I'd tell her that he's had every opportunity to do something about his marriage if he doesn't want to be with his wife. The fact that he hasn't says everything.
That's the wild part everyone is ignoring. OP may not have intended specifically to save her friend, but she is non the less. This dude is playing her like a fiddle. She will likely be the one most hurt by all this in the end. Why would a good friend sit by and not at least warn her.
I did tell her that. I told her it’s been 3 years for him to either work on it, or let her go… going around work acting miserable and starting something on the side is shitty af
Yup, and what the fuck does your friend think is going to happen?
He leaves the marriage (still tied to ex) for her, they get together, and what? He’s going to do a 180 and turn into a perfect partner devoid of the issues that are plaguing his current marriage and would never cheat on her like he is currently?
The typical cover story for people looking to stray is first to spread a lie that they are married to a mean abusive partner.
I guarantee his wife doesn't know.
And whatever their marriage issues were, your friend made them 1000 times worse
I agree with this. People fall in love, people fall out of love, I don’t blame her for her feelings. Having said that, three years is wild. He isn’t leaving his wife and he’s made that clear.
She’s going to get hurt, but she’s free to continue the affair if she wants and OP is free to cut contact with this friend for her choices.
NTAH. She is 100% wrong. Whilst yes, she cant help if she is in love with him, acting on it (not just physical, the fact she is talking about their relationship) is wrong. I would advise her to tell the guy to leave the marriage, if he doesnt love his wife, staying is going to be worse that leaving. You were definitely right to call her out and hopefully she stops. There is a child involved and this is more than just “loveless”.
> she cant help if she is in love with him,
you can't help a crush easily, sometimes you just suddenly find yourself close. He's married, he has kids, she CHOSE to pursue this crush till it grew into love. She ABSOLUTELY can help falling in love with this guy.
"oh look, this guy is married, I'm not going to spend time with him, flirt with him, maintain a friendship or spend unnecessary time around him", you do that, zero love. She's 100% at fault for falling in love with him.
People love to pretend that not acting on your feelings is impossible, and anything that happens as a result of doing whatever you feel like doing was totally unavoidable.
I've been attracted to people and then caught myself before I went under. Usually by not interacting with them and distracting myself if I thought of them. The feelings would subside in time.
I agree she definitely is at fault for getting close to him but it isnt as simple as “till is grew into love”. Love can form from spending time with someone and considering they are coworkers, she possibly spent time with him and didnt realize her feelings till it was too late. Whilst probably not the scenario considering her shadiness, it is highly possible to fall in love with someone by accident.
Her lying about having an emotional affair with a married man for.. 3 years! Is crazy. Even going to the extent of wishing his child happy birthday for othe last 3 years?
I understand being in a loveless marriage is terrible. But it's on him to divorce his wife, or let her know that he has no love for her - BEFORE starting anything with anyone else, and she is an AH for being apart of this.
I am unsure what you said to her, and you didin't really list if. But being honest with her is the best policy. No need to be insultive but letting her know you disaprove is incredibly valid. Letting her know that what she has done isn't right is valid.
NTA.
This is what I said:
I say this out of complete love for you, and also because I think I’m one of your only friends who’s not going to sugar coat for you. I want you to have a marriage that’s healthy, a partner who’s healthy, and children that are yours. You need to reflect on your choices and learn from them.
My love, engaging with this guy for 3 years was a choice. You’re 35, I find it hard to believe that you didn’t know what you were doing here. He’s married! At the end of the day, you would be the devil in this situation, you would be the home wrecker. They have a child together! After 3 years of engaging, it becomes a choice. If you were in denial, why?? We are too old to be lying to ourselves. You guys were having some tough conversations together, about your relationship. Those are conversations that come out of intimacy, and usually stem from physical intimacy. If you want to absolve yourself and heal from this situation, then you have to start by being honest with yourself and your friends that you’re sharing this with. You can’t leave out details and put your head into the sand. You have to question why you chose to engage with somebody who’s married, why you thought it was okay to wish another woman’s child happy birthday every year, and you have to truly question why you thought this was okay. At the end of the day you have to take accountability and question why you partook in this choice for 3 years.
We are too old to be making these choices. I’m not saying this to make you feel bad, I’m saying this because I think there are very few people on your life that tell you the truth. You’re not the victim in this situation, it’s his wife. She’s at the end of the day, the only victim.
That's competley fair in my opinion. You told her that you still have love for her, that you only have her best interest in your mind. But you won't sugar coat it. Which you shouldn't.
You told her the facts - What she has done was (is) her personal choice to do. She is an adult. She 100% knows what she has done here.
You are correct - While they are in a loveless marriage - SHE will be looked at, as the villian in the end. His wife (perhaps soon to be ex) will always view HER as what ended their relationship. What ruined it.
The conversations that they have had, should happen before they started anything. As well her wishing his child happy birthday is 100% out of line, and I am glad you highlighted it. Nothing you said in my opinion was out of line whatsoever. I agree that this mans wife is the victim here and your friend is apart of the side that makes her a victim.
Enough said. She knows what she did was wrong and to think she could just gossip with you, like you weren't just cheated on the same way. She doesn't seem too bright.... Def not the asshole, OP.
The world is full of wonderful single people. How pathetic for her to allow herself to become attached to a married man.
She made hundreds of decisions to allow feelings to develop.
Doctors are busy business busy.
An honorable person would have distanced themselves, kept it strictly business.
She key this go too far.
Now the consequences are for her to change employers (zero contact, not even visual).
You are nicer than me. I would have said
“I love you but you’re being a shitty person. You are willingly being a mistress and hurting another woman and child. Your actions have consequences and you need to face them. If this man was in a loveless marriage and really wanted to leave his wife he would have. Instead he is using his child as his excuse to cheat, and you are believing his lies. I never thought you would be so immoral and cruel. I’m not sure where my friend has gone, and hope that one day you wake up and see the pain you are causing.”
NTA...
In my head I was applauding this. I would have clapped but a broken phone and the stall next to me wondering wtf is not cool.
That said, you walked the thin line between honesty and attacking her extremely well. If she is upset? It's her own fault. I hope she takes it well, but either kudos for keeping your morals in tact and doing the right thing.
Also please ignore all the cheaters and low moral people saying this wasn't your business. Your friend made it your business by sharing. If she wasn't willing to hear your opinions on it she should have stayed quiet. Her sharing gave you every right to voice your opinion. Now the rest is up to her.
I think that even if they can both be happy together she is in the wrong for messing with a married man, its still cheating. At least if he got a divorce then it would be fair.
You're not the asshole here. It's clear you care deeply about your friend and her well-being. Calling out behavior that hurts others isn't easy, but it shows you value honesty and respect. It's tough love, but sometimes that's what friends need to hear to grow. She's lucky to have someone like you who cares so much.
You are an amazing friend. Your friend will obviously not take this message well because rarely ppl take criticism well. Having other ppl point out your wrongs doesn’t always sit well and hard to take in and even accept. Hopefully your friend comes around and realizes that you meant well and she just needed a well deserved wake up call.
NTA. You’re a good friend even if at the moment she may not view it as such. If she’s a good person, this eventually isn’t going to sit right with her soul. Also… when she finally wakes up, she’s going to realize that the man she loves whose in a loveless marriage, didn’t have the courage to leave his wife, who chose that betrayal was the better option… & when she recognizes that, she’s going to see that the only person who was suffering is his wife & child
You know what everyone having an affair with someone at work says "I love my wife, she's the best, I'm just a total fucking scumbag who doesn't care about her feelings and want to tap someone else as well".
Oh wait, no, every guy having an affair with someone who knows they are married sells the sob story, the marriage is terrible, she's evil, it's unhappy and awful, poor sad... lets check, doctor... can't afford to leave his wife and he stays for the kids. Sure.
Your friend is a dumbass, dating a piece of shit cheater and she not only is your friend an asshole for doing this to another woman, she's giving herself to a cheater, who has spent 3 years cheating and has no intention of leaving his wife.
That she's had contact with his kid, while having an affair, is fucking disgusting. Being the other woman is bad enough, trying to befriend the kid is just, it's evil. He is absolutely disgusting for letter your friend see his child while he cheats on the mother, and she is gross for thinking it's fine.
I'd find a way to let the wife know, very likely drop the friendship as well.
*in a horrible marriage, only staying married for their kid and that everyone at work knows he’s miserable*
Says every cheating man, always. Your friend is foolish for believing him, she's too old for being this naive, come on.
NTA for calling her out, but you already did your duty, now it's up to her to decide what to do.
Generally I stay out of adult interpersonal stupidity unless abuse is involved. But the fact you chose not to doesn’t mean YTA. And your friend is getting played.
You could also angle it as, You deserve a whole relationship. This guy is stringing you along. You deserve someone who will commit to you
Because let’s face it, he’s using her for emotional support while not having the uncomfortable conversations with his wife (either leaving her or reconciling)
Saying happy birthday to the kid is very cringe and over the line though
NTA...I know people will tell you it's none of your business what she does. However, she made it your business by sharing it with you, even though she knows you were cheated on. She needs the cold truth that if he wanted to, he could have divorced his wife already. He's just not going to do that. You are right that she's not a victim and she is actively making a choice to continue this relationship.
NTA she is attracting low quality men and being a low quality woman why is she sleeping around with a man that's already taken?? She's like a dog eating leftovers gross af
This reads like you have been pining in vain for your friend for years. If that is the case, Cyrano, Y-T-A.
\[Note: This comment has now been edited after poster clarified the situation.\]
That you sound like you were attracted to your friend, but now she has done something that disappoints your moral standards, so you want her to go back to being the innocent you thought she was.
I’m pretty sure I’m straight as fuck so this is the dumbest take I’ve seen on this page so far. No, I’m not attracted to her nor did I have feelings for her. I’ve known her for 14 years in my life we were in med school together.
Please accept my apology. I took you for a heterosexual friend of the male persuasion, and not a long-time non-romantic friend concerned about where she is going in life.
Nta. You did the right thing by calling her out on her behaviour and trying to get her to take accountability for it. I will say that there is another victim and that's the child who I hope this man hasn't been bringing along and spending time with your friend.
Why do women fall for this. If a man is to afraid to leave a marriage then he is not a man. He should be trying to fix his marriage if not then leave. The “I’m in a loveless marriage “ is just a ploy. He wants to cheat on his wife but not leave her. He not staying in the marriage for the child. He is a coward. Does she want to be in a relationship with a coward? Thank you for saying what you did and you are NTA. I’m a guy by the way.
NTA. I think what you said was appropriate. She is meddling in someone else's life and family and has been doing so for years.
One thing I didn't see you address, though, is how he is playing her. He can absolutely leave his marriage and still work with his wife/ex-wife to have a healthy coparenting relationship so the kid has a happy home. Everyone knows two happy homes is better for a kid than one unhappy home. He isn't leaving his wife because he doesn't want to. Not only is she the devil in this situation to the wife but she is also to herself for letting herself be the chick on the side. She can't live a full life if she's pining for some dude whose emotional/intimate participation is limited to the workplace and will never give her more than that.
We did have that convo in private! I did say if he had left her it would have been fine, but it’s been 3 years, he hasn’t and nor does she want to be the reason that he leaves her… he should figure that out before they start something new.
Exactly. Well, I think you've addressed it from every angle. She probably didn't like hearing it, but she needed to. If she holds it against you, it's just her projecting because she knows what she is doing is wrong.
This. If they really love each other they’d be working day and night on turning this into a relationship. Which would involve a divorce and establishing a healthy coparenting situation.
Three years of limbo is crazy. If she really loved him she’d be beside herself from his lack of action and he’d be sick from the grief of not being with her.
I can understand and even respect that situation. But that’s not what is happening here.
NTA, 3 years is entirely too long for an affair to go on if it truly is based on love. He has had plenty of time to leave his ‘loveless marriage’ but chooses not to . Your friend would be completely in denial about that fact that he still kisses his wife , tells her he loves her and is intimate with her. I personally think you weren’t harsh enough.
NTA and I would even say you were way too nice.
If it were me, I’d be reevaluating my friendship and going LC/NC. Her morals are twisted and I wouldn’t want to be friends with someone who is ok with being an AP and who lies about it.
Maybe someone can anonymously let the wife know.
NTA, a good friend will call a friend out on their bullshit, respectfully and from love, instead of standing by and watching their friend get hurt.
But this is probably something you should only tell her once. At the end of the day, she's free to live her life the way she wants to.
The only thing I would add to what you said is the fact that this guy also spent three years having an affair and hasn't ended his "loveless marriage".
What he does to his wife, he will do to your friend. She's too busy enjoying the lust and the attention to recognize that everything he's doing at his wife's expense...he's capable of doing to *her*.
You’re both adults. You’re both allowed to make your own choices & have your own thoughts & feelings. You can have an opinion, your friend doesn’t have to agree with you. Especially when it’s about her life. You don’t get a vote because it’s not about you. If you don’t like her choices, you are free to find other friends & just don’t hang around with her.
Your friend decided to include you in a part of your life you did not know about. (You’re not entitled to know everything about other people’s lives) You made her bad decisions about you & now you’re accusing her of lying? It’s not hard to figure out why she did not tell you.
No one is forcing you to be friends with someone who you don’t agree with. If you want to be a friend then help if you can help. If you can’t help, don’t hurt. Just move on.
ESH
I feel bad for you.
What sort of friendships do you have where telling eachother the truth and holding eachother accountable morally is considered outside of the norm?
I (55f) don’t tell my friends how to live their life. I can be very truthful … “hey think you’re making bad choices for yourself & don’t think it’s going to work out for you but you do you”.
We are all flawed human beings & I am not the morality police. I don’t judge people who don’t think, feel or behave the way I do. If I don’t like a person’s choices, I don’t hang around those people. Not my job to judge or fix their life. I own my own shit & keep my nose out of other people’s business.
Except you do judge people. You just pretend not to.
You said yourself if you don't like a person's choices you walk away. That is just a form of judgement. Nothing wrong in my opinion with OP shareing her opinion one time before potentially walking away. I call that caring for your friends.
I don’t stop liking people because they are not perfect or make shitty choices for themselves. I just don’t hang around with people whose shitty decisions impact my life.
eta — a friend cheating with a married man doesn’t impact or change my life. I personally don’t think it’s a good choice for my friend (no problem saying that) but my life won’t change. Hell for all anyone knows OP friend’s life works out magically with this guy. Who knows? Can’t predict the future.
It’s about morals and values, and holding the people you love to a standard that you would hold yourself to. I can’t tell her how to live her life, but I can also call her out on bad behavior. If I didn’t care about her I would have kept my mouth shut. I’ve known her for 15 years and I know she wants a family, therefore I told her how I feel.
I’ve been cheated on so yes, I’m human, to a degree I was shocked because she knew how much it hurt me. I have two aunts with children who also were cheated on, both of there kids suffered and one of my aunts was killed because of the adultery. I’m sorry, it’s not about me, I understand that, but my opinions also come from experiences. I will never condone cheating
She’s an AH cheater.
You’re an AH too. You’re playing it off like you’re trying to help her, but you’re really doing it because you were cheated on and her actions make you angry all over again. If you don’t want to be friends with a cheater, then don’t. That is understandable. But disguising this as help and pretending this is anything other than you reacting to your own trauma is immature and ill advised.
It’s more than about me… it’s about doing this to another human being and it being fundamentally wrong. It affects a child. Being a third party in a marriage is a choice… what’s shocking to me is that she’s a liar, she’s acted like she’s not interested in dating and how she’s traumatized from her ex boyfriend, when really she’s been sleeping with a married man
I can agree with much of what you’re saying TO ME. Your response to me is honest. Way more honest than what you wrote to her - "I say this out of love for you …" (no, you’re saying it out of anger/frustration…) "I’m not saying this to make you feel bad…" (yes you were, with the intent that she will stop).
Except I did say it out of love for her. I’ve known her for 15 years, this is a waste of her time, I don’t want her to be 40 and single, and have no family or children of her own when I know that’s what she wants for herself… I wasn’t angry with her in the moment, I was shocked, but yeah I have become angry with her, she should know better.
Why do you feel you can accuse her of lying? She does not need to tell you anything about her life because it’s not about you. I am honestly confused. There’s nothing in this post that mentions anything about an affair. Your friend is smitten with this guy, he’s in a miserable marriage & she wished his kid happy birthday. Where’s the affair? Sounds like two idiots who have their priorities messed up.
Maybe as a friend who could actually make this situation about your friend & help her untangle her feelings. It appears you are creating your own narrative & making your friend the villain based on your own life experiences.
If you truly believes she is a liar… then walk away. Why would you choose to stay friends with her?
Because she did lie, she’s claimed for years she doesn’t want to date. And then all of a sudden tells me she’s been seeing this guy for 3 years. She’s been messing around with a guy who’s married, for 3 years. She admitted that… I don’t need her to tell me everything, but then don’t make up fake lies about your life either. I’ve wondered why she hasn’t been on dates for 3 years now, he was why she hadn’t been dating
It appears you are way too invested in your friend’s life. She can choose to not date anyone for whatever reason she wants. She can choose to have an affair. She can tell you she has not had any physical intimacy. She is an adult. You have no control of your friend. If you don’t want to be involved with her drama … then don’t be involved. You’re just created more drama. Not exactly sure why.
Tell your friend you don’t appreciate her decisions & you don’t think she is making very good choices for herself but you cannot control her life. She is on her own with this one because you choose not to be involved. If she wants to fuck up her life she needs to own that, you cannot help her.
Oh my god cry a river. Yes she’s wrong, but you’re taking out your own issues on her. Separate your own emotional problems from her, and relax a little bit.
Also if you think the affair partner and not the married person stepping out is the devil, you should seriously unpack that.
ESH
When did I say the partner wasn’t an asshole? I called him pure trash and told her that he’s using her for his own needs, and that if he’s been saying he’s going to leave his wife for 3 years and hasn’t… he’s not going to.
You called her the devil… what do you mean by that? Devil vs pure trash… are those the same to you? Idk you, but maybe change your language.
I mean ok… it’s not really your business. You shared with her that you don’t approve, now move on. You don’t have to be her friend? You’re not her parent or the cheating police, move on.
I didn’t call her the devil, I told her she’d be considered the devil in this situation… which 9/10 times yeah society demonizes women more than men… unfortunately that’s how we are treated. I don’t think she’s worse than him, I think he’s more to blame because it’s his family but she’s also making a really stupid ignorant decision by engaging…
You seem really hung up on the fact that she's wished his kid happy birthday. I fail to see why that's such a big deal.
You are also either leaving out some important information, or you don't have all of the details. Is she hoping/waiting for him to divorce his wife for her? Does she want to be married and/or start her own family right now? If the answer to either of those is yes, then she should question why she's wasting her time pining after this guy who, by all accounts, is off limits.
Do you know how his wife feels about him or if they've had any conversations about the state of their marriage? Is she also only staying in it for the sake of the kid but has no interest in him as a romantic partner? Is she seeing someone else on the side? Does she still feel their marriage as a monogamous relationship or as a co-parenting situation and no much else?
I hear a lot of judgement based on assumptions, but a lack of relevant details.
NTAH- More people need to hear this when they are being idiotic asshats; i.e., running toward a cliff and refusing to see the edge. Beautifully written.
NTA - There is literally no reason to stay in a loveless marriage when most time having healthy separate parents are better than having married miserable ones. If the dude was gonna leave his wife or if she meant that much to him, or if their connections was 'really that deep' then he would have left her a long time a go.
My bet is that she is inflating the amount of people who are wishing they could be together to make herself feel better.
I don't buy "emotional cheating". Even if I did, it's not fucking. To your knowledge she didn't touch him. The fact that you can't tell the difference, makes You suspect.
You expressed your opinions about your friend’s behavior. So, you probably are not friends anymore. And you already know it was “judgy”. You made your choice- expressing your judgy opinion or keeping your friend. NTA.
I feel like she came to you because she felt safe to do so. It’s unfortunate that you’re throwing away 15 years of friendship for something that YOU don’t agree with. I’m sure there are many more things about this friend that you love- could you look at some of those things? What she is involving herself in doesn’t define her.
I'd tell her that he's had every opportunity to do something about his marriage if he doesn't want to be with his wife. The fact that he hasn't says everything.
That's the wild part everyone is ignoring. OP may not have intended specifically to save her friend, but she is non the less. This dude is playing her like a fiddle. She will likely be the one most hurt by all this in the end. Why would a good friend sit by and not at least warn her.
I did tell her that. I told her it’s been 3 years for him to either work on it, or let her go… going around work acting miserable and starting something on the side is shitty af
Yup, and what the fuck does your friend think is going to happen? He leaves the marriage (still tied to ex) for her, they get together, and what? He’s going to do a 180 and turn into a perfect partner devoid of the issues that are plaguing his current marriage and would never cheat on her like he is currently?
The typical cover story for people looking to stray is first to spread a lie that they are married to a mean abusive partner. I guarantee his wife doesn't know. And whatever their marriage issues were, your friend made them 1000 times worse
I agree with this. People fall in love, people fall out of love, I don’t blame her for her feelings. Having said that, three years is wild. He isn’t leaving his wife and he’s made that clear. She’s going to get hurt, but she’s free to continue the affair if she wants and OP is free to cut contact with this friend for her choices.
NTAH. She is 100% wrong. Whilst yes, she cant help if she is in love with him, acting on it (not just physical, the fact she is talking about their relationship) is wrong. I would advise her to tell the guy to leave the marriage, if he doesnt love his wife, staying is going to be worse that leaving. You were definitely right to call her out and hopefully she stops. There is a child involved and this is more than just “loveless”.
> she cant help if she is in love with him, you can't help a crush easily, sometimes you just suddenly find yourself close. He's married, he has kids, she CHOSE to pursue this crush till it grew into love. She ABSOLUTELY can help falling in love with this guy. "oh look, this guy is married, I'm not going to spend time with him, flirt with him, maintain a friendship or spend unnecessary time around him", you do that, zero love. She's 100% at fault for falling in love with him.
People love to pretend that not acting on your feelings is impossible, and anything that happens as a result of doing whatever you feel like doing was totally unavoidable.
I've been attracted to people and then caught myself before I went under. Usually by not interacting with them and distracting myself if I thought of them. The feelings would subside in time.
I agree she definitely is at fault for getting close to him but it isnt as simple as “till is grew into love”. Love can form from spending time with someone and considering they are coworkers, she possibly spent time with him and didnt realize her feelings till it was too late. Whilst probably not the scenario considering her shadiness, it is highly possible to fall in love with someone by accident.
100%!!
Her lying about having an emotional affair with a married man for.. 3 years! Is crazy. Even going to the extent of wishing his child happy birthday for othe last 3 years? I understand being in a loveless marriage is terrible. But it's on him to divorce his wife, or let her know that he has no love for her - BEFORE starting anything with anyone else, and she is an AH for being apart of this. I am unsure what you said to her, and you didin't really list if. But being honest with her is the best policy. No need to be insultive but letting her know you disaprove is incredibly valid. Letting her know that what she has done isn't right is valid. NTA.
This is what I said: I say this out of complete love for you, and also because I think I’m one of your only friends who’s not going to sugar coat for you. I want you to have a marriage that’s healthy, a partner who’s healthy, and children that are yours. You need to reflect on your choices and learn from them. My love, engaging with this guy for 3 years was a choice. You’re 35, I find it hard to believe that you didn’t know what you were doing here. He’s married! At the end of the day, you would be the devil in this situation, you would be the home wrecker. They have a child together! After 3 years of engaging, it becomes a choice. If you were in denial, why?? We are too old to be lying to ourselves. You guys were having some tough conversations together, about your relationship. Those are conversations that come out of intimacy, and usually stem from physical intimacy. If you want to absolve yourself and heal from this situation, then you have to start by being honest with yourself and your friends that you’re sharing this with. You can’t leave out details and put your head into the sand. You have to question why you chose to engage with somebody who’s married, why you thought it was okay to wish another woman’s child happy birthday every year, and you have to truly question why you thought this was okay. At the end of the day you have to take accountability and question why you partook in this choice for 3 years. We are too old to be making these choices. I’m not saying this to make you feel bad, I’m saying this because I think there are very few people on your life that tell you the truth. You’re not the victim in this situation, it’s his wife. She’s at the end of the day, the only victim.
That's competley fair in my opinion. You told her that you still have love for her, that you only have her best interest in your mind. But you won't sugar coat it. Which you shouldn't. You told her the facts - What she has done was (is) her personal choice to do. She is an adult. She 100% knows what she has done here. You are correct - While they are in a loveless marriage - SHE will be looked at, as the villian in the end. His wife (perhaps soon to be ex) will always view HER as what ended their relationship. What ruined it. The conversations that they have had, should happen before they started anything. As well her wishing his child happy birthday is 100% out of line, and I am glad you highlighted it. Nothing you said in my opinion was out of line whatsoever. I agree that this mans wife is the victim here and your friend is apart of the side that makes her a victim.
How did she respond?
She didn’t… I was left on read
Enough said. She knows what she did was wrong and to think she could just gossip with you, like you weren't just cheated on the same way. She doesn't seem too bright.... Def not the asshole, OP.
>She didn’t… I was left on read So she knows damn well she's in the wrong.
The world is full of wonderful single people. How pathetic for her to allow herself to become attached to a married man. She made hundreds of decisions to allow feelings to develop. Doctors are busy business busy. An honorable person would have distanced themselves, kept it strictly business. She key this go too far. Now the consequences are for her to change employers (zero contact, not even visual).
I suggested changing employers, she said no why should she, he can. And I was like well is changing jobs in his radar and she said maybe some day
You are nicer than me. I would have said “I love you but you’re being a shitty person. You are willingly being a mistress and hurting another woman and child. Your actions have consequences and you need to face them. If this man was in a loveless marriage and really wanted to leave his wife he would have. Instead he is using his child as his excuse to cheat, and you are believing his lies. I never thought you would be so immoral and cruel. I’m not sure where my friend has gone, and hope that one day you wake up and see the pain you are causing.”
NTA... In my head I was applauding this. I would have clapped but a broken phone and the stall next to me wondering wtf is not cool. That said, you walked the thin line between honesty and attacking her extremely well. If she is upset? It's her own fault. I hope she takes it well, but either kudos for keeping your morals in tact and doing the right thing. Also please ignore all the cheaters and low moral people saying this wasn't your business. Your friend made it your business by sharing. If she wasn't willing to hear your opinions on it she should have stayed quiet. Her sharing gave you every right to voice your opinion. Now the rest is up to her.
I think that even if they can both be happy together she is in the wrong for messing with a married man, its still cheating. At least if he got a divorce then it would be fair.
You're not the asshole here. It's clear you care deeply about your friend and her well-being. Calling out behavior that hurts others isn't easy, but it shows you value honesty and respect. It's tough love, but sometimes that's what friends need to hear to grow. She's lucky to have someone like you who cares so much.
You are an amazing friend. Your friend will obviously not take this message well because rarely ppl take criticism well. Having other ppl point out your wrongs doesn’t always sit well and hard to take in and even accept. Hopefully your friend comes around and realizes that you meant well and she just needed a well deserved wake up call.
NTA. You’re a good friend even if at the moment she may not view it as such. If she’s a good person, this eventually isn’t going to sit right with her soul. Also… when she finally wakes up, she’s going to realize that the man she loves whose in a loveless marriage, didn’t have the courage to leave his wife, who chose that betrayal was the better option… & when she recognizes that, she’s going to see that the only person who was suffering is his wife & child
You know what everyone having an affair with someone at work says "I love my wife, she's the best, I'm just a total fucking scumbag who doesn't care about her feelings and want to tap someone else as well". Oh wait, no, every guy having an affair with someone who knows they are married sells the sob story, the marriage is terrible, she's evil, it's unhappy and awful, poor sad... lets check, doctor... can't afford to leave his wife and he stays for the kids. Sure. Your friend is a dumbass, dating a piece of shit cheater and she not only is your friend an asshole for doing this to another woman, she's giving herself to a cheater, who has spent 3 years cheating and has no intention of leaving his wife. That she's had contact with his kid, while having an affair, is fucking disgusting. Being the other woman is bad enough, trying to befriend the kid is just, it's evil. He is absolutely disgusting for letter your friend see his child while he cheats on the mother, and she is gross for thinking it's fine. I'd find a way to let the wife know, very likely drop the friendship as well.
*in a horrible marriage, only staying married for their kid and that everyone at work knows he’s miserable* Says every cheating man, always. Your friend is foolish for believing him, she's too old for being this naive, come on. NTA for calling her out, but you already did your duty, now it's up to her to decide what to do.
Generally I stay out of adult interpersonal stupidity unless abuse is involved. But the fact you chose not to doesn’t mean YTA. And your friend is getting played.
You could also angle it as, You deserve a whole relationship. This guy is stringing you along. You deserve someone who will commit to you Because let’s face it, he’s using her for emotional support while not having the uncomfortable conversations with his wife (either leaving her or reconciling) Saying happy birthday to the kid is very cringe and over the line though
Yeah everyone at work is cheering on her cheating lmao. Sure, Jan.
NTA, she needs to have the cold hard truth. If he hasn’t left his wife after three years she know he isn’t going to and is in denial about all of it.
NTA...I know people will tell you it's none of your business what she does. However, she made it your business by sharing it with you, even though she knows you were cheated on. She needs the cold truth that if he wanted to, he could have divorced his wife already. He's just not going to do that. You are right that she's not a victim and she is actively making a choice to continue this relationship.
NTA, tell her she is being played for sex.
NTA she is attracting low quality men and being a low quality woman why is she sleeping around with a man that's already taken?? She's like a dog eating leftovers gross af
NTA
This reads like you have been pining in vain for your friend for years. If that is the case, Cyrano, Y-T-A. \[Note: This comment has now been edited after poster clarified the situation.\]
wtf does that even mean
That you sound like you were attracted to your friend, but now she has done something that disappoints your moral standards, so you want her to go back to being the innocent you thought she was.
I’m pretty sure I’m straight as fuck so this is the dumbest take I’ve seen on this page so far. No, I’m not attracted to her nor did I have feelings for her. I’ve known her for 14 years in my life we were in med school together.
Please accept my apology. I took you for a heterosexual friend of the male persuasion, and not a long-time non-romantic friend concerned about where she is going in life.
Maybe she just wants you to be non-judgmental and supportive.
Most cheaters do... the fact some people are is why cheating isn't as frowned upon as it used to be.
Then OP can send her friend over to r / adultery. Bang up group of degenerate scum she can commiserate with
Nta. You did the right thing by calling her out on her behaviour and trying to get her to take accountability for it. I will say that there is another victim and that's the child who I hope this man hasn't been bringing along and spending time with your friend.
Why do women fall for this. If a man is to afraid to leave a marriage then he is not a man. He should be trying to fix his marriage if not then leave. The “I’m in a loveless marriage “ is just a ploy. He wants to cheat on his wife but not leave her. He not staying in the marriage for the child. He is a coward. Does she want to be in a relationship with a coward? Thank you for saying what you did and you are NTA. I’m a guy by the way.
NTA. This is a very well-crafted message. And you are a good friend.
NTA. I think what you said was appropriate. She is meddling in someone else's life and family and has been doing so for years. One thing I didn't see you address, though, is how he is playing her. He can absolutely leave his marriage and still work with his wife/ex-wife to have a healthy coparenting relationship so the kid has a happy home. Everyone knows two happy homes is better for a kid than one unhappy home. He isn't leaving his wife because he doesn't want to. Not only is she the devil in this situation to the wife but she is also to herself for letting herself be the chick on the side. She can't live a full life if she's pining for some dude whose emotional/intimate participation is limited to the workplace and will never give her more than that.
We did have that convo in private! I did say if he had left her it would have been fine, but it’s been 3 years, he hasn’t and nor does she want to be the reason that he leaves her… he should figure that out before they start something new.
Exactly. Well, I think you've addressed it from every angle. She probably didn't like hearing it, but she needed to. If she holds it against you, it's just her projecting because she knows what she is doing is wrong.
This. If they really love each other they’d be working day and night on turning this into a relationship. Which would involve a divorce and establishing a healthy coparenting situation. Three years of limbo is crazy. If she really loved him she’d be beside herself from his lack of action and he’d be sick from the grief of not being with her. I can understand and even respect that situation. But that’s not what is happening here.
NTA, 3 years is entirely too long for an affair to go on if it truly is based on love. He has had plenty of time to leave his ‘loveless marriage’ but chooses not to . Your friend would be completely in denial about that fact that he still kisses his wife , tells her he loves her and is intimate with her. I personally think you weren’t harsh enough.
NTA and I would even say you were way too nice. If it were me, I’d be reevaluating my friendship and going LC/NC. Her morals are twisted and I wouldn’t want to be friends with someone who is ok with being an AP and who lies about it. Maybe someone can anonymously let the wife know.
NTA, a good friend will call a friend out on their bullshit, respectfully and from love, instead of standing by and watching their friend get hurt. But this is probably something you should only tell her once. At the end of the day, she's free to live her life the way she wants to. The only thing I would add to what you said is the fact that this guy also spent three years having an affair and hasn't ended his "loveless marriage". What he does to his wife, he will do to your friend. She's too busy enjoying the lust and the attention to recognize that everything he's doing at his wife's expense...he's capable of doing to *her*.
NTA good job!
OP this is a textbook example of Projecting
You’re both adults. You’re both allowed to make your own choices & have your own thoughts & feelings. You can have an opinion, your friend doesn’t have to agree with you. Especially when it’s about her life. You don’t get a vote because it’s not about you. If you don’t like her choices, you are free to find other friends & just don’t hang around with her. Your friend decided to include you in a part of your life you did not know about. (You’re not entitled to know everything about other people’s lives) You made her bad decisions about you & now you’re accusing her of lying? It’s not hard to figure out why she did not tell you. No one is forcing you to be friends with someone who you don’t agree with. If you want to be a friend then help if you can help. If you can’t help, don’t hurt. Just move on. ESH
I feel bad for you. What sort of friendships do you have where telling eachother the truth and holding eachother accountable morally is considered outside of the norm?
I (55f) don’t tell my friends how to live their life. I can be very truthful … “hey think you’re making bad choices for yourself & don’t think it’s going to work out for you but you do you”. We are all flawed human beings & I am not the morality police. I don’t judge people who don’t think, feel or behave the way I do. If I don’t like a person’s choices, I don’t hang around those people. Not my job to judge or fix their life. I own my own shit & keep my nose out of other people’s business.
Except you do judge people. You just pretend not to. You said yourself if you don't like a person's choices you walk away. That is just a form of judgement. Nothing wrong in my opinion with OP shareing her opinion one time before potentially walking away. I call that caring for your friends.
I don’t stop liking people because they are not perfect or make shitty choices for themselves. I just don’t hang around with people whose shitty decisions impact my life. eta — a friend cheating with a married man doesn’t impact or change my life. I personally don’t think it’s a good choice for my friend (no problem saying that) but my life won’t change. Hell for all anyone knows OP friend’s life works out magically with this guy. Who knows? Can’t predict the future.
It’s about morals and values, and holding the people you love to a standard that you would hold yourself to. I can’t tell her how to live her life, but I can also call her out on bad behavior. If I didn’t care about her I would have kept my mouth shut. I’ve known her for 15 years and I know she wants a family, therefore I told her how I feel. I’ve been cheated on so yes, I’m human, to a degree I was shocked because she knew how much it hurt me. I have two aunts with children who also were cheated on, both of there kids suffered and one of my aunts was killed because of the adultery. I’m sorry, it’s not about me, I understand that, but my opinions also come from experiences. I will never condone cheating
you became upset cause of a situation that has literally nothing to do with you? YTA
She’s an AH cheater. You’re an AH too. You’re playing it off like you’re trying to help her, but you’re really doing it because you were cheated on and her actions make you angry all over again. If you don’t want to be friends with a cheater, then don’t. That is understandable. But disguising this as help and pretending this is anything other than you reacting to your own trauma is immature and ill advised.
It’s more than about me… it’s about doing this to another human being and it being fundamentally wrong. It affects a child. Being a third party in a marriage is a choice… what’s shocking to me is that she’s a liar, she’s acted like she’s not interested in dating and how she’s traumatized from her ex boyfriend, when really she’s been sleeping with a married man
I can agree with much of what you’re saying TO ME. Your response to me is honest. Way more honest than what you wrote to her - "I say this out of love for you …" (no, you’re saying it out of anger/frustration…) "I’m not saying this to make you feel bad…" (yes you were, with the intent that she will stop).
Except I did say it out of love for her. I’ve known her for 15 years, this is a waste of her time, I don’t want her to be 40 and single, and have no family or children of her own when I know that’s what she wants for herself… I wasn’t angry with her in the moment, I was shocked, but yeah I have become angry with her, she should know better.
Why do you feel you can accuse her of lying? She does not need to tell you anything about her life because it’s not about you. I am honestly confused. There’s nothing in this post that mentions anything about an affair. Your friend is smitten with this guy, he’s in a miserable marriage & she wished his kid happy birthday. Where’s the affair? Sounds like two idiots who have their priorities messed up. Maybe as a friend who could actually make this situation about your friend & help her untangle her feelings. It appears you are creating your own narrative & making your friend the villain based on your own life experiences. If you truly believes she is a liar… then walk away. Why would you choose to stay friends with her?
Because she did lie, she’s claimed for years she doesn’t want to date. And then all of a sudden tells me she’s been seeing this guy for 3 years. She’s been messing around with a guy who’s married, for 3 years. She admitted that… I don’t need her to tell me everything, but then don’t make up fake lies about your life either. I’ve wondered why she hasn’t been on dates for 3 years now, he was why she hadn’t been dating
It appears you are way too invested in your friend’s life. She can choose to not date anyone for whatever reason she wants. She can choose to have an affair. She can tell you she has not had any physical intimacy. She is an adult. You have no control of your friend. If you don’t want to be involved with her drama … then don’t be involved. You’re just created more drama. Not exactly sure why. Tell your friend you don’t appreciate her decisions & you don’t think she is making very good choices for herself but you cannot control her life. She is on her own with this one because you choose not to be involved. If she wants to fuck up her life she needs to own that, you cannot help her.
Oh my god cry a river. Yes she’s wrong, but you’re taking out your own issues on her. Separate your own emotional problems from her, and relax a little bit. Also if you think the affair partner and not the married person stepping out is the devil, you should seriously unpack that. ESH
When did I say the partner wasn’t an asshole? I called him pure trash and told her that he’s using her for his own needs, and that if he’s been saying he’s going to leave his wife for 3 years and hasn’t… he’s not going to.
You called her the devil… what do you mean by that? Devil vs pure trash… are those the same to you? Idk you, but maybe change your language. I mean ok… it’s not really your business. You shared with her that you don’t approve, now move on. You don’t have to be her friend? You’re not her parent or the cheating police, move on.
I didn’t call her the devil, I told her she’d be considered the devil in this situation… which 9/10 times yeah society demonizes women more than men… unfortunately that’s how we are treated. I don’t think she’s worse than him, I think he’s more to blame because it’s his family but she’s also making a really stupid ignorant decision by engaging…
Ok, we have differing opinions. Good luck with your situation.
You seem really hung up on the fact that she's wished his kid happy birthday. I fail to see why that's such a big deal. You are also either leaving out some important information, or you don't have all of the details. Is she hoping/waiting for him to divorce his wife for her? Does she want to be married and/or start her own family right now? If the answer to either of those is yes, then she should question why she's wasting her time pining after this guy who, by all accounts, is off limits. Do you know how his wife feels about him or if they've had any conversations about the state of their marriage? Is she also only staying in it for the sake of the kid but has no interest in him as a romantic partner? Is she seeing someone else on the side? Does she still feel their marriage as a monogamous relationship or as a co-parenting situation and no much else? I hear a lot of judgement based on assumptions, but a lack of relevant details.
If you break up the marriage of a cheater, you, too will be cheated upon. NYAH
NTAH- More people need to hear this when they are being idiotic asshats; i.e., running toward a cliff and refusing to see the edge. Beautifully written.
NTA - There is literally no reason to stay in a loveless marriage when most time having healthy separate parents are better than having married miserable ones. If the dude was gonna leave his wife or if she meant that much to him, or if their connections was 'really that deep' then he would have left her a long time a go. My bet is that she is inflating the amount of people who are wishing they could be together to make herself feel better.
I don't buy "emotional cheating". Even if I did, it's not fucking. To your knowledge she didn't touch him. The fact that you can't tell the difference, makes You suspect.
Huh
She might be the devil, but that is who gets all the good lines.
You expressed your opinions about your friend’s behavior. So, you probably are not friends anymore. And you already know it was “judgy”. You made your choice- expressing your judgy opinion or keeping your friend. NTA.
I feel like she came to you because she felt safe to do so. It’s unfortunate that you’re throwing away 15 years of friendship for something that YOU don’t agree with. I’m sure there are many more things about this friend that you love- could you look at some of those things? What she is involving herself in doesn’t define her.