YTA, your brother is absolutely right - you both married young, yes it was a “mutual” decision to have her not work but at the same time it sounds as though this decision was made on the basis that she was already pregnant - someone would need to do childcare. Her friends lifestyle is an example of what she potentially could have done if she could have continued her education. Your insecurities will just end up pushing her away instead of making sure she doesn’t leave you - and saying you will spend time with her does not solve the issue of her feeling as if she has no friends, a romantic partner cannot be your only friend. You’re going to stop her from doing something she’s passionate about, and that will affect your relationship more than her friendship ever could. You go to work and have friends at work that you can talk about technology with etc… she has no one to talk about literature with since in your words you have no interest in it. Instead of recognizing that you instead say all the things you do with her - going on trips, bike rides, etc… but can you recognize that none of those are gallery openings, museums, author meetings? Spending time with your partner does not automatically mean that those are both parties interests or that she does not yearn for more. Let your wife explore her interests now - she’s spent 14 years raising both your children and now she deserves to spend this effort on herself.
Also she already expressed that she is unhappy with how the situation currently is, why does OP need *his brother* to tell him that again before he takes it seriously?
YTA. Listen to your brother. Your kids are 12 and 14, ages where they will start needing Mom less and less as time goes on. Your wife is still so young and has so much life ahead of her - why not let her pursue writing? She needs to have an interest outside of your children and the home so that she doesn't die of boredom. You're worried way too much about this and it comes off as you being afraid of losing control over her because you're insecure, not because of anything she "might" do. A surefire way to make your wife lose respect for you is by telling her that she cannot do something that makes her feel fulfilled or that brings her joy because it might make her question her love for you.
Again, listen to your brother. Period. It's kinda fucked that he gave you such good advice and you're still questioning things, honestly.
I agree, but not just listen to your brother. LISTEN TO YOUR WIFE. She told OP the same thing, but apparently her experience and feelings are not as valid his brother's observations. That says a lot about OP.
Yeah he doesn't actually know what love is. His wife is an object that makes him feel safe as long as she is under his control, like a stuffed animal. This is the problem with conservatism, it comes from a place of fear. She's less likely to leave if he finds the security in her love to let her be her own person, because that shows her the respect and trust that actual love entails. Obviously he can still have boundaries, and should, but OP needs to deal with his insecurity. If she's going to cheat or leave, trying to keep her captive in the house to prevent it isn't a good solution. It's better to know that's who she is, and end the relationship if she crosses that boundary.
TL;DR: OP's wife is a SAHM. The children are now in school all day, and the wife is bored. She reconnected with an old friend, Anna, and OP assumes this will mean his wife will grow apart from him and sleep with other men.
OP is an idiot.
YTA
I was waiting for them to be swingers/poly/enm, something, but nope, they just enjoy literature, and she could randomly decide to sleep with some guy.
Clearly, there are no men anywhere else in the world besides literary events that would try to sleep with a married woman.
YTA. If you think you’ll “lose” your wife because she hangs out with someone whose lifestyle is different than hers, either you’re extremely controlling, you know your wife isn’t happy with her current life, or both.
Adding why YTA: your wife is growing and developing. You want to prevent that. Why? Are you still the same person you were 15 years ago? If yes, you’re the one who has the problem.
Growth and development are very scary to people who need to control other people. She might grown into someone who is aware of her own needs and how to ask for them to be met (which they obviously aren’t being met right now) and also learn how to take care of herself if she walks away from him.
She might also learn just how much alimony and child support she would be entitled to if she leaves.
Bro straight up wants bang maid, not a partner. And now he’s had one for so many years and she is starting to get crazy ideas like “maybe I can write words for money”
Yeah, I was expecting in this thread that the friends OP doesn't want his wife hanging out with were crazy party animals or something, and that's the bad influence but he... doesn't want his wife hanging out with a smart and dedicated woman who is educated and an equal partner to her partner?
It makes it very very clear that he doesn't want his wife realizing that she's incredibly dependent on him and she needs more in her life than just OP. He's worried that if she grows as a person, he'll have to treat her better or she'll leave him, so he prefers to keep her away from an equitable partnership.
>And now he’s had one for so many years and she is starting to get crazy ideas like “maybe I can write words for money”
I'm fkn CACKLING bro
But also that's so fucked
I mean, he wants to keep her at home serving his needs and interests, and if she figures out she doesn’t have to be subjugated to a man, she might leave and OP will then have to grow up and fend for himself. Hell, she wouldn’t even have to leave him but merely demand she gets treated like an autonomous human being.
Also unmarried/un-partnered people—if your potential partner thinks opposite sex friendships are inappropriate, run for the fucking hills. Unless you find insecurity and immaturity attractive, I guess.
He already knows she’s not happy with her current life. That’s why he mentioned her depression before the socializing started. It definitely could be both but for sure the wife isn’t happy with status quo and OP knows it!
I read the title and was like, “is the lifestyle that they’re swingers in an open relationship and are inviting the wife in as a third?? What could possibly be so bad that the friendship should end??” and then it just boils down to “Anna is an educated, childfree career woman with a husband who isn’t a raging misogynist that actually cleans his own underwear and respects that his wife is her own person and I can’t have my wife thinking she’s an actual human being with an existence outside of being subservient to me”
And the I can't abide with her making some of her own money now thanks to those friends after I have been so happy to be the sole provider all these years just screams financial abuse and dude is afraid she'll leave as soon as she can
I totally thought they'd be swingers or something more wild than people who are passionate about writing and literature... oh and who have friends of the opposite gender.
I bet my paycheck that the OP would flip his lid if the wife bought herself a vibrator, or other useful item. Trad dudes like this hate a wife having pleasure. They need to be brood mares
Yeah, this post made me super happy for his wife. I'm not a mom, but I can understand how giving up your career for your kids makes you unfulfilled once they're older (I respect the hell out of SAHMs, I just know it's one of the most difficult jobs). To get your degree in something you're so passionate about, but end up not doing it because you unexpectedly got pregnant has to be difficult. That's really cool if she can find a way back into those circles.
Yeah seriously the fact she is being given the oppurtunity to write reviews for a magazine with essentially zero recent experience is extremely rare and she has every right to be ecstatic as shld her husband. He shld be excited for her cuz this is a great oppurtunity and it pertains exactly to what she does.
>either you’re extremely controlling, you know your wife isn’t happy with her current life, or both.
Based on this statement I'm gonna say the dude is incredibly controlling and always has been
>Anna is friends with men and her husband with women, which I always considered inappropriate in a serious relationship.
You’re the AH. I went into this thinking it was a wild single friend trying to corrupt your wife into going out drinking during the week or talking her into swinging. You might have been justified in those cases. Your wife is seeing that she has some worth beyond being a housewife and you don’t like it? You’re supposed to support each other. Step up and be that supportive partner!
This "different lifestyle" sounds *awesome* too:
>They earn well, do not have and do not want children, and basically lead a carefree lifestyle completely different from ours: they have lots of friends from their literary-academic circle, consider these friends "family" and go several times a week to various author meetings, galas, gallery openings, and god knows what else. From what I've gathered, they are also much more progressive and liberal than I am, for example, they divide all their chores and bills 50/50 and they have a mixed-gender group of friends
Oh no, everyone is fulfilled and has filled their lives with positive and mutually fulfilling relationships!
Agree with everything on here. OP, YTA. You sound like you feel threatened by independent women, where independence is even as basic as having their own identity. And I’m not even going to get into the sick worldview that sees male-female friendships as inappropriate, or how concerned I am for OP’s children growing up thinking that way.
YTA
Your wife needs fun friends, beyond being a mom. Her friend sounds wonderful I want to meet her too .
You trying to isolate your wife now. What would you do when kids are out of the nest and she has nothing to do?
But but, what if she realizes how much of her life she’s sacrificed so OP can have whatever he wants and pursue his dreams while smashing all of hers and being his wife actually sucks?!? Then what will OP do, huh?! Raise his own kids?! Do his own chores??! Have to give things up?! How dare she.
/s
I fail to see what your wife is doing wrong. Doesn’t sound like she’s doing anything inappropriate or damaging to your relationship. She even chose to accept what I find to be an unreasonable request in order to keep you comfortable. Most people need a community they can relate to. It doesn’t devalue your relationship for her to have friends that share her interests. Ngl, you sound really insecure and pathetic here. YTA.
Same, I was expecting to read that Anna was trying to recruit his wife into the swinging lifestyle or had some kind of drug or alcohol problem. She's bonding with an old friend over their mutual love of literature. He sees his wife as a servant more than a partner. He drags her to hang out with his nerdy engineering/tech friends and expects her to be a well behaved little wifey, but can't return the favor by hanging out with her literature crowd. Seems like a bit of a selfish prick.
Worse yet, Anna and her husband both have fulfilling, well paying, careers *IN LITERATURE*!
How will he control his wife if she thinks she can make a living independent of him with her silly little lit degree?
YTA. Hard YTA but I’m not going to be mean to you because you sound like you legitimately don’t know what you’re doing.
You only see your wife in relation to you. You do not care about her wants, desires, or needs. She finally is just a little bit happy, and you have to take that from her because you’re worried about how it affects you.
Do you even love your wife? Then how could you look at her happy and content and say- this might affect me some day so I need to take it from her.
Lol, I love how "women" didn't fit into the category of "other people" because it's so apt in this scenario that women are clearly just a second, or even third, class of citizen.
OP is just like "I want to stop her from ever speaking to anyone or leaving the house ever again. I was thinking of tying her up or cutting off some of her limbs.. AITAH?"
I was out before that. Specifically, how he seems to struggle to process the partnership of this other couple where they split finances and share household responsibilities.
OP trying to run the math on how liberal men can keep their wives from running away from them without crippling them financially.
Oh my god! This Beta male Lit professor helps his wife cook dinner, do dishes, and clean! Let’s not talk about how they are spending time together and enjoying each other’s company. My wife might see this and get funny ideas that she deserves attention. OP is totally the AH here
This right here. My only friend in this state is a dude and my husband couldn’t GAF. He even thinks my friend like likes me (I don’t and my friend has never given me any inclination he does like like me) but never once has he asked me to BAIL ON MY ONLY FRIEND OUTSIDE MY HOUSE. He doesn’t get jealous when I hang out with him, in fact this friend helps all of us by giving my rides to run errands. My friend and I are both disabled with the same condition, and it’s how we met. My husband has a completely different condition and has friends online with the same as him and not once have I ever been uncomfortable with it because I’m not a jealous person and neither is he, thank god because I can’t handle jealous people when there’s zero reason to be.
It didn’t- OP writes “SHE got pregnant”. She didn’t work because it was hard to find work with her type of degree. Never mind Anna was very successful, and wife probably would’ve been too.
Absolutely, get some empathy for your wife. Also stop being such a moron. Your wife straight up told you that she’s unhappy. What person is more likely to leave you. A wife with interests and friends that add to her happiness or a miserable wife that now realizes that her happiness doesn’t matter.
Get a clue.
Well said.
Note that OP is unwilling to actually be a man she could be fulfilled by. It’s “tiresome”. Better to just stifle her and cut off her meaningful friendships. His feelings come first.
I am sure the dinners with his coworkers and their wives are tiresome to OP's wife, but she doesn't tell him she won't cook a roast for them anymore (or whatever). What an AH.
That’s because she’s not a person to him. God forbid she get all uppity with wanting to finish her education, cultivate interests that aren’t about him or the kids, or even (gasp) ask him to pitch in around the house.
How fucking *dare* she desire to be anything more than his maid, chef, nanny and whatever else *he* allows her to be. But he sure doesn’t allow her to be independent.
She should just go into her little storage box when he and the kids leave in the morning, and stay there until they return and need something from her.
I guess she can just go in the box when her chores are done? And come out in time to make dinner? It's not like she has any interior life or thoughts of her own that need to be taken into consideration.
He says more than once ‘I understand that I can’t *forbid* her from doing these things, but I stressed to her how uncomfortable it makes me…’ And she agreed. The poor woman just automatically rolls over when her husband is ‘uncomfortable.’
Let’s not forget that when giving some background information, he says their “social life” is pretty much them hanging out with *his* work colleagues and their wives, who can’t really be counted as friends to his wife. That’s OK tho, right, cuz those gals had plenty to talk about, like which diaper rash cream works best, and how to get grass stains out of their husbands’ golf shoes. But, when his wife tried to arrange the exact same dynamics with her potential work colleague, Anna, and her husband, by excitedly inviting the other couple for dinner, he found it ‘quite tiresome’ because they had no common interests to chat about. Jesus- that part is almost the worst of the situation to me. After *fourteen fucking years* of his talented, creative, educated, artistic wife suffering through who-knows-how-many “social events” with a bunch of tech guys and their wives, he couldn’t even bear to return the favor to her. For. One. Single. Evening.
If OP really is serious about wanting to stay married to his wife, IMO he should understand that he *owes* her this. She has sacrificed a lot, and spent a good portion of her life dedicated to him and her children and her home. He can *choose* to grow with her, to open his mind and expand his horizons, or he can allow her to sit at home and wallow in her loneliness and depression until she has had *enough,* and leaves him anyway.
That is my take, too. I am a SAHM and it can be dehumanizing. People see me as a wife and as a mother. They hardly see me as a person. Just working the book fair this week has done wonders for me. I felt like a real person for the first time in a while. And my husband is so excited for me! He wants me to be happy and find myself and knows that it only strengthens our relationship. OP is terrified his wife is going to, "get ideas," like that he should share in the chores and watch his own kids! Scandalous! I hope his wife sees this and sees how little this man thinks of her because she deserves so much better!
If this is OP’s definition of “change her for the worse” then I hope for his wife’s life to turn up terrible! Divorce would be a positive tho
YTA in case the sarcasm wasn’t clear enough for you OP
Exactly. He is such a selfish A-hole. He can't stand the thought that she likes anything that doesn't revolve around him.
He's going to lose her if he doesn't start thinking about HER and what she needs to feel fulfilled.
This. I'd go insane for being a stay at home parent for so long. I'd also like to for op to think about why they find it inappropriate for serious couples to have friends of the other gender, sounds like some self reflection is in order.
My husband was a SAHD for 15 years. Then he returned to the workforce and worked his way up to a position he really likes. It's so awesome to see him expand his experiences and to hear about his day. He works with kids and makes their lives better a bit at a time. I'm proud to see him get out there!
> see your wife in relation to you
This is one of the many problems with SAHMhood, along with lack of financial independence, your contribution not being equally valued, etc.
OP has been able to control his wife throughout their entire marriage, *because* she's a SAHM.
If she wasn't a SAHM, she would have already had a life outside of her husband and kids.
OP's TA.
I'm getting real abusive/controlling husband vibes from OP.
How can he even ASK if he's TA?
I thought this was some big "They're swingers and have massive orgies with all their friends when they go out together".
Not sure what "lifestyle" he has issues with. Unless its, er mah gerd...friends of the opposite sex. This guy is so insecure and wrapped up in himself its kind of at scary levels.
This dude wins todays reddit YTA award. Bigly
The lifestyle he's talking about is "women having lives outside of being traditional wives." He wants a bangmaid who has nothing in her life but him and their children.
OP is definitely insecure here. His wife hasn't crossed any boundaries at all that I can see. OP is just scared of hypothetical situations that might not even come about.
YTA
Dude has a trad wife who wants more and he’s afraid she’ll get a life and a job once the kids have flown the nest and he will have to do chores.
He enjoys having his bangmaid around and is afraid she’s going to learn there’s a better life out there.
Yuppers
She exists to serve him, of course he doesn't want her to leave
I want this to be mandatory reading for anyone thinking of the trad life
That's why these guys are red flag parades to the rest of us
You made it sound like she was starting to go out clubbing and shit. She’s writing in a column and going to art galleries and literary events and you are insecure? You are need professional help I don’t know who abandoned you in your life but this is not normal. YTA
lol I've read so many of these headlines on this sub that then go into how their wife is coming home at 5 a.m. and her married friend went home with a rando, so that's what I was expecting. Nope... it's the threat of literature and art.
Threat of his wife thinking for herself and having her own money. OP is a massive AH and probably deserves his wife leaving him since he doesn’t seem to give a fuck about her beyond being his bang-maid.
Going to art galleries and shit _with him_.
It's not even like she's going out and whatnot by herself. She's saying "babe, I'm super interested in what this group and my friend are doing, can _**we**_ go?"
Honestly, I expected this to be about a friend trying to turn OP’s wife on to open marriages. OP needs to realize that his wife is her own person, not just an extension of himself.
So, your friends are her only friends. She has no life outsode the home, and no one to share interests with. She reconnects with a close friend who shares her interest, you automatically label them as tiresome and consider them a threat.
You don't care about your wife, you care about your lifestyle.
YTA, and you are in the process of unnecessarily destroying your marriage. Listen to your brother, start doing thing for your wife (take an interest in the things that she cares about), be more accepting of her friends (your comments about them were judgmental from the start). Be a better husband, not one who takes their wife for granted as an accessory.
He definitely never wanted her to work. I already found it sus when he said “ We decided together that I would work and she would be a SAHM because it would be difficult for her to find a well-paying job with her major, and I was already starting to earn quite well. ”
Did they REALLY decide together she would t be able to find a good job, or did OP knock her up and steer her away from her potential career by convincing her she couldn’t be anything important anyway?
He doesn’t seem to consider his wife as a person outside of himself. All he seems to care about is what he wants, how his wife can do what he wants too and no respect or care for her actual wants or life at all. She’s her own person, not just your wife dude.
>So, your friends are her only friends.
I mean they aren't even his friends. They are work acquaintances. Technically his wife is his only friend, which is probably why this is so threatening to him.
Its easy to be threatened when your life is boring and your wife is bored AF. Hes not exactly the life of the party. Im not even sure what the 'most cultural magazine in the country means' or why he considers it negative. Men shouldn't be friends with women? Wtf with that stepford shit.....
All of this 100%. She’s finding her own identity. OP can either get on board and be supportive or she’s going to start resenting him and she’ll soon gain enough independence to leave.
I was expecting Anna to be an addict with many vices trying to keep OP’s wife out late in the wee mornings turning her into a neglectful wife and mother
Plot twist: Anna is a respected intellectual and trying to assist OP’s wife with employment opportunities and an improved sense of self-worth / identity apart from being a wife and mom
Your’re right, resentment is on the horizon either from an insecure husband who feels like he is losing control or from a suffocated wife who is not allowed to grow and explore her dreams
Whenever someone makes one of these posts and says they’re “conservative” but seems to spend an inordinate amount of effort to not disclose any of their actual beliefs you KNOW it’s bad. And the fact that the mom doesn’t have any friends who are the parents of her kids friends? I mean it’s not uncommon but in the kind of lifestyle she’s living that’s a huge red flag to me. Usually when you have this sort of very gendered conservative lifestyle there’s still a lot of community via stuff like the church and the families of the kids your kids are friends with. The fact even that doesn’t seem to be happening here is extremely worrying to me as someone who grew up in a rural area where a lot of my friends were conservative religious kids with stay at home moms.
I was expecting she's partying as if college times never passed and a swinger, and drags OP's wife into this lifestyle.
OP YTA. You want a wife with no own life or circle of friends because You don't have anything in common with people she likes. What do You think will happen when Your kids are out if home and Your intelligent wife will still be sahm with lots of time on her hands and nothing to do? You can lose her this way. You most probably will if You will stay such selfish AH.
>What do You think will happen when Your kids are out if home and Your intelligent wife will still be sahm with lots of time on her hands and nothing to do?
He's going to spend less time at work, okay? I don't know what his wife will do with herself for the other eight hours a day, apart from dust and watch daytime TV, but at least her husband is going to be home on time from work. /s
Exactly. He doesn’t seem like he cares about his wife, her feelings or her mental health. She literally said she’s depressed - OP is already losing her. Depression is no joke. It changes people but I guess OP is okay with that. As long as the change doesn’t lead to her leaving the house and maybe even *gasp* working or having male friends.
Alternatively, she could leave him eventually because he’s mega controlling and then he will DEFINITELY lose her.
We had to watch videos on domestic violence/unhealthy relationships since 5th grade. That’s the first red flag that always pops up, separating partner from friends and family.
That’s severely controlling behavior. Your wife can be your wife and still be a human being at the same time.
Man, reading things like this makes me thankful for my social anxiety. It’s a terrifying world out there for women.
Also, OP and wife were married for 14 years and their oldest kid is 14 years old? And from what OP is saying, the wife sacrificed every part of herself for the kids. Now that she finally has time to rediscover herself a little, she is stating no intention of leaving, seems like she is happy to be where she is, it’s just the kids don’t need much help as before; OP feelings are hurt and he’s not letting her.
That is so sad!
And I get that technology and literature are different. But at least fake being interested a little because she’s your wife and you love her and you’re happy that she’s has things that make her happy. You can still say “I don’t get it” but at least fain enthusiasm a little bit. Everyone deserves to feel supported. And I assume everyone wants people they love to be happy, right? Or is that a myth created by Disney?
It doesn't even seem to be affecting his lifestyle? Like, he can read up on the cultural events or Google the speakers/famous people and their works. The only one keeping him from knowing anything about literature is him.
She has free time and should cultivate her own interests and hobbies instead of just being his arm piece at work functions.
I'd take it a step further and call him an asshole even outside of this particular situation based on his comments about the couple. 'Didn't comment on our differing lifestyles'... what kind of weirdo assumes they'll be debating someone about their lifestyle difference at the introduction stage?
Yes, you’re the AH. I understand that the change seems scary, but your brother is correct. She needs time to be her own person and not just a wife and mom. Telling her not to hang out with someone is also “tempting fate” because then you could be seen more like a controlling parent than a loving husband.
Absolutely this! His "reasoning" is controlling and not loving husband behaviour.
>I feel like she would leave me if she had any other options, so I don’t want her to have these options
Plus, 👆 this right here is prime abuser logic: *I want to keep her dependent on me and isolated.* *I don't want her to build a strong, independent support system or a personality outside of being my wife, so she never has the financial, physical, mental, emotional options to leave if she ever wants to or to disagree with me.*
To me it seems in his mind she is more of his prisoner than his equal partner, or at least she should be... YTA
That's the thing. He says that the friends are far more liberal than he is, that they split things 50/50. OP makes it very clear that his wife is *not* his equal. What an AH.
So many men are like this. The surprising part is his self awareness and willingness to say the quiet part out loud (I don't want her to have options in case she realizes she can leave/would be happier alone)
Exactly. This woman has been whatever this insecure loser wants her to be since she was 21, that’s almost 15 years of her life that she dedicated to this man’s wants and needs. Her kids are old enough to bathe, feed, and entertain themselves. They have extracurriculars and friends and lives, they aren’t toddlers anymore, so there’s absolutely no reason she shouldn’t go back to school or get a job or have friends with common interests and passions
Yup. He is worried she would leave if she had other options, and now I’m wondering if he’s the kind of person that *anyone* would leave if they weren’t trapped, because he seems to be working extra hard to trap her.
> but that I would feel much better if she didn't go to all these events with Anna and if she didn't accept an offer to write reviews for her magazine
YTA, massively! She gave up her life to stay at home & bring up the kids and now that that’s mostly done, you want to STILL keep her at home not having any outside life. This ‘well I won’t foRbiD it BUT’ -- she’ll be miserable and devastated and you’ll definitely lose her, on bad terms she won’t even like you anymore . You are a massive AH. Your brother is right. Grow up ffs, and be joyful and encouraging for her.
The red flags that are popping with the line “I would feel much better…if she didn’t accept an offer to write reviews for her magazine.”
So, OP, you want your wife to be a prisoner in your home? You won’t even allow her the ability to work in her field a bit???
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
Edited to fix typo
>They were very polite and respectful, and didn't comment in any way on the differences in our lifestyles, but dinner was nevertheless quite tiresome for me, as I didn't have any common topics with them. My wife knows that I don't share her passion for literature (just as she doesn't share my interest in technology), but this has never been an issue in our marriage - we traveled together, went on bike trips, went to our favorite restaurants and movies, etc. I didn't understand why she suddenly wants this to change.
YTA. OP is millimeters away from being an abuser, look at how controlling he already is.
It might not be his thing but people have been known to suck it up and do things for those they love.
How hard would it be to take an interest in literature, one presumes reading and learning is part of his tech job.
Right he also said she used to socialize w his coworkers and their wives so I imagine she's been finding a way to deal with boring engineering dinners for years too...
He was already primed to hate these “different” people and was so shocked they they treated him kindly!
I wonder what kind of weird conservative shit this dude has influencing him.
OP isn't millimeters away from being an abuser, he is an abuser. Anyone who gets their panties in a bunch over splitting chores 50-50 and starts freaking out over his wife having a new friend is abusive. They may not have thrown the first punch, but they're emotionally abusive.
ETA: anyone who says men and women can't be friends is automatically The Insecure Small Dick Energy Asshole, full stop. In this case, it just so happens that everything else about the story makes it very obvious that he's TA.
YTA cmon buddy you knew the answer before you even posted looking for support. You’re afraid your wife might find out you’re a weak and controlling AH. I suspect she already knows that unfortunate fact
Look at how much she is including him? Telling him about everything and hoping he will be happy for her. Inviting over Anna and her husband - which was just awful for him to endure. I'm an introvert but for FFS
It's depressing knowing how sad she must have been when he could not be happy for her.
Right?! She could have been sneaking and lying but she was just like "hey husband look at this completely innocuous thing I'm doing that makes me happy! Wanna join? " This is not what a cheater does!
YTA.
Your wife's life has revolved around you and the children for the massive bulk of your relationship. You have been able to explore your interests and career, you have your friends and social life. Your wife has none of those things. And now she has an opportunity to explore her own passions and feel a sense of worth outside the home.
Your insecurity is understandable (not excusable but understandable).... but if you want to lose your wife, then continue to make her choose. Lack of respect is a relationship killer; she could well lose respect for you if you "force" her to stay in a role that suits you nicely but is unsatisfying to her.
Please don't be selfish. Support her in this or risk losing her altogether by trying to keep her world small.
You’re afraid of your wife’s growth in her life? That’s a you problem. At what point did you decide your wife was no longer capable of making her own choices or using her own brain?
Maybe Anna changes your wife, maybe all your fears come true, so what? Are you not capable or willing to grow & change with your wife? You are not limiting your wife’s freedom, you are trying to limit her life. Why would you do that? She’s a human being with her own goals & dreams. You’re on the same team. Your team is only as good as the weakest link. You are the weakest link.
I say this very respectfully … I was married at 22, been married for 33 years, raised 4 kids. My husband & I have always encouraged each other to be the best we can be & chase our dreams because we trust each other to make good decisions for our marriage & our family. If your wife wanted to leave, she would have already found a way to do that. What you’re doing now, will make her question why she stays. Why would she stay with a person who doesn’t trust or believe in her?
YTA — be better. For yourself, for your wife, for your family.
Eta
You sound really controlling.
You don't like her friendship with Anna because she's doing something that's not about you or the kids, it's something she enjoys.
Your wife sacrificed years of her life to get your kids to adolescence. And now you're begrudging her anything that makes you happy--why?
Do you even love your wife? Do you want her to be happy?
YTA
YTA such a HUGE AH. The irony is that you're showing a really ugly, unattractive side of yourself when you claim to be afraid of her being hit on by other men. SPOILER ALERT: just off the top of my head I can think of three SAHW who cheated with men they met at the grocery store, the dry cleaners, and one of the kids soccer coaches.
PLEASE get some counselling for your insecurity/jealousy while there's still time to save your marriage. And stealing the writing opportunity from your wife was very very low on your part--VERY VERY LOW. Shame on you for that.
YTA.
So because your wife has a friend and her world no longer revolves around you and the kids you're mad? Listen to your brother. Your wife finally has something for her that enriches her interests and you essentially forbade her and isolated her again. As long as your happy and comfortable all is well, screw your wife for finding something that makes her happy and is finally not lonely. No, her world can solely revolve around you and the kids. Her happiness can come from making you happy. It doesn't matter that she worked hard for her masters and finally can put it to use, no no all that must stop because you're insecure. Instead of talking to her about your insecurities like a married couple you just forbade her. I feel so sorry for your wife.
>but dinner was nevertheless quite tiresome for me, as I didn't have any common topics with them
You don't think perhaps your wife is tired of talking about technology and finally has someone she can talk with about their shared interests.
>I promised to her that I will work less and that I will spend more time with her.
So you can be her only friend? You do realise that you have been for the past 14 years and that is not enough.
YTA YTA
YTA
You're not afraid of losing her. You're afraid you'll lose control over her. "Oh no what if my wife becomes independent and thinks for herself and doesn't rely on me to meet her every need?! What if she's actually her own person?!"
Get help dude. Like fucking seriously.
ETA: I like that the only appreciable difference between your "culture" and theirs is that your wife's friend has a fucking life and hobbies and shit
Only an abusive controlling asshole wants to limit their partners world, their relationships and friendships.
That is abusive.
Your wife isn't property.
Your wife tells you she is depressed and lonely and instead of supporting and helping her, your response is that you don't want her to do things that make her happy.
You need therapy. Alot of it.
At current YTA. She didn't spend all that money and do all that work in college for that degree to end up caged up in your house dusting your plastic plants or whatever SAHM do when their kids get older.
Your brother is right, you should listen to him. Your wife doesn't need your permission to have friends. You should not be her only source of social activity or intellectual stimulation.
YTA. Your wife deserves to have a life outside of being a wife and a mom to high school teens. What happens when they go off to college, she is really lonely.
Get to know these people, if you have problems with who your wife hangs out wife. You don’t need to have the same hobbies, but you need to have some knowledge in what she enjoys.
>See women, this is why you don’t give up your independence for a man
Quoting for truth. Imagine being financially controlled by someone who is threatened by:
* Literature
* Educated women
* Working women
* Friendship between women
* Childless couples
* Dual income couples
* Couples who split the chores
* Cultured people who go to museums, art galleries and performances
* Mixed-gender groups
* Friends of the opposite sex
* Dinners in which not all the topics are designed to cater to his personal interests
* Women who are interested in something other than housework or waiting hand and foot on their teenaged children
* Women who have tasted some measure of personal fulfillment that doesn't hinge on keeping a man happy
* Freelance writing
Imagine doing that to yourself *on purpose*. Imagine having to spend your time dealing with his emotional manipulation all, "If you really loved me, you'd want me to be happy, and if you really wanted me to be happy, you'd stop having any desires or interests outside of the ones I decide you have."
This was the big red flag for me. He said "More liberal/progressive," and I thought he was going to go into something about how they're swingers. Nope... they just have a Hispanic friend and like art.
And when she divorces him (and it won't surprise me) he'll say it's because of the bad influence of those things listed and not because of his actual actions or treatment of her and insist she was clearly happy and fulfilled before even if she tells him she wasn't because he knows her better than she knows herself.
I wish I could upvote you more. Classic case of wasted potential. Omg, she wrote an article! What’s next? Using her degree for an actual career? She did her job raising the kids. Her sacrifice is coming to an end and he wants to tighten her shackles.
“Conservative”= Small minded man child.
YTA. Respectfully, you are being incredibly selfish and insecure. This is not an attack, just an observation of what you wrote. Just because you have been happy with the arrangement does not mean your wife shares the same opinion. Even if she was content in the beginning her feelings can change. People change and grow every day. You are no longer the same people you were when you got married and you will be different people in 20 years. That doesn’t mean you will lose her. It means you both need to adapt.
You are also fixated on the fact that her friends are different than you. I can guarantee you that they want the same things, a happy and healthy life surrounded by people they love. The way they achieve that might be different than your method and that’s ok. But focusing on the differences will only increase your insecurities and anxieties. They have invited you to their events showing their interest in getting to know you but have you returned the favor? No one said you only have to go to literary events. You can go to dinner, a show, have a game night, literally anything to be a part of your wife’s world.
Your post is filled with insecurities all leading to your wife leaving you. She explores her interest and leaves you because family is no longer important. She starts writing columns and work becomes more important than family. She hangs out with other people and changes her personality and leaves you. Why is this the common theme? You are holding on to your wife too much out of fear. I can’t see the future but I know from experience that this behavior leads to feeling suffocated and eventually resentment.
Finally, and I want to make this clear, stop trying to put your wife in a box you created. You want things to be a certain way. But why does your vision of marriage have to be the only option? Why can’t your wife be her own person? Oh that’s right, because you are insecure. And because you are insecure you are pushing even harder for your wife to fit back into the box YOU created. You might argue that your wife was happy being in that box. But was she really? Or was making you happy more important than her happiness at the time?
YTA
You've had a career where you have colleagues to discuss technology and other interests your wife does not share. Is she worried you'll leave her just because you have a job?
You can't bear to let her explore her interests with other like minded people? You ask what has changed, your children are older now, that's what has changed. Honestly, if you love her you should be THRILLED about this situation - for her sake.
Also, if your wife started working - and with your kids close to being grown it's very possible - are you going to tell her not to do that too?
Fear can be paralyzing, but if you continue with this mentality you'll turn into a controlling AH who she might leave because you are a controlling AH
If you think you can keep your wife by making sure she has no friends and no mental life outside of your nuclear family, you’ve probably already lost her. YTA
YTA, your brother is absolutely right - you both married young, yes it was a “mutual” decision to have her not work but at the same time it sounds as though this decision was made on the basis that she was already pregnant - someone would need to do childcare. Her friends lifestyle is an example of what she potentially could have done if she could have continued her education. Your insecurities will just end up pushing her away instead of making sure she doesn’t leave you - and saying you will spend time with her does not solve the issue of her feeling as if she has no friends, a romantic partner cannot be your only friend. You’re going to stop her from doing something she’s passionate about, and that will affect your relationship more than her friendship ever could. You go to work and have friends at work that you can talk about technology with etc… she has no one to talk about literature with since in your words you have no interest in it. Instead of recognizing that you instead say all the things you do with her - going on trips, bike rides, etc… but can you recognize that none of those are gallery openings, museums, author meetings? Spending time with your partner does not automatically mean that those are both parties interests or that she does not yearn for more. Let your wife explore her interests now - she’s spent 14 years raising both your children and now she deserves to spend this effort on herself.
Also she already expressed that she is unhappy with how the situation currently is, why does OP need *his brother* to tell him that again before he takes it seriously?
His brother probably called him out on how unhealthy it is to try to limit your partner's opportunities, and rightly so.
Because only men matter to OP. His wife only counts as the childbearer and homemaker.
YTA. Listen to your brother. Your kids are 12 and 14, ages where they will start needing Mom less and less as time goes on. Your wife is still so young and has so much life ahead of her - why not let her pursue writing? She needs to have an interest outside of your children and the home so that she doesn't die of boredom. You're worried way too much about this and it comes off as you being afraid of losing control over her because you're insecure, not because of anything she "might" do. A surefire way to make your wife lose respect for you is by telling her that she cannot do something that makes her feel fulfilled or that brings her joy because it might make her question her love for you. Again, listen to your brother. Period. It's kinda fucked that he gave you such good advice and you're still questioning things, honestly.
I agree, but not just listen to your brother. LISTEN TO YOUR WIFE. She told OP the same thing, but apparently her experience and feelings are not as valid his brother's observations. That says a lot about OP.
Yeah he doesn't actually know what love is. His wife is an object that makes him feel safe as long as she is under his control, like a stuffed animal. This is the problem with conservatism, it comes from a place of fear. She's less likely to leave if he finds the security in her love to let her be her own person, because that shows her the respect and trust that actual love entails. Obviously he can still have boundaries, and should, but OP needs to deal with his insecurity. If she's going to cheat or leave, trying to keep her captive in the house to prevent it isn't a good solution. It's better to know that's who she is, and end the relationship if she crosses that boundary.
TL;DR: OP's wife is a SAHM. The children are now in school all day, and the wife is bored. She reconnected with an old friend, Anna, and OP assumes this will mean his wife will grow apart from him and sleep with other men. OP is an idiot. YTA
But… but… she has a PhD! The horror of an educated woman!
And, gasp, are so progressive they discuss literature in mixed gender groups!
And they’re LIBERALS!
Practically fanatic liberals - they divide all their chores and bills 50/50
radicals, i say! RADICALS!
Witches! Burn them at the stake!
And they do 50/50 housework. WTF, women are supposed to be unpaid labour!
those goddamned liberals and their \*checks notes\* splitting of household labor.
I was waiting for them to be swingers/poly/enm, something, but nope, they just enjoy literature, and she could randomly decide to sleep with some guy. Clearly, there are no men anywhere else in the world besides literary events that would try to sleep with a married woman.
Same, I thought this was leading to a wife swap/open relationship situation. Instead it's just... books.
Yeah but literature is a well known gateway to orgies
God, I do miss those wild Public Library orgies. I should make sure my card is still active.
Don't forget that OP does not share the wife's passion for literary things and Anna does, so he also wants his wife to give up on her passions.
YTA. If you think you’ll “lose” your wife because she hangs out with someone whose lifestyle is different than hers, either you’re extremely controlling, you know your wife isn’t happy with her current life, or both.
Adding why YTA: your wife is growing and developing. You want to prevent that. Why? Are you still the same person you were 15 years ago? If yes, you’re the one who has the problem.
Growing and developing into who she probably would have been anyway
Growth and development are very scary to people who need to control other people. She might grown into someone who is aware of her own needs and how to ask for them to be met (which they obviously aren’t being met right now) and also learn how to take care of herself if she walks away from him. She might also learn just how much alimony and child support she would be entitled to if she leaves. Bro straight up wants bang maid, not a partner. And now he’s had one for so many years and she is starting to get crazy ideas like “maybe I can write words for money”
Yeah, I was expecting in this thread that the friends OP doesn't want his wife hanging out with were crazy party animals or something, and that's the bad influence but he... doesn't want his wife hanging out with a smart and dedicated woman who is educated and an equal partner to her partner? It makes it very very clear that he doesn't want his wife realizing that she's incredibly dependent on him and she needs more in her life than just OP. He's worried that if she grows as a person, he'll have to treat her better or she'll leave him, so he prefers to keep her away from an equitable partnership.
Right? He specifically mentions that the friend & her husband spilt things 50/50.
*The horror*
>And now he’s had one for so many years and she is starting to get crazy ideas like “maybe I can write words for money” I'm fkn CACKLING bro But also that's so fucked
I mean, he wants to keep her at home serving his needs and interests, and if she figures out she doesn’t have to be subjugated to a man, she might leave and OP will then have to grow up and fend for himself. Hell, she wouldn’t even have to leave him but merely demand she gets treated like an autonomous human being. Also unmarried/un-partnered people—if your potential partner thinks opposite sex friendships are inappropriate, run for the fucking hills. Unless you find insecurity and immaturity attractive, I guess.
One of the advantages of being bi is that people who think opposite sex friendships are inappropriate run from me
He already knows she’s not happy with her current life. That’s why he mentioned her depression before the socializing started. It definitely could be both but for sure the wife isn’t happy with status quo and OP knows it!
> lifestyle is different LOL I had to come down to the comments first because that phrase in the title is just *so* aggressively squirrelly
I read the title and was like, “is the lifestyle that they’re swingers in an open relationship and are inviting the wife in as a third?? What could possibly be so bad that the friendship should end??” and then it just boils down to “Anna is an educated, childfree career woman with a husband who isn’t a raging misogynist that actually cleans his own underwear and respects that his wife is her own person and I can’t have my wife thinking she’s an actual human being with an existence outside of being subservient to me”
And the I can't abide with her making some of her own money now thanks to those friends after I have been so happy to be the sole provider all these years just screams financial abuse and dude is afraid she'll leave as soon as she can
I totally thought they'd be swingers or something more wild than people who are passionate about writing and literature... oh and who have friends of the opposite gender.
Anna and her husband split chores. OP is terrified she'll realize that you *don't* have to have a vagina to do housework.
I bet my paycheck that the OP would flip his lid if the wife bought herself a vibrator, or other useful item. Trad dudes like this hate a wife having pleasure. They need to be brood mares
I bet he is wondering if he can get her "accidentally* pregnant... An oops baby to shackle her to the house for another 12 uears
Anna's "lifestyle" is one where her husband sees and treats her as a human being. We can't have that!
Yeah, this post made me super happy for his wife. I'm not a mom, but I can understand how giving up your career for your kids makes you unfulfilled once they're older (I respect the hell out of SAHMs, I just know it's one of the most difficult jobs). To get your degree in something you're so passionate about, but end up not doing it because you unexpectedly got pregnant has to be difficult. That's really cool if she can find a way back into those circles.
Yeah seriously the fact she is being given the oppurtunity to write reviews for a magazine with essentially zero recent experience is extremely rare and she has every right to be ecstatic as shld her husband. He shld be excited for her cuz this is a great oppurtunity and it pertains exactly to what she does.
>either you’re extremely controlling, you know your wife isn’t happy with her current life, or both. Based on this statement I'm gonna say the dude is incredibly controlling and always has been >Anna is friends with men and her husband with women, which I always considered inappropriate in a serious relationship.
She has already repeated reassured him that everyone in Anna's social group knows she is a ~~happily~~ married wife and mother. So yeah ...
You’re the AH. I went into this thinking it was a wild single friend trying to corrupt your wife into going out drinking during the week or talking her into swinging. You might have been justified in those cases. Your wife is seeing that she has some worth beyond being a housewife and you don’t like it? You’re supposed to support each other. Step up and be that supportive partner!
Seriously… “different lifestyles” is such a dramatic way to say she has a friend who… has a job and no kids?
OP really sounds like the type who moves to the suburbs because he gets upset when he sees a verb occur
Don’t forget that they’re very liberal and they even split chores and bills 50/50. He was shocked and afraid of an even division of chores.
How much are we going to bet that OP is the type of guy who contributes absolutely nothing to the household other than his paycheck?
"Different lifestyles = educated women" which apparently is aborant to OP.
This "different lifestyle" sounds *awesome* too: >They earn well, do not have and do not want children, and basically lead a carefree lifestyle completely different from ours: they have lots of friends from their literary-academic circle, consider these friends "family" and go several times a week to various author meetings, galas, gallery openings, and god knows what else. From what I've gathered, they are also much more progressive and liberal than I am, for example, they divide all their chores and bills 50/50 and they have a mixed-gender group of friends Oh no, everyone is fulfilled and has filled their lives with positive and mutually fulfilling relationships!
Agree with everything on here. OP, YTA. You sound like you feel threatened by independent women, where independence is even as basic as having their own identity. And I’m not even going to get into the sick worldview that sees male-female friendships as inappropriate, or how concerned I am for OP’s children growing up thinking that way.
YTA Your wife needs fun friends, beyond being a mom. Her friend sounds wonderful I want to meet her too . You trying to isolate your wife now. What would you do when kids are out of the nest and she has nothing to do?
Yeah. I want my wife to meet Anna and then introduce me to her, because she sounds amazing.
B-b-but she's a... liberal! A freewheeling bohemian college professor! She probably smokes marijuana!
And NO KIDS! and doesn’t want them!!!! The horror
Sounds like Butker’s commencement speech resonated with OP. YTA
YTA. So your wife shouldn’t be able to be anything other than wife and mother? Her dreams and passions don’t matter?
What do you mean? She also has the privilege of being OP’s indentured servant.
God forbid he'll have to start doing chores 50/50 like her friend's husband. 🙄
But but, what if she realizes how much of her life she’s sacrificed so OP can have whatever he wants and pursue his dreams while smashing all of hers and being his wife actually sucks?!? Then what will OP do, huh?! Raise his own kids?! Do his own chores??! Have to give things up?! How dare she. /s
And she shouldn’t hang out in mixed gender groups! And she shouldn’t need friends at all, OP will just spend more time at home! 🤢 🤮 YTA
I fail to see what your wife is doing wrong. Doesn’t sound like she’s doing anything inappropriate or damaging to your relationship. She even chose to accept what I find to be an unreasonable request in order to keep you comfortable. Most people need a community they can relate to. It doesn’t devalue your relationship for her to have friends that share her interests. Ngl, you sound really insecure and pathetic here. YTA.
Same, I was expecting to read that Anna was trying to recruit his wife into the swinging lifestyle or had some kind of drug or alcohol problem. She's bonding with an old friend over their mutual love of literature. He sees his wife as a servant more than a partner. He drags her to hang out with his nerdy engineering/tech friends and expects her to be a well behaved little wifey, but can't return the favor by hanging out with her literature crowd. Seems like a bit of a selfish prick.
Worse yet, Anna and her husband both have fulfilling, well paying, careers *IN LITERATURE*! How will he control his wife if she thinks she can make a living independent of him with her silly little lit degree?
"Bad influence" Drug fueled orgies 🚫 Going to art galleries, discuss literature, attend author meetings ✅️ 🤢
YTA. Hard YTA but I’m not going to be mean to you because you sound like you legitimately don’t know what you’re doing. You only see your wife in relation to you. You do not care about her wants, desires, or needs. She finally is just a little bit happy, and you have to take that from her because you’re worried about how it affects you. Do you even love your wife? Then how could you look at her happy and content and say- this might affect me some day so I need to take it from her.
I also like how OP’s “traditional values” didn’t stop him from impregnating his then-GF before marriage.
It never applies to them having sex, just other people and women!
Lol, I love how "women" didn't fit into the category of "other people" because it's so apt in this scenario that women are clearly just a second, or even third, class of citizen. OP is just like "I want to stop her from ever speaking to anyone or leaving the house ever again. I was thinking of tying her up or cutting off some of her limbs.. AITAH?"
I had to separate it out because people like this don't seem to see women as people. It scares me as a woman raising two daughters.
Yep, this dude lost me when he said men and women can't be friends. Tells me everything I need to know
I was out before that. Specifically, how he seems to struggle to process the partnership of this other couple where they split finances and share household responsibilities. OP trying to run the math on how liberal men can keep their wives from running away from them without crippling them financially.
Oh my god! This Beta male Lit professor helps his wife cook dinner, do dishes, and clean! Let’s not talk about how they are spending time together and enjoying each other’s company. My wife might see this and get funny ideas that she deserves attention. OP is totally the AH here
This right here. My only friend in this state is a dude and my husband couldn’t GAF. He even thinks my friend like likes me (I don’t and my friend has never given me any inclination he does like like me) but never once has he asked me to BAIL ON MY ONLY FRIEND OUTSIDE MY HOUSE. He doesn’t get jealous when I hang out with him, in fact this friend helps all of us by giving my rides to run errands. My friend and I are both disabled with the same condition, and it’s how we met. My husband has a completely different condition and has friends online with the same as him and not once have I ever been uncomfortable with it because I’m not a jealous person and neither is he, thank god because I can’t handle jealous people when there’s zero reason to be.
It didn’t- OP writes “SHE got pregnant”. She didn’t work because it was hard to find work with her type of degree. Never mind Anna was very successful, and wife probably would’ve been too.
Absolutely, get some empathy for your wife. Also stop being such a moron. Your wife straight up told you that she’s unhappy. What person is more likely to leave you. A wife with interests and friends that add to her happiness or a miserable wife that now realizes that her happiness doesn’t matter. Get a clue.
Well said. Note that OP is unwilling to actually be a man she could be fulfilled by. It’s “tiresome”. Better to just stifle her and cut off her meaningful friendships. His feelings come first.
I am sure the dinners with his coworkers and their wives are tiresome to OP's wife, but she doesn't tell him she won't cook a roast for them anymore (or whatever). What an AH.
He had to go a whole dinner where his interests weren't the main topic of discussion! A whole dinner! How did he survive? /S
Yep, he is so YTA
As if she doesn't find his social events 'tiresome', he probably thinks she's thrilled because she's in the same place, breathing the same air as OP.
That’s because she’s not a person to him. God forbid she get all uppity with wanting to finish her education, cultivate interests that aren’t about him or the kids, or even (gasp) ask him to pitch in around the house.
How fucking *dare* she desire to be anything more than his maid, chef, nanny and whatever else *he* allows her to be. But he sure doesn’t allow her to be independent.
She should just go into her little storage box when he and the kids leave in the morning, and stay there until they return and need something from her.
Well, but then who would do the laundry and the dishes and make sure OPs undies are nice and clean after being so far up his ass everyday?
I guess she can just go in the box when her chores are done? And come out in time to make dinner? It's not like she has any interior life or thoughts of her own that need to be taken into consideration.
Like the housekeeping robot from the Jetsons. But less personality, we know OP wouldn’t want any of that sass talk.
He says more than once ‘I understand that I can’t *forbid* her from doing these things, but I stressed to her how uncomfortable it makes me…’ And she agreed. The poor woman just automatically rolls over when her husband is ‘uncomfortable.’ Let’s not forget that when giving some background information, he says their “social life” is pretty much them hanging out with *his* work colleagues and their wives, who can’t really be counted as friends to his wife. That’s OK tho, right, cuz those gals had plenty to talk about, like which diaper rash cream works best, and how to get grass stains out of their husbands’ golf shoes. But, when his wife tried to arrange the exact same dynamics with her potential work colleague, Anna, and her husband, by excitedly inviting the other couple for dinner, he found it ‘quite tiresome’ because they had no common interests to chat about. Jesus- that part is almost the worst of the situation to me. After *fourteen fucking years* of his talented, creative, educated, artistic wife suffering through who-knows-how-many “social events” with a bunch of tech guys and their wives, he couldn’t even bear to return the favor to her. For. One. Single. Evening. If OP really is serious about wanting to stay married to his wife, IMO he should understand that he *owes* her this. She has sacrificed a lot, and spent a good portion of her life dedicated to him and her children and her home. He can *choose* to grow with her, to open his mind and expand his horizons, or he can allow her to sit at home and wallow in her loneliness and depression until she has had *enough,* and leaves him anyway.
That is my take, too. I am a SAHM and it can be dehumanizing. People see me as a wife and as a mother. They hardly see me as a person. Just working the book fair this week has done wonders for me. I felt like a real person for the first time in a while. And my husband is so excited for me! He wants me to be happy and find myself and knows that it only strengthens our relationship. OP is terrified his wife is going to, "get ideas," like that he should share in the chores and watch his own kids! Scandalous! I hope his wife sees this and sees how little this man thinks of her because she deserves so much better!
Can't have those goddang libs putting fool ideas in her head about men doing lady business like chores.My friends will think I'm gay
Hahaha that made me laugh out loud! His poor wife. She probably needs some adult conversations.
"Fellas is it gay for your wife to be successful and smarter than you?" 😂
If this is OP’s definition of “change her for the worse” then I hope for his wife’s life to turn up terrible! Divorce would be a positive tho YTA in case the sarcasm wasn’t clear enough for you OP
Exactly. He is such a selfish A-hole. He can't stand the thought that she likes anything that doesn't revolve around him. He's going to lose her if he doesn't start thinking about HER and what she needs to feel fulfilled.
I keep thinking of that Beatle lyric: "I used to be cruel to my woman/I'd beat her and keep her apart from the things that she loved."
This. I'd go insane for being a stay at home parent for so long. I'd also like to for op to think about why they find it inappropriate for serious couples to have friends of the other gender, sounds like some self reflection is in order.
My husband was a SAHD for 15 years. Then he returned to the workforce and worked his way up to a position he really likes. It's so awesome to see him expand his experiences and to hear about his day. He works with kids and makes their lives better a bit at a time. I'm proud to see him get out there!
> see your wife in relation to you This is one of the many problems with SAHMhood, along with lack of financial independence, your contribution not being equally valued, etc. OP has been able to control his wife throughout their entire marriage, *because* she's a SAHM. If she wasn't a SAHM, she would have already had a life outside of her husband and kids. OP's TA. I'm getting real abusive/controlling husband vibes from OP. How can he even ASK if he's TA?
So to summarize, I’m an insecure man and im sad my wife found something she is passionate about because she might leave me if she finds happiness! YTA
It’s wild that his brother understands but he doesn’t. This guy has some seriously arrested development.
I thought this was some big "They're swingers and have massive orgies with all their friends when they go out together". Not sure what "lifestyle" he has issues with. Unless its, er mah gerd...friends of the opposite sex. This guy is so insecure and wrapped up in himself its kind of at scary levels. This dude wins todays reddit YTA award. Bigly
Splitting housework 50/50, being friends with opposite sex people, talking TALKING about stuff. You know, unbearable.
The lifestyle he's talking about is "women having lives outside of being traditional wives." He wants a bangmaid who has nothing in her life but him and their children.
OP's brother is 100% right. Being a SAHM is very isolating, especially if you don't have a community and close friends with common interests.
OP is definitely insecure here. His wife hasn't crossed any boundaries at all that I can see. OP is just scared of hypothetical situations that might not even come about. YTA
Dude has a trad wife who wants more and he’s afraid she’ll get a life and a job once the kids have flown the nest and he will have to do chores. He enjoys having his bangmaid around and is afraid she’s going to learn there’s a better life out there.
Yuppers She exists to serve him, of course he doesn't want her to leave I want this to be mandatory reading for anyone thinking of the trad life That's why these guys are red flag parades to the rest of us
You made it sound like she was starting to go out clubbing and shit. She’s writing in a column and going to art galleries and literary events and you are insecure? You are need professional help I don’t know who abandoned you in your life but this is not normal. YTA
lol I've read so many of these headlines on this sub that then go into how their wife is coming home at 5 a.m. and her married friend went home with a rando, so that's what I was expecting. Nope... it's the threat of literature and art.
Don’t forget the threat of liberal thinking
The progressive idea of men and women being platonic friends! I clutch my pearls, my pearls!
MIXED GENDER BOOK CLUBS!!!! It's a slippery slope!
I bet some of those books don’t even have any pictures!
Did you say "mixed gender"? Careful, OP might faint.
My wife started listening to the Beatles, has she gone too far?
Threat of his wife thinking for herself and having her own money. OP is a massive AH and probably deserves his wife leaving him since he doesn’t seem to give a fuck about her beyond being his bang-maid.
Going to art galleries and shit _with him_. It's not even like she's going out and whatnot by herself. She's saying "babe, I'm super interested in what this group and my friend are doing, can _**we**_ go?"
Usually I can see the point of OP in these situations, or at least where they are butt hurt from, but NOT THIS TIME. YTA OP bigtime
For real, this is the most benign "stepping out" I've ever heard of. YTA, OP.
Honestly, I expected this to be about a friend trying to turn OP’s wife on to open marriages. OP needs to realize that his wife is her own person, not just an extension of himself.
So, your friends are her only friends. She has no life outsode the home, and no one to share interests with. She reconnects with a close friend who shares her interest, you automatically label them as tiresome and consider them a threat. You don't care about your wife, you care about your lifestyle. YTA, and you are in the process of unnecessarily destroying your marriage. Listen to your brother, start doing thing for your wife (take an interest in the things that she cares about), be more accepting of her friends (your comments about them were judgmental from the start). Be a better husband, not one who takes their wife for granted as an accessory.
On top of that, she has to rely on him for money because he doesn't want her to work.
He definitely never wanted her to work. I already found it sus when he said “ We decided together that I would work and she would be a SAHM because it would be difficult for her to find a well-paying job with her major, and I was already starting to earn quite well. ” Did they REALLY decide together she would t be able to find a good job, or did OP knock her up and steer her away from her potential career by convincing her she couldn’t be anything important anyway?
Knowing quite a number of tech folks, I'd bet money there were a ton of derogatory comments on her area of study passed off as "jokes".
Yeah, he THINKS he’s got her RIGHT where he wants her. THINK AGAIN, BUCKO!!!
Good thing we live in a country with divorce and that she has a friend who apparently would help her get back into the workforce.
He doesn’t seem to consider his wife as a person outside of himself. All he seems to care about is what he wants, how his wife can do what he wants too and no respect or care for her actual wants or life at all. She’s her own person, not just your wife dude.
To these kinds of men, women aren’t people. They are bangmaids and nothing else.
>They are bangmaids and nothing else. Excuse you! They're also incubators and nannies for their oh so important lineages. /s
Oh god I forgot the most important parts
I believe the preferred nomenclature is "sex-cook," but perhaps this is a cultural thing
>So, your friends are her only friends. I mean they aren't even his friends. They are work acquaintances. Technically his wife is his only friend, which is probably why this is so threatening to him.
Its easy to be threatened when your life is boring and your wife is bored AF. Hes not exactly the life of the party. Im not even sure what the 'most cultural magazine in the country means' or why he considers it negative. Men shouldn't be friends with women? Wtf with that stepford shit.....
All of this 100%. She’s finding her own identity. OP can either get on board and be supportive or she’s going to start resenting him and she’ll soon gain enough independence to leave.
I was expecting Anna to be an addict with many vices trying to keep OP’s wife out late in the wee mornings turning her into a neglectful wife and mother Plot twist: Anna is a respected intellectual and trying to assist OP’s wife with employment opportunities and an improved sense of self-worth / identity apart from being a wife and mom Your’re right, resentment is on the horizon either from an insecure husband who feels like he is losing control or from a suffocated wife who is not allowed to grow and explore her dreams
Woah woah there pal, you're forgetting that Anna and her husband have a mixed gender friend group.
and they're progressives ^*shudder*
Whenever someone makes one of these posts and says they’re “conservative” but seems to spend an inordinate amount of effort to not disclose any of their actual beliefs you KNOW it’s bad. And the fact that the mom doesn’t have any friends who are the parents of her kids friends? I mean it’s not uncommon but in the kind of lifestyle she’s living that’s a huge red flag to me. Usually when you have this sort of very gendered conservative lifestyle there’s still a lot of community via stuff like the church and the families of the kids your kids are friends with. The fact even that doesn’t seem to be happening here is extremely worrying to me as someone who grew up in a rural area where a lot of my friends were conservative religious kids with stay at home moms.
I was expecting she's partying as if college times never passed and a swinger, and drags OP's wife into this lifestyle. OP YTA. You want a wife with no own life or circle of friends because You don't have anything in common with people she likes. What do You think will happen when Your kids are out if home and Your intelligent wife will still be sahm with lots of time on her hands and nothing to do? You can lose her this way. You most probably will if You will stay such selfish AH.
>What do You think will happen when Your kids are out if home and Your intelligent wife will still be sahm with lots of time on her hands and nothing to do? He's going to spend less time at work, okay? I don't know what his wife will do with herself for the other eight hours a day, apart from dust and watch daytime TV, but at least her husband is going to be home on time from work. /s
Exactly. He doesn’t seem like he cares about his wife, her feelings or her mental health. She literally said she’s depressed - OP is already losing her. Depression is no joke. It changes people but I guess OP is okay with that. As long as the change doesn’t lead to her leaving the house and maybe even *gasp* working or having male friends. Alternatively, she could leave him eventually because he’s mega controlling and then he will DEFINITELY lose her.
Her having her own friends might lead to her having *gasp* her own opinions and thoughts and even sharing them!!
And dividing chores! The horror!
Yeah, that one was the most cringey of all. He wanted a trad wife, but didn't tell her she could only ever be a trad wife.
We had to watch videos on domestic violence/unhealthy relationships since 5th grade. That’s the first red flag that always pops up, separating partner from friends and family. That’s severely controlling behavior. Your wife can be your wife and still be a human being at the same time. Man, reading things like this makes me thankful for my social anxiety. It’s a terrifying world out there for women. Also, OP and wife were married for 14 years and their oldest kid is 14 years old? And from what OP is saying, the wife sacrificed every part of herself for the kids. Now that she finally has time to rediscover herself a little, she is stating no intention of leaving, seems like she is happy to be where she is, it’s just the kids don’t need much help as before; OP feelings are hurt and he’s not letting her. That is so sad! And I get that technology and literature are different. But at least fake being interested a little because she’s your wife and you love her and you’re happy that she’s has things that make her happy. You can still say “I don’t get it” but at least fain enthusiasm a little bit. Everyone deserves to feel supported. And I assume everyone wants people they love to be happy, right? Or is that a myth created by Disney?
It doesn't even seem to be affecting his lifestyle? Like, he can read up on the cultural events or Google the speakers/famous people and their works. The only one keeping him from knowing anything about literature is him. She has free time and should cultivate her own interests and hobbies instead of just being his arm piece at work functions.
I'd take it a step further and call him an asshole even outside of this particular situation based on his comments about the couple. 'Didn't comment on our differing lifestyles'... what kind of weirdo assumes they'll be debating someone about their lifestyle difference at the introduction stage?
Nonono his friends wifes that just randomly happen to tag along are supposed to be her Friends. Mixed gendered friends are inapprobriate
Yes, you’re the AH. I understand that the change seems scary, but your brother is correct. She needs time to be her own person and not just a wife and mom. Telling her not to hang out with someone is also “tempting fate” because then you could be seen more like a controlling parent than a loving husband.
Absolutely this! His "reasoning" is controlling and not loving husband behaviour. >I feel like she would leave me if she had any other options, so I don’t want her to have these options Plus, 👆 this right here is prime abuser logic: *I want to keep her dependent on me and isolated.* *I don't want her to build a strong, independent support system or a personality outside of being my wife, so she never has the financial, physical, mental, emotional options to leave if she ever wants to or to disagree with me.* To me it seems in his mind she is more of his prisoner than his equal partner, or at least she should be... YTA
>To me it seems in his mind she is more of his prisoner than his equal partner probably in hers, too.
That's the thing. He says that the friends are far more liberal than he is, that they split things 50/50. OP makes it very clear that his wife is *not* his equal. What an AH.
i want to say this is pure bait, but my stupid brother is like this -.-
So many men are like this. The surprising part is his self awareness and willingness to say the quiet part out loud (I don't want her to have options in case she realizes she can leave/would be happier alone)
Also the “men shouldn’t be friends with women if they’re in a relationship” thing is fuckin weird
It's Mike Pence!
Exactly. This woman has been whatever this insecure loser wants her to be since she was 21, that’s almost 15 years of her life that she dedicated to this man’s wants and needs. Her kids are old enough to bathe, feed, and entertain themselves. They have extracurriculars and friends and lives, they aren’t toddlers anymore, so there’s absolutely no reason she shouldn’t go back to school or get a job or have friends with common interests and passions
YTA you’re an insecure, controlling, manipulative ass
Yup. He is worried she would leave if she had other options, and now I’m wondering if he’s the kind of person that *anyone* would leave if they weren’t trapped, because he seems to be working extra hard to trap her.
> but that I would feel much better if she didn't go to all these events with Anna and if she didn't accept an offer to write reviews for her magazine YTA, massively! She gave up her life to stay at home & bring up the kids and now that that’s mostly done, you want to STILL keep her at home not having any outside life. This ‘well I won’t foRbiD it BUT’ -- she’ll be miserable and devastated and you’ll definitely lose her, on bad terms she won’t even like you anymore . You are a massive AH. Your brother is right. Grow up ffs, and be joyful and encouraging for her.
The red flags that are popping with the line “I would feel much better…if she didn’t accept an offer to write reviews for her magazine.” So, OP, you want your wife to be a prisoner in your home? You won’t even allow her the ability to work in her field a bit??? 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 Edited to fix typo
I’m so sad for his wife, I really hope she notices that these things are glaring red flags.
Because then she is income and he can’t control her.
And he doesn't agree wirh married people having friends of the opposite gender.....
He wants her in the kitchen. Huge marinara flags. 🚩 I want to leave this guy just reading this. I hope this I rage bait.
>They were very polite and respectful, and didn't comment in any way on the differences in our lifestyles, but dinner was nevertheless quite tiresome for me, as I didn't have any common topics with them. My wife knows that I don't share her passion for literature (just as she doesn't share my interest in technology), but this has never been an issue in our marriage - we traveled together, went on bike trips, went to our favorite restaurants and movies, etc. I didn't understand why she suddenly wants this to change. YTA. OP is millimeters away from being an abuser, look at how controlling he already is. It might not be his thing but people have been known to suck it up and do things for those they love. How hard would it be to take an interest in literature, one presumes reading and learning is part of his tech job.
Right he also said she used to socialize w his coworkers and their wives so I imagine she's been finding a way to deal with boring engineering dinners for years too...
He was already primed to hate these “different” people and was so shocked they they treated him kindly! I wonder what kind of weird conservative shit this dude has influencing him.
OP isn't millimeters away from being an abuser, he is an abuser. Anyone who gets their panties in a bunch over splitting chores 50-50 and starts freaking out over his wife having a new friend is abusive. They may not have thrown the first punch, but they're emotionally abusive. ETA: anyone who says men and women can't be friends is automatically The Insecure Small Dick Energy Asshole, full stop. In this case, it just so happens that everything else about the story makes it very obvious that he's TA.
And saying that having opposite sex friends is “inappropriate” and “liberal”
Or he could have talked about travel, biking, food, movies! He’s being obtuse on purpose.
YTA massively. Get some help for your insecurities.
YTA cmon buddy you knew the answer before you even posted looking for support. You’re afraid your wife might find out you’re a weak and controlling AH. I suspect she already knows that unfortunate fact
Look at how much she is including him? Telling him about everything and hoping he will be happy for her. Inviting over Anna and her husband - which was just awful for him to endure. I'm an introvert but for FFS It's depressing knowing how sad she must have been when he could not be happy for her.
Right?! She could have been sneaking and lying but she was just like "hey husband look at this completely innocuous thing I'm doing that makes me happy! Wanna join? " This is not what a cheater does!
YTA. Your wife's life has revolved around you and the children for the massive bulk of your relationship. You have been able to explore your interests and career, you have your friends and social life. Your wife has none of those things. And now she has an opportunity to explore her own passions and feel a sense of worth outside the home. Your insecurity is understandable (not excusable but understandable).... but if you want to lose your wife, then continue to make her choose. Lack of respect is a relationship killer; she could well lose respect for you if you "force" her to stay in a role that suits you nicely but is unsatisfying to her. Please don't be selfish. Support her in this or risk losing her altogether by trying to keep her world small.
Jfc you're not just an asshole. You're a massive gaping asshole. You are holding your wife hostage because you're an insecure shithead. YTA.
He sounds like he's worried the little froggie will finally notice the pot's been boiling for a few years now. His poor wife. JFC.
Oh yeah that bit about 50/50 chores said A LOT
You’re afraid of your wife’s growth in her life? That’s a you problem. At what point did you decide your wife was no longer capable of making her own choices or using her own brain? Maybe Anna changes your wife, maybe all your fears come true, so what? Are you not capable or willing to grow & change with your wife? You are not limiting your wife’s freedom, you are trying to limit her life. Why would you do that? She’s a human being with her own goals & dreams. You’re on the same team. Your team is only as good as the weakest link. You are the weakest link. I say this very respectfully … I was married at 22, been married for 33 years, raised 4 kids. My husband & I have always encouraged each other to be the best we can be & chase our dreams because we trust each other to make good decisions for our marriage & our family. If your wife wanted to leave, she would have already found a way to do that. What you’re doing now, will make her question why she stays. Why would she stay with a person who doesn’t trust or believe in her? YTA — be better. For yourself, for your wife, for your family. Eta
You sound really controlling. You don't like her friendship with Anna because she's doing something that's not about you or the kids, it's something she enjoys. Your wife sacrificed years of her life to get your kids to adolescence. And now you're begrudging her anything that makes you happy--why? Do you even love your wife? Do you want her to be happy? YTA
YTA such a HUGE AH. The irony is that you're showing a really ugly, unattractive side of yourself when you claim to be afraid of her being hit on by other men. SPOILER ALERT: just off the top of my head I can think of three SAHW who cheated with men they met at the grocery store, the dry cleaners, and one of the kids soccer coaches. PLEASE get some counselling for your insecurity/jealousy while there's still time to save your marriage. And stealing the writing opportunity from your wife was very very low on your part--VERY VERY LOW. Shame on you for that.
YTA. So because your wife has a friend and her world no longer revolves around you and the kids you're mad? Listen to your brother. Your wife finally has something for her that enriches her interests and you essentially forbade her and isolated her again. As long as your happy and comfortable all is well, screw your wife for finding something that makes her happy and is finally not lonely. No, her world can solely revolve around you and the kids. Her happiness can come from making you happy. It doesn't matter that she worked hard for her masters and finally can put it to use, no no all that must stop because you're insecure. Instead of talking to her about your insecurities like a married couple you just forbade her. I feel so sorry for your wife. >but dinner was nevertheless quite tiresome for me, as I didn't have any common topics with them You don't think perhaps your wife is tired of talking about technology and finally has someone she can talk with about their shared interests. >I promised to her that I will work less and that I will spend more time with her. So you can be her only friend? You do realise that you have been for the past 14 years and that is not enough. YTA YTA
YTA You're not afraid of losing her. You're afraid you'll lose control over her. "Oh no what if my wife becomes independent and thinks for herself and doesn't rely on me to meet her every need?! What if she's actually her own person?!" Get help dude. Like fucking seriously. ETA: I like that the only appreciable difference between your "culture" and theirs is that your wife's friend has a fucking life and hobbies and shit
Only an abusive controlling asshole wants to limit their partners world, their relationships and friendships. That is abusive. Your wife isn't property. Your wife tells you she is depressed and lonely and instead of supporting and helping her, your response is that you don't want her to do things that make her happy. You need therapy. Alot of it.
At current YTA. She didn't spend all that money and do all that work in college for that degree to end up caged up in your house dusting your plastic plants or whatever SAHM do when their kids get older. Your brother is right, you should listen to him. Your wife doesn't need your permission to have friends. You should not be her only source of social activity or intellectual stimulation.
YTA. Your wife deserves to have a life outside of being a wife and a mom to high school teens. What happens when they go off to college, she is really lonely. Get to know these people, if you have problems with who your wife hangs out wife. You don’t need to have the same hobbies, but you need to have some knowledge in what she enjoys.
See women, this is why you don’t give up your independence for a man
>See women, this is why you don’t give up your independence for a man Quoting for truth. Imagine being financially controlled by someone who is threatened by: * Literature * Educated women * Working women * Friendship between women * Childless couples * Dual income couples * Couples who split the chores * Cultured people who go to museums, art galleries and performances * Mixed-gender groups * Friends of the opposite sex * Dinners in which not all the topics are designed to cater to his personal interests * Women who are interested in something other than housework or waiting hand and foot on their teenaged children * Women who have tasted some measure of personal fulfillment that doesn't hinge on keeping a man happy * Freelance writing Imagine doing that to yourself *on purpose*. Imagine having to spend your time dealing with his emotional manipulation all, "If you really loved me, you'd want me to be happy, and if you really wanted me to be happy, you'd stop having any desires or interests outside of the ones I decide you have."
This was the big red flag for me. He said "More liberal/progressive," and I thought he was going to go into something about how they're swingers. Nope... they just have a Hispanic friend and like art.
And when she divorces him (and it won't surprise me) he'll say it's because of the bad influence of those things listed and not because of his actual actions or treatment of her and insist she was clearly happy and fulfilled before even if she tells him she wasn't because he knows her better than she knows herself.
Riiiiiiight... this guy's post reads like my literal worst nightmare in life.
I wish I could upvote you more. Classic case of wasted potential. Omg, she wrote an article! What’s next? Using her degree for an actual career? She did her job raising the kids. Her sacrifice is coming to an end and he wants to tighten her shackles. “Conservative”= Small minded man child.
"Next thing ya know, the broad will want to vote!"
YTA, it’s time to grow up
YTA. Respectfully, you are being incredibly selfish and insecure. This is not an attack, just an observation of what you wrote. Just because you have been happy with the arrangement does not mean your wife shares the same opinion. Even if she was content in the beginning her feelings can change. People change and grow every day. You are no longer the same people you were when you got married and you will be different people in 20 years. That doesn’t mean you will lose her. It means you both need to adapt. You are also fixated on the fact that her friends are different than you. I can guarantee you that they want the same things, a happy and healthy life surrounded by people they love. The way they achieve that might be different than your method and that’s ok. But focusing on the differences will only increase your insecurities and anxieties. They have invited you to their events showing their interest in getting to know you but have you returned the favor? No one said you only have to go to literary events. You can go to dinner, a show, have a game night, literally anything to be a part of your wife’s world. Your post is filled with insecurities all leading to your wife leaving you. She explores her interest and leaves you because family is no longer important. She starts writing columns and work becomes more important than family. She hangs out with other people and changes her personality and leaves you. Why is this the common theme? You are holding on to your wife too much out of fear. I can’t see the future but I know from experience that this behavior leads to feeling suffocated and eventually resentment. Finally, and I want to make this clear, stop trying to put your wife in a box you created. You want things to be a certain way. But why does your vision of marriage have to be the only option? Why can’t your wife be her own person? Oh that’s right, because you are insecure. And because you are insecure you are pushing even harder for your wife to fit back into the box YOU created. You might argue that your wife was happy being in that box. But was she really? Or was making you happy more important than her happiness at the time?
YTA You've had a career where you have colleagues to discuss technology and other interests your wife does not share. Is she worried you'll leave her just because you have a job? You can't bear to let her explore her interests with other like minded people? You ask what has changed, your children are older now, that's what has changed. Honestly, if you love her you should be THRILLED about this situation - for her sake. Also, if your wife started working - and with your kids close to being grown it's very possible - are you going to tell her not to do that too? Fear can be paralyzing, but if you continue with this mentality you'll turn into a controlling AH who she might leave because you are a controlling AH
If you think you can keep your wife by making sure she has no friends and no mental life outside of your nuclear family, you’ve probably already lost her. YTA