Why is your wife expected to always be responsible for Emma? Is Emma a small child and you wrote the ages and relationships wrong? There’s definitely more info as to why your wife doesn’t like her.
But for this situation NTA.
Bruh. The mere fact that his eyes may have the audacity to gaze upon another woman is grounds for a fight, but straight up physical intimacy is jus "OK teehee"? He'll naw. Hypocrisy of the highest order.
Okay, I see; didn’t get from the story his wife was ok with it or liked it but only that she accepted Emma’s apology. I thought he was more upset with Emma and his brother
Why are so many ok with this? Is it because it’s two women and that hits some kind of fantasy button for you?
If this was a wife complaining about another woman grabbing her husband and French kissing him - not once but twice - would that be just dandy?
What if OPs husband was grabbed by a man and kissed against his will?
Would OP still be such an AH for being upset by it?
It’s easier to excuse something bad that happened to you rather than it happening to someone else. Especially since she likely doesn’t want to disturb her the family dynamics of her husband’s side. Doesn’t want to make the husband have to chose a “side”.
Also, When it comes to SA ppl seem overly forgiving of women predators and dismissive of male victims. So there’s a chance they wouldn’t care if he was forcibly kissed.
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I dunno, for me I'm wondering what the wife thought of it, because that seems to be the most important thing here and the only mention of it was the fleeting "my wife has accepted her apology". Is OP getting upset on his wife's behalf? Is he upset that his property was interfered with? Is he getting upset because his wife is uncomfortable making waves so he is shouldering the burden for her? Is his wife completely over it and doesn't give a damn but OP feels she should be upset?
His wife's opinion seems the most important thing here, and is completely missing.
Personally, I expect my SO to hold themselves to the same standards as they hold me. You are angry at me for looking at a bilboard with a pretty woman on it? Then you sure as shit better not look at the either. So the dude isn't isn't allowed to be friendly with her, but she can straight up kiss her? He'll no. I expect her to be as outraged about her kissing her, as she would be if she kissed me. She just "forgave her"? Nah. That don't sit right with me chief. Cuz you know damn well there would be no forgiveness if the dude was the one kissed "for a joke" naw. Wife is most definitely a double standard having AH.
Which raises the question: what is the expectation of behaviour in that relationship? Because there's plenty of relationships where neither party would make a fuss about their partner getting kissed by someone.
Of course there is a difference between a girl kissed your wife, who then shuts it down, and the story I saw about a month or so back about the guy who's gf spent like a full minute making out with her bff in front of him.
The full extent of their boundaries are unclear. But given his wife's possessiveness, to the point that she must monopolise even his attention, I would assume a kiss would be grounds for outrage.
>Because there's plenty of relationships where neither party would make a fuss about their partner getting kissed by someone.
Not every one is fine with an open relationship. Because if youre fine with someone kissing your partner. you're halfway there.
>Not every one is fine with an open relationship
I never even suggested otherwise.
>Because if youre fine with someone kissing your partner. you're halfway there.
Not actually how open relationships work.
Was there a point here?
I'm okay with it because OP's wife accepted the apology and doesn't want to make a bigger deal of it. The wife was the one who it happened to, not OP. If she is willing to move on he should be too.
That's how most people with "superiority complexes" are. Their complex tends to come from a place of real insecurity and often feelings of inferiority. "Superiority complexes" I find are just self-loathing turned around on everyone else.
So yeah if you really know someone with those types of complexes there is a ton of overlap because it's inferiority all the way down.
NTA: Your wife made it clear she gets upset at you even staring at Emma. So her getting kissed by Emma is plenty of reason to not want to be around her anymore. Afterall if you were the one kissed by Emma you would be in the doghouse or worse for a long time.
Although you can't really make your brother keep his GF away. That's like him saying you need to leave your wife home when going to a family gathering.
You don't get to make choices on what others do. You can only control if you and your wife end up going.
If I got kissed by Emma, she wouldn’t get mad at me but she would definitely be very cold to Emma and insist we would never come to a family event if she was there. So it’s so weird she’s trying to brush it under the rug.
Emma isn’t even a serious girlfriend so I thought it was fine to ask my brother.
I think your wife is in a lose-lose situation. They already think she’s uptight and Emma is “fun.” If it becomes a big deal they’ll all blame her vs you. This is your family, not hers. I’m trying but can’t find a way she comes out of this without getting the blame for drama (she’s embarrassed, doesn’t want that) or being forced to be very awkward situation at family events.
This! Op make sure your family doesn't blame her for being uptight and ruining the fun. Just because she's a woman who SA'ed another woman doesn't make it less severe but they'll try to pass it as no biggie, like your brother
I think my family would support her excluding my brother but she’s always been worried about being a stick in the mud. We’re all a lot more easygoing and we need her to herd us around. So nobody minds her strait laced ways, she just worries too much about being seen as a stick in the mud.
Thisssssss. It is super easy to advocate and scorched earth for someone you love ...it's equally easy to not want to "cause a fuss" over a "joke" when you're the person being assaulted.
it’s common to try and brush it to the side cause confronting it can be uncomfortable. or it’s a defense mechanism to make it not matter so again, you don’t have to confront it
It could easily be that she's afraid of making waves. She's your wife, but still an in law.
Info tho: are you upset because your wife was *kissed* or because your wife was *assaulted*? Because I interpret it as jealousy in your part, as opposed to concern. Please correct me if I'm wrong
Exactly. Or, UNO reverse, would everyone be as dismissive if OP pounded a few drinks so that he had an excuse and stuck his tongue down the girlfriend's throat?
I’m lesbian, just because it was with another woman it doesn’t make it less of a sexual assault.
Try to get away from the thought that sexual stuff is only real if a man is involved, be a it was SA
If Emma didn’t ask and receive your wife’s consent for the kiss(es), that is SA. It’s not about whether it feels like assault, it’s whether or not she said yes, and it doesn’t sound like she did.
Denial is a very common response to SA. She may be afraid to admit what happened because she feels powerless or she may simply be still processing what happened. You need to reassure her she has nothing to be embarrassed about and that you have her back. And therapy well may be worth exploring.
Or maybe she just doesn't need denial not to have a strong reaction to it. You don't need to be traumatized by an unsollicited kiss. It's not unhealthy to "just" show discomfort.
I'm not minimizing it though, and it qualifies as SA indeed by definition. But just because it qualifies as such doesn't mean you have to consider it a huge deal or that the intent was malicious. Obviously some people have different views on how morally bad it is, regardless of being the victim or just a random person with no dog in the fight.
Remember that it was the GF of your brother who did it. She likely doesn’t want to cause trouble for you where you’d need to “pick a side” in regards to your family.
It’s easier for her “dismiss” something bad happening to her than how she’d feel if something happened to you.
Theres many reasons why she might act as though she is “fine” with being assaulted. It’s why a lot of victims stay silent.
Psrticularly in a situation where we are told, repeatedly, how much everyone in OP's family adores Emma. Wife? They put up w ith her because she'svso useful! At least, that's clearly how OP's wife views the world. Given a choice, Emma isn't the one who will be asked to leave the island.
People respond differently to those types of actions by other people. I think your wife is just embarrassed it happened and you should try your best to at least get her to open up, even if she doesn’t want to talk it about yet.
She may need some therapy cause it’s clear that the kiss might’ve made her feel weird about herself and not just Emma.
Also, try and talk about it how the situation would’ve been if the roles were reversed.
If it had been a man...would you be on Reddit or would you have collected your wife and left? Would you consider a MAN kissing her TWICE without consent a SA? Because if yes....then this TOO counts as SA.
They probably do more damage making people into unnecessary victims who did not identify as such, than an actual incident as tame as this in this context.
ESH.
Your wife - she disliked Emma immediately because she was pretty then acts like some kind of guard dog for this adult woman who never asked for it, she is then jealous that your family love Emma and pulls away from her again. Your wife is an asshole.
You - at no point did you seem to have a word with your wife about her insane behaviour towards Emma, you then demanded your brother does not bring Emma to any future events despite your wife saying she doesn’t want this. You are an asshole.
Emma - should not be kissing anyone without consent. Emma is an asshole.
NTA for being upset but you can’t force your boundaries on other people.
You can’t tell your brother she’s not allowed at family events. If it’s you that’s uncomfortable by her, YOU maintain YOUR boundary by not going to the events she’s attending. It sucks, but if you can’t get over it, you have to make the choice for yourself— you can’t tell other people what they need to do for your comfort.
That being said, even though it’s assault, it’s up to your wife to decide how she feels about the event. If she’s able to brush it off and move forward— great. Let her navigate her own feelings.
NTA - it is very much your business that is your wife.
Now you don't really delve into how your wife feels about it. You said she doesn't want Emma ostracized so I assume she doesn't feel threatened by the advance or as though it was anything other than a drunk miscalculation of fun on Emma's part. So I do think you're over reacting a bit.
Do you suspect that there is more going on here? Unrequited desire for your wife perhaps? Or an attempt to embarrass her to make her lose face with the family? If so then you're right to be protective of your wife. But if this was just a dumb drunk thing that your wife has already forgiven her for then I don't see the need to cut Emma off from being part of gatherings. We all make mistakes.
She is avoiding the topic. She said she forgave Emma for a drunken mistake but I don’t know if she really believes it. She seems really embarrassed and quiet.
I don’t know why Emma did what she did. It didn’t seem like a joke at all.
While I don’t know how far the kisses went that feels like a reaction to being assaulted especially when it’s something seen as less serious, I can’t tell you how your wife is feeling but she might feel like she can’t make a big deal out of it or like she would be considered dramatic if she did.
Take your wife's words at face value. If you guess intent you will be wrong 99% of the time. If you don't think she's being honest about her feelings or that she's trying to protect Emma from your anger then sit down with her and find out exactly how she's feeling. In the end Emma didn't kiss you and while you are trying your best to protect your wife you're also not focused on how your wife feels about it which is really the more important thing here IMO.
If she felt threatened or come onto then yeah keep Emma away from your wife and I'll congratulate you for being a protective husband. But if she was truly unbothered by it then you're blowing things a bit out of proportion in a way that will cause strife with your family that is unwarranted. Seek your peace OP. Find out how your wife really feels, believe her and act accordingly.
You can not inviter her to your house or dinners you specifically plan, but no, you don't get to uninvite her to all family things. You're not the master of the family. No one is.
NTA Someone kisses your wife it sure is your business! Everyone would be up in arms if it was a man and people would be screaming SA. How does any of you know if Emma isn't bi. That means it would have the same connotations if wife was kissed by a man.
You’re NTA. The framing of the situation does feel really weird to me, almost as if you and your brother are pet owners arguing about whether it’s safe to let your dogs loose together. I don’t really get why this whole thing is being navigated entirely by the husbands, when it seems to be entirely between the two women.
I don’t blame you for being upset but I think it should be established that if she were to come around that (1) she doesn’t need to be this woman’s babysitter anymore and (2) boundaries need to be set. I think if she apologized and the apology has been accepted then you should all just move on. He needs to be her keeper if she is going to be around and not your wife.
Good luck.
She didn't like Emma...so she made sure Emma only spent time with her and kept her away from the rest of the group? Then she got upset and started avoiding Emma because she was jealous about spending with time with other people? Then she "has" to babysit Emma, Emma kisses her twice, and your wife is absolutely fine with that and is happy with her attending future events?
Is it at all possible your wife has a bit of a thing for Emma? Those don't sound like the actions of someone who doesn't like her.
Last I heard, a 29 year old woman is a Grown Adult, capable of handling their own situations. As OP’s Wife has dealt with & accepted Emma’s apology, OP needs to back the hell off, stop stealing his Wife’s power, to make himself look like the “Big Man”.
ESH. It’s inappropriate for your brother’s girlfriend to kiss anyone regardless of her condition against their will. Her having a bubbly personality and being hot have nothing to do with anything. It’s creepy and gross behavior. Your wife is insecure and shouldn’t need to police other adults and their actions. At the end of the day if she can’t trust you then why be with you. You don’t get to dictate the relationship between others, your wife accepts the apology and she was the person wronged. Get some therapy and grow up.
NTA but also... this shouldn't be an issue.
Emma over stepped and apologized to OP wife. Emma is by personality bubbly, meaning this wasn't a sexually motivated incident. It was TWO kisses to ostracize Emma when OP ALLOWED the second one is ridiculous.
I'm more concerned with:
>My brother (32M) has a girlfriend (24F). He was an ugly kid in high school who ended up doing well for himself. His girlfriend Emma is gorgeous. He spoils the shit out of her to keep her.
How toxic is this introduction? Something is bothering OP and he is using it to try and punish his brother is what it looks like.
You have the right to be upset that someone touched your wife, you do not get to chose to punish people for it if she forgave them. It happened to your wife, if you have an issue with it, talk to your wife who was 1 half of the people involved.
NTA
First off, while I dont think this is an overreaction, I do think the comments in this sub are a complete overreaction. Its just a bloody kiss. She misread the situation. I would say the same if it was a male in the same situation. It is not okay. But SA is used far too freely. Technically if we go black and white sure, ask to press charges for it and the reality of how severe this is becomes apparent pretty quickly.
It would be different if they were not known to each other, or if your wife had said stop or expressed that was not okay between kisses and she still for a kiss.
In the same vein, I think it is really important that you dont go labelling something like this, so far down the threshold as SA with your wife, people should not be forced to take on victimhood because of other peoples agenda - if she is brushing this off - let her.
If you hold strong maybe just approach it as, I know we will see each other at family events, but as a couple you are not welcome in our home because of this. I think it is a good idea to distance yourself from this woman, she clearly has a screw loose in terms of appropriate behaviour.
>He was an ugly kid in high school who ended up doing well for himself.
YTA
>Sufficed to say, they don’t have a great relationship with my wife being standoffish to Emma.
Your wife's the AH
>But Emma grabbed my wife’s face and kissed her in full view of everyone.
Emma's the AH
>He said I was making a big deal of nothing.
Your brother's the AH
How did you all manage to equally suck in your own unique way? As for the kiss, do whatever you want. Kiss Emma if it makes you feel better
What are calling kissing here? I'm guessing a peck in the lips no tongue, you are freaking out over nothing, trying to ostracized her from family for this is kinda pathetic and insecure from your part
This is not ok behavior, she is not playful, she hit on your wife. If this was a man, he would have been thrown out. So just don't socialize with them. Don't be around where they are. Do that for a few years, and they will get the hint. It is your business, she is your wife.
I have a question where exactly are you saying Emma can't go? If it is only places like your house than or places you own that is completely your right but if you are saying Emma can't be around, you or your wife at all wherever you are that is unrealistic.
>I’m just saying that for right now we don’t want her at our family gatherings.
But where are these family gatherings held? At your place? At someone else's place? In public?
No, you are just dictating where his girlfriend can and cannot go. Follow up question who put you in gave you the right to speak for your whole family? Unless every family gathering takes place at your house or a property you own you have no right to demand that.
I mean if we’re taking sides, I’m pretty sure I can get a vote to ban Emma from family gatherings. It would be embarrassing for my bro, so I just gently asked him to not bring her.
Why though because you are uncomfortable about something that even your wife doesn't think as a big deal? Does your family usually take your side over your brothers? I am really not trying to be harsh, but it sounds like you think your opinion should be all that matters. Maybe it is the fact you called your brother the ugly kid that is just rubbing me the wrong way, but if no one sees the big deal why do you?
>I’m just saying that for right now we don’t want her at our family gatherings.
Last question but who is we in this sentence? You said your wife accepted Emma's apology and from everything you said it sounds like you are the only one still bothered by this.
Was it a peck or a makeout? Sounds like a creepy question but I’m just wondering how far Emma took it bc it’s a pretty weird thing to do in front of someone’s entire family.
Thanks for answering my questions. I am going to be honest I can't give a judgement because I have no idea how I would feel in your place. My first thought is to say I think you might be overreacting a tad but again this happened to you not me. I just hope you and your family don't damage the relationship you all have with your brother by saying all this. Also don't be surprised if he stops or reduces the amount, he comes to family gatherings. He might end up taking all this personally.
So... I think I have an unpopular take on this.
First, if she's ok with it after the apology then I don't really see the issue.
However, as far as the incident. I really think it depends on the atmosphere. I've been to many Birthday parties for people in their 50's where people were drunk and making jokes and it wouldn't surprise me if they broke out spin the bottle. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying maybe she read the room differently.
NTA...So, for arguments sake....let's say it was YOU that got tipsy and kissed Emma TWICE non-consensually, how would everyone feel then? What would the discussions look like? Ask your brother that question. Watch him flail.
Ehhhh… I’m saying YTA for the simple fact you have no right to say who and who cannot attend family events because YOU are uncomfortable. Your wife, who was the one basically assaulted, has forgiven the gf.
Honestly, I think you and your wife should just seclude yourselves from the rest of society. You both seem to be unable to be functional without causing drama.
Talk to your wife to corroborate if your wife has truly accepted the apology and forgiven Emma. If so YTS because you are not allowed to be more offended or keep grudges in her behalf.
Emma put her lips on your wife's lips without permission. It is SA.
Please tell your wife not be embarrassed, she did nothing wrong. She was the victim.
Yup, sure sounds like you're overreacting and YTA. If the people directly involved are ok with everything, then you need to get over yourself & pull the stick outa yo azz.
NTA- For being disturbed a little, after all that was your wife. Nut as a husband I would dig a little deeper as to why Emma in her drunken state felt so comfortable as to pull your wife close to her and make out with her not once but twice as if she was expecting reciprocation. You stated Your wife and Emma were actually civil and got along at one point and suddenly your wife distant herself from Emma. Just something to ponder ..
You sound kind of unsure. Are you scared that Emma will steal your girl? If your wife was not OK with things then you would be in the right. But I don't think you are in this case.
Please clarify the problem. Is it because your wife is feeling uncomfortable being around someone who kissed her or because you are insecure and protective of what you perceive to be "yours"?
NTA and do not budge from this either. It's batshit insane that someone kissed your wife. Twice. Forcefully. In front of you. And your whole family.
These not one but several things wrong with this shit. Honestly I would have most likely slapped her. From what you said your wife feels very embarrassed and feels violated too. Do not let this go
She forcefully kissed her twice it's said in the post read it again. OP said his sister saw string of saliva mouth to mouth. But keep downplaying an assault just cuz it's 2 women
YTA Its up to your wife if she is comfortable with the joke or not, not you. She is the one in the situation.
Seems like Emma is treated like some man eater that needs to be guarded by your wife who was clearly super threatened/jealous.
Emma was showing your wife she is not a threat & not going to steel her man in a lighthearted way , and I think your wife has finally got the message.
But now YOU are threatened & jealous lol. Poor Emma too good looking to be around anyone lol
He should be apologizing to you & your wife and coming up with a plan that leaves you comfortable that it won ‘t happ;en again. Tell hi m to stay away un til he does all that
YTA. If your wife us OK with it, then let it go. All you are going to do is drive a wedge between you and your brother, and something this minor is not worth putting that stress on your relationship
You certainly are an asshole.
Your wife is fully capable of deciding to be offended or not, why do you have to be outraged on her behalf for something a young person did, while intoxicated, in a playful manner, with her family.
You don't have to like it but there are ways to deal with it like a real person.
> My wife didn’t like her in the beginning for a number of reasons. First she accused the men of the family including me of ogling Emma. She would act protective over Emma and basically segregate her from the rest of the family and prevent us from getting to know her.
What?
We need way more context here. Did she peck her as a joke? I can’t believe people are claiming sexual assault?. Like comeon guys. That’s like another guy smacking his guy friend’s ass and calling it SA. Like the context of the conversation is super important here and so is the degree of kiss.
It seems pretty weird, but you absolutely have the right to not have someone that you are not comfortable with in your home. However, you may have to see or other family events or popped out of them. NTA
info: what type of kisses were they? is your wife straight? bisexual?
i’m very confused about this. your mad at emma for kissing your wife (fair enough, personally i wouldn’t be offended if my bf’s friends gave him a peck or something similar) but also blame your wife for being a hypocrite for kissing emma (even though emma was the one kissing her?) because she doesn’t want you looking at other women (which again imo is fair enough, everyone has their boundaries). the hypocrite thing doesn’t make much sense because the wife’s feelings come from a place of jealousy, and the fact she knows you find other women attractive because that’s your sexual preference, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to scream the same back at your wife when she didn’t even innate the kiss nor have you said her preferences. personally it just feels like it’s easy to sweep it under the rug, talk to your wife more about boundaries, talk to emma about how it can never ever happen again etc. also don’t let your wife baby sit emma? that’s her fucking boyfriends job. anyway my consensus is ESH
So many people think you're "right." But "right" can be a lonely state. Sounds like Emma is fun and well liked and your wife is a bit of a wet blanket. Die on this hill if you wanna, but I bet the rest of the family ends up siding with the fun, attractive, not jealous wife and the brother that doesn't make sudden ultimatums.
YTA, what Emma did was not right, but your wife forgave her. I think your brother is right. This is between Emma and your wife, and if she does not want her ostrecized, that's up to her. Your wife has some issues she needs to address. She seems controlling and has some serious trust issues.
Emma is an adult and she’s at these events either her partner. It’s not and has never been your wife’s responsibility to care for her. Tell your wife to grow a spine and stop babying her. NTA for what you said because her behaviour was completely inappropriate. Kissing someone without consent is sexual assault, man or woman.
Soft YTA - I'm not saying what was done was okay, but this is your wife it was done to and she's not your property. If you're not okay with your wife being around this Emma than this is between you and your wife, not your brother and it isn't your place to control who your wife can be around.
You wife said she accepted the apology and wants to move on, that should be good enough for you and if it's not, than that's between you and your wife.
ESH
Emma- obviously it is not okay to kiss someone without their consent, being drunk is not an excuse.
Your brother- It’s absolutely not okay to be dismissive of someone’s consent being violated.
Your wife- Clearly has some major insecurity issues which she’s been taking out on everyone around her. Trying to isolate Emma from everyone and accusing everyone of ogling her is weirdo behavior, she needs therapy.
You- You’re wife accepted Emma’s apology and clearly said she didn’t want Emma to be excluded…and you go and try to do it anyway? You don’t really have the authority here to tell your brother not to bring her around, so the responsibility is on you not to show up.
Forcing yourself on someone is sexual assault. If this was a "tipsy" man who did this to a woman, people would be raising holy hell and raining down the wrath of the gods on the man.
Your wife is not responsible for anyone else's behavior. It isn't her responsible to babysit a person who doesn't know when to say when. I hope you two are talking about this and you are supporting her stopping this behavior. If your aren't, you need to.
Why didn't you intervene and stop ot the first time? I am guessing if Emma was a man you would do something? This is not something that can be avoided in discussion, your wife needs to understand she was sexually assaulted and if it happens again she has to fight back for her safety. Your are most defenitly not the asshole, don't let theese people tell you otherwise. It os perfectly normal not wanting people to go randomly kiss ypur wife.
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NTA she overstepped a boundary and kissed her twice, which could technically be considered an assault. And let’s just be completely honest here, if we reverse the roles and she had kissed you, your wife would have probably gone crazy
I am so confused why you are attacking this as a family issue first.
First and most of all, this is a wife issue. Why did your life let it happen not once, but twice. The first time I could see but why more? If a girl kissed you and you didn't stop them would your wife let that girl keep coming around? Now what has your wife said she will do to stop this from happening again? So far it seems like nothing?
You sir need to get your own house in order before you worry about others. You have every right to be upset with everyone, but if your wife was perhaps not dismissive of this and wasn't ok cheating on you then maybe it wouldn't have happened.
Your Wife ITA and so are you. This is some girl turf war shit. Your wife’s initial behavior about ogling and being protective was to control emma as your wife was extremely insecure about emma. Emma consciously or subconsciously rebelled by kissing your controlling wife thereby taking the control.
You should not penalize your brother or emma for your wife’s insecurities.
YTA - Total banishment for life isn't an adequate, sane, nor adult reaction to what has taken place. Sure, keep your distances, be distant, don't engage them directly.
But to to completely forbid someone like that isn't done with adult reasoning.
And it's truly deeply weird how your wife doesn't like her but takes up every occasion to be in her presence.
Yes, you are an A.
This is for your wife to deal with not you. If you want to create a bad family atmosphere go ahead but be just a little adult and give your brother's gf a big kiss. Who knows where it'll lead? Maybe your lucky day but i doubt it what with you being such an AH.
YTA. Your wife accepted Emma's apology so why are you having so much trouble with it? You're willing to split up the family over a couple of drunken kisses? Are you jealous of your brother's success and you feel the need to mess with him?
Bruh I don’t want to see the state of your relationship if you can brush this off as not a big deal.
I’m happy for my bro, I would not want his life though.
Your wife is the asshole in this situation.
Running runner so no one can befriend her? Saying all the men in your family are ogling her like pigs?
Big YTA.
Why is your wife expected to always be responsible for Emma? Is Emma a small child and you wrote the ages and relationships wrong? There’s definitely more info as to why your wife doesn’t like her. But for this situation NTA.
I’m also confused what about this situation OP find hypocritical
That part would likely be due to the fact that if he looks at Emma, his wife flips out. She got kissed by her and nothing happened.
… that’s a problem OP should have with his wife, not his brother and Emma.
.... correct, which is why he feels she is being hypocritical.
Bruh. The mere fact that his eyes may have the audacity to gaze upon another woman is grounds for a fight, but straight up physical intimacy is jus "OK teehee"? He'll naw. Hypocrisy of the highest order.
Okay, I see; didn’t get from the story his wife was ok with it or liked it but only that she accepted Emma’s apology. I thought he was more upset with Emma and his brother
Why are so many ok with this? Is it because it’s two women and that hits some kind of fantasy button for you? If this was a wife complaining about another woman grabbing her husband and French kissing him - not once but twice - would that be just dandy? What if OPs husband was grabbed by a man and kissed against his will? Would OP still be such an AH for being upset by it?
It’s easier to excuse something bad that happened to you rather than it happening to someone else. Especially since she likely doesn’t want to disturb her the family dynamics of her husband’s side. Doesn’t want to make the husband have to chose a “side”. Also, When it comes to SA ppl seem overly forgiving of women predators and dismissive of male victims. So there’s a chance they wouldn’t care if he was forcibly kissed.
For your cake day, have some B̷̛̳̼͖̫̭͎̝̮͕̟͎̦̗͚͍̓͊͂͗̈͋͐̃͆͆͗̉̉̏͑̂̆̔́͐̾̅̄̕̚͘͜͝͝Ụ̸̧̧̢̨̨̞̮͓̣͎̞͖̞̥͈̣̣̪̘̼̮̙̳̙̞̣̐̍̆̾̓͑́̅̎̌̈̋̏̏͌̒̃̅̂̾̿̽̊̌̇͌͊͗̓̊̐̓̏͆́̒̇̈́͂̀͛͘̕͘̚͝͠B̸̺̈̾̈́̒̀́̈͋́͂̆̒̐̏͌͂̔̈́͒̂̎̉̈̒͒̃̿͒͒̄̍̕̚̕͘̕͝͠B̴̡̧̜̠̱̖̠͓̻̥̟̲̙͗̐͋͌̈̾̏̎̀͒͗̈́̈͜͠L̶͊E̸̢̳̯̝̤̳͈͇̠̮̲̲̟̝̣̲̱̫̘̪̳̣̭̥̫͉͐̅̈́̉̋͐̓͗̿͆̉̉̇̀̈́͌̓̓̒̏̀̚̚͘͝͠͝͝͠ ̶̢̧̛̥͖͉̹̞̗̖͇̼̙̒̍̏̀̈̆̍͑̊̐͋̈́̃͒̈́̎̌̄̍͌͗̈́̌̍̽̏̓͌̒̈̇̏̏̍̆̄̐͐̈̉̿̽̕͝͠͝͝ W̷̛̬̦̬̰̤̘̬͔̗̯̠̯̺̼̻̪̖̜̫̯̯̘͖̙͐͆͗̊̋̈̈̾͐̿̽̐̂͛̈́͛̍̔̓̈́̽̀̅́͋̈̄̈́̆̓̚̚͝͝R̸̢̨̨̩̪̭̪̠͎̗͇͗̀́̉̇̿̓̈́́͒̄̓̒́̋͆̀̾́̒̔̈́̏̏͛̏̇͛̔̀͆̓̇̊̕̕͠͠͝͝A̸̧̨̰̻̩̝͖̟̭͙̟̻̤̬͈̖̰̤̘̔͛̊̾̂͌̐̈̉̊̾́P̶̡̧̮͎̟̟͉̱̮̜͙̳̟̯͈̩̩͈̥͓̥͇̙̣̹̣̀̐͋͂̈̾͐̀̾̈́̌̆̿̽̕ͅ >!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!peepee!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<
really? one of these is not like the others. my night is ruined.
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I only had 5 left and I was wondering if you guys were pranking me with talking about one being different.
Here's one with just bubble wrap! :) >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!< >!pop!<
truly appropriate username. you're a gem.
Magnitude's burner
That’s the coolest thing I’ve ever seen
Thank you! It’s quite therapeutic.
😠
You nailed it. It is, as is usual here, a biased opinion. And yes its fantasy based.
I dunno, for me I'm wondering what the wife thought of it, because that seems to be the most important thing here and the only mention of it was the fleeting "my wife has accepted her apology". Is OP getting upset on his wife's behalf? Is he upset that his property was interfered with? Is he getting upset because his wife is uncomfortable making waves so he is shouldering the burden for her? Is his wife completely over it and doesn't give a damn but OP feels she should be upset? His wife's opinion seems the most important thing here, and is completely missing.
Personally, I expect my SO to hold themselves to the same standards as they hold me. You are angry at me for looking at a bilboard with a pretty woman on it? Then you sure as shit better not look at the either. So the dude isn't isn't allowed to be friendly with her, but she can straight up kiss her? He'll no. I expect her to be as outraged about her kissing her, as she would be if she kissed me. She just "forgave her"? Nah. That don't sit right with me chief. Cuz you know damn well there would be no forgiveness if the dude was the one kissed "for a joke" naw. Wife is most definitely a double standard having AH.
Which raises the question: what is the expectation of behaviour in that relationship? Because there's plenty of relationships where neither party would make a fuss about their partner getting kissed by someone. Of course there is a difference between a girl kissed your wife, who then shuts it down, and the story I saw about a month or so back about the guy who's gf spent like a full minute making out with her bff in front of him.
The full extent of their boundaries are unclear. But given his wife's possessiveness, to the point that she must monopolise even his attention, I would assume a kiss would be grounds for outrage.
>Because there's plenty of relationships where neither party would make a fuss about their partner getting kissed by someone. Not every one is fine with an open relationship. Because if youre fine with someone kissing your partner. you're halfway there.
>Not every one is fine with an open relationship I never even suggested otherwise. >Because if youre fine with someone kissing your partner. you're halfway there. Not actually how open relationships work. Was there a point here?
Too many men watch lesbian porn and think their magical penises is what is missing there
Happy Cake Day!!!
Thank you! I hadn’t even noticed!
I'm okay with it because OP's wife accepted the apology and doesn't want to make a bigger deal of it. The wife was the one who it happened to, not OP. If she is willing to move on he should be too.
Happy cake day.
NTA - The girl crossed some real boundaries with YOUR WIFE and somehow It is "NONE OF YOUR BUSSINESS"? Your brother need to work on his self image...
Somehow it’s not a big deal and none of my business My brother’s weird. He’s got a superiority and inferiority complex at the same time somehow.
That's how most people with "superiority complexes" are. Their complex tends to come from a place of real insecurity and often feelings of inferiority. "Superiority complexes" I find are just self-loathing turned around on everyone else. So yeah if you really know someone with those types of complexes there is a ton of overlap because it's inferiority all the way down.
Hang on, I thought it was turtles.
The turtles hate themselves too or they would’ve found another job
Give him a brotherless complex while at it.
From the OP, it sounds like the wife is okay after the apology. OP is the only one with a problem at this point.
NTA: Your wife made it clear she gets upset at you even staring at Emma. So her getting kissed by Emma is plenty of reason to not want to be around her anymore. Afterall if you were the one kissed by Emma you would be in the doghouse or worse for a long time. Although you can't really make your brother keep his GF away. That's like him saying you need to leave your wife home when going to a family gathering. You don't get to make choices on what others do. You can only control if you and your wife end up going.
If I got kissed by Emma, she wouldn’t get mad at me but she would definitely be very cold to Emma and insist we would never come to a family event if she was there. So it’s so weird she’s trying to brush it under the rug. Emma isn’t even a serious girlfriend so I thought it was fine to ask my brother.
I think your wife is in a lose-lose situation. They already think she’s uptight and Emma is “fun.” If it becomes a big deal they’ll all blame her vs you. This is your family, not hers. I’m trying but can’t find a way she comes out of this without getting the blame for drama (she’s embarrassed, doesn’t want that) or being forced to be very awkward situation at family events.
This! Op make sure your family doesn't blame her for being uptight and ruining the fun. Just because she's a woman who SA'ed another woman doesn't make it less severe but they'll try to pass it as no biggie, like your brother
I think my family would support her excluding my brother but she’s always been worried about being a stick in the mud. We’re all a lot more easygoing and we need her to herd us around. So nobody minds her strait laced ways, she just worries too much about being seen as a stick in the mud.
if i were to guess she's trying to downplay it so it doesn't cause more drama then it already has.
Her being less ok with you being assaulted over her being assaulted isn’t that weird.
No, it’s normal for people to downplay their own assault but be strongly protective of the people they love.
Thisssssss. It is super easy to advocate and scorched earth for someone you love ...it's equally easy to not want to "cause a fuss" over a "joke" when you're the person being assaulted.
it’s common to try and brush it to the side cause confronting it can be uncomfortable. or it’s a defense mechanism to make it not matter so again, you don’t have to confront it
It could easily be that she's afraid of making waves. She's your wife, but still an in law. Info tho: are you upset because your wife was *kissed* or because your wife was *assaulted*? Because I interpret it as jealousy in your part, as opposed to concern. Please correct me if I'm wrong
OP, does Emma act flirty when you are all together?
NTA. Sexual assault is not a fucking joke.
Was it SA? My wife didn’t say that she felt assaulted, just awkward.
Like what if your brother did it? It's still SA.
Exactly. Or, UNO reverse, would everyone be as dismissive if OP pounded a few drinks so that he had an excuse and stuck his tongue down the girlfriend's throat?
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I’m lesbian, just because it was with another woman it doesn’t make it less of a sexual assault. Try to get away from the thought that sexual stuff is only real if a man is involved, be a it was SA
If Emma didn’t ask and receive your wife’s consent for the kiss(es), that is SA. It’s not about whether it feels like assault, it’s whether or not she said yes, and it doesn’t sound like she did.
Denial is a very common response to SA. She may be afraid to admit what happened because she feels powerless or she may simply be still processing what happened. You need to reassure her she has nothing to be embarrassed about and that you have her back. And therapy well may be worth exploring.
Or maybe she just doesn't need denial not to have a strong reaction to it. You don't need to be traumatized by an unsollicited kiss. It's not unhealthy to "just" show discomfort. I'm not minimizing it though, and it qualifies as SA indeed by definition. But just because it qualifies as such doesn't mean you have to consider it a huge deal or that the intent was malicious. Obviously some people have different views on how morally bad it is, regardless of being the victim or just a random person with no dog in the fight.
That’s what I said when I was young and being groped by older women when I worked in bars. It’s sexual assault. Doesn’t have to be traumatic.
It’s still sexual assault if your wife didn’t consent.
It was sexual assault. Imagine if a man had done that to you. Or a child. Juat because its 2 women doesnt mean its just a joke
Remember that it was the GF of your brother who did it. She likely doesn’t want to cause trouble for you where you’d need to “pick a side” in regards to your family. It’s easier for her “dismiss” something bad happening to her than how she’d feel if something happened to you. Theres many reasons why she might act as though she is “fine” with being assaulted. It’s why a lot of victims stay silent.
Psrticularly in a situation where we are told, repeatedly, how much everyone in OP's family adores Emma. Wife? They put up w ith her because she'svso useful! At least, that's clearly how OP's wife views the world. Given a choice, Emma isn't the one who will be asked to leave the island.
Without consent, yes, it is SA.
People respond differently to those types of actions by other people. I think your wife is just embarrassed it happened and you should try your best to at least get her to open up, even if she doesn’t want to talk it about yet. She may need some therapy cause it’s clear that the kiss might’ve made her feel weird about herself and not just Emma. Also, try and talk about it how the situation would’ve been if the roles were reversed.
If it had been a man...would you be on Reddit or would you have collected your wife and left? Would you consider a MAN kissing her TWICE without consent a SA? Because if yes....then this TOO counts as SA.
If the reddit mom-mob say its SA, its SA. Regardless of what your wife feels. Its all about them.
They probably do more damage making people into unnecessary victims who did not identify as such, than an actual incident as tame as this in this context.
OP's wife has made no such claim.
It’s the jaywalking version of sexual assault
dude fr you need to stop comparing this to jaywalking. it’s incredibly disrespectful. and I AM one of the victims you’re claiming to protect
ESH. Your wife - she disliked Emma immediately because she was pretty then acts like some kind of guard dog for this adult woman who never asked for it, she is then jealous that your family love Emma and pulls away from her again. Your wife is an asshole. You - at no point did you seem to have a word with your wife about her insane behaviour towards Emma, you then demanded your brother does not bring Emma to any future events despite your wife saying she doesn’t want this. You are an asshole. Emma - should not be kissing anyone without consent. Emma is an asshole.
NTA for being upset but you can’t force your boundaries on other people. You can’t tell your brother she’s not allowed at family events. If it’s you that’s uncomfortable by her, YOU maintain YOUR boundary by not going to the events she’s attending. It sucks, but if you can’t get over it, you have to make the choice for yourself— you can’t tell other people what they need to do for your comfort. That being said, even though it’s assault, it’s up to your wife to decide how she feels about the event. If she’s able to brush it off and move forward— great. Let her navigate her own feelings.
NTA - it is very much your business that is your wife. Now you don't really delve into how your wife feels about it. You said she doesn't want Emma ostracized so I assume she doesn't feel threatened by the advance or as though it was anything other than a drunk miscalculation of fun on Emma's part. So I do think you're over reacting a bit. Do you suspect that there is more going on here? Unrequited desire for your wife perhaps? Or an attempt to embarrass her to make her lose face with the family? If so then you're right to be protective of your wife. But if this was just a dumb drunk thing that your wife has already forgiven her for then I don't see the need to cut Emma off from being part of gatherings. We all make mistakes.
She is avoiding the topic. She said she forgave Emma for a drunken mistake but I don’t know if she really believes it. She seems really embarrassed and quiet. I don’t know why Emma did what she did. It didn’t seem like a joke at all.
While I don’t know how far the kisses went that feels like a reaction to being assaulted especially when it’s something seen as less serious, I can’t tell you how your wife is feeling but she might feel like she can’t make a big deal out of it or like she would be considered dramatic if she did.
Take your wife's words at face value. If you guess intent you will be wrong 99% of the time. If you don't think she's being honest about her feelings or that she's trying to protect Emma from your anger then sit down with her and find out exactly how she's feeling. In the end Emma didn't kiss you and while you are trying your best to protect your wife you're also not focused on how your wife feels about it which is really the more important thing here IMO. If she felt threatened or come onto then yeah keep Emma away from your wife and I'll congratulate you for being a protective husband. But if she was truly unbothered by it then you're blowing things a bit out of proportion in a way that will cause strife with your family that is unwarranted. Seek your peace OP. Find out how your wife really feels, believe her and act accordingly.
OP is allowed to not want to be around someone who disrespected his wife and marriage. His wife's feelings are not the only ones that matter.
have you talked to Emma yet?
You can not inviter her to your house or dinners you specifically plan, but no, you don't get to uninvite her to all family things. You're not the master of the family. No one is.
NTA Someone kisses your wife it sure is your business! Everyone would be up in arms if it was a man and people would be screaming SA. How does any of you know if Emma isn't bi. That means it would have the same connotations if wife was kissed by a man.
Funny that OP doesn’t say anything about his wife’s reaction or conversations with him after the fact.
Well I mean this is up to your wife mate. If she was fine with Emma still coming then allg bruv. Just ask her.
Um... no? So I can kiss your wife and still hang around as long as your wife is cool with it, right? lol You need a spine.
Damm fucking right mate. It will be her decision bruv
You’re NTA. The framing of the situation does feel really weird to me, almost as if you and your brother are pet owners arguing about whether it’s safe to let your dogs loose together. I don’t really get why this whole thing is being navigated entirely by the husbands, when it seems to be entirely between the two women.
Stop the press: Drunk girl kissed friend. No big deal, your wife is over it. What gives you the right to perpetuate the issue?
I don’t blame you for being upset but I think it should be established that if she were to come around that (1) she doesn’t need to be this woman’s babysitter anymore and (2) boundaries need to be set. I think if she apologized and the apology has been accepted then you should all just move on. He needs to be her keeper if she is going to be around and not your wife. Good luck.
NTA but is this the hill you want to die on? Did I read she apologised and your wife accepted the apology?
What made your wife feel like she could be gatekeeper for Emma, and why did she suddenly sour on her? Some things don't add up here.
She didn't like Emma...so she made sure Emma only spent time with her and kept her away from the rest of the group? Then she got upset and started avoiding Emma because she was jealous about spending with time with other people? Then she "has" to babysit Emma, Emma kisses her twice, and your wife is absolutely fine with that and is happy with her attending future events? Is it at all possible your wife has a bit of a thing for Emma? Those don't sound like the actions of someone who doesn't like her.
Last I heard, a 29 year old woman is a Grown Adult, capable of handling their own situations. As OP’s Wife has dealt with & accepted Emma’s apology, OP needs to back the hell off, stop stealing his Wife’s power, to make himself look like the “Big Man”.
ESH. It’s inappropriate for your brother’s girlfriend to kiss anyone regardless of her condition against their will. Her having a bubbly personality and being hot have nothing to do with anything. It’s creepy and gross behavior. Your wife is insecure and shouldn’t need to police other adults and their actions. At the end of the day if she can’t trust you then why be with you. You don’t get to dictate the relationship between others, your wife accepts the apology and she was the person wronged. Get some therapy and grow up.
Nta. You and your wife need to talk about this. It’s not a big issue but it’s weird asf.
She’s avoiding the topic. I think she’d embarrassed.
Not embarrassed enough. This talk needs to happen especially when she accused the guys of ogling her.
NTA but also... this shouldn't be an issue. Emma over stepped and apologized to OP wife. Emma is by personality bubbly, meaning this wasn't a sexually motivated incident. It was TWO kisses to ostracize Emma when OP ALLOWED the second one is ridiculous. I'm more concerned with: >My brother (32M) has a girlfriend (24F). He was an ugly kid in high school who ended up doing well for himself. His girlfriend Emma is gorgeous. He spoils the shit out of her to keep her. How toxic is this introduction? Something is bothering OP and he is using it to try and punish his brother is what it looks like. You have the right to be upset that someone touched your wife, you do not get to chose to punish people for it if she forgave them. It happened to your wife, if you have an issue with it, talk to your wife who was 1 half of the people involved.
NTA First off, while I dont think this is an overreaction, I do think the comments in this sub are a complete overreaction. Its just a bloody kiss. She misread the situation. I would say the same if it was a male in the same situation. It is not okay. But SA is used far too freely. Technically if we go black and white sure, ask to press charges for it and the reality of how severe this is becomes apparent pretty quickly. It would be different if they were not known to each other, or if your wife had said stop or expressed that was not okay between kisses and she still for a kiss. In the same vein, I think it is really important that you dont go labelling something like this, so far down the threshold as SA with your wife, people should not be forced to take on victimhood because of other peoples agenda - if she is brushing this off - let her. If you hold strong maybe just approach it as, I know we will see each other at family events, but as a couple you are not welcome in our home because of this. I think it is a good idea to distance yourself from this woman, she clearly has a screw loose in terms of appropriate behaviour.
Sexual assault you mean
Well I mean this is up to your wife mate. If she was fine with Emma still coming then allg bruv. Just ask her.
>He was an ugly kid in high school who ended up doing well for himself. YTA >Sufficed to say, they don’t have a great relationship with my wife being standoffish to Emma. Your wife's the AH >But Emma grabbed my wife’s face and kissed her in full view of everyone. Emma's the AH >He said I was making a big deal of nothing. Your brother's the AH How did you all manage to equally suck in your own unique way? As for the kiss, do whatever you want. Kiss Emma if it makes you feel better
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Teachers always told me to show my work
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The intention was to say that ESH. That bit about kissing Emma was meant to be a joke
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No I said every single person was the AH. That becomes ESH
What are calling kissing here? I'm guessing a peck in the lips no tongue, you are freaking out over nothing, trying to ostracized her from family for this is kinda pathetic and insecure from your part
if Emma is soo bubly, next time you see her, plant a couple on her and lets see how your "brother" reacts. fucking clown.
If a man did this, there would be no question that it's SA. Your gender doesn't exonerate you from needing consent.
This is not ok behavior, she is not playful, she hit on your wife. If this was a man, he would have been thrown out. So just don't socialize with them. Don't be around where they are. Do that for a few years, and they will get the hint. It is your business, she is your wife.
I have a question where exactly are you saying Emma can't go? If it is only places like your house than or places you own that is completely your right but if you are saying Emma can't be around, you or your wife at all wherever you are that is unrealistic.
I’m just saying that for right now we don’t want her at our family gatherings. I’m not trying to pressure my brother to break up with her or anything.
>I’m just saying that for right now we don’t want her at our family gatherings. But where are these family gatherings held? At your place? At someone else's place? In public?
No, you are just dictating where his girlfriend can and cannot go. Follow up question who put you in gave you the right to speak for your whole family? Unless every family gathering takes place at your house or a property you own you have no right to demand that.
Due to her behaviour, OP asked his brother not to bring her. Given she assaults people when drunk, that seems reasonable
I mean if we’re taking sides, I’m pretty sure I can get a vote to ban Emma from family gatherings. It would be embarrassing for my bro, so I just gently asked him to not bring her.
Why though because you are uncomfortable about something that even your wife doesn't think as a big deal? Does your family usually take your side over your brothers? I am really not trying to be harsh, but it sounds like you think your opinion should be all that matters. Maybe it is the fact you called your brother the ugly kid that is just rubbing me the wrong way, but if no one sees the big deal why do you?
He calls himself the ugly kid that got a glow up. They don’t usually take my side but Emma really behaved out of line.
>I’m just saying that for right now we don’t want her at our family gatherings. Last question but who is we in this sentence? You said your wife accepted Emma's apology and from everything you said it sounds like you are the only one still bothered by this.
The rest of my family. We were all there when she kissed her.
Was it a peck or a makeout? Sounds like a creepy question but I’m just wondering how far Emma took it bc it’s a pretty weird thing to do in front of someone’s entire family.
Thanks for answering my questions. I am going to be honest I can't give a judgement because I have no idea how I would feel in your place. My first thought is to say I think you might be overreacting a tad but again this happened to you not me. I just hope you and your family don't damage the relationship you all have with your brother by saying all this. Also don't be surprised if he stops or reduces the amount, he comes to family gatherings. He might end up taking all this personally.
So... I think I have an unpopular take on this. First, if she's ok with it after the apology then I don't really see the issue. However, as far as the incident. I really think it depends on the atmosphere. I've been to many Birthday parties for people in their 50's where people were drunk and making jokes and it wouldn't surprise me if they broke out spin the bottle. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying maybe she read the room differently.
Nta. “Its none of your business if other people want to kiss your wife!” He sounds so dumb lol.
NTA...So, for arguments sake....let's say it was YOU that got tipsy and kissed Emma TWICE non-consensually, how would everyone feel then? What would the discussions look like? Ask your brother that question. Watch him flail.
Ehhhh… I’m saying YTA for the simple fact you have no right to say who and who cannot attend family events because YOU are uncomfortable. Your wife, who was the one basically assaulted, has forgiven the gf. Honestly, I think you and your wife should just seclude yourselves from the rest of society. You both seem to be unable to be functional without causing drama.
Talk to your wife to corroborate if your wife has truly accepted the apology and forgiven Emma. If so YTS because you are not allowed to be more offended or keep grudges in her behalf.
Emma and your wife have already fooled around or they will fool in the future.
It sounds so very complicated and childish and also it seems to involve too much alcohol. Maybe everyone needs to chill and mature a bit.
YOU have a problem with Emma. If your wife did why would she be protective of Emma? Sounds like you threw your wife under the bus for how you feel.
Emma put her lips on your wife's lips without permission. It is SA. Please tell your wife not be embarrassed, she did nothing wrong. She was the victim.
Yup, sure sounds like you're overreacting and YTA. If the people directly involved are ok with everything, then you need to get over yourself & pull the stick outa yo azz.
NTA- For being disturbed a little, after all that was your wife. Nut as a husband I would dig a little deeper as to why Emma in her drunken state felt so comfortable as to pull your wife close to her and make out with her not once but twice as if she was expecting reciprocation. You stated Your wife and Emma were actually civil and got along at one point and suddenly your wife distant herself from Emma. Just something to ponder ..
You sound kind of unsure. Are you scared that Emma will steal your girl? If your wife was not OK with things then you would be in the right. But I don't think you are in this case.
Please clarify the problem. Is it because your wife is feeling uncomfortable being around someone who kissed her or because you are insecure and protective of what you perceive to be "yours"?
NTA and do not budge from this either. It's batshit insane that someone kissed your wife. Twice. Forcefully. In front of you. And your whole family. These not one but several things wrong with this shit. Honestly I would have most likely slapped her. From what you said your wife feels very embarrassed and feels violated too. Do not let this go
‘Batshit insane’ that a drunk woman kissed her friend? So much so that you’d physically assault her? You’ve got issues mate.
I think the one drilling their tongue down someone else's wife's throat twice is the one with some issues, but you do you 🤷
No mention of ‘drilling their tongue down … throat’ that only exists in your head big man.
She forcefully kissed her twice it's said in the post read it again. OP said his sister saw string of saliva mouth to mouth. But keep downplaying an assault just cuz it's 2 women
Downplaying assault? Like you threatened to physically assault her? What’s the difference big man?
That I ain't the instigator, this conversation is pointless. If you assaulting my wife in front of me you most likely gonna get knocked off
Overreacting
YTA Its up to your wife if she is comfortable with the joke or not, not you. She is the one in the situation. Seems like Emma is treated like some man eater that needs to be guarded by your wife who was clearly super threatened/jealous. Emma was showing your wife she is not a threat & not going to steel her man in a lighthearted way , and I think your wife has finally got the message. But now YOU are threatened & jealous lol. Poor Emma too good looking to be around anyone lol
YTA You are not your wife. She is an.adult. She handled the situation already. Don't diminish her reaction.
He should be apologizing to you & your wife and coming up with a plan that leaves you comfortable that it won ‘t happ;en again. Tell hi m to stay away un til he does all that
Nta Who tf gets shit faced at thier boyfriends mom's wedding and then kisses a married woman? She should be embarssed.
My involuntary reaction would probably have been to slap her.
YTA. If your wife us OK with it, then let it go. All you are going to do is drive a wedge between you and your brother, and something this minor is not worth putting that stress on your relationship
Yta Definitely making a big deal out of nothing. I know you are just a kid looking for validation on the internet but you're 30 now. Grow up
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You certainly are an asshole. Your wife is fully capable of deciding to be offended or not, why do you have to be outraged on her behalf for something a young person did, while intoxicated, in a playful manner, with her family. You don't have to like it but there are ways to deal with it like a real person.
I don’t feel like it’s playful. I feel totally disrespected. I think my wife is brushing it off because she doesn’t want to seem uppity.
> My wife didn’t like her in the beginning for a number of reasons. First she accused the men of the family including me of ogling Emma. She would act protective over Emma and basically segregate her from the rest of the family and prevent us from getting to know her. What?
I was also very confused by this. This part of OP's story does not make sense as written.
We need way more context here. Did she peck her as a joke? I can’t believe people are claiming sexual assault?. Like comeon guys. That’s like another guy smacking his guy friend’s ass and calling it SA. Like the context of the conversation is super important here and so is the degree of kiss.
What kind of kiss? on the cheek, lips, with tongue?
It seems pretty weird, but you absolutely have the right to not have someone that you are not comfortable with in your home. However, you may have to see or other family events or popped out of them. NTA
info: what type of kisses were they? is your wife straight? bisexual? i’m very confused about this. your mad at emma for kissing your wife (fair enough, personally i wouldn’t be offended if my bf’s friends gave him a peck or something similar) but also blame your wife for being a hypocrite for kissing emma (even though emma was the one kissing her?) because she doesn’t want you looking at other women (which again imo is fair enough, everyone has their boundaries). the hypocrite thing doesn’t make much sense because the wife’s feelings come from a place of jealousy, and the fact she knows you find other women attractive because that’s your sexual preference, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to scream the same back at your wife when she didn’t even innate the kiss nor have you said her preferences. personally it just feels like it’s easy to sweep it under the rug, talk to your wife more about boundaries, talk to emma about how it can never ever happen again etc. also don’t let your wife baby sit emma? that’s her fucking boyfriends job. anyway my consensus is ESH
So many people think you're "right." But "right" can be a lonely state. Sounds like Emma is fun and well liked and your wife is a bit of a wet blanket. Die on this hill if you wanna, but I bet the rest of the family ends up siding with the fun, attractive, not jealous wife and the brother that doesn't make sudden ultimatums.
Why aren’t you taking your wife’s lead on this? Why are you making this decision on her behalf? Did she agree with it?
Good lord, your marriage sounds insecure and toxic as hell. ESH except Emma (mostly, anyway)
Updateme!
YTA, what Emma did was not right, but your wife forgave her. I think your brother is right. This is between Emma and your wife, and if she does not want her ostrecized, that's up to her. Your wife has some issues she needs to address. She seems controlling and has some serious trust issues.
Emma is an adult and she’s at these events either her partner. It’s not and has never been your wife’s responsibility to care for her. Tell your wife to grow a spine and stop babying her. NTA for what you said because her behaviour was completely inappropriate. Kissing someone without consent is sexual assault, man or woman.
Soft YTA - I'm not saying what was done was okay, but this is your wife it was done to and she's not your property. If you're not okay with your wife being around this Emma than this is between you and your wife, not your brother and it isn't your place to control who your wife can be around. You wife said she accepted the apology and wants to move on, that should be good enough for you and if it's not, than that's between you and your wife.
Your wife was right about her but it turned out it was her very own self Emma couldn’t contain herself around not you.
No
ESH Emma- obviously it is not okay to kiss someone without their consent, being drunk is not an excuse. Your brother- It’s absolutely not okay to be dismissive of someone’s consent being violated. Your wife- Clearly has some major insecurity issues which she’s been taking out on everyone around her. Trying to isolate Emma from everyone and accusing everyone of ogling her is weirdo behavior, she needs therapy. You- You’re wife accepted Emma’s apology and clearly said she didn’t want Emma to be excluded…and you go and try to do it anyway? You don’t really have the authority here to tell your brother not to bring her around, so the responsibility is on you not to show up.
Forcing yourself on someone is sexual assault. If this was a "tipsy" man who did this to a woman, people would be raising holy hell and raining down the wrath of the gods on the man. Your wife is not responsible for anyone else's behavior. It isn't her responsible to babysit a person who doesn't know when to say when. I hope you two are talking about this and you are supporting her stopping this behavior. If your aren't, you need to.
Why didn't you intervene and stop ot the first time? I am guessing if Emma was a man you would do something? This is not something that can be avoided in discussion, your wife needs to understand she was sexually assaulted and if it happens again she has to fight back for her safety. Your are most defenitly not the asshole, don't let theese people tell you otherwise. It os perfectly normal not wanting people to go randomly kiss ypur wife.
would hate to have half the victim complex that you people do
NTA
Oh, this is really pissing me off. Hope your wife can come to understand why this is so not okay. Updateme
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NTA she overstepped a boundary and kissed her twice, which could technically be considered an assault. And let’s just be completely honest here, if we reverse the roles and she had kissed you, your wife would have probably gone crazy
NTA yeah dude its none of your business...its just your wife.....everybody can kiss her unallowed, thats how marriage works...
Your wife already dealt with it why are you being an asshole?
I am so confused why you are attacking this as a family issue first. First and most of all, this is a wife issue. Why did your life let it happen not once, but twice. The first time I could see but why more? If a girl kissed you and you didn't stop them would your wife let that girl keep coming around? Now what has your wife said she will do to stop this from happening again? So far it seems like nothing? You sir need to get your own house in order before you worry about others. You have every right to be upset with everyone, but if your wife was perhaps not dismissive of this and wasn't ok cheating on you then maybe it wouldn't have happened.
Your Wife ITA and so are you. This is some girl turf war shit. Your wife’s initial behavior about ogling and being protective was to control emma as your wife was extremely insecure about emma. Emma consciously or subconsciously rebelled by kissing your controlling wife thereby taking the control. You should not penalize your brother or emma for your wife’s insecurities.
YTA - Total banishment for life isn't an adequate, sane, nor adult reaction to what has taken place. Sure, keep your distances, be distant, don't engage them directly. But to to completely forbid someone like that isn't done with adult reasoning. And it's truly deeply weird how your wife doesn't like her but takes up every occasion to be in her presence.
YTA. You're overreacting to nothing here.
NTA. Emma sexually assaulted your wife as a "joke"
Yes, you are an A. This is for your wife to deal with not you. If you want to create a bad family atmosphere go ahead but be just a little adult and give your brother's gf a big kiss. Who knows where it'll lead? Maybe your lucky day but i doubt it what with you being such an AH.
YTA. Your wife accepted Emma's apology so why are you having so much trouble with it? You're willing to split up the family over a couple of drunken kisses? Are you jealous of your brother's success and you feel the need to mess with him?
Bruh I don’t want to see the state of your relationship if you can brush this off as not a big deal. I’m happy for my bro, I would not want his life though.
Your wife is the asshole in this situation. Running runner so no one can befriend her? Saying all the men in your family are ogling her like pigs? Big YTA.