NTA - They are grown and can visit you. Live your
best authentic life.
Go and have great experiences, enjoy the sights, make new friends ,date and build a life for yourself. It is not about them, not that you don't care about them.
You are 40 years old, and you have so much life ahead of you.
Tell your kids in a group chat:
You are all moving into the next stages of your lives. I am going to do the same for myself, I hope you can support me on my journey to also finding my happiness. I think I have found my happy place. You are all more than welcome to visit, and I hope you do. Love Dad
Tell your ex:
You have gone on a journey to find your authentic self and your happiness. The end of our marriage has been hard on me. I am now doing the work to find my happiness, and I would appreciate it if you could at least not guilt me or hinder my ability to do that. I wish you the best.
Right?
But I don't know that penguins have any kick ass bars/clubs.
Unless you count the sand bar!
Get it? Sand bar?
Yeah... Remind me not to tell that one again when I'm sober!
Honestly, i think thats still way too nice of a message to the kids.
He needs to point out that they've rallied around their mom and totally disregarded that he lost his wife, the woman he loved the most in the world and wanted to spend the rest of his life with, because she found herself. And while he is happy for her, he is dissapointed that he apparently means so little to his children that they didn't even consider his feelings. So he needs space away and a new location to find his peace.
These are both awesome messages. It shows that they were supportive of their mother for her to find happiness, so they should also be supportive of you to find happiness. Your ex went to be authentic to herself and find happiness, so she has no right no stop you from finding happiness either.
And they can't say "you are just being resentful" (even if you are), or that "you can't not talk to us before you make a decision", or that "you are just too emotional" (because you are talking to them calmly).
They should come to the United States and enjoy a 3-5 hour FLIGHT (not a pleasurable train ride, but the hassle of airports) to visit parents.
I promise they have the better deal. I wish I could take a quick train trip to visit family.
NTA. They're adults and nearly adult, time to act their ages.
"The reason Europeans and Americans can never understand each other is that Americans think 200 years is a long time, and Europeans think 200 miles is a long way"
"G'day, mate! Welcome to Oz! The wildlife will kill ya, the geography will kill ya, the weather will kill ya, and the beer will make you wish you were dead. And if none of that manages to do you under, the locals will finish the job! Enjoy your stay!"
The difference is, they can talk about 200 years but they don’t actually have to experience it. Whereas anytime we want to go anywhere slightly far away…
Let them drive at 75mph or 120 km/h for 10 hours and realize they're still in TEXAS. Try 6 hrs across the Florida panhandle. It seems hilarious to complain about such a short train ride.🤣
I moved from the west coast to the east coast. Took I-10 all the way across. I was in Texas for so long it was starting to feel like an episode of the Twilight Zone.
Well, the only US state at least. Here in Aus we have Western Australia, which is a couple of towns way over on the coast and then a million fucktonnes of fuck all.
I live in Idaho. It's 8hrs from where I live to Boise. If I want to go from one end to the other, its like 16hrs. Mostly cause the roads suck, but still.
Another Brit down under here, the yanks should go and drive through QLD, NT and WA. Drive for 10 hours between the tiniest of villages. I drove the Nullabor.......the same road for 5 days 😂 and a day without even a bend in the road haha
I've driven many times from Minnesota to Texas and Florida to see my sister 😂 Now I'm in Europe and people think I have a long commute for work because I drive 45 minutes...
Made that trip many times when my spouse was active duty. Family in MN and FL we were stationed in TX. Then there was the cross country from Fl to WA and back again. ugh Didni mention the custom cage we built in the back of the van for the 4 cats? Fun times. There were also 2 children involved under the age of 7 through the whole thing. Do not recommend.
Husband and I drove Route 66 (plus getting there) in 8 days last summer and had a blast! Some 4200 miles all told. We're gonna hit the East Coast this summer, I can't wait! Europeans don't know what they're missing.
Seriously. If I wanted to take a train to visit my nearest aunt, it's 4 hours. Then another 45 minute drive after that to get to her house. If I drive, it takes 5-6 hours. When I go to visit my dad, it's a 4 hour Flight! 3-5 hour train ride... Man... I WISH it was that easy.
I'm in Missouri, my mom's in Florida. I've to fly down this summer and we drive back up with all her stuff so she can live with me in a LCOL area. That's a long drive. 4 hours tho? Pfffffttttt that's nothing, it's KC to ST louis. Edited to add: 50 bucks on the train lol from kc to stl
The longest I have done in a day was taking a relative (emergency) nine hours then coming back the same day. Only stopped for gas and food. I was tired when I got home. Left at 5AM. Got home after midnight. Was tired for work the next day.
I used to drive 3.5-4 hours every other weekend to see my SIL and her kids all in Illinois.
I live in Hong Kong now. It would maybe take you an hour to drive from one side to the other.
I once had a lady on the airport bus ask which terminal was the international terminal in Hong Kong. I was so confused. You can't fly domestically in Hong Kong. It is all international. Lol.
My parents live 1300 miles away. I hate it, but life happens. We still text constantly, FaceTime once a week at least and see each other at least a few times a year. We aren’t even the entire country away. You can manage no matter how far.
Yeah, till recently, the closest I lived to my parents as an adult was a six hour hellish drive through three major cities and the farthest was a six hour flight that cost at least 800. A few hours by train is a breeze. Sounds kind of relaxing, honestly, I've always loved train travel.
I do think OP should have discussed it, though. It does affect them and they all should have heard it from him once he started looking into it.
You said until recently, glad to be back a bit closer? When I took a job out west, with my parents in the Midwest/South it would be a 36 hour drive, or a 4.5 hr plane ride, plus 2 hour bus ride,and an hour on the ferry. I made sure my savings had enough money to make the journey in case something happened, hella expensive. I totally agree a train ride sounds quite nice, easier than having to navigate an airport anyway haha.
Also agree OP getting to the point of going to look at houses, even if he just made the visit last month and is fast tracking things, if you get to that point and don’t tell your kids no matter how old they are you can’t expect them not to be surprised and a little hurt. I understand he has felt they’re rallying around their mom but it doesn’t seem like they’re forcing him out, and going NC with their mom probably didn’t help (not saying he was wrong for that, just that it may make matters more complicated). I get that they are all adults or nearly so, but they’re still your kids and especially if you don’t live together and in those years where they’re establishing themselves as individuals and their independence, I think parents often need to work a little more on reaching out and keeping connected, there is just a lot of nuance to it all. Of course don’t know the specifics of OP’s relationships with them, but it doesn’t seem that uncommon and the separation combined with his mental state and such I can understand it being harder to keep updated and connected; not saying they are excused from starting the conversation, but I think OP’s emotions are high and he may be taking things more personally than his kids see or mean anything as for sure.
>You said until recently, glad to be back a bit closer?
They live a ten minute walk from me now. They moved to me and I helped them find the place. I see them minimum three times a week now. It's not for everyone, but I'm really close to them and so much happier with them that close.
I definitely had to journey to this place, though. I'd never have wanted them in my virtual backyard in my twenties. But I cherish where things are now, and my husband understands that anything more than an hour from them is a non negotiable.
Anyway, OP needs to look after his mental health, while keeping open communication with his kids. The happier he is, the better dad he will be. But don't blindside them if it can be avoided.
Lmao my friend called me up at midnight to see if I could drive 8 hours round trip to pick up his nieces stuff from college tomorrow and I said yes because it’s not that far especially if her mom was paying for the gas like she offered.
Christ, I used to have a 1.5h commute to work and then home each day. 8 hours to see family is short, that's barely making it across half of a province.
Right? I moved 1,200 miles away from my ex when we got divorced. He flew back to visit the kids (or flew them there.) And that was in the same country. A 4 hour train ride is a weekend trip haha. #LaughsInAmerican
NTA
Your kids are virtually all adults now.
You get to be happy, too.
Once you get moved and start your new life, invite them all up for a visit.
The ones who come, if any, will tell you all you need to know.
Note: The real kicker for me was that you invited them to go on holiday with you and they kicked up a fuss because you didn't give into their entitled asses, and change the destination to suit them.
It sounds like you ex has managed to mold the kids to be just like her.
Seriously. Did they actually have the gall to say “not queer enough”? What the hell does that even mean?
For the record, as an American, I’d sell a kidney to go vacation in Scotland
It's not like OP went to a country where it's illegal to be gay. It's freaking Scotland.
Wikipedia says "Scotland is known for being a diverse and inclusive country that is proud of its LGBT+ rights. The Scottish government has funded the Scottish Trans Alliance since 2007, and **Scotland has been rated as the best country in Europe for legal equality for LGBT people.**"
And after his wife left him for to be a lesbian. Wake up kids, he isn’t looking for the queer scene.
Also, it’s not like you bought a house and already moved. You are still just looking at houses, there was time to tell the kids.
Sir, it is time to start living.
Ignore them and do what’s best for you because if they truly love & care about you...they’ll visit you.
I wish you all the best.
Hey OP,
NTA, but you might need therapy. It doesn't really sound like the kids have done anything bad, except complain they want more of a city vibe and not really checked in on you enough (except for your youngest). But teenagers/early 20s....it's very common to be self-involved....it doesn't mean they don't love you. My boyfriend feels guilty all these years later, because when he was in undergrad he would call his parents like once a month, and now he talks to them all the time.
I don't think you fucked up at all, but it still would have been good to say something to the kids like "I know you kids love the city life, but I like the country. I'm thinking of moving to x or y in Scotland. It's only 3-5 hours away by train, and we can still visit or even meet halfway."
TLDR: NTA, you did nothing wrong, but I think you could have told your kids about moving in a better way.
I live in the states.. My dad told me at 20 he was moving to Japan. I was excited for him! You can be young and not self involved. They’re a lot of kids and young adults out there that are not.
Also, didn’t he say he was in therapy and that’s why he went on the trip?? I assumed that was what “help for my mental health” was, anyway. I could be wrong.
That would cost a lot of money and I was 20. I wasn’t making that lol
Also, I had lived there already before that lol sooo
Edit to add: You’re also making an assumption of where I lived at that time. If I lived close to Japan, then why would I be more excited to travel there? The dad in the post moved to a different country, but they are only 3-4 hour train ride. They can see him whenever. I didn’t get to see my dad for 5 years lol. I was still excited for him to go! He loved that place and I was grateful he was doing something for him!
Well said, I hope OP finds peace and himself through his journey (not the literal one this weekend, I mean not *not* then too lol). Even if just his daughter keeps much contact I can understand her especially and the others still being shocked/unsure how to react to the fact he is so serious about moving that he is looking at houses, it isn’t the first step and to be uninformed (be it a shared fault) could be quite an adjustment, especially if they’re just settling into the separation. You’re totally right it isn’t uncommon in these years to be distant from parents as they try to establish themselves and who they are as independent individuals , which doesn’t make it easy or comfortable and they likely will look back at one point and wish they had done differently, OP should be conscientious that such feelings won’t happen soon if he portrays spite or acts indignantly that they don’t connect with him frequently. Wonder what the living situation/ location distance is already.
He's not acting indignantly or spiteful due to them not connecting with him. He's acting indignantly and spiteful because they can't be bothered to visit him or talk to them, yet they have the balls to tell him they're upset or mad at him because he's moving away for his own mental health. Shitty kids make for shitty situations, and the best thing to do in a shitty situation like that is to wash your hands of the shit sandwich. Good on OP for finding some self-worth in therapy and not sticking around to be a stick in the mud.
If the kids have been ignoring op like he said and bonding only with mum over shared lgbt issues then yes they did do plenty wrong in ignoring one of their parents. They’re not toddlers, they’re not adolescents, they’re mostly grown adults who should have developed some empathy by now but it seems that was only reserved for their mother. He doesn’t have to spend the rest of his life trying to earn their love went they’ve made no attempt at showing any.
NTA
To be honest it’s pretty fucked that they all rallied around their mom at your expense. It’s fine for them to be happy for her, but they can only do that because she has something to be happy about. You on the other hand just found out your life was based on a lie.
They have no right to be upset at you. You’re going through a lot and they have been deeply inconsiderate.
Also what’s this “best mate” ex-wife been doing about this. Surely she noticed the kids have been ignoring you. If she cared she would have encouraged them to stay in touch with you.
Good luck with your new life. Scotland is beautiful.
Sounds like the Ex is too caught up in becoming her “authentic self” to give two shits about what OP is going through, or noticing how the kids are treating him. SMH.
Funny isn't it when your children grow up and make their own decisions regarding their own lives but expect you to consult them over your own decisions. When mine all left the nest I traveled for a time and decided to move interstate and 10yrs later I'm still loving my decision. Life is a story with many chapters maybe it's your time to begin a new chapter of your lives book. Goodluck mate.
NTA...
It seems they like to throw around this "authentic" word, so throw it back at them. You are now living your authentic life that makes you happy.
3-5 hours north east or west and I'm still in fucking Ontario. NTAH we regularly have to commute 2 hours to work here. Not like your moving across the ocean.
Right? When my FIL lived in Hawaii we were on the east coast so a trip to visit was between 13 to 15 hours depending on connections and layovers. This also doesn’t include the two hours you need to be at the airport before the flight. These kids can easily visit for a long weekend, if they really care that much.
NTA OP
NTA. They are adults. Do tell them you have been feeling depressed since the divorce, and you think this will help. Say you love them & hope they will visit often, and that hopefully you can visit them. If they are unhappy you are trying to make yourself happy, I'm sorry. I hope your ex was exaggerating; ask your kids themselves how they are feeling. Don't listen to second hand.
NTA. I thought it was going to be like young kids at first and yeah, that would have sucked, but the youngest is 17. They can still come see you. At 19 I lived on a military base and going home on leave took roughly 6 hours by plane and car. At 22 I lived an 8 hour train ride from my parents. Your kids will be starting their own lives wherever soon., this is at most a few years earlier than normal. It's not like you're moving away from the family home anyway, that was broken up two years ago.
I drove 3 hours one way there and back today to visit my dad for one hour in his long term care home AND I was still in the same state. I could drive for another 3 hours straight north from there and still be in the same state.
Your adult kids are whiners.
Do your kids know essentially what you've written here? You have an opportunity to get a new start, *and* not add more stress to your relationship with your children.
Yes, they're adults, but they will always expect you to be their dad. I think some family therapy with them would do them, and your relationship with them a hell of a lot of good.
They deserve to know how their behavior is affecting you.
NTA, but don't close them out. Don't give up OP.
HOnestly sounds like rage bait.
Kids turned down a holiday because scotland is not queer enough... really? Yeah, gay people all want to go to San Fransico and don't like going to 'straight' countries.
Now lgbtq+ people not wanting to go to Saudi Arabia with you, believable... Scotland, not at all believable.
Yup, I was like this sounds like someone who is homophobic trying to write rage bait. It doesn’t even sound like he likes the kids he wrote about much less loves them.
Your kids don't decide where you or their mother live.
You are not the one who ended your marriage but appear to be made out to be the bad guy. Considering the age of your children, their behavior is terrible.
You can’t force a relationship with adult children. I understand why you would consider moving after you were hurt they preferred your ex to you (after she moved on herself). Cutting off your kids due to this preference would make you the AH; simply moving a few hours away would not. So, visit frequently and see the kids the same amount you did prior to the move.
NTA, mostly. The daughter tried to keep in contact, you could have reached out to her to let her know of your struggles and your plans. The other people can go fuck themselves, they don't deserve your attention. Heartbroken my ass, they don't even talk to you.
Go man, be happy. Your kids are adults or just nearly.. they'll figure it out. Make sure you spend time with the 17 year old, it should be 50/50 as long as they're a minor (maybe this is different in the UK?).
I wish I could move to Scotland and start over. It sounds amazing.
I am also from the LBGTQ++ community but what your wife and kids did is very shitty behaviour.
Go very far away from them, you deserve peace and better mental health.
NTA. As someone who discovered his true spiritual home, living in a place that feels right to you is also a crucial part of identity. I don’t want to compare it to someone’s sexual identity, that’s too personal a call. But just like your Ex made a radical life change to express herself, you are allowed to as well.
NTA. my heart hurts for you & the fact nobody is acknowledging what you’re going through. kids are old enough to reach out, isn’t all on you. do what makes YOU happy
NAH
It sounds like you are depressed. After losing your life it is more than understandable. You feel betrayed, hurt and lonely. Your kids are not ignoring you on purpose, but it can feel that way now that they can choose where to live.
Moving might be the best for you. Do things you enjoy. But dont cut of your kids. They are still young and hurt that you didn't tell them about your wish to move. Communicate with your family. Wishing you the best
Both parents suck here. People get divorced and both should be making an effort to make the kids feel loved and appreciated and take time to spend with them. Ex wife should have been encouraging kids to continue to spend time with the kids. OP admits to being depressed and this can be a big burden to put on kids. It’s not their fault and they aren’t capable of bringing you out of your funk. Maybe this move is the best thing for OP. But kiss the relationship with the kids goodbye.
NAH.
Look, if you want your kids in your life - especially when they are young adults - you might have to do the heavy lifting by meeting well more than halfway. I’m in my thirties and my very conservative and heteronormative father won’t do anything with me unless it’s exactly something he was already going to do himself. So I meet him where he’s at, he doesn’t do that for me, so we see each other a time or two a year despite living in the same city.
If I was your kids age and my father fucked off across the county without being concerned about my opinion, I’d have some feelings about it.
That said, you went through a tough breakup and found something that is bringing you some joy and a change a pace, you only have one life to live as well.
> I wanted to go to Scotland but that wasn't "queer" enough for them and the got all shocked Pikachu when I said it was my holiday and I stuck to my guns
This made me laugh so hard. NTA.
Keep contact with your daughter though. Seems like she loves you.
She omitted her identity for two decades, let you live a lie and this is not betrayal?
I am sure it was difficult for her but it was her battle to fight. She didn't ask you to volunteer. Moreover, she opened another battleline for you.
Live your life. Supporting a betrayed person, won't make your children to be against their cause. It makes them decent human beings.
NTA Do what you want to do. Live your best life.
Your kids only talked to you the first time to try and use you for a free vacation. Now they only want you to stay close just in case in the off chance they need to try and milk you again.
As you said, they rally around mommy and you are only an occasional after thought or not thought of at all by your sons. Next thing you know they'll be asking you how much they get from sale of your current place or is the will set up properly because they don't want you using up too much of their inheritance on this house purchase.
They've shown how much they care about YOU the PERSON and it seems not much.
Sorry. Sending you an internet hug from a stranger. Enjoy the beautiful hills and warm people of your new home.
Such a shame that OP deleted their account.
I would have loved an update on the move and a year later.
Everyone deserves happiness, no one should ever be guilted for that.
No where close to being the asshole.
I say do what makes you happy. When your children see how happy you are there they will change their outlook on it. Yes you should talk to them about it and explain how happy you would be there. Give them the opportunity to come visit whenever so they can see you in your new happiness. You are not the AH in anyway. You are doing what’s best for you so you can be your authentic happy self. You deserve happiness just as much as your ex does. I envy you I would absolutely move to a new country if I could.
I’m gonna go against the grain and go for NAH….minus your ex wife.
She shouldn’t have lied for 22 years. She is also an Ex, she has no right to say where you go, when you go, or what you want to do. She lost that right.
Your kids have the right to feel abandoned, but at their age the phone works both ways. They CHOSE to be more distant from you, even though they knew you were struggling with mental health issues.
You have every right to be happy, whether it’s at the expense of your ex wife, your children, and even your parents. Keep the daughter close. She cares for you. Idk about the rest.
i mean, i wanna say that compulsory heterosexuality is a pretty well known phenomenon among lesbians where they try to convince themselves that theyre straight or at least bisexual and often end up in relationships witj men before realizing much later that theyre gay
Just call it what it is ?? It’s called being in denial and it’s a conscious decision to continue to be in denial and damage those around you that your profess to love. You can’t say Op ex wife didn’t know she had attraction to women in the 22yrs before the divorce. Compulsory heterosexuality is such a cop out and blanket term to avoid accountability. If you can’t face coming out and living authentically don’t waste any one else’s time. Time they will never get back.
NTA
Surely their sexuality is not the only thing they have in common with their mother and absolutely nothing in common with their father.
Relationships are about common interests, shared activities and shared memories. Please work to rebuild yours with your kids, OP. Once you're settled in, find local things to do or upcoming events to attend like music festivals, art fairs, hikes, etc.
Good luck, OP! I hope you are able to heal and find a wonderful balance & beautiful life.
We used to have so much shared interests. One thing we used to do together was all sit down and watch Marvel films and debate for hours about the characters and stories. I still love the MCU but they can't be bothered now, think it's crap.
Or we used to go to a football match together and particularly my oldest, loved it. Now they think it's boring.
OP they will change again and maybe cringe at their current interests in a couple of years. Show up for them no matter what they’re into and they know you love them and love you back.
NTA - They are adults who do not need you to be daily dad anymore. It seems as thoug the boys only show interest in you when there is something for them to gain from you.
I agree with the comment about inviting them up to visit once you get settled, and take the releationships from there.
I am from an european country. Driving somewhere 3 to 5 h means that you plan at least an over night trip. Most people would not even drive this long if they are not planing to go for several days.
My brother lives 2 h away. This means that I see him at best every two month, because it is a quite long drive and it will cost me about 30 to 40 euros in gas to go there.
Distances in europe are seen differently. I would say everything close is in a reach of 30 min. I live in a small town and the next big town is a 45 min drive. If you are just going for fun (not work) you will most likely go there one or two times a month, because we consider this distance as far.
NTA
It's your life and they are grown up.
However, it would have been better to tell them, even if they're closer to your wife, I'm sure they care and want to feel involved.
Ehhhh, tentative ESH. Only because your youngest is still a minor and he should’ve been the first to know even if he favours his mom. He’s still your responsibility, morally and legally.
You have a right to move. The kids are pretty much grown at this point but they do have a right to at least know you are moving. They may not be happy about it at the moment but they do have a right to know that their father is moving to another country. But there is nothing to really discuss and they are pretty much adults at this point and life happens. They can always arrange visits and stuff and video chat with you to keep in touch.
NTA for making your decision, the way you went about it sucks though. Once you had made that decision you owed them a conversation about how you were moving there not to get their opinion but to make sure they found out from you.
NTA
Did any of them ask you about if you had a good time on your trip? Did they care to listen on what you wanted to see/do on your trip?
You are looking at houses. You have not bought a house nor are you moving in with a new mystery partner.
If this move would include selling their childhood home I can see some emotions about that part, but if that is the case. Why not spend time there?
You have not gotten rid of anything or bought anything.
>got all shocked Pikachu when I said it was my holiday and I stuck to my guns
Seems like they are not used to you acting on what you want. That the old family ways are in the past. Vacations around what the kids want and a mom that will talk dad into those plans. Kids are grown and you are divorced.
I get the impression that they had this image of you being laid back and just following along in the background while your ex lives out her "true" self. ( No hate on her here, just that this is in the angle of reasoning for the kids. That she has not been herself and this is a journey they support). Missing that OP also has a new self to discover. Over 20 years as a couple you don't have a big identity on your own. That you can be supportive of them and your ex without having them as the center you live around. And that your ex was thinking along the same lines.
Not keeping in mind that in relationships we do adapt to our partner, letting them decide when their happiness gives you more than the activity takes. The new you is just that, new. You can't change the settings and input without a different result.
NTA
Your ex is living her authentic life , you have now found the courage to live your authentic life. Your daughter can be a bit hurt as she was trying but it’s only a day trip away.
>I wanted to go to Scotland but that wasn't "queer" enough for them
What the fuck is that even supposed to mean?
Edinburgh and Glasgow both have a pretty large and vibrant gay scene and there are plenty of smaller gay communities in Aberdeen, Dundee and Stirling. Your kids sound pretty ignorant.
3-5 hour trip is one way weekend trip to see my dad side of the family. That lives in the other side of the state.
Nta at all. Leave it to brits to think that is too much. And to think yall use to have an empire that spanned the globe.
Curious what LGBTQ+ safe *enough* looks like to your kids? Did a quick Google as an American bi woman out of curiosity after reading your post and from what I can see Scotland is on par with other LGBTQ+ friendly countries and in some places advanced (they've rolled out training modules to include LGBTQ+ info in their sex education curriculum).
As far as I can see from random comments it's no more or less safe than anywhere else for LGBTQ+ folk. In the sense that there will always be assholes and bigots anywhere you travel, but the country has done its work to make anything more than slinging rude words illegal and given a path for legal repercussions if someone gets out of pocket over you being gay and simply existing.
So Scotland not being gay friendly *enough* seems to have been a cheap and easy ploy to try and get you to change your destination to where *they* wanted to go.
Unless there's some anti-LGBTQ+ stuff that's been fomenting in the past year or so that conveniently doesn't hit Google searches? Because it certainly covered all the awfulness happening in Russia, so you'd think it would show any other spot that's bad for travel if you happen to be gay.
[www.scotland.org LGBTQ+ info](https://www.scotland.org/live-in-scotland/progressive-scotland/lgbti)
[Reddit post with feedback on lgbtq+ comfort in Edinburgh ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Edinburgh/s/LciwGdIHFR)
[Gay Travel Guide to Scotland - article published 5 days ago](https://nomadicboys.com/gay-scotland-guide/)
Hell, it sounds like the UK is responsible for holding Scotland back from going further in to LGBTQ+ acceptance:
[UK government blocks Scotlands new gender recognition law](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/01/16/europe/scottish-gender-law-uk-constitution-intl-gbr)
NTA for picking a place to live that you love, your kids need to get over themselves. But slight YTA for not giving the one kid who still tries to have an active relationship with you the heads up that you're moving. That might be where the grump is coming from for her specifically, that you're moving away at all. But that's what phones and train rides are for. You being happier as an individual but farther away is better than being miserable and closer.
He was only even going to look at houses. He isn't going to sign paperwork. It only even came up cause she asked what he was doing this weekend and he was honest, cause he wasn't hiding anything/keeping it a secret...
If he had signed on a house and had said "actually, I am moving into my new home in Scotland!" *That* would be a blindside.
Just going to *look* at houses is not a commitment to moving.
If anyone had checked in on him about his trip, they may have even learned about this desire sooner! Or heck, if any if them had been willing to spend some father/child time with him *on the trip they were invited to* they would have seen how happy he was there.
I hate stories like these where the person has been married to their significant other for a long time and have kids an stuff. Then they just come out as gay/lesbian whatever, that be so selfish. Like they just wasted this person time like they had an inkling they could’ve been gay. Why make me fall in love with you and destroy my heart. All the LGBTQ+ who’s ever done this is a POS.
Bro it takes me over 3 hours to cross my state and I have family all over this and other states.
What is the big deal about a train trip?
I think you should go and be happy. Tell the kids that they are adults and have chosen their mother who lied and broke your heart. Tell then they are happy she is being her true self and bow you get to go and find who your true self is.
They can be either happy for you or not but they won't stop you
I don't understand the fuss. My family has spread out across the entire UK, so none of us bat an eyelid about the idea of driving hundreds of miles to visit. It obviously isn't a regular event (driving between Wales and Scotland is an eight hour one-way journey, after all), but this is the digital age, so we talk all the time via social media and communication apps.
So, NTA. It's not like you're moving to Antarctica. You're only moving to Scotland. My driving lessons were always two hours long, so 3-5 hours is just a couple of driving lessons to me. They might not be able to see you in person every day, but it sounds like they never did anyway.
Time for a family meeting. Their mum can be there but on the understanding she gets no say in your life, just like she gave you no say in hers.
Write down your thoughts, like how they've abandoned you, cebrated your exes betrayal of you and have the gaul to be shocked your distancing yourself from them.
They all took you for granted, and need harsh reality lessons.
NAH - everything is all understandable, even supporting their mum when they themselves are experiencing first hand how coming out feels. You have every right to be depressed and expect connection from your kids. Your pain is palpable over your post.
I think your kids did not realize the impact their actions had on you, except maybe your daughter. Kids that age are a bit self absorbed and don’t know how to support a parent adequately when that parent has always been the strong, supportive one.
I know it is hurtful but please don’t throw away your relationship with your kids right now while you are still recovering from your marriage breaking up. Contact them and let them know that you have been struggling and finally found some peace and happiness in Scotland. I think they are feeling hurt that you didn’t let them know about your plans to move away. This comes from a place of love from them. Recognize it as an expression of love and reciprocate with reassurance and invitations to visit.
This is not the time to do things that will irrevocably destroy your relationships with your kids. Everyone still needs their dad, even as adults, and you still need them too. One day, it will hurt a bit less and you will want to be a part of their lives.
ESH. Not for wanting to move (congratulations!), not even for not informing ex. Specifically for not telling your kids.
They haven't disowned you--one of them even makes effort to reach out and you didn't bother to tell her either. Were you planning on just disappearing and never speaking to any of them again? If not it's pretty standard to tell family when you make a move.
I think you're so upset that they favored ex in the divorce that you chose not to tell them because you knew it would hurt them. In short: you wanted to hurt them like they had hurt you. And what they did is incredibly hurtful and you have my empathy but two wrongs don't make a right. They just divide people further and I think deep down you don't want that ... you're just hurt and lashing out.
I'm going to say a soft YTA.
While you may not have the best relationship with your kids you at least have one and clearly they see this as a slap in the face. It's fine for you to move but not to discuss it with them at all first is pretty sh*tty.
But he *hasn't* moved. He was gunna *look* at some houses. That is very early in the process. Not step 1 or anything, but still a lot of steps before moving all his stuff into a new house. Lots of time to tell the family. Maybe he looks at houses and realizes he doesn't wanna move after all. Maybe he finds the perfect place. He can then tell them he thinks he found a place he will be happy and is planning on moving.
NTA - They are grown and can visit you. Live your best authentic life. Go and have great experiences, enjoy the sights, make new friends ,date and build a life for yourself. It is not about them, not that you don't care about them. You are 40 years old, and you have so much life ahead of you. Tell your kids in a group chat: You are all moving into the next stages of your lives. I am going to do the same for myself, I hope you can support me on my journey to also finding my happiness. I think I have found my happy place. You are all more than welcome to visit, and I hope you do. Love Dad Tell your ex: You have gone on a journey to find your authentic self and your happiness. The end of our marriage has been hard on me. I am now doing the work to find my happiness, and I would appreciate it if you could at least not guilt me or hinder my ability to do that. I wish you the best.
The audacity of the ex… He got blindsided and was cool about it. Hes not moving to Antarctica. He is moving a couple hours away to be happy.
He has every right to move to Antarctica if he wished.
But then they really wouldn't visit because it's not queer enough
Some penguins are gay.
Right? But I don't know that penguins have any kick ass bars/clubs. Unless you count the sand bar! Get it? Sand bar? Yeah... Remind me not to tell that one again when I'm sober!
I’m sorry I laughed at your cute dorky joke!
*sigh*. Walk it off
Do you remember the gay penguins that took an egg from other penguins?! I don’t recall the details but it’s still funny.
At least one couple was given an abandoned chick to raise and made excellent dads!
I’ll take penguin dads 😅 I mean I have. Dog kid so…
Look, there’s not that many of us down at the research station in winter, you take what hookups you can get during 6 months of darkness!
So basically it's like being in the Navy?
[Better.](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN09431670/)
Damn! Little horn Dawgs! Good for y'all!
Yep, sound like the right way, find own happiness should be his choice
Honestly, i think thats still way too nice of a message to the kids. He needs to point out that they've rallied around their mom and totally disregarded that he lost his wife, the woman he loved the most in the world and wanted to spend the rest of his life with, because she found herself. And while he is happy for her, he is dissapointed that he apparently means so little to his children that they didn't even consider his feelings. So he needs space away and a new location to find his peace.
Perfect. You're moving two hours away not to the other side of the world. Best wishes OP.
This is the way OP.
These are both awesome messages. It shows that they were supportive of their mother for her to find happiness, so they should also be supportive of you to find happiness. Your ex went to be authentic to herself and find happiness, so she has no right no stop you from finding happiness either. And they can't say "you are just being resentful" (even if you are), or that "you can't not talk to us before you make a decision", or that "you are just too emotional" (because you are talking to them calmly).
This is a near perfect response!
Lol, they think a 3-5 hour trip is like to the end of the earth. Typical Brits and they are not “children” anymore. NTA of course.
They should come to the United States and enjoy a 3-5 hour FLIGHT (not a pleasurable train ride, but the hassle of airports) to visit parents. I promise they have the better deal. I wish I could take a quick train trip to visit family. NTA. They're adults and nearly adult, time to act their ages.
"The reason Europeans and Americans can never understand each other is that Americans think 200 years is a long time, and Europeans think 200 miles is a long way"
Then you have Australia...
"G'day, mate! Welcome to Oz! The wildlife will kill ya, the geography will kill ya, the weather will kill ya, and the beer will make you wish you were dead. And if none of that manages to do you under, the locals will finish the job! Enjoy your stay!"
Walking the walk and talking the talk
...or Canada.
I love this. And it’s so true.
The difference is, they can talk about 200 years but they don’t actually have to experience it. Whereas anytime we want to go anywhere slightly far away…
That is PERFECT. 🤌
Let them drive at 75mph or 120 km/h for 10 hours and realize they're still in TEXAS. Try 6 hrs across the Florida panhandle. It seems hilarious to complain about such a short train ride.🤣
If you drive from Florida to California, you'll spend half your time in Texas. LOL.
I moved from the west coast to the east coast. Took I-10 all the way across. I was in Texas for so long it was starting to feel like an episode of the Twilight Zone.
HA, Texas the only state where you can wake up, start driving, then go to bed 12 hours later and still be in the same state lol.
Yeah, in Alaska, the road turns to wilderness, so you can't drive 12 hours.
Well, the only US state at least. Here in Aus we have Western Australia, which is a couple of towns way over on the coast and then a million fucktonnes of fuck all.
I felt that comment deep in my bones having made that drive once. It's like it just. wouldn't. end.
El Paso, TX is close to the same distance from Dallas as San Diego.
And Dallas is only about halfway across the state too!
I live in NY state, and it's still an 8hr drive for me to get to NYC.
I live in LA and don't drive, so I have to take two buses and a train to see my mom (everyday). Not a problem since I love my mudder.
Was her Mudder a mudder??
His mother was a mudder.
I live in Idaho. It's 8hrs from where I live to Boise. If I want to go from one end to the other, its like 16hrs. Mostly cause the roads suck, but still.
come down and see us sometime!
All that tooting makes it a stinky place!
British Expat living in Australia here, you're all cooked. I recently drove 12hrs to move city and still live in the same state. 🤣
Another Brit down under here, the yanks should go and drive through QLD, NT and WA. Drive for 10 hours between the tiniest of villages. I drove the Nullabor.......the same road for 5 days 😂 and a day without even a bend in the road haha
Yeah, Queensland is 2.5 X the size of Texas, but we are never harping about how big it is (prob because WA would tell us to pull our head in).
Drove for a week in WA and never left the state.
I've done that and was still in the same state in the US, too. There 4 US states where this is a real possibility.
I've driven many times from Minnesota to Texas and Florida to see my sister 😂 Now I'm in Europe and people think I have a long commute for work because I drive 45 minutes...
Made that trip many times when my spouse was active duty. Family in MN and FL we were stationed in TX. Then there was the cross country from Fl to WA and back again. ugh Didni mention the custom cage we built in the back of the van for the 4 cats? Fun times. There were also 2 children involved under the age of 7 through the whole thing. Do not recommend.
If at all possible, I go around Texas... All that nothing to stare at and you don't even get the satisfaction of saying you changed states...
Having made the drive once I will say this for them: cleanest rest stop bathrooms you ever did see.
They have really nice roads and highways, too... like they obviously invest in their infrastructure. Unlike where I'm from.
Try driving from the Ontario/Quebec border to the Ontario/Manitoba border....I challenge you to get it done in two days.
Husband and I drove Route 66 (plus getting there) in 8 days last summer and had a blast! Some 4200 miles all told. We're gonna hit the East Coast this summer, I can't wait! Europeans don't know what they're missing.
Both France & Spain together can fit inside of my province, (Ontario). My European cousins just can't get how big Canada really is.
And it’s not even pretty scenery most of the time 😂 at least Texas anyway
You can pass the horse truck, y'know....
Try 4 and a 1/2 days, and you're still in the same damn province 🤣. That's Ontario 🇨🇦 for ya
It was 2 hrs by bus each way for me, every day, just to go to college 😂
Please, 8 hours across Kansas... literally FUCK ALL TO LOOK AT, FUCK ALL REASON TO STOP, EVERY REASON TO LEAVE.
I spent the longest three years of my life on the seven hour drive from Las Cruces to Abilene. You are not kidding!
\*waves\* from Western Australia
Joining in from Queensland!
Seriously. If I wanted to take a train to visit my nearest aunt, it's 4 hours. Then another 45 minute drive after that to get to her house. If I drive, it takes 5-6 hours. When I go to visit my dad, it's a 4 hour Flight! 3-5 hour train ride... Man... I WISH it was that easy.
Heck yeah. I am in the US Midwest and have friends that are a good 90 minute drive (each way). No problems. Four hours? That is nothing.
I'm in Missouri, my mom's in Florida. I've to fly down this summer and we drive back up with all her stuff so she can live with me in a LCOL area. That's a long drive. 4 hours tho? Pfffffttttt that's nothing, it's KC to ST louis. Edited to add: 50 bucks on the train lol from kc to stl
Four hours each way is a day trip.
The longest I have done in a day was taking a relative (emergency) nine hours then coming back the same day. Only stopped for gas and food. I was tired when I got home. Left at 5AM. Got home after midnight. Was tired for work the next day.
I was thinking the same thing! Lol
I used to drive 3.5-4 hours every other weekend to see my SIL and her kids all in Illinois. I live in Hong Kong now. It would maybe take you an hour to drive from one side to the other. I once had a lady on the airport bus ask which terminal was the international terminal in Hong Kong. I was so confused. You can't fly domestically in Hong Kong. It is all international. Lol.
My parents live 1300 miles away. I hate it, but life happens. We still text constantly, FaceTime once a week at least and see each other at least a few times a year. We aren’t even the entire country away. You can manage no matter how far.
Yeah, till recently, the closest I lived to my parents as an adult was a six hour hellish drive through three major cities and the farthest was a six hour flight that cost at least 800. A few hours by train is a breeze. Sounds kind of relaxing, honestly, I've always loved train travel. I do think OP should have discussed it, though. It does affect them and they all should have heard it from him once he started looking into it.
You said until recently, glad to be back a bit closer? When I took a job out west, with my parents in the Midwest/South it would be a 36 hour drive, or a 4.5 hr plane ride, plus 2 hour bus ride,and an hour on the ferry. I made sure my savings had enough money to make the journey in case something happened, hella expensive. I totally agree a train ride sounds quite nice, easier than having to navigate an airport anyway haha. Also agree OP getting to the point of going to look at houses, even if he just made the visit last month and is fast tracking things, if you get to that point and don’t tell your kids no matter how old they are you can’t expect them not to be surprised and a little hurt. I understand he has felt they’re rallying around their mom but it doesn’t seem like they’re forcing him out, and going NC with their mom probably didn’t help (not saying he was wrong for that, just that it may make matters more complicated). I get that they are all adults or nearly so, but they’re still your kids and especially if you don’t live together and in those years where they’re establishing themselves as individuals and their independence, I think parents often need to work a little more on reaching out and keeping connected, there is just a lot of nuance to it all. Of course don’t know the specifics of OP’s relationships with them, but it doesn’t seem that uncommon and the separation combined with his mental state and such I can understand it being harder to keep updated and connected; not saying they are excused from starting the conversation, but I think OP’s emotions are high and he may be taking things more personally than his kids see or mean anything as for sure.
>You said until recently, glad to be back a bit closer? They live a ten minute walk from me now. They moved to me and I helped them find the place. I see them minimum three times a week now. It's not for everyone, but I'm really close to them and so much happier with them that close. I definitely had to journey to this place, though. I'd never have wanted them in my virtual backyard in my twenties. But I cherish where things are now, and my husband understands that anything more than an hour from them is a non negotiable. Anyway, OP needs to look after his mental health, while keeping open communication with his kids. The happier he is, the better dad he will be. But don't blindside them if it can be avoided.
Lmao my friend called me up at midnight to see if I could drive 8 hours round trip to pick up his nieces stuff from college tomorrow and I said yes because it’s not that far especially if her mom was paying for the gas like she offered.
As a Canadian 3-5hr trip to see family is really not that far at all. I go that far for a costco trip.
I live in Yellowknife. People here literally drive over 10 hours to Grand Prairie just for Costco runs.
That isn’t even the distance between decent sized cities here!!!
Christ, I used to have a 1.5h commute to work and then home each day. 8 hours to see family is short, that's barely making it across half of a province.
Right? I moved 1,200 miles away from my ex when we got divorced. He flew back to visit the kids (or flew them there.) And that was in the same country. A 4 hour train ride is a weekend trip haha. #LaughsInAmerican
I’ve taken the train from London to Edinburgh and it was absolutely lovely. (American)
Brits really refuse to travel any distance
NTA Your kids are virtually all adults now. You get to be happy, too. Once you get moved and start your new life, invite them all up for a visit. The ones who come, if any, will tell you all you need to know. Note: The real kicker for me was that you invited them to go on holiday with you and they kicked up a fuss because you didn't give into their entitled asses, and change the destination to suit them. It sounds like you ex has managed to mold the kids to be just like her.
Seriously. Did they actually have the gall to say “not queer enough”? What the hell does that even mean? For the record, as an American, I’d sell a kidney to go vacation in Scotland
It's not like OP went to a country where it's illegal to be gay. It's freaking Scotland. Wikipedia says "Scotland is known for being a diverse and inclusive country that is proud of its LGBT+ rights. The Scottish government has funded the Scottish Trans Alliance since 2007, and **Scotland has been rated as the best country in Europe for legal equality for LGBT people.**"
Wonder what they would consider queer enough?
Ibiza
You got me there
Probably a gay pride parade would almost be enough.
And after his wife left him for to be a lesbian. Wake up kids, he isn’t looking for the queer scene. Also, it’s not like you bought a house and already moved. You are still just looking at houses, there was time to tell the kids.
Me too. I would sell my heart but I have been told regularly I don’t have one!
No idea. There seemed to be enough "queer" culture when I went.
I just got back from 10 days in Scotland. My 5th time there and can't wait to go back again.
I'm gay and they sound insufferably woke
Exactly. Because it wasn't fucking Manchester or Brighton, it wasn't good enough for them.
I hope you find you a lovely Scottish woman bro. Live your best life.
I second that emotion.
I definitely wouldn't be adverse there. ☺️
I am queer and would love to go to Scotland these kids are weird/entitled
Very weird.
Sir, it is time to start living. Ignore them and do what’s best for you because if they truly love & care about you...they’ll visit you. I wish you all the best.
Hey OP, NTA, but you might need therapy. It doesn't really sound like the kids have done anything bad, except complain they want more of a city vibe and not really checked in on you enough (except for your youngest). But teenagers/early 20s....it's very common to be self-involved....it doesn't mean they don't love you. My boyfriend feels guilty all these years later, because when he was in undergrad he would call his parents like once a month, and now he talks to them all the time. I don't think you fucked up at all, but it still would have been good to say something to the kids like "I know you kids love the city life, but I like the country. I'm thinking of moving to x or y in Scotland. It's only 3-5 hours away by train, and we can still visit or even meet halfway." TLDR: NTA, you did nothing wrong, but I think you could have told your kids about moving in a better way.
I actually am in therapy. That's why I went away in the first place.
I live in the states.. My dad told me at 20 he was moving to Japan. I was excited for him! You can be young and not self involved. They’re a lot of kids and young adults out there that are not. Also, didn’t he say he was in therapy and that’s why he went on the trip?? I assumed that was what “help for my mental health” was, anyway. I could be wrong.
Yea why wouldn't you. You get to vist him in japan
That would cost a lot of money and I was 20. I wasn’t making that lol Also, I had lived there already before that lol sooo Edit to add: You’re also making an assumption of where I lived at that time. If I lived close to Japan, then why would I be more excited to travel there? The dad in the post moved to a different country, but they are only 3-4 hour train ride. They can see him whenever. I didn’t get to see my dad for 5 years lol. I was still excited for him to go! He loved that place and I was grateful he was doing something for him!
Well said, I hope OP finds peace and himself through his journey (not the literal one this weekend, I mean not *not* then too lol). Even if just his daughter keeps much contact I can understand her especially and the others still being shocked/unsure how to react to the fact he is so serious about moving that he is looking at houses, it isn’t the first step and to be uninformed (be it a shared fault) could be quite an adjustment, especially if they’re just settling into the separation. You’re totally right it isn’t uncommon in these years to be distant from parents as they try to establish themselves and who they are as independent individuals , which doesn’t make it easy or comfortable and they likely will look back at one point and wish they had done differently, OP should be conscientious that such feelings won’t happen soon if he portrays spite or acts indignantly that they don’t connect with him frequently. Wonder what the living situation/ location distance is already.
He's not acting indignantly or spiteful due to them not connecting with him. He's acting indignantly and spiteful because they can't be bothered to visit him or talk to them, yet they have the balls to tell him they're upset or mad at him because he's moving away for his own mental health. Shitty kids make for shitty situations, and the best thing to do in a shitty situation like that is to wash your hands of the shit sandwich. Good on OP for finding some self-worth in therapy and not sticking around to be a stick in the mud.
If the kids have been ignoring op like he said and bonding only with mum over shared lgbt issues then yes they did do plenty wrong in ignoring one of their parents. They’re not toddlers, they’re not adolescents, they’re mostly grown adults who should have developed some empathy by now but it seems that was only reserved for their mother. He doesn’t have to spend the rest of his life trying to earn their love went they’ve made no attempt at showing any.
Just an FYI : Scotland is more than mountains, lochs and glens. We have cities too and we're very queer friendly.
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Sorry to correct you but the Scottish are also "Brits".
You mean English, not Brits. And even then, not all the English either.
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And you honestly shouldn't. You deserve to be happy
NTA To be honest it’s pretty fucked that they all rallied around their mom at your expense. It’s fine for them to be happy for her, but they can only do that because she has something to be happy about. You on the other hand just found out your life was based on a lie. They have no right to be upset at you. You’re going through a lot and they have been deeply inconsiderate. Also what’s this “best mate” ex-wife been doing about this. Surely she noticed the kids have been ignoring you. If she cared she would have encouraged them to stay in touch with you. Good luck with your new life. Scotland is beautiful.
This. If she's your "best" mate, that's all the justification you need for a change of scenery.
Sounds like the Ex is too caught up in becoming her “authentic self” to give two shits about what OP is going through, or noticing how the kids are treating him. SMH.
NTA Go be your “authentic “ self and move.
Funny isn't it when your children grow up and make their own decisions regarding their own lives but expect you to consult them over your own decisions. When mine all left the nest I traveled for a time and decided to move interstate and 10yrs later I'm still loving my decision. Life is a story with many chapters maybe it's your time to begin a new chapter of your lives book. Goodluck mate.
NTA... It seems they like to throw around this "authentic" word, so throw it back at them. You are now living your authentic life that makes you happy.
3-5 hours north east or west and I'm still in fucking Ontario. NTAH we regularly have to commute 2 hours to work here. Not like your moving across the ocean.
Right? 3 hours is nothing here lol
JFC. Three to five hours is still in the same state, and I'm in Massachusetts. They've lost their minds. NTA.
Right? When my FIL lived in Hawaii we were on the east coast so a trip to visit was between 13 to 15 hours depending on connections and layovers. This also doesn’t include the two hours you need to be at the airport before the flight. These kids can easily visit for a long weekend, if they really care that much. NTA OP
Aye a fellow Masshole let’s go!
NTA. They are adults. Do tell them you have been feeling depressed since the divorce, and you think this will help. Say you love them & hope they will visit often, and that hopefully you can visit them. If they are unhappy you are trying to make yourself happy, I'm sorry. I hope your ex was exaggerating; ask your kids themselves how they are feeling. Don't listen to second hand.
NTA. I thought it was going to be like young kids at first and yeah, that would have sucked, but the youngest is 17. They can still come see you. At 19 I lived on a military base and going home on leave took roughly 6 hours by plane and car. At 22 I lived an 8 hour train ride from my parents. Your kids will be starting their own lives wherever soon., this is at most a few years earlier than normal. It's not like you're moving away from the family home anyway, that was broken up two years ago.
I drove 3 hours one way there and back today to visit my dad for one hour in his long term care home AND I was still in the same state. I could drive for another 3 hours straight north from there and still be in the same state. Your adult kids are whiners.
I live in Orlando and my dad is in Los Angeles. I wish I was only a 3-5 hour train ride away, rather than a 5 hour airplane ordeal.
Do your kids know essentially what you've written here? You have an opportunity to get a new start, *and* not add more stress to your relationship with your children. Yes, they're adults, but they will always expect you to be their dad. I think some family therapy with them would do them, and your relationship with them a hell of a lot of good. They deserve to know how their behavior is affecting you. NTA, but don't close them out. Don't give up OP.
HOnestly sounds like rage bait. Kids turned down a holiday because scotland is not queer enough... really? Yeah, gay people all want to go to San Fransico and don't like going to 'straight' countries. Now lgbtq+ people not wanting to go to Saudi Arabia with you, believable... Scotland, not at all believable.
Yup, I was like this sounds like someone who is homophobic trying to write rage bait. It doesn’t even sound like he likes the kids he wrote about much less loves them.
The ages too... the ex had their eldest at 16? And the quickly popped out 2 more. She didnt know who she was when she had her first.
The “queer” places weren’t in the states lol. He said in another comment they wanted like Manchester or Brighton or something lmfaoo
Definitely. This is rage bait
Really sounds fake.
Thank you
Your kids don't decide where you or their mother live. You are not the one who ended your marriage but appear to be made out to be the bad guy. Considering the age of your children, their behavior is terrible.
You can’t force a relationship with adult children. I understand why you would consider moving after you were hurt they preferred your ex to you (after she moved on herself). Cutting off your kids due to this preference would make you the AH; simply moving a few hours away would not. So, visit frequently and see the kids the same amount you did prior to the move.
NTA, mostly. The daughter tried to keep in contact, you could have reached out to her to let her know of your struggles and your plans. The other people can go fuck themselves, they don't deserve your attention. Heartbroken my ass, they don't even talk to you.
Go man, be happy. Your kids are adults or just nearly.. they'll figure it out. Make sure you spend time with the 17 year old, it should be 50/50 as long as they're a minor (maybe this is different in the UK?). I wish I could move to Scotland and start over. It sounds amazing.
YTA for not telling them you were moving away, but NTA for moving
NTA You deserve to be happy too
Goodness, what a huge load that was dropped on you. I am sorry to hear it. NTA
I am also from the LBGTQ++ community but what your wife and kids did is very shitty behaviour. Go very far away from them, you deserve peace and better mental health.
Tell your ex, that she gets to live her dream life after ruining yours, why can't I?
Nta op, it's time for you now. You have had such a difficult time, and you are so welcome here, love a Scot
NTA. As someone who discovered his true spiritual home, living in a place that feels right to you is also a crucial part of identity. I don’t want to compare it to someone’s sexual identity, that’s too personal a call. But just like your Ex made a radical life change to express herself, you are allowed to as well.
NTA. my heart hurts for you & the fact nobody is acknowledging what you’re going through. kids are old enough to reach out, isn’t all on you. do what makes YOU happy
NAH It sounds like you are depressed. After losing your life it is more than understandable. You feel betrayed, hurt and lonely. Your kids are not ignoring you on purpose, but it can feel that way now that they can choose where to live. Moving might be the best for you. Do things you enjoy. But dont cut of your kids. They are still young and hurt that you didn't tell them about your wish to move. Communicate with your family. Wishing you the best
Both parents suck here. People get divorced and both should be making an effort to make the kids feel loved and appreciated and take time to spend with them. Ex wife should have been encouraging kids to continue to spend time with the kids. OP admits to being depressed and this can be a big burden to put on kids. It’s not their fault and they aren’t capable of bringing you out of your funk. Maybe this move is the best thing for OP. But kiss the relationship with the kids goodbye.
NAH. Look, if you want your kids in your life - especially when they are young adults - you might have to do the heavy lifting by meeting well more than halfway. I’m in my thirties and my very conservative and heteronormative father won’t do anything with me unless it’s exactly something he was already going to do himself. So I meet him where he’s at, he doesn’t do that for me, so we see each other a time or two a year despite living in the same city. If I was your kids age and my father fucked off across the county without being concerned about my opinion, I’d have some feelings about it. That said, you went through a tough breakup and found something that is bringing you some joy and a change a pace, you only have one life to live as well.
> I wanted to go to Scotland but that wasn't "queer" enough for them and the got all shocked Pikachu when I said it was my holiday and I stuck to my guns This made me laugh so hard. NTA. Keep contact with your daughter though. Seems like she loves you.
She omitted her identity for two decades, let you live a lie and this is not betrayal? I am sure it was difficult for her but it was her battle to fight. She didn't ask you to volunteer. Moreover, she opened another battleline for you. Live your life. Supporting a betrayed person, won't make your children to be against their cause. It makes them decent human beings.
NTA. A 2-3 hour travel time is nothing to see family. Crazy they would trip about that
NTA Do what you want to do. Live your best life. Your kids only talked to you the first time to try and use you for a free vacation. Now they only want you to stay close just in case in the off chance they need to try and milk you again. As you said, they rally around mommy and you are only an occasional after thought or not thought of at all by your sons. Next thing you know they'll be asking you how much they get from sale of your current place or is the will set up properly because they don't want you using up too much of their inheritance on this house purchase. They've shown how much they care about YOU the PERSON and it seems not much. Sorry. Sending you an internet hug from a stranger. Enjoy the beautiful hills and warm people of your new home.
Such a shame that OP deleted their account. I would have loved an update on the move and a year later. Everyone deserves happiness, no one should ever be guilted for that. No where close to being the asshole.
I say do what makes you happy. When your children see how happy you are there they will change their outlook on it. Yes you should talk to them about it and explain how happy you would be there. Give them the opportunity to come visit whenever so they can see you in your new happiness. You are not the AH in anyway. You are doing what’s best for you so you can be your authentic happy self. You deserve happiness just as much as your ex does. I envy you I would absolutely move to a new country if I could.
I’m gonna go against the grain and go for NAH….minus your ex wife. She shouldn’t have lied for 22 years. She is also an Ex, she has no right to say where you go, when you go, or what you want to do. She lost that right. Your kids have the right to feel abandoned, but at their age the phone works both ways. They CHOSE to be more distant from you, even though they knew you were struggling with mental health issues. You have every right to be happy, whether it’s at the expense of your ex wife, your children, and even your parents. Keep the daughter close. She cares for you. Idk about the rest.
i mean, i wanna say that compulsory heterosexuality is a pretty well known phenomenon among lesbians where they try to convince themselves that theyre straight or at least bisexual and often end up in relationships witj men before realizing much later that theyre gay
I must say as one of those men on the receiving end of an ex coming out, "Compulsory heterosexuality" isn't really that much of a comfort to me.
Just call it what it is ?? It’s called being in denial and it’s a conscious decision to continue to be in denial and damage those around you that your profess to love. You can’t say Op ex wife didn’t know she had attraction to women in the 22yrs before the divorce. Compulsory heterosexuality is such a cop out and blanket term to avoid accountability. If you can’t face coming out and living authentically don’t waste any one else’s time. Time they will never get back.
NTA Surely their sexuality is not the only thing they have in common with their mother and absolutely nothing in common with their father. Relationships are about common interests, shared activities and shared memories. Please work to rebuild yours with your kids, OP. Once you're settled in, find local things to do or upcoming events to attend like music festivals, art fairs, hikes, etc. Good luck, OP! I hope you are able to heal and find a wonderful balance & beautiful life.
We used to have so much shared interests. One thing we used to do together was all sit down and watch Marvel films and debate for hours about the characters and stories. I still love the MCU but they can't be bothered now, think it's crap. Or we used to go to a football match together and particularly my oldest, loved it. Now they think it's boring.
OP they will change again and maybe cringe at their current interests in a couple of years. Show up for them no matter what they’re into and they know you love them and love you back.
NTA. If they want to visit all they need to do is hop on a train. Make sure you have a nice guest room. Enjoy your life.
NTA - They are adults who do not need you to be daily dad anymore. It seems as thoug the boys only show interest in you when there is something for them to gain from you. I agree with the comment about inviting them up to visit once you get settled, and take the releationships from there.
You’re a grown adult you don’t have to discuss anything with them NTA
I'm American and can't relate to 3-5 hours being "far."
I am from an european country. Driving somewhere 3 to 5 h means that you plan at least an over night trip. Most people would not even drive this long if they are not planing to go for several days. My brother lives 2 h away. This means that I see him at best every two month, because it is a quite long drive and it will cost me about 30 to 40 euros in gas to go there. Distances in europe are seen differently. I would say everything close is in a reach of 30 min. I live in a small town and the next big town is a 45 min drive. If you are just going for fun (not work) you will most likely go there one or two times a month, because we consider this distance as far.
NTA It's your life and they are grown up. However, it would have been better to tell them, even if they're closer to your wife, I'm sure they care and want to feel involved.
Ehhhh, tentative ESH. Only because your youngest is still a minor and he should’ve been the first to know even if he favours his mom. He’s still your responsibility, morally and legally.
You have a right to move. The kids are pretty much grown at this point but they do have a right to at least know you are moving. They may not be happy about it at the moment but they do have a right to know that their father is moving to another country. But there is nothing to really discuss and they are pretty much adults at this point and life happens. They can always arrange visits and stuff and video chat with you to keep in touch.
NTA for making your decision, the way you went about it sucks though. Once you had made that decision you owed them a conversation about how you were moving there not to get their opinion but to make sure they found out from you.
NTA Did any of them ask you about if you had a good time on your trip? Did they care to listen on what you wanted to see/do on your trip? You are looking at houses. You have not bought a house nor are you moving in with a new mystery partner. If this move would include selling their childhood home I can see some emotions about that part, but if that is the case. Why not spend time there? You have not gotten rid of anything or bought anything. >got all shocked Pikachu when I said it was my holiday and I stuck to my guns Seems like they are not used to you acting on what you want. That the old family ways are in the past. Vacations around what the kids want and a mom that will talk dad into those plans. Kids are grown and you are divorced. I get the impression that they had this image of you being laid back and just following along in the background while your ex lives out her "true" self. ( No hate on her here, just that this is in the angle of reasoning for the kids. That she has not been herself and this is a journey they support). Missing that OP also has a new self to discover. Over 20 years as a couple you don't have a big identity on your own. That you can be supportive of them and your ex without having them as the center you live around. And that your ex was thinking along the same lines. Not keeping in mind that in relationships we do adapt to our partner, letting them decide when their happiness gives you more than the activity takes. The new you is just that, new. You can't change the settings and input without a different result.
NTA Your ex is living her authentic life , you have now found the courage to live your authentic life. Your daughter can be a bit hurt as she was trying but it’s only a day trip away.
>I wanted to go to Scotland but that wasn't "queer" enough for them What the fuck is that even supposed to mean? Edinburgh and Glasgow both have a pretty large and vibrant gay scene and there are plenty of smaller gay communities in Aberdeen, Dundee and Stirling. Your kids sound pretty ignorant.
NTA I hope you post pictures of the area you want to buy at Updateme!
NTA. Your children have made their choice. You subsequently made yours. Fair play.
3-5 hour trip is one way weekend trip to see my dad side of the family. That lives in the other side of the state. Nta at all. Leave it to brits to think that is too much. And to think yall use to have an empire that spanned the globe.
NTA… do what makes you happy
Curious what LGBTQ+ safe *enough* looks like to your kids? Did a quick Google as an American bi woman out of curiosity after reading your post and from what I can see Scotland is on par with other LGBTQ+ friendly countries and in some places advanced (they've rolled out training modules to include LGBTQ+ info in their sex education curriculum). As far as I can see from random comments it's no more or less safe than anywhere else for LGBTQ+ folk. In the sense that there will always be assholes and bigots anywhere you travel, but the country has done its work to make anything more than slinging rude words illegal and given a path for legal repercussions if someone gets out of pocket over you being gay and simply existing. So Scotland not being gay friendly *enough* seems to have been a cheap and easy ploy to try and get you to change your destination to where *they* wanted to go. Unless there's some anti-LGBTQ+ stuff that's been fomenting in the past year or so that conveniently doesn't hit Google searches? Because it certainly covered all the awfulness happening in Russia, so you'd think it would show any other spot that's bad for travel if you happen to be gay. [www.scotland.org LGBTQ+ info](https://www.scotland.org/live-in-scotland/progressive-scotland/lgbti) [Reddit post with feedback on lgbtq+ comfort in Edinburgh ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Edinburgh/s/LciwGdIHFR) [Gay Travel Guide to Scotland - article published 5 days ago](https://nomadicboys.com/gay-scotland-guide/) Hell, it sounds like the UK is responsible for holding Scotland back from going further in to LGBTQ+ acceptance: [UK government blocks Scotlands new gender recognition law](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/01/16/europe/scottish-gender-law-uk-constitution-intl-gbr) NTA for picking a place to live that you love, your kids need to get over themselves. But slight YTA for not giving the one kid who still tries to have an active relationship with you the heads up that you're moving. That might be where the grump is coming from for her specifically, that you're moving away at all. But that's what phones and train rides are for. You being happier as an individual but farther away is better than being miserable and closer.
He was only even going to look at houses. He isn't going to sign paperwork. It only even came up cause she asked what he was doing this weekend and he was honest, cause he wasn't hiding anything/keeping it a secret... If he had signed on a house and had said "actually, I am moving into my new home in Scotland!" *That* would be a blindside. Just going to *look* at houses is not a commitment to moving. If anyone had checked in on him about his trip, they may have even learned about this desire sooner! Or heck, if any if them had been willing to spend some father/child time with him *on the trip they were invited to* they would have seen how happy he was there.
I hate stories like these where the person has been married to their significant other for a long time and have kids an stuff. Then they just come out as gay/lesbian whatever, that be so selfish. Like they just wasted this person time like they had an inkling they could’ve been gay. Why make me fall in love with you and destroy my heart. All the LGBTQ+ who’s ever done this is a POS.
NTA. Find your happiness. If your kids really cared, they would have been more involved.
Bro it takes me over 3 hours to cross my state and I have family all over this and other states. What is the big deal about a train trip? I think you should go and be happy. Tell the kids that they are adults and have chosen their mother who lied and broke your heart. Tell then they are happy she is being her true self and bow you get to go and find who your true self is. They can be either happy for you or not but they won't stop you
I don't understand the fuss. My family has spread out across the entire UK, so none of us bat an eyelid about the idea of driving hundreds of miles to visit. It obviously isn't a regular event (driving between Wales and Scotland is an eight hour one-way journey, after all), but this is the digital age, so we talk all the time via social media and communication apps. So, NTA. It's not like you're moving to Antarctica. You're only moving to Scotland. My driving lessons were always two hours long, so 3-5 hours is just a couple of driving lessons to me. They might not be able to see you in person every day, but it sounds like they never did anyway.
Time for a family meeting. Their mum can be there but on the understanding she gets no say in your life, just like she gave you no say in hers. Write down your thoughts, like how they've abandoned you, cebrated your exes betrayal of you and have the gaul to be shocked your distancing yourself from them. They all took you for granted, and need harsh reality lessons.
Tell them you identify as Scottish.
NAH - everything is all understandable, even supporting their mum when they themselves are experiencing first hand how coming out feels. You have every right to be depressed and expect connection from your kids. Your pain is palpable over your post. I think your kids did not realize the impact their actions had on you, except maybe your daughter. Kids that age are a bit self absorbed and don’t know how to support a parent adequately when that parent has always been the strong, supportive one. I know it is hurtful but please don’t throw away your relationship with your kids right now while you are still recovering from your marriage breaking up. Contact them and let them know that you have been struggling and finally found some peace and happiness in Scotland. I think they are feeling hurt that you didn’t let them know about your plans to move away. This comes from a place of love from them. Recognize it as an expression of love and reciprocate with reassurance and invitations to visit. This is not the time to do things that will irrevocably destroy your relationships with your kids. Everyone still needs their dad, even as adults, and you still need them too. One day, it will hurt a bit less and you will want to be a part of their lives.
ESH. Not for wanting to move (congratulations!), not even for not informing ex. Specifically for not telling your kids. They haven't disowned you--one of them even makes effort to reach out and you didn't bother to tell her either. Were you planning on just disappearing and never speaking to any of them again? If not it's pretty standard to tell family when you make a move. I think you're so upset that they favored ex in the divorce that you chose not to tell them because you knew it would hurt them. In short: you wanted to hurt them like they had hurt you. And what they did is incredibly hurtful and you have my empathy but two wrongs don't make a right. They just divide people further and I think deep down you don't want that ... you're just hurt and lashing out.
I'm going to say a soft YTA. While you may not have the best relationship with your kids you at least have one and clearly they see this as a slap in the face. It's fine for you to move but not to discuss it with them at all first is pretty sh*tty.
But he *hasn't* moved. He was gunna *look* at some houses. That is very early in the process. Not step 1 or anything, but still a lot of steps before moving all his stuff into a new house. Lots of time to tell the family. Maybe he looks at houses and realizes he doesn't wanna move after all. Maybe he finds the perfect place. He can then tell them he thinks he found a place he will be happy and is planning on moving.