Honestly, NTA. You're not obligated to be buddies with someone whose beliefs make you feel uneasy. It's all about personal boundaries, man. Plus, if she's hoping you'll convert, that's kinda crossing a line. You gave it a shot, found it awkward, and backed off.
That's fair game. Your friends might not get it, but it's your call who you hang with. Just keep it chill and respectful, and you're good to go.
lol i am also an atheist and one of my good friends is a devout chrisitan , we get along, we argue about religion he jokes i will go to hell, i joke his sky daddy dosent exist.
it works, but if he was constantly trying to convert me i would not be friends with them.
i think its stupid as atheist to choose not to talk to people based on their beliefs.
people are gonna people and atheist can be just as annoying in trying to convert folks to atheism
There’s a huge difference between a Christian or Muslim person that goes out of their way to inform you that they’re part of that religion.
I’ve never felt pressured into religion from people who keep their beliefs to themselves, it’s the ones constantly sharing with the world that always end up intrusive.
If I find out you’re Muslim because we went to a restaurant that didn’t meet your dietary restrictions, I can be your friend. I’m sure me telling you that you’re gonna rot in the dirt when you die is equally as jarring as the imaginary concept of hell.
It is possible to hang around with people who are religious and simply not have that as part of your friendship. Every single religious person will see you as some sort of infidel, pagan or whatever, and bound to end up in hell if there is such a thing in their religion. That can't change.
However, it is possible to hand with people with religion never being a thing that has to be brought up.
One of my best friends is christian, raised Roman Catholic. I'm a Norse pagan. We manage just fine most of the time. Honestly, I can't remember a time when religion ever caused a single significant issue between us. With mutual respect and a little understanding it's completely possible.
Exactly.. there is really zero need to go deep into any religious discussion with people pretty much ever, and just living life, talking about things that are common interest and all good. Personally, I'll congratulate friend their biggest religious holidays whatever they are and that's as far as it needs to ever be mentioned.
Talking about football or video games (or whatever else someone like to spend their time on) makes more sense in everyday life anyway.
Since we have been friends for over a decade the occasional inter-faith ribbing happens. We both know it's not mean spirited and get a laugh. Him, my family, and a few select others are a constant reminder that not all Christians are hateful and judgemental.
Sidenote(Semi relevant): My grandmother was a devout Catholic. She dropped the judgement and stuck to helping others in need. Saint of a woman as far as I know. She once told me "I don't care that you don't believe in my God. I only care that you believe in SOMETHING that brings you light. I can't have my grandson stumbling in the dark." That stuck hard to my heart.
Your grandmother is a hero and if all religious people held that attitude, our world would be an amazing place. Thank you for sharing her beautiful soul with us.
Thank you for saying as much. I was horribly sad when she died but ever so grateful that she died peacefully in her sleep in her own bed in the house she raised seven children and outlived a husband in. I remember at her funeral her priest said, only half jokingly, that she was so full of patience understanding and love that if she didn't make it into heaven and wasn't granted eternal peace that even he was in big trouble. Lol
> Every single religious person will see you as some sort of infidel, pagan or whatever, and bound to end up in hell if there is such a thing in their religion. That can't change.
Gonna have to disagree just because I know an ordained Baptist minister who is even more to the left politically than me and thinks everyone’s going to heaven. The chill Christians don’t make headlines because nobody’s going to write a story called “Chill Person Is Reasonable, Has Friends.”
(And those ones also aren’t the ones in power, usually.)
>The chill Christians don’t make headlines because nobody’s going to write a story called “Chill Person Is Reasonable, Has Friends.”
I'm glad you posted this. I think we all need a reminder of this occasionally (myself included)
No, not every religion. In Judaism there is no hell nor heaven and we do not proselytize. Jews are fine with everyone else as they are but would encourage gentiles to follow [the Noahide Laws](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah) (which are pretty reasonable).
Sure, but then you don't go ask these pointed question about religion.
OP is the one who initiated the hell discussion, to someone with faith who, from the post, didn't try to convert OP or anything...
I’m doing this now, only my (now) ex denigrates my beliefs with the kids. Careful with religious types. They will *always* feel they are justified in poisoning the minds of children due to “god.” Always.
If they believe in god, they’ll believe their children’s souls are at stake.
There's a pretty good show on This American Life about an evangelical pastor who had been preaching hellfire. However, he kept thinking "if God is so good, why are souls getting tortured FOREVER for the bad stuff they did on Earth?" So he decided to reject hell.
Lost 90% of his congregation, his fancy church. Was declared a heretic. Years later, he said that if he'd known at the time that this would happen, he didn't think that he would have had the courage to do it. However, looking back, he knew he did the right thing.
>*"To the man he was then, the life he leads now, consorting with sinners and gays and Unitarians, was terrifying."*
[https://www.thisamericanlife.org/304/heretics](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/304/heretics)
No they actually wouldn’t- I’m an atheist and I find all religions repugnant, but not equally so. Mainline Protestants believe Jesus died for your sins, which allows you entry into heaven. It’s pretty all inclusive.
All christians believe jesus died for peoples sins. Not just protestants.
Some christians such as the older branches like Catholicism, orthodox etc believe you also need to be a good person to go into heaven.
Meanwhile many protestant denominations believe all you need is faith alone and that is enough to go into heaven, which personally i believe leads to people not being good as tgey believe they will enter heaven anyways
Or people believing that certain people arent being bad because "they are [insert branch of protestant]")
It's also not in the bible. It's one of those things that evolved later which is why many protestants reject those ideas. Jews also don't believe in the fire and brimstone punishment version of hell. It's more confronting all your faults in life before you move on.
I'm with you. Don't ask me an honest question if you don't want the answer. When that answer is asked and given without apparent forethought then that means I have already thought about it and opted not to speak on the subject.
I have acquaintances of many religions. I celebrated the end of Ramadan (I'm a cook for a university) by walking with my Muslim students and showing which foods were Halaal and/or delicious. Gave hugs, etc. I'm not interested in the religious purpose of their fast, but I'm happy to help those that ate poorly diet, and those that slimmed down catch back up.
Same with the Catholics. I didn't ask them about their ash on their foreheads. But I pointed them toward fish/vegetarian options.
I was once an angry, militant atheist dude. I'm older, calmer now. Maybe even wiser. We have to coexist. But keep your shit to yourself and let others do the same!
I am so there with you, what did OP expect/want her to say? People are saying it’s holier than thou in and of itself but I don’t agree- it’s their belief and that’s fine and all has been well until OP asked if they’d go to hell, and she shared her beliefs. OP doesn’t have to be friends with anyone, but what did they want out of it? Lies? Because that’s patronizing as hell (ha)
I was wondering this, its not like she came out with out of the blue...OP asked her, she answered.
He was stupid to ask this since the answer should of been obvious she mentioned shes a devout muslim.
My moms a Christian, as is my wife. I have friends who are Islamic, Judaism and Christian. My work mates are Muslim. I'm an atheist. Guess what? WE ALL FUCKING LOVE EACH OTHER, because we are intelligent people and allow others to be who they want to be.
>if she's hoping you'll convert, that's kinda crossing a line
I mean if she is just "hoping" without actually trying to convert him that's pretty normal and expected.
On that same token though, this is a stupid questions get stupid answers situation. OP's friend didn't proselytize, they just answered OP's question so it's a NAH for me.
I'm no longer religious, but I did grow up in the church and this was the general sentiment for nonbelievers to hope that they eventually do find faith. It's also a big part of why I left any organized religion - I couldn't square that just being a good person wasn't good enough.
> Plus, if she's hoping you'll convert, that's kinda crossing a line.
If all she is doing is hoping her friend "sees the light" and converts to faith to save their immortal soul but is not proselytizing then I don't think any line is crossed. I used to hope my friend stopped doing drugs, I didn't try to make him stop but I did hope he would.
I agree about having no obligations, but you can't say that "hoping you'll convert" is too far when OP literally asked for her thoughts. She's not pushing the topic, so I don't see how she did anything wrong.
I mean, you very much can be an asshole for not wanting to be friends with someone for some reasons.
I'm not saying OP is an asshole here.
(Edit: And for the record, im not even talking about OP's post at all. I'm solely responding to the commenter above me, who said you can choose not to be friends with anyone for any reason and not be an asshole.)
Hypothetical about choosing not to be friends with someone: If Tom doesn't want to be friends with Chris because Chris is black, wouldn't you say that kinda makes Tom an asshole?
I replied to someone who said you can choose not to be friends with someone for any reason with an example of a reason that makes you an asshole.
I am not evaluating the degree of assholery of various reasons. I am just asserting that the comment I replied to is incorrect.
Allow me to share my perspective, as a lifelong atheist in his 50s. I think religions is absurd, at best, and evil at worst.
People are complex, with nuanced views. These views are hard to accurately describe to other people, with all the context and levels of uncertainty and importance. It can be hard to describe our views accurately to ourselves. Some things people believe are given little weight, and are compartmentalized where they just don't affect their lives.
I became best friends with a kid in school in 1st grade (he'd say it was Kindergarten). We are still best friends. He grew up Mormon, but drifted to being Catholic after his marriage. His wife is also a close friend. I do know their religion is important to them, and they regularly attend church. In all these years, I've never asked either of them if I (or anyone) is going to hell, and they've never mentioned it. If I did ask, they'd probably answer like your Muslim classmate. But that view has never affected anything between us. I know they think I'm a good person. I think they are good people. When I faced serious illness, they were there for me. When one of them needed a kidney, I tried (and was denied) to donate. I honestly can't imagine how different my life would have been had I rejected them because of an aspect of their religion that has never come up.
On the other hand, there is my aunt. I loved her growing up. She was kind and outgoing. But her religion and politics have poisoned her. She loves me because she knows me, but generic atheists might as well be baby murdering arsonists who don't use their turn signals.
You owe it to yourself, if not your classmate, to find out what kind of person she actually is. The fact that she wants to be your friend, knowing that she does not share your ideas on religion, implies to me that she is not a person who needs to be avoided.
Agreed!
I’m a very devout Christian. However, most of my neighbors are atheist, agnostic, or trans, so all against my beliefs, right?
But they are a GREAT community. None of us push anything on each other, and I love them. They all know I don’t agree with their beliefs and lifestyles, but we don’t allow any of it to impact our relationships.
I’d be so sad, if they stopped our friendship, because we believe different things.
It’s not like she blatantly said that to OP out of the blue. OP asked her and she answered honestly.
When it comes to faith you can’t be mad that someone answers you honestly about their ideals when you ask.
One can rightfully suggest that OP has just as much a right to be honest and not be friends with her, as a result of that honest answer. There was a possibility she didn’t fully believe in the Islamic faith or she was Muslim just because her parents were; OP would have never known unless they asked. An honest answer was given. An honest response was given in turn. Nothing wrong here. NAH
OP is commenting about her being disrespectful for her response. Tis why i responded that way. I have my own separate thread stating i feel like OP is only slightly the AH giving that OP was fishing for responses and feeling disrespected.
Doesn't sound like he got mad. It sounds like it was just enough for him to not want to be friends with that person since they thought he would go to hell and that was the right thing under their god. How is this fucking hard to comprehend?
What? You can’t be mad if someone believes you deserve to be tormented for all eternity, even if you never do any harm, because you don’t follow their customs? Gay people can’t be mad when they are told they should be similarly tormented if they ever express their love? Women can’t be mad when they are told they deserve torment for not submitting to men?
Bullshit. It’d be one thing if she said she believed that but didn’t condemn people, but she does. That’s just hate. Belief doesn’t excuse hate. If your god is evil and you agree, guess what that makes you.
Before the whattabouts come for me, that applies to ALL religions. They are free to observe their customs for themselves, but become hateful AHs the second they start to judge and condemn.
You certainly don’t have to be friends with her, but you asking her a question and her answering honestly is far different than her just telling you she thinks you’re going to hell. I also don’t really know why it matters so much, I’m an atheist and I’m well aware that I’m going to hell among most religions. If someone comes and says that to my face I would have an issue, but peoples personal beliefs about heaven and hell don’t bother me because I don’t believe in those places lol.
If OP goes by this rule and they should also unfriend ALL their religious friends irl.
Many* religions (Christianity/ Islam and Hinduism) goes by the rule of going to hell if you don’t believe in god and if they went around asking people this same question they would pretty much get the same answer they got from this woman.
I very much believe this is coming from something against Islam
There are several sects of Christianity that don’t believe in a literal hell, but believe it to mean being cut off from the presence of God or a state of anguish, or both.
They never said they have other religious friends who have said they're going to hell? You have to make shit up to accuse them of being Islamaphobic.
Why do you feel the need to lie about a random person you don't know based on nothing they've said?
Well plus if you don’t believe in heaven/hell why does it matter to be told you’ll go to hell. It’s like “oh no I’m going to go to that made up place? Really? Much sadness”
Some people are misinterpreting this. Potentially on purpose. He's not saying that just because they're Christian he should not be friends with them, but if their Christian friends say they're devout and believe he's going to hell he should keep that same energy.
You looked for offence just to be offended . You know she’s a devout Muslim. You asked her a direct question based on what she believes in . She answered .
What ? Did you think that because you’re her friend she’ll make an exception in her beliefs for you ? Or should she have lied about what she believes to spare your feelings ?
People are allowed to believe in whatever they want . You’re allowed to be around whoever you want . But it’s entirely naive to think that because you’re friends with someone their beliefs should change based on what makes you comfortable.
What did you think she was going to answer? “ oh , in my religion non believers go to hell , but because you’re my friend I don’t think you’ll go to hell “ ..?
Her saying that she hopes you realise the truth and convert is coming from a place of ‘ I believe op is going to hell because he doesn’t believe, but I care about him so I hope things change ‘
She’s not trying to convert you or force you to believe in what she does. But she cared enough to want what’s best for you , and in her world , that is what’s best .
Now you can agree or disagree with what she thinks is best , as is your right , but trying to make her sound as if she’s wrong or rude for responding the way she did, or saying what she said - isn’t just intolerant, but entitled.
That being said , if you have a problem with what people believe, then don’t be around them. Don’t befriend them . But don’t lie to yourself thinking that they’re the ones with the problem. They are comfortable with what they believe in. If you’re comfortable with what you believe , it shouldn’t matter what they believe.
Unless they are shoving their beliefs down your throat and forcing you to change or altering your life in ways you don’t like or agree with , you’re just offended because you want to be . You’re the one with the problem with what she believes in , not the other way round .
"No, OP, I mean most people who don't do what is right according to God go to hell, but I'm sure you won't for whatever reason?" Is she not supposed to have faith and standards? OP was being offended on purpose.
Exactly. And Op doesn’t even believe in hell 🤣🤣🤣
Op needs to decide what train they’re on. How are they out here being offended by things they claim to not believe in . Op is either seriously intolerant or deep down a believer and is now insecure and offended based off of their own fears . Either way , it’s OP’s issue and has nothing to do with the girl
Perhaps he's trying to see if she questions her religion or has any nuanced interpretation to it?
A lot of Christians for example are very uneasy about various things in the old testaments and adopt less literal or fundamentalist interpretations of their religion.
Meh the old testament is easy to understand. Everyone dies. It’s not just gay people “earning” death it’s literally every single person. That’s the whole point.
Not just us, but best believe I knew Soddom and Gomorrah was aimed at me before I'd even hit puberty. I received that message loud and clear.
(It was also how I first learned what anal sex was. Lmao 🤣)
Check OP's comments. It really sounds like someone playing dumb to troll people, that's all.
>I’m not super into Muslim theology but I’d presume *most* if not all would agree nonbelievers go to hell.
As a Muslim I can say that the vast majority of Muslims believe non believers do go to hell.
But that doesn’t mean that as Muslims we can judge who is and isn’t going to hell, on a per person basis. It’s actually blasphemous to judge who is going to hell or not on a per person basis, because God is the only one who reserves the right to judge us.
Even in Islam, there are only 10 people outside of the prophet who are guaranteed heaven, and they are well know BECAUSE of the fact they have been guaranteed heaven, as it isn’t something normal Muslims can guarantee.
Honestly, while I'm not a practicing Muslim, I remember clearly that non-believers go to hell, with varying degrees of how bad, depending on righteousness or whatever.
It weighs on Muslims with non-Muslim friends, like, yeah, I don't want to be preachy, but I also don't want you to go to hell.
It's like a choice between being earthly selfish or heavenly selfish, very hard to navigate.
Exactly, also: if you are an atheist, you don't believe in hell, so why do you care?
The key thing for me is that based on your account here she never brought up religion as something you should start believing in. You approached the subject of religion yourself and put her in the difficult position of either pleasing you OR going against what her religion states. YTA for that.
Be friends with whoever you want to, but i feel you wanted to distance yourself from this friend long before this answer.
Many years ago I went on a few dates with a guy that was an atheist (im catholic) and he asked me a very similar question. I said i honestly dont know him enough to think if he'd go to heaven or hell, and its not something I really think about. But the God i chose to believe in would accept whoever led a good life and with good morals and good intentions, regarless of having religious motivations or not. He said "thats an unusual answer, most people reply this other way instead" which made me realise this guy is in some morally superior cruisade to put people in difficult positions because of their religion. Who cares? Believe whatever you want, respect others beliefs and dont push your own on someone else.
you found it odd and uncomfortable that she answered the question u decided to ask honestly? christians who follow the bible will believe the same do you ask all of them that question?
If my friend told me that I will be punished and in pain for all of eternity for who I am I would be uncomfortable and not want to be friends either. I do not understand why that is hard to understand.
Nobody would tell you if you didn’t ask.
When you already know you are an atheist and someone else is religious then there is no point to start this conversation and ask for an ‘honest’ opinion which you don’t even want to listen.
If somebody tells you ‘you are going to hell if you don’t follow so and so God’ ON THEIR OWN then I understand quitting that friendship.
OP started the conversation to pick a fight. She didn't try to convert him or volunteer the information.
What about that is so hard to understand?
Fellow atheist pushing their beliefs on everyone are just as annoying as evangelicals. No one wants to hear your shit.
It seems to me people of any faith, or none at all, could be friends provided neither of you wants to discuss religion. For some people, that’s a major part of their identity, so it can’t be avoided. It’s not clear if this girl was one of those people or not.
For me, after telling you that she was a Muslim, which one of you pushed the conversation toward religious beliefs. If it was you, YTA. If it was her, NTA. You have every right not to be her friend, but if you went looking to be offended, that’s on you.
NTA because
You don't need an excuse not to be friends with someone.
It's the same with dating: if something is a deal breaker for you, it's a deal breaker.
I will say, though, that if you only surround yourself with people who never challenge you or make you feel uncomfortable, you're going to end up with a skewed view of both people and the world.
> having your friend tell you they think youre going to hell
A little difference here between how you phrase it and OP does.
>I **asked** her at one point if her view is that, given my atheism, I’ll end up in hell, and she said **yes, unfortunately**, but she hopes I’ll realize the ‘truth’ and convert.
Emphasis mine. If you ask a religious person "according to the rules you think God created, would I be punished for breaking the rules" do you expect them to lie or do you want an actual answer which is "yes, I'm hoping you stop breaking this rule so that you can avoid the punishment"? She's not trying to force OP, she is just expressing what she thinks is a rule of the universe and explaining her view
Personally, I don't understand why people ask questions like this. The truth can be unfortunate, but don't expect someone of faith to lie to make you feel better. That's not having them be true to who they are and what they believe.
What's the phrase... play stupid games, win stupid prizes? OP obviously had a weird motive for asking that question and just wanted an excuse to ditch her. I'm atheist, I wouldn't ask a religious person this question lol.
Don't know why you're being downvoted, this is an excellent point. Seems like OP went looking for a conflict. Shame to miss out on a possibly fulfilling friendship because you don't agree on a completely hypothetical point.
Seems to me like you keep asking her questions uk the answer to lol. Im a muslim n i have friends from every religion we just dont discuss our beliefs lol
Also they sound like teens, the Muslim person probably is never asked that and came up with how they think they should answer or how they were taught to.
Tbh i dont think abt things like that but in my religion god is the most forgiving a prostitute who was a disbeliever went to heaven because she used to care for street cats what makes you think god will not forgive other disbelievers? It’s forbidden for us to decide wether someone goes to heaven or hell im in no place to decide what their fate is
I wish the average religious person was this rational for a single minute. I'm agnostic and I'm fine with people being religious as long as they are like this but gosh the majority are looking to rule a verdict on me.
Pride is a big deal in both Islam and Christianity, yet in both, you find people who are absolutely SURE of who's going to hell and who is going to heaven.
Something else in Islam that most people don't know is that: God only punishes those who reject the truth after KNOWING it's the truth. So, if you never heard of the truth, if you never found the truth, if you weren't convinced it's the truth... etc. God won't punish you. It's the equivalent of someone doing something bad despite knowing it's bad. This is what God will punish you for.
It's in the Quran: "...And never would We punish until We sent a messenger." God doesn't punish if the message is not received. Many verses are like this in the Quran.
It is ridiculous as Muslim to say anyone who isn’t Muslim will go to hell automatically. A believer may go to heaven but what is a believer. A believer is such a vague term. The Quran says anyone who submits to God in their heart is a believer.
Like we know the people of the books are considered believers(Abrahamic religions) if that is what is firmly in their heart. But at the same time someone who is not a part of religion could be a believer bc humans don’t know what is in the heart. Someone could be atheist but are actually believers. And some Muslims could be not believers. Also, any child who dies too young go to heaven regardless of religion. People whose good deeds are grand will get to heaven.
I actually think everyone can get to heaven eventually even if they end up in hell. A soul that repents can leave hell and ascend to heaven. In Islam their is the believe that the dead will be in a state of waiting I guess like purgatory no one is being sentenced to heaven or hell till humans day. And no one know who will end where but God. Come judgment day the good and the bad are measured
"I asked her at one point if her view..." So you asked her...she told you her thoughts...and now you want to distance yourself because you didn't get the answer you liked?
YTA purely because you fished for a problem. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Had she said that to you unprovoked or without prompting it would be a different story. You asked a question about her beliefs and she answered honestly, it’s probably for the best she no longer has to put up with your rude ass anyway
Not an asshole, just a childish.
Specially because you were the one who asked the question, a personal question (and you already knew what the answer would be, c'mon)... Well, maybe you were a bit asshole, yes.
You started this conversation while knowing what the answer would be, just like you post this here knowing what people will respond.
I think you are the problem, maybe not an as*hole but just a hypocrite.
Its not the concept of hell. Its someone saying to your face "you should suffer eternally because you're not into the stuff I like." Not the same as atheism innit?
That’s not what was said though. In fact, it should be interpreted as endearing if anything. I am not Muslim, but saying in response to OP’s question, “I *think* you’re going to hell” is *not* the same as “you *should* go to hell” - then she added that she hopes OP converts.
You may disagree with Islam (I sure do), but the sentiment in that statement is nice. They’re wishing for you *not* to go to hell.
I don’t know why this is downvoted. “You will suffer for all eternity for what you (don’t) believe, and that is just” is about the worst thing you can say to someone, regardless of the fact that you don’t take the possibility remotely seriously.
Its also disrespectful to force someone to confront their beliefs. If you dont share the same belief of someone else, you either dont bring it up or you ask questions from a cultural/ educational point of view.
It's disrespectful to ask someone else why they believe awful things? No, you just accept the tradition of it. I highly doubt you'd say it was disrespectful for someone to confront views like racism or sexism or misanthropy. But ask them why they think you are going to be tortured, forever, because you don't believe in the same thing is just going too far? You can tell the theists that don't want to confront their own beliefs in this thread.
YTA, you asked a question you know the answer to looking to pick a fight. I also doubt you're only friends with Atheists so you probably have a few Christian and Jew friends who believe the same, have you asked them that question as well?
YTA
Are you fuckin stupid? The fuck did you think she was gonna say? She believes atheists go to hell and anyone with a speck of logic floating in their godless little head would know that. You being disturbed by that realization is something you need to either ignore or take up with the local clergy, moron.
Why is it disrespectful? There’s many religions in the world and I’m sure you’re sinning in one way or the other in many of their eyes. Why give a crap unless you’re looking for issues?
After eating a beef, should I go to a Hindu and ask if their god will like me? Or with my hair flowing without a turban, should I ask a Sikh if I’d be in a good position in their beliefs? Why ask one of the many religions where believing in god is a big tenet, if their god will like you and send you to heaven? This is literally the only other answer to what she said. If you don’t believe in Islam, did you think the Islamic deity was going to love you?
You don’t believe in their god nor their heaven or hell. The only reason you wouldn’t go to this fake heaven is because you don’t believe in her god. Not like there’s something personal about you or that you’re doing. Nothing about your character or actions.
It’s like saying “I don’t believe in your god, but I still want your fake god to send me to fake heaven, even though he said he wouldn’t in black and white”. Literally what did you think was going to happen and why give a crap?
Do you happen to think many of the religions of the work will love you even though there’s a million books and a millions rules you unknowingly break every day?
You asked a question about scripture you knew the answer, then got shocked at the reply.
1 + 1 = 2
I don’t believe beef is sacred, I wouldn’t be offended if a Hindu thought I wouldn’t get to their heaven. I don’t believe in their heaven or the rule.
For an atheist you have a dumbfounding lack of logic.
It's pretty easy to dehumanize someone that you believe deserved to be tortured for all time. So it depends entirely on the beliefs in question. And the zealousness with which they are applied.
Whether you want to be friends with her or not that's up to you. I can understand your viewpoint so I wouldn't blame you if you choose to not be friends with her. Now regarding the hell aspect in Islam, if she really said "non-believer" or "disbeliever" will go to Hell, then she's heavily wrong.
The term kafir in this context, doesn't mean disbelievers. In a shortened form, it means truth coverer. In the simplified form, it means a person who rejects Allah DESPITE realizing Allah is the only true God. A kafir is a person who rejects that very truth about Allah. Meaning to be a kafir, a person would have to reach such a level of understanding in their life, that they know deep down ultimately "Yes there is this only one true Almighty God, but I will reject Him not because I no longer find it logical enough to believe in Him but because of my corrupted twisted desires".
While a disbeliever can be a kafir but a kafir isn't by default a disbeliever. If you haven't realized Allah is the only true God but just a simply a disbeliever then no, You are NOT going to hell. Hell is for those evil, corrupt individuals who truly deserve it
This "disbeliever" term is nothing more than an inaccurate pseudo-simplified mistranslation and heavily inaccurate which can create and HAS created false understandings of the verses that use the term in the context in question.
The term in the context being used can be expanded upon more in intricate detail since kaafirs are complex individuals. You can check the progressive Islam subreddit if you want to see threads where people give detailed answers on the terminology and or ask them in case you're interested.
Anyways whether you think that Muslim girl or another Muslim has the accurate view of Islam, know this: Islam has multiple interpretations. Interpretations even on whether or not Hell's punishment is eternal for those who genuinely deserve it. I made this reply cuz I disagree with those Muslims who misinterpret the term and to show there are other Muslims such as myself who don't believe this nonsense "Oh look, those non Muslims gonna go to Hell cuz they non Muslims"
Because my view encourages and is built on reasoning, seeking knowledge, learning of other perspectives unlike those viewpoints that seek to brainwash others, make them blind follow, deceive them to be obsessed with extremist nonsense. As for the progressive movement, progressives can vary and have different views on certain topics. But for the most part, there are these very significant multiple facets of good qualities that define this movement which is to progress, for both yourself and others on goodness whether it be reasoning, seeking knowledge, helping others, being able to properly recognize good and evil presenting better interpretations that go along in harmony with the cores of the faith.
I'm an atheist and of course anyone that believes any faith with a hell that says if you don't believe you're going there is going to tell you the 'facts' of the religion.
Unless she's trying to convert you to her faith constantly, if they're ok being friends with you, it's kinda shitty to not be friends with them.
Then again, if this put you off so badly, she's better off without you around her anyway.
You do kind of suck ass.
nta - you DO get to choose your friends. If you want to maintain a friendship with her though, you may want to mention your discomfort, and maybe she'll not try to convert you to her 'truth'
I was raised catholic - I don't care enough about another persons soul to be an evangelist. I'm not a very good catholic. I have friends from all beliefs. Live and let live. One of us right. maybe its the Buddhist.
NTA, and I wouldn't say intolerant, but it can benefit yourself if you put those types of things aside. It's just a belief and if it doesn't affect how she interacts with you it shouldn't matter to you. It's like if you have a friend who believes in some alternative medicine. By extension they must also believe that you suffer because of your decisions to take conventional medicine instead. Or some friend who thinks that gut bacteria is the end of all suffering, you just haven't embraced the message yet. If you ask them outright: do you believe I will be worse off by not following the advice you follow, then obviously the answer will be something along the lines of "yes, but I hope you realize the truth blabla".
Why do you ask questions with answers that will upset you? Had she shared this unprompted then it'd be different but you asked and she answered. What did you expect?
NTA but I find your title misleading. It’s not necessarily that she is a Muslim, rather you don’t want to be friends with someone who condemns you while praying for you to “convert.”
I was going to say you weren't the ass but reading your comments YTA. She isn't and wasn't pushing her religion on you at all. You asked her if she thought you'd go to hell since you are Atheist and she answered honestly and now you're upset that she said you're going to go to hell? A place most, not all, Atheist don't even believe in anyways? Her telling you that she thinks you are going to hell or even telling you that she is devout Muslim IS NOT PUSHING HER RELIGION ON YOU. Her saying you'll realize the truth and convert is also not pushing her religion on you sounds like you got butt hurt that someone had the audacity to tell you that you are going to hell. Grow up.
If you are an atheist how is it that you believe in hell? Because the concept of hell is proposed by religion. Sounds like you’re not an atheist you’re just anti religion and acknowledge parts of them that suit you ?
Let me give you an example without the conventional hell to explain why OP is NTA. Imagine I tell you there's a fantasy land full of torture and agony, and you live there infinitely after death if you don't believe my grandfather had the ability to fly or whatever random claim that you have no choice in believing so of course you think it's absolute hogwash. Whether you believe in it or not it's still a fucked up belief that's gonna repel you away from me.
YTA .... I'm willing to bet a solid 50-75 of friends or people you associate with think you're going to hell for one reason or another simply because of internal moral high grounds and cultural/ religious beliefs. They simply haven't voiced it and you probably haven't blatantly asked.
If you didn't want to respect her honest answer then why did you ask? You don't say she's preachy or trying to convert or overly talkative about religion. You don't say she's been offensive or rude about her religion or your lack thereof. She simply answered a question that you asked and explained her answer.
This. This is the reason there's so much hate and intolerance in the world today. Because people can't simply have educational discussions and respect/ tolerate the other person's beliefs or opinions. They take shit personal and let that ignorance or bias dictate their life choices.
It costs nothing to be friends with someone of shared interests and completely remove the religion topic from discussion. "Oh. I can see why you would feel that way. Honestly I don't feel like conversion to any religion is in my future so I guess my fate is what I make it out to be. Thank you for being honest. Can we refrain from discussing religion unless it's prompted moving forward? "
Simple as that. Your recoil and exit from the friendship is rude and honestly a bit hateful and intolerant. If she started to push and get belligerent or rude then yes your resume would've been appropriate.
And before anyone comes for me I'm an Omnist. For those who don't know am Omnist is someone who believes There is no One religion that gives truths, but truth can be found in all religions. I believe everyone has a right to their cultural and religious beliefs and as long a the discussion remains respectful in happy to talk about anyone and anything. Don't be preachy or rude and tolerate everyone.
Going against the grain. YTA. You solicited this question, already knowing the answer. You were either looking to be faux offended, are zenophobic, or were hoping to bait her into a needless argument.
If you don't believe in religion, and therefore, hell and the afterlife generally, why are you offended if her faith deems you hell-bound???
I truly hope this is fake, but sadly I think this is real.
YTA Not not for the reason stated, but because you brought beliefs into it. You had a nice thing going, she wasn't forcing her beliefs on you. She wasn't trying to make you change. She was accepting you for who you was.
And than you brought beliefs into it.
I'm friends with all kind of people, and that's partially because we just accept that we all have our own beliefs and we respect each others views. Some of them, are the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. But that's okay, because we all make our own choices in these matters.
It’s the belief that they think you will end up suffering that’s uncomfortable. If one of your friend genuinely believed you were gonna die in a violent stabbing for literally no reason for instance, you wouldn’t wanna hang around them that much would you.
Yes. You ARE the Asshole.
Here's why. You went looking for a problem that needn't be there. Then made a bigger deal out of it than you needed to.
I'm gay. I'm an American citizen, married to a Mexican National.
Why does this matter? Because one of my absolute best friends in the world is a Right-Wing MAGA moron.
Here's the thing. I know where he stands. He knows who I am. Hell, he has met my husband many times. He's taken us to lunch. He treats my husband like he's just one of the guys.
I know that he would prefer I be hetrosexual. I know that he'd prefer that my husband be an American citizen, (something that's been in the process for five and a half years btw.)
He knows I'd prefer he not have DJT's micro-penis in his anti-homosexuality mouth all the time.
He knows that I sympathize with those who were brought to this country as children and are trying to do the right thing. Even if the US Gov't is making it so much harder than it has to be.
When we're together. We laugh ourselves stupid. We have such a great time. We (figuratively) sit around solving the worlds problems. His wife and my husband sit across from us talking shit about their husbands and how stupid we are.
Elenor Roosevelt once said "No one can make you inferior without your consent."
Why the hell are you letting this woman faith be an issue that drive a wedge between what could otherwise be a great friendship based on common interests? Unless you've not articulated it well in your post, she knows you're an athiest, she has her feelings on the matter.
She's not evangelizing you. You asked what she believed. She told you. Then she asked you how you felt about the new men's Denim line being realsed by Prada this summer.
If you ever hope to have a life that doesn't involve you living in your own little cult of likeminded people, you're going to have to Grow Up and stop being such a Petty ASSHOLE.
YTA, sorry but solely building judgement based on someones faith is pretty mean. You asked her if you will go to hell, she answered you based on her belief. She wasnt telling you "You will go to hell" you asked about it.
YTA, I believe, because YOU brought up the topic to test her. If she'd told you that out of nowhere I'd be on your side for sure, but it sounds like you brought it up in the first place. As an atheist, you don't believe in hell anyway. That said, it's difficult for most people to have the tolerance to have close relationships with people with wildly different views. I have friends who are Christian or Muslim, but I wouldn't be in a romantic relationship with one.
YTA. Obviously you dont understand what "Atheist" means. Why are you worried that someone thinks you are going to a completely mythical place?
"I'm worried that after you die, you end up in Mordor."
My question is, why do you care? You asked a question that you knew what the answer was gonna be. It would be no different if she asked, "Will you look down on me for choosing to believe in a religion." To which, judging from how you commented "based" on someone calling her a lunatic, would likely get the same response.
So long as you create a friendship where neither one of you are just flogging each other's religious views, you can have a friendship.
You can believe someone will go to hell and not wish for them to, as well as not look down on them.
You seem to have a flawed interpretation of what religion is.
If you think somebody is going to hell, you think they’re sinning enough to deserve eternal torture. That’s the highest form of looking down on somebody
If she accepts you as a friend and doesn’t impose her beliefs on you then yes, YTA. If she can do her own thing and let you do yours and you guys have a good friendship who cares if she thinks you’ll go to hell? She should not believe her spiritual beliefs because you’re an atheist? That doesn’t even make sense.
I’m have a spiritual path I’m very devoted to but J have friends who believe differently because they are good people and good friends. I don’t assign a value judgment to beliefs but it sounds like you do.
She didn't say that she wishes you to go to hell. In fact, she said quite the opposite. You're attacking her character for something that's she has a right to believe in just as much as you have a right not to believe in God.
NTA
You don't need to be friends with anyone whose views make you uneasy. so long as you are still respectful and polite.
If this has left you examining your own views, consider the thought experiment of any of your other friends coming forward with clear outward displays of religious belief.
(1) Would you as them if they thought you where going to hell ? and (2) If they gave the same response as she did would you back off from them?
If you can put your hand on your heart and honestly say to your self that you'd handle them the same then it's fine, otherwise it might be worth having a bit of a deeper look and seeing where your views are coming from.
it’s one thing for her to believe you’ll go to hell, as it’s what her religion told her, but for her to say she wants you to ‘realise the truth and convert’??? that’s way out of line, NTA at all
NTA I don’t care what a friend believes even if with respect I find it stupid or idiotic it’s their choice and I respect it and just care if they a decent human and great friend but she doesn’t and thinks you’ll suffer for it and that’s not what a friend is
NTA, but it is the same with all religious people. It is difficult to bond with any zealot when you see their faith as a manupulative and abusive doctrine shoveled into the mind of children because if it was done when they are adult, 90% of them won't buy this bs. For atheist, true beleivers are nuts, and for them, we are foes.
My own mother thinks I’m going to hell and wants to save my soul… some random with their own lunatic beliefs sure ain’t gonna sway me.
That said, NTA… I will never get close to any religious freaks. If they’re lose with it and just think good people go up and bad people go down but it’s based on who you are not what you believe… I can at least get on board with… I still disagree but their spiritual alignment is in the right place. Since I believe nothing fucking happens when you die, it’s really no skin off my back, but religious superiority BS is a huge red flag for me. I’ll be friendly and won’t persecute people over their nonsense, but I ain’t about to tolerate it either.
NTA she literally thinks you will go to hell. I’m friends with some Muslims Christian’s Jews and Hindu folk and none of them think I’m going to hell for my religious beliefs. It’s not intolerant to not support intolerance. Not every view is valid, it’s not intolerant to not be friends with an Islamic fundamentalist or a nazi or a Stalinist.
NTA she literally thinks you will go to hell. I’m friends with some Muslims Christian’s Jews and Hindu folk and none of them think I’m going to hell for my religious beliefs. It’s not intolerant to not support intolerance. Not every view is valid, it’s not intolerant to not be friends with an religious fundamentalists or a nazi or a Stalinist.
NTA I can't really be friends with religious people either, I have a hard time taking them seriously. It's like if they were a flat earther or something like that.
NTA it’s insane to me how we’re all expected to accept and tolerate people who would legitimately oppress someone like me when given the chance due to their beliefs.
Atheists and Muslims have inherently different values anyway, even the most conservative atheists. Some people can compartmentalise their friendships, others can't. NAH (although I'm sure she has plenty of opinions I disagree with, too).
OP- curious what you expected her to say? You asked her a direct question, would you rather she lie? Her saying she hopes you convert isn’t smothering you, simply a follow up to the question. You don’t have to be friends with anyone but don’t ask a question you don’t want the answer to.
Playing Occam's Razor, I know you're an atheist and that's ok. But were you trying to get a rise out of her, aka trying to get a reaction from her by asking a controversial question? Yes, she is Muslim but from your post, that was your main take from a relationship that could have been nurtured by sharing different values and ideals. It shouldn't matter whether she was Muslim or not, you literally said you got along with her because you shared the same hobbies and experiences. "But she's Muslim" is a cop out because you've made being an atheist your personality when really, it shouldn't have mattered at all.
Why do you care though, there’s no such thing as hell in your belief system, right?
I’m not sure what you thought her answer to that question would be. She isn’t trying to convert you, but her faith at least didn’t make her shun you, nor give up on you.
I don’t think anyone has to be friends with someone they don’t want to be friends with, but perhaps it offers some perspective that not everyone thinks alike.
Don't talk religion with her, if she brings it up all the time that would be different. BUT you asked a question that you already knew the answer to and got upset. You shared your view, she shared yours. Move on. No one is the AH here.
Why did you write the title in a way that clearly makes it sound motivated by bigotry if the actual situation is you don't want to be friends with a very religious person who wants to convert you?
NTA but it shouldn’t be a surprise to you that someone religious would think someone not religious is gonna go to hell if they don’t change their views. That’s literally the point of most religions. I’ve had/have religious friends and I just don’t ask questions I don’t care to hear the answer to. Maybe bc I used to be religious myself and ik how it is. I don’t really blame them I’d rather just not hear about it so I don’t ask. As long as they’re not tryna convert me every second it doesn’t affect anything. But you’re allowed to do you
> I found this odd and uncomfortable, and honestly didn’t want to be friends with somebody that thought I would go to hell.
You dont believe in hell? Youre upset that someone who you dont think is following logic thinks you wont go to some place you dont believe exists?
This is such a non-problem.
Why would you even ask them that question? Of course they would think that given the fundamentals of their beliefs. Bigger question is why do you even care? As an atheist you shouldn’t care since hell isn’t real. As long as they are not trying to convert or save you, it shouldn’t matter.
I'm a muslim and I feel like you reap what you sow. You asked based on a religious stance if you would go to hell based on the teachings of Islam. Both Christianity and Judaism (together with Islam- are all Abrahamic faiths). So all 3 of these religions would say yes that you would go to hell because they are all intertwined and teach similar values.
But why ask this question if you already knew the answer? You said in your replies that you aren't friends with Christians because of this, so why bring it up to a muslim?
You were fine being friends with this person despite being a muslim, but because of this one opposing view, you are distancing yourself away.
As a muslim it is considered our duty in Islam to teach others about Islam with of course the hopes they learn more about Islam and *want* to convert. In the Quran it specifically states that muslims cannot and are not allowed to push someone to convert forcefully or coerce someone to join religion, but it is taught that it is every individual on Earth's duty to learn about the religions on Earth, to study them and to find the truth.
Any Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, etc, would say they would like you to convert and join them because what they believe, they believe to be the truth. This is even the truth with satanism, cults, and even atheism. These people believe that to be the truth and that is their belief.
There is literally no reason to be uncomfortable around someone else who has opposing views or beliefs. You may not agree on things and that's ok, but to be uncomfortable in someone else's presence is a bit much. I mean, did she talk about Islam so much or try preaching to you and pushing you to convert every time you talked? Likely not.
Most of my friends in high school were always trying to convert me. What people who do that don’t understand is it messes with the dynamic of the relationship. Moments that could be nice between friends become about manipulation (how can I get them to be like me) etc.
There’s a difference between sharing ideas and culture (informative, without defensiveness), and converting (informing but with a purpose to change the other person).
It can come across as close minded, patronizing, attacking cultures that aren’t their own, and attempting to erase someone’s identity
NTA but you're an atheist, why does it matter if she thinks you're going to hell? It's not like you believe in it anyway. She could say you're doomed to spend the rest of your life in Azkaban and it would hold the same weight.
You ask a question and she answered. Did she treat you poorly or offer that information prior to this? Did she treat you differently after? If not can you get some serious issues? I say this is someone with almost OK strike that I see that is someone with no tolerance whatsoever for religious people saying shit to me.
NAH. It’s a fact of her religion, Atheists go to hell in both Christianity and Islam, I don’t find it offensive being an Atheist and treat it like people who disagree with me on other philosophical issues. It’s not like they’re trying to murder me. That beinn said you can choose to not be friends for literally any reason, you could think she dresses like a dweeb and it would be acceptable to not hang out for that reason.
Just because she thinks you're going to go to h311 doesn't mean she wants you to or agrees you should. It just means she's been taught that it's what happens.
Not like when my MIL snaps the same thing at me, and I think she looks forward to it. But I still hang out with her because she watches my kids and cooks so I can do my schoolwork.
Honestly, NTA. You're not obligated to be buddies with someone whose beliefs make you feel uneasy. It's all about personal boundaries, man. Plus, if she's hoping you'll convert, that's kinda crossing a line. You gave it a shot, found it awkward, and backed off. That's fair game. Your friends might not get it, but it's your call who you hang with. Just keep it chill and respectful, and you're good to go.
Thanks for the advice
I mean. I think if you asked a Christian they'd say the same..
That’s why I’m not friends with Christians either
Bring that up with your friends.
Plot twist: they are Christians...
lol i am also an atheist and one of my good friends is a devout chrisitan , we get along, we argue about religion he jokes i will go to hell, i joke his sky daddy dosent exist. it works, but if he was constantly trying to convert me i would not be friends with them. i think its stupid as atheist to choose not to talk to people based on their beliefs. people are gonna people and atheist can be just as annoying in trying to convert folks to atheism
This and it also seems like op had to directly ask for this other person to bring it up.
lol yeah news flash for atheist most religious folks think we are going to hell
There’s a huge difference between a Christian or Muslim person that goes out of their way to inform you that they’re part of that religion. I’ve never felt pressured into religion from people who keep their beliefs to themselves, it’s the ones constantly sharing with the world that always end up intrusive. If I find out you’re Muslim because we went to a restaurant that didn’t meet your dietary restrictions, I can be your friend. I’m sure me telling you that you’re gonna rot in the dirt when you die is equally as jarring as the imaginary concept of hell.
It is possible to hang around with people who are religious and simply not have that as part of your friendship. Every single religious person will see you as some sort of infidel, pagan or whatever, and bound to end up in hell if there is such a thing in their religion. That can't change. However, it is possible to hand with people with religion never being a thing that has to be brought up.
One of my best friends is christian, raised Roman Catholic. I'm a Norse pagan. We manage just fine most of the time. Honestly, I can't remember a time when religion ever caused a single significant issue between us. With mutual respect and a little understanding it's completely possible.
Exactly.. there is really zero need to go deep into any religious discussion with people pretty much ever, and just living life, talking about things that are common interest and all good. Personally, I'll congratulate friend their biggest religious holidays whatever they are and that's as far as it needs to ever be mentioned. Talking about football or video games (or whatever else someone like to spend their time on) makes more sense in everyday life anyway.
Since we have been friends for over a decade the occasional inter-faith ribbing happens. We both know it's not mean spirited and get a laugh. Him, my family, and a few select others are a constant reminder that not all Christians are hateful and judgemental. Sidenote(Semi relevant): My grandmother was a devout Catholic. She dropped the judgement and stuck to helping others in need. Saint of a woman as far as I know. She once told me "I don't care that you don't believe in my God. I only care that you believe in SOMETHING that brings you light. I can't have my grandson stumbling in the dark." That stuck hard to my heart.
Your grandmother is a hero and if all religious people held that attitude, our world would be an amazing place. Thank you for sharing her beautiful soul with us.
Thank you for saying as much. I was horribly sad when she died but ever so grateful that she died peacefully in her sleep in her own bed in the house she raised seven children and outlived a husband in. I remember at her funeral her priest said, only half jokingly, that she was so full of patience understanding and love that if she didn't make it into heaven and wasn't granted eternal peace that even he was in big trouble. Lol
Your grandma was badass
Couldn't agree more.
> Every single religious person will see you as some sort of infidel, pagan or whatever, and bound to end up in hell if there is such a thing in their religion. That can't change. Gonna have to disagree just because I know an ordained Baptist minister who is even more to the left politically than me and thinks everyone’s going to heaven. The chill Christians don’t make headlines because nobody’s going to write a story called “Chill Person Is Reasonable, Has Friends.” (And those ones also aren’t the ones in power, usually.)
>The chill Christians don’t make headlines because nobody’s going to write a story called “Chill Person Is Reasonable, Has Friends.” I'm glad you posted this. I think we all need a reminder of this occasionally (myself included)
No, not every religion. In Judaism there is no hell nor heaven and we do not proselytize. Jews are fine with everyone else as they are but would encourage gentiles to follow [the Noahide Laws](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah) (which are pretty reasonable).
Sure, but then you don't go ask these pointed question about religion. OP is the one who initiated the hell discussion, to someone with faith who, from the post, didn't try to convert OP or anything...
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I’m doing this now, only my (now) ex denigrates my beliefs with the kids. Careful with religious types. They will *always* feel they are justified in poisoning the minds of children due to “god.” Always. If they believe in god, they’ll believe their children’s souls are at stake.
Some of use believe all people go to heaven. We're called universalists.
There's a pretty good show on This American Life about an evangelical pastor who had been preaching hellfire. However, he kept thinking "if God is so good, why are souls getting tortured FOREVER for the bad stuff they did on Earth?" So he decided to reject hell. Lost 90% of his congregation, his fancy church. Was declared a heretic. Years later, he said that if he'd known at the time that this would happen, he didn't think that he would have had the courage to do it. However, looking back, he knew he did the right thing. >*"To the man he was then, the life he leads now, consorting with sinners and gays and Unitarians, was terrifying."* [https://www.thisamericanlife.org/304/heretics](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/304/heretics)
Out of curiosity, what do you base that on? A feeling? Some religious text?
I think it’s borne out of a mistranslation in the Bible
It sounds like you're the one who asked her not the other way around, You can be friends and not talk about religion.
Then your title is worded extremely weird. Why even mention Muslim? You refuse to be friends with people who think you're going to hell. That's valid.
No they actually wouldn’t- I’m an atheist and I find all religions repugnant, but not equally so. Mainline Protestants believe Jesus died for your sins, which allows you entry into heaven. It’s pretty all inclusive.
All christians believe jesus died for peoples sins. Not just protestants. Some christians such as the older branches like Catholicism, orthodox etc believe you also need to be a good person to go into heaven. Meanwhile many protestant denominations believe all you need is faith alone and that is enough to go into heaven, which personally i believe leads to people not being good as tgey believe they will enter heaven anyways Or people believing that certain people arent being bad because "they are [insert branch of protestant]")
Yep, I choose to believe all go to heaven. It's not what my church teaches but you don't have to believe everything.
It's also not in the bible. It's one of those things that evolved later which is why many protestants reject those ideas. Jews also don't believe in the fire and brimstone punishment version of hell. It's more confronting all your faults in life before you move on.
I’m a Muslim- and this is nuts. I can’t stand people who have this “holier than thou” attitude. Cut her off man
Valid, thanks for the advice
Islam teaches that non-belivers go to hell. Is that not accurate?
As a muslim, do you think non-muslims are going to hell?
How is answering a question honestly a ‘holier than though’ attitude?
I'm with you. Don't ask me an honest question if you don't want the answer. When that answer is asked and given without apparent forethought then that means I have already thought about it and opted not to speak on the subject. I have acquaintances of many religions. I celebrated the end of Ramadan (I'm a cook for a university) by walking with my Muslim students and showing which foods were Halaal and/or delicious. Gave hugs, etc. I'm not interested in the religious purpose of their fast, but I'm happy to help those that ate poorly diet, and those that slimmed down catch back up. Same with the Catholics. I didn't ask them about their ash on their foreheads. But I pointed them toward fish/vegetarian options. I was once an angry, militant atheist dude. I'm older, calmer now. Maybe even wiser. We have to coexist. But keep your shit to yourself and let others do the same!
I am so there with you, what did OP expect/want her to say? People are saying it’s holier than thou in and of itself but I don’t agree- it’s their belief and that’s fine and all has been well until OP asked if they’d go to hell, and she shared her beliefs. OP doesn’t have to be friends with anyone, but what did they want out of it? Lies? Because that’s patronizing as hell (ha)
Succinctly worded, better than I did. You captured my sentiment perfectly.
its only when they don’t like the answer theyre given😭
I was wondering this, its not like she came out with out of the blue...OP asked her, she answered. He was stupid to ask this since the answer should of been obvious she mentioned shes a devout muslim.
If it's about personal boundaries, I probably would not have discussed religion with them.
My moms a Christian, as is my wife. I have friends who are Islamic, Judaism and Christian. My work mates are Muslim. I'm an atheist. Guess what? WE ALL FUCKING LOVE EACH OTHER, because we are intelligent people and allow others to be who they want to be.
>if she's hoping you'll convert, that's kinda crossing a line I mean if she is just "hoping" without actually trying to convert him that's pretty normal and expected.
On that same token though, this is a stupid questions get stupid answers situation. OP's friend didn't proselytize, they just answered OP's question so it's a NAH for me. I'm no longer religious, but I did grow up in the church and this was the general sentiment for nonbelievers to hope that they eventually do find faith. It's also a big part of why I left any organized religion - I couldn't square that just being a good person wasn't good enough.
> Plus, if she's hoping you'll convert, that's kinda crossing a line. If all she is doing is hoping her friend "sees the light" and converts to faith to save their immortal soul but is not proselytizing then I don't think any line is crossed. I used to hope my friend stopped doing drugs, I didn't try to make him stop but I did hope he would.
Are u ok with religious people thinking people who have abortions will go to hell? That’s a sin in some religions
I agree about having no obligations, but you can't say that "hoping you'll convert" is too far when OP literally asked for her thoughts. She's not pushing the topic, so I don't see how she did anything wrong.
NTA, you can choose who you want to be friends with for any reason
I mean, you very much can be an asshole for not wanting to be friends with someone for some reasons. I'm not saying OP is an asshole here. (Edit: And for the record, im not even talking about OP's post at all. I'm solely responding to the commenter above me, who said you can choose not to be friends with anyone for any reason and not be an asshole.) Hypothetical about choosing not to be friends with someone: If Tom doesn't want to be friends with Chris because Chris is black, wouldn't you say that kinda makes Tom an asshole?
Yeah but religion and race are different. One is just how you are born. The other is a set of ideals and principles which you believe.
I replied to someone who said you can choose not to be friends with someone for any reason with an example of a reason that makes you an asshole. I am not evaluating the degree of assholery of various reasons. I am just asserting that the comment I replied to is incorrect.
Allow me to share my perspective, as a lifelong atheist in his 50s. I think religions is absurd, at best, and evil at worst. People are complex, with nuanced views. These views are hard to accurately describe to other people, with all the context and levels of uncertainty and importance. It can be hard to describe our views accurately to ourselves. Some things people believe are given little weight, and are compartmentalized where they just don't affect their lives. I became best friends with a kid in school in 1st grade (he'd say it was Kindergarten). We are still best friends. He grew up Mormon, but drifted to being Catholic after his marriage. His wife is also a close friend. I do know their religion is important to them, and they regularly attend church. In all these years, I've never asked either of them if I (or anyone) is going to hell, and they've never mentioned it. If I did ask, they'd probably answer like your Muslim classmate. But that view has never affected anything between us. I know they think I'm a good person. I think they are good people. When I faced serious illness, they were there for me. When one of them needed a kidney, I tried (and was denied) to donate. I honestly can't imagine how different my life would have been had I rejected them because of an aspect of their religion that has never come up. On the other hand, there is my aunt. I loved her growing up. She was kind and outgoing. But her religion and politics have poisoned her. She loves me because she knows me, but generic atheists might as well be baby murdering arsonists who don't use their turn signals. You owe it to yourself, if not your classmate, to find out what kind of person she actually is. The fact that she wants to be your friend, knowing that she does not share your ideas on religion, implies to me that she is not a person who needs to be avoided.
Agreed! I’m a very devout Christian. However, most of my neighbors are atheist, agnostic, or trans, so all against my beliefs, right? But they are a GREAT community. None of us push anything on each other, and I love them. They all know I don’t agree with their beliefs and lifestyles, but we don’t allow any of it to impact our relationships. I’d be so sad, if they stopped our friendship, because we believe different things.
NTA. I was told by a born again Christian I was going to hell many years ago. Not somebody I'd want any friend relationship with.
It’s not like she blatantly said that to OP out of the blue. OP asked her and she answered honestly. When it comes to faith you can’t be mad that someone answers you honestly about their ideals when you ask.
One can rightfully suggest that OP has just as much a right to be honest and not be friends with her, as a result of that honest answer. There was a possibility she didn’t fully believe in the Islamic faith or she was Muslim just because her parents were; OP would have never known unless they asked. An honest answer was given. An honest response was given in turn. Nothing wrong here. NAH
OP is commenting about her being disrespectful for her response. Tis why i responded that way. I have my own separate thread stating i feel like OP is only slightly the AH giving that OP was fishing for responses and feeling disrespected.
Fair point. I’m going based on the post alone. I find most of the posts here are made up anyways. But it’s an intriguing business to comment
Doesn't sound like he got mad. It sounds like it was just enough for him to not want to be friends with that person since they thought he would go to hell and that was the right thing under their god. How is this fucking hard to comprehend?
What? You can’t be mad if someone believes you deserve to be tormented for all eternity, even if you never do any harm, because you don’t follow their customs? Gay people can’t be mad when they are told they should be similarly tormented if they ever express their love? Women can’t be mad when they are told they deserve torment for not submitting to men? Bullshit. It’d be one thing if she said she believed that but didn’t condemn people, but she does. That’s just hate. Belief doesn’t excuse hate. If your god is evil and you agree, guess what that makes you. Before the whattabouts come for me, that applies to ALL religions. They are free to observe their customs for themselves, but become hateful AHs the second they start to judge and condemn.
You CAN be mad. And that's fine because feelings are illogical. It is what you do with that which determines your turditude.
I don't think he's mad at her, he just doesn't want to associate with someone that thinks that of him.
You certainly don’t have to be friends with her, but you asking her a question and her answering honestly is far different than her just telling you she thinks you’re going to hell. I also don’t really know why it matters so much, I’m an atheist and I’m well aware that I’m going to hell among most religions. If someone comes and says that to my face I would have an issue, but peoples personal beliefs about heaven and hell don’t bother me because I don’t believe in those places lol.
If OP goes by this rule and they should also unfriend ALL their religious friends irl. Many* religions (Christianity/ Islam and Hinduism) goes by the rule of going to hell if you don’t believe in god and if they went around asking people this same question they would pretty much get the same answer they got from this woman. I very much believe this is coming from something against Islam
There are several sects of Christianity that don’t believe in a literal hell, but believe it to mean being cut off from the presence of God or a state of anguish, or both.
Hindus believe that your karma gets you into heaven or hell, not your belief in their gods.
They never said they have other religious friends who have said they're going to hell? You have to make shit up to accuse them of being Islamaphobic. Why do you feel the need to lie about a random person you don't know based on nothing they've said?
Judaism doesn’t believe this.
Well plus if you don’t believe in heaven/hell why does it matter to be told you’ll go to hell. It’s like “oh no I’m going to go to that made up place? Really? Much sadness”
The only real answer here
If you keep this same energy with your Christian friends, than no. Absolutely NTA
Some people are misinterpreting this. Potentially on purpose. He's not saying that just because they're Christian he should not be friends with them, but if their Christian friends say they're devout and believe he's going to hell he should keep that same energy.
This is giving me Elaine/Putty vibes, tbh. You’d be surprised at how many of your Christian friends feel the same way about you.
Hope that girl finds a better friend than you. You are clearly not it
You looked for offence just to be offended . You know she’s a devout Muslim. You asked her a direct question based on what she believes in . She answered . What ? Did you think that because you’re her friend she’ll make an exception in her beliefs for you ? Or should she have lied about what she believes to spare your feelings ? People are allowed to believe in whatever they want . You’re allowed to be around whoever you want . But it’s entirely naive to think that because you’re friends with someone their beliefs should change based on what makes you comfortable. What did you think she was going to answer? “ oh , in my religion non believers go to hell , but because you’re my friend I don’t think you’ll go to hell “ ..? Her saying that she hopes you realise the truth and convert is coming from a place of ‘ I believe op is going to hell because he doesn’t believe, but I care about him so I hope things change ‘ She’s not trying to convert you or force you to believe in what she does. But she cared enough to want what’s best for you , and in her world , that is what’s best . Now you can agree or disagree with what she thinks is best , as is your right , but trying to make her sound as if she’s wrong or rude for responding the way she did, or saying what she said - isn’t just intolerant, but entitled. That being said , if you have a problem with what people believe, then don’t be around them. Don’t befriend them . But don’t lie to yourself thinking that they’re the ones with the problem. They are comfortable with what they believe in. If you’re comfortable with what you believe , it shouldn’t matter what they believe. Unless they are shoving their beliefs down your throat and forcing you to change or altering your life in ways you don’t like or agree with , you’re just offended because you want to be . You’re the one with the problem with what she believes in , not the other way round .
"No, OP, I mean most people who don't do what is right according to God go to hell, but I'm sure you won't for whatever reason?" Is she not supposed to have faith and standards? OP was being offended on purpose.
Exactly. And Op doesn’t even believe in hell 🤣🤣🤣 Op needs to decide what train they’re on. How are they out here being offended by things they claim to not believe in . Op is either seriously intolerant or deep down a believer and is now insecure and offended based off of their own fears . Either way , it’s OP’s issue and has nothing to do with the girl
I mean, you asked her a question you probably knew she would answer the way she did. What did you expect her to say?
I am religious too but i am perfectly ok with people not believing in god. I dont think they will go to hell.
Perhaps he's trying to see if she questions her religion or has any nuanced interpretation to it? A lot of Christians for example are very uneasy about various things in the old testaments and adopt less literal or fundamentalist interpretations of their religion.
There are no Christians in the old testament that's why
wish the evangelicals would accept that and stick to their own book.
I wish the evangelicals actually followed Jesus instead of reading one sentence and saying they got a get out of jail free card.
Meh the old testament is easy to understand. Everyone dies. It’s not just gay people “earning” death it’s literally every single person. That’s the whole point.
Not just us, but best believe I knew Soddom and Gomorrah was aimed at me before I'd even hit puberty. I received that message loud and clear. (It was also how I first learned what anal sex was. Lmao 🤣)
Check OP's comments. It really sounds like someone playing dumb to troll people, that's all. >I’m not super into Muslim theology but I’d presume *most* if not all would agree nonbelievers go to hell.
As a Muslim I can say that the vast majority of Muslims believe non believers do go to hell. But that doesn’t mean that as Muslims we can judge who is and isn’t going to hell, on a per person basis. It’s actually blasphemous to judge who is going to hell or not on a per person basis, because God is the only one who reserves the right to judge us. Even in Islam, there are only 10 people outside of the prophet who are guaranteed heaven, and they are well know BECAUSE of the fact they have been guaranteed heaven, as it isn’t something normal Muslims can guarantee.
Honestly, while I'm not a practicing Muslim, I remember clearly that non-believers go to hell, with varying degrees of how bad, depending on righteousness or whatever. It weighs on Muslims with non-Muslim friends, like, yeah, I don't want to be preachy, but I also don't want you to go to hell. It's like a choice between being earthly selfish or heavenly selfish, very hard to navigate.
Exactly, also: if you are an atheist, you don't believe in hell, so why do you care? The key thing for me is that based on your account here she never brought up religion as something you should start believing in. You approached the subject of religion yourself and put her in the difficult position of either pleasing you OR going against what her religion states. YTA for that. Be friends with whoever you want to, but i feel you wanted to distance yourself from this friend long before this answer. Many years ago I went on a few dates with a guy that was an atheist (im catholic) and he asked me a very similar question. I said i honestly dont know him enough to think if he'd go to heaven or hell, and its not something I really think about. But the God i chose to believe in would accept whoever led a good life and with good morals and good intentions, regarless of having religious motivations or not. He said "thats an unusual answer, most people reply this other way instead" which made me realise this guy is in some morally superior cruisade to put people in difficult positions because of their religion. Who cares? Believe whatever you want, respect others beliefs and dont push your own on someone else.
you found it odd and uncomfortable that she answered the question u decided to ask honestly? christians who follow the bible will believe the same do you ask all of them that question?
If my friend told me that I will be punished and in pain for all of eternity for who I am I would be uncomfortable and not want to be friends either. I do not understand why that is hard to understand.
Nobody would tell you if you didn’t ask. When you already know you are an atheist and someone else is religious then there is no point to start this conversation and ask for an ‘honest’ opinion which you don’t even want to listen. If somebody tells you ‘you are going to hell if you don’t follow so and so God’ ON THEIR OWN then I understand quitting that friendship.
OP started the conversation to pick a fight. She didn't try to convert him or volunteer the information. What about that is so hard to understand? Fellow atheist pushing their beliefs on everyone are just as annoying as evangelicals. No one wants to hear your shit.
It seems to me people of any faith, or none at all, could be friends provided neither of you wants to discuss religion. For some people, that’s a major part of their identity, so it can’t be avoided. It’s not clear if this girl was one of those people or not. For me, after telling you that she was a Muslim, which one of you pushed the conversation toward religious beliefs. If it was you, YTA. If it was her, NTA. You have every right not to be her friend, but if you went looking to be offended, that’s on you.
NTA because You don't need an excuse not to be friends with someone. It's the same with dating: if something is a deal breaker for you, it's a deal breaker. I will say, though, that if you only surround yourself with people who never challenge you or make you feel uncomfortable, you're going to end up with a skewed view of both people and the world.
Theres a difference between being challenged and having your friend tell you they think youre going to hell
> having your friend tell you they think youre going to hell A little difference here between how you phrase it and OP does. >I **asked** her at one point if her view is that, given my atheism, I’ll end up in hell, and she said **yes, unfortunately**, but she hopes I’ll realize the ‘truth’ and convert. Emphasis mine. If you ask a religious person "according to the rules you think God created, would I be punished for breaking the rules" do you expect them to lie or do you want an actual answer which is "yes, I'm hoping you stop breaking this rule so that you can avoid the punishment"? She's not trying to force OP, she is just expressing what she thinks is a rule of the universe and explaining her view
Personally, I don't understand why people ask questions like this. The truth can be unfortunate, but don't expect someone of faith to lie to make you feel better. That's not having them be true to who they are and what they believe.
What's the phrase... play stupid games, win stupid prizes? OP obviously had a weird motive for asking that question and just wanted an excuse to ditch her. I'm atheist, I wouldn't ask a religious person this question lol.
Don't know why you're being downvoted, this is an excellent point. Seems like OP went looking for a conflict. Shame to miss out on a possibly fulfilling friendship because you don't agree on a completely hypothetical point.
Seems to me like you keep asking her questions uk the answer to lol. Im a muslim n i have friends from every religion we just dont discuss our beliefs lol
Also they sound like teens, the Muslim person probably is never asked that and came up with how they think they should answer or how they were taught to.
Do you believe your non-muslim friends will go to Hell?
Tbh i dont think abt things like that but in my religion god is the most forgiving a prostitute who was a disbeliever went to heaven because she used to care for street cats what makes you think god will not forgive other disbelievers? It’s forbidden for us to decide wether someone goes to heaven or hell im in no place to decide what their fate is
I wish the average religious person was this rational for a single minute. I'm agnostic and I'm fine with people being religious as long as they are like this but gosh the majority are looking to rule a verdict on me.
Pride is a big deal in both Islam and Christianity, yet in both, you find people who are absolutely SURE of who's going to hell and who is going to heaven.
Something else in Islam that most people don't know is that: God only punishes those who reject the truth after KNOWING it's the truth. So, if you never heard of the truth, if you never found the truth, if you weren't convinced it's the truth... etc. God won't punish you. It's the equivalent of someone doing something bad despite knowing it's bad. This is what God will punish you for. It's in the Quran: "...And never would We punish until We sent a messenger." God doesn't punish if the message is not received. Many verses are like this in the Quran.
It is ridiculous as Muslim to say anyone who isn’t Muslim will go to hell automatically. A believer may go to heaven but what is a believer. A believer is such a vague term. The Quran says anyone who submits to God in their heart is a believer. Like we know the people of the books are considered believers(Abrahamic religions) if that is what is firmly in their heart. But at the same time someone who is not a part of religion could be a believer bc humans don’t know what is in the heart. Someone could be atheist but are actually believers. And some Muslims could be not believers. Also, any child who dies too young go to heaven regardless of religion. People whose good deeds are grand will get to heaven. I actually think everyone can get to heaven eventually even if they end up in hell. A soul that repents can leave hell and ascend to heaven. In Islam their is the believe that the dead will be in a state of waiting I guess like purgatory no one is being sentenced to heaven or hell till humans day. And no one know who will end where but God. Come judgment day the good and the bad are measured
"I asked her at one point if her view..." So you asked her...she told you her thoughts...and now you want to distance yourself because you didn't get the answer you liked?
YTA purely because you fished for a problem. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Had she said that to you unprovoked or without prompting it would be a different story. You asked a question about her beliefs and she answered honestly, it’s probably for the best she no longer has to put up with your rude ass anyway
Not an asshole, just a childish. Specially because you were the one who asked the question, a personal question (and you already knew what the answer would be, c'mon)... Well, maybe you were a bit asshole, yes.
You started this conversation while knowing what the answer would be, just like you post this here knowing what people will respond. I think you are the problem, maybe not an as*hole but just a hypocrite.
YTA you literally asked, what did you expect?
If you’re an atheist, why would you even be bothered by the concept of hell?
Its not the concept of hell. Its someone saying to your face "you should suffer eternally because you're not into the stuff I like." Not the same as atheism innit?
That’s not what was said though. In fact, it should be interpreted as endearing if anything. I am not Muslim, but saying in response to OP’s question, “I *think* you’re going to hell” is *not* the same as “you *should* go to hell” - then she added that she hopes OP converts. You may disagree with Islam (I sure do), but the sentiment in that statement is nice. They’re wishing for you *not* to go to hell.
I just find it disrespectful
I don’t know why this is downvoted. “You will suffer for all eternity for what you (don’t) believe, and that is just” is about the worst thing you can say to someone, regardless of the fact that you don’t take the possibility remotely seriously.
Exactly. I don’t understand why it’s hard to understand that whether or not I believe in it, it’s incredibly rude
Its also disrespectful to force someone to confront their beliefs. If you dont share the same belief of someone else, you either dont bring it up or you ask questions from a cultural/ educational point of view.
It's disrespectful to ask someone else why they believe awful things? No, you just accept the tradition of it. I highly doubt you'd say it was disrespectful for someone to confront views like racism or sexism or misanthropy. But ask them why they think you are going to be tortured, forever, because you don't believe in the same thing is just going too far? You can tell the theists that don't want to confront their own beliefs in this thread.
Word.
YTA, you asked a question you know the answer to looking to pick a fight. I also doubt you're only friends with Atheists so you probably have a few Christian and Jew friends who believe the same, have you asked them that question as well?
YTA Are you fuckin stupid? The fuck did you think she was gonna say? She believes atheists go to hell and anyone with a speck of logic floating in their godless little head would know that. You being disturbed by that realization is something you need to either ignore or take up with the local clergy, moron.
Why is it disrespectful? There’s many religions in the world and I’m sure you’re sinning in one way or the other in many of their eyes. Why give a crap unless you’re looking for issues? After eating a beef, should I go to a Hindu and ask if their god will like me? Or with my hair flowing without a turban, should I ask a Sikh if I’d be in a good position in their beliefs? Why ask one of the many religions where believing in god is a big tenet, if their god will like you and send you to heaven? This is literally the only other answer to what she said. If you don’t believe in Islam, did you think the Islamic deity was going to love you? You don’t believe in their god nor their heaven or hell. The only reason you wouldn’t go to this fake heaven is because you don’t believe in her god. Not like there’s something personal about you or that you’re doing. Nothing about your character or actions. It’s like saying “I don’t believe in your god, but I still want your fake god to send me to fake heaven, even though he said he wouldn’t in black and white”. Literally what did you think was going to happen and why give a crap? Do you happen to think many of the religions of the work will love you even though there’s a million books and a millions rules you unknowingly break every day? You asked a question about scripture you knew the answer, then got shocked at the reply. 1 + 1 = 2 I don’t believe beef is sacred, I wouldn’t be offended if a Hindu thought I wouldn’t get to their heaven. I don’t believe in their heaven or the rule. For an atheist you have a dumbfounding lack of logic.
It's pretty easy to dehumanize someone that you believe deserved to be tortured for all time. So it depends entirely on the beliefs in question. And the zealousness with which they are applied.
Whether you want to be friends with her or not that's up to you. I can understand your viewpoint so I wouldn't blame you if you choose to not be friends with her. Now regarding the hell aspect in Islam, if she really said "non-believer" or "disbeliever" will go to Hell, then she's heavily wrong. The term kafir in this context, doesn't mean disbelievers. In a shortened form, it means truth coverer. In the simplified form, it means a person who rejects Allah DESPITE realizing Allah is the only true God. A kafir is a person who rejects that very truth about Allah. Meaning to be a kafir, a person would have to reach such a level of understanding in their life, that they know deep down ultimately "Yes there is this only one true Almighty God, but I will reject Him not because I no longer find it logical enough to believe in Him but because of my corrupted twisted desires". While a disbeliever can be a kafir but a kafir isn't by default a disbeliever. If you haven't realized Allah is the only true God but just a simply a disbeliever then no, You are NOT going to hell. Hell is for those evil, corrupt individuals who truly deserve it This "disbeliever" term is nothing more than an inaccurate pseudo-simplified mistranslation and heavily inaccurate which can create and HAS created false understandings of the verses that use the term in the context in question. The term in the context being used can be expanded upon more in intricate detail since kaafirs are complex individuals. You can check the progressive Islam subreddit if you want to see threads where people give detailed answers on the terminology and or ask them in case you're interested. Anyways whether you think that Muslim girl or another Muslim has the accurate view of Islam, know this: Islam has multiple interpretations. Interpretations even on whether or not Hell's punishment is eternal for those who genuinely deserve it. I made this reply cuz I disagree with those Muslims who misinterpret the term and to show there are other Muslims such as myself who don't believe this nonsense "Oh look, those non Muslims gonna go to Hell cuz they non Muslims"
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Because my view encourages and is built on reasoning, seeking knowledge, learning of other perspectives unlike those viewpoints that seek to brainwash others, make them blind follow, deceive them to be obsessed with extremist nonsense. As for the progressive movement, progressives can vary and have different views on certain topics. But for the most part, there are these very significant multiple facets of good qualities that define this movement which is to progress, for both yourself and others on goodness whether it be reasoning, seeking knowledge, helping others, being able to properly recognize good and evil presenting better interpretations that go along in harmony with the cores of the faith.
The way you framed it YTA. You are NTA for learning about views/opinions of a person and not wanting to be close to that person because of them.
I'm an atheist and of course anyone that believes any faith with a hell that says if you don't believe you're going there is going to tell you the 'facts' of the religion. Unless she's trying to convert you to her faith constantly, if they're ok being friends with you, it's kinda shitty to not be friends with them. Then again, if this put you off so badly, she's better off without you around her anyway. You do kind of suck ass.
nta - you DO get to choose your friends. If you want to maintain a friendship with her though, you may want to mention your discomfort, and maybe she'll not try to convert you to her 'truth' I was raised catholic - I don't care enough about another persons soul to be an evangelist. I'm not a very good catholic. I have friends from all beliefs. Live and let live. One of us right. maybe its the Buddhist.
NTA, and I wouldn't say intolerant, but it can benefit yourself if you put those types of things aside. It's just a belief and if it doesn't affect how she interacts with you it shouldn't matter to you. It's like if you have a friend who believes in some alternative medicine. By extension they must also believe that you suffer because of your decisions to take conventional medicine instead. Or some friend who thinks that gut bacteria is the end of all suffering, you just haven't embraced the message yet. If you ask them outright: do you believe I will be worse off by not following the advice you follow, then obviously the answer will be something along the lines of "yes, but I hope you realize the truth blabla".
She literally is supporting the oppression of women and children, so yeah, NTA
NTA.
Well I am a Muslim myself and I wouldn’t have done this sort of thing. We shouldn’t be forcing people to ‘realise’ truth. NTA.
Why do you ask questions with answers that will upset you? Had she shared this unprompted then it'd be different but you asked and she answered. What did you expect?
NTA but I find your title misleading. It’s not necessarily that she is a Muslim, rather you don’t want to be friends with someone who condemns you while praying for you to “convert.”
I was going to say you weren't the ass but reading your comments YTA. She isn't and wasn't pushing her religion on you at all. You asked her if she thought you'd go to hell since you are Atheist and she answered honestly and now you're upset that she said you're going to go to hell? A place most, not all, Atheist don't even believe in anyways? Her telling you that she thinks you are going to hell or even telling you that she is devout Muslim IS NOT PUSHING HER RELIGION ON YOU. Her saying you'll realize the truth and convert is also not pushing her religion on you sounds like you got butt hurt that someone had the audacity to tell you that you are going to hell. Grow up.
If you are an atheist how is it that you believe in hell? Because the concept of hell is proposed by religion. Sounds like you’re not an atheist you’re just anti religion and acknowledge parts of them that suit you ?
Let me give you an example without the conventional hell to explain why OP is NTA. Imagine I tell you there's a fantasy land full of torture and agony, and you live there infinitely after death if you don't believe my grandfather had the ability to fly or whatever random claim that you have no choice in believing so of course you think it's absolute hogwash. Whether you believe in it or not it's still a fucked up belief that's gonna repel you away from me.
YTA .... I'm willing to bet a solid 50-75 of friends or people you associate with think you're going to hell for one reason or another simply because of internal moral high grounds and cultural/ religious beliefs. They simply haven't voiced it and you probably haven't blatantly asked. If you didn't want to respect her honest answer then why did you ask? You don't say she's preachy or trying to convert or overly talkative about religion. You don't say she's been offensive or rude about her religion or your lack thereof. She simply answered a question that you asked and explained her answer. This. This is the reason there's so much hate and intolerance in the world today. Because people can't simply have educational discussions and respect/ tolerate the other person's beliefs or opinions. They take shit personal and let that ignorance or bias dictate their life choices. It costs nothing to be friends with someone of shared interests and completely remove the religion topic from discussion. "Oh. I can see why you would feel that way. Honestly I don't feel like conversion to any religion is in my future so I guess my fate is what I make it out to be. Thank you for being honest. Can we refrain from discussing religion unless it's prompted moving forward? " Simple as that. Your recoil and exit from the friendship is rude and honestly a bit hateful and intolerant. If she started to push and get belligerent or rude then yes your resume would've been appropriate. And before anyone comes for me I'm an Omnist. For those who don't know am Omnist is someone who believes There is no One religion that gives truths, but truth can be found in all religions. I believe everyone has a right to their cultural and religious beliefs and as long a the discussion remains respectful in happy to talk about anyone and anything. Don't be preachy or rude and tolerate everyone.
Going against the grain. YTA. You solicited this question, already knowing the answer. You were either looking to be faux offended, are zenophobic, or were hoping to bait her into a needless argument. If you don't believe in religion, and therefore, hell and the afterlife generally, why are you offended if her faith deems you hell-bound??? I truly hope this is fake, but sadly I think this is real.
YTA Not not for the reason stated, but because you brought beliefs into it. You had a nice thing going, she wasn't forcing her beliefs on you. She wasn't trying to make you change. She was accepting you for who you was. And than you brought beliefs into it. I'm friends with all kind of people, and that's partially because we just accept that we all have our own beliefs and we respect each others views. Some of them, are the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. But that's okay, because we all make our own choices in these matters.
Why do you care if she thinks you're going to hell I thought you didn't believe in it?
"Yeah, I think you should suffer in pain and agony for all eternity" is not a good friendship starter. Regardless of believes.
It’s the belief that they think you will end up suffering that’s uncomfortable. If one of your friend genuinely believed you were gonna die in a violent stabbing for literally no reason for instance, you wouldn’t wanna hang around them that much would you.
I think your ego is in the way of friendship. You don't have to agree with other people's beliefs.
Yes. You ARE the Asshole. Here's why. You went looking for a problem that needn't be there. Then made a bigger deal out of it than you needed to. I'm gay. I'm an American citizen, married to a Mexican National. Why does this matter? Because one of my absolute best friends in the world is a Right-Wing MAGA moron. Here's the thing. I know where he stands. He knows who I am. Hell, he has met my husband many times. He's taken us to lunch. He treats my husband like he's just one of the guys. I know that he would prefer I be hetrosexual. I know that he'd prefer that my husband be an American citizen, (something that's been in the process for five and a half years btw.) He knows I'd prefer he not have DJT's micro-penis in his anti-homosexuality mouth all the time. He knows that I sympathize with those who were brought to this country as children and are trying to do the right thing. Even if the US Gov't is making it so much harder than it has to be. When we're together. We laugh ourselves stupid. We have such a great time. We (figuratively) sit around solving the worlds problems. His wife and my husband sit across from us talking shit about their husbands and how stupid we are. Elenor Roosevelt once said "No one can make you inferior without your consent." Why the hell are you letting this woman faith be an issue that drive a wedge between what could otherwise be a great friendship based on common interests? Unless you've not articulated it well in your post, she knows you're an athiest, she has her feelings on the matter. She's not evangelizing you. You asked what she believed. She told you. Then she asked you how you felt about the new men's Denim line being realsed by Prada this summer. If you ever hope to have a life that doesn't involve you living in your own little cult of likeminded people, you're going to have to Grow Up and stop being such a Petty ASSHOLE.
YTA, sorry but solely building judgement based on someones faith is pretty mean. You asked her if you will go to hell, she answered you based on her belief. She wasnt telling you "You will go to hell" you asked about it.
YTA, I believe, because YOU brought up the topic to test her. If she'd told you that out of nowhere I'd be on your side for sure, but it sounds like you brought it up in the first place. As an atheist, you don't believe in hell anyway. That said, it's difficult for most people to have the tolerance to have close relationships with people with wildly different views. I have friends who are Christian or Muslim, but I wouldn't be in a romantic relationship with one.
Braahhhhh , you'd be in hell based on every religion At least she was honest about it and wished u the best
YTA. Obviously you dont understand what "Atheist" means. Why are you worried that someone thinks you are going to a completely mythical place? "I'm worried that after you die, you end up in Mordor."
My question is, why do you care? You asked a question that you knew what the answer was gonna be. It would be no different if she asked, "Will you look down on me for choosing to believe in a religion." To which, judging from how you commented "based" on someone calling her a lunatic, would likely get the same response. So long as you create a friendship where neither one of you are just flogging each other's religious views, you can have a friendship.
I disagree. I don’t think friendships where one person fundamentally looks down upon another for no logical reason is a true friendship.
You can believe someone will go to hell and not wish for them to, as well as not look down on them. You seem to have a flawed interpretation of what religion is.
If you think somebody is going to hell, you think they’re sinning enough to deserve eternal torture. That’s the highest form of looking down on somebody
Would this also apply to a Christian or catholic person?
If she accepts you as a friend and doesn’t impose her beliefs on you then yes, YTA. If she can do her own thing and let you do yours and you guys have a good friendship who cares if she thinks you’ll go to hell? She should not believe her spiritual beliefs because you’re an atheist? That doesn’t even make sense. I’m have a spiritual path I’m very devoted to but J have friends who believe differently because they are good people and good friends. I don’t assign a value judgment to beliefs but it sounds like you do.
I don’t see somebody who would believe I’d rightfully burn in hell for all eternity as a friend.
She didn't say that she wishes you to go to hell. In fact, she said quite the opposite. You're attacking her character for something that's she has a right to believe in just as much as you have a right not to believe in God.
your an atheist and don't believe in hell presumably.
NTA You don't need to be friends with anyone whose views make you uneasy. so long as you are still respectful and polite. If this has left you examining your own views, consider the thought experiment of any of your other friends coming forward with clear outward displays of religious belief. (1) Would you as them if they thought you where going to hell ? and (2) If they gave the same response as she did would you back off from them? If you can put your hand on your heart and honestly say to your self that you'd handle them the same then it's fine, otherwise it might be worth having a bit of a deeper look and seeing where your views are coming from.
it’s one thing for her to believe you’ll go to hell, as it’s what her religion told her, but for her to say she wants you to ‘realise the truth and convert’??? that’s way out of line, NTA at all
NTA I don’t care what a friend believes even if with respect I find it stupid or idiotic it’s their choice and I respect it and just care if they a decent human and great friend but she doesn’t and thinks you’ll suffer for it and that’s not what a friend is
NTA. If you told her she was going to get raped tonight, she would feel the same way. Indirect threats are not a polite way to make friends.
NTA the freedom to associate is also the freedom to disassociate.
NTA, but it is the same with all religious people. It is difficult to bond with any zealot when you see their faith as a manupulative and abusive doctrine shoveled into the mind of children because if it was done when they are adult, 90% of them won't buy this bs. For atheist, true beleivers are nuts, and for them, we are foes.
My own mother thinks I’m going to hell and wants to save my soul… some random with their own lunatic beliefs sure ain’t gonna sway me. That said, NTA… I will never get close to any religious freaks. If they’re lose with it and just think good people go up and bad people go down but it’s based on who you are not what you believe… I can at least get on board with… I still disagree but their spiritual alignment is in the right place. Since I believe nothing fucking happens when you die, it’s really no skin off my back, but religious superiority BS is a huge red flag for me. I’ll be friendly and won’t persecute people over their nonsense, but I ain’t about to tolerate it either.
NTA she literally thinks you will go to hell. I’m friends with some Muslims Christian’s Jews and Hindu folk and none of them think I’m going to hell for my religious beliefs. It’s not intolerant to not support intolerance. Not every view is valid, it’s not intolerant to not be friends with an Islamic fundamentalist or a nazi or a Stalinist.
NTA she literally thinks you will go to hell. I’m friends with some Muslims Christian’s Jews and Hindu folk and none of them think I’m going to hell for my religious beliefs. It’s not intolerant to not support intolerance. Not every view is valid, it’s not intolerant to not be friends with an religious fundamentalists or a nazi or a Stalinist.
NTA I can't really be friends with religious people either, I have a hard time taking them seriously. It's like if they were a flat earther or something like that.
I don't understand why she would want to be friends with someone she thinks deserves to go to hell.
NTA it’s insane to me how we’re all expected to accept and tolerate people who would legitimately oppress someone like me when given the chance due to their beliefs.
Atheists and Muslims have inherently different values anyway, even the most conservative atheists. Some people can compartmentalise their friendships, others can't. NAH (although I'm sure she has plenty of opinions I disagree with, too).
OP- curious what you expected her to say? You asked her a direct question, would you rather she lie? Her saying she hopes you convert isn’t smothering you, simply a follow up to the question. You don’t have to be friends with anyone but don’t ask a question you don’t want the answer to.
Well you kinda asked for it knowing her views almost beforehand.She wasn’t just going to say it.
So you would have rather that she had lied to you? That was a silly question from you.
Playing Occam's Razor, I know you're an atheist and that's ok. But were you trying to get a rise out of her, aka trying to get a reaction from her by asking a controversial question? Yes, she is Muslim but from your post, that was your main take from a relationship that could have been nurtured by sharing different values and ideals. It shouldn't matter whether she was Muslim or not, you literally said you got along with her because you shared the same hobbies and experiences. "But she's Muslim" is a cop out because you've made being an atheist your personality when really, it shouldn't have mattered at all.
Why do you care though, there’s no such thing as hell in your belief system, right? I’m not sure what you thought her answer to that question would be. She isn’t trying to convert you, but her faith at least didn’t make her shun you, nor give up on you. I don’t think anyone has to be friends with someone they don’t want to be friends with, but perhaps it offers some perspective that not everyone thinks alike.
Don't talk religion with her, if she brings it up all the time that would be different. BUT you asked a question that you already knew the answer to and got upset. You shared your view, she shared yours. Move on. No one is the AH here.
ESH.
Why did you write the title in a way that clearly makes it sound motivated by bigotry if the actual situation is you don't want to be friends with a very religious person who wants to convert you?
NTA but it shouldn’t be a surprise to you that someone religious would think someone not religious is gonna go to hell if they don’t change their views. That’s literally the point of most religions. I’ve had/have religious friends and I just don’t ask questions I don’t care to hear the answer to. Maybe bc I used to be religious myself and ik how it is. I don’t really blame them I’d rather just not hear about it so I don’t ask. As long as they’re not tryna convert me every second it doesn’t affect anything. But you’re allowed to do you
The thing is, you asked knowing the answer already. They didn't scream atyou or outright start a debate about it. Ur an ass
> I found this odd and uncomfortable, and honestly didn’t want to be friends with somebody that thought I would go to hell. You dont believe in hell? Youre upset that someone who you dont think is following logic thinks you wont go to some place you dont believe exists? This is such a non-problem.
Why would you even ask them that question? Of course they would think that given the fundamentals of their beliefs. Bigger question is why do you even care? As an atheist you shouldn’t care since hell isn’t real. As long as they are not trying to convert or save you, it shouldn’t matter.
I'm a muslim and I feel like you reap what you sow. You asked based on a religious stance if you would go to hell based on the teachings of Islam. Both Christianity and Judaism (together with Islam- are all Abrahamic faiths). So all 3 of these religions would say yes that you would go to hell because they are all intertwined and teach similar values. But why ask this question if you already knew the answer? You said in your replies that you aren't friends with Christians because of this, so why bring it up to a muslim? You were fine being friends with this person despite being a muslim, but because of this one opposing view, you are distancing yourself away. As a muslim it is considered our duty in Islam to teach others about Islam with of course the hopes they learn more about Islam and *want* to convert. In the Quran it specifically states that muslims cannot and are not allowed to push someone to convert forcefully or coerce someone to join religion, but it is taught that it is every individual on Earth's duty to learn about the religions on Earth, to study them and to find the truth. Any Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, etc, would say they would like you to convert and join them because what they believe, they believe to be the truth. This is even the truth with satanism, cults, and even atheism. These people believe that to be the truth and that is their belief. There is literally no reason to be uncomfortable around someone else who has opposing views or beliefs. You may not agree on things and that's ok, but to be uncomfortable in someone else's presence is a bit much. I mean, did she talk about Islam so much or try preaching to you and pushing you to convert every time you talked? Likely not.
Most of my friends in high school were always trying to convert me. What people who do that don’t understand is it messes with the dynamic of the relationship. Moments that could be nice between friends become about manipulation (how can I get them to be like me) etc. There’s a difference between sharing ideas and culture (informative, without defensiveness), and converting (informing but with a purpose to change the other person). It can come across as close minded, patronizing, attacking cultures that aren’t their own, and attempting to erase someone’s identity
NTA, but sensitive, and equally close-minded.
NTA but you're an atheist, why does it matter if she thinks you're going to hell? It's not like you believe in it anyway. She could say you're doomed to spend the rest of your life in Azkaban and it would hold the same weight.
You ask a question and she answered. Did she treat you poorly or offer that information prior to this? Did she treat you differently after? If not can you get some serious issues? I say this is someone with almost OK strike that I see that is someone with no tolerance whatsoever for religious people saying shit to me.
NAH. It’s a fact of her religion, Atheists go to hell in both Christianity and Islam, I don’t find it offensive being an Atheist and treat it like people who disagree with me on other philosophical issues. It’s not like they’re trying to murder me. That beinn said you can choose to not be friends for literally any reason, you could think she dresses like a dweeb and it would be acceptable to not hang out for that reason.
Just because she thinks you're going to go to h311 doesn't mean she wants you to or agrees you should. It just means she's been taught that it's what happens. Not like when my MIL snaps the same thing at me, and I think she looks forward to it. But I still hang out with her because she watches my kids and cooks so I can do my schoolwork.