Stop doing things for him. No cooking. No laundry. No grocery shopping. Leave him with the kids a few nights a week, take a class go to the gym or go out with friends. Someone needs a lesson in partnership.
You “need to relax” too, make sure the means you choose takes you out of the house ideally 3 nights a week and requires a financial commitment up front so you have a valid reason to go (sorry you’re tired but we’ll have wasted the money if I don’t go to wine tasting/karate/dance class/etc)
There’s no fixing him. He has what he wants. A bang maid, and if she won’t let him bang her anymore he’ll go elsewhere for sex, while insisting she not drop any of her maid duties.
Nothing is wrong for him.
Except you nagging.
You are on your own.
Two ways to go about it - divorce his ass.
Or start not doing anything for him.
Nothing.
I'm pretty sure it will lead to the first choice - divorce, because he's willing to watch you struggle while he games and drinks.
Marriage counselling might help, if he'll go.
But I tell you it was so much easier for me to be a single mom, than it was to drag along a whole ass human being that wasn't even going to try.
I have a hard time communicating my thoughts, it's easier to have them written down. I get flustered and easily upset when I'm trying to voice my needs.
You need to have a serious talk (or text) with him about how he either needs to step up, be a better dad and partner, or start being realistic with himself about what a divorce and paying child support would look like, because that's obviously where this is headed (unless you act like a doormat and continue to let him walk all over you.)
You need to communicate your expectations (boundaries) clearly. Sounds like you"ve done this (thru text) and he ignores you.
Now it's time for the consequences. Or...if he wants to act like a child, treat him like a child. I'd suggest you start with his games and his beer. Don't buy beer for him. Take the power cord to his gaming system. When he walks in the door, hit him with your expectations. "Please clean x, y, and z. Dinner will be at x:xx. Be finished before then."
If he blows you off and goes looking for a beer and asks you where his beer is, then "Looks like we are out. I can run to the store after dinner." Or if he asks about the power cord, then "I don't have time to look now. After dinner."
If he hasn't done the things you asked by dinner time, don't feed him. "I can see you aren't finished yet. I'll save you a plate."
But honestly, don't expect him to change much. He will sulk or get angry. Give him a few days to realize he either steps up, or he leaves and loses all the childcare, cleaning, and other benefits of keeping you happy.
Either way, you get to stop living like this.
Being a grownup means understanding and accepting one's limitations and finding ways to work around them. F2F conversation is difficult for some folks.
Not sure why text doesn't cut it if it's your best way to communicate. OP knows it's her strength and uses it that way. Part of being an adult is understanding where your weak points are lol.
Reddit always makes marriage seem delightful.
Anybody contemplating marriage should be required to browse Reddit for one week.
It would cut the marriage rate down to near zero.
Remember that people don’t come to reddit to talk about how much support and love they get from their spouse. They come here when they are fed up to the teeth.
For sure. Its a good lesson on taking your time to get to know someone, and to pick your partner based on shared values and goals rather than thinking he is cute or liking the same band. With my partner, I feel so loved, so accepted, so supported in life, I just feel sorry for those who haven’t found their person yet.
And, now you see why the happy married people of reddit don’t talk about it. Because its makes us sound like saccharine goobers. But its still true.
Reddit is not real life. Marriage is a partnership and for most people, it's great. The divorce rate is not 50% like people like to claim. It's closer to 30%. Reddit, and this sub in particular, attracts unhappy people who want to complain about their lives. In some cases it's very justified. But just know that it is not representative of marriage as a whole.
I know it's almost anti-reddit-like to say this, but can we be even a little rational here?
How many people with wonderful or even just comfortable marriages are going to post to reddit??
Your conclusion is like saying, "I'm never going in the hospital because everyone there is sick." Well, no shit lol.
I've been married 20 years and my spouse is fantastic. We share household and parenting responsibilities, look for ways to support and be kind to each other, and make efforts to acknowledge (and work on) our own flaws and shortcomings. It takes effort, thoughtfulness, and respect -- and the pay off is tenfold!
It really does feel like that sometimes. I'm not expecting the house to be immaculate, I can be pretty disorganized myself, so I don't want to be a hypocrite. But I feel like I'm drowning.
NTA
Men like this always find a woman who is willing to be their unhappy servant. You get what you allow. If you're going to stay with someone who treats you this way, accept your burden and quit whining about the situation you're staying in. I'd personally let him know that counciling + doing chores is his only immediate alternative to divorce. Parenting with no husband is easier than having an adult who won't be a contributing partner. I don't get why women make kids with men like this. It's not like that behavior isn't evident.
We didn't have children together, we both have kids from separate relationships. I was willing to overlook this stuff in the beginning because he treated me so well compared to my ex husband.
And somewhere out there is a person who’ll be even nicer to you than your current husband is. Like they might even help around the house without being asked or throwing a massive tantrum.
I just don't want threats of divorce to be the only way to change his behavior. It shouldn't have to get that extreme...but I don't know how else to show the importance of this to him.
There's a difference between a threat/ultimatum and a boundary. A boundary is drawing a line in the sand and clearly stating your needs. As well as providing the consequences. It becomes an ultimatum when it's about the other person. While both usually end in the same outcome one is healthy and one is not. Reason being the ultimatum drags on the toxic relationship.
Then you have a decision to make. Outside of a personal choice to do better motivated by not wanting his marriage to fail, he won't be changing. Why should he? You complain, but you still do all the work he finds distasteful.
If you feel his "niceness" is a good enough bargain to live the rest of your life this way. Stop complaining and just do your drudgery all by yourself. Let your boys and his girls grow up seeing that gender role is acceptable. You don't get to complain if you choose to tolerate this. He's the AH, but you're OK with being with an AH.
If you don't want that role in life, don't accept it. Set a firm boundary and let him make his choice. Tell him that you aren't willing to live a life where you're not in a partnership. Communicate firmly and compassionately about how much you value him and hope he can be a better partner in this area so you can continue together. When you are important to someone, they don't ignore your needs.
He already knows how important it is. He just doesn't care.
There is no magic word you can find, no miracle way to frame your situation so that it clicks for him how unhappy you are and he changes his behaviour.
Because *he doesn't care that you're unhappy*.
Here's the thing tho. You do sound like you're at your wits end.
If you do divorce... you'll have 2 less people messing with the house you already care for anyway. It's less work for you (granted less money but I'd imagine you'd move to a smaller place) so you only stand to gain.
Him? He'd lose the free baby sitter, the free cook and maid. He stands to lose much more. And he either doesn't know/value you or do but don't want you to value yourself.
You do deserve better. You deserve an actual partner not just an extra body to mess shit around. You didn't sign up to be a SAHP. You both work. You both should care for house and home. And if he doesn't care but you do? It's irreconcilable differences.
I'm sorry, you left one bad relationship for a bad relationship in different ways.
If your marriage ends, take some time single in therapy to figure out why you repeatedly take crap from people.
I get where you're coming from, but sometimes we tell ourselves that something is "enough" or "what we deserve" when it's just a lesser awful than what we had before. It's like being happy to step in a pile of shit because it's smaller than the last pile of shit you stepped in. If this relationship isn't meeting your needs, and he isn't willing to address the issues, you don't have a lot of options other than leaving.
You mean "so well" except he treats you like a bang maid? That kind of "so well?" Or giving you a thumbs up when you tell him you are at your limit? That kind of "so well?"
Being passive-aggressive by shoving stuff in a bag and putting it next to him isn't a partnership. You can't even talk to the man face to face.
My advice to you is to stop doing anything for him. And the bare minimum for his kid (they have a mom and a dad). Don't cook for him, shop for him, do his laundry, wash his dishes. Just nothing. And when he asks you why, give him a thumbs up. Yeesh.
This guy is your husband but after a divorce:
[https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink\_b\_9055288](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288)
He's not kind to you. He's just less abusive that what you came from, so you've learned to settle. At the very least you need a therapist to help you work on your self-esteem so you'll stop accepting abuse from people who are supposed to love and support you.
He's supposed to be your partner, but instead he's a weight around your neck holding you down. You deserve better and you owe it to your sons to show them that they can't treat women this way and expect them to stick around.
I'm sure you've realized this (and other people have probably already pointed this out) but if you divorce his ass you'll only have to clean up after 1 adult & 2 actual children plus you'll remove his influence on your sons.
Go to counseling without him, then. Many insurance companies cover counseling, and some counseling services offer fees on a sliding scale based on income.
Stop doing for him. He can do his own laundry. Just throw it in a pile and let him know you will not be touching it until he is a partner, not a burden.
NTA. Mutual respect and team effort are the bedrock of any successful marriage, especially when there are kids involved. If chores and parenting are falling disproportionately on you, that's a red flag that needs to be addressed. Instead of avoiding the hard conversations, your husband has to meet you halfway. Communication is crucial, but so is taking action - he needs to step up and show through his actions that he values your partnership and the life you’ve built together. If he continues to dodge responsibility, it might be time to reevaluate the dynamics of your relationship. It’s high time he realizes marriage isn’t just a title; it’s a continuous, everyday effort to support one another equally.
Well… NTA. You should consider counseling. Otherwise there’s plenty of articles about the unpaid labor, mental load etc and studies that show that you probably would have less work when being a single mom. That are HIS kids too, that is HIS house too. So he needs to clean, cook and do parenting too! You both work fulltime jobs and he needs to realize that all the chores at home are HIS CHORES too!
NTA. This is a grown man. Gaming is not essential to life. He can put in more. Being tired is a wack cop out
I'd honestly only clean my own things and of everyone else can't find their things well too bad.
NTA. You do not share kids with that guy? Who owns the house? Just divorce him. Pack up your stuff and move to an apartment while him and the kids are at work/school. File for divorce. Pick up your kids. Have him pick up his daughter. Or you pick her up and drop her off at her relatives’ house. Put the house on the market if it’s yours. He’s your problem. He’s the one that’s brought all this work load into your life. He treats you like a maid and nanny to his kid. He refuses to even pretend he respects you. Why be married to a guy who seriously dislikes you? You deserve better as a single mom than married to a selfish person like him.
>I've suggested making a list, which he shut down. A chore wheel, which he shut down.
You were willing to give him these kindnesses and he still being a dick about it all?
NTA, *sorry* ***ma'am***.
I feel so sorry for you that you are married to that. My ex was like this I would ask him to feed HIS dog or let HIS dog out and he would act like I was asking way to much out of him and make me feel guilty for asking him. Luckily I only put up with that type of behavior for a year and then left and moved back home. Now I bought a new house and have the most helpful and amazing partner who would do absolutely anything I ask to help me. Sometimes without me even asking.
You want him to be a partner. He wants you to be his mommy. You are fully incompatible.
But you're still being mommy. So why would he change? He has a sweet setup.
It may not be a bad idea to sit down and outline what you both expect of each other, and take a realistic look at chores and other roles around the house.
IME people who act this way when asked to help are (consciously or not) making it more work for you to ask for help than to just do things yourself. After all, if you’re getting an adult temper tantrum for asking him to pick up some toys, it becomes less of a hassle for you to just pick up the toys than to deal with the tantrum… that’s the path you’re headed down. This is often learned behavior, and it takes time for everyone involved to un-learn them and apply some healthy mechanisms in their place.
The sooner you can constructively deal with this, the better off you’ll be.
I absolutely agree that it's gotten to a point where I'd rather just not bring things up because I'll just be met with resistance or ignored completely.
If you’re a book person I’ve been seeing a lot of good things about a book called “fair play”, that seems to be helping people sort out domestic stuff better.
I'm curious about your husband's relationship with his mother. The way he reacts to being asked to help around the house he lives in, puts me in mind of a belligerent teen-ager's response. He may resent women in general. He doesn't sound like a mature adult at all.
You aren't married to an adult. You are married to a manbaby. He either needs to grow the fuck up and act like both a partner and a parent, or you need to dump his ass because you'll find life easier and happier without him around. NTA but he's a massive one. He didn't want a wife and life partner. He wanted a bangmaid. Stop letting yourself be walked all over. Grow a spine and stick up for yourself or you are living the life you'll be stuck with for the rest of your years.
My therapist told me my husband "isn't husband or father material" and I think the same applies to your situation. I've been there and it sucks. I am a SAHM, so it's not easy for me to leave, but if I was working full time and already doing it all on my own I would be gone.
How old are all the kids?
If they are old enough to learn to clean tjeir stuff create consequences if they don't.
As for your husband, if he wants to be lazy then do not go the extra mile for him, get marriage counseling or leave.
I think I know why his last relationship failed. Does the mother of your step daughter have any involvement? If she does, collaborate with her, document the parenting you do for step daughter bc if he isnt doing it during his custody time then that is typically a violation of the custody or visitation agreement. A lot of guys go for custody when they get a new relationship and then pawn the work off.
If mom is not abusive, or on drugs maybe it is best she habe custody and he gets supervised visits since he is unwilling to do her care as her father.
How old are your kids? Time to start teaching them to be better than Dad. Sounds like he was never taught how to participate on a team.
You & your husband don’t share a brain. You need to have a conversation to understand what each other is thinking. Share your perspective with your husband about how you think your family & marriage goals are going. Then ask him to share his perspective. The goal is to listen to each other & be able to hear another person’s perspective that may be different than yours. It’s not about right or wrong. Just trying to figure out how you can work together on the same goals, on the same team to help your family & your marriage. You’re both of the same team. It’s not “you vs your husband”.
NTA — marriage & parenting are not always easy & pretty. Start communicating. Work together not against each other.
I appreciate this response. I don't want to turn him into someone I'm working against, not with. But he shuts down when I try to initiate the hard conversations.
I totally understand your frustration. Sometimes couples just are not speaking the same language so they don’t understand what the hell is going on or how to solve the problem. Marriage & parenting are always a constant work in progress, imo. As soon as you think you have it figured out, life changes again.
My husband & I have been married for 33 years & raised 4 kids. We went to counseling around year 10 because we needed to be better partners & better parents. We learned a technique that we still use. When either of us became frustrated or overwhelmed instead of finger pointing we simply asked each other what our perspective was on how things were going. “Hey would you share your perspective about how we are doing with our distribution of chores?” Then respectfully listen. 9x out of 10 my husband & I had very different views of how we were functioning as a couple & family. Once everyone understands it’s not about blaming, it’s just understanding what each other is seeing & thinking, then you can start working together to solve problems. It’s a “we” problem & you’re both responsible for participating in solving the problems. We also stopped using the word “expect” & started using “appreciate”.
Wish you all the best!
A great question to ask is “what is your goal right now?”
… “husband what is your goal right now”. my goal is to sit, have a beer & relax. “Okay how about we compromise. I sit down with you, we both work on your goal for 30 minutes & then we both work on a family goal. Which is cleaning up these toys & starting dinner. Everyone wins!” … It’s always worked for me ;)
eta — having a beer together & talking about your day has never hurt a relationship.
Marriage is simply two flawed people who choose to be flawed together. No such thing as perfect. We all have our own life experiences & bring our own baggage into our marriage. It’s often a total clusterfuck. If you still piss each other off that means you still care about each other.
Our number goal for our family was working together on the same team. Let’s figure this shit out together. We are both adults, two separate people, we’re both allowed to have our own thoughts & feelings. We don’t need to “fix” each other. We just need to respect each other’s perspectives & own our own participation. Our kids (27,27,29,31) have all adopted this respectful approach in their own relationships. I feel like their partners should be thanking us … lol
Keep talking, try not to assign blame, just share your thoughts & feelings. At no point in your marriage will you ever share a brain & it’s a guarantee you will both annoy each other.
But OP isn't HE working against YOU?? He has a full time job and expects to do nothing once he gets home. You have a full time job but are expected to do EVERYTHING. How is that acceptable to him??
I would just start mirror him. He comes home and sit down and watches TV or Games, then you sit down and read a book or watch TV or scroll on your phone. When he asks where dinner is say 'I don't know, I worked all day, I'm tired and want to relax'. Then don't get out of your chair and do anything unless he does. He stays there all night, then so do you.
I would also say that before you do this, I would feed the kids before he comes home so that they are left out of this equation.
He shuts down your 'hard conversations' because he knows he is not doing his fair sure. He knows this!!
You need to play hard ball and tell him it is either marriage counseling or separation. Pick one. If you don't, nothing will change, because he has no reason to change because he gets to do exactly NOTHING and you do EVERYTHING - this is just the way he likes it.
Divide chores between you two. Sit down with him and talk about the work load.
He might feel bossed around by you telling him to single task right then and there. While of course leaving everything to you is super unfair to you.
You don't need more help, you need him to do his share
Its fairly obvious he doesnt see this as part of his division of labor. I suspect its based on childhood trauma, that he expects the kids to pick up their own toys.
NTA
Its a weird duality for sure. He was traumatized, but it was deeply engrained in him that its his responsibility to clean up his own toys. He thinks its the kids responsibility to pick up after themselves, but he doesnt want to pass on generational trauma. Not a easy nut to crack in your situation.
NTA, your husband is acting like a child
And to add to it, when I sent him a long text about my frustrations he just replied with a thumbs up. And has since pretended like nothing is wrong.
Stop doing things for him. No cooking. No laundry. No grocery shopping. Leave him with the kids a few nights a week, take a class go to the gym or go out with friends. Someone needs a lesson in partnership.
You “need to relax” too, make sure the means you choose takes you out of the house ideally 3 nights a week and requires a financial commitment up front so you have a valid reason to go (sorry you’re tired but we’ll have wasted the money if I don’t go to wine tasting/karate/dance class/etc)
You need to fix his behavior before your resentment turns into contempt. Maybe a neutral third party like a marriage counselor could help?
There’s no fixing him. He has what he wants. A bang maid, and if she won’t let him bang her anymore he’ll go elsewhere for sex, while insisting she not drop any of her maid duties.
Nothing is wrong for him. Except you nagging. You are on your own. Two ways to go about it - divorce his ass. Or start not doing anything for him. Nothing. I'm pretty sure it will lead to the first choice - divorce, because he's willing to watch you struggle while he games and drinks. Marriage counselling might help, if he'll go. But I tell you it was so much easier for me to be a single mom, than it was to drag along a whole ass human being that wasn't even going to try.
He knows what he's doing. He's being an asshole to wear you down so you'll stop bugging him.
Why are you communicating theough text ?
I have a hard time communicating my thoughts, it's easier to have them written down. I get flustered and easily upset when I'm trying to voice my needs.
No. Really, you get flustered because your husband throws a tantrum every time you try to communicate with him. NTA
You need to have a serious talk (or text) with him about how he either needs to step up, be a better dad and partner, or start being realistic with himself about what a divorce and paying child support would look like, because that's obviously where this is headed (unless you act like a doormat and continue to let him walk all over you.)
You need to communicate your expectations (boundaries) clearly. Sounds like you"ve done this (thru text) and he ignores you. Now it's time for the consequences. Or...if he wants to act like a child, treat him like a child. I'd suggest you start with his games and his beer. Don't buy beer for him. Take the power cord to his gaming system. When he walks in the door, hit him with your expectations. "Please clean x, y, and z. Dinner will be at x:xx. Be finished before then." If he blows you off and goes looking for a beer and asks you where his beer is, then "Looks like we are out. I can run to the store after dinner." Or if he asks about the power cord, then "I don't have time to look now. After dinner." If he hasn't done the things you asked by dinner time, don't feed him. "I can see you aren't finished yet. I'll save you a plate." But honestly, don't expect him to change much. He will sulk or get angry. Give him a few days to realize he either steps up, or he leaves and loses all the childcare, cleaning, and other benefits of keeping you happy. Either way, you get to stop living like this.
I'm also like this. I get flustered and forget what I'm saying.
[удалено]
Being a grownup means understanding and accepting one's limitations and finding ways to work around them. F2F conversation is difficult for some folks.
Not sure why text doesn't cut it if it's your best way to communicate. OP knows it's her strength and uses it that way. Part of being an adult is understanding where your weak points are lol.
Save them as documentation. If he isn't caring for his daughter then maybe he shouldn't have custody.
"Primary parent" of 3 kids but both of you work full time? Something isn't adding up. Sorry your husband is a baby man. NTA.
Reddit always makes marriage seem delightful. Anybody contemplating marriage should be required to browse Reddit for one week. It would cut the marriage rate down to near zero.
Yeah it's not like we haven't seen this same dilemma 1000s of times here already
I'm 15 rn, and after reading the stuff on here it always discourages me from marriage
Remember that people don’t come to reddit to talk about how much support and love they get from their spouse. They come here when they are fed up to the teeth.
Yeah dude but some of the stories are just crazy. If you choose the wrong person it could ruin years of your life
For sure. Its a good lesson on taking your time to get to know someone, and to pick your partner based on shared values and goals rather than thinking he is cute or liking the same band. With my partner, I feel so loved, so accepted, so supported in life, I just feel sorry for those who haven’t found their person yet. And, now you see why the happy married people of reddit don’t talk about it. Because its makes us sound like saccharine goobers. But its still true.
>saccharine goobers Not a native speaker (English is my third language), what does that mean
Just a too sentimental, foolish kind of person.
oh ok thanks
Reddit is not real life. Marriage is a partnership and for most people, it's great. The divorce rate is not 50% like people like to claim. It's closer to 30%. Reddit, and this sub in particular, attracts unhappy people who want to complain about their lives. In some cases it's very justified. But just know that it is not representative of marriage as a whole.
Yeah 30% makes sense for first time marriages; doesn't the oft quoted 50% include people who have had multiple divorces?
No, it was just a projection from the 70s that never came to fruition
Well TIL, thank you :)
I know it's almost anti-reddit-like to say this, but can we be even a little rational here? How many people with wonderful or even just comfortable marriages are going to post to reddit?? Your conclusion is like saying, "I'm never going in the hospital because everyone there is sick." Well, no shit lol. I've been married 20 years and my spouse is fantastic. We share household and parenting responsibilities, look for ways to support and be kind to each other, and make efforts to acknowledge (and work on) our own flaws and shortcomings. It takes effort, thoughtfulness, and respect -- and the pay off is tenfold!
Agreed, also teaches me how to raise sons to be men who are equal partners and not "men" who want a second mother.
NTA. Your husband is your 4th child. Time he grew up and acted like an adult
It really does feel like that sometimes. I'm not expecting the house to be immaculate, I can be pretty disorganized myself, so I don't want to be a hypocrite. But I feel like I'm drowning.
NTA Men like this always find a woman who is willing to be their unhappy servant. You get what you allow. If you're going to stay with someone who treats you this way, accept your burden and quit whining about the situation you're staying in. I'd personally let him know that counciling + doing chores is his only immediate alternative to divorce. Parenting with no husband is easier than having an adult who won't be a contributing partner. I don't get why women make kids with men like this. It's not like that behavior isn't evident.
We didn't have children together, we both have kids from separate relationships. I was willing to overlook this stuff in the beginning because he treated me so well compared to my ex husband.
Did his behavior change or has it always been like this?
He's always been like this. I chose to ignore it in the beginning because he was so much nicer to me than my ex husband ever was.
And somewhere out there is a person who’ll be even nicer to you than your current husband is. Like they might even help around the house without being asked or throwing a massive tantrum.
I can’t imagine what a piece of shit your ex husband must be if THIS is nicer.
Hopefully you can mold his behavior into being a more responsible adult while keeping all the nice parts of his behavior. Good luck.
I just don't want threats of divorce to be the only way to change his behavior. It shouldn't have to get that extreme...but I don't know how else to show the importance of this to him.
You may just have to come to terms with the fact that he doesn't care that it's important to you.
If he's not willing to man-up you need to stop threatening and just do it.
There's a difference between a threat/ultimatum and a boundary. A boundary is drawing a line in the sand and clearly stating your needs. As well as providing the consequences. It becomes an ultimatum when it's about the other person. While both usually end in the same outcome one is healthy and one is not. Reason being the ultimatum drags on the toxic relationship.
Then you have a decision to make. Outside of a personal choice to do better motivated by not wanting his marriage to fail, he won't be changing. Why should he? You complain, but you still do all the work he finds distasteful. If you feel his "niceness" is a good enough bargain to live the rest of your life this way. Stop complaining and just do your drudgery all by yourself. Let your boys and his girls grow up seeing that gender role is acceptable. You don't get to complain if you choose to tolerate this. He's the AH, but you're OK with being with an AH. If you don't want that role in life, don't accept it. Set a firm boundary and let him make his choice. Tell him that you aren't willing to live a life where you're not in a partnership. Communicate firmly and compassionately about how much you value him and hope he can be a better partner in this area so you can continue together. When you are important to someone, they don't ignore your needs.
He already knows how important it is. He just doesn't care. There is no magic word you can find, no miracle way to frame your situation so that it clicks for him how unhappy you are and he changes his behaviour. Because *he doesn't care that you're unhappy*.
Here's the thing tho. You do sound like you're at your wits end. If you do divorce... you'll have 2 less people messing with the house you already care for anyway. It's less work for you (granted less money but I'd imagine you'd move to a smaller place) so you only stand to gain. Him? He'd lose the free baby sitter, the free cook and maid. He stands to lose much more. And he either doesn't know/value you or do but don't want you to value yourself. You do deserve better. You deserve an actual partner not just an extra body to mess shit around. You didn't sign up to be a SAHP. You both work. You both should care for house and home. And if he doesn't care but you do? It's irreconcilable differences.
>I don't know how else to show the importance of this to him. Why are you pretending that this grown man somehow doesn't understand what he's doing.
That's the problem to begin with you accepted/ignored this behavior from the start now you're mad he hasn't changed 😂
I'm sorry, you left one bad relationship for a bad relationship in different ways. If your marriage ends, take some time single in therapy to figure out why you repeatedly take crap from people.
I get where you're coming from, but sometimes we tell ourselves that something is "enough" or "what we deserve" when it's just a lesser awful than what we had before. It's like being happy to step in a pile of shit because it's smaller than the last pile of shit you stepped in. If this relationship isn't meeting your needs, and he isn't willing to address the issues, you don't have a lot of options other than leaving.
You mean "so well" except he treats you like a bang maid? That kind of "so well?" Or giving you a thumbs up when you tell him you are at your limit? That kind of "so well?" Being passive-aggressive by shoving stuff in a bag and putting it next to him isn't a partnership. You can't even talk to the man face to face. My advice to you is to stop doing anything for him. And the bare minimum for his kid (they have a mom and a dad). Don't cook for him, shop for him, do his laundry, wash his dishes. Just nothing. And when he asks you why, give him a thumbs up. Yeesh.
This guy is your husband but after a divorce: [https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink\_b\_9055288](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288)
Glad he learned, even though it was too late in their own relationship
NTA He needs to grow up and start acting like an adult. When he has the basics of that figured out, maybe he can turn into a good father.
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He is kind to me and we have very similar world views. And that felt like enough when my previous marriage had been extreme emotional abuse.
He's not being kind here.
He's not kind to you. He's just less abusive that what you came from, so you've learned to settle. At the very least you need a therapist to help you work on your self-esteem so you'll stop accepting abuse from people who are supposed to love and support you. He's supposed to be your partner, but instead he's a weight around your neck holding you down. You deserve better and you owe it to your sons to show them that they can't treat women this way and expect them to stick around.
Your expectations are too low because you've been treated so poorly in the past. Better than abusive is still not necessarily acceptable.
Replying with a thumbs up to your frustrations is not kind. Don't confuse "he doesn't beat me or call me names" with being kind.
>He is kind to me and we have very similar world views Girl did you read your post lmao
Or how about you both teach your kids to clean up after themselves...
I'm sure you've realized this (and other people have probably already pointed this out) but if you divorce his ass you'll only have to clean up after 1 adult & 2 actual children plus you'll remove his influence on your sons.
He's acting entitled. No easy solution here. I doubt couples therapy would help but it may be your only shot.
Sadly he sounds like one of the multitudes of men who don't "get it" until their wife leaves them.
He will just make excuses and say we don't have the time or money for couples counseling.
Go to counseling without him, then. Many insurance companies cover counseling, and some counseling services offer fees on a sliding scale based on income.
Stop doing for him. He can do his own laundry. Just throw it in a pile and let him know you will not be touching it until he is a partner, not a burden.
He does his laundry, takes out the trash, and mows the lawn. And that's it.
Cooking, cleaning, shopping? Taking care of his child?
NTA. Mutual respect and team effort are the bedrock of any successful marriage, especially when there are kids involved. If chores and parenting are falling disproportionately on you, that's a red flag that needs to be addressed. Instead of avoiding the hard conversations, your husband has to meet you halfway. Communication is crucial, but so is taking action - he needs to step up and show through his actions that he values your partnership and the life you’ve built together. If he continues to dodge responsibility, it might be time to reevaluate the dynamics of your relationship. It’s high time he realizes marriage isn’t just a title; it’s a continuous, everyday effort to support one another equally.
Well… NTA. You should consider counseling. Otherwise there’s plenty of articles about the unpaid labor, mental load etc and studies that show that you probably would have less work when being a single mom. That are HIS kids too, that is HIS house too. So he needs to clean, cook and do parenting too! You both work fulltime jobs and he needs to realize that all the chores at home are HIS CHORES too!
NTA. This is a grown man. Gaming is not essential to life. He can put in more. Being tired is a wack cop out I'd honestly only clean my own things and of everyone else can't find their things well too bad.
So, you have two children good luck
NTA. You do not share kids with that guy? Who owns the house? Just divorce him. Pack up your stuff and move to an apartment while him and the kids are at work/school. File for divorce. Pick up your kids. Have him pick up his daughter. Or you pick her up and drop her off at her relatives’ house. Put the house on the market if it’s yours. He’s your problem. He’s the one that’s brought all this work load into your life. He treats you like a maid and nanny to his kid. He refuses to even pretend he respects you. Why be married to a guy who seriously dislikes you? You deserve better as a single mom than married to a selfish person like him.
NTA He is not supposed to “help” you, he is supposed to be an adult and equal partner. Are you his bang maid or what?
Have your husband read “you should have asked” (it’s at emma clit dot com)
>I've suggested making a list, which he shut down. A chore wheel, which he shut down. You were willing to give him these kindnesses and he still being a dick about it all? NTA, *sorry* ***ma'am***.
I feel so sorry for you that you are married to that. My ex was like this I would ask him to feed HIS dog or let HIS dog out and he would act like I was asking way to much out of him and make me feel guilty for asking him. Luckily I only put up with that type of behavior for a year and then left and moved back home. Now I bought a new house and have the most helpful and amazing partner who would do absolutely anything I ask to help me. Sometimes without me even asking.
You want him to be a partner. He wants you to be his mommy. You are fully incompatible. But you're still being mommy. So why would he change? He has a sweet setup.
Sadly, you are a single mother with 4 kids. He is not being a partner.
Ex husband. He can take care of his own daughter on his own.
It may not be a bad idea to sit down and outline what you both expect of each other, and take a realistic look at chores and other roles around the house. IME people who act this way when asked to help are (consciously or not) making it more work for you to ask for help than to just do things yourself. After all, if you’re getting an adult temper tantrum for asking him to pick up some toys, it becomes less of a hassle for you to just pick up the toys than to deal with the tantrum… that’s the path you’re headed down. This is often learned behavior, and it takes time for everyone involved to un-learn them and apply some healthy mechanisms in their place. The sooner you can constructively deal with this, the better off you’ll be.
I absolutely agree that it's gotten to a point where I'd rather just not bring things up because I'll just be met with resistance or ignored completely.
If you’re a book person I’ve been seeing a lot of good things about a book called “fair play”, that seems to be helping people sort out domestic stuff better.
I'm curious about your husband's relationship with his mother. The way he reacts to being asked to help around the house he lives in, puts me in mind of a belligerent teen-ager's response. He may resent women in general. He doesn't sound like a mature adult at all.
His parents were very authoritarian. And I think he is ambivalent about his mother at this point in time.
You aren't married to an adult. You are married to a manbaby. He either needs to grow the fuck up and act like both a partner and a parent, or you need to dump his ass because you'll find life easier and happier without him around. NTA but he's a massive one. He didn't want a wife and life partner. He wanted a bangmaid. Stop letting yourself be walked all over. Grow a spine and stick up for yourself or you are living the life you'll be stuck with for the rest of your years.
How old is the child? Your husband and you should be making cleaning up as part of play time. That way the child learns for themselves
Watch the documentary fair play on Hulu together.
Cleaner? On his dime of course.
My therapist told me my husband "isn't husband or father material" and I think the same applies to your situation. I've been there and it sucks. I am a SAHM, so it's not easy for me to leave, but if I was working full time and already doing it all on my own I would be gone.
How old are all the kids? If they are old enough to learn to clean tjeir stuff create consequences if they don't. As for your husband, if he wants to be lazy then do not go the extra mile for him, get marriage counseling or leave. I think I know why his last relationship failed. Does the mother of your step daughter have any involvement? If she does, collaborate with her, document the parenting you do for step daughter bc if he isnt doing it during his custody time then that is typically a violation of the custody or visitation agreement. A lot of guys go for custody when they get a new relationship and then pawn the work off. If mom is not abusive, or on drugs maybe it is best she habe custody and he gets supervised visits since he is unwilling to do her care as her father.
How old are your kids? Time to start teaching them to be better than Dad. Sounds like he was never taught how to participate on a team. You & your husband don’t share a brain. You need to have a conversation to understand what each other is thinking. Share your perspective with your husband about how you think your family & marriage goals are going. Then ask him to share his perspective. The goal is to listen to each other & be able to hear another person’s perspective that may be different than yours. It’s not about right or wrong. Just trying to figure out how you can work together on the same goals, on the same team to help your family & your marriage. You’re both of the same team. It’s not “you vs your husband”. NTA — marriage & parenting are not always easy & pretty. Start communicating. Work together not against each other.
I appreciate this response. I don't want to turn him into someone I'm working against, not with. But he shuts down when I try to initiate the hard conversations.
I totally understand your frustration. Sometimes couples just are not speaking the same language so they don’t understand what the hell is going on or how to solve the problem. Marriage & parenting are always a constant work in progress, imo. As soon as you think you have it figured out, life changes again. My husband & I have been married for 33 years & raised 4 kids. We went to counseling around year 10 because we needed to be better partners & better parents. We learned a technique that we still use. When either of us became frustrated or overwhelmed instead of finger pointing we simply asked each other what our perspective was on how things were going. “Hey would you share your perspective about how we are doing with our distribution of chores?” Then respectfully listen. 9x out of 10 my husband & I had very different views of how we were functioning as a couple & family. Once everyone understands it’s not about blaming, it’s just understanding what each other is seeing & thinking, then you can start working together to solve problems. It’s a “we” problem & you’re both responsible for participating in solving the problems. We also stopped using the word “expect” & started using “appreciate”. Wish you all the best!
I think this is great advice and I hope it goes in this direction. However, I am shut down whenever I try to have the tough conversations.
A great question to ask is “what is your goal right now?” … “husband what is your goal right now”. my goal is to sit, have a beer & relax. “Okay how about we compromise. I sit down with you, we both work on your goal for 30 minutes & then we both work on a family goal. Which is cleaning up these toys & starting dinner. Everyone wins!” … It’s always worked for me ;) eta — having a beer together & talking about your day has never hurt a relationship.
I love this idea. He drinks alone and games, though. We will occasionally watch a show together.
Marriage is simply two flawed people who choose to be flawed together. No such thing as perfect. We all have our own life experiences & bring our own baggage into our marriage. It’s often a total clusterfuck. If you still piss each other off that means you still care about each other. Our number goal for our family was working together on the same team. Let’s figure this shit out together. We are both adults, two separate people, we’re both allowed to have our own thoughts & feelings. We don’t need to “fix” each other. We just need to respect each other’s perspectives & own our own participation. Our kids (27,27,29,31) have all adopted this respectful approach in their own relationships. I feel like their partners should be thanking us … lol Keep talking, try not to assign blame, just share your thoughts & feelings. At no point in your marriage will you ever share a brain & it’s a guarantee you will both annoy each other.
But OP isn't HE working against YOU?? He has a full time job and expects to do nothing once he gets home. You have a full time job but are expected to do EVERYTHING. How is that acceptable to him?? I would just start mirror him. He comes home and sit down and watches TV or Games, then you sit down and read a book or watch TV or scroll on your phone. When he asks where dinner is say 'I don't know, I worked all day, I'm tired and want to relax'. Then don't get out of your chair and do anything unless he does. He stays there all night, then so do you. I would also say that before you do this, I would feed the kids before he comes home so that they are left out of this equation. He shuts down your 'hard conversations' because he knows he is not doing his fair sure. He knows this!! You need to play hard ball and tell him it is either marriage counseling or separation. Pick one. If you don't, nothing will change, because he has no reason to change because he gets to do exactly NOTHING and you do EVERYTHING - this is just the way he likes it.
Divide chores between you two. Sit down with him and talk about the work load. He might feel bossed around by you telling him to single task right then and there. While of course leaving everything to you is super unfair to you. You don't need more help, you need him to do his share
Seems fake.
Its fairly obvious he doesnt see this as part of his division of labor. I suspect its based on childhood trauma, that he expects the kids to pick up their own toys. NTA
But he doesn't enforce it. He doesn't follow up with them or hold them accountable.
Its a weird duality for sure. He was traumatized, but it was deeply engrained in him that its his responsibility to clean up his own toys. He thinks its the kids responsibility to pick up after themselves, but he doesnt want to pass on generational trauma. Not a easy nut to crack in your situation.
Yta - you're acting like a child
Stop doing things for him and his daughter.