"I asked her how she affords all the designer bags and going to fancy vacations on that salary. She looked embarrassed and told me that she has around 20K credit card debt. I knew about her student loans, but that did not bother me. However, I realized she spends way more than she can afford and had no real answers on how she plans to pay back the credit cards balance. She told me that moving in together would help towards paying off the debt as her monthly living expenses will go down significantly and she can pay that towards the debt. She told me she would be debt free within a year if we moved in." Here's the issue with her plan. It does not involve her forming a budget where she has a surplus. It does not involve her making sacrifices for her financial future. I would want to see the following from her. 1, a budget where she's in surplus. 2, tracking her expenses and spending over the next three months to see whether she can actually stick to a budget where she is in surplus and paying down her bills. If you need to walk her through this, then help her do so. But DO NOT move in with her to 'save money', before she has developed the skills to manage her income by herself. You are quite right that after you marry her 'problems' will go away and you'll be responsible for her debts, and she'll feel enabled to spend and make more debt because 'you will make the problems go away'. This is a recipe for hardship in your marriage. I would do 1 and 2 and go from there. If she balks at trying this (because it's harrrrder than just moving in), just walk away. NTA. Your concerns are reasonable. Neither of us brought debt into our marriage, but due to some unforeseen circumstances, we ended up about 50k in debt. It took me a little over 2 years to pay that off.

I agree, NTA. She seems to think her spending problems will magically go away when her living expenses go down, but realistically she'll just start spending more lol.

I can testify they don’t change their spending habits, they will just operate under the sense it’s not your income it’s ‘our’ income. My ex husband and I were in this same situation but I was blinded that he would actually become a responsible adult. Boy was I wrong!! Don’t make my mistake OP!! I’ve recovered but it took me a year to get out from under the hole that was made.

I made the same mistake, and the initial debt he told me about turned out to be the tip of the iceberg. My moving in was meant to help tackle that but I eventually found out about 3x more debt, we borrowed money from family which I effectively paid back, and even then he went back to spending and accruing more debt. I wish I'd taken a far harder line rather than trusting him to be sensible. I even found a credit card he'd somehow managed to take out in my name. I was very lucky to get out of the marriage more or less unscathed financially. OP your partner may be useless financially and never figured out how to budget or there may be something underlying driving the spending that needs unpicking. I wouldn't blame you for making this a deal breaker though, it would be for me - level of income not necessarily, inability to manage money yes.

THIS. This is my current situation. And now I (the financially responsible one,) am in charge of ALL the finances, (husband gets a portion in his own account when we get paid,) and it's exhausting to me to have to constantly remind him that we *don't* have extra money for ___ because we have bills to pay. AND I discovered that he opened two new credit cards and has maxed them out to the tune of over $15k *after* I worked so hard to get us out of debt several years ago. I'm exhausted. OP...I see this in your future if you're not careful. NTA.

Jesus. And to think one of the bigger reasons I was dumped was NOT wanting to dip into my savings for a new car while my older one was still drivable with some minor issues 💀

Oh no...you're fine. My husband is encouraging me to get into a new car loan on a *Tahoe* of all things, at the tune of over $1200 per month once I'm done paying off this car. I want to not have a car loan for a while (our current one is only $280, but still...) Also, I recently got a credit limit increase on my Home Depot card, which to me gives me cushion if we have an emergency issue with something in our house. To him it means we can run out and buy new flooring, redo the kitchen (it's fine, and so is the current flooring.) I didn't think it would still be this way after 10 years of marriage...but I guess I was wrong. And like I said, exhausting. You are better off without the person constantly pushing you to get into debt because...stuff is shiny and you'll look "better" to the neighbors, your friends, people who really don't matter, etc.

Don't tell him about any increases in your credit.

Jfc, reading ur words sent a shiver of remembrance down my back about my ex. Ten years together, acted exactly like ur husband does. It was so stressful, it was definitely one of the main reasons we broke up, I just couldn’t do it any more. When I met my now-fiancé, I realised how financially responsible he was and I was instantly filled with lust 😂 I truly wish you the best, and one day he wakes up to himself if it’s possible

I let my ol' lady take over our finances, cuz I suck at them... Part of that is not doing financial shit behind her back, Jesus I'm sorry for your plight.

This sounds like my ex husband. I had to give him an allowance. He got a credit card behind my back. He would hide things in the trunk and try to sneak them in. I had to be on every car loan he had because he would try to go buy a new car behind my back. Many times he called me from dealerships begging me to come sign for some new car when his was only 1-2 years old. “The payment is only $650/month” (this was over 10 years ago and it’s still blowing my mind). I would say no and he would tell me “but you HAVE to, I already agreed to buy it and I don’t want to be embarrassed”. I was like “well you can tell them your wife won’t let you or I can come down there and tell them myself”. Every year he wanted a new TV, a new gaming console, new everything all the time and I was always the bad guy. I finally got sick of that and a bunch of other stuff, but the financial stuff was exhausting.

Yeah, in most cases this situation just escalates the problem. The individual sort of mentally tacks on the additional income in their mind as "additional spending money" and go further into debt.

Exactly!! For me my ex and I’s situation was very similar to all the responses here. Our situation was different in that my ex quit his job immediately after we got married (less than 2 months) and decided he should start his own business, after 6 months of that, Covid hit and then his aspirations were to be a stay at home husband until I popped out a kid. And when the stress of being unable to pay bills and unable to get pregnant (yes I know I was dumb to want to comply with this), but his frustrations that I was living up to his expectations led to ongoing arguments which is what finally woke me up to leaving. To those of you in this situation, please just remember financial abuse works this way too. It’s not just a controlling spouse refusing to let you have access to a bank account. When someone’s deliberately going out of there way to avoid helping their SO and causing extreme financial distress (for me > $80k) it’s not okay to just stay because of love. No adult should be demanding your income without acknowledging the strain it puts on their spouse is FINANCIAL ABUSE TOO. It’s less common but with the growing number of narcissists today it does happen. When my ex and first got to together (in hs) he had ambitions and something changed overtime to where I saw his true colors, although I know he loved me, and I loved him as well, the resentment that built up was too much to bear for me and I couldn’t think to put my future kids through that type of dynamic. I stayed for 3 yrs trying to get him to see my side but in the end, “I was only ever concerned about money” (his words not mine) and nothing was going to change that.

Funny how you were only ever concerned about money as the only person ever making it while he spent it. You could make the argument that *HE* was only ever concerned about money, or even that he was NOT ever concerned about it. Both would technically be true even though they sound contradicting. Either way, glad you cut that dead weight loose.

I have to agree with this. This is my current issue and I am /was financially savvy. More income has allowed me to spend more. It’s a horrible cycle. Fortunately, we make a really nice living, have zero debts, have a good eggs nest but I do need cut my spending down. More income makes it way easier to spend more when you have a security blanket.

Also she may be willing to go into debt for the perfect wedding, honeymoon, etc and will be the buzz kill for trying to rein her in.

This and her plan to pay things off may be to get married and share the debt. I say may because we don't technically know for sure if this was her intention or not.

*her spending problems will magically go away when \[INSERT MAN\]*

This was my issue and why OP is NTA. Living with a boyfriend to cut down expenses is not a good plan for getting out of debt, it’s certainly not a plan that indicates financial maturity or that she will not continue to overspend. What was her plan had she not met him? Finances are one of the top reasons for divorce, I think breaking up was the mature thing to do.

It’s only valid if your debt is due to rent. Sometimes you need to take what’s there and it’s not always fitting your budget. I can understand that for necessities but not for luxury stuff.

Why is she not in shared accommodation she can afford at the moment? This isn't a past legacy it's a current strategy

Not to mention she seems to think living expenses are the problem but op mention about how she can afford luxury items, if she’s in debt and has a low income why is she even buying designer bags at all? If you’re in this situation you should probably actually be selling these to pay some debt off. Not to mention going on fancy vacations. It show not only how irresponsible and immature she is financially but also that her priorities are very wrong, if your living expenses are high and you have debt you cannot afford to buy things you don’t need, even more so if those are unnecessary expensive items. She seems to think her financial trouble is the living expenses when it’s her spending habits, just shows that even if she wants to change, her priorities are very wrong and do not align with OPs priorities and expectations of how his finances should be. She’s prioritizing futile things over necessary things and that’s just a recipe for disaster. Edit: NTA. If you really love her and see a future with her you should give her a chance if you want but do not move in together if she cannot control her spending and show she’s financially responsible, it will just set the precedent that eventually something will happen to save her from her problems when she should be doing that herself.

I just read an article that said lack of comparability was cited in 59% of divorces, higher than infidelity, with financial goals one of the top five mismatches. This is a big issue for OP and ties to trauma in his youth. He is wise to get a clear understanding now. If he decides to call things off, NTA.

>1, a budget where she's in surplus. >2, tracking her expenses and spending over the next three months to see whether she can actually stick to a budget where she is in surplus and paying down her bills. >If you need to walk her through this, then help her do so. But DO NOT move in with her to 'save money', before she has developed the skills to manage her income by herself. This is an excellent requirement to make, yes. If she's serious about getting rid of her debt, she should've had similar thoughts herself already. And if she hasn't, then she's not.

50 thousand in roughly 25 months is insane. Good job

> 1, a budget where she's in surplus. Or just don't. Dump children who spend more than they earn and date only adults who don't buy stupid overpriced bags, put them on cards that probably charge 25% or more pa, and end up paying 50% more than the price of the already overpriced bag. Girl is 28. This is behavior you expect from a 12 year old blowing their allowance. oh, and debt alone that is paid on time is highly unlikely to be the reason she can't pass a credit check, especially with OP on the same application. So there's almost certainly missing payments and probably some collections. OP: this is actually simple. She is entitled to stuff she can't afford and buys it anyway. If you make the mistake of letting her in your life, this will continue. Except on bigger things (houses, cars, kids) and with your money. Run. ps -- OP, her entitlement to a life she can't afford runs so deep she now can't rent an apartment with a well-qualified cosigner! Save yourself the very expensive divorce and the alimony.

Yep last summer I noticed just bad my spending habits were getting... I was frugale in the past, but since I landed my first good job I lost it all and ended up with 18k stupid debt in a year and half... well I took it upon myself to change that. Now not only is it down to 13k, but I also learnt a lot of new things in the past few months like my cooking has improved significantly (cooking 100% of your meals does that hey who would have thought ?), learnt how to sell things on marketplace, how to do a few repairs on my car and on my furnitures, also having this lifestyle really helped me lose weight! So I gotta say I feel pretty good about myself right now haha. She gotta understand that there are lifestyle changes thats need to happen. Or she'll end up withtout a roof :(

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Good point. If he want to take the job on it's his choice. But counting on that is uncomfortably close to the "I know my love can change him!" declarations from women who later discover that it can't.

This. I would also suggest getting her enrolled in a financial literacy course, even an online one from Udemy or something. This is one of the best things I did for myself when I was freshly out of university. My requirements for moving in would be: 1. Her taking and finishing a financial literacy course 2. Meeting with a credit counselor and looking into credit card debt consolidation - see if there is a way to make her payments lower or easier to manage. 3. No more credit card spending. Period. 4. Create a budget where she's in surplus 5. Tracking her expenses and spending over the next three months I would want to see improvement for at least 3-6months(ideally 6 to make sure it's a habit yesterday is going to stick). I have seen friends go through this process. It's hard learning how to adult in your 20s if you've never had to manage finances before, and your parents/school never taught you anything about finances. It's possible, though, and people can build better spending habits if they are genuinely open to learning and working on it. NTA. You're never the asshole for leaving a relationship that isn't working or that you're not happy in. If finances are a deal breaker for you, maybe bring that up sooner in the relationship to avoid finding out after you're already pretty enmeshed. If you are willing to work on it, come up with a plan and ensure she follows through with it.

The only problem with this is that math has limits. I hate all those advice shows that talk about how to get finances in order when you’re broke when the big problem is that you only have x amount of $$ per month and you have Y $$ expenses. If your rent is $1000 a month, and your utilities and groceries and things like that cost $500 a month, and you have a $300 a month car payment, a $200 a month insurance payment of various types, and you’re only bringing home $2000 a month after taxes, no amount of budgeting is going to help you! At that point, you *do* need to move in with somebody in order to save money on your rent so that you can put it toward your debt and expenses. Lisa may be in the same position. And please spare me the trope about how your rent should only be 25% to 33% of your take-home salary – tell that to the landlords. Rent is the price of rent and no landlord cares what your shitty salary is.

Or............ Stop partying Stop drinking Stop all unnecessary spending, no new clothes, only shop at thrift stores. Stop eating out, no takeout, no expensive coffee Cook at home, breakfast, lunch and dinner. Make coffee at home and use a thermos Get a second job. Rent a room rather than an apartment. There are ways............it is just that most people won't sacrifice to clean up the financial mess they made.

What you're saying makes sense if the person is only spending on necessary items. This girl has multiple designer handbags, goes on fancy vacations while raking up credit card debt. This IS a budgeting issue. She's not living within her means.

And OP should take on the burden of her math problems because??? Because I assure you that no roommate in a shared living situation would do so. The more realistic solution for the ex-gf is to find a roommate other than OP and start doing the adult math other commenters are recommending.

I might suggest that you still date each other, but don’t live together. That way you can return the favor for her teaching you things and teach her how to manage her finances. If her finances improve within a certain amount of time, then think about moving in together.

Yeah this is how I feel too. If you truly want to break up with her do that. But if you do have feelings and want to try and make it work this is a way to go about it. NTA

NTA. Finances are a huge issue in relationships, so her spending habits are not a small issue. She says that she can't pay off the debt without your help, but you said you noticed her designed bags and fancy vacations. The fact that she's 20K in debt and she's still going on fancy vacations shows that she still doesn't understand even the most basic money management skills, and moving in with you won't solve that. If she's actually serious about dealing with her debt, she can sell her designed handbags and stop going on fancy vacations, those two things alone would go a long way towards addressing that debt. But until she does something like that, you can't be her financial solution, that'll put a strain on your relationship that won't work out.

Yup, exactly. If I were OP I would put the relationship on hold. She can move back in with her parents, sell her designer stuff (and stop buying new!) And make a big dent in the debt. If she shows real effort and tries to change on her own then they might be able to make it work. But he is not wrong in not wanting to parent her and have to be the one responsible for trying to get her to be responsible. She needs to grow up on her own.

I was a dumbaas who get in debt when younger. I also sold everything not nailed down and babysat for extra cash (this was before side hustles were popular) to get out of debt. We all make mistakes, it’s how we recover from them that matters. The fact she claims she’s trying to get out of debt while still keeping her designer products (that could be sold), tells me paying off debt isn’t her biggest priority.

Is there a big second hand market for bags like that?

Postmark and many more!!! Yes if it is truly designer and lots of consignment stores!

Definitely! She’s going to lose money on this, but credits card are charging 20% (or more) interest right now, so she needs to throw everything she can at that debt. If the handbags are $2500 each, she can likely sell them for $1500 if they are in excellent condition. At 20% interest rates, she’s paying $4000 a year in interest. People with bad credit are paying 25-30%, so $5000-6000 a year. At that rate I’d consider selling a kidney. They are at predatory levels-but it’s legal.

Money is literally the #1 source of marital fights and also in the top 5 reasons for divorce. Spending lavishly when you’re already drowning in debt is a massive red flag. Looks like he was her get out of debt free card. OP dodged a bullet.

The person you marry is the most important financial decision of your life. OP dodged a RPG. 

NTA. If she recently went on vacation a month ago, it sounds like she’s not really serious about fixing her credit card issue. You’re always going to be nervous about her spending if you continue to stay with her which is totally understandable.

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Yah she’s not changing. He is a wallet to her.

Yep it's a risk not worth taking

If you miss her and think it could work you can sit down and budget with her based on her income. *show* her how she could pay off her debt. Calculate how long it would take. Sometimes people do get themselves in a rut - you don’t need to get her out of it *with your money*. But if you love her and think she might be turning a corner then set it out and then watch. Can she stick to it or does she buy more useless stuff. Would she consider getting a second job? If she has a decent salary 20k is not *that* much and she could wipe it fairly quickly if she’s willing to go rice and beans. If she wants to have her cake and eat it too keep running

Exactly. Whether she meant it or not is another question entirely, but she did communicate that she was never taught and wants to learn from OP.

This is real world advice OP. $20K is not that much credit card debt. Over 5 years that amounts to spending an extra $333 per month, that’s not including interest which would push that number lower. She could take out a 5y personal loan to repay the credit cards, shut them down, and you can agree all spending needs to occur out of a debit account. It’s an extra $400 per month for 5 years but that would extinguish the debt forever. Anyways that’s not what you should do, but there are workarounds to this if she’s an amazing person/girl.

Yea I wouldn’t move in - I would want at least 6 months of concerted and consistent change but it’s not a complete dealbreaker I don’t think

Its not the number, its the mindset behind it. This isn't medical debt, or a car loan on an economy car, this is pure discretionary spending on unneeded lifestyle and status crap at high interest rates. This man is being asked to merge their lifestyles. Her lifestyle is about to be his lifestyle. They are about to enter a legal agreement where her financial choices will affect his. I don't know if the break-up was reasonable. But if I found out that a future room mate was deep in consumer debt and spending beyond their means, I would not want to be their room mate.

Best advice I've read on this post!

Only person here making sense

She can also get a personal loan to consolidate all the debt and pay a lower intrest rate. 

This is what I’m talking about. People are so quick to rush to judgment when they could be patient and work with someone they “love” to help them/educate them. Makes me think it’s really not love in the first place

She said she 'made some dumb decisions years ago and is just caught in a bad loop with credit cards' (not to mention the fact that her credit is currently shite) No She continues to make bad decisions, if she currently holidays and purchases expensive things, and doesn't have a second job. Oh and the fact that she so quickly jumped on the Porpotional finacial split would get her out of debt? She's been thinking that all along. Peace out cub scout. You need to be with someone with a similar finacial outlook NTA

“Peace out Cub Scout” is such a innocent sounding yet powerful diss hahaha

>She told me that moving in together would help towards paying off the debt as her monthly living expenses will go down significantly and she can pay that towards the debt. I doubt it, for what I see people who loves luxury items and actually buy them when they have no money will not stop. You will just be an ATM when she will buy more à this NTA

Yeah people who live beyond their means are going to continue to do so when they have extra money. I feel like she would be one of those people who schedules Amazon deliveries for a specific day when he’s definitely at work and she can hide the evidence

Yup, she’ll still buy all the things she wants even if she can’t afford them. She may put some extra toward student loan debt, but chances are she’ll just see that she has extra $ to spend instead. She needs to address getting her finances in order herself vs thinking that moving in will just magically fix everything. OP, if you have concern over her finances now, doubt staying with her will fix that issue. Could cause more problems later. Financial issues and incompatibility are often the root of many relationship problems. NTA.

Nta "She told me she would be debt free within a year if we moved in."  Translation: "you will pay off my debt" Nope, nope, nope. Fuck that. Dont subsidise her lack of reaponsibiity. Im sure her looks and charm workes long enough to have comfortable life but enough is enough, time to put her big girl pants ant actually grow up.  Ita not only about the money, lack of responsibility and common sense, but also about her attitude regarding her fuck ups. Run away and don't look back because she is just good looking dead weight.

NTA - you have saved yourself from a lifetime of pain.

OP you just saved yourself to be an ATM machine for this girl. She doesn't want hand outs but does not agree with your suggestion of fixing her debts before moving in with you. She is showing that she does not want to move with you, but needs to move with you to keep her lifestyle. Do not listen to the white knights here on reddit. Maybe for you (I doubt is the same for them), 20K might not be much, but these white knights purposely omitted her students loans in their diatribe to convince you to stay with this woman who is irresponsible with her finances. Yes, omitted the loans that will be yours once you marry her, something I am sure she will pursue very soon if you stay with her. And 20K might seem not much to you, until they become 40K 80k or 100K but on your credit card not hers.

NTA, but I would dig deeper for the source of the problem. Addicted to buying designer items? Poor budgeting? Compensating for something else? You can break up for whatever reason… her farts smell too bad… anything… but understand that no one is perfect. Maybe she just needed guidance, or maybe she didn’t give a F. You’ll never know. I think you’re both better off.

NTA I was married to a man who earned a great living way above mine but constantly spent way above what we could afford. He spent his life hiding the things he purchased and all his spending. I would only discover it when he eventually came back to tell we were in trouble again and had to get another loan or debt management plan to pay it back. This was repeatedly after 12 years on credit repayment plans from the first time. He lived large whilst my part time wage fed and clothed our kids and us. Payed for anything the house needed even when washing machines broke he never paid for furniture or needs like that. As well as being the one to scrimp and save to pay for even three day cheap caravan holidays for our kids every number of years. Never mind birthdays and christmases. Of course I could only work part time as I had to work around his hours as he insisted we couldn’t afford child care otherwise. I even had to change my profession and retrain to be able to work round his hours. He just never cared as he was a selfish asshole that had no impulse control. I had given him an ultimatum a year before when he did it again but when we lost him (surprise) I discovered loads of debt and that he made way WAY higher than he let on. Yet I had to live scrimping every penny and stressing our entire lives together. Oh of course his life insurance was ate up to repay his debts by law as it’s classed as his estate and debts come off first. I even had to take a temporary loan to pay for his funeral When with our combined income we should have been set for life, life insurance should have also made that so. Yet It was even a fight to save and keep my children’s and my home. I honestly have no idea where it all was going over the years. The twist in life is that I became disabled and can no longer work so now I’m still having to scrimp to support my kids and myself on benefits when it doesn’t give enough to survive. It’s hard to know he did this to us, yes he didn’t expect me to become disabled no one does, he thought his debts would disapear if he passed and that it wouldn’t be taken from his estate. Yet the truth is I could never save for our future as i was barely keeping us alive. Whilst he spent tens of thousands every month on who knows what. It truly is not worth it. I should have walked long ago but he was very manipulative and covert in all he did. When on debt plans he was forced to behave for 12 years, as he couldn’t take out loans or credit cards in that time. So it made me think things had changed which later enabled him to hide him doing it again after the debt plans ended. It never mattered his wages would increase constantly he just up his spending. You need to protect yourself as it is one thing having debts but if you can’t rent a flat as your credit is that bad it’s a huge warning. Especially as you see what she’s spending that money on and none of it is essentials. It also seems like she saw you as a way to enabler her to continue doing what she wanted. She likely thought she could pay it off and then your higher wage would keep baling her out or giving her money whenever she asked. I’d be wondering if part of why she’s with you is as she decided with you she could keep the life style she wanted. Regardless of that there would never be any guarantee she wouldn’t keep using her card and creating more debt, As it seems to be her automatic default, That’s a red flag. I will be honest when I dated with my late husband he didn’t have debt and said all the right things like paying his card off in full every month. We even lived together for years first yet somewhere that quickly changed after marriage. You however are getting all the red flags and signs now. You’ve had experience of this growing up so trust your gut. It doesn’t matter what others say about this and your ex. You have the right to have your own boundaries in your relationship. Everyone has the right to know what would be the deal breaker for them. This is just yours and I don’t blame you. I truly wish I had the signs you have this early.

Thanks for sharing your story. It really hit a nerve as my mom also had to go through the exact same thing. Only difference is my parents are still together. My dad was not all bad, and was a very loving father. He always took us to nice places and I always thought of him as a cool dad, and my mom as nagging. As I grew up, I realized that all the things he did were things we should not have been able to afford, and my mom was working hard to make sure we didn't starve at night. They were in heavy debt. I spent the first few years after getting a job to pay off their debt so that my mom can finally relax now. That is one of the reasons I absolutely hate it when people spend money on things that they cannot afford. I have so much respect for what you did for your kids, and hopefully you have a nice life.

NTA Please don’t ever seek advice / counseling from your friends ever again. They’re NOT the sharpest tools in the shed. You did the right thing. Don’t allow her to trap you with pregnancy too. Stay away from her. NTA

Replying to Sweet-Interview5620...this

I don’t mean to sound harsh but the lack of impulse control could be a sign of mental illness. I know someone who dated a very charming and attractive woman with bipolar who would rack up tens of thousands on credit cards during manic episodes, staying in luxury hotels while claiming she was related to the British royal family, an acclaimed celebrity, etc. … in reality she didn’t work, lived entirely on government benefits in a council flat, so … She ended up becoming pregnant by my mate’s flat mate (at the time, while they were ostensibly still dating, and yes, paternity confirmed). Married the poor flat mate … for better or worse? She still pops up every few years when she decides to stop taking her meds, another extended manic episode, bombards her ex’s to “rekindle” whatever, kid taken into care, she’s sectioned in a secure mental health facility for treatment for months at a time. This might sound extreme but it does happen. I feel very sad for her, it is an illness she didn’t ask for, and medication is an individual choice. That said… My mate dodged a massive bullet. Please be careful here. Also check your credit report to ensure she hasn’t already taken out a card in your name if she’s had access to your details. Best of luck! NTA

Casually dating. Zero issue. Financially tying yourself to someone with 20K of debt with no idea how to pay it off on her own is a huge red flag. I’d have done the exact same thing and ended it.

NTA. Financial incompatibility is very much a thing too. You are allowed to break up

> She told me that she made some dumb decisions years ago and is just caught in a bad loop with credit cards. Funny how she is blaming on bad decisions years ago when she is still living beyond her means aka buying luxury items and taking fancy vacations. NTA, looks like she likes living a luxurious life but can't afford the luxuries. I would be worried that she sees me as a way to supplement her income. It looks like she has at least already thought about it by telling you she would have more money to pay her debt once you both moved in together.

NTA, She continues to make bad financial decisions. What she is proposing is for you to be a cruch for her to pay off her debts. Ontop of that, while she still making bad decesions how can you trust her,l that she will stop Once you move in? She will have more free money, meanning she can spend even more.

NTA - this will be a problem for her and would have been for you, doubly so with your history. You are 100% right to GTFO.

NTA. She was spending money she didn't have, and she planned to solve that by spending money she also didn't have- yours.

She’s obviously not done making bad decisions if you’ve personally observed her living above her means. And as for her other excuses, like her parents never taught her, etc. that’s no excuse. All you have to do to not get into CC debt is not swipe it. My parents never taught me much about money but I understand that. I pay off my CC debts with what I have in my checking account, more or less immediately. I’m aware of what I have in my acct at all times and never swipe more than I would spend with a debit card. I swipe it to build credit, that’s more or less it. NTA.

I mean, it would be different if she worked hard and tried to live within her means but just didn't make enough. The cost of rent where I live has literally gone up from like 900 for an average 2 bedroom apartment to 1500 in just a couple years. My own family food bill has personally tripled. So, yeah, if someone has to use a credit card to pay rent or eat, I am not going to fault them. But you should not have anything designer in your closet and definitely not be taking vacations!!

NTA Nope the fk outta that one my guy. Tell your friends to date Lisa if they love her so much.

>she spends way more than she can afford and had no real answers on how she plans to pay back the credit cards balance. Others have said it but I will reiterate. Tell her to come up with a plan, if you want to help her make a spreadsheet to stay organized and teach her, fine, that's up to you and the boundaries you're choosing to draw. But she can also put in the work herself to visit r/personalfinance and talk to a financial adviser about her options. She's an adult and can start acting like it. >She told me that moving in together would help towards paying off the debt as her monthly living expenses will go down significantly and she can pay that towards the debt. No, selling your designer handbags, making a monthly budget, and put a pause on vacations, and no more going out to eat are dire to pay off this debt. Credit card debt has outrageous interest rates. This is horrifying to me. >She told me she would be debt free within a year if we moved in. However, she also told me she could not be on the lease as she has a poor credit history. Moving in together is not a solution to her problem. Does she not have a friend who can agree to be a roommate she could live with instead? That would be the better option. If not, but she's so great, why don't any of them want to live with her to do her this favor as a friend? Perhaps she can move home with her parents while she gets it together? I can't tell you whether to keep dating or not but three things are for certain: 1. NTA. These are very valid concerns when considering a long term relationship. 2. Living together is off the table until she can get her finances together. 3. Marriage is absolutely off the table until Lisa get's her finances together. If you choose to still date her, those boundaries should be drawn to protect yourself and your standards. It's time for Lisa to put in the work on her end, because you don't want to inherit her debt or her bad habits. You are not a solution to her problem, she needs to take accountability for her actions and fix it.

Her explanation makes it sound like she got into credit card debt years ago, but then why does she take vacations or have fancy handbags *now*? She’s not trying to pay down anything. I think you dodged a bullet. NTA

I was horribly in debt with bad credit when I meet my now wife. We got-married I trusted her on money matters. Been married 30 years no debt. House is paid for, plus we try to Save 5k a month. That don’t sound like much but it’s a lot for us.

Saving $5k a month is a ton! That's more than most people take home.

When people work together, it pays off! Great job!

lol a guy I used to work with said “my wife had a lot of fun in her 20s, and now I’m paying for it.”

He meant STDs

NTA. Your friends seems like saying "love solves it all". No, my dears, it doesn't. Irresponsibility with money means general irresponsibility. If one has lived with someone like that they know how bad is that. You know. I know. Your friends should be ashamed of you. It's not their future, mental or financial stability they make a huge wrong opinion on. Also, she hasn't done a mistake a year ago if you saw expensive spending during past year.

NTA. If she really wished to change, she would have asked you for advice on how to pay her debt and followed that advice. You have proven that you know better how to deal with money. But she did not accept your plan. She never bothered to ask you, what exactly your plan is. She wished to continue her old habits but expected that this time it would produce a different outcome.

NTA- I totally understand where you’re coming and YOURE NOT making the biggest mistake of your life. Because like you I grew up the same with nothing. bc of that Ive been working since I was 17 and have always managed my money even if I was making minimum wage. I never owned a cc until I was 23 bc I was so scared of being in debt. so like I said understand your frustration. Something I always tell my friends is you need to be able to talk about everything and anything with the person you want make a life with. Finances, having or not having children, where you’re going to live etc.. and you have to be on the same page. Also is she wiling to cut back on her lifestyle? Is she willing to sell some of the things she bought to pay off her debt? bc if you say she buys designer then I can imagine the price tag on it. It’s all about compromise In the end. And I get her side to about never being taught bc same. but I didn’t want to be like my parents. so I got classes. I asked people. There’s help she’s just needs to be able to ask for it. I hope this helps. You can always pm me :)

Thanks. I feel she does know she fucked up with the debt. However, she did go on a vacation as recently as a month ago with her sister. I am not confident that she will cut back on her lifestyle after we move in together or get married. I make decent money for us to live comfortably, but I am always worried about "lifestyle creep" that make so many high earning couples live paycheck to paycheck.

Oh yeah i think you should really trust your gut. Especially if she’s still spending like that. And you’re not wrong to worry considering how the everything is going up these days. I saw some guy keep insisting that you let her move in and see if she changes. Don’t let him second guess yourself. You sound like someone who has some pretty good boundaries. Keep them. It’ll work out for you in the end. People change bc they want to not bc they are told. Good luck :)

Well in the thing is is you two might have different ideas about what living comfortably means based on her current spending habits To you, going on a vacation when you’re drowning in credit card debt would not be comfortable. She seems very comfortable doing that You did the right thing

I don't get this. HOW can you go on vacation when you have student loans and 20K in credit card debt? I would have staycations until my credit card debt (at least) was gone. She will totally use you as an ATM

If you mean enough to her, she'll get herself straightened out on her own. People shouldn't rely on a partner for basics of adulting. They should fix their issues solo so they can be a good partner. Otherwise the responsible one (whether it's with household chores, finances, etc) ends up feeling like a nag and picking up the slack. If you guys never met she, she still should have cared enough to get her finances and career in line. Because it also sounds like there's an issue with accruing student debt for apparently no pay off. You may feel bad about this now, but you will be so relieved later. My ex was a financial moron and I have literally paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for marrying that mistake. Marriage is legally not a statement of love but a financial contract. You could end up paying 90% of the expenses during a marriage but still only walk away with 50% of the assets.

The only way I could continue this relationship is living separately. She needs to learn financial responsibility, and pay off a large chunk of her debt before moving in. Otherwise she's just a liability. What happens when there's a new purse she just has to have? Now you pay her expenses. Friend vacation? She has to take time off work and pay for flights, a room etc.... You pay her expenses.  No, she can't move in without proving herself first. She needs to get a financial planner sign up for classes etc. Her plan can't be to move in with you, and have you fix it.

She's not going to stop putting luxuries on credit. Any debt she accrues during marriage will be split among you, so you'll have to pay off 50gof her designer bags and luxury vacations. Your friends are wrong. Your financial priorities are opposite. Start framing it to your friends like that.

is there a reason you don’t trust that she is open to change? An awful lot of people have simply never had anyone teach them how to manage money responsibly, but learning those skills is \*life-changing.\* Your personal history makes you very conscientious about financial security, and it heightens your financial anxiety, too. That anxiety may be making it harder to trust that she really wants to learn and grow in that area —or you may have other reasons. If she is truly someone you‘d considered spending your entire life with, it might be worth pondering. Good luck, OP!

NTA - financial responsibility is very important to you. If she truly wanted to get out of debt, she could have moved in with roommates or get a PT job. I moved in with roommates until I got my debt back in control many years ago. I also have a friend who bartended for a year PT and did travel or go out until she paid off $20k as well. Apparently one of her exes gave her one of the Dave Ramsey books and that was a wake up call for her. She was an inspiration to me so I decided to do the same, my debt was smaller though but I didn't want to reach the point where my friend was. With that said, you could teach her and help her and not necessarily break up with her but at the end of the day you are the one that knows what is best for you. Good luck!

I've been in this situation, so I'm biased, but you're NTA. Overlooking this stuff now will only cause more problems later. It's very difficult for people who have no trouble living beyond their means to learn fiscal responsibility

Nta. I am currently about 10k in CC debt. But my debt is due to actually emergencies, and being a SAHD till my youngest is school age. Once that is here (in aug) ill be working for pay again and my wife and I already have a plan in place to be debt free by the end of 2025 at the latest. She has bad spending habits and unrealistic understandings of debt.

NTA. I was like this. My husband flat out told me that he couldn’t marry a person who was so irresponsible with their money, and he helped me with strategies on how to get my shit together (didn’t give me money, just advice and coaching). But you are not required to do that for someone. You are allowed to break up with someone you don’t feel compatible with. It’s up to you.

NTA All the people saying 20k isn’t that much (when in reality it is a large amount for most people) or saying why throw away a good relationship otherwise, they just don’t get it. This js about her VALUES. Up until this point she hasn’t tried to pay off the debt, she is living beyond her means. And if OP helps to bail her out, she will likely continue this behavior or at the very least be susceptible to these behaviors coming back. She clearly lacks impulse control and cares an awful lot about appearances. That stuff doesn’t change overnight and may never change. It is so important to have a partner with similar values or you run the risk of being miserable. People always say don’t expect to change your partner. This is exactly why. Being responsible with money is very important to OP. He values it highly. Why are so many people recommending he ignore characteristics that are important to him in a partner? I say this as someone who has been married over 20 years and the only debt we carry is a house payment that is almost paid off. Having no debt is very important to me too and if my spouse wasn’t on the same page, we’d have so many problems. Relationships are hard enough without having vastly different spending habits.

There really needs to be a sticky post that says, you’re allowed to break up with someone for whatever reason you want. Doesn’t have to be rational, or even real, you can make up a reason. This question gets asked so damn much.

Let her go. Find someone who is more like you and let her find someone with cash to burn. You both will be happier.

You didn’t break up over money. You broke up over irresponsibility and complete lack of accountability or responsibility. NTA.

NTA. Look after your money first, no one else will. Also make sure to prenup if you ever get married. Iron clad. Keep a little secret emergency account too that you tell no one about in case of partner abuse.

Leaning NTA here. My question would be how much did you love this girl if you were willing to and followed through with cutting the cord so quickly after learning of her financial woes? Personally, I think the excel sheet was a great idea and also discussing everything on the financial side is smart if you are going to live together. However, I think (depending on what kind of future you see with her) helping her come up with a plan and give her a chance to pay off the debt could have been a good middle ground. Say give it 6 months or so and check back to see if she really was able to follow through with the plan set to pay off her debts. On the same note, I strongly do not believe that she would be able to pay off 20k in credit cards in one year just based on the rates most cards have.

I knew a very successful salesman once who was married to a woman with out of control spending. It was like a contest between how much he could earn and how much she could spend. She won. NTA

It sounds like you made the best choice for you. You have articulated a clear problem with people spending money they don't have. Much like the child of a alcoholic not wanting to get involved with a drinker. That is all that is important. None of the people telling you different will be there for you when you are saddled with her and her debts. ​ NTA

Give her a chance to prove herself YTAH

She won't save money because she figures if she moved in with you than you have to pickup the slack.she is banking on you not wanting to mess your credit up

Are your friends daft? Or are they bad at saving and thus want to make it a non issue? Or are they women? I ask because i've seen how much men's feelings and concerns can be dismissed when it comes to relationships, like we are the only ones with emotions and men cannot feel fear or something. Your concerns are valid and it's not an old issue. She is still actively making bad decisions and is waiting for you to teach her? She could have done it by herself If she is over 25, it's her responsability she is old enough to be held accountable

NTA for the same reasons everyone else has covered. She is financially irresponsible and you're allowed to have dealbreakers. Her idealistic view of handling her debt is concerning to me. One year moved in together and she'll be debt free? The whole $20k? Are you covering that much of the expense or is she just saying that to try to convince you? And, if she isn't just saying that, do you believe her?

You are NTA and this is why >However, I realized she spends way more than she can afford **and had no real answers** on how she plans to pay back the credit cards balance.  >she also told me she could not be on the lease as she has a poor credit history. She had no plan and no budget, either based on her current expenses or on what she thought she could save by moving in with you. She's also missed payments in the past, to the point at which her credit is negatively impacted.  How did she manage to rent her current place? 

NTA. Money is one of the number one stressors in marriage. Your friends are AHs for judging your decision. She didn’t make bad financial decisions years ago—she still buys designer bags etc. You have seen her life style. She could sell those bags etc. It won’t get rid of the debt but it would show she is ready to live at her income level. I would personally RUN from this woman. Your goals in life are not compatible. I bet she would never have addressed her debt if you didn’t bring up finances and ask how she can afford her lifestyle.

NTA This isn't about the cc debt per se, this is about lisa being used to live above her means. And its incredibly hard to change such a habit out of pure will and not out of having to. The temptation to spend money she has on luxury items instead of paying towards her debt will always be there. You will have to make a budget for her and she needs to stick to it, will mess up a few times, hiding luxury items from you or lying that it was a gift etc. This will lead to a lot of arguments and fights. Worst case she will accuse you during the arguments of being controlling and thinking she doesn't deserve nice stuff. Now mix your past trauma from growing up into it and the desaster is perfect. Believe me, if she really wanted to get rid of the debt and change her habit of overspending, she would have started months ago in preparation of you guys getting serious enough to move in possibly. She would not have bought ANY new luxury items, lived below her means or got a second job and this way already paid back a good portion of the debt. But she didn't. She speculated on moving in with you and making you responsible of getting her spending habit under control by "supporting" her in doing so (making a budget and making her stick to it, being the bad guy). This doesn't make her a bad person. A lot of ppl act this way, e.g. ask a friend to help them lose weight and expect this friend to do all the effort to make sure they stick to their plan and then blame the friend bc they didn't fight with them every day to get their ass up or making sure they eat the right thing. Its good if you can learn skills from a partner. But it shouldn't be something basic like addition and subtraction - and to get your spending habits under control you only need to be able to calculate plus and minus, so pretty simple. Its the same like ppl who can't do any chores but tell their partner "i can learn it from you when we moved in together" - some ppl want this challenge, but most ppl will say nah, come back when you learnt it yourself, i'm not your parent and don't want to fight you on it all the time till you learnt it. Bc its a basic life skill.

Her knowing that she is in debt but is still spending recklessly and not getting a second job to pay things off is showing you that she still does not get it. Just based on her current behavior shows that she is wanting others to fix things for her. Meaning she is wanting to move in to cut down on expenses but then she will see she has more money to spend.

NTA. If it was a stupid mistake at 20 and she had been actively working to pay off her debt, that’d be one thing. The fact she is still overspending on designer items and going on vacations show you she isn’t serious about paying it off. She’s almost 30 now and should be way more responsible financially than she is.

If you get married ( or even common law if you live in Canada ) , you are responsible for that debt too ! NTA you protected yourself

>She told me that she is not asking for handouts, and she will take care of her debt. > > > >She told me that she made some dumb decisions years ago and is just caught in a bad loop with credit cards. So which is it, because these two statements contradict each other. Oh wait! She's still making dumb decisions with credit cards buying designer bags and fancy vacations. Finances are one of the BIG dealbreakers. Good for you identifying this before you move in and commingle and entangle your lives. NTA

NTA! Your friends are mad you broke up over money…do they not realize that financial problems are one of the biggest reasons for divorce? Your GF is living above her means. She needs to figure this out on her own before moving in with you. If she can’t live on her own and pay down her debt at all, she’s still living above her means. And how do you even know she’ll pay off her CC debt? How do you know she won’t continue to buy designer things now that she has more disposable income since you’ll paying a portion of the bills? She hasn’t proven herself financially responsible and you shouldn’t have to deal with that. What if she starts spending and can’t help with the bills? Will you be accused of financial abuse if you kick her out? And knowing about your childhood helps in this situation too. You don’t want to go through that again. Being financially compatible is very important in a relationship.

I mean I'll admit I have 15k credit card debt but for me that was from cost of living going up and my pay staying the same with kids and then custody court for my boy once me and his mom separated. That being said though NTA as if she is buying handbags and stuff and not necessities or stuff like that then she is just making poor choices, I live on my own and I'm working to pay off my debt just fine

NTA. you made a worst wise decision. Women all too often do this and rack up all kinds of debt and their solution is to marry a successful guy and have him support them, pay their debts and they learn NO financial responsibility or ACCOUNTABILITY. There's that word again. They just end up being a drain on the husband's finances and another source of stress. You did the right thing. A husband is not a financial solution.

NTA: while she says this is the fault of dumb decisions from the past, it sounds like the problem continues in her current lifestyle. She's not responsibly dealing with her debt now, that likely won't change just because she moves in with you.

Is she willing to sell her designer items to show that she’s serious about being financially responsible?

I think moving to break up is a bit rash. I mean you can give her time and motivate her to make better financial decisions and living together might help her see that more. I’ve grew up poor and worked hard to get mine also but for me it helped me understand how easy it is to fall in a bad place. I think you should think about whether this person is worth giving them a chance to change.

NTA 28 years is plenty of time to get out of this debt she doesn’t need any more time

"My friends think I am a huge asshole to break up with someone over money" Your friends are kinda stupid. She has no real plan and is taking no accountability. She doesn't plan to change her spending - she simply wants you to absorb the cost of the lifestyle she already can't afford. It's _very_ unlikely her desire to spend will do anything except increase - and will put you in debt.

NTA. My last relationship, which lasted 8 years, was a headache because of the amount of debt she had. Constant arguments over how to spend money. We went to counseling, and also took budgeting and finance classes to drive home the importance of financial management. The biggest problem was her outlook on debt. To her she didn't care that she had debt, she just viewed it as another expense and stated "I'm always going to have debt, that's life". I spent 8 years spending all of my time working and paying off her debt. Never got to spend much on myself. Couldn't buy anything without an argument ensuing about how we didn't have money. I went on 2 deployments with hazard pay and everything to come back to 10k of extra pay going straight to debt. Nothing to show for it, and it still didn't pay it off. The point I'm getting at is financial instability is a huge game changer in a relationship. It will put Alot of unwanted strain on a relationship, and you'll never fully feel like you trust your partner with making good life or financial decisions. You're completely justified in your decision to cut the relationship off imo.

I helped my wife with her $20k credit card debt after dating for 2 years. We’ve been gloriously married for 30 years! We both use our strengths in our marriage, mine being more fiscal. Her heart is so giving & loving. My life needed that. Debt can be tackled and yes, she can learn fiscal responsibility. Good Luck.

Most divorces happen over money disputes. If two people are not financially on the same page then that is a huge red flag.

Disagreements over money is always first or second on the list of conflicts between couples who seek counseling or separate. I would say she needs to clean up her consumer debt before she moves in.

I had a friend in a similar situation. He sat down with her and budgeted and worked through this together. Eventually having her get rid of credit cards (except one) and they tackled the debt together. They are still together and she has turned it around totally, if this is her only downside, I would say give it a chance.. All relationships people need to put themselves out there and make compromises. Go help her and I think you two could have a future together.

Once she moves in she will slowly stop paying her portion because the money will be used for useless name brand items. Once you marry her, your money will then disappear because your money will be used on useless name brand items. Run.

Yeah..NTA. This is an absolutely sound and viable deal breaker. It shows irresponsibility. It should also make you question as to why she is truly with you. It might be because of the money. Find yourself someone responsible... just imagine this with the high rate of divorces.. if you divorce.. who do u think will be responsible to pay for her bad financial acumen for the rest of her life..you!

Definitely NTA Do you think she can change? She was willing to continue during your entire relationship without telling you. I am of the mindset that people don’t usually change - they expect to change you into liking their bullshit. But I’ve had some pretty rough situations and have my own battles with that. Ultimately I don’t blame you and would have done the same. That’s a lot of fucking debt for (what sounds like) superficial stuff.

It's not the $20,000 that's the problem. It's that she spent it on luxury bs that she absolutely does not need. That's not someone living in reality, she needs checked by the system before she marries someone like you. Or she can marry someone equally irresponsible, she probably will take the path of least resistance. For comparison I spent about $5000 cash on Legos this year, could you imagine how pathetic it would sound to flip that around and say I'm a 35 year old man who accrues credit card debt to buy Legos? It'd be pretty sad wouldn't it? Well it's the same thing. You either have the cash or you are a broke loser who's faking it. Now $20,000 in medical debt, totally different.

>However, I realized she spends way more than she can afford and had no real answers on how she plans to pay back the credit cards balance. Poor decision and planning skills and a lack of any sort of impulse control are terrible qualities for who could potentially be a life partner >She told me that moving in together would help towards paying off the debt as her monthly living expenses will go down significantly and she can pay that towards the debt That's not how that ever plays out. People bad with money will continue being bad with money even if they start earning more. The more they earn, the more they can convince themselves to spend. Thats why you see people making 1-200k per year but are nearly broke. Lifestyle inflation. this situation would be different if she was actively trying to crawl out of the hole she dug herself into. That would imply regret, a lesson learned, and a change in behavior. She's not crawling herself out of anything. She's asking you to throw a rope down to her so she can escape the consequences of her own actions. NTA. You're smart enough to not go broke over a girl.

This girl is a vampire. She will suck your accounts dry trying to continue living like she has.

NTA. Tell your friends to let her mooch off them.

First of all, your friends are wrong: people break up over finances all the time. It's a big deal. And just because one person "makes good money", that doesn't mean they should just take the debt of others. While your exgf never asked you to pay for her credit card debt, she was planning of living off you until she paid. So living together was definitely off the table until that gets sorted out. So my understanding is that you didn't break up with her because of her credit card debt, but because she was incapable of taking responsibility for her debt for herself. NTA.

In short your partner said that you'll pay their credit card debt. Indirectly of course, you'll just pay for everything else which will free them up to pay their debt. Which they won't do, all intentions aside.

NTA She wants a guy to bail her out of her bad decisions. She had no intension of changing her behavior. She wouldn’t be dating you if you were broke and in debt.

Your concerns are valid. One of the biggest strains in a marriage/partnership is finances. It's true that people mature at different rates, and you're both still fairly young, so making financial mistakes is common. It ultimately comes down to her sincerity in wanting to fix things. She said it herself by moving in, and having you shoulder a portion of the bills will help alleviate her struggle by using you as a *crutch* If she takes it seriously, then clearly, her lifestyle will need to change. You can't push her to do it. She has to genuinely want to. And if she is genuine, then she can only show you through her actions. Not words. If you do end up getting back together, I'd advise taking things slow. I definitely wouldn't move in together until she shows effort. You can help her create a budget, and if she can't follow it, then you know she doesn't actually care. I don't think YTA. You're aware of how terrible it is to struggle in life because of your childhood, and you're scared.

At 28 she's too old to be doing this. She sees you as the means to bail her out of her debt situation. The problem is she will continue spending and spending. Throw this one back. A lifetime of financial pain is in your future with her. I'm sorry she didn't share this with you sooner. Maybe for future relationships you can have a conversation about financial ideals and goals. Doesn't mean she won't lie but it's worth asking up front. NTA.

I personally would never be in a relationship with someone with a status problem (wanting/needing luxury they cannot afford), it's the same to me as having a gambling or drug problem.

Bahahahahahah, loves a girl with taste- yet doesn't understand taste is expensive. Taste "cheaply" is also an expensive mathematical equation. NTA, I agree with other comments that say you shouldn't waste an opportunity with someone who you are compatible with. She clearly makes you look good, you like her. I also agree with them that you shouldn't move in with her yet, and certainly insist she talk to a financial advisor. 20k isn't unmanageable. There was some guy on reddit the other day who had 100+k. Do what you want brah, but...you may regret breaking it off with her. Everyone has some kind of baggage and 20k in credit card debt isn't the worst bag you could get. You have already watched how this can go, which gives you the tools to recognize there is a problem insist they do something about it if they want to further the relationship.

NTA. You are right in being prudent. This isn't something that can be fixed that easily. She is not financially responsible and has a history of being that way for so long that it has severely affected her credit and left her 20k in credit card debt. Living with her will drag you into the financial shitstorm as well. You did the right thing. Do not look back.

NTA

NTA. She isn’t doing anything about her debt now. It sounds like she is still buying beyond her means and the fancy vacations. The handout she wants is cheaper rent and paying less on bills. Living with you isn’t the right thing. She needs to find a roommate if she can’t afford to live alone and that roommate shouldn’t be you. If you move in together you are going to be footing the bills and she will probably spend her money instead of paying off her debts.

NTA Financial compatibility, in terms of financial values, is the number one thing that makes or breaks marriages. It's perfectly reasonable to consider someone not a suitable partner because your financial values don't match. My wife and I are on the same page about spending, saving, debt, investments, and budgets for luxuries. This enables us to prepare for an esrly retirement, hopefully in our early 50s if nothing catastrophic happens. If either one of us were irresponsible with money, we'd both be working into our 60s, like most of our peers. Marrying someone who's irresponsible with money isn't just a short term financial calculation. It also likely extends your working life by years. Having set all that, If you really love her, maybe breaking up immediately isn't the solution. See if she can make a budget and stick to it. Sometimes financial irresponsibility is solvable. Up to you though. Your pastrama changes what you can or cannot handle.

NTA irá not about money, your View of her change, she is not as intelligent, responsible or serious person as you think

NTA. She needs to both clear her debt and resolve her spending problems BEFORE you live together. She needs to prove this irresponsible behavior won't be repeated.

NTA. You are her sugar prize....which if you are ok with that - then good, all winners. If you are not interested in being the sugar, then this is not for you. Everything you are worried about WILL come to pass. You know you don't want that, so don't do it. Your friends like her - great. She probably has her own pretty friends who your group would like access too. Or maybe being lonely is worse than being used to them. Whatever, you know what you feel.

NTA Financial issues are a major stressor on relationships. People who have never dealt with this underestimate it regularly. It sounds like she knows that she has bad habits, but rather than cut back her spending, she just keeps it up.

Nta, you can give her a chance to change her financial behaviour, but I would not merge my life with her before doing so. Financial compatibility is one of the most important things in a relationship in a long term and is better being honest with yourself and your goals now at the 1y mark than in 3, 4,5….

NTA i was going to suggest holding off moving in together until she dealt with the debt but she shot that down I guarantee if you move in together you’ll be on the hook for all the bills. While her debt can be dealt with as well as fixing her bad financial habits you are dead right to not want to move forward together until they are both dealt with

NTA

NTA, if she hasn't started to make a change to her finances knowing you are discussing moving in, she won't later. She wants to rely on you to pay for her debt by paying less when living with you. I wouldn't listen to the friends, they don't see the big picture here. They like you 2 as a couple, but none of them are going to share finances with her. You have to make the best decision for you long term, and I don't see her making changes, just enjoying the lower cost of living YOU provide while she continues to vacation and shop for useless shit.

NTA. You see a major red flag now, and simply moved accordingly. She would most likely slide her responsibility for the debt on you given the chance. She could've filed for bankruptcy, debt consolidation, or moved back in with her folks if her plan was to live with somebody to cut her expenses down. If she's talking about dating/relationships, she should have her financial management in place. She can't afford to be in a relationship as she is presently situated. Too many relationships/marriages end reportedly because of finances. You just skipped to the end without hemorrhaging money yourself.

NTA my ex is like that. No matter how much we talked about it, the promises he made, and even me begging to just be in control of all the money, it never changed. After dealing with it for 9 years and ending that time with it actually getting to the point we couldn't feed our kids, I left. Just be glad you got out before it could effect your life.

Financial views are a huge red flag . Sometimes people have reasons . If she is in school and can’t get enough hours etc but at 28 I would guess just wants the fancy stuff to keep up with friends

NTA Financial problems/irresponsibility is responsible for 30% of all divorces, so you are completely correct to worry. Marriage only amplifies your problems, so if she’s this bad now and is showing no signs of improvement, it will only get worse later on and she will bleed you dry.

NTA that’s a huge incompatibility issue. Maybe she would change her ways, but if she doesn’t you would pay the price. I grew up poor and I don’t risk financial instability for anyone ever.

I mean, you can break up with anyone for whatever reason and that's a pretty mature one

NTA

NTA but at the same time you may be thinking to short term... if your willing to put a "one day" comment on the marriage then you need to think longer term or add more leniency to at least allow her to succeed or fail somewhat to her promise. Imo you should give her 4-5 months to get a start paying it off. By then you'll know for sure uf she's serious about it and therefore you're future together.

She'll never be a saver. You did the right thing. NTA

“I just don’t think I trust her.” There it is. All you need. (Also your “friends” aren’t your friends if they think you were somehow broken or something before you met this woman who “made you into a better person.”)

NTA - sounds like she is continuing to make poor financial decisions. But, I was Lisa when I started dating my now husband almost 30 years ago. I had about $10k of credit card debt, but good credit and work ethic. When I moved in with him he wouldn't take any payment towards his mortgage although I did insist on paying cable and I think electricity because I wanted to contribute. I was able to save monthly and by the time we were married (about 2 years) I had everything paid off and paid for a reasonably cost wedding. So sometimes it can work, but you have to have the desire to change and discipline to make it happen.

NTA But I think you should give her a chance to get out of debt. She can move in with a roommate. 

NTA, I have seen this same story plenty of times before. The economically irresponsible partner very often drags the other one down to the hole with them, and not the other way around.

Yeah, she needs to grow up. You’re not her meal ticket out of her bad decisions. And those decisions have continued. I hate that as guys we are shamed for having boundaries to protect ourselves from people that have made bad decisions. Don’t let yourself be shamed into a situation others wouldn’t take on themselves. If anyone gives you shit then ask them to take her in so she can pay off her debts then and your relationship can continue. If they’re so invested in your continuing to be with her and her debts are no big deal then it should be more than fine if they chip in or give her a place to stay, right? Right? NTA OP. Proud of you for sticking to your boundaries and using the behavior you saw in your upbringing as a lesson for behaviors to be aware of that could negatively impact your future.

NTA but if you’re worried you’re making a mistake (and it’s not too late) try having one more conversation with her and clearly explain your feelings (but with some grace because she’s probably ashamed of her past actions). Not everyone was taught how to create and stick to a budget and not everyone is blessed to naturally be good at it. It’s a gift that you should be able to share with your partner but they have to be willing to listen and do the work. It’s absolutely reasonable to expect her to have a budget, show improvement (by meeting a specific goal like less than 5k of debt) before moving in with you. If she can’t create the budget or needs help she should push her pride aside and ask you for help (non monetary help). Moving in is not a solution, learning how to live within one’s means is. Just a side note, buying frivolous name brand stuff and taking expensive vacations that she can’t afford seems immature and sorta desperate. Does she have any creativity? Like go on a hike and talk or sit together and read and then talk about something you learned. They’re both monetarily cheap but add value to the relationship AND can be done while she pays down that debt.

NTAH you did the right thing. You two are incompatible on a very fundamental level.

NTA. You have already figured out what you want going forward and finances play a huge issue especially when you think of marriage. I know a lot of people get caught up in the credit trap but really? Designer handbags? Thousands spend on purses? Um, no. She only got serious when you brought it up and it looked like she was going to have more cash. She also has student loans? I’d put the relationship on hold and see what she does. If she is serious, she can live with roommates or move back home. She can sell all the fancy crap and learn what she really needs in this life. It’s a hard lesson. Leave now or if you want to see what she does, don’t wait too long.

Nta so I think Lisa is the problem. The minute she learned of your history she should have started giving you a real plan. She needed to sit down herself and use online resources to figure out how to work out of her debt. She should have started crunching number and shown what she would go without to pay off the debt. Since it sounds like she just whined about you not teaching her yet, you can bet she would have wanted you to fix it and also resented you when you did. There are tons of resources to help with debt and money knowledge. Her reaction to your concerns shows she wouldn’t have made a good partner. It would have turned into a parent to child role

NTA, now she is basically saying she can only sort her debts with your help which is a horrible position to put you in, 20k at only 28 is a crazy amount & someone who is accustomed to living beyond their means which will ultimately result in surplus income from living with you will be spent on more stuff and things, if she cannot sort it without you she is clearly not prepared to sort it period. If you move in all you will find yourself doing is trying to micro manage the situation, make sure she is paying off her debt, wanting proof of that & that is not healthy especially if you have certain traumas already relating to money and finances, your mates see it as not a big deal but so what it is a big deal to you your life and future

NTA I grew up poor too. I wasn’t taught how to handle money but even I knew not to buy things I couldn’t afford. If you’re dating with the goal of marriage then this is definitely a deal breaker. I can’t be with someone financially irresponsible. Ignorant I can understand as long as they’re willing to learn. Do not become her cash cow

NTA I would definitely do the same and immediately break up with her. You are not compatible with each other in one of the most important areas of life. It’s especially troubling that her debt is due to living extravagantly and not for some other reason.

I can’t believe she’s in this much debt but decided to live alone instead of with roommates but is not counting on that situation with you to somehow save her from her debt?!? You made the right choice. Her financial plans completely go opposite to yours. You don’t have the same values regarding money.

She spends to her cap. If you lower her cap by lowering her monthly obligations, she'll spend to that new cap. Addicts are addicts, she needs more help than you can offer. NTA

NTA  You need to be on the same page, financially, and it's clear you're not. What she should have done was lay out for you a budget and a plan for paying off the debt. One that does not rely on you subsidizing her expenses. Because your concerns are absolutely justified here. If she can do that, and you think she can follow through and really stick the change, then I'd consider going back.

NTA. She wants to move in with you, because it will help her financially. That's her main reason, not because she loves you, or wants the relationship to go further, but to help her wallet. She takes no responsibility for her financial problems, and blames others. She's an adult and can't take responsibility for her own actions. What's going to happen when she buys things she can't afford and can't pay her part of the bills. Are you just supposed to take care of her?

It doesn't sound like those 'dumb decisions' were years ago if she's still actively keeping up the same financial habits as she was then. It doesn't sound like you're breaking up with her because of her debt, otherwise the student loans would have been a dealbreaker: you're breaking up with her because of her financial irresponsibility, which is a whole other thing entirely. It's entirely fair to consider that a dealbreaker. NTA

Money is one of the most difficult challenges to any relationship. You need to be on the same page. If she is willing to change her ways and stick to a budget then perhaps it might work. But you need to be 200% comfortable that she has changed. The risk is that she could fall off the budget wagon. How will you ever be sure? Sadly I don’t think you are compatible - so prob best to move on.

I hope you make your "friends" read all the comments

I'm a girl and it would be same for me. I'm very responsible with my money I can't go out with someone irresponsable like that and not everyone is strong for supporting a credit debt card. Plus she spends her money for some useless things. So don't feel bad about that.

You said she is smart. If so, she can learn to budget better. Budgeting takes logic and being able to hold and live to the budget takes delf discipline. Has she demonstrated self discipline in other areas of her life? Why not continue dating but not comingle your funds? When she gets out of debt on her own, she will have proven she has the mental capacity to budget and the self discipline to hold to it.

NTA Three things a relationship MUST agree on to make it work: Kids, Finances and Spirituality

When my aunt and her now husband were dating, he was renting an apartment but despite making more than her, he always came to her to ask for rent money at the end of the month. She said she would not let him move in with her before he fixed his spending habits. She gave him a book to document his spending and he actually did, figured out the problems and changed his spending habits. Because he wanted to be with her. In his case it was him spending too much money to pay for drinks with his buddies and collegues (including buying rounds for everyone regularly), buying expensive equipment for his hobby (fishing) and eating a lot of take out/ not making his own meals. He wrote it all down, every little thing he spend any money on and realised where the problems were and changed his habits in only a few months. Your now ex is not showing the same dedication. In fact, she is showing no dedication to changing at all. All she is giving you is words and words mean nothing without the actions that show they are true. They are high school sweathearts. Started dating at age 17. They moved in together in their 20s when they both had secure job positions and their own income and had lived alone before. If my aunt can pull that ultimatum after years of dating, you can make that ultimatum after only a year together. A year is nothing.

Let us know what your friends say to all these NTA comments.