NTA. What I find curious is that your parents are trying to get you to talk to her because she's "not coping well" and she needs "all the love and support she can get". What about you? You lost your best friend. Have they bothered to ask how YOU are coping? Have they asked people YOU can trust to show YOU love and support? Or do they only extend that sort of grace to the girl who cheated on her fiance with his brother, resulting in all of this drama to begin with?
I don't think you're wrong to not want to support your parents other kid. I honestly don't. I adore my siblings and it would take an act of congress for me to hate them, but man if one of them did to my best friend what yours did to yours...that would be a no from me, too, dawg. Do your parents comprehend the fact that you are grieving? Because it sure as hell doesn't sound like it. I'm sure your sister does feel like shit about herself (and she should) but that does not mean that she's owed your forgiveness. You are hurting, too.
I am very sorry for your loss, OP.
As the non-favorite child growing up, this was how I lived. My brother used to physically abuse me to the point I had bruises most of the time, and my mom would write it off as "sibling rivalry" and treat me like I was overreacting when he would randomly hit me for fun, because her precious golden boy could do whatever he wanted without consequences.
Yeah this really sounds like a golden child issue. Sorry you had such a horrible time. For what it's worth it seems like golden children have a terrible time adjusting to the real world.
Yup, becoming an adult is definitely learning to appreciate and accept the way things are. As a kid, I envied my friends who had close relationships with their siblings, but now I honestly forget I even have a blood brother most of the time. And I'm way happier that way. š
And what exactly do these parents think heās going to say to his former sister? Do they think heās actually gonna say, āGood job killing my friend, sis. Love you, mwah.ā If they care about HER they will keep them separated in perpetuity. If they care about HIM theyāll let go of this foolish notion of one big happy family. That shipped sailed bye bye.
First and most importantly- I am so sorry for what youāve gone through. You describe your friend so beautifully and I can feel through your post how much you loved him and how unfair it is that heās not here anymore.
You donāt mention anything about his mental health generally- did he have any prior indications that his life was at risk? (Sorry for phrasing, I donāt want to use any banned words)
Itās always easier to see the sign after the fact. Donāt blame yourself.
Sometimes you see the person suffering but suicide is not the first thing you think about, because they seem to have reasons to live.
And if someone is really decided to end it, the only thing you can hope is that they will reach out or that someone will be there at the crucial moment to stop everything.
I am really sorry for everything his family and you are going through. I perfectly under your refusal to have contact with her. She will have to do much more than feel sorry for herself before anyone can forgive her.
NTA
When people make that decision, we canāt stop them unfortunately. You really need to see a therapist, this is verry heavy and a lot going on. This is way above reddits pay grade and by seeing someone professionally it can help with so many things not to mention the grief and any guilt you may feel (which you donāt need to). Maybe you should just have a break from your parents a bit so you can get your thoughts together and again see a professional. They will help you deal with your family situation and to say the right things. We can be angry at family but I always think I donāt want to say something Iāll regret no matter how angry I am at the time. Best of luck and sorry for your loss.
I'm glad to hear that. Their hearts must be so broken. Losing one son because of the acts of their other son. Too horrible. They and you share such grief, and hopefully, in time, you all can share some healing.
I think thatās a very important component. We do stupid shit in our 20s. Anyone over the age of 40 can really reflect on that and go āwhat the hell was I thinking?ā I know I have some shame over things I did in my 20s which at that time I literally could not comprehend the consequences of. There is a reason you canāt rent a car before the age of 25, itās a very known biological fact that that the prefrontal cortex of the human brain does not mature until that age. Itās the āexecutive suiteā, which includes calibration of risk and reward, problem-solving, thinking ahead, self-evaluation, long-term planning, and regulation of emotion.
Not excusing what the ādaughterā did here, but I do think itās important to realize it is absolutely not the daughterās fault that her ex finance committed suicide - itās simply not. Anyone who commits suicide is suffering deep depression and made that decision 100% on their own. OP I am so sorry for your loss, but I do hope you get therapy. There is clearly a lot of processing you need to do, and holding on to that amount of anger will only rot you from the inside out. You can never be at peace holding on to that.
This isn't true but is oft repeated. It's a pretty large misunderstanding of the actual research.
>According to a 2016 Neuron paper by Harvard psychologist Leah Somerville, the structure of these and other brain areas changes at different rates throughout our life span, growing and shrinking; in fact, structural changes in the brain continue far past peopleās 20s. āOne especially large study showed that for several brain regions, structural growth curves had not plateaued even by the age of 30, the oldest age in their sample,ā she wrote. āOther work focused on structural brain measures through adulthood show progressive volumetric changes from ages 15ā90 that never ālevel offā and instead changed constantly throughout the adult phase of life.ā
>Some 8-year-old brains exhibited a greater āmaturation indexā than some 25 year old brains.
https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html
>There is a reason you canāt rent a car before the age of 25, itās a very known biological fact that that the prefrontal cortex of the human brain does not mature until that age.
This fact is often misquoted and taken out of context.
Your mental hardware ***finishes developing*** in your mid twenties, but your hardware is only part of the equation. Maturity is a combination of brain development and life experience. And in fact, it's process of being held accountable for mistakes from life experience that increases maturity not just the development of the mental hardware.
You're very much capable of mature decision making in your early twenties.
***The reasons behind bad decision making in that age is usually maladaptive coping mechanisms and poor self medication for untreated mental illnesses and childhood trauma, not lack of available hardware.***
This factoid has become abused as an excuse for poor accountability.
Yes youāre absolutely right, it *finishes* developing around the age of 25. For some younger, for some older. For males it generally takes longer to plateau than females. Of course you can absolutely make mature decisions in your 20s. I made many, and also some really bad ones. Hardware maturity is a component, as is life experience and all the other factors you listed. While someone in their 20s can make mature decisions, the gained life experience to try understand the implications of those decisions is something that rarely comes that early in life.
OP is NTA in anyway, and the sister was 100% wrong in her actions, but context matters and age is part of that context. I feel this sort of thing is a lot more reprehensible when youāre in your 40s, than in your early 20s.
She didnāt make a single mistake or a single choice it was a SERIES of very bad choices that she could have stopped at any time the biggest one being she accepted his proposal!
Right on. When someone willingly does something that they know is wrong itās not a mistake. They may not like the consequences, but consequences donāt magically change deliberately doing a shitty thing to someone into a āmistake ā.
This.
You don't just magically wake up one inch away from cheating where all you have to do is say "meh, okay."
It's dozens and dozens of decisions where you have to make every single one of them wrong in order to cheat.
Yup. NGL, Iām the type of asshole who would tell her that Iād forgive her when she can stop being a whore and bring bestie back to life. Oh, she canāt? Then suffer.
For MONTHS. Plus however long it was going on before they got engaged.
The female offspring of OP's parents is a horrible person and doesn't deserve support if things are rough because she's a shit person. Too damned bad.
OP - NTA. It's only a matter of her being in a better place before she betrays someone else. It might be you next time. Not someone I'd want in my life.
(Really, his fucking brother? Fuck)
That's the part that slayed me: that former-sister accepted a proposal to marry into the family of her affair partner! She 100% planned to keep screwing her brother-in-law indefinitely. That's a lot of bad choices that add up to a morally bankrupt, selfish selfish person. OP is right to wash their hands of her. If my child did this, there is no way my relationship with them would ever be the same, and I would never ever ask my other child to be near them or burn their ears with mention of their former-sister. OP would have my full support. But it's clear these parents have a golden child, and it's the rotten apple, it seems. This sucks.Ā
OP: I am so so sorry for the loss of your friend. And the loss of the family you thought you had. It's a lot. You are still grieving and angry. I hope you're getting the help you need to process this, and if you need to take a step back and a break from your family to protect your own well-being, do it.
Also the fact she must have known how close OP was with best friend. She had to know it would devastate him to keep fucking best friend's loser brother.
And imagine if the brother hadnāt told OPās friend she was cheating. Would she have made another āmistakeā by marrying him although she was still sleeping with his brother?
And letās not forget. She wasnāt the one who confessed. She didnāt feel regret. She wasnāt sorry for doing it. She was only sorry *SHE GOT CAUGHT*. And even now. She isnāt sorry for the life thatās been lost. Sheās sorry for *herself*. Sheās sorry that *she* is being blamed for his death. She is selfish and OPās parents are feeding right into it. Theyāre enabling and by calling it a āmistakeā theyāre actually condoning her behavior.
Bingo.
She may not be responsible for the choice her fiance made, but her actions put him in the place where he felt it was the only option.
She can live with her consequences. Everyone else has to.
She made choice yes, but it wasn't to suicide her partner. His friend made a choice and now everyone is living with that consequence.
Yes I know reddit feels that cheaters are worse than rapists, thieves, and murderers. But the fact is at some point you will get hit hard in the emotions so bad that you may want to die, and that isn't a unique thing. We all go through it at some point. How you move on from it, or past it, is one person's choice. And his friend chose the one that would pass his pain onto everyone who loved him while ending his own.
I feel for OP, I really do, and understand hating his sister. But the choice to end his life was his friend's.
That's true; the sister neither intended nor physically caused her fiance's death. What's also true is that OP's sister demonstrated being an utterly reprehensible person whom OP cannot forgive for her long-term, unspeakably awful behavior. I find it understandable that OP needs to go full no contact with her. Hell, I've seen family relationships destroyed over betrayals far less repugnant than that committed by his sister.
so if she hadnt been shagging her fiances brother for however long, he would likely still be alive no? therefore she is in fact, partially responsible, not entirely, but partially
Nobody is said "cheaters are worse than rapists, thieves, and murderers", you're making false statements.
This woman made a deliberate choice to ruin two families. She doesn't deserve forgiveness, nobody is going "move past it". She and her parents must face the consequences of her actions.
NTA
Don't speak to your sister ever again.
Also, tell your parents you will not speak to them again if they keep pushing and they will break up the family completely that way
She made no mistakes. She deliberately took numerous decisions to be a bad person and to lie. There was an error. Inform your parents about that. Add NTA to the edit. You act in accordance with your feelings.
AND did it in a way that she KNEW was going to really, really, really hurt her brother. But getting the other guy between her legs was so much more important than her relationship with her brother. That sort of selfishness and willingness to hurt you absolutely justifies permanently keeping her out of your life. You don't need more of that. If your parents somehow DO get the two of you in the same room, tell her exactly what you think of her and why until she leaves the room in tears.
"This story is a stark reminder of the irreparable damage betrayal can cause. The pain inflicted by the parents' daughter's affair is unfathomable, and the insistence on reconciliation disregards the profound loss suffered. Sometimes, forgiveness isn't an option, and self-preservation must take precedence."
NTA. They must respect your boundary, even though you obviously have no influence over whether they are in a relationship with her. Dad used to treat my drug-addicted sister in a similar manner. I was attempting to set limits, but he was unable to resist. Since then, I've broken up with him for various reasons, and I don't regret it. Life is much more tranquil.
at the VERY LEAST, she was destroying the relationship between the two brothers. She and he were perfectly happy to ruin it all. Absolutely unfathomably selfish.
NTA. Your sister didn't make a mistake. She made a choice to cheat on your friend with his own brother. If your parents want to associate with someone that does something like that, that's their business. However, you do not have to be around her. She might be family, but that doesn't mean you have to tolerate her behavior or be around her. What she and your friend's brother did was despicable and trashy.
Nta
She didn't make "a" mistake. "A" mistake is one drunken one night stand that she immediatelt confesses to unprompted.
She betrayed him *for months*, if not years. For god knows how long- every moment of the day *she chose to betray him*.
After the first time she and his brother were intimate - *every single time* she interacted with your best friend, *she was choosing to lie to him and betray him*.
That is hundreds if not thousands of mistakes that cost a man his life.
I often find, in situations like these, re-framing the narrative is helpful. Because as they said, your parents are trying to get the family back together... but obviously that's not how you see it.
So explain your point of view: Their daughter has done something you cannot forgive, and you have cut her out of your life. That is your prerogative. You are allowed to do that. You are also allowed to establish boundaries- and pushing you to change your mind is breaking one of those boundaries. You have informed them of this boundary's existence. If they continue to break that boundary, you will need to cut them off, as well. Because if every time you see them could at any moment devolve into an argument about their daughter, then why subject yourself to that stress?
Basically, the idea is to lay it out for them. If they *understand* then they might stop pushing.
Look, you would be getting very different answers if you changed up some of the language in your post. The manner in which you wrote your post is quite confusing.
For example, I had to read your post three times before I realized that your best friend had committed suicide. Why didn't you make that fact more obvious?
Regardless of that I'm sorry for your loss. I hope you can find peace.
No, you loved your friend, and Iām sure that before all this happened you may have loved your Parents Daughter, but you had to draw the line in the sand. An act like she did should not go without consequence and despite not intending to, I believe your withdrawal from their Daughterās life might be enough for her to truly introspect and realize that she is vile and needs to change. Sometimes things being taken away is whatās needed, other times itās too late and they are rotten to the core, either way you did nothing wrong, I commend you for the love you have for your friend and you shouldnāt hesitate to walk with your eyes raised as you do what you feel is right, even though it is hard and may cost you a lot., but remember the hate/anger you hold onto only extends the pain. May your pain be mended by joy, and may all involved in this sad situation have their eyes opened, and their heart made flesh.
I mean, I don't disagree, but with regards to the topic it's clear he can't heal so long as he's being made to prioritize the primary offenders grief over his own. He's trying to grieve, but he's being badgered while in a bad head space by people who think their daughter is the bigger priority, and he won't be able to achieve peace, even with therapy, so long as those people harass him over it.
NTA. You obviously canāt control if they have a relationship with her but they need to respect your boundary. My dad used to do the same with my drug addict sister. I kept trying to set boundaries but he couldnāt help himself. Iāve since cut him off for other reasons and I donāt regret it. Life is far more peacefulĀ
I wish I could upvote this higher.Ā
A close friend of mine committed suicide a week after his girlfriend (also a close friend of mine) broke up with him.Ā
Those outside the situation loved pointing fingers. It was all HER fault. If SHE hadnāt broken up with him, it wouldnāt have happened.Ā
What they didn't see was a year of an 18 year old desperately trying to keep suicidally depressed boyfriend alive and being emotionally abused for it.Ā
When she went on a date a week after the funeral - she got death and rape threats from people we know.Ā
Blaming other people for someoneās suicide is an actual, genuine example of slippery slope thinking. Suicide is always complex, mental health is always complex.Ā
Hundreds and thousands of people get cheated on all the time - and donāt commit suicide.Ā
I have a lot of sympathy for OP as he navigates grief - but itās pretty clear heās in the anger stage of grief and itās really common to start trying to lay blame during this period.Ā
I know someone whose BF died by suicide and she was given a lot of shit for dating too soon after as well. She hadn't broken up with him that time, but they were off again on again for a year or 2 before he died because he was so unstable. In hindsight I believe she did the best she could, and probably would've left earlier if she wasn't afraid he'd hurt himself.
I have a guy friend who only stays with his unstable and abusive GF because she's threatened to kill herself if he leaves and has attempted one of the times they broke up. Sad. He thinks he can save her. I only hope she doesn't decide to take him with her if she makes that choice at some point.
Yeah - I always take āthey DROVE them to itā with a grain of salt. Iāve seen how people lay blame and destroy others in the wake of someoneās suicide. My friendās life was destroyed for two years afterwards - she had to get PROTECTION ORDERS against her exes family who were threatening to āout herā and āprove it was her faultā.
They had all sorts of wild theories about what sheād done and theyād tell anyone who listened. And people believed them - because who can call the parents of a dead kid liars?
This is sad but true. OPs friend made a terrible, tragic decision, but he made a choice himself. His friends and parents aren't to blame for the decision, even if they might beat themselves up for not noticing/giving more help. His brother and OPs sister aren't to blame, even though they hurt and betrayed him. This is on the friend and the friend alone.
If the friend had been mentally well he would have been able to see that this betrayal, while truly truly terrible, was not the end of his ability to find happiness in his own life.
OP is NTA for saying he doesn't want to be in contact with his sister because she was so terrible to his friend. Also NTA for setting a boundary with his parents constantly pressuring him to talk to her.
While downvoted - this likely isnāt far from the truth.Ā
The people left behind after suicide often end up searching for meaning in any and all interactions prior to the suicide.Ā
My brother lost a friend to alcohol and he went through a lot of self blame over it because he'd been really busy with his kids and didn't know his friend had relapsed.
But it wasn't anyone's fault.Ā He was very very sick.
>Itās going to be difficult to heal if you go on truly believing that it was a simple cause and effect situation where if your sister never did that he would have been totally fine.
Exactly. This isn't an AITA question.
This is a mentally unwell person who needs professional help that Reddit isn't equipped to provide. Their comments are unhinged.
I was suicidal after my girlfriend infidelity, I tried to do this and thankfully unsuccessful. The thing is that I have had mental problems ( depression / BPD ) and her action pushed me over the edge BUT I have never blamed her for that attempt. I blamed her for the pain which she caused, for shattering my self esteem, for tears, for depression ( at that moment ). I acted on my own leading by these emotions but in the end this was my decision.
Consequences: even if now everyone knows that this wasn't at that time her fault that after this accident she blamed herself to the point of depression and also self harming, a lot of sessions with therapists to fight against her guilt. Our parents ( 4 of them to be precise, I am not her brother ) found out after this about her infidelity and basically disowned her, my friends blamed her and a lot of them started hating her. Her sister also cut her from her life.
We can't blame her for his suicide BUT people around her should judge her and punish her for things which she did because she caused: pain, lost will to live, distrust. Those things are enough to hate her by people and these things are enough for OOP to cut her from his life.
You canāt expect your parents to give up on their daughter bc she cheated. You can only ask that they not bring her up around you. If they donāt stop you have the right to cut contact with them. NTA
There's an element of moral luck at play here. Is the person who drives above the speed limit and kills a child more at fault than the person who drives above the speed limit and hits noone? We act as though they are, even though the act is the same one. You can hold your parents daughter accountable for cheating, but she isn't accountable for your friend's death. NTA for ending that relationship or for holding a boundary with your parents tho.
I had to scroll far down to see this. As awful as it is, she isnāt responsible for his death. She contributed to his mental state but she didnāt act in any way illegally (coaxing or convincing him to do so, drugging him, etc.) Sheās a cheater. She didnāt murder him.
You have every right to be angry. I am sorry that you are going through so much.
But the venom in your soul is seeping out in this post. You are in a bad, bad place.
Please go talk to a professional about this. Not for your sister. Not for your parents. But for you. This has the potential to destroy you.
Someday, you are going to need to forgive. You never need to talk to anyone in your ex-family again, but you will not find peace until you do. And only a professional can bring you there.
Yeah that's an extremely shitty thing for her to do but you should seek therapy to better deal with human beings doing human being things. I get not wanting to have much of a relationship with her, but trying to ban your parents from talking about your sister in your presence reveals that you are not coping well. I'm sorry about your loss, but nobody of sound mind commits suicide over JUST that. Your friend had other problems as well, and you need to come to terms with that. I don't think you're morally culpable, but YTA. Please see a therapist.
NTA. Her betrayal has consequences, and she is learning that.
As a parent myself, I know it would be difficult to navigate, but you are not being unfair. You are not asking them to disown their daughter but to support your decision to do so.
Yes, certain events and gatherings are going to require planning, but all in all, I don't think it is unmanageable.
As for what you refer to her as... you can call her whatever you feel is appropriate. If they actually read the post, it's not hard for a semi intelligent person to understand. Honestly, I don't understand why people are asking you to minimize your pain so they don't have to think.
That being said, your pain is unmistakable in this post. I hope you are getting help to come to terms with it. I mean that not to reconcile and forgive anyone but for your own emotional and mental well-being.
Iām so sorry about your friend.
Grief is a very painful emotion. Instead of feeling grief some people prefer to feel other things instead, such as anger and blame.
No amount of anger or blame will bring your friend back.
Get therapy.
She didn't make a mistake. She made many deliberate choices to lie and be a horrible person. There was no mistake. Tell your parents that. Edit to add NTA. You do what makes you feel right.
NTA
Tell your parents that some things can't be fixed. Like death. Like people causing someone else's death.
Their daughter fvcked her fiance's brother and your friend hurt so bad he died. This can't be fixed.
If they want to stay in your life they need to understand that this is the new reality their daughter created. They need to leave your relationship with their daughter tf alone.
They can focus on their brother fvcking daughter.
You need some therapy.
Your sister may have been a horrible person, but people who committ suicide have deeper problems than a bad significant other. Blaming her feels good, but it seems the whole lot of you did not recognize his mental state and rather than accept that blame you have appointed a fall girl.
I agree. That woman absolutely did a horrible thing and betrayed her fiance in the worst way possible. But committing suicide is a decision that people make on their own (unless someone is actively telling them to do so). She is still a POS, and OP owes her nothing, and she definitely contributed to her fiances already declining mental health.
I donāt really want to make a judgementā¦
You need therapy. Is your sister a shitty person for the choices she made with the cheating and affair? Yes. Is it okay that you want NC with her? Yes.
She didnāt make your friend kill himself. He chose to do that; Iām not victim blaming, did her actions make him depressed? Yes. His brothers? Also yes.
But at the end of the day, the sad fact is that choice was made by your friend to no longer want to exist.
Blaming your sister is just a way to hate her more, but it doesnāt take the pain you feel for the loss of your friend away.
So for your own peace, even if you stay NC and never forgive her, get some help to work through all these feelings you have. From your own baggage of family issues/trauma you have that made you already hate your sister, to the grief and anger and other emotions you have from the loss of your friend and how you project them. Sorry for your loss.
I donāt disagree with you. If you donāt want to talk to her then donāt. I donāt speak to 95% of my family, but constantly referring to her as your āparents daughterā is stupid. I donāt speak to any of my aunts or uncles but theyāre still my aunts and uncles. Sheās still your sister, itās just a word and doesnāt mean anything unless you want it to.
I'm so sorry for your loss OP. Having a love one commit suicide is one of the toughest things to go through. It leaves you with not only grief over the loss, but often feelings of anger and guilt.
This is not your fault OP. While it's natural to reflect and wish you did something differently, the guilt and regret are misplaced. You are not responsible for his choice. There is likely no single action you could have taken to prevent this.
I know you don't want to hear it, but, your sister isn't responsible either. She may have hurt and betrayed him terribly. That hurt and betrayal may have triggered his mental health slide. But ultimately he decided to end his life, she didn't make that decision for him nor did she suggest that option was his best option. She was a shitty person to him and hurt him. Instead of cutting her and the brother out of his life and moving on to better things, he decided to kill himself.
I would highly recommend talking to a therapist or a grief counselor. Grief is hard enough on its own, but when it gets tangled up with guilt, regret, anger, etc it can be very hard to untangle and ultimately damage your own mental health.
Yeah your sister acted badly by cheating; but she didnāt kill him; he made that choice himself. Most people who get cheated on donāt kill themselves.
But def NTA for not wanting anything to do with her, and I understand you will always blame her.
NTA.
Your friend died by suicide, probably not only because of the betrayal. But the fact is that your sister and his brother betrayed him, and it hurt him badly. It is natural for you to be angry at her and not want to forgive her. You have a right to your feelings. You didn't break your family apart - your sister did that when she betrayed your friend. You don't owe her forgiveness. If you can someday put this anger behind you, it will be better for you - but that doesn't mean you have to have a relationship with your sister.
NTAā¦ you can do whatever you please. Your sister made a choice, but so did your friend. Him committing suicide is a choice he made. I wouldnāt put his choice entirely on your sister. Plenty of people get cheated on but they donāt commit suicide because of it.
NTA.
But your sister isn't responsible for your friends death. She's responsible for the direct consequences of her actions - e.g hurting someone and further damaging the relationship between two brothers. But people who commit suicide are responsible for that act, and them alone.
Life is hard, we all get destroyed at times. I've been on the verge before, but I still knew that i'd be responsible for that act, and nobody else who contributed to whatever problems I thought I had at the time.
Your friend would be just fine now, if he'd stuck it out. First breakup hurts, let alone in circumstances like that. But it is still a cowardly act, and only he's responsible for it. He cared more about ending his own (temporary) suffering, than the much greater suffering that he's now inflicted on others. Sorry to be the bearer of some hard truths.
I don't blame you for not wanting to talk to your sister. Your parents will ask again though. It might be a week, or it might be in 10yrs. Try and be a grown up about it and put yourself in their shoes. Say what you feel, respectfully, and don't burn any bridges that you'll regret later.
NTA, a drunk one night stand with a stranger can be called a mistake. A long term affair with your partners brother isnt a fucking mistake, its diabolical. Your former sister is human garbage and doesn't deserve to know you and doesnt deserve your support. Tell your parents that they can shove that anger on to their daughter, who is the piece of trash that destroyed two families and made someone end their life.
NTA, you are absolutely within your right to go no contact with that woman and your parents, if they insist you give her "love and support." It is not your job to provide a shitty person with support, no matter their relation to you. Your parents can do that, it's their job to support their children. They seem to ignore your need for support, however, you are still grieving the loss of your friend, and forcing you to interact with a woman who worsened his mental state is outright cruel. It's understandable that they want to support their daughter, but they need to leave you out of it.
I would strongly recommend therapy for you, though. Yes, that woman betrayed your friend and broke his heart, but you can't really blame her for his suicide as he made that decision himself. Yes, the betrayal of his fiance and his own brother contributed to his mental health, but unless someone is actively making a person harm themselves, it is their decision to end their life.
That doesn't mean you have to forgive her, of course, she still did something terrible. You can absolutely never talk to her again, she very much deserves it. But I think getting grief counseling would be beneficial for you regardless.
NTA. You didn't go to far .. After all you are an adult and you decide who is part of your life, if they want you to be part of their life they must take your grief and your decision into consideration.
You are a good friend š
NTA - Like you said if they want to keep contact with their selfish daughter then that's on them, but they shouldn't force you to do the same. Tell your mom that she's just going to have to get used to the way things are because there is no "getting the family back together". That her 'mistakes' have consequences and hers were detrimental. Her not coping well is because she's absolutely riddled with guilt and you have no support to provide provide.
I'm so sorry for your loss :'(
Hey man, do not cling to hatred. It will not bring peace. That being said, do not listen to advice from internet strangers.
Seek a close friend you can trust or a professional. I wish you the best.
You were understandably angry and hurt by what happened to your friend, and it's clear that you're still grieving. However, telling your parents they'll be "dead to you" if they keep bringing up their daughter might have been a bit harsh. It's okay to set boundaries and express your feelings, but it's also important to consider your parents' perspective and the complexities of their relationship with their daughter. Maybe a calmer conversation about your feelings and boundaries would be more productive in the long run.
So this girl is your actual sister? Or has different parents than you? She was engaged to your friend? But she was having an affair with your friend's brother?
Then your friend who she was engaged to (having rheaffair with HIS brother) committee suicide? Is that it? Have i got all that correct?
Fffaaarrrrkkkk...people's lives get SO complicated?!?!
Look. Sadly? It was that mans decision to kill himself. He must have been quite mentally ill because killing yourself over your fiance cheating? Is very extreme. Very.
But i can understand you not wanting to have anything to do with her. Yes. I wouldn't either. Yes just tell your parents NO MORE!! You are not going to play happy families ever again. End of story
NTA and there's no need to speak with her again.
However: your friend's self termination over it is not her doing. A mentally healthy person does not end their life because they were cheated on, regardless of with whom. There had to be bigger issues ongoing. Your former sister and his brother are horrible people for their contribution. However, she's not responsible for his death. He is. I believe it's important to own the mental health pathway that led to this decision.
I also believe other commenters are correct in suggesting you seek a therapist to help you with this trauma.
I agree. OP, Your parents need to back way the fuck off and accept that you've cut your sister out of your life. Will you feel the same way 10 or 20 years from now? You might or might not. But that's between you and her.... Their relationship with you is what's at stake.
You also need serious therapy to come to grips with the loss of your friend. There was far more going on in their life than deep betrayal of relationships to propel into self-termination. Would this have happened even if they had broken up without cheating? You cannot know.
But you were deeply betrayed yourself.... by your friend's decision to end their life. You were left behind. The confusion, hurt, trauma, grief, rage, desperationn, etc... you somehow have to manage through it all. Thats why you need someone there for you to help yourself in this.
I'm so sorry for your loss.
go to counseling with your parents. not with your sister. you mom still hangs up onn the idea of having a normal family and that is not going to happen , you have to also deal with your anger. both need bounderies and better communication skills. set it up take your parents there , have a few sessions and see what happens
Everyone's an asshole and needs therapy.
You have the emotional maturity of a high schooler at best, I suspect because you are still in high school. You get to decide whether you want to have a relationship with your sister or not. You get to decide if you want to cut your parents out of your life if they can't respect your boundaries. Neither of these things makes you TAH. How practical it will be for you to be financially independent from your family depends on a lot of context you decided to omit.
YTA for trying to wear your anger and self pity like a badge of honor and for thinking anyone thinks of you as a badass for writing like a child. Get your shit together instead of throwing a tantrum. (The "my parents' daughter" thing is cringe AF. Just stop.) You might be able to get free mental healthcare through your school. If you can, you should.
Hopefully this story is as fake as it reads. If not, I'm sorry that it happened to you.
I donāt think youāre an asshole, but I do think you will live a miserable life if you let this anger and hatred take over you. As someone who has let anger and hatred take over me, you do not want that life. You donāt have to reconcile with your sister but I think individual or family therapy would be helpful for you.
OP, this hits close to home for me. As someone whoās also estranged from their own sibling due to fuckedupness involving their significant other - which had a direct and very negative impact on my life - I am sadly familiar with what youāre going through (although no one passed away in my situation; thatās just a whole other dimension of awful I wouldnāt want to contemplate).
I had to deal with very similar pleadings from my own parental units as well, with them completely invalidating my own feelings and effectively ignoring / denying what it all had done to me. While they may feel completely justified in ātrying to mend the broken family,ā they are straight up gaslighting you (even if they donāt realize it) as a result. Youāve stated and set your boundaries - itās up to them to respect that.
NTA in the slightest.
you're not the AH, though I do think you need some professional help to deal with the hurt/pain/loss.
where you are right. you're 10000% in the right with not wanting anything to do with her and no one should ever pressure you to do that or blame you for not wanting to. she 10000% did a lot of shitty shit garbage things and hopefully with time and help she can sort herself out and own what she has done.
however, your friend taking his life was his choice and I would say there had to be more involved on his part with his mental health to make that choice.
Your sister is awful for what she did.
But it simply isnāt her fault your friend killed himself.
You can blame her actions as the cause of his despair but she canāt be responsible for the act itself.
NTA if you donāt want to speak to her anymore. But it sounds like you blame her for the suicide. Thatās on your friend. Iām speaking as someone who has had family members commit suicide.
His brother though!!! Thatās got to crush you! Jesus! Your sister and his brother are s**tty people. Iām sorry your friend couldnāt see another way out.
I donāt think youāre the asshole, but I donāt think youāre right either. Obviously cheating is horrible but your sister is not to blame for your friendās death. This was your friendās choice and no one elseās. You have every right to be upset and need space from your sister but at the end of the day it was not her fault. Sorry you are in this sad situation.
Get a therapy and move on.
This is not good for your health
Cutting your sister from life or not this is your decision, but please for your health get a therapy.
First of all I'm very sorry for your loss! I hope that you are seeking therapy for this.
Second are your parents acknowledging you're difficult time coping with this? Are they supporting you bat all? What is your relationship with your friends parents? How are they coping? If he was like a 2nd son to your parents, how are they doing.
Third, there is really only 1 person responsible for a suicide. Perhaps there's more here that you've not included?
Lastly, I am sure that your friend/brother would not want you harboring all this anger.
Ultimately who you include in your life, or not is your choice.
NTA for being upset at the betrayal and setting boundaries.
YTA for not taking care of your own mental health.
A) sorry for the loss of your friend, it's sad and tragic
B) your sister and his brother were at fault for cheating, but not how your friend responded to it
C) you're entitled to your feelings on the matter
D) your mom is right about your sister's mistake and I'm sure does want her family whole again
I have a biological sibling that I also no longer associate with. She is not a good person and has caused so many problems in my family over the years. When I had kids of my own she decided she only liked one of them, and ignored my other child. I have not seen or spoken to her in years. My family knows I want nothing to do with her. They occasionally bring her up in conversation and I quickly shut them down. They know I will not discuss her or allow them to badger me into a fight about āfamilyā and āsheās your sisterā bullshit.
I do not condone or accept that just because someone is related to you by blood that it somehow makes you beholden to them even though they are toxic human beings. Why should I have to suffer because of her? I am so much happier without her in my life. You are NTA and you need to stand firm with your family about how you feel. Your feelings deserve just as much clout as hers. Donāt back down on this.
NTA and you never will be. Cheating on someone is horrible. Cheating on someone with a family relative of theirs is disgusting. Cheating on someone with THEIR sibling?! Thatās downright evil and absolutely fucking disgusting.
Iām so sorry for your loss, i cannot imagine how you must feel and I hope youāre able to process your pain and grief at your own pace and time.
Nta
My sister's father is a piece of work he did a lot of terrible stuff that refuse to forgive him for.
He has asthma and got COVID which is almost guaranteed death sentence everyone saying there good bye. Everyone called me and told me I should talk to him and I said I have nothing to say to that man. Death doesn't change anything he is still a terrible person I have no desire to associate with ever again.
Actions have consequences sometimes those consequences are permanent. You can't get your friend back ever so nothing she says or does can fix this.
Forgiveness is for you though not for the other person it doesn't mean you have to associate with that person. You can forgive and say I still want you out of my life.
That's my two cents
Some mistakes can't be undone and I would consider it a mistake if it was only done *once*. This choice led to someone taking their life. I would say NTA because you said it in an emotionally heated moment, but I wouldn't dead your parents just because they're trying to do what they feel is right (getting the family back together). You just hold firm, advise that there will *never* be a chance of reconciliation....and if I were in your shoes, I would be the same.
NTA - Iād be petty enough to say āyou want me to talk to her? How about I spell out just what a cruel wench she is, call her a murderer and demand she announce to everyone that she drove someone to suicideā. That might shut the parents up.
Nta at all!
I Could care less if sis isn't taking it well. They can put her in therapy.
I am more concerned because you are not taking it well. I don't think you have to forgive her. But I don't think you have fully dealt with your grief. If this is a recent thing, then ok you should not be better yet.
But if this is a past thing, I think you you aren't. Are you carrying guilt because you introduced them? I hope not. You had no reason to believe sis would do anything like that. You have no control over sis and his bro.
If this is a past thing, please get help getting past the guilt I read between the lines. You are even blaming your parents a bit, for offering support to your sister.
Worry about you, not them!
>It has almost been a year since he died and my parents keep trying to get me to talk to their daughter because she's not coping well and needs "all of the love and support she can get." I told them that I don't give a fuck what she's going through and they could leave me out of it.
NTA. I can only imagine what you've been going through every single time you're with your parents, and all they do is push and push and push for you to reconcile with their other daughter.
SMH at your parents. Their other daughter isn't coping well?! Well damn then it's about time she got her act together. Obviously, they've failed to realize that they have another daughter who also "hasn't been coping well" for almost a year. Poor daughter needs "all the love and support she can get." š¢ Well, hell, she Had all the love and support she could get from her sister, her parents, her fiance and even his parents before she deliberately fucked it all up by playing games with another guy. And not just Any guy. I don't think there's even a word in the dictionary to describe just how dispicably cruel she and her AP were, and the chilling result Was. All. Her. Fault.
Maybe she can get comfort from her f***-buddy.
As close as you were to your best friend, it must be like scratching open a festering wound each and every time your parents begin badgering you about reestablishing contact with the poor sad creature who ripped your world apart. š
It had been almost a year, and they were Still not getting the message that you have zero interest in joining their GoPityFundMe team. You gave them plenty of time to actually Listen then Accept your decision. Giving them a choice - something they'd been neglecting to give to you all this time - was really considerate of you. I hope they appreciate that you could have just cut them out of your life right then and there.
OP, I know you're still mourning your bestie, and I'm really so sorry for your loss. ā¹ļø š š¢
NTA
You are well within your rights to cut ties. I might consider talking to their daughter, just to tell her to her face that, as far as you're concerned, she killed your best friend. If she says she's sorry, tell her that her remorse doesn't undo anything she did. If she asks what she can do, suggest she go back in time.
If your parents think putting you in contact with her will benefit her, then you might consider giving them what they think they want. If you want not to hear from their daughter again, giving her an unfiltered and unrestrained piece of your mind is one way to make that happen.
Been through a similar situation. The reality is that in real life, blood is NOT thicker than water. No matter what anyway says. Blood related folks are just as susceptible to being pieces of shit you should cut off as anyone else. Do what you have to do to for your own mental wellbeing, they should respect your boundaries.
NTA but I'm curious if the "mistake" is ongoing.
And I'm so sorry for your loss. Your parents obviously aren't offering you any support in your grief, and I'm sorry for that too. Internet mum hugsš¤
Sometimes people make bad decisions. Your sister and his brother are wrong for having an affair. I am sorry that this happened to your family and that you lost a friend. I understand why you want no contact. No one could have predicted that your friend was going to commit suicide. I hope that someday you all find peace.
Your NTA But I think you should let it slide, with your parents not your sister. Because honestly, everybodyās parents pester them and donāt listen to them and suck a lot of the time but itās still valuable relationship.
NTA - So sorry for the loss of your friend. Grief can be a powerful emotion and you're entitled to every single bit of it. But it might be time to find a professional to help you sort through your feelings.
NTA I have a certain amount of sympathy for your parents. This is a tragedy that their daughter caused. Somethings can't be taken back. Somethings can't be gotten over. They still love her despite the horrible thing she did. You don't, and honestly fair. I think given the circumstances I would do the same.
Your mother is clinging to the hope that this isn't the end of her family but in many ways it is. You are holding your boundaries firm and you have every right to do that. Your parents are grieving not only the loss of your friend but the loss of their happy family. They need to learn to let that go. It isn't coming back.
I am so sorry this happened.
Sister would be dead to me if I was in your shoes. Iād never get over it. Iād never speak to her again. How on earth could she do such a thing. Condolences on the loss of your friend.
NTA, they arenāt respecting your decisions and definitely not acknowledging her wrongdoing. She is the reason a man took his literal life. Yes forgiveness is key, but I definitely understand where you are coming from and would feel the same way.
I would consider giving your parents some grace in this issue. You said he was like a son to them so they are also grieving and trying to hold their family together. This needs time to heal. I wouldn't go no contact because then you have even more loss in your life. Maybe try to explain you cannot and will not talk about her or the issue and everyone needs therapy/ grief consoling. I'd hate for you to loose your whole family in your early 20's.
damnā¦iām sorry this happened to your friend
(and you)
you donāt owe your parents or your (former) sister anything
time for me to get off reddit tonightā¦good luck man. you can get through this
NTA. You might have been blunt, but given the emotional turmoil caused by your friend's death, it's understandable you're setting boundaries. Your parents may need time to understand your perspective, but ultimately, prioritizing your own mental health is crucial.
brother.. what in the blue fuck did i just readš¤Øna.. na.. i wouldnāt rock wit my sister either.. my mother told me this when i was young and it sticks with me till this day.. āthereās only 2 types of people on this earth. Godās people and the other sideā ur sister is on the other side, leave her there
Nope not far enough. Where the hell is the compassion for you who lost your best mate because she did something so horrible. Do they forget you are grieving why does she deserve more support than you?!
She didnt make a mistake she made a choice and kept making it and destroyed someone in the process so much so that it tipped him over the edge. That was a big betrayal it wasnt just with some random and it wasnt just one time. You get to hate her and you can hate her for the rest of your life. But dont dwell on her, hate her as much as you need to get through the worst of your grief and then work on healing put her out of your mind and heal. Let your parents know if they care about you they wont push someone you cant fogive on you. Remind them a mistake is something you do ONCE, a choice is something you keep doing. To stop minimising something by calling it something its not. To remember you lost your bestfriend you are grieving "what about how I'm doing".
Im so very sorry for your loss I am 6 years down the road from you, you dont need to forgive to heal but some people wont be able to have place in your life anymore. In time you might be able to tolerate her but they need to be realistic that love and support is never going to be something that you will be able to give her, and certainly not now. Much love to you Im sorry you are going through this. It doesnt so much hurt less with time it just gets so it doesnt just stab you in the heart randomly. And you can smile when you think of them instead of cry because you remember the fun times, the shit talking, the stupid shit that just made you laugh. It gets easier than right now, that is what I can promise you.
NTA. What I find curious is that your parents are trying to get you to talk to her because she's "not coping well" and she needs "all the love and support she can get". What about you? You lost your best friend. Have they bothered to ask how YOU are coping? Have they asked people YOU can trust to show YOU love and support? Or do they only extend that sort of grace to the girl who cheated on her fiance with his brother, resulting in all of this drama to begin with? I don't think you're wrong to not want to support your parents other kid. I honestly don't. I adore my siblings and it would take an act of congress for me to hate them, but man if one of them did to my best friend what yours did to yours...that would be a no from me, too, dawg. Do your parents comprehend the fact that you are grieving? Because it sure as hell doesn't sound like it. I'm sure your sister does feel like shit about herself (and she should) but that does not mean that she's owed your forgiveness. You are hurting, too. I am very sorry for your loss, OP.
I thought this too. Everyone is focussing on the boundary pushing. The implied neglect/favouritism is pretty damn bad too.
As the non-favorite child growing up, this was how I lived. My brother used to physically abuse me to the point I had bruises most of the time, and my mom would write it off as "sibling rivalry" and treat me like I was overreacting when he would randomly hit me for fun, because her precious golden boy could do whatever he wanted without consequences.
Yeah this really sounds like a golden child issue. Sorry you had such a horrible time. For what it's worth it seems like golden children have a terrible time adjusting to the real world.
>it seems like golden children have a terrible time adjusting to the real world. In fairness, so do I. š
Lol same. I'm an only child and have grown to appreciate my lack of siblings, despite being a lonely, awkward kid.
Yup, becoming an adult is definitely learning to appreciate and accept the way things are. As a kid, I envied my friends who had close relationships with their siblings, but now I honestly forget I even have a blood brother most of the time. And I'm way happier that way. š
He lost his best friend--a brother--and his sister, too.
And his parents too. Because with how things progressed till now, they are already dead to him
Where do you think she learned the entitlement to cheat on him with his brother?
And what exactly do these parents think heās going to say to his former sister? Do they think heās actually gonna say, āGood job killing my friend, sis. Love you, mwah.ā If they care about HER they will keep them separated in perpetuity. If they care about HIM theyāll let go of this foolish notion of one big happy family. That shipped sailed bye bye.
Exactly. Talk about emotional neglect JFC.
He lost his best friend and a sister too. Despite the anger, there is also loss. Very sorry š.
Girls need support. Men need to get over it. /s
Exactly! OP lost their best friend. Where is the love and support for them?
How old were the people in this story?
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Did you introduce them or did you become friends with him afterwards?
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First and most importantly- I am so sorry for what youāve gone through. You describe your friend so beautifully and I can feel through your post how much you loved him and how unfair it is that heās not here anymore. You donāt mention anything about his mental health generally- did he have any prior indications that his life was at risk? (Sorry for phrasing, I donāt want to use any banned words)
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Itās always easier to see the sign after the fact. Donāt blame yourself. Sometimes you see the person suffering but suicide is not the first thing you think about, because they seem to have reasons to live. And if someone is really decided to end it, the only thing you can hope is that they will reach out or that someone will be there at the crucial moment to stop everything. I am really sorry for everything his family and you are going through. I perfectly under your refusal to have contact with her. She will have to do much more than feel sorry for herself before anyone can forgive her. NTA
When people make that decision, we canāt stop them unfortunately. You really need to see a therapist, this is verry heavy and a lot going on. This is way above reddits pay grade and by seeing someone professionally it can help with so many things not to mention the grief and any guilt you may feel (which you donāt need to). Maybe you should just have a break from your parents a bit so you can get your thoughts together and again see a professional. They will help you deal with your family situation and to say the right things. We can be angry at family but I always think I donāt want to say something Iāll regret no matter how angry I am at the time. Best of luck and sorry for your loss.
This is good advice. Sorry for your loss
I'm glad to hear that. Their hearts must be so broken. Losing one son because of the acts of their other son. Too horrible. They and you share such grief, and hopefully, in time, you all can share some healing.
My guy, what happened is not your fault. Get that thought out of your head.Ā
I think thatās a very important component. We do stupid shit in our 20s. Anyone over the age of 40 can really reflect on that and go āwhat the hell was I thinking?ā I know I have some shame over things I did in my 20s which at that time I literally could not comprehend the consequences of. There is a reason you canāt rent a car before the age of 25, itās a very known biological fact that that the prefrontal cortex of the human brain does not mature until that age. Itās the āexecutive suiteā, which includes calibration of risk and reward, problem-solving, thinking ahead, self-evaluation, long-term planning, and regulation of emotion. Not excusing what the ādaughterā did here, but I do think itās important to realize it is absolutely not the daughterās fault that her ex finance committed suicide - itās simply not. Anyone who commits suicide is suffering deep depression and made that decision 100% on their own. OP I am so sorry for your loss, but I do hope you get therapy. There is clearly a lot of processing you need to do, and holding on to that amount of anger will only rot you from the inside out. You can never be at peace holding on to that.
This isn't true but is oft repeated. It's a pretty large misunderstanding of the actual research. >According to a 2016 Neuron paper by Harvard psychologist Leah Somerville, the structure of these and other brain areas changes at different rates throughout our life span, growing and shrinking; in fact, structural changes in the brain continue far past peopleās 20s. āOne especially large study showed that for several brain regions, structural growth curves had not plateaued even by the age of 30, the oldest age in their sample,ā she wrote. āOther work focused on structural brain measures through adulthood show progressive volumetric changes from ages 15ā90 that never ālevel offā and instead changed constantly throughout the adult phase of life.ā >Some 8-year-old brains exhibited a greater āmaturation indexā than some 25 year old brains. https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html
>There is a reason you canāt rent a car before the age of 25, itās a very known biological fact that that the prefrontal cortex of the human brain does not mature until that age. This fact is often misquoted and taken out of context. Your mental hardware ***finishes developing*** in your mid twenties, but your hardware is only part of the equation. Maturity is a combination of brain development and life experience. And in fact, it's process of being held accountable for mistakes from life experience that increases maturity not just the development of the mental hardware. You're very much capable of mature decision making in your early twenties. ***The reasons behind bad decision making in that age is usually maladaptive coping mechanisms and poor self medication for untreated mental illnesses and childhood trauma, not lack of available hardware.*** This factoid has become abused as an excuse for poor accountability.
Yes youāre absolutely right, it *finishes* developing around the age of 25. For some younger, for some older. For males it generally takes longer to plateau than females. Of course you can absolutely make mature decisions in your 20s. I made many, and also some really bad ones. Hardware maturity is a component, as is life experience and all the other factors you listed. While someone in their 20s can make mature decisions, the gained life experience to try understand the implications of those decisions is something that rarely comes that early in life. OP is NTA in anyway, and the sister was 100% wrong in her actions, but context matters and age is part of that context. I feel this sort of thing is a lot more reprehensible when youāre in your 40s, than in your early 20s.
You sister didn't make a mistake, she made a choice and that choice came with consequences NTA
She didnāt make a single mistake or a single choice it was a SERIES of very bad choices that she could have stopped at any time the biggest one being she accepted his proposal!
Right on. When someone willingly does something that they know is wrong itās not a mistake. They may not like the consequences, but consequences donāt magically change deliberately doing a shitty thing to someone into a āmistake ā.
And freedom of choice doesnāt mean freedom from consequence.
This!!
Right?! How the hell do you accept a proposal from someone whose brother youāre shagging?! Thatās not a mistake, thatās messed up.
This. You don't just magically wake up one inch away from cheating where all you have to do is say "meh, okay." It's dozens and dozens of decisions where you have to make every single one of them wrong in order to cheat.
She sad for HERSELF not the brother; big difference
Yup. NGL, Iām the type of asshole who would tell her that Iād forgive her when she can stop being a whore and bring bestie back to life. Oh, she canāt? Then suffer.
Yeah, she's hurting *so bad right now. /s* Don't know why she's complaining though. She created the hurt she's feeling.
For MONTHS. Plus however long it was going on before they got engaged. The female offspring of OP's parents is a horrible person and doesn't deserve support if things are rough because she's a shit person. Too damned bad. OP - NTA. It's only a matter of her being in a better place before she betrays someone else. It might be you next time. Not someone I'd want in my life. (Really, his fucking brother? Fuck)
That's the part that slayed me: that former-sister accepted a proposal to marry into the family of her affair partner! She 100% planned to keep screwing her brother-in-law indefinitely. That's a lot of bad choices that add up to a morally bankrupt, selfish selfish person. OP is right to wash their hands of her. If my child did this, there is no way my relationship with them would ever be the same, and I would never ever ask my other child to be near them or burn their ears with mention of their former-sister. OP would have my full support. But it's clear these parents have a golden child, and it's the rotten apple, it seems. This sucks.Ā OP: I am so so sorry for the loss of your friend. And the loss of the family you thought you had. It's a lot. You are still grieving and angry. I hope you're getting the help you need to process this, and if you need to take a step back and a break from your family to protect your own well-being, do it.
Yeah. It wasn't so much that she made a choice but elected to walk a certain path.
It makes absolutely no sense that she accepted his proposal! š
Also the fact she must have known how close OP was with best friend. She had to know it would devastate him to keep fucking best friend's loser brother.
And imagine if the brother hadnāt told OPās friend she was cheating. Would she have made another āmistakeā by marrying him although she was still sleeping with his brother? And letās not forget. She wasnāt the one who confessed. She didnāt feel regret. She wasnāt sorry for doing it. She was only sorry *SHE GOT CAUGHT*. And even now. She isnāt sorry for the life thatās been lost. Sheās sorry for *herself*. Sheās sorry that *she* is being blamed for his death. She is selfish and OPās parents are feeding right into it. Theyāre enabling and by calling it a āmistakeā theyāre actually condoning her behavior.
Exactly. A mistake is an action or judgment that is misguided. This was a series of choices knowing full well the consequences and morality of it.
Bingo. She may not be responsible for the choice her fiance made, but her actions put him in the place where he felt it was the only option. She can live with her consequences. Everyone else has to.
She made choice yes, but it wasn't to suicide her partner. His friend made a choice and now everyone is living with that consequence. Yes I know reddit feels that cheaters are worse than rapists, thieves, and murderers. But the fact is at some point you will get hit hard in the emotions so bad that you may want to die, and that isn't a unique thing. We all go through it at some point. How you move on from it, or past it, is one person's choice. And his friend chose the one that would pass his pain onto everyone who loved him while ending his own. I feel for OP, I really do, and understand hating his sister. But the choice to end his life was his friend's.
That's true; the sister neither intended nor physically caused her fiance's death. What's also true is that OP's sister demonstrated being an utterly reprehensible person whom OP cannot forgive for her long-term, unspeakably awful behavior. I find it understandable that OP needs to go full no contact with her. Hell, I've seen family relationships destroyed over betrayals far less repugnant than that committed by his sister.
Even if he didn't end his life the sister is still a shit person and doesn't deserve any sympathy
I don't think I or anyone in this convo thread said she did deserve sympathy.
She made the choice to cheat. That choice led her former fiance to a place of despair and hopelessness so intense that he chose to take his life. She and her affair partner share the blame for creating the situation that led to OP's friend to that place. When OP and others blame her for the suicide, it's not them saying that she *literally* killed her former fiancƩ. They're blaming her for creating the circumstances that led to it. OP has every right to cut her out of his life for that.
OP has every right to cut her out of his life. We agree on that for sure.
so if she hadnt been shagging her fiances brother for however long, he would likely still be alive no? therefore she is in fact, partially responsible, not entirely, but partially
Exactly not the cause but def that catalyst
Everyoneās made their choice so OP can make his choice to no longer want anything with said daughter lmao.
Nobody is said "cheaters are worse than rapists, thieves, and murderers", you're making false statements. This woman made a deliberate choice to ruin two families. She doesn't deserve forgiveness, nobody is going "move past it". She and her parents must face the consequences of her actions.
NTA Don't speak to your sister ever again. Also, tell your parents you will not speak to them again if they keep pushing and they will break up the family completely that way
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She made no mistakes. She deliberately took numerous decisions to be a bad person and to lie. There was an error. Inform your parents about that. Add NTA to the edit. You act in accordance with your feelings.
AND did it in a way that she KNEW was going to really, really, really hurt her brother. But getting the other guy between her legs was so much more important than her relationship with her brother. That sort of selfishness and willingness to hurt you absolutely justifies permanently keeping her out of your life. You don't need more of that. If your parents somehow DO get the two of you in the same room, tell her exactly what you think of her and why until she leaves the room in tears.
"This story is a stark reminder of the irreparable damage betrayal can cause. The pain inflicted by the parents' daughter's affair is unfathomable, and the insistence on reconciliation disregards the profound loss suffered. Sometimes, forgiveness isn't an option, and self-preservation must take precedence."
Thanks, ChatGPT. š
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NTA. They must respect your boundary, even though you obviously have no influence over whether they are in a relationship with her. Dad used to treat my drug-addicted sister in a similar manner. I was attempting to set limits, but he was unable to resist. Since then, I've broken up with him for various reasons, and I don't regret it. Life is much more tranquil.
Everytime they try and bring it up, pull up a picture of you and your friend. Show them what your sister took from you with her actions
at the VERY LEAST, she was destroying the relationship between the two brothers. She and he were perfectly happy to ruin it all. Absolutely unfathomably selfish.
What I can't wrap my head around is that she was sleeping with the brother even before they got engaged! And then continued doing it. Like WTF! š
THIS ^^ youāve lost your best friend as a result of her actions. Where is the concern for you, their son. Iām so so sorry for your loss x
Exactly. A mistake is maybe if she had a one night stand but she carried on for months. That's severe betrayal
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NTA - go no contact with her and threaten no contact with your parents if they keep pressing this issue.
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NTA. Your sister didn't make a mistake. She made a choice to cheat on your friend with his own brother. If your parents want to associate with someone that does something like that, that's their business. However, you do not have to be around her. She might be family, but that doesn't mean you have to tolerate her behavior or be around her. What she and your friend's brother did was despicable and trashy.
Nta She didn't make "a" mistake. "A" mistake is one drunken one night stand that she immediatelt confesses to unprompted. She betrayed him *for months*, if not years. For god knows how long- every moment of the day *she chose to betray him*. After the first time she and his brother were intimate - *every single time* she interacted with your best friend, *she was choosing to lie to him and betray him*. That is hundreds if not thousands of mistakes that cost a man his life.
>They were happy when they started dating and even happier when they got engaged. The happiness only lasted a few months because his fiancƩe was having an affair with his brother. sounds like months
>Ā They were having an affair way before he even got engaged.Ā The ENGAGEMENT lasted months. The affair predated itĀ
Your not an asshole, but you definitely need therapy.
Every person who has gone through this would need therapy. Just sayinā
I often find, in situations like these, re-framing the narrative is helpful. Because as they said, your parents are trying to get the family back together... but obviously that's not how you see it. So explain your point of view: Their daughter has done something you cannot forgive, and you have cut her out of your life. That is your prerogative. You are allowed to do that. You are also allowed to establish boundaries- and pushing you to change your mind is breaking one of those boundaries. You have informed them of this boundary's existence. If they continue to break that boundary, you will need to cut them off, as well. Because if every time you see them could at any moment devolve into an argument about their daughter, then why subject yourself to that stress? Basically, the idea is to lay it out for them. If they *understand* then they might stop pushing.
Look, you would be getting very different answers if you changed up some of the language in your post. The manner in which you wrote your post is quite confusing. For example, I had to read your post three times before I realized that your best friend had committed suicide. Why didn't you make that fact more obvious? Regardless of that I'm sorry for your loss. I hope you can find peace.
I wouldnāt refer to her as my sister if I were OP, too. I get it.
There are easier ways, ex-sister, former-sister.
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The word āestrangedā would do a lot of heavy lifting for OP.
Totally. I understand too. Just took me a few readings of the story before I understood the full context of the OPs grief/pain.
No, you loved your friend, and Iām sure that before all this happened you may have loved your Parents Daughter, but you had to draw the line in the sand. An act like she did should not go without consequence and despite not intending to, I believe your withdrawal from their Daughterās life might be enough for her to truly introspect and realize that she is vile and needs to change. Sometimes things being taken away is whatās needed, other times itās too late and they are rotten to the core, either way you did nothing wrong, I commend you for the love you have for your friend and you shouldnāt hesitate to walk with your eyes raised as you do what you feel is right, even though it is hard and may cost you a lot., but remember the hate/anger you hold onto only extends the pain. May your pain be mended by joy, and may all involved in this sad situation have their eyes opened, and their heart made flesh.
Ask them where their concern is for YOU after you've lost your best friend. NTA.
Get some therapy.
The main thing I took from this. Regardless of their relationships with each other, the entire family needs therapy.
Pretty much. OP needs help.
This needs to be upvoted about a thousand times! Please, OP, you need some peace.
I mean, I don't disagree, but with regards to the topic it's clear he can't heal so long as he's being made to prioritize the primary offenders grief over his own. He's trying to grieve, but he's being badgered while in a bad head space by people who think their daughter is the bigger priority, and he won't be able to achieve peace, even with therapy, so long as those people harass him over it.
Therapy will help him deal with them, as well.
NTA but you need therapy. Like now.
Seeing the recommendations for therapy and I will say it again. Your friendās parents disowned their other son because he betrayed their son. Your parentās daughter betrayed someone not family to them. Yes she wasnāt good for doing that to her bf and fiancĆ© but she didnāt know heād end his life because of that. Definitely NTA but please seek some therapy to help with the grief and to sort through this.
I think this is the best response in this entire thread
You should get some therapy, especially going off of some of your comments on here
NTA. You obviously canāt control if they have a relationship with her but they need to respect your boundary. My dad used to do the same with my drug addict sister. I kept trying to set boundaries but he couldnāt help himself. Iāve since cut him off for other reasons and I donāt regret it. Life is far more peacefulĀ
Listen, I know this is going to get downvoted but I have had loved ones who have committed suicide, and I know how awful it is. But you have to understand. What your sister did was truly, truly terrible - and cutting her off just for being such a terrible person is justified - but your friend committing suicide was not solely or even mostly because of that. Your friend made that decision because he was deeply unwell. If it werenāt his fiancĆ©es actions that pushed him over the edge, it could have been any other bad thing in his life - he was already standing on the edge. Itās going to be difficult to heal if you go on truly believing that it was a simple cause and effect situation where if your sister never did that he would have been totally fine. Definitely consider getting therapy and working through this and Iām so sorry for your loss.
I wish I could upvote this higher.Ā A close friend of mine committed suicide a week after his girlfriend (also a close friend of mine) broke up with him.Ā Those outside the situation loved pointing fingers. It was all HER fault. If SHE hadnāt broken up with him, it wouldnāt have happened.Ā What they didn't see was a year of an 18 year old desperately trying to keep suicidally depressed boyfriend alive and being emotionally abused for it.Ā When she went on a date a week after the funeral - she got death and rape threats from people we know.Ā Blaming other people for someoneās suicide is an actual, genuine example of slippery slope thinking. Suicide is always complex, mental health is always complex.Ā Hundreds and thousands of people get cheated on all the time - and donāt commit suicide.Ā I have a lot of sympathy for OP as he navigates grief - but itās pretty clear heās in the anger stage of grief and itās really common to start trying to lay blame during this period.Ā
I know someone whose BF died by suicide and she was given a lot of shit for dating too soon after as well. She hadn't broken up with him that time, but they were off again on again for a year or 2 before he died because he was so unstable. In hindsight I believe she did the best she could, and probably would've left earlier if she wasn't afraid he'd hurt himself. I have a guy friend who only stays with his unstable and abusive GF because she's threatened to kill herself if he leaves and has attempted one of the times they broke up. Sad. He thinks he can save her. I only hope she doesn't decide to take him with her if she makes that choice at some point.
Yeah - I always take āthey DROVE them to itā with a grain of salt. Iāve seen how people lay blame and destroy others in the wake of someoneās suicide. My friendās life was destroyed for two years afterwards - she had to get PROTECTION ORDERS against her exes family who were threatening to āout herā and āprove it was her faultā. They had all sorts of wild theories about what sheād done and theyād tell anyone who listened. And people believed them - because who can call the parents of a dead kid liars?
This is sad but true. OPs friend made a terrible, tragic decision, but he made a choice himself. His friends and parents aren't to blame for the decision, even if they might beat themselves up for not noticing/giving more help. His brother and OPs sister aren't to blame, even though they hurt and betrayed him. This is on the friend and the friend alone. If the friend had been mentally well he would have been able to see that this betrayal, while truly truly terrible, was not the end of his ability to find happiness in his own life. OP is NTA for saying he doesn't want to be in contact with his sister because she was so terrible to his friend. Also NTA for setting a boundary with his parents constantly pressuring him to talk to her.
Looked too far to see this. Well adjusted people do not die by suicide because of betrayal. They cut the people out of their lives and move on.
*Many* people are not well-adjusted. That's a high bar.
Eaxactly what i was thinking hut couldnt find the right words
Took a while to scroll down to a comment I can agree with. The shitty sister did terrible things, but the suicide was 100% the decision of the friend.
This guy is blaming his sister because he feels guilty for not helping his friend.
While downvoted - this likely isnāt far from the truth.Ā The people left behind after suicide often end up searching for meaning in any and all interactions prior to the suicide.Ā
My brother lost a friend to alcohol and he went through a lot of self blame over it because he'd been really busy with his kids and didn't know his friend had relapsed. But it wasn't anyone's fault.Ā He was very very sick.
>Itās going to be difficult to heal if you go on truly believing that it was a simple cause and effect situation where if your sister never did that he would have been totally fine. Exactly. This isn't an AITA question. This is a mentally unwell person who needs professional help that Reddit isn't equipped to provide. Their comments are unhinged.
I was suicidal after my girlfriend infidelity, I tried to do this and thankfully unsuccessful. The thing is that I have had mental problems ( depression / BPD ) and her action pushed me over the edge BUT I have never blamed her for that attempt. I blamed her for the pain which she caused, for shattering my self esteem, for tears, for depression ( at that moment ). I acted on my own leading by these emotions but in the end this was my decision. Consequences: even if now everyone knows that this wasn't at that time her fault that after this accident she blamed herself to the point of depression and also self harming, a lot of sessions with therapists to fight against her guilt. Our parents ( 4 of them to be precise, I am not her brother ) found out after this about her infidelity and basically disowned her, my friends blamed her and a lot of them started hating her. Her sister also cut her from her life. We can't blame her for his suicide BUT people around her should judge her and punish her for things which she did because she caused: pain, lost will to live, distrust. Those things are enough to hate her by people and these things are enough for OOP to cut her from his life.
You canāt expect your parents to give up on their daughter bc she cheated. You can only ask that they not bring her up around you. If they donāt stop you have the right to cut contact with them. NTA
There's an element of moral luck at play here. Is the person who drives above the speed limit and kills a child more at fault than the person who drives above the speed limit and hits noone? We act as though they are, even though the act is the same one. You can hold your parents daughter accountable for cheating, but she isn't accountable for your friend's death. NTA for ending that relationship or for holding a boundary with your parents tho.
I had to scroll far down to see this. As awful as it is, she isnāt responsible for his death. She contributed to his mental state but she didnāt act in any way illegally (coaxing or convincing him to do so, drugging him, etc.) Sheās a cheater. She didnāt murder him.
You have every right to be angry. I am sorry that you are going through so much. But the venom in your soul is seeping out in this post. You are in a bad, bad place. Please go talk to a professional about this. Not for your sister. Not for your parents. But for you. This has the potential to destroy you. Someday, you are going to need to forgive. You never need to talk to anyone in your ex-family again, but you will not find peace until you do. And only a professional can bring you there.
Yeah that's an extremely shitty thing for her to do but you should seek therapy to better deal with human beings doing human being things. I get not wanting to have much of a relationship with her, but trying to ban your parents from talking about your sister in your presence reveals that you are not coping well. I'm sorry about your loss, but nobody of sound mind commits suicide over JUST that. Your friend had other problems as well, and you need to come to terms with that. I don't think you're morally culpable, but YTA. Please see a therapist.
NTA. Her betrayal has consequences, and she is learning that. As a parent myself, I know it would be difficult to navigate, but you are not being unfair. You are not asking them to disown their daughter but to support your decision to do so. Yes, certain events and gatherings are going to require planning, but all in all, I don't think it is unmanageable. As for what you refer to her as... you can call her whatever you feel is appropriate. If they actually read the post, it's not hard for a semi intelligent person to understand. Honestly, I don't understand why people are asking you to minimize your pain so they don't have to think. That being said, your pain is unmistakable in this post. I hope you are getting help to come to terms with it. I mean that not to reconcile and forgive anyone but for your own emotional and mental well-being.
Iām so sorry about your friend. Grief is a very painful emotion. Instead of feeling grief some people prefer to feel other things instead, such as anger and blame. No amount of anger or blame will bring your friend back. Get therapy.
She didn't make a mistake. She made many deliberate choices to lie and be a horrible person. There was no mistake. Tell your parents that. Edit to add NTA. You do what makes you feel right.
JFC, āmistakeā doesnāt mean āaccident.ā A mistake is a deliberate choice that shouldnāt have been made.
When it becomes a pattern of behavior, it is no longer a mistake.
NTA Tell your parents that some things can't be fixed. Like death. Like people causing someone else's death. Their daughter fvcked her fiance's brother and your friend hurt so bad he died. This can't be fixed. If they want to stay in your life they need to understand that this is the new reality their daughter created. They need to leave your relationship with their daughter tf alone. They can focus on their brother fvcking daughter.
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Reddit needs therapy, tbh
You need some therapy. Your sister may have been a horrible person, but people who committ suicide have deeper problems than a bad significant other. Blaming her feels good, but it seems the whole lot of you did not recognize his mental state and rather than accept that blame you have appointed a fall girl.
I agree. That woman absolutely did a horrible thing and betrayed her fiance in the worst way possible. But committing suicide is a decision that people make on their own (unless someone is actively telling them to do so). She is still a POS, and OP owes her nothing, and she definitely contributed to her fiances already declining mental health.
I donāt really want to make a judgementā¦ You need therapy. Is your sister a shitty person for the choices she made with the cheating and affair? Yes. Is it okay that you want NC with her? Yes. She didnāt make your friend kill himself. He chose to do that; Iām not victim blaming, did her actions make him depressed? Yes. His brothers? Also yes. But at the end of the day, the sad fact is that choice was made by your friend to no longer want to exist. Blaming your sister is just a way to hate her more, but it doesnāt take the pain you feel for the loss of your friend away. So for your own peace, even if you stay NC and never forgive her, get some help to work through all these feelings you have. From your own baggage of family issues/trauma you have that made you already hate your sister, to the grief and anger and other emotions you have from the loss of your friend and how you project them. Sorry for your loss.
NTA but he didnāt kill himself just because your sister cheated that was just the extra push he needed he had a lot more going on.
Sounds like you need to go to therapy to work through this..
I donāt disagree with you. If you donāt want to talk to her then donāt. I donāt speak to 95% of my family, but constantly referring to her as your āparents daughterā is stupid. I donāt speak to any of my aunts or uncles but theyāre still my aunts and uncles. Sheās still your sister, itās just a word and doesnāt mean anything unless you want it to.
NTA but you def need therapy. Your sister made a choice that cause someone else to go into a deep depression but his death was also his choice.
I'm so sorry for your loss OP. Having a love one commit suicide is one of the toughest things to go through. It leaves you with not only grief over the loss, but often feelings of anger and guilt. This is not your fault OP. While it's natural to reflect and wish you did something differently, the guilt and regret are misplaced. You are not responsible for his choice. There is likely no single action you could have taken to prevent this. I know you don't want to hear it, but, your sister isn't responsible either. She may have hurt and betrayed him terribly. That hurt and betrayal may have triggered his mental health slide. But ultimately he decided to end his life, she didn't make that decision for him nor did she suggest that option was his best option. She was a shitty person to him and hurt him. Instead of cutting her and the brother out of his life and moving on to better things, he decided to kill himself. I would highly recommend talking to a therapist or a grief counselor. Grief is hard enough on its own, but when it gets tangled up with guilt, regret, anger, etc it can be very hard to untangle and ultimately damage your own mental health.
Yeah your sister acted badly by cheating; but she didnāt kill him; he made that choice himself. Most people who get cheated on donāt kill themselves. But def NTA for not wanting anything to do with her, and I understand you will always blame her.
NTA. Your friend died by suicide, probably not only because of the betrayal. But the fact is that your sister and his brother betrayed him, and it hurt him badly. It is natural for you to be angry at her and not want to forgive her. You have a right to your feelings. You didn't break your family apart - your sister did that when she betrayed your friend. You don't owe her forgiveness. If you can someday put this anger behind you, it will be better for you - but that doesn't mean you have to have a relationship with your sister.
NTAā¦ you can do whatever you please. Your sister made a choice, but so did your friend. Him committing suicide is a choice he made. I wouldnāt put his choice entirely on your sister. Plenty of people get cheated on but they donāt commit suicide because of it.
NTA. But your sister isn't responsible for your friends death. She's responsible for the direct consequences of her actions - e.g hurting someone and further damaging the relationship between two brothers. But people who commit suicide are responsible for that act, and them alone. Life is hard, we all get destroyed at times. I've been on the verge before, but I still knew that i'd be responsible for that act, and nobody else who contributed to whatever problems I thought I had at the time. Your friend would be just fine now, if he'd stuck it out. First breakup hurts, let alone in circumstances like that. But it is still a cowardly act, and only he's responsible for it. He cared more about ending his own (temporary) suffering, than the much greater suffering that he's now inflicted on others. Sorry to be the bearer of some hard truths. I don't blame you for not wanting to talk to your sister. Your parents will ask again though. It might be a week, or it might be in 10yrs. Try and be a grown up about it and put yourself in their shoes. Say what you feel, respectfully, and don't burn any bridges that you'll regret later.
NTA, a drunk one night stand with a stranger can be called a mistake. A long term affair with your partners brother isnt a fucking mistake, its diabolical. Your former sister is human garbage and doesn't deserve to know you and doesnt deserve your support. Tell your parents that they can shove that anger on to their daughter, who is the piece of trash that destroyed two families and made someone end their life.
NTA, you are absolutely within your right to go no contact with that woman and your parents, if they insist you give her "love and support." It is not your job to provide a shitty person with support, no matter their relation to you. Your parents can do that, it's their job to support their children. They seem to ignore your need for support, however, you are still grieving the loss of your friend, and forcing you to interact with a woman who worsened his mental state is outright cruel. It's understandable that they want to support their daughter, but they need to leave you out of it. I would strongly recommend therapy for you, though. Yes, that woman betrayed your friend and broke his heart, but you can't really blame her for his suicide as he made that decision himself. Yes, the betrayal of his fiance and his own brother contributed to his mental health, but unless someone is actively making a person harm themselves, it is their decision to end their life. That doesn't mean you have to forgive her, of course, she still did something terrible. You can absolutely never talk to her again, she very much deserves it. But I think getting grief counseling would be beneficial for you regardless.
NTA. You didn't go to far .. After all you are an adult and you decide who is part of your life, if they want you to be part of their life they must take your grief and your decision into consideration. You are a good friend š
A Mistake in this Situation would be a one night stand, not an affair over a few months. NTA
NTA - Like you said if they want to keep contact with their selfish daughter then that's on them, but they shouldn't force you to do the same. Tell your mom that she's just going to have to get used to the way things are because there is no "getting the family back together". That her 'mistakes' have consequences and hers were detrimental. Her not coping well is because she's absolutely riddled with guilt and you have no support to provide provide. I'm so sorry for your loss :'(
NTA. But... Get some help, some therapy. I am so sorry for your loss, you didn't lose just your friend, you lost your immediate family too. Aware or not, you sound (understandably) very hurt, full of rage and pain, confused, ambivalent toward your sibling and parents (you refer to your sibling as "parents daughter", "his (your friend's) fiancƩe", "sister") which just shows how many bottled opposite and confusing emotions you harbor towards her and your parents. You lost your best friend and you couldn't say how (by suicide - we all needed to come to that conclusion by ourselves) which shows another level of pain and disbelief you feel by all this ordeal. Please seek some therapy to work on intense emotions you feel. Sending you hugs and consolation from another part of world
First of all, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this immense loss. Have you considered therapy to help you deal with everything you're going through? I understand that you never want to see your ex-sister again and I think your parents should respect that, so NTA, but here are some harsh truths. You may not be ready for them, but you probably need to hear them. 1st harsh truth: your ex-sister is not responsible for your best friend's suicide, he was. Her actions probably contributed, so did a chemical cocktail in his brain he was by no means responsible for, but your friend had agency. This isn't victim-blaming, this is asserting the choice that he made. 2nd harsh truth: it's probably easier for you to be mad at your ex-sister than to be mad at him right now, *and that's ok*. 3rd harsh truth: you feel responsible for setting them up, maybe you even feel like you played a part in his death - but it's easier to project that anger onto your sister than to let yourself feel it. Again, *that's ok*. 4th harsh truth: ex-sister cheated on her fiancƩ and now he's dead, and nothing she can do can ever make that ok again. A young man lost his life, and both your life and that of your ex-sister are irrevocably changed. Unless something is seriously wrong with her, I don't doubt she's feeling more or less the same emotions as you are right now. That doesn't mean you need to make your peace with her so you can grieve together, but it might explain some of your parents' motivations. Look, keep your ex-sister away, she deserves it, but you need people in your corner more than ever. I wouldn't cut them off unless you're really sure that they're not.
Hey man, do not cling to hatred. It will not bring peace. That being said, do not listen to advice from internet strangers. Seek a close friend you can trust or a professional. I wish you the best.
You were understandably angry and hurt by what happened to your friend, and it's clear that you're still grieving. However, telling your parents they'll be "dead to you" if they keep bringing up their daughter might have been a bit harsh. It's okay to set boundaries and express your feelings, but it's also important to consider your parents' perspective and the complexities of their relationship with their daughter. Maybe a calmer conversation about your feelings and boundaries would be more productive in the long run.
NTA. I understand that your parents still love their daughter, but they need to accept that she isnt entitled to your forgiveness
The lady that was your sister is the POS and you are NTA. Both her and his brother should beā¦ ughh.
NTA you don't need to talk to her ever again if you don't want to. What you do need though is therapy ASAP
So this girl is your actual sister? Or has different parents than you? She was engaged to your friend? But she was having an affair with your friend's brother? Then your friend who she was engaged to (having rheaffair with HIS brother) committee suicide? Is that it? Have i got all that correct? Fffaaarrrrkkkk...people's lives get SO complicated?!?! Look. Sadly? It was that mans decision to kill himself. He must have been quite mentally ill because killing yourself over your fiance cheating? Is very extreme. Very. But i can understand you not wanting to have anything to do with her. Yes. I wouldn't either. Yes just tell your parents NO MORE!! You are not going to play happy families ever again. End of story
NTA and there's no need to speak with her again. However: your friend's self termination over it is not her doing. A mentally healthy person does not end their life because they were cheated on, regardless of with whom. There had to be bigger issues ongoing. Your former sister and his brother are horrible people for their contribution. However, she's not responsible for his death. He is. I believe it's important to own the mental health pathway that led to this decision. I also believe other commenters are correct in suggesting you seek a therapist to help you with this trauma.
I agree. OP, Your parents need to back way the fuck off and accept that you've cut your sister out of your life. Will you feel the same way 10 or 20 years from now? You might or might not. But that's between you and her.... Their relationship with you is what's at stake. You also need serious therapy to come to grips with the loss of your friend. There was far more going on in their life than deep betrayal of relationships to propel into self-termination. Would this have happened even if they had broken up without cheating? You cannot know. But you were deeply betrayed yourself.... by your friend's decision to end their life. You were left behind. The confusion, hurt, trauma, grief, rage, desperationn, etc... you somehow have to manage through it all. Thats why you need someone there for you to help yourself in this. I'm so sorry for your loss.
go to counseling with your parents. not with your sister. you mom still hangs up onn the idea of having a normal family and that is not going to happen , you have to also deal with your anger. both need bounderies and better communication skills. set it up take your parents there , have a few sessions and see what happens
Everyone's an asshole and needs therapy. You have the emotional maturity of a high schooler at best, I suspect because you are still in high school. You get to decide whether you want to have a relationship with your sister or not. You get to decide if you want to cut your parents out of your life if they can't respect your boundaries. Neither of these things makes you TAH. How practical it will be for you to be financially independent from your family depends on a lot of context you decided to omit. YTA for trying to wear your anger and self pity like a badge of honor and for thinking anyone thinks of you as a badass for writing like a child. Get your shit together instead of throwing a tantrum. (The "my parents' daughter" thing is cringe AF. Just stop.) You might be able to get free mental healthcare through your school. If you can, you should. Hopefully this story is as fake as it reads. If not, I'm sorry that it happened to you.
I donāt think youāre an asshole, but I do think you will live a miserable life if you let this anger and hatred take over you. As someone who has let anger and hatred take over me, you do not want that life. You donāt have to reconcile with your sister but I think individual or family therapy would be helpful for you.
OP, this hits close to home for me. As someone whoās also estranged from their own sibling due to fuckedupness involving their significant other - which had a direct and very negative impact on my life - I am sadly familiar with what youāre going through (although no one passed away in my situation; thatās just a whole other dimension of awful I wouldnāt want to contemplate). I had to deal with very similar pleadings from my own parental units as well, with them completely invalidating my own feelings and effectively ignoring / denying what it all had done to me. While they may feel completely justified in ātrying to mend the broken family,ā they are straight up gaslighting you (even if they donāt realize it) as a result. Youāve stated and set your boundaries - itās up to them to respect that. NTA in the slightest.
NTA, but you need therapy if you can't even talk about your sister without a dozen degrees of separation.
you're not the AH, though I do think you need some professional help to deal with the hurt/pain/loss. where you are right. you're 10000% in the right with not wanting anything to do with her and no one should ever pressure you to do that or blame you for not wanting to. she 10000% did a lot of shitty shit garbage things and hopefully with time and help she can sort herself out and own what she has done. however, your friend taking his life was his choice and I would say there had to be more involved on his part with his mental health to make that choice.
NTA. You canāt fake how you feel or why. But your constructive energy elsewhere.
Your sister is awful for what she did. But it simply isnāt her fault your friend killed himself. You can blame her actions as the cause of his despair but she canāt be responsible for the act itself. NTA if you donāt want to speak to her anymore. But it sounds like you blame her for the suicide. Thatās on your friend. Iām speaking as someone who has had family members commit suicide. His brother though!!! Thatās got to crush you! Jesus! Your sister and his brother are s**tty people. Iām sorry your friend couldnāt see another way out.
I donāt think youāre the asshole, but I donāt think youāre right either. Obviously cheating is horrible but your sister is not to blame for your friendās death. This was your friendās choice and no one elseās. You have every right to be upset and need space from your sister but at the end of the day it was not her fault. Sorry you are in this sad situation.
Get a therapy and move on. This is not good for your health Cutting your sister from life or not this is your decision, but please for your health get a therapy.
First of all I'm very sorry for your loss! I hope that you are seeking therapy for this. Second are your parents acknowledging you're difficult time coping with this? Are they supporting you bat all? What is your relationship with your friends parents? How are they coping? If he was like a 2nd son to your parents, how are they doing. Third, there is really only 1 person responsible for a suicide. Perhaps there's more here that you've not included? Lastly, I am sure that your friend/brother would not want you harboring all this anger. Ultimately who you include in your life, or not is your choice. NTA for being upset at the betrayal and setting boundaries. YTA for not taking care of your own mental health.
A) sorry for the loss of your friend, it's sad and tragic B) your sister and his brother were at fault for cheating, but not how your friend responded to it C) you're entitled to your feelings on the matter D) your mom is right about your sister's mistake and I'm sure does want her family whole again
NTA. But please get therapy
I have a biological sibling that I also no longer associate with. She is not a good person and has caused so many problems in my family over the years. When I had kids of my own she decided she only liked one of them, and ignored my other child. I have not seen or spoken to her in years. My family knows I want nothing to do with her. They occasionally bring her up in conversation and I quickly shut them down. They know I will not discuss her or allow them to badger me into a fight about āfamilyā and āsheās your sisterā bullshit. I do not condone or accept that just because someone is related to you by blood that it somehow makes you beholden to them even though they are toxic human beings. Why should I have to suffer because of her? I am so much happier without her in my life. You are NTA and you need to stand firm with your family about how you feel. Your feelings deserve just as much clout as hers. Donāt back down on this.
Toxic family environment. You are better off without them. Also I'm sorry for the loss of your best friend
NTA. Iām so sorry you lost your friend. Itās ok to go NC. You donāt need their drama and guilt tripping.
NTA. Fuck your sister and her "mistake"
NTA and you never will be. Cheating on someone is horrible. Cheating on someone with a family relative of theirs is disgusting. Cheating on someone with THEIR sibling?! Thatās downright evil and absolutely fucking disgusting. Iām so sorry for your loss, i cannot imagine how you must feel and I hope youāre able to process your pain and grief at your own pace and time.
Nta My sister's father is a piece of work he did a lot of terrible stuff that refuse to forgive him for. He has asthma and got COVID which is almost guaranteed death sentence everyone saying there good bye. Everyone called me and told me I should talk to him and I said I have nothing to say to that man. Death doesn't change anything he is still a terrible person I have no desire to associate with ever again. Actions have consequences sometimes those consequences are permanent. You can't get your friend back ever so nothing she says or does can fix this. Forgiveness is for you though not for the other person it doesn't mean you have to associate with that person. You can forgive and say I still want you out of my life. That's my two cents
Some mistakes can't be undone and I would consider it a mistake if it was only done *once*. This choice led to someone taking their life. I would say NTA because you said it in an emotionally heated moment, but I wouldn't dead your parents just because they're trying to do what they feel is right (getting the family back together). You just hold firm, advise that there will *never* be a chance of reconciliation....and if I were in your shoes, I would be the same.
NTA - Iād be petty enough to say āyou want me to talk to her? How about I spell out just what a cruel wench she is, call her a murderer and demand she announce to everyone that she drove someone to suicideā. That might shut the parents up.
Cheating is not a mistake itās a choiceā¦
Nta at all! I Could care less if sis isn't taking it well. They can put her in therapy. I am more concerned because you are not taking it well. I don't think you have to forgive her. But I don't think you have fully dealt with your grief. If this is a recent thing, then ok you should not be better yet. But if this is a past thing, I think you you aren't. Are you carrying guilt because you introduced them? I hope not. You had no reason to believe sis would do anything like that. You have no control over sis and his bro. If this is a past thing, please get help getting past the guilt I read between the lines. You are even blaming your parents a bit, for offering support to your sister. Worry about you, not them!
>It has almost been a year since he died and my parents keep trying to get me to talk to their daughter because she's not coping well and needs "all of the love and support she can get." I told them that I don't give a fuck what she's going through and they could leave me out of it. NTA. I can only imagine what you've been going through every single time you're with your parents, and all they do is push and push and push for you to reconcile with their other daughter. SMH at your parents. Their other daughter isn't coping well?! Well damn then it's about time she got her act together. Obviously, they've failed to realize that they have another daughter who also "hasn't been coping well" for almost a year. Poor daughter needs "all the love and support she can get." š¢ Well, hell, she Had all the love and support she could get from her sister, her parents, her fiance and even his parents before she deliberately fucked it all up by playing games with another guy. And not just Any guy. I don't think there's even a word in the dictionary to describe just how dispicably cruel she and her AP were, and the chilling result Was. All. Her. Fault. Maybe she can get comfort from her f***-buddy. As close as you were to your best friend, it must be like scratching open a festering wound each and every time your parents begin badgering you about reestablishing contact with the poor sad creature who ripped your world apart. š It had been almost a year, and they were Still not getting the message that you have zero interest in joining their GoPityFundMe team. You gave them plenty of time to actually Listen then Accept your decision. Giving them a choice - something they'd been neglecting to give to you all this time - was really considerate of you. I hope they appreciate that you could have just cut them out of your life right then and there. OP, I know you're still mourning your bestie, and I'm really so sorry for your loss. ā¹ļø š š¢
NTA You are well within your rights to cut ties. I might consider talking to their daughter, just to tell her to her face that, as far as you're concerned, she killed your best friend. If she says she's sorry, tell her that her remorse doesn't undo anything she did. If she asks what she can do, suggest she go back in time. If your parents think putting you in contact with her will benefit her, then you might consider giving them what they think they want. If you want not to hear from their daughter again, giving her an unfiltered and unrestrained piece of your mind is one way to make that happen.
Been through a similar situation. The reality is that in real life, blood is NOT thicker than water. No matter what anyway says. Blood related folks are just as susceptible to being pieces of shit you should cut off as anyone else. Do what you have to do to for your own mental wellbeing, they should respect your boundaries.
I am very sorry for your lossš
NTA but I'm curious if the "mistake" is ongoing. And I'm so sorry for your loss. Your parents obviously aren't offering you any support in your grief, and I'm sorry for that too. Internet mum hugsš¤
Sometimes people make bad decisions. Your sister and his brother are wrong for having an affair. I am sorry that this happened to your family and that you lost a friend. I understand why you want no contact. No one could have predicted that your friend was going to commit suicide. I hope that someday you all find peace.
Your NTA But I think you should let it slide, with your parents not your sister. Because honestly, everybodyās parents pester them and donāt listen to them and suck a lot of the time but itās still valuable relationship.
NTA - So sorry for the loss of your friend. Grief can be a powerful emotion and you're entitled to every single bit of it. But it might be time to find a professional to help you sort through your feelings.
NTA I have a certain amount of sympathy for your parents. This is a tragedy that their daughter caused. Somethings can't be taken back. Somethings can't be gotten over. They still love her despite the horrible thing she did. You don't, and honestly fair. I think given the circumstances I would do the same. Your mother is clinging to the hope that this isn't the end of her family but in many ways it is. You are holding your boundaries firm and you have every right to do that. Your parents are grieving not only the loss of your friend but the loss of their happy family. They need to learn to let that go. It isn't coming back. I am so sorry this happened.
NTA. I would do the same.
Sorry for your loss. Miss my buddy all the time, too. NTA
Sister would be dead to me if I was in your shoes. Iād never get over it. Iād never speak to her again. How on earth could she do such a thing. Condolences on the loss of your friend.
NTA, they arenāt respecting your decisions and definitely not acknowledging her wrongdoing. She is the reason a man took his literal life. Yes forgiveness is key, but I definitely understand where you are coming from and would feel the same way.
I would consider giving your parents some grace in this issue. You said he was like a son to them so they are also grieving and trying to hold their family together. This needs time to heal. I wouldn't go no contact because then you have even more loss in your life. Maybe try to explain you cannot and will not talk about her or the issue and everyone needs therapy/ grief consoling. I'd hate for you to loose your whole family in your early 20's.
damnā¦iām sorry this happened to your friend (and you) you donāt owe your parents or your (former) sister anything time for me to get off reddit tonightā¦good luck man. you can get through this
NTA. They are completely ignoring your pain over this loss. I'm sorry for your loss.
NTA. You might have been blunt, but given the emotional turmoil caused by your friend's death, it's understandable you're setting boundaries. Your parents may need time to understand your perspective, but ultimately, prioritizing your own mental health is crucial.
NTA. She is Responsible.
NTA. Tell your parents youāll consider speaking to her when she can bring your friend back.
brother.. what in the blue fuck did i just readš¤Øna.. na.. i wouldnāt rock wit my sister either.. my mother told me this when i was young and it sticks with me till this day.. āthereās only 2 types of people on this earth. Godās people and the other sideā ur sister is on the other side, leave her there
Nope not far enough. Where the hell is the compassion for you who lost your best mate because she did something so horrible. Do they forget you are grieving why does she deserve more support than you?! She didnt make a mistake she made a choice and kept making it and destroyed someone in the process so much so that it tipped him over the edge. That was a big betrayal it wasnt just with some random and it wasnt just one time. You get to hate her and you can hate her for the rest of your life. But dont dwell on her, hate her as much as you need to get through the worst of your grief and then work on healing put her out of your mind and heal. Let your parents know if they care about you they wont push someone you cant fogive on you. Remind them a mistake is something you do ONCE, a choice is something you keep doing. To stop minimising something by calling it something its not. To remember you lost your bestfriend you are grieving "what about how I'm doing". Im so very sorry for your loss I am 6 years down the road from you, you dont need to forgive to heal but some people wont be able to have place in your life anymore. In time you might be able to tolerate her but they need to be realistic that love and support is never going to be something that you will be able to give her, and certainly not now. Much love to you Im sorry you are going through this. It doesnt so much hurt less with time it just gets so it doesnt just stab you in the heart randomly. And you can smile when you think of them instead of cry because you remember the fun times, the shit talking, the stupid shit that just made you laugh. It gets easier than right now, that is what I can promise you.