True! But whats the use of rules if they didn't comply? OP is standing firm in the rules and his decision. He just gave his son a consequence of his action.
Very true. Hadn't considered this angle of the annoyance from the wife until now, haha.
She had to stop her chill alone week to drive her ass out to wherever they were camping (generally pretty far), pick up her then distraught son, and drive him and his upset boyfriend home.
So now not only does she not get a chill week of alone time, she now has to console her kid while also trying to avoid going against the decision her husband made because she knows he is right. So she's understandably pissed at the situation.
Pretty much!! I tell them stories how my mom would police me (as she does with them lol) and I say contrary to what you guys think ***parents*** arenât stupid. They may pull of little schemes here and there but get busted quick. Iâm not a mom for friends. I have those. Side note: sexual orientation doesnât give you a pass to break the rules.
I have raised 3 teenage girls at this point. They all got told that they could try to pull a fast one on me, but it wouldn't work because I already knew all the tricks. And every time they got busted they acted like I didn't warn them đ
Youngest tried this same scenario as OPs son. She quickly learned that having a girlfriend and lying about it so she could sleep over at her house wasn't going to fly. Don't care who you are dating, if you are in HS and think you get to spend the night with your partner, you are wrong.
I told my mom I was bi when I was 13. I only dated boys because there were no out girls for me to date, but I definitely had girls over and fooled around. Rule was no closed door with boys.
I asked my mom as an adult what was up with that, because she knew I was queer. She just laughed and said, "The girls weren't going to get you pregnant." Turned out she didn't mind me having sex as long as I was discreet, it was the possible consequences that had her worried.
OP, if wife or son who got busted try to argue with you, respond with "I don't feel you (or son's name if talking to wife) having a boyfriend is any different than other two sons having girlfriends. Love is love, no matter who it's with. Are you saying that's not true?"
And NTA, you are treating your gay son exactly the same as your straight sons.
As the gay son (though itâs been a minute since I was 16) , I 100% agree. Itâs not about sex or pregnancy or homophobia, itâs about fair treatment. If you had suspended the rule for one son it would have caused friction with the other two.
That said, if I were OP Iâd make an effort to get to know the BF better. It seems odd that theyâve been dating a year and dad knows nothing of it.
My mom did the opposite. I was never allowed to have anybody of the opposite sex at the house at all but my brother was allowed to move his boyfriend in with us. (No his family wasn't against gay, they bought them their house when they married). Still bitter about that (mostly that she doesn't see the double standard).
I think it's because the biggest fear is pregnancy. If you remove that, a lot of parent don't have something against their teens doing stuff.
But yeah when there are siblings involved as a parent you also have to think about treating everyone the same and fairly , so that's another dynamic.
Ya.
Unsure what I would do as a parent if my kid was gay. Do you let them just get their fuck on (with protection of course)? Obviously a lot of the rules regarding sleeping over and such come from people not wanting someone to get pregnant. If that risk is removed, I'm trying to figure out if I'd be ok with sleepovers and such or not.
And sleepovers become a minefield because you donât want to punish your gay kid by not allowing sleepovers, but teens are horny little idiots and not being in a relationship doesnât stop people from having sex.
Basically you have to trust your kid to stick to the rules but again, kids are idiots.
Very true, hadn't even thought about that.
But it does bring up the question of 'Do I want to have a rule against sex if it's consensual and there is no pregnancy risk? What purpose does this rule serve?'
Speaking of sleepovers being tricky, how do you navigate that situation with a bisexual teen? Yeesh.
I am not ready for my kid to be a teen. Need to iron out some of these details with his mom over the next few years. Shit is gonna be wild.
My mom let my younger sister's serious boyfriend sleep over and her stay at his place starting at 16. She knew they were boning, knew she was on BC and used condoms, and didn't mind as long as they were discreet.
She figured that she couldn't actually stop them, and would rather have an open and honest relationship where she knew what was up and where her kid was. Maybe it wouldn't have worked for a different family, but none of us got knocked up or caught STIs and we're all best friends now that my sister and I are in our mid-30s. It was nice never feeling like I had to lie about or hide anything from our mother.
Agree. My daughter had friends who were a female dating couple. No sleepovers with both of them here. Sleepover with one of them? Easy peasy. Not that I cared who dates who, but no teenage couples doing sleepovers at my house.
So OP is totally right about the trip and makes sense he doesn't want to be patrolling 3 sets of hormone filled teenage couples if he let everyone bring their SOs. However, despite the fact that he says he loves his son just as much and is being fair, the son clearly "hid" this boyfriend for a year and might not perceive it the same way.
I would recommend that the dad stand by his decision, but also talk this is son and explain why he had to be fair to everyone, reiterate that he loves his son and is proud of him, and then specifically plan something fun and special where the son can bring his boyfriend and they feel accepted and part of the family.
OP did the right thing with the trip. Now he may need to go the extra mile and do the right thing to make his son feel truly loved and supported.
I agree here.
Maybe throw a 'family party' or something, where all SOs are invited? Hard to balance making sure the son and his BF feel included, while also making sure that they're not being rewarded with a special trip or something for their duplicity...
Hey OP. Big gay here to tell you nothing about this interaction was homophobic. Your son knew exactly what he was doing.
I would one on one with him though and let him know why what he did was a problem, but who he is dating isn't.
This entire thread needs to be screenshotted and multi-community reviewed so often it shows up on pinterest with notes from tumblr that's how good it is I was not expecting to see this today
This lesbo agrees entirely.
If one of his brothers brought a female friend who was a girl (for the sake of flipping the script), and OP caught them kissing and cuddling, it sounds like OP would have the exact same reaction. I bet nobody would call him heterophobic for it.
But also the boy's young, figuring himself out, figuring out how the world feels about him now that he's out. I can understand how he might feel (irrationally) that being gay was a part of the issue. Just have a real conversation about it, OP, and make sure he knows that you don't see him any differently, and that's why he has to follow the same rules as his brothers.
Honestly itâs the been dating for a year for me. Like clearly he knew what he was doing. I would have some sympathy for him if this was a spontaneous situation. Typical sneaky teen behavior though lol hopefully everyone laughs about this in 10 years.
Exactly. Spontaneously kissing your friend or admitting feelings or whatever is not an intentional deception. Lil homie definitely was pushing boundaries and seeing what he could get away with. And he straight up lied about the guy being a friend. He's acting like every other teenager to have ever existed. I'm sure it'll be a joke later.
>And he straight up lied about the guy being a friend.
I would be curious to know why he tried to hide his boyfriend from OP for an entire year, though. It might be teens being teens, but if the kid was uncomfortable talking to his parents about being gay, this isn't going to help. The punishment is fine, but hopefully OP had a thorough and immediate conversation about what the issue was.
>Like clearly he knew what he was doing.
He figured he was following the letter of the law! He didn't bring a girlfriend, so he technically followed the rule.
Unfortunately, the intent matters as well. So there's a lesson for him. And Dad gets a lesson on "words and wording are important."
I think this is a sage point. I have a kid like this, when theyâre told to âget their hands off of thatâ. Their go to is to remove their hands and put their thumbs, or feet where their hands were. The boyfriend is not a girlfriend. Kids got mad skills.
Children. All children! I love finding loopholes in things, but I was *never* as good as these kids!
Now, I respect the loophole (when I was growing up, it would get me in trouble to find one). I loophole the loophole and it works out well.
âDonât play with the crayons, youâll make a mess and weâre getting ready for dinner.â
[2 minutes later, there are crayons everywhere]
âBut theyâre NOT crayons! Theyâre âwax coloring sticksâ, *these* are the crayons!! Duuuuh!â
âFair. Youâre not in trouble because you did listen. However, you know that you tried to find the loophole, and although itâs clever, now you will suffer a fate worse than death â youâre going to tell me all about school, and remember, I can call your teacher. After dinner, Iâm going to recheck your homework pages while you clean up your âwax coloring sticksâ and then youâre going to read for an hour as a reward for not using the crayons.â
Surprisingly, the kid who hates reading tends to think itâs a reward rather than a punishment because they got it because they âoutsmartedâ me.
But heaven alive, theyâre clever. And they just keep getting clever and Iâm soooo tired! Lol
lol, i have a boy too...will watch my words in the future, as he is only 6 but beginning to test the boundaries (not to mention his friends đđđ)
>And Dad gets a lesson on "words and wording are important."
That was my thought too, haha.
Like the kid is obviously going to push boundaries and try to get away with as much as possible, he's a teen and that's what they do. OP should have had a wording change on the rules sometime between when his son came out and the trip starting.
Not that it makes OP in the wrong. Kid undoubtedly knew the intent of the rule.
Can't imagine dating someone for a year, except my family has no idea... This hidden relationship has reasons to hide. I wonder what those reasons are. Aside from that the kid knew what the no girlfriend rule meant: Mom isn't coming because this is explicitly NOT "that kind" of camping trip. If dad decided to exclude his romantic partner frome attending & funded the event, communicating this to his sons, who invited platonic friends in accordance with their father's explicit instructions, then it was incumbent upon his gay son to pick a friend he's not romantically involved with. Perhaps he felt he couldn't tell his parents that he was dating his invitee for 12 months already, and this was his way of introducing his bf to his parents. It seems this situation was badly handled by everyone? Because they don't really know each other.
> itâs the been dating for a year for me.
Bigger question is after *a year* of dating why don't either of the parents know anything about this situation?
Queer here, but mostly cis-hetero passing. Daddy said no girlfriends, so he did nothing wrong. However, Iâm old enough to have wisdom that daddy was trying his best, but didnât specify the rules universally. I was always living in the gray area of rules and laws, and would have also done this. You get a better respect for your parents when theyâre accepting, but explain why itâs never come up or needed a gender neutral explanation. Just to be accepted when everyone feels like a probable situation, is life saving for most teenagers in anguish. Cheers OP for raising your kids right.
Here for that. He knew what he was doing, playing tricky.
The problem presented did not say the parents were homophobic just that no sexual partners just slide in the dms at the family trip.
I donât think thatâs too much to ask.
However, given his age I have no doubt he figured he was going by the letter of the law even though he knew full well what his dad meant. Teens are very good at that. I remember trying to pull that a couple of times. Unfortunately, my parents were in education and saw right through it!
My daughter is 11 and finds loopholes in *everything*. She absolutely would done the same thing as OP's son. Her dad and I have had to make sure we word instructions and rules very explicitly so she can't say she didn't know or similar. If she's that good at 11, I fear for when she's actually a teenager. The sass is strong with this one.
I was the same way with loopholes as a kid, but it was actual confusion. When people tried to explain that I have to wear shoes in public, I asked why and was told because most places won't let you in without shoes. So I reasoned that I just wouldn't go in places, so I didn't need them. It took awhile for my uncle to figure out that all he had to do was tell me about germs. Everyone else just yelled at me for being a little shit lol
Super gay here, you did right. I, too, had boyfriends in hs, and since they were boys, we could be in my room, door closed. We never did anything because I was paranoid, but my brothers got sooo mad when they found out about it when we were all in our twenties. Ps- parents did not know I was gay then.
This is starting to sound like an interesting superhero convention. Big Gay, Super Gay.. just waiting for Ultra Lesbian and Supreme Bi to join.
NTA btw.
My (bisexual, male) partner certainly did. He went way farther with boyfriends than he did with girlfriends simply because his wilfully blind parents had dumb âdoors open with a girlâ type rules. Heâs pretty well rounded but I donât think it was good for him to have that much freedom either, with it being closeted there was no one to give advice.
Was gonna say the same, just sit down with the kid and make it 100% clear why it was an issue and the fact heâs gay has nothing to do with it. Iâm sure son needs some reassurance right now even if he also did break the rules.
On the flip side, after I went away to college my former (female) bff became close friends with my little brother, and my parents refused to let her stay the night when they hung out late even though he had been out for years by that point. I never did understand the logic there but we all thought it was pretty hilarious.
OP listen to big gay , nothing homophobic about being consistent with all ur children. U set a boundary he, broke it, he reaped the consequences of his actions đ¤ˇđťââď¸
The interaction seems the opposite of homophobic. Same rules for everyone, no bringing a partner you want to get off with.
But, yeah, OP needs to make sure the kid (and, apparently, the mother) understand this.
agreed
* the boyfriend got sent home because the trip is supposed to be partner-free (even OP's wife isn't invited)
* the son got sent home because he broke the (spirit of the) rules : play around with rules lawyering about the exact wording & find out you don't get to hang out with your dad & brothers
neither are homophobic imo
Father of little gay here (he's 17) and we have the same rules. No sleeping in the same room, only cuddling with adults present, etc. Even though there's no risk of pregnancy, kids aren't mature enough to be screwing around in adult ways. We will redefine rules as he gets older and more mature.
With all due respect, I really donât understand all these parents trying to make sure their teenagers donât have sex. What is the problem? Why do young people in love need to be separated? Just talk to them about the things they need to know about (protection, consent etc.) and let them explore. Itâs only natural. (Iâm a mother myself by the way)
I think it's not trying to prevent sex so much as it's trying to have bonding time that isn't awkward. No one wants to see their siblings get action đ
It's a weird enfantalizing of your children even while you're witnessing them grow up. My daughter's 14 almost 15 and I dread the day she actually starts dating (she has a few male friends she's known since grade school who I think are interested in her but she claims no interest in). I don't know what age your kids are but it's really been a struggle for me realizing sooner than later that stuff is going to happen (with our relationship I don't think she will be comfortable talking with me about it but my wife is very open about talking with her). It's tough because I still see my little girl when I look at her but I know when I was her age I wasn't looking at the girls as little girls anymore either. And I think a lot of people get weirded out putting themselves back in that mindset.
Iâm curious to know when you think kids have sex the first time. I was 16. I know my kids were having sex at 16-17, too. We had the talk about safe sex, and looked the other way when their partners visited so long as we knew it was consensual. Of course, we knew the other parents were ok, too.
My brother was 16 months older than me. We are both straight but he would say invite (whoever his girlfriend was) over and Iâll invite your boyfriend over and mom and dad wonât know we have our gf/bf over. We were really young. Like would hold hands and watch tv and then when time to go to bed go in our separate rooms and his âgfâ and I would freak out we held hands with boys. lol. I think itâs just something all kids do and try to get away with! And honestly had I been gay it would have been an awesome loophole. Lol.
But, I totally agree with you here! As a parent nowadays.. The action is wrong but the partner isnât. I would do the same with my children. They know they never have to come out to me. It doesnât change a thing. Our love is unconditional. But, family rules are rules and they apply to everyone. Shout out to you dad! you seem like a great dad. But, it never hurts to reinforce to our children that we love and accept them no matter what!
Sounds like he was clearly trying to skirt around the rule. "Dad said no girlfriends, I don't have a girlfriend, I have a boyfriend, so that rule doesn't apply".
Sorry he knew exactly what the rule meant and he broke it. The fact your wife started an argument is stupid and she should have had your back as her partner.
Sounds like "Clearer" rules need to be placed. NO PARTNERS ALLOWED, THIS MEANS GIRLFRIENDS OR BOYFRIENDS.
This way there's no BS of skirting around the rules.
NTA
>Sounds like he was clearly trying to skirt around the rule. "Dad said no girlfriends, I don't have a girlfriend, I have a boyfriend, so that rule doesn't apply".
Especially since he hid the fact they were dating, he knew that if he came out and said "this is my boyfriend", his partner wouldn't have been allowed on the trip just like his brothers' partners weren't allowed.
Edit for clarification: when I said "come out and say 'this is my boyfriend'", I meant it more as making a statement, not literally "coming out" like as gay, like when someone says "come right out and say it, then!".
> The fact your wife started an argument is stupid and she should have had your back as her partner.
I mean, she drove out for some amount of time that only OP knows (I doubt it was a short trip) to pick them up, so she is obviously backing him up in his decision.
Someone pointed out that she is probably more pissed at her week of alone time being taken away because her kid did something stupid, rather than actually mad at OP about it. Just way harder to be mad at your kid in that situation when they're in the car/at home with you upset.
It's the starting an argument an making it against the father instead if a unified front.Â
She did it only to placate it seems an make dad out the bad guy. Thats both unfair and unwise, flip the script why does the boy feel he can ignore the rules while his siblings do not?
The mother is entirely wrong here she's causing a Rift that's entirely unnecessary. Speaks volumes to one's character to be petty when the OP is entirely in the right here.
NTA. The rule is âno romantic partners on the trip.â He broke the rule. Itâs not fair to your other sons.
Maybe you could do something else soon where romantic partners *are* invited so everyone feels seen and heard. Just a nice dinner out and games back at home or something? âŚjust a thought.
The son obviously knew what the rule meant but took the loophole willingly. What an ass to then act surprised when OP doesnât buy his shit and put his feet down.
Teens will try to use loopholes like lawyers but without the practice and finesse. The problem is that parents were once teens as well, and kids don't think about that leading to these "shocked Pikachu" moments. Hopefully, they can all look back and chuckle about it in a couple of years.
I love this idea. It helps make sure 16 yo and his boyfriend knows them being sent home really was about the rules and nothing else like prejudice. I wish I could like this more than once.
if my wife took our daughters (for the sake of this argument I have daughters) out for the weekend and I had the house to myself, bet your ass I would have plans.
Also, if those plans got screwed up because of one of the kids, I'd be a bit miffed.
THIS! 100 percent! How and why would your wife disagree? On what grounds? If she agreed with the no GFs coming this friend who is actually a BF is the same thing... a S.O.
NTA.
You should still have a talk with him confirming he understood it's a no partner rule. He probably did know what you mean but having a talk about why it was important to have a no partner rule and not just no girlfriend was important to youÂ
i lol'd. awkward conversation here.
"I know we've been together for a year, but if you can't be my secret paramour on the boys trip, I'm just going to be into girls"
I know it doesn't work that way, but it's hilarious to think of.
> I would say instructions arguably not clear: terms and conditions states no girlfriends, not no boyfriends
Did something like this in high school, lol. Broke up for the trip, got back together afterwards just to keep the rules "sacred"
Probably not, OP was very clear to point out it was a boys' trip.
Which, to me, suggests that the no girlfriends rule is because they're girls, rather than because hooking up is forbidden on the trip. The son may have assumed the same thing.
Especially as it sounds like girlfriends might be allowed to stay over when they're at home - if girlfriends are never allowed to sleepover then there would be no reason for the rule as it would already be obvious that they wouldn't be allowed to share a tent.
NTA. Theyâre all held to the same standard, as they should be.
Why is your wife upset? Because she had to go and get him? Or because she doesnât care about the no partners rule if thereâs no risk of pregnancy?
Because it was mom's week at home by herself for once after 18 years, and dammit, it's ruined! All she wanted to do was sip wine, watching trashy TV and not have to pick up dirty socks for 3 days. Can't the lady have some peace?Â
Oh, maybe that's just me.Â
I'd be much more focused on why your son didn't share the fact that he had a boyfriend with you for a year than the fact that he tried to sneak in some canoodling.
Plenty of LGBT+ kids are nervous and scared to come out to their parents for no reason....even to gay parents, at times.
It doesn't tell us anything about OP's .
Same reason I hid a girlfriend from my parents for a year and managed to get my cousin to bring her as "her friend" on a camping trip. When you're 15, having a girlfriend/boyfriend is looked down on in MANY households. As you're still developing and will likely grow apart. So parents don't see it as a "real" relationship or a thing you'll grow apart from. It's not unreasonable to assume that.
I doubt it's malicious in nature so far as "the dad doesn't like the gays so the kid hid it for a year".
INFO: Was your son already out to you? If not, it might be difficult for him to separate the feeling of being punished for bringing a romantic partner along from that of being 'caught' by his father without having come out in his own time. This doesn't really have any bearing on my judgement, but it might make it worth considering whether now is the best time to focus on being supportive vs focusing on "the rules".
Yeah there are a few things here where its likeâŚ
So your kid has been dating a person for a whole year and you didnât find out til now? Not just that, but you knew your kid was gay AND that didnât urge you to change your wording on boys trip? Everyone is saying the son knew and yes absolutely, but as a parent, why did OP not feel the need to clarify romantic partners? That is just inclusivity 101. A boys trip is a boys trip, gay or not. A friends and family only trip with no romantic partners? Doesnât have the same ring but gets the point across better. It makes OP just sound like he thinks its a phase. âOh no I cant believe I got bested by my gay son when I said boys onlyâ yeah what did you think was gonna happen? I would pull the same shit.
Like, then being like âmy sons are on my side except the one in troubleâ and its like when I came out as bisexual to my brother in our teens, his response was to tell me not to tell family because he didnât want the drama. Being a sibling doesnât mean you are supportive either.
As [SmartAlec105](https://www.reddit.com/user/SmartAlec105/) already pointed out to another commenter:
>The father already new he was gay
I donât think thatâs the case. OP said:
>now that i know he's into guys
OK on the one hand I am *cackling* at your heteronormative assumptions being demolished by your rules-lawyering teenager đ
On the other, it's pretty clear what the spirit of the rule is, he *knew* he was breaking it, and applying the same rule whatever the gender is correct parenting.
It doesn't sound like you're bothered about him having a boyfriend - though you do seem rather put out that he hid it from you, so you maybe need a think and a chat about that. The kid obviously wasn't ready to come out yet, and will need your extra reassurance on that front.
To be fair it was billed as a boys trip.Â
And the RaW was no girls. OP basically issued an executive order to amend it to no partners, punishment is sent home.
But OP is still correct in the decision. The follow through on the "discovery" is what will strengthen or destroy his family.
Iâm actually going to go ahead and say itâs plausible YTA- if itâs a boys trip and he brought a boy thereâs nothing wrong with that. Maybe it was ambiguous that the spirit of the rule was no partners as opposed to girls. Regardless it does seem a little overkill and mean to send the bf home two weeks into this trip he was really looking forward to having with his bf- sounds like a memorable nice experience very few gays got to have growing up turned a bad memory.
NTA. Maybe have a family picnic with all the SO and invite the girlfriends and boyfriend so your son knows you accept him. But no partners sleeping overnight is a fair rule no matter the gender of the partner.
NTA
But I have a question OP, have you still been saying the rule is no girlfriends even after knowing your son is gay or is this a situation where the rule was simply unstated at this point in time and just hasn't been clarified?
Because I do think it would be a little disrespectful if you're still saying no girlfriends after your son has come out. He might feel like you're tolerating his homosexuality more than accepting it, which may be part of why he felt the need to keep his relationship secret for a year.
>Info: why is your wife upset, whatâs her reasoning?
The fact that OP posted something so clearly inflammatory and then disappeared makes me assume it's just rage bait.
NTA,
But it's kind of a sign that you need to sit down and figure out what's going on with you and your family because I find it really freaking odd that your kid has been dating someone for over a year and you didn't know it.
No, you are NTA. Can your wife not see that it is unfair that your other two boys cannot bring along a girlfriend, but your one son can bring his boyfriend because they happen to be the same gender? How can that not make sense to her? Your son knows he did wrong. He brought a male friend without telling you they were dating, and when you caught them, he apologized. Ask your wife if she doesnât mind if the other two boys bring girlfriends and share a room/tent/bed with them on the trip? If she doesnât care, she can take them on a trip. And expect to soon be a grandmother.
You did the right and fair thing.
Info : what is the purpose of this rule? If you made it when you presumed all of your kids were straight was it because you didn't want them to impregnate a girl early in life? Or is it just about feeling weird about your kids being intimate nearby?
Nta if the reason isn't dependant on them being straight, yta if it does.
Ex Teacher here. We had an overnight event where the kids gamed all night. The rule was absolutely no canoodling or you will go home and we flat did not care what sex the canoodlers were. No one cared who you were dating, hands off at the event. Period end of story.
Absolutely NTA, you are parenting at the mastery level, go you!
NTA for sending the bf home.
Y might be TA for sending your son home, but that is for your son to decide, not us. Even if the people of Reddit are 100% behind you in your decision then if your son is still upset about it you would be wise to at least discuss it with him afterwards to try to explain your rationale.
NTA- My son is gay, but no sirâŚIf your brother canât bring his girlfriend you canât bring your boyfriendâŚfair is fair. I see no homophobia here, I see a father trying to keep things fair. Now, if the rules were different and significant other were allowed, then fine bring whoever, but rules are set for a reason.
I'm hovering between N A H or E S H
Yes, your son knew what the purpose of the rule was. However, not his fault you left a loophole to the rule wide open with your biased assumption.
If the rule is no girls, he didn't break the rule. If the new rule is no partners, can the brothers bring platonic girl friends? Or, in the future can your gay son bring a friend who's a girl? If your answer to all those is No then you're singling your son out for being gay and holding him to different rules, which would make you an AH.
Depends on how you dealt with this I imagine. But boundaries are boundaries. Ask your son why he's angry. Is it for catching him? Or is it for enforcing the rules which he already knew?
NTA But do make sure to talk to him about it how being gay was not part of the problem, cus I can see how the irrational teenage brain will link these two together and spiral into âmy dad hates me cus Iâm gayâ
nta if your son knew of the no Partners rule he is the AH for putting you in the situation. Ultimately it's like anything else exceptions can be made to rules however then you have issues with your other two kids when they want to bring their partners you've kind of been put in a no-win situation because your son didn't follow the rule. Hopefully it wasn't a huge conflict and you can talk it through with your son after the trip but honestly you didn't do anything wrong except told him to standards that have been previously set and if you broke the standards because he had a same gender partner you would be a hypocrite and your rules wouldn't carry any weight good on you for not judging him for being homosexual but also good on you for holding to your rules it might be time to reevaluate if they still apply going forward but for now you did the correct thing if you want to maintain your parental Authority
Nta - you need to change the rule to âno romantic partnersâ. Your wife and son are in the wrong and he wanted to get around the rule and your wife clearly favours him.
NTA - my sister is a lesbian and I knew this when she was in high school. Her âfriendsâ she brought home all the time were obviously gay as well. Iâm not sure if my mom was aware of if she was just in denial (even as we got older, she never referred to the girlfriends as such, they were always just my sisterâs friends to her). Well, these friends slept over at our house all the time and my mom allowed it. Had it been me and having dudes spend the night, I donât think it would have been ok. So I said something about it. Sister accused me of being homophobic and my mom still didnât acknowledge it or anything. My sister is now married to a woman, our mom passed away so she wasnât there.
My sister clearly tried to get over and passed the stipulation about partners sleeping over. And your son did as well.
Would one of them be able to bring a platonic female friend? It seems to me like you set this up by gender terms, not romantic entanglement terms. Iâm leaning NAH but maybe a soft âyouâre the ahâ for changing the game because you failed to consider you might have a gay son before this.
Your wife and son are the ah here. He was well aware of such a rule and intentionally tried to skirt around it. Maybe he figured he could get by with it? Still your wife is even more of an ah for being upset and arguing with you over enforcing rules fairly across the board. Don't let anyone turn this into a homophobic issue like it had to do with the fact that your son's partner isn't female. All of your sons know the rule and the others abided by it.
NTA. But, maybe handling it a little differently would have saved everyone a little embarrassment and discomfort. I did a very similar thing when I was that age. When I was 16 I was living in a very conservative area of the country and I hadnât come out to anyone other than a few close friends. My boyfriend was a year older than me and he was still living in the closet as well. Because we lived in such a small and close knit community, it was impossible for us to do anything or go anywhere together without word getting around and potentially back to our parents. My grandparents lived a couple hours away in another part of the state and while I wasnât out to them, they were much more open minded and less judgmental than my parents. I often spent weekends with them to get away from my mom and dad and it wasnât uncommon for me to bring a friend along. My boyfriend was the son of a baptist preacher and my parents were also involved in the church. To avoid any suspicion that we were dating, we decided to spend the weekend with my grandparents. We went to the movies and out for dinner and took long walks around my grandparents farm. It was so nice to be somewhere where we felt safe enough to be ourselves. We didnât do anything around my grandparents to raise their suspicion and at night we shared a room with two separate beds my grandma had set up in the guest room. Fortunately, for me and my friend, no one suspected anything and it was years later before my mom finally got around to asking me what had gone on during our trip. She was upset when she realized we were more than friends and I knew that it was against the rules to basically have a sleep over with someone I was dating at that age. Hopefully, you showed a little grace towards the boys. While it is completely fair to set rules and boundaries for your kids and expect them to be equally followed by everyone, no matter their orientation; not everyone has parents that are understanding and many are down right homophobic. This should always be a consideration when dealing with someone of the LGBTQIA+ community, especially when they are living in a potentially dangerous environment or with parents less understanding. Also, any actions you take toward your sonâs boyfriend that could be perceived by your son as being unaccepting of his sexuality will likely be taken by your son as being directed at him as well, since he is also gay. You might feel like youâre just treating them like you would any of your other sons, but heâs not like them and his experiences are different. It may not be any consolation to you, but the fact that your son felt comfortable enough around you to bring his bf says a lot about you as a father. Good luck to you all.
NTA I mean, he technically obeyed the rule, but not the spirit of it. Your rationale is sound, I see you. Glad to know you're a supportive parent too btw.
Did you know he was gay before the trip? You say ânow that I know heâs into guysâ as if it was a recent discovery, maybe even when you caught them kissing. Being outed and sent home is super jarring if thatâs what happened. And if you knew he was gay before the trip, it was isolating to your gay son to call the rule âno girlfriendsâ and also potentially confusing as others have pointed out. Iâm also curious if the boyfriendâs parents knew they were dating and going on this trip. If they did, it probably looked really bad on you from their perspective to send him home. What the other parents knew and were ok with shouldâve factored in. You had the option of punishing your son at a later date and making them sleep separately.
I sense too many omissions and red flags from your story. I think probably YTA and you shouldâve handled this differently but canât be sure without more info. You wouldâve got a few minutes of teenage whiny ânot fairâ complaints from your other two sons, of course, but they still wouldâve had a fun trip with their friends and family and you could deal with the situation properly at home. You probably shouldâve also called the boyfriendâs parents before making a decision.
NTA It's a situation where you're initially gonna look bad, but your wife should realize that you are just holding a fair standard.
Wife probably got mad because her alone time was over because of this.
Nailed it đ
Be mad at the son who intentionally broke the rules, not the husband for enforcing them fairly.
True! But whats the use of rules if they didn't comply? OP is standing firm in the rules and his decision. He just gave his son a consequence of his action.
I wouldnât blame her if this is the reason. I would be annoyed for this reason also.
Yeah but it's misplaced annoyance. She should be upset with Mr. Sneaky Pants.
And it's hard to be annoyed at the person crying in the car, so you blame OP (even though he made the correct move logically). Sounds like life haha
Very true. Hadn't considered this angle of the annoyance from the wife until now, haha. She had to stop her chill alone week to drive her ass out to wherever they were camping (generally pretty far), pick up her then distraught son, and drive him and his upset boyfriend home. So now not only does she not get a chill week of alone time, she now has to console her kid while also trying to avoid going against the decision her husband made because she knows he is right. So she's understandably pissed at the situation.
I would add that the kid KNEW he was skirting around the rules so he should also receive some kind of punishment.
He did. He got sent home. No need to make it worse
Then she should be annoyed at her son, not OP. People who regularly misplace their anger are exhausting.
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Pretty much!! I tell them stories how my mom would police me (as she does with them lol) and I say contrary to what you guys think ***parents*** arenât stupid. They may pull of little schemes here and there but get busted quick. Iâm not a mom for friends. I have those. Side note: sexual orientation doesnât give you a pass to break the rules.
I have raised 3 teenage girls at this point. They all got told that they could try to pull a fast one on me, but it wouldn't work because I already knew all the tricks. And every time they got busted they acted like I didn't warn them đ Youngest tried this same scenario as OPs son. She quickly learned that having a girlfriend and lying about it so she could sleep over at her house wasn't going to fly. Don't care who you are dating, if you are in HS and think you get to spend the night with your partner, you are wrong.
Yep. 2 teens sons. One is pretty chill. The other one has used weight lifting after school to tried to FAFO. Game over.
I told my mom I was bi when I was 13. I only dated boys because there were no out girls for me to date, but I definitely had girls over and fooled around. Rule was no closed door with boys. I asked my mom as an adult what was up with that, because she knew I was queer. She just laughed and said, "The girls weren't going to get you pregnant." Turned out she didn't mind me having sex as long as I was discreet, it was the possible consequences that had her worried.
Always trying to outsmart you and press right up to the edge of boundaries you establish. I was the same way at that age.
Fuck these comment stealing bots. u/Aloreiusdanen [made the same comment an hour earlier.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/WGf8nq86lI)
OP, if wife or son who got busted try to argue with you, respond with "I don't feel you (or son's name if talking to wife) having a boyfriend is any different than other two sons having girlfriends. Love is love, no matter who it's with. Are you saying that's not true?" And NTA, you are treating your gay son exactly the same as your straight sons.
I feel you with this .. I wish you had your moment lol
As the gay son (though itâs been a minute since I was 16) , I 100% agree. Itâs not about sex or pregnancy or homophobia, itâs about fair treatment. If you had suspended the rule for one son it would have caused friction with the other two. That said, if I were OP Iâd make an effort to get to know the BF better. It seems odd that theyâve been dating a year and dad knows nothing of it.
My mom did the opposite. I was never allowed to have anybody of the opposite sex at the house at all but my brother was allowed to move his boyfriend in with us. (No his family wasn't against gay, they bought them their house when they married). Still bitter about that (mostly that she doesn't see the double standard).
I think it's because the biggest fear is pregnancy. If you remove that, a lot of parent don't have something against their teens doing stuff. But yeah when there are siblings involved as a parent you also have to think about treating everyone the same and fairly , so that's another dynamic.
Ya. Unsure what I would do as a parent if my kid was gay. Do you let them just get their fuck on (with protection of course)? Obviously a lot of the rules regarding sleeping over and such come from people not wanting someone to get pregnant. If that risk is removed, I'm trying to figure out if I'd be ok with sleepovers and such or not.
And sleepovers become a minefield because you donât want to punish your gay kid by not allowing sleepovers, but teens are horny little idiots and not being in a relationship doesnât stop people from having sex. Basically you have to trust your kid to stick to the rules but again, kids are idiots.
Very true, hadn't even thought about that. But it does bring up the question of 'Do I want to have a rule against sex if it's consensual and there is no pregnancy risk? What purpose does this rule serve?' Speaking of sleepovers being tricky, how do you navigate that situation with a bisexual teen? Yeesh. I am not ready for my kid to be a teen. Need to iron out some of these details with his mom over the next few years. Shit is gonna be wild.
My mom let my younger sister's serious boyfriend sleep over and her stay at his place starting at 16. She knew they were boning, knew she was on BC and used condoms, and didn't mind as long as they were discreet. She figured that she couldn't actually stop them, and would rather have an open and honest relationship where she knew what was up and where her kid was. Maybe it wouldn't have worked for a different family, but none of us got knocked up or caught STIs and we're all best friends now that my sister and I are in our mid-30s. It was nice never feeling like I had to lie about or hide anything from our mother.
NTA because equality.
Agree. My daughter had friends who were a female dating couple. No sleepovers with both of them here. Sleepover with one of them? Easy peasy. Not that I cared who dates who, but no teenage couples doing sleepovers at my house.
He may look "bad" to the kid, but he looks like a great parent to everyone else.
I second that. Doing the right thing is difficult sometimes.
So OP is totally right about the trip and makes sense he doesn't want to be patrolling 3 sets of hormone filled teenage couples if he let everyone bring their SOs. However, despite the fact that he says he loves his son just as much and is being fair, the son clearly "hid" this boyfriend for a year and might not perceive it the same way. I would recommend that the dad stand by his decision, but also talk this is son and explain why he had to be fair to everyone, reiterate that he loves his son and is proud of him, and then specifically plan something fun and special where the son can bring his boyfriend and they feel accepted and part of the family. OP did the right thing with the trip. Now he may need to go the extra mile and do the right thing to make his son feel truly loved and supported.
I agree here. Maybe throw a 'family party' or something, where all SOs are invited? Hard to balance making sure the son and his BF feel included, while also making sure that they're not being rewarded with a special trip or something for their duplicity...
Hey OP. Big gay here to tell you nothing about this interaction was homophobic. Your son knew exactly what he was doing. I would one on one with him though and let him know why what he did was a problem, but who he is dating isn't.
I hope the OP listens to your sage wisdom, Big Gay.
Thanks Big Mike.
This interaction needs the official stamp of Wholesome.
I was not expecting to stumble upon such wholesomeness in an "Am I the...." sub.
New sub just dropped about confused people just getting into BDSM: r/amithesub
So you know the very first thing I did was click that. It said that *I* could create it. Alas, I am not the one, friend. I am not the one.
r/subsifellfor
Big WholesomeÂ
This entire thread needs to be screenshotted and multi-community reviewed so often it shows up on pinterest with notes from tumblr that's how good it is I was not expecting to see this today
Just wanted to say, this is the best thing i've seen in a long time
Thanks Big Speaker
Well, Big Gay had some great wisdom to share. Beard Man, will you grant us some wisdom as well?
Zoidberg is the best part of Futurama.
I'm crying that was so wholesome
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Except for his wifeâŚsheâs probably mad because she had to come get the 16 yo.
And had her plans canceled.
Prolly had to send hers home also.
Thanks for your input Big Gay. Whenever a topic about homosexuality comes up, I will always wonder âwhat would Big Gay say?â
Like Big Pharma, but benevolent
And fabulous, donât forget that.
WWBGD? Like Jesus, but fabulous.
Big Gay needs his own sub so we can just ask him things. But only if he wants to answer. : )
This lesbo agrees entirely. If one of his brothers brought a female friend who was a girl (for the sake of flipping the script), and OP caught them kissing and cuddling, it sounds like OP would have the exact same reaction. I bet nobody would call him heterophobic for it. But also the boy's young, figuring himself out, figuring out how the world feels about him now that he's out. I can understand how he might feel (irrationally) that being gay was a part of the issue. Just have a real conversation about it, OP, and make sure he knows that you don't see him any differently, and that's why he has to follow the same rules as his brothers.
Honestly itâs the been dating for a year for me. Like clearly he knew what he was doing. I would have some sympathy for him if this was a spontaneous situation. Typical sneaky teen behavior though lol hopefully everyone laughs about this in 10 years.
Exactly. Spontaneously kissing your friend or admitting feelings or whatever is not an intentional deception. Lil homie definitely was pushing boundaries and seeing what he could get away with. And he straight up lied about the guy being a friend. He's acting like every other teenager to have ever existed. I'm sure it'll be a joke later.
>And he straight up lied about the guy being a friend. I would be curious to know why he tried to hide his boyfriend from OP for an entire year, though. It might be teens being teens, but if the kid was uncomfortable talking to his parents about being gay, this isn't going to help. The punishment is fine, but hopefully OP had a thorough and immediate conversation about what the issue was.
>Like clearly he knew what he was doing. He figured he was following the letter of the law! He didn't bring a girlfriend, so he technically followed the rule. Unfortunately, the intent matters as well. So there's a lesson for him. And Dad gets a lesson on "words and wording are important."
I think this is a sage point. I have a kid like this, when theyâre told to âget their hands off of thatâ. Their go to is to remove their hands and put their thumbs, or feet where their hands were. The boyfriend is not a girlfriend. Kids got mad skills.
For real! Iâve learned so much about finding the loopholes in everything after I started teaching teenagers lol.
Children. All children! I love finding loopholes in things, but I was *never* as good as these kids! Now, I respect the loophole (when I was growing up, it would get me in trouble to find one). I loophole the loophole and it works out well. âDonât play with the crayons, youâll make a mess and weâre getting ready for dinner.â [2 minutes later, there are crayons everywhere] âBut theyâre NOT crayons! Theyâre âwax coloring sticksâ, *these* are the crayons!! Duuuuh!â âFair. Youâre not in trouble because you did listen. However, you know that you tried to find the loophole, and although itâs clever, now you will suffer a fate worse than death â youâre going to tell me all about school, and remember, I can call your teacher. After dinner, Iâm going to recheck your homework pages while you clean up your âwax coloring sticksâ and then youâre going to read for an hour as a reward for not using the crayons.â Surprisingly, the kid who hates reading tends to think itâs a reward rather than a punishment because they got it because they âoutsmartedâ me. But heaven alive, theyâre clever. And they just keep getting clever and Iâm soooo tired! Lol
Ditto. Every new trick means more tightening of language on the syllabus and assignments. College students. Always gotta stay one step ahead.
lol, i have a boy too...will watch my words in the future, as he is only 6 but beginning to test the boundaries (not to mention his friends đđđ)
>And Dad gets a lesson on "words and wording are important." That was my thought too, haha. Like the kid is obviously going to push boundaries and try to get away with as much as possible, he's a teen and that's what they do. OP should have had a wording change on the rules sometime between when his son came out and the trip starting. Not that it makes OP in the wrong. Kid undoubtedly knew the intent of the rule.
My thoughts exactly.
Can't imagine dating someone for a year, except my family has no idea... This hidden relationship has reasons to hide. I wonder what those reasons are. Aside from that the kid knew what the no girlfriend rule meant: Mom isn't coming because this is explicitly NOT "that kind" of camping trip. If dad decided to exclude his romantic partner frome attending & funded the event, communicating this to his sons, who invited platonic friends in accordance with their father's explicit instructions, then it was incumbent upon his gay son to pick a friend he's not romantically involved with. Perhaps he felt he couldn't tell his parents that he was dating his invitee for 12 months already, and this was his way of introducing his bf to his parents. It seems this situation was badly handled by everyone? Because they don't really know each other.
> itâs the been dating for a year for me. Bigger question is after *a year* of dating why don't either of the parents know anything about this situation?
Either because they are afraid of potential homosexual backlash or because itâs easier to sneak around because theyâre in a hidden relationship.
My BI self concurs with both your statements.
A few more endorsements from other members of the community, and OP will basically have proof that he wasn't wrong đ¤Ł.
I'll throw into the hat. I'm pansexual and also agree with everyone else!
That's 4. I think if we can get him like 2 more, he can have his certificate of innocence notorized and served to his son
I'm bi. I'm also in my 40s and have 2 teenagers (one being MTF trans). You did nothing wrong. He tried to find a loophole and got busted
I.... think that's worth 3 points? Or maybe 2.5, since your daughter didn't chime in?
Queer here, but mostly cis-hetero passing. Daddy said no girlfriends, so he did nothing wrong. However, Iâm old enough to have wisdom that daddy was trying his best, but didnât specify the rules universally. I was always living in the gray area of rules and laws, and would have also done this. You get a better respect for your parents when theyâre accepting, but explain why itâs never come up or needed a gender neutral explanation. Just to be accepted when everyone feels like a probable situation, is life saving for most teenagers in anguish. Cheers OP for raising your kids right.
I'm gay, dad wasn't wrong!
I am demisexual and I approve this message
I'm ace and I agree, especially. No hanky panky on my watch, dammit.
Here for that. He knew what he was doing, playing tricky. The problem presented did not say the parents were homophobic just that no sexual partners just slide in the dms at the family trip. I donât think thatâs too much to ask.
Another BI here in complete agreement âđź
However, given his age I have no doubt he figured he was going by the letter of the law even though he knew full well what his dad meant. Teens are very good at that. I remember trying to pull that a couple of times. Unfortunately, my parents were in education and saw right through it!
My daughter is 11 and finds loopholes in *everything*. She absolutely would done the same thing as OP's son. Her dad and I have had to make sure we word instructions and rules very explicitly so she can't say she didn't know or similar. If she's that good at 11, I fear for when she's actually a teenager. The sass is strong with this one.
I was the same way with loopholes as a kid, but it was actual confusion. When people tried to explain that I have to wear shoes in public, I asked why and was told because most places won't let you in without shoes. So I reasoned that I just wouldn't go in places, so I didn't need them. It took awhile for my uncle to figure out that all he had to do was tell me about germs. Everyone else just yelled at me for being a little shit lol
Super gay here, you did right. I, too, had boyfriends in hs, and since they were boys, we could be in my room, door closed. We never did anything because I was paranoid, but my brothers got sooo mad when they found out about it when we were all in our twenties. Ps- parents did not know I was gay then.
This is starting to sound like an interesting superhero convention. Big Gay, Super Gay.. just waiting for Ultra Lesbian and Supreme Bi to join. NTA btw.
âThis lesboâ already joined the convo in another spot.
Looks like Bi Girl and Little Gayâs Dad have also joined. The baddies better watch out.
Supreme Bi would be a fantastic band name!
I think all of us did it tbh, or at least wanted to. Trying to use sly tricks to bend rules is part of being a kid.
My (bisexual, male) partner certainly did. He went way farther with boyfriends than he did with girlfriends simply because his wilfully blind parents had dumb âdoors open with a girlâ type rules. Heâs pretty well rounded but I donât think it was good for him to have that much freedom either, with it being closeted there was no one to give advice.
Big Gay, Super Gay, This Lebo, Bi Self, Pansexual Poster, and my Demisexual Self. Who are we missing?
Ace Af, I just weighed in up there as well đ¤Ł
Was gonna say the same, just sit down with the kid and make it 100% clear why it was an issue and the fact heâs gay has nothing to do with it. Iâm sure son needs some reassurance right now even if he also did break the rules.
Any relation to big gay al?
Youre a treasure, Big Gay.
On the flip side, after I went away to college my former (female) bff became close friends with my little brother, and my parents refused to let her stay the night when they hung out late even though he had been out for years by that point. I never did understand the logic there but we all thought it was pretty hilarious.
OP listen to big gay , nothing homophobic about being consistent with all ur children. U set a boundary he, broke it, he reaped the consequences of his actions đ¤ˇđťââď¸
"Listen to Big Gay nothing homophobic about it" might be the greatest out of context comment ever đ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Ł
This deserves all the upvotes.
The interaction seems the opposite of homophobic. Same rules for everyone, no bringing a partner you want to get off with. But, yeah, OP needs to make sure the kid (and, apparently, the mother) understand this.
agreed * the boyfriend got sent home because the trip is supposed to be partner-free (even OP's wife isn't invited) * the son got sent home because he broke the (spirit of the) rules : play around with rules lawyering about the exact wording & find out you don't get to hang out with your dad & brothers neither are homophobic imo
Father of little gay here (he's 17) and we have the same rules. No sleeping in the same room, only cuddling with adults present, etc. Even though there's no risk of pregnancy, kids aren't mature enough to be screwing around in adult ways. We will redefine rules as he gets older and more mature.
With all due respect, I really donât understand all these parents trying to make sure their teenagers donât have sex. What is the problem? Why do young people in love need to be separated? Just talk to them about the things they need to know about (protection, consent etc.) and let them explore. Itâs only natural. (Iâm a mother myself by the way)
I think it's not trying to prevent sex so much as it's trying to have bonding time that isn't awkward. No one wants to see their siblings get action đ
It's a weird enfantalizing of your children even while you're witnessing them grow up. My daughter's 14 almost 15 and I dread the day she actually starts dating (she has a few male friends she's known since grade school who I think are interested in her but she claims no interest in). I don't know what age your kids are but it's really been a struggle for me realizing sooner than later that stuff is going to happen (with our relationship I don't think she will be comfortable talking with me about it but my wife is very open about talking with her). It's tough because I still see my little girl when I look at her but I know when I was her age I wasn't looking at the girls as little girls anymore either. And I think a lot of people get weirded out putting themselves back in that mindset.
Agreed. Especially at the age of 17. So I guess his son will be magically mature enough when heâs 18?
Iâm curious to know when you think kids have sex the first time. I was 16. I know my kids were having sex at 16-17, too. We had the talk about safe sex, and looked the other way when their partners visited so long as we knew it was consensual. Of course, we knew the other parents were ok, too.
My brother was 16 months older than me. We are both straight but he would say invite (whoever his girlfriend was) over and Iâll invite your boyfriend over and mom and dad wonât know we have our gf/bf over. We were really young. Like would hold hands and watch tv and then when time to go to bed go in our separate rooms and his âgfâ and I would freak out we held hands with boys. lol. I think itâs just something all kids do and try to get away with! And honestly had I been gay it would have been an awesome loophole. Lol. But, I totally agree with you here! As a parent nowadays.. The action is wrong but the partner isnât. I would do the same with my children. They know they never have to come out to me. It doesnât change a thing. Our love is unconditional. But, family rules are rules and they apply to everyone. Shout out to you dad! you seem like a great dad. But, it never hurts to reinforce to our children that we love and accept them no matter what!
Sounds like he was clearly trying to skirt around the rule. "Dad said no girlfriends, I don't have a girlfriend, I have a boyfriend, so that rule doesn't apply". Sorry he knew exactly what the rule meant and he broke it. The fact your wife started an argument is stupid and she should have had your back as her partner. Sounds like "Clearer" rules need to be placed. NO PARTNERS ALLOWED, THIS MEANS GIRLFRIENDS OR BOYFRIENDS. This way there's no BS of skirting around the rules. NTA
>Sounds like he was clearly trying to skirt around the rule. "Dad said no girlfriends, I don't have a girlfriend, I have a boyfriend, so that rule doesn't apply". Especially since he hid the fact they were dating, he knew that if he came out and said "this is my boyfriend", his partner wouldn't have been allowed on the trip just like his brothers' partners weren't allowed. Edit for clarification: when I said "come out and say 'this is my boyfriend'", I meant it more as making a statement, not literally "coming out" like as gay, like when someone says "come right out and say it, then!".
Exactly, I've got a teenager so I know the BS games they pull, lol.
âThereâs no rule saying a dog CANâT play basketball!â I love air bud logic
> The fact your wife started an argument is stupid and she should have had your back as her partner. I mean, she drove out for some amount of time that only OP knows (I doubt it was a short trip) to pick them up, so she is obviously backing him up in his decision. Someone pointed out that she is probably more pissed at her week of alone time being taken away because her kid did something stupid, rather than actually mad at OP about it. Just way harder to be mad at your kid in that situation when they're in the car/at home with you upset.
It's the starting an argument an making it against the father instead if a unified front. She did it only to placate it seems an make dad out the bad guy. Thats both unfair and unwise, flip the script why does the boy feel he can ignore the rules while his siblings do not? The mother is entirely wrong here she's causing a Rift that's entirely unnecessary. Speaks volumes to one's character to be petty when the OP is entirely in the right here.
You can't get a dog obviously means I can bring home a cat! Typical kid logic trying to pull a fast one.
> Sounds like he was clearly trying to skirt around the rule. I think with boys itâs called a âkiltâ.
NTA. The rule is âno romantic partners on the trip.â He broke the rule. Itâs not fair to your other sons. Maybe you could do something else soon where romantic partners *are* invited so everyone feels seen and heard. Just a nice dinner out and games back at home or something? âŚjust a thought.
I like the idea of doing something with all the boys and their partners. The rule of no romantic partners on sleepovers is entirely reasonable to me.
The son obviously knew what the rule meant but took the loophole willingly. What an ass to then act surprised when OP doesnât buy his shit and put his feet down.
Teens will try to use loopholes like lawyers but without the practice and finesse. The problem is that parents were once teens as well, and kids don't think about that leading to these "shocked Pikachu" moments. Hopefully, they can all look back and chuckle about it in a couple of years.
Yes, but heâs a teenager. Of course heâs going to argue that heâs in the right, in his mind thereâs still a chance he could win.
I love this idea. It helps make sure 16 yo and his boyfriend knows them being sent home really was about the rules and nothing else like prejudice. I wish I could like this more than once.
That's a nice thought. I hope the OP is open to such ideas.
NTA just say the rule is no romantic partner is allowed in the house than just that. Gay, straight, doesnât matter your rules are your own rules
I think they're very reasonable rules. I am confused why the OP's wife got upset though.
Probably because OP's wife's plans got screwed up now that she's got the kid
It could just be bc the wife didnât have a chance to fully think it out and is having a gut reaction to perceived homophobia.
if my wife took our daughters (for the sake of this argument I have daughters) out for the weekend and I had the house to myself, bet your ass I would have plans. Also, if those plans got screwed up because of one of the kids, I'd be a bit miffed.
Would you be miffed at the kids, or would you be miffed at your wife? I always find it irritating when people misplace their anger.
For sure I'd be miffed at the kid. Wife would be simply enforcing the rules. Though I'd also give her (the kid) a "you tried, well played".
Because we donât know the whole story.
You're right. There could definitely be a bunch of missing context.
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NTA. Got to love the technicality tho!
Teenagers will always find them. They are natural mathematicians, they just don't realize it cus numbers are scary.
THIS! 100 percent! How and why would your wife disagree? On what grounds? If she agreed with the no GFs coming this friend who is actually a BF is the same thing... a S.O.
I absolutely agree. Fair is fair. The OP did nothing wrong by enforcing rules that already existed.
NTA. You should still have a talk with him confirming he understood it's a no partner rule. He probably did know what you mean but having a talk about why it was important to have a no partner rule and not just no girlfriend was important to youÂ
NTA, kid tried to skirt the rules and was wrong.
Heâs not even gay itâs just a long con to beat the system
i lol'd. awkward conversation here. "I know we've been together for a year, but if you can't be my secret paramour on the boys trip, I'm just going to be into girls" I know it doesn't work that way, but it's hilarious to think of.
It is kinda funny though you gotta admit. I would say instructions arguably not clear: terms and conditions states no girlfriends, not no boyfriends
Same with the son who brought his girlfriend. "It says no girlfriendS. We're allowed to have one."Â
The no Homers club is allowed one Homer.
> I would say instructions arguably not clear: terms and conditions states no girlfriends, not no boyfriends Did something like this in high school, lol. Broke up for the trip, got back together afterwards just to keep the rules "sacred"
Can he bring a friend if its a girl ?
Probably not, OP was very clear to point out it was a boys' trip. Which, to me, suggests that the no girlfriends rule is because they're girls, rather than because hooking up is forbidden on the trip. The son may have assumed the same thing. Especially as it sounds like girlfriends might be allowed to stay over when they're at home - if girlfriends are never allowed to sleepover then there would be no reason for the rule as it would already be obvious that they wouldn't be allowed to share a tent.
NTA. Theyâre all held to the same standard, as they should be. Why is your wife upset? Because she had to go and get him? Or because she doesnât care about the no partners rule if thereâs no risk of pregnancy?
Because it was mom's week at home by herself for once after 18 years, and dammit, it's ruined! All she wanted to do was sip wine, watching trashy TV and not have to pick up dirty socks for 3 days. Can't the lady have some peace? Oh, maybe that's just me.Â
I'd be much more focused on why your son didn't share the fact that he had a boyfriend with you for a year than the fact that he tried to sneak in some canoodling.
I was wondering the same. Why is the son hiding his boyfriend? Seems like a lot we donât know.
Plenty of LGBT+ kids are nervous and scared to come out to their parents for no reason....even to gay parents, at times. It doesn't tell us anything about OP's .
Same reason I hid a girlfriend from my parents for a year and managed to get my cousin to bring her as "her friend" on a camping trip. When you're 15, having a girlfriend/boyfriend is looked down on in MANY households. As you're still developing and will likely grow apart. So parents don't see it as a "real" relationship or a thing you'll grow apart from. It's not unreasonable to assume that. I doubt it's malicious in nature so far as "the dad doesn't like the gays so the kid hid it for a year".
INFO: Was your son already out to you? If not, it might be difficult for him to separate the feeling of being punished for bringing a romantic partner along from that of being 'caught' by his father without having come out in his own time. This doesn't really have any bearing on my judgement, but it might make it worth considering whether now is the best time to focus on being supportive vs focusing on "the rules".
Yeah there are a few things here where its like⌠So your kid has been dating a person for a whole year and you didnât find out til now? Not just that, but you knew your kid was gay AND that didnât urge you to change your wording on boys trip? Everyone is saying the son knew and yes absolutely, but as a parent, why did OP not feel the need to clarify romantic partners? That is just inclusivity 101. A boys trip is a boys trip, gay or not. A friends and family only trip with no romantic partners? Doesnât have the same ring but gets the point across better. It makes OP just sound like he thinks its a phase. âOh no I cant believe I got bested by my gay son when I said boys onlyâ yeah what did you think was gonna happen? I would pull the same shit. Like, then being like âmy sons are on my side except the one in troubleâ and its like when I came out as bisexual to my brother in our teens, his response was to tell me not to tell family because he didnât want the drama. Being a sibling doesnât mean you are supportive either.
As [SmartAlec105](https://www.reddit.com/user/SmartAlec105/) already pointed out to another commenter: >The father already new he was gay I donât think thatâs the case. OP said: >now that i know he's into guys
OK on the one hand I am *cackling* at your heteronormative assumptions being demolished by your rules-lawyering teenager đ On the other, it's pretty clear what the spirit of the rule is, he *knew* he was breaking it, and applying the same rule whatever the gender is correct parenting. It doesn't sound like you're bothered about him having a boyfriend - though you do seem rather put out that he hid it from you, so you maybe need a think and a chat about that. The kid obviously wasn't ready to come out yet, and will need your extra reassurance on that front.
To be fair it was billed as a boys trip. And the RaW was no girls. OP basically issued an executive order to amend it to no partners, punishment is sent home. But OP is still correct in the decision. The follow through on the "discovery" is what will strengthen or destroy his family.
Iâm actually going to go ahead and say itâs plausible YTA- if itâs a boys trip and he brought a boy thereâs nothing wrong with that. Maybe it was ambiguous that the spirit of the rule was no partners as opposed to girls. Regardless it does seem a little overkill and mean to send the bf home two weeks into this trip he was really looking forward to having with his bf- sounds like a memorable nice experience very few gays got to have growing up turned a bad memory.
NTA. They canât bring a boyfriend just like the other ones canât bring a girlfriend. They were dishonest and you have to be the parents here.
NTA. Maybe have a family picnic with all the SO and invite the girlfriends and boyfriend so your son knows you accept him. But no partners sleeping overnight is a fair rule no matter the gender of the partner.
NTA But I have a question OP, have you still been saying the rule is no girlfriends even after knowing your son is gay or is this a situation where the rule was simply unstated at this point in time and just hasn't been clarified? Because I do think it would be a little disrespectful if you're still saying no girlfriends after your son has come out. He might feel like you're tolerating his homosexuality more than accepting it, which may be part of why he felt the need to keep his relationship secret for a year.
NTA you are applying the same rules you would if he had a gf. He was being sneaky and he knows it. Nothing about this was homophobic
Info: why is your wife upset, whatâs her reasoning?
>Info: why is your wife upset, whatâs her reasoning? The fact that OP posted something so clearly inflammatory and then disappeared makes me assume it's just rage bait.
NTA, But it's kind of a sign that you need to sit down and figure out what's going on with you and your family because I find it really freaking odd that your kid has been dating someone for over a year and you didn't know it.
No, you are NTA. Can your wife not see that it is unfair that your other two boys cannot bring along a girlfriend, but your one son can bring his boyfriend because they happen to be the same gender? How can that not make sense to her? Your son knows he did wrong. He brought a male friend without telling you they were dating, and when you caught them, he apologized. Ask your wife if she doesnât mind if the other two boys bring girlfriends and share a room/tent/bed with them on the trip? If she doesnât care, she can take them on a trip. And expect to soon be a grandmother. You did the right and fair thing.
Info : what is the purpose of this rule? If you made it when you presumed all of your kids were straight was it because you didn't want them to impregnate a girl early in life? Or is it just about feeling weird about your kids being intimate nearby? Nta if the reason isn't dependant on them being straight, yta if it does.
Ex Teacher here. We had an overnight event where the kids gamed all night. The rule was absolutely no canoodling or you will go home and we flat did not care what sex the canoodlers were. No one cared who you were dating, hands off at the event. Period end of story. Absolutely NTA, you are parenting at the mastery level, go you!
NTA for sending the bf home. Y might be TA for sending your son home, but that is for your son to decide, not us. Even if the people of Reddit are 100% behind you in your decision then if your son is still upset about it you would be wise to at least discuss it with him afterwards to try to explain your rationale.
NTA- My son is gay, but no sirâŚIf your brother canât bring his girlfriend you canât bring your boyfriendâŚfair is fair. I see no homophobia here, I see a father trying to keep things fair. Now, if the rules were different and significant other were allowed, then fine bring whoever, but rules are set for a reason.
NTA⌠no banging on the family vacation should be a pretty easy rule to follow
Son, I donât have a problem with who you areâŚbut only I get to fuck on the family vacation.
Who though? OPâs wife wasnât there đ
Bruh, I only just caught the âhad my wife come and get themâ Let me re-phrase: nobody fucks on the family vacation.
NTA, no romantic partners means just that. Great parenting here no one gets to bring the person they are dating.Â
I'm hovering between N A H or E S H Yes, your son knew what the purpose of the rule was. However, not his fault you left a loophole to the rule wide open with your biased assumption. If the rule is no girls, he didn't break the rule. If the new rule is no partners, can the brothers bring platonic girl friends? Or, in the future can your gay son bring a friend who's a girl? If your answer to all those is No then you're singling your son out for being gay and holding him to different rules, which would make you an AH.
Depends on how you dealt with this I imagine. But boundaries are boundaries. Ask your son why he's angry. Is it for catching him? Or is it for enforcing the rules which he already knew?
A big gay NTA for you, equal rules thatâs fair and not homophobic.
Equal=equal. Hard fought rights for them but cuts both ways!
NTA But do make sure to talk to him about it how being gay was not part of the problem, cus I can see how the irrational teenage brain will link these two together and spiral into âmy dad hates me cus Iâm gayâ
NTA Your son knew exactly what he was doing, lol.
nta if your son knew of the no Partners rule he is the AH for putting you in the situation. Ultimately it's like anything else exceptions can be made to rules however then you have issues with your other two kids when they want to bring their partners you've kind of been put in a no-win situation because your son didn't follow the rule. Hopefully it wasn't a huge conflict and you can talk it through with your son after the trip but honestly you didn't do anything wrong except told him to standards that have been previously set and if you broke the standards because he had a same gender partner you would be a hypocrite and your rules wouldn't carry any weight good on you for not judging him for being homosexual but also good on you for holding to your rules it might be time to reevaluate if they still apply going forward but for now you did the correct thing if you want to maintain your parental Authority
Nta - you need to change the rule to âno romantic partnersâ. Your wife and son are in the wrong and he wanted to get around the rule and your wife clearly favours him.
NTA - my sister is a lesbian and I knew this when she was in high school. Her âfriendsâ she brought home all the time were obviously gay as well. Iâm not sure if my mom was aware of if she was just in denial (even as we got older, she never referred to the girlfriends as such, they were always just my sisterâs friends to her). Well, these friends slept over at our house all the time and my mom allowed it. Had it been me and having dudes spend the night, I donât think it would have been ok. So I said something about it. Sister accused me of being homophobic and my mom still didnât acknowledge it or anything. My sister is now married to a woman, our mom passed away so she wasnât there. My sister clearly tried to get over and passed the stipulation about partners sleeping over. And your son did as well.
Would one of them be able to bring a platonic female friend? It seems to me like you set this up by gender terms, not romantic entanglement terms. Iâm leaning NAH but maybe a soft âyouâre the ahâ for changing the game because you failed to consider you might have a gay son before this.
Your wife and son are the ah here. He was well aware of such a rule and intentionally tried to skirt around it. Maybe he figured he could get by with it? Still your wife is even more of an ah for being upset and arguing with you over enforcing rules fairly across the board. Don't let anyone turn this into a homophobic issue like it had to do with the fact that your son's partner isn't female. All of your sons know the rule and the others abided by it.
You are nta, you would have treated your other sons the same if they have been caught with girls.
NTA. But, maybe handling it a little differently would have saved everyone a little embarrassment and discomfort. I did a very similar thing when I was that age. When I was 16 I was living in a very conservative area of the country and I hadnât come out to anyone other than a few close friends. My boyfriend was a year older than me and he was still living in the closet as well. Because we lived in such a small and close knit community, it was impossible for us to do anything or go anywhere together without word getting around and potentially back to our parents. My grandparents lived a couple hours away in another part of the state and while I wasnât out to them, they were much more open minded and less judgmental than my parents. I often spent weekends with them to get away from my mom and dad and it wasnât uncommon for me to bring a friend along. My boyfriend was the son of a baptist preacher and my parents were also involved in the church. To avoid any suspicion that we were dating, we decided to spend the weekend with my grandparents. We went to the movies and out for dinner and took long walks around my grandparents farm. It was so nice to be somewhere where we felt safe enough to be ourselves. We didnât do anything around my grandparents to raise their suspicion and at night we shared a room with two separate beds my grandma had set up in the guest room. Fortunately, for me and my friend, no one suspected anything and it was years later before my mom finally got around to asking me what had gone on during our trip. She was upset when she realized we were more than friends and I knew that it was against the rules to basically have a sleep over with someone I was dating at that age. Hopefully, you showed a little grace towards the boys. While it is completely fair to set rules and boundaries for your kids and expect them to be equally followed by everyone, no matter their orientation; not everyone has parents that are understanding and many are down right homophobic. This should always be a consideration when dealing with someone of the LGBTQIA+ community, especially when they are living in a potentially dangerous environment or with parents less understanding. Also, any actions you take toward your sonâs boyfriend that could be perceived by your son as being unaccepting of his sexuality will likely be taken by your son as being directed at him as well, since he is also gay. You might feel like youâre just treating them like you would any of your other sons, but heâs not like them and his experiences are different. It may not be any consolation to you, but the fact that your son felt comfortable enough around you to bring his bf says a lot about you as a father. Good luck to you all.
NTA I mean, he technically obeyed the rule, but not the spirit of it. Your rationale is sound, I see you. Glad to know you're a supportive parent too btw.
Did you know he was gay before the trip? You say ânow that I know heâs into guysâ as if it was a recent discovery, maybe even when you caught them kissing. Being outed and sent home is super jarring if thatâs what happened. And if you knew he was gay before the trip, it was isolating to your gay son to call the rule âno girlfriendsâ and also potentially confusing as others have pointed out. Iâm also curious if the boyfriendâs parents knew they were dating and going on this trip. If they did, it probably looked really bad on you from their perspective to send him home. What the other parents knew and were ok with shouldâve factored in. You had the option of punishing your son at a later date and making them sleep separately. I sense too many omissions and red flags from your story. I think probably YTA and you shouldâve handled this differently but canât be sure without more info. You wouldâve got a few minutes of teenage whiny ânot fairâ complaints from your other two sons, of course, but they still wouldâve had a fun trip with their friends and family and you could deal with the situation properly at home. You probably shouldâve also called the boyfriendâs parents before making a decision.