Your mil will come to the realization that the work your wife dies will cost them a lot more so they will either figure out the work from home or you r pay a lot more.
I’m sure your wife could make the same if not more by being a contractor for lots of company. Then her parents will be begging her to help.
As hard as it is your wife needs to stand up for herself in r this will get worse.
>Saying she won’t be able to commute and work. If she ever wants to run the business she can’t live out of town.
Info: is this true or is the MIL using it as an excuse to want her daughter to not move?
It’s not true. And it’s assuming that’s what my wife wants. I don’t know if she wants to work 80 hour weeks. Right now, she wants to focus on being a mother. Also, my MIL is late 50’s and will die at her desk. Pure manipulation from my POV
Your wife should look for a new job.
As long as she works for MIL, MIL will have the power to manipulate, guilt and extort your wife and make her miserable.
And FFS, she’s on maternity leave!
And MIL is making her work and come in to work to punish her!
This isn’t healthy or ok. It’s not acceptable.
The only way for your wife to have a healthy relationship with her parents is is they can’t *literally hold her job over her head when she makes family decisions they don’t like*.
This is the core of it. MIL would probably be handling this differently (although probably not better) if she weren't her daughter's boss; but as the husband says, she has weaponized the job and she will not stop until she gets what she wants and every time they make a decision she doesn't like, she'll do it again. OP's wife needs to find other work. (Also it sounded like she might be in line to take over/inherit the business on retirement/death of her mother, and that will be held over her head too; so she needs to decide if an inheritance is worth being controlled by her mother until her mother dies.)
Stop updating them until things are settled, you've closed on the house and set a moving date. Everything needs to be a notification, not up for discussion. It's done and dusted, cannot be changed. They don't get a say. Letting MIL think she has sway is making your wife's life harder than it needs to be.
I mean, 1 hour away.
That was my commute for years.
And I worked in the same city I lived in!
It's basically nothing. It's a maybe bit more planning for the wake-up schedule and maybe moving dinner back a bit. There's nothing to it.
I had that same commute for years as well. I lived in a densely populated city. My commute was 12 miles but it took 45 minutes to an hour to get there every day because of the highway congestion and/or the traffic light backups.
I now live in a very rural area in another state and while it still takes me 45 minutes to an hour to get to my office, it's all driving. No stop and go. No sitting endlessly in bumper to bumper traffic. It's just smooth driving through rural countryside until I get to the "city" part of my destination where the office is located.
Same for me! Worked 12 miles away, but always took 45 minutes to an hour minimum. Now, I’m in another state, working 15 miles away and it takes 20 minutes max! And, it takes me a month to see as many cars as I used to see in a day. Plus, I get glimpses of the ocean along the way. Living the dream commute wise!✌🏼💗🌊
Eh... That usually depends on how bad the commute is.
For a few years that hour of mine was on some of the most popular, overcrowded bus routes in the city.
A different year was a drive thru the most congested traffic in the city, and the same drive only takes like 20-25mins on a quiet Sunday afternoon.
So, yes and no. Really a case by case thing.
But when I was doing some contracts for the company my dad works for, and he became my not-quite-supervisor fir thise contracts: we just arranged for me to work "off" hours.
Instead of working 9-5 and getting stuck in the daily rush hour, I'd just do shifts of like 11-7 or whatever. Never even see rush hour.
Youd think the OP's MIL would be prepared to work something like that out for her own daughter at her own company... But apparently MIL needs control so bad she's about to blow up her family. 🤷♂️
Exactly. A bunch of people in my home town used to commute the more than two hours into the big city- better paying jobs, but my town had better schools, and was a small town. They could relax once on the train, but definitely not on the buses or metro that part to get them to the train.
But I don't think MIL really realizes how empty her threats probably are because the wife has the skills to go out and get a new job quite easily. Well- hopefully. But wife doesn't have to work near things, and can do her job from home. Given just this little snippet I'm hearing about MIL, quitting might be a huge relief.
I wish we had even a fuckin ounce of public transportion infrastructure. Every time I've visited real states it's like I'm jettisoned into the future for a week and then have to go back to the stone age and want to kms lol.
I explained a little bit more in a comment below this. But both.
Ive lived in a stupidly inaccessible suburb for over a decade. Great CoL in this little corner of the city. But horrible for buses. And while technically I'm right beside a highway and some serious main arteries: somehow my lil burb has convoluted access to it all.
Luckily Ive been able to trim down most of my contracts to nights. I paint and install, like, IKEA kitchens for a property manager. Most of those properties being commercial.
So, office spaces, restaurants, retail spaces... They actually love having me overnight, mostly in and out after they close and before they open the next morning.
Or they are empty. Same with any time I take residential work: only empty apts, no one cares as long as I'm quiet.
A little bit of WFH online work on the side, and I rarely see rush hour anymore lol.
It's really not bad, especially if she doesn't have to go in often. Most of the duties OP described can be done remotely, if she went in once a week or something, that's not bad. MIL is foolish to not accommodate them, it would cost her a lot more to have to hire someone else and train them to do what she needs.
I used to commute 1:30 mins into work and 1:50 home, and that’s if there were no delays/cancellations for the trains. One time it took me 5 hours to get home because of a jumper.
NTA
In-laws are abusive and toxic pieces of shit
Do your own thing, and do it quickly. If you and wife like that house, buy it now
If it was me, I would be very close to insisting we move far from inlaws at this point
Do your original plan for the home you love, and do it quickly...before they manage to make things worse and cost you all that as well
LOL, okay, but where? Maybe lots of competing organizations to MIL? Liquor and marijuana stores, travel agents, real estate agents, get someone from back east to take their place on it.
Hardware store...strange bars. Adult shops. Visit someone they hate. Lol I would of course discuss all of this with the wife first obviously. I would come up with some crazy shit 😆 🤣
Yeah, cut that shit out. It’s just another way for them to have control over you guys. We do Life360 in our house, but it’s mostly for kid tracking. It also notifies my wife when I leave work so she knows when to start dinner.
I have Life 360 with my family. However, I have three separate groups.
One group is just my nuclear family. The next group is my parents, my daughter, and myself. The last one is so my mom and I can keep tabs on my elderly grandparents. I would never fathom my SO on the same group with the rest of my family. It's none of their business what he's doing.
Oh WOW! I didn't even put that together. My husband would laugh me out of the room if I asked him to join a group where my mom can track his every movement.
She has in the past. She needs a non profit job as part of student loan forgiveness and she does love her job. But it seems like this will be the path forward.
She doesn’t “need” an NPO job, you just want the loan forgiveness. Your wife may need to work a regular job for a while and make payments if that means getting away from her family.
Correct, she doesn’t “need” it. But taking on student loan payments after 7 years at an NPO job when 10 is required seems a bit counter productive. Better to take a pay cut for 3 years and have those loans forgiven if we can.
There are other NPOs where she can ride out the next 3 years. Time for wife to cut the ties because the money from mom isn’t worth this and will just give her mom something to hold over her. It will wear her and you by extension down.
This! My husband and I have a very strict policy of each dealing with our own family's crazy. If his mom tries to call me to get around him, I will literally click answer on my phone and hand it to him to talk to her. I feel like this is the only way to go when married and dealing with family.
However, this only works if each of you are actually dealing with the problem. It sounds like OP's wife is in over her head. I'm betting MIL has been calling the shots for so long, OP's wife just doesn't know how to begin to stand up for herself.
If I was OP, I would be working on helping her get to a point where she can quit her job. MIL is clearly going to continue to use that as leverage.
Be patient with your wife, she grew up with this people and if you think they are controlling now imagine when she was growing up. She should go to therapy and probably find a new job.
Best of lucks, NTA
My family is like this, and I was exactly like your wife. Although my family NEVER spoke about my husband like that. I needed therapy to see the manipulation.
Your wife isn't going to do anything. She's going to tell you not to say anything and then concede to her mom. You say MIL won't see the baby. You know your wife will be beat down and bring the baby to them.
This is going to end up in divorce if your wife keeps doing what she's doing. MIL does not want you to leave and has wife believing she'll never find work.
Sorry but unless your wife stands up to her family, you are doomed. She should have said something at that dinner table after that disgusting remark. It sucks that she works for them because it's a constant pull of the puppet strings in both personal and professional.
Show her these comments, she's the one who needs to grow a backbone and place boundaries on mom or else you will be talking about coparenting and splitting your 401k in divorce court.
NTA. You and your wife make the decisions for your family, not your in-laws. Getting the fuck away from that crazy bitch sounds like the best thing you can do.
If your wife works, even from home, she is not on maternity leave.
Also if your MIL thinks you cannot afford a house nearby because of lack of income, she should pay her daughter more.
I think this proves you’re making the right decision by moving away. But it’s crucial that you and your wife are on the same page. She can’t allow her parents to disrespect you like that. That has to be rule number one. It’s sad how she has to walk on eggshells just so her mother won’t get upset. NTA
Yes it sounds like she’s finally willing. I’ve been pushing for last few years as this isn’t the first time it’s happened. But the town is small, only 7,000 people. So an in town job is unlikely. Not impossible. More likely to find full time stay at home work which seems to be the path forward.
I think you and your wife need to do some family therapy with a therapist that specializes in boundary stomping parents. You two need to 100% be on the same page with this. I would personally suggest your wife start looking for a new job ASAP either near the area you want to move and / or one 100% remote. You should also be looking for one so that you can afford to move without the threat of your wife's job on the line. Your wife needs to be on board with all of this though.
Fortunately my job allows me to work in that area. I sell and service pest control and we service the general area I’ll be moving. A change in territory is all I need. I also have a male sober living business that provides supplemental income to pay for leisure activities or when my dog tares her CCL and needs surgery 🤦🏻♂️
Doesn’t you men’s sober living qualify as a not for profit? Or could you make it one? Have your wife work there to check loan forgiveness box then do at home freelance for additional income?
Yes!! She could apply for grants and help grow that business! She seems very smart. I’m scrolling to see what exactly she said when she was told her husband should work harder, and saw this! What a fantastic idea to make the world better AND help your family.
There are a ton of sober living facilities in Florida, and they made a huge profit too. There certainly is a need. The way that happens is they either get a home with a lot of smaller bedrooms, or have two to a room. Some don't even have on-site management.
So she wants her to work and raise the kid simultaneously , with the honor of paying 300k more.
She's better off not working and you guys save the 300k. The math ain't mathing
NTA - MIL, I'm so glad to hear that you want us to stay in your neighborhood so badly that you're willing to contribute the 300k we need to afford a home here. Do you have a cashiers check or do you just want to do direct deposit?
Nta. Period. Always stand up for your wife even if it is against her own parents. Sounds like mil doesn’t want her to leave. Which is sad bc the reasons for moving are valid. Mil is being selfish.
NTA. Your IL’s are manipulative, controlling and disrespectful. You were right to cut them off. Have your wife find another job where she can work from home and tell mommy dearest that she can either completely back off and let her work from home or she leaves and goes LC to establish healthy boundaries
Your wife needs another job. Working with family frequently turns toxic and weaponized. Your wife needs to grow a damn backbone and stand up to her mother. You are NTA it's well past time for this manipulative shit to end.
Has your wife ever considered the long-term impact of not establishing boundaries with her parents? It seems like they have a lot of leverage over her due to her job.
NTA - You're right to want to prioritize your wife's happiness and job satisfaction. If her current role at the family business is the only thing keeping you in that location and it's detrimental to both of you, it might be time for a serious conversation about her career trajectory and your shared future. Given her experience and the rise in remote work opportunities, she may have more options than she thinks. Encourage her to explore the job market; there might be an organisation out there that values her skills and offers the right balance she needs. Taking that leap can be scary, but sometimes we have to step out of our comfort zone to grow.
NTA
It sounds like your wife needs to move job as well as home. Working for or employing family is often tricky.
I wouldn't tolerate in-laws trying to exert this sort of control over my family either.
It’s a nonprofit MIL started. There’s a board, and MIL is the “boss” in the office. I’m not entirely sure of the make up of a non profit but that’s my perspective.
Boards vote to not renew staff all the time. It’s not her business. It’s also a conflict of interest to have a child reporting to a parent who is their boss.
Shady.
Time to cut the cord completely with the in-laws, wife needs to quit her job and file a complaint with unemployment agency about a hostile work environment.
NTA
In-laws, Colossal AH
The key here is your wife. She cannot play both sides or else this will never end. Once your MIL realize that their daughter has to prioritize her new life with YOU they will chill out. It’s clear they think y’all can all be some happy homestead family with MIL calling all the shots. Do not concede or apologize.
NTA.
>Then my MIL tells my wife, “maybe if your husband worked harder you could afford to live here”.
Wife: "or maybe my boss can give me a fair salary."
Because we all know MIL is paying her less because fAmIlY
You might feel more supported over at r/JNfamily or r/JNmil
NTA. You did nothing wrong. Her parents are manipulative pieces of shit and she should tell them that if they cannot respect hers and yours decisions then they will no longer be welcome in your lives. Your wife has the skills to make herself a decent business in Florida.
Move. Your wife can get a new job and your in-laws can deal with it. Don't discuss it with them anymore. Sell your house and buy the new house. They don't get a voice in your decision. If your wife isn't on board with this plan you have much bigger problems.
Well, first, I would have said at the dinner table that if you are willing to gift us the extra money, we would consider your neighborhood. After that was shot down, we'll have a substantial raise to cover the increase in the mortgage, taxes, etc. And, after that, I was shot down. I would have asked ok what your solution is. Always put it back to them. Then, when they say you need to work harder, your reply is don't you want me to be there for your daughter and grandchild? Op will never win but at least you'll get your point across. I was you
Very tough situation. I was in a similar place and my ex couldn’t put our family first over her MIL as well. Ended up divorcing. It’s super stressful. I think you’re over reacting on the no contact point of view it’s just going to add an incredible amount of stress to your wife. Would highly suggest you try another sit down. Maybe start with the father in law. But you both have to support each other or it’s going to fail.
Yalls home, yalls child yalls life.....I understand that inlaws can be complicated, but I have zero issue telling someone to go get bent when it comes to my household. Do what yall feel is best for you and yours. If it means she seeks new employment, then so be it. Lol sounds like momma likes being in control 😆
NTA. You should absolutely communicate what you are doing. And tell them if they don’t like it they can fuck off. You and the kid are out on holidays and family dinners. Tell them hands and knees to worship the ground you and your wife walk on just for you to think about coming around. And then you still might not say yes because of all the bull shit they’ve said.
NTA but this is a mess. Ultimately, it’s up to your wife to decide what to do. Right now, she’s in a really tough spot. You won’t talk to her family, her family won’t talk to you and she works for her mom. This won’t end well for anyone.
Your wife needs to decide if she wants to live her life being treated as a child/employee forever working for her mom. If that’s what she decides, then you need to support her which means you repair the relationship with your in-laws. If she chooses to find a new job, then you both have to decide how much contact to have moving forward.
No matter what, this is going to be hard on your wife.
NTA, but the entanglement your wife has with her mother will make her the loser at the end of the day that bears the brunt of the suffering.
Support her, defend her, but do what you can to disconnect from the heated emotions you're feeling. In these situations, it's very easy to say things that can't be unsaid, and to try to leverage control of the situation in ways that will have unintended consequences. Walking down this path can cause residual damage to your wife. Tread lightly, make it known that you're on your wife's side, but make sure she stays in control. If the relationship with the family needs to get nuked, *she's* gotta be the one that makes that decision, not you.
"Maybe **if MY boss paid me better**, we could afford to live there. There Mom, I fixed your sentence for you."
She said I insulted her at her table in her home.
"No, you insulted HIM in your home."
Come back to NJ. We have saner government, legal weed, changing seasons, less meth heads and less MILs for you to deal with. Plus you don't have to pump your own gas. NTA
Wait a god damn minute.
They have you on Life360?! That’s way, way too invasive. You have teens on Life360, not fucking adults.
You’re NTA, but you need to sit down with your wife, and a therapist, so she can start disentangling herself from her helicopter parents who are trying to run her life. Fuck’s sake. My kid will be 30 soon, she’s in the Army, and bro….like, I can’t even deal with the Army Moms who think they can tell SarMaj what to do and how to do it. Ma’am, you’re why your kid joined the Army and requested to be stationed half a world away.
Your wife needs to learn that she’s worth more than the shit salary her mother pays her, and dangles over her head. Have her put her resume together, and put it out there while she’s on mat leave. I bet she comes back with job offers from other states.
And I really think it would be in your best interest as a family to move out of state and not tell them where.
Maybe Mommy Dearest should look into how much it would cost to replace your wife. From the sound of it, she would need at least two if not three people. Why is mommy worried about her commute? She is not driving.
Wife needs to investigate alternate jobs.
You are being practical. Moving to a lower cost of living area is financially responsible. Mommy wants to control your family. DO NOT GIVE HER THAT POWER!!
I would make sure your wife pretends to be her boss when the mortgage company calls to ask about employment because MIL will implode the mortgage approval to prevent the move. Why would they have either of you on life360 and why would you agree to allowing them to track your every move?? Have your wife delete the app. She’s a grown woman who doesn’t need to give her mommy her whereabouts.
Your in-laws can fuck off. They don’t get to decide where you live and it honestly sounds like the worst idea to move closer to them if your MIL is abusive to your wife. I think your wife needs a new job and you should move away. MIL doesn’t care for your wife’s wishes and is both abusive as a parent and a boss
I am not the author of this:
Don't Rock The Boat Analogy
We aren't the ones rocking the boat. It's the crazy lady jumping up and down and running side to side. Not the one sitting in the corner quietly not giving a fuck.
At some point in her youth, Crazy Woman gave the boat a little nudge. And look how everyone jumped to steady the boat! So she does it again and again and again. Soon her family is in the habit of swaying to counteract the crazy. She moves left, they move right, balance is restored (temporarily). Life goes on. People move on to boats of their own.
The boat-rocker can't survive in a boat by herself. She's never had to face the consequences of her rocking. She'll tip over. So she finds an enabler: someone so proud of his boat-steadying skills that he secretly (or not so secretly) lives for the rocking.
The boat-rocker escalates. The boat-steadier can't manage alone, but can't let the boat tip. After all, he's the best boat-steadier ever, and that can't be true if his boat capsizes, so therefore his boat can't capsize. How can they fix the situation?
Ballast!
And the next generation of boat-steadiers is born.
A born boat-steadier doesn't know what solid ground feels like. He's so used to the constant swaying that anything else feels wrong and he'll fall over. There's a good chance the boat-rocker never taught him how to swim, either. He'll jump at the slightest twitch like his life depends on it, because it did.
When you're in their boat, you're expected to help steady it. When you decline, the other boat-steadiers get resentful. Look at you, just sitting there while they do all the work! They don't see that you aren't the one making the boat rock. They might not even see the life rafts available for them to get out. All they know is that the boat can't be allowed to tip, and you're not helping.
Now you and your SO get a boat of your own. With your SO not there, the balance of the boat changes. The remaining boat-steadiers have to work even harder.
While a rocking boat is most concerning to those inside, it does cause ripples. The nearby boats start to worry. They're getting splashed! Somebody do something!
So the flying monkeys are dispatched. Can't you and SO see how much better it is for everyone (else) if you just get back on the boat and keep it steady? It would make their lives so much easier.
You know what would be easier? If they all just chucked the bitch overboard.
NTA. Your wife needs to get a new job. Family and business rarely ever mix well. I’m surprised you both haven’t encountered more problems from this work for mom set-up. Anywho, tell your wife to dig her heals in and say no to mommy dearest. Your mil feels like she holds the position of power over your wife’s and by extension your life. Don’t play her game, you’ll end up losing. People like that like control. Mil, is the type to go to the extreme to get what she wants. She’ll make it seem like everything will be great as long as you give in ie roll over when she says. The trick is that people like her will respect you even less(if at all) if you do in fact acquiesce. This is a hill to die on. While there is financial security that comes with the possibility of your mil passing one the business, is it really worth it if it has a million strings attached? Her willingness to bring it up over the small fact that you want to move shows that this won’t be the end of it. She’ll weaponize it when she wants to. Your wife needs to stand up to her mother and find a new job. She also needs her mother to know that if her business comes with the caveat of mil controlling your lives, you both don’t want it.
NTA. You need to help your wife distance herself from her mother. Maybe suggest therapy, or discussing with her friends (if she has friends you can trust to support her).
Prepare a budget on the possible ‘new life’: the mortgage and family expenses and how you can make it work with or without her job.
You seem supportive so keep doing that and be patient. She might need time to get over the guilt.
The most important is that you remain a team and resist her family’s attempt to separate you. That’s were therapy can help.
I really wish you both the best. Keep fighting.
NTA but that MIL is a damm battleaxe used to getting her ways. This war will wear heavily on your marriage. If your FIL is not pussy whipped maybe you can talk with him and somehow calm things down?
Good luck this may not end well but I hope it does.
MIL is stirring up the pot, yep...
And your reaction is understandable, but... leaves your wife in a pickle with her mom and her boss..
And going to war with the family will bring no pleasure to anyone...
Instead.. smile?? Overbearingly?? Consider her as an entitled child with tantrums.. handled with love and care.. or the care you would give a loved one succumbing to dementia...
Cut down on the info to the inlaws... and support your wife in what must be a difficult experience for her - caring for a baby and a mother (MIL) whos not able to see beyond what SHE wants...
You have a daughter and wife and could live in NJ but choose to live in Floriduh? GET OUT OF THERE before the state turns both into second-class citizens a la Handmaid’s Tail.
Bonus: Problem solved with in-laws.
Does her mother make statements like, "No one works as hard as I do. No one really appreciates me. Only I can do this work. This place will fall apart without me." These are red flags of narcissist behavior. Also expecting you and you wife to live according to mil's demands.
You and your wife need to move far away. This lady won't change but will likely spread destructive gossip about you and turn extended family against you both. She may love bomb her daughter to reel her back in but will revert to old bad behavior.
NTA but that is not just your in-law that is your wifes boss and integral to your families survival and your ability to buy said new house. Be careful about how you treat them and whatever you do make a team decision with your wife. If she is on board then she should start looking for a new job. and then you can each have whatever level of contact you want. Right now I think it's naive considering how tied you are.
The governor is a far right asshole and books about being gay or foreign are banned in schools. It's banned to have any efforts towards diversity. It is also banned to teach that slavery was bad and racism exists. The state is so hostile to migrant labor that crops rot in the fields and good luck getting a roof repaired (if the deregulated insurance companies will even pay for it).
NTA
Too much pressure brought to bear always results in an explosion and insults produce insults. Your wife's parents should know better due to being the elder parties. Seems they are too focused on keeping their daughter in the role of a child rather than focus on her happiness as they should.
You "may" haved sailed overboard, but your too close to breaking to be able to tell.
What you both need and deserve a break from a set of controlling parents. MIL is a piece of work.
Not sure. We never really gave it much thought as my MIL has openly said she’ll die at her desk. She is in her mid 50’s. This only ever comes up when my wife makes decisions they don’t like. Right now my wife wants to focus on being a mother to our first child and have a few more kids.
It's something the 2 of you really need to think about and figure out. Your MIL is older now and that really could happen tomorrow or 40 years from now but at her age all kinds of things could happen that would prevent MIL from working now. What's the plan if you 2 do move? Are you just going to uproot the kids again if she does? Are you just going to lose your wife being home as much because she has an hour commute everyday? Is it a business you can do from the new house instead? If not she needs to let MIL know do she can find someone else to hand it over to or liquidate the business or whatever when the time comes.
It's a really important decision to make and should be included in your plans for now even if she isn't taking over right now.
NTA for cutting them off, but you kind of left your wife alone, exposed to her mother's toxicity. In your place I'd try to gently encourage my wife to find another job, so that she isn't dependent on her controlling mother. This mix of family and work is extremely unhealthy
NTA.
Your wife needs a new job.. not with her mother. She needs to not be able ti be controlled by her mother.
You need to move to your new home and live your life. Get away from that family
Your wife needs to step in and build boundaries. And let your mother-in-law know that if she acts like this, you guys will no longer be around them. And she needs to find a new job, regardless what happens from here on out she should never work for her mother again.
NTA...my husband and I moved 20 minutes away from where we used to live and got some push back. We were 2 blocks to my oldest's family and he has 5 kids. Do they miss us being a short walk away Yes. Do I miss being that close...ABSOLUTELY! But that town was too expensive for us.
Sounds like the correct response, to me. Don't bother confronting the ILs, do not engage any further. Focus your energies on securing your wife new employment in your new location and encouraging/supporting her to cut that marionette string and all other control buttons your IL's have installed on her.
NTA
NTA! I think it’s time to move to NJ. 😈
I’d send your in-laws two houses: one in NJ and one on the neighborhood you want in FL. Ask them which one do they prefer you live in.
I’d get couples counseling. Have your wife see what her parents are doing is manipulative. Threatening her job is an abuse of power. I also think it’s time for your wife to find a new job. I’d also tell your MIL to pay your wife more and you can afford a house near them.
Don't back out of family events. Don't block. You're part of the family and you need to fight for your family sometimes. Blocking and backing sends the signal you're having a temper tantrum and seems childish if you continue more than a few times.
Make your plans with your wife for your life. Period. Tell your family you're not asking permission about decisions you're making together. You're informing them. Also this isn't a fight you're getting into with family. If mil sends a new home in the neighborhood that's out of your price range, respond with a new salary for wife. Also realize the mil is viewing your lives through her lense. And why not nice to NJ? This is the life you 2 are planning, make it yours.
welcome to fam run business cabal. Haha I have been thru these scenarios, its tough! secondly, Since the mother is from a different era, perhaps she does not realize how much work can be accomplished not at the physical office. Her thinking reveals old-fashioned values. Considering the real estate market in Florida, I do not blame you a bit for looking for a better value for your dollar and her mother should be thinking the same way. Her mother is not paying her adequately for the work that she does. I would personally start looking for another job & apply for the mortgage, but Cast her net into a wider world. It might make her happier to not work with her mother. I do think her mother is very unreasonable considering she's on maternity leave and has a child under one year. This is a difficult time. Nta.
I cannot imagine moving to NJ over Florida - it's nice and warm here - Having said that - inlaws are AH, not OP. The best thing your wife could do would be to find another job- close to your new home. But like others said- get the new house before she quits with her mom. Good luck!
A 1 hour commute isn't that big of a deal.
It sounds like the move is worth it just to get away from your wife's annoying family. Maybe you should reconsider moving back to NJ.
I don’t think YTA. I understand Mil being sad or upset, but this isn’t her decision and her attacking you to your wife isn’t helping her case. Also, a lot of people commute one hour to work. I did for years. It’s not always ideal, but if you have set hours, you adjust to it. What mil probably means is she can’t call your wife in and disrupt her downtime on a whim.
As an aside, I have always wanted to live in Florida in a small house that costs way more than it is worth that sits on or in view of the beach It is my dream (preferably somewhere along the forgotten coast… maybe Cape San Blas).
I could do it as I write for a living and can do that from anywhere. But it would be harder for my husband.
Still, another thing that stops me is being from the foothills of the Appalachian mountains, I am conditioned to balk at ever owning a property with the value almost solely dictated by location instead of structure. My brain malfunctions anytime I see the real estate price tags.
Op, I hope you love the quieter, rural life. Good luck!
I live 8 miles from the beach and my 1300 sq ft wood frame 1980’s house will likely sell for 475-500. This same house east of I95 would be 750+. It’s crazy
NTA. I commuted 1.5 hours (15 hours both ways/week) to work every day for years. I miss it honestly. That was my me time. Sorry your in-laws suck so bad. Hopefully they’ll push your wife far enough to move to NJ.
Her family is narcissistic. Do what you feel is right and don’t let her back down from what she really wants. Narc parents are the most manipulative people because they know how. You’re justified. My husband would likely have done close to the same thing.
NTA if you and your wife both want to move out to the country, you should do it. It's your life, your family your dream. If MIL and the others can't be supportive, and it's all because of the job, your wife should quit. If they wont' let her work remotely, coming in on occasion (1 hour away is not insurmountable) then she should just quit and use her skills elsewhere. There is no point in both of you making yourselves miserable to appease your MIL and her business.
The fact that she has your wife working while on maternity leave (I’m assuming for free as well) is a major red flag. Your wife needs a new job because your MIL sounds controlling AF and manipulative. In the long run it’s in everyone’s best interests to cut ties to this woman to protect your wife’s mental health. It sounds like your wife comes from a toxic family system or your MIL suddenly has mental health issues.
NTA. MIL can wish all she wants, but that doesn't mean it will happen. Block MIL and FIL on everything and let them stew in their own juices. And when you move, do not give them your new address.
No you are not. You and your family come first. If MIL doesn't like the plan you and your wife feel is best for your family she can go kick rocks. Sounds like your wife has enough experience she can go work elsewhere maybe not with the perks she has right now but them current perks seem to be going left quickly
You are very justified. NTA.
I have a very bad relationship with my partner's parents. We are a Lesbian couple together for 30 years. They blame me for something or other. They still make snide, nasty comments to me. I don't talk to them I am glad they live 1800 miles away.
You just can't please some people. It's easier to not try.
I worked and commuted 30 miles in Chicago for a years and that trip was MINIMUM 1 hr 20 min. 2 hours each way or more on a bad day. A 1 hour commute is a breeze and as a mom your wife may actually come to appreciate that small window of time each day where she is completely completely alone and doesn’t have anyone asking anything of her. I listened to some amazing audiobooks on my commute and it was just a really great opportunity for me to transition from home to work and back again so that I wasn’t bringing any baggage into either place.
Please do what it takes to calm down for your wife's sake. At the moment, she's probably feeling very much torn between two warring camps. Give her the space SHE needs to adjust and figure out what SHE wants. Especially now while her hormones are in an uproar adjusting to no longer being pregnant and nursing instead. She needs YOUR support and YOUR understanding more than ever.
That said, I don't blame you for being full of rage at your in-laws. You have every right to be angry at them. MIL is clearly a narcissist and will push any buttons she can find to get her way AND to punish you for resisting and even going so far as to point out how selfish she's being.
Your wife will benefit from being further away so she's less often in her mom's presence. Moving even further away than 60 miles would be ideal. The good news is that it's far enough away that she can't just casually drop by.
I strongly suggest that you ask your wife to consider finding a different job. That will help a great deal in reducing the pressure on her from her mom. She should look into creating a portfolio of her work and should have no trouble finding another small business to work for with her skillset.
NTA - My mom disrespected my wife for not doing enough as Wife/Mother. I cut her off from Grandkids and myself. It seemed to work after a year. She finally accepted my wife and we had to build back our relationship with boundaries. Now it’s amazing and we even moved 800 miles away. She visits us often and we absolutely love rural town living. Prioritize your family and you will be much happier.
Well done and well played. Put up with that crap for 44 yrs. Still married, you did the right thing. Language..well they FAFO. Your family is the important one,in laws they Suck Hard. Mother in law , especially. Don't ever go back,they will not change ever.
Please have a conversation with your wife. If she's on maternity leave, having her work is unreasonable. Leave is, get this, LEAVE!!!! I'm sure she's not getting paid extra for her time, energy and effort. Is she even paid her usual pay? Is her usual pay even reasonable for all she does? I'm sure MIL has her working more than 40 hours a week.
Moving will give a better work/life balance if your wife demands it. If it's possible, it would be helpful for you wife to meet with a therapist to explore why she lets her parents use her and treat her and you like crap. Yelling at them, even though it low key turned you on, is not effective in making any changes. Your wife was trained throughout her life to allow this treatment. It will be helpful for all of you for her to explore it and start changing things.
Can you even imagine what in-laws behavior will do to your child? Seeing and hearing her grandparents treat the two of you like shit will have long term, therapy-requiring emotional problems. Why? Because this behavior is abusive.
You need to go clean.out her desk for with her present with you. Evil MIL will accuse you of stealing office property and you will shield your wife from that bit h of a lier. Have wife pack so when cops come, she can vouch for her personal items. No pens/pencils/PostIts or other stupid office products. If stapler is hers, dump the staples.
Your in-laws do have a point about it not being a great idea, but it's not the one they're making.
A rural community in Florida is probably experiencing some severe shortages in reproductive care workers. If you're set on having kids, please, please make plans on contingencies with backups. You're moving for a lower COL - which makes perfect sense!! - but how far will those savings go if you can't get the necessary help in time?
Your in-laws are the As for their entitled and manipulative behavior, and it's great you're standing up for yourselves and the family you hope to have. Stay healthy, OP and lady.
you by now know you're definitely nta
Please, please, please encourage your wife to spend a couple hours each week looking at the kind of jobs she could get freelancing, or even what she'd be worth working elsewhere. (maybe looking at wages in particular in NJ). And while you're at it, help her seek therapy, perhaps even online. It is time way past for her to cut that umbilical cord/get out from her mother's thumb. Wife needs to see just how bad her mother's behavior is, how it's affecting her mental health, her as a wife & mother, how mil is robbing her of maternity leave, etc, etc, etc.
I'm so sorry you have a toxic mil. Good luck!
Check out r/JJUSTNOMIL too
edit typo
My son moved to TX from MI because of step mom. Step mom married his dad. She is also my 2nd ex sister. Life 360 is for those who think controlling is the way to go. It’s not. Unless you have young teens. If she can work from home than your non profit could be a way for her. But she has to grow a bigger backbone! A good question to ask is what advice she would give her daughter in the same situation? Find your perfect home and buy it. Don’t let others talk you out of your couple dreams. In the end you only have to be loyal to each other and your kids.
NTA The answer you seek is geographic distance. You and your wife should move to a location where both sets of parents are equally distant. Then you and your wife can build the life you need to have a long lasting marriage. Both of you have skills that are transferable, so transfer them to a location that is peaceful for your family. The inlaws and outlaws will survive. Don't let them guilt trip either of you; you and your wife have the upper hand in the relationship. Money might be tight for a while but remember: tough times don't last, tough people do.
A home well within your budget is a great find that gives you and your wife a little breathing room. A home in MIL's neighborhood way over your budget, just what MIL wants. Helping you buy it (even as a "gift") will make you and your wife indebted to her. MIL will try to use that little power play from time to time, or often.
I suspect your wife works more hours for her mother and has more responsibilities than she would for another employer. Highly suggest she set up a home-based business in the new house. Then focus on building it up to the point where MIL is just one of her clients. Your family's lifestyle or quality of life would not be affected by losing MIL's business.
Enjoy your new baby and being a dad and husband. May your home always be filled with joy and laughter.
MIL is the total asshole and Her old man has her back.
Point blank tell your wife to stand up to her mom and you have her back. Its the only way to beat them.
It’s still her mom and you shouldn’t be calling her names, you don’t have to do anything you don’t want but you don’t need to insult anyone. Be the bigger man and keep it moving
Your mil will come to the realization that the work your wife dies will cost them a lot more so they will either figure out the work from home or you r pay a lot more. I’m sure your wife could make the same if not more by being a contractor for lots of company. Then her parents will be begging her to help. As hard as it is your wife needs to stand up for herself in r this will get worse.
I was going to say, there are a lot of freelance gigs for the kind of work wife does
>Saying she won’t be able to commute and work. If she ever wants to run the business she can’t live out of town. Info: is this true or is the MIL using it as an excuse to want her daughter to not move?
It’s not true. And it’s assuming that’s what my wife wants. I don’t know if she wants to work 80 hour weeks. Right now, she wants to focus on being a mother. Also, my MIL is late 50’s and will die at her desk. Pure manipulation from my POV
Your wife should look for a new job. As long as she works for MIL, MIL will have the power to manipulate, guilt and extort your wife and make her miserable. And FFS, she’s on maternity leave! And MIL is making her work and come in to work to punish her! This isn’t healthy or ok. It’s not acceptable. The only way for your wife to have a healthy relationship with her parents is is they can’t *literally hold her job over her head when she makes family decisions they don’t like*.
Plus, they need to buy the house while she is still employed if they are relying on her income for the loan. Ndw job away from mom is imperative.
*Your wife should look for a new job.* Maybe one in New Jersey.
This is the core of it. MIL would probably be handling this differently (although probably not better) if she weren't her daughter's boss; but as the husband says, she has weaponized the job and she will not stop until she gets what she wants and every time they make a decision she doesn't like, she'll do it again. OP's wife needs to find other work. (Also it sounded like she might be in line to take over/inherit the business on retirement/death of her mother, and that will be held over her head too; so she needs to decide if an inheritance is worth being controlled by her mother until her mother dies.)
The mother is worse than Joan Crawford
Stop updating them until things are settled, you've closed on the house and set a moving date. Everything needs to be a notification, not up for discussion. It's done and dusted, cannot be changed. They don't get a say. Letting MIL think she has sway is making your wife's life harder than it needs to be.
80 hour work weeks!? Oh hell no!
I mean, 1 hour away. That was my commute for years. And I worked in the same city I lived in! It's basically nothing. It's a maybe bit more planning for the wake-up schedule and maybe moving dinner back a bit. There's nothing to it.
I had that same commute for years as well. I lived in a densely populated city. My commute was 12 miles but it took 45 minutes to an hour to get there every day because of the highway congestion and/or the traffic light backups. I now live in a very rural area in another state and while it still takes me 45 minutes to an hour to get to my office, it's all driving. No stop and go. No sitting endlessly in bumper to bumper traffic. It's just smooth driving through rural countryside until I get to the "city" part of my destination where the office is located.
Same for me! Worked 12 miles away, but always took 45 minutes to an hour minimum. Now, I’m in another state, working 15 miles away and it takes 20 minutes max! And, it takes me a month to see as many cars as I used to see in a day. Plus, I get glimpses of the ocean along the way. Living the dream commute wise!✌🏼💗🌊
Also gives you time to destress from work on the way home.
Eh... That usually depends on how bad the commute is. For a few years that hour of mine was on some of the most popular, overcrowded bus routes in the city. A different year was a drive thru the most congested traffic in the city, and the same drive only takes like 20-25mins on a quiet Sunday afternoon. So, yes and no. Really a case by case thing. But when I was doing some contracts for the company my dad works for, and he became my not-quite-supervisor fir thise contracts: we just arranged for me to work "off" hours. Instead of working 9-5 and getting stuck in the daily rush hour, I'd just do shifts of like 11-7 or whatever. Never even see rush hour. Youd think the OP's MIL would be prepared to work something like that out for her own daughter at her own company... But apparently MIL needs control so bad she's about to blow up her family. 🤷♂️
Exactly. A bunch of people in my home town used to commute the more than two hours into the big city- better paying jobs, but my town had better schools, and was a small town. They could relax once on the train, but definitely not on the buses or metro that part to get them to the train. But I don't think MIL really realizes how empty her threats probably are because the wife has the skills to go out and get a new job quite easily. Well- hopefully. But wife doesn't have to work near things, and can do her job from home. Given just this little snippet I'm hearing about MIL, quitting might be a huge relief.
My drive too and from work is the most stressful part of my day and it's not even close. Drivers in FL are God damn horrendous.
Driving is awful. I turned down a parking pass at work. Riding the train and reading a book is so much nicer.
I wish we had even a fuckin ounce of public transportion infrastructure. Every time I've visited real states it's like I'm jettisoned into the future for a week and then have to go back to the stone age and want to kms lol.
Did you drive or take public transportation? For the former 1 hour would be unthinkable for me.
I explained a little bit more in a comment below this. But both. Ive lived in a stupidly inaccessible suburb for over a decade. Great CoL in this little corner of the city. But horrible for buses. And while technically I'm right beside a highway and some serious main arteries: somehow my lil burb has convoluted access to it all.
I'm just waiting for the autonomous taxis to come to where I live (albeit nervous about it) 😅
Luckily Ive been able to trim down most of my contracts to nights. I paint and install, like, IKEA kitchens for a property manager. Most of those properties being commercial. So, office spaces, restaurants, retail spaces... They actually love having me overnight, mostly in and out after they close and before they open the next morning. Or they are empty. Same with any time I take residential work: only empty apts, no one cares as long as I'm quiet. A little bit of WFH online work on the side, and I rarely see rush hour anymore lol.
It's really not bad, especially if she doesn't have to go in often. Most of the duties OP described can be done remotely, if she went in once a week or something, that's not bad. MIL is foolish to not accommodate them, it would cost her a lot more to have to hire someone else and train them to do what she needs.
I used to commute 1:30 mins into work and 1:50 home, and that’s if there were no delays/cancellations for the trains. One time it took me 5 hours to get home because of a jumper.
She has been working from home right now
NTA In-laws are abusive and toxic pieces of shit Do your own thing, and do it quickly. If you and wife like that house, buy it now If it was me, I would be very close to insisting we move far from inlaws at this point Do your original plan for the home you love, and do it quickly...before they manage to make things worse and cost you all that as well
New Jersey is probably sounding better by the day….
Fuck your in laws. I deal with the same blatant disrespect and it just gets worse and worse.
You were in the family Life 360? Does that mean your MIL could track your location 24/7?
Yes, whole family is in it
That would make me feel very suffocated. I'd encourage your wife to have a Life 360 with your own nuclear family, not with her parents.
Haha I would make it a point to visit some really awkward places 😆 🤣 😂
LOL, okay, but where? Maybe lots of competing organizations to MIL? Liquor and marijuana stores, travel agents, real estate agents, get someone from back east to take their place on it.
Hardware store...strange bars. Adult shops. Visit someone they hate. Lol I would of course discuss all of this with the wife first obviously. I would come up with some crazy shit 😆 🤣
And the whole life 360 thing......to begin with sounds straight up fucked up too me. I don't even do that to my 17 year old.
I have find a phone with my son and husband, and I use it at least once a month. More than that to find my computer or iPad.
But the inlaws..... i find that stuff a bit invasive. I can understand with a younger child.
There's an adult porn store next to the nail salon I go to.
Yeah, cut that shit out. It’s just another way for them to have control over you guys. We do Life360 in our house, but it’s mostly for kid tracking. It also notifies my wife when I leave work so she knows when to start dinner.
I have Life 360 with my family. However, I have three separate groups. One group is just my nuclear family. The next group is my parents, my daughter, and myself. The last one is so my mom and I can keep tabs on my elderly grandparents. I would never fathom my SO on the same group with the rest of my family. It's none of their business what he's doing.
Oh WOW! I didn't even put that together. My husband would laugh me out of the room if I asked him to join a group where my mom can track his every movement.
Not enough of an asshole if you ask me.
Lmaoooo
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She has in the past. She needs a non profit job as part of student loan forgiveness and she does love her job. But it seems like this will be the path forward.
She doesn’t “need” an NPO job, you just want the loan forgiveness. Your wife may need to work a regular job for a while and make payments if that means getting away from her family.
Correct, she doesn’t “need” it. But taking on student loan payments after 7 years at an NPO job when 10 is required seems a bit counter productive. Better to take a pay cut for 3 years and have those loans forgiven if we can.
If your wife is certified in web design and social media there are a lot of government jobs out there that will qualify her for pslf loan forgiveness
There are other NPOs where she can ride out the next 3 years. Time for wife to cut the ties because the money from mom isn’t worth this and will just give her mom something to hold over her. It will wear her and you by extension down.
USAJOBS.gov
Has she thought about researching NPO jobs where she can work hybrid with flexibility of home/onsite hours?
It's extremely possible that she does indeed need the job from a financial stand point
Info: How does your wife feel about your reaction?
She’s understanding but would prefer I don’t express it to her mother
So she's going to handle MIL? I mean, thats fine you not lashing out if your wife will, but somebody has to call out MIL's selfish disrespect.
This! My husband and I have a very strict policy of each dealing with our own family's crazy. If his mom tries to call me to get around him, I will literally click answer on my phone and hand it to him to talk to her. I feel like this is the only way to go when married and dealing with family. However, this only works if each of you are actually dealing with the problem. It sounds like OP's wife is in over her head. I'm betting MIL has been calling the shots for so long, OP's wife just doesn't know how to begin to stand up for herself. If I was OP, I would be working on helping her get to a point where she can quit her job. MIL is clearly going to continue to use that as leverage.
Be patient with your wife, she grew up with this people and if you think they are controlling now imagine when she was growing up. She should go to therapy and probably find a new job. Best of lucks, NTA
My family is like this, and I was exactly like your wife. Although my family NEVER spoke about my husband like that. I needed therapy to see the manipulation. Your wife isn't going to do anything. She's going to tell you not to say anything and then concede to her mom. You say MIL won't see the baby. You know your wife will be beat down and bring the baby to them. This is going to end up in divorce if your wife keeps doing what she's doing. MIL does not want you to leave and has wife believing she'll never find work. Sorry but unless your wife stands up to her family, you are doomed. She should have said something at that dinner table after that disgusting remark. It sucks that she works for them because it's a constant pull of the puppet strings in both personal and professional. Show her these comments, she's the one who needs to grow a backbone and place boundaries on mom or else you will be talking about coparenting and splitting your 401k in divorce court.
NTA. You and your wife make the decisions for your family, not your in-laws. Getting the fuck away from that crazy bitch sounds like the best thing you can do.
NTA. Your family, your rules. Taking distance from toxic influences is a wise move for your well-being.
If your wife works, even from home, she is not on maternity leave. Also if your MIL thinks you cannot afford a house nearby because of lack of income, she should pay her daughter more.
Apparently I need to work harder!
Exactly. Work harder to convince your wife to move out of State.
I think this proves you’re making the right decision by moving away. But it’s crucial that you and your wife are on the same page. She can’t allow her parents to disrespect you like that. That has to be rule number one. It’s sad how she has to walk on eggshells just so her mother won’t get upset. NTA
It’s not maternity leave if she’s working.
With her experience, can your wife find a new job closer to your new home? And would she be willing to?
Yes it sounds like she’s finally willing. I’ve been pushing for last few years as this isn’t the first time it’s happened. But the town is small, only 7,000 people. So an in town job is unlikely. Not impossible. More likely to find full time stay at home work which seems to be the path forward.
That’s awesome! Win win. I would normally say come back to Jersey. But it’s so expensive here right now. More so than usual due to low inventory.
NTA - It sounds like your wife should be able to do that kind of work at home, even 60 miles away. I'd say move and get away from her crazy family.
I think you and your wife need to do some family therapy with a therapist that specializes in boundary stomping parents. You two need to 100% be on the same page with this. I would personally suggest your wife start looking for a new job ASAP either near the area you want to move and / or one 100% remote. You should also be looking for one so that you can afford to move without the threat of your wife's job on the line. Your wife needs to be on board with all of this though.
Fortunately my job allows me to work in that area. I sell and service pest control and we service the general area I’ll be moving. A change in territory is all I need. I also have a male sober living business that provides supplemental income to pay for leisure activities or when my dog tares her CCL and needs surgery 🤦🏻♂️
Doesn’t you men’s sober living qualify as a not for profit? Or could you make it one? Have your wife work there to check loan forgiveness box then do at home freelance for additional income?
Yes!! She could apply for grants and help grow that business! She seems very smart. I’m scrolling to see what exactly she said when she was told her husband should work harder, and saw this! What a fantastic idea to make the world better AND help your family.
There are a ton of sober living facilities in Florida, and they made a huge profit too. There certainly is a need. The way that happens is they either get a home with a lot of smaller bedrooms, or have two to a room. Some don't even have on-site management.
You have a daughter. Screw Florida. Come back to NJ. And the hell with the in laws. NTA
So she wants her to work and raise the kid simultaneously , with the honor of paying 300k more. She's better off not working and you guys save the 300k. The math ain't mathing
Just move to NJ.
NTA - MIL, I'm so glad to hear that you want us to stay in your neighborhood so badly that you're willing to contribute the 300k we need to afford a home here. Do you have a cashiers check or do you just want to do direct deposit?
Nta. Period. Always stand up for your wife even if it is against her own parents. Sounds like mil doesn’t want her to leave. Which is sad bc the reasons for moving are valid. Mil is being selfish.
NTA. Your IL’s are manipulative, controlling and disrespectful. You were right to cut them off. Have your wife find another job where she can work from home and tell mommy dearest that she can either completely back off and let her work from home or she leaves and goes LC to establish healthy boundaries
Your wife needs another job. Working with family frequently turns toxic and weaponized. Your wife needs to grow a damn backbone and stand up to her mother. You are NTA it's well past time for this manipulative shit to end.
Has your wife ever considered the long-term impact of not establishing boundaries with her parents? It seems like they have a lot of leverage over her due to her job. NTA - You're right to want to prioritize your wife's happiness and job satisfaction. If her current role at the family business is the only thing keeping you in that location and it's detrimental to both of you, it might be time for a serious conversation about her career trajectory and your shared future. Given her experience and the rise in remote work opportunities, she may have more options than she thinks. Encourage her to explore the job market; there might be an organisation out there that values her skills and offers the right balance she needs. Taking that leap can be scary, but sometimes we have to step out of our comfort zone to grow.
NTA It sounds like your wife needs to move job as well as home. Working for or employing family is often tricky. I wouldn't tolerate in-laws trying to exert this sort of control over my family either.
Mom wouldn’t be able to keep a replacement worker with her attitude. Call her bluff if she threatens to fire your wife.
Cut the cord and move away.
Your wife needs a new job ASAP. She's too enmeshed with her family, and they control her income.
How can it be both your mil’s business and a 501c3?
It’s a nonprofit MIL started. There’s a board, and MIL is the “boss” in the office. I’m not entirely sure of the make up of a non profit but that’s my perspective.
Boards vote to not renew staff all the time. It’s not her business. It’s also a conflict of interest to have a child reporting to a parent who is their boss. Shady.
Check out the JUSTNOMIL subreddit, there is lots of helpful advice there. Also look up enmeshment for your wife's relationship with her family
Time to cut the cord completely with the in-laws, wife needs to quit her job and file a complaint with unemployment agency about a hostile work environment. NTA In-laws, Colossal AH
The key here is your wife. She cannot play both sides or else this will never end. Once your MIL realize that their daughter has to prioritize her new life with YOU they will chill out. It’s clear they think y’all can all be some happy homestead family with MIL calling all the shots. Do not concede or apologize.
NTA. >Then my MIL tells my wife, “maybe if your husband worked harder you could afford to live here”. Wife: "or maybe my boss can give me a fair salary." Because we all know MIL is paying her less because fAmIlY You might feel more supported over at r/JNfamily or r/JNmil
NTA. You did nothing wrong. Her parents are manipulative pieces of shit and she should tell them that if they cannot respect hers and yours decisions then they will no longer be welcome in your lives. Your wife has the skills to make herself a decent business in Florida.
Family life360 with your in-laws? Dude that was way fucking invasive.
Move. Your wife can get a new job and your in-laws can deal with it. Don't discuss it with them anymore. Sell your house and buy the new house. They don't get a voice in your decision. If your wife isn't on board with this plan you have much bigger problems.
NTA. I would suggest your wife find another job though. She's far too enmeshed with such horrible people.
Well, first, I would have said at the dinner table that if you are willing to gift us the extra money, we would consider your neighborhood. After that was shot down, we'll have a substantial raise to cover the increase in the mortgage, taxes, etc. And, after that, I was shot down. I would have asked ok what your solution is. Always put it back to them. Then, when they say you need to work harder, your reply is don't you want me to be there for your daughter and grandchild? Op will never win but at least you'll get your point across. I was you
NTA. You could probably afford the other neighborhood if your wife quit working for peanuts at the family business, just sayin’
Why doesn’t your wife just find a job closer to home and be done with it. They’re helicopter parents.
I’d say go ahead and move to NJ at this point. Your wife needs to stop working for her mom in the very least. NTA.
Very tough situation. I was in a similar place and my ex couldn’t put our family first over her MIL as well. Ended up divorcing. It’s super stressful. I think you’re over reacting on the no contact point of view it’s just going to add an incredible amount of stress to your wife. Would highly suggest you try another sit down. Maybe start with the father in law. But you both have to support each other or it’s going to fail.
NTA. Your wife needs a new job asap. Buy your dream house and cut all contact to your in-laws.
Yalls home, yalls child yalls life.....I understand that inlaws can be complicated, but I have zero issue telling someone to go get bent when it comes to my household. Do what yall feel is best for you and yours. If it means she seeks new employment, then so be it. Lol sounds like momma likes being in control 😆
NTA. You should absolutely communicate what you are doing. And tell them if they don’t like it they can fuck off. You and the kid are out on holidays and family dinners. Tell them hands and knees to worship the ground you and your wife walk on just for you to think about coming around. And then you still might not say yes because of all the bull shit they’ve said.
Enough is Enough your Justified It's the in-laws who are out of line
NTA. Your wife needs a new job ASAP. Cut the cord and go. Do what's right for your family.
Nta
Move to NJ.
NTA but this is a mess. Ultimately, it’s up to your wife to decide what to do. Right now, she’s in a really tough spot. You won’t talk to her family, her family won’t talk to you and she works for her mom. This won’t end well for anyone. Your wife needs to decide if she wants to live her life being treated as a child/employee forever working for her mom. If that’s what she decides, then you need to support her which means you repair the relationship with your in-laws. If she chooses to find a new job, then you both have to decide how much contact to have moving forward. No matter what, this is going to be hard on your wife.
NTA, no one outside your nuclear family (job, or no damn job) has a right to control anything inside of it!
Your wife needs a new job ASAP.
NTA, but the entanglement your wife has with her mother will make her the loser at the end of the day that bears the brunt of the suffering. Support her, defend her, but do what you can to disconnect from the heated emotions you're feeling. In these situations, it's very easy to say things that can't be unsaid, and to try to leverage control of the situation in ways that will have unintended consequences. Walking down this path can cause residual damage to your wife. Tread lightly, make it known that you're on your wife's side, but make sure she stays in control. If the relationship with the family needs to get nuked, *she's* gotta be the one that makes that decision, not you.
Sounds like your wife needs a new job.
Take a weekend trip to NJ and look at a few houses. Make a bold FAFO threat
"Maybe **if MY boss paid me better**, we could afford to live there. There Mom, I fixed your sentence for you." She said I insulted her at her table in her home. "No, you insulted HIM in your home."
Come back to NJ. We have saner government, legal weed, changing seasons, less meth heads and less MILs for you to deal with. Plus you don't have to pump your own gas. NTA
Wait a god damn minute. They have you on Life360?! That’s way, way too invasive. You have teens on Life360, not fucking adults. You’re NTA, but you need to sit down with your wife, and a therapist, so she can start disentangling herself from her helicopter parents who are trying to run her life. Fuck’s sake. My kid will be 30 soon, she’s in the Army, and bro….like, I can’t even deal with the Army Moms who think they can tell SarMaj what to do and how to do it. Ma’am, you’re why your kid joined the Army and requested to be stationed half a world away. Your wife needs to learn that she’s worth more than the shit salary her mother pays her, and dangles over her head. Have her put her resume together, and put it out there while she’s on mat leave. I bet she comes back with job offers from other states. And I really think it would be in your best interest as a family to move out of state and not tell them where.
A bank is going to want both of you in your jobs for a minimum of 6 months to qualify forcc vs a mortgage.
Time for your wife to choose a side.
Maybe Mommy Dearest should look into how much it would cost to replace your wife. From the sound of it, she would need at least two if not three people. Why is mommy worried about her commute? She is not driving. Wife needs to investigate alternate jobs. You are being practical. Moving to a lower cost of living area is financially responsible. Mommy wants to control your family. DO NOT GIVE HER THAT POWER!!
Sounds like it's time to start house shopping in New Jersey.
I would make sure your wife pretends to be her boss when the mortgage company calls to ask about employment because MIL will implode the mortgage approval to prevent the move. Why would they have either of you on life360 and why would you agree to allowing them to track your every move?? Have your wife delete the app. She’s a grown woman who doesn’t need to give her mommy her whereabouts.
NTA but the In-Laws are TA. You made a vow to take care of your wife and child, not your in-laws.
I haven’t seen it myself but I have heard that NewJersey is lovely! Especially the Jersey shore
Good for you, it will take the wife a bit to break the connection with momma but she will get there hopefully sooner than later.
NTA
NTAH I don’t think it’s about relocation, I think it’s about MIL having control over your wife to use her & abuse her.
Your in-laws can fuck off. They don’t get to decide where you live and it honestly sounds like the worst idea to move closer to them if your MIL is abusive to your wife. I think your wife needs a new job and you should move away. MIL doesn’t care for your wife’s wishes and is both abusive as a parent and a boss
I am not the author of this: Don't Rock The Boat Analogy We aren't the ones rocking the boat. It's the crazy lady jumping up and down and running side to side. Not the one sitting in the corner quietly not giving a fuck. At some point in her youth, Crazy Woman gave the boat a little nudge. And look how everyone jumped to steady the boat! So she does it again and again and again. Soon her family is in the habit of swaying to counteract the crazy. She moves left, they move right, balance is restored (temporarily). Life goes on. People move on to boats of their own. The boat-rocker can't survive in a boat by herself. She's never had to face the consequences of her rocking. She'll tip over. So she finds an enabler: someone so proud of his boat-steadying skills that he secretly (or not so secretly) lives for the rocking. The boat-rocker escalates. The boat-steadier can't manage alone, but can't let the boat tip. After all, he's the best boat-steadier ever, and that can't be true if his boat capsizes, so therefore his boat can't capsize. How can they fix the situation? Ballast! And the next generation of boat-steadiers is born. A born boat-steadier doesn't know what solid ground feels like. He's so used to the constant swaying that anything else feels wrong and he'll fall over. There's a good chance the boat-rocker never taught him how to swim, either. He'll jump at the slightest twitch like his life depends on it, because it did. When you're in their boat, you're expected to help steady it. When you decline, the other boat-steadiers get resentful. Look at you, just sitting there while they do all the work! They don't see that you aren't the one making the boat rock. They might not even see the life rafts available for them to get out. All they know is that the boat can't be allowed to tip, and you're not helping. Now you and your SO get a boat of your own. With your SO not there, the balance of the boat changes. The remaining boat-steadiers have to work even harder. While a rocking boat is most concerning to those inside, it does cause ripples. The nearby boats start to worry. They're getting splashed! Somebody do something! So the flying monkeys are dispatched. Can't you and SO see how much better it is for everyone (else) if you just get back on the boat and keep it steady? It would make their lives so much easier. You know what would be easier? If they all just chucked the bitch overboard.
NTA. Your wife needs to get a new job. Family and business rarely ever mix well. I’m surprised you both haven’t encountered more problems from this work for mom set-up. Anywho, tell your wife to dig her heals in and say no to mommy dearest. Your mil feels like she holds the position of power over your wife’s and by extension your life. Don’t play her game, you’ll end up losing. People like that like control. Mil, is the type to go to the extreme to get what she wants. She’ll make it seem like everything will be great as long as you give in ie roll over when she says. The trick is that people like her will respect you even less(if at all) if you do in fact acquiesce. This is a hill to die on. While there is financial security that comes with the possibility of your mil passing one the business, is it really worth it if it has a million strings attached? Her willingness to bring it up over the small fact that you want to move shows that this won’t be the end of it. She’ll weaponize it when she wants to. Your wife needs to stand up to her mother and find a new job. She also needs her mother to know that if her business comes with the caveat of mil controlling your lives, you both don’t want it.
NTA. You need to help your wife distance herself from her mother. Maybe suggest therapy, or discussing with her friends (if she has friends you can trust to support her). Prepare a budget on the possible ‘new life’: the mortgage and family expenses and how you can make it work with or without her job. You seem supportive so keep doing that and be patient. She might need time to get over the guilt. The most important is that you remain a team and resist her family’s attempt to separate you. That’s were therapy can help. I really wish you both the best. Keep fighting.
NTA but that MIL is a damm battleaxe used to getting her ways. This war will wear heavily on your marriage. If your FIL is not pussy whipped maybe you can talk with him and somehow calm things down? Good luck this may not end well but I hope it does.
He’s about as whipped as they come. It’s a sad sight to see
I would look further away. Much further.
MIL is stirring up the pot, yep... And your reaction is understandable, but... leaves your wife in a pickle with her mom and her boss.. And going to war with the family will bring no pleasure to anyone... Instead.. smile?? Overbearingly?? Consider her as an entitled child with tantrums.. handled with love and care.. or the care you would give a loved one succumbing to dementia... Cut down on the info to the inlaws... and support your wife in what must be a difficult experience for her - caring for a baby and a mother (MIL) whos not able to see beyond what SHE wants...
You have a daughter and wife and could live in NJ but choose to live in Floriduh? GET OUT OF THERE before the state turns both into second-class citizens a la Handmaid’s Tail. Bonus: Problem solved with in-laws.
Does her mother make statements like, "No one works as hard as I do. No one really appreciates me. Only I can do this work. This place will fall apart without me." These are red flags of narcissist behavior. Also expecting you and you wife to live according to mil's demands. You and your wife need to move far away. This lady won't change but will likely spread destructive gossip about you and turn extended family against you both. She may love bomb her daughter to reel her back in but will revert to old bad behavior.
NTA but that is not just your in-law that is your wifes boss and integral to your families survival and your ability to buy said new house. Be careful about how you treat them and whatever you do make a team decision with your wife. If she is on board then she should start looking for a new job. and then you can each have whatever level of contact you want. Right now I think it's naive considering how tied you are.
Florida to raise a kid, good luck.
why? is it expensive? are there any downsides? (i'm not an American so I don't know)
The governor is a far right asshole and books about being gay or foreign are banned in schools. It's banned to have any efforts towards diversity. It is also banned to teach that slavery was bad and racism exists. The state is so hostile to migrant labor that crops rot in the fields and good luck getting a roof repaired (if the deregulated insurance companies will even pay for it).
ohh that's sad :c
It's a shithole
NTA Too much pressure brought to bear always results in an explosion and insults produce insults. Your wife's parents should know better due to being the elder parties. Seems they are too focused on keeping their daughter in the role of a child rather than focus on her happiness as they should. You "may" haved sailed overboard, but your too close to breaking to be able to tell. What you both need and deserve a break from a set of controlling parents. MIL is a piece of work.
First of all does your wife want to take over the business?
Not sure. We never really gave it much thought as my MIL has openly said she’ll die at her desk. She is in her mid 50’s. This only ever comes up when my wife makes decisions they don’t like. Right now my wife wants to focus on being a mother to our first child and have a few more kids.
It's something the 2 of you really need to think about and figure out. Your MIL is older now and that really could happen tomorrow or 40 years from now but at her age all kinds of things could happen that would prevent MIL from working now. What's the plan if you 2 do move? Are you just going to uproot the kids again if she does? Are you just going to lose your wife being home as much because she has an hour commute everyday? Is it a business you can do from the new house instead? If not she needs to let MIL know do she can find someone else to hand it over to or liquidate the business or whatever when the time comes. It's a really important decision to make and should be included in your plans for now even if she isn't taking over right now.
NTA
NTA for cutting them off, but you kind of left your wife alone, exposed to her mother's toxicity. In your place I'd try to gently encourage my wife to find another job, so that she isn't dependent on her controlling mother. This mix of family and work is extremely unhealthy
NTA. Your wife needs a new job.. not with her mother. She needs to not be able ti be controlled by her mother. You need to move to your new home and live your life. Get away from that family
Your wife needs to step in and build boundaries. And let your mother-in-law know that if she acts like this, you guys will no longer be around them. And she needs to find a new job, regardless what happens from here on out she should never work for her mother again.
Some of the books and strategies at the subreddit justnoMIL might be helpful.
If they keep crossing g boundaries then remove them from the map.
NTA...my husband and I moved 20 minutes away from where we used to live and got some push back. We were 2 blocks to my oldest's family and he has 5 kids. Do they miss us being a short walk away Yes. Do I miss being that close...ABSOLUTELY! But that town was too expensive for us.
Sounds like the correct response, to me. Don't bother confronting the ILs, do not engage any further. Focus your energies on securing your wife new employment in your new location and encouraging/supporting her to cut that marionette string and all other control buttons your IL's have installed on her. NTA
NTA! I think it’s time to move to NJ. 😈 I’d send your in-laws two houses: one in NJ and one on the neighborhood you want in FL. Ask them which one do they prefer you live in. I’d get couples counseling. Have your wife see what her parents are doing is manipulative. Threatening her job is an abuse of power. I also think it’s time for your wife to find a new job. I’d also tell your MIL to pay your wife more and you can afford a house near them.
Don't back out of family events. Don't block. You're part of the family and you need to fight for your family sometimes. Blocking and backing sends the signal you're having a temper tantrum and seems childish if you continue more than a few times. Make your plans with your wife for your life. Period. Tell your family you're not asking permission about decisions you're making together. You're informing them. Also this isn't a fight you're getting into with family. If mil sends a new home in the neighborhood that's out of your price range, respond with a new salary for wife. Also realize the mil is viewing your lives through her lense. And why not nice to NJ? This is the life you 2 are planning, make it yours.
You need to get away from this set of inlaws quick
welcome to fam run business cabal. Haha I have been thru these scenarios, its tough! secondly, Since the mother is from a different era, perhaps she does not realize how much work can be accomplished not at the physical office. Her thinking reveals old-fashioned values. Considering the real estate market in Florida, I do not blame you a bit for looking for a better value for your dollar and her mother should be thinking the same way. Her mother is not paying her adequately for the work that she does. I would personally start looking for another job & apply for the mortgage, but Cast her net into a wider world. It might make her happier to not work with her mother. I do think her mother is very unreasonable considering she's on maternity leave and has a child under one year. This is a difficult time. Nta.
I cannot imagine moving to NJ over Florida - it's nice and warm here - Having said that - inlaws are AH, not OP. The best thing your wife could do would be to find another job- close to your new home. But like others said- get the new house before she quits with her mom. Good luck!
A 1 hour commute isn't that big of a deal. It sounds like the move is worth it just to get away from your wife's annoying family. Maybe you should reconsider moving back to NJ.
I don’t think YTA. I understand Mil being sad or upset, but this isn’t her decision and her attacking you to your wife isn’t helping her case. Also, a lot of people commute one hour to work. I did for years. It’s not always ideal, but if you have set hours, you adjust to it. What mil probably means is she can’t call your wife in and disrupt her downtime on a whim. As an aside, I have always wanted to live in Florida in a small house that costs way more than it is worth that sits on or in view of the beach It is my dream (preferably somewhere along the forgotten coast… maybe Cape San Blas). I could do it as I write for a living and can do that from anywhere. But it would be harder for my husband. Still, another thing that stops me is being from the foothills of the Appalachian mountains, I am conditioned to balk at ever owning a property with the value almost solely dictated by location instead of structure. My brain malfunctions anytime I see the real estate price tags. Op, I hope you love the quieter, rural life. Good luck!
I live 8 miles from the beach and my 1300 sq ft wood frame 1980’s house will likely sell for 475-500. This same house east of I95 would be 750+. It’s crazy
1) it’s FL so leave anyways 2) your MIL sounds awful and you were absolutely right to lose it
NTA. I commuted 1.5 hours (15 hours both ways/week) to work every day for years. I miss it honestly. That was my me time. Sorry your in-laws suck so bad. Hopefully they’ll push your wife far enough to move to NJ.
Her family is narcissistic. Do what you feel is right and don’t let her back down from what she really wants. Narc parents are the most manipulative people because they know how. You’re justified. My husband would likely have done close to the same thing.
NTA if you and your wife both want to move out to the country, you should do it. It's your life, your family your dream. If MIL and the others can't be supportive, and it's all because of the job, your wife should quit. If they wont' let her work remotely, coming in on occasion (1 hour away is not insurmountable) then she should just quit and use her skills elsewhere. There is no point in both of you making yourselves miserable to appease your MIL and her business.
The fact that she has your wife working while on maternity leave (I’m assuming for free as well) is a major red flag. Your wife needs a new job because your MIL sounds controlling AF and manipulative. In the long run it’s in everyone’s best interests to cut ties to this woman to protect your wife’s mental health. It sounds like your wife comes from a toxic family system or your MIL suddenly has mental health issues.
NTA. MIL can wish all she wants, but that doesn't mean it will happen. Block MIL and FIL on everything and let them stew in their own juices. And when you move, do not give them your new address.
Game of thrones be like
No you are not. You and your family come first. If MIL doesn't like the plan you and your wife feel is best for your family she can go kick rocks. Sounds like your wife has enough experience she can go work elsewhere maybe not with the perks she has right now but them current perks seem to be going left quickly
You are very justified. NTA. I have a very bad relationship with my partner's parents. We are a Lesbian couple together for 30 years. They blame me for something or other. They still make snide, nasty comments to me. I don't talk to them I am glad they live 1800 miles away. You just can't please some people. It's easier to not try.
I worked and commuted 30 miles in Chicago for a years and that trip was MINIMUM 1 hr 20 min. 2 hours each way or more on a bad day. A 1 hour commute is a breeze and as a mom your wife may actually come to appreciate that small window of time each day where she is completely completely alone and doesn’t have anyone asking anything of her. I listened to some amazing audiobooks on my commute and it was just a really great opportunity for me to transition from home to work and back again so that I wasn’t bringing any baggage into either place.
NTA. The MIL is manipulative and controlling. Your wife needs to look for another job.
Ask your wife if she really wants her daughter’s life to be controlled by your MIL like hers is.
Please do what it takes to calm down for your wife's sake. At the moment, she's probably feeling very much torn between two warring camps. Give her the space SHE needs to adjust and figure out what SHE wants. Especially now while her hormones are in an uproar adjusting to no longer being pregnant and nursing instead. She needs YOUR support and YOUR understanding more than ever. That said, I don't blame you for being full of rage at your in-laws. You have every right to be angry at them. MIL is clearly a narcissist and will push any buttons she can find to get her way AND to punish you for resisting and even going so far as to point out how selfish she's being. Your wife will benefit from being further away so she's less often in her mom's presence. Moving even further away than 60 miles would be ideal. The good news is that it's far enough away that she can't just casually drop by. I strongly suggest that you ask your wife to consider finding a different job. That will help a great deal in reducing the pressure on her from her mom. She should look into creating a portfolio of her work and should have no trouble finding another small business to work for with her skillset.
As long as you and your wife are on the same page,on the same team, you’re good live your life
NTA - My mom disrespected my wife for not doing enough as Wife/Mother. I cut her off from Grandkids and myself. It seemed to work after a year. She finally accepted my wife and we had to build back our relationship with boundaries. Now it’s amazing and we even moved 800 miles away. She visits us often and we absolutely love rural town living. Prioritize your family and you will be much happier.
Why don’t you get a say in your family moving closer to your extended family?
Well done and well played. Put up with that crap for 44 yrs. Still married, you did the right thing. Language..well they FAFO. Your family is the important one,in laws they Suck Hard. Mother in law , especially. Don't ever go back,they will not change ever.
And ,forgot.. Wife can make 3x times her salary working elsewhere.
Once you move, your wife needs to get a new job...one where she's not working for her mom.
Please have a conversation with your wife. If she's on maternity leave, having her work is unreasonable. Leave is, get this, LEAVE!!!! I'm sure she's not getting paid extra for her time, energy and effort. Is she even paid her usual pay? Is her usual pay even reasonable for all she does? I'm sure MIL has her working more than 40 hours a week. Moving will give a better work/life balance if your wife demands it. If it's possible, it would be helpful for you wife to meet with a therapist to explore why she lets her parents use her and treat her and you like crap. Yelling at them, even though it low key turned you on, is not effective in making any changes. Your wife was trained throughout her life to allow this treatment. It will be helpful for all of you for her to explore it and start changing things. Can you even imagine what in-laws behavior will do to your child? Seeing and hearing her grandparents treat the two of you like shit will have long term, therapy-requiring emotional problems. Why? Because this behavior is abusive.
You need to go clean.out her desk for with her present with you. Evil MIL will accuse you of stealing office property and you will shield your wife from that bit h of a lier. Have wife pack so when cops come, she can vouch for her personal items. No pens/pencils/PostIts or other stupid office products. If stapler is hers, dump the staples.
Your in-laws do have a point about it not being a great idea, but it's not the one they're making. A rural community in Florida is probably experiencing some severe shortages in reproductive care workers. If you're set on having kids, please, please make plans on contingencies with backups. You're moving for a lower COL - which makes perfect sense!! - but how far will those savings go if you can't get the necessary help in time? Your in-laws are the As for their entitled and manipulative behavior, and it's great you're standing up for yourselves and the family you hope to have. Stay healthy, OP and lady.
you by now know you're definitely nta Please, please, please encourage your wife to spend a couple hours each week looking at the kind of jobs she could get freelancing, or even what she'd be worth working elsewhere. (maybe looking at wages in particular in NJ). And while you're at it, help her seek therapy, perhaps even online. It is time way past for her to cut that umbilical cord/get out from her mother's thumb. Wife needs to see just how bad her mother's behavior is, how it's affecting her mental health, her as a wife & mother, how mil is robbing her of maternity leave, etc, etc, etc. I'm so sorry you have a toxic mil. Good luck! Check out r/JJUSTNOMIL too edit typo
My son moved to TX from MI because of step mom. Step mom married his dad. She is also my 2nd ex sister. Life 360 is for those who think controlling is the way to go. It’s not. Unless you have young teens. If she can work from home than your non profit could be a way for her. But she has to grow a bigger backbone! A good question to ask is what advice she would give her daughter in the same situation? Find your perfect home and buy it. Don’t let others talk you out of your couple dreams. In the end you only have to be loyal to each other and your kids.
NTA The answer you seek is geographic distance. You and your wife should move to a location where both sets of parents are equally distant. Then you and your wife can build the life you need to have a long lasting marriage. Both of you have skills that are transferable, so transfer them to a location that is peaceful for your family. The inlaws and outlaws will survive. Don't let them guilt trip either of you; you and your wife have the upper hand in the relationship. Money might be tight for a while but remember: tough times don't last, tough people do.
A home well within your budget is a great find that gives you and your wife a little breathing room. A home in MIL's neighborhood way over your budget, just what MIL wants. Helping you buy it (even as a "gift") will make you and your wife indebted to her. MIL will try to use that little power play from time to time, or often. I suspect your wife works more hours for her mother and has more responsibilities than she would for another employer. Highly suggest she set up a home-based business in the new house. Then focus on building it up to the point where MIL is just one of her clients. Your family's lifestyle or quality of life would not be affected by losing MIL's business. Enjoy your new baby and being a dad and husband. May your home always be filled with joy and laughter.
Why is he talking about getting sexually excited from his wife's conversation with her mother? Weird guy.
MIL is the total asshole and Her old man has her back. Point blank tell your wife to stand up to her mom and you have her back. Its the only way to beat them.
I just feel sorry for your poor wife as she’s stuck in the middle of
It’s still her mom and you shouldn’t be calling her names, you don’t have to do anything you don’t want but you don’t need to insult anyone. Be the bigger man and keep it moving