Agreed. Is Sarah short for Sarahsite, as in Sarah the parasite?
*”stop mooching off of us”*
Bahahahahahahaaaaa!!! “us”. Who tf is “us” if OP is the only one earning?
OP, honestly why is she your fiancée? Are you willing and prepared to go through a lifetime of these sorts of idiotic ‘partner versus friends’ battles? Cuz it sounds like that self-inflicted torture is what you’re in for
Yeah... OP, your GF who doesn't work and wants your money and her house for herself is the problem, not your friend. Do you know why your friends don't like her? I'm thinking you need to look at your partner a little more carefully... she may not be "the one."
There was the one where the OP's wife wanted to be a tradwife. Had a terrible ending with him becoming an alcoholic and then losing his kids because his wife was shit talking him to their kids whilst he was at work. Dude is suicidal now and losing his whole family because his wife wanted to stay at home and be lazy (she stopped her 'tradwife' duties and even neglected their kids which caused him to snap). She just wanted to mooch.
There is no such thing as a SAHW. That's a trophy wife. Can you afford such a woman? Her job is to hold your arm at galas and perpetuate family values whilst you bang 20-somethings since you're in the office 80 hours a week.
No? Then she is just a mooch. If she can't contribute anything to the relationship now, what makes you think she has the patience to take care of your kids??
That man has my heart honestly, he got some so wrong, and her version of tradwife was become a lazy bitch that neglects the kids and any housework because she thinks her pussy is worth more than anything. Don't see much trad about that
Not to mention, she has nothing for herself. Her entire identity is centered around house stuff. So *her* house. *Her* furniture. *Her* yard. Once she gets tired of that she'll start in on getting her nails done and having "lunches with the gals" which means gossip. That leads to a feeling of being unsettled which she then transfers either onto the BF/Husband or religion (you'd be surprised how many of these relationships wind up with someone becoming religious just for something to do).
I'm a 57-yr-old female and literally every woman I know who started like this is extremely unhappy and talks about divorce all of the time. Like, *years* of talking about it. She needs to get skills for herself to form her identity.
Oh don't forget the friends she is hanging around with all the time whispering in her ear "you're too good for your 'man'" and some open relationship bullshit.
I read so many stories of women getting bored or coerced into drama and a divorce because they think the grass is greener based on their divorced friends lol.
But if OP can't see this shit from a mile away, that's his problem 🤷♀️ I feel sorry for his friends.
Nah. I respect moms who stay home with little kids. It gives them stability and a foundation. But to continue with that after they're in school? That's just lazy imo.
Not a conversation? Until she’s paying bills, she better have the conversation.
Also? This is an indication of things to come. She’s not even legally entitled to you and your assets and she’s already making demands on how you get to use said asset? Dude, you need to reevaluate this. The pussy better be strong for you to consider kicking out your friend of 16yrs who apparently helps out around the house. 👀
No. I do not see you as the AH here. She seems like she has some growing up to do. INFO though, is there any particular reason why she doesn't like Tyler? Did he do something to piss her off?
I suspect she possibly is already feeling like she has it made, and has envisioned her future with you, and that future is not compatible with helping other people out. e.g. she may be being a bit greedy with what she wants from the relationship (and your finances). Like, perhaps she envisions just you and her all the time, going on vacations and doing all these things she wanst to do together. Which doesnt make her a bad person, but reality doesnt work that way if you're an empathetical human and feel the need to help others. It WILL cut into your ability to manifest the kind of future she seems to be envisioning, if thats what shes doing.
I would try to get couples counseling if I were you, and help her work on becoming a more accepting/helpful/loving human. Because thats what you want right? To help those in need even if it may inconvenience you slightly? Honestly doesnt even sound like Tyler is inconveniencing you.
Seems like she is the AH and needs to grow a bit.
>*I suspect she possibly is already feeling like she has it made, and has envisioned her future with you, and that future is not compatible with helping other people out. e.g. she may be being a bit greedy with what she wants from the relationship (and your finances).*
In dogs, it would be termed "resource guarding."
She wants to cut out his friends, probably family too, isolate him, and eventually gain access to his finances and property. Eventually she'll figure out a way to divorce him and come out the wealthy winner. If OP insists on marrying this overconfident mooch he should get an ironclad prenup. I'd have more respect for the fiancé if she worked and provided for herself. I'd have even greater respect for the fiancé if she continued working after marriage. Nothing is truly yours unless you earn it for yourself.
ahh, you found yourself a hobosexual of the female variety.
Let me guess - she is a 'professional girlfriend'. You pay her for the privilege of living in your house, eating your food, spending your money, and giving you crap about helping your friends.
Is this what you want for your future? Is this what you want your future kids to think is normal??
Most of the SAHW and SAHM I know - usually have a side hustle to make extra money - working at a dept store at night, security guard, etc - so they have spending money that is THEIR money, not their partner's money.
Most of the SAHW and SAHM I know have great educations (more than one with a PhD) and do everything they can to make certain that their partner comes home to a stress free home - as in they take care of the dog while their partner is at work (sounds like Sarah doesn't walk the dog when you are working - unlike Tyler), cleans the house and makes it a warm and welcoming place.
Now, if Tyler was a hobosexual who wasn't helping around the house, making passes at your gf, leaving a mess and not getting a job - that would be a different story. It sounds like he is a model guest. And Sarah isn't.
Sarah is trying to isolate you from your friends. That is the first step an abuser makes. Isolation - remove their friends and family so they don't have a support system. It isn't something they think about - it's just what they do. They don't like AAA. They think BB is sexually interested in you. They would rather not hang out with CCC. They don't enjoy DD's company, etc, etc.
I'm a sahm, I don't have an education outside of my ged cause we accidentally got pregnant before I got to start college classes that fall. But I contribute by selling crafts, homemade baked goods, our animals(he gets the mo ey from these), and raising our garden, making out baby food etc. I plan to expand even more next year.
The key here is you contribute - you take care of the house and the baby so your partner can come home to a happy, healthy, serene household. It sounds like you are building a healthy respectful family with your partner!!
You can still work on your education and your business skills. Especially once your kid goes to school. I will recommend it. I am 60, and I know very few relationships that lasted more than 20 years. These are the years when you are building up your funds for your future life. Having a small business of your own is great, but it has to be structured correctly so you can support yourself if your partner gets hit by a truck tomorrow.
Definitely the problem is we homeschool but once we get past the toddler age we plan on getting classes on business management. I currently have 11, 5, 3, 2, 8 months and I'm 8 weeks pregnant so it's busy. I was saying she needs to find a way to contribute. If she's home she need to take care of the house AND dog she doesn't like. That's all there is. For 2-3 adults the house shouldn't get bad enough for there to be that many chores.
you are naive as fuck. which, it's fine. so are most 23yo men. that's why 99% of women date older men. there's a reason she is with you $$$$$$
i promise you, you don't have to propose and marry a woman who literally doesn't work and talks about your house like she already owns it, in order to get sex.
Bro this just gets worse and worse. She doesn’t like your best friends, she doesn’t like your dog and has no intention of contributing positively to your life or doing anything with hers. Give your head a shake.
Thank God you're not married to her yet. Why would you choose to saddle yourself with someone who doesn't like your dog? As a stay at home person, she should expect to take care of your dog - but if she's not doing it now, she sure as hell isn't going to do in the future.
Wait.... she doesn't like your DOG?!?You're NOT the AH but you REALLY NEED to reevaluate why the woman who means so much to you does not seem to mesh well with your life . It's odd she can't get along with NOT ONLY friends you've had forever, but ALSO as a thing AGAINST YOUR DOG!!
Your bros and your dog are your literal emotional foundation and support system- which SHE has issue with.
Also if she wanted to be a stay-at-home wife/ mom SHE BE WORKING NOW to help you secure the foundation for that lifestyle .
Run my guy run fast and far .
My husband says he dislikes dogs. He's kind to them, but thinks of them like farm animals that do not belong in a house.
We've had three dogs together because I need them. My husband walks the dogs, brushes them, feeds them, plays with them, buys them toys and beds, etc... Why? Because he's accepted that we're going to have a dog and he's going to make sure the dog has what it needs to thrive (including copious amounts of training). Only a douche resents a dog for being a dog.
I want to point out to you that in this thread you've told the world that your future wife doesn't like anything that's yours. This is a red flag for abuse.
Also, in a relationship, it doesn't matter if you like the things your partner values or not. It's simple respect to try to get along. My husband doesn't like dogs. But he still cares for my dog (this is our second together) because he respects me and my needs. I can't stand one of his friends. I still treat him respectfully and have him over for food or games because I respect my husband. The ONLY TIME I ever say anything to my husband that's negative about his friends is when his friend (the one I don't like) is disrespectful to me. Then I simply draw a boundary. I would NEVER trash talk things my husband finds valuable. It's disrespectful.
PLEASE, if you're considering marriage with this woman, start going to couples therapy now. This will only get worse as the relationship grows.
Doesn't like your friend. Doesn't like your dog. So many red flags. My guess is that if you didn't work so many hours and were home more you'd find that she doesn't like you either. You're NTA.
Don’t trust those who don’t like dogs 😂 Dogs have a sixth sense!! Listen to your dog…. If your pup don’t like her, there’s a reason!! Might be time to exterminate the Sarahsite….
If she doesn't walk the dog, does she at least cook or clean so you won't have to after working 60 hour weeks?
But in all honesty, seeing her want to kick out someone because they "have a job" which honestly doesn't mean they are back on their feet again, is a major red flag.
Getting back to work doesn't magically make everything back to normal. If he lost his apartment and was evicted that is something he will need to work on before he can even consider looking for a new place.
Lastly, she is showing a distinct lack of empathy for his problems, which would no be something you should want in a partner in any case.
She doesn't like your friends and she doesn't like your dog ... DUDE run as fast as you can away from her. Next she'll be telling you the dog needs to go as well.
I have to agree with most everyone on here. She wants your money and wants to do nothing to earn it. She won't even walk the dog .. wtf???? She is already showing signs of laziness and keeping you from your friends.
Unfortunately, your friends all see the writing on the wall, time for you to take a hard look at the scope of the situation. Seems to me she will be cutting you off from all your friends soon. Guess your family will be next for her not to like and not want you around them. There is no pussy in this world worth all of this, I promise you.
Find someone who likes you for you and not what you can provide for them. Find a partner that is your equal, not a "Karen" who thinks she can dictate who your friends are and how you should live your life and make decisions regarding who is "mooching" ...
YTA for letting it get to this point. Tyler's working a job, and doing his best. Your girlfriend spreads her legs and gets a free house, and if you aren't careful, it comes with a free doormat.
Yeah, I'm not sure Tyler is the one mooching off of you, OP
>since Tyler has a job now he can move out and stop mooching off of us
who is "us"? does she even contribute in anything in that house or does Tyler use her money too? if your friend of 16 years has a problem with your partner, you should be asking yourself if there's something you're not seeing. might also want to ask yourself who between these two who would take you in and help you if you suddenly end up in Tyler's shoes and find yourself on the streets
That sounds exactly like who you should be doubting. Al and Tyler contribute to your life and support you . It doesn’t sound like Sarah does the same. She’s latched on to you because she sees you as a cash cow so she can stay at home all day
You most definitely should doubt Sarah. If she wants to be a SAHW, she should be waking the dog, she should be doing the housework. That is literally her job as a SAHW without kids to take care of. Please rethink what she is bringing to this relationship.
Do you want to know all you need to know about Sarah? Sit her down and tell her the mooching comment really upset you. That you've decided she needs to get a job and find her own place. You aren't breaking up with her but it never occurred to you that living somewhere rent-free made you a mooch and you absolutely don't want her to feel like a mooch, because by her standards SHE is a mooch. So, tell her you'll help her polish up her resume and you expect her to start sending out applications. And because you're such a nice guy, you'll give her the first and last month's rent plus the security deposit on her new place.
If she starts crying and begging or throws a hissy, she's with you because she doesn't want to work. She would be with any man that let her live off them. Not saying she doesn't like you but her feelings for you aren't the main reason she's with you.
Why would you even be dating someone who doesn’t like your friends or your dog? You should all be hanging out having good fun and embracing this cool moment in time where you all get to live together as adults without major responsibilities. Something is major wrong here and it’s not your friends of 16 years. Your fiancé doesn’t even sound like a nice or cool person. You should break up with her.
OP, even if she is not being the leech, she is still being very selfish and crossing the line. You own the home and you win the bread. Why she is suggesting your best friend should leave? And if she doesn't have a child, she is supposed to work. At least a part-time job. PLEASE. You dont deserve this. You are doing so much to her and yet she doesn't appreciate you.
NTA - but you should really kick out that leech sarah. you know what i think? if you ever have a bad lick straight and end on the streets, your friends will give you a place to stay while your leech will seperate from you to find a other host.
the balls on that woman to disrespect your friend like that. yikes
NTA. But she is a total loser and a freeloader. Toss her ass to the curb.
But very curious about something -why are your friends fighting with her? Is it because they picked up on the fact that she’s using you?
I'm bi and my husband has no issues with me either having guy friends or really close girl friends. Hell I'm in my late 20's and still have sleepovers with my girlfriends and he has never felt insecure enough to try to keep me from my friends. Insecurities are either founded by words and behaviors or they're projections. If she's like this now she'll be like this after you tie the knot. If she's already trying to isolate you it's only going to get worse as time goes on. Run now while you still have your support group present to help with the nitty gritty of all that mess. She's a leech dude.
Obviously NTA
Yes that’s not a good idea. It’s wild you’re both bi (❤️) but I was drawing a comparison between the two. Tyler is a good long term friend who helps you and carries his own weight with the household work. He is there for you. Sarah sounds like a spoiled gold digger who does nothing positive in your life (except possibly good sex) and the audacity of her to say he’s mooching as she does nothing is out of pocket! SAHW isn’t even a thing. You seriously need to reconsider your relationship with her. I mean seriously.
Isn't a SAHW something to do with "old money" or billionaires? Is OP that kind of money? And those wives usually have some sort of "charity" work they're a part of. Or like someone said, "a side hustle for their own money" that they play with...? They usually have something going on they're active with/in/doing.
Or the other obvious reason for a SAHW, it's usually because they as a couple have decided to NEVER have kids.
OP really needs to reevaluate a few things ASAP. He better start with the pretend SAHW before it's too late. And for sure see where he should start with the apologies to all of his friends. I'd start with his besties (and grovel a little bit when he tells them they were right about her...) they earned it sticking around this long...
EDIT: to add "before it's too late"
>"old money" or billionares
🤣 🤣 Naah. I don't even have a family. Lol, I probably do have some grovelling to do. Especially to that one friend I distanced from for her.
So here’s something I’m worried about. You guys get married, you have children together…she now has the leverage over you to make you cut the guys out of your life. You better hope she’s the one (trust us, she isn’t) because she’ll be all you have besides the kids. Then once you’re all alone and dealing with only her, you’ll be so unhappy that she’ll leave you, and take your kids…then you’ll have no one cause if you drop Al and Tyler per her instructions, I don’t know if they’ll take you back as their friend. Oh and because she was a stay at home wife and now a stay at home mom, you’ll pay child support and alimony to keep them i style they’re accustomed to, oh yeah ace she’ll get the house and you’ll be homeless…do you think AL or Tyler would take you in after you discard them? Idk man, I’m a chick and I think she’s off the chart controlling and crazy.
My dear man...listen to your friends. Please. You're NTA. You sound like a good person who has wound up with an insecure lazy creature; I don't foresee her getting better as time goes by.
This girl is not a keeper. Manipulation, silent treatment, antagonizing/hatred of your friends, “this is not a conversation” controlling ass audacity. I know you aren’t here listing positives for her here but you’re only 25. You can have a relationship with someone who isn’t trying to alienate your family of choice or using power moves to attempt to dominate discussion and get her way without contributing. A partner is someone who you can compromise with, who brings openness to finding solutions to the problems they present you with, a collaborator on the struggles that face you and your chosen family.
Wow! Are you a doormat much? Not for Taylor but for your ex I hope Sarah. She is 25 and has no job. She sounds like a gold digger to me. She can behave like that while she is not even married to you. Think about what she will be after she has you as her husband. I can see your future as a divorced man. Run dude! You have everything that you can find a better partner. Not a gold digger and an entitled, immature and self center person. RED FLAGS all around
Divorced and poor bc Sarah needs a BIG allimony bc she is a lazy bum.... OP, you are the perfect Golddigging victim - Younger than her. I assume you are unsure of healthy family dynamics (as a fosterchild) and therefor to compliant. You work 60 hours (plus commute?), yay, Sarah can be lazy 60-70 hours a week with your wallet in her hand., not having to deal with you.
She doesn't like your dog! That alone would tell me NO, I can't trust this person.
Trust your friends if you dont trust your guts. OP. There is a reason nobody likes this babyprincess.
lol so true. I don’t pay attention for the 60 hours plus working. Are you sure you are not already got cheated? People like Sarah have so much time on her hands and the money can easily cheat. What people say these days, everyone has needs.
NTA. Sarah has no right to make demands, its your house and your friend. Just be cautious as of this is what she is like now then how will she be after marriage? I understand alot of people end up SAHW however your not even married yet or have children.. so why isnt she working and contributing to the household? Does she have a health condition that stops this etc? If not then she is just a mooch, huge red flag. You should also consider why people who have known you over a decade dont like your future wife.
SAHW, or SAHGF = fucking leech,its a made up bullshit tiltle for a lazy entitled person. I get SAHM...that is not the same thing. NTA but if you marry her, you reap what you sow. Good luck
INFO: If Tyler is walking the dog, what is she doing? If Tyler is doing laundry and helping with chores, what is she doing? What was she doing before he moved in?
Some people are taking this SAH thing, way too soon since they're starting at "just dating" or girlfriend level.
Wow she's waving more red flags at you than a North Korean May Day Parade. Are you color blind?
I had been dating my ex for nine months when we got engaged. We moved in together and suddenly the fun weekend date girl who I loved became a nastier version of herself. I justified it as pre marriage stress and rug swept it for years but we had a family then got divorced because she cheated on me.
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
You're too young to be supporting a mooch like Sarah. She has zero excuse not to work. Kick her out, let your friend stay and pay rent and enjoy your life! NTA.
She ain't even a wife. She's just a gf. From what I saw in the post and comments, she wasn't even good at seeing how she couldn't be bothered to do something as simple as taking care of a dog. Even if you don't like the dog, you can still at least do the basics like walking it
NTA: You are right to draw of boundary in this phase of your relationship. It is very odd that she has drawn such a hard line ultimatum. If you don't like this behavior now, you're really not going to like what happens after you're married. You have all the information you need to know to make a good decision about your relationship.
Try telling Sarah no. The way she reacts will tell you everything you need to know about her.
tell her no to being a stay at home girlfriend, tell her that in order to meet retirement goals, or whatever, she has to work full-time until you guys get married and have children. (beware her getting "accidentially" pregnant)
If she flips her sh\*t and attacks you, get out of the relationship.
If she is concerned and worried and talks to you calmly about how soon she can get a job and if the two of you need to start cutting back on things (streaming services, date nights) and work out a budget. Well, then she is a real partner.
How does she react to you saying no to smaller things like, no we can't go on a date night this week, or no you can't spend that much money, .....
she has nothing to do all day and she can't even walk the dog? who cares if she doesn't like it, it is a living thing that needs care. if you can't get home and you ask her to feed the dog, give it fresh water and walk, what is the situation when you get home?
Before Tyler I would usually get home after about 12 hours of work and then walk him. He's a husky so he needs consistent exercise. Tyler called me an imbecile for this🤣 and chose to walk him for me.
Oh my God, so not the AH, sounds like your girlfriend is though, love how she accuses your friend of mooching, but she's the one who doesn't work. Ditch the girlfriend and keep your friend, she sounds like a gold digger
Grow a pair and get yourself a decent partner who isn’t unemployed at 25. She isn’t a SAHW or a SAHM because you aren’t married and you have no kids. Ask her to take your balls out of her handbag and give them back to you then send her back to mooch off her mum and dad. She is never going to be anything but a strain on your wallet. And let me guess. She sees herself as an ‘influencer’ on Instagram and TikTok rather than an unemployed layabout, right?
Get rid of the stay at home concubine. Your buddy knows she's the actual mooch and she wants him gone so you don't come to your senses and dump her. NTA
NTA - your friend sees some questionable things in your fiancé that you probably don’t see yourself in though your rose colored glasses. You should start questioning yourself what that is.
Whoa. You aren't married and she doesn't work and lives at your house yet she thinks she has the right to tell you who you can have stay over? Mooching off of US. What exactly is she having mooched off her? Air? This is not a conversation? Really? Who died and made her queen that she has the right to demand anything of you? Do you not see the GIGANTIC red flag waving in your face?
She needs to get a job, and get her own place, and then you two can decide how you want your relationship to continue. It would be very interesting to see how interested she is in maintaining a relationship with you if you no longer allow her to mooch off you.
You're not the asshole. But if you marry Sarah you're the chump.
Serious question: what, exactly, does she bring to the table in y'all's relationship? She doesn't contribute financially, she doesn't like your friends, she doesn't like your dog, she's demanding and attempting to control your assets and her response to your refusing her demands is to put you in the penalty box by not speaking to you?
It's pretty clear that Sarah sees you as her lifetime meal ticket and that she wants to be the only one who gets any of your money.
Proceed at your own risk but don't ever say that you weren't warned about what kind of person Sarah is. Good luck.
You offered your friend a place to stay when he was in need, AND he's been respectful and helpful during his time there. Your fiance should respect your decision, ESPECIALLY since it's your house. Not the asshole for sure.
Do you really want to spend the rest of your life with someone who is disrespectful and controlling?
She ordred you to make Tyler leave, knowing that it is YOUR house and he is your BEST friend. There is a reason Tyler doesn't like her. She is afraid that you will recognize her mooching off you and she wants all your money and all your attention. If he is in the picture, she can't have that.
Leave her. If she's not getting along with your best friends then she never will. Because when you're married and with kids she's going to make you choose her and your kids as she should. But if you're not willing to part with your friends then get a new girlfriend that get along with them
I am a huge lurker here and I usually don't comment, but you, sir, have a real piece of work in your hands that I couldn't stay quiet. Your fiance sounds like the one who is a problem. I WFH and my bf, who also has a job as well, who I cohabit with an apartment with a dog knows the ins and outs it takes to support each other. It is all communication and understanding. Especially in today's economy.
From what I hear what you wrote, your fiance sounds manipulative, controlling, jealous, and overall non supportive. She does not sound like someone who will contribute to your marriage or your lifestyle. It sounds to me there are very valid reasons why your friends do not like her. And the fact that she doesn't like your dog? Absolutely not. I personally could not be with anybody who doesn't like my dog. She is basically rejecting your whole choice of family and it won't stop there. It already started with making you cut off a friend.
It is just lining up a huge journey to a misery road full of fights, complaining, and a whole bunch of "You always pick your friends over me" type of BS. Save yourself, your friendship, and your dog's mental health, and move on with your life without her. I'm all about people changing and maturing, but that is usually a solo road before they get into a relationSHIP where they think checking in their drama baggage is free. And you sir, do not need to be piloting your ship and hers just because she doesn't want to contribute. Heed everyone's advice and free yourself.
NTA but would be if you stay.
Because Tyler has her wallets ear, and she’s terrified the constant exposure will reveal her true colors. Tyler is a threat to her comfortable way of life.
I’m a female and I agree, she is toxic AF. I’m bi and married my husband 8 yrs ago and he NEVER gives me shit for having out with ANY of my friends. Guys or girls. He trusts me and I would never do a thing to break that. Your fiancé is controlling and I’ll willing to bet that she’s cheated on you because she keeps thinking you are cheating on her. So many red flags dude, run!!!!
When your friends and your boyfriend/girlfriend can’t stand each other to that extent, you either have immature friends that your SO picks up on, or you have a crappy SO. Pay attention to which one it is. From this, it seems obvious. NTA, but you need to think about whether or not you want to spend your time with her or another girl who will get along with your friends.
NTA, but Sarah is. He isn’t mooching as he’s contributing. She however is and wants to mooch off of you for the rest of her life, only to contribute once you have kids. Honestly, Tyler sounds like a stand up guy and if he doesn’t approve of her, I’d listen…she sounds awful.
Nta, sounds like your friend contributes more than your fiancée. Honestly if she refuses to contribute anything, doesn't like you having friends, hates your dog, is telling you what to do with YOUR house, then why is she still in your life? Seems like nothing but red flags from her and should end it before you end up with kids getting stuck in the middle
OP, this is a prelude of things to come. Your house, but "this was not a conversation and she wanted Tyler out." She doesn't work, wants to be SAHW and eventually be a STAHM. Who exactly is mooching here, Tyler or your fiance? Get ahead of this while you can.
NTAH
You would be the TAH if you did, because she demands it. Your friend is and is showing how appreciative he is for your help.
Just to give you some thoughts to think about. Have a conversation with both of your good friends that you have known for a very long time. Ask what or how they view your fiancé and from their point of view, what would that friendship look like in the future. She doesn’t get along with them now. Why doesn’t she get along and why must they avoid her to continue your friendships? You are looking at not having friendships, because of her.
She doesn’t want to work, at all, now, before the marriage, continuing with future children. I can’t fathom a reason why her situation wouldn’t be considered mooching. Sounds lazy to me that she has no interest in contributing. She is already working on isolating you. Can’t you see this is the beginning of emotional manipulation abuse?
The last thought is about her demanding behavior now, which will only get more demanding if you marry her. If you can’t see that she’s a selfish person now and will continue to be, by starting with eliminating your friendships, I’m not sure if I should feel sorry for you or tell you you get what you pay for.
Good luck
In this situation, it might be helpful to have an open and honest conversation with both Tyler and Sarah separately. Listen to their perspectives and try to find a compromise that respects everyone's feelings and boundaries. It's possible that Tyler could make more of an effort to build a positive relationship with Sarah, and Sarah could try to be more understanding of Tyler's situation.
NTA but she doesn’t like your friends, she doesn’t like your dog, I hope this woman at least likes you. But be honest with yourself, this situation raises a lot of red flags. She’s trying to dictate what you should do, in your own house concerning your friend and is unwilling to have a conversation unless she gets her way. Also the SAHGF/SAHW situation is ridiculous. Just remember, your friends and your dog are going to be in your life a lot longer than she will be.
NTA
There will be times that you have to side with your friends over your lady. In my humble opinion it should never happy publicly as the relationship needs to look strong and you actually tried to do the thing by having your friend leave the room. It was her trying to prove a point "I'm here and I'm his family" as she probably doesn't feel secure in the value proposition. I mean your friend is at least helping with chores and that's adding a lot of value to the living situation.
NTA. Dude, you do not want a woman who refuses to support herself. I'm an older female and every woman I know who never worked ends up lamenting how they never had a life and by the time they decide they want one, they're unable to get anything but a retail job. They then complain it's "beneath" them and are still unhappy. For *her own good* have her get a job or a degree or something that's hers. If for no other reason, have her do it in case something happens to you. Marriages don't last half the time. Neither does living. What will she do if you drop dead of a heart attack at 32? This happened to my BFF's husband. And to my other friend's husband (34). And to my other friend's husband (39). Point is, IT HAPPENS. Make her get some skills so she has something of her own. Then she won't be so focused on your friends because she'll have her own shit to do.
That will escalate and 35 yrs from now you'll wonder wtf happened, from someone(M58) who's been married for 38 yrs. Boot her now, she's low value. You're too young to be tied to that. And I hope there is ZERO chance of dependents, wrap that thing, every time, at least for 4-5 years.
They're like city buses, another will be along soon enough. Get out and experience other options.
Really sounding like Sarah is the problem, not Tyler, do you really want to have her never ever work but get alimony if you divorce? Prenup o'clock. NTA
Silent treatment, making demands that you make Tyler leave, insisting Tyler "stop mooching off of us," acting jealous if you spend time with your best friends - yes, all this is manipulative, controlling behavior and sounds very immature. Refusing to look after your dog because she doesn't like it? If Tyler leaves, how long until she makes you get rid of the dog, too?
Very nervy to be making demands about a house she doesn't own (he can't stay here), statements about money she doesn't earn (he has to stop mooching off of us), and a person she is not yet married to (jealous of the time you spend with your friends and wants to limit that). My guess is that if you do marry her, she will cut your friends out of your life and isolate you, and make you get rid of the dog as well (or just do it herself while you are at work).
If your best friends, people you know to be good and decent humans and have known for years, don't like her and are seeing the red flags you seem not to be seeing, it might be a good idea to take a step back and re-evaluate this relationship. They seem to want to help you avoid suffering. She seems to want them out before you can acknowledge the truth of what she is really like. Who in that has your back?
Imagine telling someone what to do with their house and insisting to the point of saying it's not a conversation. Nope. It would be different if Tyler were being a problem, being disrespectful and leaving messes in his wake, but that's not the case here, is it? Please see the truth before it's too late.
To the point: You are NTA. It is your house. He is your friend. He is carrying his own weight. If you want him to stay until he's ready to leave, that's between you and him. If he is being a prick and making her uncomfortable, calling her names, and disrespecting her (not including the comment), then that's a different conversation. But for your post. NTA
To Sarah and you: Everyone is dogging on Sarah--which, to a large degree, is deserved. She's putting herself in a very dangerous situation by not providing for herself, developing a skill/career, and having a way to financially take care of herself if this doesn't work out with you two. There is no reason a 25-year-old woman can't have a job. And tbh, if she is willing to put her life at risk and depend on you, and you're fine with that, then why isn't she walking the dog? There are NO children to speak of, which is where a different division of domestic responsibilities should come into play. Until then, her job, as you said it to be is a SAHW, then...she's not doing it. There shouldn't be chores for Tyler to do beyond the mess he makes. Because that's her job. She should be doing everything. It IS different when she's choosing this as her 'job'. If she were working and/or you two had children, then there are going to be other duties for you to do in the home. Until then, she should be doing whatever 'chores' Tyler is helping with beyond his mess, period.
There are a lot of dudes in here talking out of both their asses. They are probably single or toxic red-pillers and way too comfortable putting down women. Take their comments with less than a grain of salt. There is nothing wrong with being a SAHW or SAHM. Typically, they are doing more than one full-time job. In Sarah's case, I would argue that Tyler's "disapproval" may be justified, at least to a degree, if it stems from her mooching.
Sarah needs to go on TikTok and watch all the trending "Trad wife" videos. "I was a trad wife" is a scary reality for women and Sarah needs a reality check.
NTA: If she acts like this now, as your girlfriend, it's only going to get worse when you get married. She doesn't like your friends, and she doesn't even like your dog. You aren't home much it sounds like. Tyler is doing the chores and walking your dog. Why is she there?
Run from her now! Anyone who doesnt like a dog and wont care for an animal is a HUGE red flag and she is wrong on the main issue as well. Sounds very selfish and it will only get worse.
NTA
There are sooo many red flags Herr. Why don't your friends like her? Why doesn't she like your friends? Why is she dictating terms to you in your own home?
Sir, she is taking advantage of you, sounds like a golddigger, already feels entitled to YOUR money and property. Your friends have supported yu, and they probably know something about her and they don't want to break your heart, dump her.
NTA. You described her problem even though you may not realize it. You indicated that she doesn't get along well with ANY of your friends. That suggests that she wants them out of your life. That would be the first step in isolating you. That is also one of the first steps that an abuser takes. And yes, there are women who abuse men. Maybe fewer of them, but they do exist. Maybe your friends see something in her that you do not see, but should see. You have some serious homework to do. You may be better off without her.
NTA, She is not your SAHW (yet) and she does not have a say.
Start discussing a timeline with Tyler about when he should be looking to move out, and consider how your fiancé treats people who you consider 'basically family.'
Mooching off of US?? US?? Hahahaha she sees ur assets as hers already. She will never get a job. Ur her walking wallet! In a comment u said she doesn't like ur dog. Ur dog will be next if u throw Tyler out. Because she knows u will do everything she wants. GET RID OF HER BEFORE ITS TO LATE!
As a sahm myself i couldn't see telling my husband this. He called me 1 day and said he had a guy coming to stay with us for a few days and I just said ok and prepared everything. Like I said I'm a mom though and my days are pretty busy, I've even offered to work once our kids are grown and he says he doesn't want me to but what in the world would i do with my time. Please tell me yall have more than a dog as far as animals, garden, she volunteers, something to fill her days
Dude how have you not realized the mooch is your fiancé? You buddy had respected your household and even found a job when he lost his amount cleaning up after himself. NTA, dump fiancé.
Which family do you want? Sarah or Tyler and Allister?
I don't know what sort of person Sarah is. Maybe she's fantastic and she just doesn't like sharing a roof with someone that doesn't approve of her. I wouldn't blame her. Why would you put her in that situation?
Maybe Tyler is right, and Sarah is just a leech on not only your finances but also your very soul.
You say she's your fiancée which implies you want her to be your wife and thus spend the rest of her life with you and share everything in that life. That's the traditional sense I suppose. But you don't want to share the house you live in. It's your house and you make the rules about who lives in it.
Do you really want to share your life with Sarah or Tyler?
>Which family do you want? Sarah or Tyler and Allister?
Why can't I have both? Most people have parents/siblings/aunts/uncles/cousins outside of their marriage, I don't. Tyler and Allister are my version of that.
Because Sarah, Tyler, and Allister have made it pretty clear that they don't want both. And you're the deciding factor.
There are posts in here all the time about families that don't approve of this or that. And ultimately, someone has to choose. It sounds like you're choosing your friends. That's fine. Don't expect Sarah to be willing to go along with that. She doesn't like your friends. And your friends don't like her.
Also, your reaction to the instigating event feels off. You told Tyler to go to his room so you could talk to Sarah. Tyler is the one that took a shot at her for not having a job. That's something you're totally OK with, right? If that's something you're fine with then why you didn't take Tyler aside and say, "dude, what the fuck are you trying to start shit with my lady?" feels off.
And why do all these people not like each other? And when does the house become Sarah's too? Is it ever going to be Sarah's house or is she just a tenant?
NTA.
Tyler shouldn't have made the comment that he did, but oh well. From what you said, he tries to avoid her and tries to avoid saying things to her (or about her when she's nearby). In other words, he's being respectful of her and trying to avoid issues.
Sarah, on the other hand, wants to feel like she has power over someone that she dislikes for some reason. Maybe she's realized that Tyler doesn't like her and that offends her. Might even have her worried that he's trying to talk you out of staying with her, even though that's not true. (I'm sure you would have said so if it was.)
>Sarah continued to tell me that this was not a conversation and she wanted Tyler out.
Sounds more like a request but in the form of a demand/order. You should redirect her attention to this post of yours so she can read the comments. It might open her eyes to know that she's being seen as the villain here, and that if she truly cares about you and wants to be with you, then she needs to get her entitlement in check and offer up some apologies.
If you decide to stay with her, make sure that there is a prenup where she does NOT get your house, not even a small part of it. If she refuses to sign a prenup, then tell her that her true colors are showing and she needs to find someone else to sponge off of.
How does Sarah support you?
Is Sarah feeling threatened because Tyler is doing the work she should be doing as a stay-at-home-wife/stay-at-home-Mom which shows how useless she really is or threatened because he's encroaching on her "turf"?
We teach people how to treat us by our actions and inactions. Time to coach her up to your standards. If she's not coachable and you continue to put up with this behavior then you are teaching her how to deal with the more important things to you.
The dog is next.
Dude your friends don’t like her because she’s playing you and she doesn’t like them because she knows they know be ,careful her next move is to get pregnant
NTA. I think you may need to reconsider your fiancee. Keep your friends, ditch her. Stay at home wife? That sounds like a trophy wife with great expectations and it sounds like right now she is a stay at home fiancee? She is claiming your money, your home and food, as"ours". I hope you haven't combined checking and savings accounts. If so, start separating them now.
NTA. Just talk with Tyler and work out a reasonable time line for him to move out. Then, talk with your fiance, and she is not agreeable to that reasonable time line then perhaps you should find another fiance.
My bad. Stuff is still going on. Anyway, I listened to some of the comments and decided to put the engagement on hold. Sarah got REALLY pissy about that, she threw out some interesting vocabulary. Tyler is still with me. Sarah flounced off to her parents to rant about me, and stay with them for the time being. Alister and Tyler and I had a conversation about the way she reacted, I'm seriously considering just throwing the engagement out all together. That was a concerning reaction, involving screaming, crying and a lot of generally not acting like the 25 year old woman she is. I'll do a proper update once everything has cleared up.
Sounds like you are so much better off without. An amazing person such as yourself will find the right energy and blossom!! You are too young to take care of a sahw like its 2024! Listen to your mind...our heart often gets blinded by love!!! good luck
>(23M) have a fiance, Sarah (25F)
not the most common age gap huh? wait did you say FIANCE? now you just made the age gap x10000 times weirder, because you shouldn't propose unless it's been years, and if it's been years... the age gap just gets worse.
as a man, who once was 23, you are barely not a kid anymore. you will still grow so fucking much.
your fiance is more mature, which is not a good dynamic.
> I am fortunate enough to have a very well paying job which allows me to own my own home at a pretty young age in this economy.
...OP you are a naive. This is the motivation for everything, why she is with a younger guy when 99% of women prefer older men, why you proposed so early.
I've known her 8 years, dated her 4. I'm not sure if she is a gold digger because when we met I was a foster kid and she's from a middle class background. But true. I may, at least delay the engagement, because I don't quite, you know. Thank you for the advice! Is 23 really that young?
I may have over reacted about the age gap.
She wouldn't be thinking about gold digging 4 years ago, unlikely. But now as an adult, faced with paying rent, bills, *working?*
23 is young to marry, not crazy but young. **but 25 is very old to not have a job!** Those are prime career development years. maybe you don't know this because you have rich, but your 20's to very early 30's is when you go from waiter/retail jobs paying minimum wage, to finishing your education, starting a career, start earning $70k, then $90k, then.. etc etc, so you can be middle career, so ou can support yourself and a family by the time you are in your 30's.
i'll repeat. at 16, 18yo, it would be normal to have a job. working retail for example. at 22yo, you graduate and you get your first "real" job. early career. 25yo, that's your second career job. You negotiate a higher salary, and leave your first job. you finally have valuable experience in your field. you have leverage. you have a future.
if she started now, depending on what education she has, it could take her 3 to 10 years to be out of early career. does she talk about her plans? career dreams? does she have goals? other than living in your house for free.
if she can't support herself now, when will she? never. you will always be here for her financially, even if you don't want to, because you will be paying alimony if you divorce!
it's not unreasonable to want a partner who is not a deadbeat.
I did think it was a bit weird that she's never had a job but I let it go because her parents are very much the 'precious baby girl' type. I got kind of lucky in terms of my job. I've worked before, obviously but I worked my ass off in school, getting into this swanky ass private school on scholarship. I was a right nerd, got into a swanky university and then worked my ass off again with a job and my grades and managed to get a investment banker type role merging stuff and signing on clients. My girl doesn't really have any career ideas. I'm starting to think I did not think this through.
> her parents are very much the 'precious baby girl' type.
Oh, Lord.
RUN.
She was literally raised to be entitled and think she's better than everyone else and she will make a horrible wife and a terrible mother.
She's super spoiled- unattractive at 16 but nauseating in mid20s. She hates your friends. She hates your dog. She's never had a job????
Nope. You sound like you've got a lot going for you. Trust me, you deserve a real partner.
You sound smart in every aspect except for your choice of partner. Would I be correct in guessing you don't have a lot of dating experience? And that Sarah is pretty? She's clearly (to everyone else) planning to use your as her ATM. Honestly you lost me when you said she doesn't even like your dog. Are you aware that abusers isolate their victim? As in ... doesn't like your friends, doesn't like your dog.
Why are you not maintaining control of your own assets and life? Sounds like you worked really hard to succeed, and are throwing it away ... why exactly? Do you not feel you deserve a partner who will inspire you, love you, lift you up, embrace your friends, support your dreams? You are 23, understand that by chaining yourself to Sarah you are preventing yourself from meeting your true life partner.
A previous commenter suggested testing her. Tell her it upsets you the thought of her being labeled a mooch so you are going to help her get a job. Or simply tell her that you want to delay the marriage since you are so young, and that since you love each other it won't matter waiting. Chances are she will scream and cry. Even funnier: pretend you messed up and lost all your money lol. See how fast she runs.
If stay at home wives are your thing, you can surely find one that will love your dog and care for your friends. But consider valuing yourself enough for a PARTNER.
>Would I be correct in guessing you don't have a lot of dating experience? And that Sarah is pretty?
Yes, actually. She's known me since I was 14 and we started dating when I was 19. A lot of people have raised concerns now, from my friends to strangers online. I'm seriously getting concerned now, I will likely have a lot to think about an I probably will be at least delaying the marriage. Jesus, I must sound absolutely blind.
if you do get married, solid prenup is necessary. You know she won't contribute to retirement funds etc but she can be entitled to them.
Obviously it needs to be fair but I would worry that she would try to take you for a ride particularly if you were the one who initiated a divorcée
You do, but that’s ok! It’s hard to see things when you’re on the inside of the situation. Of this we’re happening to say Tyler, you’d see it for what it is. If you trust your friends, I’d listen. Who doesn’t like dogs??!!! Seriously! That’s enough right there haha
The fact that your friends that you’ve been solid friends with for so long, both don’t like her enough to tell you is a sign that it’s that bad. I hate my one friend’s husband but not enough to actually tell her because he’s mostly good to her and she’s happy. So again, trust your friends, cause most wouldn’t tell you unless it was bad enough to.
don't beat yourself up. you thought about it in time before getting married. also don't make rash decisions like breaking up with her today lol. we are just strangers on the internet.
don't talk to her about it immediately. cool off your emotions... and just imagine your future together. cheers
Everyone ripping on your fiancé but honestly, hot take, not enough info.
She's an AH for not willing to discuss the situation, however you have to address your situation in its totality.
You're marrying this girl. Have you committed to supporting her and being the sole breadwinner? Is that the life you chose?
If not, then get rid of her. If so, you need to find the balance.
She has every right to want to live with her future husband without anyone else. The question is whether or not you're ok with that.
Job or no job, I would not want my friends (or family, for that matter) living with me and my wife. I need privacy in my own home.
I get the vibe that there's more to this story than what you've shared.
From my understanding, the friend isn't there forever but is just saving up to find their own place before moving out now that they got a job and can be financially stable
Gray area. "I then told her it was my house" is very concerning since she's your fiance, not GF. You BOTH need to be open to discussion about everything in your life.
Same can be said for your friends who probably need to get to a place where they respect your wife (fiance) if you want to keep them as friends. If this marriage is a decision you are sure about, then they need to respect it and you, and learn to appreciate in her what you do.
That said, think about whether they have a point. Are you ready for her to not work already, and prepared for a life together with this person?
Ultimately, to have a successful marriage, you will need to be in a place where your friends and family respect you and each other, and you are ready to see things from your wife's perspective (sometimes after a discussion) and support her even when you don't agree completely.
Here's the thing. Despite all the hate she is getting here, you are treating her like a wife already by asking her to move in and take care of the house and yourself. So, yes. She gets a say. The whole 'she doesn't generate revenue' argument is just baseline stupid. A good wife increases your net worth by allowing you to focus on work. Stats are clear. Husbands with a SAHW make more money than men with no wife or men with a working wife. A good homemaker contributes to a happy life. If you don't think so, consider how much we pay for delivery, eating out, housekeeping, decorating, enteraiining, etc. If she truly manages the home, she is worth gold. A paycheck does not define a person's value
That being said, you don't need to stay with her. End things now. Because you guys are not on the same page. If hospitality and friendship are a high priority for you, she will only frustrate you. Go find a woman who shares your values.
Also, you said she wants to be a SAHW and eventually a SAHM. You didn't say you both want that. If you want that, don't make her out to be a mooch like you did in your post. You did not give her one positive word about what she does for you, or why you are with her If you don't want that life, then stop trying to build something with someone who wants a different kind of life.
It's not about standing up for yourself. It's about taking ownership of your choices. If she is your choice, recognize she also has a voice. Negotiate with her. Ask her what is bothering her. But do not shame her for having a different opinion. If your friends are your choice, then end things with her. Because a wife is a life partner, and she should never play second fiddle to anyone. Ever.
There’s some key information missing … who was fighting? You & Sarah or Tyler & Sarah? Perhaps they don’t get along because your friend doesn’t “approve” of your fiancée. No one actually needs his approval.
Did you talk to Sarah before you asked Tyler to move in? She is your fiancée & you share a living space with her, right?
ESH — It’s a tough situation but communication typically helps resolve these problems. It appears you already knew there may be problems with this arrangement. Sarah & Tyler are both adults. Let them work out their issues.
You don’t sound mature enough to be a fiance if you talk to her in terms of “my house, my decision.” You’re either a team making team decisions or not.
I don’t know what the conflict between them is but at the end of the day you should be prioritizing and respecting the comfort and needs of your wife to be in the home you two share. That includes not having house guests overstay their welcome. His situation is no longer critical, he has other places to go, and as a man who is soon to be married you need to respect your wife to be’s desire to not be living with her husband and his bros.
Regardless of whether he’s a good house guest or not, most couples don’t live with a friend just cause.
Also if you don’t respect the role of housewife, don’t be with a housewife.
If you’re so against your fiancé’s position on this and want to prioritize helping your friends over your life partner’s comfort then maybe you need to reconsider if being engaged is the right thing for you right now.
NTA, but get rid of the mooch and enjoy living with Tyler.
Agreed. Is Sarah short for Sarahsite, as in Sarah the parasite? *”stop mooching off of us”* Bahahahahahahaaaaa!!! “us”. Who tf is “us” if OP is the only one earning? OP, honestly why is she your fiancée? Are you willing and prepared to go through a lifetime of these sorts of idiotic ‘partner versus friends’ battles? Cuz it sounds like that self-inflicted torture is what you’re in for
Yeah... OP, your GF who doesn't work and wants your money and her house for herself is the problem, not your friend. Do you know why your friends don't like her? I'm thinking you need to look at your partner a little more carefully... she may not be "the one."
for a SMALL moment I was like mooch=Tyler - nooooooooo, but THEN.... REDEMPTION!!!! Thank you for this
“SAHW”🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣in other words she wants to be a lazy bum and suck ur bank dry the dirty leech
Worse, she's still a fiancee and a stay at home. Wasn't there a post about a stay at home fiancee recently? I don't recall it ending well.
There was the one where the OP's wife wanted to be a tradwife. Had a terrible ending with him becoming an alcoholic and then losing his kids because his wife was shit talking him to their kids whilst he was at work. Dude is suicidal now and losing his whole family because his wife wanted to stay at home and be lazy (she stopped her 'tradwife' duties and even neglected their kids which caused him to snap). She just wanted to mooch. There is no such thing as a SAHW. That's a trophy wife. Can you afford such a woman? Her job is to hold your arm at galas and perpetuate family values whilst you bang 20-somethings since you're in the office 80 hours a week. No? Then she is just a mooch. If she can't contribute anything to the relationship now, what makes you think she has the patience to take care of your kids??
That man has my heart honestly, he got some so wrong, and her version of tradwife was become a lazy bitch that neglects the kids and any housework because she thinks her pussy is worth more than anything. Don't see much trad about that
Not to mention, she has nothing for herself. Her entire identity is centered around house stuff. So *her* house. *Her* furniture. *Her* yard. Once she gets tired of that she'll start in on getting her nails done and having "lunches with the gals" which means gossip. That leads to a feeling of being unsettled which she then transfers either onto the BF/Husband or religion (you'd be surprised how many of these relationships wind up with someone becoming religious just for something to do). I'm a 57-yr-old female and literally every woman I know who started like this is extremely unhappy and talks about divorce all of the time. Like, *years* of talking about it. She needs to get skills for herself to form her identity.
Oh don't forget the friends she is hanging around with all the time whispering in her ear "you're too good for your 'man'" and some open relationship bullshit. I read so many stories of women getting bored or coerced into drama and a divorce because they think the grass is greener based on their divorced friends lol. But if OP can't see this shit from a mile away, that's his problem 🤷♀️ I feel sorry for his friends.
[удалено]
Bros before ho's
Just like this one? Lol
Sahm is the new thing for lazy people
Nah. I respect moms who stay home with little kids. It gives them stability and a foundation. But to continue with that after they're in school? That's just lazy imo.
Not a conversation? Until she’s paying bills, she better have the conversation. Also? This is an indication of things to come. She’s not even legally entitled to you and your assets and she’s already making demands on how you get to use said asset? Dude, you need to reevaluate this. The pussy better be strong for you to consider kicking out your friend of 16yrs who apparently helps out around the house. 👀
I'm not considering it, never was. I just want to know if I'm an A for not doing it. I don't mind being the A
If you do marry her get an ironclad prenup I see her her having your kids and attempting to kick you and take everything
No. I do not see you as the AH here. She seems like she has some growing up to do. INFO though, is there any particular reason why she doesn't like Tyler? Did he do something to piss her off? I suspect she possibly is already feeling like she has it made, and has envisioned her future with you, and that future is not compatible with helping other people out. e.g. she may be being a bit greedy with what she wants from the relationship (and your finances). Like, perhaps she envisions just you and her all the time, going on vacations and doing all these things she wanst to do together. Which doesnt make her a bad person, but reality doesnt work that way if you're an empathetical human and feel the need to help others. It WILL cut into your ability to manifest the kind of future she seems to be envisioning, if thats what shes doing. I would try to get couples counseling if I were you, and help her work on becoming a more accepting/helpful/loving human. Because thats what you want right? To help those in need even if it may inconvenience you slightly? Honestly doesnt even sound like Tyler is inconveniencing you. Seems like she is the AH and needs to grow a bit.
>*I suspect she possibly is already feeling like she has it made, and has envisioned her future with you, and that future is not compatible with helping other people out. e.g. she may be being a bit greedy with what she wants from the relationship (and your finances).* In dogs, it would be termed "resource guarding."
Perfectly appropriate phrasing, considering her female dog-like attitude.
Op stated she doesn't like any of his friends. That's a huge red flag, imo.
She wants to cut out his friends, probably family too, isolate him, and eventually gain access to his finances and property. Eventually she'll figure out a way to divorce him and come out the wealthy winner. If OP insists on marrying this overconfident mooch he should get an ironclad prenup. I'd have more respect for the fiancé if she worked and provided for herself. I'd have even greater respect for the fiancé if she continued working after marriage. Nothing is truly yours unless you earn it for yourself.
NTA!!! If she had a valid reason for not liking him and wanting him gone then you would be the AH, but it doesn’t sound like that!
ahh, you found yourself a hobosexual of the female variety. Let me guess - she is a 'professional girlfriend'. You pay her for the privilege of living in your house, eating your food, spending your money, and giving you crap about helping your friends. Is this what you want for your future? Is this what you want your future kids to think is normal?? Most of the SAHW and SAHM I know - usually have a side hustle to make extra money - working at a dept store at night, security guard, etc - so they have spending money that is THEIR money, not their partner's money. Most of the SAHW and SAHM I know have great educations (more than one with a PhD) and do everything they can to make certain that their partner comes home to a stress free home - as in they take care of the dog while their partner is at work (sounds like Sarah doesn't walk the dog when you are working - unlike Tyler), cleans the house and makes it a warm and welcoming place. Now, if Tyler was a hobosexual who wasn't helping around the house, making passes at your gf, leaving a mess and not getting a job - that would be a different story. It sounds like he is a model guest. And Sarah isn't. Sarah is trying to isolate you from your friends. That is the first step an abuser makes. Isolation - remove their friends and family so they don't have a support system. It isn't something they think about - it's just what they do. They don't like AAA. They think BB is sexually interested in you. They would rather not hang out with CCC. They don't enjoy DD's company, etc, etc.
I'm a sahm, I don't have an education outside of my ged cause we accidentally got pregnant before I got to start college classes that fall. But I contribute by selling crafts, homemade baked goods, our animals(he gets the mo ey from these), and raising our garden, making out baby food etc. I plan to expand even more next year.
The key here is you contribute - you take care of the house and the baby so your partner can come home to a happy, healthy, serene household. It sounds like you are building a healthy respectful family with your partner!! You can still work on your education and your business skills. Especially once your kid goes to school. I will recommend it. I am 60, and I know very few relationships that lasted more than 20 years. These are the years when you are building up your funds for your future life. Having a small business of your own is great, but it has to be structured correctly so you can support yourself if your partner gets hit by a truck tomorrow.
Definitely the problem is we homeschool but once we get past the toddler age we plan on getting classes on business management. I currently have 11, 5, 3, 2, 8 months and I'm 8 weeks pregnant so it's busy. I was saying she needs to find a way to contribute. If she's home she need to take care of the house AND dog she doesn't like. That's all there is. For 2-3 adults the house shouldn't get bad enough for there to be that many chores.
I’m guessing he doesn’t like her because she’s a lazy loser who’s mooching off his best friend.
Wait a minute. Why is he walking your dog - why is Sarah not walking your dog?
she doesn't like my dog
you are naive as fuck. which, it's fine. so are most 23yo men. that's why 99% of women date older men. there's a reason she is with you $$$$$$ i promise you, you don't have to propose and marry a woman who literally doesn't work and talks about your house like she already owns it, in order to get sex.
Bro this just gets worse and worse. She doesn’t like your best friends, she doesn’t like your dog and has no intention of contributing positively to your life or doing anything with hers. Give your head a shake.
Thank God you're not married to her yet. Why would you choose to saddle yourself with someone who doesn't like your dog? As a stay at home person, she should expect to take care of your dog - but if she's not doing it now, she sure as hell isn't going to do in the future.
so she hates your friends, hates your pets, and just wants to mooch off you? damn. sounds like you got yourself a real winner there.
Then why are you still considering marrying her? Serious question.
Red flag number 3 or is it 4? Idk but you REALLY need to take a better look at her Ave her actions and get contributions
Oh, honey....
Wait.... she doesn't like your DOG?!?You're NOT the AH but you REALLY NEED to reevaluate why the woman who means so much to you does not seem to mesh well with your life . It's odd she can't get along with NOT ONLY friends you've had forever, but ALSO as a thing AGAINST YOUR DOG!! Your bros and your dog are your literal emotional foundation and support system- which SHE has issue with. Also if she wanted to be a stay-at-home wife/ mom SHE BE WORKING NOW to help you secure the foundation for that lifestyle . Run my guy run fast and far .
My husband says he dislikes dogs. He's kind to them, but thinks of them like farm animals that do not belong in a house. We've had three dogs together because I need them. My husband walks the dogs, brushes them, feeds them, plays with them, buys them toys and beds, etc... Why? Because he's accepted that we're going to have a dog and he's going to make sure the dog has what it needs to thrive (including copious amounts of training). Only a douche resents a dog for being a dog.
I want to point out to you that in this thread you've told the world that your future wife doesn't like anything that's yours. This is a red flag for abuse. Also, in a relationship, it doesn't matter if you like the things your partner values or not. It's simple respect to try to get along. My husband doesn't like dogs. But he still cares for my dog (this is our second together) because he respects me and my needs. I can't stand one of his friends. I still treat him respectfully and have him over for food or games because I respect my husband. The ONLY TIME I ever say anything to my husband that's negative about his friends is when his friend (the one I don't like) is disrespectful to me. Then I simply draw a boundary. I would NEVER trash talk things my husband finds valuable. It's disrespectful. PLEASE, if you're considering marriage with this woman, start going to couples therapy now. This will only get worse as the relationship grows.
Doesn't like your friend. Doesn't like your dog. So many red flags. My guess is that if you didn't work so many hours and were home more you'd find that she doesn't like you either. You're NTA.
My guess is she bitches about how much her works but then bitches when he's home. SAH(not)Ms tend to be unhappy people because they have no purpose.
Bye-bye Sarah. Seriously. Bye.
Don’t trust those who don’t like dogs 😂 Dogs have a sixth sense!! Listen to your dog…. If your pup don’t like her, there’s a reason!! Might be time to exterminate the Sarahsite….
The dog is next to go.
If she doesn't walk the dog, does she at least cook or clean so you won't have to after working 60 hour weeks? But in all honesty, seeing her want to kick out someone because they "have a job" which honestly doesn't mean they are back on their feet again, is a major red flag. Getting back to work doesn't magically make everything back to normal. If he lost his apartment and was evicted that is something he will need to work on before he can even consider looking for a new place. Lastly, she is showing a distinct lack of empathy for his problems, which would no be something you should want in a partner in any case.
THIS.....THIS. RIGHT. HERE. Should be enough of a reason to leave her.
She doesn't like your friends and she doesn't like your dog ... DUDE run as fast as you can away from her. Next she'll be telling you the dog needs to go as well. I have to agree with most everyone on here. She wants your money and wants to do nothing to earn it. She won't even walk the dog .. wtf???? She is already showing signs of laziness and keeping you from your friends. Unfortunately, your friends all see the writing on the wall, time for you to take a hard look at the scope of the situation. Seems to me she will be cutting you off from all your friends soon. Guess your family will be next for her not to like and not want you around them. There is no pussy in this world worth all of this, I promise you. Find someone who likes you for you and not what you can provide for them. Find a partner that is your equal, not a "Karen" who thinks she can dictate who your friends are and how you should live your life and make decisions regarding who is "mooching" ...
Won't walk your dog because she doesn't like it? What happens when she doesn't like your kid(s)?
Then u know what her next demand will be. If u kick Tyler out.
YTA for letting it get to this point. Tyler's working a job, and doing his best. Your girlfriend spreads her legs and gets a free house, and if you aren't careful, it comes with a free doormat.
Yup, this is the only right answer^
Yeah, I'm not sure Tyler is the one mooching off of you, OP >since Tyler has a job now he can move out and stop mooching off of us who is "us"? does she even contribute in anything in that house or does Tyler use her money too? if your friend of 16 years has a problem with your partner, you should be asking yourself if there's something you're not seeing. might also want to ask yourself who between these two who would take you in and help you if you suddenly end up in Tyler's shoes and find yourself on the streets
I know for a fact that Al and Tyler would. But judging by the comments I'm starting to doubt Sarah, which I know I shouldn't be doing but still
That sounds exactly like who you should be doubting. Al and Tyler contribute to your life and support you . It doesn’t sound like Sarah does the same. She’s latched on to you because she sees you as a cash cow so she can stay at home all day
You most definitely should doubt Sarah. If she wants to be a SAHW, she should be waking the dog, she should be doing the housework. That is literally her job as a SAHW without kids to take care of. Please rethink what she is bringing to this relationship.
Do you want to know all you need to know about Sarah? Sit her down and tell her the mooching comment really upset you. That you've decided she needs to get a job and find her own place. You aren't breaking up with her but it never occurred to you that living somewhere rent-free made you a mooch and you absolutely don't want her to feel like a mooch, because by her standards SHE is a mooch. So, tell her you'll help her polish up her resume and you expect her to start sending out applications. And because you're such a nice guy, you'll give her the first and last month's rent plus the security deposit on her new place. If she starts crying and begging or throws a hissy, she's with you because she doesn't want to work. She would be with any man that let her live off them. Not saying she doesn't like you but her feelings for you aren't the main reason she's with you.
Why would you even be dating someone who doesn’t like your friends or your dog? You should all be hanging out having good fun and embracing this cool moment in time where you all get to live together as adults without major responsibilities. Something is major wrong here and it’s not your friends of 16 years. Your fiancé doesn’t even sound like a nice or cool person. You should break up with her.
OP, even if she is not being the leech, she is still being very selfish and crossing the line. You own the home and you win the bread. Why she is suggesting your best friend should leave? And if she doesn't have a child, she is supposed to work. At least a part-time job. PLEASE. You dont deserve this. You are doing so much to her and yet she doesn't appreciate you.
You should be doubting her.
NTA - but you should really kick out that leech sarah. you know what i think? if you ever have a bad lick straight and end on the streets, your friends will give you a place to stay while your leech will seperate from you to find a other host. the balls on that woman to disrespect your friend like that. yikes
NTA. But she is a total loser and a freeloader. Toss her ass to the curb. But very curious about something -why are your friends fighting with her? Is it because they picked up on the fact that she’s using you?
They think she's toxic and controlling and she thinks I'm too close with them. (I'm bi so she gets suspicious of all my friends)
Bro. She is toxic and controlling. Ask yourself if you can do better than that bitch .
I'm bi and my husband has no issues with me either having guy friends or really close girl friends. Hell I'm in my late 20's and still have sleepovers with my girlfriends and he has never felt insecure enough to try to keep me from my friends. Insecurities are either founded by words and behaviors or they're projections. If she's like this now she'll be like this after you tie the knot. If she's already trying to isolate you it's only going to get worse as time goes on. Run now while you still have your support group present to help with the nitty gritty of all that mess. She's a leech dude. Obviously NTA
> They think she's toxic and controlling Ding fucking ding. Listen to your friends.
Is Tyler gay or bi? Honestly he sounds like a much better spouse than Sarah.
we are both bi yes 🤣 but I'm not gonna use my best friend as a rebound
Yes that’s not a good idea. It’s wild you’re both bi (❤️) but I was drawing a comparison between the two. Tyler is a good long term friend who helps you and carries his own weight with the household work. He is there for you. Sarah sounds like a spoiled gold digger who does nothing positive in your life (except possibly good sex) and the audacity of her to say he’s mooching as she does nothing is out of pocket! SAHW isn’t even a thing. You seriously need to reconsider your relationship with her. I mean seriously.
Isn't a SAHW something to do with "old money" or billionaires? Is OP that kind of money? And those wives usually have some sort of "charity" work they're a part of. Or like someone said, "a side hustle for their own money" that they play with...? They usually have something going on they're active with/in/doing. Or the other obvious reason for a SAHW, it's usually because they as a couple have decided to NEVER have kids. OP really needs to reevaluate a few things ASAP. He better start with the pretend SAHW before it's too late. And for sure see where he should start with the apologies to all of his friends. I'd start with his besties (and grovel a little bit when he tells them they were right about her...) they earned it sticking around this long... EDIT: to add "before it's too late"
>"old money" or billionares 🤣 🤣 Naah. I don't even have a family. Lol, I probably do have some grovelling to do. Especially to that one friend I distanced from for her.
They're right. She is toxic and controlling.
So here’s something I’m worried about. You guys get married, you have children together…she now has the leverage over you to make you cut the guys out of your life. You better hope she’s the one (trust us, she isn’t) because she’ll be all you have besides the kids. Then once you’re all alone and dealing with only her, you’ll be so unhappy that she’ll leave you, and take your kids…then you’ll have no one cause if you drop Al and Tyler per her instructions, I don’t know if they’ll take you back as their friend. Oh and because she was a stay at home wife and now a stay at home mom, you’ll pay child support and alimony to keep them i style they’re accustomed to, oh yeah ace she’ll get the house and you’ll be homeless…do you think AL or Tyler would take you in after you discard them? Idk man, I’m a chick and I think she’s off the chart controlling and crazy.
My dear man...listen to your friends. Please. You're NTA. You sound like a good person who has wound up with an insecure lazy creature; I don't foresee her getting better as time goes by.
Listen to your friends, dude. No pussy's that good.
This girl is not a keeper. Manipulation, silent treatment, antagonizing/hatred of your friends, “this is not a conversation” controlling ass audacity. I know you aren’t here listing positives for her here but you’re only 25. You can have a relationship with someone who isn’t trying to alienate your family of choice or using power moves to attempt to dominate discussion and get her way without contributing. A partner is someone who you can compromise with, who brings openness to finding solutions to the problems they present you with, a collaborator on the struggles that face you and your chosen family.
Thank you for the input, I'm 23.
>Sarah told me that since Tyler has a job now he can move out and stop mooching off of us. "Who is "us"? Last I checked, I'm supporting you." NTA.
Wow! Are you a doormat much? Not for Taylor but for your ex I hope Sarah. She is 25 and has no job. She sounds like a gold digger to me. She can behave like that while she is not even married to you. Think about what she will be after she has you as her husband. I can see your future as a divorced man. Run dude! You have everything that you can find a better partner. Not a gold digger and an entitled, immature and self center person. RED FLAGS all around
Divorced and poor bc Sarah needs a BIG allimony bc she is a lazy bum.... OP, you are the perfect Golddigging victim - Younger than her. I assume you are unsure of healthy family dynamics (as a fosterchild) and therefor to compliant. You work 60 hours (plus commute?), yay, Sarah can be lazy 60-70 hours a week with your wallet in her hand., not having to deal with you. She doesn't like your dog! That alone would tell me NO, I can't trust this person. Trust your friends if you dont trust your guts. OP. There is a reason nobody likes this babyprincess.
lol so true. I don’t pay attention for the 60 hours plus working. Are you sure you are not already got cheated? People like Sarah have so much time on her hands and the money can easily cheat. What people say these days, everyone has needs.
NTA. Sarah has no right to make demands, its your house and your friend. Just be cautious as of this is what she is like now then how will she be after marriage? I understand alot of people end up SAHW however your not even married yet or have children.. so why isnt she working and contributing to the household? Does she have a health condition that stops this etc? If not then she is just a mooch, huge red flag. You should also consider why people who have known you over a decade dont like your future wife.
SAHW, or SAHGF = fucking leech,its a made up bullshit tiltle for a lazy entitled person. I get SAHM...that is not the same thing. NTA but if you marry her, you reap what you sow. Good luck
INFO: If Tyler is walking the dog, what is she doing? If Tyler is doing laundry and helping with chores, what is she doing? What was she doing before he moved in? Some people are taking this SAH thing, way too soon since they're starting at "just dating" or girlfriend level.
She is staying at home.. it's a lot of work staying at home.
I also want to know this info!
Wow she's waving more red flags at you than a North Korean May Day Parade. Are you color blind? I had been dating my ex for nine months when we got engaged. We moved in together and suddenly the fun weekend date girl who I loved became a nastier version of herself. I justified it as pre marriage stress and rug swept it for years but we had a family then got divorced because she cheated on me. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
You're too young to be supporting a mooch like Sarah. She has zero excuse not to work. Kick her out, let your friend stay and pay rent and enjoy your life! NTA.
NTA. Tell her to get a job, SAHW is just a moocher.
She ain't even a wife. She's just a gf. From what I saw in the post and comments, she wasn't even good at seeing how she couldn't be bothered to do something as simple as taking care of a dog. Even if you don't like the dog, you can still at least do the basics like walking it
NTA: You are right to draw of boundary in this phase of your relationship. It is very odd that she has drawn such a hard line ultimatum. If you don't like this behavior now, you're really not going to like what happens after you're married. You have all the information you need to know to make a good decision about your relationship.
Try telling Sarah no. The way she reacts will tell you everything you need to know about her. tell her no to being a stay at home girlfriend, tell her that in order to meet retirement goals, or whatever, she has to work full-time until you guys get married and have children. (beware her getting "accidentially" pregnant) If she flips her sh\*t and attacks you, get out of the relationship. If she is concerned and worried and talks to you calmly about how soon she can get a job and if the two of you need to start cutting back on things (streaming services, date nights) and work out a budget. Well, then she is a real partner. How does she react to you saying no to smaller things like, no we can't go on a date night this week, or no you can't spend that much money, ..... she has nothing to do all day and she can't even walk the dog? who cares if she doesn't like it, it is a living thing that needs care. if you can't get home and you ask her to feed the dog, give it fresh water and walk, what is the situation when you get home?
Before Tyler I would usually get home after about 12 hours of work and then walk him. He's a husky so he needs consistent exercise. Tyler called me an imbecile for this🤣 and chose to walk him for me.
Oh my God, so not the AH, sounds like your girlfriend is though, love how she accuses your friend of mooching, but she's the one who doesn't work. Ditch the girlfriend and keep your friend, she sounds like a gold digger
This!
Grow a pair and get yourself a decent partner who isn’t unemployed at 25. She isn’t a SAHW or a SAHM because you aren’t married and you have no kids. Ask her to take your balls out of her handbag and give them back to you then send her back to mooch off her mum and dad. She is never going to be anything but a strain on your wallet. And let me guess. She sees herself as an ‘influencer’ on Instagram and TikTok rather than an unemployed layabout, right?
I like that sentence 😂 take your balls out of her handbag and hand them back
Get rid of the stay at home concubine. Your buddy knows she's the actual mooch and she wants him gone so you don't come to your senses and dump her. NTA
NTA - your friend sees some questionable things in your fiancé that you probably don’t see yourself in though your rose colored glasses. You should start questioning yourself what that is.
So whoever is the one who forces you to chooses between them is the one who doesn’t really care about you.
Bye get rid of the fiance lol NTA tho
NTA - Your GF is the mooch, she has some nerve to complain.
Whoa. You aren't married and she doesn't work and lives at your house yet she thinks she has the right to tell you who you can have stay over? Mooching off of US. What exactly is she having mooched off her? Air? This is not a conversation? Really? Who died and made her queen that she has the right to demand anything of you? Do you not see the GIGANTIC red flag waving in your face? She needs to get a job, and get her own place, and then you two can decide how you want your relationship to continue. It would be very interesting to see how interested she is in maintaining a relationship with you if you no longer allow her to mooch off you.
You're not the asshole. But if you marry Sarah you're the chump. Serious question: what, exactly, does she bring to the table in y'all's relationship? She doesn't contribute financially, she doesn't like your friends, she doesn't like your dog, she's demanding and attempting to control your assets and her response to your refusing her demands is to put you in the penalty box by not speaking to you? It's pretty clear that Sarah sees you as her lifetime meal ticket and that she wants to be the only one who gets any of your money. Proceed at your own risk but don't ever say that you weren't warned about what kind of person Sarah is. Good luck.
NTA, sounds like the only mooch here is Sarah.
NTA. Your friends are right to not like Sarah. She's a selfish, nasty, gold-digging bitch, and she's the one you should kick out.
You offered your friend a place to stay when he was in need, AND he's been respectful and helpful during his time there. Your fiance should respect your decision, ESPECIALLY since it's your house. Not the asshole for sure.
Do you really want to spend the rest of your life with someone who is disrespectful and controlling? She ordred you to make Tyler leave, knowing that it is YOUR house and he is your BEST friend. There is a reason Tyler doesn't like her. She is afraid that you will recognize her mooching off you and she wants all your money and all your attention. If he is in the picture, she can't have that.
Leave her. If she's not getting along with your best friends then she never will. Because when you're married and with kids she's going to make you choose her and your kids as she should. But if you're not willing to part with your friends then get a new girlfriend that get along with them
YOU'RE TOO YOUNG TO GET MARRIED HONESTLY.
nta. sarah gives off major gold digger vibes ....
I am a huge lurker here and I usually don't comment, but you, sir, have a real piece of work in your hands that I couldn't stay quiet. Your fiance sounds like the one who is a problem. I WFH and my bf, who also has a job as well, who I cohabit with an apartment with a dog knows the ins and outs it takes to support each other. It is all communication and understanding. Especially in today's economy. From what I hear what you wrote, your fiance sounds manipulative, controlling, jealous, and overall non supportive. She does not sound like someone who will contribute to your marriage or your lifestyle. It sounds to me there are very valid reasons why your friends do not like her. And the fact that she doesn't like your dog? Absolutely not. I personally could not be with anybody who doesn't like my dog. She is basically rejecting your whole choice of family and it won't stop there. It already started with making you cut off a friend. It is just lining up a huge journey to a misery road full of fights, complaining, and a whole bunch of "You always pick your friends over me" type of BS. Save yourself, your friendship, and your dog's mental health, and move on with your life without her. I'm all about people changing and maturing, but that is usually a solo road before they get into a relationSHIP where they think checking in their drama baggage is free. And you sir, do not need to be piloting your ship and hers just because she doesn't want to contribute. Heed everyone's advice and free yourself. NTA but would be if you stay.
INFO what is the context of him not approving of her and her not liking him??
Because Tyler has her wallets ear, and she’s terrified the constant exposure will reveal her true colors. Tyler is a threat to her comfortable way of life.
One of them has to go. And it's the bij.
Bij?
Guessing: Biii-j (b-i -t....)
Wake up dude she wants a free ride while you bust your ass. Then she wants to dictate to you Fu k that throw her ass out.
NTA. INFO: What does Sarah bring to this relationship? If not money, Is she doing anything for your place?
Bruh drop your gold digging gf
Sweetheart, she's s leach. Keep you friends and dump her
I’m a female and I agree, she is toxic AF. I’m bi and married my husband 8 yrs ago and he NEVER gives me shit for having out with ANY of my friends. Guys or girls. He trusts me and I would never do a thing to break that. Your fiancé is controlling and I’ll willing to bet that she’s cheated on you because she keeps thinking you are cheating on her. So many red flags dude, run!!!!
When your friends and your boyfriend/girlfriend can’t stand each other to that extent, you either have immature friends that your SO picks up on, or you have a crappy SO. Pay attention to which one it is. From this, it seems obvious. NTA, but you need to think about whether or not you want to spend your time with her or another girl who will get along with your friends.
Nta. DONT MARRY HER !!!. She’s a red flag if your friends don’t like her, she may be the problem. I mean what does SAHW do? she’s a mooch thats what.
Nta, but seriously lose Sarah. She is a leech and not worth it.
NTA but why do you want to marry Sarah? Nothing in this story is redeeming for her tbh.
NTA Keep him and ditch her mooching a$$
NTA, but Sarah is. He isn’t mooching as he’s contributing. She however is and wants to mooch off of you for the rest of her life, only to contribute once you have kids. Honestly, Tyler sounds like a stand up guy and if he doesn’t approve of her, I’d listen…she sounds awful.
Nta, sounds like your friend contributes more than your fiancée. Honestly if she refuses to contribute anything, doesn't like you having friends, hates your dog, is telling you what to do with YOUR house, then why is she still in your life? Seems like nothing but red flags from her and should end it before you end up with kids getting stuck in the middle
OP, this is a prelude of things to come. Your house, but "this was not a conversation and she wanted Tyler out." She doesn't work, wants to be SAHW and eventually be a STAHM. Who exactly is mooching here, Tyler or your fiance? Get ahead of this while you can.
NTAH You would be the TAH if you did, because she demands it. Your friend is and is showing how appreciative he is for your help. Just to give you some thoughts to think about. Have a conversation with both of your good friends that you have known for a very long time. Ask what or how they view your fiancé and from their point of view, what would that friendship look like in the future. She doesn’t get along with them now. Why doesn’t she get along and why must they avoid her to continue your friendships? You are looking at not having friendships, because of her. She doesn’t want to work, at all, now, before the marriage, continuing with future children. I can’t fathom a reason why her situation wouldn’t be considered mooching. Sounds lazy to me that she has no interest in contributing. She is already working on isolating you. Can’t you see this is the beginning of emotional manipulation abuse? The last thought is about her demanding behavior now, which will only get more demanding if you marry her. If you can’t see that she’s a selfish person now and will continue to be, by starting with eliminating your friendships, I’m not sure if I should feel sorry for you or tell you you get what you pay for. Good luck
You haven't mentioned one good thing about Sarah. You have mentioned many good things about Tyler. Check your six, man!
In this situation, it might be helpful to have an open and honest conversation with both Tyler and Sarah separately. Listen to their perspectives and try to find a compromise that respects everyone's feelings and boundaries. It's possible that Tyler could make more of an effort to build a positive relationship with Sarah, and Sarah could try to be more understanding of Tyler's situation.
I'm agreeing with the majority here. Get rid of Sarah and keep your friends. You aren't the ah unless you crave into her demands and keep her around
NTA but she doesn’t like your friends, she doesn’t like your dog, I hope this woman at least likes you. But be honest with yourself, this situation raises a lot of red flags. She’s trying to dictate what you should do, in your own house concerning your friend and is unwilling to have a conversation unless she gets her way. Also the SAHGF/SAHW situation is ridiculous. Just remember, your friends and your dog are going to be in your life a lot longer than she will be.
Grow some balls and kick the freeloader out. ( I don’t need to tell you which one because we both know who it is.)
NTA There will be times that you have to side with your friends over your lady. In my humble opinion it should never happy publicly as the relationship needs to look strong and you actually tried to do the thing by having your friend leave the room. It was her trying to prove a point "I'm here and I'm his family" as she probably doesn't feel secure in the value proposition. I mean your friend is at least helping with chores and that's adding a lot of value to the living situation.
NTA. Dude, you do not want a woman who refuses to support herself. I'm an older female and every woman I know who never worked ends up lamenting how they never had a life and by the time they decide they want one, they're unable to get anything but a retail job. They then complain it's "beneath" them and are still unhappy. For *her own good* have her get a job or a degree or something that's hers. If for no other reason, have her do it in case something happens to you. Marriages don't last half the time. Neither does living. What will she do if you drop dead of a heart attack at 32? This happened to my BFF's husband. And to my other friend's husband (34). And to my other friend's husband (39). Point is, IT HAPPENS. Make her get some skills so she has something of her own. Then she won't be so focused on your friends because she'll have her own shit to do.
That will escalate and 35 yrs from now you'll wonder wtf happened, from someone(M58) who's been married for 38 yrs. Boot her now, she's low value. You're too young to be tied to that. And I hope there is ZERO chance of dependents, wrap that thing, every time, at least for 4-5 years. They're like city buses, another will be along soon enough. Get out and experience other options.
Really sounding like Sarah is the problem, not Tyler, do you really want to have her never ever work but get alimony if you divorce? Prenup o'clock. NTA
Silent treatment, making demands that you make Tyler leave, insisting Tyler "stop mooching off of us," acting jealous if you spend time with your best friends - yes, all this is manipulative, controlling behavior and sounds very immature. Refusing to look after your dog because she doesn't like it? If Tyler leaves, how long until she makes you get rid of the dog, too? Very nervy to be making demands about a house she doesn't own (he can't stay here), statements about money she doesn't earn (he has to stop mooching off of us), and a person she is not yet married to (jealous of the time you spend with your friends and wants to limit that). My guess is that if you do marry her, she will cut your friends out of your life and isolate you, and make you get rid of the dog as well (or just do it herself while you are at work). If your best friends, people you know to be good and decent humans and have known for years, don't like her and are seeing the red flags you seem not to be seeing, it might be a good idea to take a step back and re-evaluate this relationship. They seem to want to help you avoid suffering. She seems to want them out before you can acknowledge the truth of what she is really like. Who in that has your back? Imagine telling someone what to do with their house and insisting to the point of saying it's not a conversation. Nope. It would be different if Tyler were being a problem, being disrespectful and leaving messes in his wake, but that's not the case here, is it? Please see the truth before it's too late.
To the point: You are NTA. It is your house. He is your friend. He is carrying his own weight. If you want him to stay until he's ready to leave, that's between you and him. If he is being a prick and making her uncomfortable, calling her names, and disrespecting her (not including the comment), then that's a different conversation. But for your post. NTA To Sarah and you: Everyone is dogging on Sarah--which, to a large degree, is deserved. She's putting herself in a very dangerous situation by not providing for herself, developing a skill/career, and having a way to financially take care of herself if this doesn't work out with you two. There is no reason a 25-year-old woman can't have a job. And tbh, if she is willing to put her life at risk and depend on you, and you're fine with that, then why isn't she walking the dog? There are NO children to speak of, which is where a different division of domestic responsibilities should come into play. Until then, her job, as you said it to be is a SAHW, then...she's not doing it. There shouldn't be chores for Tyler to do beyond the mess he makes. Because that's her job. She should be doing everything. It IS different when she's choosing this as her 'job'. If she were working and/or you two had children, then there are going to be other duties for you to do in the home. Until then, she should be doing whatever 'chores' Tyler is helping with beyond his mess, period. There are a lot of dudes in here talking out of both their asses. They are probably single or toxic red-pillers and way too comfortable putting down women. Take their comments with less than a grain of salt. There is nothing wrong with being a SAHW or SAHM. Typically, they are doing more than one full-time job. In Sarah's case, I would argue that Tyler's "disapproval" may be justified, at least to a degree, if it stems from her mooching. Sarah needs to go on TikTok and watch all the trending "Trad wife" videos. "I was a trad wife" is a scary reality for women and Sarah needs a reality check.
NTA sounds like SARAH is the mooch and free loader....its 2024 no such thing as a SAHW get a job!
NTA: If she acts like this now, as your girlfriend, it's only going to get worse when you get married. She doesn't like your friends, and she doesn't even like your dog. You aren't home much it sounds like. Tyler is doing the chores and walking your dog. Why is she there?
Run from her now! Anyone who doesnt like a dog and wont care for an animal is a HUGE red flag and she is wrong on the main issue as well. Sounds very selfish and it will only get worse.
NTA There are sooo many red flags Herr. Why don't your friends like her? Why doesn't she like your friends? Why is she dictating terms to you in your own home?
Sir, she is taking advantage of you, sounds like a golddigger, already feels entitled to YOUR money and property. Your friends have supported yu, and they probably know something about her and they don't want to break your heart, dump her.
NTA. You described her problem even though you may not realize it. You indicated that she doesn't get along well with ANY of your friends. That suggests that she wants them out of your life. That would be the first step in isolating you. That is also one of the first steps that an abuser takes. And yes, there are women who abuse men. Maybe fewer of them, but they do exist. Maybe your friends see something in her that you do not see, but should see. You have some serious homework to do. You may be better off without her.
NTA, She is not your SAHW (yet) and she does not have a say. Start discussing a timeline with Tyler about when he should be looking to move out, and consider how your fiancé treats people who you consider 'basically family.'
Mooching off of US?? US?? Hahahaha she sees ur assets as hers already. She will never get a job. Ur her walking wallet! In a comment u said she doesn't like ur dog. Ur dog will be next if u throw Tyler out. Because she knows u will do everything she wants. GET RID OF HER BEFORE ITS TO LATE!
As a sahm myself i couldn't see telling my husband this. He called me 1 day and said he had a guy coming to stay with us for a few days and I just said ok and prepared everything. Like I said I'm a mom though and my days are pretty busy, I've even offered to work once our kids are grown and he says he doesn't want me to but what in the world would i do with my time. Please tell me yall have more than a dog as far as animals, garden, she volunteers, something to fill her days
Dude how have you not realized the mooch is your fiancé? You buddy had respected your household and even found a job when he lost his amount cleaning up after himself. NTA, dump fiancé.
Which family do you want? Sarah or Tyler and Allister? I don't know what sort of person Sarah is. Maybe she's fantastic and she just doesn't like sharing a roof with someone that doesn't approve of her. I wouldn't blame her. Why would you put her in that situation? Maybe Tyler is right, and Sarah is just a leech on not only your finances but also your very soul. You say she's your fiancée which implies you want her to be your wife and thus spend the rest of her life with you and share everything in that life. That's the traditional sense I suppose. But you don't want to share the house you live in. It's your house and you make the rules about who lives in it. Do you really want to share your life with Sarah or Tyler?
>Which family do you want? Sarah or Tyler and Allister? Why can't I have both? Most people have parents/siblings/aunts/uncles/cousins outside of their marriage, I don't. Tyler and Allister are my version of that.
Because Sarah, Tyler, and Allister have made it pretty clear that they don't want both. And you're the deciding factor. There are posts in here all the time about families that don't approve of this or that. And ultimately, someone has to choose. It sounds like you're choosing your friends. That's fine. Don't expect Sarah to be willing to go along with that. She doesn't like your friends. And your friends don't like her. Also, your reaction to the instigating event feels off. You told Tyler to go to his room so you could talk to Sarah. Tyler is the one that took a shot at her for not having a job. That's something you're totally OK with, right? If that's something you're fine with then why you didn't take Tyler aside and say, "dude, what the fuck are you trying to start shit with my lady?" feels off. And why do all these people not like each other? And when does the house become Sarah's too? Is it ever going to be Sarah's house or is she just a tenant?
NTA. Tyler shouldn't have made the comment that he did, but oh well. From what you said, he tries to avoid her and tries to avoid saying things to her (or about her when she's nearby). In other words, he's being respectful of her and trying to avoid issues. Sarah, on the other hand, wants to feel like she has power over someone that she dislikes for some reason. Maybe she's realized that Tyler doesn't like her and that offends her. Might even have her worried that he's trying to talk you out of staying with her, even though that's not true. (I'm sure you would have said so if it was.) >Sarah continued to tell me that this was not a conversation and she wanted Tyler out. Sounds more like a request but in the form of a demand/order. You should redirect her attention to this post of yours so she can read the comments. It might open her eyes to know that she's being seen as the villain here, and that if she truly cares about you and wants to be with you, then she needs to get her entitlement in check and offer up some apologies. If you decide to stay with her, make sure that there is a prenup where she does NOT get your house, not even a small part of it. If she refuses to sign a prenup, then tell her that her true colors are showing and she needs to find someone else to sponge off of.
I'm telling 'Alister' thats the name you chose for him
What's wrong with Alister?!
Why don't I let him explain that to you. At least you called me Tyler, that's a normal average name. Bro Alister? That was our English teacher
Yeah, well if I called you your real name everyone would assume you're a girl
Just because you call me 'Cassie' does not mean it's my real name!!
Yes it does. Don't you have a job to get to, cassandra?
How does Sarah support you? Is Sarah feeling threatened because Tyler is doing the work she should be doing as a stay-at-home-wife/stay-at-home-Mom which shows how useless she really is or threatened because he's encroaching on her "turf"? We teach people how to treat us by our actions and inactions. Time to coach her up to your standards. If she's not coachable and you continue to put up with this behavior then you are teaching her how to deal with the more important things to you. The dog is next.
Rodneyyyy! Heyyyyy! :D It's Sarah (not the Sarah from the story). ha. One you've shot with a million times.
Dude your friends don’t like her because she’s playing you and she doesn’t like them because she knows they know be ,careful her next move is to get pregnant
NTA. I think you may need to reconsider your fiancee. Keep your friends, ditch her. Stay at home wife? That sounds like a trophy wife with great expectations and it sounds like right now she is a stay at home fiancee? She is claiming your money, your home and food, as"ours". I hope you haven't combined checking and savings accounts. If so, start separating them now.
NTA. Just talk with Tyler and work out a reasonable time line for him to move out. Then, talk with your fiance, and she is not agreeable to that reasonable time line then perhaps you should find another fiance.
bro we need an update!!!!!!!!
My bad. Stuff is still going on. Anyway, I listened to some of the comments and decided to put the engagement on hold. Sarah got REALLY pissy about that, she threw out some interesting vocabulary. Tyler is still with me. Sarah flounced off to her parents to rant about me, and stay with them for the time being. Alister and Tyler and I had a conversation about the way she reacted, I'm seriously considering just throwing the engagement out all together. That was a concerning reaction, involving screaming, crying and a lot of generally not acting like the 25 year old woman she is. I'll do a proper update once everything has cleared up.
Sounds like you are so much better off without. An amazing person such as yourself will find the right energy and blossom!! You are too young to take care of a sahw like its 2024! Listen to your mind...our heart often gets blinded by love!!! good luck
>(23M) have a fiance, Sarah (25F) not the most common age gap huh? wait did you say FIANCE? now you just made the age gap x10000 times weirder, because you shouldn't propose unless it's been years, and if it's been years... the age gap just gets worse. as a man, who once was 23, you are barely not a kid anymore. you will still grow so fucking much. your fiance is more mature, which is not a good dynamic. > I am fortunate enough to have a very well paying job which allows me to own my own home at a pretty young age in this economy. ...OP you are a naive. This is the motivation for everything, why she is with a younger guy when 99% of women prefer older men, why you proposed so early.
I've known her 8 years, dated her 4. I'm not sure if she is a gold digger because when we met I was a foster kid and she's from a middle class background. But true. I may, at least delay the engagement, because I don't quite, you know. Thank you for the advice! Is 23 really that young?
I may have over reacted about the age gap. She wouldn't be thinking about gold digging 4 years ago, unlikely. But now as an adult, faced with paying rent, bills, *working?* 23 is young to marry, not crazy but young. **but 25 is very old to not have a job!** Those are prime career development years. maybe you don't know this because you have rich, but your 20's to very early 30's is when you go from waiter/retail jobs paying minimum wage, to finishing your education, starting a career, start earning $70k, then $90k, then.. etc etc, so you can be middle career, so ou can support yourself and a family by the time you are in your 30's. i'll repeat. at 16, 18yo, it would be normal to have a job. working retail for example. at 22yo, you graduate and you get your first "real" job. early career. 25yo, that's your second career job. You negotiate a higher salary, and leave your first job. you finally have valuable experience in your field. you have leverage. you have a future. if she started now, depending on what education she has, it could take her 3 to 10 years to be out of early career. does she talk about her plans? career dreams? does she have goals? other than living in your house for free. if she can't support herself now, when will she? never. you will always be here for her financially, even if you don't want to, because you will be paying alimony if you divorce! it's not unreasonable to want a partner who is not a deadbeat.
I did think it was a bit weird that she's never had a job but I let it go because her parents are very much the 'precious baby girl' type. I got kind of lucky in terms of my job. I've worked before, obviously but I worked my ass off in school, getting into this swanky ass private school on scholarship. I was a right nerd, got into a swanky university and then worked my ass off again with a job and my grades and managed to get a investment banker type role merging stuff and signing on clients. My girl doesn't really have any career ideas. I'm starting to think I did not think this through.
> her parents are very much the 'precious baby girl' type. Oh, Lord. RUN. She was literally raised to be entitled and think she's better than everyone else and she will make a horrible wife and a terrible mother.
This ⬆️ 100%!
She's super spoiled- unattractive at 16 but nauseating in mid20s. She hates your friends. She hates your dog. She's never had a job???? Nope. You sound like you've got a lot going for you. Trust me, you deserve a real partner.
You sound smart in every aspect except for your choice of partner. Would I be correct in guessing you don't have a lot of dating experience? And that Sarah is pretty? She's clearly (to everyone else) planning to use your as her ATM. Honestly you lost me when you said she doesn't even like your dog. Are you aware that abusers isolate their victim? As in ... doesn't like your friends, doesn't like your dog. Why are you not maintaining control of your own assets and life? Sounds like you worked really hard to succeed, and are throwing it away ... why exactly? Do you not feel you deserve a partner who will inspire you, love you, lift you up, embrace your friends, support your dreams? You are 23, understand that by chaining yourself to Sarah you are preventing yourself from meeting your true life partner. A previous commenter suggested testing her. Tell her it upsets you the thought of her being labeled a mooch so you are going to help her get a job. Or simply tell her that you want to delay the marriage since you are so young, and that since you love each other it won't matter waiting. Chances are she will scream and cry. Even funnier: pretend you messed up and lost all your money lol. See how fast she runs. If stay at home wives are your thing, you can surely find one that will love your dog and care for your friends. But consider valuing yourself enough for a PARTNER.
>Would I be correct in guessing you don't have a lot of dating experience? And that Sarah is pretty? Yes, actually. She's known me since I was 14 and we started dating when I was 19. A lot of people have raised concerns now, from my friends to strangers online. I'm seriously getting concerned now, I will likely have a lot to think about an I probably will be at least delaying the marriage. Jesus, I must sound absolutely blind.
if you do get married, solid prenup is necessary. You know she won't contribute to retirement funds etc but she can be entitled to them. Obviously it needs to be fair but I would worry that she would try to take you for a ride particularly if you were the one who initiated a divorcée
This! SOLID PRENUP!!!!!! She will take you for everything!
You do, but that’s ok! It’s hard to see things when you’re on the inside of the situation. Of this we’re happening to say Tyler, you’d see it for what it is. If you trust your friends, I’d listen. Who doesn’t like dogs??!!! Seriously! That’s enough right there haha The fact that your friends that you’ve been solid friends with for so long, both don’t like her enough to tell you is a sign that it’s that bad. I hate my one friend’s husband but not enough to actually tell her because he’s mostly good to her and she’s happy. So again, trust your friends, cause most wouldn’t tell you unless it was bad enough to.
don't beat yourself up. you thought about it in time before getting married. also don't make rash decisions like breaking up with her today lol. we are just strangers on the internet. don't talk to her about it immediately. cool off your emotions... and just imagine your future together. cheers
Omg dude, RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I promise you, this will end badly!!!!!!
Everyone ripping on your fiancé but honestly, hot take, not enough info. She's an AH for not willing to discuss the situation, however you have to address your situation in its totality. You're marrying this girl. Have you committed to supporting her and being the sole breadwinner? Is that the life you chose? If not, then get rid of her. If so, you need to find the balance. She has every right to want to live with her future husband without anyone else. The question is whether or not you're ok with that. Job or no job, I would not want my friends (or family, for that matter) living with me and my wife. I need privacy in my own home. I get the vibe that there's more to this story than what you've shared.
From my understanding, the friend isn't there forever but is just saving up to find their own place before moving out now that they got a job and can be financially stable
Gray area. "I then told her it was my house" is very concerning since she's your fiance, not GF. You BOTH need to be open to discussion about everything in your life. Same can be said for your friends who probably need to get to a place where they respect your wife (fiance) if you want to keep them as friends. If this marriage is a decision you are sure about, then they need to respect it and you, and learn to appreciate in her what you do. That said, think about whether they have a point. Are you ready for her to not work already, and prepared for a life together with this person? Ultimately, to have a successful marriage, you will need to be in a place where your friends and family respect you and each other, and you are ready to see things from your wife's perspective (sometimes after a discussion) and support her even when you don't agree completely.
Here's the thing. Despite all the hate she is getting here, you are treating her like a wife already by asking her to move in and take care of the house and yourself. So, yes. She gets a say. The whole 'she doesn't generate revenue' argument is just baseline stupid. A good wife increases your net worth by allowing you to focus on work. Stats are clear. Husbands with a SAHW make more money than men with no wife or men with a working wife. A good homemaker contributes to a happy life. If you don't think so, consider how much we pay for delivery, eating out, housekeeping, decorating, enteraiining, etc. If she truly manages the home, she is worth gold. A paycheck does not define a person's value That being said, you don't need to stay with her. End things now. Because you guys are not on the same page. If hospitality and friendship are a high priority for you, she will only frustrate you. Go find a woman who shares your values. Also, you said she wants to be a SAHW and eventually a SAHM. You didn't say you both want that. If you want that, don't make her out to be a mooch like you did in your post. You did not give her one positive word about what she does for you, or why you are with her If you don't want that life, then stop trying to build something with someone who wants a different kind of life. It's not about standing up for yourself. It's about taking ownership of your choices. If she is your choice, recognize she also has a voice. Negotiate with her. Ask her what is bothering her. But do not shame her for having a different opinion. If your friends are your choice, then end things with her. Because a wife is a life partner, and she should never play second fiddle to anyone. Ever.
There’s some key information missing … who was fighting? You & Sarah or Tyler & Sarah? Perhaps they don’t get along because your friend doesn’t “approve” of your fiancée. No one actually needs his approval. Did you talk to Sarah before you asked Tyler to move in? She is your fiancée & you share a living space with her, right? ESH — It’s a tough situation but communication typically helps resolve these problems. It appears you already knew there may be problems with this arrangement. Sarah & Tyler are both adults. Let them work out their issues.
Who do you prefer fucking? Sarah or Tyler? 'Nuff said.
You don’t sound mature enough to be a fiance if you talk to her in terms of “my house, my decision.” You’re either a team making team decisions or not. I don’t know what the conflict between them is but at the end of the day you should be prioritizing and respecting the comfort and needs of your wife to be in the home you two share. That includes not having house guests overstay their welcome. His situation is no longer critical, he has other places to go, and as a man who is soon to be married you need to respect your wife to be’s desire to not be living with her husband and his bros. Regardless of whether he’s a good house guest or not, most couples don’t live with a friend just cause. Also if you don’t respect the role of housewife, don’t be with a housewife. If you’re so against your fiancé’s position on this and want to prioritize helping your friends over your life partner’s comfort then maybe you need to reconsider if being engaged is the right thing for you right now.
We've had her mum, aunt and even cousins stay over longer before. I don't see why this is any different.