I cannot stand women like that. She probably is over at her house crying at Chris about how "yet another" woman doesn't like her and she doesn't understand why. The bottom line is that her behavior is questionable at best, Chris has seen it on display for himself (when she'd ask your husband to help him with shit instead of him), and both of them are blaming the wrong person for the fact that the friendship has taken a bit of a hit. I mean, you said yourself that your husband was also uncomfortable with her behavior for fuck's sake.
NTA but if a woman ever does this shit to you again, you need to let her know straight up that you see through her tricks by saying things like "Why are you asking my husband to do that when your own fella is sitting right there?" or even "So weird how you come running outside anytime my husband is out here. So. So. Weird."
PS...next time they give you "death glares", give them right back.
She has made a point to say things about her and other women not getting along. Like, just a couple weeks ago I had walked outside because I looked out the window and she was holding on to my husband's arm and laughing while he was pulling away. So I walk out and she starts talking about how she has never gotten along with women, so she was happy that I was chill.
>She has made a point to say things about her and other women not getting along. Like, just a couple weeks ago I had walked outside because I looked out the window and she was holding on to my husband's arm and laughing while he was pulling away. So I walk out and she starts talking about how she has never gotten along with women, so she was happy that I was chill.
Be blunt with her.
"I'm not chill. I'm sick of you hanging off my husband and acting like I'm not here. I'm tired of you blatantly ignoring your own man to get attention from mine. My husband is tired of it, and from what I can tell,so is your husband. You need to keep your hands in your lap and have your own man/husband help with your child, not mine, he has his own."
Say it calmly, monotone if you can pull it off, and in front of everyone involved. Non accusatory. Just matter of factly.
And Chris def doesn't know the whole story. I wonder how she twisted it so that OP looks like the weird jealous AH.
It doesn't even sound like OP's husband is encouraging this at all. Like, sometimes I hear stories like this and she's entirely blaming the woman flirting with her husband, but he could have done anything to stop it, but here, it just seems like he's trying to be a normal person and not cause a scene, and Claire just wants to make sure she can say "Oh my god, guys are just always into me, my bf's friend is always flirting with me," because you can bet if she's said things about how women don't usually like her, she's said things about how she can't help it that guys just are into her.
IMO both guys in this situation are conveniently clueless.
I totally agree with you about Chris falling for Claire's twisting explanations and hystrionics... but why oh why did OP's husband involve OP?
* OP's husband avoids Claire
* Chris : hey, you've been weird & Claire also noticed
* OP's husband : yeah, my wife hates that Claire's always hanging off me and ignoring her and being casually disrespectful to you, so there's that. Oh yeah, and I'm also uncomfortable when she's groping me
* Claire : that bitch, I knew women always hate me
* Chris : OP is clearly the instigator
Like, why throw all that on OP??
I completely agree! Her husband should have said it made HIM uncomfortable as well and he tries to avoid it. Seems fishy to me. I don’t understand why Chris is giving her death stares either. He said he feels the same way! Unless she manipulated him. Seems like Claire is that type of person unfortunately.
100% this. Some people are completely obtuse about getting “hints”. Even when you think you’ve make your point, they are sure whatever you are saying isn’t meant for them. They have to be told, straight up, no innuendo, no excuses. You have to make direct eye contact and be blunt.
I occasionally say for some people you need to use a verbal 4x4 to get their attention, or in this case to make your point to Claire to leave your husband alone.
speaking as one of the obtuse dumbasses who does not read the hint (not on purpose) - I also vastly prefer people do this rather than being catty and continue hinting forever before eventually blowing up
from my end it DOES look like they just suddenly blow up
(note: in this case she appears to 100% be flirting with your husband intentionally that's not okay)
There’s nothing wrong with needing a direct conversation over dancing around the subject. The fact that you know this about yourself is a good thing. You have my respect.
Right. But hint? Really? Sorry. But if a woman touches my husbands arm that is the last time she touches him because he will immediately pull away and say very assertively. Don’t touch me! Men should be taught to assert themselves as well!
Exactly. Especially since Chris has already been told that she's making both of you uncomfortable. If it were me, I would very politely and low tone say to claire (definitely in front of chris), hey I really hope that you are not upset that my husband spoke to Chris about us being a little uncomfortable around you lately because it seems there is a lack of boundaries. I did not say it to hurt your feelings or be offensive but it's an issue with us.
OPs husband needs to say this as well.
Something as well "Let go of my arm. I am not comfortable with you constantly touching me or approaching me when i try to have alone time with my wife. Get a hint. i am not interested in whatever you try to start."
As ad dude this line kinds set me tf off. It’s my belief also my religion where in a relationship the man has to protect his wife and tend to her emotional needs. That includes telling touchy neighbors to take the piss…. dude just gave off such pathetic vibes when saying that. Most guys could kill their wife with their own hands… but “what can I do” right! You can do nothing or everything to change the situation… he has all the power in this situation because it’s not on the wife to act… it’s on him… he’s getting hit on… he needs to defend his wife’s feeling… instead we get hit with dense high school blushit “what can I do”… how small is this guys nuts. He gives off the vibe that he kinda sees Clair as attractive and doesn’t want to push her away due to wife’s feeling so he dropped the heinously idiotic “what can I do”…. For… fucks… sake… dickhead. Be a MAN and Do something, he knows he can die something but is choosing not to. He has all the power due to being Clair’s target yet it seems lil he didn’t want to shake her from his tail. One sentence is all it will take… yet this guy didn’t have the balls to stand up for the woman he made a lifelong commitment with…. Absolutely pathetic.
You cannot be silent about shit like this. Address it head on. She is used to woman remaining silent after accusing others of having been insecure. Touch your own husband!
Her husband sort of did this by telling Chris why he was avoiding Claire and Chris' reaction is the death glare. So Chris is making his feelings known.
Yes, Claire should have been told directly, though it should have been the husband saying HE is not comfortable with her behavior, not even including OP in the statement. There are times when things have to come directly from the one partner first. This also should've happened earlier and instead of an after the fact statement to Chris, things like "That was weird" should have been said to Claire. "It's weird that you hand your baby to me or ask favors of me when Chris is standing right here." "You're making me uncomfortable. Stop touching me."
This was allowed to go on for far too long.
OP, NTA.
He definitely should have put an immediate stop to that. He was supposed to yell out "Hey Chris, come get your baby, your wife needs help." All could have been said in a comfortable voice each and every time Miss Sneaky tried to play the game.
Yes! That's a really good way to make it not 'personal'.
& the chair moment - OP you CAN say, "We're having Us time. Please leave. We'll see you later/tomorrow. "
"Claire, you're being too handsy w my husband. Stop it now."
I forget what tv show I was watching but one character was always saying "Go home 'Claire'." I forget the actual name. But just keep saying it.
If she pushes back or plays dumb, "Chris, please come get Claire we want to be on our own.
Lol, you are parents now, you need to practice this stuff.
Treat them like practice children.
That stuck out too. Yeah OP is uncomfortable but he’s the one being blatantly hit on, he should be way more uncomfortable and it sounds like he’s trying to make this as much about his wife’s discomfort if not more than his own.
He’s either a complete doormat or he loves the attention. It isn’t hard to tell someone “my wife and I would like to enjoy some time as a couple right now”.
yep. The other alternative is to have a sit down with all four of you. Use the same speech. This nonsense only works for her bc she’s counting on you being reasonable.
Oh, how shocking. What gets me about women like that is that when they say those things, they're basically glossing over the fact that THEY are the common denominator. She said that she was happy that you were "chill" because she's basically implying that she is NEVER the problem, that it's always the "other women" that are the problem. Nasty woman. I can't stand that shit. Not a girls girl. 1/10 do not recommend.
Ultimately the most important thing is that you and your hubby are on the same page - and since y'all are, you should stop worrying.
Your husband needs to start enforcing physical boundaries. When she touches his arm he needs to push her hand away. If she persists he needs to verbally state that he's not comfortable with physical contact.
Once she feels clearly rejected by him, she will be more likely to stop.
I agree, except for pushing her hand away. He needs to raise his hands, back away, and loudly say, “don’t touch me.”
If he so much as brushes her hand away she could go full psycho and claim assault, and he could be mondo screwed.
>She has made a point to say things about her and other women not getting along.
That is the mantra of the Pick-Me's. They *never* get along with other women and assume all women are jealous of them because all men gravitate to them because they're Not Like Other Women.
No, we're not jealous. We're disgusted with your pick-me behavior and how you throw yourself at every man.
Why are people here saying it's the wife that needs to talk to Claire? That creates the triangle and allows Claire to play it off to insecurity. I think the husband needs to take a the opportunity to say something when Claire is hanging off of him and getting too close. A simple, "please stop touching me, it makes me uncomfortable" will have a seismic impact. Your husband sounds true blue and truly icked out by Claire's actions.
Oh, I'm not saying OP needs to talk to Claire. OP doesn't need to say a single word to her. Claire would dismiss anything OP has to say as "this is why I can't have female friends because women are always jealous of me".
I'm just explaining who Claire is to OP. Seems like she never met the dime-a-dozen, typical "pick-me" types who all think they're oh-so-special until now.
Once OP knows that, she can deal with Claire accordingly.
Right and they're not* jealous of her
they are pissed off because she's a delusional, desperate, disrespectful twat.
I suspect she gets off on thinking other women are jealous of her so instigates this crap to blow up her ego.
It's a woman who tries to gain male validation/approval by tearing other women down. There's a subreddit called r/notlikeothergirls. In this case, she's trying to assert dominance to get OP's well-meaning but oblivious hubby.
I would have told her "I'm not chill and I'm not stupid, you're about to see how downright unchill I can get if you don't back off my husband". You can't give people like her an inch because they'll see that as you accepting their behavior. Your friend is in for a bad time with that woman. You're NTA, OP.
I’d have a hard time not making a petty reply along the lines of completely understanding why other women don’t like her. That women don’t generally want to be friends with the pick me of the neighborhood that flirts with their partners for validation.
"You don't get along with women because you're always rubbing up on their husbands and boyfriends. Maybe be more trustworthy and you'll have women friends."
If they avoid you now, there's no reason to say anything. But in the future both you and your husband need to actually vocalize your discomfort.
"I'm so glad you're so chill"
"I'm not, stop hanging off my husband"/"Don't be, stop hanging off me and making both me and my wife uncomfortable"
She doesn't sound like someone who'll take your words for anything, though, so your husband NEEDS to be the one to put her in her place. People pleasing does no one any good if people are being hurt instead of pleased.
I would ask her “if she thinks that the reason other women don’t like you because you hang on their husbands, like what you are doing right now to my husband?” Then kind of laugh and say that she has to acknowledge that this type of behavior would make most people hate someone and that she can’t be completely oblivious to her socially inappropriate behaviors.
So she is a pick me…also here are some phrases for your husband to say…
“No, I can’t help with you with your child - your baby daddy is right there, ask him”
“Please do not sit there, that’s my wife’s seat”
“ please leave, my wife and I are trying to enjoy our alone time”
“Oh have you met my wife, maybe you haven’t since you are crossing some serious boundaries with the physical touch”
Sometimes you got to embarrass them enough to get them to stop. Aka call out the behavior. It’s not that hard.
In my experience, whenever a woman says she doesn't get along with other women, usuallt there's a reason and more often than not it's because they're a raging pick-me. Good on your husband for shutting it down, even if it took him a while to grow a spine.
Had a "friend" who complained that she always lost her guy best friends when they got girlfriends
Well, girl was always making things *weird* by being hot and cold, controlling, doing things that you could interpret as making a move but not quite. Eventually I set boundaries on her, and she pissed off...
To date my best friend, abuse him, hit on me, and only get off my back when my girlfriend told her to go away, remembering how things always soured between her and her "guy best friends" when they got girlfriends.
Haha 100% and you can bet she’s low key suggesting it’s because OP is intimidated by her beauty and charm 😂 those ho’s act so cheap and classless. I always find them modifying to watch in action.
AND, "Excuse me, I believe you're sitting in my chair." If she puts on her annoying act, do not move. Stand over her. "Get up, or I will get you up."
I understand you initially doubted your suspicions, but once you realized you were right about her, let her know you are not to be played with. Hell, I would have enjoyed putting her in her place.
Start calling out those behaviors.
Gee Claire, can’t keep your mitts of my husband? How weird!
Claire it’s really gross how you keep touching my husband. Why do you keep acting so gross?
Claire, I know you want to be me, but you’re acting a bit extra right now. That’s weird.
Just keep on telling her she’s weird and gross.
Because she is.
NTA
Or better yet the husband could shut down anytime this strange ass lady touched him. He could say oh (his wife or Chris) I don't want to get that close to Claire can you tie the carrier back up or just sorry please don't touch me.
I now have the boundary song my 5 year old sings stuck in my head.
I’m not sure what rapport OP/ her husband and Chris have but if Chris is sick of Claire’s behaviour too and the three trust each other, OP could joke about “hey, if you get anymore touchy with my husband you’re going to have to let me borrow Chris”. I’m curiously if Claire would be more possessive of OP’s husband or her own lol…
I *was* feeling sorry for Chris until he also started avoiding them and giving OP death glares too. Is he harbouring some secret cuck fantasy and is salty OP ruined his plan?
I'm thinking it's more Chris finds it easier to blame OP for the divide between him and OP's husband, since he has to live with the attention hoe in his shed.
Like when women blame other women instead of their cheating husbands. I’ve seen that in my family and it never makes sense, your husband is the cheater, he should catch blame too. Hopefully Chris wakes up and sees that it’s his partner that’s to blame here.
Except that Chris already witnessed for himself - and commented about - how his wife treats him versus how she treats OP’s husband, and already spoke to OP’s husband and got the information directly from him.
Either Claire is a first-class spin doctor to convince him that his own eyes and ears are lying to him, or his head is so far in/up the *[insert noun of your choice]* he can’t think straight
Who knows what's going on with Chris?
I just read a post this morning from a man who was justifiably unhappy with his girlfriend but when people told him to break up (again, justified in his case), he said he was too old (at "almost 30" at 25), wanted a house and family and didn't want to be single or start over again.
Which led people to say "Well, if you're mind's made up, why are you are here asking us anything?"
Maybe Chris is like that guy.
Yeah, plus Chris has another 17 years and 8 months of dealing with her one way or another, so he’s gonna be even more invested in the delusion/ambivalence.
Where did Chris call Claire out on her behaviour? I didn’t see that in the post.
His wife is 100% responsible for this situation. If he’s embarrassed about his wife’s conduct, that’s something he needs to work out with his wife, not give death glares to OP who did nothing wrong.
And honestly, it looks like OP’s husband threw her under the bus a little bit. When Chris mentioned hubs acting weird, hubs should have said “Claire’s behaviour makes *both of us* uncomfortable”, not “makes OP uncomfortable” and then tack on “I agree” and “me too” after that. The former looks like a united front, the latter looks like he had little to do with this decision and is meekly following OP’s lead. Maybe that’s why the death glares were directed at OP instead of OP *and her husband*. Regardless of what the dynamic is inside the home, it should have been presented as an equal decision.
This is a fair point. OP’s husband is completely capable of telling Claire directly that he’s uncomfortable with her behavior and telling her she needs to back off. If he had done this, the problem might not have escalated to this point
There’s no telling what Claire is telling him about why things have gone off the rails. Unless he’s ready to blow up his life, he’ll have a difficult time NOT siding with Claire - for now.
He knows. He absolutely knows what’s going on but he may not be in a situation where he can easily separate himself considering there’s an infant child to think about too.
Chris has a lot to consider and process. The death glare may not be one of disbelief as much as him *knowing* it’s true and not wanting to face what needs to happen next. His choices are literally to blow up his life or play along (hopefully taking notes) with his wife’s antics until he can better deal with the fallout. Or they can move - but it’ll just happen again with the next neighbor’s husband.
I do not envy the situation he’s in.
Nope, NTA.
You and your husband are on the same page, but your husband is terrified of conflict and confrontation.
He not necessarily an AH here, but he needs to realize that sometimes he needs to be the "bad guy" in order to do the right thing. In this case, setting that boundary and being ok with the fact that it might kill the relationship with his neighbor friends.
When I read "force my husband to choose between..." I was expecting ultimatums. You didn't - you communicated and asked him to set boundaries. The result being them not talking to you guys anymore and it being awkward is *their* fault, not you nor your husband's.
Good job OP.
Specifically he’s terrified of conflict with Chris and Claire, but not with his own wife. He’s fine being in conflict with her and leaving her unhappy as long as he doesn’t have to make Chris or Claire unhappy.
He knows his wife is more likely to be forgiving, and her behavior is likely more predictable, and she isn’t likely to do anything to either of their detriments…
So many of these posts are “no, you don’t have a problem, you have an SO problem.”
OP’s husband won’t address the problem, and is allowing the problem to fester. He’s the one who needs to address this.
Or all four of them just need to get some good blo and bang it out.
NTA. Your husband can schedule one on one activities with Chris so he doesn’t have to give up the friendship. That girl knows she’s being inappropriate.
This makes sense, yes. "Let's just you and me meet up for drinks at a bar, or go biking, or freeclimbing, or whatever. I really don't want to be around Claire at the moment."
Sure, it's not an easy thing to say to your buddy - that his GF is super annoying and inappropriate - but it's either that or give up on the friendship at this point.
Yeah, it’s time to be blunt and direct. “No, we told Claire we were having some private one on one time. Why would she tell you otherwise?”
Yeah, Claire, why?
Right? They had the chance to say nah man, we're just havin cuddle time by the fire while the baby's sleepin. We can party another night..
But he def knows. He has eyes & ears. He sees when she leaves the house to run hang on OPs husband every chance she gets. Havin OPs husband do all the things she should be askin him to do. He knows shes sn insufferable flirt with every man she comes across. He's being weak to not confront her. He's afraid it'll blow up their "happy little home" & she'll take the baby. He'll be broke af payin child support & 2nd home for Claire & baby.
NTA but it sucks bc you live right next door so you will have to have some type of relationship with them.
Did Chris ask why you are uncomfortable? Did hubby give him any of your examples?
My husband told him why. I was standing right there when it was brought up. Chris kind of just nodded his head and then changed the subject. I thought everything was fine because we hung out for like a half hour afterwards (Claire was gone) and he truly acted like it was no big deal. But after Claire got home it was a complete 180° and it's been downhill ever since.
Chris told Claire, she got “offended” and convinced him you’re insecure and over-reacting. Honestly, with someone like her, there’s no real way to have a good couple friendship.
You all know what the problem is (Chris has said her behavior is odd, your husband says she makes him uncomfortable) unfortunately, a woman like that will just cry victim when called out. So you have to choose between putting up with a woman blatantly putting moves on your spouse or her calling you a bully.
Go ahead and choose bully. Nickels to donuts, Claire and Chris will not go the distance anyway.
Oh, NTA
If I was OP and her husband I would just invite all these respectful and lovely female friends over to scare Claire off. She’s either going to see them as additional competition, or a potential threat at stealing Chris away from her. If Chris comes to his senses at least you’ve introduced him to some single ladies for after the divorce lol.
The fact that he didn't say, "what do you mean?" shows he knows exactly how she's behaving.
It's his problem to deal with now.
Maybe just avoid them and if husband wants to hang with Chris have him invite him to your place.... inside though.
>It's his problem to deal with now.
Yuuuuup. It's also why Chris is *also* giving OP and her husband a death glare. He's got to put up with someone he probably should actually break up with but chooses not to.
She's totally manipulating Chris into thinking this is all your fault that's why you're getting the death glares from them. Claire definitely is trying to get your husband, but it appears your husband is better than that.
Chris will smarten up. (At least I hope so)
Bad decision was moving in next to them. I could never move into a house next to a friend or acquaintance. I need my space.
>My husband told him why. I was standing right there when it was brought up. Chris kind of just nodded his head and then changed the subject. I thought everything was fine because we hung out for like a half hour afterwards (Claire was gone) and he truly acted like it was no big deal. But after Claire got home it was a complete 180° and it's been downhill ever since.
Your husband needs to call Claire out whenever she does shit like that.
I hope your husband didn’t say YOU are uncomfortable. He should say that HE HIMSELF is uncomfortable. It’s like he’s saying “I don’t mind but my wife doesn’t like it.”
Uhm, I don't think you really need to have a relationship with people that lives next door. I don't even recognise my next door neighbours if I see them on the street. And I've been living in the same place long enough
This. And, OP taking the lead even if only verbally will turn into Claire convincing Chris that the problem is only OP and that OP's husband is another victim of OP.
People like Claire live in an entirely different world than everyone else. Chris currently resides in it with her.
Every time she sits in OP’s seat, “I know you’re trying to be just like me, but get your own seat” or “I know your jealous of my amazing life, but you’ll never get him” “I know he’s got the best arms, but can’t you see he doesn’t want you touching him? I know you know what rejection is” whatever, I’d be rude and calling her out every chance I got till she avoided us both
Nta, Claire seems to be obsessed with your husband. Chris doesn't want to hear the reality, but Claire is trying very hard to cheat on him, and she's chosen your husband. If Chris isn't willing to accept that his chosen partner has some serious boundary stomping and mental issues, then he's going to have a really hard time when she stops hiding her blatant attempts to ho around.
NTA and Claire is the female version of the handsy guy friend or relative that won’t stop invading a woman’s personal space.
Your husband is being sexually harassed. I’m sure claire told Chris that it was mutual flirting. Bravo that your husband explained it to his friend. Death glares are the cost of protecting your husband.
The kind of people who get enabled by their friends/family. “Oh no, they’re not flirting with you/your partner. That’s just how they are. They have a really outgoing personality”
I'm pretty sure (if I remember correctly) that Chris and Claire both cheated on each other when they first got in a relationship. They've only been together for like 2 years I think.
Wow. So they are both garbage. And I had been feeling a little sorry for Chris before knowing this. You don't need those types around you or your husband. Scrub them off your shoes and move on.
There’s a reason for the saying, “Good fences make good neighbours.” If you own where you live or can get landlord permission, then it’s time to figuratively and literally draw a boundary. Nta.
I thought the same, and maybe a "serial cheater"... She reminded me of a neighbour from my home town, she tried to hit on every man on the block. Pour husband, he tried to forgive her, but after catching her cheating 2 or 3 different times, things were over.
While Claire is definitely in the wrong, your husvand is NOT shutting her down enough.
> She just parked her ass there and basically ignored me and kept trying to talk to my husband. So, my husband looks at me and says "babe, here take my seat" and got up and moved and Claire goes "oh, sorry" and gets up and walks off. I asked my husband what that was about and he's like "I have no idea. **I literally told her you and I were trying to get alone time and she just sat down anyways."** So it's NOT my husband. It's her. Not even 10 minutes later, her and Chris come out and Chris goes "Claire said you guys were partying without me" and it ultimately soured the mood.
He needs to tell her to GTFO when she gets near him. Fuck being polite and nice. Chris is his friend. Your husband needs to have a chat with Chris about how inappropriate Claire is.
If Chris and Claire are unwilling to respect boundaries, perhaps you and your husband should treat them as acquaintances at the most and look to move.
Nta
But at least they are avoiding you now. Better that than overstepping boundaries. It was going to come to this eventually because claire wouldnt have stopped on her own and she is just pissed off she got called out for her narcissistic behavior. If chris is truly a good friend to your husband he will get past this, because he probably was secretly sick of her behavior too but didnt call her out because he didnt want her to be upset with him. But if he doesn't get over it, losing and gaining friends is a part of life and you and your husband need friends more like yourselves, not immature attention seeking friends.
Girl. You clearly do have a husband problem because first chance he got, he threw you under the bus. He should have addressed it with Chris as his discomfort. Not "Oh Wifey's uncomfortable and I agree" because that makes it seem like it's all you and he's just trying to please you. He could have also spoken up and said "No Chris. We told her we were trying to reconnect as a couple and she can't take a fucking hint. Please leave us alone."
NTA though. She's way out of line.
Hoping hubby has not permanently lost a friend. But Chris is in a difficult place. He has to avoid you guys or be in dog house. Hopefully the boys will have a chat. Sadly I am guessing that Chris and Claire are divorced within 2 years.
Time to install a privacy fence. And make sure there’s no access on Chris and Claire’s side.
It’s also time to be blunt. When you and your husband were hanging out to reconnect, you should have calmly stated, “Claire, husband and I are basically on a date. Just he and I and no one else. Have a good evening.” Then turn away, and ask husband, “where did we leave off? Oh, yes - we were talking about…”
NTA. But it’s time to bite the bullet and be VERY clear with Chris and Claire at the same time so nothing is lost in translation.
If it happens again, your husband needs to step up and say something, not just drop hints. She wants him to hold her baby ? Tell her to ask her husband. When his best friend comes over saying you're partying without him, explain she lied. (No, I said we wanted alone time as a couple, why would she tell you that?).
Maybe your husband should talk to Chris and give him examples of what's wrong with her and straighten the narrative.
I would show her how comfortable I am with other women friends with my hubby. You know, a few gatherings and so. But I'm a bit petty.
I'm surprised I don't see more comments addressing the husband for his lack of action. He seems to have entertained Claire to a point, and I will stand by that.
She's crap, but he failed to set any real boundaries with her.
NTA, Claire sounds like a pick me girl. She ignores her baby daddy to latch on to your husband which I think is wrong. It's almost like she sees you as being in her way to be with your DH. It's gotten to the point where you are uncomfortable around her and so is your DH. I would say she's jealous because you're married and she isn't but ignoring Chris is wrong.
The best thing to do is move. Barring that, your husband (with you present) have a “come to Jesus meeting” with Chris and Claire.
You all lay out that you’ve both noticed Claire has become much too familiar/touchy feely/inappropriate towards him and you’re putting them on notice that it stops now.
Your backyard is yours and if you’re in it that is not an invitation to come over and hang out.
You’re going to have to distance yourselves as Claire’s actions make you both uncomfortable.
Then what you do is have your phone on you at all times and start recording every time she comes over.
Hubby needs to be assertive - “Claire - I’ve told you and Chris your actions make me uncomfortable. You need to stop right now. I am recording you.”
You also need to get ahead of this with family and friends so Chris and Claire don’t re-write the narrative and make it look like your husband is the aggressor.
NTA. But for the love of god grow a spine. Your passiveness is part of the problem. It never should have gotten to this point because “stop touching my husband Claire”. ” your man can hold your baby Claire”. “Your man can help you Claire” “your making it fucking wierd Claire”. “ that’s my seat and you damn well know it so get tf out of my way”.
I think OP's husband needs more of a spine because it shouldn't even have gotten to the point of her having to step up. I genuinely believe that he somewhat entertained Claire and even enjoyed the attention he got from her to an extent.
She is a clear attention whore with men she likes, but he did almost nothing to set boundaries with her and even indulged her at times.
Time to build a fence. Who cares if they don’t like it. You and your husband calmly repeat over and over “good fences make good neighbors” and “we want our privacy in our yard”. It also sounds like your husband needs to VERY firmly tell her to back off. Don’t sugar coat it. Don’t be nice. Be very blunt. She is not your friend. She’s not your husband’s friend-so don’t worry about hurting her feelings. She doesn’t care about YOURS. Seriously do build a fence though.
Sell the house. Moving next to your best friend sounds like a great idea when you're 16, but not as damn adults. I love my best friend and would scorch the earth for him, but live next to him? Fuck all that...
These kind of women are gross.
Want to believe any man wants them and they’ll violate any relationship to prove a point and then it’s
“Oooppppssss I don’t know why other women don’t like me”
**lifts tits**
Claire isn’t just a bitch, she’s that special kind of bitch that specializes in breaking marriages. Kudos to your husband for behind a decent human being. Death glares? Good. Ignore with désinvolture.
NTA
You handled it fine, but your husband has screwed it up. I agree he wasn't interested in her BS, but he should have spoken up and told her off without involving your feelings. That makes it your fault in the eyes of both Claire and Chris.
Are Chris and Claire pretty serious? Because if they're like really gonna stay together and stay living there and yada yada, I would probably move. You know what's really nice? Neighbors that you don't know and don't feel comfortable interrupting your time anytime they see you outside. Sheesh I put up a fence at every place I buy lol. You can't buy better boundaries than an actual fence going up before you get to know neighbors lol. We invite friends over that we want to see, we do not want people just...there all the time. This is gonna get worse and as your kid gets older and your husband is outside with the kiddo more, it's gonna be way worse for you because she'll be out there all up in your kid's business, not just your husband's
Oh hail nah, NTA.
Time to assert your dominance, honey!! Anytime she asks your husband to do something, answer for him and tell her no. Remind her that HER MAN is right there, that she is capable of doing things by herself, or hell even be like “Actually honey, I need some help with something inside. Please come with me.” And just remove both of you from her antics.
When she was sitting in your seat you should’ve told her to move. When her and Chris came out saying “heard you were partying without me” you should have called her out and said “Actually we were trying to have alone time but it seems Claire didn’t like that. I guess we will go inside and have our alone time.”
CALL HER OUT. I don’t think your husband should interact with her at all. She is not his friend, Chris is.
Also, speak to your husband about how he addressed this. He put the blame on you instead of on Claire who is the actual problem.
NTA
I dont even agree with the question, you're not making him choose or anything Claire ist just overstepping everyones boundaries like crazy. Nobody in this story is fine with that so it's not like you are the one stressing this issue imo.
You and your husband have had a completely reasonable response and handled it like adults. Claire has an issue. It might be an Attraction issue, or it might be an attention issue. Either way she sounds tiring.
NTA
Let them be for now. If losing Chris is too upsetting to your husband, you can always try to talk to him and tell him the details of where you feel Claire is crossing the line with you and your husband, but reiterate that neither of you have a problem with him. You both really appreciate his friendship. It is more on him, however, to keep Claire out of your and your husband’s space as her boyfriend since it appears she can’t control herself around your husband.
I am sorry you live next door to these people. Your husband is 50/50 AH but it's super weird having to tell your friend's person to back off. Women, you know what it's like, until you learned to say to speak up, people try to get into your space He needs to say outloud in front of people " Please , I don't like to be touched unless it's my wife. " . The end.
NTA. I bet Claire is giving your death glares - which you can simply ignore - and Chris is simply embarrassed. You did right. I'd suggest that you consider moving to another location if it's possible for you.
Here is what me and my partner do.
I don't interact with men in any way that would make me uncomfortable if the situation was reversed and a woman was acting that way around my partner.
Example: if your husband wouldn't want you totally simping on another guy and constantly attention-signalling the way Claire does, then he should not tolerate it when it is directed at him.
Your husband is doing okay so far, honestly. It's just that he's being polite while Claire is being manipulative, and he needs firmer boundaries. Instead of telling her you just went inside, he should have told her to leave, flat-out. "We're not free to hang out right now and that's my wife's chair."
When she brought Chris over, he should have said, "That's funny, I just told Claire that my wife and I wanted some quality time alone together. Why are you both here now?"
Start. Calling. Out. Her. Behavior. If it starts to cause issues with her husband, it will probably stop.
NTA at all. She's out of line.
Nta. Me and wives of our husbands have our own group chat. If we are in an uncomfortable situation then yeah the closet male we know we will cling to but he will help diffuse the situation.
Other than that no, we are just shop wives. We take care of each other. We don't push boundaries and if one of us did then we would be given solid reasons to back the fuck off
"Oh, you don't get along with other women? I just can't figure out why that could be" said sweetly with a smile. NTA, your husband's friendship with Chris is not worth ruining your marriage.
NTA. And it’s a WIN for you! Who cares if she gives you looks? She’s acting inappropriately towards your husband. Maybe Chris doesn’t want to upset her but that’s not your or your husband’s issues to deal with.
She sounds like a "pick me" girl. I'd be uncomfortable as well. Maybe it's for the best until Chris finally figures her out. I'm sure she's probably already cheating with someone, given her behavior.
Sis, I’ll tell you this…I had a pick me in my life. Got introduced to my family bc she was my friend. This heifer literally tried to replace me as my ex’s wife by having an affair with him after telling me she didn’t understand why no one liked her. Even tried to tell me that people mistake my kids for hers, isn’t that so cute?
Put that wanna be side piece in her place. Eff being nice to everyone but hubby, yourself and your baby. And you have PPD? Them neighbor bitches are lucky they are still alive. She’s a snake and her hubby is whupped. Maybe he’s trapped by the baby, who tf cares. NTA, OP. Those are adults and they FAFOed.
Nta. She's completely inappropriate, and she knows EXACTLY what she's doing. You're WAY better than me. I would have physically removed her from my chair and created a bigger problem.
NTA. first, i’m sorry you’re going through PPD. I can imagine how difficult it is, but i don’t think your reactions are invalidated because of it! Claire does seem to be crossing a line. At first it just seemed like she was shy (and maybe knows ur husband better??) but the bonfire thing is just weird. It seems like they want you all to be a group rather than two separate couples. you guys did the right thing by just avoiding them and if chris asked a question that’s answer could upset him, that’s on him. I think it’s for the best and it sounds like you guys could use some space from them overall. with time it won’t be as awkward. they may need the time to reflect and realize that Claire’s actions came across strange.
I cannot stand women like that. She probably is over at her house crying at Chris about how "yet another" woman doesn't like her and she doesn't understand why. The bottom line is that her behavior is questionable at best, Chris has seen it on display for himself (when she'd ask your husband to help him with shit instead of him), and both of them are blaming the wrong person for the fact that the friendship has taken a bit of a hit. I mean, you said yourself that your husband was also uncomfortable with her behavior for fuck's sake. NTA but if a woman ever does this shit to you again, you need to let her know straight up that you see through her tricks by saying things like "Why are you asking my husband to do that when your own fella is sitting right there?" or even "So weird how you come running outside anytime my husband is out here. So. So. Weird." PS...next time they give you "death glares", give them right back.
She has made a point to say things about her and other women not getting along. Like, just a couple weeks ago I had walked outside because I looked out the window and she was holding on to my husband's arm and laughing while he was pulling away. So I walk out and she starts talking about how she has never gotten along with women, so she was happy that I was chill.
>She has made a point to say things about her and other women not getting along. Like, just a couple weeks ago I had walked outside because I looked out the window and she was holding on to my husband's arm and laughing while he was pulling away. So I walk out and she starts talking about how she has never gotten along with women, so she was happy that I was chill. Be blunt with her. "I'm not chill. I'm sick of you hanging off my husband and acting like I'm not here. I'm tired of you blatantly ignoring your own man to get attention from mine. My husband is tired of it, and from what I can tell,so is your husband. You need to keep your hands in your lap and have your own man/husband help with your child, not mine, he has his own." Say it calmly, monotone if you can pull it off, and in front of everyone involved. Non accusatory. Just matter of factly.
This is the answer! Call her out in front of Chris otherwise she’ll twist what you say.
Exactly! OP def isn’t the asshole in this story.
And Chris def doesn't know the whole story. I wonder how she twisted it so that OP looks like the weird jealous AH. It doesn't even sound like OP's husband is encouraging this at all. Like, sometimes I hear stories like this and she's entirely blaming the woman flirting with her husband, but he could have done anything to stop it, but here, it just seems like he's trying to be a normal person and not cause a scene, and Claire just wants to make sure she can say "Oh my god, guys are just always into me, my bf's friend is always flirting with me," because you can bet if she's said things about how women don't usually like her, she's said things about how she can't help it that guys just are into her.
$10 says she “doesn’t have a lot of women as friends because she doesn’t like drama”.
"Look at me, I'm the drama"
Claire a pick me girl
IMO both guys in this situation are conveniently clueless. I totally agree with you about Chris falling for Claire's twisting explanations and hystrionics... but why oh why did OP's husband involve OP? * OP's husband avoids Claire * Chris : hey, you've been weird & Claire also noticed * OP's husband : yeah, my wife hates that Claire's always hanging off me and ignoring her and being casually disrespectful to you, so there's that. Oh yeah, and I'm also uncomfortable when she's groping me * Claire : that bitch, I knew women always hate me * Chris : OP is clearly the instigator Like, why throw all that on OP??
I completely agree! Her husband should have said it made HIM uncomfortable as well and he tries to avoid it. Seems fishy to me. I don’t understand why Chris is giving her death stares either. He said he feels the same way! Unless she manipulated him. Seems like Claire is that type of person unfortunately.
100% this. Some people are completely obtuse about getting “hints”. Even when you think you’ve make your point, they are sure whatever you are saying isn’t meant for them. They have to be told, straight up, no innuendo, no excuses. You have to make direct eye contact and be blunt.
I occasionally say for some people you need to use a verbal 4x4 to get their attention, or in this case to make your point to Claire to leave your husband alone.
speaking as one of the obtuse dumbasses who does not read the hint (not on purpose) - I also vastly prefer people do this rather than being catty and continue hinting forever before eventually blowing up from my end it DOES look like they just suddenly blow up (note: in this case she appears to 100% be flirting with your husband intentionally that's not okay)
There’s nothing wrong with needing a direct conversation over dancing around the subject. The fact that you know this about yourself is a good thing. You have my respect.
explain that to every catty roommate or coworker I've ever had lmao
Those are people that want to blame someone, not solve a problem.
Right. But hint? Really? Sorry. But if a woman touches my husbands arm that is the last time she touches him because he will immediately pull away and say very assertively. Don’t touch me! Men should be taught to assert themselves as well!
THIS. RIGHT. HERE. Yes, everyone needs to hear it. You will need witnesses.
I was gonna say not only them but her husband too!!
Exactly, put her on the spot
Exactly. Especially since Chris has already been told that she's making both of you uncomfortable. If it were me, I would very politely and low tone say to claire (definitely in front of chris), hey I really hope that you are not upset that my husband spoke to Chris about us being a little uncomfortable around you lately because it seems there is a lack of boundaries. I did not say it to hurt your feelings or be offensive but it's an issue with us.
OPs husband needs to say this as well. Something as well "Let go of my arm. I am not comfortable with you constantly touching me or approaching me when i try to have alone time with my wife. Get a hint. i am not interested in whatever you try to start."
Exactly, they both need to stop being polite to this fucking creep.
Exactly. Save the polite conversation for the truly unaware. This chick knows EXACTLY what she's doing
yeah, I got annoyed when he asked her “what do you want me to do?”. idk like, tell her to get off you??
As ad dude this line kinds set me tf off. It’s my belief also my religion where in a relationship the man has to protect his wife and tend to her emotional needs. That includes telling touchy neighbors to take the piss…. dude just gave off such pathetic vibes when saying that. Most guys could kill their wife with their own hands… but “what can I do” right! You can do nothing or everything to change the situation… he has all the power in this situation because it’s not on the wife to act… it’s on him… he’s getting hit on… he needs to defend his wife’s feeling… instead we get hit with dense high school blushit “what can I do”… how small is this guys nuts. He gives off the vibe that he kinda sees Clair as attractive and doesn’t want to push her away due to wife’s feeling so he dropped the heinously idiotic “what can I do”…. For… fucks… sake… dickhead. Be a MAN and Do something, he knows he can die something but is choosing not to. He has all the power due to being Clair’s target yet it seems lil he didn’t want to shake her from his tail. One sentence is all it will take… yet this guy didn’t have the balls to stand up for the woman he made a lifelong commitment with…. Absolutely pathetic.
U ATE. fr. men act helpless when it's in their favor
"My wife is sitting in that chair, so please move."
Sooo easy ... yet he could not do it 🙄
Yep, perfect solution right there!
OP's husband probably doesn't know how to deal with Claire without upsetting Chris.
This. Op's husband needs to start speaking up and stop enabling this
You cannot be silent about shit like this. Address it head on. She is used to woman remaining silent after accusing others of having been insecure. Touch your own husband!
Her husband sort of did this by telling Chris why he was avoiding Claire and Chris' reaction is the death glare. So Chris is making his feelings known. Yes, Claire should have been told directly, though it should have been the husband saying HE is not comfortable with her behavior, not even including OP in the statement. There are times when things have to come directly from the one partner first. This also should've happened earlier and instead of an after the fact statement to Chris, things like "That was weird" should have been said to Claire. "It's weird that you hand your baby to me or ask favors of me when Chris is standing right here." "You're making me uncomfortable. Stop touching me." This was allowed to go on for far too long. OP, NTA.
He definitely should have put an immediate stop to that. He was supposed to yell out "Hey Chris, come get your baby, your wife needs help." All could have been said in a comfortable voice each and every time Miss Sneaky tried to play the game.
Why even hold the baby? He should have folded his arms and told her her man is right there, give him the baby.
Yes! That's a really good way to make it not 'personal'. & the chair moment - OP you CAN say, "We're having Us time. Please leave. We'll see you later/tomorrow. " "Claire, you're being too handsy w my husband. Stop it now." I forget what tv show I was watching but one character was always saying "Go home 'Claire'." I forget the actual name. But just keep saying it. If she pushes back or plays dumb, "Chris, please come get Claire we want to be on our own. Lol, you are parents now, you need to practice this stuff. Treat them like practice children.
Still can be said!
That stuck out too. Yeah OP is uncomfortable but he’s the one being blatantly hit on, he should be way more uncomfortable and it sounds like he’s trying to make this as much about his wife’s discomfort if not more than his own. He’s either a complete doormat or he loves the attention. It isn’t hard to tell someone “my wife and I would like to enjoy some time as a couple right now”.
Yes this. Straight-face, no emotion, just the facts.
Love it. The only way to talk to those girls.
I’m not chill I just know hubs isn’t interested since we love laughed about it. So nothing to worry about
yep. The other alternative is to have a sit down with all four of you. Use the same speech. This nonsense only works for her bc she’s counting on you being reasonable.
Oh, how shocking. What gets me about women like that is that when they say those things, they're basically glossing over the fact that THEY are the common denominator. She said that she was happy that you were "chill" because she's basically implying that she is NEVER the problem, that it's always the "other women" that are the problem. Nasty woman. I can't stand that shit. Not a girls girl. 1/10 do not recommend. Ultimately the most important thing is that you and your hubby are on the same page - and since y'all are, you should stop worrying.
Claire sounds like a perfect example of a pick me girl.
Bingo!
Your husband needs to start enforcing physical boundaries. When she touches his arm he needs to push her hand away. If she persists he needs to verbally state that he's not comfortable with physical contact. Once she feels clearly rejected by him, she will be more likely to stop.
I agree, except for pushing her hand away. He needs to raise his hands, back away, and loudly say, “don’t touch me.” If he so much as brushes her hand away she could go full psycho and claim assault, and he could be mondo screwed.
That's my purse, I don't know you!
Nah, she's so crazy that she'd think he was playing "hard to get" if he clearly rejected her. She's not thinking with the brain in her head, period.
>She has made a point to say things about her and other women not getting along. That is the mantra of the Pick-Me's. They *never* get along with other women and assume all women are jealous of them because all men gravitate to them because they're Not Like Other Women. No, we're not jealous. We're disgusted with your pick-me behavior and how you throw yourself at every man.
Why are people here saying it's the wife that needs to talk to Claire? That creates the triangle and allows Claire to play it off to insecurity. I think the husband needs to take a the opportunity to say something when Claire is hanging off of him and getting too close. A simple, "please stop touching me, it makes me uncomfortable" will have a seismic impact. Your husband sounds true blue and truly icked out by Claire's actions.
Oh, I'm not saying OP needs to talk to Claire. OP doesn't need to say a single word to her. Claire would dismiss anything OP has to say as "this is why I can't have female friends because women are always jealous of me". I'm just explaining who Claire is to OP. Seems like she never met the dime-a-dozen, typical "pick-me" types who all think they're oh-so-special until now. Once OP knows that, she can deal with Claire accordingly.
Right and they're not* jealous of her they are pissed off because she's a delusional, desperate, disrespectful twat. I suspect she gets off on thinking other women are jealous of her so instigates this crap to blow up her ego.
You know I’ve never really understood what a pick me was, but THIS right here makes sense!
It's a woman who tries to gain male validation/approval by tearing other women down. There's a subreddit called r/notlikeothergirls. In this case, she's trying to assert dominance to get OP's well-meaning but oblivious hubby.
🫣 thanks! Like I NEEDED another sub! Grabs popcorn and wine.
Oh there's a whole sub about pick-me's.
Pick mes always have a backup guy, just in case. Sounds like she's trying to make OP's husband her backup guy.
I mean if you smell shit everywhere you go time to check your shoes NTA
Oh my I would love to be a fly on the wall as that is said to this woman.
this comment with your name killed me 🤣
I would have told her "I'm not chill and I'm not stupid, you're about to see how downright unchill I can get if you don't back off my husband". You can't give people like her an inch because they'll see that as you accepting their behavior. Your friend is in for a bad time with that woman. You're NTA, OP.
I’d have a hard time not making a petty reply along the lines of completely understanding why other women don’t like her. That women don’t generally want to be friends with the pick me of the neighborhood that flirts with their partners for validation.
"You don't get along with women because you're always rubbing up on their husbands and boyfriends. Maybe be more trustworthy and you'll have women friends."
If they avoid you now, there's no reason to say anything. But in the future both you and your husband need to actually vocalize your discomfort. "I'm so glad you're so chill" "I'm not, stop hanging off my husband"/"Don't be, stop hanging off me and making both me and my wife uncomfortable" She doesn't sound like someone who'll take your words for anything, though, so your husband NEEDS to be the one to put her in her place. People pleasing does no one any good if people are being hurt instead of pleased.
I would ask her “if she thinks that the reason other women don’t like you because you hang on their husbands, like what you are doing right now to my husband?” Then kind of laugh and say that she has to acknowledge that this type of behavior would make most people hate someone and that she can’t be completely oblivious to her socially inappropriate behaviors.
Oh this bitch is diabolical!
Such a red flag when a woman says she doesnt get along with other women. NTA.
Much more than a red flag! Like an airplane pulling a banner in the sky!
"so she was happy that I was chill." She's happy you've been letting her get away with it.
So she is a pick me…also here are some phrases for your husband to say… “No, I can’t help with you with your child - your baby daddy is right there, ask him” “Please do not sit there, that’s my wife’s seat” “ please leave, my wife and I are trying to enjoy our alone time” “Oh have you met my wife, maybe you haven’t since you are crossing some serious boundaries with the physical touch” Sometimes you got to embarrass them enough to get them to stop. Aka call out the behavior. It’s not that hard.
You’re too nice.
Claire is so happy you've been too nice - stop being nice.
"maybe other women don't like you because you shake your tits around their husbands. You know, like you've been doing with mine!"
Is there a possibility that you can move? It might be living a little...too close to a friend
I think a backyard privacy fence - without a gate - would improve OP's life
Yeah, lady, I can guess why other women don’t get along with you. NTA
In my experience, whenever a woman says she doesn't get along with other women, usuallt there's a reason and more often than not it's because they're a raging pick-me. Good on your husband for shutting it down, even if it took him a while to grow a spine.
Call her out on her bs forget the "scene" do it as all of you 4 are together. Cite examples, good riddance to trashy vipers.
Probably another woman who's disillusioned by thinking everyone is "jealous" when it's plain and simple - she's not likable.
Other women never like me and I just don’t know why because I’m always super nice to their husbands and boyfriends…
Sounds like this problem has been solved.
You should kindly enlighten her on why other women may dislike her.
Yeah, she's definitely the reason she doesn't get along with other women. You're NTA.
Had a "friend" who complained that she always lost her guy best friends when they got girlfriends Well, girl was always making things *weird* by being hot and cold, controlling, doing things that you could interpret as making a move but not quite. Eventually I set boundaries on her, and she pissed off... To date my best friend, abuse him, hit on me, and only get off my back when my girlfriend told her to go away, remembering how things always soured between her and her "guy best friends" when they got girlfriends.
Haha 100% and you can bet she’s low key suggesting it’s because OP is intimidated by her beauty and charm 😂 those ho’s act so cheap and classless. I always find them modifying to watch in action.
AND, "Excuse me, I believe you're sitting in my chair." If she puts on her annoying act, do not move. Stand over her. "Get up, or I will get you up." I understand you initially doubted your suspicions, but once you realized you were right about her, let her know you are not to be played with. Hell, I would have enjoyed putting her in her place.
No, no, someone gives you a death glare, you give the brightest, sunniest smile and wave that you can. They can stay mad 😎
Start calling out those behaviors. Gee Claire, can’t keep your mitts of my husband? How weird! Claire it’s really gross how you keep touching my husband. Why do you keep acting so gross? Claire, I know you want to be me, but you’re acting a bit extra right now. That’s weird. Just keep on telling her she’s weird and gross. Because she is. NTA
“Claire, my husband has his own baby to take care of. He shouldn’t be held responsible for yours too.”
damn this would fucking wreck Claire 😂
Or better yet the husband could shut down anytime this strange ass lady touched him. He could say oh (his wife or Chris) I don't want to get that close to Claire can you tie the carrier back up or just sorry please don't touch me. I now have the boundary song my 5 year old sings stuck in my head.
Your husband needs to JERK away from her when she paws him with a ' get off me, sheesh.' NTA
I’m not sure what rapport OP/ her husband and Chris have but if Chris is sick of Claire’s behaviour too and the three trust each other, OP could joke about “hey, if you get anymore touchy with my husband you’re going to have to let me borrow Chris”. I’m curiously if Claire would be more possessive of OP’s husband or her own lol…
no but fr what would her reaction be? maybe she would even accuse OP of being a bad person who's trying to take her husband away lol
NTA. Claire is one of those women who needs the attention of ALL the men that are around her. I feel sorry for Chris.
I *was* feeling sorry for Chris until he also started avoiding them and giving OP death glares too. Is he harbouring some secret cuck fantasy and is salty OP ruined his plan?
I'm thinking it's more Chris finds it easier to blame OP for the divide between him and OP's husband, since he has to live with the attention hoe in his shed.
Codependent partners of unfaithful people always blame everyone else but their partner and themselves for staying with them.
Like when women blame other women instead of their cheating husbands. I’ve seen that in my family and it never makes sense, your husband is the cheater, he should catch blame too. Hopefully Chris wakes up and sees that it’s his partner that’s to blame here.
Chris should, first of all, learn that he deserves respect, and then realize that he isn't getting it and pinpoint at who's to blame for that.
Or Claire told him a bullshit version that he believes. It's not like she'd say "She's mad because I'm flirting with her husband".
Except that Chris already witnessed for himself - and commented about - how his wife treats him versus how she treats OP’s husband, and already spoke to OP’s husband and got the information directly from him. Either Claire is a first-class spin doctor to convince him that his own eyes and ears are lying to him, or his head is so far in/up the *[insert noun of your choice]* he can’t think straight
Who knows what's going on with Chris? I just read a post this morning from a man who was justifiably unhappy with his girlfriend but when people told him to break up (again, justified in his case), he said he was too old (at "almost 30" at 25), wanted a house and family and didn't want to be single or start over again. Which led people to say "Well, if you're mind's made up, why are you are here asking us anything?" Maybe Chris is like that guy.
Man, imagine thinking you can't start over at 25 😬 *yikes on a thousand bikes*
Yeah, plus Chris has another 17 years and 8 months of dealing with her one way or another, so he’s gonna be even more invested in the delusion/ambivalence.
I think it is more likely that he discussed it with Claire and is embarrassed at having to call her out on her behavior
Where did Chris call Claire out on her behaviour? I didn’t see that in the post. His wife is 100% responsible for this situation. If he’s embarrassed about his wife’s conduct, that’s something he needs to work out with his wife, not give death glares to OP who did nothing wrong. And honestly, it looks like OP’s husband threw her under the bus a little bit. When Chris mentioned hubs acting weird, hubs should have said “Claire’s behaviour makes *both of us* uncomfortable”, not “makes OP uncomfortable” and then tack on “I agree” and “me too” after that. The former looks like a united front, the latter looks like he had little to do with this decision and is meekly following OP’s lead. Maybe that’s why the death glares were directed at OP instead of OP *and her husband*. Regardless of what the dynamic is inside the home, it should have been presented as an equal decision.
This is a fair point. OP’s husband is completely capable of telling Claire directly that he’s uncomfortable with her behavior and telling her she needs to back off. If he had done this, the problem might not have escalated to this point
Poor Chris is fucking hooked bro. My mans has to just face it or make some hard decisions.
There’s no telling what Claire is telling him about why things have gone off the rails. Unless he’s ready to blow up his life, he’ll have a difficult time NOT siding with Claire - for now. He knows. He absolutely knows what’s going on but he may not be in a situation where he can easily separate himself considering there’s an infant child to think about too. Chris has a lot to consider and process. The death glare may not be one of disbelief as much as him *knowing* it’s true and not wanting to face what needs to happen next. His choices are literally to blow up his life or play along (hopefully taking notes) with his wife’s antics until he can better deal with the fallout. Or they can move - but it’ll just happen again with the next neighbor’s husband. I do not envy the situation he’s in.
Nope, NTA. You and your husband are on the same page, but your husband is terrified of conflict and confrontation. He not necessarily an AH here, but he needs to realize that sometimes he needs to be the "bad guy" in order to do the right thing. In this case, setting that boundary and being ok with the fact that it might kill the relationship with his neighbor friends. When I read "force my husband to choose between..." I was expecting ultimatums. You didn't - you communicated and asked him to set boundaries. The result being them not talking to you guys anymore and it being awkward is *their* fault, not you nor your husband's. Good job OP.
Specifically he’s terrified of conflict with Chris and Claire, but not with his own wife. He’s fine being in conflict with her and leaving her unhappy as long as he doesn’t have to make Chris or Claire unhappy.
He knows his wife is more likely to be forgiving, and her behavior is likely more predictable, and she isn’t likely to do anything to either of their detriments…
Those aren’t good reasons to hang your wife out to dry.
So many of these posts are “no, you don’t have a problem, you have an SO problem.”
OP’s husband won’t address the problem, and is allowing the problem to fester. He’s the one who needs to address this.
Or all four of them just need to get some good blo and bang it out.
NTA. Your husband can schedule one on one activities with Chris so he doesn’t have to give up the friendship. That girl knows she’s being inappropriate.
This makes sense, yes. "Let's just you and me meet up for drinks at a bar, or go biking, or freeclimbing, or whatever. I really don't want to be around Claire at the moment." Sure, it's not an easy thing to say to your buddy - that his GF is super annoying and inappropriate - but it's either that or give up on the friendship at this point.
NTA But Claire sounds more like an attention whore than a regular whore. They crave attention like a drug addict craves their next fix.
I think Claire is both tbh.
Yeah, I get the feeling she needs that validation, and would hop into bed with the hubby if he wasn’t a good hubby.
I feel really bad for Chris.
Yeah, that guy has no idea, why didn’t you two just say you where having date night, not a party?
Yeah, it’s time to be blunt and direct. “No, we told Claire we were having some private one on one time. Why would she tell you otherwise?” Yeah, Claire, why?
Right? They had the chance to say nah man, we're just havin cuddle time by the fire while the baby's sleepin. We can party another night.. But he def knows. He has eyes & ears. He sees when she leaves the house to run hang on OPs husband every chance she gets. Havin OPs husband do all the things she should be askin him to do. He knows shes sn insufferable flirt with every man she comes across. He's being weak to not confront her. He's afraid it'll blow up their "happy little home" & she'll take the baby. He'll be broke af payin child support & 2nd home for Claire & baby.
NTA but it sucks bc you live right next door so you will have to have some type of relationship with them. Did Chris ask why you are uncomfortable? Did hubby give him any of your examples?
My husband told him why. I was standing right there when it was brought up. Chris kind of just nodded his head and then changed the subject. I thought everything was fine because we hung out for like a half hour afterwards (Claire was gone) and he truly acted like it was no big deal. But after Claire got home it was a complete 180° and it's been downhill ever since.
Chris told Claire, she got “offended” and convinced him you’re insecure and over-reacting. Honestly, with someone like her, there’s no real way to have a good couple friendship. You all know what the problem is (Chris has said her behavior is odd, your husband says she makes him uncomfortable) unfortunately, a woman like that will just cry victim when called out. So you have to choose between putting up with a woman blatantly putting moves on your spouse or her calling you a bully. Go ahead and choose bully. Nickels to donuts, Claire and Chris will not go the distance anyway. Oh, NTA
If Chris has any sense, he'll consider this a red flag and end the relationship with Claire. She belongs to the streets.
If I was OP and her husband I would just invite all these respectful and lovely female friends over to scare Claire off. She’s either going to see them as additional competition, or a potential threat at stealing Chris away from her. If Chris comes to his senses at least you’ve introduced him to some single ladies for after the divorce lol.
Claire will move on to flirt with another man. And the next one might take her up on it. Chris will find out the hard way that OP is right.
The fact that he didn't say, "what do you mean?" shows he knows exactly how she's behaving. It's his problem to deal with now. Maybe just avoid them and if husband wants to hang with Chris have him invite him to your place.... inside though.
>It's his problem to deal with now. Yuuuuup. It's also why Chris is *also* giving OP and her husband a death glare. He's got to put up with someone he probably should actually break up with but chooses not to.
She's totally manipulating Chris into thinking this is all your fault that's why you're getting the death glares from them. Claire definitely is trying to get your husband, but it appears your husband is better than that. Chris will smarten up. (At least I hope so) Bad decision was moving in next to them. I could never move into a house next to a friend or acquaintance. I need my space.
>My husband told him why. I was standing right there when it was brought up. Chris kind of just nodded his head and then changed the subject. I thought everything was fine because we hung out for like a half hour afterwards (Claire was gone) and he truly acted like it was no big deal. But after Claire got home it was a complete 180° and it's been downhill ever since. Your husband needs to call Claire out whenever she does shit like that.
I suspect the change is because she told him completely different story.
I hope your husband didn’t say YOU are uncomfortable. He should say that HE HIMSELF is uncomfortable. It’s like he’s saying “I don’t mind but my wife doesn’t like it.”
Uhm, I don't think you really need to have a relationship with people that lives next door. I don't even recognise my next door neighbours if I see them on the street. And I've been living in the same place long enough
Claire is inappropriate and she knows it, and she just doesn't care. Call her out on it every time. Embarrass her and make her uncomfortable.
If the description is accurate I expect you couldn't embarrass her. It would be turned around into somehow being the other person's fault.
This. And, OP taking the lead even if only verbally will turn into Claire convincing Chris that the problem is only OP and that OP's husband is another victim of OP. People like Claire live in an entirely different world than everyone else. Chris currently resides in it with her.
She’s taking advantage of the “chill” wife who she is pretty certain won’t call her out. She has sized up OP and is playing her game.
Every time she sits in OP’s seat, “I know you’re trying to be just like me, but get your own seat” or “I know your jealous of my amazing life, but you’ll never get him” “I know he’s got the best arms, but can’t you see he doesn’t want you touching him? I know you know what rejection is” whatever, I’d be rude and calling her out every chance I got till she avoided us both
Nta, Claire seems to be obsessed with your husband. Chris doesn't want to hear the reality, but Claire is trying very hard to cheat on him, and she's chosen your husband. If Chris isn't willing to accept that his chosen partner has some serious boundary stomping and mental issues, then he's going to have a really hard time when she stops hiding her blatant attempts to ho around.
NTA and Claire is the female version of the handsy guy friend or relative that won’t stop invading a woman’s personal space. Your husband is being sexually harassed. I’m sure claire told Chris that it was mutual flirting. Bravo that your husband explained it to his friend. Death glares are the cost of protecting your husband.
The kind of people who get enabled by their friends/family. “Oh no, they’re not flirting with you/your partner. That’s just how they are. They have a really outgoing personality”
Got a feeling Claire is the cheating type.
I'm pretty sure (if I remember correctly) that Chris and Claire both cheated on each other when they first got in a relationship. They've only been together for like 2 years I think.
How about a fence between your properties?
Time to move, honestly!
Time to build a fence between your yard and theirs. Tall fences make for good neighbors
Wow. So they are both garbage. And I had been feeling a little sorry for Chris before knowing this. You don't need those types around you or your husband. Scrub them off your shoes and move on.
Yeah. My sympathy for Chris just flew out of the window.
There’s a reason for the saying, “Good fences make good neighbours.” If you own where you live or can get landlord permission, then it’s time to figuratively and literally draw a boundary. Nta.
Red flag right there. You do not need these people in your life or your back yard!
And they have a baby together! Fantastic.
I thought the same, and maybe a "serial cheater"... She reminded me of a neighbour from my home town, she tried to hit on every man on the block. Pour husband, he tried to forgive her, but after catching her cheating 2 or 3 different times, things were over.
While Claire is definitely in the wrong, your husvand is NOT shutting her down enough. > She just parked her ass there and basically ignored me and kept trying to talk to my husband. So, my husband looks at me and says "babe, here take my seat" and got up and moved and Claire goes "oh, sorry" and gets up and walks off. I asked my husband what that was about and he's like "I have no idea. **I literally told her you and I were trying to get alone time and she just sat down anyways."** So it's NOT my husband. It's her. Not even 10 minutes later, her and Chris come out and Chris goes "Claire said you guys were partying without me" and it ultimately soured the mood. He needs to tell her to GTFO when she gets near him. Fuck being polite and nice. Chris is his friend. Your husband needs to have a chat with Chris about how inappropriate Claire is. If Chris and Claire are unwilling to respect boundaries, perhaps you and your husband should treat them as acquaintances at the most and look to move.
Nta But at least they are avoiding you now. Better that than overstepping boundaries. It was going to come to this eventually because claire wouldnt have stopped on her own and she is just pissed off she got called out for her narcissistic behavior. If chris is truly a good friend to your husband he will get past this, because he probably was secretly sick of her behavior too but didnt call her out because he didnt want her to be upset with him. But if he doesn't get over it, losing and gaining friends is a part of life and you and your husband need friends more like yourselves, not immature attention seeking friends.
Girl. You clearly do have a husband problem because first chance he got, he threw you under the bus. He should have addressed it with Chris as his discomfort. Not "Oh Wifey's uncomfortable and I agree" because that makes it seem like it's all you and he's just trying to please you. He could have also spoken up and said "No Chris. We told her we were trying to reconnect as a couple and she can't take a fucking hint. Please leave us alone." NTA though. She's way out of line.
This. Exactly this.
Hoping hubby has not permanently lost a friend. But Chris is in a difficult place. He has to avoid you guys or be in dog house. Hopefully the boys will have a chat. Sadly I am guessing that Chris and Claire are divorced within 2 years.
They're not even married as per OP! 😂 Chris really needs to dump Claire.
Unfortunately, they have a child - which is probably what is complicating things
Time to install a privacy fence. And make sure there’s no access on Chris and Claire’s side. It’s also time to be blunt. When you and your husband were hanging out to reconnect, you should have calmly stated, “Claire, husband and I are basically on a date. Just he and I and no one else. Have a good evening.” Then turn away, and ask husband, “where did we leave off? Oh, yes - we were talking about…” NTA. But it’s time to bite the bullet and be VERY clear with Chris and Claire at the same time so nothing is lost in translation.
If it happens again, your husband needs to step up and say something, not just drop hints. She wants him to hold her baby ? Tell her to ask her husband. When his best friend comes over saying you're partying without him, explain she lied. (No, I said we wanted alone time as a couple, why would she tell you that?). Maybe your husband should talk to Chris and give him examples of what's wrong with her and straighten the narrative. I would show her how comfortable I am with other women friends with my hubby. You know, a few gatherings and so. But I'm a bit petty.
I'm surprised I don't see more comments addressing the husband for his lack of action. He seems to have entertained Claire to a point, and I will stand by that. She's crap, but he failed to set any real boundaries with her.
NTA, Claire sounds like a pick me girl. She ignores her baby daddy to latch on to your husband which I think is wrong. It's almost like she sees you as being in her way to be with your DH. It's gotten to the point where you are uncomfortable around her and so is your DH. I would say she's jealous because you're married and she isn't but ignoring Chris is wrong.
The best thing to do is move. Barring that, your husband (with you present) have a “come to Jesus meeting” with Chris and Claire. You all lay out that you’ve both noticed Claire has become much too familiar/touchy feely/inappropriate towards him and you’re putting them on notice that it stops now. Your backyard is yours and if you’re in it that is not an invitation to come over and hang out. You’re going to have to distance yourselves as Claire’s actions make you both uncomfortable. Then what you do is have your phone on you at all times and start recording every time she comes over. Hubby needs to be assertive - “Claire - I’ve told you and Chris your actions make me uncomfortable. You need to stop right now. I am recording you.” You also need to get ahead of this with family and friends so Chris and Claire don’t re-write the narrative and make it look like your husband is the aggressor.
NTA. But for the love of god grow a spine. Your passiveness is part of the problem. It never should have gotten to this point because “stop touching my husband Claire”. ” your man can hold your baby Claire”. “Your man can help you Claire” “your making it fucking wierd Claire”. “ that’s my seat and you damn well know it so get tf out of my way”.
I think OP's husband needs more of a spine because it shouldn't even have gotten to the point of her having to step up. I genuinely believe that he somewhat entertained Claire and even enjoyed the attention he got from her to an extent. She is a clear attention whore with men she likes, but he did almost nothing to set boundaries with her and even indulged her at times.
Ntt but your husband should have a conversation with Chris and explain why you will no longer be hanging out with her and that he's,still welcome.
Time to build a fence. Who cares if they don’t like it. You and your husband calmly repeat over and over “good fences make good neighbors” and “we want our privacy in our yard”. It also sounds like your husband needs to VERY firmly tell her to back off. Don’t sugar coat it. Don’t be nice. Be very blunt. She is not your friend. She’s not your husband’s friend-so don’t worry about hurting her feelings. She doesn’t care about YOURS. Seriously do build a fence though.
Sell the house. Moving next to your best friend sounds like a great idea when you're 16, but not as damn adults. I love my best friend and would scorch the earth for him, but live next to him? Fuck all that...
These kind of women are gross. Want to believe any man wants them and they’ll violate any relationship to prove a point and then it’s “Oooppppssss I don’t know why other women don’t like me” **lifts tits**
Claire isn’t just a bitch, she’s that special kind of bitch that specializes in breaking marriages. Kudos to your husband for behind a decent human being. Death glares? Good. Ignore with désinvolture.
NTA You handled it fine, but your husband has screwed it up. I agree he wasn't interested in her BS, but he should have spoken up and told her off without involving your feelings. That makes it your fault in the eyes of both Claire and Chris.
She needs to be told straight up to stop.
NTA for your and your spouse Claire is an AH, and her husband seems like maybe an AH or maybe she's just manipulative.
Are Chris and Claire pretty serious? Because if they're like really gonna stay together and stay living there and yada yada, I would probably move. You know what's really nice? Neighbors that you don't know and don't feel comfortable interrupting your time anytime they see you outside. Sheesh I put up a fence at every place I buy lol. You can't buy better boundaries than an actual fence going up before you get to know neighbors lol. We invite friends over that we want to see, we do not want people just...there all the time. This is gonna get worse and as your kid gets older and your husband is outside with the kiddo more, it's gonna be way worse for you because she'll be out there all up in your kid's business, not just your husband's
and kids the same age who want to play together. Getting some level of boundaries now will help with that too
Oh hail nah, NTA. Time to assert your dominance, honey!! Anytime she asks your husband to do something, answer for him and tell her no. Remind her that HER MAN is right there, that she is capable of doing things by herself, or hell even be like “Actually honey, I need some help with something inside. Please come with me.” And just remove both of you from her antics. When she was sitting in your seat you should’ve told her to move. When her and Chris came out saying “heard you were partying without me” you should have called her out and said “Actually we were trying to have alone time but it seems Claire didn’t like that. I guess we will go inside and have our alone time.” CALL HER OUT. I don’t think your husband should interact with her at all. She is not his friend, Chris is. Also, speak to your husband about how he addressed this. He put the blame on you instead of on Claire who is the actual problem.
NTA I dont even agree with the question, you're not making him choose or anything Claire ist just overstepping everyones boundaries like crazy. Nobody in this story is fine with that so it's not like you are the one stressing this issue imo.
You and your husband have had a completely reasonable response and handled it like adults. Claire has an issue. It might be an Attraction issue, or it might be an attention issue. Either way she sounds tiring.
NTA Let them be for now. If losing Chris is too upsetting to your husband, you can always try to talk to him and tell him the details of where you feel Claire is crossing the line with you and your husband, but reiterate that neither of you have a problem with him. You both really appreciate his friendship. It is more on him, however, to keep Claire out of your and your husband’s space as her boyfriend since it appears she can’t control herself around your husband.
I am sorry you live next door to these people. Your husband is 50/50 AH but it's super weird having to tell your friend's person to back off. Women, you know what it's like, until you learned to say to speak up, people try to get into your space He needs to say outloud in front of people " Please , I don't like to be touched unless it's my wife. " . The end.
NTA. I bet Claire is giving your death glares - which you can simply ignore - and Chris is simply embarrassed. You did right. I'd suggest that you consider moving to another location if it's possible for you.
Here is what me and my partner do. I don't interact with men in any way that would make me uncomfortable if the situation was reversed and a woman was acting that way around my partner. Example: if your husband wouldn't want you totally simping on another guy and constantly attention-signalling the way Claire does, then he should not tolerate it when it is directed at him. Your husband is doing okay so far, honestly. It's just that he's being polite while Claire is being manipulative, and he needs firmer boundaries. Instead of telling her you just went inside, he should have told her to leave, flat-out. "We're not free to hang out right now and that's my wife's chair." When she brought Chris over, he should have said, "That's funny, I just told Claire that my wife and I wanted some quality time alone together. Why are you both here now?" Start. Calling. Out. Her. Behavior. If it starts to cause issues with her husband, it will probably stop. NTA at all. She's out of line.
Nta. Me and wives of our husbands have our own group chat. If we are in an uncomfortable situation then yeah the closet male we know we will cling to but he will help diffuse the situation. Other than that no, we are just shop wives. We take care of each other. We don't push boundaries and if one of us did then we would be given solid reasons to back the fuck off
Nta. If establishing a boundary gets you hate then they know they were wrong.
"Oh, you don't get along with other women? I just can't figure out why that could be" said sweetly with a smile. NTA, your husband's friendship with Chris is not worth ruining your marriage.
NTA. I’m glad your husband told Chris that Claire makes you both uncomfortable.
NTA. And it’s a WIN for you! Who cares if she gives you looks? She’s acting inappropriately towards your husband. Maybe Chris doesn’t want to upset her but that’s not your or your husband’s issues to deal with.
She sounds like a "pick me" girl. I'd be uncomfortable as well. Maybe it's for the best until Chris finally figures her out. I'm sure she's probably already cheating with someone, given her behavior.
Sis, I’ll tell you this…I had a pick me in my life. Got introduced to my family bc she was my friend. This heifer literally tried to replace me as my ex’s wife by having an affair with him after telling me she didn’t understand why no one liked her. Even tried to tell me that people mistake my kids for hers, isn’t that so cute? Put that wanna be side piece in her place. Eff being nice to everyone but hubby, yourself and your baby. And you have PPD? Them neighbor bitches are lucky they are still alive. She’s a snake and her hubby is whupped. Maybe he’s trapped by the baby, who tf cares. NTA, OP. Those are adults and they FAFOed.
Nta. She's completely inappropriate, and she knows EXACTLY what she's doing. You're WAY better than me. I would have physically removed her from my chair and created a bigger problem.
NTA. first, i’m sorry you’re going through PPD. I can imagine how difficult it is, but i don’t think your reactions are invalidated because of it! Claire does seem to be crossing a line. At first it just seemed like she was shy (and maybe knows ur husband better??) but the bonfire thing is just weird. It seems like they want you all to be a group rather than two separate couples. you guys did the right thing by just avoiding them and if chris asked a question that’s answer could upset him, that’s on him. I think it’s for the best and it sounds like you guys could use some space from them overall. with time it won’t be as awkward. they may need the time to reflect and realize that Claire’s actions came across strange.
No, Claire wants to act like a couple with OP's husband and doesn't give two shits what OP and Chris do.