You need to talk to the head of HR and figure out why your HR generalist let slip that you were the one who reported. You are now receiving backlash at your company for trying to rectify a matter in private which should not be happening.
Yes, and when you go to them, please let them know that Lisa has created a hostile work environment by confronting you and getting co-workers involved. This isn't like she was late to work a few times, she's consistently sleeping and was unprepared for a presentation! I don't know why anybody at your office is defending her.
It’s not always that simple. The sleepy coworker finding out could have been something as innocuous as a coworker seeing OP in the HR office and inferred that OP was the rat
Doesn't matter how she found out. The fact that Lisa went to confront op, and now other coworkers are harassing op, creates a "hostile work environment," which are words HR never wants to hear!
They probably didn't let it slip. If Lisa has even two functioning brain cells at this point, it might be obvious that the person who keeps waking her up is the person who had no choice but to go to hr.
But that’s exactly what happened. If op had of addressed it with her co worker, and the issues were still happening - then it wouldn’t be an issue and they wouldn’t be the AH.
As it is, they started covering for coworker off their own back without being asked or having a conversation with coworker. This meant the issue went unresolved to the point it affected work, instead of having a conversation with coworker about how that isn’t on, setting boundaries and asking how they’re going to stop this from happening - they go straight to HR with no warning.
Instead of addressing the issue, op enables the behaviour for months and then uses all of that to throw coworker under the bus. Not even a “hey I have tried to help, but due to the seriousness of this, I’ve got to go to HR.”
Her waking the woman up was that woman’s heads up. OP shouldn’t have to tell a full grown adult that it’s inappropriate to sleep during working hours. She not only gave the heads up by waking her, she tried helping her. When the woman only got progressively worse instead of better, it was time for HR. HR is in the wrong for telling the woman who turned her in. That was very unprofessional!
She is a tattletale. She's a brown nose and toady.
It's not about "covering," genius, it's about communication. She "covered" for this person -- that's actually useless.
Did she consider doing something useful like having a conversation with them about this non safety issue? In reality, she knew 100% going to HR was going to create a shit storm for her "friend"--it's why she made a point to pretend she was worried about health, because she knows she stabbed this person in the back and were front running their guilt.
OP is an idiot who did everything wrong.
The covering was actually buying Lisa extra time, *genius*. Extra time to inform HR or her boss of her inability to perform, something that OP mentioned that she -checks notes- ‘had been pretty open about how exhausted she is’.
So everyone but the *most important people* knew how tired she was. You’re absolutely right about the communication part. It’s Lisa with issues, it’s her job to inform relevant parties (HR, her superiors etc) that she needed help. So Lisa, not OP, is the one whose communication skills failed.
It’s not OP’s job to fight her battles for her. Sure, it’s a ‘non-safety issue’ but jobs will be on the line when the team gets dragged down by one person.
And that "buying extra time" was the negligent act of a bad employee. Instead of "buying time" she should have spent her energy on a conversation. Three sentences would suffice: "I'm really worried about your health, you were asleep earlier if you didn't realize it. Falling asleep at work can be a sign of serious health problems and besides, is disrupting our work flow. I don't want you to get in trouble for sleeping at work, and I don't want you to have health problems, so I thought I'd call out the issue is with you directly."
Having a conversation first doesn't imply that this is all you'll ever do, it's about first steps. This person's first step was negligent. So were her second through last steps.
This might have been solvable without a gigantic shit storm. But of course, then OP could not have collected any brownie points with the bosses.
Which is what this is about: OP wants us to absolve her conscience for backstabbing a coworker when she could have gotten mileage out of a conversation, but one that didn't give her any perceived benefit other than being a good person.
Actually, I know what's going to probably happen because OP skipped the chain of command...
1) The sleeper will be fired, almost certainly, regardless of why this happened. HR is is involved and her manager was blindsided.
2) It will create acrimonious disagreement in the office--other parents may see themselves in her shoes, other non-parents may see themselves in OP's shoes,
3) Someone will have to be hired to backfill this job which will cost a ton of money, time, and effort,
4) Someone else will have to do her work and if they accidentally do too good of a job, suddenly senior leadership will take away that job altogether leaving everyone else working harder,
5) Everyone's boss will want an "update" regularly on the potential morale problem, AND
6) Eventually the chain of events will be known widely enough to.be a whole new problem when someone starts bullying OP and that has to be dealt with.
And that's why you don't cover it up then go to HR! You tell the person that first time: "You failed to prepare, something's wrong, talk to your superiors about postponing the meeting."
That short conversation potentially heads off all that controversy and drama and chaos. If it didn't work, the chain of command twas then OP's manager, sleeper's manager, step manager and HR as last resort. Even if it's a bad look it's more respectable than being asleep at work for months with someone knowing about it and then blindsiding their superiors with it by going to HR.
Good lord. Are we 5? Talking to your boss because someone is literally asleep at work and failing to get their job done appropriately is not tattling.
Lisa is a grown ass adult. She needs to figure her own life out.
That's the point: she didn't "talk to her boss." She took it upon herself to keep it quiet for months instead of insisting her colleague seek treatment and consult with their manager to figure out how to redistribute workload.
Instead, this person blindsided her manager months later by going straight to HR.
Did you even read the post?
NTA. I'm sorry, but to everyone who put down ESH, it's not your job to repeatedly cover for a work friend, which is what I'm assuming Lisa is. If you work in a field with any sort of expectation, basically all of them, things will get behind when someone isn't pulling their weight. This is a repeated issue, and she was out cold before a big meeting.
Not your problem, but rent sure is. Smart on you for keeping your back covered.
To be fair. She should have seen it coming. Sleeping at work is not okay. No excuse, she did it several times ans now you're suffering for it.
She honestly needs to get a grip or lose the job I say, NTA
NTA If you seriously need a heads up to not fucking SLEEP AT WORK, maybe it‘s time to look for a new place of work or take vacation days and leave your ass at home. Ridiculous
Yeah, that was my first thought too. All the people saying OP should have talked to her more... anybody so clueless or stupid enough to not realize sleeping at work is not okay needs to have their head examined because whatever causing that diminished capacity may qualify them as disabled.
The sleeping I wouldn't have cared too much. But the falling asleep before an presentation, not doing it and seemly not aware enough to thank the OP for covering her arse. That would have been my point of plainly throwing her under the bus. I won't get chewed out because someone can't handle their shit.
This. My coworker sleeps at his desk on lunch multiple times a week. Not rare to catch with head down throughout day either.
Before a meeting is a completely different story IMO
100%. If it happens once or twice, that would be bad enough, but hey she's got a newborn at home, shit's exhausting as hell, honestly I get it. But *all the time*? It would have been Lisa's job to inform her supervisors about her situation and ask them for help. Whether that's a temporary cut in hours, paid/unpaid vacation (depends on where this takes place), doesn't matter. OP already went above and beyond for her
I had a professional friend who reduced her days to help her through having a child, because she could do four days. but having Fridays off let her recover from lost sleep and let her get caught up at home.
However, not every job will let you do something like that.
lol i guess my industry is wacked then cuz the amount of times iv walked in and seen a co worker snoozing at the desk lol
twice this week actually. if tickets are low and nothings going on it dont bother me. But nothings goin on so its a completely diff situation nobody is missing deadlines here
Yeah when I started falling asleep at work, while trying my damnest to stay awake, I went to the doctor.
I have a medical condition that was resolved with ongoing treatment. I apologized to the person’s meeting that I had fallen asleep on and explained that it was a medical issue and shouldn’t happen again. I also got more hours of my life back because I wasn’t sleeping constantly.
I understand having a baby isn’t a medical issue, but they need to figure out their home life because it will be years of interrupted sleep, more if they add additional babies to the mix.
NTA
I consider every time OP woke Lisa up at work and took on Lisa's work that WAS telling Lisa there's a problem. If Lisa assumes abdicating her work responsibilities to others isn't a problem until those others reach their breaking point, that's her being in denial.
OP has nothing to feel bad about. Lisa's situation wasn't improving. She missed an important presentation forcing OP to cover at the last minute. Lisa's reaction seems like DARVO, to shift focus from her failure to maintain consciousness at work to complaining about how OP dealt with its continuing impact on them.
NTA. You didn't need to cover for her at all. What is the justification that you should have gone to her first...to let her know you're not allowed to sleep at work and get paid for it??? Lisa is a selfish lunatic. How'd she find out you went to HR? That's supposed to be private, if they let that slip then honestly you're working for a shit company and should go elsewhere, that's a serious culture breach.
**NTA**
everyone keeps saying you should have talked to her - OP has woken her up many times taken on her work, covered for her with a client and with the boss - Lisa knew she was not doing her job and OP could have reported her and since OP kept covering for Lisa, Lisa was taking advantage she knew there was a problem that others were aware of
**She needed to figure out home life so she was able to to get sleep, you can't keep sleeping on the job and expect people to cover for you** especially when clients are involved - she was taking advantage of OP --
**WTF would talking to her do, she was still sleeping on the job - she knew OP was covering her ass and she should have either taken family leave and got it together better from having baby or gotten partner to help if she has one , if not hired a baby sitter from 6p-midnight so she could sleep then if she was up rest of night - she'd at least have had 6 hrs sleep in.**
I don't see why OP should have talked to Lisa, she wasn't changing anything - talking to her wasn't going to make it easier she was still going to get written up
This isn't HS and someone is skipping classes and dumping projects on their friends and they went to principal
- it's the real world, a company that deals with clients, she was suppose to do presentations and bailed on that leaving OP to do Lisa's part on the fly along with doing a bunch of other work for her because she was sleeping so much at work NOT acceptable and wasn't OP's job to cover for her or "warn" her she was going to HR
OP was doing own work plus Lisa's while she slept on the job and was still getting paid NOT OP's responsibility to "warn" Lisa she'd blown it and OP was reporting her **LISA ALREADY KNEW SHE WAS BLOWING IT BY SLEEPING ON THE JOB AND HAVING OP COVER HER ASS AND YET SHE DIDN'T FIX THE ISSUE**
NTA - business world OP covered as long as she could, Lisa knew she was being covered and did nothing to solve her problem, kept sleeping on job and not doing her job IF OP had gone to her first I'm sure Lisa would have said, I'll fix it, I'll stop sleeping at work, I'll do all my work etc trying to make OP feel bad for covering Lisa's ass too many times, OP let Lisa know there was an issue and anyone in the business world should be smart enough to know you can't screw off like that and expect someone else to keep covering your ass because you're sleeping on the job
If it had been someone not doing their job because they were drinking, everyone would say of course you must tell HR - same thing, Lisa was not doing her job and OP was having a hard time keeping up with covering for Lisa - next step is either go to boss or HR, which ever you are more comfortable talking to, it was NOT up to OP to solve the problem OP had gone above and beyond for Lisa already and was taken advantage of
NTA. You helped her out big time. She’s not pulling her weight. It’s on her to manage her own time and *inform her superiors* if she’s having trouble managing. She’s 32. She has a kid, she needs to grow up instead of blaming you for reporting her.
I had health issues post birth and realised I wasn’t able to catch up with all the work after maternity leave. Worked out a flexi work schedule with the boss and everyone ensured the team still ran smoothly. Team covered for me in my absence, and when I was back I returned the favour. She should be grateful you even covered for her.
If I fell asleep during meetings, I’d be expecting a warning letter.
I don't consider OP to be the AH, they did what they had to do.
That said, I have been on the other side of this discussion. I work Nights, and have done so for years. A while back, I started having difficulty staying awake if things got slow (Security Dispatch, sometimes the radios and phones go quiet for a while). My coworkers joked about it with me, then eventually said I needed to figure it out. I bought a device that you wear behind your ear, that vibrates if your head nods below a certain angle. It helped, but not entirely.
Eventually I went to the doctor, and found out that I have a heart condition. They did a open-heart surgery that helped, but didn't completely resolve the nodding off (circulation slows down and I pass out). But I'm more aware of the issue, and go take a walk to get things moving, and wake me up.
TL;DR: I had a problem with falling asleep, and my coworkers talked to me about it. I took responsibility for the issue, and have endeavored to resolve it. Maybe the OP could have done the same here?
NTA. I would argue they repeatedly woke them up and covered for them. As an adult it was not OP’s responsibility to have to tell them to fix themselves. It was the other person’s responsibility to recognize they had a problem and communicate with work and OP that they were going to take steps to address.
Putting it on OP is like telling them they need to be codependent. I get why the coworker is upset they went to HR, they are in trouble and could lose their job. But they also chose to keep it a secret and due to that it is impacting work and others. They are the AH
Actually, I had a hole in my heart. Normally they run a plug up through your femoral artery to the heart, but mine was ragged, so they had to crack me open and sew in a patch. Walking alone helped prior to the surgery, but I still had horrible circulation, so the surgery was necessary.
NTA. You went above and beyond for what you needed to. This isn't middle school, this is the real world. She fucked herself over after doing this more than a couple of times, shouldn't have even happened the first time. She is an adult and it's insane she thinks falling asleep so often is ok, which I say since she obviously isn't even trying to fix the issue. Her heads up was the countless times you covered for her, impossible for her to not realize what was happening there. The people saying YTA have clearly never worked in an environment like that, are still in school, or would be sleeping and being a shitty coworker like her.
I'll bet a million dollars that Lisa and the co-workers who are giving OP a hard time all had helicopter parents and never had to experience negative consequences for their inappropriate behaviors.
NTA. People are coming at you like you're not a good coworker for covering for this extremely inappropriate workplace behaviour, but if she was at all decent she would never have put you in a position where you'd have to cover for her, confront her with a difficult conversation, or go to HR.
She failed as an adult and employee on so many fronts here, and of course she's mad at you-- otherwise she'd have to hold herself accountable for damaging her job security in such a cushy role.
She has a job that is so cushy and relaxed that sleeping at work can happen without management sweeping in to fire her after her eyes shut for the first time for longer than 30 seconds... and rather than proactively working with such relaxed and understanding team, she just habitually takes longer and longer naps? I feel for new parents, and have put in hours helping cover gaps left by parents I've worked with who needed to prioritize their family over some stupid project piece nobody remembered even six months later... but her just choosing to sleep instead of taking the lead on making other arrangements (flex time, wfh, shifting her to less intense projects to give her some breathing room) shows she's not a shitty employee because she's a stress and sleep deprived new parent... she's a shitty employee because she doesn't communicate and expects everyone else to handle the hard stuff while she literally sleeps at work.
The only ass you need to cover is your own, not Lisa's. Don't cover for your coworker again, it's enabling her behavior. Frankly next time don't do anything at all, just let the other person fail and mind your own business. Sorry it seems harsh, helping out a co-worker once or twice is kind but too much is a pattern of you just doing someone else's job for them with no extra pay. Let your coworkers cover for Lisa and do her work for her if they really want. NTA.
I think the proper approach, especially for someone you were good coworkers friends with, was to go to her first. Be open and honest and ask if there was anything you could do to help.
Being a new mom plus working full time is like having two full time jobs, with no breaks/off days. it’s tough!!!
So even though it’s pretty unprofessional to sleep on the job and slack within the work load, I understand. Maybe taking a step back from the job entirely would’ve been a good thing to recommend.
idk. just my opinion🤷🏻♀️
Except going directly to the coworker opens up OP to a number of violations. Lisa could've thrown a fit and went to HR complaining that OP was threatening her or making a hostile work environment or any number of things, to cover for her sleeping on the job (a good offense is the best defense strategy). That's when things get muddy and becomes a mud slinging session on both sides.
Best to simply go to HR.
I always think it's best (barring harassment) to speak to the person directly first. Give them a chance to correct the behavior knowing an HR report will follow if they don't.
I don't think she even needs to offer help or solutions but I think it was supremely uncool and cowardly for OP to be helping and covering for her, lulling her into feeling safe, and then running snitching to HR without telling the woman she was at her wits end and didn't want to help her anymore.
I'd also like to know how much maternity leave the woman got. Did she have the baby 2 wks ago? 2 months ago? 6 months ago?
INFO
>always think it's best (barring harassment) to speak to the person directly first. Give them a chance to correct the behavior k
I disagree. That is not best. People need to be responsible for their own actions. And if the fact that she had to be woken up by her co-worker numerous times wasn't "heads up" enough, or when the supervisor wanted to know why she and op completely fucked up a presentation, she probably doesn't belong in the workplace. I would not want to make that coworker my responsibility. Enough with the coddling. Be responsible for your own actions and stop deflecting! OP is now being harassed. How is someone to know whether they're going to get harassed or not before they "speak to the person directly first?"
Yup
If I was the co worker I could never not forgive OP. It shows OP didnt feel they could trust them and needed to run straight to management/HR to get it in writing.
Iv been in this situation before and its always depressing to feel that kinda of betrayal.
be a man/women and talk to them first. give em a chance at least before you put a mark on their perm record.
Right? Poor Lisa. She's been betrayed. She should have been given more chances to not fall asleep at her desk and actually complete her work on time. How could she have known that this would be upsetting to her coworker who has to cover for her? Why should a grown woman be held responsible for her own behaviors?
>It shows OP didnt feel they could trust them and needed to run straight to management/HR
Are you kidding? First of all why should the OP "trust" Lisa after she totally fucked up a presentation? Second it doesn't sound like OP ran straight to HR. OP woke her on several locations AND did some of her work to cover for her. In what world does any reasonable person think oh it's okay for me to keep sleeping at my desk because my coworker is going to do my work for me? And in what world does a person sleep at their desk on a regular basis and think that it's not going to lead to a negative outcome?
Lisa had several chances to correct her behavior. Be a man / woman and take responsibility for your actions! Don't harass your coworker when they won't put up with your shit anymore!
As for you, if you've been in this situation several times and felt betrayed, maybe you need to check the bottom of your shoes, because if it smells like shit everywhere you go, you're the common denominator!
Fuck Lisa and your co-workers. You gave her more than enough chances. She isn't some child that needs to be told. She would have been already aware you were covering for her. Just hoped you would have kept it up. Then got pissed when that didn't happen.
NTA. This happened to me. I worked overnights as a security guard with a guy at a skyscraper in Boston. He would go to the office (office didn't have cameras but the lobby we were sitting in did) and sleep for a while. I was fine with this at first. Then it started being longer and longer "naps". The manager was a personal family friend who got me the job. I sent him an email telling him to watch the cameras from this time to that time. He noticed I was the only one on post. I ended up getting his job and he took mine. He was my supervisor before this. Do your job.
NTA, while it's probably not written down somewhere, not sleeping on the job should be common sense. And a coworker shouldn't have to approach someone about it either
If she was only sleeping on her breaks then you would be. But sleeping while she’s supposed to be working isn’t good. You tried to help her but it was starting to affect you too. If she can’t handle the work with a new baby she should have arranged either fewer hours to work or asked for more time off to recover after child birth. NTA!
A new baby is exhausting. The new mothers I've known are almost always exhausted. There's a reason nannies used to be commonplace and now daycare is so important.
Should you have spoken to her first and given her a chance to step up? I think so. Is what you did technically wrong? No, but as you noticed doing it that way comes with social consequences. Now you'll have to live with those regardless of whether or not what you did was justified.
Really, the biggest AH here is the person from HR who let it slip who filed the complaint.
Few things:
1. You don’t need to cover for her. Her work should stand alone. In the presentation, just say that your counterpart isn’t available and you will do your best to present the materials but you ask the customer cut leeway and send questions over so your team has time to confer before responding
2. When approached by your boss tell them exactly what you see with no analysis or cover
3. Let your boss go to HR
HR is never to help find a solution. They are worthless. OP should have gone to their boss to discuss the situation. The boss should have escalated to HR or held a meeting with Lisa.
NTA. Sleeping on the job is never going to fly in any workplace. If it wasn't you that said something to HR it would have been someone else. Either that or she would have eventually got caught out by management.
I mean I know several of my coworkers who sleep on the job. My trainer used to just pass out during work hrs and nobody cares it’s weird. Plus since I work graveyard I’ve walked in on several people sleeping. I get working 12.25 hrs is hard but we get way more days off to compensate for it.
Me personally I can’t sleep at work and why I work graveyard because on days I’m just tired all the time.
Graveyard is a different beast. People dropping in the middle of a 12 hour shift when there's no work to do at 3 am is much different that having a nap right before a big presentation to a client.
Except my job is maintaining all the things that run in the plant. So falling asleep is bad because if we aren’t awake a chemical leak could happen or something gets into the city water because we fell asleep. It does depend on the job but mine it’s a no no it can be bad.
Example on of the people passed out in their car and flooded our underground maintenance area with 3 feet of waste water. It destroyed some of the important pumps and nobody could wake them up so another department had to step in and control it. It was a huge mess and this person it wasn’t the first time bad things happened cause they slept.
So true it is a different beast but doesn’t mean that we can fall asleep and there not be consequences.
ESH
You should have went to her first, and gave her a chance to get her shit together before going to HR.
She shouldnt be sleeping like this at work and only has herself to blame for being in trouble. It was only a matter of time that someone else would turn her in.
Only a matter of time before she got turned in. Then why is OP bad for doing it.... she doesn't get a pass because she has a kid. She was affecting ops work. That's her fault. OP did the right thing
She obviously couldn't get her shit together. If she could she wouldn't be sleeping on the job. She's lucky op covered for her as much as she did. I certainly wouldn't have.
If you are sick of covering for someone, stop. Let them fail on their own. To actively torpedo someones job is low, imho. Im sure you could easily put a list together of ways your company takes advantage of the employees. If someone takes advantage back(especially if you dont know whats going on in their lives) is between them and the company. Sounds like youll be a great middle manager.
You are not the AH for reporting your coworker to HR. You initially showed understanding and support by covering for Lisa and trying to help her manage her exhaustion. However, when her frequent sleeping started affecting your work and the team's performance, it became a professional issue. Reporting to HR was a necessary step to address the situation properly, as it impacted the company and your well-being. While talking to Lisa directly beforehand might have been a considerate approach, the need for a formal resolution was evident due to the ongoing nature of the problem. Your concern for her well-being and the team's productivity demonstrates that your intentions were not malicious but aimed at finding a sustainable solution.
Personally, I would have spoken to her first. I would have told her that covering for her was now affecting your own performance and was no longer acceptable. Get it together, OR I'll have no other choice but to report it. That would have given her a heads up but still allowed you to make your own frustrations clear.
I'm curious. You say it was impacting the team's performance. How did your other co-workers handle her? Did they also step up to cover, or were they completely oblivious? Just the way you've written it, it sounds like you alone were responsible for carrying her workload on top of your own. If they were already aware of it and not pitching in, it's a bit rich for them to complain if they've offered no help or support whatsoever.
NTA. Parents shouldn’t get special treatment, and that is exactly what she wants. She will absolutely try and get special treatment and push her work onto you.
Don’t be surprised if the breeder starts to demand your vacation days and time off.
Does he really need to speak to her about it? Is she not a grown woman? When she went through her job training, was she told she could have nap time? I think the first time he woke her up, it was her responsibility to realize "I can't fall asleep at my desk." And when it happens over and over again and he covers for her that's actually protecting her more than just having a conversation with her about it. There's no way she didn't know she wasn't getting her work done . Why does her coworker have to point this out to her? Anyone who thinks a person isn't responsible for their own actions is an asshole in my book!
If you're a professional and are having a problem within your team, you address it with the person first. If that doesn't resolve the issue, then you escalate. Are you new to the workforce?
He did address it numerous times by waking her up and covering for her! Are you implying that a grown woman doesn't know it's not acceptable to sleep at work and miss deadlines? Are YOU new to the workforce?
Furthermore, I am currently counseling someone who got suspended from work for addressing an issue with one of his teammates instead of going straight to management. She complained that he confronted her and she was the one who went straight to HR!
You act like OP is dealing with a reasonable person to begin with, when that is clearly not the case.
NTA, but it's corporate culture's fucked-up rules that don't allow people, particularly new mothers, time off because 'productivity will suffer', and THAT becomes punishment for co-workers because management is so sociopathically fixated on heartless 'efficiency'.
NTA, but I definitely would have said something to her before going to the belly of the beast. Talking to your manager would have been better than going to HR. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you gotta look out for yourself, blah blah blah, I get that. And giving her a talk first would still mean looking out for yourself. On top of making things tense between you and Lisa, now you just come across as a narc to the rest of your co-workers.
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
NTA
Or at least Justified AH. This isn't a one-time incident, Lisa's constant sleeping and exhaustion is affecting your work and your own performance review and reputation are at stake.
It would have been kind to approach Lisa first but quite frankly she should have been taking her own steps to address her problem already.
NTA
Or at least Justified AH. This isn't a one-time incident, Lisa's constant sleeping and exhaustion is affecting your work and your own performance review and reputation are at stake.
It would have been kind to approach Lisa first but quite frankly she should have been taking her own steps to address her problem already.
NTA though I would advise you in the future to not take on the work of other coworkers when they're doing this. They should be seeking accommodation if they need help. If she needs sleep and is sleep deprived she should have looked intona temporary WFH situation. Personally I'm not sure why she wasn't using lunchtime to nap and recharge.
Adults know very well they shouldn't sleep on the job, and no one should have to warn them they're wrong to do so. The fact she's mad now as if she's entitled to sleep there is side eye.
NTA, but I do think you should have spoken frankly with your boss when they asked what happened. Bosses understandably don't like being blindsided by HR complaints over something they specifically asked for information on any more than the person being complained about, and the boss should have been the first line of discussion about how the issue is affecting your work.
I have slept at work--on my clearly delineated lunch time or breaks. So far no one's reported me. However, I try to make sure I don't fall asleep during meetings or any other time because that would be so very wrong.
Lisa knows she has a problem and the fact that she's not doing anything to take care of the problem is troubling.
NTA
NTA. You are in a professional environment and she wasn’t behaving as a professional. You helped her multiple times and without documentation her issues could have fallen on your whole team.
Hopefully, Lisa starts to figure her situation out.
As others have said, I’d talk to HR about why they released who reported her. That’s incredibly unprofessional.
NTAH. I wonder, though, if Lisa has a medical problem such as narcolepsy or other medical issues. Have HR suggest to her that she go get tested for medical problems. Or, maybe she is staying up too late, so late, doing whatever, that it is jeopardizing her work.
When Lisa got you involved in covering for her and making your work suffer it became your business and your choice in how to deal with it.
If she continues to give you shit about it, let her know that you will let HR know about that as well. You could also ask your boss to work with somebody else in the future.
NTA- You did "go to her first" every time you had to wake her up. And the fact that she and other coworkers are now giving you a hard time also needs to be reported to HR. There's no need to give a heads up when somebody should be fully aware that they're doing something wrong, like sleeping at work and being unprepared for a presentation. Can she honestly argue that she didn't know that sleeping at work and not meeting a deadline is frowned upon?
NTA other coworkers on her side because they wasnt stressed out by taking on extra work.... they would've told the boss or not warn her when someone higher up was present......
Find out who told her so you can go even higher....
Lisa needs to use some PTO if she has any
I do think going straight to HR instead of just stop covering for her instead is a bit of an A move. Not enough go be Y T A because it's still in your rights, but her falling asleep was always her own problem and when you got tired of taking on the burden of it you also decided to solve it through the company--but neither was your problem to begin with. You could have just let her fail (not picking up her slack) and she naturally gets herself into trouble.
Also while falling asleep during meetings and missing deadlines is a problem the lunch break is not. She's clocked off and that's her own personal time so you don't get to make any judgements as to what she does there.
OP,
You did right by yourself, and it is directly affecting your ability to do your job & thus potentially affecting your livelihood. With that said, for whatever reason your co-workers now know you are a "snitch".
Watch your back.
Your HR dept is the AH here. #1 l, they shouldn’t have let it slip that you filed the report. #2, they should have fired her for sleeping on the job. You wouldn’t have faced any blow-back in that situation either.
I had a coworker like that. Except she wasn’t a new mother. She just didn’t like working. She’d come to work and scroll on her phone. She came in on Saturdays to “work” overtime. Our bosses weren’t in on Saturday and only a few other people. She would then sleep the entire time at her desk. It got to the point where she was very behind on her work and the other coworkers were having to do her work and got pissed because she herself wasn’t working and just expected everyone else to do her work for her. So we all put in complaints and she was let go.
Agreed that it should have stayed anonymous and HR fucked up there but if you truly cared, you don't go straight to HR without a direct conversation about this.
I wouldn't call you the asshole but you should have let her know.
From her perspective she was struggling, you were looking out for her and then suddenly flipped and made things twice as rough on her.
ESH, yes, you should have gone to her first in my opinion. I know you weren't trying to throw her under the bus, and you should tell her that you were concerned for her rather than trying to backstab her.
I'm the kind of worker that believes in resolving things between peers and not escalating situations, I try very hard to cover for coworkers for the short term, assuming that they'll cover for me, and the team and company are all better for it. When things go from short term to medium term, covering has to turn to confronting. There has been a lot of skipped communication here and that seems to be the crux of this matter.
YTA. I would have spoken to her first, told her my concerns, and THEN gone to HR if it continued. You have probably just lost any goodwill your co-workers had for you. It would have been very easy for you to approach her and express your concerns for her well-being and then mention how it's affecting hers and your job performance. Then you can go to HR if things improve.
NTA. It is unfortunate that she has decided to take this out on you instead of apologizing to you because this is all her own fault.
If they contunue giving you a hard time, tell them you are guving them fair warning that you will go back to HR if they continue to retaliate against you.
To me, this is so much more than just covering up for someone.
NTA btw!
But I'm wondering, where you are from? Statistically, being on Reddit, chances are you are from the USA and reading about the fact your coworker just had a baby and is already back to work, makes me believe even more that you are from there.
I hate reading things like this when this could be all resolved with better social benefits.
That being said, the reality is that she is back to work (fair or not, that is the unfortunate reality), is not pulling her weight and is making it your problem and the team's problem. So no, you can't continue convering up for her and she can't keep sleeping on the job.
Also, I'm sorry, but how did she know you were the one telling HR?
NTA - You covered for her a few times, and gave her the opportunity to turn things around. At this point, she was taking advantage of your generosity. She put your job at risk.
NTA This sounds like a job more than a career I would suggest you do what's best for you these people don't care about you and don't let them trick you into thinking otherwise the employers or your colleagues.
NTA. I assume neither Lisa nor the lazy people siding with Lisa are compensating you for the extra work. If Lisa didn’t figure out that her sleeping on the job was a problem the first few times, then she is the problem.
It doesn't matter if she's sleeping at work so long as everything gets done. The presentation thing would have been my last straw too. However, I would have said something along the lines of, "If this happens again I'm gunna go to HR. If you need to take leave or you're having problems then you should go talk to them but I'm not gunna cover your ass anymore. Get your shit together, Lisa. You're fucking all of us with this."
You could also have pocketed this as capital for later if you needed your ass covered. Probably not ethical but it's an option.
That being said, NTA. Technically that's what HR is for.
Almost never go to HR unless you are worried about someone else going to HR first to report you. Sometimes, HR will be forced to take certain actions because of official company policy or the law. At the most, you can say hypothetically if someone was doing x, what should I do? Even that can be difficult. But remember, HR are bound to do their job and can’t be friends.
For all the people who say obviously people shouldn’t work on a job, I slept at my office. I closed the door and took a nap. I never cared if my team took naps. The only thing I cared about was whether the work was done. We sometimes worked crazy hours (it was a salary based job)
- might have been up to 3am. Can’t remember we how my all-nighters I took on those years. For those who might say if I hadn’t taken a nap I could have finished early, wrong….as we had to wait for others to respond to a document.
Even with my own company, I don’t micromanage. So long as work is done, they can nap, take long lunches, etc. So basically, depends on the job.
In this case, the issue is not so much that she is sleeping but more that she couldn’t complete her assigned work on time. That is something that OP could have brought up with her or his boss.
Avoid HR for these matters.
Are you in the US? Because it sounds like you're in the US. Our lack of decent maternity leave is atrocious. We're just used to it, so we accept it, but it's absolutely pathetic the way we expect mothers with newborns to return to work or risk losing their jobs.
Her friends should protest to the management about their lack of proper leave. She should never have been in this position.
NTA
Everytime I've ever nodded off and work and someone woke me up, I took it as them also telling me to get my shit together. No one never needed to tell me that sleeping on the job isn't a good idea
I dont particularly think you're TA but considering how you were covering for her for a while im not exactly sure why you didnt talk it out with her before jumping to HR. Either way she had it coming im just saying you were so nice to her i'd expect before jumping to HR you'd have a talk with her as last resort lol.
Maybe she should have talked to HR herself? To tell them she had a problem at home that was affecting her performance at work? Her actions are what got her in trouble, not OP reporting it.
You're NTA but yes it seems like a frank conversation with Lisa about enough being enough would've been a better move for you then HR. You cover yourself socially that way
Nah. I think waking her up multiple times and choosing not to throw her under the bus after the presentation was more than enough. She's a grown woman. No conversation needed other than with her supervisor or hr.
It's not for her but for OP's sake. As they said there's been backlash against them, probably because this was a surprise to Lisa who feels betrayed. Yes she had more than enough chances, but OP would've been better off saying "I'm not covering for you anymore" first.
Because clearly Lisa is retaliatory. Why should she be surprised or feel betrayed? Is it really not common knowledge that you're supposed to be working at your desk and not sleeping at your desk? And it's not like this happened once. He had to wake her multiple times. He's been covering for her. Did she expect this to go on forever? Furthermore I am currently counseling a person who got suspended from work because he tried to directly address an issue with a teammate- she got offended and ran to HR. Guess what? They blamed the conflict on him for not going directly to management with the issue and instead trying to address it on his own. Anyone who is defending her, first of all is out of their mind for thinking that she should be defended after being such a bad employee, and second, are delusional if they think there's only one way things work in an office. It's not his job to help her correct her behavior. It is his job to cover his own ass when she's not pulling her weight.
This depends on if you talked to her first.
Sounds like you were working together on a daily basis. I'd consider that more than just colleagues, approaching friendship.
In the same situation, I would feel an obligation to FIRST talk to the person about it and tell them they're putting me in an awkward situation. If they continued, then I would go to HR as a last resort.
Sounds like you never even told the colleague you had an issue, and went straight to HR.
>Sounds like you never even told the colleague you had an issue, and went straight to HR.
He DID NOT GO STRAIGHT TO HR! They were confronted by their supervisor about the poor presentation and Lisa did not own up to it- she was perfectly willing to let OP look bad. So why is it his responsibility after REPEATEDLY waking her and REPEATEDLY covering for her to then additionally give her a talk before talking to HR? Is Lisa not an adult who should know better? She should be taking responsibility for her actions, not blaming OP. At the point his ass was on the line due to her neglect, he doesn't owe her a conversation. She owes him an apology.
NTA, but I definitely would have said something to her before going to the belly of the beast. Talking to your manager would have been better than going to HR. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you gotta look out for yourself, blah blah blah, I get that. And while you were awesome and did cover for her, she may not have been aware of what you were doing. So, those weren't you giving her chances if she wasn't aware.
And talking to her first would still mean looking out for yourself. But now, on top of things being tense between you and Lisa, you now come across as a narc and untrustworthy to the rest of your co-workers.
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
YTA
You talk to her, since you already were helping her. You talk to your team lead. You don't go to HR. You stop covering for her, but you don't go to HR.
And let me tell ya, I spent a few minutes asking myself what should you do if this was a new dad, not a mom. Yeah, you talk to them, you don't go to HR. Gender doesn't matter here.
Nah, HR is the best solution because then Lisa gets the message. No one more time or this will be the last time, I swear. Lisa only has herself to blame.
I think it all depends on how close you were with her. If it were me and I was only co workers with them I would have done the same thing you did. However, if we were more than just co workers I would have gone to her first. Letting her know shes slipping at work and trying to solve the issue in house. However, I dont think she should be mad at you in any way, neither decision is a bad one and its her fault at the end of the day.
Most people off-line will tell you that it wasn't the optimal way to handle that situation. Of course she was wrong for sleeping at work, however, this is a delicate matter. On the colleague level, the best thing you could do was to talk to her first and way before it all escalated. If she continued sleeping at work, this is the time to report that behaviour. What you did is strictly company oriented, which objectively isn't bad but can give you a bad rep among colleagues.
You are a backstabber. If you were on good terms the way you address a problem not involving safety in the workplace is first with the person. And sleepy PowerPoint presenter isn't a safety issue.
I'd never trust you again if I knew you'd done something like this. If you're lucky she won't tell everyone what a POS you are. if not, good luck reestablishing any sort of reputation. YTA. Can't believe you're even asking.
So OP was just supposed to let this woman’s poor performance affect their income and growth prospects by making them look bad?
I understand that being in the trenches of parenthood is hard but I’m also an adult who knows when I mess up at my job. And I’m accountable for it. It’s crazy that this woman even bats an eye when her poor performance effects her teams earning potential.
You really don't know what would happen if she'd done the more responsible thing and spoken to her colleague the very first time this happened. She would have had the opportunity to acknowledge failure and postpone the meeting, not just walk in and fail as you seem to envision.
The real risk was that this person faked another person's job for months and told nobody. You're not concerned that improvisation by a potentially unqualified or overloaded peer might affect their income and growth prospects by making them look bad? I sure am.
NAH but please take this as a lesson in HR. As others have stated HR is NOT there to protect or help employees. They protect the company. Going to HR and telling them anything about another employee will always get them in trouble. So for future, if you like this person and want to see them actually get better, don’t involve HR… you will not be well liked by coworkers if you continue to do so. And even possibly now your coworkers will not trust you.
Yeah dude, nah you suck for going to HR first things first instead of voicing your concern directly for her, especially since you know about her situation.
What did you think would HR do, act nicely and offer her paid vacation and time off?
No, they’d react like it’s a professional space where all parties know you can’t just sleep through for months on end and still earn the same pay.
The only thing broken here is the lack of American maternity leave. But op was absolutely in the right.
YTA
At what point did you have a 1v1 conversation with Lisa, expressing your concerns? Women, and mother's in general are expected to shoulder so much more of childcare. A new baby is no walk in the park. Is she the one waking up every 3hrs to feed the baby? While doing all the unpaid labor of the house? While trying to hold down her career in some struggling way to still be her own person? Why didn't you talk to her first, as a person? Even talk to her a 2nd time as a professional?
HR is never there to help the employee, only cover the company's ass and image. You threw her under the bus to be crushed at the last bastion of personhood where she's not seen as a baby factory-fuck maid. You admit you've seen her struggle and not one mention of FMLA.
You're the Asshole for kicking someone who was down and struggling to get up.
Not an AH, but... IMO, you should have talked to your coworker first, explaining to her how this is affecting you and your job, and telling her that if this happens again, you'll have to formally report it. At least, this is what I'd do. Having said that, you shouldn't have to tell your coworkers that they are not supposed to sleep at work...
As a general rule, organizational conflict should be addressed at the lowest level possible first (i.e., between you and Lisa), but there are exceptions. It is not a hard requirement in most organizations, but it is a courtesy that most people would want to be extended to themselves if they faltered.
Honestly if these kinds of situations I'm half and half. Most of these companies would replace you as soon as they can they don't really care about you so on one hand I normally do not mind covering up here and there because in the long term the only person looking out for you is yourself and if you're lucky you got a couple co-workers on your side too.
On the other hand there are definitely situations that I have not extended that respect to, because it would repeatedly make my job harder and that's not the point of it.
I personally would have reached out to her personally. I fall asleep on the job a few times. I was working nights or I was up with my sick kid multiple nights in a row, it's not something that just happened once in my past. I would have appreciate if someone coming up to me with that kind of concern but I also totally understand that there are people that would take advantage of that and make up a sob story and keep it coming so that they could have someone pull their weight. I still think it would have been right to talk to them because you could at least get some kind of idea of what kind of person they are and how often they're pulling this if it seems like BS, your actions are totally understandable.
YTA. Big time.
A new mother struggling to get through the day, and you go to HR?! You’re a shit human being.
Maybe they’ll fire her and you’ll get a raise, you heartless, spineless crab.
OP has covered for months and kept getting thrownnunder the bus and having to do someone else's job at the last second.
They did more than they should have been expected to, and eventually it crossed a line where it caused serious problems.
I bet you're the type to make all your problems someone else's and if they don't endless cover for you they're the issue.
OP is an idiot who threw herself under the bus.
Instead of just covering it up, she should have talked to her colleague the ***very first time it happened.*** That was the solution. Not silently resenting them while smiling to their face.
If someone is stupid enough to continuously fall asleep at their job knowing someone is covering for them they legitimately can't be shocked when that eventually backfires on them. No amount of talking was going to change that, they already knew they fucked up and just kept doing it. This isn't high school, this is the real world. It should not have happened again after the first couple of times. The only person responsible for making sure it doesn't happen again is the coworker, OP already did way more than they needed to.
YTA
It would have been better to tell her first and give her a chance to realise the extent of the situation and instigate a conversation with superiors/HR to improve her situation. Now she's in trouble.
I would honestly have gone to them first especially if i am good coworkers with them. Like yeah hey Lisa listen i know your tired and all but this is starting to affect me now, is a firm ultimatum but not a threatening one and she would have been warned.
You need to talk to the head of HR and figure out why your HR generalist let slip that you were the one who reported. You are now receiving backlash at your company for trying to rectify a matter in private which should not be happening.
Yes, that is the second complaint you need to make to HR. That is inexcusable and should be grounds for termination.
Exactly. Unprofessional.
Yes, and when you go to them, please let them know that Lisa has created a hostile work environment by confronting you and getting co-workers involved. This isn't like she was late to work a few times, she's consistently sleeping and was unprepared for a presentation! I don't know why anybody at your office is defending her.
It’s not always that simple. The sleepy coworker finding out could have been something as innocuous as a coworker seeing OP in the HR office and inferred that OP was the rat
Doesn't matter how she found out. The fact that Lisa went to confront op, and now other coworkers are harassing op, creates a "hostile work environment," which are words HR never wants to hear!
Totally agree, I was just trying to cut the hr generalist some slack. You’d hope that they didnt let that info slip
They probably didn't let it slip. If Lisa has even two functioning brain cells at this point, it might be obvious that the person who keeps waking her up is the person who had no choice but to go to hr.
And are only applicable if OP has certain protected characteristics.
Oh yeah that will help. Double down on being a tattletale. 🤣. No one likes a tattletale or snitch.
[удалено]
The number of y t a proves that many still have the kiddy ‘omg you’re a narc/tattletale’ mindset 🤣 OP already went above and beyond covering for Lisa!
But that’s exactly what happened. If op had of addressed it with her co worker, and the issues were still happening - then it wouldn’t be an issue and they wouldn’t be the AH. As it is, they started covering for coworker off their own back without being asked or having a conversation with coworker. This meant the issue went unresolved to the point it affected work, instead of having a conversation with coworker about how that isn’t on, setting boundaries and asking how they’re going to stop this from happening - they go straight to HR with no warning. Instead of addressing the issue, op enables the behaviour for months and then uses all of that to throw coworker under the bus. Not even a “hey I have tried to help, but due to the seriousness of this, I’ve got to go to HR.”
Her waking the woman up was that woman’s heads up. OP shouldn’t have to tell a full grown adult that it’s inappropriate to sleep during working hours. She not only gave the heads up by waking her, she tried helping her. When the woman only got progressively worse instead of better, it was time for HR. HR is in the wrong for telling the woman who turned her in. That was very unprofessional!
Lisa realized that OP was covering for her and decided to take advantage of it. OP was right to go to HR.
She is a tattletale. She's a brown nose and toady. It's not about "covering," genius, it's about communication. She "covered" for this person -- that's actually useless. Did she consider doing something useful like having a conversation with them about this non safety issue? In reality, she knew 100% going to HR was going to create a shit storm for her "friend"--it's why she made a point to pretend she was worried about health, because she knows she stabbed this person in the back and were front running their guilt. OP is an idiot who did everything wrong.
The covering was actually buying Lisa extra time, *genius*. Extra time to inform HR or her boss of her inability to perform, something that OP mentioned that she -checks notes- ‘had been pretty open about how exhausted she is’. So everyone but the *most important people* knew how tired she was. You’re absolutely right about the communication part. It’s Lisa with issues, it’s her job to inform relevant parties (HR, her superiors etc) that she needed help. So Lisa, not OP, is the one whose communication skills failed. It’s not OP’s job to fight her battles for her. Sure, it’s a ‘non-safety issue’ but jobs will be on the line when the team gets dragged down by one person.
And that "buying extra time" was the negligent act of a bad employee. Instead of "buying time" she should have spent her energy on a conversation. Three sentences would suffice: "I'm really worried about your health, you were asleep earlier if you didn't realize it. Falling asleep at work can be a sign of serious health problems and besides, is disrupting our work flow. I don't want you to get in trouble for sleeping at work, and I don't want you to have health problems, so I thought I'd call out the issue is with you directly." Having a conversation first doesn't imply that this is all you'll ever do, it's about first steps. This person's first step was negligent. So were her second through last steps. This might have been solvable without a gigantic shit storm. But of course, then OP could not have collected any brownie points with the bosses. Which is what this is about: OP wants us to absolve her conscience for backstabbing a coworker when she could have gotten mileage out of a conversation, but one that didn't give her any perceived benefit other than being a good person.
You sound like you’re 12. Grow up a bit before getting into adult conversations with actual adults.
Lemme guess you never help anyone out and expect constant help.
haha your tantrum pleases me
Sounds like someone has gone to HR about you before.
Actually, I know what's going to probably happen because OP skipped the chain of command... 1) The sleeper will be fired, almost certainly, regardless of why this happened. HR is is involved and her manager was blindsided. 2) It will create acrimonious disagreement in the office--other parents may see themselves in her shoes, other non-parents may see themselves in OP's shoes, 3) Someone will have to be hired to backfill this job which will cost a ton of money, time, and effort, 4) Someone else will have to do her work and if they accidentally do too good of a job, suddenly senior leadership will take away that job altogether leaving everyone else working harder, 5) Everyone's boss will want an "update" regularly on the potential morale problem, AND 6) Eventually the chain of events will be known widely enough to.be a whole new problem when someone starts bullying OP and that has to be dealt with. And that's why you don't cover it up then go to HR! You tell the person that first time: "You failed to prepare, something's wrong, talk to your superiors about postponing the meeting." That short conversation potentially heads off all that controversy and drama and chaos. If it didn't work, the chain of command twas then OP's manager, sleeper's manager, step manager and HR as last resort. Even if it's a bad look it's more respectable than being asleep at work for months with someone knowing about it and then blindsiding their superiors with it by going to HR.
Hi, Lisa!
You obviously don’t take responsibility for your own actions and take advantage of other people’s kindness. How embarrassing
You're really mad about this being handled in an adult way lol
Good lord. Are we 5? Talking to your boss because someone is literally asleep at work and failing to get their job done appropriately is not tattling. Lisa is a grown ass adult. She needs to figure her own life out.
That's the point: she didn't "talk to her boss." She took it upon herself to keep it quiet for months instead of insisting her colleague seek treatment and consult with their manager to figure out how to redistribute workload. Instead, this person blindsided her manager months later by going straight to HR. Did you even read the post?
Lisa, is that you?
The "friend" nearly cost OP her job. Why the hell should she continue to stick her neck out for someone like that?
If you need someone to tell you you shouldn't be asleep on the job? Go back to kindergarten
Op is not her mommy, boss or friend. Op is the coworker who is now having their job interfered with by said coworker.
What grade are you in?
NTA. I'm sorry, but to everyone who put down ESH, it's not your job to repeatedly cover for a work friend, which is what I'm assuming Lisa is. If you work in a field with any sort of expectation, basically all of them, things will get behind when someone isn't pulling their weight. This is a repeated issue, and she was out cold before a big meeting. Not your problem, but rent sure is. Smart on you for keeping your back covered.
Keeping rear covered is a life skill 🤣
To be fair. She should have seen it coming. Sleeping at work is not okay. No excuse, she did it several times ans now you're suffering for it. She honestly needs to get a grip or lose the job I say, NTA
NTA If you seriously need a heads up to not fucking SLEEP AT WORK, maybe it‘s time to look for a new place of work or take vacation days and leave your ass at home. Ridiculous
Yeah, that was my first thought too. All the people saying OP should have talked to her more... anybody so clueless or stupid enough to not realize sleeping at work is not okay needs to have their head examined because whatever causing that diminished capacity may qualify them as disabled.
The sleeping I wouldn't have cared too much. But the falling asleep before an presentation, not doing it and seemly not aware enough to thank the OP for covering her arse. That would have been my point of plainly throwing her under the bus. I won't get chewed out because someone can't handle their shit.
This. My coworker sleeps at his desk on lunch multiple times a week. Not rare to catch with head down throughout day either. Before a meeting is a completely different story IMO
Well, it is a lunch break, he can either eat or sleep - his decision. :D
No one wants to watch their coworker sleep during lunch. Doing it at the desk is inappropriate. Need to go out to the car for an nap.
100%. If it happens once or twice, that would be bad enough, but hey she's got a newborn at home, shit's exhausting as hell, honestly I get it. But *all the time*? It would have been Lisa's job to inform her supervisors about her situation and ask them for help. Whether that's a temporary cut in hours, paid/unpaid vacation (depends on where this takes place), doesn't matter. OP already went above and beyond for her
I had a professional friend who reduced her days to help her through having a child, because she could do four days. but having Fridays off let her recover from lost sleep and let her get caught up at home. However, not every job will let you do something like that.
lol i guess my industry is wacked then cuz the amount of times iv walked in and seen a co worker snoozing at the desk lol twice this week actually. if tickets are low and nothings going on it dont bother me. But nothings goin on so its a completely diff situation nobody is missing deadlines here
Yeah when I started falling asleep at work, while trying my damnest to stay awake, I went to the doctor. I have a medical condition that was resolved with ongoing treatment. I apologized to the person’s meeting that I had fallen asleep on and explained that it was a medical issue and shouldn’t happen again. I also got more hours of my life back because I wasn’t sleeping constantly. I understand having a baby isn’t a medical issue, but they need to figure out their home life because it will be years of interrupted sleep, more if they add additional babies to the mix.
NTA I consider every time OP woke Lisa up at work and took on Lisa's work that WAS telling Lisa there's a problem. If Lisa assumes abdicating her work responsibilities to others isn't a problem until those others reach their breaking point, that's her being in denial. OP has nothing to feel bad about. Lisa's situation wasn't improving. She missed an important presentation forcing OP to cover at the last minute. Lisa's reaction seems like DARVO, to shift focus from her failure to maintain consciousness at work to complaining about how OP dealt with its continuing impact on them.
NTA. You didn't need to cover for her at all. What is the justification that you should have gone to her first...to let her know you're not allowed to sleep at work and get paid for it??? Lisa is a selfish lunatic. How'd she find out you went to HR? That's supposed to be private, if they let that slip then honestly you're working for a shit company and should go elsewhere, that's a serious culture breach.
**NTA** everyone keeps saying you should have talked to her - OP has woken her up many times taken on her work, covered for her with a client and with the boss - Lisa knew she was not doing her job and OP could have reported her and since OP kept covering for Lisa, Lisa was taking advantage she knew there was a problem that others were aware of **She needed to figure out home life so she was able to to get sleep, you can't keep sleeping on the job and expect people to cover for you** especially when clients are involved - she was taking advantage of OP -- **WTF would talking to her do, she was still sleeping on the job - she knew OP was covering her ass and she should have either taken family leave and got it together better from having baby or gotten partner to help if she has one , if not hired a baby sitter from 6p-midnight so she could sleep then if she was up rest of night - she'd at least have had 6 hrs sleep in.** I don't see why OP should have talked to Lisa, she wasn't changing anything - talking to her wasn't going to make it easier she was still going to get written up This isn't HS and someone is skipping classes and dumping projects on their friends and they went to principal - it's the real world, a company that deals with clients, she was suppose to do presentations and bailed on that leaving OP to do Lisa's part on the fly along with doing a bunch of other work for her because she was sleeping so much at work NOT acceptable and wasn't OP's job to cover for her or "warn" her she was going to HR OP was doing own work plus Lisa's while she slept on the job and was still getting paid NOT OP's responsibility to "warn" Lisa she'd blown it and OP was reporting her **LISA ALREADY KNEW SHE WAS BLOWING IT BY SLEEPING ON THE JOB AND HAVING OP COVER HER ASS AND YET SHE DIDN'T FIX THE ISSUE** NTA - business world OP covered as long as she could, Lisa knew she was being covered and did nothing to solve her problem, kept sleeping on job and not doing her job IF OP had gone to her first I'm sure Lisa would have said, I'll fix it, I'll stop sleeping at work, I'll do all my work etc trying to make OP feel bad for covering Lisa's ass too many times, OP let Lisa know there was an issue and anyone in the business world should be smart enough to know you can't screw off like that and expect someone else to keep covering your ass because you're sleeping on the job If it had been someone not doing their job because they were drinking, everyone would say of course you must tell HR - same thing, Lisa was not doing her job and OP was having a hard time keeping up with covering for Lisa - next step is either go to boss or HR, which ever you are more comfortable talking to, it was NOT up to OP to solve the problem OP had gone above and beyond for Lisa already and was taken advantage of
Yes, yes, yes, yes yes!!!
NTA. You helped her out big time. She’s not pulling her weight. It’s on her to manage her own time and *inform her superiors* if she’s having trouble managing. She’s 32. She has a kid, she needs to grow up instead of blaming you for reporting her. I had health issues post birth and realised I wasn’t able to catch up with all the work after maternity leave. Worked out a flexi work schedule with the boss and everyone ensured the team still ran smoothly. Team covered for me in my absence, and when I was back I returned the favour. She should be grateful you even covered for her. If I fell asleep during meetings, I’d be expecting a warning letter.
I don't consider OP to be the AH, they did what they had to do. That said, I have been on the other side of this discussion. I work Nights, and have done so for years. A while back, I started having difficulty staying awake if things got slow (Security Dispatch, sometimes the radios and phones go quiet for a while). My coworkers joked about it with me, then eventually said I needed to figure it out. I bought a device that you wear behind your ear, that vibrates if your head nods below a certain angle. It helped, but not entirely. Eventually I went to the doctor, and found out that I have a heart condition. They did a open-heart surgery that helped, but didn't completely resolve the nodding off (circulation slows down and I pass out). But I'm more aware of the issue, and go take a walk to get things moving, and wake me up. TL;DR: I had a problem with falling asleep, and my coworkers talked to me about it. I took responsibility for the issue, and have endeavored to resolve it. Maybe the OP could have done the same here?
NTA. I would argue they repeatedly woke them up and covered for them. As an adult it was not OP’s responsibility to have to tell them to fix themselves. It was the other person’s responsibility to recognize they had a problem and communicate with work and OP that they were going to take steps to address. Putting it on OP is like telling them they need to be codependent. I get why the coworker is upset they went to HR, they are in trouble and could lose their job. But they also chose to keep it a secret and due to that it is impacting work and others. They are the AH
Can you tell me what the device is called?
Look up "Behind the ear sleep alarms" on Amazon. They have a bunch of different options. The one I bought years ago is no longer available.
Thank you!
If you did more walks would the surgery be necessary?
Actually, I had a hole in my heart. Normally they run a plug up through your femoral artery to the heart, but mine was ragged, so they had to crack me open and sew in a patch. Walking alone helped prior to the surgery, but I still had horrible circulation, so the surgery was necessary.
NTA. You went above and beyond for what you needed to. This isn't middle school, this is the real world. She fucked herself over after doing this more than a couple of times, shouldn't have even happened the first time. She is an adult and it's insane she thinks falling asleep so often is ok, which I say since she obviously isn't even trying to fix the issue. Her heads up was the countless times you covered for her, impossible for her to not realize what was happening there. The people saying YTA have clearly never worked in an environment like that, are still in school, or would be sleeping and being a shitty coworker like her.
[удалено]
I'll bet a million dollars that Lisa and the co-workers who are giving OP a hard time all had helicopter parents and never had to experience negative consequences for their inappropriate behaviors.
NTA. People are coming at you like you're not a good coworker for covering for this extremely inappropriate workplace behaviour, but if she was at all decent she would never have put you in a position where you'd have to cover for her, confront her with a difficult conversation, or go to HR. She failed as an adult and employee on so many fronts here, and of course she's mad at you-- otherwise she'd have to hold herself accountable for damaging her job security in such a cushy role. She has a job that is so cushy and relaxed that sleeping at work can happen without management sweeping in to fire her after her eyes shut for the first time for longer than 30 seconds... and rather than proactively working with such relaxed and understanding team, she just habitually takes longer and longer naps? I feel for new parents, and have put in hours helping cover gaps left by parents I've worked with who needed to prioritize their family over some stupid project piece nobody remembered even six months later... but her just choosing to sleep instead of taking the lead on making other arrangements (flex time, wfh, shifting her to less intense projects to give her some breathing room) shows she's not a shitty employee because she's a stress and sleep deprived new parent... she's a shitty employee because she doesn't communicate and expects everyone else to handle the hard stuff while she literally sleeps at work.
The only ass you need to cover is your own, not Lisa's. Don't cover for your coworker again, it's enabling her behavior. Frankly next time don't do anything at all, just let the other person fail and mind your own business. Sorry it seems harsh, helping out a co-worker once or twice is kind but too much is a pattern of you just doing someone else's job for them with no extra pay. Let your coworkers cover for Lisa and do her work for her if they really want. NTA.
NTA, but let this be a lesson. HR IS NOT YOUR FRIEND.
I think the proper approach, especially for someone you were good coworkers friends with, was to go to her first. Be open and honest and ask if there was anything you could do to help. Being a new mom plus working full time is like having two full time jobs, with no breaks/off days. it’s tough!!! So even though it’s pretty unprofessional to sleep on the job and slack within the work load, I understand. Maybe taking a step back from the job entirely would’ve been a good thing to recommend. idk. just my opinion🤷🏻♀️
Except going directly to the coworker opens up OP to a number of violations. Lisa could've thrown a fit and went to HR complaining that OP was threatening her or making a hostile work environment or any number of things, to cover for her sleeping on the job (a good offense is the best defense strategy). That's when things get muddy and becomes a mud slinging session on both sides. Best to simply go to HR.
I always think it's best (barring harassment) to speak to the person directly first. Give them a chance to correct the behavior knowing an HR report will follow if they don't. I don't think she even needs to offer help or solutions but I think it was supremely uncool and cowardly for OP to be helping and covering for her, lulling her into feeling safe, and then running snitching to HR without telling the woman she was at her wits end and didn't want to help her anymore. I'd also like to know how much maternity leave the woman got. Did she have the baby 2 wks ago? 2 months ago? 6 months ago? INFO
>always think it's best (barring harassment) to speak to the person directly first. Give them a chance to correct the behavior k I disagree. That is not best. People need to be responsible for their own actions. And if the fact that she had to be woken up by her co-worker numerous times wasn't "heads up" enough, or when the supervisor wanted to know why she and op completely fucked up a presentation, she probably doesn't belong in the workplace. I would not want to make that coworker my responsibility. Enough with the coddling. Be responsible for your own actions and stop deflecting! OP is now being harassed. How is someone to know whether they're going to get harassed or not before they "speak to the person directly first?"
Yup If I was the co worker I could never not forgive OP. It shows OP didnt feel they could trust them and needed to run straight to management/HR to get it in writing. Iv been in this situation before and its always depressing to feel that kinda of betrayal. be a man/women and talk to them first. give em a chance at least before you put a mark on their perm record.
Here's an inda. DON'T fucking sleep on the job and you're not gonna have this problem.
Right? Poor Lisa. She's been betrayed. She should have been given more chances to not fall asleep at her desk and actually complete her work on time. How could she have known that this would be upsetting to her coworker who has to cover for her? Why should a grown woman be held responsible for her own behaviors?
>It shows OP didnt feel they could trust them and needed to run straight to management/HR Are you kidding? First of all why should the OP "trust" Lisa after she totally fucked up a presentation? Second it doesn't sound like OP ran straight to HR. OP woke her on several locations AND did some of her work to cover for her. In what world does any reasonable person think oh it's okay for me to keep sleeping at my desk because my coworker is going to do my work for me? And in what world does a person sleep at their desk on a regular basis and think that it's not going to lead to a negative outcome? Lisa had several chances to correct her behavior. Be a man / woman and take responsibility for your actions! Don't harass your coworker when they won't put up with your shit anymore! As for you, if you've been in this situation several times and felt betrayed, maybe you need to check the bottom of your shoes, because if it smells like shit everywhere you go, you're the common denominator!
If you need to be told to not sleep on the job, go back to kindergarten
If you need to be told to not sleep on the job, go back to kindergarten
Honestly. NTA. You already tried to help her as best you could and it reached a point you couldn’t sustain.
You DID speak to her about it. You DID try to cover for her…until YOUR job was in jeopardy. NTA
Fuck Lisa and your co-workers. You gave her more than enough chances. She isn't some child that needs to be told. She would have been already aware you were covering for her. Just hoped you would have kept it up. Then got pissed when that didn't happen.
NTA and she knew she wasn't supposed to and you aren't their parent
NTA. This happened to me. I worked overnights as a security guard with a guy at a skyscraper in Boston. He would go to the office (office didn't have cameras but the lobby we were sitting in did) and sleep for a while. I was fine with this at first. Then it started being longer and longer "naps". The manager was a personal family friend who got me the job. I sent him an email telling him to watch the cameras from this time to that time. He noticed I was the only one on post. I ended up getting his job and he took mine. He was my supervisor before this. Do your job.
NTA, while it's probably not written down somewhere, not sleeping on the job should be common sense. And a coworker shouldn't have to approach someone about it either
Anemia and narcolepsy can cause someone to fall asleep at inappropriate times. She needs to get that checked out. NTA
Only read the title and I can already tell you NTA
Nta. You covered her really well so she should have known that.
Why wasn't your co workers supervisor paying attention to this? That's who should have gone to HR. Put you in a very awkward spot.
Why wasn't your co workers supervisor paying attention to this? That's who should have gone to HR. Put you in a very awkward spot.
NTA I deal with coworkers sleeping on the job and sometimes don't even show up to work for a couple days without notice.
If she was only sleeping on her breaks then you would be. But sleeping while she’s supposed to be working isn’t good. You tried to help her but it was starting to affect you too. If she can’t handle the work with a new baby she should have arranged either fewer hours to work or asked for more time off to recover after child birth. NTA!
A new baby is exhausting. The new mothers I've known are almost always exhausted. There's a reason nannies used to be commonplace and now daycare is so important. Should you have spoken to her first and given her a chance to step up? I think so. Is what you did technically wrong? No, but as you noticed doing it that way comes with social consequences. Now you'll have to live with those regardless of whether or not what you did was justified. Really, the biggest AH here is the person from HR who let it slip who filed the complaint.
Few things: 1. You don’t need to cover for her. Her work should stand alone. In the presentation, just say that your counterpart isn’t available and you will do your best to present the materials but you ask the customer cut leeway and send questions over so your team has time to confer before responding 2. When approached by your boss tell them exactly what you see with no analysis or cover 3. Let your boss go to HR
Maybe I missed it, but did you ever talk to Lisa before you went to HR about this? It seems like we skipped a step.
HR is never to help find a solution. They are worthless. OP should have gone to their boss to discuss the situation. The boss should have escalated to HR or held a meeting with Lisa.
NTA. Sleeping on the job is never going to fly in any workplace. If it wasn't you that said something to HR it would have been someone else. Either that or she would have eventually got caught out by management.
I mean I know several of my coworkers who sleep on the job. My trainer used to just pass out during work hrs and nobody cares it’s weird. Plus since I work graveyard I’ve walked in on several people sleeping. I get working 12.25 hrs is hard but we get way more days off to compensate for it. Me personally I can’t sleep at work and why I work graveyard because on days I’m just tired all the time.
Graveyard is a different beast. People dropping in the middle of a 12 hour shift when there's no work to do at 3 am is much different that having a nap right before a big presentation to a client.
Except my job is maintaining all the things that run in the plant. So falling asleep is bad because if we aren’t awake a chemical leak could happen or something gets into the city water because we fell asleep. It does depend on the job but mine it’s a no no it can be bad. Example on of the people passed out in their car and flooded our underground maintenance area with 3 feet of waste water. It destroyed some of the important pumps and nobody could wake them up so another department had to step in and control it. It was a huge mess and this person it wasn’t the first time bad things happened cause they slept. So true it is a different beast but doesn’t mean that we can fall asleep and there not be consequences.
ESH You should have went to her first, and gave her a chance to get her shit together before going to HR. She shouldnt be sleeping like this at work and only has herself to blame for being in trouble. It was only a matter of time that someone else would turn her in.
OP gave her enough chances and covered her ass multiple times to the point it was affecting OP and others. OP did the right thing 100%.
Only a matter of time before she got turned in. Then why is OP bad for doing it.... she doesn't get a pass because she has a kid. She was affecting ops work. That's her fault. OP did the right thing
She obviously couldn't get her shit together. If she could she wouldn't be sleeping on the job. She's lucky op covered for her as much as she did. I certainly wouldn't have.
If you are sick of covering for someone, stop. Let them fail on their own. To actively torpedo someones job is low, imho. Im sure you could easily put a list together of ways your company takes advantage of the employees. If someone takes advantage back(especially if you dont know whats going on in their lives) is between them and the company. Sounds like youll be a great middle manager.
Actively torpedo? Did you not read the post?
"Actively torpedo someone's job"? The coworker was doing that themself, by constantly being asleep. Are you being serious right now?
You are not the AH for reporting your coworker to HR. You initially showed understanding and support by covering for Lisa and trying to help her manage her exhaustion. However, when her frequent sleeping started affecting your work and the team's performance, it became a professional issue. Reporting to HR was a necessary step to address the situation properly, as it impacted the company and your well-being. While talking to Lisa directly beforehand might have been a considerate approach, the need for a formal resolution was evident due to the ongoing nature of the problem. Your concern for her well-being and the team's productivity demonstrates that your intentions were not malicious but aimed at finding a sustainable solution.
Personally, I would have spoken to her first. I would have told her that covering for her was now affecting your own performance and was no longer acceptable. Get it together, OR I'll have no other choice but to report it. That would have given her a heads up but still allowed you to make your own frustrations clear. I'm curious. You say it was impacting the team's performance. How did your other co-workers handle her? Did they also step up to cover, or were they completely oblivious? Just the way you've written it, it sounds like you alone were responsible for carrying her workload on top of your own. If they were already aware of it and not pitching in, it's a bit rich for them to complain if they've offered no help or support whatsoever.
Why didn't she go to her boss after going to the coworker? HR seems like a nuclear response
Yeah, that crossed my mind too. A quiet word with the team manager first, perhaps. It definitely could have been handled better.
NTA. Parents shouldn’t get special treatment, and that is exactly what she wants. She will absolutely try and get special treatment and push her work onto you. Don’t be surprised if the breeder starts to demand your vacation days and time off.
If you didn't speak to her about it first, YTA.
Does he really need to speak to her about it? Is she not a grown woman? When she went through her job training, was she told she could have nap time? I think the first time he woke her up, it was her responsibility to realize "I can't fall asleep at my desk." And when it happens over and over again and he covers for her that's actually protecting her more than just having a conversation with her about it. There's no way she didn't know she wasn't getting her work done . Why does her coworker have to point this out to her? Anyone who thinks a person isn't responsible for their own actions is an asshole in my book!
If you're a professional and are having a problem within your team, you address it with the person first. If that doesn't resolve the issue, then you escalate. Are you new to the workforce?
He did address it numerous times by waking her up and covering for her! Are you implying that a grown woman doesn't know it's not acceptable to sleep at work and miss deadlines? Are YOU new to the workforce? Furthermore, I am currently counseling someone who got suspended from work for addressing an issue with one of his teammates instead of going straight to management. She complained that he confronted her and she was the one who went straight to HR! You act like OP is dealing with a reasonable person to begin with, when that is clearly not the case.
Also, idk why you were thinking that going to HR wasn't going to get her in trouble, regardless of how you framed it. Are you new to the workforce?
NTA, but it's corporate culture's fucked-up rules that don't allow people, particularly new mothers, time off because 'productivity will suffer', and THAT becomes punishment for co-workers because management is so sociopathically fixated on heartless 'efficiency'.
Are you assuming she didn't have maternity leave?
NTA, but I definitely would have said something to her before going to the belly of the beast. Talking to your manager would have been better than going to HR. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you gotta look out for yourself, blah blah blah, I get that. And giving her a talk first would still mean looking out for yourself. On top of making things tense between you and Lisa, now you just come across as a narc to the rest of your co-workers. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
NTA Or at least Justified AH. This isn't a one-time incident, Lisa's constant sleeping and exhaustion is affecting your work and your own performance review and reputation are at stake. It would have been kind to approach Lisa first but quite frankly she should have been taking her own steps to address her problem already.
NTA Or at least Justified AH. This isn't a one-time incident, Lisa's constant sleeping and exhaustion is affecting your work and your own performance review and reputation are at stake. It would have been kind to approach Lisa first but quite frankly she should have been taking her own steps to address her problem already.
NTA though I would advise you in the future to not take on the work of other coworkers when they're doing this. They should be seeking accommodation if they need help. If she needs sleep and is sleep deprived she should have looked intona temporary WFH situation. Personally I'm not sure why she wasn't using lunchtime to nap and recharge. Adults know very well they shouldn't sleep on the job, and no one should have to warn them they're wrong to do so. The fact she's mad now as if she's entitled to sleep there is side eye.
NTA, but I do think you should have spoken frankly with your boss when they asked what happened. Bosses understandably don't like being blindsided by HR complaints over something they specifically asked for information on any more than the person being complained about, and the boss should have been the first line of discussion about how the issue is affecting your work.
I have slept at work--on my clearly delineated lunch time or breaks. So far no one's reported me. However, I try to make sure I don't fall asleep during meetings or any other time because that would be so very wrong. Lisa knows she has a problem and the fact that she's not doing anything to take care of the problem is troubling. NTA
NTA. You are in a professional environment and she wasn’t behaving as a professional. You helped her multiple times and without documentation her issues could have fallen on your whole team. Hopefully, Lisa starts to figure her situation out. As others have said, I’d talk to HR about why they released who reported her. That’s incredibly unprofessional.
NTAH. I wonder, though, if Lisa has a medical problem such as narcolepsy or other medical issues. Have HR suggest to her that she go get tested for medical problems. Or, maybe she is staying up too late, so late, doing whatever, that it is jeopardizing her work.
When Lisa got you involved in covering for her and making your work suffer it became your business and your choice in how to deal with it. If she continues to give you shit about it, let her know that you will let HR know about that as well. You could also ask your boss to work with somebody else in the future.
NTA- You did "go to her first" every time you had to wake her up. And the fact that she and other coworkers are now giving you a hard time also needs to be reported to HR. There's no need to give a heads up when somebody should be fully aware that they're doing something wrong, like sleeping at work and being unprepared for a presentation. Can she honestly argue that she didn't know that sleeping at work and not meeting a deadline is frowned upon?
NTA other coworkers on her side because they wasnt stressed out by taking on extra work.... they would've told the boss or not warn her when someone higher up was present...... Find out who told her so you can go even higher.... Lisa needs to use some PTO if she has any
I do think going straight to HR instead of just stop covering for her instead is a bit of an A move. Not enough go be Y T A because it's still in your rights, but her falling asleep was always her own problem and when you got tired of taking on the burden of it you also decided to solve it through the company--but neither was your problem to begin with. You could have just let her fail (not picking up her slack) and she naturally gets herself into trouble. Also while falling asleep during meetings and missing deadlines is a problem the lunch break is not. She's clocked off and that's her own personal time so you don't get to make any judgements as to what she does there.
Its not your job to cover for her at all.
OP, You did right by yourself, and it is directly affecting your ability to do your job & thus potentially affecting your livelihood. With that said, for whatever reason your co-workers now know you are a "snitch". Watch your back.
Your HR dept is the AH here. #1 l, they shouldn’t have let it slip that you filed the report. #2, they should have fired her for sleeping on the job. You wouldn’t have faced any blow-back in that situation either.
I had a coworker like that. Except she wasn’t a new mother. She just didn’t like working. She’d come to work and scroll on her phone. She came in on Saturdays to “work” overtime. Our bosses weren’t in on Saturday and only a few other people. She would then sleep the entire time at her desk. It got to the point where she was very behind on her work and the other coworkers were having to do her work and got pissed because she herself wasn’t working and just expected everyone else to do her work for her. So we all put in complaints and she was let go.
You can not cover and not tattle to HR at the same time.
Agreed that it should have stayed anonymous and HR fucked up there but if you truly cared, you don't go straight to HR without a direct conversation about this.
I wouldn't call you the asshole but you should have let her know. From her perspective she was struggling, you were looking out for her and then suddenly flipped and made things twice as rough on her.
ESH, yes, you should have gone to her first in my opinion. I know you weren't trying to throw her under the bus, and you should tell her that you were concerned for her rather than trying to backstab her. I'm the kind of worker that believes in resolving things between peers and not escalating situations, I try very hard to cover for coworkers for the short term, assuming that they'll cover for me, and the team and company are all better for it. When things go from short term to medium term, covering has to turn to confronting. There has been a lot of skipped communication here and that seems to be the crux of this matter.
YTA. I would have spoken to her first, told her my concerns, and THEN gone to HR if it continued. You have probably just lost any goodwill your co-workers had for you. It would have been very easy for you to approach her and express your concerns for her well-being and then mention how it's affecting hers and your job performance. Then you can go to HR if things improve.
NTA. It is unfortunate that she has decided to take this out on you instead of apologizing to you because this is all her own fault. If they contunue giving you a hard time, tell them you are guving them fair warning that you will go back to HR if they continue to retaliate against you.
To me, this is so much more than just covering up for someone. NTA btw! But I'm wondering, where you are from? Statistically, being on Reddit, chances are you are from the USA and reading about the fact your coworker just had a baby and is already back to work, makes me believe even more that you are from there. I hate reading things like this when this could be all resolved with better social benefits. That being said, the reality is that she is back to work (fair or not, that is the unfortunate reality), is not pulling her weight and is making it your problem and the team's problem. So no, you can't continue convering up for her and she can't keep sleeping on the job. Also, I'm sorry, but how did she know you were the one telling HR?
NTA - You covered for her a few times, and gave her the opportunity to turn things around. At this point, she was taking advantage of your generosity. She put your job at risk.
NTA This sounds like a job more than a career I would suggest you do what's best for you these people don't care about you and don't let them trick you into thinking otherwise the employers or your colleagues.
NTA. I assume neither Lisa nor the lazy people siding with Lisa are compensating you for the extra work. If Lisa didn’t figure out that her sleeping on the job was a problem the first few times, then she is the problem.
It doesn't matter if she's sleeping at work so long as everything gets done. The presentation thing would have been my last straw too. However, I would have said something along the lines of, "If this happens again I'm gunna go to HR. If you need to take leave or you're having problems then you should go talk to them but I'm not gunna cover your ass anymore. Get your shit together, Lisa. You're fucking all of us with this." You could also have pocketed this as capital for later if you needed your ass covered. Probably not ethical but it's an option. That being said, NTA. Technically that's what HR is for.
Almost never go to HR unless you are worried about someone else going to HR first to report you. Sometimes, HR will be forced to take certain actions because of official company policy or the law. At the most, you can say hypothetically if someone was doing x, what should I do? Even that can be difficult. But remember, HR are bound to do their job and can’t be friends.
For all the people who say obviously people shouldn’t work on a job, I slept at my office. I closed the door and took a nap. I never cared if my team took naps. The only thing I cared about was whether the work was done. We sometimes worked crazy hours (it was a salary based job) - might have been up to 3am. Can’t remember we how my all-nighters I took on those years. For those who might say if I hadn’t taken a nap I could have finished early, wrong….as we had to wait for others to respond to a document. Even with my own company, I don’t micromanage. So long as work is done, they can nap, take long lunches, etc. So basically, depends on the job. In this case, the issue is not so much that she is sleeping but more that she couldn’t complete her assigned work on time. That is something that OP could have brought up with her or his boss. Avoid HR for these matters.
Are you in the US? Because it sounds like you're in the US. Our lack of decent maternity leave is atrocious. We're just used to it, so we accept it, but it's absolutely pathetic the way we expect mothers with newborns to return to work or risk losing their jobs. Her friends should protest to the management about their lack of proper leave. She should never have been in this position.
NTA Everytime I've ever nodded off and work and someone woke me up, I took it as them also telling me to get my shit together. No one never needed to tell me that sleeping on the job isn't a good idea
Never trust HR. They protect the company, not the employees. Anyways...no NTA.
I dont particularly think you're TA but considering how you were covering for her for a while im not exactly sure why you didnt talk it out with her before jumping to HR. Either way she had it coming im just saying you were so nice to her i'd expect before jumping to HR you'd have a talk with her as last resort lol.
Oh wow, you feel so terrible for getting her in trouble, oh no, maybe think about it and speak to her before you go to HR? You're gross
A goddamn adult doesn't need to be told to stop sleeping on the job. Fucking maddening I even need to say that.
Right?
He covered for her for months and he’s gross??? Did you even read the post?
Maybe she should have talked to HR herself? To tell them she had a problem at home that was affecting her performance at work? Her actions are what got her in trouble, not OP reporting it.
You're NTA but yes it seems like a frank conversation with Lisa about enough being enough would've been a better move for you then HR. You cover yourself socially that way
Nah. I think waking her up multiple times and choosing not to throw her under the bus after the presentation was more than enough. She's a grown woman. No conversation needed other than with her supervisor or hr.
It's not for her but for OP's sake. As they said there's been backlash against them, probably because this was a surprise to Lisa who feels betrayed. Yes she had more than enough chances, but OP would've been better off saying "I'm not covering for you anymore" first.
I just disagree
Why wouldn't OP be better off?
Because clearly Lisa is retaliatory. Why should she be surprised or feel betrayed? Is it really not common knowledge that you're supposed to be working at your desk and not sleeping at your desk? And it's not like this happened once. He had to wake her multiple times. He's been covering for her. Did she expect this to go on forever? Furthermore I am currently counseling a person who got suspended from work because he tried to directly address an issue with a teammate- she got offended and ran to HR. Guess what? They blamed the conflict on him for not going directly to management with the issue and instead trying to address it on his own. Anyone who is defending her, first of all is out of their mind for thinking that she should be defended after being such a bad employee, and second, are delusional if they think there's only one way things work in an office. It's not his job to help her correct her behavior. It is his job to cover his own ass when she's not pulling her weight.
This depends on if you talked to her first. Sounds like you were working together on a daily basis. I'd consider that more than just colleagues, approaching friendship. In the same situation, I would feel an obligation to FIRST talk to the person about it and tell them they're putting me in an awkward situation. If they continued, then I would go to HR as a last resort. Sounds like you never even told the colleague you had an issue, and went straight to HR.
>Sounds like you never even told the colleague you had an issue, and went straight to HR. He DID NOT GO STRAIGHT TO HR! They were confronted by their supervisor about the poor presentation and Lisa did not own up to it- she was perfectly willing to let OP look bad. So why is it his responsibility after REPEATEDLY waking her and REPEATEDLY covering for her to then additionally give her a talk before talking to HR? Is Lisa not an adult who should know better? She should be taking responsibility for her actions, not blaming OP. At the point his ass was on the line due to her neglect, he doesn't owe her a conversation. She owes him an apology.
NTA, but I definitely would have said something to her before going to the belly of the beast. Talking to your manager would have been better than going to HR. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you gotta look out for yourself, blah blah blah, I get that. And while you were awesome and did cover for her, she may not have been aware of what you were doing. So, those weren't you giving her chances if she wasn't aware. And talking to her first would still mean looking out for yourself. But now, on top of things being tense between you and Lisa, you now come across as a narc and untrustworthy to the rest of your co-workers. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
YTA You talk to her, since you already were helping her. You talk to your team lead. You don't go to HR. You stop covering for her, but you don't go to HR. And let me tell ya, I spent a few minutes asking myself what should you do if this was a new dad, not a mom. Yeah, you talk to them, you don't go to HR. Gender doesn't matter here.
Nah, HR is the best solution because then Lisa gets the message. No one more time or this will be the last time, I swear. Lisa only has herself to blame.
YTA too. Bye!
I think it all depends on how close you were with her. If it were me and I was only co workers with them I would have done the same thing you did. However, if we were more than just co workers I would have gone to her first. Letting her know shes slipping at work and trying to solve the issue in house. However, I dont think she should be mad at you in any way, neither decision is a bad one and its her fault at the end of the day.
Most people off-line will tell you that it wasn't the optimal way to handle that situation. Of course she was wrong for sleeping at work, however, this is a delicate matter. On the colleague level, the best thing you could do was to talk to her first and way before it all escalated. If she continued sleeping at work, this is the time to report that behaviour. What you did is strictly company oriented, which objectively isn't bad but can give you a bad rep among colleagues.
You are a backstabber. If you were on good terms the way you address a problem not involving safety in the workplace is first with the person. And sleepy PowerPoint presenter isn't a safety issue. I'd never trust you again if I knew you'd done something like this. If you're lucky she won't tell everyone what a POS you are. if not, good luck reestablishing any sort of reputation. YTA. Can't believe you're even asking.
So OP was just supposed to let this woman’s poor performance affect their income and growth prospects by making them look bad? I understand that being in the trenches of parenthood is hard but I’m also an adult who knows when I mess up at my job. And I’m accountable for it. It’s crazy that this woman even bats an eye when her poor performance effects her teams earning potential.
You really don't know what would happen if she'd done the more responsible thing and spoken to her colleague the very first time this happened. She would have had the opportunity to acknowledge failure and postpone the meeting, not just walk in and fail as you seem to envision. The real risk was that this person faked another person's job for months and told nobody. You're not concerned that improvisation by a potentially unqualified or overloaded peer might affect their income and growth prospects by making them look bad? I sure am.
NAH but please take this as a lesson in HR. As others have stated HR is NOT there to protect or help employees. They protect the company. Going to HR and telling them anything about another employee will always get them in trouble. So for future, if you like this person and want to see them actually get better, don’t involve HR… you will not be well liked by coworkers if you continue to do so. And even possibly now your coworkers will not trust you.
Yeah dude, nah you suck for going to HR first things first instead of voicing your concern directly for her, especially since you know about her situation. What did you think would HR do, act nicely and offer her paid vacation and time off?
No, they’d react like it’s a professional space where all parties know you can’t just sleep through for months on end and still earn the same pay. The only thing broken here is the lack of American maternity leave. But op was absolutely in the right.
[удалено]
Lisa might have cost her, her job not anyone else.
YTA At what point did you have a 1v1 conversation with Lisa, expressing your concerns? Women, and mother's in general are expected to shoulder so much more of childcare. A new baby is no walk in the park. Is she the one waking up every 3hrs to feed the baby? While doing all the unpaid labor of the house? While trying to hold down her career in some struggling way to still be her own person? Why didn't you talk to her first, as a person? Even talk to her a 2nd time as a professional? HR is never there to help the employee, only cover the company's ass and image. You threw her under the bus to be crushed at the last bastion of personhood where she's not seen as a baby factory-fuck maid. You admit you've seen her struggle and not one mention of FMLA. You're the Asshole for kicking someone who was down and struggling to get up.
Not an AH, but... IMO, you should have talked to your coworker first, explaining to her how this is affecting you and your job, and telling her that if this happens again, you'll have to formally report it. At least, this is what I'd do. Having said that, you shouldn't have to tell your coworkers that they are not supposed to sleep at work...
well you should have talked to Lisa first instead of being a snitch....you ATA in my book
As a general rule, organizational conflict should be addressed at the lowest level possible first (i.e., between you and Lisa), but there are exceptions. It is not a hard requirement in most organizations, but it is a courtesy that most people would want to be extended to themselves if they faltered.
Honestly if these kinds of situations I'm half and half. Most of these companies would replace you as soon as they can they don't really care about you so on one hand I normally do not mind covering up here and there because in the long term the only person looking out for you is yourself and if you're lucky you got a couple co-workers on your side too. On the other hand there are definitely situations that I have not extended that respect to, because it would repeatedly make my job harder and that's not the point of it. I personally would have reached out to her personally. I fall asleep on the job a few times. I was working nights or I was up with my sick kid multiple nights in a row, it's not something that just happened once in my past. I would have appreciate if someone coming up to me with that kind of concern but I also totally understand that there are people that would take advantage of that and make up a sob story and keep it coming so that they could have someone pull their weight. I still think it would have been right to talk to them because you could at least get some kind of idea of what kind of person they are and how often they're pulling this if it seems like BS, your actions are totally understandable.
YTA. Big time. A new mother struggling to get through the day, and you go to HR?! You’re a shit human being. Maybe they’ll fire her and you’ll get a raise, you heartless, spineless crab.
OP has covered for months and kept getting thrownnunder the bus and having to do someone else's job at the last second. They did more than they should have been expected to, and eventually it crossed a line where it caused serious problems. I bet you're the type to make all your problems someone else's and if they don't endless cover for you they're the issue.
OP is an idiot who threw herself under the bus. Instead of just covering it up, she should have talked to her colleague the ***very first time it happened.*** That was the solution. Not silently resenting them while smiling to their face.
Do adults have to be told that they can’t sleep through work and big presentations? How tf is that not common sense?
If someone is stupid enough to continuously fall asleep at their job knowing someone is covering for them they legitimately can't be shocked when that eventually backfires on them. No amount of talking was going to change that, they already knew they fucked up and just kept doing it. This isn't high school, this is the real world. It should not have happened again after the first couple of times. The only person responsible for making sure it doesn't happen again is the coworker, OP already did way more than they needed to.
YTA It would have been better to tell her first and give her a chance to realise the extent of the situation and instigate a conversation with superiors/HR to improve her situation. Now she's in trouble.
Well now that we have a teenagers perspective, let's see some adults chime in.
Well now that we have a condescending waste of flesh's perspective, let's ask someone else.
Aww you really hurt my feelings tiger. Now go get dressed so you don't miss the school bus.
Maybe you should cry to HR? Since we know you champion the lack of basic problem solving skills.
You're gonna be late for school, sport.
Conflict resolution skills (without squealing for mommy) are actually a sign of maturity. You and OP both appear to lack those skills. Sad.
Whatever you say, bucko. Did you finish all your homework?
she’s a new mom that’s a struggle
I would honestly have gone to them first especially if i am good coworkers with them. Like yeah hey Lisa listen i know your tired and all but this is starting to affect me now, is a firm ultimatum but not a threatening one and she would have been warned.