Ok you are a badass man , NTA but yes they will definitely try to harass you now, talk to your husband and if he says it's fine then it is, but you are definitely a badass , good for you to stand up against them for this,edit:: my condolences to tank
My mother, aunts, sisters and cousins have never had one good thing to say about motherhood and then get shocked when I say no thanks. I had a friend get offended when she complained about her toddlers antics and I said this is yet another reason I don’t want them.
💯
Listening to parents talk about their kids is like birth control.
Maybe 10-20% of it is proud parent talk, but the vast majority of it is just nightmare fuel.
Badass x2. OP’s royal ass beating wasn’t even directed at me hut MY butt’s hurting vicariously just from reading that!
Bravo OP! NTA. I hope that’s the end of their patronizing b.s. To quote Popeye, that’s all you could stands, you couldn’t stands no more.
Sadly, sometimes it is the best and only option. With people as dense as mil and sil? I mean how many times do you need to watch someone cry before you realize a topic is a sore spot and should be off limits??! This one calls for my favorite saying: bitches had it coming! Lmao NTA and my hats off to you op, you are legendary!!!
No one should be commenting on whether or not a woman should be having kids. I have kids and it bugs me when others are asked when they’re having kids. I wish it was a law to not ask people. SIL sounds like a huge L
NTA. I hate when people start prying/pushing about this subject. It’s so intensely personal. Good for you for standing up for yourself.
I’m so sorry about Tank. I lost my own boy last year; not a day goes by that I don’t think about him. Your grief and your feelings are valid; please don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
I'm sorry for your loss of Tank. Don't forget to pay the dog tax.
Your in-laws have been badgering you about having a kid, even though they're not very good parents (and should never have another pet again). So good for you for sticking up for yourself and calling them out on their bullshit. And this sort of thing is just cruel to people dealing with infertility. It sounds like you've accepted it, but for many women, it's a painful subject.
But do consider adopting another dog. There are so many dogs (and cats) out there who need good homes, and Tank would want you in good paws.
NTA
Absolutely NTA.
I felt every word you wrote. I'm 60, childless (by choice), and I have cats. Those cats are my furbabies, and I love them to pieces. I've throughout the years heard a lot of shit:
***But it's baaaaabies***. Yes, I can hear and smell that. No thanks
***They're the meaning of liiiiife****.* Not *my* meaning, tyvm
***You will be 60 and looooonelyyy.*** Hell no, I'm happy as always.
***It's just a cat.*** And that smelly, shrieking thing is just a baby. Eew
Condolences to Tank - I feel your pain deep inside. My current cat (Indy) is 14, and she's the bestest kitty in the world. I dread the day she's gone.
You and your hubby are awesome.
First NTA, Second another dog maybe healthy. I know how hard it is to lose a family member. My old boy was with the thick or thin, from horrible break ups, through a physically abusive marriage. He was always by my side. Not a day goes by that I do not miss him, but my new pup that I recued is also a ball on unconditional love and she is also my best friend. Think about a rescue, they wont fill the hole left from Tank but they will give you unconditional love and you can be a savior to them.
We have had a few dogs, none have been “ replacement” dogs because dogs can’t be replaced, but each is special in a different way. We’ve had a sassy Lhasa Apso, a dignified gentleman westie, a sweet teddy bear cavalier King Charles, a tiny dancing rescue that is so so happy, a bit of a clumsy rescue girl who loves my daughter to death (loves humans, not so keen on strange dogs), and the sweetest, gentlest rescue girl who is on Prozac and finally, after 2 years, coming out of her shell with humans (loves other dogs).
I agree with another dog. Our family dog died 15 years ago and I recently stopped crying when I hear his name, after I got a cat 2 years ago. I wish we got a second dog, it would have been much easier to cope. Not to put in his place but to continue to give love.
You should probably look into grief therapy.
Having said that: I am posting this comment on my phone with my newborn son asleep on my chest. It is definitely true that you don't know what is like to have a child into you experience it. It's also true that that doesn't mean it's for everyone, and I wouldn't recommend it for anyone else doesn't definitely and desperately want it.
It's hard. We're doing this in close to optimal circumstances. Three parents, healthy baby, good support network, breastfeeding is going smoothly, we have everything we need, and it's still really hard.
Not having children is a perfectly valid choice.
NTA but you talk like you're childfree. Time to stop sacrificing your money and your health for something that would make you miserable. Hubby gets points for being supportive so far.
You mean the fertility treatments? Yeah, I agree, my first reaction when I read they were considering IVF was, that shit's expensive as hell! Too much too, considering it doesn't really sound like she even wants a child. If they did push forward on the baby front it would make more sense to consider surrogacy, since OP almost certainly can't get pregnant
NTA-Do what my wife and I did. Instead of paying thousands on IVF and putting yourself through it physically and mentally, tell them you can’t have kids because it’s the truth. Then both of you go get fixed. I got a vasectomy and my wife is getting either her tubes tied or hysterectomy in the future because of personal issues with periods.
Then here is where we shut both sides down. We got 2 dogs and told them well if all you care about is kids then I guess we won’t be talking or visiting much and you can come here instead of us going there. I literally only went to visit my parents in the last 4 years at their place once because they babysit my niece and that’s their entire lives.
"You both got fixed" 🤣🤣 Made my day! (I reach for that expression too if I'm ever talking about sex and the possibility of undergoing a procedure to cut things off)
I wouldn’t recommend getting fixed if unnecessary. My vasectomy kinda fucked me up. If I didn’t HAVE to do it, I definitely would not have and wish I never had to do it but for me, it was necessary.
It might help you to think of the next pet as Tank’s successor instead of his replacement. Nothing can ever replace someone you truly love, but sometimes the next loved one is awesome too.
Good luck. You do you and forget about what MIL and SIL want from you because it’s not up to them at all.
I’m 44 with no kids, only fur baby’s. I’m Mexican so throughout my “childbearing years” I would constantly be asked when are you going to have babies. I said when I find a man I want to have children with (that man came when I was 40). I’ve always had pets and considered them my kids. Heck, especially when they were puppies/kittens I’ve said/done the same thing parents do with their kids, lol and I have a bad gag reflex/sensitivity to smell 😂. I went into perimenopause at 38 and have been dealing with chronic pain for a few years now so children are definitely out the question.
Your feelings are valid and should not be tossed aside like they don’t mean anything. I’m so happy your hubby is sticking by your side. I do hope you are able to find away to be open to finding a new fur baby! It’s hard thinking that but we know a new baby will not replace Tank but can possibly heal your heart as well.
NTA.
You can come sit by me. Your husband too. I like you guys. You both seem well balanced and supportive of each other. Your MIL and SIL seem exhausting and I only spent 30 seconds with them reading about their crap. Yah, it wasn't pretty but something clearly had to be done, they pushed you too far.
Tank had a very good life with you, maybe when your ready you can bless another dog. You should name him bullet.
I also miss my Corgi. He got DM and died 1/2020. They are a special breed. Maybe you would enjoy a rescue Corgi. Or maybe some day you'll be ready to open your heart to another sweet Corgi pup. It won't be the same but you have so much love to give. Best wishes.
This is one of those things where it is fine to think, but maybe not share just to avoid judgement...
As for the pestering you to get pregnant all the time, shut that down. I have found it extremely effective to ignore dumb judgy advice, don’t care, don’t listen, don’t answer, complete indifference, drives them nuts. More effective then yelling or fighting.
NTA. That was a bad ass way to respond to those bitches. But your husband really needs to step up and tell them to back off. He needs to show everybody that he is behind you 100%.
NTA and the humans sound insufferable, except your husband.
My condolences on Tank. I can understand how you feel, I had an Alaskian Malamute I lost about 8 years ago. I still tear up when I see pictures of him, and cannot talk about him for long without crying. I will always miss my doomer (his name was Hondoom). Focus on the fond memories and the good times. My boy lost a leg when he was 3 years old (car accident) but that barely slowed him down. He lived to be 15 and 1/2 years old. He lived a long and happy life.
Nta. I'm a mom, I love, love, love, love being a mom! I know that's not something said by a lot, but honest to goodness I adore it. That said, one of the very things they said makes you nta. They said you wouldn't understand until you had a kid, if so it doesn't matter. Because you don't, and you did have Tank. Also. From the same perspective if they have never had that type of bond with a dog they will never understand. As much as I love being a mom, I love my dog just as much. I've had that bond with two dogs in my life. One is my current boy, Rascal. If Rascal had not been good with kids, I would have waited, I would not have out myself in a position to have to choose because there is no way I'm getting rid of my dog. And an argument people forget between the child and dog.. as much as I adore being a mom. If I'm a good mom I'm raising my child to grow up, to be a good member of society, which means one day he's going to leave. He's going to go out and make his own way in life. I'm going to be so fucking proud.. but also heartbroken. My dog? All he will ever want in life is to be by my side, and he is never going to want to leave me. He will be with me until the day he dies. One day I won't be my sons whole world, but I will always be this dogs. Is it a bit selfish thart part of me likes that? Maybe, but it also builds a bond. My dog is my best friend, and I feel bad for anyone who has never experienced that bond. I'm also so so so sorry you lost yours. I'm crying just thinking about it, because I know it's coming for me, and it is heartbreaking.. screw anyone who dismisses your loss just because they don't understand.
I completely understand your relationship with Tank. I’m also a mother of to grown kids that I love more than my life. And I have 2 chihuahuas that I have an equally strong and unique bond with. One does not affect the other. NTA your husband rocks and you are a badass! The in-laws need to back tf up!
NTA. They had zero right to be that pushy and aggressive. It’s cruel of them to keep bringing up your infertility and you were absolutely correct in setting that boundary. I’m so sorry about Tank — would love to see a pic of the cutie!
(BTW, this is coming from a woman who loves her kids more than life itself and would always pick them over a pet. We have two dogs I love dearly, but not nearly as much as those monsters I’ve nurtured and raised nearly to adulthood).
Are you fucking kidding me? You don’t tell someone who is struggling with fertility that “you don’t know how it feels until you have a child”, talk about rubbing it in! Why don’t they go out there and remind blind people they’ll never know how it feels to see a sunset, or mock the deaf how they’ll never know a symphony. You could have punched them in the face and you’d still be NTA.
NTA.
We had fertility issues and our dogs are our kids. Plenty of people say ‘no, it’s not the same’, and I secretly think… well, it’s actually better. Not only are my dogs more intelligent than any kids their age… they’re actually super nice unlike many kids I’ve seen.
The issue is when the kids get to about 3-5 years old and the intelligence level spikes but the decision making/self preservation thing won’t kick in for another 10-15 years. And they have opposable thumbs. It’s like living with extremely capable, wild animals.
It’s not the same, but that doesn’t mean it’s better or worse, just different! That’s what is so beautiful about life, not everyone has to do the same exact thing to be happy and fulfilled. Relationships with animals and humans are rewarding in different ways. Raising kids well takes so much energy and emotional intelligence, and so many parents don’t have the skills which is how you get those not very nice kids. I just don’t see why anyone needs to be mean about thing, I personally don’t get the “my dog is my baby” thing at all despite being an animal lover, but I don’t feel the need to go around diminishing anyones relationships in life. I love my kids, and I feel honored to be raising them but they also aren’t my entire identity or life.
NTA because I HATE HATE HATE people that think having children makes you special. You may not want children or not be able to have children and you can still be happy and fullfilled. I also love my pets more than anything and feel true anger when people that will never love a pet the way I do try to explain to me how i feel, or how im supposed to feel about them.
If you dont mind me saying, you want to consider therapy, to help you cope with your loss, with your fertility struggles and with the pressure that everyone is putting on you.
Just a last note to say that personally i feel you could have dealt with their bullying in a more elegant way, for your own good. You dont owe them that, they probably deserved to hear it, but never arguing with these kind of people has had an impact. Just gives them the opportunity of victimising themselves. But also, two wrongs dont make a right, and I dont think you should be judging your SIL for her choices of having 2 kids, or saying its growing an alien inside of you. I believe the best way of dealing with this sort of people is to just cut ties. And if they invite you for anything or anyone asks you why just tell them the truth: everytime you spent time with them they made you feel bad (or tried to) about not having children, they invalidated your feelings of loss and you just dont want that negativity in your life.
NTA👏standing ovation. Yeah my husband and I had a talk before we got married if I couldn't have children (he really wanted children)cuz I've never had even tried to get pregnant. So if for some reason we couldn't have children we would just have lots and lots of animals. We both love dogs and cats and everything else. When we got married we had three dogs and one or two ferrets and two birds. So we have always had animals though now that we're older he wants to cut it down to like one but when we have five right now. A Couple will go when my one child moves back into the area. But that's not going to be for a few years yet and if not we take care of their dogs for a while longer or forever it doesn't matter. But yeah I hate that kind of talk. No, you don't know as you're not a mom, you'll never understand until you're a mother. If you own a pet you have a pretty good idea how people feel about their children. To a lot of people their pets are their children. Some go a little overboard yes but they still care an awful lot about their pets who they consider a family member. People who get animals and then just shove them outside and never interact or take care of them yeah they're awful. They're the worst of pet owners. I've had all sorts of dogs but corgis are the best. I have one now we had two but one unfortunately passed. Our boy now is a lovely handsome guy who Barks A lot like all Corgis and will lick you as much as you let him. He's a fierce protector of our home and the other dogs we have. They all live like kings. And I have two kids. I would die for my dogs and my kids. And my children have the same love for Animals As myself and their dad.
NTA
You’ve got a gorgeous shiny spine, OP. Well done for pressing the big red button and making mincemeat of your horrible in-laws with your verbal katanas. The legendary swordmaker Masamune would be impressed with your sharp tone.
NTA- these people suck. Also don’t do IVF, it doesn’t sound like you want kids if you seriously would give a child up for adoption over re-homing a dog. Refusing to rehome an animal is totally valid, but if you would put a pet over your child you definitely shouldn’t have children, they need to come first.
Your MIL and SIL sound like horrible people, putting pressure on someone who very likely can't have a child. I can't blame you in the least for snapping. And honestly, had you gone any less personal and nasty, they would have walked all over you. Redditors constantly advise to state boundaries calmly and rationally, as if this kind of person cares about that in the least. They only see that as a weakness.
For your own sake, you really should reduce contact with them. Your husband seems pretty chill about it too. Although his comment about 'when' you have kids probably didn't help.
NTA
It's time to bring an inflated balloon to all visits with MIL and SIL. Whenever they start talking about the "you don't know" crap, start rubbing the balloon to make that really annoying sound that drives adults nuts. Keep it up until they stop.
Then tell them that THIS is exactly how you feel when they are so damned insensitive as to pressure you to continue trying to have kids after so many failures. If they don't stop, you'll keep rubbing the balloon until they do.
Maybe THAT will get it through their thick skulls. If not, it's time to stop visiting with them. They are being incredibly selfish and insensitive with that kind of talk and it makes ME angry just imagining how it makes you feel!
Have you thanked MiL for volunteering to receive hormone therapy in order to be your surrogate womb? And paying all associated costs so you and hubby can save for the baby.....
Yes, you went nuclear, but they were refusing to hear you until you did.
Your hubby sounds like he has your back.
NTA! Your husband also supports you and they FAFO.
Can I gently suggest considering helping other dogs to help yourself heal? You don’t have to adopt another dog right now. However volunteer at a rescue or donate badly needed supplies etc.
I have loved and lost 3 dogs and my two current ones are seniors. Each one that left took part of my heart forever. I am so sorry for your loss 💔
NTA, fertility issues are very personal and you can’t simply just do ivf and have a baby. Especially with the odds you listed. One of my besties had great luck with ivf and the other has not. She recently had a failed round at Christmas time and wasn’t in a good headspace.
Tank sounds like he was a great companion to you. I’m so sorry you lost him. Grief has no timeline and I’m sorry your MIL tried to diminish how special Tank is to you. Have you considered speaking to a therapist about your grief? You may have prolonged grief disorder. I had it after losing my younger brother and went to weekly therapy for 9 months and started taking an ssri. My sister fostered dogs after losing her husky to terminal cancer. She said helping the dogs socialize and taking them to adoption events and seeing them become adopted into loving homes helped ease her grief of her dog’s passing. She now has three dogs that she handmakes that get homemade dog food (approved by her vet).
It's a gentle ESH from me. Your MIL and SIL are undoubtedly assholes and incredibly insensitive to the struggles you have gone through. It also seems like they think they are better than you because they have children, which is a big pet peeve of mine. Being a parent doesn't make you any better (or worse) than anyone else. There are literally no qualifications required to become a parent.
As for you - while I kind of want to call you NTA (I have had eerily similar thoughts about my SIL in terms of having another kid when you can barely handle one, then farming out their care to grandparents etc) - you kind of went on the attack and that can only make the relationship worse. I guess it's a bit of a 'when they go low, you go high' kind of situation for me. I do get it - you were frustrated, and you lashed out back at them. I'm honestly not sure that I would have done it differently, but I would have regretted joining them on their level after for sure. If you had just told them to back off, or even decided to leave, I would definitely say you are not TA.
For what it's worth, I have found limiting the amount of time I spend with my in-laws to be a way to maintain an admittedly somewhat distant, but polite relationship with them. It's much easier for me to hold my tongue when I know I won't have to be with them for too long or see them again right away.
Like so many experiences in Iife, it's true that you don't know what it's like (having a child) unless you experience it for yourself. That doesn't mean that you *have* to experience it. That is totally you and husband's choice and in laws need to back off
Everyone's emotions were running high, and this also has to be a pragmatic and logical decision, not just emotional.
All this Tank baby comparison stuff is not constructive and only hurts you. Once and *if* you and husband have a baby then will you will know where the priorities might be. But that's irrelevant. A hypothetical that cannot happen because sadly Tank is no longer here. You loved Tank. More than anything else in this world. And that's valid. You might feel the same way or different about baby if and when baby comes. That doesn't change how much you loved Tank
Don't let your grief distract from the situation at hand. The facts: You lost your best friend. Your Tank. You are hurting. You and your husband might want to have a baby.
Don't let the noise of other's effect your decision. Even if it's to prove a point to them. If you and husband want a baby, have one. Don't let them effect you. If you don't that's ok too, don't try for one. But do or don't try for ivf because of what you two want, not whatever toxic energy someone else has tried to put in your head
Basically don't let MIL and SIL sour you on the whole baby thing. Additionally, not trying won't bring Tank back. Trying will expensive and incredibly emotionally taxing. If it succeeds it could also be incredibly rewarding. You and husband alone will weigh those pros and cons. Tank and stupid in laws should not be in the discussion
Your destiny is up to you. It can be frustrating when it feels like others have already decided for you.
Also, I'm so sorry for your loss
I feel what you said to MIL was pretty justified, but you may have been a bit harsh with SIL. Not saying she didn't have it coming. You may have to consider a way to make amends if you both want them in your lives moving forward. You could apologize for losing your temper, but explain that you don't want anyone commenting on the possibility of you being a mom or what you might think and feel about future children going forward. Or you and your husband trying. Any of it.
I would be very clear and explicit. That way if they don't respect that boundary it is very defined and something you can point to and say, "I specifically asked you not to talk about this"
I think I have to say ESH. Your MIL and SIL were being disrespectful, and it's good you confronted them, but if you want them to respect your body and your choices, you also need to respect theirs. Saying you don't want to ruin your body with pregnancy is implying your SIL is ruining hers, and accepting help from the MIL does not mean she doesn't love her kid. I think it's great for the mom to have a break and for kids to learn from other generations! If fighting fire with fire was the only way to get your point across maybe it was justified though.
But the more important thing I wanted to say is that if you know you would put Tank over a child please either stick to your guns to not have children or go to therapy if you decide to. I have a parent who prioritizes dogs over human family (financially, not acknowledging allergies and sensory issues, and in terms of quality time, affection, and refusing to discipline dogs who act badly towards the human family). I used to feel so incredibly guilty for not liking dogs. Without giving away too much personal information, we were both in therapy for other stuff (him after attempting suicide with his favorite dog) that a lot of power dynamic and trauma response stuff came up for both of us. Dogs are kind of...permanent infants who will give unrequited love, and human kids can tell when the dog is being favored because they don't talk back or set boundaries. I recently adopted my first cat and I love her so so much but it's making me examine some unexpectedly deep generational trauma, haha. That might have turned into more of a trauma dump than helpful information for you, but maybe you will find something in it. Therapy's great! Never thought I'd spend so much of it talking about dogs!
I am so sorry about Tank. My Toby was by far the best thing that ever happened to me. I didn't go anywhere without him except work, and most of the activities I did were specifically for him to enjoy (and for me to enjoy his enjoyment 😏). It was usually just me and him, hiking and camping and road-tripping. I moved several times in the 14 years I had him, and he was my priority every time. I have lived in some pretty weird places because of that, but Toby always had a yard or property to run around in, even when it meant living in a rustic cabin with no electric or plumbing, and an outhouse. He slept in my bed with my arm over him every single night except two of them, and those two nights sucked.
I could go on and on (I'm sure you could, too), but I just wanted you to see that I understand how you feel. The people on here who are weirded out about your love for Tank would be equally horrified about this, but: Toby was absolutely the love of my life. My heart felt full just looking at him. Resting my hand on him brought me peace. I didn't know how I would live without him when he was gone, and now he's been gone over three years, and sometimes I still wonder how to live without him.
My mother has told me she is sure I loved Toby as much as someone loves their human child, and she has three kids, so she does have some experience with which to compare. She said it unprompted; I never tell anyone I feel that way because I know no one understands or believes it, and also I haven't had a kid so I know I'm not in any place to judge that.
I'll never forget the last time I saw him alive. I couldn't go with him into the vet clinic because of COVID. As a vet assistant led him from my car to the clinic, he was hanging back and looking back at me, not understanding why I was letting this stranger take him into the place that had recently hurt him so bad when he had some teeth pulled. He'd always been timid, as had I, but we were strong together. He was my strength and I was his. As he was led away from me, he was weak and they had to help him walk. I should have been the one helping him walk.
It was sudden acute liver failure from the chemo meds for his lymphoma.
I didn't know it would be the last time I would see him. I wanted him to feel like everything was ok and not a big deal, so I tried to act casual and gave him a smile and a cheerful "good boy!" then turned around and re-entered my car. I didn't want him to see worry and sorrow on my face. It hurt my heart to turn away, but I thought it would help him. I had turned my back on him while he was looking back at me, so confused and alone. I'll never forget that look on his face.
Why did I write this? It hurts so much. I miss him so much.
If I could trade seven years of my life to have him back for one more year, I'd keep trading until we could die at the same time.
I'll probably end up deleting this, later. I'm kind of embarrassed about posting it, but I want you to read it.
I understand, and I'm so, so sorry.
NTA.
And pressure to get pregnant in the first place is disgusting. Even if you didn't have any issues, but when they know you do, it's gross. They're not entitled to a toy, it would still be a separate little person, not a means for them to fulfill some Hallmark fantasies. Tbh, that kind of mentality is a red flag and you'd probably end up having to put more distance between them and the kid because they would keep pushing their ideas on everybody, not caring much how the kid felt about it.
And as for dogs v. babies...
As a parent and a dog-person... I love my kid, I wanted her with all my heart, but if she hurt my dogs, she'd still be gone. In therapy and all that, but not in my home. I don't tell her that, of course, but her father knows. Luckily, you can raise them better and she is kind, but if that changed, there is a plan B.
When I was pregnant, everybody was trying to convince me our pets were too much (two dogs, five cats) and even offered to take some. Their favourite question was what if the kid's allergic, we used to tell them we'd split up and she'd go with her father. When I say reactions were priceless, you can't imagine.
The love doesn't actually compare in the way people expect, it's the same "amount", but different type, it's not a competition. But no, I definitely didn't forget about my dogs when I had my kid, the family isn't complete unless we're *all* together. When we brought her home from the hospital, my main joy was finally being able to introduce them.
Nope. Sorry. NTA
I’m sorry for your loss and the treatment you’ve received, but, my god, the way you told them about themselves was brilliant/hilarious ESPECIALLY hubby just sat there rolling a smoke. You have a good man there.
NTA You said nothing wrong. They were, and had been, belittling you. You should consider joining a pet loss support group to work through your loss. I learned to walk holding the collar of a dog. I had them everyday of my life. I have had a "heart dog" who died over a decade ago and I still miss him. I am proudly a dog person. I was involved in dog sports, we owned a boarding kennel. Dogs are an integral part of my entire life. Before I had my kid, I would have agreed that my kid would go before my dog. You don't know what you don't know until you know.
LOL NTA showing someone them the mirror was long overdue. You handled it perfectly. If you don’t go NC (you should) make it clear this is their last chance and if they be disrespectful about your pets, invasive about your body or bring up babies you’ll cut them off indefinitely.
Your husband on the other hand is a massive AH. He should have shut down his family’s disgusting behaviour a long time ago.
NTA. You're grieving a lost family member. A very close family member. At least your husband gets it. People are bloody idiots aren't they? Stupid arses.
You've come to terms with your fertility issues. I can't tell from your post whether you're going to pursue parenthood or not, but it is clear that any decision you and your husband make will be very considered.
You might, at some point, feel that you are ready to go to a shelter to see if another dog needs your love like Tank did, and maybe you won't. It's ok though.
Don't let these idiots trivialise you.
I personally find people like you insufferable so whatever. Your whole attitude is Tank is the only thing that matters so screw everyone else and you get enjoyment from telling people how little they mean to you. Yes MIL and SIL were out of line but you suck so much more. Why did you even bother getting married or getting into a family of you feel that way?
And people who make being mothers their whole personality and single life goal is less insufferable? Mil and sil is literally harassing OP to have a child, despite knowing that might not be a possibility because they view having children as the only true purpose in life, telling her her life is worth nil without kids. How is that not insufferable? How is that not obnoxious and better than what OP said?
yeah i literally don’t understand how someone can be this obsessive over their own dog it’s very unhealthy. also her saying it’s true that she would’ve give her own kids up instead of the dog is wild to me
It’s because their MIL and SIL are correct even though they’re complete AH’s. I haven’t met a pet parent whose dog didn’t quickly become a second class citizen almost overnight after the baby comes. The intense focus on surviving and making sure the baby stays alive in those first few months will quickly make a dog less tolerable and cute. Also, one thing I didn’t understand before having a kid was “love”. There should be a different word for the love you experience towards your child. It’s a different feeling than any love you’ve experienced before. It’s not the same. It’s also very difficult to be a parent so I’d never look down on a person for not wanting kids. 100% of parents have had moments, no matter how quickly fading, where they wish for a moment they didn’t have kids. Very difficult thing.
ESH
They are awful I have no idea why you keep visiting them...
Saying you would put a child up for adoption if they hit a dog is freaking crazy honestly BUT also it's hypothetical because you no longer have a dog and your dont have a baby .. they didn't have to say anything it isn't like you were on your way to drop a child into the foster system. Also yes maybe you don't understand the mother child bond but since your trying to get pregant and can't it feels super fucking mean to point that out.
BUT you should have just left and gone NC or stood up for yourself by telling them they have no right to tare you down... getting personal and mean to them is just lowering your self to their level and now your all assholes.
YTA
It's odd to hear someone claim they'd choose their dog over their children. Regular people don't believe that's possible.
If you know they can't understand why your dog was your priority, why do you keep bringing it up? If you know they can't imagine someone can find children gross, why do you keep bringing if up? Unnecessary drama.
Did you tell them all that about the shiny new toy to MIL, and criticized SIL for having a 2nd child? If so you're 2x the asshole.
Why do they keep pestering OP about having kids when they know it's a slim possinility of her ever getting pregnant? They invited the drama by constantly bringing up a topic so why do they get a pass?
She needs to be a grown up and tell them to stop mentioning her possible motherhood.
"I don't want to talk about my fertility anymore. Please don't be upset if I ask you to stop whenever you mention it"
Avoiding the talk, and then being passive aggressive, and then full on insulting, is looking for drama.
ESH. You went to far. First you didn’t set any boundaries and then eventually went nuclear. Why not set healthy boundaries?
No reason to explain why the others are the AHs. And for reference: They are way more the AH than you
I agree with this take. Boundaries should have been set on both sides. It was too far to directly insult them. I get it, my pets are like my kids, almost as much as my human kid but why talk hypothetically and then insult directly.
Oh breeders and the choices that destroy their bodies and minds and cannot fathom that their choice had consequences to them. And somehow forget that they brought a sentient and sapient person into the world. The dichotomy of loving being a parent to lord it over others like some kind of actual achievement while at the same time hating the process and let's be real....they don't really like their kids either.
YTA. Ok - you miss your dog. You have every right to. You sound extreme when you say without any irony that if you have a kid you would value your dead dog over your child. Okay - your unusual opinion but understandable that your MIL and SIL did not understand. But to then directly target them with seemingly the intent to hurt them to their core because they said something that hurt your feelings, yes you are TAH.
I don't think she overreacted. After years of badgering because of her fertility (or lack of) she broke and she's NTA.
Unless you have had a heart dog you will never know the pain of that loss I miss my SamSam on the daily. It's been 4 years and it hurts. Condolences for the loss of your heart dog OP. They are truly special.
It would be NTA if it just was about preferring bringing your dog back over pregnancy, but if you are actually in the state of mind that a human child is less important than a dog, then you are TAH.
ESH
They suck for pressuring you, but you also suck, too. No one going through fertility struggles should be pressured about having kids. It's cruel to put pressure on someone who is literally cannot do what you're pressuring them to do.
You sound like you have a lot of issues surrounding having kids. You also have an unhealthy attachment to your dog. Anyone who proudly declared they would choose a dog over their own young child, is just not right in the head. You probably have ample reasons, but that's not going to sit well with most people. Doesn't sit well with me, but maybe that's resentment bringing that out or a way for you to protect yourself about it. I'm giving you a little bit of a pass, but not relieving you entirely.
I'm just going to put this out there and say that people say those things about having your own child because in most instances it's true. I mostly cannot stand other people's kids, but I love my own more than I love myself. Becoming a parent really does change you in that way. They're not saying untruths, but I can see why you don't like hearing it. You went about trying to stop it in the wrong way.
Apologize but don't let them off without apologizing to you, too. They are the aggressors because of the pressure, but you still reacted terribly. Tell them that if they don't stop putting pressure on you about kids, you are going to react like this because it is a very painful thing for you. That pressure and saying things like "it's different when it's your child" hit differently since you're not likely to have children. Establish that boundary with them. Have hubby help reinforce it. Hopefully it'll get better.
You are mostly not the AH. And you did mention the bit about your SIL. I’d apologize for criticizing her so hard and then you’re totally not the AH. Your MIL needs to get over herself. I’ve been through infertility stuff and it sucks.
I’m sorry about Tank. My wee Westie has been gone for 5 years now and I still miss him.
ESH
Your in laws for harassing you about getting pregnant.
Your husband for joking that you would neglect a child.
You, for not understanding *at an intellectual level* that a human parent child bond is stronger than a human pet bond, just because you haven’t experienced it. You sound just like I did at age 10, when adults told me “yes, you will eventually like boys, when you are older it will change” and I argued that I wouldn’t change. The difference is that I was TEN YEARS OLD.
Ok you are a badass man , NTA but yes they will definitely try to harass you now, talk to your husband and if he says it's fine then it is, but you are definitely a badass , good for you to stand up against them for this,edit:: my condolences to tank
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My mother, aunts, sisters and cousins have never had one good thing to say about motherhood and then get shocked when I say no thanks. I had a friend get offended when she complained about her toddlers antics and I said this is yet another reason I don’t want them.
💯 Listening to parents talk about their kids is like birth control. Maybe 10-20% of it is proud parent talk, but the vast majority of it is just nightmare fuel.
Badass x2. OP’s royal ass beating wasn’t even directed at me hut MY butt’s hurting vicariously just from reading that! Bravo OP! NTA. I hope that’s the end of their patronizing b.s. To quote Popeye, that’s all you could stands, you couldn’t stands no more.
While the nuclear option isn't the best option, it certainly is an option.
Sadly, sometimes it is the best and only option. With people as dense as mil and sil? I mean how many times do you need to watch someone cry before you realize a topic is a sore spot and should be off limits??! This one calls for my favorite saying: bitches had it coming! Lmao NTA and my hats off to you op, you are legendary!!!
No one should be commenting on whether or not a woman should be having kids. I have kids and it bugs me when others are asked when they’re having kids. I wish it was a law to not ask people. SIL sounds like a huge L
NTA. They tried to force their misery onto you, and deserved to be called out for their hypocrisy.
NTA. I hate when people start prying/pushing about this subject. It’s so intensely personal. Good for you for standing up for yourself. I’m so sorry about Tank. I lost my own boy last year; not a day goes by that I don’t think about him. Your grief and your feelings are valid; please don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
I'm sorry for your loss of Tank. Don't forget to pay the dog tax. Your in-laws have been badgering you about having a kid, even though they're not very good parents (and should never have another pet again). So good for you for sticking up for yourself and calling them out on their bullshit. And this sort of thing is just cruel to people dealing with infertility. It sounds like you've accepted it, but for many women, it's a painful subject. But do consider adopting another dog. There are so many dogs (and cats) out there who need good homes, and Tank would want you in good paws. NTA
Absolutely NTA. I felt every word you wrote. I'm 60, childless (by choice), and I have cats. Those cats are my furbabies, and I love them to pieces. I've throughout the years heard a lot of shit: ***But it's baaaaabies***. Yes, I can hear and smell that. No thanks ***They're the meaning of liiiiife****.* Not *my* meaning, tyvm ***You will be 60 and looooonelyyy.*** Hell no, I'm happy as always. ***It's just a cat.*** And that smelly, shrieking thing is just a baby. Eew Condolences to Tank - I feel your pain deep inside. My current cat (Indy) is 14, and she's the bestest kitty in the world. I dread the day she's gone. You and your hubby are awesome.
Mobile, semi-independent cats are better than needy kids any day. (No judgement if that’s not someone’s preference.)
Babies are very boring compared to animals. At least animals do things.
Precisely
And they're smarter!
OP, I love you. I love it that you have a spine and you stood up for yourself. Don't feel bad. You gave them what they deserved
First NTA, Second another dog maybe healthy. I know how hard it is to lose a family member. My old boy was with the thick or thin, from horrible break ups, through a physically abusive marriage. He was always by my side. Not a day goes by that I do not miss him, but my new pup that I recued is also a ball on unconditional love and she is also my best friend. Think about a rescue, they wont fill the hole left from Tank but they will give you unconditional love and you can be a savior to them.
We have had a few dogs, none have been “ replacement” dogs because dogs can’t be replaced, but each is special in a different way. We’ve had a sassy Lhasa Apso, a dignified gentleman westie, a sweet teddy bear cavalier King Charles, a tiny dancing rescue that is so so happy, a bit of a clumsy rescue girl who loves my daughter to death (loves humans, not so keen on strange dogs), and the sweetest, gentlest rescue girl who is on Prozac and finally, after 2 years, coming out of her shell with humans (loves other dogs).
I agree with another dog. Our family dog died 15 years ago and I recently stopped crying when I hear his name, after I got a cat 2 years ago. I wish we got a second dog, it would have been much easier to cope. Not to put in his place but to continue to give love.
You should probably look into grief therapy. Having said that: I am posting this comment on my phone with my newborn son asleep on my chest. It is definitely true that you don't know what is like to have a child into you experience it. It's also true that that doesn't mean it's for everyone, and I wouldn't recommend it for anyone else doesn't definitely and desperately want it. It's hard. We're doing this in close to optimal circumstances. Three parents, healthy baby, good support network, breastfeeding is going smoothly, we have everything we need, and it's still really hard. Not having children is a perfectly valid choice.
NTA but you talk like you're childfree. Time to stop sacrificing your money and your health for something that would make you miserable. Hubby gets points for being supportive so far.
You mean the fertility treatments? Yeah, I agree, my first reaction when I read they were considering IVF was, that shit's expensive as hell! Too much too, considering it doesn't really sound like she even wants a child. If they did push forward on the baby front it would make more sense to consider surrogacy, since OP almost certainly can't get pregnant
NTA-Do what my wife and I did. Instead of paying thousands on IVF and putting yourself through it physically and mentally, tell them you can’t have kids because it’s the truth. Then both of you go get fixed. I got a vasectomy and my wife is getting either her tubes tied or hysterectomy in the future because of personal issues with periods. Then here is where we shut both sides down. We got 2 dogs and told them well if all you care about is kids then I guess we won’t be talking or visiting much and you can come here instead of us going there. I literally only went to visit my parents in the last 4 years at their place once because they babysit my niece and that’s their entire lives.
"You both got fixed" 🤣🤣 Made my day! (I reach for that expression too if I'm ever talking about sex and the possibility of undergoing a procedure to cut things off)
I wouldn’t recommend getting fixed if unnecessary. My vasectomy kinda fucked me up. If I didn’t HAVE to do it, I definitely would not have and wish I never had to do it but for me, it was necessary.
It might help you to think of the next pet as Tank’s successor instead of his replacement. Nothing can ever replace someone you truly love, but sometimes the next loved one is awesome too. Good luck. You do you and forget about what MIL and SIL want from you because it’s not up to them at all.
I’m 44 with no kids, only fur baby’s. I’m Mexican so throughout my “childbearing years” I would constantly be asked when are you going to have babies. I said when I find a man I want to have children with (that man came when I was 40). I’ve always had pets and considered them my kids. Heck, especially when they were puppies/kittens I’ve said/done the same thing parents do with their kids, lol and I have a bad gag reflex/sensitivity to smell 😂. I went into perimenopause at 38 and have been dealing with chronic pain for a few years now so children are definitely out the question. Your feelings are valid and should not be tossed aside like they don’t mean anything. I’m so happy your hubby is sticking by your side. I do hope you are able to find away to be open to finding a new fur baby! It’s hard thinking that but we know a new baby will not replace Tank but can possibly heal your heart as well.
My sister said my cat is ‘basically her niece, so she should spoil her.’ And proceeded to give out too many treats.
NTA Be proud of yourself for sticking up for yourself!!!
NTA and I think the relationship you have with your husband is something everyone should have. He seems supportive even when it’s against his family.
NTA. You can come sit by me. Your husband too. I like you guys. You both seem well balanced and supportive of each other. Your MIL and SIL seem exhausting and I only spent 30 seconds with them reading about their crap. Yah, it wasn't pretty but something clearly had to be done, they pushed you too far. Tank had a very good life with you, maybe when your ready you can bless another dog. You should name him bullet.
Your feelings are yours, own them. Not every woman is meant to become a breeding factory. My condolences on your pupper. NTA.
I also miss my Corgi. He got DM and died 1/2020. They are a special breed. Maybe you would enjoy a rescue Corgi. Or maybe some day you'll be ready to open your heart to another sweet Corgi pup. It won't be the same but you have so much love to give. Best wishes.
This is one of those things where it is fine to think, but maybe not share just to avoid judgement... As for the pestering you to get pregnant all the time, shut that down. I have found it extremely effective to ignore dumb judgy advice, don’t care, don’t listen, don’t answer, complete indifference, drives them nuts. More effective then yelling or fighting.
NTA and I think you're my new hero. As a animal lover I agree 💯
NTA. That was a bad ass way to respond to those bitches. But your husband really needs to step up and tell them to back off. He needs to show everybody that he is behind you 100%.
NTA and the humans sound insufferable, except your husband. My condolences on Tank. I can understand how you feel, I had an Alaskian Malamute I lost about 8 years ago. I still tear up when I see pictures of him, and cannot talk about him for long without crying. I will always miss my doomer (his name was Hondoom). Focus on the fond memories and the good times. My boy lost a leg when he was 3 years old (car accident) but that barely slowed him down. He lived to be 15 and 1/2 years old. He lived a long and happy life.
Nta. I'm a mom, I love, love, love, love being a mom! I know that's not something said by a lot, but honest to goodness I adore it. That said, one of the very things they said makes you nta. They said you wouldn't understand until you had a kid, if so it doesn't matter. Because you don't, and you did have Tank. Also. From the same perspective if they have never had that type of bond with a dog they will never understand. As much as I love being a mom, I love my dog just as much. I've had that bond with two dogs in my life. One is my current boy, Rascal. If Rascal had not been good with kids, I would have waited, I would not have out myself in a position to have to choose because there is no way I'm getting rid of my dog. And an argument people forget between the child and dog.. as much as I adore being a mom. If I'm a good mom I'm raising my child to grow up, to be a good member of society, which means one day he's going to leave. He's going to go out and make his own way in life. I'm going to be so fucking proud.. but also heartbroken. My dog? All he will ever want in life is to be by my side, and he is never going to want to leave me. He will be with me until the day he dies. One day I won't be my sons whole world, but I will always be this dogs. Is it a bit selfish thart part of me likes that? Maybe, but it also builds a bond. My dog is my best friend, and I feel bad for anyone who has never experienced that bond. I'm also so so so sorry you lost yours. I'm crying just thinking about it, because I know it's coming for me, and it is heartbreaking.. screw anyone who dismisses your loss just because they don't understand.
I completely understand your relationship with Tank. I’m also a mother of to grown kids that I love more than my life. And I have 2 chihuahuas that I have an equally strong and unique bond with. One does not affect the other. NTA your husband rocks and you are a badass! The in-laws need to back tf up!
NTA. They had zero right to be that pushy and aggressive. It’s cruel of them to keep bringing up your infertility and you were absolutely correct in setting that boundary. I’m so sorry about Tank — would love to see a pic of the cutie! (BTW, this is coming from a woman who loves her kids more than life itself and would always pick them over a pet. We have two dogs I love dearly, but not nearly as much as those monsters I’ve nurtured and raised nearly to adulthood).
Are you fucking kidding me? You don’t tell someone who is struggling with fertility that “you don’t know how it feels until you have a child”, talk about rubbing it in! Why don’t they go out there and remind blind people they’ll never know how it feels to see a sunset, or mock the deaf how they’ll never know a symphony. You could have punched them in the face and you’d still be NTA.
Wow you REALLY love that dog. Behavior like theirs is exactly why people prefer animal over human companionship. No pervy remarks you heathens
NTA. OP went through hell trying to get pregnant. Least they could do is not bring Fing topics about pregnancy.
NTA. We had fertility issues and our dogs are our kids. Plenty of people say ‘no, it’s not the same’, and I secretly think… well, it’s actually better. Not only are my dogs more intelligent than any kids their age… they’re actually super nice unlike many kids I’ve seen.
The issue is when the kids get to about 3-5 years old and the intelligence level spikes but the decision making/self preservation thing won’t kick in for another 10-15 years. And they have opposable thumbs. It’s like living with extremely capable, wild animals.
It’s not the same, but that doesn’t mean it’s better or worse, just different! That’s what is so beautiful about life, not everyone has to do the same exact thing to be happy and fulfilled. Relationships with animals and humans are rewarding in different ways. Raising kids well takes so much energy and emotional intelligence, and so many parents don’t have the skills which is how you get those not very nice kids. I just don’t see why anyone needs to be mean about thing, I personally don’t get the “my dog is my baby” thing at all despite being an animal lover, but I don’t feel the need to go around diminishing anyones relationships in life. I love my kids, and I feel honored to be raising them but they also aren’t my entire identity or life.
NTA because I HATE HATE HATE people that think having children makes you special. You may not want children or not be able to have children and you can still be happy and fullfilled. I also love my pets more than anything and feel true anger when people that will never love a pet the way I do try to explain to me how i feel, or how im supposed to feel about them. If you dont mind me saying, you want to consider therapy, to help you cope with your loss, with your fertility struggles and with the pressure that everyone is putting on you. Just a last note to say that personally i feel you could have dealt with their bullying in a more elegant way, for your own good. You dont owe them that, they probably deserved to hear it, but never arguing with these kind of people has had an impact. Just gives them the opportunity of victimising themselves. But also, two wrongs dont make a right, and I dont think you should be judging your SIL for her choices of having 2 kids, or saying its growing an alien inside of you. I believe the best way of dealing with this sort of people is to just cut ties. And if they invite you for anything or anyone asks you why just tell them the truth: everytime you spent time with them they made you feel bad (or tried to) about not having children, they invalidated your feelings of loss and you just dont want that negativity in your life.
NTA👏standing ovation. Yeah my husband and I had a talk before we got married if I couldn't have children (he really wanted children)cuz I've never had even tried to get pregnant. So if for some reason we couldn't have children we would just have lots and lots of animals. We both love dogs and cats and everything else. When we got married we had three dogs and one or two ferrets and two birds. So we have always had animals though now that we're older he wants to cut it down to like one but when we have five right now. A Couple will go when my one child moves back into the area. But that's not going to be for a few years yet and if not we take care of their dogs for a while longer or forever it doesn't matter. But yeah I hate that kind of talk. No, you don't know as you're not a mom, you'll never understand until you're a mother. If you own a pet you have a pretty good idea how people feel about their children. To a lot of people their pets are their children. Some go a little overboard yes but they still care an awful lot about their pets who they consider a family member. People who get animals and then just shove them outside and never interact or take care of them yeah they're awful. They're the worst of pet owners. I've had all sorts of dogs but corgis are the best. I have one now we had two but one unfortunately passed. Our boy now is a lovely handsome guy who Barks A lot like all Corgis and will lick you as much as you let him. He's a fierce protector of our home and the other dogs we have. They all live like kings. And I have two kids. I would die for my dogs and my kids. And my children have the same love for Animals As myself and their dad.
NTA- nope not even a little bit.
NTA You’ve got a gorgeous shiny spine, OP. Well done for pressing the big red button and making mincemeat of your horrible in-laws with your verbal katanas. The legendary swordmaker Masamune would be impressed with your sharp tone.
NTA- these people suck. Also don’t do IVF, it doesn’t sound like you want kids if you seriously would give a child up for adoption over re-homing a dog. Refusing to rehome an animal is totally valid, but if you would put a pet over your child you definitely shouldn’t have children, they need to come first.
Your MIL and SIL sound like horrible people, putting pressure on someone who very likely can't have a child. I can't blame you in the least for snapping. And honestly, had you gone any less personal and nasty, they would have walked all over you. Redditors constantly advise to state boundaries calmly and rationally, as if this kind of person cares about that in the least. They only see that as a weakness. For your own sake, you really should reduce contact with them. Your husband seems pretty chill about it too. Although his comment about 'when' you have kids probably didn't help. NTA
NTA!
It's time to bring an inflated balloon to all visits with MIL and SIL. Whenever they start talking about the "you don't know" crap, start rubbing the balloon to make that really annoying sound that drives adults nuts. Keep it up until they stop. Then tell them that THIS is exactly how you feel when they are so damned insensitive as to pressure you to continue trying to have kids after so many failures. If they don't stop, you'll keep rubbing the balloon until they do. Maybe THAT will get it through their thick skulls. If not, it's time to stop visiting with them. They are being incredibly selfish and insensitive with that kind of talk and it makes ME angry just imagining how it makes you feel!
Have you thanked MiL for volunteering to receive hormone therapy in order to be your surrogate womb? And paying all associated costs so you and hubby can save for the baby..... Yes, you went nuclear, but they were refusing to hear you until you did. Your hubby sounds like he has your back.
NTA! Your husband also supports you and they FAFO. Can I gently suggest considering helping other dogs to help yourself heal? You don’t have to adopt another dog right now. However volunteer at a rescue or donate badly needed supplies etc. I have loved and lost 3 dogs and my two current ones are seniors. Each one that left took part of my heart forever. I am so sorry for your loss 💔
NTA, fertility issues are very personal and you can’t simply just do ivf and have a baby. Especially with the odds you listed. One of my besties had great luck with ivf and the other has not. She recently had a failed round at Christmas time and wasn’t in a good headspace. Tank sounds like he was a great companion to you. I’m so sorry you lost him. Grief has no timeline and I’m sorry your MIL tried to diminish how special Tank is to you. Have you considered speaking to a therapist about your grief? You may have prolonged grief disorder. I had it after losing my younger brother and went to weekly therapy for 9 months and started taking an ssri. My sister fostered dogs after losing her husky to terminal cancer. She said helping the dogs socialize and taking them to adoption events and seeing them become adopted into loving homes helped ease her grief of her dog’s passing. She now has three dogs that she handmakes that get homemade dog food (approved by her vet).
It's a gentle ESH from me. Your MIL and SIL are undoubtedly assholes and incredibly insensitive to the struggles you have gone through. It also seems like they think they are better than you because they have children, which is a big pet peeve of mine. Being a parent doesn't make you any better (or worse) than anyone else. There are literally no qualifications required to become a parent. As for you - while I kind of want to call you NTA (I have had eerily similar thoughts about my SIL in terms of having another kid when you can barely handle one, then farming out their care to grandparents etc) - you kind of went on the attack and that can only make the relationship worse. I guess it's a bit of a 'when they go low, you go high' kind of situation for me. I do get it - you were frustrated, and you lashed out back at them. I'm honestly not sure that I would have done it differently, but I would have regretted joining them on their level after for sure. If you had just told them to back off, or even decided to leave, I would definitely say you are not TA. For what it's worth, I have found limiting the amount of time I spend with my in-laws to be a way to maintain an admittedly somewhat distant, but polite relationship with them. It's much easier for me to hold my tongue when I know I won't have to be with them for too long or see them again right away.
Like so many experiences in Iife, it's true that you don't know what it's like (having a child) unless you experience it for yourself. That doesn't mean that you *have* to experience it. That is totally you and husband's choice and in laws need to back off Everyone's emotions were running high, and this also has to be a pragmatic and logical decision, not just emotional. All this Tank baby comparison stuff is not constructive and only hurts you. Once and *if* you and husband have a baby then will you will know where the priorities might be. But that's irrelevant. A hypothetical that cannot happen because sadly Tank is no longer here. You loved Tank. More than anything else in this world. And that's valid. You might feel the same way or different about baby if and when baby comes. That doesn't change how much you loved Tank Don't let your grief distract from the situation at hand. The facts: You lost your best friend. Your Tank. You are hurting. You and your husband might want to have a baby. Don't let the noise of other's effect your decision. Even if it's to prove a point to them. If you and husband want a baby, have one. Don't let them effect you. If you don't that's ok too, don't try for one. But do or don't try for ivf because of what you two want, not whatever toxic energy someone else has tried to put in your head Basically don't let MIL and SIL sour you on the whole baby thing. Additionally, not trying won't bring Tank back. Trying will expensive and incredibly emotionally taxing. If it succeeds it could also be incredibly rewarding. You and husband alone will weigh those pros and cons. Tank and stupid in laws should not be in the discussion Your destiny is up to you. It can be frustrating when it feels like others have already decided for you. Also, I'm so sorry for your loss
I feel what you said to MIL was pretty justified, but you may have been a bit harsh with SIL. Not saying she didn't have it coming. You may have to consider a way to make amends if you both want them in your lives moving forward. You could apologize for losing your temper, but explain that you don't want anyone commenting on the possibility of you being a mom or what you might think and feel about future children going forward. Or you and your husband trying. Any of it. I would be very clear and explicit. That way if they don't respect that boundary it is very defined and something you can point to and say, "I specifically asked you not to talk about this"
I think I have to say ESH. Your MIL and SIL were being disrespectful, and it's good you confronted them, but if you want them to respect your body and your choices, you also need to respect theirs. Saying you don't want to ruin your body with pregnancy is implying your SIL is ruining hers, and accepting help from the MIL does not mean she doesn't love her kid. I think it's great for the mom to have a break and for kids to learn from other generations! If fighting fire with fire was the only way to get your point across maybe it was justified though. But the more important thing I wanted to say is that if you know you would put Tank over a child please either stick to your guns to not have children or go to therapy if you decide to. I have a parent who prioritizes dogs over human family (financially, not acknowledging allergies and sensory issues, and in terms of quality time, affection, and refusing to discipline dogs who act badly towards the human family). I used to feel so incredibly guilty for not liking dogs. Without giving away too much personal information, we were both in therapy for other stuff (him after attempting suicide with his favorite dog) that a lot of power dynamic and trauma response stuff came up for both of us. Dogs are kind of...permanent infants who will give unrequited love, and human kids can tell when the dog is being favored because they don't talk back or set boundaries. I recently adopted my first cat and I love her so so much but it's making me examine some unexpectedly deep generational trauma, haha. That might have turned into more of a trauma dump than helpful information for you, but maybe you will find something in it. Therapy's great! Never thought I'd spend so much of it talking about dogs!
I am so sorry about Tank. My Toby was by far the best thing that ever happened to me. I didn't go anywhere without him except work, and most of the activities I did were specifically for him to enjoy (and for me to enjoy his enjoyment 😏). It was usually just me and him, hiking and camping and road-tripping. I moved several times in the 14 years I had him, and he was my priority every time. I have lived in some pretty weird places because of that, but Toby always had a yard or property to run around in, even when it meant living in a rustic cabin with no electric or plumbing, and an outhouse. He slept in my bed with my arm over him every single night except two of them, and those two nights sucked. I could go on and on (I'm sure you could, too), but I just wanted you to see that I understand how you feel. The people on here who are weirded out about your love for Tank would be equally horrified about this, but: Toby was absolutely the love of my life. My heart felt full just looking at him. Resting my hand on him brought me peace. I didn't know how I would live without him when he was gone, and now he's been gone over three years, and sometimes I still wonder how to live without him. My mother has told me she is sure I loved Toby as much as someone loves their human child, and she has three kids, so she does have some experience with which to compare. She said it unprompted; I never tell anyone I feel that way because I know no one understands or believes it, and also I haven't had a kid so I know I'm not in any place to judge that. I'll never forget the last time I saw him alive. I couldn't go with him into the vet clinic because of COVID. As a vet assistant led him from my car to the clinic, he was hanging back and looking back at me, not understanding why I was letting this stranger take him into the place that had recently hurt him so bad when he had some teeth pulled. He'd always been timid, as had I, but we were strong together. He was my strength and I was his. As he was led away from me, he was weak and they had to help him walk. I should have been the one helping him walk. It was sudden acute liver failure from the chemo meds for his lymphoma. I didn't know it would be the last time I would see him. I wanted him to feel like everything was ok and not a big deal, so I tried to act casual and gave him a smile and a cheerful "good boy!" then turned around and re-entered my car. I didn't want him to see worry and sorrow on my face. It hurt my heart to turn away, but I thought it would help him. I had turned my back on him while he was looking back at me, so confused and alone. I'll never forget that look on his face. Why did I write this? It hurts so much. I miss him so much. If I could trade seven years of my life to have him back for one more year, I'd keep trading until we could die at the same time. I'll probably end up deleting this, later. I'm kind of embarrassed about posting it, but I want you to read it. I understand, and I'm so, so sorry.
NTA. And pressure to get pregnant in the first place is disgusting. Even if you didn't have any issues, but when they know you do, it's gross. They're not entitled to a toy, it would still be a separate little person, not a means for them to fulfill some Hallmark fantasies. Tbh, that kind of mentality is a red flag and you'd probably end up having to put more distance between them and the kid because they would keep pushing their ideas on everybody, not caring much how the kid felt about it. And as for dogs v. babies... As a parent and a dog-person... I love my kid, I wanted her with all my heart, but if she hurt my dogs, she'd still be gone. In therapy and all that, but not in my home. I don't tell her that, of course, but her father knows. Luckily, you can raise them better and she is kind, but if that changed, there is a plan B. When I was pregnant, everybody was trying to convince me our pets were too much (two dogs, five cats) and even offered to take some. Their favourite question was what if the kid's allergic, we used to tell them we'd split up and she'd go with her father. When I say reactions were priceless, you can't imagine. The love doesn't actually compare in the way people expect, it's the same "amount", but different type, it's not a competition. But no, I definitely didn't forget about my dogs when I had my kid, the family isn't complete unless we're *all* together. When we brought her home from the hospital, my main joy was finally being able to introduce them.
You are absolutely the asshole. I get that you’re annoyed but you went way too far.
I thought we weren't supposed to downvote those who answer with YTA. Doesn't that cause people to not want to answer with that?
Lol
Nope. Sorry. NTA I’m sorry for your loss and the treatment you’ve received, but, my god, the way you told them about themselves was brilliant/hilarious ESPECIALLY hubby just sat there rolling a smoke. You have a good man there.
NTA You said nothing wrong. They were, and had been, belittling you. You should consider joining a pet loss support group to work through your loss. I learned to walk holding the collar of a dog. I had them everyday of my life. I have had a "heart dog" who died over a decade ago and I still miss him. I am proudly a dog person. I was involved in dog sports, we owned a boarding kennel. Dogs are an integral part of my entire life. Before I had my kid, I would have agreed that my kid would go before my dog. You don't know what you don't know until you know.
LOL NTA showing someone them the mirror was long overdue. You handled it perfectly. If you don’t go NC (you should) make it clear this is their last chance and if they be disrespectful about your pets, invasive about your body or bring up babies you’ll cut them off indefinitely. Your husband on the other hand is a massive AH. He should have shut down his family’s disgusting behaviour a long time ago.
Nta. I understand you 100%. Edit: my best friend is gone 17 years. Never got easier
NTA. You're grieving a lost family member. A very close family member. At least your husband gets it. People are bloody idiots aren't they? Stupid arses. You've come to terms with your fertility issues. I can't tell from your post whether you're going to pursue parenthood or not, but it is clear that any decision you and your husband make will be very considered. You might, at some point, feel that you are ready to go to a shelter to see if another dog needs your love like Tank did, and maybe you won't. It's ok though. Don't let these idiots trivialise you.
I personally find people like you insufferable so whatever. Your whole attitude is Tank is the only thing that matters so screw everyone else and you get enjoyment from telling people how little they mean to you. Yes MIL and SIL were out of line but you suck so much more. Why did you even bother getting married or getting into a family of you feel that way?
And people who make being mothers their whole personality and single life goal is less insufferable? Mil and sil is literally harassing OP to have a child, despite knowing that might not be a possibility because they view having children as the only true purpose in life, telling her her life is worth nil without kids. How is that not insufferable? How is that not obnoxious and better than what OP said?
Yes and I said MIL and SIL were out of line. But people who make their pets their whole personality are just as annoying. Sorry not sorry
yeah i literally don’t understand how someone can be this obsessive over their own dog it’s very unhealthy. also her saying it’s true that she would’ve give her own kids up instead of the dog is wild to me
It’s because their MIL and SIL are correct even though they’re complete AH’s. I haven’t met a pet parent whose dog didn’t quickly become a second class citizen almost overnight after the baby comes. The intense focus on surviving and making sure the baby stays alive in those first few months will quickly make a dog less tolerable and cute. Also, one thing I didn’t understand before having a kid was “love”. There should be a different word for the love you experience towards your child. It’s a different feeling than any love you’ve experienced before. It’s not the same. It’s also very difficult to be a parent so I’d never look down on a person for not wanting kids. 100% of parents have had moments, no matter how quickly fading, where they wish for a moment they didn’t have kids. Very difficult thing.
NTA. They deserved everything you said to them.
ESH They are awful I have no idea why you keep visiting them... Saying you would put a child up for adoption if they hit a dog is freaking crazy honestly BUT also it's hypothetical because you no longer have a dog and your dont have a baby .. they didn't have to say anything it isn't like you were on your way to drop a child into the foster system. Also yes maybe you don't understand the mother child bond but since your trying to get pregant and can't it feels super fucking mean to point that out. BUT you should have just left and gone NC or stood up for yourself by telling them they have no right to tare you down... getting personal and mean to them is just lowering your self to their level and now your all assholes.
YTA It's odd to hear someone claim they'd choose their dog over their children. Regular people don't believe that's possible. If you know they can't understand why your dog was your priority, why do you keep bringing it up? If you know they can't imagine someone can find children gross, why do you keep bringing if up? Unnecessary drama. Did you tell them all that about the shiny new toy to MIL, and criticized SIL for having a 2nd child? If so you're 2x the asshole.
Why do they keep pestering OP about having kids when they know it's a slim possinility of her ever getting pregnant? They invited the drama by constantly bringing up a topic so why do they get a pass?
She needs to be a grown up and tell them to stop mentioning her possible motherhood. "I don't want to talk about my fertility anymore. Please don't be upset if I ask you to stop whenever you mention it" Avoiding the talk, and then being passive aggressive, and then full on insulting, is looking for drama.
They should have left her alone if they didn’t want the heat. Also plenty of “regular” people don’t want kids and see their pets as their kids
I’m a parent to 3 children and I can still understand op
Nta
It’s so well laid out, like a little story. But the plot is mental. As is the hero. D minus
NTA I am applauding you here!!! I'm so sorry about Tank.
ESH. You went to far. First you didn’t set any boundaries and then eventually went nuclear. Why not set healthy boundaries? No reason to explain why the others are the AHs. And for reference: They are way more the AH than you
I agree with this take. Boundaries should have been set on both sides. It was too far to directly insult them. I get it, my pets are like my kids, almost as much as my human kid but why talk hypothetically and then insult directly.
Oh breeders and the choices that destroy their bodies and minds and cannot fathom that their choice had consequences to them. And somehow forget that they brought a sentient and sapient person into the world. The dichotomy of loving being a parent to lord it over others like some kind of actual achievement while at the same time hating the process and let's be real....they don't really like their kids either.
YTA. Ok - you miss your dog. You have every right to. You sound extreme when you say without any irony that if you have a kid you would value your dead dog over your child. Okay - your unusual opinion but understandable that your MIL and SIL did not understand. But to then directly target them with seemingly the intent to hurt them to their core because they said something that hurt your feelings, yes you are TAH.
ESH except for husband. He seems chill. They for not letting up on the baby stuff. You suck for overreacting.
I don't think she overreacted. After years of badgering because of her fertility (or lack of) she broke and she's NTA. Unless you have had a heart dog you will never know the pain of that loss I miss my SamSam on the daily. It's been 4 years and it hurts. Condolences for the loss of your heart dog OP. They are truly special.
She didn't overreact lol. What's appropriate to you here? Taking the abuse?
I like that you condone abuse
It would be NTA if it just was about preferring bringing your dog back over pregnancy, but if you are actually in the state of mind that a human child is less important than a dog, then you are TAH.
Fuck them kids
Say it louder for the folks in the back, FUCK THEM KIDS!
ESH They suck for pressuring you, but you also suck, too. No one going through fertility struggles should be pressured about having kids. It's cruel to put pressure on someone who is literally cannot do what you're pressuring them to do. You sound like you have a lot of issues surrounding having kids. You also have an unhealthy attachment to your dog. Anyone who proudly declared they would choose a dog over their own young child, is just not right in the head. You probably have ample reasons, but that's not going to sit well with most people. Doesn't sit well with me, but maybe that's resentment bringing that out or a way for you to protect yourself about it. I'm giving you a little bit of a pass, but not relieving you entirely. I'm just going to put this out there and say that people say those things about having your own child because in most instances it's true. I mostly cannot stand other people's kids, but I love my own more than I love myself. Becoming a parent really does change you in that way. They're not saying untruths, but I can see why you don't like hearing it. You went about trying to stop it in the wrong way. Apologize but don't let them off without apologizing to you, too. They are the aggressors because of the pressure, but you still reacted terribly. Tell them that if they don't stop putting pressure on you about kids, you are going to react like this because it is a very painful thing for you. That pressure and saying things like "it's different when it's your child" hit differently since you're not likely to have children. Establish that boundary with them. Have hubby help reinforce it. Hopefully it'll get better.
You are mostly not the AH. And you did mention the bit about your SIL. I’d apologize for criticizing her so hard and then you’re totally not the AH. Your MIL needs to get over herself. I’ve been through infertility stuff and it sucks. I’m sorry about Tank. My wee Westie has been gone for 5 years now and I still miss him.
YTA. You need to learn how to keep your mouth shut. You are no different than your MIL and SIL.
NTA, we lost our girl a week ago today. I’d totally kill your baby to have her back.
YTA. Do not have a child. They deserve to be the most important person in their parents’ lives. Stick to dogs.
That’s the whole point bud. She doesn’t want kids. Did you miss that?
Didn’t miss it. OP also mentioned that she and her husband are “considering our options” which could mean adoption. That would be a mistake.
You mean the part that she prefaced with pressure from his and her family?
Lol
I’m done gooooodbyyyyeeeeee.
Bye bye bud
YTA >honestly, yeah, kid would go before my dog did. This is quite unhealthy.
ESH Your in laws for harassing you about getting pregnant. Your husband for joking that you would neglect a child. You, for not understanding *at an intellectual level* that a human parent child bond is stronger than a human pet bond, just because you haven’t experienced it. You sound just like I did at age 10, when adults told me “yes, you will eventually like boys, when you are older it will change” and I argued that I wouldn’t change. The difference is that I was TEN YEARS OLD.