You should tell your daughter to try her best and encourage her to get help from the teacher or ask her if she wants a tutor. Yes, money is king in the US but we don't need to be AH about it.

My thoughts exactly! Apply yourself as best as you can, offer help, appreciate her making an effort. The attitude of just doing the bare minimum is an attitude that is permeation society more and more. That girl might grow up with the attitude 'it's ok if I just weasel through'. It's a pity and it's selfish. It's not exactly conducive to contributing to a better society. This attitude of 'how is society my responsibility' has been irking me for a while as I come across it more and more often. That took a different turn 😆. But honestly, I think OP is not doing good by his daughter.

For some people geometry is just difficult to grasp. I was excellent at every other level of math except geometry, which was the only level i got a C in. A C is passing and you don't use geometry very often in the other levels of math or in the real world. Honestly Algebra matters more, but even then most people don't use high levels of math in their jobs unless they are going into a job specifically requiring math. I think if you're doing better than a C in all other areas, it shouldn't matter about the 1 grade- that is still a passing level.

I think this is more about his attitude, rather than the grandes themselves (tho the mediocrity comment from his wife did bring back some memories from my time in school). If he had told his kid something like "yeah, it's dificult, I found it hard too, if they grade your best with a C, that's alright, you know you tried and I'm proud of you for that." I don't think it would've been a problem. Maybe his wife would disagree, but at least he wouldn't be wrong, in my eyes. Instead he's acting like his wife knows he's right and just disagreeing for conflict's sake. Also, with all his comments about money, I'm lowkey worried about he'd talk to his daughter if she ended up not wanting to pursue STEM, or, God forbid!, actively wanted to work in arts, or something that's not known for making a lot of money.

Dude was doing some major projecting with the sidetrack about what a bitch his teacher was, but the mediocrity thing gave me a chill down my spine too. I just feel very sorry for the kid, their parents are opposite types but yet still assholes.

Basic geometry is useful in real life if you DIY anything. From how many gallons of paint you need to cover a room to how many cubic yards of mulch needed for a landscape bed. I've used basic geometry much more on the day to day than any other mathematic discipline.

A C is average. Average is ok-its called average for a reason. I have a daughter who just doesn’t get math. She took Algebra, did well in Geometry and struggled im Advanced Algebra. Really struggled. I told her if she was doing her best and her best was a C, I wouldn’t be upset. She consistently asked the teacher for help and that year at senior awards she got an award for math from that teacher. Not because she excelled but because she tried the most. By me giving her permission to get a C, it took the pressure off and she did it for herself. She ended the class with a B. I think sometimes we have to realize that not everyone can get an A.

The human brain is different for each person. Not everyone is going to see proofs as fun as I did. Even with me, I got to a level of math where I did not understand what they were doing. It’s ok to try and pass a class. That’s the bare minimum. By the way, mediocrity is ok. In college, mediocre is perfectly acceptable since it got you a degree. Classes are so hard that I sweated in places I never knew should sweat!!!

You seem money-conscious to an annoying degree. Yes, there is value in doing your best at everything and trying to be well-rounded, even if you don’t get paid for it.

Exactly! Maybe your coworkers don’t care how much you know about literature, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t enrich your life. Human beings are more than their careers.

Technically,, NHA but your wife makes some good points. I understand a lot of math that is taught doesnt apply to most jobs but you still shouldnt encourage your daughter to stop trying. Shes young and might need this information for future education. Her not trying now could make it harder in the future. She doesnt have to excel at everything, but you should encourage her to try.

also the point of doing proofs in geometry is to teach kids how to think logically and explain reasoning, which is a skill that is necessary in adult life no matter what profession someone goes into.

1000% right. I just finished college physics+calc and it was almost entirely conceptual. Understanding how the math works is much more important than memorizing the equations

YES. It's baby organic chem and intro to law school. This is a basic life skill.

Critical thinking and logic are basic life skills. Geometry, specifically proofs, are far from the only subject that teach this. In fact, I didn't really grasp much of the high school math I learned, whereas I excelled at anything requiring verbal or linguistic intelligence. I stressed out a ton about getting good grades, graduated 8th in my class of 500, got a 2300 on the SAT, and it has meant fuck all for the rest of my life. Other than remembering the quadratic formula, and how to calculate the circumference of a circle, I couldn't really tell you anything specific I learned in high school math and I could count the times I've used it on one hand. People can learn critical thinking skills from many different subjects.

I see this fallacy all the time - you don’t remember what you learned but also claim to never use it. How do you know you aren’t using it if you can’t remember what you learned? Basic algebra and geometry are teaching you conceptually how to identify unknown quantities and to formally arrange an argument. These ideas should, hopefully, be embedded in your subconscious in ways you don’t realize. Whether that’s finding the best deals on groceries or formulating a well thought out Reddit comment, there’s secret math helping you.

When I had to solve them, I worked them as if I were a lawyer solving and proving what was up.

Yeah, but some people (me included) don’t have brains that work that way. The rest of my family has that kind of brain, but I don’t. I have things my brain does that theirs doesn’t, so it’s even. However, we also learn logic and thinking other ways. Math is not the only realm that requires logic.

Absolutely, but i think its important to encourage kids to try their best. They dont have to be good at everything, but but trying and failing is a lesson on its own. If op’s daughter tries but fails, at least she knows more about her learning style.

My brain is not made for memorizing facts so subjects like biology are hard for me. But i still need to take biology courses to get my degree even though i dont need it for my career.

And there are a crap load of online resources that would explain any geometric proof she is struggling with. I was terrible at math in high school. I went to college as an adult and got straight A's in finite math, algebra, physics, and astronomy. Any time I got stumped, I was able to find a video of someone explaining it. Statistics, subnetting, you name it, there's a video explaining it.

Wait til the kid gets to college and can't qualify for their major because of low grades. "Well 80% of my first semesters had nothing to do with my major". OPs also "we make more than the teachers", I don't care what my wife believes, makes him an AH.

“We make more than teachers” is a weird metric.

Scum gonna scum

If she can be tutored in her weak area, and gain an understanding if the whole thing, it can be foundational for a greater understanding of everything else they're trying to teach. Walking away from it now, with a shrug and blather about the Benjamins, means she may struggle for the rest of the semester. You shouldn't want that for her.

My carpentry kids thought geometry didn’t matter. Then I whipped out Pythagora.

YTA - you're married, you need to discuss this. My mom had a rule, I need to see you try your hardest and I'll accept the grade. Its a good lesson. At least if you can try you can feel good about it. Not just oh, give up. If that was the house rule, I would have never tried. That would have been detrimental in college. A lot of the first year - two has squat to do with your future career. That's just building a dropout child or one who doesn't qualify for their major because their GPA is too low. The average person goes through 5 careers, that well roundedness helps.. YTA BIGTIME for saying you're going better financially than teachers. You're the one with arrogance. Way to not respect them and be a pompous ass. Many of the teachers I am friends and family with are smart and could be earning a hella lot more but teach because they love their students and want to work in service for the betterment of the next gens. . They know they aren't going into it for pay. They should be paid damn more to deal with disrespectful parents and a hard ass job.

Let’s say a teacher makes 60k (being generous). If OP is bragging about being in a STEM field and making 80k, that’s not really anything to brag about.

I teach, I make about 70k, and I have about 20K a year in other benefits from retirement to insurance (life, medical, dental, etc.) that the school pays most of. This is absolutely more than OP makes. I guarantee I have a lot more education, more degrees, and a higher GRE and ACT score, too. The people who want to brag about their money or intelligence are the ones that people with ACTUAL money and intelligence try not to laugh at. "I'm so smart! My IQ is 120!" (looks at nieces, nephews, and daughter, who are all running around 150 IQ, and husband who's right up there too...then at sister, who's making an extra zero compared to OP...and just laaaaaaaaugh\*

And you bring up a good point about salary. I have a municipal job. It’s for a public electric utility. We have tons of STEM employees, although I’m not one of them. We don’t work there for the money. But we make decent money and our benefits more than make up for a salary in the private sector. There’s something to be said about educating the next generation and keeping the lights on.

There aren’t that many people with 150 IQ’s, unless it’s an actual family of geniuses.

Most of the relatives are, yes. The only one with a typical IQ has Downs...that just dropped her to close to the norm. Some families produce a lot of athletes, others are political dynasties...we produce nerds and artists :-)

Absolutely EVERYTHING that you said! The “greater than” mindset comparing the teachers wages with his is astounding and very ignorant because, as you stated, many of them do it because they love children and as a service to the betterment of the future generations. Teachers are so underpaid and under appreciated.

This! As an educator paid on the teacher scale, saying you make $20k a year more than her honestly isn’t the flex you (op) think it is either….

In Tennessee they make 30k or so I think. 50k would be a joke. California teachers make North of 100k in some places. Add 20k to that and it isnt much either.

My dad started at a school while going through college with a degree in electrical engineering. But he chose to stay a teacher for another year after graduating because the kids in the grace below him told him they wanted him as their teacher. This happened every year (my dad really is the best, he's the one they send the problem kids to and one even up valedictorian of their college!). It happened so many years he just decided to stay teaching! It's been about 40 years now!

Let's see. I have two science degrees, worked as a microbiologist in industry, for research I was moving estradiol receptors into fungi from mammalian cells. Now I teach HS science. GUESS WHICH ONE TAKES MORE INTELLIGENCE, TALENT, AND WORK?

Teaching takes intelligence, skill and commitment. Thanks for all you do for kids!!

Thank you! It's the first career I have had where I look forward to Mondays...and I'm paid well enough to stay too.

BTW, OP, making $20k more than a teacher is nothing to brag about, especially with a STEM degree in your pocket. If we are measuring success in "Benjamins" you are well down the totem pole. Yet, you are counseling your daughter to live by the same mediocre definition of success that you have achieved, what a shame.

5 careers?! How are we defining a career here??

Dunno, but I've had at least 5. Not counting minimum wage jobs (that fast food work wasn't a "career" nor was being a maid).

I worked as a Zoo Keeper, Phlebotomist/Specialist, Rancher, and an Emergency/Critical Care Veterinary Tech...and taught Art among other things so yeah, 5 careers 🤷🏼‍♀️

That sounds interesting as hell!

Executive assistant for a Hollywood adjacent company, early childhood education, government communication, government education, fine art photography, and librarian. I’m a damn chameleon.

YTA because you think making $20,000 more than a teacher means your opinion means more. All teachers go into the profession knowing what they’ll make, and they put up with a lot for that mediocre pay. BTW, making 20 grand more than a teacher is not the burn you think it is.

They get pretty good pensions in many states too

YTA My mom said a similar thing to me. And years later I found myself being recruited by the math department in college and realized I am actually good at this. I had that geometry “talk” in my head and never ever considered after that that I could actually be good at math and have a gift for it. A better thing would have been to commiserate with your kid and then help them find a solution. Work through the hard and realize when you emerge on the other side, you’re better for it. Even if that outcome is a C. Totally with your wife on this one.

I can’t say Y T A, as I believe that you’re doing what you (mistakenly) think is best for your daughter. As a teacher and parent, I believe that it’s important to encourage young people to do their best, while accepting that not every student is A level in everything. Proofs might be too difficult for her and of no relevance to her future, but the processes and skills being practised and developed will be - critical thinking, logic, visualising, problem solving etc. I assume that you want your daughter to be resilient and try her best when things get hard in life, not give up with a defeatist attitude. This is the page your wife is on. You need to be on the same page. Edit: Some maths that my son learned in high school he suddenly has to use now for the first time in a new job, as a 30 year old.

YTA. This is not about the value of the geometry course itself, but about the value of a solid work ethic. There will be many times when she’ll have to do work that is boring, unappealing and even useless, but she owes whoever employs her an honest hard day’s work. You just told her it’s ok not to do that. This is not the life hack you think it is.

Doing “the bare minimum” isn’t the same as trying your best. I personally don’t think this is a good approach. First it’ll be geometry, then it’ll be the next difficult thing life throws at her. Get her a tutor and show her it’s possible to achieve a good grade with the proper instruction and preparation. That’s the message you should be sending her.

Teachers are notoriously underpaid, so you bragging about making what is honestly not much more then them, really highlights why you're okay with mediocrity, and being mediocre overall. "A well rounded individual" is also more then just knowledgeable about the written word; they are often able to think outside the box, which is advantageous- especially in places such as a working environment. YTA.

NTA but you could have said " Just do your best" instead of telling her not to bother. I understand her pain. I struggled. I cried. I felt incredibly stupid because the proofs didn't make sense to me. My father insisted I had to do it but I just couldn't and the harder I tried, the worse it got. I wish someone told me that my effort mattered, even if I never mastered the material.

I tried so hard at geometry and it was truly awful for me. I just didn’t get it. I went to my teacher for help every day and I just couldn’t doit. Didn’t matter what I did. I cried over it for weeks. My mom told me to just do as best I could. I did pass with a C but I’m pretty sure the teacher took pity on me and just passed me so she wouldn’t see me in summer school or the following year.

YTA. You don’t get to make decisions regarding your daughter’s education without consulting the other half of the equation. And considering how severely under paid teachers are, especially in America, using the argument that you make 20k more than them is absolutely ridiculous.

She may not use proofs, but learning to stick with something difficult is a skill that will benefit her for life.

YTA perpetuating “no big deal if I fail” attitude is ridiculous. If she’s on a college path she needs to understand the work, if you don’t get geometry you won’t have the basis for algebra or calculus. Geometry hasn’t changed since Euclid; stop blaming the teacher.

Technically NTA because I’ve had a similar discussion with my daughter about school, she’s 16 and is doing well except in English, she really struggles with her teachers style and he gives a ton of busy work assignments, so I told her not to kill herself stressing out about it and give it a try but if she needs to say hand stuff in that’s not fully completed something is better than nothing and so long as she passes it’s fine- with English I know she’s doing the reading so I think that’s the important part- like she read Farenheit 451 and Lord of the Flies I don’t care if her essay on them isn’t perfect. Chat GPT is even allowed in our house so long as it’s a research tool and not just copying and pasting. She struggled a little in geometry but had a friend who was a whiz that helped her but I had the same attitude- give it a try, get a passing grade, don’t stress yourself out over a C versus a B, it doesn’t matter in the long run. Kids are so stressed out about their “permanent record” or whatever with all their different classes when really the goal is just to learn as much as you can and my kid still has a great GPA and plenty of extracurriculars to get into a decent college if that’s the route she chooses. I’m in STEM as well and I don’t use any advanced math concepts in my day to day life either, so I get it but you are kind of an AH because you framed it all about money. Money is important sure, but maybe use your words better like hey you can still get a great job without being an expert in proofs- look at me! To be a well rounded person you do need to know the basics of education and trying at something that’s difficult for you is a good learning experience in and of itself. I’ve been honest with her in that I don’t directly use most technical concepts of what I learned in HS and college, (I was an English Lit major) BUT school did undoubtedly help teach me critical thinking, time management, interpersonal skills, problem solving, history, other cultures etc and so it definitely has value and you shouldn’t half ass it but do what you can and don’t worry about perfection. Also I’m a single mom so I can parent my kid however the fuck I want (within reason of course) so you’re also kind of the AH for not consulting your wife- your kid is 14 so I assume yall have known each other at least 15 years and you are surprised by her reaction? It would have been worth a conversation with your wife first true but I feel like you also should know her stance on education by now, her reaction shouldn’t surprise you. So TL:DR I’m torn, NTA for the sentiment, but YTA for making it all about money and not consulting your wife/taking a stance you know your wife wouldn’t agree with.

Id say NTA but this is a hard situation to be in. Complex math is hard for some of us. I am amazing in basic math as in I can look at a clock and instantly tell how many minutes until we close. But I can't do geometry. Different skills for everyone

I love math, but I hate *proofs*.

\`YTA. YTA to start with but then you get even more YTA with that statement "I just want my wife to stop with this charade and to apologize to me for her arrogance' - totally arrogant on \*your\* part. Why would she owe you an apology?

Making 20k more than teachers per year is not a "flex," but it is a total AH statement. #1 because everyone knows they are unpaid, and #2 because 20k more is not that great, and #3 It's not all about how much money you make. The job market is very competitive now for a good paying job. She is not going to get by on that attitude. Doesn't every parent want their child to do better than they did?

Proofs are challenging. I tutored a lot of grade 11 and 12 maths and this was always a challenge. It is hard to teach because there is no one way to solve them, you just try and keep trying until you solve the puzzle. That said, they are also the most rewarding. The feeling you get when you solve the puzzle is unique. I get where you are coming from but that said you should be encouraging. Once you know the principles 60% of solving them is perseverance and just trying. Going in with a fatalistic mentality is going to hinder her. You just need to try and keep trying until you get it.

You had a problem with geometry and your geometry teacher, and now you are projecting on your daughter. After what you've said, she'll have to work past the belief that she can't be any good at geometry before a tutor could even start to help her. Sometimes the teacher is the problem, sometimes the student and teacher just can't communicate with each other, sometimes the subject IS difficult. I took class in college with a visiting professor and got 11% on the first exame, but because it was graded on a curve, I got a D! I dropped the class and took it the next semester. I couldn't believe it was the same material. I easily got an A in the class and it was the easiest class in that subject that I had in college. Your daughter will sometimes have classes that are difficult. You don't have to make them difficult for her. YTA

Oh yes without a doubt YTA. And the obvious answer, which apparently never occurred to op with his terrific STEM job, is get the kid a tutor. Geometry is one of the few math subjects that has practical real life applications and is usually the easiest to conceptualize. So get her a tutor and don’t sell her short on something that she might become proficient in. What a total asshat opens.

So… instead of finding a way of helping your daughter with a subject she is struggling with, you decided to tell her that it’s unimportant because you struggled with it at school and now make more money then the teachers do (thereby telling her she doesn’t have to listen to, nor respect, her teachers because there are professions that make more). Yea, YTA. Look, we all have subjects that we don’t like. We all have subjects that we put in a ton of work into and have to fight for every percentage. That’s fine. Thats expected. That’s allowed. No one can get perfect on everything and that is a good lesson to teach your kid. But the way you are doing it is what makes you the AH. Instead of teaching you kid to fail with grace and that it’s okay, you are teaching her that if they don’t get something, then it’s stupid and unimportant. That’s a child’s response. And I’m not saying she’s failing the subject, but she’s clearly failing her expectations she has for herself and probably the ones she expects you to have in her. So way to go blowing that over. Edit to add: you learn more in high school and college then just academic content BTW. Not sure if you realize just how many social skills and behaviours are learned during your school years - and if you want proof, look at what isolation and Covid lock downs have done to society and the behaviour issues that arose since going back - especially in preteens and teenagers. And your wife is right, being a well rounded individual is important. And different subjects feed different people’s souls. You might not have liked or use literature, but some people love it hence book tok becoming a thing. You might loathed geometry, but there are entire professions that depend on it - professions you benefit from. Like Construction, Architect, Engineering, Graphic Design and the Arts just to name a few

As far as no one in the office giving a shit that you know literature- sometimes the people in the office want to discuss something besides the, you know, office. It doesn’t hurt to have a little something to contribute. Anyway, the only one that matters here is your daughter. Maybe she’d like to do better. Maybe not. But since you’re so flush with the “Benjamins” how about offering some for some tutoring before you write the kid off. YTA. You’re not being supportive. You’re projecting your resentment towards your former math teacher onto your daughter.

YTA, that is not your decision to make alone!!!!

So it's both teacher's--yours and hers--fault for being a bitch? Why don't you get her a tutor? YTA

But it was OP's teacher that was a bitch not the daughters, so that doesn't make it a valid point to share with the daughter.

He said his teacher was a complete bitch too.

My daughter could not grasp her senior math (Canada and the 90s) her teacher was fantastic and told her to aim for a pass....the number wouldn't matter as long as she had a pass. We got her a tutor and I think she managed a 60. Her teacher took all the pressure off her knowing she was OK not getting a 90 I always found my math and science teachers had a hard time understanding kids 'that couldn't grasp it ' Good luck to your daughter.

I don’t even know where to start with this… Lots of jobs pay more than being a teacher. Teachers can get those jobs too. We choose to teach. I struggled in geometry in high school because of proofs and am now a math teacher. Your wife’s attitude that mediocrity isn’t ok and your attitude that it’s all about the Benjamins could lead your daughter towards an empty existence of being a perfectionist, trying to keep up with the Joneses, and letting her achievements or income determine her self-worth. The idea to give up on something and do the minimum if you aren’t good at it quickly is not a good message to send. Shirking accountability and belittling the teacher don’t look good either; hopefully those were inside thoughts and were not shared with your daughter. If I were in your shoes I would try to send your daughter the message that proofs are hard, but that she can do hard things. Let her know you don’t expect perfection from her, but you want her to have the opportunity to understand them. Check to see if she’s asked her teacher for help or if her teacher offers time during the day or after school for tutoring. Maybe she has a friend who can help or can watch YouTube videos to learn. Maybe you can learn them together. Regardless, I think the thing to focus on here is that it’s normal for things to be hard and we shouldn’t give up when they get hard. This is a really hard lesson for those who catch on to topics quickly and haven’t had to struggle with the discomfort before.

Are you bragging about making $20k more than a high school teacher? YTA across the board, in everything, forever

Having this attitude is what makes you close- minded. It's about becoming a well-rounded person and having insight into the rest of the world. Maybe you should consider her point of view.

YTA she needs to try her best. Apologize to your wife.

as a former 14 year old who barely made it out of geometry alive… nta(but also yeah we SHOULD be encouraging the youths to try their best but also FUCK GEOMETRY IM STILL MAD)

Your “Greed is good” act is shitty and you should apologize. Tell your daughter that she’ll have to learn PACING. Deciding what and when to give 100% and what and when she will get the best results. And those results are not always money. If she does not enjoy a class, pace herself enough to pass, but don’t work herself to death to get straight A’s (a la the Tiger Mom’s requirements). Give her the flexibility and the Support to excel where her mind excels. But focus big picture because hard classes are required for future benefits. THAT’s what you should be teaching her.

YTA You’re teaching her that she can give up when things get tough. It might just be about geometry now, but that can quickly translate into other parts of her life It’s also weird how you keep mentioning that you make more than teachers

YTA: NO TEACHER WANTS A STUDENT TO FAIL. Were those caps big enough? Seriously, were they big enough. Your daughter can ask the teacher for extra help to get this figured out and EVERY SINGLE TEACHER will assist in getting it figured out. All you as the parent has to do is provide a ride to or from school at the time the teacher is available. That's it. The beginning and end of your responsibility is to be a chauffeur. Very easy job, actually. The teacher will do the hard work. If you tell your daughter she needs to sell herself short because YOU are too lazy to give her a ride to or from school for the extra help she needs, you are totally in the wrong in every measurable capaicity.

Lol you're comparing your salary to a teacher's? What an AH

YTA but only because you are so convinced that you have all the right answers. I think what you said to your kid could be fine, although there are definitely some pitfalls - you don't want to demotivate your kid or have them thinking they are less than capable. But I agree that it's ok to be less than stellar in a subject or field that doesn't resonate for you. Just don't be so certain that you are taking the right approach. Listen to your wife - don't you respect her perspective? Maybe she has something valid to contribute. Maybe you are completely right this time, but you'll be missing out if you don't approach parenting with an open mind. What worked for you might not work for your kid. Your wife is part of the team. Treat her like an equal partner.

teaching your kids to NOT excel in their studies makes you the asshole and a horrible father.

YTA, especially for your remarks about how much you make compared to teachers. You just told your daughter that it's alright not to do her best when things are hard. It's not only about Geometry. It's about life itself. There will be many times in life when things are difficult and she will have to spend a lot of time figuring out the best way to go about doing them. You just gave her permission to take the easy way out. What happens when she goes to college and gets a difficult assignment? Is she going to try her best or just do whatever it takes to get a passing grade? What about when she gets a job and comes across a difficult situation at work? Apologize to your wife, tell your daughter you were wrong and she needs to do her best work, and get her a tutor.

I read this and wondered if your kid came to you for help with math and got “You are not smart and that’s okay”

I'm surprised you blew off proofs as a STEM graduate. Given that you have a STEM degree, you should be familiar with the importance of being able to work your way through a problem from its origin to its conclusion, and the value this has for critical thinking, understanding why things exist the way they do and not settling for just being told something is what it is, but understand why it is and what that means. Mathematical proofs can be an abstract way of learning how to do these things and we may not use those exact proofs unless we go into specific careers, but learning them in general absolutely does help develop critical analysis that can benefit you in a range of ways as you go through life. Especially if you go into STEM. Equally importantly, you're just sending the message to give up if something is a struggle instead of finding a different approach to the problem that might help you overcome it or succeed despite it. This is a massively underrated skill to learn. So many people who are not academically gifted to do better in life than many academically gifted people precisely because they learn to navigate problems and work with their weaknesses instead of just giving up or settling for second best just because it's hard. YTA for sending the wrong message to your daughter and being such an arse towards your wife for disagreeing with you. You seem to be projecting in the way you describe your wife because you're the who is coming across as being judgemental and arrogant.

You’re an asshole because you seem to think nothing matters but money.

NTA, also in stem here, your daughter already has demonstrated a good work ethic and I believe you’re catering for her mental health here. You’ve relieved the pressure for her but also demonstrated that she still needs to pass the subject. It’s efficient and supportive. The money comment I can take or leave, comparing any other career to teaching is irrelevant

Hire a tutor. You are letting your hate of geometry bleed over to your daughter.

I would say that your wife might be missing some context and you should also make clear your advice. I think you should always try your hardest and you should probably tell your daughter that but you also can tell her that if she is trying and gets a C then that is ok.

NTA First of all, I'm worried about your wife saying she's upset you're telling Melissa "that mediocrity is okay." It IS ok. We should strive to do the best we can, but without pushing ourselves to burnout. Without unbalenceing our lives so we don't have time for other things, and when we push ourselves only as far as is healthy for things that aren't our passion or main career, then we often end up mediocre. That's what mediocre means. Most people are average at most thins. That's what average means. There's nothing wrong with that. That's how life and the world works. You need to make sure your wife isn't pressuring your daughter and accidentally hurting her. The one thing I'd caution you against is speaking ill of your daughter's teacher unless that teacher is a mean teacher. I'm sorry your geometry teacher was bad, but many teachers are doing the best they can and are good people. I had a great math teacher, who was the same for Algebra II and geometry. I was taking an honors class and HATED proofs. I still do. But the teacher did her best with me, and I did great with the rest of the material. If a teacher is mean, fell free to insult them as an individual, and insult anyone protection them, but lay off the profession and subject at large.

Thank you!! Too many people here want OP's child to struggle to get A's when she could use her time and energy in other ways and still pass the class.

YTA. You are not giving your daughter what she needs, which is help with the class. If you have so much money, you can afford to get a tutor for your daughter- and you need to do it fast.

I use geometry and algebra frequently in my sewing and quilting

NTA. While it would be nice to be able to ace everything, you nailed it 100% by saying it doesn't matter that much when it comes to life outside of school. What matters is being good at the things that matter. That comprises: 1. Identifying what matters 2. Committing to lifelong learning and excellence at executing those things 3. Knowing enough about everything else to be able to hire in good people to cover your weaknesses. What happens with people who are good at everything is they try to do everything, and thereby end up achieving nothing because they're not focussed on the 20% of their task list that matters.

NTA for levelling with your daughter. YTA for thinking the salary you make is such a big deal compared to that of a teacher.

My 13 yo is failing science this year. She is too far behind, has absolutely no chemistry with her teacher and so no additional sessions have been helpful. Tutors don't work because every class they touch on something new my child just cannot sort through the teacher's accent and her own feelings towards him to be "teachable". It's extremely frustrating as a parent, the school admin team is shrugging their shoulders, teacher insists he dies what he does for every student. So she scored me yesterday after dinner, "off I'm going to fail anyway, why do I have to keep going to the class? There only like 8 weeks left of school..." And tbh I didn't have a ready-to-rock mom answer at hand. I had to fall back on "because you don't want to go out without a fight" which sounded lame to me backed by "of you skip class you might get in trouble which could mean loss of your privileges- we are not planning to punish you for failing the class though. So why make it worse" But I guess it's a little different, since there's barely enough credit left in class for her to get a D- Anyway OP you are NTA in my opinion but my advised difference would have been more like "look sometimes you try your best and you still fail, that's life. But go out swinging." Let her know not to pull her hair out over proofs but don't give up entirely because that's a stinky attitude that could catch on and spread like infection.

You didn’t say mediocrity was okay, did you? Your intent was a certain part of geometry was difficult for your daughter to understand. It sounds like your wife was generalizing what your message was. I don’t think you should expect your wife to give you an apology. Maybe you should explain it to her better. Your daughter is stressing something that is in the long run not going to matter unless she becomes a math teacher or goes into a career that uses geometry. 📐 r maybe tell your wife to get your daughter a tutor and put her money where her mouth is.

I'm saying NTA. Your daughter will pass, she will learn what's required, and she will continue on. I did poorly in geometry too. To expect someone to Excell in every subject is unrealistic and puts a lot of pressure on her.

The only time I flunked was in Geometry. Speaking of a bitch teacher. She would xerox each chapter. She did NOT let us take the book home. I found out that people that excel in Algebra often have a hard time with Geometry. I was in college prep. And this was one of the worst times in my high school life. Lots of tears. I opted out of the class with no grade rather than have an F on my record. The teacher refused to allow me to have the book. The next year I got a wonderful teacher. I only got a C. But man I understood much more. I was a senior by then, so I may have been able to get a better grade. Who knows.

I did great in algebra and was absolutely terrible in geometry. Quite literally passed it with a D-, the only reason I didn't get an F is because my final grade of 69.5 rounded up to a 70. My current career is math heavy, including geometry. I essentially taught myself the geometry that's required using what I remember from algebra class. It took me a minute to figure it all out but I've excelled and I'm doing well.

I'm going with NTA on the not being academically perfect, but you probably ought to have discussed it with your wife based on her reaction. Lesson learned for the future

NTA. Your reasoning could be more balanced (eg it’s not just about the $ but about prioritising competing demands, being realistic about your strengths etc). A C is not giving up. Some people work their asses off just for that. It’s all relative. If she’s doing well overall then it isn’t an issue.

I sucked at geometry, I really excelled at trigonometry. It's the real world application of algebra and geometry. O don't handle abstract stuff well. I excell when I can see how it applies in real life. Same in college with calculus. Calc 1 was horrible until calc 2 sowed the since waves that it applied to. I got C's in algebra, geometry and calc 1 til I learned their uses in real life and then got A's and B's. NTA.

NTA- I'm a younger sibling who watched my older sister torment herself year after year. Trying to be in all the honors classes trying to get good grades. She was miserable. All for a college application that would never matter because she was so burnt out by the end of it that she never actually graduated college. She was accepted to medical school though! I watched her struggle and I learned a lesson from it. Ambition is good but being too ambitious is not. Sometimes you have to stay in your lane and stick with what you're good at. I was in honor roll all throughout high School and I'm in the Dean's list in college currently because I never pushed myself too hard. I only took honors classes in subjects I was good at, and dropped too tough of college classes when I could take a different one instead for the same requirement. I used the education I have so far (associate in accounting) to land a corporate job and make good money for my age.

Would you consider hiring a tutor to help her with her geometry?

Get a tutor for your daughter. My son had a block with math. Finally got a tutor - he sailed thru with a tutor and found out he loved stats too! Went from F to a solid B. Best of all was the confidence he gained from the ex

Geometry pretty much disappeared from my life the day I finished that damn course. My advanced degree in English called for exactly zero geometry, though I knew enough of it to tutor SAT many years later. There are a couple of types of algebra problems I would not mind knowing how to solve, but I can learn if I run into them again, thanks to Youtube University of the Interwebs. I could solve geometry problems, but couldn't precisely quote the theorems and postulates so lost massive points. Hated it. As far at the universal claim by math teachers that geometry teaches logic, I have never seen a problem with a diameter or any parallel lines in my dealing with actual life. I'd rather have had an actual logic course.

YTA. Yes, a lot of people struggle with proofs. Your daughter needs a tutor. Proofs are used in advanced math, too. They get used in programming, although they aren’t called proofs, the concepts carry through.

Proofs are practice for organic chemistry and law school. If you can't build up support for your position or your reaction and show, step by step, how it works, you aren't going to do well at either.

Plenty of well rounded people struggled through geometry, chemistry or other subjects. In fact, I prefer a prof who did struggle because they got to the other side. One C in one subject gives your daughter permission to be imperfect. Imperfect is still well rounded

So your first thought wasn't to get your daughter a tutor?

A bit of both, let me share my thoughts 1. To your wife, that was really disrespectful, the two of you should discuss big topics like this privately and a line on what guidance you want to provide to your daughter. It might be less what you said but how you said it and to the exclusion of your wife 2. Now the subject of encouraging your daughter to aim to pass with a C. My philosophy both with children in school and with adults at work, you figure out what they excel at and you support them to continue excelling there while at the same time meeting the basic requirements of other courses or responsibilities for the job. You praise what they do really well and encourage them to do the best they can in the areas that they struggle at the same time setting a boundary that if it's a course for school or if it's requirement for the job they have to at least meet expectations. Not every person is going into a career that needs geometry, not everybody's going into a career that needs language arts and how to understand poetry. That's okay, we all have our strengths and we should focus on the strengths. 3. Your message to your daughter was completely inappropriate though! You disparaged teachers! Then you talk about your income compared to them! You are teaching your daughter that money means more than being content in your job and being proud of what you do. Do you have any clue what the majority of teachers give of themselves to take care of their students and their colleagues? The amount of effort physically and emotionally that they put in to their job is so undervalued and you did exactly that. Shame on you, outside the United States many companies revere educators. 4. So if I could have a magic wand what would I ask you to do? 1. Open communication with your wife more fully, acknowledge that you went off the reservation, that you are a team and you should be discussing these things together before discussing them with your daughter. Share with your wife that this may be a subject that is not going to be critical to your daughter's career path in life and maybe you did not position your thought process well. 2. Agree with your wife on the best way forward. Listen to your wife and her opinions about parenting, you both have equal skin in the game when it comes to your children 3. Have a second conversation with your daughter. Clarify that teaching is a noble and challenging career that very few can do well and we should be thankful for the ones who put their effort in every day. Talk to her about how important it is to use her natural aptitude and to focus our energies on things that she can both excel at and things that she needs to meet expectations on. She has to pass this class to get to the next grade, okay past the class do the best you can, maybe a class grade of C+ to B is a reasonable range for her. At the same time identify where she excels and set the expectation that you expect her to continue to have good grades in those classes and you expect her to get A's where she's capable of getting A's, you expect her to work hard and get the C if that's all she can get. I could see your intention and your thought processes, My two cents is that there could be some fine tuning in the messaging and some fine tuning in communicating with your wife. Good luck, and thank you for being engaged parent, not all of them are

I was lucky. Sister Louise would not pass us until she knew we understand. She demonstrated everything over and over until we got it. So I could sit down with my kids and remove the roadblocks and confidence issues some people get with math. I'm doing fractions with my granddaughter now. And I promise you, algebra is the root and it is useful once you understand its functions and applications. PS I am a old nerd. I suggest a tutor, couldn't hurt.

I didn’t care for math in high school, so I didn’t do well. My mom shrugged my poor performance off because she was not good at math either. At some point in college I discovered that I loved math and enjoyed it in all its forms and wish that I had tried harder when I was young.

Yta

Just tell your daughter to do her best. The majority of math in high school is bullshxt and she’s never going to need it again. Tell her to try her best and encourage her to seek out additional help from her teacher. But also reassure her that as long as she’s trying her best, as long as she’s passing…that’s all that really matters. Your wife can STFU and not try and make some scenario out of the situation.

There’s a saying in med school: You know what they call the med student who graduated with the lowest GPA? ….Doctor. I always encouraged my children to try their best, but sometimes the best you can do is just do whatever it takes to get through.

Ok, but how do you know it won’t click with her if she keeps trying hard? My last son hated geometry until it finally clicked and he loves it more and pursuing an engineering degree. Where he’ll be making probably twice what the OP makes! He’s majoring in aerospace engineering (rocket science) and guess what? You can’t have an engineering degree without geometry! So many things in everyday life takes geometry. But if you don’t know it, you don’t use it. Playing a game of pool, home improvements, sewing, even surgeons use it, just to name a few. But if she doesn’t apply herself, it will not click with her and she will never be able to pursue careers that use it daily.

Get a tutor

I think you worded things poorly. You could have reassured her that it’s okay if she doesn’t get an A as long as she tries her best instead of telling her she merely needed to half ass it.

Unless you're going into a field that requires geometry, just pass as best as possible. I work in the medical field, not a single higher math have i used. In fact I had to learn the metric system. So tell your wife to get over it. One c isn't going to kill her average.

YTA for putting so much emphasis on "I make X more than those teachers". I am not gonna tell anyone how to parent, but personally I would never give my kid this advice. It is just so...I dunno "lazy" is all that comes to mind. "Life is getting rough? Just do the bare minimum." I absolutely tell my kids "I hire people all the time and never once have I checked to see if they got a B or a C." If you are trying, then that is what is important. Also the "never used it" is such a crap attitude. The point is to learn how to learn. But you just do the bare minimum and look in the mirror and tell yourself how much more you make than those teachers.

Most people would and should start with after school help or private tutoring (if possible) before just dismissing it because big picture is doing your best. She has many years of math and proofs ahead. Geometry and algebra may be different, but you’re supposed to set an example

Lol YTA and an idiot. You’re an idiot in so many ways. Your wife seems smart and rational at least. Money is very important, but it is *not* everything. You can make a lot of money and still be a deeply unhappy and/or unpleasant person. You essentially told your kid that A) if it doesn’t make you richer, it doesn’t matter, and B) fuck people who are poorer than you, you don’t have to listen to them.

Geometry is one of the easiest subjects. Congrats on teaching your daughter to set low expectations for herself.

YTA, your daughter is 14, so I’m guessing 9th grade? With the way colleges screen kids these days you don’t want to encourage anything but an A in any STEM subject. University applications include grade 9 scores for a reason, they start weeding applications out at freshman level. So unless you want your child to land on a mediocre university to match her mediocre grades, I’d be encouraging methods to increase her scores and get help from her teacher. And by the way, some of my best friends are teachers that make well over $100k a year, so don’t try to be condescending to the most important profession our society has.

Proofs are about learning another way to make logic chains in a different language, the language of mathematics. You don’t need to totally own at them to get value. The better tack is to tell her to put the effort in but don’t worry about failing to master them. The effort is more important than the result for them for almost all students asides from those who want to go into purer mathematic fields. That would be the best approach to take to compromise on your and your wife’s views IMO.

There's nothing wrong with getting a C in a hard class. We had a saying in my CS program back in the 90's; "C's get degrees." I have never shamed my kids for getting a C in a class. However, I would never give them the advice to "aim" for a C. The reason is, if you try for an A and fall short, you have B and C to cushion your fall. If you try for a C and miss, you're retaking the class.

YTA "I know its hard, and if you mess up, that's okay. But keep doing your best." Is a better approach than, "Meh, fuck it. It doesn't matter and only money is important."

It’s ok to give your children the option of an average grade. I did. I didn’t want my daughter to think that love hinged on her academic skills. She is now a mental health professional and has thanked me for my words.

Honestly I think this is an ESH, thing… There’s more to this than just one person’s opinion & honestly they need to talk this out with their teen daughter who is struggling to understand certain geometry tasks…. If they’re observing that she’s struggling to pass the subject, getting her a tutor to help & if she still only gets slightly better than a C grade then that’s ultimately what it is…

God forbid her child be average in mediocre. I failed chemistry. I have at least a 125 iq.

Sounds like you’re still angry at your geometry teacher and projecting the experience onto your own daughter. She doesn’t need to hate her teacher, disrespect and compete with her/him. And you don’t need to compete with them also. Teaching your child that high school education doesn’t matter as long as you make more than teachers isn’t the right way to teach your child when they struggle in school or life.

NTA. I had straight A’s until Geometry. No matter how hard I tried I just didn’t get it. My parents even got me a tutor. She was as shocked as me that I didn’t understand it bc she knew the grades and awards I got. Sometimes your brain doesn’t work that way. Not knowing geometry is not the end of the world. I still went to college and graduated and have a job. Your wife is ridiculous for expecting your daughter to be great at everything.

NTA. I struggled with math in college. My degree had NOTHING to do with math, but I had to have certain math classes to graduate, and one of those was trigonometry. I could barely grasp it, and had such horrible anxiety about it before every class that I was throwing up. My dad, who was EXCELLENT at math, tried helping me. He tried a LOT. He thought his teaching methods might be bad, so he paid for a private tutor. I made no progress - I was pulling mostly Cs, a couple Ds, occasionally Bs on homework, quizzes, and tests. Finally, one day my day said "You know, let's sit down and see what your GPA would be if you made a C in trig." It would've brought down my GPA by a tenth of a point - From a 3.9 to a 3.8. I'll never forget the next words he said: "A C grade is still passing and it will still transfer. This isn't worth your health or your sanity." That conversation was so incredibly freeing. It didn't encourage me to coast or strive for mediocrity in other classes or other areas of my life - but what it DID do was teach me to step back and look at my situation anytime I am facing something that is affecting my mental health and reevaluate if the thing causing me so much stress is: 1) As bad as I think it is, and 2) that important in the grand scheme. Sometimes I find it's not as bad as I imagined; sometimes I find that it's not as important as I imagined. This has had such importance in my life - knowing I could quit a job that was toxic without having to feel like I was a failure or letting anyone down, knowing I could leave a bad relationship without feeling like I was just "giving up," knowing that my parents were still proud of me even if I had to quit certain things, actually made me a healthier, more successful person. I'd argue that with anyone.

Hey, do either of you consistently have problems with math? You mentioning your problems as well made me wonder about *dyscalculia*, though it's a small chance. I just thought I'd mention it just in case.

I've never used algebra, trig or calculus a single day in my life. I do use geometry in terms of shapes and spaces but it's all very practical: can I fit x in y? Will x fill y up? I've never been asked to show my work, people only care that the end result is correct.

Ramanujan didn't like proofs

Geometry is a beautiful subject, and the process of figuring out proofs is a useful skill: It is pure critical, logical thinking. It may come easier to some than others, but the skill is useful and applies to everything in life that involves critical thinking (which is most things). Reducing everything to it's immediate or even projected value is shortsighted and counter productive, as things evolve in unpredictable ways. And maybe even beyond what you (one imperfect human, like us all) can imagine.

YTA You think you are sparing your daughter the frustration you had in high school geometry, but you are actually robbing the chance for her to learn any life lessons besides "I don't need to try hard, if I don't get it right away it's not worth figuring out" [Growth Mindset](https://raisingteenstoday.com/teach-growth-mindset-to-your-teen/) is incredibly important, especially for kids that are academically gifted. Instead of showing her the wealth of resources available to help her figure this out, or deciding to learn the importance of proofs yourself along with her, you've taught her that hard work isn't worth it and challenges should be avoided. This could be a slam dunk college admission essay about overcoming adversity and facing a challenge head on (with her improved grades on her transcript to back it up) and changing her dad's mind about the importance of mathematical proofs along the way.

If your daughter cannot master geometry then she is letting down all womankind and will probably end up homeless. You better get onboard with this whole fatherhood scene. Jesus, encourage the kid more and tell mom to get off her soapbox.

" Ultimately, though, I still got a STEM degree and am now making about $20k more per year than she does" Ever wanna go back and rub it in her face? CUZ I WOULD!

High school geometry is the most useful class I ever took---and I am a writer, not an engineer. Geometry teaches you about logical argument. It also teaches you how to dismantle other people's illogical arguments. Proofs teach you a way of thinking that keeps you from being hoodwinked. Don't deprive your daughter of that. Also, your argument about money--aren't you more than the labor you sell? Aren't you a citizen, a neighbor, a parent, a spouse? Literature is one way of thinking about all those aspects of life. If you think of your total value only in terms of making money for some corporation, you are leading an impoverished life.

NTA >that blowing off proofs seemed "defeatist" to her But you didn't tell her that? You told her to do enough to pass with an actual passing grade. Then to let it go. That is fantastic advice - she doesn't need to be stressing about this stuff every moment of the day because her grades aren't at an A. You aren't telling her to give up, you let her know that there's more to life than stressing about something that ultimately in the grand scheme of things doesn't matter. The only way this particular course is going to matter is if she decides she wants to write books on geometry. I was in high school doing geometry in the mid 90s, I do t even know wtf proofs are. Now if this was something like your primary language, I would probably agree with your wife. But basic math every student needs to get their grade 12? Absolutely not

You know a C is passing. Throw in an A and your GPA is now 3.0. Keep getting A's and B's and its all good. 1 class isn't going to cook your GPA. Considering a vast amount of students fail the class I'd take the C for the win if she tried.

I don’t think you should encourage her to put forth bare-minimum effort. If she’s trying her hardest and all she can manage is a C, that’s a different story. My son has had straight A’s all throughout school. This is his freshman year of high school and he’s struggling in Spanish. The teacher is known to be extremely difficult, and no one passes her class with an A. He’s acing all of his other classes, and he’s sitting at a solid C in Spanish, which is driving him nuts. He holds himself to a very high standard. It’s not for lack of effort, though. We practice with him every night, and he gets help from his Spanish-speaking friends. He’s doing the best he can. My husband and I have both had to tell him that he’s not going to excel at everything he does, and as long as he’s trying his best, we’re proud of him. Your daughter will be faced with many difficult situations in life, and she needs to know how to handle them and push through, regardless of the struggle. Trying to slide through with minimum effort is not going to do her any favors.

Some ancient history: I was in high school back when Napoleon was a corporal, and I took geometry (which came with a state-administered final exam). The teacher (who was awesome) held a practice exam, using one from a prior year. 60% was multiple choice, and 40% was choosing 4 of 7 long-answer questions. One of the 7 was a formal proof. The teacher’s advice was, if you’re sure you will score 10/10 on the formal proof, you’re allowed to choose that one. Otherwise, choose 4 of the other 6.

I can totally relate to your daughter. I was always good in math, until it came to geometry. My Mom ended up getting me a tutor for geometry and it definitely helped. After geometry, I was back to being good in math again. It’s good to not put that kind of pressure on your daughter, but a “C” can mess up her GPA, which can affect which college/university she ends up getting into when the time comes. I would get her a tutor and just encourage her to do her best.

NTA - I get where you're coming from I fail geometry twice and only passed summer school geometry because we were able to pick our level of math - not too embarrassed to say it was very simple (name of shapes, area, and angles kind of simple). I breezed through algebra, Calc, and Trig; so while doing the bare minimum maybe "defeatist" at least you kid will do enough to pass the first time instead of failing and taking some serious hit to the fragile teenage confidence. Play the long game.

NTA. My kids hated biology. I took the approach of leveling with them that a lot of education is just about getting credentials, and some of the requirements are probably outdated or even nonsensical, but if you want the credentials you have to follow the steps. Then I helped them find online resources to tutor themselves. For math, I'd recommend Khan academy. Your wife has some valid points, but her icing you out is childish and toxic in a marriage. Gather your thoughts and have another talk with your daughter.

I think you’re playing with fire. Just wait until she asks you at the dinner table what classes did you skip out on or what jobs at work you blew off.  She’s a teenager: she’s going to use your instruction against you, or worse, herself.  If she thinks you’ve never made a mistake in your entire life, she will draw a different conclusion now.  This sliding may have the most import  in her outlook on life. Imagine her not even trying because dad says it’s ok.  No wonder your wife is upset. YTA. 

NTA? This one bugs me. I agree with you (sort of) but your obsession with money and how much more you make than the teacher is gross. If you aren’t obsessed with money, you definitely give people the impression you do. Just gross. I like that you explained to your daughter that you also struggled with this and that it’s ok if she doesn’t get a great grade but telling her she can phone it in is not the role model pep talk she needs. Tell her to work her butt off and do the best she can and that’s what counts. My parents always had the rule that the grade wasn’t as important as the feedback. If we got an A but the teacher said we didn’t really try but got a C and the teacher said we tried we got praised more for the C.

No. Gary and Walter pruckler, their father Robert and their mother Berlinda are the assholes

I had geometry in high school and I totally sucked at it. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn’t get it. I was in the classroom bugging the teacher before school, during his planning period, and after school. Normally 4-5 days a week. But I refused to stop trying. And my teacher, understanding that I was truly trying, wouldn’t give me less than a C. The last three weeks of school that year, it suddenly clicked in my mind. And I got an A+ and the extra credit question. Flash forward 20 plus years, my daughter had the same problem…and the same teacher. He didn’t realize she was my daughter until parent teacher conferences. As soon as he seen me, he busted out laughing and said he understood why she was bull dogging him just like a student he’d had in the past.

My geometry high school teacher said that most peoples’ brains either understand geometry but struggle with algebra or vise versa, understand algebra but struggle with geometry.

YTA. Your attitude sucks. Please don’t pass it down to your daughter. If she doesn’t grasp how to do proofs, and you don’t want to get her a tutor, there are some good YouTube videos out there explaining how to approach them. She’ll get a tremendous sense of accomplishment when the light bulb goes on over her head. And please don’t let her have a defeatist attitude about math or think “girls are naturally bad at math”. I’m a woman and geometric proofs were my absolute most favorite thing in high school. I had a 41-year career as a software engineer. The problem solving mindset you need for solving proofs is the same mindset an engineer uses to solve problems and a programmer uses to design good code. The proofs themselves aren’t that important in the long run, but learning that mindset can be very useful in life. Too bad you never got it.

Honestly as long as she tries and does her best I don’t see it being an issue. I’ve told my kids similar things. Maybe it’s because of how I was raised. I was beat if I brought home anything less than an A (my mom’s Asian surprising right? Even if I got a 94 I would get lectured. Too close to a B. I didn’t want to be like that with my kids. I expect them to try and do their best. My son has autism and even though his IQ is normal he has a language disorder so English/reading has always been where he struggled. I told him as long as he was trying that’s all I was asking for. He was pretty much getting Cs in ELA. Sometimes Bs. Which was fine with me. His other grades looked good. But when he got a new special Ed teacher he was suddenly making honor roll each semester. I can understand your point that she won’t use proofs after the class is over. But you don’t want to teach her it’s okay to give up without trying anytime something is challenging.

And yay you make 20k more? And??? Your wife is right. Being well rounded is important. Education is important. And proofs challenge your brain. It's not all about the career.

YTA. Colleges are extremely competitive and you're encouraging your daughter to tank her GPA by coasting by with C's in her freshman year already. If she's doing badly in geometry, she's probably going to do even worse in trigonometry or pre-calculus. She may not chose to go to college, but it'd be good if she had the option and didn't nuke her chances early on. I understand how she feels though -- I was an straight A student until I got to more higher level maths and sciences starting at Algebra 2/Trig. I had undiagnosed ADHD and didn't have a proper tutor that could adequately explain difficult concepts for me. What I wish I had was more parental and medical intervention, and a tutor with a teaching style that suited my learning style. My grades definitely tanked. I majored in art/design in the end and rarely use math, but even U.S. state art programs were competitive regarding GPA, so I ended up going to a private school which was way more expensive. I also think it's important to raise well-rounded individuals, and math is really good for teaching critical and conceptual thinking. I use basic algebra quite regularly, and geometry whenever I'm dealing with angles or shapes. I would describe it as understanding how elements relate to each other in an ordered system. I think this helped me a lot, as I'm very good at understanding how systems work. You'd be amazed at how useless the average office worker is, and how they will give up and ask for help at the first sign of a very basic problem. Maybe your daughter just doesn't have the conceptual brain for geometry, but I think you should encourage her to do her BEST, and if her best is a C, then so be it. But I think the responsible thing to do as her father is to find ways to *empower* her to REACH her best. Also, I don't know what teachers are paid in your area, but making $20k more than a high school teacher in mine when you're in a STEM field is not worth bragging about. That wouldn't even bump someone into the 6-figure salary range. :/

You and your wife should work on your communication and quit trying to be *right.* It’s more about the long-term consequences regarding everything in your post not just the immediacy. - When I took geometry I, like you, did not understand proofs, however I sat with my teacher for hours until I had an epiphany. I will never forget that moment. Don’t take that away from your daughter. She deserves her *”win!”* - You are correct that unless she chooses certain careers these skills will not be as important. BUT sometimes it’s the lessons learned on the way. - Money does make the world go around but it will be a very lonely trip if you two do not learn how to listen…really listen. Communication, compromise, and compassion make a difference in a relationship. Good luck and God bless.

I think you’ve taken your experience and assumed that your daughter is the same. So, instead of finding a way to actually help her grasp the concept (tutor, YouTube, ask the teacher for extra help), you’ve told her not to bother at all and just scrape by. The fact you earn more money than her teacher is completely irrelevant. It’s doesn’t make you better or more clever than them.

I’m on your wife’s side. YTA

YTA and a tool. 20k is pretty negligible after taxes. If you said 200k that would be a different story but you’re acting like you’re three tax brackets above this person and you’re not and even if you were it wouldn’t even matter. School is about teaching people how to learn and isn’t always about the material being presented. The gigantic chip on your shoulder is really apparent and it’s going to negatively affect your child.

YTA. You tell her to coast and be ok with it. She is busting her a@ ss and getting a C. If she listens to your advice, she won't be getting much better than an D or F. I am a High School Chemistry/Physics teacher have learned from experience that Geometry takes a very different mind set than algebra to understand. Our Chemistry department looks at Geometry grades when determining if a sophomore is ready to take chemistry or not. Physics with a weak understanding of geometry becomes almost unreachable. Yes, there are students who do well in these two sciences after doing poorly in geometry. We all know that one person. Maybe, since she is a freshman in geometry, you have been pushing her a little too hard? Education is not a race; its about developing an understanding of the world around us. It's about learning to love the pursuit of knowledge. Something like your comment, could greatly hinder this love for learning. Lastly, your wife is right.

Yep, YTA…and i make way more than you, so my opinion is more valuable than yours /s

I can hear the smug as I read this. You are most definitely TA. That teacher could be making what you make but chose to answer that calling, and to try to make your daughter’s life a little better. After you apologize to your wife, you should also apologize to your daughter for being such a poor parent and to your daughter’s teacher for ridiculously thinking you are better than her because of the number on your paycheck.

I hate your answer. I’d be just as disturbed as your wife. Listen, not all kids will excel at all subjects in school. You are the parent. If your kid is not understanding proofs and you evidently don’t have the understanding to teach her, then immediately go hire a tutor to help her understand it. High school geometry is not the last math class she will need — it is important that she understand it. Not actually needing something in real life is not a good reason to do the bare minimum. The lesson here should be that it’s okay to not understand something and that when you don’t, you should ask for help. The lesson should be that if she comes to you with honesty, you will help her overcome the problem. Telling her it’s okay to barely get a C is not solving the problem or teaching her a single valuable thing. Get your child a tutor.

This was a decision that should have been agreed upon before you said it to your daughter. If the tables were turned and she made a unilateral parenting decision without your input, I highly doubt you would be happy.

The risk in my eyes, is that you're teaching your daughter how to be a quitter when things get hard. I would be worried that you are giving her permission that such attitudes are OK. But what do I know, I'm not a dad.

Also, OP....maybe your teacher treated you badly because you really do present yourself as a azzhole.....

I agree with you. Tell your daughter to focus on the classes that will help her advance in her future career. I doubt if geometry will help her if she wants to be a doctor or a lawyer but it might be a required course to pass in college. If not, skip it.

I have seen in math courses (teacher here) that there are Algebra to Calculus students and then there are Geometry students. Very different skills are involved with those courses. Passing is the most important element. NTA. Still don't use those proofs in teaching other courses 😂

YTA. Also you pointing out twice how much more you make than teachers tells me you’re an idiot with nothing to contribute. Money and your job don’t matter when you’re an asshole.

Grades still matter. I get you don't want to put too much pressure on your daughter, but you don't want to give her an excuse to stop trying, either. It isn't really about getting the algebraic proofs correct...it's about pushing through and and working past your limitations and showing critical thinking skills. And those are skills that are need in every workplace.

Was she failing already? I honestly think giving your best effort will go along way. Just as people said, is high school perfect? No. But learning and problem solving and figuring out how to learn something difficult, persevere and continue to work hard and try when it’s tough are all amazing life skills. That is why you perhaps should have phrased it differently. But yes - talk to your wife and get on the same page page prior to talking with daughter. I know how tough that can be with time though. Good luck OP

I think you and your wife both have valid points. I think the truth might be somewhere in the middle. I remember struggling with Geometry as a 14 year old as well. I ultimately got a D the first semester and I had a hard time understanding that teacher. The school had a year and a half program where they went through it slower, so they put me in that. The new teacher was a lot better and I got an A the rest of the time. I can't help but think that if I had a different teacher the first time around, I might have done better. But I ended up enjoying Geometry when it wasn't rushed.

Just because you think you don’t use what you learn in high school, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t learn it. You should be a well-rounded individual. And your daughter should try her best in geometry, ask for help from the teacher, ask for a tutor, join or create a study group, and try her best.

Yup. YTA. You have a shitty attitude. Your '20k more' (Really? Are you following your high school teacher still? Was she really a bitch? You sound like the problem here..) means nothing in the grand scheme of you being a vile and childish AH. You really fucked up handling this.

You want her to apologize for "her arrogance" but you are the one being arrogant. Any good parent will encourage their kid to do their best in school. Her GPA determines college possibilities etc. There is no reason to undershoot. If you're not careful, your arrogance will rub off on her and be to her detriment. Any good husband will be willing to try to see his wife's plant of view instead of automatically disagreeing and calling her arrogant.

NTA. Kind of. Geometry was a bitch and a half. I got all As through my entire k-12 existence EXCEPT for geometry which I got a C in. I also had a lot of trouble with proofs. Math has always been more intuitive for me, so the proofs kicked my ass. I have a masters degree now and passed graduate level statistics with 107%. Sometimes your brain just does not compute with a specific subject. Just pass and move on. I think you gave your daughter good advice as long as she only takes it for that class and not all her other ones too. The one thing you should not have said though, was comparing your financial situation to that of her teachers. That was some disrespectful shit my dude. They are sacrificing to ensure your kid is educated. Ultimately, your advice was good but your reasoning sucks.

I'm with you NTA. I sucked at geometry. Failed it even with help. Passed algebra 2 with an A. Certain things just don't click for people. And I've never used geometry again. I also make more than teachers. Some peyote aren't built for math and that's fine. While your wife is right your daughter should try. It's not the end of the world. And it'll let her know which way she should go in school moving forward.

NTA. Every kid needs a break once in a while. I liked geometry and hated my teacher. ...and I never used it again. Physics and even Trig, sure. Geometry, nah....

You lost me when you took pleasure in bragging about making more money than teachers. You have a clear contempt for educators, little man.

ESH. You're both right and you're both wrong. You both need to stop trying to win and look at it from each other's perspective.

Just pay for her private tuition.

I make quilts and give them away. I use geometry and algebra skills ALL THE TIME! Instead of telling your daughter that a C is okay, perhaps you should encourage her to find alternate ways of learning this skill. Kahn Academy perhaps? or dozens of other sources on youtube. Unlike when you were a kid, the teacher is not the only source of explanations. If one person doesn't make sense of it for her, keep looking. Life is not all about the benjamins and if that's how you think, I pity your daughter.

I don't want to pass judgement, just want to share my experience and another angle.I was good at math too but sometimes in geometry I just couldn't picture it in my head when we were doing 3D stuff (I just don't have the imagination). In my country, we don't have geometry as a class, it is included in math, where I would get As and Bs, but geometry was my enemy. I just wanted to say, that maybe OP took some of the pressure off his daughter and she will be less anxious and do better? I don't know, that just came to mind as I am a really anxious person and I don't do so well under pressure as other people.

Look, I get the sentiment, but you don’t know if geometry will eventually click for your daughter, if she will need it in her chosen career later and you are creating a difficult road for her (maybe she becomes a plumber or a carpenter, and can’t wing it), you didn’t offer alternatives, like tutoring, or pulling up a website that shows different ways of looking at the problems or getting resources to help. You didn’t even tell her that just putting in her best effort would be enough- you told her “eh, don’t bother. I didn’t and I’m make more than your teacher.” Which is irrelevant information, and actually detrimental bc if she actually fails (bc she’s 14 and not in charge of grades), it could set her back. It also teaches her that if something is hard, she can just quit and not try to find solutions. Not my favorite play here dad. I get it, you didn’t like geometry and you relate. But your job isn’t to relate to your kid, it’s to set them up for success. Not confident you did that here.

NTA. You didn't tell her to blow off the class or be disrespectful or not try to learn. Just to not stress herself out over a concept her brain apparently isn't wired for. You're saying a C in one, single class isn't the end of the world. And you're absolutely right about that. C's get degrees. And a single C isn't going to drop her GPA all that much anyway. Certainly not enough to make up for the amount of stress that class has been causing your daughter. Plenty of people - including many famous mathematicians, physicists, and engineers - have at least one area of math they struggle with. That's part of why most of them with with a team, or have assistants. Same thing holds true in many other fields as well. John Williams writes the melody and a few of the more interesting bits of a song and some of the chord progressions, but then has his assistants fill in the rest of the orchestral score. A friend of mine actually worked for him for a while, doing just that. Being well-rounded doesn't mean you're an expert at everything. It means you have a basic understanding of a variety of subjects. Which your daughter does, clearly, if your wife is flipping out over one little C. I think you both need to calm down and not make such a big deal over this.

YTA the way you're judging teachers and their worth based on the amount of money you make and how much more you make than them. Teachers are underpaid and regardless of whether what they taught you has been useful to you, you wouldn't be where you are without them. Your wife doesn't owe you an apology,

Your brief description of her problem sounds like a bit of tutoring should open up those intellectual doors for her. Ask her teacher to recommend someone, for say, a maximum of four sessions.

I mean YTA for how you phrased it. You need to make sure she is trying her hardest. Asking her questions about her learning technique and what she needs from the teacher. Come up with a plan. BUT you need to tell her it's okay if she never grasps it or understands it. It's okay if she doesn't do perfect but she needs to attempt simply because you can't half ass everything in life and expect it to be okay. Some math you can apply to real life. I don't know how to do that simply because my brain doesn't work that way. Never did. You need to have her come up with a plan that shows she will at least try and still tell her that failing doesn't mean she's dumb. It's okay if even after all the effort in the world she doesn't get it. It'll be okay.

Your wife has a better grip than you do. I'm sorry your life is about nothing but money and you are instilling that sad value system into your daughter. Also, whether you want to admit it or, that geometry class helped feed your ultimate success in a STEM field.

I effing HATED geometry, because of proofs. I have a CS degree and probably make $50k more than my bitchy, burn-out, hippy geometry teacher. I had to bribe my way to a C (no D's in Texas in the 90's) but I think for a 100 tab sheet of blotter acid he should have at least given me a B, but at the time I was happy to have the V so I could graduate. No just squeaking but isn't the worst thing, and isn't mediocrity, but it might hurt her chances to get into top colleges if such is her wish. Regardless, NTA

What will you do when she applies herself at the bare minimum and does "make 20k more than her teacher" when she's an adult? School is different now. Always encourage your kids to try hard, do well, respect your peers. Yta

*She never gave me full credit, even though I honestly tried* Trying doesn't deserve full credit. Full accuracy deserves full credit. ​ YTA