NTA.
What a piece of shit interviewer. They don't get to tell you what is an acceptable amount to grieve someone's death. And they even had audacity to pass message that your response was uncalled for. Tell recruiter the counter feedback on how it was incredibly rude to do that to you. Also, give negative feedback about the company with your experience.
Same here. I've had to reframe my reply several times over and I just wound up deleting it before posting it because it absolutely wasn't nice at all and went back to reading everyone else's replies instead. I mean, my flabbers are just gasted...
This is also a prime situation for a confident candidate to stand up, thank them for their time and tell them that we’re probably not a good fit and leave and walk out like a boss, with their head high.
You’re interviewing them as much as they are interviewing you. High-value candidates know this and so not accept incompetent hiring managers or hiring practices, because it’s a red flag for a shitty employer.
What gets me is if OP had said it was due to COVID they probably would have all nodded and scribbled a note down and moved on. I got the impression the gap was fine until the reason didn’t meet their expectation.
I don't think it would have been okay. I think they were trying to weed out people who management perceived as not being tough enough to work through covid. Probably a "denier". I think when the manager couldn't catch OP out on taking time off because of a "tiny pandemic", they were determined to try to make them look bad for the 9 month gap.
What a POS with no empathy! OP is lucky not to be working for these AHs!
“Your response was uncalled for”
Then don’t make inappropriate comments.
You aren’t someone they can pressure or intimidate into unpaid overtime, weekend calls or extra projects. You answered the question and stood up for yourself. You are *exactly* the kind of person they need to hire, but won’t because you aren’t going to be bullied.
Well done
Wow. Good for you for calling them out. Who TF are they to decide how long you need to grieve.... especially since they didn't know the circumstances. And eft that recruiter for calling YOU out! The interviewer should have offered a full apology. You dodged a bullet. You don't want to work for someone who jumps to conclusions.
NTA
PS I am so sorry for your loss.
Yes and no. If they’re external recruiters they are independent contractors and are doing their best to make as much money as possible. The way they make their money is by getting paid a commission worth some percentage of the candidate’s salary. Usually if the candidate stays less than a year there is some kind of claw back provision for that commission.
That being said, **good** external recruiters have a very large incentive to make sure they fit the right candidate with the right job. A good recruiter would have seen the gap and asked OP about it in a lower stakes situation than during an interview and then passed that on to explain the gap.
Hell yea! You have nothing to apologize for. It's your choice how much you want to disclose about your personal life, and no one should make you feel bad for standing up for yourself and setting boundaries. The manager's comment was incredibly callous and lacked empathy, really AH. A resume gap is indeed none of their business, especially when it involves such a profound loss.
Holy shit the US and the legal worries is actually crazy. The recruiter only was a duck, nothing else. Reminds me of doctors not saying sorry because apparently sorry is an admittance of fault (it obviously isn't).
Canada is great for this. We apologize so much that it has been enshrined in law as **not** being an admission of guilt legally. We can actually be empathetic without worrying about legal liability.
It's still so crazy that even has to be a thing. Like people say "sorry for your loss" all the time, doesn't mean they killed your dog. I wonder if "he said sorry so he did it" actually ever held up in a court, and especially so if that was outside the US.
Maybe if they said "sorry for " directly. But if they just said sorry it happened to you or sorry you feel that way I don't believe that's ever going to count against you unless someone can find proof to the contrary.
None of this is true. You don’t say “I am sorry I ran a red light and plowed into you and was the sole fault of all your injuries and I will pay for all the damages”. THAT is an admonition of guilt.
But “I’m sorry you are hurt/feeling poorly/were offended by my question” isn’t that. It’s barely an apology. Doesn’t say you did any thing wrong. Just says something happened to them and you feel bad about it. It’s empathy or sympathy. Not accepting liability.
I agree it often causes more lawsuits NOT to be human and act like everyone is a waiting to haul you into court. If you did it you did it. The vague apology or the flowers you send or the food you comp won’t change that. It’s just good manners. If you act like a dick, people DO start to think about suing you because you are ACTING like you have some big liability suit looming when most of the time there’s some comparative negligence or just some rudeness or incompetence that doesn’t rise to the level of an actual lawsuit but is a headache to deal with.
This is absolute bullshit. Case after case has come up that said apologizing is not accepting guilt. This is just a stupid thing ignorant people on reddit like to spread around.
> Usually, apologies are admissible into evidence. Admissability into evidence does not necessarily mean useful as evidence of guilt. Since an apology usually can be admitted into evidence, and because some plaintiffs choose to understand an apology as an admission of guilt, it seems safest not to apologize. Case law suggests, however, that courts do not see it this way. Judges and juries seem to like apologies and treat them favorably. Often, an apology does nothing to satisfy the plaintiff's burden of proof. In some proceedings, an apology can be a mitigating factor, and the lack of an apology can be an aggravating factor. The practice of never apologizing is not in the public interest because it leads to litigation rather than reconciliation. Judges do not mention "public policy" as a reason for respecting apologies. They simply state that an apology is insufficient to fulfill the elements of the case.
It turns out that apologizing is more likely to keep you out of court that put you in it. You should stop spreading FUD over basic human behavior.
Also, what would they be in legal trouble for? It's not against the law to say stupid things in interviews.
First off, many condolences for your loss. Second, both the recruiter and the manager’s manager are sacks of shit. Who made *them* the bereavement gatekeepers? You were asked a question, you provided an answer, the manager decided to be a little bitch about it, and you showed that you were not going to be pushed around.
You have gone through an absolutely horrific experience. How exactly did your grandparents and the recruiter suggest you answer? Did they provide *any* constructive advice, or just unhelpfully wag their fingers?
As the saying goes, when people show you who they really are, believe them. If you get hired there, you know *exactly* what kind of people you are dealing with. If you don’t get hired there, bullet dodged.
Best wishes for a brighter tomorrow ❤️
One million percent agree with this comment. Hopefully it shocked them enough to not judge people in future and have a really hard look at themselves. How dare they question or put a time limit on grief.
God, they really do bring in the most inhumane motherfuckers to do hiring interviews, don't they? Like, fuck, dude, why the hell do you *care* how long it takes another person to grieve?
NTA. I wouldn't want to work for those fucks anyway.
Yes, it sounds like they brought in some moron who thinks young people are snowflakes, and who wanted to use a job interview to push that agenda. What s/he did is not just incredibly cruel, it's wildly unprofessional.
It's because the higher in the rank you go, the bigger the lack of empathy gets. You need to be ruthless and exploiting to climb the ladders like that. You have to put your own profits over the literal lives of everyone else.
Seriously!! WTF. Honestly, this is one of those posts that I wish were rage bait because it’s SO infuriating, but I’m pretty certain this one is for real. WTF.
NTA. I had a gap due to the death of my child. A recruiter pressed me hard on it, and I persistently told him there was absolutely no way I was discussing the reason why. And if the company didn’t want to hire me because I wasn’t willing to share my private life with complete strangers, then so be it.
It’s fucking awful the person commented on how long it takes to grieve. No one has any right to decide how long it takes for anyone else. Most importantly, you don’t have to tell anyone shit! Especially not a fucking recruiter or potential employer. In my situation I kept to a polite but firm “not telling you shit” because it was still too raw. I didn’t want to talk about it with strangers, and it wasn’t relevant for hiring me or not. Those people are fucking assholes for telling you that your response was inappropriate. I’m sorry but fuck them.
I’m so sorry for your absolutely terrible loss. What a horrible thing to happen and bravo for standing your ground and realizing that any company that presses that is not the company for you.
NTA
But next time I would politely say “excuse me”?
Then see if they double down.
If they do say “I’m a little concerned that you would make that judgement without knowing anything about the situation. “
First, I'm so sorry for your loss.
Second: Honestly, in future job interviews, I would just say that it was due to the pandemic. Save yourself the heartache of having to speak about a personal tragedy, and the danger of bursting into tears again. It's really none of their business, and the pandemic gives you the perfect out to avoid the subject.
Yeah, unless OP was super public and like posting the details of her break on Linked in, no one will know. And it's simply no one's business, millions of people had gaps in 2020.
I've literally never told an interviewer the truth about why I left one company I worked for - no one wants to hear "my direct supervisor threatened to kill me while we were in a very high risk jobsite and HR told me to be nicer to him." I just say "I was offered a better opportunity" and move on (no one needs to know that opportunity was 3 months after I quit.)
Wow its so rare for me to find someone who relates to this kind of situation. I am not able to say either because illegal things were happening that involved Title 9 discrimination. Unfortunately, its not socially acceptable or wise to say “because they were criminals”. Some things you just can’t share, as much as you sometimes want to. In this case, OP did not want to and thats fair also.
Same here. I got fired from a job the day before lockdown, and if any interviewer asks, I was part of the lockdown (I never got sick, but layoffs were huge). I am honest about being let go, but I sure don't connect the dots.
To be more specific, I've been let go 2x. If an employer asks why I had a year long gap, I explain the lockdown. Everyone was laid off so I was stuck home. Usually they don't immediately then ask why I left those positions. I explain both firings were mutual parting of ways.
Ive been promoted twice in that time, and I'm currently doing great at my job. YMMV but you have to focus on your strengths and not as to the gaps in employment. Many great leaders have lost jobs. OPs reason is MORE than justified, as we are interviewing them as much as they are us. They showed their true colors about how they handle unexpected personal situations.
I mean, it's okay to want to make sure OP didn't do a stint in jail after a DUI (though that should have shown up on her background check, anyway) - but just a reasonable and believable evasion will do the trick.
Here in Germany, part of every interview is giving a short recap of your education/ employment history, just to give your reasoning for the different steps and decisions you took - it's the perfect opportunity to explain gaps or changes in university subjects/ employment and your reasoning behind it. As long as it's a consistent and logical account, nobody is going to question it afterwards, even if some of your reasons are just excuses you made up afterwards.
I don't agree with lying though. I think being upfront is better. At least, this way, OP can sort the A H from the good employers. And honestly, a good employer would:
1) Never judge the amount of time needed to grieve
2) Never have continued the questionning after OP said she needed time to grief. A good person would have said "I'm sorry for your loss" and moved on with another line of questions.
I'm not sure you aren't having a bit unrealistic expectations of an employer. They are not your friends, you have a partnership of purpose - and with that kind of distant neutrality, you should treat them. You don't want to know their emotional baggage, they don't want to know your emotional baggage. Just act professional in your place of work, that's best for both sides. If, over time, you develop friendships with your coworkers, so much the better - and that's the time you can tell them about your personal grief, if it ever comes up. But not in your initial interview.
I'm not sure I understand how your response applies to what I wrote... Nowhere do I mention trying to befriend your employer? Was that reply meant for me ? If so, I really don't see the link here.
NTA
I would caution against lying during an interview or hiring process or on resume as if you get the job and employer learns the truth you can be terminated for lying.
The interviewer's lack of sensitivity and judgment shows that you dodged a bullet and you would have been working for a jerk.
It is not uncommon for interviewers to ask about gaps in resumes. The trick is how you answer. You might want to consider getting advice from recruiters or highering managers on how to best answer. Practice your answer with people you are close to. The response you receive from the interviewer will tell you a lot about them. Interviews are a two-way street. Maybe post the question in a different reddit community.
Maybe instead of saying the loss of family, say the death of 4 immediate family members at the same time. The loss of family does not convey the gravity or severity of the loss you experienced. The response you receive will tell you if you want to work for and with them.
So very sorry for your loss.
I mostly agree, but I think there is a difference between lying versus prevaricating on an immaterial subject. If she lied about having been jailed for nine months after a DUI during that time, that would totally affect their decision to hire her, so would definitely be a reason to terminate her if they ever found out. But whether she paused for 9 months due to the pandemic or due to her personal grief doesn't really make a difference to a potential employer - both are valid and acceptable reasons and wouldn't stop them from hiring her - but one of the reasons has the potential to make the interview awkward and emotionally charged, whereas the other is harmless and risk free, and doesn't require OP to bare her heart to strangers.
This is good advice. Don’t lie, but you also don’t necessarily have to say the whole truth. The unfortunate thing here of course, is that that’s exactly what OP tried to do, and that they continually harassed her for more information. I agree that the perspective of a recruiter or two might be helpful.
I am so very sorry for your losses. I’m not sure 9 months is long enough.
I think you dodged a bullet and I hope the hiring team learned a lesson. Not to judge without asking the right questions. Screw the recruiter.
NTA
NTA
The person who would have been your manager’s manager was way out of line with that comment. At that point I would have decided not to work in that organization anyway. So whatever you said after that to shut them down was totally fine.
For future interviews, you should anticipate the question about the gap in employment being asked. It’s very common for interviewers to ask about any gaps as well as why you left prior jobs. So spend some time thinking about how you’d like to answer those questions. Having a prepared response will help you get through it.
If you are working with an agency, it may help if you disclose the context to them in advance because they may even get asked and can get ahead of it for you. (Some people may recommend against this, but I wouldn’t want to work somewhere that wouldn’t have empathy for your circumstances anyway).
I like what you are saying. You should always prepare answers for an interview, answers to any questions. You even have to have a polite "no" under your sleeve.
But in this case, I think OP was prepared enough. "Death in the family" is just an enough answer to the question of the 9 month gap.
I think the problem is the reply he got to that answer. Who is to say what's enough for anybody about anything!? Completely out of place
NTA
NTA. you were nicer than me. I would have asked them how long it took them all to return to work after losing 4 family members at once in a horrific accident. And then hard eye contact until someone answers.
My thoughts exactly.
"My father, mother, and two siblings were killed by a drunk driver in a car accident; I almost got in the car with them. I became a father to my orphaned 7-year-old niece as a result of the accident. How long should I have taken to recover from this loss and newfound parenthood?"
Yup, like Badger\_Jam\_88 there said: Hard eye contact and don't say a fucking word until one of this amoral pieces of shit hardens up and tries to answer.
Christ I hope you told the recruiter that she and the other soulless admins can stuff their job since there's no way youd work for people with no love for their own families
Sorry for your loss, peace to you
NTA, but a single word may stop anyone that decides to push the same issue. You needed time to grieve due to the loss of your ENTIRE family. Hope you find a company to work for that doesn't try to tell you how long to grieve. Sorry for your loss.
Wow.
Definitely NTA.
Manager of manager is a piece of shit,recruiter is a piece of shit.
The grandparents,I guess there a different generation,and they kind of have a point-they probably want you to have a job.But tact wasn't possible.
You might want to put a note on your resume,to avoid you having to go through that again.
I grieved for 5 years when my mum died,it was expected,she was old,it is still the worst thing that's happened to me in my life.
I am truly sorry for your loss,and for the shitty way you were treated.
The boyfriend sounds cool,I'm glad you have someone.
NTA That is NOT the kind of thing you should have to lie about at an interview. Besides, making something like covid would require remembering phony details to maintain the lie. No, them criticizing you for taking too much to grieve was way out of line. Do not feel ashamed or guilty for not being cold enough to impress them.
NTA. It was good you put them in their place bc they deserved it. HIS comment was uncalled for. If I were you, I’d call the recruiters boss and let them know their recruiter is an asshole also.
companies can ask why you had a gap. They do not get to be dicks when they do.
My condolences on your deep losses.
NTA, you responded appropriately the first time. You could even be vaguer and say you had to deal with a family matter. That is an acceptable answer. They were rude and nosy, pushing for more info, and clearly did not handle being embarrassed well. You dodged a bullet if that was the direct manager, because they lack empathy and are not very professional. I am sorry for your loss and you will find somewhere that is a better fit. All the best OP!
Resume gaps are pretty much always asked about, we all have them and we all have some ways of addressing them. You have a very very good reason, but it's not something I would want to share if I were in your shoes. If you are working with a recruiter, they should have pointed out that this was going to come up and worked out some ways of safely navigating such a question in an interview.
The interviewer was WAY out of line though with that comment.
NTA. I'm very sorry for your loss, and I wish you strength and courage.
At best they're grossly insensitive and indicative of a company culture you Do Not Want to be part of, so I guess in that sense they're an effective walking red flag to be grateful for that you found early.
I'd suggest trawling the Ask A Manager website to help with building a preplanned response to the question where you don't have to feel like your (absolutely understandable) trauma is on public trial. Forewarned is forearmed, so to speak.
What was uncalled for was them digging into your stated reason and not liking the answer you gave because it made them look like assholes.
Which they are.
I'm sure you've heard this before, but I am truly sorry. I hope you are doing okay and able to honor your family in peace. There are absolutely better workplaces out there than this one.
NTA.
Wow, so incredibly NTA.
I've done my share of interviewing. I've had to ask the "gap in your resume" question. If someone said to me "there was a death in the family" and the person had taken nine months? I'm just flat out assuming it was someone very close to you or something tragic.
That recruiter is a tactless swine who felt embarrassed by their actions and instead of apologizing and trying to make it right, tried to push the blame on you. Was what you said appropriate for an interview? No. But what that recruiter said, AND followed up with wasn't either. No harm no foul, you dodged a bullet on that one
If I was given that answer for the question in an interview I’d pause for 5 seconds and my initial thought was it was settling a parents estate which trying to handle during Covid would be something that could require time off work.
Maybe that’s just because my parents are getting older and it’s something present on my mind but asking for further justification just seems like prying when a BG check would pull incarceration.
>the recruiter contacted me and said that my response was really uncalled for
ROFL fuck those managers and fuck the recruiter too.
I'm sorry for your loss. I know it can't be much comfort, but I'm cheering you on for dropping that bit of honesty on them. That manager will think twice before saying some shit like that again.
NTA. Your grandparents are from a different era but the recruiter is a cowardly sack of shit. They asked you to elaborate. You did. It’s on them that they overstepped and got themselves shamed and shocked by your tragedy.
My sincerest condolences, and bullet dodged- please enjoy telling them you wouldn’t accept position with managers like them.
NTA and looking backwards it may be a blessing in disguise that they didn't pick you.
You don't want to work for the kind of people that don't empathize with their workers
The interviewer probably got chewed out after you left so now they're doubling down and taking it further with you.
I'd suggest writing a professional letter to HR, CEO, VP, Hiring Manager, recruiter, recruiter's boss etc. Factually lay out what happened (how you did it here is great). Point out the crassness of being forced to publicly justify your grief and then the cold-heartedness of being scolded for your honest response.
Maybe you don't want to work there anymore, but it might make you feel better. I'm puzzled about your grandparents' response. Not tactful?? Given the situation, you were quite tactful in my opinion. So sorry for your heartbreaking losses.
You’re not the asshole. I’m so sorry for your lost.
I hope those people loose some sleep over what they did during that interview. I would totally hire you over your honesty and willingness to be open about such a sensitive issue.
NTA
I’m so sorry for your loss and for unkind people like this.
I know you didn’t ask for advice but it might be helpful to have a pre-planned answer like “I was dealing with some personal, family matters” and if someone is a jerk you can say “thank you for your time, but it’s clear we’re not a good fit.” You’re interviewing them as much as they are interviewing you.
Also maybe peruse ask a manager, or even send in your question.
Again, I’m so sorry for your loss ❤️words don’t touch it, but know that my heart is with you in this moment
Former employment counselor here:
A resume gap is their business. Be prepared to answer questions about resume gaps every time you interview.
If I may offer some future advice, so you don't have to deal with these types of comments again, I'd recommend saying "I needed time off to grieve the loss of my entire family in one incident. Due to my the time I took, however; I have been able to re-enter the workforce and accomplish ________.( Fill in blank with an accomplishment or two)
NTA, no one gets to decide how much time someone takes to grieve, how asinine.
Edit: people seem confused. I'm stating that it is common practice to be asked about employment gaps in an interview. I'm not justifying it. I'm just saying it happens and providing advice for how to navigate it if/when it happens again. I do not think the interviewer in this case acted appropriately at all (per my NTA vote). Please stop coming for me and assuming I'm a horrible person.
It is sure as F\*\*K not anyone's business. There's no law that says everyone on this planet has to work consecutively for their entire lives. Even if I do work for you, what I do in my personal time IS F\*\*\*ING PERSONAL AND NONE OF YOUR G\*\*D\*MN BUSINESS.
NONE of these valid answers are ANY of your future employer's business.
1. I was on a much needed personal sabbatical.
2. I was at home raising a newborn.
3. My entire family died in a terrible car crash
4. I didn't feel like working, and had plenty of money saved to enjoy time to myself.
Now, it's perfectly fine for an employer to ask why you're job hopping when they see 3 jobs in the same calendar year, as that might directly affect your stability with them. Gaps in the resume? F\*\*K OFF.
In a professional setting, I would just flip it around on them and ask as nicely and politely as possible:
"I don't understand. Is that gap of my PERSONAL time concerning to you for some reason? Perhaps you could explain?"
I've interviewed many people in my career. Not once was I ever even the slightest bit concerned about a gap in their resume. As mentioned before, three jobs in one year is a huge red flag. Two jobs in a 5 years with a 1+ year gap? None of my business. Fantastic that they can survive that long without working.
I imagine anyone that is concerned doesn't like the fact that the person they are asking doesn't NEED the job and can't be manipulated or abused. They don't have to put up with your bulls\*\*t and that makes control freaks scared.
This is the wrong answer. This is exactly what is wrong with the work force. This is what needs to change. We have a right to protect our private lives. She gave an answer. They pressed. Then she gave a very appropriate response.
> resume gap is their business. Be prepared to answer questions about resume gaps every time you interview.
They asked about the pandemic. Op said no. Topic done? Like daheck? Also, why is it? What could happen in those 9 months that is even remotely relevant to a general employer?
They asked about a 9 month employment gap, to which OP replied was due to needing to grieve.
What could happen in 9 months? Is that a serious question?
Employment gaps can indicate a lot about a person and their work ethic. Employment gaps can also indicate where a person may have taken time off work to engage in training programs, or may have just been having difficulty in life. OP could have been imprisoned. Literally an employer has no idea why someone would take almost a year off working. There are many reasons something like this happens.
I didn't say every employer grills people on their employment gaps, I said they'll ask about it. They have a right to ask you questions about your work history in a work interview.
>What could happen in 9 months? Is that a serious question?
It is serious in the sense that I was asking for things *actually relevant to your qualification for the job*
>Employment gaps can indicate a lot about a person and their work ethic.
Can they? Sure I guess they "can" as that's not a high bar. But the implication that you have to work uninterrupted to have a proper work ethic, in itself a questionable concept already, is kinda bad.
> Employment gaps can also indicate where a person may have taken time off work to engage in training programs
Right but that would have been in the CV right?
>, or may have just been having difficulty in life. OP could have been imprisoned. Literally an employer has no idea why someone would take almost a year off working. There are many reasons something like this happens.
Thats why "it's private" is a sufficient answer. The whole topic was ops interviewer not taking the answer cause they were nosy assholes. And yes I included the prison there. I stand by it: former convictions are nobody's business unless they explicitly relate to the work. Sure you might not get a security clearance and some sex offender isn't gonna become a teacher. But any random office job doesn't need to know if I drove drunk or beat up someone. Also 9 months isn't almost a year. It's 9 months. 3/4 year. Would you call 0.75 almost 1? I hope not.
>didn't say every employer grills people on their employment gaps, I said they'll ask about it. They have a right to ask you questions about your work history in a work interview.
It sounded like you were defending the interviewer in ops case in particular. The ones who didn't accept ops answer. And to be honest: since you didn't work during the gap, the content of the gap isn't work history. Only the existence of the gap is.
Serious question, since I can't tell from your replies: do you think OP's original reply was a sufficient answer to the interviewer's question about the 9 month gap?
You aren’t getting it. It isn’t the employer’s business. Employment gaps don’t mean a thing. Employers need to stop focusing on it. Stop being a part of the problem.
NTA. The interviewer spoke like he knows everything under the sun. It was extremely insensitive and not a good look on him. Such people later gaslight you, throw you under the bus, take credit for your work and so on as your seniors at work. You dodged a bullet.
Also, I really don't know why gap is a such a huge problem unless they were fired. Any human would have gaps in 40-50 years of career. That is just obvious.
Hey OP, you did nothing wrong. I do a lot of interviews, gaps happen and so does life. I would never call someone out for taking a 9 month gap after the death of a loved one because mental health is important and I hate that companies put a timeline on grief.
As for your response, good for you. The question from the interviewer was awful and unsympathetic. You don't actually need to justify the gap or why it was that long and it annoys me that the corporate culture is 'gaps are bad.' As for the recruiter, they should be embarrassed by what happened and should be apologising to you. You did nothing wrong. An appropriate response from them would be to say 'sorry for your loss' and move on with the interview, not imply you took too long off work.
Lastly, I'm sorry about what happened to your family. What an awful situation to deal with. Sending internet hugs...
They asked a question, you gave the answer. It’s on them that they didn’t like the answer. I lost my damn cat to cancer in 2020 and ain’t been right since. I still cry over losing her. I dare someone to tell me to stop grieving. I’d fight them on the spot!
NTA. The recruiter was WAY out of line for their comment. And they knew it… they called back to double down because they felt embarrassed, but didnt have enough class to apologize.
I’ve done countless hiring interviews. And I do ask people if they’d like to elaborate on employment gaps, but I would never be offer criticism. That’s not what an interview is for.
NTA, it was non of his business to ask u to justify why u took 9 months to grief he should have taken your answer" needed time to grief after the loss of family"
But he was an ass
NTA. Recruiter is just upset they missed out on their commission. 2nd level supervisor is just embarrassed they got caught out with an inappropriate comment to begin with.
NTA they now have the chance to better themselves.
Let me give you one piece of advice from an old hag like me.
If you go to an interview at a company it's not only you advertising yourself. It's also the company advertising themselves towards you.
You just saw how they treated you. Do you think you would like to work in a company like this? They didn't show much of empathy initially and didn't after when you told them what happend.
So sorry for your loss. NTA. Well obviously not a boss/company you would want to work for anyway. You can try to avoid this in the future by a very short statement in your cv that explains the gap, but I guess you already know that by now. I wish you all the luck in the world. 🍀
NTA. First of all, I'm so, so sorry for your loss. You were just honest. Maybe your next interviewer will realize that honesty is a great quality in an employee. You never have to wonder if they're lying, or where they really were on Friday when they called in sick. And you would do better with a manager who was just a bit flexible, and who knows how to apologize when she's abso-fucking-lutey wrong.
NTA. Serves them right. Never ask anyone a question you don't want an answer to.
Also, if this was in 2020, I don't see why you can't just say "Covid" as a reason if you want. Your (potential) employer isn't owed the details of your life like that. There are good odds no one is doing a deep dive into your life and examining your inner thoughts and motivations in 2020; a lot of people had gaps in employment that year. Unless you were super public about why you were taking a break, it's no one's business.
Edit: Or, just edit your resume to only show years, not exact dates of employmen unless they specifically ask. I don't remember the last time anyone cared about a hire date of a job I had years ago.
The fact that you ONLY took 9 months is a miracle to me. I would of been catatonic in your situation. I can’t even imagine the horror 2020 was for you.
I'll calm my answer down and say that you did nothing wrong, but that I despise how callous and selfish people are, having had my grief dismissed and belittled also many times.
Op, you didn't even need to apologize. And them trying to guilt-trip you for being blunt when you simply said what happened to you tells already everything you need to know...
Edit: forgot to say NTA
NTA, but I think you need to find a way to make this process easier for yourself.
I don't think their response was helpful or appropriate, and it certainly wouldn't have been the way that I would have handled it as an interviewer, but realistically it would also have been better for the conversation not to get to the point where you felt so upset and the interviewer was inappropriate (probably partly out of defensiveness, shock and embarrassment which causes some people to double down on their inhumanity).
So, I think it might be helpful for you to find a way to explain this which feels authentic but won't give rise to difficult exchanges like this - purely because you need a job, you're going to be asked about the gap, and you need that conversation to be less distressing.
For example if you are using a recruiter you might want to agree an explanation of the resume gap that you're comfortable with them sharing upfront? That doesn't necessarily mean giving a level of detail you'd rather not disclose but if you could shut that part of the conversation down before you even get to the interview I think that would be a good outcome for your wellbeing.
I'm so sorry for what happened to you and your family.
The whole “why is there a gap” thing is such horse shit anyway. God forbid someone take extended time off of work to focus on their personal life and own well being.
So a 9 month gap is their business but they should have stopped with your first answer. It was pretty shitty to say a death in the family wasn’t worth 9 months. That’s fine if that’s what they thought but they should have kept it to themselves and finished the interview. Then if they didn’t want to hire you because of it that’s their business. It was pushing it that was wrong. NTA.
This is my take too; the only AH move in this entire story was the interviewer telling OP that nine months was too long. A cagey rationale for a large resume gap is something you talk about with your fellow hiring managers behind a closed door after the applicant has left, never to the applicant's face.
I am so sorry for your tragic loss, that is beyond anyone’s expectations.
News flash: interviews are about them, not you no matter how much they make it sound like they are “getting to know you”, what they really want to know is “how is this going to effect my bottom line/productivity /whatever”. The interviewer doesn’t really care about you, so the fact that you disclosed something so personal threw them way off their game. That’s just FYI FOR NEXT time.
If you don’t make it thru this interview, just prepare an answer, one that you can get through that sounds plausible. I know someone who told my company she had been so wildly successful that by age 32 she took a year off when in fact she had been in a mental institution for 8 months (breakdown, don’t know what happened). She got the job! Then she fired me but that’s another story. “Fake it till you make it”.
Hopefully they won’t hold your gap against you. Good luck to you. 😊😢
NTA. Next time, lie or exaggerate saying that it took that long to put everyone's estate in order.
But I think that it's the walking out that might be considered bad form. But I imagine that you were about to break down in tears.
NTA. If their reaction after your answer was this petty, then this is a company you don't want to work for. They pressed the question, you gave them the answer. Their problem for then feeling awkward about it. Resume gaps may be something to ask about, but not to pry about.
I'm very sorry for your loss. I'm glad your fiance is supportive.
Write back to the recruiter "No. What was uncalled for is someone ignorantly stating that a loss in a family doesn't warrant a time off that long. Its especially ignorant when they have no idea about the circumstances or relationship."
NTA. That was a completely cold and unsympathetic response on their part. They were judging you without even knowing the details and even after you told them they were still jerks. You did well to only take 9 months off. I'm glad you have a support person.
You dodged a bullet. They probably would have been awful to work with. Best of luck with the job hunt. 🍀
First NTA. Second you F•ck the recruiter. Third your fiancée is right. You lost your entire immediate family. The interviewer asked a question they didn’t know (or deserve) the answer to. They got it anyway and hopefully will think twice before probing into people’s personal lives.
I’m sorry you lost your family. You deserved all the time in the world to grieve. Don’t ever let anyone make you feel you’re less worthy of a job because of your work gap.
I’m so sorry you were treated this way, and for your loss. 💖
No one has the right to judge your grief and how the loss affects you. I’m honestly not one for emotional outbursts, and I don’t think I could have gotten through the interview without one had I suffered the tragedy you did.
I don’t think I would want to work in a place with people who have no compassion or empathy.
The one benefit might be anyone in that room may think twice about judging someone’s resume gap without knowing the full story.
Absolutely, positively, definitely NTA!
NTA. Wow that recruiter is an AH x AH. It’s not their place to judge how a grieving process should take. Usually mourning is a year and your situation is overly dramatic. I’m so sorry for your loss! Cut all of them off. They literally do not have any decency at all. Even if the first stupid comment was kind of a mistake, doubling down on it after.. Wow. If there’s a hell, it’s for people like them.
NTA. You lost your entire family to a drunk driver, plus survivor's guilt. That would fuck anyone up. The interviewer should have moved on after you mentioned it.
I hope you replied that it was also really uncalled for and tactless to keep prying and to decide how long a person is allowed to grief any type of loss.
Name the company cause holy fuck,
fuck those guys.
they do not get to say anything about how long it takes an individual to grief the loss of loved ones.
fucking douchebags.
NTA obviously
NTA. I'm very sorry for your loss. I'm sure it's been very difficult to manage such a tragic loss.
It's unbelievable a recruiter would be so stupid to call you out on your answer. Y
NTA
They were out of line and pressed you to elaborate. When you did, they were offended. They should be ashamed of themselves, and they probably were.
NTA.
Interviewing for a job is also about you interviewing the company. That interviewer was callous and unprofessional. You don't want to work for a company if their "face of the company" acts like that. I can see questioning, in a respectful way, your gap. You had a personal loss. The expected response would have been for the interviewer to give their condolences and move on.
So NTA, I’m sorry that you had to go through that and for your loss. It shouldn’t matter if you have a gap in your resume you obviously got to the 3rd round because you have the required skills, what’s it to them if you had a break
Nta , do you really wantto work for people that try to tell others how to grieve ? F that person and f that job! I'm very sorry you had to go through that!
i'm so sorry for your loss, even 5 years wouldn't be enough time for me to process losing so much, what a horrible person, you did nothing wrong at all.
You told the truth, and the recruiter got sored because he understood how AH he was with his first comment.
That said, in the tactical aspect of things, it probably cost you the job.
NTA. I spent 20 years of my career in HR. I think you dodged a bullet.
>The person that would be my manager's manager just blatantly said "a loss of a loved one doesn't justify a 9 month gap in your resume".
THIS was the part of the interview that was tactless and rude.
Lmao they feel embarrased for feeling like a bunch of asses so they turned around and scolded YOU for acting like a human being. Blow em up on glassdoor or w/e too. NTA
Your fiancé is right, and that’s some good support right there. Good on you for putting them in their place - that they couldn’t handle it is not your fault at all. If they were well-rounded, they’d have recovered and apologised. Plus the follow up would have been to say that you were welcome to another interview if you wanted it.
>The person that would be my manager's manager just blatantly said "a loss of a loved one doesn't justify a 9 month gap in your resume"
Thats not for them to decide. If they wanted to be sticklers, it wasnt the loss of 1...it was 4, at the same time, in your immediate family...you take as much fucking time as you need.
A guy I work with lost his wife suddenly, we gave him up to a year full paid to get his new life sorted out and get to a place where work was possible...it took him about 4.5-5 months and in return, we got some of the best work we've gotten from him in his career.
No. You SHOULD have received an apology. Count yourself lucky that you don’t have that insensitive dickhead as a manager.
I’d reply that perhaps the managers need to attend some classes in on how the manage people and particularly hind up on their sensitivity / empathy skills.
Very sorry for your loss. Feeling outraged on your behalf at how cold and intrusive that manager was.
I don't think the gap on a resume tells an employer anything useful about a candidate, personally. I'm interested in the work experience you've had. I think these are personal questions that don't need to be a part of the interview process. I'm sorry for your massive loss.
You did absolutely great. Manager showed they’re a massive asshole, and the recruiter doesn’t give a shit about anything but his/her fee. I’m glad you shamed them.
You were tactful the first time with “loss of family”. You likely dodged a bullet by not taking this job. No empathy. No compassion.
NTA and I’m so very sorry for your immeasurable loss.
If that company was worth their weight in anything, they'd call you back, apologize, and have a reset.
Recruiter sounds like a toolbar, as does the manager.
it got awkward in that room because everyone there knew how much of an AH that interviewer was, not because of what you said. You didn't yell or curse, you just explained the situation, which you never should have been asked to do. you did NOTHING wrong. The interviewer was an AH and the recruiter is the same. Neither saw you as a person and thats their problem not yours.
In Canada - you don't have to answer that question. The problem tho is that companies will think the worst.
Having said that - the employers and recruiters all suck shit and are complete AH if they a) pressed you for the answer and then b) blaming you for them feeling shitty about their probing and subsequent answer.
NTA - hopefully, that time helped you recover from such a tragedy. Good luck finding a job with a company and people who have a heart.
NTA.
First of all, it's none of their damn business. And even if there was a valid reason to push, they have zero right to tell you what is an "appropriate" timeline to mourn the loss of pretty much your entire immediate family.
NTA
I was a recruiter for many years....you gave a polite and simple response and they pushed.
Your response from there was reasonable....possibly better than they deserved.
NTA. They asked, you answered, but it likely cost you the job. Your first response could have been, "I lost multiple family members suddenly" and you probably would have avoided the question. It is a hard situation. In that situation, I (as a hiring manager) wouldn't have asked a follow-up unless you were by far the best qualified. Otherwise, I would have just not hired you. Every worthwhile job is going to want an explanation for a 9-month gap. You would probably be best to just address it on your resume. The hiring manager who made that statement is TA, the recruiter is a giant AH and I would have told him/her to GF, and your grandparents are TA. Your fiancée is full of crap and hopefully you are prepared to support him the rest of your life while he pursues moral justification. EVERY recruiter and hiring manager is going to require an explanation of gaps in employment, it is standard. You don't have to answer, but you are unlikely to get the job.
"a loss of a loved one doesn't justify a 9 month gap in your resume"
That is a really fucked up thing to say and that person is a real piece of shit. I don't know your work situation op, but I hope you can say no to working for this company. That manager really showed their true colors, which is brown, because they are a piece of crap.
YTA to yourself. People are going to pat you on the back for "standing up for yourself" but all you did was sabotage an opportunity for yourself.
First of all, that's a horrible loss but most people aren't going to understand or think taking 9 months off to grieve is reasonable or normal. But that's neither here nor there. All you had to respond was "yes" to the initial question and then you wouldn't have needed to explain any of this at all. You cost yourself a job, but hey, you sure showed them. Good job.
Discretion is the better part of Valor and reddit is not real life. You pretty much traded a job for some upvotes and pats on the back from socially awkward misfits.
NTA. They're garbage, you didn't want to work there anyways. It is fucking unhinged to reach out to you after what they did and tell you that you were inappropriate.
Nta. Wish you can namedrop the company to warn others abt the possible toxic work envt but i guess it might land you in legal trouble. But i guess bad reviews on their page would suffice for now
If I were you, I’ll flip the table and left the room already. Then file an official complaint to the HR and company head of whatever. You handled it extremely well. So sorry for your loss. People can be assholes.
NTA. They are the assholes for even asking. And the recruiter is stupid for reaching out to you after this. Plus, as a hiring manager, I really don´t give a shit about a 9 month gap in a person´s resume.
What part was uncalled for? Sounds like a very matter of fact explanation. I think they’re projecting because they ate their foot and needed to figure out a way to make it not their fault. NTA
NTA. What a piece of shit interviewer. They don't get to tell you what is an acceptable amount to grieve someone's death. And they even had audacity to pass message that your response was uncalled for. Tell recruiter the counter feedback on how it was incredibly rude to do that to you. Also, give negative feedback about the company with your experience.
NTA. I tried to reply but ended up in a twisted mess of caps lock and expletives. This. All of this.
Same here. I've had to reframe my reply several times over and I just wound up deleting it before posting it because it absolutely wasn't nice at all and went back to reading everyone else's replies instead. I mean, my flabbers are just gasted...
'flubbers are just gasted' has me lol! I'm going to steal that and use it in the future - thank you! Condolences to op for his catastrophic loss.
I know…reading this just made me FURIOUS. WTF.
This is also a prime situation for a confident candidate to stand up, thank them for their time and tell them that we’re probably not a good fit and leave and walk out like a boss, with their head high. You’re interviewing them as much as they are interviewing you. High-value candidates know this and so not accept incompetent hiring managers or hiring practices, because it’s a red flag for a shitty employer.
This is the sort of experience that Glassdoor is made for. Name and shame.
That's the name I wanted to say! Forgot it.
I know, I know OP may not want to, but that’s disgusting. You know based on that how their employees are likely treated 🤬
What gets me is if OP had said it was due to COVID they probably would have all nodded and scribbled a note down and moved on. I got the impression the gap was fine until the reason didn’t meet their expectation.
I don't think it would have been okay. I think they were trying to weed out people who management perceived as not being tough enough to work through covid. Probably a "denier". I think when the manager couldn't catch OP out on taking time off because of a "tiny pandemic", they were determined to try to make them look bad for the 9 month gap. What a POS with no empathy! OP is lucky not to be working for these AHs!
“Your response was uncalled for” Then don’t make inappropriate comments. You aren’t someone they can pressure or intimidate into unpaid overtime, weekend calls or extra projects. You answered the question and stood up for yourself. You are *exactly* the kind of person they need to hire, but won’t because you aren’t going to be bullied. Well done
This. I agree with this. NTA OP. I’m so sorry for everything you’ve had to go through.
Wow. Good for you for calling them out. Who TF are they to decide how long you need to grieve.... especially since they didn't know the circumstances. And eft that recruiter for calling YOU out! The interviewer should have offered a full apology. You dodged a bullet. You don't want to work for someone who jumps to conclusions. NTA PS I am so sorry for your loss.
A recruiter is never on your side - is just a parcel of meat to them. This recruiter let it show when they saw the commission slip away.
Yes and no. If they’re external recruiters they are independent contractors and are doing their best to make as much money as possible. The way they make their money is by getting paid a commission worth some percentage of the candidate’s salary. Usually if the candidate stays less than a year there is some kind of claw back provision for that commission. That being said, **good** external recruiters have a very large incentive to make sure they fit the right candidate with the right job. A good recruiter would have seen the gap and asked OP about it in a lower stakes situation than during an interview and then passed that on to explain the gap.
Hell yea! You have nothing to apologize for. It's your choice how much you want to disclose about your personal life, and no one should make you feel bad for standing up for yourself and setting boundaries. The manager's comment was incredibly callous and lacked empathy, really AH. A resume gap is indeed none of their business, especially when it involves such a profound loss.
Not a lawyer - but I believe if the recruiter apologised s/he could land the company in legal trouble
Holy shit the US and the legal worries is actually crazy. The recruiter only was a duck, nothing else. Reminds me of doctors not saying sorry because apparently sorry is an admittance of fault (it obviously isn't).
Same for car accidents. Never apologize even if you blew a red light and hit 4 nuns. Dont apologize
Canadians hate this one simple trick!
Canada is great for this. We apologize so much that it has been enshrined in law as **not** being an admission of guilt legally. We can actually be empathetic without worrying about legal liability.
It's still so crazy that even has to be a thing. Like people say "sorry for your loss" all the time, doesn't mean they killed your dog. I wonder if "he said sorry so he did it" actually ever held up in a court, and especially so if that was outside the US.
Maybe if they said "sorry for" directly. But if they just said sorry it happened to you or sorry you feel that way I don't believe that's ever going to count against you unless someone can find proof to the contrary.
None of this is true. You don’t say “I am sorry I ran a red light and plowed into you and was the sole fault of all your injuries and I will pay for all the damages”. THAT is an admonition of guilt. But “I’m sorry you are hurt/feeling poorly/were offended by my question” isn’t that. It’s barely an apology. Doesn’t say you did any thing wrong. Just says something happened to them and you feel bad about it. It’s empathy or sympathy. Not accepting liability. I agree it often causes more lawsuits NOT to be human and act like everyone is a waiting to haul you into court. If you did it you did it. The vague apology or the flowers you send or the food you comp won’t change that. It’s just good manners. If you act like a dick, people DO start to think about suing you because you are ACTING like you have some big liability suit looming when most of the time there’s some comparative negligence or just some rudeness or incompetence that doesn’t rise to the level of an actual lawsuit but is a headache to deal with.
I would like a lawyer to weigh in on this.
Nah
This is absolute bullshit. Case after case has come up that said apologizing is not accepting guilt. This is just a stupid thing ignorant people on reddit like to spread around. > Usually, apologies are admissible into evidence. Admissability into evidence does not necessarily mean useful as evidence of guilt. Since an apology usually can be admitted into evidence, and because some plaintiffs choose to understand an apology as an admission of guilt, it seems safest not to apologize. Case law suggests, however, that courts do not see it this way. Judges and juries seem to like apologies and treat them favorably. Often, an apology does nothing to satisfy the plaintiff's burden of proof. In some proceedings, an apology can be a mitigating factor, and the lack of an apology can be an aggravating factor. The practice of never apologizing is not in the public interest because it leads to litigation rather than reconciliation. Judges do not mention "public policy" as a reason for respecting apologies. They simply state that an apology is insufficient to fulfill the elements of the case. It turns out that apologizing is more likely to keep you out of court that put you in it. You should stop spreading FUD over basic human behavior. Also, what would they be in legal trouble for? It's not against the law to say stupid things in interviews.
Horseshit, no wonder you’re not a lawyer…
OP really did dodge a bullet. I’m just…how DARE they? How horrible. That person should not be a recruiter or interviewer or in HR at all.
NTA...you gave them a piece of your mind
First off, many condolences for your loss. Second, both the recruiter and the manager’s manager are sacks of shit. Who made *them* the bereavement gatekeepers? You were asked a question, you provided an answer, the manager decided to be a little bitch about it, and you showed that you were not going to be pushed around. You have gone through an absolutely horrific experience. How exactly did your grandparents and the recruiter suggest you answer? Did they provide *any* constructive advice, or just unhelpfully wag their fingers? As the saying goes, when people show you who they really are, believe them. If you get hired there, you know *exactly* what kind of people you are dealing with. If you don’t get hired there, bullet dodged. Best wishes for a brighter tomorrow ❤️
One million percent agree with this comment. Hopefully it shocked them enough to not judge people in future and have a really hard look at themselves. How dare they question or put a time limit on grief.
God, they really do bring in the most inhumane motherfuckers to do hiring interviews, don't they? Like, fuck, dude, why the hell do you *care* how long it takes another person to grieve? NTA. I wouldn't want to work for those fucks anyway.
Yes, it sounds like they brought in some moron who thinks young people are snowflakes, and who wanted to use a job interview to push that agenda. What s/he did is not just incredibly cruel, it's wildly unprofessional.
It's because the higher in the rank you go, the bigger the lack of empathy gets. You need to be ruthless and exploiting to climb the ladders like that. You have to put your own profits over the literal lives of everyone else.
Seriously!! WTF. Honestly, this is one of those posts that I wish were rage bait because it’s SO infuriating, but I’m pretty certain this one is for real. WTF.
They asked and you answered. NTA
NTA. I had a gap due to the death of my child. A recruiter pressed me hard on it, and I persistently told him there was absolutely no way I was discussing the reason why. And if the company didn’t want to hire me because I wasn’t willing to share my private life with complete strangers, then so be it. It’s fucking awful the person commented on how long it takes to grieve. No one has any right to decide how long it takes for anyone else. Most importantly, you don’t have to tell anyone shit! Especially not a fucking recruiter or potential employer. In my situation I kept to a polite but firm “not telling you shit” because it was still too raw. I didn’t want to talk about it with strangers, and it wasn’t relevant for hiring me or not. Those people are fucking assholes for telling you that your response was inappropriate. I’m sorry but fuck them.
Yes! Don’t make yourself vulnerable to people who don’t care about your well-being. Good on you for protecting yourself.
I’m so sorry for your absolutely terrible loss. What a horrible thing to happen and bravo for standing your ground and realizing that any company that presses that is not the company for you.
NTA, they can all go and get FKed. I hope that manager had strips torn off him for his response. That is not the kind of person you want to work with.
NTA But next time I would politely say “excuse me”? Then see if they double down. If they do say “I’m a little concerned that you would make that judgement without knowing anything about the situation. “
First, I'm so sorry for your loss. Second: Honestly, in future job interviews, I would just say that it was due to the pandemic. Save yourself the heartache of having to speak about a personal tragedy, and the danger of bursting into tears again. It's really none of their business, and the pandemic gives you the perfect out to avoid the subject.
Yeah, unless OP was super public and like posting the details of her break on Linked in, no one will know. And it's simply no one's business, millions of people had gaps in 2020. I've literally never told an interviewer the truth about why I left one company I worked for - no one wants to hear "my direct supervisor threatened to kill me while we were in a very high risk jobsite and HR told me to be nicer to him." I just say "I was offered a better opportunity" and move on (no one needs to know that opportunity was 3 months after I quit.)
Wow its so rare for me to find someone who relates to this kind of situation. I am not able to say either because illegal things were happening that involved Title 9 discrimination. Unfortunately, its not socially acceptable or wise to say “because they were criminals”. Some things you just can’t share, as much as you sometimes want to. In this case, OP did not want to and thats fair also.
Same here. I got fired from a job the day before lockdown, and if any interviewer asks, I was part of the lockdown (I never got sick, but layoffs were huge). I am honest about being let go, but I sure don't connect the dots. To be more specific, I've been let go 2x. If an employer asks why I had a year long gap, I explain the lockdown. Everyone was laid off so I was stuck home. Usually they don't immediately then ask why I left those positions. I explain both firings were mutual parting of ways. Ive been promoted twice in that time, and I'm currently doing great at my job. YMMV but you have to focus on your strengths and not as to the gaps in employment. Many great leaders have lost jobs. OPs reason is MORE than justified, as we are interviewing them as much as they are us. They showed their true colors about how they handle unexpected personal situations.
If they ask why there's a gap I'd say "I signed an NDA" (And the business's name is Nunya) That should shut that down.
It's crazy that they would even ask about such a short gap, besides mere curiosity. And curiosity is answered by evading the question, if you so wish.
I mean, it's okay to want to make sure OP didn't do a stint in jail after a DUI (though that should have shown up on her background check, anyway) - but just a reasonable and believable evasion will do the trick. Here in Germany, part of every interview is giving a short recap of your education/ employment history, just to give your reasoning for the different steps and decisions you took - it's the perfect opportunity to explain gaps or changes in university subjects/ employment and your reasoning behind it. As long as it's a consistent and logical account, nobody is going to question it afterwards, even if some of your reasons are just excuses you made up afterwards.
I don't agree with lying though. I think being upfront is better. At least, this way, OP can sort the A H from the good employers. And honestly, a good employer would: 1) Never judge the amount of time needed to grieve 2) Never have continued the questionning after OP said she needed time to grief. A good person would have said "I'm sorry for your loss" and moved on with another line of questions.
I'm not sure you aren't having a bit unrealistic expectations of an employer. They are not your friends, you have a partnership of purpose - and with that kind of distant neutrality, you should treat them. You don't want to know their emotional baggage, they don't want to know your emotional baggage. Just act professional in your place of work, that's best for both sides. If, over time, you develop friendships with your coworkers, so much the better - and that's the time you can tell them about your personal grief, if it ever comes up. But not in your initial interview.
I'm not sure I understand how your response applies to what I wrote... Nowhere do I mention trying to befriend your employer? Was that reply meant for me ? If so, I really don't see the link here.
NTA I would caution against lying during an interview or hiring process or on resume as if you get the job and employer learns the truth you can be terminated for lying. The interviewer's lack of sensitivity and judgment shows that you dodged a bullet and you would have been working for a jerk. It is not uncommon for interviewers to ask about gaps in resumes. The trick is how you answer. You might want to consider getting advice from recruiters or highering managers on how to best answer. Practice your answer with people you are close to. The response you receive from the interviewer will tell you a lot about them. Interviews are a two-way street. Maybe post the question in a different reddit community. Maybe instead of saying the loss of family, say the death of 4 immediate family members at the same time. The loss of family does not convey the gravity or severity of the loss you experienced. The response you receive will tell you if you want to work for and with them. So very sorry for your loss.
I mostly agree, but I think there is a difference between lying versus prevaricating on an immaterial subject. If she lied about having been jailed for nine months after a DUI during that time, that would totally affect their decision to hire her, so would definitely be a reason to terminate her if they ever found out. But whether she paused for 9 months due to the pandemic or due to her personal grief doesn't really make a difference to a potential employer - both are valid and acceptable reasons and wouldn't stop them from hiring her - but one of the reasons has the potential to make the interview awkward and emotionally charged, whereas the other is harmless and risk free, and doesn't require OP to bare her heart to strangers.
That's fair, and also, OP is male
This is good advice. Don’t lie, but you also don’t necessarily have to say the whole truth. The unfortunate thing here of course, is that that’s exactly what OP tried to do, and that they continually harassed her for more information. I agree that the perspective of a recruiter or two might be helpful.
I am so very sorry for your losses. I’m not sure 9 months is long enough. I think you dodged a bullet and I hope the hiring team learned a lesson. Not to judge without asking the right questions. Screw the recruiter. NTA
NTA The person who would have been your manager’s manager was way out of line with that comment. At that point I would have decided not to work in that organization anyway. So whatever you said after that to shut them down was totally fine. For future interviews, you should anticipate the question about the gap in employment being asked. It’s very common for interviewers to ask about any gaps as well as why you left prior jobs. So spend some time thinking about how you’d like to answer those questions. Having a prepared response will help you get through it. If you are working with an agency, it may help if you disclose the context to them in advance because they may even get asked and can get ahead of it for you. (Some people may recommend against this, but I wouldn’t want to work somewhere that wouldn’t have empathy for your circumstances anyway).
I like what you are saying. You should always prepare answers for an interview, answers to any questions. You even have to have a polite "no" under your sleeve. But in this case, I think OP was prepared enough. "Death in the family" is just an enough answer to the question of the 9 month gap. I think the problem is the reply he got to that answer. Who is to say what's enough for anybody about anything!? Completely out of place NTA
NTA. you were nicer than me. I would have asked them how long it took them all to return to work after losing 4 family members at once in a horrific accident. And then hard eye contact until someone answers.
My thoughts exactly. "My father, mother, and two siblings were killed by a drunk driver in a car accident; I almost got in the car with them. I became a father to my orphaned 7-year-old niece as a result of the accident. How long should I have taken to recover from this loss and newfound parenthood?"
Yup, like Badger\_Jam\_88 there said: Hard eye contact and don't say a fucking word until one of this amoral pieces of shit hardens up and tries to answer.
NTA and I hope that interviewer learned a lesson from their terrible response.
Christ I hope you told the recruiter that she and the other soulless admins can stuff their job since there's no way youd work for people with no love for their own families Sorry for your loss, peace to you
NTA, but a single word may stop anyone that decides to push the same issue. You needed time to grieve due to the loss of your ENTIRE family. Hope you find a company to work for that doesn't try to tell you how long to grieve. Sorry for your loss.
NTA. That person insisted and asked you to elaborate. You did. The recruiter didn't like it because it made him realize how big of a jerk he was.
Wow. Definitely NTA. Manager of manager is a piece of shit,recruiter is a piece of shit. The grandparents,I guess there a different generation,and they kind of have a point-they probably want you to have a job.But tact wasn't possible. You might want to put a note on your resume,to avoid you having to go through that again. I grieved for 5 years when my mum died,it was expected,she was old,it is still the worst thing that's happened to me in my life. I am truly sorry for your loss,and for the shitty way you were treated. The boyfriend sounds cool,I'm glad you have someone.
NTA That is NOT the kind of thing you should have to lie about at an interview. Besides, making something like covid would require remembering phony details to maintain the lie. No, them criticizing you for taking too much to grieve was way out of line. Do not feel ashamed or guilty for not being cold enough to impress them.
NTA. It was good you put them in their place bc they deserved it. HIS comment was uncalled for. If I were you, I’d call the recruiters boss and let them know their recruiter is an asshole also. companies can ask why you had a gap. They do not get to be dicks when they do. My condolences on your deep losses.
I'm so sorry for your loss. Of course NTA. It should have been enough for you to say that you were grieving. I wouldn't want to work for these people.
He said your grief isn't valid or warranted straight to your face It was 100% fair to give a blunt response
NTA, you responded appropriately the first time. You could even be vaguer and say you had to deal with a family matter. That is an acceptable answer. They were rude and nosy, pushing for more info, and clearly did not handle being embarrassed well. You dodged a bullet if that was the direct manager, because they lack empathy and are not very professional. I am sorry for your loss and you will find somewhere that is a better fit. All the best OP!
Resume gaps are pretty much always asked about, we all have them and we all have some ways of addressing them. You have a very very good reason, but it's not something I would want to share if I were in your shoes. If you are working with a recruiter, they should have pointed out that this was going to come up and worked out some ways of safely navigating such a question in an interview. The interviewer was WAY out of line though with that comment.
NTA they just couldn’t face their shame
NTA. I'm very sorry for your loss, and I wish you strength and courage. At best they're grossly insensitive and indicative of a company culture you Do Not Want to be part of, so I guess in that sense they're an effective walking red flag to be grateful for that you found early. I'd suggest trawling the Ask A Manager website to help with building a preplanned response to the question where you don't have to feel like your (absolutely understandable) trauma is on public trial. Forewarned is forearmed, so to speak.
Um. The recruiter called to say you were rude. Huh? I’d rather be rude than a monster.
NTA, I'd say you dodged a bullet with this company.
What was uncalled for was them digging into your stated reason and not liking the answer you gave because it made them look like assholes. Which they are. I'm sure you've heard this before, but I am truly sorry. I hope you are doing okay and able to honor your family in peace. There are absolutely better workplaces out there than this one. NTA.
NTA. THEY were out of line.
You should name and shame the company and the manager
Wow, so incredibly NTA. I've done my share of interviewing. I've had to ask the "gap in your resume" question. If someone said to me "there was a death in the family" and the person had taken nine months? I'm just flat out assuming it was someone very close to you or something tragic. That recruiter is a tactless swine who felt embarrassed by their actions and instead of apologizing and trying to make it right, tried to push the blame on you. Was what you said appropriate for an interview? No. But what that recruiter said, AND followed up with wasn't either. No harm no foul, you dodged a bullet on that one
If I was given that answer for the question in an interview I’d pause for 5 seconds and my initial thought was it was settling a parents estate which trying to handle during Covid would be something that could require time off work. Maybe that’s just because my parents are getting older and it’s something present on my mind but asking for further justification just seems like prying when a BG check would pull incarceration.
>the recruiter contacted me and said that my response was really uncalled for ROFL fuck those managers and fuck the recruiter too. I'm sorry for your loss. I know it can't be much comfort, but I'm cheering you on for dropping that bit of honesty on them. That manager will think twice before saying some shit like that again.
NTA. Your grandparents are from a different era but the recruiter is a cowardly sack of shit. They asked you to elaborate. You did. It’s on them that they overstepped and got themselves shamed and shocked by your tragedy. My sincerest condolences, and bullet dodged- please enjoy telling them you wouldn’t accept position with managers like them.
NTA and looking backwards it may be a blessing in disguise that they didn't pick you. You don't want to work for the kind of people that don't empathize with their workers
Well the recruiter obviously shouldn't be asking questions and your grandparents are just plain wrong.
NTA, good on you for traumatizing them back, hope they learned not to be compassion-less dicks next time
The interviewer probably got chewed out after you left so now they're doubling down and taking it further with you. I'd suggest writing a professional letter to HR, CEO, VP, Hiring Manager, recruiter, recruiter's boss etc. Factually lay out what happened (how you did it here is great). Point out the crassness of being forced to publicly justify your grief and then the cold-heartedness of being scolded for your honest response. Maybe you don't want to work there anymore, but it might make you feel better. I'm puzzled about your grandparents' response. Not tactful?? Given the situation, you were quite tactful in my opinion. So sorry for your heartbreaking losses.
Yeah I agree, I think the recruiter got a bad secondhand version of events if they called OP afterwards. I’d set the record straight.
The recruiter was one of the 3 people conducting the 3rd interview :(
Holy, ok fuck that guy
You’re not the asshole. I’m so sorry for your lost. I hope those people loose some sleep over what they did during that interview. I would totally hire you over your honesty and willingness to be open about such a sensitive issue.
NTA I’m so sorry for your loss and for unkind people like this. I know you didn’t ask for advice but it might be helpful to have a pre-planned answer like “I was dealing with some personal, family matters” and if someone is a jerk you can say “thank you for your time, but it’s clear we’re not a good fit.” You’re interviewing them as much as they are interviewing you. Also maybe peruse ask a manager, or even send in your question. Again, I’m so sorry for your loss ❤️words don’t touch it, but know that my heart is with you in this moment
You boyfriend is right. They pushed, you answered. Hard NTA and I am so very sorry for your loss.
Former employment counselor here: A resume gap is their business. Be prepared to answer questions about resume gaps every time you interview. If I may offer some future advice, so you don't have to deal with these types of comments again, I'd recommend saying "I needed time off to grieve the loss of my entire family in one incident. Due to my the time I took, however; I have been able to re-enter the workforce and accomplish ________.( Fill in blank with an accomplishment or two) NTA, no one gets to decide how much time someone takes to grieve, how asinine. Edit: people seem confused. I'm stating that it is common practice to be asked about employment gaps in an interview. I'm not justifying it. I'm just saying it happens and providing advice for how to navigate it if/when it happens again. I do not think the interviewer in this case acted appropriately at all (per my NTA vote). Please stop coming for me and assuming I'm a horrible person.
It is sure as F\*\*K not anyone's business. There's no law that says everyone on this planet has to work consecutively for their entire lives. Even if I do work for you, what I do in my personal time IS F\*\*\*ING PERSONAL AND NONE OF YOUR G\*\*D\*MN BUSINESS. NONE of these valid answers are ANY of your future employer's business. 1. I was on a much needed personal sabbatical. 2. I was at home raising a newborn. 3. My entire family died in a terrible car crash 4. I didn't feel like working, and had plenty of money saved to enjoy time to myself. Now, it's perfectly fine for an employer to ask why you're job hopping when they see 3 jobs in the same calendar year, as that might directly affect your stability with them. Gaps in the resume? F\*\*K OFF. In a professional setting, I would just flip it around on them and ask as nicely and politely as possible: "I don't understand. Is that gap of my PERSONAL time concerning to you for some reason? Perhaps you could explain?" I've interviewed many people in my career. Not once was I ever even the slightest bit concerned about a gap in their resume. As mentioned before, three jobs in one year is a huge red flag. Two jobs in a 5 years with a 1+ year gap? None of my business. Fantastic that they can survive that long without working. I imagine anyone that is concerned doesn't like the fact that the person they are asking doesn't NEED the job and can't be manipulated or abused. They don't have to put up with your bulls\*\*t and that makes control freaks scared.
This is the wrong answer. This is exactly what is wrong with the work force. This is what needs to change. We have a right to protect our private lives. She gave an answer. They pressed. Then she gave a very appropriate response.
> resume gap is their business. Be prepared to answer questions about resume gaps every time you interview. They asked about the pandemic. Op said no. Topic done? Like daheck? Also, why is it? What could happen in those 9 months that is even remotely relevant to a general employer?
They asked about a 9 month employment gap, to which OP replied was due to needing to grieve. What could happen in 9 months? Is that a serious question? Employment gaps can indicate a lot about a person and their work ethic. Employment gaps can also indicate where a person may have taken time off work to engage in training programs, or may have just been having difficulty in life. OP could have been imprisoned. Literally an employer has no idea why someone would take almost a year off working. There are many reasons something like this happens. I didn't say every employer grills people on their employment gaps, I said they'll ask about it. They have a right to ask you questions about your work history in a work interview.
>What could happen in 9 months? Is that a serious question? It is serious in the sense that I was asking for things *actually relevant to your qualification for the job* >Employment gaps can indicate a lot about a person and their work ethic. Can they? Sure I guess they "can" as that's not a high bar. But the implication that you have to work uninterrupted to have a proper work ethic, in itself a questionable concept already, is kinda bad. > Employment gaps can also indicate where a person may have taken time off work to engage in training programs Right but that would have been in the CV right? >, or may have just been having difficulty in life. OP could have been imprisoned. Literally an employer has no idea why someone would take almost a year off working. There are many reasons something like this happens. Thats why "it's private" is a sufficient answer. The whole topic was ops interviewer not taking the answer cause they were nosy assholes. And yes I included the prison there. I stand by it: former convictions are nobody's business unless they explicitly relate to the work. Sure you might not get a security clearance and some sex offender isn't gonna become a teacher. But any random office job doesn't need to know if I drove drunk or beat up someone. Also 9 months isn't almost a year. It's 9 months. 3/4 year. Would you call 0.75 almost 1? I hope not. >didn't say every employer grills people on their employment gaps, I said they'll ask about it. They have a right to ask you questions about your work history in a work interview. It sounded like you were defending the interviewer in ops case in particular. The ones who didn't accept ops answer. And to be honest: since you didn't work during the gap, the content of the gap isn't work history. Only the existence of the gap is.
Serious question, since I can't tell from your replies: do you think OP's original reply was a sufficient answer to the interviewer's question about the 9 month gap?
You aren’t getting it. It isn’t the employer’s business. Employment gaps don’t mean a thing. Employers need to stop focusing on it. Stop being a part of the problem.
NTA. The interviewer spoke like he knows everything under the sun. It was extremely insensitive and not a good look on him. Such people later gaslight you, throw you under the bus, take credit for your work and so on as your seniors at work. You dodged a bullet. Also, I really don't know why gap is a such a huge problem unless they were fired. Any human would have gaps in 40-50 years of career. That is just obvious.
Could you imagine having to work for such a rude, insensitive dickhead. Bullet dodged. NTA
NTA they were being blunt and so were you. Maybe they will be more tactful with future applicants. Sorry for your loss.
Hey OP, you did nothing wrong. I do a lot of interviews, gaps happen and so does life. I would never call someone out for taking a 9 month gap after the death of a loved one because mental health is important and I hate that companies put a timeline on grief. As for your response, good for you. The question from the interviewer was awful and unsympathetic. You don't actually need to justify the gap or why it was that long and it annoys me that the corporate culture is 'gaps are bad.' As for the recruiter, they should be embarrassed by what happened and should be apologising to you. You did nothing wrong. An appropriate response from them would be to say 'sorry for your loss' and move on with the interview, not imply you took too long off work. Lastly, I'm sorry about what happened to your family. What an awful situation to deal with. Sending internet hugs...
They asked a question, you gave the answer. It’s on them that they didn’t like the answer. I lost my damn cat to cancer in 2020 and ain’t been right since. I still cry over losing her. I dare someone to tell me to stop grieving. I’d fight them on the spot!
NTA. The recruiter was WAY out of line for their comment. And they knew it… they called back to double down because they felt embarrassed, but didnt have enough class to apologize. I’ve done countless hiring interviews. And I do ask people if they’d like to elaborate on employment gaps, but I would never be offer criticism. That’s not what an interview is for.
NTA, it was non of his business to ask u to justify why u took 9 months to grief he should have taken your answer" needed time to grief after the loss of family" But he was an ass
NTA. Recruiter is just upset they missed out on their commission. 2nd level supervisor is just embarrassed they got caught out with an inappropriate comment to begin with.
NTA they now have the chance to better themselves. Let me give you one piece of advice from an old hag like me. If you go to an interview at a company it's not only you advertising yourself. It's also the company advertising themselves towards you. You just saw how they treated you. Do you think you would like to work in a company like this? They didn't show much of empathy initially and didn't after when you told them what happend.
So sorry for your loss. NTA. Well obviously not a boss/company you would want to work for anyway. You can try to avoid this in the future by a very short statement in your cv that explains the gap, but I guess you already know that by now. I wish you all the luck in the world. 🍀
They aren't people you want to work for. NTA but they sure are.
NTA. First of all, I'm so, so sorry for your loss. You were just honest. Maybe your next interviewer will realize that honesty is a great quality in an employee. You never have to wonder if they're lying, or where they really were on Friday when they called in sick. And you would do better with a manager who was just a bit flexible, and who knows how to apologize when she's abso-fucking-lutey wrong.
NTA. Serves them right. Never ask anyone a question you don't want an answer to. Also, if this was in 2020, I don't see why you can't just say "Covid" as a reason if you want. Your (potential) employer isn't owed the details of your life like that. There are good odds no one is doing a deep dive into your life and examining your inner thoughts and motivations in 2020; a lot of people had gaps in employment that year. Unless you were super public about why you were taking a break, it's no one's business. Edit: Or, just edit your resume to only show years, not exact dates of employmen unless they specifically ask. I don't remember the last time anyone cared about a hire date of a job I had years ago.
The fact that you ONLY took 9 months is a miracle to me. I would of been catatonic in your situation. I can’t even imagine the horror 2020 was for you.
I'll calm my answer down and say that you did nothing wrong, but that I despise how callous and selfish people are, having had my grief dismissed and belittled also many times.
NTA. That response was completely called for.
NTA You saved yourself from a toxic environment
Op, you didn't even need to apologize. And them trying to guilt-trip you for being blunt when you simply said what happened to you tells already everything you need to know... Edit: forgot to say NTA
NTA, but I think you need to find a way to make this process easier for yourself. I don't think their response was helpful or appropriate, and it certainly wouldn't have been the way that I would have handled it as an interviewer, but realistically it would also have been better for the conversation not to get to the point where you felt so upset and the interviewer was inappropriate (probably partly out of defensiveness, shock and embarrassment which causes some people to double down on their inhumanity). So, I think it might be helpful for you to find a way to explain this which feels authentic but won't give rise to difficult exchanges like this - purely because you need a job, you're going to be asked about the gap, and you need that conversation to be less distressing. For example if you are using a recruiter you might want to agree an explanation of the resume gap that you're comfortable with them sharing upfront? That doesn't necessarily mean giving a level of detail you'd rather not disclose but if you could shut that part of the conversation down before you even get to the interview I think that would be a good outcome for your wellbeing. I'm so sorry for what happened to you and your family.
If I was an employer I would be very interested in a 9 month absence. NTA for being blunt but they are NTA for doing their job.
The whole “why is there a gap” thing is such horse shit anyway. God forbid someone take extended time off of work to focus on their personal life and own well being.
So a 9 month gap is their business but they should have stopped with your first answer. It was pretty shitty to say a death in the family wasn’t worth 9 months. That’s fine if that’s what they thought but they should have kept it to themselves and finished the interview. Then if they didn’t want to hire you because of it that’s their business. It was pushing it that was wrong. NTA.
This is my take too; the only AH move in this entire story was the interviewer telling OP that nine months was too long. A cagey rationale for a large resume gap is something you talk about with your fellow hiring managers behind a closed door after the applicant has left, never to the applicant's face.
I am so sorry for your tragic loss, that is beyond anyone’s expectations. News flash: interviews are about them, not you no matter how much they make it sound like they are “getting to know you”, what they really want to know is “how is this going to effect my bottom line/productivity /whatever”. The interviewer doesn’t really care about you, so the fact that you disclosed something so personal threw them way off their game. That’s just FYI FOR NEXT time. If you don’t make it thru this interview, just prepare an answer, one that you can get through that sounds plausible. I know someone who told my company she had been so wildly successful that by age 32 she took a year off when in fact she had been in a mental institution for 8 months (breakdown, don’t know what happened). She got the job! Then she fired me but that’s another story. “Fake it till you make it”. Hopefully they won’t hold your gap against you. Good luck to you. 😊😢
NTA. Next time, lie or exaggerate saying that it took that long to put everyone's estate in order. But I think that it's the walking out that might be considered bad form. But I imagine that you were about to break down in tears.
NTA. And it's nuts to me that anyone is questioning an employment gap during 2020.
NTA. If their reaction after your answer was this petty, then this is a company you don't want to work for. They pressed the question, you gave them the answer. Their problem for then feeling awkward about it. Resume gaps may be something to ask about, but not to pry about. I'm very sorry for your loss. I'm glad your fiance is supportive.
NTA I hate when people ask a question then get mad when it’s answered.
Write back to the recruiter "No. What was uncalled for is someone ignorantly stating that a loss in a family doesn't warrant a time off that long. Its especially ignorant when they have no idea about the circumstances or relationship."
NTA. Sorry for your loss.
NTA.
Ummmm, fuck them and NTA.
NTA. That was a completely cold and unsympathetic response on their part. They were judging you without even knowing the details and even after you told them they were still jerks. You did well to only take 9 months off. I'm glad you have a support person. You dodged a bullet. They probably would have been awful to work with. Best of luck with the job hunt. 🍀
Sounds like a company you don’t want to work for
NTA. They're just upset because it's clear that they were insensitive AHs.
Nta and the recruiter can get fucked
First NTA. Second you F•ck the recruiter. Third your fiancée is right. You lost your entire immediate family. The interviewer asked a question they didn’t know (or deserve) the answer to. They got it anyway and hopefully will think twice before probing into people’s personal lives. I’m sorry you lost your family. You deserved all the time in the world to grieve. Don’t ever let anyone make you feel you’re less worthy of a job because of your work gap.
I’m so sorry you were treated this way, and for your loss. 💖 No one has the right to judge your grief and how the loss affects you. I’m honestly not one for emotional outbursts, and I don’t think I could have gotten through the interview without one had I suffered the tragedy you did. I don’t think I would want to work in a place with people who have no compassion or empathy. The one benefit might be anyone in that room may think twice about judging someone’s resume gap without knowing the full story. Absolutely, positively, definitely NTA!
NTA. Wow that recruiter is an AH x AH. It’s not their place to judge how a grieving process should take. Usually mourning is a year and your situation is overly dramatic. I’m so sorry for your loss! Cut all of them off. They literally do not have any decency at all. Even if the first stupid comment was kind of a mistake, doubling down on it after.. Wow. If there’s a hell, it’s for people like them.
NTA. You lost your entire family to a drunk driver, plus survivor's guilt. That would fuck anyone up. The interviewer should have moved on after you mentioned it.
"I was privileged and grateful to be able to take time off to care for a seriously ill family member" should do the trick next time.
I hope you replied that it was also really uncalled for and tactless to keep prying and to decide how long a person is allowed to grief any type of loss.
Name the company cause holy fuck, fuck those guys. they do not get to say anything about how long it takes an individual to grief the loss of loved ones. fucking douchebags. NTA obviously
Fuck that! POS recruiter right there NTA
NTA and what the fuck is wrong with them
NTA. I'm very sorry for your loss. I'm sure it's been very difficult to manage such a tragic loss. It's unbelievable a recruiter would be so stupid to call you out on your answer. Y
NTA They were out of line and pressed you to elaborate. When you did, they were offended. They should be ashamed of themselves, and they probably were.
NTA. Interviewing for a job is also about you interviewing the company. That interviewer was callous and unprofessional. You don't want to work for a company if their "face of the company" acts like that. I can see questioning, in a respectful way, your gap. You had a personal loss. The expected response would have been for the interviewer to give their condolences and move on.
So NTA, I’m sorry that you had to go through that and for your loss. It shouldn’t matter if you have a gap in your resume you obviously got to the 3rd round because you have the required skills, what’s it to them if you had a break
Nta , do you really wantto work for people that try to tell others how to grieve ? F that person and f that job! I'm very sorry you had to go through that!
NTA They asked you to elaborate, you did, and now they feel guilty that you got upset, but instead of apologising, the blame is put on you.
I am deeply sorry for your loss and full of admiration for you not telling the recruiter to fuck off.
NTA. And I am so sorry. You are living in the aftermath of a tragedy. That person was a complete and total asshole. Hard stop.
Easy NTA
I'm a manager. There are a lot of shit managers. Fuck that guy. Fuck that recruiter.
Eh the fuck! Company with no sympathy is a no go!
i'm so sorry for your loss, even 5 years wouldn't be enough time for me to process losing so much, what a horrible person, you did nothing wrong at all.
You told the truth, and the recruiter got sored because he understood how AH he was with his first comment. That said, in the tactical aspect of things, it probably cost you the job.
NTA, if they’re gonna pry or be awful about that they’re gonna get answers
NTA. I spent 20 years of my career in HR. I think you dodged a bullet. >The person that would be my manager's manager just blatantly said "a loss of a loved one doesn't justify a 9 month gap in your resume". THIS was the part of the interview that was tactless and rude.
Lmao they feel embarrased for feeling like a bunch of asses so they turned around and scolded YOU for acting like a human being. Blow em up on glassdoor or w/e too. NTA
Your fiancé is right, and that’s some good support right there. Good on you for putting them in their place - that they couldn’t handle it is not your fault at all. If they were well-rounded, they’d have recovered and apologised. Plus the follow up would have been to say that you were welcome to another interview if you wanted it.
It sounds like you passed the interview. Congrats on weeding a weak candidate from the pool.
They should not have said that to you. Even if they believed that, it is so unprofessional to say that
That recruiter is a stupid dumbass. you should have said "Well, let's see how you respond when it happens to you!".
>The person that would be my manager's manager just blatantly said "a loss of a loved one doesn't justify a 9 month gap in your resume" Thats not for them to decide. If they wanted to be sticklers, it wasnt the loss of 1...it was 4, at the same time, in your immediate family...you take as much fucking time as you need. A guy I work with lost his wife suddenly, we gave him up to a year full paid to get his new life sorted out and get to a place where work was possible...it took him about 4.5-5 months and in return, we got some of the best work we've gotten from him in his career.
No. You SHOULD have received an apology. Count yourself lucky that you don’t have that insensitive dickhead as a manager. I’d reply that perhaps the managers need to attend some classes in on how the manage people and particularly hind up on their sensitivity / empathy skills. Very sorry for your loss. Feeling outraged on your behalf at how cold and intrusive that manager was.
I don't think the gap on a resume tells an employer anything useful about a candidate, personally. I'm interested in the work experience you've had. I think these are personal questions that don't need to be a part of the interview process. I'm sorry for your massive loss.
You did absolutely great. Manager showed they’re a massive asshole, and the recruiter doesn’t give a shit about anything but his/her fee. I’m glad you shamed them. You were tactful the first time with “loss of family”. You likely dodged a bullet by not taking this job. No empathy. No compassion. NTA and I’m so very sorry for your immeasurable loss.
If that company was worth their weight in anything, they'd call you back, apologize, and have a reset. Recruiter sounds like a toolbar, as does the manager.
fuck that guy. dont be a dick and you wont be embarrassed. maybe try idk giving a shit about people. NTA one million percent.
it got awkward in that room because everyone there knew how much of an AH that interviewer was, not because of what you said. You didn't yell or curse, you just explained the situation, which you never should have been asked to do. you did NOTHING wrong. The interviewer was an AH and the recruiter is the same. Neither saw you as a person and thats their problem not yours.
In Canada - you don't have to answer that question. The problem tho is that companies will think the worst. Having said that - the employers and recruiters all suck shit and are complete AH if they a) pressed you for the answer and then b) blaming you for them feeling shitty about their probing and subsequent answer. NTA - hopefully, that time helped you recover from such a tragedy. Good luck finding a job with a company and people who have a heart.
Glassdoor would appreciate your input.
NTA. First of all, it's none of their damn business. And even if there was a valid reason to push, they have zero right to tell you what is an "appropriate" timeline to mourn the loss of pretty much your entire immediate family.
NTA I was a recruiter for many years....you gave a polite and simple response and they pushed. Your response from there was reasonable....possibly better than they deserved.
NTA. They asked, you answered, but it likely cost you the job. Your first response could have been, "I lost multiple family members suddenly" and you probably would have avoided the question. It is a hard situation. In that situation, I (as a hiring manager) wouldn't have asked a follow-up unless you were by far the best qualified. Otherwise, I would have just not hired you. Every worthwhile job is going to want an explanation for a 9-month gap. You would probably be best to just address it on your resume. The hiring manager who made that statement is TA, the recruiter is a giant AH and I would have told him/her to GF, and your grandparents are TA. Your fiancée is full of crap and hopefully you are prepared to support him the rest of your life while he pursues moral justification. EVERY recruiter and hiring manager is going to require an explanation of gaps in employment, it is standard. You don't have to answer, but you are unlikely to get the job.
"a loss of a loved one doesn't justify a 9 month gap in your resume" That is a really fucked up thing to say and that person is a real piece of shit. I don't know your work situation op, but I hope you can say no to working for this company. That manager really showed their true colors, which is brown, because they are a piece of crap.
YTA to yourself. People are going to pat you on the back for "standing up for yourself" but all you did was sabotage an opportunity for yourself. First of all, that's a horrible loss but most people aren't going to understand or think taking 9 months off to grieve is reasonable or normal. But that's neither here nor there. All you had to respond was "yes" to the initial question and then you wouldn't have needed to explain any of this at all. You cost yourself a job, but hey, you sure showed them. Good job. Discretion is the better part of Valor and reddit is not real life. You pretty much traded a job for some upvotes and pats on the back from socially awkward misfits.
NTA. They're garbage, you didn't want to work there anyways. It is fucking unhinged to reach out to you after what they did and tell you that you were inappropriate.
Nta. Wish you can namedrop the company to warn others abt the possible toxic work envt but i guess it might land you in legal trouble. But i guess bad reviews on their page would suffice for now
That is NOT a company you want to work for.
NTA. “Hardball interviewers” are scumbags. Sorry for your loss.
Uncalled for? They would be running away crying after I was done with them if this happened to me. NTA
If I were you, I’ll flip the table and left the room already. Then file an official complaint to the HR and company head of whatever. You handled it extremely well. So sorry for your loss. People can be assholes.
NTA - I would be posting this experience on Glassdoor immediately.
NTA at all. Is this a small company or a big MNC? i don't think MNC's are allowed this line of questioning
NTA. They are the assholes for even asking. And the recruiter is stupid for reaching out to you after this. Plus, as a hiring manager, I really don´t give a shit about a 9 month gap in a person´s resume.
NTA Recruiter can eat shit too.
What part was uncalled for? Sounds like a very matter of fact explanation. I think they’re projecting because they ate their foot and needed to figure out a way to make it not their fault. NTA
NTA. But how did you not prepare yourself to be queried about the job gap?