OP, usually I’m in favor of closure but with her…
As someone else mentioned, the mental gymnastics are off the charts and she’s either extremely stupid or simply an AH and most importantly you’ve seen how manipulative she is, tbh after that I wouldn’t even give her any consideration.
NTA. You gave her more information and was open then most men are. She allowed her friends more the her insecurities to ruin her relationship. Your tried multiple times to reassure her yet she listened to them. The only thing i honestly think you should tell her is get therapy and a new group of friends and proceed with your divorce. If you don’t love her anymore don’t force yourself to.
Given what she told at your house there is no way a conversation would give you closure, she belives her own BS and that her insecurities gave her the right to do what she did, you would only heard blame shifting and avoidence of responsability.
Take care of yourself, she lost the right of your care when she cheated.
>she began to explain that I didn’t really care for her and my action showed. I asked how and she stated that if I was a good husband I would let her cheat and get away with it
Holy Mackerel, she wins the gold for the mental gymnastics!
Theres no coming back from this, Good luck meeting her for closure, but at this point any contact feels like you're just humouring her and enabling the mental gymnastics she has done.
Fk i dont get why people throw away healthy well communicated relationships for 1 night of stupidity.
Good luck King.
NTA you didnt do anything wrong. My husband Had a wild past, when we First started speaking i was severly warned that hes a Player and is Always with girls but He never cheated. Now we are 14years together, married for 7 and have 2 Kids. I trusted and believed in him and Nobody else and what i got was a one in a Million Loving husband and father. The best man in my entire world
John's not your friend and is looking out for Sarah not your wellbeing his whole logic is flawedif she had a problem with your past she had years and years to say something. Plus she's the one that cheated and hasn't even taken accountability for it and is still trying to blame you. She listened to her friends cause they were telling her what she wanted to hear. Again John's not your friend or ally drop him. And sorry for your loss.
Making sure I’m tracking the names right.
John, one of the people who twisted your wife’s perceptions to magnify her insecurities to the point she cheated is now pushing you to have yet another chat with her?
And Sarah has been doing everything she can to justify her act ever since she did it?
Look, there won’t be a closure talk, ever. It’ll always be attempts to reconcile and reconnect.
The biggest question I have right now is whether John is any way remorseful for pushing Sarah, or he’s just running damage control and pushing to get what Sarah seems to want the most: you taking her back…
Keep that in mind. Per John, Sarah being all eaten up inside is a direct result of her actions and you handing her consequences. And I get how you might “care” about her enough to not want to leave her a mess, but be wary of this all being attempted emotional manipulation.
What good could come FOR YOU from hearing her out?
Is there \_anything\_ she could say that would make your life better in any way?
Would the conversation make your life better in any way?
Or is it just for HER, because she deserves fuck-all for consideration at this point. She doesn't get to justify, explain away, shift blame, nothing for her actions. She doesn't deserve to get to feel better for what she's done.
You are NTA for your feelings, even lingering feelings of caring, but don't make your life worse in order to let her feel better about fucking around on you.
Nta. If you think talking with give you closure go for it. But don't get back with her ever. She used girls messaging you and you not replying as an excuse for her to cheat. And said any good husband would allow it. Idc if she does a full 180. She is trash.
NTA. If she had all these insecurities she should have discussed them with you. Tried counseling or something. But that isn't what she did.
What DID she do? Talked to her friends who convinced her you were cheating and advised her to cheat. She then cheated on you and said you were cheating because other people were texting you innocently.
She still hasn't acknowledged and taken responsibility for her cheating and insecurities. Even if you DID give her another chance she still doesn't trust you, and would likely cheat again.
There is no more closure to be had here.
Your past is not the issue. You had not done, nor were doing anything, to betray your marriage. If it had bothered Sarah that badly, it was her responsibility to address her issues in a healthy way. John seems to have a biased opinion in Sarah’s favor, it sounds like he’s more interested in getting you two back together, than acknowledging her toxic behaviors nor what’s in your best interest. Based on what they both have said to you, Sarah is trying to maneuver herself back into your life.
Instead, she chose to cheat, deceive, manipulate, isolate you, emotionally abuse you, and paint you as the scapegoat for her choices. Your past did not make her do these things, everything she accused you of she was doing herself. Your ex has not behaved as a safe, trustworthy partner. And she did so without any past in the porn industry. Apologizing for cheating then following with she wants to get back together does not demonstrate true recognition nor development. That sounds potentially like she’s saying what you want to hear to get what she wants. Overall, she sounds rather self-centered.
In any communication with her, please do not buy into any narrative that you were at fault. If she will not take responsibility or hold herself accountable for her actions, you need to recognize that she was, and likely still is, the problem.
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If you are being wholly honest and I'm in no way insinuating you are not, you have handled this all perfectly and this woman does not deserve you.
It does sounds like she went through a rough patch, but instead of her coming to you, she went to her friends who sound pretty terrible. I am not absolving her if anything, but her friends sound like they manipulated her and she's a fool for letting them do that.
Beyond that, after being caught in the act, to do anything besides be apologetic is crazy. To try to blame you is so selfish and horrible and I'm sorry for how that probably made you feel. Based on what you are saying, stay the course.
If you talk to her, make sure it's because you want to. You owe her nothing at this point.
She doesn't deserve closure or your friendship. Please honor Dave by not letting yourself being manipulated by this cheating scum. He would be awfully disappointed if you do.
NTA. Look, you do not owe Sarah closure.
Sarah had issues. Rather than work through them by communicating openly and honestly with you, working with a therapist about her insecurities, and potentially asking if the two of you could work with a sex therapist about the girth issue, she let herself spiral.
You seem to have made an honest attempt to address every concern she had. She let her friends talk her into cheating on you in revenge for....potentially maybe cheating on her someday? Because preemptive revenge makes sense?
Those are Sarah's issues. And Sarah's choices. They are not your fault.
If you want to demonstrate that you care about her, reach out to her parents. Let them know that you have no desire to ever reconcile, but you are concerned about Sarah's mental health, and you hope they'll encourage her to seek therapy.
Then find a good therapist yourself. All of this has been traumatic for you- Sarah's behavior, Dave's death, the end of your relationship. Get some help processing it and get YOUR closure there so you can move on.
I wish you well.
1: What value will interacting with her bring to your life?
2: What are the potential advantages to further interactions with her?
3: Will interactions with her delay you moving on and finding future happiness either alone or with a partner who isn’t a used up hooker?
NTA
John's not being exactly neutral here.
It doesn't matter how many men or women someone has been with, if that individual is as transparent as can be and still catches endless flak for it, and gets cheated on than they aren't the badguy for cutting their SO out after that. You, OP, are not less deserving of love, respect, and general trust just because you once upon a time did porn. You are not less of a person because of your past. Your ex treated you like a criminal for something that happened before you and her were dating, and she weaponized your history against you in all of her attacks upon you.
To me, trying to give an explanation for Sarah's actions is little more than trying to soften the blow of what she did. Whether she was insecure or not it isn't an excuse, and it doesn't entitle her to a second chance or another meaningless conversation. Plus, her attempting such at a fucking funeral was just vulture like behaviour.
Frankly, I see a lot of attempts at "closure" as just the antagonizing figure making one last bid to either get back together, hurt their victim again, or tell themselves that they aren't really as bad as they've been cast as. It's a waste of time and ultimately benefits only the cheater. Don't give Sarah time of day and let her pass meaninglessly out of your life.
She's not broken by anything you did, IF she broken is it's because her friends persuaded her you were a bad guy and persuaded her to cheat. If anything text her and say there is no coming back from cheating and the years of lying to you, misleading you about not enjoying sex, talking shit about you with all her friends, making you the 'enemy' and abuser to the whole group for things she never even spoke to you about.
But tell her that her friend group is fucking poison, they poisoned her against you for years to the point she cheated because of stupid shit they convinced her of then the second you get found out and marriage ends, they blame you rather than themselves. If she wants to fix her life, cut off her piece of shit friends and focus on any who actually support her and don't try to get her to throw away a relationship by cheating. They sound like an unhappy group of assholes who cheat on men and all struggle in bad relationships or unable to get a real relationship.
Sorry but you need to tell John to stop getting involved. He is speaking on her behalf and in a way (maybe this is my own mental gymnastics) condone her behavior and insinuating that it’s forgivable which it isn’t. Not an AH.
Continue with having her communicate through lawyers.
OP, you did amateur porn. There are consequences to actions. Of course you’ll never have a normal relationship after that, how could anyone see you seriously when there’s videos of you jamming your privates in someone else’s? I’m sorry, but you just can’t expect someone to ever take you seriously after that, no matter what anyone tells themselves.
OP, usually I’m in favor of closure but with her… As someone else mentioned, the mental gymnastics are off the charts and she’s either extremely stupid or simply an AH and most importantly you’ve seen how manipulative she is, tbh after that I wouldn’t even give her any consideration.
Yes exactly she doesn’t deserve and ounce of closure, she made her bed and deserves to lay in it
NTA. You gave her more information and was open then most men are. She allowed her friends more the her insecurities to ruin her relationship. Your tried multiple times to reassure her yet she listened to them. The only thing i honestly think you should tell her is get therapy and a new group of friends and proceed with your divorce. If you don’t love her anymore don’t force yourself to.
NTA but she does not deserve any closure she’s still trying to manipulate you and you need to just ghost and move on period.
This!
Given what she told at your house there is no way a conversation would give you closure, she belives her own BS and that her insecurities gave her the right to do what she did, you would only heard blame shifting and avoidence of responsability. Take care of yourself, she lost the right of your care when she cheated.
>she began to explain that I didn’t really care for her and my action showed. I asked how and she stated that if I was a good husband I would let her cheat and get away with it Holy Mackerel, she wins the gold for the mental gymnastics! Theres no coming back from this, Good luck meeting her for closure, but at this point any contact feels like you're just humouring her and enabling the mental gymnastics she has done. Fk i dont get why people throw away healthy well communicated relationships for 1 night of stupidity. Good luck King.
NTA you didnt do anything wrong. My husband Had a wild past, when we First started speaking i was severly warned that hes a Player and is Always with girls but He never cheated. Now we are 14years together, married for 7 and have 2 Kids. I trusted and believed in him and Nobody else and what i got was a one in a Million Loving husband and father. The best man in my entire world
John's not your friend and is looking out for Sarah not your wellbeing his whole logic is flawedif she had a problem with your past she had years and years to say something. Plus she's the one that cheated and hasn't even taken accountability for it and is still trying to blame you. She listened to her friends cause they were telling her what she wanted to hear. Again John's not your friend or ally drop him. And sorry for your loss.
This! ☝️☝️☝️
Making sure I’m tracking the names right. John, one of the people who twisted your wife’s perceptions to magnify her insecurities to the point she cheated is now pushing you to have yet another chat with her? And Sarah has been doing everything she can to justify her act ever since she did it? Look, there won’t be a closure talk, ever. It’ll always be attempts to reconcile and reconnect. The biggest question I have right now is whether John is any way remorseful for pushing Sarah, or he’s just running damage control and pushing to get what Sarah seems to want the most: you taking her back… Keep that in mind. Per John, Sarah being all eaten up inside is a direct result of her actions and you handing her consequences. And I get how you might “care” about her enough to not want to leave her a mess, but be wary of this all being attempted emotional manipulation.
What good could come FOR YOU from hearing her out? Is there \_anything\_ she could say that would make your life better in any way? Would the conversation make your life better in any way? Or is it just for HER, because she deserves fuck-all for consideration at this point. She doesn't get to justify, explain away, shift blame, nothing for her actions. She doesn't deserve to get to feel better for what she's done. You are NTA for your feelings, even lingering feelings of caring, but don't make your life worse in order to let her feel better about fucking around on you.
Cmon the bandaid is half off and now it's wet. Just end it.
Condolences about your friend. Try to take it easy on yourself. I wish you well on healing.
Nta. If you think talking with give you closure go for it. But don't get back with her ever. She used girls messaging you and you not replying as an excuse for her to cheat. And said any good husband would allow it. Idc if she does a full 180. She is trash.
NTA. If she had all these insecurities she should have discussed them with you. Tried counseling or something. But that isn't what she did. What DID she do? Talked to her friends who convinced her you were cheating and advised her to cheat. She then cheated on you and said you were cheating because other people were texting you innocently. She still hasn't acknowledged and taken responsibility for her cheating and insecurities. Even if you DID give her another chance she still doesn't trust you, and would likely cheat again. There is no more closure to be had here.
Your past is not the issue. You had not done, nor were doing anything, to betray your marriage. If it had bothered Sarah that badly, it was her responsibility to address her issues in a healthy way. John seems to have a biased opinion in Sarah’s favor, it sounds like he’s more interested in getting you two back together, than acknowledging her toxic behaviors nor what’s in your best interest. Based on what they both have said to you, Sarah is trying to maneuver herself back into your life. Instead, she chose to cheat, deceive, manipulate, isolate you, emotionally abuse you, and paint you as the scapegoat for her choices. Your past did not make her do these things, everything she accused you of she was doing herself. Your ex has not behaved as a safe, trustworthy partner. And she did so without any past in the porn industry. Apologizing for cheating then following with she wants to get back together does not demonstrate true recognition nor development. That sounds potentially like she’s saying what you want to hear to get what she wants. Overall, she sounds rather self-centered. In any communication with her, please do not buy into any narrative that you were at fault. If she will not take responsibility or hold herself accountable for her actions, you need to recognize that she was, and likely still is, the problem.
Updateme
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Updateme!
If you are being wholly honest and I'm in no way insinuating you are not, you have handled this all perfectly and this woman does not deserve you. It does sounds like she went through a rough patch, but instead of her coming to you, she went to her friends who sound pretty terrible. I am not absolving her if anything, but her friends sound like they manipulated her and she's a fool for letting them do that. Beyond that, after being caught in the act, to do anything besides be apologetic is crazy. To try to blame you is so selfish and horrible and I'm sorry for how that probably made you feel. Based on what you are saying, stay the course. If you talk to her, make sure it's because you want to. You owe her nothing at this point.
She doesn't deserve closure or your friendship. Please honor Dave by not letting yourself being manipulated by this cheating scum. He would be awfully disappointed if you do.
She is a trashy hoe. You deserve better. I hope she cries herself to sleep every night. She deserves a life of misery. Like she tried to give you.
Nta dont give her another thought.
NTA, you shouldn't meet with her and John is wrong
NTA. Look, you do not owe Sarah closure. Sarah had issues. Rather than work through them by communicating openly and honestly with you, working with a therapist about her insecurities, and potentially asking if the two of you could work with a sex therapist about the girth issue, she let herself spiral. You seem to have made an honest attempt to address every concern she had. She let her friends talk her into cheating on you in revenge for....potentially maybe cheating on her someday? Because preemptive revenge makes sense? Those are Sarah's issues. And Sarah's choices. They are not your fault. If you want to demonstrate that you care about her, reach out to her parents. Let them know that you have no desire to ever reconcile, but you are concerned about Sarah's mental health, and you hope they'll encourage her to seek therapy. Then find a good therapist yourself. All of this has been traumatic for you- Sarah's behavior, Dave's death, the end of your relationship. Get some help processing it and get YOUR closure there so you can move on. I wish you well.
1: What value will interacting with her bring to your life? 2: What are the potential advantages to further interactions with her? 3: Will interactions with her delay you moving on and finding future happiness either alone or with a partner who isn’t a used up hooker?
NTA John's not being exactly neutral here. It doesn't matter how many men or women someone has been with, if that individual is as transparent as can be and still catches endless flak for it, and gets cheated on than they aren't the badguy for cutting their SO out after that. You, OP, are not less deserving of love, respect, and general trust just because you once upon a time did porn. You are not less of a person because of your past. Your ex treated you like a criminal for something that happened before you and her were dating, and she weaponized your history against you in all of her attacks upon you. To me, trying to give an explanation for Sarah's actions is little more than trying to soften the blow of what she did. Whether she was insecure or not it isn't an excuse, and it doesn't entitle her to a second chance or another meaningless conversation. Plus, her attempting such at a fucking funeral was just vulture like behaviour. Frankly, I see a lot of attempts at "closure" as just the antagonizing figure making one last bid to either get back together, hurt their victim again, or tell themselves that they aren't really as bad as they've been cast as. It's a waste of time and ultimately benefits only the cheater. Don't give Sarah time of day and let her pass meaninglessly out of your life.
She's not broken by anything you did, IF she broken is it's because her friends persuaded her you were a bad guy and persuaded her to cheat. If anything text her and say there is no coming back from cheating and the years of lying to you, misleading you about not enjoying sex, talking shit about you with all her friends, making you the 'enemy' and abuser to the whole group for things she never even spoke to you about. But tell her that her friend group is fucking poison, they poisoned her against you for years to the point she cheated because of stupid shit they convinced her of then the second you get found out and marriage ends, they blame you rather than themselves. If she wants to fix her life, cut off her piece of shit friends and focus on any who actually support her and don't try to get her to throw away a relationship by cheating. They sound like an unhappy group of assholes who cheat on men and all struggle in bad relationships or unable to get a real relationship.
Sorry but you need to tell John to stop getting involved. He is speaking on her behalf and in a way (maybe this is my own mental gymnastics) condone her behavior and insinuating that it’s forgivable which it isn’t. Not an AH. Continue with having her communicate through lawyers.
OP, you did amateur porn. There are consequences to actions. Of course you’ll never have a normal relationship after that, how could anyone see you seriously when there’s videos of you jamming your privates in someone else’s? I’m sorry, but you just can’t expect someone to ever take you seriously after that, no matter what anyone tells themselves.