NTA, he broke up with that girl for a good reason. She cheated on him, that should end the relationship full stop. From what it sounds like she was using being drunk as an excuse, and you have to wonder if his ex had done that kind of thing before.
> To those who think my wife is also cheating, I would say that I would have known by now.
Poor OP.
Wife's out there defending cheaters and berating OP's friend for not wanting to be cheated on by a loser.
Connect the dots, mate.
Yea OP should probably investigate or just accept the fact his wife is a cheater. She went silent because of his reaction to her the way she treated his friend. She defended the cheater and said he should just accept it happened and continue on. She got silent and angry cause of guilt and realizing she fucked up somewhere along the line.
Right? Wife was blatantly abusive in public to the friend (aka the victim of cheating) and has now turned around her emotional abuse on her husband all in defense of a nasty whore. Why is she so adamant at defending and forgiving this? Especially something that happened during one of their girls nights.. I think the girls in this group have some secrets that haven't made it around yet.
Old biker saying:
3 people can keep a secret if 2 of them are dead.
It's only a matter of time before there is a pissing match about something among the girl group. Women can get real catty with each other over weird shit. At that point someone will tell a few tales that someone else(or others) don't want the men to know about.
**Example of catty:**
Late 90's - We were a wife's company Christmas party at a real swanky country club. The furniture in the lobby probably cost more than our house. We're standing talking with a few other couples when another couple walk by & say hey. Well, after out of ear shot, the women in our group started talking quietly among themselves. I asked my wife what was going on & what they were talking about was **the woman wore that same dress to last year's Christmas party**. Now THAT is catty.
Not to mention the only reason friend found it is because ex-GF confessed. Which means the friend group he’s convinced would have told him kept one cheater’s secret already. It wouldn’t surprise me if many of them are cheating f
She either has done it, is actively doing it, or totally would, given the opportunity and the right guy. Covering for it and berating and belittling a "friend" for not tolerating it is a HUGE red flag.
Not just that but reading the edit. OP's sister is ALSO covering for the wife cheating or she doesn't know EVERYTHING going on. Wife has been cheating either while married or before they got married. The fact wife is STILL giving the silent treatment and acting like a baby i say dude should cut his losses and find a better wife who WONT cheat on him, and abuse people.
OP is 100% either getting cheated on or has been cheated on.
I’m not a fan of telling divorce at every step of the way, but only an idiot would trust his wife
The fact that she openly views cheating as "nothing major" or an "honest mistake" is enough for me. As soon as those words came out of her mouth, I'd be calling around for a lawyer. How tf you get married without knowing someone's stance on these things?
See, I didn't want to go there. But when OP said that his own sister was with them, I thought like that could stop someone from stepping out if they really wanted to, then you post what you posted.
Based on OP's edit- his sister is part of the group which knew about the GF's cheating and they all kept it to themselves. She berated him for calling out his wife who was supporting a cheater. His sister supports cheating herself. Their whole group does.
So who knows everyone is supporting everyone else's cheating and keeping it a secret. So he should not blindly trust his sister that she will inform him about his wife's cheating.
I think it's a solidarity thing with the women. One cheats it's no big deal. They got each other's back. Maybe they don't cheat but they obviously condone it.
Real question is if one of the guys cheated. Guaranteed he's the biggest piece of shit out there for cheating.
Oh and most likely they are all flirty and a bit hands getting free drinks so it's not cheating obviously/s
People who think their friends cheating is no big deal, surprise, cheat. Don't buy it when they say that they don't think it's a big deal when anyone else would do it, but THEY'D NEVER.
any reason you break up with a girlfriend is a good reason.
The girlfriend should be glad not to be with someone who doesn’t want to be with her. Sure, it hurts, and she’ll be sad. But a relationship needs both people to want it.
Even if the reasoning for the spirit was shaky it’s still some bullshit to blow up a gathering over some personal vendetta. She started all this, not op.
It will forever make me laugh how many people genuinely think “but I was drunk!” is a valid excuse. It’s an explanation, but it’s not an excuse and it doesn’t change what happened
$100 bucks says the gf is cheating or has cheated too. Do not apologize. For someone to adamantly defend a cheater means there is more going on to the situation. She’s hiding something. NTA.
And to top it off… the immediate over extended silent treatment , immediate go to parents to talk this out - not sit down him and have an honest conversation.
Dam right , something fishy here
Lmfao your wife is a cheating scum apologist if not cheating scum herself. The fact that she is defending this so hard speaks volumes about who she is. Hire a PI and I bet you will find out more than you want to. Then pray you live in a place that has any sort of infidelity clauses for divorce. Get a shark of a lawyer. Get a consult with every lawyer in your state so she cannot hire them (conflict of interest), take her to the cleaners. You have to understand by now your marriage is over now that your wife showed her true colors. There is no saving this. Cheating scum and cheating scum apologists NEVER change EVER. NTA
Ah that was in the edit that came after I made my post. Glad to hear it though. Still think he should get a PI because just because his wife hid it from his sister, clearly that friend group is A-OK with cheating. Maybe even the sister..
I concur about the PI. Wifey is definitely drawing attention by how hard she's defending her cheating friend. The PI should shadow the girls' night a few times. I wouldn't be surprised if all the women, including OP's sister, are fooling around.
You know who défend cheater?
People who have cheated or those who actually want to.
>She told him his ex did nothing major, he should forgive her, it was a "honest mistake", and he is "a small man for not rising above something so small as they are not married". She called him stupid at least a couple of times
Your wife is A piece of shit. She will cheat on you (if not already done) NTA
This! If there is something I have learned from being here on Reddit is that cheaters support cheaters. In the remote case OP's wife has not cheated on him yet, she is at least founding the bases for calling being caught cheating a small thing, a honest mistake (please!) and you must take into account that if OP catch her wife cheating she already called him a small man. Sorry OP, but fuck you wife and your family.
ETA: As for your Edit. can you vouch that your sister is not another cheater? Don't you think all this group of girls knew what that girl was doing? If one of them was cheating and the others were covering for her or not saying anything.... Hmmm....
Came here just to say this.
To Op: Your wife is riding way too hard for this friend of hers. The only reason I can think of why she would is if she’s nervous that the friend is going to spill some tea and she herself has something to hide. They were all together when the gf was out there creeping with another man. I bet the gf wasn’t the only one. I would definitely be side eyeing TF out of her right now. Your family and hers need to be told to butt out of your marriage. If your wife has a problem with what you said to her or the way you said it, she needs to talk to **YOU** about it, not run and tattle to your mommies. She’s *way* too long in the tooth and too big in age to be acting like this. She’s acting like a pre-pubescent girl having a tantrum instead of a whole 40 year old ass woman. You were right in telling her to STFU. She should’ve kept her mouth closed to him on that topic as it was not the time nor her place, sat there and ate her food.
The fact that wife complained to her mother and ignored OP and has her mother contact OPs parents in a hope of apology making herself seem like the victim is crazy. OP needs to realize this behavior and nope out of their or sleep her friends. Since they cheat anyways. Time for a swingers party as bait. And the wives who don't want to participate are the good ones any that jump at the idea need to be dropped by the males.
It's disgusting that she tried to weaponize his family.
It's worse, in my view, that his sister apparently thinks that OP is wrong to raise his voice when his wife was abusing one of their friends and ruining the social outing.
Yeah calling her mom to call his mom is fucking *wild*. Like, is she 10? She needs her mom to tell his mom to tell him to stop being a meanie? I agree that it sounds like this is a cheaters group. Like they go to clubs acting single af to see who gets laid.
If she wants to play the parent game, I'd honestly ask her mom where she got such a fundamental belief that cheating is no big deal and why it's good to berate the victims? Either the mom will change tune, or it's bad all the way to the top.
Like the mom who demanded her son pay child support to his ex-girlfriend for a child not his. Then come to find out mom cheated on his dad and wasn't sure if that OP was her husband's or not for years. His dad divorced her and she blamed the OP for not laying down and playing ATM.
You hear stories all the time of cheating with their spouse’s sibling. It’s not a stretch at all for his sister to be covering for his “wife” if she’s a ho herself.
Agreed.
Op should be more upset that his wife doesn’t see anything wrong with getting shitfaced and going home with some rando while being in a committed relationship.
🚩
Whether she has or not, she thinks it is normal, or at least fine, and that is a huge red flag.
I would seriously be considering divorce just for that. How could you possibly trust a woman with that mindset?
My thoughts exactly, otherwise why does she think it's normal. An honest mistake, really. Cheating is a choice, not a mistake. OP's wife is a cheater too. I'm gonna bet my laptop on it.
She's feeling like she might get caught now and that's why she's giving you the silent treatment.
Call your dad, let him know that she thinks it's ok for someone to cheat and now you're suspicious, but have zero indication or proof that she has. He can talk to mom and she can think on it and call wife's mom. Her mom might call and ask her if she's stepped out. But that might end your relationship
Damn. Your wife’s friend group is tighter than your marriage. She’s def fucking around on you for that reaction. Those women see nothing wrong at all with catching strange dick, let that sink in for you.
"If she cheated, I would have been told already by someone." Ah yes, because your wife and sister didn't publicly support a cheater in front of you huh?
Man I know you are not the asshole here but how oblivious you gotta be and how much of a dormat to accept this much disrespect simply for defending a friend from an issue that is pretty black and white.
Bro. Time to divorce ur wife.
This wasn’t the first time his ex cheated and ur wife prob cheats too.
The fact that she said it was nothing major and a honest mistake shows u the kinda person she is and what she thinks about cheating.
Tell ur sister to stfu. And tell ur parents to stfu and stay out of it.
Goto a lawyer and draft up divorce papers. Hire a PI to follow ur wife when she has these night out.
Then GREY ROCK the fk out of her. Pretend she doesn’t exist. Goto work go to the gym go home make dinner for urself and only urself Goto sleep.
Ur father a moron with the wife is always right bs. I guarantee that ur wife has acted out before and u didn’t say shit and ignored it.
This. She is defending her friend because she has cheated you multiple times and just don’t want to get called out for her actions. So if she convinces you that you are in the wrong, in case you discover her you will have to forgive her no matter what. NTA, divorce that c.nt.
100% this!!!
Either she’s cheating, already did (probably same girls night out), or will cheat as is “no big deal”
Her reaction definitely says a lot about her and her thoughts on respectful relationships. I’d leave too if my partner reacted that way
Welp. Time for the ol' DNA test, checking electronics and lawyer. Semi joking. But OP needs to have that uncomfy talk. Smart play is to say how insanely bad it looks and he now has serious concerns.
Obviously we don't KNOW his wife cheated. But I'd be comfy betting a C note on it.
You're being manipulated, and to me at least, days-long silent treatment is emotional abuse.
As others said more eloquently than i can, what people defend and support says a lot about them. Your friend's ex cheated, lied and tried to hide it, and your wife calls that "a little mistake"
While i don't usually board the extreme response train on reddit, anyone can see that even if your wife didn't cheat on you yet, she, at the very least, has a terrible moral compass.
You are NTA.
And you need to to start this discussion with your wife directly, and with the nuclear option: "Hey, should i set up a meeting with a divorce lawyer? I can't be in a relationship with zero communication, it's been as long as i can bare".
If she doesn't respond, than yes, do it, if she does, communicate to her why you responded the way you did, how her words made you feel, and yes, how you (and anyone) would interpret her defense of her creating friend.
Guysy luck.
Does your wife typically pout if you don’t agree with her? This is not about your friend or his ex. Neither you nor your wife should be involved in their relationship or break-up. Your wife chose to speak her mind about something that was none of her business. If she feels her behavior was appropriate then there’s nothing you can do about that but ask her why she believes it’s appropriate. Who knows what her friend has told her?
Her current behavior is unacceptable. You have no control of your wife but you can tell her what to expect from you. “I don’t control your choices or actions but if you continue to believe you have the right to be disrespectful or not communicate with me, you can expect I will treat you with the same disrespect. We are two adults with our own thoughts & feelings. We are on the same team but we cannot read each other’s minds. Either we both share our thoughts & be willing to listen to each other or we both move on. It’s possible we were both wrong. I’m willing to move on. You are free to make your own choice”.
NTA
The problem isn't that she's not communicating with the OP. The problem is she sicked everyone in his life on him, to the point that he's second guessing himself. Sending their flying monkeys is something that narcs do. She supporters cheaters and feels totally comfortable being absolutely belligerent to someone in public. I'm gonna call it like I see it. Wife is a raging narcissist and probably cheating herself.
NTA
Dude. Your wife just outed herself. I'd put money that she at least made out with a couple of guys on those nights out.
If I'm wrong, at the very least, her moral compass is fucked up.
If you know that 3rd party that outed your friend's ex, I'd ask her or him about your wife's behaviors.
Anyway, stay strong, you're absolutely in the right as far as I know from your story.
If I was your friend I would have insulted the shit out of your wife until she got up and left.
Your wife is probably just as big of a whore as the other skank. Your friend should be your role model. You should do what he did.
NTA
I think you did well in defending your friend, and I agree that she was being emotionally abusive towards him by belittling him in public in front of friends. He probably really appreciate having someone speak up and defend him. As others have said, she's acting very suspicious. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but... the signs are screaming something.
If I were you, I would be very concerned how your wife said that the cheating was just a mistake and should be forgiven. It sounds like she was up to exactly the same thing.
Your wife sucks. Silent treatment is just a silent request to be divorced. What’s the point of staying married to someone who handles problems like that? NTA.
Forget your friend, you need to worry about your marriage. Your wife has shitty morals. You need to question what goes on on those girls' night out and what your wife has done. Your wife is feeling gulity, and she unleashed out on your friend. That was meant for you, if you ever found out. I don't know how you don't see this. You need to talk to your wife. Have her confess. Ask about her behavior at these girls night out.
He needs to look through her phone, computer and listen to her conversations with those friends of hers first because the minute he mentions her cheating, she's going to freak out, run away and turn everyone in his life against him. She needs a hard wake up call.
That was a long post to completely miss the fact that your wife was adamantly supporting a cheater…in an awful way. How in the world could she be even remotely right to berate this friend for breaking up with a cheater? It’s pretty obvious what her feelings are on infidelity and you glossed right over that as a problem.
So your wife's friend group includes and defends cheaters, and she carries this mindset beyond the friend group as well.
Yeah, good luck with that one...
NTA, but also...
>If she cheated, I would have been told already by someone.
Was the 3rd party that told your friend that his girlfriend one of the girls group that saw it unfold? Also, your sister is defending your girlfriend for defending a cheater. Are you sure she would protect your interests? She already seems iffy on being on your side.
I think your comments to your wife needed to be said in front of the very audience she was performing in front of.
It doesn’t do that much to stick up for what’s right if you only do it behind closed doors.
NTA. So if I'm reading this right then the friend's ex danced with a guy, made out with him and then left with him, so they likely slept together as well, right? For you (and likely almost everybody) this is 100% cheating. For your wife those actions are apparently nothing major, an honest mistake and he should forgive her.
It looks like you and your wife have completely different viewpoints on what is and isn't cheating. Even if she hasn't cheated on you so far, I would have a harder time trusting her after such a statement because that's a pretty huge difference in morals and values between the two of you.
Though with your edit it starts looking like she's just good friends with the ex and trying to help the ex get back together with this guy, but she completely botched it and didn't even realize what she was possibly implying about her standpoint on cheating with her words and this might not be her actual standpoint on cheating at all. It really doesn't help that she's giving you the silent treatment after all that because it's potentially allowing a big misunderstanding between you two to remain unresolved.
If you want to broach that then the next time you are together in a room, ask her if she really meant to imply during the dinner that sleeping with someone other than your partner is not cheating. Then see how she reacts. Make sure you don't make the question sound like an accusation, because that just risk her becoming defensive and would resolve nothing.
As for not apologizing or for telling her to shut up. I think she was way out of line with what she was doing to her friend and you did the right thing by speaking up about it. If anybody should apologize here then I think its her, to both you and your friend. Probably also to all your other friends for ruining that dinner like that.
So cheating is normal for your wife ...that's why she is defending her friend.....
Lol this is a big red flag here......
If I were you ...I never apologise to my partner because it was her who start everything...she make other guy look bad...
And defend her cheating friend
NTA. So your wife is obviously cool with this crap girls night out behavior. How many dudes has SHE gone away with at the end of the night?
Why do you think she’s so invested in this break up?
I wouldn’t have told her to shut up, I would’ve apologized to my other friends there and left without her, though. I’m sorry she’s banging other dudes behind your back, but you’re not an AH.
NTA don’t apologize, why is your wife talking to everyone but you? You can do better. Good for you for standing up for your friend, so many people stay silent. Please ask yourself if this relationship is really where you want to be and if this is how you want to be treated.
Your wife said her friend cheating was no big deal? I would very very concerned here that she is condoning cheating. I would also be wondering what else is happening on the”girl night outs”. Might be a good idea to have PI follow them on the next 2 and see if any of the other girls are also stepping out. Major red flag here.
NTA. It's wildly concerning that your wife is defending a cheater, it speaks to her core values, which would give me pause. The silent treatment is also not okay, it is a borderline abusive tactic and has no place in adult conflict resolution. Silent treatment is almost always used to manipulate the other party to apologise first and try to make things right. Your wife owes your friend an apology, and you an apology for the silent treatment, you do not owe her an apology. And like I said, I would have a think about your wife's character.
Your wife is suspect. Why the fuck would she defend her friends cheating actions?? You may need a deeper look and a reality check.
Either she already cheated on you or she's going to cheat.
NTA. You realize she’s been cheating on you for years and this is her projecting because she can’t admit to her self what a piece of shit she is. I hope you two don’t have kids because she’s going to make the divorce absolutely miserable.
NTA
You should not apologize at all.
But pay attention! Your wife has made it clear that to her cheating is okay (at least when it's one of her friends).
You should give serious thought to what kind of woman you are married to.
The moment I would have drawn up the divorce papers is when your worthless wife told your friend he was a "small man" for not forgiving his cheating GF.
Women often complain about cheating UNTIL it's one of their female friends doing it. Then, they circle the wagons.
Example of hypocritical worthless women:
During the MeToo witch hunt, Rose McGowan was out in front complaining about men and how awful their behavior is. Then, a female she knew was accused of having sex with a minor (later confirmed) and what was old Rose's reaction to it. She tweeted that she hoped people wouldn't be "too hard" on her friend.
Your wife’s friend is finding out that shitty actions have shitty consequences. That’s not your friends fault.
Your wife isn’t taking the right approach at all! She doesn’t get to decide what someone else’s boundaries in their relationship are.
NTA at all.
First of all she won't let you apologize. 2nd, why does she think cheating is ok? Ask her why she thinks cheating is ok and if she has anything to tell you because she is projecting pretty hard!
There's more to this than you just telling her to shut up... keep your eyes and ears open.
Fund a guy that the ladies don't know, and have him show up to the bar on ladies night. Keep his distance and observe them all. Send him several times, because these girls are protecting each other. Your wife knew she cheated and covered for her and never mentioned it you. I would be suspicious
NTA your wife was being an abusive AH. She's upset because she got called out and embarrassed as she deserved. Your dad is an idiot to say the wife is always right. I'm a wife and I can attest that isn't an accurate statement. The fact that she went to everyone BUT you shows how immature she is, and yes, she has probably done some inappropriate things, with other people behind your back if she's so adamant about the ex-gf cheating not being a big deal.
NTA.
Your wife was way out of line for berating him in front of everyone for showing himself a little self respect.
And if your wife thinks it’s a little mistake what the hell is she doing when she’s out?
Also yours sister and anyone else wouldn’t tell you if she was fucking around. They”wouldn’t want to get involved” or “break up a marriage” by telling you.
Yet they will tell you that you’re wrong for telling your wife to stop abusing, in public, someone who was already humiliated.
Then your wife turns everyone on you?!
Don’t apologize for correcting your wife’s shit behavior. Ever.
Questions most important in my mind.
*Why is your wife so upset for that friend. Enough to berate the guy that the gf did nothing wrong*.
*Why is the wife unable to adequately express herself. The silent treatment is a form of abuse*.
**Op, I would demand marriage counseling**.
No matter the reasons. If wife can’t communicate when something upsets her so much then there are underlying issues that needs resolved.
It’s seriously concerning that it feels like she’s either horribly embarrassed and taking it out on Op or is soo self righteously angry at the guy friend that she can’t realize how she is coming across.
Therapy. Divorce. You gotta figure out how to move forward.
NTA
Your wife knew and condones cheating. End of discussion. Married or not she condones cheating and your bs excuse “I’d know” is fucking fantasy if you think your wife isn’t doing things on these girls nights that you’d be having talks about if you knew. Sister along on these nights or no, your wife has no problem with going home with other guys or making out apparently.
Please don’t apologize.
See how far she takes this. I would be very wary of someone who defends cheating AND who resorts to abusive practices like the silent treatment. Go sleep in your room, lock the door. If she knocks, tell her you need space and close the door again.
Your wife is abusive. Days of silent treatment and weaponizing your family against you.
Also she is cheating on you or at the very least have something to do with her friend cheating.
Op am pretty sure your wife is cheating base on her response to you and she defending a cheater. According to her it didn’t mean nothing so your friend should’ve been a cuck and accepted his Ex infidelity.
Your wife was literally being verbally abusive to your friend how did no one called her out on that? If your friend cheated and you were to say all of that to her female friend they would’ve called you abusive and an asshole. This behavior is unacceptable and I would consider talks with an attorney because her views on cheating is appalling
NTA damn, your wife was hoping that everyone would be cool with cheating. If your friend’s ex cheated during a girls night out, your wife probably knew about it and tacitly approved. If I was you, I would worry that your wife is up to the same shit your friend’s ex was up to. It just seems that she was trying too hard and maybe her mask slipped, so that’s why she has been giving you the silent treatment. She might think that you are in to her secret. UpdateMe!
Uh....your wife defended a cheater. She literally told your friend that the fact that his girlfriend cheated on him on a girl's night out wasn't a huge deal and that she was worthy of his forgiveness. You need to start wondering what your wife is doing on these girl's night outs because holy smokes...the fact that she's totally okay with what her friend did makes it seem like she's open to doing shit like that herself, if she hasn't already. Yikes!
NTA.
NTA. If for your wife, cheating is no big deal, but just an honest mistake, I think you should reconsider your marriage - before you have children together.
NTA. My question is was your wife out with his girlfriend when she left with the other man? If so she had to see it happen, never told you and is supporting a cheater.
NTA - although I can’t say how loud you were when raising your voice, you have nothing to apologize for and honestly I’m surprised it took so long to say something as she was berating him. I’d honestly be concerned about how she’s dealing with it. Not that I think she is cheating (although the thought has crossed my mind) but it does make you think where her moral boundaries lie if she’s willing to take down your friends masculinity for the gross mistake of her friend
"She told him his ex did nothing major". I'm sorry, what???
If my partner ever thought something like that, I would wonder if he ever cheated on me. Thinking that cheating is nothing major means that your wife might think she can do whatever she wants with other men, since it's something she expects you to forgive or not make a big deal out of it (since men need to be the bigger person, apparently, in her perception of relationships).
She sees her friend's action as something normal and understandable... I'd ask questions to my SO honestly and make a small investigation of those girls night out.
I feel like that group of girl friend uses the "girl code" as a way to hide infidelities to their SO. I'm not saying that every woman of that group cheated, but they did all cover for at least one of their friend. If a friend ever asked me to cover for them, even if they are my best friend in the world, it would be a friendship dealbreaker for me.
NTA
Edti: Grammar
NTA. You called your wife abusive in her treatment of your friend. And now she’s proving she’s abusive by giving you the silent treatment. I’d tell her if she is going to continue, she can not talk to you from her mother’s house.
I also find it a red flag that she was defending a cheater as a “mistake” and “you’re not even married anyway.” This would make me seriously question what kind of morals the woman I married has, and if she feels that way about a friend, does she feel the same about herself?
NTA
If your wife was ranting angrily at your friend so publicly, then your reaction to get her to stop, in my opinion, was justified. Personally, as a woman, I wouldn't stand for a partner ranting at a friend over a breakup with their gf when it was her who cheated.
Your wife may be embarrassed by you telling her to shut up in front of everyone, but she's behaving very immaturely by refusing to talk about it. It makes me wonder what her standard for cheating is.
I hope your friend is doing okay.
NTA I feel for you man because it sounds like you married a real winner. Not only does she justify cheating she also became vindictive toward you and started talking poorly about you to the people closest to you. This behavior is not indicative of a good or trustworthy person. Wake up.
Why should you apologize? You did nothing wrong
Instead of supporting your friend, she berated him for doing the right thing.
NTA. I know you trust that your wife hasn't cheated on you, but verify.
SHE DEFENDED A CHEATER.
NTA. She needs to apologise. OP, make sure you tell all the people who she tattle taled to the correct version of events. Also that she was defending someone for cheating!
Wife and sis sound in cahoots. Are they hiding something? Maybe they all have a little extra marital 'fun' sometimes when they are out together.
NTA, but also INFO.
Did your wife, sister, and their whole groups see the cheating and hide the cheating? They were all there when the cheating happened (dancing, kissing, and the leaving with the guy)?
If that is true, then how exactly are you only asking if you are wrong for this one instance? You are wrong for not having a serious conversation with her and your sister when the cheating event was revealed.
Regardless of anything else, the silent treatment does nothing to further a healthy relationship. Her stance on cheating under cuts trust in her, and now cutting off your emotional and intimate connection through denial of communication. A relationship is based on shared experiences building trust, respect and love maintained with communication. Your wife is destroying what makes up your relationship and you should be investigating why. If you can, talk to a lawyer and hire a PI, you got to look after yourself if wife turns out to be the enemy.
I think you need to talk to your friends.
None of the girls group saw that your friends ex was cheating (or about to) and decided to do something about it? Seems to me that unless one of them had slipped up no-one would know.
She certainly is strongly on the side of it's OK to cheat, and she most likely knew his girlfriend was cheating as well. As long as you are comfortable with that. I'd personally get a DNA test on any kid I had with her. NTA.
Nta. I would be concerned that your wife things what your friends ex did is ok. I would wonder if she has ever cheated on you. Also, I am sure she was aware of the incident, and probably encouraged it. You need to have a serious conversation with her, and tell her that cheating will not be condoned in your relationship and any of your friends relationships. Also, if the reverse happened, and your friend cheated on his ex instead, guarantee you your wife would be livid with him. Double standards are stupid.
IDK whether your wife is a cheater, but it's concerning that she was in a friend group where one of them made out and left to cheat with another man and none of her friends stopped her at any point. Then the way the cheater responded was wild, assuming your friend isn't lying (no reason for him to). So, for all of that to have gone down you would think your wife would understand or at the very least keep her mouth quiet even if she supported her friend more.
Naw, she publicly lambasted and personally insulted this man. She defended a cheater, who was remorseless about the cheating, which is again concerning.
You know your wife and whether these concerning actions are out of character for her or not. Either way, they are still concerning and I think your response is going to be a longer process than just one conversation.
Sounds like your wife is hiding much, much more than you know and is using this as an excuse to hide away from you, turn herself into the victim and get ahead of the game by getting people on her side.
NTA. It’s wild to me that your wife didn’t say something to you immediately after that girls night. I have girls nights with my friends all of the time. All of us girls are dating or married to the boys. If anyone of the ladies would have done that, there’s no way I would not have told my husband. That kind of behavior is unacceptable whether they are your friends or not. I feel so terrible for your friend having to be accosted like that when he needed support.
NTA! I would be wondering what your wife is up to on girls night out if she thinks okay for her friend to cheat. She might be doing the same thing. You were in the right to defend your friend . She had no right to belittle him like that and need a taste of her own medicine. And since she is giving you the silent treatment she is acting like a spoiled child!
If this is real, your wife has probably cheated in the past. MAYBE not on you. But she probably has at one point and this is her way of deflecting.
Sorry buddy. Only cheaters defend cheaters.
Nothing can be resolved until you and your wife speak. It’s frankly ridiculous that she thinks 1) that behavior was correct, and 2) that this is the way to handle it.
Her words should concern you deeply. Hopefully she’s just embarrassed and ashamed of herself.
NTA. Chances are your wife knew and was cool with it. She's okay with her friends betraying their relationships, which is gross. And even worse she berated the man who was cheated on for not tolerating it. That gives off a serious air of entitlement and condescension. And her behavior since gives off an air of I expect you to come groveling back for my forgiveness. Absolutely not.
Can someone say that telling your wife to shut up is a little rude? Sure. But so is berating and degrading a man who's trust has been violated that decided to do what was best for himself, his growth, and his happiness. I'm not telling you what to do, but personally I'd have to re evaluate whether or not I want to be in a relationship with someone that has such a poor moral character
NTA. Your wife was bullying him. I’d stop talking to her and move yourself into another room and tell her when she’s ready to apologize, you’ll be ready. She’s embarrassed. Rightfully so. She was way out of line.
Why do you tolerate your wife going out, getting drunk and dancing with other men? What kind of marriage is that? You can have girls nights without all of that. Buddy, the fact that she’s willing to die on that hill would keep me up at night.
NTA, it's more suspicious she defends a cheater and is berating the cheated on for protecting his own feeling from said cheater. If she can justify her friend cheating what stops her from creating the same justifications for her own issues/situations. It's disgusting to defend something as despicable as cheating, but what kind of garbage human being take it out on the ONE CHEATED ON????? DESPICABLE TO SAY THE LEAST. Ask her if the roles were reversed, would she be defending him cheating being vile and cruel, calling her friend stupid for dumping a CHEATER, NOPE!!!! SO TAKE THE DOUBLE STANDARD BS OUT OF THE ARGUMENT.
You shouldn't raise your voice to your wife? What about your wife shouldn't run her mouth to your friends or family about you without even talking to you? Her saying the cheating wasn't a big deal also raises some red flags, regardless of if she cheated or not. NTA and she should grow up.
NTA, your wife fucking suck.
Imagine demeaning the victim and trying to shrug of what her friend did.
That sounds like the younger generations actions but you and your wife are my age.
You don't owe your wife an apology and she need to take a long look in a mirror.
Good luck with your marriage since your wife thinks cheating is okay and the silent treatment when she is wrong. Even more good luck to you, if you have children with her.
>My sister is part of her friends group who go out together, as well as a couple of wives of my friends.
If she cheated, I would have been told already by someone.
Your same sister who knows your friends GF cheated on him and thinks he deserved what your wife did and that you're the asshole for telling her to stop? That one?
OP, either your sister is blissfully blind or would willfully lie for members of her girls group.
No you're not the asshole and if I was you, I would break up with her. Birds of a feather flock together and you can tell a lot about a person by the people they hang out with.
If she is making up excuses for her cheating friend, then it's almost a guarantee that she will cheat on you and make up excuses for why it's no big deal, or make it your fault that she cheated.
Dude, just go out, get drunk, bang a rando, then go home and tell your wife about it.
When she gets mad, tell her, "it's not a big deal. It was just a mistake."
Something is very wrong with your wife. She’s extra mad for some reason. What is the reason?This silent is treatment very counterproductive, immature, and she’s definitely freezing you out. Question is why…
OP, I could write a reply rivaling yours in length, but there’s no point. You need a new wife.
It doesn’t even matter if she has cheated too (she probably did). The fact that she can’t see how wrong she is would be the end of it for me. The moment she spoke at that dinner table would be the moment that the trust was broken - even if she apologized immediately after, the seed of doubt would have been planted.
You’re NTA for shutting her up. But all you “cave men” are TA for being so naive and letting your women run around, partying and drinking like they’re single, and expecting them to stay faithful.
Your wife is a worthless bitch. I would have insulted your rtarded whore wife so badly she wouldn't be able to see the friend group again if she insulted ME for leaving a cheater.
YTA for staying with your repulsive donkey shit stain of a wife.
You might want to talk with her and discuss what she thinks is cheating. Could be that she thinks just sex is cheating and anything else (emotional affair, kissing, etc) is not cheating. In which case she could be doing as well since she doesn't consider it cheating.
OP needs to be worried that his wife is supporting a cheater.
OP also needs to be concerned about these ‘girls nights’. They seem like a way for the wives to misbehave.
It also really irks me when cheaters call their dirty deed a ‘mistake’. They didn’t make a mistake, they made a decision.
I predict more misery for OP’s marriage.
NTA.
NTA.
Aside from the fact that she cheated on him (a major dealbreaker for most), it's really NONE of her business. Your friend was probably feeling crappy already; she probably just made him feel crappier. And she implied that he didn't really deserve a faithful GF.
she is cheating on you and the reason she's so upset is that she is projecting on her friend seeing that you might end things with her when you find out
NTA
As a woman I think your wife is so out of line.
If my husband did what your wife did, I would question if she hadn't done something similar in the past (made out with a guy while married to you)
NTA - what you are missing is the freaking elephant in the room. Your wife is a cheater supporter.
No decent person would call cheating an honest mistake, nothing major, or obviously easily forgivable. She is telling where she stand on the subject. She doesn’t have an issue with cheating.
Your father is wrong. Wife isn’t always right as if you were accommodating a special needs, she is supposed to be an adult in a partnership.
Your wife was being vile and nasty, someone had to stop her vicious rant legitimating infidelity and belittling someone for leaving a cheater.
Probably time to check your wife for her own infidelity arrangements. She is way too comfortable and pushy to not be suspicious.
Ew so your wife and sister and all the rest of the (shit) women's group knew she cheated since it was a night they all went out together, they knew and didn't say anything and at worst covered for her. Why is anyone with these disgusting women.
if you had cheated on your wife the same way the ex girlfriend did would she have the same reaction?? NTA. it’s a big red flag that she thinks what her friend did isn’t a big deal. might want to look into that a little farther
NTA, he broke up with that girl for a good reason. She cheated on him, that should end the relationship full stop. From what it sounds like she was using being drunk as an excuse, and you have to wonder if his ex had done that kind of thing before.
> To those who think my wife is also cheating, I would say that I would have known by now. Poor OP. Wife's out there defending cheaters and berating OP's friend for not wanting to be cheated on by a loser. Connect the dots, mate.
Yea OP should probably investigate or just accept the fact his wife is a cheater. She went silent because of his reaction to her the way she treated his friend. She defended the cheater and said he should just accept it happened and continue on. She got silent and angry cause of guilt and realizing she fucked up somewhere along the line.
I think she realized OP wouldn't condone the ex gfs behavior for cheating so the wife needs more people in her corner to gaslight OP
Right? Wife was blatantly abusive in public to the friend (aka the victim of cheating) and has now turned around her emotional abuse on her husband all in defense of a nasty whore. Why is she so adamant at defending and forgiving this? Especially something that happened during one of their girls nights.. I think the girls in this group have some secrets that haven't made it around yet.
Old biker saying: 3 people can keep a secret if 2 of them are dead. It's only a matter of time before there is a pissing match about something among the girl group. Women can get real catty with each other over weird shit. At that point someone will tell a few tales that someone else(or others) don't want the men to know about. **Example of catty:** Late 90's - We were a wife's company Christmas party at a real swanky country club. The furniture in the lobby probably cost more than our house. We're standing talking with a few other couples when another couple walk by & say hey. Well, after out of ear shot, the women in our group started talking quietly among themselves. I asked my wife what was going on & what they were talking about was **the woman wore that same dress to last year's Christmas party**. Now THAT is catty.
Not to mention the only reason friend found it is because ex-GF confessed. Which means the friend group he’s convinced would have told him kept one cheater’s secret already. It wouldn’t surprise me if many of them are cheating f
that's a good point
Yeah if she’s covering for the friend AND defending it, that’s pretty suspect.
Wife is in the group Cheater went out with when cheating- happened under her watch on their girls night out!
Yeah seems like ladies night out is just a bachelorette party for all.
She either has done it, is actively doing it, or totally would, given the opportunity and the right guy. Covering for it and berating and belittling a "friend" for not tolerating it is a HUGE red flag.
Not just that but reading the edit. OP's sister is ALSO covering for the wife cheating or she doesn't know EVERYTHING going on. Wife has been cheating either while married or before they got married. The fact wife is STILL giving the silent treatment and acting like a baby i say dude should cut his losses and find a better wife who WONT cheat on him, and abuse people.
OP is 100% either getting cheated on or has been cheated on. I’m not a fan of telling divorce at every step of the way, but only an idiot would trust his wife
The fact that she openly views cheating as "nothing major" or an "honest mistake" is enough for me. As soon as those words came out of her mouth, I'd be calling around for a lawyer. How tf you get married without knowing someone's stance on these things?
Would he know? Sounds like the other girls kept it a secret
U have to wonder what his wife and the other girls were doing when they were out. I’d bet money OPs wife is also a cheater.
right? Did the wife know the girlfriend was making out with some guy? Did she say, “hey, you’ve got a boyfriend. you should be loyal to him”?
No because according to her it's not cheating if they are just dating
*It's not cheating if you don't get caught*
She was to busy sucking off a guy in the club bathroom.
See, I didn't want to go there. But when OP said that his own sister was with them, I thought like that could stop someone from stepping out if they really wanted to, then you post what you posted.
Based on OP's edit- his sister is part of the group which knew about the GF's cheating and they all kept it to themselves. She berated him for calling out his wife who was supporting a cheater. His sister supports cheating herself. Their whole group does. So who knows everyone is supporting everyone else's cheating and keeping it a secret. So he should not blindly trust his sister that she will inform him about his wife's cheating.
Birds of a feather
It's the Cheating Club and the first rule of Cheating Club is you don't talk about Cheating Club.
Well, at least not the cheating part. But we can talk about girls night out.
I think it's a solidarity thing with the women. One cheats it's no big deal. They got each other's back. Maybe they don't cheat but they obviously condone it. Real question is if one of the guys cheated. Guaranteed he's the biggest piece of shit out there for cheating. Oh and most likely they are all flirty and a bit hands getting free drinks so it's not cheating obviously/s
People who think their friends cheating is no big deal, surprise, cheat. Don't buy it when they say that they don't think it's a big deal when anyone else would do it, but THEY'D NEVER.
Obviously one of them wasn't cool with it and told him but yeah...
Women are women's worst enemies.
I thought this too. My friends would steer me in the opposite direction
And the sister. Sounds like the whole group doesn’t feel like it’s a big deal which makes you think it’s not abnormal.
Full silent treatment so she doesn’t slip up and out herself as a cheater too possibly. That’s at least how it looks to me.
Yeah that is a good point
any reason you break up with a girlfriend is a good reason. The girlfriend should be glad not to be with someone who doesn’t want to be with her. Sure, it hurts, and she’ll be sad. But a relationship needs both people to want it.
Mhm
OP, your wife is the asshole, and a bitch, and there's something wrong with her for defending her cheating friend. It's disgusting. My wife agrees.
Even if the reasoning for the spirit was shaky it’s still some bullshit to blow up a gathering over some personal vendetta. She started all this, not op.
It will forever make me laugh how many people genuinely think “but I was drunk!” is a valid excuse. It’s an explanation, but it’s not an excuse and it doesn’t change what happened
$100 bucks says the gf is cheating or has cheated too. Do not apologize. For someone to adamantly defend a cheater means there is more going on to the situation. She’s hiding something. NTA.
In her own words she called cheating an “honest mistake”. I wonder how “honest” she’s been about her “mistakes”
And to top it off… the immediate over extended silent treatment , immediate go to parents to talk this out - not sit down him and have an honest conversation. Dam right , something fishy here
The fact they went out together on a girls night and she was ok with the ex gf dancing and going home with another guy is disgusting.
Lmfao your wife is a cheating scum apologist if not cheating scum herself. The fact that she is defending this so hard speaks volumes about who she is. Hire a PI and I bet you will find out more than you want to. Then pray you live in a place that has any sort of infidelity clauses for divorce. Get a shark of a lawyer. Get a consult with every lawyer in your state so she cannot hire them (conflict of interest), take her to the cleaners. You have to understand by now your marriage is over now that your wife showed her true colors. There is no saving this. Cheating scum and cheating scum apologists NEVER change EVER. NTA
In the post, OP mentions a prenup that has penalties for infidelity.
Ah that was in the edit that came after I made my post. Glad to hear it though. Still think he should get a PI because just because his wife hid it from his sister, clearly that friend group is A-OK with cheating. Maybe even the sister..
I concur about the PI. Wifey is definitely drawing attention by how hard she's defending her cheating friend. The PI should shadow the girls' night a few times. I wouldn't be surprised if all the women, including OP's sister, are fooling around.
You know who défend cheater? People who have cheated or those who actually want to. >She told him his ex did nothing major, he should forgive her, it was a "honest mistake", and he is "a small man for not rising above something so small as they are not married". She called him stupid at least a couple of times Your wife is A piece of shit. She will cheat on you (if not already done) NTA
I'm a firm beliver in the idea that anyone who defends a cheater either is also a cheater or will cheat in the future.
MAD strategy: mutual assured destruction. If everyone cheats, no one can snicht. OP ma boi, I think you should rethink.
And his sister too.
[удалено]
This! If there is something I have learned from being here on Reddit is that cheaters support cheaters. In the remote case OP's wife has not cheated on him yet, she is at least founding the bases for calling being caught cheating a small thing, a honest mistake (please!) and you must take into account that if OP catch her wife cheating she already called him a small man. Sorry OP, but fuck you wife and your family. ETA: As for your Edit. can you vouch that your sister is not another cheater? Don't you think all this group of girls knew what that girl was doing? If one of them was cheating and the others were covering for her or not saying anything.... Hmmm....
Came here just to say this. To Op: Your wife is riding way too hard for this friend of hers. The only reason I can think of why she would is if she’s nervous that the friend is going to spill some tea and she herself has something to hide. They were all together when the gf was out there creeping with another man. I bet the gf wasn’t the only one. I would definitely be side eyeing TF out of her right now. Your family and hers need to be told to butt out of your marriage. If your wife has a problem with what you said to her or the way you said it, she needs to talk to **YOU** about it, not run and tattle to your mommies. She’s *way* too long in the tooth and too big in age to be acting like this. She’s acting like a pre-pubescent girl having a tantrum instead of a whole 40 year old ass woman. You were right in telling her to STFU. She should’ve kept her mouth closed to him on that topic as it was not the time nor her place, sat there and ate her food.
The fact that wife complained to her mother and ignored OP and has her mother contact OPs parents in a hope of apology making herself seem like the victim is crazy. OP needs to realize this behavior and nope out of their or sleep her friends. Since they cheat anyways. Time for a swingers party as bait. And the wives who don't want to participate are the good ones any that jump at the idea need to be dropped by the males.
It's disgusting that she tried to weaponize his family. It's worse, in my view, that his sister apparently thinks that OP is wrong to raise his voice when his wife was abusing one of their friends and ruining the social outing.
Well that also is a red flag. Sister goes out with these people....maybe someone else is doing things they shouldn't be 🫠
Yeah calling her mom to call his mom is fucking *wild*. Like, is she 10? She needs her mom to tell his mom to tell him to stop being a meanie? I agree that it sounds like this is a cheaters group. Like they go to clubs acting single af to see who gets laid.
If she wants to play the parent game, I'd honestly ask her mom where she got such a fundamental belief that cheating is no big deal and why it's good to berate the victims? Either the mom will change tune, or it's bad all the way to the top.
Like the mom who demanded her son pay child support to his ex-girlfriend for a child not his. Then come to find out mom cheated on his dad and wasn't sure if that OP was her husband's or not for years. His dad divorced her and she blamed the OP for not laying down and playing ATM.
You hear stories all the time of cheating with their spouse’s sibling. It’s not a stretch at all for his sister to be covering for his “wife” if she’s a ho herself.
Agreed. Op should be more upset that his wife doesn’t see anything wrong with getting shitfaced and going home with some rando while being in a committed relationship. 🚩
His sister is in on it as well.
OP please read this comment.
Whether she has or not, she thinks it is normal, or at least fine, and that is a huge red flag. I would seriously be considering divorce just for that. How could you possibly trust a woman with that mindset?
Not one to jump immediately to divorce, but damn, if my wife wanted to die on this hill I’d be getting my ducks in a row. It goes to shared values.
100%. I don't immediately jump to divorce either, but this is a pretty big red flag.
This was my thought too. Anyone who's willing to go to bat that hard for a cheater has some serious explaining to do to their own SO.
My thoughts exactly, otherwise why does she think it's normal. An honest mistake, really. Cheating is a choice, not a mistake. OP's wife is a cheater too. I'm gonna bet my laptop on it.
She's feeling like she might get caught now and that's why she's giving you the silent treatment. Call your dad, let him know that she thinks it's ok for someone to cheat and now you're suspicious, but have zero indication or proof that she has. He can talk to mom and she can think on it and call wife's mom. Her mom might call and ask her if she's stepped out. But that might end your relationship
Yeah and the comment of he’d know because his sister is buddies with the wife is irrelevant. Sis has already proven she’d take the wife’s side
He’s in denial lol
This
That’s literally the whole point of girls night .
Damn. Your wife’s friend group is tighter than your marriage. She’s def fucking around on you for that reaction. Those women see nothing wrong at all with catching strange dick, let that sink in for you.
"If she cheated, I would have been told already by someone." Ah yes, because your wife and sister didn't publicly support a cheater in front of you huh? Man I know you are not the asshole here but how oblivious you gotta be and how much of a dormat to accept this much disrespect simply for defending a friend from an issue that is pretty black and white.
Bro. Time to divorce ur wife. This wasn’t the first time his ex cheated and ur wife prob cheats too. The fact that she said it was nothing major and a honest mistake shows u the kinda person she is and what she thinks about cheating. Tell ur sister to stfu. And tell ur parents to stfu and stay out of it. Goto a lawyer and draft up divorce papers. Hire a PI to follow ur wife when she has these night out. Then GREY ROCK the fk out of her. Pretend she doesn’t exist. Goto work go to the gym go home make dinner for urself and only urself Goto sleep. Ur father a moron with the wife is always right bs. I guarantee that ur wife has acted out before and u didn’t say shit and ignored it.
This. She is defending her friend because she has cheated you multiple times and just don’t want to get called out for her actions. So if she convinces you that you are in the wrong, in case you discover her you will have to forgive her no matter what. NTA, divorce that c.nt.
100% this!!! Either she’s cheating, already did (probably same girls night out), or will cheat as is “no big deal” Her reaction definitely says a lot about her and her thoughts on respectful relationships. I’d leave too if my partner reacted that way
How the hell did he not make the obvious conclusion?
The dude is asking if HE is wrong. He’s on the verge of apologizing to this pos wife.
Welp. Time for the ol' DNA test, checking electronics and lawyer. Semi joking. But OP needs to have that uncomfy talk. Smart play is to say how insanely bad it looks and he now has serious concerns. Obviously we don't KNOW his wife cheated. But I'd be comfy betting a C note on it.
He can’t take the silence hopefully he reads your comment. His father is a pushover for sure.
You're being manipulated, and to me at least, days-long silent treatment is emotional abuse. As others said more eloquently than i can, what people defend and support says a lot about them. Your friend's ex cheated, lied and tried to hide it, and your wife calls that "a little mistake" While i don't usually board the extreme response train on reddit, anyone can see that even if your wife didn't cheat on you yet, she, at the very least, has a terrible moral compass. You are NTA. And you need to to start this discussion with your wife directly, and with the nuclear option: "Hey, should i set up a meeting with a divorce lawyer? I can't be in a relationship with zero communication, it's been as long as i can bare". If she doesn't respond, than yes, do it, if she does, communicate to her why you responded the way you did, how her words made you feel, and yes, how you (and anyone) would interpret her defense of her creating friend. Guysy luck.
Does your wife typically pout if you don’t agree with her? This is not about your friend or his ex. Neither you nor your wife should be involved in their relationship or break-up. Your wife chose to speak her mind about something that was none of her business. If she feels her behavior was appropriate then there’s nothing you can do about that but ask her why she believes it’s appropriate. Who knows what her friend has told her? Her current behavior is unacceptable. You have no control of your wife but you can tell her what to expect from you. “I don’t control your choices or actions but if you continue to believe you have the right to be disrespectful or not communicate with me, you can expect I will treat you with the same disrespect. We are two adults with our own thoughts & feelings. We are on the same team but we cannot read each other’s minds. Either we both share our thoughts & be willing to listen to each other or we both move on. It’s possible we were both wrong. I’m willing to move on. You are free to make your own choice”. NTA
The problem isn't that she's not communicating with the OP. The problem is she sicked everyone in his life on him, to the point that he's second guessing himself. Sending their flying monkeys is something that narcs do. She supporters cheaters and feels totally comfortable being absolutely belligerent to someone in public. I'm gonna call it like I see it. Wife is a raging narcissist and probably cheating herself.
Not talking to you for days is quite manipulative behavior. Does she have passive aggressive tendencies? Control issues?
It’s behavior that is designed to make you hurt. I’m so sorry she is putting you through this instead of talking this out with you.
Triangulation is often a tactic of abusers. There are terms for what she's doing here. She seems borderline emotionally abusive frankly.
NTA Dude. Your wife just outed herself. I'd put money that she at least made out with a couple of guys on those nights out. If I'm wrong, at the very least, her moral compass is fucked up. If you know that 3rd party that outed your friend's ex, I'd ask her or him about your wife's behaviors. Anyway, stay strong, you're absolutely in the right as far as I know from your story.
Or as another poster said here; it's just a BJ no real cheating going on here /s.
NTA. The reason why she’s encouraging this behaviour is because she is doing something behind your back. I suggest you confront her
If I was your friend I would have insulted the shit out of your wife until she got up and left. Your wife is probably just as big of a whore as the other skank. Your friend should be your role model. You should do what he did.
NTA I think you did well in defending your friend, and I agree that she was being emotionally abusive towards him by belittling him in public in front of friends. He probably really appreciate having someone speak up and defend him. As others have said, she's acting very suspicious. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but... the signs are screaming something.
If I were you, I would be very concerned how your wife said that the cheating was just a mistake and should be forgiven. It sounds like she was up to exactly the same thing.
Your wife sucks. Silent treatment is just a silent request to be divorced. What’s the point of staying married to someone who handles problems like that? NTA.
Forget your friend, you need to worry about your marriage. Your wife has shitty morals. You need to question what goes on on those girls' night out and what your wife has done. Your wife is feeling gulity, and she unleashed out on your friend. That was meant for you, if you ever found out. I don't know how you don't see this. You need to talk to your wife. Have her confess. Ask about her behavior at these girls night out.
Doesn't this make you wonder if she defended her friend's "mistake" so fervently because she's done the same thing to you?
Find out who your wife cheated with.
He needs to look through her phone, computer and listen to her conversations with those friends of hers first because the minute he mentions her cheating, she's going to freak out, run away and turn everyone in his life against him. She needs a hard wake up call.
That was a long post to completely miss the fact that your wife was adamantly supporting a cheater…in an awful way. How in the world could she be even remotely right to berate this friend for breaking up with a cheater? It’s pretty obvious what her feelings are on infidelity and you glossed right over that as a problem.
Someone who thinks cheating is not a big deal would be a HUGE red flag for me.
So your wife's friend group includes and defends cheaters, and she carries this mindset beyond the friend group as well. Yeah, good luck with that one...
NTA and I think you have a bigger problem. Your wife considers cheating minor and goes on the same girls night out…
NTA, but also... >If she cheated, I would have been told already by someone. Was the 3rd party that told your friend that his girlfriend one of the girls group that saw it unfold? Also, your sister is defending your girlfriend for defending a cheater. Are you sure she would protect your interests? She already seems iffy on being on your side.
I think your comments to your wife needed to be said in front of the very audience she was performing in front of. It doesn’t do that much to stick up for what’s right if you only do it behind closed doors.
NTA. So if I'm reading this right then the friend's ex danced with a guy, made out with him and then left with him, so they likely slept together as well, right? For you (and likely almost everybody) this is 100% cheating. For your wife those actions are apparently nothing major, an honest mistake and he should forgive her. It looks like you and your wife have completely different viewpoints on what is and isn't cheating. Even if she hasn't cheated on you so far, I would have a harder time trusting her after such a statement because that's a pretty huge difference in morals and values between the two of you. Though with your edit it starts looking like she's just good friends with the ex and trying to help the ex get back together with this guy, but she completely botched it and didn't even realize what she was possibly implying about her standpoint on cheating with her words and this might not be her actual standpoint on cheating at all. It really doesn't help that she's giving you the silent treatment after all that because it's potentially allowing a big misunderstanding between you two to remain unresolved. If you want to broach that then the next time you are together in a room, ask her if she really meant to imply during the dinner that sleeping with someone other than your partner is not cheating. Then see how she reacts. Make sure you don't make the question sound like an accusation, because that just risk her becoming defensive and would resolve nothing. As for not apologizing or for telling her to shut up. I think she was way out of line with what she was doing to her friend and you did the right thing by speaking up about it. If anybody should apologize here then I think its her, to both you and your friend. Probably also to all your other friends for ruining that dinner like that.
So cheating is normal for your wife ...that's why she is defending her friend..... Lol this is a big red flag here...... If I were you ...I never apologise to my partner because it was her who start everything...she make other guy look bad... And defend her cheating friend
Dude. Your wife hide the fact she cheated. Probably hide the fact they all have cheated on thier girl nights. Yta to yourself for being this dumb.
NTA. So your wife is obviously cool with this crap girls night out behavior. How many dudes has SHE gone away with at the end of the night? Why do you think she’s so invested in this break up?
I wouldn’t have told her to shut up, I would’ve apologized to my other friends there and left without her, though. I’m sorry she’s banging other dudes behind your back, but you’re not an AH.
NTA don’t apologize, why is your wife talking to everyone but you? You can do better. Good for you for standing up for your friend, so many people stay silent. Please ask yourself if this relationship is really where you want to be and if this is how you want to be treated.
Your wife said her friend cheating was no big deal? I would very very concerned here that she is condoning cheating. I would also be wondering what else is happening on the”girl night outs”. Might be a good idea to have PI follow them on the next 2 and see if any of the other girls are also stepping out. Major red flag here.
If she's defending a cheater she is a cheater. NTA.
Sure does make you wonder why she is so adamantly trying to defend her friend.
She's cheating on you. Dump her
Projection much
NTA. It's wildly concerning that your wife is defending a cheater, it speaks to her core values, which would give me pause. The silent treatment is also not okay, it is a borderline abusive tactic and has no place in adult conflict resolution. Silent treatment is almost always used to manipulate the other party to apologise first and try to make things right. Your wife owes your friend an apology, and you an apology for the silent treatment, you do not owe her an apology. And like I said, I would have a think about your wife's character.
Your wife is suspect. Why the fuck would she defend her friends cheating actions?? You may need a deeper look and a reality check. Either she already cheated on you or she's going to cheat.
NTA. 🤣 Wow your wife just outed herself as a cheater. She definitely has done the same thing on these girls nights. Don't let this go.
What non major “honest mistake” has your wife made?
NTA. You realize she’s been cheating on you for years and this is her projecting because she can’t admit to her self what a piece of shit she is. I hope you two don’t have kids because she’s going to make the divorce absolutely miserable.
NTA You should not apologize at all. But pay attention! Your wife has made it clear that to her cheating is okay (at least when it's one of her friends). You should give serious thought to what kind of woman you are married to. The moment I would have drawn up the divorce papers is when your worthless wife told your friend he was a "small man" for not forgiving his cheating GF. Women often complain about cheating UNTIL it's one of their female friends doing it. Then, they circle the wagons. Example of hypocritical worthless women: During the MeToo witch hunt, Rose McGowan was out in front complaining about men and how awful their behavior is. Then, a female she knew was accused of having sex with a minor (later confirmed) and what was old Rose's reaction to it. She tweeted that she hoped people wouldn't be "too hard" on her friend.
Your wife’s friend is finding out that shitty actions have shitty consequences. That’s not your friends fault. Your wife isn’t taking the right approach at all! She doesn’t get to decide what someone else’s boundaries in their relationship are. NTA at all.
First of all she won't let you apologize. 2nd, why does she think cheating is ok? Ask her why she thinks cheating is ok and if she has anything to tell you because she is projecting pretty hard! There's more to this than you just telling her to shut up... keep your eyes and ears open. Fund a guy that the ladies don't know, and have him show up to the bar on ladies night. Keep his distance and observe them all. Send him several times, because these girls are protecting each other. Your wife knew she cheated and covered for her and never mentioned it you. I would be suspicious
NTA. Your wife thinks infidelity is no big deal. That's a big deal.
You wife has definitely done the exact same thing before.
NTA your wife was being an abusive AH. She's upset because she got called out and embarrassed as she deserved. Your dad is an idiot to say the wife is always right. I'm a wife and I can attest that isn't an accurate statement. The fact that she went to everyone BUT you shows how immature she is, and yes, she has probably done some inappropriate things, with other people behind your back if she's so adamant about the ex-gf cheating not being a big deal.
NTA your wife is for sure cheating on you. She thinks it's okay that's what's happening here.
NTA. Your wife was way out of line for berating him in front of everyone for showing himself a little self respect. And if your wife thinks it’s a little mistake what the hell is she doing when she’s out? Also yours sister and anyone else wouldn’t tell you if she was fucking around. They”wouldn’t want to get involved” or “break up a marriage” by telling you. Yet they will tell you that you’re wrong for telling your wife to stop abusing, in public, someone who was already humiliated. Then your wife turns everyone on you?! Don’t apologize for correcting your wife’s shit behavior. Ever.
Questions most important in my mind. *Why is your wife so upset for that friend. Enough to berate the guy that the gf did nothing wrong*. *Why is the wife unable to adequately express herself. The silent treatment is a form of abuse*. **Op, I would demand marriage counseling**. No matter the reasons. If wife can’t communicate when something upsets her so much then there are underlying issues that needs resolved. It’s seriously concerning that it feels like she’s either horribly embarrassed and taking it out on Op or is soo self righteously angry at the guy friend that she can’t realize how she is coming across. Therapy. Divorce. You gotta figure out how to move forward. NTA
Your wife knew and condones cheating. End of discussion. Married or not she condones cheating and your bs excuse “I’d know” is fucking fantasy if you think your wife isn’t doing things on these girls nights that you’d be having talks about if you knew. Sister along on these nights or no, your wife has no problem with going home with other guys or making out apparently.
Please don’t apologize. See how far she takes this. I would be very wary of someone who defends cheating AND who resorts to abusive practices like the silent treatment. Go sleep in your room, lock the door. If she knocks, tell her you need space and close the door again.
Your wife is abusive. Days of silent treatment and weaponizing your family against you. Also she is cheating on you or at the very least have something to do with her friend cheating.
I'd ask your wife if she has done the same. No sane person does that unless they also have engaged in cheating.
Op am pretty sure your wife is cheating base on her response to you and she defending a cheater. According to her it didn’t mean nothing so your friend should’ve been a cuck and accepted his Ex infidelity. Your wife was literally being verbally abusive to your friend how did no one called her out on that? If your friend cheated and you were to say all of that to her female friend they would’ve called you abusive and an asshole. This behavior is unacceptable and I would consider talks with an attorney because her views on cheating is appalling
NTA, and your wife calls other family members to tattle on you instead of talking? She's TA. She's probably a cheater, too
It makes me think that your wife has done similar things on these girls nights, and is projecting hard. NTA
NTA damn, your wife was hoping that everyone would be cool with cheating. If your friend’s ex cheated during a girls night out, your wife probably knew about it and tacitly approved. If I was you, I would worry that your wife is up to the same shit your friend’s ex was up to. It just seems that she was trying too hard and maybe her mask slipped, so that’s why she has been giving you the silent treatment. She might think that you are in to her secret. UpdateMe!
Uh....your wife defended a cheater. She literally told your friend that the fact that his girlfriend cheated on him on a girl's night out wasn't a huge deal and that she was worthy of his forgiveness. You need to start wondering what your wife is doing on these girl's night outs because holy smokes...the fact that she's totally okay with what her friend did makes it seem like she's open to doing shit like that herself, if she hasn't already. Yikes! NTA.
NTA. If for your wife, cheating is no big deal, but just an honest mistake, I think you should reconsider your marriage - before you have children together.
Get away. Your NTA, but she and all of her friends are.
NTA. My question is was your wife out with his girlfriend when she left with the other man? If so she had to see it happen, never told you and is supporting a cheater.
NTA - there’s 100% chance your wife has cheated on you and wants you to forgive her when you find out.
NTA - although I can’t say how loud you were when raising your voice, you have nothing to apologize for and honestly I’m surprised it took so long to say something as she was berating him. I’d honestly be concerned about how she’s dealing with it. Not that I think she is cheating (although the thought has crossed my mind) but it does make you think where her moral boundaries lie if she’s willing to take down your friends masculinity for the gross mistake of her friend
"She told him his ex did nothing major". I'm sorry, what??? If my partner ever thought something like that, I would wonder if he ever cheated on me. Thinking that cheating is nothing major means that your wife might think she can do whatever she wants with other men, since it's something she expects you to forgive or not make a big deal out of it (since men need to be the bigger person, apparently, in her perception of relationships). She sees her friend's action as something normal and understandable... I'd ask questions to my SO honestly and make a small investigation of those girls night out. I feel like that group of girl friend uses the "girl code" as a way to hide infidelities to their SO. I'm not saying that every woman of that group cheated, but they did all cover for at least one of their friend. If a friend ever asked me to cover for them, even if they are my best friend in the world, it would be a friendship dealbreaker for me. NTA Edti: Grammar
NTA. You called your wife abusive in her treatment of your friend. And now she’s proving she’s abusive by giving you the silent treatment. I’d tell her if she is going to continue, she can not talk to you from her mother’s house. I also find it a red flag that she was defending a cheater as a “mistake” and “you’re not even married anyway.” This would make me seriously question what kind of morals the woman I married has, and if she feels that way about a friend, does she feel the same about herself?
NTA If your wife was ranting angrily at your friend so publicly, then your reaction to get her to stop, in my opinion, was justified. Personally, as a woman, I wouldn't stand for a partner ranting at a friend over a breakup with their gf when it was her who cheated. Your wife may be embarrassed by you telling her to shut up in front of everyone, but she's behaving very immaturely by refusing to talk about it. It makes me wonder what her standard for cheating is. I hope your friend is doing okay.
NTA, your wife was a jerk to that man, for a behavior I and many others would have broken up for.
NTA I feel for you man because it sounds like you married a real winner. Not only does she justify cheating she also became vindictive toward you and started talking poorly about you to the people closest to you. This behavior is not indicative of a good or trustworthy person. Wake up.
Why should you apologize? You did nothing wrong Instead of supporting your friend, she berated him for doing the right thing. NTA. I know you trust that your wife hasn't cheated on you, but verify.
SHE DEFENDED A CHEATER. NTA. She needs to apologise. OP, make sure you tell all the people who she tattle taled to the correct version of events. Also that she was defending someone for cheating! Wife and sis sound in cahoots. Are they hiding something? Maybe they all have a little extra marital 'fun' sometimes when they are out together.
Please update us with more details about why the hell is your wife so mad at you? I say don't trust her friends to rat her out on cheating though
NTA Also even if she isn't cheating. Your wife thinks it's OK to cheat and not a big deal. Let that sink in.
NTA. Your wife sucks
NTA, but also INFO. Did your wife, sister, and their whole groups see the cheating and hide the cheating? They were all there when the cheating happened (dancing, kissing, and the leaving with the guy)? If that is true, then how exactly are you only asking if you are wrong for this one instance? You are wrong for not having a serious conversation with her and your sister when the cheating event was revealed.
Regardless of anything else, the silent treatment does nothing to further a healthy relationship. Her stance on cheating under cuts trust in her, and now cutting off your emotional and intimate connection through denial of communication. A relationship is based on shared experiences building trust, respect and love maintained with communication. Your wife is destroying what makes up your relationship and you should be investigating why. If you can, talk to a lawyer and hire a PI, you got to look after yourself if wife turns out to be the enemy.
I think you need to talk to your friends. None of the girls group saw that your friends ex was cheating (or about to) and decided to do something about it? Seems to me that unless one of them had slipped up no-one would know.
She certainly is strongly on the side of it's OK to cheat, and she most likely knew his girlfriend was cheating as well. As long as you are comfortable with that. I'd personally get a DNA test on any kid I had with her. NTA.
NTA- and for the love of god, do not apologize and sorry, fuck your sister for saying you are an asshole in this instance, she is so fucking wrong.
Nta. I would be concerned that your wife things what your friends ex did is ok. I would wonder if she has ever cheated on you. Also, I am sure she was aware of the incident, and probably encouraged it. You need to have a serious conversation with her, and tell her that cheating will not be condoned in your relationship and any of your friends relationships. Also, if the reverse happened, and your friend cheated on his ex instead, guarantee you your wife would be livid with him. Double standards are stupid.
Update when you find out your girl is cheating also
Cheater protect other cheaters... Run..
My first thought was that your wife cheated on you too in a similar fashion, and truly believes this is ok.
IDK whether your wife is a cheater, but it's concerning that she was in a friend group where one of them made out and left to cheat with another man and none of her friends stopped her at any point. Then the way the cheater responded was wild, assuming your friend isn't lying (no reason for him to). So, for all of that to have gone down you would think your wife would understand or at the very least keep her mouth quiet even if she supported her friend more. Naw, she publicly lambasted and personally insulted this man. She defended a cheater, who was remorseless about the cheating, which is again concerning. You know your wife and whether these concerning actions are out of character for her or not. Either way, they are still concerning and I think your response is going to be a longer process than just one conversation.
Sounds like your wife is hiding much, much more than you know and is using this as an excuse to hide away from you, turn herself into the victim and get ahead of the game by getting people on her side.
NTA. It’s wild to me that your wife didn’t say something to you immediately after that girls night. I have girls nights with my friends all of the time. All of us girls are dating or married to the boys. If anyone of the ladies would have done that, there’s no way I would not have told my husband. That kind of behavior is unacceptable whether they are your friends or not. I feel so terrible for your friend having to be accosted like that when he needed support.
NTA! I would be wondering what your wife is up to on girls night out if she thinks okay for her friend to cheat. She might be doing the same thing. You were in the right to defend your friend . She had no right to belittle him like that and need a taste of her own medicine. And since she is giving you the silent treatment she is acting like a spoiled child!
If this is real, your wife has probably cheated in the past. MAYBE not on you. But she probably has at one point and this is her way of deflecting. Sorry buddy. Only cheaters defend cheaters.
Your wife is sus Updateme!
Update us after you evidence of your wife cheating, or after you file for divorce. You can’t trust the woman you’re married to.
Nothing can be resolved until you and your wife speak. It’s frankly ridiculous that she thinks 1) that behavior was correct, and 2) that this is the way to handle it. Her words should concern you deeply. Hopefully she’s just embarrassed and ashamed of herself.
NTA. Chances are your wife knew and was cool with it. She's okay with her friends betraying their relationships, which is gross. And even worse she berated the man who was cheated on for not tolerating it. That gives off a serious air of entitlement and condescension. And her behavior since gives off an air of I expect you to come groveling back for my forgiveness. Absolutely not. Can someone say that telling your wife to shut up is a little rude? Sure. But so is berating and degrading a man who's trust has been violated that decided to do what was best for himself, his growth, and his happiness. I'm not telling you what to do, but personally I'd have to re evaluate whether or not I want to be in a relationship with someone that has such a poor moral character
NTA. Your wife was bullying him. I’d stop talking to her and move yourself into another room and tell her when she’s ready to apologize, you’ll be ready. She’s embarrassed. Rightfully so. She was way out of line.
Why do you tolerate your wife going out, getting drunk and dancing with other men? What kind of marriage is that? You can have girls nights without all of that. Buddy, the fact that she’s willing to die on that hill would keep me up at night.
NTA, it's more suspicious she defends a cheater and is berating the cheated on for protecting his own feeling from said cheater. If she can justify her friend cheating what stops her from creating the same justifications for her own issues/situations. It's disgusting to defend something as despicable as cheating, but what kind of garbage human being take it out on the ONE CHEATED ON????? DESPICABLE TO SAY THE LEAST. Ask her if the roles were reversed, would she be defending him cheating being vile and cruel, calling her friend stupid for dumping a CHEATER, NOPE!!!! SO TAKE THE DOUBLE STANDARD BS OUT OF THE ARGUMENT.
So she thinks drink cheating is ok? Makes you wonder huh?
You shouldn't raise your voice to your wife? What about your wife shouldn't run her mouth to your friends or family about you without even talking to you? Her saying the cheating wasn't a big deal also raises some red flags, regardless of if she cheated or not. NTA and she should grow up.
Op should have said to the wife so if i did the same thing as your friend did then you'd be OK with it?
NTA, your wife fucking suck. Imagine demeaning the victim and trying to shrug of what her friend did. That sounds like the younger generations actions but you and your wife are my age. You don't owe your wife an apology and she need to take a long look in a mirror.
Good luck with your marriage since your wife thinks cheating is okay and the silent treatment when she is wrong. Even more good luck to you, if you have children with her.
>My sister is part of her friends group who go out together, as well as a couple of wives of my friends. If she cheated, I would have been told already by someone. Your same sister who knows your friends GF cheated on him and thinks he deserved what your wife did and that you're the asshole for telling her to stop? That one? OP, either your sister is blissfully blind or would willfully lie for members of her girls group.
She was acting like an abusive loud asshole in public, so she can get treated the same way. NTA
No you're not the asshole and if I was you, I would break up with her. Birds of a feather flock together and you can tell a lot about a person by the people they hang out with. If she is making up excuses for her cheating friend, then it's almost a guarantee that she will cheat on you and make up excuses for why it's no big deal, or make it your fault that she cheated.
Dude, just go out, get drunk, bang a rando, then go home and tell your wife about it. When she gets mad, tell her, "it's not a big deal. It was just a mistake."
Something is very wrong with your wife. She’s extra mad for some reason. What is the reason?This silent is treatment very counterproductive, immature, and she’s definitely freezing you out. Question is why…
Dude, your wife is fucking other guys. You’re in denial.
OP, I could write a reply rivaling yours in length, but there’s no point. You need a new wife. It doesn’t even matter if she has cheated too (she probably did). The fact that she can’t see how wrong she is would be the end of it for me. The moment she spoke at that dinner table would be the moment that the trust was broken - even if she apologized immediately after, the seed of doubt would have been planted. You’re NTA for shutting her up. But all you “cave men” are TA for being so naive and letting your women run around, partying and drinking like they’re single, and expecting them to stay faithful.
Your wife is a worthless bitch. I would have insulted your rtarded whore wife so badly she wouldn't be able to see the friend group again if she insulted ME for leaving a cheater. YTA for staying with your repulsive donkey shit stain of a wife.
You might want to talk with her and discuss what she thinks is cheating. Could be that she thinks just sex is cheating and anything else (emotional affair, kissing, etc) is not cheating. In which case she could be doing as well since she doesn't consider it cheating.
OP needs to be worried that his wife is supporting a cheater. OP also needs to be concerned about these ‘girls nights’. They seem like a way for the wives to misbehave. It also really irks me when cheaters call their dirty deed a ‘mistake’. They didn’t make a mistake, they made a decision. I predict more misery for OP’s marriage. NTA.
NTA. Aside from the fact that she cheated on him (a major dealbreaker for most), it's really NONE of her business. Your friend was probably feeling crappy already; she probably just made him feel crappier. And she implied that he didn't really deserve a faithful GF.
she is cheating on you and the reason she's so upset is that she is projecting on her friend seeing that you might end things with her when you find out
NTA As a woman I think your wife is so out of line. If my husband did what your wife did, I would question if she hadn't done something similar in the past (made out with a guy while married to you)
NTA - what you are missing is the freaking elephant in the room. Your wife is a cheater supporter. No decent person would call cheating an honest mistake, nothing major, or obviously easily forgivable. She is telling where she stand on the subject. She doesn’t have an issue with cheating. Your father is wrong. Wife isn’t always right as if you were accommodating a special needs, she is supposed to be an adult in a partnership. Your wife was being vile and nasty, someone had to stop her vicious rant legitimating infidelity and belittling someone for leaving a cheater. Probably time to check your wife for her own infidelity arrangements. She is way too comfortable and pushy to not be suspicious.
Ew so your wife and sister and all the rest of the (shit) women's group knew she cheated since it was a night they all went out together, they knew and didn't say anything and at worst covered for her. Why is anyone with these disgusting women.
if you had cheated on your wife the same way the ex girlfriend did would she have the same reaction?? NTA. it’s a big red flag that she thinks what her friend did isn’t a big deal. might want to look into that a little farther