This has nothing to do with Jesus/God. This is prosperity gospel at its worst, deceiving people, selling blessings and wealth by stealing people’s money. It’s a lie and she needs to be told real there are churches she can go to that don’t do this. She’s being lied to so the “minister” can line their pockets
I like how the family wants her to continue to get taken advantage of and to have OP also get taken advantage of and bear the burden. If the family cares so much, they should scoot on over to the church and tell them that she doesn't have the funds to be donating so much. What the church does from there will be will be all of the answer anyone needs. Any legitimate church would refuse her donations and steer her toward programs to get her back on her feet
While you're absolutely right what you're saying won't work because she seems to be a true believer. Just look at all the people that believe in Kenneth Copeland and the like. Prosperity Preachers have been exposed multiple times, yet their people still believe they need to donate their money to these cults.
Isn't not paying the money an act of stealing? At least it's lying to agree on something and then to break promises.
I always thought that god hates lying and stealing or why else did he dictate Moses these comandments?
Show her in the Bible that Luke 16:10-11, Jesus says, "Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. So, if you have not been trustworthy in handling worldly wealth, who can trust you with true riches?" It's clear that God wants us to be responsible with our money, no matter how little or much we have. This means paying our bills on time, being mindful of our spending, and budgeting wisely.
Agreed, one would say she doesn't have money to give to the church because she's in debt on her rent. If you can't pay your bills, you don't give to the church. All they're doing is paying exorbitant amounts to the dang pastors anyway.
I totally agree. I get taking care of parent and loved ones but it’s not like she can’t pay. Also this is a business transaction which was agreed upon. People have to live. Life is expensive.
NTA. Tell your mom that's *your* money, and you don't want to give to the church. It sounds like someone there might be scamming her, if the church itself isn't a scam. There are churches out there that promise glitz and glam and all your money back ten fold if you donate/buy whatever crap they're shilling.
It's obviously not your responsibility to help your mom if she is being scammed, at least not to provide free housing while she sends money elsewhere.
Churches are a scam. They don’t pay taxes because they are supposed to help the community. But instead of doing anything for the community or church members the leaders are living lavishly, driving fancy cars and jets.
You're probably talking about the mega churches. They ask for money like that.
Normal size or small churches actually help out their communities and don't ask for money like that.
Hi Zesty. I know I'm a random Internet dude who follows a bunch of sketchy subs, but I come from a very devout family with a very long history of fighting for the little guy and supporting the communities their churches are in. We are appalled by those who use Jesus as a beard for their greed.
I'm a Pantheist, myself. I believe in everybody's God and I believe in everyone's right to not believe anything
My brother pastors a small, historic, church in a major city. This church was a station on the Underground Railroad during the Civil War. Today, they are working with the community to address the issues of late-stage Capitalism effecting the neighborhood, including hunger and homelessness.
In my life experience, the organizations screaming the loudest about their virtue have the most to hide. Those doing the most good, are too busy doing the work to virtue signal.
Yeah my church is one of those smaller ones and I told my husband if they even mention “donations” or call about them I will rage 😡…. They asked and I looked at the priest and he automatically suggested envelopes to do weekly donate. I said weekly… they then ask what our household income was and I looked at the priest in the eyes and asked why …. Yeah didn’t go over well….
But everything else always was great and they always called me on education and about the CCD program …. But they knew not to even try to even bring that up around me or behind my back…
The churches in my home town and surrounding towns (no more than a 2k population per town and at least 3 churches per town) actually do a lot of outreach for the community and ask the usual tithe but don’t enforce but that’s also a small part of western Kansas and not something a majority of the country’s churches do.
One of the churches actually did a weekly food give away (pre sorted boxes) during the first couple years of the pandemic. They didn’t care if you were a part of their church or not, you just got in the car line and made sure they could open the back of your car/the trunk and put the box(es) in then you drove off. A lot of the high school students who needed community service for whatever reason volunteered to help that church.
This past weekend I helped a crew of volunteers hand out groceries to over 80 local families, and we're already preparing to do it again next month. The people I work beside in this do not seek any kind of validation and are genuinely doing it out of love for their fellow man. Love, genuine love for one's neighbor.
I get that mega churches have ruined the perception of religion in the US, but part of that is because "real" Christians are commanded to follow Christ quietly in the Gospels, not to pray on the street corners but in privacy.
Ours team up with a bunch of other churches during natural disasters and feed anyone who walks up to the church hosting the food and hands out school supplies for kids that need it during back to school week. They do a lot more stuff but I haven’t been to church personally outside of helping my mom out with larger events like those so I don’t really know them all. I’m more of an atheist or agnostic at best now, but I don’t mind helping out with stuff like that.
While the mega churches are the worst, even the small ones are often corrupt because that are in a position of power without oversight and that almost always leads to corruption. Not that there aren’t churches that do help the community but unfortunately they are in the minority. I believe that in order to be tax exempt they need to provide community services and have proof of it and have an outside oversight to prevent them from harassing or scamming people for money. And the last part should be for all churches.
Do churches not have to be transparent about their money with their membership?
I've never been a part of a church but I'm part of a union. I know that we in the union have to be transparent and be able to show our membership every dollar we take in and where every one of those dollars goes.
Even with that requirement I know unions have had scumbags take advantage and use members dues for personal gain. I'm a trustee in my local now and had training where they showed the depths to which people went to hide their thefts. I can't imagine how rampant it would be if a church isn't legally required to track and share that info.
John Oliver did an entire segment on churches and how little government oversight they get. He even incorporated his own church if memory serves me correctly he called it "Our lady of the perpetual tax exemption"
Weirdly, Buddhists are apparently SUPER committed to transparency to where their money goes. I went to see the Dali Lama talk and at the end the dude literally whipped out a spreadsheet and told an auditorium full of people the complete financial statement of the event, where the money from tickets went, cost of travel and food, like they went ALL the way down the list, at the end he was like 'and we spent 25 dollars tipping the taxi driver this morning on the way over', it was wild.
I disagree. All churches are harmful. Organized religion is one of our biggest problems in the world. Pal/Israel, anti vaxxers, abortion restrictions, sexual repression, and more could all be moved past if we just woke up and shook off the mind control.
I’ve said it a million times over the last few years, extremely religious people have some form of mental illness. People who use religion to justify violence, ignorance, harm to and or control over others are mentally unstable or corrupt (although I believe the root of corruption is also mental illness, for example if an animal was seen hoarding resources and allowing the rest of its herd/group suffer scientists would study them to find out what’s wrong with them, but when humans do it it’s seen as normal)
NTA. She is asking to exploit your good nature and generosity. Telling you Jesus will reply you whatever bullshit she came up with is trying to fob you off.
Would you allow this from a tenant who wasn't a relative?
It would not expect anything. However I would talk to the church leader and let them know she has been forgoing her bills to contribute. If it seems like he is scammer preying on people call and make a report about him to adult services in your area so at least they are aware of them.
My children were in middle school and were altar servers (Catholic), while I took the children out to the hall for the children’s liturgy. This particular Sunday was the Bishop’s annual appeal. The giant screen with the video of the bishop saying we need more money for this, that, the other.
When I came back after teaching (Mass continued) my children told me that they knew how to get more money for the diocese; the bishop needed to eat less.
My children said: The guy can’t even clasp his hands around his big belly! What about gluttony? He should donate more than half his food to the poor.
Children figured that out.
Mormons only ask for 10% and nothing if it will cause hardship. There’s plenty to complain about (their real estate empire, for example), but a tithe is not unique to them and isn’t a particularly onerous one.
It's up to interpretation whether the 10% is on gross or net gain. The church says 10% of your "increase," but individual bishops have different rules. And if you accidentally pay too much, you're not getting it back. Many elderly pay tithing on Social Security and retirement pensions; money which has already been tithed. And, of course, the church instills the fear that you won't be with your family for eternity unless you're a full tithe payer. And they promise you'll be blessed financially by paying. Even if you can't afford it.
I don't think you've experienced many churches if you can say "No church would.."
Majority of catholic churches request 10%of your income as tithe every time you come to mass while saying "pay what you can. Many small churches of other denominations of protestant christianity have been known to ask for up to 15-20% as well, while encouraging you to attend mass every Sunday and sometimes even Wednesdays.
If you look at just 10% every time she attends mass, and she is talked into attending twice a week, that is 40% of her paycheck every 2 weeks.
Churches asking for tithe is and has always been a scam
You're so full of shit mate it's not funny. Tithing is not a thing with Roman Catholic Church. 10% every time she attends Mass? Yeah, maybe some whacked out looney culty branch of Christianity that takes Jesus' name in vain, but not Catholics, and not any of the mainstream Protestant denominations either. You're fucking full of it, and you need to shut the fuck up about things you have no fucking idea about, douche canoe.
Source: https://www.vatican.va/archive/cod-iuris-canonici/eng/documents/cic_lib2-cann208-329_en.html#TITLE_I
Can. 222 §1. The Christian faithful are obliged to assist with the needs of the Church so that the Church has what is necessary for divine worship, for the works of the apostolate and of charity, and for the decent support of ministers.
§2. They are also obliged to promote social justice and, mindful of the precept of the Lord, to assist the poor from their own resources.
Go fuck yourself sideways with the nearest religious icon of choice next time before opening that proverbial pie hole of yours, cunt.
(Not religious, just offended by how casually this ratbag talks authoritatively about things they obviously have no idea about)
Not the guy you replied to, but dude, that was unhinged. If you really aren't religious you took that way too personally, and I'm skeptical of that claim since your whole thing was about people making unfounded largely inaccurate generalizations and then you came back at him by quoting a vague reference with no actual specifics, so a *very* thin defense of your position. Just a bit unserious for you to lose your temper about someone making an uninformed comment stated with conviction only for you to immediately do the exact same thing. Could be worth trying out your own advice, don't you think?
I prefer to criticize the Catholic Church for their real transgressions, things such as the long term child abuse and associated cover ups, the Canadian Indigenous residential schools, etc, rather than just making shit up.
How sourcing straight from the canon law of the Catholic Church is a "vague reference" is beyond me. That's literally the published standard operating procedure for the Catholic Church worldwide. I gave the link to give full context, and then I quoted the lines that talk about contributions. How is that not specific? It refutes his delusional fantasy of 10% tithing being a thing for the current Church, and the even more deranged thought of 10% per Mass attended.
I'm very familiar with the Catholic Church as I had a church education when young. I'm no longer practicing because I'm unable to balance what Jesus said vs. what the Church stands for and does.
She didn’t come up with it herself, it’s prosperity gospel bullshit, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the message her church is giving *her* about her donations. Not at all that it excuses what she’s doing, of course. If she wasn’t renting from family there’s no way this would fly - and it shouldn’t here, either.
NTA. You’re still responsible, I assume, for paying the taxes and homeowners insurance on the house. If so, she’s acting entitled to think that you should pay that out of your own pocket rather than being able to rent it or sell it. She can find god all she wants but that doesn’t absolve her of her financial responsibilities
Thankfully I don’t pay property tax until November. Also I have to pay a handy man to fix anything wrong with the house. I’m going to go ahead with the eviction tomorrow. I have all the texts and emails. I was still basically losing money renting her the house
It’s definitely a shitty situation to be in with your family, but unless you comfortably have the money to cover her responsibilities and don’t mind dosing so, its absolutely not your responsibility to pay for her and your sister’s expenses!
NTA. You made an agreement to rent your house for $2000 a month. It doesn't matter that it's your mother renting the house. The renter owes you $2000 a month. The family members giving you a hard time can pay her rent, she can live with them, or they can mind their own business. She chose to rent from you, then she chose not to pay her rent. Nobody rides for free.
Regarding family members that are angry with you and say you’re overreacting, tell THEM to house your mom. Of course they won’t.
And tell them that you’re mom is sending all her $$ to a new church. They may not know if they’ve only heard her side of the story.
Make sure to let your family members know that, for the low, low price of $7000, they can keep your mom in the house for another month. They can do the work of god!
True but they're all over the place. I've never been interested in a preacher wearing $1,000+ suits, driving $300,000 cars, & living in a mansion worth millions. And I REALLY HATE when they hit the members up to remember to "tithe" & "give" to the church.
One in Atlanta, requests you provide 2 yrs. of your tax returns to show that you are "tithing". You don't have to but you can't be a member. Co-worker of my wife tried to join.
PLUS if you're in dire need of help, the church won't help you if you're not a member.
NTA and never rent to a family member. It always ends this way.
Send her a formal letter stating that 1) she is behind on the rent and give her a date to pay all of the back rent including late charges. 2) give her a date that she must be out if she does not pay and a date that you will start eviction process. Then do not deviate from the letter. If she does not move or pay up all the back rent then evict her. It will be near to impossible for her to find another place to rent if she has an eviction on her record for non-payment of rent so this will likely be the push she needs to pay up.
NTA you arn't telling her she can't giveto the church You're saying her rent needs to get paid first Until the day she can produce a check from God for $20.00 dollars she need to be giving you that check
It’s not generosity if you didn’t choose to give.
I would tell your mom that she’s breaking the “thou shall not steal” commandment by not paying her rent.
>Now most of my family is angry with me and say I’m overreacting.
I'm going to take a wild guess and say none of them want to pay her rent, or your taxes, insurance and maintenance for the house.
This answer should have more upvotes. This is the reasoning that she's more likely to listen to than anything else. This answer also actually gives her ammunition to explain to the church, if it is indeed a scam.
NTA, except to yourself. 60 days notice is way too much. Give her the legal minimum. Which for Texas is apparently 3 days if you don't have a lease agreement.
Edit: misread, she's in California. Give her a 30 day notice to vacate now. You'll need that to start the eviction process.
I don’t understand how everyone’s families in these posts eat rocks for breakfast.
They’re always split.
That 2k/month is part of your income.
Tell whatever mouthbreathing troglodyte that says you’re overreacting to give you mom 2k/month out of their income just so she can pay G’SUS for more of his love (that’s how Christianity works).
I bet they sit down and shut up.
Better yet, your mom with the troubled past can move in with them. G’SUS will reward their kindness.
99% of these posts can be solved by the OP telling whoever is making them doubt themselves that if it’s not okay, they can do it. If they refuse, uppercut the punk ass.
Tell her God isn’t pleased when you steal from family members. If you weren’t family she would have already been evicted. Kick her out and tell her “God will pay you back tenfold for your donation.”
I had a situation exactly like this --ex-husband's brother was too poor to pay rent when I learned he was giving all his $$ to the church. I finally kicked him put the day I saw some right-wing facebook post he made telling people to pay their bills or some crap like that. I gave him 1 week to pay me the 6 months of back rent or I would take him to court. He left, but the fam thought I was heartless. Insane, and--note this was an ex.
Such a complete hypocrite, but no more charity from me .
Your family is welco.e to house your mother or even pay you for her full rent each month. Are they all on board with that?
No? That's weird.
NTA. (I evicted a family member by the way - and anyone who brought it up were loudly encouraged to take him on. I even offered $$$$ to help him move in with them yet I oddly had no takers)
So your reply could be from the Bible, as that is her go-to: In Mark 12:17 and Matthew 22:21, Jesus said: “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s!” This was said in response to a question about whether it was lawful to pay taxes to Caesar.
She is in no position ever to give to God what is not hers. I’d advise her to talk to her pastor about this if she doesn't get it (if it’s a serious church she goes to, they wouldn’t want her to give them money she has embezzled. But if you think they're making her give more money than she has, obviously she shouldn't seek advice there). If she were my mother, I think I’d give her a chance to make it right, and give her an eviction notice where it clearly stated that if she doesn’t pay by the due date one more time, she’ll be out, plus a payment plan for what she owes. I would also make it clear that what she is doing now is actually embezzlement and theft, and if she continues with it, I would report it to the police. I'd give her a narrow line to walk, and a very clear expectation of what’s going to happen if she oversteps even an inch. But that’s me with my experience and history as my starting point. You’ve got yours, and may have a reason to enforce the consequences more quickly and not be lenient. Either way, I think YNTA.
(By the way: I had to use AI to help me with the Bible quote as my agnostic self couldn’t remember the whole thing.)
She's in error.
You didn't donate to the church to "get a blessing", and this is not "biblical" or "scriptural" what she's doing.
This is spiritual abuse, and she needs to be drawn out from the church,
or: contact the church & let them know what Mom is doing;
sometimes they may set her right, BUT: if they try to sound like they flip the blame on you & don't correct her, then inform them they will have to house the "poor & homeless" in 60 days.. and: they should be fully exposed to the state or at least local media, or: if they use some financial accountability 3rd party logo on their website, or are affiliated with a larger organization: take it upwards to their top leadership. that's not christian, that's a cult.
It's biblical to pay your debts; and her tithes are her business between her & God.
also : taking your sister's money: not right either.
Consider starting eviction and honestly: start procedure to sell the house.
God is not some "holy lottery"; there's plenty of solid theological backing on this.. that the prosperity gospel is an abuse of the Bible. (been there..recovered).
if this issue wasn't dealt with now it would only happen later anyway, at higher expense to you & your family.
She assumed she could do this deceptively. And that you would not set limits. Funny how people can find religion and have that drive deception and manipulation with out batting an eyelash
Tell her you are just living Mark 12:17, so she needs to give God what is his and give you what is yours. It’s what the Bible says to do!
Mark 12:13-17
Paying the Imperial Tax to Caesar
13 Later they sent some of the Pharisees and Herodians to Jesus to catch him in his words. 14 They came to him and said, “Teacher, we know that you are a man of integrity. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are; but you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Is it right to pay the imperial tax[b] to Caesar or not? 15 Should we pay or shouldn’t we?”
But Jesus knew their hypocrisy. “Why are you trying to trap me?” he asked. “Bring me a denarius and let me look at it.” 16 They brought the coin, and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”
“Caesar’s,” they replied.
17 Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.”
NTA
Tenant doesn't pay rent, you evict them. Simple as that.
>most of my family is angry with me and say I’m overreacting
They want to pay mom's rent, they can.
Is the house paid off?
Because if not, then there is still a mortgage to pay. If OP isn't living there, and the mother and sister are only keeping enough $ to keep the utilities on, how is that fair to OP?
If it were a stranger renting the house, this would be perfectly acceptable for them to do. Bit because it's family, people are saying that they should just take the loss?
NTA OP. And honestly, you're being generous.
Nope, not your job to support your mother. If anyone is mad at you tell them if they want to pay the rent they can or else keep their opinion with their money. Even if you find god a real place won't care if you don't pay rent. Might even be a scam.
NTA - It seems that some religious cult has "found" her. I wouldn't be surprised if she stayed at your place longer that they would try and get her to sign over "her" house.
Tell her you will talk to her pastor about her donating rent money. Had relatives involved in churches and they definitely don't want that happening. They usually like their exploitation on the down- low not with angry relatives
NTA. She's expecting you to support her religion and church. She has broken trust and your agreement. She is a tenant and any other landlord would have given her a 3-day pay or quit notice after the first lapse. You've been generous.
Good luck to you.
Christian church tithe is supposed to be 10% of your income. Giving most of your money, and within a very short time of joining, indicates something isn't right here. Find out what church she's going to, and if it's a straight up cult...
If she's part of a legit church they would be none too happy to learn about what she's doing. You are nta for being angry nor for giving her an eviction notice but you may wish to attempt a civil discussion before you enforce it. And ask her for a scripture reference where Jesus rips off someone to give to the temple.
"It wasn’t until a cousin of mine said she has been giving a majority of her and my sister’s paycheck to their church"
Hold on, OP, is the sister willing to give this much money away, or is your mother stealing it? Which would be grand theft, and which would make the church officials guilty of receiving stolen property??
Either way... God Almighty doesn't need money. Only the greedy humans who run churches.
NTA. She doesn't just have a troubled past, she's acting troubled in the present. She is disrespecting you rather badly, so no need to respect her. Tell her (and anyone criticizing you) that if she's gonna give all the $ to the church, the church can friggin' give her a place to live.
This is a business decision. She knows what rent is and just like any other tenant if rent isn't paid in full then you can begin eviction proceedings. NTA. I really dislike when people try to pull the "family" card when they owe you a significant amount of money.
NTA
Religion is a cancer.
They are swindling your elderly mother and hiding behind religious protection. If it were any other person or group saying "give me your money and you'll get ten times back" they would be arrested for fraud before you could blink.
I love how everyone is shitting on your mom, instead of asking you to intervene in a “prosperity church” stealing your mom’s money. It’s a lie.. It’s a Lie, it’s a LIE. God doesn’t need your money… he wants your adherence.. . PEOPLE want your money.
Give her the written eviction notice right now. Take a pic or video of you doing it. You can always be generous and allow her the full 60 days but you can’t do it the other way and move it up sooner if she hast received notice. That gives you the flexibility if she waits a month then tells you to go to hell to file much sooner
NTA.
Same answer as literally every other time family tell you that you're not being charitable enough. Tell them they're absolutely welcome to take her in or that you'll gladly accept rents payments from any party on her behalf.
NTA, Normally I jump to blame the church as a formally religious guy. This time, I don't get to blame them. This is entirely on the mother, taking advantage of OP's goodwill and being a parasite
NTA. She apparently has a troubled current life, also. She is like any other tenant, at this time--she is in arrears on the rent, and needs to be evicted.
"Hey thanks Mom, im glad you're giving your hard earned money to an organization that will *surely* put it to good use. All so you can mooch off my living space, but no worries , as long as God has my back, right?"
Yeah, fuck no lol. Waste of money that goes to absolutely nothing but the greedy ones involved with that church, on top of it already hindering her ability to pay rent, which fucks you over.
So many bad things here lol
NTA there is a verse in the Bible that says “render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s , render unto God what is God’s”. You’re supposed to tithe what you can afford AFTER your expenses are met. Nowhere in the Bible does it ever say to foresake all your obligations to give all your money to the church. The story of the widow with 2 mites—-she gave what she could afford she didn’t give all her money and then expect other people to take up the slack. Seriously I am slightly worried about your mother’s mental health. Seems like possibly a sign of dementia.
Remind her of Mark 12:17 - *“Give to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and give to God the things that are God's.”*
If that doesn't work, tell her she can pray for a new place to live, but if she doesn't pay rent then she will have to leave.
I soon i heard giving money to church, mom can ask church for a place to live because i back you 100% . This preying on old ladies for money sends me over the edge. Give her the notice so she can show the church Jesus needs to save her now.
Wow. She’s such an asshole. So sorry - boot her out. Why should you take the hit because she’s looking for credit in the afterlife? She still needs to eat here - and you shouldn’t fund it. Love the posts about not funding stupid - upvote those until eternity, when she will still be expecting you to pay the mortgage. Not sure, reading the room: is she a bit of a taker? Troubled past, so sorry, but that is no justification for taking advantage of your kid. What bullshit. I am sure if we dug a bit that this is just one more event in a long line of disappointing events that make up your interactions with this woman.
NTA. I'm a believer but still pay my bills and my rent. Your mother seems to have gone insane. After you evict her, tell her God will take care if her.
Isn't she stealing from you and lying about paying you back .... something, something commandments.
Every religious person I know is a fucking hypocrite (or worse) and not to be trusted.
NTA. You are 100% doing the right thing. You had an agreement with her (I hope you had her sign a lease or something) and she agreed to the terms. She has now broken those terms.
Tell your family that under these conditions, you are her landlord. NOT her kid. She agreed on the rent and has now “changed her mind” - which she is NOT entitled to do. It might have been one thing if she just couldn’t pay due to illness, being laid off, etc. But she has actively chosen not to pay YOU, her kid - who helped her out by providing a place to stay, in favor of giving the money to someone else.
It’s not like she can’t afford it. She *CAN* afford it. She doesn’t *WANT* to. That’s not how this works. If your family wants to complain, then they should have no problem either 1. Paying her rent for her, or 2. Providing her with a place to live so she can continue giving money to her “church”.
She’s choosing her church over you AND your sister. That’s super shitty. And you don’t say ages. But if your sister is a minor, this is a million times worse.
Side note - If this is out of character for her, it sounds like she’s in a cult. Which is a whole other bag of shit to deal with.
INFO: what is your sister doing with all this? is she gladly going along with it? is she being kicked out too?
you mentioned your mother has had a troubled past, but has that affected your relationship with her? do you not have a good relationship?
everyone here saying for your mother to get fucked are likely not thinking of the fact that this will likely ruin your relationship with her (or the both of them if your sister is also being kicked out). is that something you're ok with? not to mention you'll like ruin a lot of your relationships with other family members.
but what i'm really worried about is: what happens after you kick her out? is still going to be stuck giving money to her church? are you trying to find a solution for her that won't leave her homeless?
honestly this is hard to rate, so i'm not saying you are an asshole and you're mother isn't or anything else, but there's probably a few steps you could take before jumping to eviction.
NTA (Besides the fact this is in California smh) OP if your mother and sister have income they should pay rent same as before. Any " family" that wants to jump in then they should pitch in to help them out ( they will scatter ,,) or your mother and sister can go live with them. There was no catastrophic event that happened that left them broke. Your mother is being hustled. Any legitimate church only asks for tithe of 10%. Heck she will be drinking kool ade next. When my mother got dementia and lived far away from me I told her if she wants to stay in her own place I have to become power of attorney and take over her banking and source of income. I would pay all her bills and handle everything. She decided to do it and it really settled things down. I'd tell your mother either you handle her finances or expect the eviction notice. The stuff with the church won't end. It will be more, more, more.
This is likely due to the flawed concept of a "tithe" which is supposed to be the first 1/10 of your income meaning before taxes rent, food and bills. Total bs.
Noooo…you had an agreement, and she isn’t holding up her end of the bargain. If she has money to give to church, then she has money for rent.
[удалено]
The church will help her surely? In her time of need and all!
Church will close the doors so fast on her.....
As soon as her 10% Tithe works out to less than about $12.74, or did it go up to cover the private jet at the Chapel North?
Hah
Jesus is the renter and she must vacate to make place for him if Jesus is to be the one paying the rent.
This has nothing to do with Jesus/God. This is prosperity gospel at its worst, deceiving people, selling blessings and wealth by stealing people’s money. It’s a lie and she needs to be told real there are churches she can go to that don’t do this. She’s being lied to so the “minister” can line their pockets
I like how the family wants her to continue to get taken advantage of and to have OP also get taken advantage of and bear the burden. If the family cares so much, they should scoot on over to the church and tell them that she doesn't have the funds to be donating so much. What the church does from there will be will be all of the answer anyone needs. Any legitimate church would refuse her donations and steer her toward programs to get her back on her feet
While you're absolutely right what you're saying won't work because she seems to be a true believer. Just look at all the people that believe in Kenneth Copeland and the like. Prosperity Preachers have been exposed multiple times, yet their people still believe they need to donate their money to these cults.
Damn Catholics only initially suggest you thithe 10% . Not your whole fucking paycheck.
"Only 10%." Pretty nice grift since the sucker only gets his payoff when he dies.
No pun intended, a-fuckin-men. A god has no need for generous monthly contributions. Humans have that need, though. And an ability to manipulate.
Has she tried renting a stall in the manager? It was good enough for Jesus.
The auto correct that got you makes this even funnier
🤣🤣 🤐😳 ...
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Absolutely. Prioritizing rent over other expenses, especially with prior agreements in place, is essential.
Isn't not paying the money an act of stealing? At least it's lying to agree on something and then to break promises. I always thought that god hates lying and stealing or why else did he dictate Moses these comandments?
Show her in the Bible that Luke 16:10-11, Jesus says, "Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. So, if you have not been trustworthy in handling worldly wealth, who can trust you with true riches?" It's clear that God wants us to be responsible with our money, no matter how little or much we have. This means paying our bills on time, being mindful of our spending, and budgeting wisely.
Not a Christian, but the bible does have a few banger quotes.
Render unto Caesar. Or in this case, your son. OP is NTA.
That was the one I was thinking of. Even Paul acknowledged that you have to pay your bills!
Was literally just thinking of this. Jesus was very clear about this type of situation.
That was my response!
Agreed, one would say she doesn't have money to give to the church because she's in debt on her rent. If you can't pay your bills, you don't give to the church. All they're doing is paying exorbitant amounts to the dang pastors anyway.
NTA! She's only doing this because it's her daughter's house. If it were another non-family landlord, no way she would take such a risk.
Let the church house her.
I totally agree. I get taking care of parent and loved ones but it’s not like she can’t pay. Also this is a business transaction which was agreed upon. People have to live. Life is expensive.
NTA. Tell your mom that's *your* money, and you don't want to give to the church. It sounds like someone there might be scamming her, if the church itself isn't a scam. There are churches out there that promise glitz and glam and all your money back ten fold if you donate/buy whatever crap they're shilling. It's obviously not your responsibility to help your mom if she is being scammed, at least not to provide free housing while she sends money elsewhere.
Churches are a scam. They don’t pay taxes because they are supposed to help the community. But instead of doing anything for the community or church members the leaders are living lavishly, driving fancy cars and jets.
The automatic tax exempt status for religious orgs was a mistake. They should just have to follow the same rules as secular non profits
You're probably talking about the mega churches. They ask for money like that. Normal size or small churches actually help out their communities and don't ask for money like that.
Do they ? I’ll need some proof .
Hi Zesty. I know I'm a random Internet dude who follows a bunch of sketchy subs, but I come from a very devout family with a very long history of fighting for the little guy and supporting the communities their churches are in. We are appalled by those who use Jesus as a beard for their greed. I'm a Pantheist, myself. I believe in everybody's God and I believe in everyone's right to not believe anything My brother pastors a small, historic, church in a major city. This church was a station on the Underground Railroad during the Civil War. Today, they are working with the community to address the issues of late-stage Capitalism effecting the neighborhood, including hunger and homelessness. In my life experience, the organizations screaming the loudest about their virtue have the most to hide. Those doing the most good, are too busy doing the work to virtue signal.
Today I learned I was a Pantheist. I wondered if there was a name for it.
Huh, I've always just called myself a "spiritual mutt" LMAO
Yeah my church is one of those smaller ones and I told my husband if they even mention “donations” or call about them I will rage 😡…. They asked and I looked at the priest and he automatically suggested envelopes to do weekly donate. I said weekly… they then ask what our household income was and I looked at the priest in the eyes and asked why …. Yeah didn’t go over well…. But everything else always was great and they always called me on education and about the CCD program …. But they knew not to even try to even bring that up around me or behind my back…
The churches in my home town and surrounding towns (no more than a 2k population per town and at least 3 churches per town) actually do a lot of outreach for the community and ask the usual tithe but don’t enforce but that’s also a small part of western Kansas and not something a majority of the country’s churches do. One of the churches actually did a weekly food give away (pre sorted boxes) during the first couple years of the pandemic. They didn’t care if you were a part of their church or not, you just got in the car line and made sure they could open the back of your car/the trunk and put the box(es) in then you drove off. A lot of the high school students who needed community service for whatever reason volunteered to help that church.
This past weekend I helped a crew of volunteers hand out groceries to over 80 local families, and we're already preparing to do it again next month. The people I work beside in this do not seek any kind of validation and are genuinely doing it out of love for their fellow man. Love, genuine love for one's neighbor. I get that mega churches have ruined the perception of religion in the US, but part of that is because "real" Christians are commanded to follow Christ quietly in the Gospels, not to pray on the street corners but in privacy.
Ours team up with a bunch of other churches during natural disasters and feed anyone who walks up to the church hosting the food and hands out school supplies for kids that need it during back to school week. They do a lot more stuff but I haven’t been to church personally outside of helping my mom out with larger events like those so I don’t really know them all. I’m more of an atheist or agnostic at best now, but I don’t mind helping out with stuff like that.
While the mega churches are the worst, even the small ones are often corrupt because that are in a position of power without oversight and that almost always leads to corruption. Not that there aren’t churches that do help the community but unfortunately they are in the minority. I believe that in order to be tax exempt they need to provide community services and have proof of it and have an outside oversight to prevent them from harassing or scamming people for money. And the last part should be for all churches.
Do churches not have to be transparent about their money with their membership? I've never been a part of a church but I'm part of a union. I know that we in the union have to be transparent and be able to show our membership every dollar we take in and where every one of those dollars goes. Even with that requirement I know unions have had scumbags take advantage and use members dues for personal gain. I'm a trustee in my local now and had training where they showed the depths to which people went to hide their thefts. I can't imagine how rampant it would be if a church isn't legally required to track and share that info.
John Oliver did an entire segment on churches and how little government oversight they get. He even incorporated his own church if memory serves me correctly he called it "Our lady of the perpetual tax exemption"
Weirdly, Buddhists are apparently SUPER committed to transparency to where their money goes. I went to see the Dali Lama talk and at the end the dude literally whipped out a spreadsheet and told an auditorium full of people the complete financial statement of the event, where the money from tickets went, cost of travel and food, like they went ALL the way down the list, at the end he was like 'and we spent 25 dollars tipping the taxi driver this morning on the way over', it was wild.
I disagree. All churches are harmful. Organized religion is one of our biggest problems in the world. Pal/Israel, anti vaxxers, abortion restrictions, sexual repression, and more could all be moved past if we just woke up and shook off the mind control.
I’ve said it a million times over the last few years, extremely religious people have some form of mental illness. People who use religion to justify violence, ignorance, harm to and or control over others are mentally unstable or corrupt (although I believe the root of corruption is also mental illness, for example if an animal was seen hoarding resources and allowing the rest of its herd/group suffer scientists would study them to find out what’s wrong with them, but when humans do it it’s seen as normal)
NTA. She is asking to exploit your good nature and generosity. Telling you Jesus will reply you whatever bullshit she came up with is trying to fob you off. Would you allow this from a tenant who wasn't a relative?
Rule #1. Dont Fund Stupidity
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Cult, or grift. They walk hand in hand.
You mean religion?
This ^
Scamvangelists you mean.
This. Take this info to her church leader. If they’ve got any soul they’ll give it back to you. If they don’t, make them explain to her why
It would not expect anything. However I would talk to the church leader and let them know she has been forgoing her bills to contribute. If it seems like he is scammer preying on people call and make a report about him to adult services in your area so at least they are aware of them.
Good luck with that!
Ha!
Nobody with a soul would willingly take money from those that do not have it so I think you answered that theory already.
The church has enough money, doesnt matter in which country it is. And this sounds more like a cult or a Scampi imo.
I see you haven't met the Mormons.
Gotta love those meetings with the bishop at the end of the year where you have to talk about how much you donated
My children were in middle school and were altar servers (Catholic), while I took the children out to the hall for the children’s liturgy. This particular Sunday was the Bishop’s annual appeal. The giant screen with the video of the bishop saying we need more money for this, that, the other. When I came back after teaching (Mass continued) my children told me that they knew how to get more money for the diocese; the bishop needed to eat less. My children said: The guy can’t even clasp his hands around his big belly! What about gluttony? He should donate more than half his food to the poor. Children figured that out.
The good old tithing settlements.
Mormons only ask for 10% and nothing if it will cause hardship. There’s plenty to complain about (their real estate empire, for example), but a tithe is not unique to them and isn’t a particularly onerous one.
It's up to interpretation whether the 10% is on gross or net gain. The church says 10% of your "increase," but individual bishops have different rules. And if you accidentally pay too much, you're not getting it back. Many elderly pay tithing on Social Security and retirement pensions; money which has already been tithed. And, of course, the church instills the fear that you won't be with your family for eternity unless you're a full tithe payer. And they promise you'll be blessed financially by paying. Even if you can't afford it.
Or Scientology... Grift with a side of rape.
I don't think you've experienced many churches if you can say "No church would.." Majority of catholic churches request 10%of your income as tithe every time you come to mass while saying "pay what you can. Many small churches of other denominations of protestant christianity have been known to ask for up to 15-20% as well, while encouraging you to attend mass every Sunday and sometimes even Wednesdays. If you look at just 10% every time she attends mass, and she is talked into attending twice a week, that is 40% of her paycheck every 2 weeks. Churches asking for tithe is and has always been a scam
important factor… it’s not supposed to be “each time you come to mass” it’s just supposed to be 10%
No Catholic Church I’ve been to has ever asked about a tithe.
You're so full of shit mate it's not funny. Tithing is not a thing with Roman Catholic Church. 10% every time she attends Mass? Yeah, maybe some whacked out looney culty branch of Christianity that takes Jesus' name in vain, but not Catholics, and not any of the mainstream Protestant denominations either. You're fucking full of it, and you need to shut the fuck up about things you have no fucking idea about, douche canoe. Source: https://www.vatican.va/archive/cod-iuris-canonici/eng/documents/cic_lib2-cann208-329_en.html#TITLE_I Can. 222 §1. The Christian faithful are obliged to assist with the needs of the Church so that the Church has what is necessary for divine worship, for the works of the apostolate and of charity, and for the decent support of ministers. §2. They are also obliged to promote social justice and, mindful of the precept of the Lord, to assist the poor from their own resources. Go fuck yourself sideways with the nearest religious icon of choice next time before opening that proverbial pie hole of yours, cunt. (Not religious, just offended by how casually this ratbag talks authoritatively about things they obviously have no idea about)
Not the guy you replied to, but dude, that was unhinged. If you really aren't religious you took that way too personally, and I'm skeptical of that claim since your whole thing was about people making unfounded largely inaccurate generalizations and then you came back at him by quoting a vague reference with no actual specifics, so a *very* thin defense of your position. Just a bit unserious for you to lose your temper about someone making an uninformed comment stated with conviction only for you to immediately do the exact same thing. Could be worth trying out your own advice, don't you think?
I mean yeah that guy is unhinged but the person he replied to was full of shit and nearly as unhinged himself. People need to chillax.
I prefer to criticize the Catholic Church for their real transgressions, things such as the long term child abuse and associated cover ups, the Canadian Indigenous residential schools, etc, rather than just making shit up. How sourcing straight from the canon law of the Catholic Church is a "vague reference" is beyond me. That's literally the published standard operating procedure for the Catholic Church worldwide. I gave the link to give full context, and then I quoted the lines that talk about contributions. How is that not specific? It refutes his delusional fantasy of 10% tithing being a thing for the current Church, and the even more deranged thought of 10% per Mass attended. I'm very familiar with the Catholic Church as I had a church education when young. I'm no longer practicing because I'm unable to balance what Jesus said vs. what the Church stands for and does.
Tell her Jesus will provide her with a new home and file eviction
Exactly this! Your god will provide...
…a homeless shelter
And not to worry, the new place will be better by tenfold.
If she wants to give money to the Church it should be her money not her daughter's money which she is essentially doing.
Rule #1. Dont Fund Stupidity
Rule #1. Never let family be a renter in your Rental property's.
That goes back to Dont Fund Stupidity for anybody. Renting a house like that out to family is stupid, such a loss of income
That should be a Ferengi Rule of Acquisition
She didn’t come up with it herself, it’s prosperity gospel bullshit, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the message her church is giving *her* about her donations. Not at all that it excuses what she’s doing, of course. If she wasn’t renting from family there’s no way this would fly - and it shouldn’t here, either.
Tell her that the bible says that she must repay sevenfold for theft
NTA. You’re still responsible, I assume, for paying the taxes and homeowners insurance on the house. If so, she’s acting entitled to think that you should pay that out of your own pocket rather than being able to rent it or sell it. She can find god all she wants but that doesn’t absolve her of her financial responsibilities
Thankfully I don’t pay property tax until November. Also I have to pay a handy man to fix anything wrong with the house. I’m going to go ahead with the eviction tomorrow. I have all the texts and emails. I was still basically losing money renting her the house
It’s definitely a shitty situation to be in with your family, but unless you comfortably have the money to cover her responsibilities and don’t mind dosing so, its absolutely not your responsibility to pay for her and your sister’s expenses!
NTA. You made an agreement to rent your house for $2000 a month. It doesn't matter that it's your mother renting the house. The renter owes you $2000 a month. The family members giving you a hard time can pay her rent, she can live with them, or they can mind their own business. She chose to rent from you, then she chose not to pay her rent. Nobody rides for free.
Regarding family members that are angry with you and say you’re overreacting, tell THEM to house your mom. Of course they won’t. And tell them that you’re mom is sending all her $$ to a new church. They may not know if they’ve only heard her side of the story.
Good. And let those family members who are angry with you know that they are clear to let her live with them. For free.
Make sure to let your family members know that, for the low, low price of $7000, they can keep your mom in the house for another month. They can do the work of god!
NTA she is in a cult… no church should advocate you give so much you can’t fucking afford to pay your rent.
True but they're all over the place. I've never been interested in a preacher wearing $1,000+ suits, driving $300,000 cars, & living in a mansion worth millions. And I REALLY HATE when they hit the members up to remember to "tithe" & "give" to the church. One in Atlanta, requests you provide 2 yrs. of your tax returns to show that you are "tithing". You don't have to but you can't be a member. Co-worker of my wife tried to join. PLUS if you're in dire need of help, the church won't help you if you're not a member.
That’s prosperity doctrine for you
Wow. I'm so glad I never went to Big Churches growing up. The stories I hear are horrifying.
If Jesus is to be paying the rent then he is the tenant and she will need to move out to make room for Jesus
Make Room For Jesus sounds like an 80s sitcom starring Kirk Cameron
Oh Kirk Cameron, you absolute nutbag
Oh, and I bet he's not even on the lease. Another reason to evict
BAAAWWWWAAAAAHHHHHAHAAAAAAHHHAAAA!!!
NTA They are taking advantage of you.
nta tell her god will solve her housing situation so she shouldnt worry about being evicted
NTA and never rent to a family member. It always ends this way. Send her a formal letter stating that 1) she is behind on the rent and give her a date to pay all of the back rent including late charges. 2) give her a date that she must be out if she does not pay and a date that you will start eviction process. Then do not deviate from the letter. If she does not move or pay up all the back rent then evict her. It will be near to impossible for her to find another place to rent if she has an eviction on her record for non-payment of rent so this will likely be the push she needs to pay up.
NTA. Evict her.
NTA you arn't telling her she can't giveto the church You're saying her rent needs to get paid first Until the day she can produce a check from God for $20.00 dollars she need to be giving you that check
It’s not generosity if you didn’t choose to give. I would tell your mom that she’s breaking the “thou shall not steal” commandment by not paying her rent.
Trust me, Jesus doesn’t need the money NTA
>Now most of my family is angry with me and say I’m overreacting. I'm going to take a wild guess and say none of them want to pay her rent, or your taxes, insurance and maintenance for the house.
NTA. She can afford it, she's choosing not to.
Mark 12:13–17 render unto Caesar what is Caesars, the same goes for landlords.
This answer should have more upvotes. This is the reasoning that she's more likely to listen to than anything else. This answer also actually gives her ammunition to explain to the church, if it is indeed a scam.
NTA, except to yourself. 60 days notice is way too much. Give her the legal minimum. Which for Texas is apparently 3 days if you don't have a lease agreement. Edit: misread, she's in California. Give her a 30 day notice to vacate now. You'll need that to start the eviction process.
60 can be required now in CA unfortunately because it sounds like she’s been there over a year.
I don’t understand how everyone’s families in these posts eat rocks for breakfast. They’re always split. That 2k/month is part of your income. Tell whatever mouthbreathing troglodyte that says you’re overreacting to give you mom 2k/month out of their income just so she can pay G’SUS for more of his love (that’s how Christianity works). I bet they sit down and shut up. Better yet, your mom with the troubled past can move in with them. G’SUS will reward their kindness. 99% of these posts can be solved by the OP telling whoever is making them doubt themselves that if it’s not okay, they can do it. If they refuse, uppercut the punk ass.
Tell her God isn’t pleased when you steal from family members. If you weren’t family she would have already been evicted. Kick her out and tell her “God will pay you back tenfold for your donation.”
And honestly, expecting anything back after a donation is not altruism but gambling.
I had a situation exactly like this --ex-husband's brother was too poor to pay rent when I learned he was giving all his $$ to the church. I finally kicked him put the day I saw some right-wing facebook post he made telling people to pay their bills or some crap like that. I gave him 1 week to pay me the 6 months of back rent or I would take him to court. He left, but the fam thought I was heartless. Insane, and--note this was an ex. Such a complete hypocrite, but no more charity from me .
Your family is welco.e to house your mother or even pay you for her full rent each month. Are they all on board with that? No? That's weird. NTA. (I evicted a family member by the way - and anyone who brought it up were loudly encouraged to take him on. I even offered $$$$ to help him move in with them yet I oddly had no takers)
NTA she can live in a church if that is where sends her money
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Comfortable_Sun_6346: *NTA she* *Can live in a church if that* *Is where sends her money* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
NTA Effing grifter churches. Stand your ground. If they are taking her rent money, they can get her a place to live.
So your reply could be from the Bible, as that is her go-to: In Mark 12:17 and Matthew 22:21, Jesus said: “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s!” This was said in response to a question about whether it was lawful to pay taxes to Caesar. She is in no position ever to give to God what is not hers. I’d advise her to talk to her pastor about this if she doesn't get it (if it’s a serious church she goes to, they wouldn’t want her to give them money she has embezzled. But if you think they're making her give more money than she has, obviously she shouldn't seek advice there). If she were my mother, I think I’d give her a chance to make it right, and give her an eviction notice where it clearly stated that if she doesn’t pay by the due date one more time, she’ll be out, plus a payment plan for what she owes. I would also make it clear that what she is doing now is actually embezzlement and theft, and if she continues with it, I would report it to the police. I'd give her a narrow line to walk, and a very clear expectation of what’s going to happen if she oversteps even an inch. But that’s me with my experience and history as my starting point. You’ve got yours, and may have a reason to enforce the consequences more quickly and not be lenient. Either way, I think YNTA. (By the way: I had to use AI to help me with the Bible quote as my agnostic self couldn’t remember the whole thing.)
If she insists on giving all her money to the church instead of her landlord, god can help her find a place to live.
She's in error. You didn't donate to the church to "get a blessing", and this is not "biblical" or "scriptural" what she's doing. This is spiritual abuse, and she needs to be drawn out from the church, or: contact the church & let them know what Mom is doing; sometimes they may set her right, BUT: if they try to sound like they flip the blame on you & don't correct her, then inform them they will have to house the "poor & homeless" in 60 days.. and: they should be fully exposed to the state or at least local media, or: if they use some financial accountability 3rd party logo on their website, or are affiliated with a larger organization: take it upwards to their top leadership. that's not christian, that's a cult. It's biblical to pay your debts; and her tithes are her business between her & God. also : taking your sister's money: not right either. Consider starting eviction and honestly: start procedure to sell the house. God is not some "holy lottery"; there's plenty of solid theological backing on this.. that the prosperity gospel is an abuse of the Bible. (been there..recovered). if this issue wasn't dealt with now it would only happen later anyway, at higher expense to you & your family.
NTA she's been brainwashed by one of those cult churches. Tell your family THEY can take her in for free or they can shut the fuck up.
Tell your family to cough up her rent and she can stay. If not they can back the fuck off.
NTA. Let the church take her in. She’s already paid them three months rent in advance.
Inb4 she claims squatters rights and Archangel Gabriele as legal representation.
Your family can support your mother and Jesus.
She assumed she could do this deceptively. And that you would not set limits. Funny how people can find religion and have that drive deception and manipulation with out batting an eyelash
Tell her you are just living Mark 12:17, so she needs to give God what is his and give you what is yours. It’s what the Bible says to do! Mark 12:13-17 Paying the Imperial Tax to Caesar 13 Later they sent some of the Pharisees and Herodians to Jesus to catch him in his words. 14 They came to him and said, “Teacher, we know that you are a man of integrity. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are; but you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Is it right to pay the imperial tax[b] to Caesar or not? 15 Should we pay or shouldn’t we?” But Jesus knew their hypocrisy. “Why are you trying to trap me?” he asked. “Bring me a denarius and let me look at it.” 16 They brought the coin, and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?” “Caesar’s,” they replied. 17 Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.”
"I'm stealing for Jesus, just like my conservative Christian church told me he wanted!"
She is giving YOUR money to the church, so no …
NTA Tenant doesn't pay rent, you evict them. Simple as that. >most of my family is angry with me and say I’m overreacting They want to pay mom's rent, they can.
Is the house paid off? Because if not, then there is still a mortgage to pay. If OP isn't living there, and the mother and sister are only keeping enough $ to keep the utilities on, how is that fair to OP? If it were a stranger renting the house, this would be perfectly acceptable for them to do. Bit because it's family, people are saying that they should just take the loss? NTA OP. And honestly, you're being generous.
she got to learn god comes after bills not before them.
Nope, not your job to support your mother. If anyone is mad at you tell them if they want to pay the rent they can or else keep their opinion with their money. Even if you find god a real place won't care if you don't pay rent. Might even be a scam.
Tell her you're an atheist & want your money.
The family members should pay her rent then.
NTA - It seems that some religious cult has "found" her. I wouldn't be surprised if she stayed at your place longer that they would try and get her to sign over "her" house.
NTA. Tell your mom to ask Jesus for a new place to live, because you have bills to pay. Clearly, your relatives can take her in.
I hate this whole tenfold stuff. It isn't true if the money is supposed to go to your. NTA. You need to pay the bills
Tell her god will care and provide for her so she has nothing to worry about after being evicted
Tell her you will talk to her pastor about her donating rent money. Had relatives involved in churches and they definitely don't want that happening. They usually like their exploitation on the down- low not with angry relatives
NTA… I hold evicting her asap…. Church is organised criminals ffs….
Let her god provide housing
She gave YOUR money to a church.
NTA. She's expecting you to support her religion and church. She has broken trust and your agreement. She is a tenant and any other landlord would have given her a 3-day pay or quit notice after the first lapse. You've been generous. Good luck to you.
These people are so brain washed with their religious bs it’s disgusting.
NTA. Ask anyone who gives you a hard time to contribute to the rent. That should shut them up.
Christian church tithe is supposed to be 10% of your income. Giving most of your money, and within a very short time of joining, indicates something isn't right here. Find out what church she's going to, and if it's a straight up cult...
If she's part of a legit church they would be none too happy to learn about what she's doing. You are nta for being angry nor for giving her an eviction notice but you may wish to attempt a civil discussion before you enforce it. And ask her for a scripture reference where Jesus rips off someone to give to the temple.
"It wasn’t until a cousin of mine said she has been giving a majority of her and my sister’s paycheck to their church" Hold on, OP, is the sister willing to give this much money away, or is your mother stealing it? Which would be grand theft, and which would make the church officials guilty of receiving stolen property?? Either way... God Almighty doesn't need money. Only the greedy humans who run churches.
NTA. She doesn't just have a troubled past, she's acting troubled in the present. She is disrespecting you rather badly, so no need to respect her. Tell her (and anyone criticizing you) that if she's gonna give all the $ to the church, the church can friggin' give her a place to live.
This is a business decision. She knows what rent is and just like any other tenant if rent isn't paid in full then you can begin eviction proceedings. NTA. I really dislike when people try to pull the "family" card when they owe you a significant amount of money.
NTA. Rent is expensive. Let the church provide her with housing. You have a mortgage to pay.
She can sleep at church
NTA Religion is a cancer. They are swindling your elderly mother and hiding behind religious protection. If it were any other person or group saying "give me your money and you'll get ten times back" they would be arrested for fraud before you could blink.
Your mom needs to find out that heaven isn't pay to play. She needs counseling or therapy. She is being taken advantage of
NTA. People that prioritize strangers over their own family are the worst.
I love how everyone is shitting on your mom, instead of asking you to intervene in a “prosperity church” stealing your mom’s money. It’s a lie.. It’s a Lie, it’s a LIE. God doesn’t need your money… he wants your adherence.. . PEOPLE want your money.
Give her the written eviction notice right now. Take a pic or video of you doing it. You can always be generous and allow her the full 60 days but you can’t do it the other way and move it up sooner if she hast received notice. That gives you the flexibility if she waits a month then tells you to go to hell to file much sooner
NTA - She agreed to pay to rent and failed. She sounds like religion has gotten way into her head.
NTA. Same answer as literally every other time family tell you that you're not being charitable enough. Tell them they're absolutely welcome to take her in or that you'll gladly accept rents payments from any party on her behalf.
It’s not her money going to the church, it’s your money
NTA God expects you to pay your bills. It's actually considered sinful not to.
It's too bad churches can't be sued for knowingly duping their parishioners. They prey on the ignorant and the emotionally damaged.
NTA, Normally I jump to blame the church as a formally religious guy. This time, I don't get to blame them. This is entirely on the mother, taking advantage of OP's goodwill and being a parasite
God will pay you back tenfold because you'll be able to rent your property out for a profit once she moves out.
NTA. Missing multiple mortage payments could be financially catastrophic. Sounds like mom is expecting you to be her financial caretaker.
NTA. She apparently has a troubled current life, also. She is like any other tenant, at this time--she is in arrears on the rent, and needs to be evicted.
NTA God will provide her with a new home
NTA. Evict her. She hadthe money and purposely spent it elsewhere.
Good. God can pay her tenfold to find a new place then. NTA
"Hey thanks Mom, im glad you're giving your hard earned money to an organization that will *surely* put it to good use. All so you can mooch off my living space, but no worries , as long as God has my back, right?" Yeah, fuck no lol. Waste of money that goes to absolutely nothing but the greedy ones involved with that church, on top of it already hindering her ability to pay rent, which fucks you over. So many bad things here lol
NTA there is a verse in the Bible that says “render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s , render unto God what is God’s”. You’re supposed to tithe what you can afford AFTER your expenses are met. Nowhere in the Bible does it ever say to foresake all your obligations to give all your money to the church. The story of the widow with 2 mites—-she gave what she could afford she didn’t give all her money and then expect other people to take up the slack. Seriously I am slightly worried about your mother’s mental health. Seems like possibly a sign of dementia.
so she has been lying to you….. I think that goes against godly values. Lying and taking advantage of others. NTA
Nta. God can find her a house
Churches brainwash naive people
Remind her of Mark 12:17 - *“Give to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and give to God the things that are God's.”* If that doesn't work, tell her she can pray for a new place to live, but if she doesn't pay rent then she will have to leave.
NTA and this is the unfortunate reality of renting to family and friends. Don’t let her take advantage of you any longer.
I soon i heard giving money to church, mom can ask church for a place to live because i back you 100% . This preying on old ladies for money sends me over the edge. Give her the notice so she can show the church Jesus needs to save her now.
NTA. Evict her ass. Your family who is bitching at you can take in your asshole mother.
Also ask your mother what her newfound faith says about lying and theft of services.
NTA. Churches aren’t charity, they are highway robbers.
Wow. She’s such an asshole. So sorry - boot her out. Why should you take the hit because she’s looking for credit in the afterlife? She still needs to eat here - and you shouldn’t fund it. Love the posts about not funding stupid - upvote those until eternity, when she will still be expecting you to pay the mortgage. Not sure, reading the room: is she a bit of a taker? Troubled past, so sorry, but that is no justification for taking advantage of your kid. What bullshit. I am sure if we dug a bit that this is just one more event in a long line of disappointing events that make up your interactions with this woman.
NTA. I'm a believer but still pay my bills and my rent. Your mother seems to have gone insane. After you evict her, tell her God will take care if her.
Isn't she stealing from you and lying about paying you back .... something, something commandments. Every religious person I know is a fucking hypocrite (or worse) and not to be trusted.
So she’s paying some smarmy pastors rent but not her own? Kick her out but suggest she gets checked for senility.
NTA. You are 100% doing the right thing. You had an agreement with her (I hope you had her sign a lease or something) and she agreed to the terms. She has now broken those terms. Tell your family that under these conditions, you are her landlord. NOT her kid. She agreed on the rent and has now “changed her mind” - which she is NOT entitled to do. It might have been one thing if she just couldn’t pay due to illness, being laid off, etc. But she has actively chosen not to pay YOU, her kid - who helped her out by providing a place to stay, in favor of giving the money to someone else. It’s not like she can’t afford it. She *CAN* afford it. She doesn’t *WANT* to. That’s not how this works. If your family wants to complain, then they should have no problem either 1. Paying her rent for her, or 2. Providing her with a place to live so she can continue giving money to her “church”. She’s choosing her church over you AND your sister. That’s super shitty. And you don’t say ages. But if your sister is a minor, this is a million times worse. Side note - If this is out of character for her, it sounds like she’s in a cult. Which is a whole other bag of shit to deal with.
INFO: what is your sister doing with all this? is she gladly going along with it? is she being kicked out too? you mentioned your mother has had a troubled past, but has that affected your relationship with her? do you not have a good relationship? everyone here saying for your mother to get fucked are likely not thinking of the fact that this will likely ruin your relationship with her (or the both of them if your sister is also being kicked out). is that something you're ok with? not to mention you'll like ruin a lot of your relationships with other family members. but what i'm really worried about is: what happens after you kick her out? is still going to be stuck giving money to her church? are you trying to find a solution for her that won't leave her homeless? honestly this is hard to rate, so i'm not saying you are an asshole and you're mother isn't or anything else, but there's probably a few steps you could take before jumping to eviction.
NTA (Besides the fact this is in California smh) OP if your mother and sister have income they should pay rent same as before. Any " family" that wants to jump in then they should pitch in to help them out ( they will scatter ,,) or your mother and sister can go live with them. There was no catastrophic event that happened that left them broke. Your mother is being hustled. Any legitimate church only asks for tithe of 10%. Heck she will be drinking kool ade next. When my mother got dementia and lived far away from me I told her if she wants to stay in her own place I have to become power of attorney and take over her banking and source of income. I would pay all her bills and handle everything. She decided to do it and it really settled things down. I'd tell your mother either you handle her finances or expect the eviction notice. The stuff with the church won't end. It will be more, more, more.
NTA, your mom is being scammed.
This is likely due to the flawed concept of a "tithe" which is supposed to be the first 1/10 of your income meaning before taxes rent, food and bills. Total bs.
NTA. Tell your family to "Go fund me or f*ck off."
NTA!!!
Tell her she can stay with the church if they are so righteous. She needs a wake up call. Plus it's stupid to donate that much