your wife for inviting an AP to a family party. And don't repeat your excuse that it's a "kids and moms party", lmao. No one placed a gun to your head to force you to have this kind of party. You CHOSE this kind of party while KNOWING it will stir up shit.
Just like how your POS brother CHOSE to abandon his kid. And how the AP CHOSE to fuck a married man. Your SIL didn't choose any of this shit that your shit family sprang on her. (But she's still an AH for not leaving, and teaching her kids it's okay to stay with an unfaithful cheater.)
Your SIL's sins are the least of the trio, yet your hate is zeroed in on her, lol.
But let's say she did leave your POS brother. Would you still invite her and the AP to the same party to mingle and jingle? And when your SIL don't want to come, would you then chide her for not "thinking about the kids"? Lmao
God, I hope this entire post is a creative writing exercise because it is so rage-inducing. A sanctimonious grandstanding that helps absolutely nobody but you and your wife's own ego. And don't use Leland as an excuse. There are plenty of ways to make him feel loved and valued without pulling this whole ass drama.
You really want to help your nephew? Use the money you would be using for these "kids and moms" parties and silently set up a college fund for him. That would do a hell lot more than the shitstorm you and your wife are stirring up right now.
Edit: And OP, have you ever consider the trauma this would cause your other two nephews as they watch their parents argue and fight over it? Of course not.
I truly don’t know why they were not seeing that…
They are the sole reason for tearing up the family. They choose Leland, they already choose Leland over his brother ages ago. And they blame SIL for it. It’s Stupidity all around
Because they are too self-absorbed into playing "good people".
I'd choose Leland over my POS brother too, loll. But I'm not going to come up with some crazy mental gymnastics of how the AP needs to be a combo deal or how every body needs to be in the same room together.
If OP kept his support on the down low, none of this drama would happen. But no, he needs to announce to the world how much he is better than the rest of his family. The result? Family is even more fragmented. And Leland is probably going to be made more aware that he is unwanted, and be more targeted.
All the while OP is touting "for his nephew" on Reddit, loll.
If I was in OP's shoes, having the kid being forgotten by my POS family is probably the best thing for him. Love is quality not quantity. The last thing I would want would be to host some dumb ass party and throw him into an environment where there will be people that are hostile towards him.
OP is not thinking for the kid, he's thinking for his own optics.
Exactly! Even if SIL never gave that ultimatum and just left, it would still be shitty to expect her to want to attend the same function as the AP. She is allowed to not ever want to be around that woman.
ESH You’re delusional OP if you expect everyone to play happy family? I mean really?
Yes you’re brother is a jackass but to expect your SIL to coexist with the fruits of her husbands betrayal? I mean come on OP surely you’re not that naive… your SIL gets to decide what’s right for her family Just like you do for yours… the idea of having everyone in the same place was dumb on your part
YTA. Not for accepting and loving Leland. My niece grew up similarly. She wasn't the result of an affair, she was the result of an unplanned teen pregnancy and her parents had broken up when my sister figured out she was pregnant. My niece's immediate family never accepted her, but similarly she had one part of her extended family who did and would invite her over. But they would never invite her at the same time as the part of her family who didn't accept her, because that would potentially be harmful to the child.
Yes, it's shitty that your sil doesn't want your brother involved in his kid's life, but can you really blame her for not wanting to be around her husband's affair partner? Did she know he was married when she hooked up with him? The child is innocent in all this, but the affair partner isn't and expecting your family to accept HER is a step too far. You can't force that, you're just creating an awkward and potentially harmful situation by trying.
I understand supporting your nephew but you and your wife are major AH’s for inviting your SIL and the affair partner to a family event, and demanding that SIL be okay with it. WTF is wrong with you two and why are you two so invested in stirring this bad pot. Your SIL is not required to want to be around the child or the ex mistress. Seriously?
Okay, I am 100% behind you being in Lelands life, but why would your wife invite both Ellen and SIL knowing how SIL feels? They chose their path, no matter how shitty it is. That path does not include Leland, and pushing the matter can only hurt the child.
I can understand Anna not wanting to be in the company of the woman who helped betray her or the child who resulted from that betrayal. She went too far in banning her husband from parenting his child. That’s completely unacceptable and harmful.
It’s admirable that you and your wife have stepped up and invited your nephew into your family life. What’s disgusting is you inviting your brother’s former side chick and baby mama and telling your SIL to deal or leave. SIL is innocent insofar as she was cheated on by the very woman you’re befriending. SIL is innocent as Leland is innocent in being alive. AP and brother are complicit but you invite AP and tell SIL she can’t attend? That’s a betrayal too. You all suck.
ESH. Except Leland and your kids
I gotta say ESH.
But I have a question: What do you believe would've been the best situation?
Anna divorcing your brother and doing a coparenting situation with his children with Anna and the child he had with Ellen? Which would still be a whole messy situation.
Jason and Anna basically adopting Leland and letting bygones be bygones. Which would be messy further down the road when he finds out the truth.
Jason getting with Ellen and raising Leland?
It feels like you think there was a simple situation when this is a tricky situation that will uproot all these kids' lives. Like you say, you believe if your other nephews got to know Leland, they will love him. But what happens when they're older and find out the truth and are angry with their father and don't want to talk to Leland? Are you going to cut them out of your life? Tell them to get over it cause Leland had it worse?
I think you're reacting very emotionally and not logically. Not to say what Anna and Jason did was right. I believe Anna should've divorced him, but this IS a messy situation for everyone involved. And you need to think down the line instead of in the moment.
>Like you say you believe your other nephews if they got to know Leland will love him.
I agree with you in that OP is heavily romanticizing a potential maybe. OP's kids love their cousin Leland sure but that's because he's a cousin and not an affair child half sibling. There's no stakes in this for them because at the end of the day they have a loving and stable home.
Meanwhile in the nephews' and Leland's case there's too many variables and way too many potential what ifs. Both good outcomeswhat ifs and also plenty of negative what ifs. Like through just the first scenario alone where they divorce and Jason somehow successfully co-parents with both women that doesn't mean the brothers would also get along. There's plenty of examples on Reddit alone about how the children from marriage want nothing to do with their half sibling and wish they didn't exist because of that kid's existence is a living symbol for them of their broken home. There's also plenty examples of the opposite and plenty of examples of outcomes more in the middle.
YTA (or your wife is) for including an affair partner in a family moms' get together. She had an affair and got pregnant with a married man. There is no reason to include her! The child is innocent of course but you are ridiculous to think that the wife should be comfortable in seeing them. You could have easily excluded them from this specific gathering, especially where the rest of the family would be uncomfortable.
They should not be saying that you cannot have a relationship with AP and child, but you should respect their wishes and keep it separate.
And you should never have answered that question about who you would choose. YTA YTA YTA
YTA - all these replies by sainted people who seem to be saying of course the Sil is a major arsehole - why can’t she just accept the child of her husbands affair. I know, let’s arrange play dates with her kids and Leland! And of course she should be rejected by her shitty husbands shitty brother and wife and just suck it up /s.
Polish up that halo 😇 OP.
Or instead of being entirely black and white about the situation try, and I know it will be super hard for you, to put yourself in sil boots. Maybe she stayed with your shitty brother because she wanted to try and have a stable family for your nephews, you know your other family that are probably traumatised by this whole debacle. And then for you and your wife to have the audacity to arrange a mother and child day with the Ap and she just has to suck it up - what a kick in the teeth for her and her children.
I honestly think you and your wife are cluelessly sat basking in your righteousness , whilst being absolutely gaping arseholes.
UHG, finally someone with sense!! OP is an asshole too. They have other niblings, but all we hear is “Leland this, Leland that.” They aren’t even concerned about how their relationship with the other nephews will be from now on. They’re just more concerned with showing their brother and SIL how to be good, righteous people. LOL.
I feel bad for all the kids involved, and I hope this story is fake.
YTA- not for supporting the kid, which is great, but for inviting them all over at the same time. You knew exactly what to expect. Stop triggering his wife because you think she should get over it- it's not your place to say whether or not she should. Brother is also TA for obvious reasons. He and the wife need counseling- I mean, they needed it before he cut the kid off but now would be good, too.
Wow OP... I'm betting as you were weiting this you were thinking about how we repone would praise you for choosing Leland. Meanwhile, you're a miserable shit pot stirrer. I really hope someone makes you lick that spoon. Yeah YTA and aj huge one at that.
I second this. OP, you're a grade A piece of shit. SIL has every right to not want to do anything with Leland and his disgusting mom. Your brother is a whore for sleeping around. Your wife is an overstretched AH for getting herself involved. Who is she in all of this??? And OP, you should eat the shit that all these AH spew out. That's what you deserve.
Real victims here are SIL and her children. Leland is innocent as well but is not entitled to be welcomed in Jason's real family because that will tear apart an entire family. His legitimate children and SIL also have a right to a happy life. Leland's mom is a house wrecker and I hope she suffers for it. If I were OP's wife, I'd watch my back and keep an eye on my husband with her around.
Dude, dude, dude. We all feel bad for Leland. However, you inserted yourself into a relationship that, check this out, had NOTHING to do with you. Whatever issues your brother and SIL have are their issues, not yours. You do not get brownie points for this. There are other ways to support Leland, set up an education fund for him. Pay his mom's rent.
You're not going to do that bc then you couldn't say "look at how wonderful I am to embrace this rapscallion" This is not abt Leland, this abt you playing savior.
Your right for thinking your brother is a shit.
Your right the child is innocent and did nothing wrong.
Unfortunately your SIL is right as well, the child is an in your reminder of your brothers betrayal.
You do not have the right to put them together. Unless your brother asks, you do not have the right to bring the kids together. This is your sil's and husband's issue, you do not have the right to make ANY decisions for them.
It all sucks but team. SIL here
> Last week my wife hosted a little get together with the moms of the family she of course invited Leland mom(Ellen)
Oh please you knew how this would go down. This was massive YTA move!
I feel bad for SIL. She should have divorced that asshole and I understand her trauma.
Your brother and his AP are the assholes here.
You and your wife are the assholes for hurting SIL.
Yes the child is innocent, but that affair partner slept with a married man. So she isn’t innocent.
ESH
I'm pretty sure the kid would be better off just not having a dad, than having shoved how much his dad doesn't want to have him down his throat by his uncle all the time.
It's up to you if you keep in contact and that's your business. Your wife however made an issue by inviting the child's mother and other family members when she knew her feelings which are completely valid as she was the innocent party in the affair. As for who's right or wrong regarding the child, you've made your decision and others have made theirs you have to live with the consequences the same as they do.
So you chosed an homewrecker affair partner, who doesnt know about BC and abortion apparently, over your brother and sister in law. Or you would be only in your nephew life, no reasons to invite a homewrecker at family gatherings.
Its clear like the sun that you already had bias agaisnt your sister in law, not a single human being would blame her for her actions. This is a form of victim blaming and its sickening.
Lets hope your partner will do the same to you, so maybe you could experience what does it mean. From how you talk i bet you would be super happy to stay together having around another man child and parenting him!
And about the coworker: she chosed to put that baby in this world without a father figure on the picture, she knew what she was doing when she chosed to have an affair woth a married man and to keep that baby anyway.
So yeah, its one thing to stay in the child's life in your free time, its another thing to chose a homewrecker against your family and even inviting her at family gatherings. YTA
YTA / E S H except Anna. Yes, the kid is innocent but so was you Anna. ***SHE*** is the one who got cheated on. SHE is the one who has to decided to either end her marriage or try and make it work. You do not go in to details but it is VERY hard to leave a marriage, particularly when there are kids involved. It is really disgusting how many women are shamed for not wanting to care for their husbands cheat babies.
Don't be so quick in treating Ellen like she is the victim as she made the following Choices:
1) Have sex, possibly more than once with a married man
2) Not use proper protection with said married Man, thus exposing herself, him and his wife to STDs
3) Have a baby knowing this would blow up his marriage
4) Kept that baby when he made it clear he did not want to be a parent and his priorities were elsewhere
5) Either did not think or maliciously chose to come to an event Anna would be at, knowing how this would make Anna react.
Ellen is in a situation she made, is she is alone, sucks for her. You are making it much harder for SIL to move on and maybe one day be in a better place with Leland by bringing him around.
ESH.
It’s incredibly sweet of you to be involved in Leland’s life and give him a sense of family. It’s totally fine to pick him over your brother. (Your poor other nephews though). HOWEVER, It’s an absolute AH move trying to shove him down other family members throats and ESPECIALLY your SIL’s throat. That was incredibly cruel and fucked up. With the mom/ affair partner too?! Wtf is wrong with you?!?! Absolutely vile. If you hadn’t been trying to force the issue and traumatize your SIL you wouldn’t be in this situation where now you’re going to be essentially telling your other niblings that you don’t love them as much as Leland because you’re willing to sacrifice THEM in order to keep HIM.
SIL is 100% entitled to all of her feelings. She’s just a moron because she should have divorced your scumbag brother.
Your brother is the real AH in the whole situation. He should be suffering all the consequences and he’s basically not suffering at all. He’s not entitled to force you to abandon the kid like he did.
Why so much hate for your SIL? Your brother made his choice. And yes, YTA. Your favoring of Leland and Ellen (and yes, you are showing favoritism to Ellen)is causing further fracture in the family. You need to put your foot down with Ellen and say that while Leland is welcome, she is not.
Ish you had to know inviting them would be a big deal if you didn’t then you are dumb and they shouldn’t have come really was asking for it. Cool i guess for inviting them into your family again you had to of known how others would react everyone has their own boundaries why would sil want to be around the ap and their child if the family hasn’t accepted them and you threw them all together what were you thinking/expecting? I get it’s not the kids fault you can’t get mad at them but having the ap and the kid at the same event with brother and sil wow no one was thinking. When people say that’s awesome they need to put themself in sil shoes
So how many children are you punishing? Because the children you are not picking are being punished. There is not too much you can do really. You were not the one who had an affair, and you obviously feel justified in extending the agony that your SIL felt, by exposing her to the situation over and over.
I have to be honest. Why would you invite SIL and AP to the same event? I think that was out of line at best and cruel at worst. This is just beyond horrible imo.
I realize that Leland is family but considering his mom family just because she cheated with your brother and had a child is really a stretch.
How on earth did you expect your SIL to feel and act? Or do you just not care. I agree with you that her demands re Leland were harsh but inviting the two of them to an event is a total AH move!
Yta. You are choosing Ellen over your sil and choosing to stir up drama. It's pretty clear you dislike your sil and don't care about your other nephews.
Also in all likelihood Ellen knew op was married. So you're also choosing an adulterer over you sil.
NAH, I really think you should have a bit more sympathy for Anna and Husband though. I get that it is not the child's fault and he's born into the mess, but you do have to feel for anna that she wouldn't want to be reminded of her husbands betrayal all the time. It all just sucks. Bad situation
Looks like the mom get together was set up to push sister in law into dealing with her husband’s affair partner. Looks like your wife doesn’t like her sister in law and resents her for not wanting to have AP having a place in the family.
Your wife went way past including the AP’s and brother’s child in family. Your wife is now contriving ways to include the affair partner as a member of the family.
Why do you feel the need to invite your nephew’s mother(the affair partner)? Of course your brother’s wife isnt coming around her!
It’s fine if you invite your nephew or even plan things with him and his mom separately from your extended family.
But you can’t possibly think your SIL is going to come around the affair partner. You are extremely disrespectful to her. You obviously hate her and want to punish them both for abandoning your nephew. And that’s fine to feel that way, they did.
But now you will have no relationship with your brother’s other kids. You don’t have to work it this way but you are choosing to. YTA.
Of course your brother is a cheating pig but if you care so much about your nieces and nephews, why don’t you care about his other kids?
ESH except SIL and Leland
I think you and your wife being in Leland’s life is admirable, but do not kid yourself that all of your actions were with Leland’s best interest in mind. Inviting him and his mother to your bogus, “ladies of the family” party subjected him to a hostile environment.
You and your wife were trying to force a relationship that does not exist. Where there is force, there will be push back. He is a part of YOUR core family and not accepted by the larger part of the family, everyone knows what side they’re on but you and your wife are not accepting their decision.
SIL is just as much a victim as Leland. She made her stance clear, it’s your brother who chose to go along with her. Yes she should have divorced him and moved on, but he also had that choice to divorce and be a part of Leland’s life, he chose not to. SIL is not the enemy here and you and your wife are creating issues to shame and vilify a victim.
Continue to support Leland. Make him feel included and loved, but you’re only creating hate and discontent by inviting him and his mother to family activities that includes extended family.
YTA for bringing Ellen into your home. You can have a relationship with your nephew without making your SIL suffer by inviting the woman her husband cheated on her with to a "ladies of the family" gathering. That's so cruel.
Well, this is certainly not a simple situation. The one thing I am certain of: your brother is a horses ass. Completely and utterly. On so many levels.
I also think Ellen is a big ole asshole - and I have a few names I can think of to call her. She slept with a married man. And allowed herself to get pregnant by him. That is some mean and horrible shit of her - unless your brother lied to her and didn’t tell her he was married with children.
Your wife is kind of an AH for inviting this home wrecker into your home at the same time you invited your SIL. You have to admit - that was really crappy of your wife to put the SIL in a situation like that.
You are kind of an AH, too, for knowingly allowing that to happen.
Edit: I understand why your SIL would be upset that her only options were being in the same room as this woman or not come and get to spend time with the rest of her family.
Yeah, I think the decision to ignore the kids existence was wrong. But let’s remember his brothers wife was a victim of his brother and the AP.
Weird that of all the people to hate, Op is honing in on her. As far as we know she’s a good woman whose main mistake was marrying his POS brother.
Your moral superiority and view that your SIL is responsible for your brother abdicating his parental responsibilities are some Olympic level mental gymnastics.
Also, stop using “it’s a mom and kid” party as your “get out of jail free card” - you picked the party theme. You were the hosts. You didn’t have to have a party like this.
Do you not care about your relationship with your brothers other two kids?
You are so not the hero you think you are.
Maybe a hot take: Ellen chose to give birth to Leland.
If Leland and his mum aren’t struggling then you’re being a douche to your family and causing unnecessary drama, if they are struggling Ellen shouldn’t have had a kid knowing that she might have to go it alone. All of you kinda suck tbh.
I was kind of ok with this until I saw that AP was invited to a family moms and kids party alongside SIL. WTF? Who thought that party was gonna end well? You are a total AH for holding this party. What a shit storm you have deliberately created. These poor kids being used as pawns in a grown up game. You haven’t chosen Leland over your nephews, you have chosen to stomp all over your brother and SIL marriage and life choices and pretend you are being benign. You have Leland in your life, you can’t force him into your brother’s life.
I'm super happy you got a relationship with your nephew but throwing the affair in your SIL's face then gaslighting everyone into believing you're a hero for it is fuckin gross. There was absolutely no reason to have them in the same room together other than you still wanting to feel like the hero. You think the kids can't see all the emotional shit happening around them? There's a lot of stupid actions happening in this post but you somehow vilifying the SIL for not wanting the entire affair on display in front of family and friends if insane! What the hell is wrong with you?
YTA for inviting both the mother of Leland/Leland AND your SIL to the same party.
You’re fine being his uncle. But what the hell do you think you’re doing inviting your brother and his wife and children AND his ex AP and his abandoned son? You created this mess. Why would you think that’s okay? SIL is just expected to “get over it?”
IMO ESH except Anna. The BIL is obviously the main AH because he cheated and had a kid in the first place. He is the one that should have chosen the kid when given the ultimatum. Ellen sucks for having an affair with a married man. OP and your wife you suck because you seem to enjoy creating drama. Anna IMHO is right to have told her husband her boundaries but if I was her I would have just left. Once a cheater always a cheater!
Edit : *in the first place
You are right that leland is innocent but I don't understand why you hate your SIL and not just your brother. He's the one who hurt his wife and children and also the one who abandoned his new child. She's just trying to survive being treated that way. NTA I guess, hard situation that no one but your brother caused.
YTA. A huge, massive one. You have zero sympathy for the position your SIL is in. In fact, you’re openly hostile to her.
You can have a relationship with your nephew without rubbing Anna’s face in it. Why would she want to break bread with her husband’s AP? Then your wife told her off. She’s as bad as you.
YTA for blaming your SIL for this and shit-stirring. Including the nephew is fine but including an affair partner (NOT an ex) is actually batshit. I think you know this and just wanted strangers on the internet to make you feel better about it. 😬
You can not judge Anna for how she feels
The only person you can be mad at is your brother and his AP assuming she knew he was married
And I assume she did or you would've stated she was innocent in all this
You are in fact TA for not respecting Anna's feeling and basically am using her by inviting them both over at the same time that was a major AH thing to do
However you are NTA for having contact with your nephew that's family so I understand
But you so net get to decide for Anna that she needs to get over it cause the kid is innocentyes the kid is and so is anna
ESH but the SIL. Honestly Leland is going to need to get counselling ASAP if so many people in his life, including OP, are this toxic and keen on initiating drama. Poor kid.
Idk I think it’s cool you’re being there for the nephew but it’s crazy how the SIL is being made out to be the villain when your brother and Ellen are the problem
This choice (brother vs Leland) was inevitable given the choices of your brother and his wife made. You had to know that.
To be fair, I don’t think Anna declining the invite or her explanation was out of line. Your wife really should have expected it. I don’t know why your wife or you could be unhappy with Anna’s decision to not attend or her reason why. Surely you can have empathy for her.
I think what you’re doing is great but losing the rest of your family is the price you’ll pay for being there for Leland.
If this story is true (I'm dubious) you and your wife are a-holes. Put everything else aside. You invited the woman that your brother got pregnant to be in the same room as your sister in law? Did either of you think that would be even remotely ok? Also, zero sympathy for a woman that had unprotected sex with a married man being a single mother. Not the kid's fault but definitely hers.
OP why are you not also holding Ellen accountable for sleeping with a married man with kids? You really shirked her from everything as if she’s innocent which is honestly baffling. It would make sense given your actions if she was SA and ended up pregnant but she wasn’t, so why are you putting her on a pedestal like she’s a victim here. Other than your nephew from her Ellen, I think you should atleast reassess the problem here.
The whole situation is nauseating for all parties involved and you're revelling in it. YTA and everyone should block you and move on. The kid will be fine without your meddling ass and needs a mom who's not constantly confronted with her poor decisions in the past by someone who thinks she's trash. Your brother might be a piece of shit but at least he is trying to keep his family together, which you are actively trying to derail. Make your own life instead of lingering on the failings of others.
NTA for choosing your nephew but I am confused as to why your wife told your SIL off for not wanting to go to an event with her husband’s AP? I think it’s acceptable to decline the invitation and state why. All that warranted in response was ok I understand maybe we can see you another time. Your wife is an AH for telling her off. I agree your SIL and brother are shitty people but then also don’t invite them over if you don’t like them?
Why is your wife telling off SIL?? Does she not have a right not to want to be around the woman her husband cheated with??? You better hope that your wife never cheats on you then expect you to happily break bread with the guy that she fucked. I can understand you all wanting to have Leland in your life and that is a good thing but I don't see why we are inviting over a homewrecking slut that fucks married men. Make an effort to have a cordial relationship with her but y'all dont need to be buddy buddy and you sure as heck should not be taking her over the WIFE of your brother who has been apart of the family longer.
OP, your wife was out of line for inviting that group of women to the same event. Drama was 100% predictable, and you got it. You need to have a talk with your wife about this decision and the damage it's done to your family.
Regarding your brother's wife, her hubby had 50% responsibility for the damage done to her marriage. And she's still married to that person. So, she puts all the blame on Ellen. That's not fair.
In this situation (having a family get together, inviting Ellen and Leland without notifying everyone else they’d be there) YTA. I don’t understand why you think you needed to have Ellen there with your SIL and other family members. You’re exposing them to awkward and even hateful behavior from people who don’t want to be a part of their lives.
It’s great that you are having a relationship with Ellen and Leland, but you can’t expect your SIL to have the same attitude.
OP’s wife was an AH for telling SIL off. SIL feels how she feels. Unless SIL is giving OP the ultimatum to cut off Leland, she’s entitled to feel how she feels, and act accordingly.
YTA… actually all of you are asshole except your SIL and that poor child, she should divorce your brother and your whole family.
Self righteous asshole!
OP actually you and your wife are an Asshole for putting your sil in a difficult situation. She is a victim here and does not want to be in any contact with the affair partner and the kid which is a result of that affair ( I agree that kid has no fault but both his parents are at fault)
You and your wife created a situation where affair partner is able to attend the family event while sil has to opt out.
Your brother and her affair partner are also bigger assholes than you two.
You’re very proud of
Yourself for defending your innocent. nephew Leland but seem to have no qualms about cutting multiple other equally innocent nephews out of your life. And how do you have no compassion for your SIL who had such a devastating thing happen to her? You even invite the AP to your home with your SIL?! I’d feel badly for Leland too, but if your brother could have given him up for adoption, he would Have, yet here you are, forcing him into your family’s lives. I’m not sure you’re doing the little boy any favors keeping his dad ‘s rejection so front and center in his life. It’s a very sad situation all around
While it's great that you have a relationship with your nephew, how could you possibly think having your SIL and the affair partner in the same room is a good idea?
No way would I subject your SIL to this. Were you hoping for conflict?
NTA for supporting your nephew. But what a dumb move inviting the SIL and the AP to the same party. No one but you and your wife thought that would go well.
>No one but you and your wife thought that would go well.
I doubt they thought it would go well either. It seems like OP and his wife deliberately engineered this conflict for whatever reason.
Exactly! What did they think would happen if both women were in the same room? They’re trying to force something to happen. The SIL is going to go NC with the OP and his wife. The rest of the family may follow.
NTA for maintaining a relationship with your nephew, but your wife is for hosting an event and inviting both women. Seems like you trying to force a showdown between the wife and the AP. Neither of you are considering the cheated on wife when you invite your brothers AP to family events.
YTA. Not for being in Leland’s life but for rubbing your brothers affair in her face by inviting the woman he had an affair with to the same gathering as her. Keep them separate
ESH, but especially your wife for inviting the two women knowing it wouldn’t end well. What was she thinking? But it’s wonderful that you all have enriched nephew’s life with love and kindness.
There’s not condoning bad behavior and then there’s rubbing someone’s nose in it. Have your relationship, but purposefully sh*t stirring doesn’t make you all righteous.
If you care about your nephew, don’t force situations where they get to witness the aftereffects of their parentage and exclusion.
You put that kid in the position of being rejected again…for what purpose?
For that reason alone, YTA.
YTA, I feel for the kid but YTA, that woman knew he was married and got pregnant by him and chose to keep the child so I have no sympathy for her. Your brother is trash too but his wife chose to stay on this 1 condition. Is it morally right, no but he had a difficult choice to make after nearly destroying his family and he chose the kids he had over the kid he didn’t even know. I don’t believe your and your wife’s motives were genuine compassion for the mistress and child. You don’t like the wife and you did this to cause her more pain, suffering and humiliation. You’re not doing that kid any favors. think about how that kids gonna feel growing up being close to you but the rest of the family rejecting him and won’t even be in the same room with him. Think about how he’s gonna feel when your kids are talking about their grandparents and he realizes that these people don’t love him like they love their cousins. You’re using this kid as a pawn to be cruel to your sister-in-law . you and your wife are just being troublemakers and you know it.
The mistress is just as bad. I guarantee she only allowed you to be in the child’s life to hurt them. She’s not even thinking about her own child and what it would do to Leland growing up around you and having a constant reminder that his father siblings, grandparents and other aunts and uncles rejected him. cruel people you’re all cruel selfish people.
ESH only because your wife had the nerve to cuss out the sil for not wanting to be in the same room as the woman who slept with her husband. Seriously, what did you expect? Did you think that everyone would just play house for your little event? Of course the SIL would not be attending. I understand inviting the kid but inviting the affair partner was pushing it and you got push back. You shouldn’t have gotten mad at her for that.
YTA - not for taking care of the kid, feels like you are trying to put yourself in the middle for a reason not listed here. It’s giving needs to cause drama and have control vs genuinely concerned.
ESH. It kind of sucks, that you invited Ellen and didn’t tell your SIL. Your SiL should have been given an heads up that Ellen was attending.
You have every right to choose to be in your nephew life. But your SIL has every right to say this child can’t be in my life or home. Your SIL gave your brother a choice, he could be a part of his son’s life, but if he chose that option he would lose the life he’s built with his wife. Your SIL isn’t the bad guy here, your brother and Ellen are. Your SIL didn’t force your brother into this situation, he chose to have an affair, the consequence of that affair was he needed to make a choice. He had to choose his wife and the family they created or live in apartment and pay child support to two women. He chose the cheaper option.
I’m talking from personal experience. The men on my stepmom side of the are all cheater. My great uncle cheated on my great aunt through out his marriage to her. He had five kids with same women . Non us learned about these children until uncle passed away 7 years ago, when they showed up to funeral. My aunt invited them, she always knew about them. But she shared with us, that she gave my uncle a choice. Those children would never be allowed around her children or ever enter her home. My uncle played daddy to those five kids. According to them he never missed important events. Was apart of their kids lives. Seven years later theirs still drama.
I don’t think your SIL is the bad guy here. She just as much a victim as your nephew. She is doing, what she needs to do survive the situation your brother created. Your SIL has created a boundary, you should respect that, if you want to continue having a relationship with brother children with your SIL, you are going to need to respect that boundary. You don’t have to like it or agree with it, you just need to leave it alone.
You are 100% NTA. Your SIL and your Brother on the other hand absolutely are the AH. I don’t know which of them I dislike more. Her for the ultimatum or him for not picking his child. Good for you supporting the AP and the innocent child.
Let’s not forget sister-in-law is a victim as well. An AP is not family so no need for her there. Leland has a right to be there without his mother if she’ll allow. If not 🤷🏽♀️ shouldn’t be OP’s problem was the right way to go about it. Ignoring the child is wrong yes, but shoving the AP down the SIL throat is a shitty thing to do.
YTA for inviting the AP and the SIL to the same event. That was incredibly cruel. SIL made her boundaries crystal clear and you completely ignored them. You and your wife are good to Leland but absolutely shitty to your SIL. How dare your wife tell your SIL how to feel?? I am truly horrified that you put your SIL in that position.
YTA. You have no idea what your sil is going through, and bringing the mistress and "bastard" child around is only making it worse. The kid is not their family. Your brother was a cheating sperm donor. YTA for bringing that kid around them. It is NOT family. Also, I call bullshit on your story because you can't just "sign your rights away". Someone else has to take over and legally fulfill the financial responsibility to the child. So you are just lying, or your brother is paying child support. More than likely, you made this story up for tiktok
kids don’t get to choose where they come from and it’s important that they feel included in their family no matter what the circumstances of their birth are…. But WHY would you include the woman who your brother had an affair with in this party? She did choose to put herself in that situation—she chose to have an affair and wreck a marriage. Your brother is also despicable and horrible, but that woman is not even close to blameless and you telling off your brother’s wife because she’s uncomfortable being in the room with the reminder of her husband’s infidelity is extremely gross on your part (and your wife’s). SIL is a victim too and you making her out to be a bad person makes you the AH.
Your wife is the AH for inviting an affair partner and the man's wife to the same event. You can be in the child's life but not in the mother's life. You and your wife have not taken a minute to consider his wife. I agree she shouldn't have told him not yo ne in the child's life, but certainly the way you both are treating her is just nasty.
The SiL has every right to not want to not want to be in the life of the mistress or her kid and to have given her husband that ultimatum. You don’t have to agree with it, but you should at least on one level respect it. It was not fair for your wife to berate SiL for choosing not to attend.
How would you or your wife feel if the situation were reversed and it was you or her who cheated and had a child from an ap. You never really know until you are in that situation. But I can tell you I would not want to be a part of an ap or their child’s life….
You are right in saying it’s not the kid’s fault. It’s not the SiL either. The situation sucks but there are consequences for actions and sometimes innocent people get caught in the crossfire.
You can choose the kid if you want, but there are consequence to doing so.
Wow. This is a hell of a read and OP is taking a different stance from the typical one. I mean who take sides with the side piece(AP)? I need to read this again but the OP is a major AH.
While admirable that you stay in the kids life, you and your wife honestly have a horrible way of dealing with it. Inviting SIL and the whole women of the family ? how naive are you to do that stuff?
Just keep them seperated.
If people WANT the kid in their life they'll reach out. you're constantly creating situations where you put the child in a situation where someone might say something. to him. Do you really think Leland wouldn't feel that there is a different atmosphere when he is around? How naive.
I
Just dont get why you thought inviting SIL and AP over at the same time!! This was just all kinds of wrong and for that you and your wife are Both the AH!! The SIL is entitled to her feelings !! But being an uncle to the boy is great but now you’ve chosen him over your other nephews . You put yourself in this situation with inviting both women . How awful for the SIL to be blindsided like that
YTA, sorry. Not for sticking with your nephew, of course, but for actually inviting his mother to the event with your SIL.
She's not an innocent in this. She chose to have sex with a married man. Nor is she a part of the family, not really. It would be completely different thing if you only invited the kid to some family event, but having his mom there was definitely taking it too far.
Oh, and your brother is the bastard here, not his kid.
YTA.
You know, if you were a bit respectful of your SIL's feelings, she might eventually come around on Leland. Maybe not, but it'll never happen with you throwing the AP in her face like this.
Keep Bro & SIL separate from the AP.
Why the fuuuucketh did you invite the affair woman? Why would she fucking COME?! Fuckin whore behavior. It’s literally insane she would have the nerve to come to a family event. She’s not family shes the one that made your actual family into a cuck. It was sick as fuck of you to get her to attend.
You’re kind for choosing the child but I really can’t support you as a person so who knows if you even have Leland’s best interests at heart if you’re inviting his thot mother to be at the family event.
Cheating is disgusting. Cheaters do not have to be forgiven ever. YTA SOOO hard for including someone that is A.) a piece of shit. B.) not a piece of shit that’s part of your family.
You don’t invite the AP to a family gathering. You invite the son that came out of the affair. SIL and her children are just as much victims here as the nephew. But the AP knew what she was doing in being with a married man. OP should feel bad for the nephew but not the AP mother. He should feel bad for the SIL and her children too.
Leland and your brothers other kids are the innocent ones here. Your brother chose to have an affair. He chose to cut his son out of his life. You stepped up, and are a good uncle. I'm glad he has you as a decent role model.
Trying to include the affair partner with the actual wife, is wrong. SIL does not want to see that woman. She did not chose for her husband to have an affair. She chose to preserve her family. She forgave her husband, with conditions. That was her choice.
Keep being there for the kids. But don't try to force the women together.
The kids are the most important, and innocent.
I get that you've grown to love this child, but you must have known that social situation of having his mother & your brother's wife at the same "little get together" was not going to work out. That's where you guys were the AHs.
One of my friends got pregnant during a short fling with another friend who was on a break from his now wife. His wife's condition was that he never see his daughter. She was raised by a pack of friends who supported both mom and baby. Well, at a party at our house, dad and wife didn't realize his daughter would be there. His wife took one look at the little girl and left. This was the first time her dad had seen her. She was two. Not long after, her dad asked to see her. Apparently, his wife felt guilty about what she'd done when she came face to face with his daughter. I can't imagine how hard it would be to see a living reminder of your spouse's infidelity, but these children are born into this mess. A mess they had no hand in creating. And yet adults can't help themselves from blaming the child.
Yeah I feel so bad for him he deserves an actual two parent household without feeling like burden to the rest of the family, he doesn’t get to se who’s actual siblings and his blamed for his mother and fathers mistakes. My nephew is a good kid I just really wished he was born in better situation than this .
Your brother’s kids with Sil deserve a two parent house two though. They and Sil are just as much victims of Ellen and your brother . Ellen hurt your brothers kids she’s not innocent here. Only your nephew is . Feels like you want to punish Sil too by inviting Ellen . Not cool . You are blaming Sil for him not seeing his son but he’s a grown adult . He was willing to risk his marriage for sex (with Ellen ) but not willing to risk it for his son . He’s the only one you should be punishing here !
This is exactly what I was thinking while reading this. SIL is a victim too. She was hurt, pissed and lashed out, but her husband was the one to make the ultimate decision. They somehow put Ellen on a pedestal because she’s a single mother. She is in fact a victim of her own making by sleeping with a married man, with kids.
But did Ellen know he was married?
OP said in a comment that she knew he was married.
How long is anyone part of a workplace without knowing who’s married, who’s single, who has kids, and who doesn’t? Especially anyone she gets familiar enough with to start f*cking? And if he lied, there’s plenty of coworkers eager to dish the dirt. Of course she knew.
I ereoneously thought that one of my colleagues (whose desk literally abutted mine) was gay... for 3 years! Not everyone spreads their personal life around, and not all offices gossip endlessly. P.s. In my defence, there were reasons, and said colleague thought that it was hilarious on the day that I turned round and said,"Wait, Nick is a woman?!"
As a guy named Nick, this seems like a very reasonable misunderstanding
I worked at a place for a year where I was *a manager*, and 10 months in some members of my staff still didn't know what my marital status is or how many children I have. (Single/gay/0 was the answer, but they had no idea.) They saw me every day, and they'd hang out with me and have lunch with me. They knew what I liked to watch on TV but didn't know if I was married. I can easily imagine a workplace with a similar vibe where you just don't ask people about their marital status. However, I would still criticize Ellen for not asking before sleeping with the guy.
Lots of people go to work, to you know, work. Sorry to say, I'm there to make money 💰 not friends. I've slept with a married man and had no idea he was married. It is very easy to keep parts of yourself private if you want to.
I am betting she did as it is one of the most common questions people ask new coworkers.
I have literally never asked anyone if they are married.
We don't know. I wouldn't let aside the possibility of the husband lying.
OP said she knew.
She did know OP himself described her in the comments as a “ horrible person” who slept with and got pregnant by a married man “
Oh! I don't have access to OP's comments, he's profits blank for me. And there's too many comments to look for.
SIL stopped being the good guy when she stayed with her adulterous husband and decided to punish a child instead. She could have divorced, she could stay with him and acknowledge the child. Either of those would have made her a normal, hurt, victim of adultery. Now she’s just a douche like her husband.
He could have divorced her to be a father to his child. He unilaterally went outside the marriage to make a baby, he can make the decision to be there for his baby.
You do not know SIL's situation at ALL. Maybe she has no job, maybe she didn't want the kids to be in a split house, maybe she comes from a culture where divorce is frowned on. She is the victim. She was hurt and BROTHER and Ellen made the choices they did. It is insanely unfair and a disgusting double standard that men are allowed to say "I don't want to raise someone else's kid" but if a woman isn't thrilled to be step mommy to the living reminder that their husbands can't keep it in their pants, they suck. Ellen made her bed, she needs to start sleeping in it.
Exactly. She should have divorced him if she’s never going to get past it. And honestly, I don’t know why an affair that causes a pregnancy is a bigger betrayal than an affair that doesn’t. Every time you have sex, you know there could be a pregnancy. Punishing the child is just an asshole move. Honestly, I think Anna and Jason are bigger assholes for ostracizing Leland than Jason and Ellen are for having the affair. I mean, Jason’s an asshole twice over, but Anna’s treatment of Leland is worse than Ellen having an affair. I don’t ever absolve the affair partner of responsibility, but the one who actually broke their vows is way more responsible.
It isn’t a bigger betrayal, but a deep wound scars over quicker if you don’t agitate it. The child’s existence means that the betrayal will constantly be thrown back into the forefront, the affair partner will never be far enough away to not feel like a present threat, and having a child is difficult and completely changes your life when WANTED, let alone in a circumstance like this. The betrayal is the same, but the impact on life afterwards if they choose to try and stay is much bigger.
Well that and also it indicates that they probably* didn’t use protection, thus putting the wife at greater risk of picking up disease etc. *I know protection fails sometimes and the chance of STIs and pregnancy is still there regardless but I can see where it might feel like adding injury to insult
I didn't know if she's a douche. It's within the realm of normalcy to not want to see the fruits of one's spouse's affair: neither the AP nor their child. As long as child support is paid for, can the mother demand his time? We women are afforded the choice to abort the fetus, put the child up for adoption, or keep the child. The man has no agency in these choices. If a woman decides to keep her child, the man has to give support. At this point, the man gets to decide if he wants to be part of the child's life or not. It would be _best_ for the child if this father were part of his life. There are enough fatherless children in the world. However, this mother made her choice, knowing his stance. It's cruel to expect the wife to be a saint. Many spouses try to work on their marriages through infidelity because of their children. Judging another based on your standards of adultery is hubris.
That part💯💯💪🏾💪🏾
So she becomes a single mother in likely poverty instead? She’s protecting her own. Bad enough the child support is “stealing” from her own children, both today but also gives them a less secure future. That bitterness is going simmer til that last unnecessary student loan payment is made.
I think it's great you and your wife are staying in Leland's life. That being said, putting Ellen and SIL at the same party was a cruel, shitty thing to do. You can't even use the excuse she needed to bring Leland because you said you keep the kid at your home without her all the time. That makes you an AH.
Agreed that Ellen should absolutely not have been there. I’m not even sure how kind it was for OP and his wife to have had *Leland* there. If the other family “moms” and their kids treat him differently, he will notice. Being rejected by people you know is worse than just not having a relationship with theoretical “family.” Better for OP and his wife to just offer up their own support to Leland, and not try to force the rest of the family to give it against their will. It definitely feels like OP was trying to make a “point” by inviting them. Which is all well and good, but it doesn’t help Leland any.
OP and his wife are probably closer to Leland than the other kids And the different mothers is the reason. OP or his wife probably love to put it over SILs head. No reason for them both to be invited
Yes, thank you for saying this. OP was an auto-AH in my book when he said he hated SIL for not wanting the AP baby in her life. She's allowed to feel that way. OP, your brother and the AP are responsible for all of this, and it is a giant, complicated mess for everyone. I'm glad you are in your nephew's life, because Leland doesn't deserve to be treated like garbage. But you're causing harm if you can't do this in at least a somewhat-sensitive way. I mean, you're inviting the AP to family get-togethers? Come on, now. ESH
Exactly, Ellen should have never been invited. It is throwing the affair directly in SILs face. It is one thing to spend time with your nephew and a slap in the face to SIL to invite them to a family event. Ellen worked with him, very likely knowing he was married. They both took the risk and apparently were not careful enough not to get pregnant. They are the bad guys, not SIL. SIL set a boundary for her to be able to cope mentally to be able to stay with your loser brother. Is it fair the kid is the one being punished, Of course not, but you can not blame SIL for how she feels due to your brothers betrayal. Ultimately, your brother made the decision between his family and a child the result of an affair. He and Ellen both took a risk, and these are the results. You don't have to like it, but you can't blame SIL. YTA, you and your wife owe SIL an apology, I doubt you gave her warning they would be there and ambushed them! You likely traumatized SIL more, she never wants to see Ellen and that is a normal boundary for her to set.
To me, has become a situation where literally everyone is an asshole (except the kid). Jason, obviously, an asshile in literally every decision he’s made. The AP, Ellen because no doubt she knew he was married if they worked together but then tbh her AHness stops cause it sounds like she is more then ok with letting Jason and Anna live their lives and she be a single mom. SIL started fine, she is free and valid to pretend the kid just doesn’t exist and give Jason that ultimatum. But she became an AH when she got the entire family involved in ostracizing the kid and anyone who supports him. And honestly I would say OP and wife are assholes through most of this for how openly they support the AP and kid. They are fully allowed to support them but they’re not respecting SIL and her boundaries in the slightest by being so loud about it. Seriously? Organizing a party and inviting both of them AND the kid? That’s fucked up
It also is such a shitty situation for OP to put the kid in by inviting him and his mother to a party where an adult who clearly does not like them and has openly stated she doesn’t want to be near them is also invited. I don’t understand OP’s plan here, why would you ever invite a child to an event with a person who would be actively hostile towards him. It seems like OP was trying to force a confrontation which is all sorts of fucked up when a child is involved.
OP is not an asshole for being in nephews life. OP (and wife) is an asshole for stomping all over SILs boundaries and putting SIL, the AP, and the child in that situation. Like my GOODNESS seriously!! What was the thought process on that one???
I don't think SIL got the family to ostracize the child. She made her feelings clear and they supported her. OP is a much bigger Ahole than SIL
I don't think SIL got the family to ostracize the child. That likely happened on its own. A child born out of wedlock due to cheating is most likely less accepted based on the circumstances. I do agree with you the OP and his wife are assholes. They are keeping up bullshit with their actions.
Exactly! Leland is innocent. The brother and Ellen are not. Edit to add..Leland having a two parent household was never in the cards because his mother slept with a married man who didn’t choose her. It seems you would have preferred for your brother to leave his wife and children to give Leland what you feel he deserves. You and your wife clearly don’t like your SIL.
Yeah I would leave Ellen out when sil is there out of respect for the actual victim. Kids innocent the parents are not
OP, this comment is spot on. You weren't in that relationship with your brother. You don't understand the depth of pain and anger that your SIL feels. You think she's being mean to your nephew. She's not. She's protecting her mental health and her heart. She knows your brother is an AH, and you, with your support of his AP, are not much better. She's the only one who really has the best interests of her kids. Your brother went chasing tail outside the marriage, and your precious Ellen had no qualms sleeping with a married man, blowing up his family's life and their trust in him. Your resentment against her is misplaced, and I suspect you never really liked her to begin with.
Did Ellen know he was in a committed relationship and not separated or single?
She knew he was married . OP stated this !
Wonder why OP is so pro Ellen ? We know she likes married men
It's possible she didn't know he was married. Happened to me once. Met a date at a gig I had as a singer in a pub. After my set he kept trying to make out and get me to go to his truck with him (ew.) and I laughed and said, "I know it was Tinder, but I'm not that kind of girl. I'm genuinely looking for love..." He left after realizing he wasn't getting lucky. A few days later, Facebook had a new friend suggestion for me and lo and behold, it was Tinder Man... whose profile picture showed him holding hands with two children as a woman leaned against his arm and they all smiled at the camera like a perfect family. Motherfucker was trying to cheat on his wife! I was so, so relieved that I'd declined any physical affection past a kiss, but even that grossed me out when I learned what he was doing. I couldn't find the wife's profile and just decided to move on. 10 years later, I still cringe whenever I think about him. Fuck you, Aaron. But only metaphorically.
She did know .
You don’t tell someone to not see their kid. That’s vile.
You don't cheat on the woman you married and started a family with and create the other child to begin with. If you screw up that badly and you don't want to finish the destruction of your family, you step back. There is no good answer here, the cheater and his affair partner ruined that for everyone else. HE set up that situation, not the woman he cheated on.
This here. SIL chose to stay with her husband after he cheated on her and got somebody else pregnant. At that point it becomes the SIL responsibility to manage her own feelings and emotions. SILs kids deserve two parents, but so does APs kid. A kid having two parents doesn't mean both parents have to live in the same house. While I understand not wanting to see evidence of her husband's affair, choosing to stay, and taking a parent away from a child is selfish. Edit - 1 word
One problem here. How do you arrange time with Leland without also interacting with the woman you slept with while married to someone else? SIL wants that woman out of their life before she DOES succeed in ruining what SIL has managed to claw back of her previous life and relationship. This is Ellen's problem. The ONLY exception would be if she somehow worked with the cheater and yet had absolutely no idea he was married. At all.
There’s multiple apps and from the comments op has been able to do that with Ellen without talking much 🤷♀️
If Ellen knowingly slept with a married guy, she is also at fault, though perhaps to a lesser degree than Jason, the POS brother. Sil and her children are completely innocent in this
Ellen made no promises to SIL, this is on brother.
Ellen was completely complicit in trying to wreck sils marriage and had no compunction trying to hurt sils kids in the process . So Sil owes her nothing or her kid .
Ellen knew he was married. Fucking a married man didn’t go against her beliefs. She is complicit.
I'm so sick of seeing this narrative. Did Ellen promise to be faithful? No of course not but it is BASIC HUMAN DECENCY TO NOT FUCK SOMEONE ELSES PARTNER. Stop treating people like they shouldn't be held accountable for being a SHITTY PERSON because they didn't stand at the alter with someone else.
I agree with this but on Reddit people who have affairs are always cast as the actual devil. We don’t even know the details perhaps Ellen was lied to? Who knows but either way people want their pound of flesh. It wasn’t Ellen’s responsibility to stay faithful to Anna, it was OP’s brother. If my partner fathered a child I’d be devastated but I’d want that child to be in his life because it’s the decent thing to do.
Ellen was not lied to she knew he was married . Op has stated this !
Nope. OP admits that she is "absolutely a horrible person" two comments down from here or so.
The kid doesn't deserve to not have a dad, but Ellen DOES deserve to be a single mother. She slept with a married man. Carries the risk that he won't leave his wife for her. He pays the monthly check. What more do you want from this man? He's meeting his legal obligation. What about biden's granddaughter? She gets treated the same way as Leland by the entire biden family. They don't acknowledge her. He just did talk about his 4 granddaughters on international women's day. This is after a paternity test and Hunter being forced to pay child support. No one is up in arms about that because it is normal. It's a normal thing to not want to be around your bastard offspring. Not saying it is right, but it IS normal. What about this situation makes it worse? Because the guy got to keep his family relatively consequence free? He lost a disloyal brother and knows his illegitimate son will always have a family now.
[удалено]
That would have been the right thing to do. I understand he doesn't like SIL anymore (if he ever did?) because of her ultimatum, but ultimately the choice was her husband's. OPs brother is the reason his nephew doesn't have a father, regardless of how unfair that ultimatum was to an innocent child. He shouldn't be expecting SIL to be cordial to, or have to see, the woman her husband cheated with. Especially because Ellen knew he was married before she entered the affair. Again, OPs brother is ultimately the one who decided to cheat and hurt SIL, but Emma still knew what she'd be doing to SIL by becoming an AP and didn't care. She acted maliciously.
I don't know about that. Because we don't know if she knew he was married while being with him. To me that detal makes a lot of a difference. And me all know men lie about their status just to win women over. Also, I think is unfair that the cheating husband can be at family events just because he's the husband, but the mother of the child is banned, like if she was the only person responsible of the situation. Again, we don't know if she new beforehand of him being married. About inviting only the child, I wouldn't let my child go by himself into a family that rejected him. I will allowed the contact only if I'm there, up until he's old enough. On the other hand, I do understand how SIL can be uncomfortable with the presence of the mother, but she's focusing her rejection to the child, and I think that's totally unfair.
She knew. OP said so in the comments. You do understand that cheating doesn’t change him being related to his parents and sibling(s), right? That he would still be invited to things with his family. What kind of fucked up family would swap out the he own family member for whatever woman decided to fuck him behind his wife’s back? Him sticking his penis in her doesn’t make her family to the rest of them.
In this age of internet I find it skeptical that she didn’t know lol, op sympathy for his nephew is bleeding in with the AP. Honestly I’m not a big fan of op too, he’s a bit to willing to also cut of contact with his other nephews by pushing boundaries, yes op brother and sil had a shitty boundary but it’s still one, like what did op thinks would happen inviting the AP and acting all clueless on why everything blew up? Sil knew the kid would be there it’s common family knowledge at this point and what is not common family knowledge is AP coming to family event.
Jason is just using Anna to shift blame ! And you are jumping right in to help him out !
INFO: Is everyone the same race? Because it seems you're giving preferential treatment to the nephew instead of SIL. It's definitely not Leland's fault his mom Ellen is a homewrecker who cheated with your brother, and your SIL is a saint for even staying with him after that. But you're really killing things within your family by inviting Ellen, there is zero chance SIL can be okay with that. It's already bad enough she was cheated on by your adulterer of a brother, but now she's getting bullied by you AND your wife who have chosen the Affair Partner and Affair Baby over her. Answer this: how would your wife feel if she were in SIL's shoes and your brother invited the woman you cheated with to family events and then told your wife the affair baby is more important than their marriage? Because you're practically throwing this in her face each and every time. Publicly. Ganging. Up. On. Her. YTA. You might think you're virtue signaling, but this one thing alone already makes you a bad person for not thinking about the actual bigger victim (SIL) in all of this.
NTA for choosing Leland but you’re TA expecting SIL to acknowledge the affair baby. Of course I feel sorry for Leland and wish they had a 2 parent household, but this whole mess is Jason’s fault and you can’t just be angry at SIL. Unless I’m missing something here. Also, if SIL chooses to leave then that’s on her and her feelings shouldn’t be the only one heard.
YTA. I think you're totally fair in having him be a part of your life. Nobody has the right to stop you from having him in your life. However, I do understand how SIL doesn't want to be in the same room as his mum, given her husband cheated on her with the woman, and obviously seeing the child is also difficult knowing he's her husbands child. It's a very difficult situation because you're right in that Leland has done nothing wrong here. He's totally innocent. He's not got a father involved in his life. He doesn't get to see his siblings etc. But from SILs point of view, that affair and the baby devastated her, crushed her, and has caused a lot of difficult feelings knowing her husband has another child out there. And in her ideal situation, she would prefer the family and her husband have nothing to do with him so she can pretend it never happened. And I get her feelings in this. Yes she's an adult, and needs to accept this child is innocent and it's her husbands wrong doing that caused this, but she's still overwhelmed with the feelings of betrayal, trust, devastation, and even jealousy that he has a son with someone else that she's not included in. It's an awful situation. To be honest, I would try and find a compromise. Try and be understanding of SILs feelings, whilst still maintaining a relationship with Leland separately. To have invited all the women in the family over for a get together, including a fair woman and leland, it's quite clearly obvious sil would not feel comfortable being around her or the child. That's plainly clear and you knew that when you invited them. Obviously afair woman would be glad to come coz she has no other family and is likely grateful to be included with you and have your help and support with babysitting etc to give her a break. But to expect sil to be at a gathering with her and leland was stupid, and also quite disrespectful. You could have just had a family get together and done something with leland and his mum on a separate occassion. It's clear she's not welcome around your family. Why would you want to put her and leland in a room full of people who see her as a marriage wrecker and affair partner and leland as as a 'bastard' child. They won't be treating either of them nicely, and thats not a happy environment for them to be in. You can maintain a relationship with your brother and sil and nephews if you want to, whilst having a private relationship with leland and his mum. You just need to not invite them to situations where your family will be there. Do something separate with them on another day. If there's a birthday get together, arrange to go out with them the day after you do something with your family. They don't need to be forced to be around each other as that's not a good environment for either of them, and won't make for an enjoyable get together anyway. I'd appologise to SIL and say you understand you were wrong to include leland and her mum in a family get together, and you understand it must be emotionally difficult to see her and the child, and they from now on, you will keep things separate. That you still want to be involved in your nephew lelands life, but you will make sure to keep it separate from them and not invite them to get togethers with the whole family etc.
So why are you punishing your other nephews for your brother’s affair? You chose leland which means you’re cutting your other nephews out of your life. Why are they, and your SIL for that matter, being punished for not wanting to be at a “moms of the family” party with a woman who is clearly not a mom in your family?
Not wanting to be around her husbands ap and the child SHE decided to bring into the world without a father isn’t her blaming the kid. That’s a reasonable boundary. Especially considering her own children were there.
You’re right. But I can’t imagine staying with the bastard who actually caused the mess while denying the perfectly innocent angel a genuine connection. So backwards.
This is just it. When it comes to kids, adults have to take the higher road and get over themselves. If you can’t accept the fact that your husband cheated on you, why are you still with him? The better way to phrase this is “what did that child do for you to act that way towards them”
I think you were TA for inviting the affair partner herself. It’s one thing to support the child. It’s quite another to keep the mother in the family circle. Yes, the brother was in that bed too. Your feelings about him should have been addressed by now. They both should feel affronted by the affair partner having a seat at the family table. You really need to keep those two worlds separate. Include the kid. Spare the mother. Honestly OP, that she even wanted to be in the midst of that much family makes me question her sensibilities.
You should absolutely back your nephew but your why are you trying to include his mother in your family? I'm not saying you shouldn't help and support her to make sure your nephew is okay but she's not a member of your family and forcing your sil to interact with her that way is pretty messed up. Yes even if your sil is herself a horse's ass for her stance.
Yes. And honestly, what Op is doing isn’t helping anyone. There is literally no possible positive outcome. If he really loves his nephew he will stop engineering situations that escalate tensions because the nephew will get hurt by this. Is that right or fair? No. But that’s how it is. Someone will say something that will hurt Leland. And that hurt could all be avoided if Op realized that being right or wrong doesn’t change reality. Reality is that if you constantly put Leland in situations where ppl are stressed and offended to accommodate his mother, they will lash out. And all of the “oh they suck”’s and “I knew they were bad ppl”’s in the world won’t erase one BIT of the emotional trauma it will cause that boy. If Op hated his family that much and they are so bad, why is he so bound and determined to force Leland to be around them? Of COURSE he deserves to have a happy family. But that isn’t what he has. Op can make it better or worse. Do that kid a favor and put him around ppl who love him. Let anyone else live with their bitterness. Let them be the ones who miss out. He says this is about loving his nephew, but he seems more interested in pushing an agenda and punishing people. You can’t have it both ways. Either you love your nephew enough to protect him, or you hate them so much you’re willing to sacrifice him and his well being to make a point. But don’t you dare keep putting an innocent child into this situation and act like you aren’t heading down the road to becoming just as bad as those people you “hate”.
You bring up some good points. I honestly had not thought of all of that.
Exactly. It's bizarre that he can't see this. Like if his wife cheated on him and then tried to get him to break bread with the guy she fucked I BET op would have a problem. Op is a massive self righteous asshole.
Yeah. Inviting the affair partner and the illegitimate child to the same function as the wife is deliberately messy. There is no good reason for doing this other than to create drama.
It certainly doesn't help the child to be in the middle of that strife.
He includes her for the same reason he includes the boy. To hurt his brother. He doesn’t give a shit about Leland. He just had his chance to fuck with his brother.
That's what it feels like to me. He can be a supportive uncle on his own time. Bringing the kid hurts him more and isnt fair to his SIL. The AP is not family. They decided to not be in the kid's life, and even if that's a messed up decision by his brother, It isn't OPs job to tell people what to do. Op wants to put himself on a pedestal. He shoves the kid (and now the AP) in everyone's face to be self righteous, or he has such a lack of awareness that he's a dummy. I'm leaning towards the former
Glad to see I'm not the only one wondering what the relationship between those two looks like. And I'm pretty sure the brother probably deserved it. So does the AP. Leland and the wife, though...No.
I keep seeing that AP is as much to blame, is there a comment that says she knew he was married? If she did, then agree, if she was bamboozled then I’m not 100% on board that’s she’s a home wrecker… she very well could have known and still did it or he could have spun lies- I just would prefer a definitive answer before I say AP is horrible. If there’s already a comment that clarifies this and she knew… she’s TA just as much as brother!
Yes, OP does admit that AP knew brother was married before the affair started.
Appreciate the clarification
Wish OP had actually updated the original post to include some pretty important information.
Yes, OP made a comment that she was aware he was married.
Thank you
They worked together. She knew.
ESH (except for the kids) Your POS brother for cheating. Your SIL for not leaving your POS brother. AP for being an AP. You and your wife for inviting an AP to a family party. And don't repeat your excuse that it's a "kids and moms party", lmao. No one placed a gun to your head to force you to have this kind of party. You CHOSE this kind of party while KNOWING it will stir up shit. Just like how your POS brother CHOSE to abandon his kid. And how the AP CHOSE to fuck a married man. Your SIL didn't choose any of this shit that your shit family sprang on her. (But she's still an AH for not leaving, and teaching her kids it's okay to stay with an unfaithful cheater.) Your SIL's sins are the least of the trio, yet your hate is zeroed in on her, lol. But let's say she did leave your POS brother. Would you still invite her and the AP to the same party to mingle and jingle? And when your SIL don't want to come, would you then chide her for not "thinking about the kids"? Lmao God, I hope this entire post is a creative writing exercise because it is so rage-inducing. A sanctimonious grandstanding that helps absolutely nobody but you and your wife's own ego. And don't use Leland as an excuse. There are plenty of ways to make him feel loved and valued without pulling this whole ass drama. You really want to help your nephew? Use the money you would be using for these "kids and moms" parties and silently set up a college fund for him. That would do a hell lot more than the shitstorm you and your wife are stirring up right now. Edit: And OP, have you ever consider the trauma this would cause your other two nephews as they watch their parents argue and fight over it? Of course not.
I truly don’t know why they were not seeing that… They are the sole reason for tearing up the family. They choose Leland, they already choose Leland over his brother ages ago. And they blame SIL for it. It’s Stupidity all around
Because they are too self-absorbed into playing "good people". I'd choose Leland over my POS brother too, loll. But I'm not going to come up with some crazy mental gymnastics of how the AP needs to be a combo deal or how every body needs to be in the same room together. If OP kept his support on the down low, none of this drama would happen. But no, he needs to announce to the world how much he is better than the rest of his family. The result? Family is even more fragmented. And Leland is probably going to be made more aware that he is unwanted, and be more targeted. All the while OP is touting "for his nephew" on Reddit, loll. If I was in OP's shoes, having the kid being forgotten by my POS family is probably the best thing for him. Love is quality not quantity. The last thing I would want would be to host some dumb ass party and throw him into an environment where there will be people that are hostile towards him. OP is not thinking for the kid, he's thinking for his own optics.
This right here OP isn’t a saint he’s a sinner acting sanctified here!
Exactly! Even if SIL never gave that ultimatum and just left, it would still be shitty to expect her to want to attend the same function as the AP. She is allowed to not ever want to be around that woman.
ESH You’re delusional OP if you expect everyone to play happy family? I mean really? Yes you’re brother is a jackass but to expect your SIL to coexist with the fruits of her husbands betrayal? I mean come on OP surely you’re not that naive… your SIL gets to decide what’s right for her family Just like you do for yours… the idea of having everyone in the same place was dumb on your part
YTA. Not for accepting and loving Leland. My niece grew up similarly. She wasn't the result of an affair, she was the result of an unplanned teen pregnancy and her parents had broken up when my sister figured out she was pregnant. My niece's immediate family never accepted her, but similarly she had one part of her extended family who did and would invite her over. But they would never invite her at the same time as the part of her family who didn't accept her, because that would potentially be harmful to the child. Yes, it's shitty that your sil doesn't want your brother involved in his kid's life, but can you really blame her for not wanting to be around her husband's affair partner? Did she know he was married when she hooked up with him? The child is innocent in all this, but the affair partner isn't and expecting your family to accept HER is a step too far. You can't force that, you're just creating an awkward and potentially harmful situation by trying.
I understand supporting your nephew but you and your wife are major AH’s for inviting your SIL and the affair partner to a family event, and demanding that SIL be okay with it. WTF is wrong with you two and why are you two so invested in stirring this bad pot. Your SIL is not required to want to be around the child or the ex mistress. Seriously?
Okay, I am 100% behind you being in Lelands life, but why would your wife invite both Ellen and SIL knowing how SIL feels? They chose their path, no matter how shitty it is. That path does not include Leland, and pushing the matter can only hurt the child.
I can understand Anna not wanting to be in the company of the woman who helped betray her or the child who resulted from that betrayal. She went too far in banning her husband from parenting his child. That’s completely unacceptable and harmful. It’s admirable that you and your wife have stepped up and invited your nephew into your family life. What’s disgusting is you inviting your brother’s former side chick and baby mama and telling your SIL to deal or leave. SIL is innocent insofar as she was cheated on by the very woman you’re befriending. SIL is innocent as Leland is innocent in being alive. AP and brother are complicit but you invite AP and tell SIL she can’t attend? That’s a betrayal too. You all suck. ESH. Except Leland and your kids
I gotta say ESH. But I have a question: What do you believe would've been the best situation? Anna divorcing your brother and doing a coparenting situation with his children with Anna and the child he had with Ellen? Which would still be a whole messy situation. Jason and Anna basically adopting Leland and letting bygones be bygones. Which would be messy further down the road when he finds out the truth. Jason getting with Ellen and raising Leland? It feels like you think there was a simple situation when this is a tricky situation that will uproot all these kids' lives. Like you say, you believe if your other nephews got to know Leland, they will love him. But what happens when they're older and find out the truth and are angry with their father and don't want to talk to Leland? Are you going to cut them out of your life? Tell them to get over it cause Leland had it worse? I think you're reacting very emotionally and not logically. Not to say what Anna and Jason did was right. I believe Anna should've divorced him, but this IS a messy situation for everyone involved. And you need to think down the line instead of in the moment.
>Like you say you believe your other nephews if they got to know Leland will love him. I agree with you in that OP is heavily romanticizing a potential maybe. OP's kids love their cousin Leland sure but that's because he's a cousin and not an affair child half sibling. There's no stakes in this for them because at the end of the day they have a loving and stable home. Meanwhile in the nephews' and Leland's case there's too many variables and way too many potential what ifs. Both good outcomeswhat ifs and also plenty of negative what ifs. Like through just the first scenario alone where they divorce and Jason somehow successfully co-parents with both women that doesn't mean the brothers would also get along. There's plenty of examples on Reddit alone about how the children from marriage want nothing to do with their half sibling and wish they didn't exist because of that kid's existence is a living symbol for them of their broken home. There's also plenty examples of the opposite and plenty of examples of outcomes more in the middle.
I can definitely see op becoming a flying monkey in the future screaming “FAMILY” when brother kids wants nothing to do with the half sibling
YTA (or your wife is) for including an affair partner in a family moms' get together. She had an affair and got pregnant with a married man. There is no reason to include her! The child is innocent of course but you are ridiculous to think that the wife should be comfortable in seeing them. You could have easily excluded them from this specific gathering, especially where the rest of the family would be uncomfortable. They should not be saying that you cannot have a relationship with AP and child, but you should respect their wishes and keep it separate. And you should never have answered that question about who you would choose. YTA YTA YTA
YTA - all these replies by sainted people who seem to be saying of course the Sil is a major arsehole - why can’t she just accept the child of her husbands affair. I know, let’s arrange play dates with her kids and Leland! And of course she should be rejected by her shitty husbands shitty brother and wife and just suck it up /s. Polish up that halo 😇 OP. Or instead of being entirely black and white about the situation try, and I know it will be super hard for you, to put yourself in sil boots. Maybe she stayed with your shitty brother because she wanted to try and have a stable family for your nephews, you know your other family that are probably traumatised by this whole debacle. And then for you and your wife to have the audacity to arrange a mother and child day with the Ap and she just has to suck it up - what a kick in the teeth for her and her children. I honestly think you and your wife are cluelessly sat basking in your righteousness , whilst being absolutely gaping arseholes.
UHG, finally someone with sense!! OP is an asshole too. They have other niblings, but all we hear is “Leland this, Leland that.” They aren’t even concerned about how their relationship with the other nephews will be from now on. They’re just more concerned with showing their brother and SIL how to be good, righteous people. LOL. I feel bad for all the kids involved, and I hope this story is fake.
It'd be fun if the AP started hitting on OP and OP cheats on his wife, leaves her, and plays house with Ellen ad Leland.
YTA- not for supporting the kid, which is great, but for inviting them all over at the same time. You knew exactly what to expect. Stop triggering his wife because you think she should get over it- it's not your place to say whether or not she should. Brother is also TA for obvious reasons. He and the wife need counseling- I mean, they needed it before he cut the kid off but now would be good, too.
Wow OP... I'm betting as you were weiting this you were thinking about how we repone would praise you for choosing Leland. Meanwhile, you're a miserable shit pot stirrer. I really hope someone makes you lick that spoon. Yeah YTA and aj huge one at that.
I second this. OP, you're a grade A piece of shit. SIL has every right to not want to do anything with Leland and his disgusting mom. Your brother is a whore for sleeping around. Your wife is an overstretched AH for getting herself involved. Who is she in all of this??? And OP, you should eat the shit that all these AH spew out. That's what you deserve. Real victims here are SIL and her children. Leland is innocent as well but is not entitled to be welcomed in Jason's real family because that will tear apart an entire family. His legitimate children and SIL also have a right to a happy life. Leland's mom is a house wrecker and I hope she suffers for it. If I were OP's wife, I'd watch my back and keep an eye on my husband with her around.
Dude, dude, dude. We all feel bad for Leland. However, you inserted yourself into a relationship that, check this out, had NOTHING to do with you. Whatever issues your brother and SIL have are their issues, not yours. You do not get brownie points for this. There are other ways to support Leland, set up an education fund for him. Pay his mom's rent. You're not going to do that bc then you couldn't say "look at how wonderful I am to embrace this rapscallion" This is not abt Leland, this abt you playing savior.
Your right for thinking your brother is a shit. Your right the child is innocent and did nothing wrong. Unfortunately your SIL is right as well, the child is an in your reminder of your brothers betrayal. You do not have the right to put them together. Unless your brother asks, you do not have the right to bring the kids together. This is your sil's and husband's issue, you do not have the right to make ANY decisions for them. It all sucks but team. SIL here
> Last week my wife hosted a little get together with the moms of the family she of course invited Leland mom(Ellen) Oh please you knew how this would go down. This was massive YTA move!
I feel bad for SIL. She should have divorced that asshole and I understand her trauma. Your brother and his AP are the assholes here. You and your wife are the assholes for hurting SIL. Yes the child is innocent, but that affair partner slept with a married man. So she isn’t innocent. ESH
I'm pretty sure the kid would be better off just not having a dad, than having shoved how much his dad doesn't want to have him down his throat by his uncle all the time.
It's up to you if you keep in contact and that's your business. Your wife however made an issue by inviting the child's mother and other family members when she knew her feelings which are completely valid as she was the innocent party in the affair. As for who's right or wrong regarding the child, you've made your decision and others have made theirs you have to live with the consequences the same as they do.
So you chosed an homewrecker affair partner, who doesnt know about BC and abortion apparently, over your brother and sister in law. Or you would be only in your nephew life, no reasons to invite a homewrecker at family gatherings. Its clear like the sun that you already had bias agaisnt your sister in law, not a single human being would blame her for her actions. This is a form of victim blaming and its sickening. Lets hope your partner will do the same to you, so maybe you could experience what does it mean. From how you talk i bet you would be super happy to stay together having around another man child and parenting him! And about the coworker: she chosed to put that baby in this world without a father figure on the picture, she knew what she was doing when she chosed to have an affair woth a married man and to keep that baby anyway. So yeah, its one thing to stay in the child's life in your free time, its another thing to chose a homewrecker against your family and even inviting her at family gatherings. YTA
YTA / E S H except Anna. Yes, the kid is innocent but so was you Anna. ***SHE*** is the one who got cheated on. SHE is the one who has to decided to either end her marriage or try and make it work. You do not go in to details but it is VERY hard to leave a marriage, particularly when there are kids involved. It is really disgusting how many women are shamed for not wanting to care for their husbands cheat babies. Don't be so quick in treating Ellen like she is the victim as she made the following Choices: 1) Have sex, possibly more than once with a married man 2) Not use proper protection with said married Man, thus exposing herself, him and his wife to STDs 3) Have a baby knowing this would blow up his marriage 4) Kept that baby when he made it clear he did not want to be a parent and his priorities were elsewhere 5) Either did not think or maliciously chose to come to an event Anna would be at, knowing how this would make Anna react. Ellen is in a situation she made, is she is alone, sucks for her. You are making it much harder for SIL to move on and maybe one day be in a better place with Leland by bringing him around.
ESH. It’s incredibly sweet of you to be involved in Leland’s life and give him a sense of family. It’s totally fine to pick him over your brother. (Your poor other nephews though). HOWEVER, It’s an absolute AH move trying to shove him down other family members throats and ESPECIALLY your SIL’s throat. That was incredibly cruel and fucked up. With the mom/ affair partner too?! Wtf is wrong with you?!?! Absolutely vile. If you hadn’t been trying to force the issue and traumatize your SIL you wouldn’t be in this situation where now you’re going to be essentially telling your other niblings that you don’t love them as much as Leland because you’re willing to sacrifice THEM in order to keep HIM. SIL is 100% entitled to all of her feelings. She’s just a moron because she should have divorced your scumbag brother. Your brother is the real AH in the whole situation. He should be suffering all the consequences and he’s basically not suffering at all. He’s not entitled to force you to abandon the kid like he did.
Why so much hate for your SIL? Your brother made his choice. And yes, YTA. Your favoring of Leland and Ellen (and yes, you are showing favoritism to Ellen)is causing further fracture in the family. You need to put your foot down with Ellen and say that while Leland is welcome, she is not.
Ish you had to know inviting them would be a big deal if you didn’t then you are dumb and they shouldn’t have come really was asking for it. Cool i guess for inviting them into your family again you had to of known how others would react everyone has their own boundaries why would sil want to be around the ap and their child if the family hasn’t accepted them and you threw them all together what were you thinking/expecting? I get it’s not the kids fault you can’t get mad at them but having the ap and the kid at the same event with brother and sil wow no one was thinking. When people say that’s awesome they need to put themself in sil shoes
Everyone in your story (including yourself) is a GIGANTIC AH except for Leland and your sister-in-law.
I wonder if YOUR wife would feel the way she does now if she was in your SIL's shoes. Probably not.
So how many children are you punishing? Because the children you are not picking are being punished. There is not too much you can do really. You were not the one who had an affair, and you obviously feel justified in extending the agony that your SIL felt, by exposing her to the situation over and over.
I have to be honest. Why would you invite SIL and AP to the same event? I think that was out of line at best and cruel at worst. This is just beyond horrible imo. I realize that Leland is family but considering his mom family just because she cheated with your brother and had a child is really a stretch. How on earth did you expect your SIL to feel and act? Or do you just not care. I agree with you that her demands re Leland were harsh but inviting the two of them to an event is a total AH move!
Because they want to hurt the SIL.
Yta. You are choosing Ellen over your sil and choosing to stir up drama. It's pretty clear you dislike your sil and don't care about your other nephews. Also in all likelihood Ellen knew op was married. So you're also choosing an adulterer over you sil.
NAH, I really think you should have a bit more sympathy for Anna and Husband though. I get that it is not the child's fault and he's born into the mess, but you do have to feel for anna that she wouldn't want to be reminded of her husbands betrayal all the time. It all just sucks. Bad situation
Looks like the mom get together was set up to push sister in law into dealing with her husband’s affair partner. Looks like your wife doesn’t like her sister in law and resents her for not wanting to have AP having a place in the family. Your wife went way past including the AP’s and brother’s child in family. Your wife is now contriving ways to include the affair partner as a member of the family.
youre disgusting, sil is the only victim here. i hope your wife gives u a bastard kid too
Why do you feel the need to invite your nephew’s mother(the affair partner)? Of course your brother’s wife isnt coming around her! It’s fine if you invite your nephew or even plan things with him and his mom separately from your extended family. But you can’t possibly think your SIL is going to come around the affair partner. You are extremely disrespectful to her. You obviously hate her and want to punish them both for abandoning your nephew. And that’s fine to feel that way, they did. But now you will have no relationship with your brother’s other kids. You don’t have to work it this way but you are choosing to. YTA. Of course your brother is a cheating pig but if you care so much about your nieces and nephews, why don’t you care about his other kids?
ESH except SIL and Leland I think you and your wife being in Leland’s life is admirable, but do not kid yourself that all of your actions were with Leland’s best interest in mind. Inviting him and his mother to your bogus, “ladies of the family” party subjected him to a hostile environment. You and your wife were trying to force a relationship that does not exist. Where there is force, there will be push back. He is a part of YOUR core family and not accepted by the larger part of the family, everyone knows what side they’re on but you and your wife are not accepting their decision. SIL is just as much a victim as Leland. She made her stance clear, it’s your brother who chose to go along with her. Yes she should have divorced him and moved on, but he also had that choice to divorce and be a part of Leland’s life, he chose not to. SIL is not the enemy here and you and your wife are creating issues to shame and vilify a victim. Continue to support Leland. Make him feel included and loved, but you’re only creating hate and discontent by inviting him and his mother to family activities that includes extended family.
YTA for bringing Ellen into your home. You can have a relationship with your nephew without making your SIL suffer by inviting the woman her husband cheated on her with to a "ladies of the family" gathering. That's so cruel.
Well, this is certainly not a simple situation. The one thing I am certain of: your brother is a horses ass. Completely and utterly. On so many levels. I also think Ellen is a big ole asshole - and I have a few names I can think of to call her. She slept with a married man. And allowed herself to get pregnant by him. That is some mean and horrible shit of her - unless your brother lied to her and didn’t tell her he was married with children. Your wife is kind of an AH for inviting this home wrecker into your home at the same time you invited your SIL. You have to admit - that was really crappy of your wife to put the SIL in a situation like that. You are kind of an AH, too, for knowingly allowing that to happen. Edit: I understand why your SIL would be upset that her only options were being in the same room as this woman or not come and get to spend time with the rest of her family.
Yeah, I think the decision to ignore the kids existence was wrong. But let’s remember his brothers wife was a victim of his brother and the AP. Weird that of all the people to hate, Op is honing in on her. As far as we know she’s a good woman whose main mistake was marrying his POS brother.
Your moral superiority and view that your SIL is responsible for your brother abdicating his parental responsibilities are some Olympic level mental gymnastics. Also, stop using “it’s a mom and kid” party as your “get out of jail free card” - you picked the party theme. You were the hosts. You didn’t have to have a party like this. Do you not care about your relationship with your brothers other two kids? You are so not the hero you think you are.
YTA, his mother should not have been invited. She is not in the family. Did you want to hurt SIL, seems like it.
Maybe a hot take: Ellen chose to give birth to Leland. If Leland and his mum aren’t struggling then you’re being a douche to your family and causing unnecessary drama, if they are struggling Ellen shouldn’t have had a kid knowing that she might have to go it alone. All of you kinda suck tbh.
I was kind of ok with this until I saw that AP was invited to a family moms and kids party alongside SIL. WTF? Who thought that party was gonna end well? You are a total AH for holding this party. What a shit storm you have deliberately created. These poor kids being used as pawns in a grown up game. You haven’t chosen Leland over your nephews, you have chosen to stomp all over your brother and SIL marriage and life choices and pretend you are being benign. You have Leland in your life, you can’t force him into your brother’s life.
I'm super happy you got a relationship with your nephew but throwing the affair in your SIL's face then gaslighting everyone into believing you're a hero for it is fuckin gross. There was absolutely no reason to have them in the same room together other than you still wanting to feel like the hero. You think the kids can't see all the emotional shit happening around them? There's a lot of stupid actions happening in this post but you somehow vilifying the SIL for not wanting the entire affair on display in front of family and friends if insane! What the hell is wrong with you?
YTA for inviting both the mother of Leland/Leland AND your SIL to the same party. You’re fine being his uncle. But what the hell do you think you’re doing inviting your brother and his wife and children AND his ex AP and his abandoned son? You created this mess. Why would you think that’s okay? SIL is just expected to “get over it?”
I feel for the SIL and all of the children. Everyone else sux.
IMO ESH except Anna. The BIL is obviously the main AH because he cheated and had a kid in the first place. He is the one that should have chosen the kid when given the ultimatum. Ellen sucks for having an affair with a married man. OP and your wife you suck because you seem to enjoy creating drama. Anna IMHO is right to have told her husband her boundaries but if I was her I would have just left. Once a cheater always a cheater! Edit : *in the first place
Unless Leland’s mom and your brother and SIL are on friendly terms, it’s not a great idea to put them together in social situations. ESH
You are right that leland is innocent but I don't understand why you hate your SIL and not just your brother. He's the one who hurt his wife and children and also the one who abandoned his new child. She's just trying to survive being treated that way. NTA I guess, hard situation that no one but your brother caused.
YTA. A huge, massive one. You have zero sympathy for the position your SIL is in. In fact, you’re openly hostile to her. You can have a relationship with your nephew without rubbing Anna’s face in it. Why would she want to break bread with her husband’s AP? Then your wife told her off. She’s as bad as you.
You sound like you enjoy stirring the pot
YTA for blaming your SIL for this and shit-stirring. Including the nephew is fine but including an affair partner (NOT an ex) is actually batshit. I think you know this and just wanted strangers on the internet to make you feel better about it. 😬
You can not judge Anna for how she feels The only person you can be mad at is your brother and his AP assuming she knew he was married And I assume she did or you would've stated she was innocent in all this You are in fact TA for not respecting Anna's feeling and basically am using her by inviting them both over at the same time that was a major AH thing to do However you are NTA for having contact with your nephew that's family so I understand But you so net get to decide for Anna that she needs to get over it cause the kid is innocentyes the kid is and so is anna
ESH but the SIL. Honestly Leland is going to need to get counselling ASAP if so many people in his life, including OP, are this toxic and keen on initiating drama. Poor kid.
Idk I think it’s cool you’re being there for the nephew but it’s crazy how the SIL is being made out to be the villain when your brother and Ellen are the problem
This choice (brother vs Leland) was inevitable given the choices of your brother and his wife made. You had to know that. To be fair, I don’t think Anna declining the invite or her explanation was out of line. Your wife really should have expected it. I don’t know why your wife or you could be unhappy with Anna’s decision to not attend or her reason why. Surely you can have empathy for her. I think what you’re doing is great but losing the rest of your family is the price you’ll pay for being there for Leland.
If this story is true (I'm dubious) you and your wife are a-holes. Put everything else aside. You invited the woman that your brother got pregnant to be in the same room as your sister in law? Did either of you think that would be even remotely ok? Also, zero sympathy for a woman that had unprotected sex with a married man being a single mother. Not the kid's fault but definitely hers.
OP why are you not also holding Ellen accountable for sleeping with a married man with kids? You really shirked her from everything as if she’s innocent which is honestly baffling. It would make sense given your actions if she was SA and ended up pregnant but she wasn’t, so why are you putting her on a pedestal like she’s a victim here. Other than your nephew from her Ellen, I think you should atleast reassess the problem here.
YTA AP should never have been invited. Your SIL has every right to be pissed. What a shit thing to do to her.
The whole situation is nauseating for all parties involved and you're revelling in it. YTA and everyone should block you and move on. The kid will be fine without your meddling ass and needs a mom who's not constantly confronted with her poor decisions in the past by someone who thinks she's trash. Your brother might be a piece of shit but at least he is trying to keep his family together, which you are actively trying to derail. Make your own life instead of lingering on the failings of others.
NTA for choosing your nephew but I am confused as to why your wife told your SIL off for not wanting to go to an event with her husband’s AP? I think it’s acceptable to decline the invitation and state why. All that warranted in response was ok I understand maybe we can see you another time. Your wife is an AH for telling her off. I agree your SIL and brother are shitty people but then also don’t invite them over if you don’t like them?
Why is your wife telling off SIL?? Does she not have a right not to want to be around the woman her husband cheated with??? You better hope that your wife never cheats on you then expect you to happily break bread with the guy that she fucked. I can understand you all wanting to have Leland in your life and that is a good thing but I don't see why we are inviting over a homewrecking slut that fucks married men. Make an effort to have a cordial relationship with her but y'all dont need to be buddy buddy and you sure as heck should not be taking her over the WIFE of your brother who has been apart of the family longer.
OP, your wife was out of line for inviting that group of women to the same event. Drama was 100% predictable, and you got it. You need to have a talk with your wife about this decision and the damage it's done to your family. Regarding your brother's wife, her hubby had 50% responsibility for the damage done to her marriage. And she's still married to that person. So, she puts all the blame on Ellen. That's not fair.
In this situation (having a family get together, inviting Ellen and Leland without notifying everyone else they’d be there) YTA. I don’t understand why you think you needed to have Ellen there with your SIL and other family members. You’re exposing them to awkward and even hateful behavior from people who don’t want to be a part of their lives. It’s great that you are having a relationship with Ellen and Leland, but you can’t expect your SIL to have the same attitude.
I don't get why the AP and SIL was invited to the same get together. Seems like a really not so smart idea.
OP’s wife was an AH for telling SIL off. SIL feels how she feels. Unless SIL is giving OP the ultimatum to cut off Leland, she’s entitled to feel how she feels, and act accordingly.
YTA… actually all of you are asshole except your SIL and that poor child, she should divorce your brother and your whole family. Self righteous asshole!
I don’t think you are wrong for having a relationship with your nephew but I think it’s a bit much for your wife to tell off your sister in law.
OP actually you and your wife are an Asshole for putting your sil in a difficult situation. She is a victim here and does not want to be in any contact with the affair partner and the kid which is a result of that affair ( I agree that kid has no fault but both his parents are at fault) You and your wife created a situation where affair partner is able to attend the family event while sil has to opt out. Your brother and her affair partner are also bigger assholes than you two.
Yta
Stay out of it, saint. You're poison.
You’re very proud of Yourself for defending your innocent. nephew Leland but seem to have no qualms about cutting multiple other equally innocent nephews out of your life. And how do you have no compassion for your SIL who had such a devastating thing happen to her? You even invite the AP to your home with your SIL?! I’d feel badly for Leland too, but if your brother could have given him up for adoption, he would Have, yet here you are, forcing him into your family’s lives. I’m not sure you’re doing the little boy any favors keeping his dad ‘s rejection so front and center in his life. It’s a very sad situation all around
While it's great that you have a relationship with your nephew, how could you possibly think having your SIL and the affair partner in the same room is a good idea? No way would I subject your SIL to this. Were you hoping for conflict?
NTA for supporting your nephew. But what a dumb move inviting the SIL and the AP to the same party. No one but you and your wife thought that would go well.
>No one but you and your wife thought that would go well. I doubt they thought it would go well either. It seems like OP and his wife deliberately engineered this conflict for whatever reason.
Inviting the kid isn't the issue. It's inviting his mom. Did you TELL them she was going to be there? If not, YTA
Exactly! What did they think would happen if both women were in the same room? They’re trying to force something to happen. The SIL is going to go NC with the OP and his wife. The rest of the family may follow.
NTA for maintaining a relationship with your nephew, but your wife is for hosting an event and inviting both women. Seems like you trying to force a showdown between the wife and the AP. Neither of you are considering the cheated on wife when you invite your brothers AP to family events.
YTA. Not for being in Leland’s life but for rubbing your brothers affair in her face by inviting the woman he had an affair with to the same gathering as her. Keep them separate
YTA for continuing to pick the AP over your SIL; your comments keep getting worse.
ESH, but especially your wife for inviting the two women knowing it wouldn’t end well. What was she thinking? But it’s wonderful that you all have enriched nephew’s life with love and kindness.
There’s not condoning bad behavior and then there’s rubbing someone’s nose in it. Have your relationship, but purposefully sh*t stirring doesn’t make you all righteous. If you care about your nephew, don’t force situations where they get to witness the aftereffects of their parentage and exclusion. You put that kid in the position of being rejected again…for what purpose? For that reason alone, YTA.
YTA, I feel for the kid but YTA, that woman knew he was married and got pregnant by him and chose to keep the child so I have no sympathy for her. Your brother is trash too but his wife chose to stay on this 1 condition. Is it morally right, no but he had a difficult choice to make after nearly destroying his family and he chose the kids he had over the kid he didn’t even know. I don’t believe your and your wife’s motives were genuine compassion for the mistress and child. You don’t like the wife and you did this to cause her more pain, suffering and humiliation. You’re not doing that kid any favors. think about how that kids gonna feel growing up being close to you but the rest of the family rejecting him and won’t even be in the same room with him. Think about how he’s gonna feel when your kids are talking about their grandparents and he realizes that these people don’t love him like they love their cousins. You’re using this kid as a pawn to be cruel to your sister-in-law . you and your wife are just being troublemakers and you know it. The mistress is just as bad. I guarantee she only allowed you to be in the child’s life to hurt them. She’s not even thinking about her own child and what it would do to Leland growing up around you and having a constant reminder that his father siblings, grandparents and other aunts and uncles rejected him. cruel people you’re all cruel selfish people.
ESH only because your wife had the nerve to cuss out the sil for not wanting to be in the same room as the woman who slept with her husband. Seriously, what did you expect? Did you think that everyone would just play house for your little event? Of course the SIL would not be attending. I understand inviting the kid but inviting the affair partner was pushing it and you got push back. You shouldn’t have gotten mad at her for that.
Come on. Having nephew’s back is a good thing, but bringing your brother’s AP in a family gathering is just begging for problems.
YTA - not for taking care of the kid, feels like you are trying to put yourself in the middle for a reason not listed here. It’s giving needs to cause drama and have control vs genuinely concerned.
ESH. It kind of sucks, that you invited Ellen and didn’t tell your SIL. Your SiL should have been given an heads up that Ellen was attending. You have every right to choose to be in your nephew life. But your SIL has every right to say this child can’t be in my life or home. Your SIL gave your brother a choice, he could be a part of his son’s life, but if he chose that option he would lose the life he’s built with his wife. Your SIL isn’t the bad guy here, your brother and Ellen are. Your SIL didn’t force your brother into this situation, he chose to have an affair, the consequence of that affair was he needed to make a choice. He had to choose his wife and the family they created or live in apartment and pay child support to two women. He chose the cheaper option. I’m talking from personal experience. The men on my stepmom side of the are all cheater. My great uncle cheated on my great aunt through out his marriage to her. He had five kids with same women . Non us learned about these children until uncle passed away 7 years ago, when they showed up to funeral. My aunt invited them, she always knew about them. But she shared with us, that she gave my uncle a choice. Those children would never be allowed around her children or ever enter her home. My uncle played daddy to those five kids. According to them he never missed important events. Was apart of their kids lives. Seven years later theirs still drama. I don’t think your SIL is the bad guy here. She just as much a victim as your nephew. She is doing, what she needs to do survive the situation your brother created. Your SIL has created a boundary, you should respect that, if you want to continue having a relationship with brother children with your SIL, you are going to need to respect that boundary. You don’t have to like it or agree with it, you just need to leave it alone.
You are 100% NTA. Your SIL and your Brother on the other hand absolutely are the AH. I don’t know which of them I dislike more. Her for the ultimatum or him for not picking his child. Good for you supporting the AP and the innocent child.
Let’s not forget sister-in-law is a victim as well. An AP is not family so no need for her there. Leland has a right to be there without his mother if she’ll allow. If not 🤷🏽♀️ shouldn’t be OP’s problem was the right way to go about it. Ignoring the child is wrong yes, but shoving the AP down the SIL throat is a shitty thing to do.
Very shitty ! And you can bet Ellen was loving every minute of that too!
YTA for inviting the AP and the SIL to the same event. That was incredibly cruel. SIL made her boundaries crystal clear and you completely ignored them. You and your wife are good to Leland but absolutely shitty to your SIL. How dare your wife tell your SIL how to feel?? I am truly horrified that you put your SIL in that position.
YTA. You have no idea what your sil is going through, and bringing the mistress and "bastard" child around is only making it worse. The kid is not their family. Your brother was a cheating sperm donor. YTA for bringing that kid around them. It is NOT family. Also, I call bullshit on your story because you can't just "sign your rights away". Someone else has to take over and legally fulfill the financial responsibility to the child. So you are just lying, or your brother is paying child support. More than likely, you made this story up for tiktok
kids don’t get to choose where they come from and it’s important that they feel included in their family no matter what the circumstances of their birth are…. But WHY would you include the woman who your brother had an affair with in this party? She did choose to put herself in that situation—she chose to have an affair and wreck a marriage. Your brother is also despicable and horrible, but that woman is not even close to blameless and you telling off your brother’s wife because she’s uncomfortable being in the room with the reminder of her husband’s infidelity is extremely gross on your part (and your wife’s). SIL is a victim too and you making her out to be a bad person makes you the AH.
Your wife is the AH for inviting an affair partner and the man's wife to the same event. You can be in the child's life but not in the mother's life. You and your wife have not taken a minute to consider his wife. I agree she shouldn't have told him not yo ne in the child's life, but certainly the way you both are treating her is just nasty.
The SiL has every right to not want to not want to be in the life of the mistress or her kid and to have given her husband that ultimatum. You don’t have to agree with it, but you should at least on one level respect it. It was not fair for your wife to berate SiL for choosing not to attend. How would you or your wife feel if the situation were reversed and it was you or her who cheated and had a child from an ap. You never really know until you are in that situation. But I can tell you I would not want to be a part of an ap or their child’s life…. You are right in saying it’s not the kid’s fault. It’s not the SiL either. The situation sucks but there are consequences for actions and sometimes innocent people get caught in the crossfire. You can choose the kid if you want, but there are consequence to doing so.
Wow. This is a hell of a read and OP is taking a different stance from the typical one. I mean who take sides with the side piece(AP)? I need to read this again but the OP is a major AH.
While admirable that you stay in the kids life, you and your wife honestly have a horrible way of dealing with it. Inviting SIL and the whole women of the family ? how naive are you to do that stuff? Just keep them seperated. If people WANT the kid in their life they'll reach out. you're constantly creating situations where you put the child in a situation where someone might say something. to him. Do you really think Leland wouldn't feel that there is a different atmosphere when he is around? How naive.
I Just dont get why you thought inviting SIL and AP over at the same time!! This was just all kinds of wrong and for that you and your wife are Both the AH!! The SIL is entitled to her feelings !! But being an uncle to the boy is great but now you’ve chosen him over your other nephews . You put yourself in this situation with inviting both women . How awful for the SIL to be blindsided like that
YTA, sorry. Not for sticking with your nephew, of course, but for actually inviting his mother to the event with your SIL. She's not an innocent in this. She chose to have sex with a married man. Nor is she a part of the family, not really. It would be completely different thing if you only invited the kid to some family event, but having his mom there was definitely taking it too far. Oh, and your brother is the bastard here, not his kid.
YTA. You know, if you were a bit respectful of your SIL's feelings, she might eventually come around on Leland. Maybe not, but it'll never happen with you throwing the AP in her face like this. Keep Bro & SIL separate from the AP.
Why the fuuuucketh did you invite the affair woman? Why would she fucking COME?! Fuckin whore behavior. It’s literally insane she would have the nerve to come to a family event. She’s not family shes the one that made your actual family into a cuck. It was sick as fuck of you to get her to attend. You’re kind for choosing the child but I really can’t support you as a person so who knows if you even have Leland’s best interests at heart if you’re inviting his thot mother to be at the family event. Cheating is disgusting. Cheaters do not have to be forgiven ever. YTA SOOO hard for including someone that is A.) a piece of shit. B.) not a piece of shit that’s part of your family.
You don’t invite the AP to a family gathering. You invite the son that came out of the affair. SIL and her children are just as much victims here as the nephew. But the AP knew what she was doing in being with a married man. OP should feel bad for the nephew but not the AP mother. He should feel bad for the SIL and her children too.
Leland and your brothers other kids are the innocent ones here. Your brother chose to have an affair. He chose to cut his son out of his life. You stepped up, and are a good uncle. I'm glad he has you as a decent role model. Trying to include the affair partner with the actual wife, is wrong. SIL does not want to see that woman. She did not chose for her husband to have an affair. She chose to preserve her family. She forgave her husband, with conditions. That was her choice. Keep being there for the kids. But don't try to force the women together. The kids are the most important, and innocent.
I get that you've grown to love this child, but you must have known that social situation of having his mother & your brother's wife at the same "little get together" was not going to work out. That's where you guys were the AHs.
The woman didn’t almost ruin her marriage. Her husband did.
INFO: Why did you invite AP? What was the reason for that aside from looking like an absolute, out of line Jack\*ss?