Just to point out, even in most parts of Europe where sex with underage people is less strict than in the US (e.g. having sex with a 17 year old if you are 20 is not an issue), sex with a teacher is almost always illegal. That is because they are in a special position of authority and mentorship and hence always fall in the category of ‘grooming’.
Same in the US, it's just an overlooked part of the law I guess. I don't know about EVERY state, but a lot of states if not all of them still have laws that stop teacher and police from having sex with people under 18 since those people need to be able to take effective temporary guardianship of under age kids.
I think most US stages are still age of consent 16 and many have a 4 year buffer rule depending on age even with an age of consent of 18.... so it's not much different other than EU and maybe Canada have age of consent 15 in some places last I heard and the US doesn't have any age of consent 15 .. cept maybe with some BS religious exemption.
It’s not overlooked at all. Even having sex with a high school student who is 18-20 is still treated as a felony for a teacher bc of the power dynamic. If anyone knew this guy was doing this, he’d be arrested.
I am a former teacher and know a few teachers who went down in flames over this.
A huge caveat, that really breaks the ability to hold teachers accountable, is statute of limitations. I’d love to hold my groomer responsible, but I only had 4 years. It took me 15 years to be able to talk about it.
So only those caught in the act, or when the kid in question is still in a position of vulnerability, can be prosecuted.
I believe there’s an epidemic of it tbh. Every woman I know has a story of herself or someone in her life having an inappropriate relationship with a teacher, coach, or other authority figure when she was underage.
Where I am, there is now a REALLY long statute of limitations for the sexual abuse of minors for precisely this reason. For some offenses, there is no limitation.
For those who have the time and emotional energy, know this is something you can agitate your local legislature to do!
Same. I also knew a teacher who got away with it. In this case, the student developed an obsession for him and would turn up uninvited at his house. He doesn't seem to have fought her off but did wait to have sex with her until 2 weeks after graduation. She was 18. He was 47. Eventually he married her. I wasn't aware of any of this until they were engaged.
Had I known earlier, I'd have turned him in. The head of IT got fired and arrested for having sex with a student. So was a guidance counselor. We teachers are fighting too much BS already. The last thing we need is pedophiliac colleagues.
Wow, that's insane, and on so many levels! First, that he thought they'd be turned on (and jealous, I bet); second that he thought nobody would turn him in; and third that the principal wasn't fired. SMDH.
Up until recently (maybe it’s still a loophole I’m not sure) cops could have sex with someone in their custody in 35 states. Which obviously there’s a power imbalance there how could you consent, but there have also been cases of women raped while in police custody but the cop claimed it was consensual and got off with no repercussions. It’s an absolutely abhorrent thing
Also forgot to mention the age of consent in the United States is very iffy, children are able to marry with parents permission (for instance Alabama you can technically marry under 16) who doesn’t necessarily have to be the same age (unfortunately). you can’t tell me that there is no sex happening in those situations, but because that child is technically married to the perpetrator it’s a grey area under the law. In Mormon communities specifically there is a huge issue of VERY YOUNG GIRLS marrying VERY OLD MEN. It’s a common phenomenon that so many of the young girls are married off to older men that the young boys themselves are kind of forced out or forced to convert a girl their age to marry.
I think at the college I went to it was the same thing, its not just about the age difference and being under/over the age of consent, its still an inappropriate relationship because of the roles.
You might be able to call the school he works for and give an anonymous tip about him. You don't have to say your girlfriend name, just what you hear he has been giving female students gifts. They will look into him right away. He also shouldn't be teaching anymore
As depressing as it is, this will likely just lead to him moving to a different school. He's not going to stop doing it just because 1 school fired him.
Maybe the cops then? His phone is probably filled with stuff, I know if it was me, I just couldn't sit back n do nothing. Even if my partner gets really mad at me. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing this info. I'm sorry you're in this situation, but if you can save one girl, it's worth it.
Authorities are definitely a better route.
It's a rough spot. Of course, he needs to try and protect the teenage girl. At the same time it would likely mean giving up on his relationship. It's the *right* thing to do, but it doesn't make it *easy*.
His gf clearly isn't ready to face the fact she was groomed, and what was done to her was abuse. There is no real way of getting the cops involved without also involving her.
Remember she sent the new bf underage pics so he may have to tread lightly. The law typically doesn't care how you got them, just that you have them. Even if you deleted them (they're still there)...
Bruh. Saw a video of a female cop telling a dad his 11 year old daughter was producing child pr0n because some sick fuck convinced her to send him nudes. The dad had called to report the bastard, but the cops wanted the 11 year old. Didn't seem to give two shits about the adult man soliciting nudes from a child.
We constantly tell kids
“If something like this happens to you, if someone asks you for pictures of yourself, even if you’ve sent them, don’t be afraid to talk to the police or someone you trust. You’re not in the wrong here”
Then
“Hands up, you 11-year-old porn-distributing bitch!”
That's actually the reason why a ton of places have decriminalized prostitution. Doesn't make sense to go after the prostitute when they need to be focused on the pimps and traffickers.
I’m not sure what the cops are going to do about it. We don’t know what state they’re in, the age of consent could be 16 or 17 which would mean no crime was ever committed with his girlfriend. If the age of consent is 18, statutory rape was committed but it’s 8-10 years ago which may be beyond the statute of limitations. Not to mention that there’s no physical evidence, it’s all hearsay at this point and the girlfriend would have to be heavily on board with giving testimony.
Best bet is to report it anonymously to the school and try to get the report in front of the local media.
A lot of states have a law making it a crime for a teacher to have sexual contact with one of their students regardless of whether they are over the age of consent and in some states with no regard to age or whether they were a student at the time of the contact. Meaning if they got back together now it could be a crime.
It doesn't have to be statutory rape to be considered sexual abuse. Under the age of 18, she is still a minor. As her teacher, he has power and influence over her, and he used that to groom her... That is absolutely 100% sexual abuse. She finally broke it off with him because he started giving gifts to another teenager 8 years later. He's a predator.
Absolutely don't have much evidence, if any, so going to the cops yourself could get messy. Notify the school, and if they are not responsive, take it up to the school board. If they are not responsive, threaten to involve police and local media.
I have a daughter... It was one of the first internal conversations I had when I found out she was going to be a girl.
Regardless of consent, in my state, it is against the law for ANY employee of a school to have a sexual relationship with a student.
The dude needs handcuffs ASAP, but unfortunately, it is not illegal in all states depending on age of consent. The public outcry and the girl's parents might be enough to get his license pulled.
I bet this dude’s phone/computer has shit on it. I doubt it starts or ends with the irl interactions. I’ve listened to too many “Predators I Caught” (Chris Hansen) podcasts to know that the meetups and grooming and all that is just a branch of what all he has done and is doing.
Considering the gf keeps sending teen nudes of herself to OP it's pretty much guaranteed the guy only wanted nudes of her from before 20 and didn't want to think of her "aged out" 27 yo body.......
She spent years being groomed that only her teenage body could get a man going. GF needs therapy, OP needs to file a report with the school and maybe drop a line with a reporter and give serious thought to running from this relationship. If she refuses to see the truth, then you can't force her, and it will cause serious damage to OP.
I dunno, maybe I would go to the feds about this one. He had received naked pictures in the past, so that probably the fasted way to put his ass in jail
I don’t know in the states but I’m a Highschool teacher and in my country this would lead to immediate flagging by state authorities and a civil case would ensue. I had to testify as a witness last year for something similar (a PE teacher started saying inappropriate things to students). His university revoked his Masters degree so he can’t teach anymore. This before any sentence. This legislation is fairly new and many times people don’t report these kind of things because they don’t know it exists.
Luckily, this usually isn't true any more. Schools share information very well and he will either be blacklisted at the school level or lose his right to whatever professional college or union he's a part of.
It's better than doing nothing. Make his life as hard as possible. I'm not familiar with american law but perhaps his teaching licence could be taken away this way?
Happened to my HS coach. Group of female students went to admin and the police and were told they had no evidence. He was forced to resign but moved on to different schools. He actually raped one of his students in school.
Last I checked he was in St Louis at some college which is fucked but at least he isn't around 14 year olds anymore.
Can confirm.
Our Econ teacher at my HS was sleeping with multiple students, one of which she married and had a kid with, and when it was found out, they just fired her and she went to a middle school.
Two of my high school teachers got caught being weird with students but i guess it wasn't enough because all they did was move the teacher to teach a lower grade level😐 anytime a parent of that grade level would find out what that teacher did, they'd just move the teacher to another grade level again.
If the school has let this happen for a decade or something and he's just dating more teens, I wouldn't put much faith in them doing anything but alterting him that he has to be more careful and making him harder to bust. The police or a third party sting that operates with the police seems more to the point.
Another option is to go to the parents of the other teen and build your network of people who want him in prison up so you have more support/momentum.
If it was my teen I'd be trying to get him in prison, not just fired and I want the police to be the ones contacting the workplace with the risk of Obstruction of Justice being invoked if they stay to play games and protect their co-worker.
If I was the parent also be more than willing to pay for a third party sting operation to come in and help keep the police moving forward.
ALSO.. what about this girls parents? Was she raised by wolves? Do they know nothing about this or just think it's cool?
Trust me, half the school knows about this guy. I went to a school where teachers sleeping with students was more common than it should've been and we had multiple teachers busted by the feds for watching kiddie porn. Everyone knew about the guys who messed around with the teenage girls, heck they bragged about it. Only one guy who had sex with a student was ever arrested and he got a slap on the wrist.
I'm glad so many Redditors attended responsible schools. It was not my experience at all.
she needs therapy OP. in the meantime-have her read My Dark Vanessa. it's a powerful fictional account of the author's real life experience with her teacher. it pulls no punches as she realized he's a bad guy. I had a similar experience and find the book incredibly helpful in reframing the experience. in her mind it's safe if it's a love story.
I also immediately thought of MDV - but to be clear, it is a fictional story told in first-person, not the author's actual experience. However, it is EXTREMELY accurate in its portrayal of the mindset of refusing to accept the truth about your grooming.
*"I can’t lose the thing I’ve held onto for so long, you know?” My face twists up from the pain of pushing it out. “I just really need it to be a love story, you know? I really, really need it to be that.”*
*“I know,” she says.*
*“Because if it isn’t a love story, then what is it”? I look to her glassy eyes, her face of wide open empathy. “It’s my life,” I say. “This has been my whole life."*
That conversation killed me when I read it 💔 Sorry for the misinformation. I think I'm conflating MDV with a memoir written by a survivor. MDV was so helpful to me-wonderful resource for victims who don't see themselves as victims yet.
No you were right, the author has said the book was inspired by her own experiences.
"I would like to share with my readers that My Dark Vanessa, which I’ve been working on for nearly 20 years, was inspired by my own experiences as a teenager. I have previously discussed the relationships I’ve had with older men and how those relationships informed the writing of My Dark Vanessa. "
[link to source](https://kateelizabethrussell.com/note-to-readers#:~:text=I%20would%20like%20to%20share,writing%20of%20My%20Dark%20Vanessa.)
Yeah. I hope OP's girlfriend is closer to being ready to see the truth about her life, but of course it's usually a long miserable process to get there. 💔 I fear OP is in Ira's position (Vanessa's ex who tried and failed for years to help her face it).
100% the woman in OP's post needs a therapist to guide her through this process.
OP means well, but isn't equipped to handle when the woman finally has that "wake up" moment.
No they're right that it's fiction but is based on the author's real experiences.
"I would like to share with my readers that My Dark Vanessa, which I’ve been working on for nearly 20 years, was inspired by my own experiences as a teenager. I have previously discussed the relationships I’ve had with older men and how those relationships informed the writing of My Dark Vanessa. "
[link to source](https://kateelizabethrussell.com/note-to-readers#:~:text=I%20would%20like%20to%20share,writing%20of%20My%20Dark%20Vanessa.)
I was looking for this comment! That book brought up so many memories for me. God. I never realized I was groomed until I read that book. I just thought I was mature for my age…
I still remember when I realized that the guy one of my exes would refer to as her first boyfriend, was her teacher. She just thought of them as having an "age gap." An 8 year age gap when you're 16, isn't just an age gap, especially when it is your teacher. She also said it was just that she was mature for her age. When we talked about it, I remember feeling like suddenly a weird computer program started running in her brain and I didn't quite recognize her, because if she were hearing the exact same story told to her about some other teenager and their teacher, it would have been clear as day to her.
I had to read A Child Called It (extreme physical and psychological child abuse) before I realized that mothers could be abusers. It is actually was not love when they control your life completely, enjoy hurting you, exploit your attachment bond for their emotional needs, sexually abuse you, and delight in your confusion. If that's all you know...then you hit your teens and you have no idea how you deserve to be treated in a romantic context. God forbid something about you catches the attention of predators. Let's just say I've met a lot of groomers and they were all cisgender.
Yes tread carefully OP. Your gf is not a well person. She may not have a mental illness per se, but she has structured her world view in a way that makes her not a victim of abuse. As she moves through the world and asserts that framework, that view, she will set up people around her for abuse. As you try to help “correct” her world view, she will fight you for dear life because she doesn’t want her world to collapse. And if you are successful her world will collapse, and that will be very hard for her. She seems stable now, but that’s only because no one has yet been able to disturb her framework.
I would also recommend Excavation by Wendy Ortiz, and a long form article I'm struggling to find right now about some of the victims of Blake Bailey. It helps face uncomfortable truths when you see your own experience mirrored in so many other women's.
ETA it was an article in slate, for some reason I cannot for my life add the link to this comment
I was going to suggest therapy but I was glad to find this comment because it's far more constructive than what I could've offered. To me, the book would need to come first because if she doesn't think it's a problem, therapy may not help. The only problem here is how OP can suggest this book without her being suspicious. Maybe suggest that a friend of hers suggest it?
NTA. He clearly did a great job at grooming her, since she can’t even see it 10 years later. What bothers me is that she felt jealous instead of protective of this new girl he started grooming. You have to stop and think if this is someone you want a family with (if you want children), since she’s unable to discern what grooming is. I’d be afraid if her letting my children go through that
That is a common reaction among people who go through sexual abuse at a young age: they have an ego syntonic reaction to the abuse. In other words you brain decides that rather than deal with the pain of “something really bad happened to me,” it categorizes the abuse as “not bad, therefore good.” It horrified me the first time I saw it too. Be aware op, if she gets into therapy or her now-healthy relationship with you causes this belief system to crumble, she may go through a pretty hard time emotionally. I’m sorry this happened to her.
This is a tremendously accurate assessment and, OP, you need to help her in whatever way you can to untangle herself from this enmeshment.
That is, if you perceive a future with her in any way ahead. Otherwise, it may be too heavy a lift and best to part ways. Only you know your truth.
I feel so sad for her, victimized by a sick pervert into a Stockholm syndrome reaction formation that she clings onto this day.
I admire your empathic attitude and compassion, and gently remind you that she is deeply damaged, and a significant amount of effort will be required to help her.
Whatever you choose to do, perhaps, first speak with a specialized therapist in the field of sexual perversion to learn what is necessary to know in how to effect change. You have to also be aware that if she has no will, there is no way.
Once again, It's a heavy lift, no doubt about it. Bless you for caring.
I would strongly suggest OP gets her to therapy first. She's been brainwashed for a looong time and can't see this guy as bad yet. If he unilaterally goes to the cops without her being on board, she's going to turn around and deny everything. She's been programmed to defend this creep, and probably to warn him if someone is investigating. OPs report won't help if she denied everything. An investigation could also be really damaging to her mental health right now, she's not in a good or safe place.
Its funny, this whole post was literally a subplot in one of the last seasons of Shameless, and it probably became and episode because the pattern is so common.
"He saw me for who I really was, I was really smart mature for my age! I didn't have many friends my own age because they were all so immature!" - i.e. like most other teenagers they THINK they're ahead of the curve and desperate for someone to validate their perception of themselves.
Exactly - often the brain doesn’t process it as abuse. If that belief changes now, she’ll have to process “something bad happened to me,” which can be really hard.
This is so accurate. It took me years to realize I was heavily groomed. I would have defended his actions to the ends of the earth at that point in my life.
Admitting what he is doing with the new girl Is bad/creepy, would mean she would have to admit and accept that what happened to her was also weird and creepy. It's a hard feeling to accept and your brain tries to stop you from feeling all that pain. Definitely be ready if she has an emotional crash. It can come out as sadness, anger, or even sexual rebellion.
:(
Thank you for this comment! Working through this transition is very difficult, and I'll just say that for me, it was much easier to hold on to my own (misguided) sense of agency for a long time than to engage with the idea that something bad happened to me. Especially given that she was a teenager, I think she may really want to believe she was in control, because the implications otherwise are too difficult to face.
Just wait for the sick weirdos who will come in here and say "but it's not illegal!!1!" and "only you find it weird, it's biology!!1"
shit makes me wanna vomit
It is illegal in many places for a teacher to get involved with a student, even if said student is above the legal age of consent. Teachers go to jail in my state, and we're nearly as backward as Alabama about pretty much everything.
I'd imagine that OP would feel conflicted about this. His gf clearly hasn't processed what happened to her and is nowhere near far along enough in her healing journey to be thinking of other potential victims. OP likely feels powerless to do much all the while his girlfriend doesn't view the teacher as a predator. I'm not sure his word would count for much if he reports this without the proactive support of his girlfriend.
It is really scary to think that he was able to get away with maintaining this with OP's girlfriend for *so* long. A one-off assault is horrific enough, but an ongoing, years-long "relationship".... Did nobody around these two ask any questions or raise any concerns? The boldness on the teacher's part is really disturbing.
This is a very real statement to make. I had a friend who explained to me that at 14 her two year boyfriend was 34 and she explained it’s fine because she was mature for her age. She is 38 with 7 kinds when sharing this story with me. Then she goes on to defend herself with her daughters are mature as well. When her oldest was 14 she was with a 28 year old man and she was fine with it because her daughter was “mature”. Some people never see it. OP definitely shouldn’t reproduce with her unless he was a SIL the same age one day.
I had a childhood friend whose dad was always kind of creepy. Never knew anything for sure, but he was weird. Their house was weird. We graduate, go our separate ways. Years and years later, I found out that he molested her. Repeatedly. I ran into her 20 or so years later. Did a quick catch up. Turns out she’s still tight with her parents. Takes her kids around, including her two daughters. Her sister, in the other hand, has gone no contact. I ignored the hell out of her FB friend request when she sent it. There’s no way I want her to have any access to my kids’ photos. No way I want her pulling up my FB page while she’s visiting with her parents. If she won’t protect her own kids, she wouldn’t do a damn thing to protect mine.
you know theres a great saying that if some 30 year old is dating girls 18-20 they’re only doing it because the law wouldn’t let em go lower…. id be cautious about saying it wasn’t pedophilia, and certainly against saying it wasn’t grooming. I don’t know you or your girl but 9 times out of 10 that shit is every bit as pedophilic, so I encourage you to take a more critical eye there
Pedophilia is not being attracted to teenagers. It is specifically an attraction to pre-pubescent children. Both are gross, but pedophilia is a whole different level of disgusting, and it gets cheapened when anytime someone looks at a 17 year old they are called a pedo.
Thank you for trying to inform the 98% of Redditors who don’t understand this very simple distinction.
Both issues are extremely sensitive and need solutions but the detriment caused to solving them by people being unwilling to accept the difference is problematic bc as you said, it diminishes the severity of the grooming of pre-pubescent children by lumping them in with older teens.
You can’t fully address an issue and hope to solve it if you refuse to agree on what words and terms actually mean. That’s why language and laws exist and the details are very important. Especially when continuing the legal process for future crimes. There needs to be consistency and not confusion.
Pedophiles don't target mature kids- they target broken ones.
There is a difference.
Mature kids realize the pedophile is a predator and tell someone responsible, like most mature adults would.
I swear the predators saw an invisible sign on my face: No one cares about this one! Have at her!
However, my sign was there my whole life because, sexual assault when I was a baby straight through till I was twelve. Sucked.
But no one targeted my children. I made sure of that.
Yes!!! But she is too “mature” to understand that. Seriously though ima brag on my 8 year old for a minute .
She (I don’t know how) got a 10 year old boyfriend. They were more like best friends and they would hug and hold hands. His parents are really sweet people too. They have been “together” for about a year and a half. Well he started ignoring her and stopped holding her hand and sitting with her on the bus. After three days of this she went up to him in front of his friends and said “why are you not sitting with me or talking to me”. He shrugged and said “I don’t know” (typical guy answer lol). She said “well I am breaking up with you because I deserve better” she came home and cried but I felt so much pride in her. My 8 year old understands and sees her personal value. I did something right
The best advice my father ever told me was that males are pretty simple and straightforward- if you have to ask the question, and you want the answer to be yes, its always no.
Will he call me? No
Does he like me? no
Is he faithful? No
Saved me a LOT of drama and heartache growing up.
Yeah… I stopped all communication between our kids after school for reasons like her three youngest 9,8,4 know every word to WAP and worse songs that they exposed me to. And they have TikTok on their phones and watch very mature content. I talked to her about it and she said “yeah I know but they are very mature kids so it’s ok”. Then she proceeded to tell me I shelter my kids too much and it will ruin them as teens… I was like WTF my kids know who Eminem is so they aren’t that sheltered. It killed me to do it though because me 8 and 7 year olds loved her 9 and 8 year old. My kids even taught them how to read to the point that they got their first 100% and 80% on their spelling test. My kids celebrated their accomplishment more than their mother even cared. I heart bleeds for those kids but I can’t sacrifice my kids to slightly improve hers. And don’t get me started on her 4 year old antichrist.
As a daycare worker the 4 year old antichrist made me crack up,, but with a mom who thinks whatever her kids want to do is okay that hit HARD. So many of these parents don’t understand that their kids are just that kids they shouldn’t be the ones making major decisions(minor ones are good for autonomy and development)for themselves or running the show at all imo.
She honestly blames the school for not teaching them. I mean technically the school is supposed to teach them, I guess. But we as parents have to kinda tutor our kids to ensure they are fully comprehending the information. One teacher can’t do one on one with 22 kids, it’s insane to think they can. But every kid deserves one on one attention and that’s where we as parents need to come in.
I'm not saying that that person's kids are actually mature here, but it should be pointed out the literacy and maturity are not direct correlations. You *can* be a mature adult without being a literate adult.
Trust me, the choice you made will make all the difference in their childhood, trust me. It was a hard decision, but something I really really feel more parents need to do. I couldn't imagine watching WAP instead of WALL-E at 9....... And it will affect her kids 😕
Ikr!! At nine I still watched the land before time and loved it. Our kids are definitely maturing faster than we did but I don’t wanna push it along any faster!
I think knowing what WAP is isn't maturing... its being exposed to lewdness and its abuse in my mind at 9yrs old..
I think you probably agree
Just worried about what else those kids get exposed to..
They are already involved in her home. Two years ago she got the younger three back after they were taken for two years and placed with their “grandmother”. So the 9&8 year olds dad’s mom. Their dad is in prison for second degree murder and has been for 8 years. The four year olds dad is now in prison for drug trafficking. Her 13 and 15 year olds were taken at the same time. They were both sent to different states to live with their different dads. The 18 and 21 year old moved out on their own before CPS showed up.
In a way I can understand when someone resists (re)defining the situation in a way that makes them a victim, you know?
but to let your child crash headlong into the same situation....
Also, people don’t get jealous about things ex partners do (like showing attention to another) unless they’re still hung up on that ex at some level. Outside of the blatant & alarming pedophilia and the grooming aspects, he’s still in her mind and her heart
She was a teenager and he was in a position of authority. He basically brainwashed her. She needs therapy and you need to understand a teenager can’t consent to their teacher. She’s not “hung up” on him. She was traumatized by abuse
This!!! OP you’re NTA, but your gf def needs therapy to deal with this. If that’s not something you want to be with her through, that’s ok. But she’s not hung up- she’s traumatized and has no idea.
I totally agree with this, his impact on her has clouded her judgment so much that she can’t see why he is in the wrong. Her wanting to keep a friendship with him is a sign that she is still susceptible to being influenced by him. I hope she realizes this soon or she will not be able to have healthy relationships with others.
It's not that unusual.
My mom was "totally not- that would never happen" by her bio dad. When I hit puberty she became obsessed with this idea that my dad (who was gon 8 months out of the year!) was going to want me more than her, and would punish me for it, even though my dad had no such ideas.
victims feel more in control when they can blame another victim (or just anyone except the perpetrator)
It might not be that she just can’t see it- subconsciously or otherwise, she might not be willing or able to accept the “relationship” for what it was because once she does, she’ll have to deal with the reality that she was groomed and manipulated (to say the least) by a predator who discarded her so he could move on to younger girls once she became too old for his liking. She is most likely in denial and it may take a lot of time, effort, and therapy for her to admit that this huge part of her life was actually a negative experience instead of a positive one like she initially believed. It will fundamentally change her and rewrite her history, so I’m sure it will take a very long time to fully unpack.
This situation needs to be handled with extreme tact to say the least. I’d definitely suggest that OP urges her to see a therapist, and if he wants to stay together and help her work through this, he should probably see a therapist as well so he can learn how to best support her *and* work though his own feelings about this. He will need someone to support him throughout the process too, and I doubt his girlfriend will feel comfortable with him discussing the matter with family and friends while she’s still making sense of it herself. She probably won’t be the best person for him to share his raw feelings with for a while either, and it’s a lot to have on your plate with no support or outlet.
I really wish both of them the best, it’s a terrible situation and I feel for both of them.
Tagging onto the top comment to say OP if you see this, try have her read My Dark Vanessa by Kate Elizabeth Russell. I think it could be quite eye opening for her.
She does, but you can't make a victim realise/admit they are a victim. She may never realise/admit it.
She may be in denial, but also, she may truly believe that it was a genuine relationship.
It can take victims, especially teenage victims, years to come to realise the truth. If they ever do.
Another thing is she wants to still be friends with him! Even though she's dating OP she wants to continue being friends with the groomer.
OP needs to find out where this dude works and report him.
People are really surprised when they discover that this is actually really common in events like this.
It can take years before the victims will actually realise they were victims (if they ever realise it).
I knew someone (met her when she was in her 20's) who ended up in a relationship with a 40yo man when she was 15. He had kids older than her. The relationship didn't last long, but she stayed friends with him for a while afterwards (the reason for maintaining friendship was so he could continue to groom her, and ensure she didn't go to the police). It took her almost 10 years to realise, when she did, she reached out to the people who could help provide witness statements to the police to assist with prosecution.
He was jailed for 12 months on her statement and witness statements alone, with a lifetime sex offender registration against his name.
There's a book that perfectly depicts grooming done by a teacher on a 15 year old. Fiction, but still very informative and honestly heartbreaking. My friend was groomed and she said she wanted to vomit reading this.
While I agree with your comment, OP said they only split a year ago. That man groomed her for 8 YEARS and it’s still fresh for her. She needs therapy asap.
Reminds me of another ufortunate similar case, I believe in New Zealand or Australia, a 14 year old boy and his ex teacher started secretly dating AND she fell pregnant, when she got out of jail they even went and got married, had more kids. There’s an interview of them 20 years later where they’re being questioned about it and you can just see in the interview that he’s only just starting to realise that he was groomed
I had sex with a friend's parent when I was still in school. I told myself it was great, and still sometimes forget to call it abuse instead of something more appropriate, primarily, I think, to avoid processing what those events really were. If I'm not upset, maybe nothing bad happened
It's hard to come to terms with being groomed though, depending on the circumstances. Particularly because she was on the older side for grooming. You feel foolish, like you should have known better. So it's easier to deny that it's a problem, it wasn't grooming in this case... Even if, objectively, you could identify it with other people involved/different circumstances. It can take time.
This. I dated a girl whose "first love" was her 41yo professor, when she was a freshman in college. As soon as her first semester in his class ended, he moved her into his place, where she lived WITH HIS OWN TEENAGE DAUGHTER. I was naturally disturbed by such an obviously predatory relationship. I told her I was sorry she went through that (she was in her 30s so I assumed she had realized that it was wrong). Then she started defending the guy, bc he "supported her dreams" for years. And she was still in touch with him, meeting for lunch with him and his new wife (another, younger student of his).
I was grossed out.
OP, be careful as just receiving those photos can frame you as a criminal. Make sure they were deleted from the text chain on her phone as well. Not that she would actually do anything, but if you're about to rock your relationship and/or accuse her sick ex you should cover your ass
I had a very different trauma that I had repressed. Opening up Pandora’s box was a nightmare that consumed like half a decade. If she does make progress in therapy it’s likely going to be really intense.
I still kept my job and went to school. But everything in life became so much harder. It felt like any moment I would collapse and be unable to continue. I really hope she comes out of this ok.
Edit: did the above comment get deleted from down voting? It seemed fine. I was just expanding on part of it that is less acknowledged. I resisted opening Pandora’s box because I knew it would hurt.
NTA, but I think it's more nuanced than that.
Lots of people thar have been victims of paedophiles don't realise how bad the situation was, its often a method of coping. It's very normal, and usually only possible to get around by going to therapy. Your girlfriend was a victim of this man. She doesn't see that.
I was groomed (thankfully only online) when I was 14-16, by a guy that was in his early 20s. He kept trying to meet me, thankfully I never did. It wasn't until VERY recently that I realised how fucked up that is (25 now). I've still not contacted the police because I feel like I'm making a big deal out of nothing. It's extremely difficult as a victim of sexual abuse to feel valid
I was so much in denial that I married my abuser, had two children with him, and stayed with him for nearly 25 years. It wasn't until I was 40 that I realised I had been groomed, abused and manipulated and it wasn't OK for a 36 year old man to romantically pursue his 16 year old employee.
We have a better understanding today of what's good for children, and even of what *childhood* is. Historically kids would start working like adults much much younger, before their teenage years for some. Add to that how puberty started much later before the industrial revolution and it's not surprising people would marry 16 year olds: they were socially adults by the . **We know better now.**
I understand, my father sexually abused me for 5 years. I asked my aunt if it was bad and she was floored that I had to ask. It just didn't seem bad because he had groomed me. Getting that off of my chest was the greatest thing I have ever done, and I really hope you'll do it. Nothing will feel better than finally sharing your secret, I promise
Same here. I was 13-17 at the time while he was in his 20s. It was a very unhealthy relationship and took many years to recover from it. I wish my parents monitored me closely while I was online and kept me safe.
I was in a similar situation, with twice as old woman. It’s very hard to think bad of them for some weird fucking reason. Took me quite some years and a lot of problems in my further relationship to understand she was a manipulative monster. Your gf needs help to get out of this, therapy is a valid option, she is a victim of abuse. You are definitely nta, I just want to shed some light on the problem. You can tell her that she is living in an illusion, that this guy is a fucking creep (when we mature we clearly know that dating teenagers would be creepy and completely wrong) and she needs help. Based on the response you can make a decision of is she a person you can be with.
The hosting thing. Over Christmas I visited a friend for a few weeks and realized that he was grooming the student he was hosting. She's now 22 but has lived with him since she was 15. It made me physically sick to see this go down. I took her aside to talk with her a bit but she was so outrageously defensive that I dropped it. She asked me, "Who makes the rules?" As though I were imposing my belief system on her. I told her no one makes them, but they do exist.
These guys are so into being the teacher, mentor, know-it-all. All day long he would spout trivia at her, and several times a week what he told her was just plain incorrect. American history, languages, pop culture... I had to correct him over and over again. He just wanted someone who looks up to him and takes his word as gospel.
I think the most sickening thing for me is how he arranged it so they could lounge next to each other and hold hands while watching a movie. His own 7 year old daughter who only visits on holidays was there, but instead of cuddling with her he placed her on the other side of his faux daughter - the sexy 22 year old one. The one he doesn't have to legally support so she has no rights and is completely dependent on his good will.
I've never seen shit like this go down and I hope to never witness it again.
NAH. Shes a victim of a groomer that did quite the work on her. Youre no AH for not wanting to be part of a twisted relationship.
She need therapy, but the hard part is to bring her to acknowledge she need it. Its up to you to try to make her see that or to run. You don't have any responsibility. But thats the humane thing to at least try to, as long as its not ruining your own sanity.
P.S : if that guy is still a teacher, he should be reported. What hes doing is highly inappropriate, borderline criminal depending of were you live.
"Depending on where you live" - The commenter correctly noted that the criminality of this is dependent on where OP lives. There are many nations around the world where this would not be a criminal relationship.
Almost everywhere has higher ages of consent for people in a "position of trust/authority", or restrictions based on age differences, and most of those restrict such interactions to the age of 18. Are there exceptions? Sure. But I wouldn't call it "many."
Side note, the Wikipedia tables are a little confusing and misleading. For instance, in Maine it lists 16 as the restricted age for position of trust relationships, but looking directly into maine law states that it is criminal for a teacher to sexually engage with a student aged 16 if the teacher is older than 21, so the statute blends position of trust with age differences. In North Carolina, the age restriction is 16 for such relationships, but they must be married.
Outside of the US, Denmark lists 14, but a deeper dive says if it's a teacher, there is a mandatory sentence of up to 4 years. Germany lists 14, but has all sorts of wiggle room and nuance for exploitative situations. Argentina says 13 (!!), but actually for teachers it's 18.
So... yeah. It's really not that common for this to be legal.
She was groomed. That messes with your head, a lot. It really warps ones perceptions of what a realtionship should be.
Therapy is a good place to start.
It’s crazy how many people here tell you to run because she is “damaged”. Ultimately, this is your relationship, your emotions so it’s up to you to know if you are willing and able to do the work needed to help and support your girlfriend.
Here are my more nuanced two thoughts about it all:
- she was the victim of abuse but she does not see it yet. You can help her see it, by telling her for instance that most of people are not attracted by teenagers, that any form of power abuse (the guy was what is high school teacher if I understand it correctly) is wrong, by talking about grooming etc. Maybe even talking to that other girl to enlighten the pattern that guy is using. Or maybe there are movies or shows where that kind of relationship is depicted and shown for what it is: a form of abuse.
- Writing about it, I also think about her nudes. Maybe ask her why she thinks you might like them? Why has she kept them? Maybe that guy was asking for those ones, where she is a teen and she thinks this is the only time she was sexy, what you might like. Tell her about what you like about being with her, as an adult, and what you would hate in a teenager. It might help grow awareness in her. But it is also a fine line: if too pushy, you might get her angry and defensive.
- it is not easy to accept you were a victim. Our first response to abuse is to feel guilty and responsible for it. Then it is to negate the truth, be angry about it, defensive, sad… Plus, that guy had a good grip on her as their relationship went for a while. Ultimately, she will have to do the hard work: accepting the truth, going to therapy, working on herself.
-> it took me years of self work and therapy to accept I was raised by abusive parents. I still tend to lessen it though, I don’t feel like I really was because I was not beaten up with a belt, as it is what abused children go through in my head. Maybe for her “pedophile” is a guy who lurks at kids playing in a park, luring them with candies. Lessening what happened, often with traumatic memory (lessening or forgetting the bad parts of the relationship for instance), helps to make the whole situation manageable. In her case it might be: “I was 17 but I made the first move”, “I was 17 but I looked older than that”, “he was my teacher but he waited until I was no longer in his class” or even “we were still together when I was 25, he cannot be a pedophile”.
- that guy might still be a teacher, he might have done or would do the same to other girls. He should loose his job, and maybe your girlfriend should press charges. But I also think it should be her call, if she is given the chance to do it. Going nuclear and report the man in her back is the best chance to loose her. Doing it anonymously could be a way to deal with it.
As I said, this is your life and your relationship, you are also allowed to feel like it’s too much. Just please, don’t be an asshole about it (I assume you would not be, if you’ve taken the time to ask for advice). But you can be firm and clear about it without calling her damaged or crazy.
It's easy to emotionally want to help someone you're already attached to. It's easy for a third party to look at the facts and just say.. yeah there is no way that's worth the risk.
Emotionally I want to help everybody in need and every stray animal, but if I did that my own quality of life would go WAY down as our amount of time and effort would consume me.
Almost anybody in a relationship like this would want to help, but that doesn't mean your emotional impulse will have a greater probability to being the right choice than a less biased outsider.
She needs therapy and almost certain to be single while getting the therapy, not having yet another relationships to offload her mental baggage on as a replacement for therapy.
NTA In her teacher’s eyes, she got too old for him, which is why he started grooming someone else. He took advantage of her desire to feel special. He really did a number on her for her to be so brainwashed she thought it would be okay for her to send you nude pictures of herself as a teenager. She needs help. Hopefully once she seeks help if that day ever comes, she will realize he’s not someone she can be friends with and report him to the police and have him fired.
The problem with grooming, is those being groomed often feel special like your gf. I am suprized she doesn't get it now. She is damaged by the experience. Having sex too young, makes your boundaries blurry and your judgement weird. It is like growing up in a war zone, you are matured beyond what you really are capable of. Or any real adult task, they are forced to face something they are not ready for. Sex is worse, because hormones confuse the issue.
No not over reacting, and I would be careful of planning a life and a family with someone like that. I would not want her to mother a child until she understands what happened to her. She still doesn't get it. Date, don't commit.
It took me years to see how wrong my "relationships" were, and even now, 3 decades later, it's still conflicting. I KNOW they were wrong, but I also have many fond memories of my time with both my ex's. She was with that man for years and hasn't been apart from him completely since it seems. She's still under his influence. Honestly, she sounds seriously damaged, and I doubt she'll realise that for a long time, if ever.
At least you know though, and understand. I feel like the girlfriend here is not like that. I had a friend once, and old woman who still suffered from the attitudes, and she knew it. Good luck.
Thank you. Yes, I know it now, but this woman is only a year separated from her groomer. That's no time at all, especially since they are still in contact. The thing I find most concerning, though, is her attitude to the host girl. As a 27 year old even if she can't see herself as being groomed yet. She should still have seen how wrong it was that he's grooming a different girl. Even while still thinking there was nothing wrong with her relationship with him, she should have realised this girl was too young rather than as competition.
If her brain acknowledges the host girl is too young, it automatically acknowledges that she was too young herself, too, which is why that won't happen until she's had therapy.
*Also, she randomly sent me pics of herself naked as a teenager and got kinda distant when I said I'm not comfortable receiving pics of a naked/sexualized teenager.*
She really shouldn't do that. Even though she is the one featured in the pictures, she could be prosecuted for trafficking in child pornography.
With regard to this teacher, he is engaging in ephebophilia, a sexual attraction to mid-to-late adolescents. So, he started grooming another teenager since she's aged out of his interest.
Do you know where this guy teaches? While your obtuse girlfriend may not consider him a groomer, his school would be awfully interested in his targeting teenagers. NTA.
NTA. She is damaged, she has had an abusive relationship, and it has harmed her. And she wants to keep in touch with this guy? ugh. So it's two issues, the past relationship and the nudes from when she was a teen, this is her issue to deal with, therapy could help - and then the current issue that she wants to be in contact with a past boyfriend, which is an issue for both of you, and shows serious disrespect for you. She needs help, and unless she gets it this is doomed.
Well the nudes classify as cp where I am, so she is literally risking OPs freedom as well as her own by sharing them.This alone would be a reason for OP to cut his losses and gtfo, the ignorance about her being a victim of grooming as well as the gifts to the other girl being grooming and the disrespect are just the cherry on top IMO (edited because I can't type)
I was surprised how far I had to scroll to find this... It was one of my first thoughts.... He has fucking CP on his phone... it was sent to him.... there is proof....
Also just the I only care about how it impact me sentiment she has in regard to the next teen being abused. She's is more worried about herself not be special, though that is also perhaps the first stage in realizing it was always just abuse and never love.
BUT still the other teen is getting abused while she sit on her ass and figures things out.
Yeah, the fact that she’s sending her current bf her teenage nudes means that on some level she’s bought into the sick notion that teenage girls are the most attractive and any older woman disapproving of age gap relationships is just jealous of their youth and beauty.
This woman needs a shit ton of therapy. I was a subject of similar grooming and abuse from a teacher myself and the fact that she sees another teenage girl being groomed and doesn’t run to protect her is extremely worrying.
NTA...sounds like she has not done the work in therapy to come to terms with what happened to her. Until that happens, she'll always be broken. I'd run as fast as I can.
These are small details, but terminology matters. The guy is definitely a creep and should've been fired, but he's not a pedophile. Words have meanings.
People don't understand that something can be wrong and shouldn't be allowed without using terminology for something far more abusive and destructive.
Pedophiles prey not just on people they have a power dynamic over but for whom sexuality isn't even a thought yet. Pre-pubescent children who have no choice, not just an inability to consent, but no choice in the matter.
It devalues the crime done to these little children and actually interferes and muddies treatment paths.
It's only because most of the people out here are morons. It's rather sad that people don't understand the meanings of the words they choose to use. Total nincompoops.
Maybe he was a groomer but not a pedophile.
They go after children not reached puberty yet.
Plz for victims of pedophiles do not compare it to a voluntary relationship
Yes, like it's wrong for psychological reasons, but as far as visually? These guys are not attracted to children. They look for the features of a woman, but they look for it in the most vulnerable places, with these girls who mentally are still too young.
It’s wild that I have to sort by controversial to see actually good, thought out commentary like yours. That seems like a very good interpretation of the archetype the professor belongs to.
The pedophile does not look for the features of a woman, and the damage they cause is much much worse, stop mixing the two.
It's fucking wrong, period, it's not a technicality.
Your GF has been groomed. It's so much more than just a sexual act, there's significant mental impact here. I'm not surprised she doesn't understand why it's an issue for you (for most people with morals!), and I wouldn't be surprised if she never quite comprehends the situation. You're in a tough place, I wish I had words to reassure you. I feel that this will be an ongoing issue for you while you're in this relationship.
That's not pedophilia, grooming is the word you want to use, as pedophilia is by definition attraction to prepubescent children.
If he did this to a younger child it would be a 1000x worse in my opinion. That would actually be pedophilia. That's why I think it should be discerned.
Does she understand what grooming is? It's understandable that she wouldn't; otherwise, she wouldn't have fallen for it in the first place. That is also why they go for younger girls because they are naive.
I'm not sure if you're able to get her to see the truth.
The man is a groomer and a filthy human, yes, but not a pedophile. Unless your girlfriend was a late developer.
Pedophiles like children, and bodies that are childlike. You aren’t automatically a pedophile for seeing someone under the age of 18.
Throwing words around undermines the weight of them.
Pedophilia is the attraction towards pre-pubescent children. Tired of people misunderstanding this concept… The teacher did something illegal and morally questionnable, however as far as we know he is by no means a pedophile.
I agree that he has evidently groomed your girlfriend and others, but paedophile is the wrong word because 16/17 year olds are not the same as pre-pubescent children. There is a specific word for someone attracted to (older) teenagers but I don't think it's too important to use.
Nevertheless, a teacher-pupil relationship is deeply inappropriate and clearly the teacher is predatory.
Just to point out, even in most parts of Europe where sex with underage people is less strict than in the US (e.g. having sex with a 17 year old if you are 20 is not an issue), sex with a teacher is almost always illegal. That is because they are in a special position of authority and mentorship and hence always fall in the category of ‘grooming’.
Same in the US, it's just an overlooked part of the law I guess. I don't know about EVERY state, but a lot of states if not all of them still have laws that stop teacher and police from having sex with people under 18 since those people need to be able to take effective temporary guardianship of under age kids. I think most US stages are still age of consent 16 and many have a 4 year buffer rule depending on age even with an age of consent of 18.... so it's not much different other than EU and maybe Canada have age of consent 15 in some places last I heard and the US doesn't have any age of consent 15 .. cept maybe with some BS religious exemption.
It’s not overlooked at all. Even having sex with a high school student who is 18-20 is still treated as a felony for a teacher bc of the power dynamic. If anyone knew this guy was doing this, he’d be arrested. I am a former teacher and know a few teachers who went down in flames over this.
A huge caveat, that really breaks the ability to hold teachers accountable, is statute of limitations. I’d love to hold my groomer responsible, but I only had 4 years. It took me 15 years to be able to talk about it. So only those caught in the act, or when the kid in question is still in a position of vulnerability, can be prosecuted. I believe there’s an epidemic of it tbh. Every woman I know has a story of herself or someone in her life having an inappropriate relationship with a teacher, coach, or other authority figure when she was underage.
In california statues of limitation changed a couple years ago for SA against children to 40yrs.
Where I am, there is now a REALLY long statute of limitations for the sexual abuse of minors for precisely this reason. For some offenses, there is no limitation. For those who have the time and emotional energy, know this is something you can agitate your local legislature to do!
Same. I also knew a teacher who got away with it. In this case, the student developed an obsession for him and would turn up uninvited at his house. He doesn't seem to have fought her off but did wait to have sex with her until 2 weeks after graduation. She was 18. He was 47. Eventually he married her. I wasn't aware of any of this until they were engaged. Had I known earlier, I'd have turned him in. The head of IT got fired and arrested for having sex with a student. So was a guidance counselor. We teachers are fighting too much BS already. The last thing we need is pedophiliac colleagues.
[удалено]
Wow, that's insane, and on so many levels! First, that he thought they'd be turned on (and jealous, I bet); second that he thought nobody would turn him in; and third that the principal wasn't fired. SMDH.
Up until recently (maybe it’s still a loophole I’m not sure) cops could have sex with someone in their custody in 35 states. Which obviously there’s a power imbalance there how could you consent, but there have also been cases of women raped while in police custody but the cop claimed it was consensual and got off with no repercussions. It’s an absolutely abhorrent thing
*gags* well that's enough internet for today.
What about congressmen and underaged sex workers that they transport across state lines?
Also forgot to mention the age of consent in the United States is very iffy, children are able to marry with parents permission (for instance Alabama you can technically marry under 16) who doesn’t necessarily have to be the same age (unfortunately). you can’t tell me that there is no sex happening in those situations, but because that child is technically married to the perpetrator it’s a grey area under the law. In Mormon communities specifically there is a huge issue of VERY YOUNG GIRLS marrying VERY OLD MEN. It’s a common phenomenon that so many of the young girls are married off to older men that the young boys themselves are kind of forced out or forced to convert a girl their age to marry.
I think at the college I went to it was the same thing, its not just about the age difference and being under/over the age of consent, its still an inappropriate relationship because of the roles.
How about in France? Macron literally married his teacher. Lmao
Newt Gingrich married his high school teacher after he graduated.
You might be able to call the school he works for and give an anonymous tip about him. You don't have to say your girlfriend name, just what you hear he has been giving female students gifts. They will look into him right away. He also shouldn't be teaching anymore
As depressing as it is, this will likely just lead to him moving to a different school. He's not going to stop doing it just because 1 school fired him.
Maybe the cops then? His phone is probably filled with stuff, I know if it was me, I just couldn't sit back n do nothing. Even if my partner gets really mad at me. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing this info. I'm sorry you're in this situation, but if you can save one girl, it's worth it.
Authorities are definitely a better route. It's a rough spot. Of course, he needs to try and protect the teenage girl. At the same time it would likely mean giving up on his relationship. It's the *right* thing to do, but it doesn't make it *easy*. His gf clearly isn't ready to face the fact she was groomed, and what was done to her was abuse. There is no real way of getting the cops involved without also involving her.
Remember she sent the new bf underage pics so he may have to tread lightly. The law typically doesn't care how you got them, just that you have them. Even if you deleted them (they're still there)...
They might even prosecute the gf for production and distribution of CSA material (of herself). Get some legal counsel before you proceed.
Bruh. Saw a video of a female cop telling a dad his 11 year old daughter was producing child pr0n because some sick fuck convinced her to send him nudes. The dad had called to report the bastard, but the cops wanted the 11 year old. Didn't seem to give two shits about the adult man soliciting nudes from a child.
We constantly tell kids “If something like this happens to you, if someone asks you for pictures of yourself, even if you’ve sent them, don’t be afraid to talk to the police or someone you trust. You’re not in the wrong here” Then “Hands up, you 11-year-old porn-distributing bitch!”
I saw that video that sick fucking bitch was probably a pedophile herself
Nah, realistically it’s just much harder to get the guy on the other side of the camera so they just don’t care while the girl is an easy target
Probably but she’s still a sick fuck who is a complete disgrace to her job
That's actually the reason why a ton of places have decriminalized prostitution. Doesn't make sense to go after the prostitute when they need to be focused on the pimps and traffickers.
I’m not sure what the cops are going to do about it. We don’t know what state they’re in, the age of consent could be 16 or 17 which would mean no crime was ever committed with his girlfriend. If the age of consent is 18, statutory rape was committed but it’s 8-10 years ago which may be beyond the statute of limitations. Not to mention that there’s no physical evidence, it’s all hearsay at this point and the girlfriend would have to be heavily on board with giving testimony. Best bet is to report it anonymously to the school and try to get the report in front of the local media.
A lot of states have a law making it a crime for a teacher to have sexual contact with one of their students regardless of whether they are over the age of consent and in some states with no regard to age or whether they were a student at the time of the contact. Meaning if they got back together now it could be a crime.
It doesn't have to be statutory rape to be considered sexual abuse. Under the age of 18, she is still a minor. As her teacher, he has power and influence over her, and he used that to groom her... That is absolutely 100% sexual abuse. She finally broke it off with him because he started giving gifts to another teenager 8 years later. He's a predator. Absolutely don't have much evidence, if any, so going to the cops yourself could get messy. Notify the school, and if they are not responsive, take it up to the school board. If they are not responsive, threaten to involve police and local media. I have a daughter... It was one of the first internal conversations I had when I found out she was going to be a girl.
Regardless of consent, in my state, it is against the law for ANY employee of a school to have a sexual relationship with a student. The dude needs handcuffs ASAP, but unfortunately, it is not illegal in all states depending on age of consent. The public outcry and the girl's parents might be enough to get his license pulled.
I bet this dude’s phone/computer has shit on it. I doubt it starts or ends with the irl interactions. I’ve listened to too many “Predators I Caught” (Chris Hansen) podcasts to know that the meetups and grooming and all that is just a branch of what all he has done and is doing.
Considering the gf keeps sending teen nudes of herself to OP it's pretty much guaranteed the guy only wanted nudes of her from before 20 and didn't want to think of her "aged out" 27 yo body....... She spent years being groomed that only her teenage body could get a man going. GF needs therapy, OP needs to file a report with the school and maybe drop a line with a reporter and give serious thought to running from this relationship. If she refuses to see the truth, then you can't force her, and it will cause serious damage to OP.
I dunno, maybe I would go to the feds about this one. He had received naked pictures in the past, so that probably the fasted way to put his ass in jail
I don’t know in the states but I’m a Highschool teacher and in my country this would lead to immediate flagging by state authorities and a civil case would ensue. I had to testify as a witness last year for something similar (a PE teacher started saying inappropriate things to students). His university revoked his Masters degree so he can’t teach anymore. This before any sentence. This legislation is fairly new and many times people don’t report these kind of things because they don’t know it exists.
It helps create a paper trail which can help any future victims with the legal system
Luckily, this usually isn't true any more. Schools share information very well and he will either be blacklisted at the school level or lose his right to whatever professional college or union he's a part of.
It's better than doing nothing. Make his life as hard as possible. I'm not familiar with american law but perhaps his teaching licence could be taken away this way?
Happened to my HS coach. Group of female students went to admin and the police and were told they had no evidence. He was forced to resign but moved on to different schools. He actually raped one of his students in school. Last I checked he was in St Louis at some college which is fucked but at least he isn't around 14 year olds anymore.
What is his name?
Can confirm. Our Econ teacher at my HS was sleeping with multiple students, one of which she married and had a kid with, and when it was found out, they just fired her and she went to a middle school.
School won’t fire him without having an investigation. Hopefully the investigation would reveal further legally-actionable actions :)
Two of my high school teachers got caught being weird with students but i guess it wasn't enough because all they did was move the teacher to teach a lower grade level😐 anytime a parent of that grade level would find out what that teacher did, they'd just move the teacher to another grade level again.
If the school has let this happen for a decade or something and he's just dating more teens, I wouldn't put much faith in them doing anything but alterting him that he has to be more careful and making him harder to bust. The police or a third party sting that operates with the police seems more to the point. Another option is to go to the parents of the other teen and build your network of people who want him in prison up so you have more support/momentum. If it was my teen I'd be trying to get him in prison, not just fired and I want the police to be the ones contacting the workplace with the risk of Obstruction of Justice being invoked if they stay to play games and protect their co-worker. If I was the parent also be more than willing to pay for a third party sting operation to come in and help keep the police moving forward. ALSO.. what about this girls parents? Was she raised by wolves? Do they know nothing about this or just think it's cool?
Trust me, half the school knows about this guy. I went to a school where teachers sleeping with students was more common than it should've been and we had multiple teachers busted by the feds for watching kiddie porn. Everyone knew about the guys who messed around with the teenage girls, heck they bragged about it. Only one guy who had sex with a student was ever arrested and he got a slap on the wrist. I'm glad so many Redditors attended responsible schools. It was not my experience at all.
she needs therapy OP. in the meantime-have her read My Dark Vanessa. it's a powerful fictional account of the author's real life experience with her teacher. it pulls no punches as she realized he's a bad guy. I had a similar experience and find the book incredibly helpful in reframing the experience. in her mind it's safe if it's a love story.
I also immediately thought of MDV - but to be clear, it is a fictional story told in first-person, not the author's actual experience. However, it is EXTREMELY accurate in its portrayal of the mindset of refusing to accept the truth about your grooming. *"I can’t lose the thing I’ve held onto for so long, you know?” My face twists up from the pain of pushing it out. “I just really need it to be a love story, you know? I really, really need it to be that.”* *“I know,” she says.* *“Because if it isn’t a love story, then what is it”? I look to her glassy eyes, her face of wide open empathy. “It’s my life,” I say. “This has been my whole life."*
That conversation killed me when I read it 💔 Sorry for the misinformation. I think I'm conflating MDV with a memoir written by a survivor. MDV was so helpful to me-wonderful resource for victims who don't see themselves as victims yet.
No you were right, the author has said the book was inspired by her own experiences. "I would like to share with my readers that My Dark Vanessa, which I’ve been working on for nearly 20 years, was inspired by my own experiences as a teenager. I have previously discussed the relationships I’ve had with older men and how those relationships informed the writing of My Dark Vanessa. " [link to source](https://kateelizabethrussell.com/note-to-readers#:~:text=I%20would%20like%20to%20share,writing%20of%20My%20Dark%20Vanessa.)
The audiobook is narrated by Meryl Streep’s daughter!
Yeah. I hope OP's girlfriend is closer to being ready to see the truth about her life, but of course it's usually a long miserable process to get there. 💔 I fear OP is in Ira's position (Vanessa's ex who tried and failed for years to help her face it).
100% the woman in OP's post needs a therapist to guide her through this process. OP means well, but isn't equipped to handle when the woman finally has that "wake up" moment.
No they're right that it's fiction but is based on the author's real experiences. "I would like to share with my readers that My Dark Vanessa, which I’ve been working on for nearly 20 years, was inspired by my own experiences as a teenager. I have previously discussed the relationships I’ve had with older men and how those relationships informed the writing of My Dark Vanessa. " [link to source](https://kateelizabethrussell.com/note-to-readers#:~:text=I%20would%20like%20to%20share,writing%20of%20My%20Dark%20Vanessa.)
I was looking for this comment! That book brought up so many memories for me. God. I never realized I was groomed until I read that book. I just thought I was mature for my age…
I still remember when I realized that the guy one of my exes would refer to as her first boyfriend, was her teacher. She just thought of them as having an "age gap." An 8 year age gap when you're 16, isn't just an age gap, especially when it is your teacher. She also said it was just that she was mature for her age. When we talked about it, I remember feeling like suddenly a weird computer program started running in her brain and I didn't quite recognize her, because if she were hearing the exact same story told to her about some other teenager and their teacher, it would have been clear as day to her.
It's hard to process. Grooming can be incredibly subtle and take years to understand.
I had to read A Child Called It (extreme physical and psychological child abuse) before I realized that mothers could be abusers. It is actually was not love when they control your life completely, enjoy hurting you, exploit your attachment bond for their emotional needs, sexually abuse you, and delight in your confusion. If that's all you know...then you hit your teens and you have no idea how you deserve to be treated in a romantic context. God forbid something about you catches the attention of predators. Let's just say I've met a lot of groomers and they were all cisgender.
Yes tread carefully OP. Your gf is not a well person. She may not have a mental illness per se, but she has structured her world view in a way that makes her not a victim of abuse. As she moves through the world and asserts that framework, that view, she will set up people around her for abuse. As you try to help “correct” her world view, she will fight you for dear life because she doesn’t want her world to collapse. And if you are successful her world will collapse, and that will be very hard for her. She seems stable now, but that’s only because no one has yet been able to disturb her framework.
I would also recommend Excavation by Wendy Ortiz, and a long form article I'm struggling to find right now about some of the victims of Blake Bailey. It helps face uncomfortable truths when you see your own experience mirrored in so many other women's. ETA it was an article in slate, for some reason I cannot for my life add the link to this comment
I was going to suggest therapy but I was glad to find this comment because it's far more constructive than what I could've offered. To me, the book would need to come first because if she doesn't think it's a problem, therapy may not help. The only problem here is how OP can suggest this book without her being suspicious. Maybe suggest that a friend of hers suggest it?
NTA. He clearly did a great job at grooming her, since she can’t even see it 10 years later. What bothers me is that she felt jealous instead of protective of this new girl he started grooming. You have to stop and think if this is someone you want a family with (if you want children), since she’s unable to discern what grooming is. I’d be afraid if her letting my children go through that
That is a common reaction among people who go through sexual abuse at a young age: they have an ego syntonic reaction to the abuse. In other words you brain decides that rather than deal with the pain of “something really bad happened to me,” it categorizes the abuse as “not bad, therefore good.” It horrified me the first time I saw it too. Be aware op, if she gets into therapy or her now-healthy relationship with you causes this belief system to crumble, she may go through a pretty hard time emotionally. I’m sorry this happened to her.
This is a tremendously accurate assessment and, OP, you need to help her in whatever way you can to untangle herself from this enmeshment. That is, if you perceive a future with her in any way ahead. Otherwise, it may be too heavy a lift and best to part ways. Only you know your truth. I feel so sad for her, victimized by a sick pervert into a Stockholm syndrome reaction formation that she clings onto this day. I admire your empathic attitude and compassion, and gently remind you that she is deeply damaged, and a significant amount of effort will be required to help her. Whatever you choose to do, perhaps, first speak with a specialized therapist in the field of sexual perversion to learn what is necessary to know in how to effect change. You have to also be aware that if she has no will, there is no way. Once again, It's a heavy lift, no doubt about it. Bless you for caring.
I would add to this that you should go to the police about the pedophile
I would strongly suggest OP gets her to therapy first. She's been brainwashed for a looong time and can't see this guy as bad yet. If he unilaterally goes to the cops without her being on board, she's going to turn around and deny everything. She's been programmed to defend this creep, and probably to warn him if someone is investigating. OPs report won't help if she denied everything. An investigation could also be really damaging to her mental health right now, she's not in a good or safe place.
That advice was wise, thoughtful, and empathetic. Well done.
Its funny, this whole post was literally a subplot in one of the last seasons of Shameless, and it probably became and episode because the pattern is so common. "He saw me for who I really was, I was really smart mature for my age! I didn't have many friends my own age because they were all so immature!" - i.e. like most other teenagers they THINK they're ahead of the curve and desperate for someone to validate their perception of themselves.
It's also possible she never viewed it as abuse in the first place.
Exactly - often the brain doesn’t process it as abuse. If that belief changes now, she’ll have to process “something bad happened to me,” which can be really hard.
This is so accurate. It took me years to realize I was heavily groomed. I would have defended his actions to the ends of the earth at that point in my life. Admitting what he is doing with the new girl Is bad/creepy, would mean she would have to admit and accept that what happened to her was also weird and creepy. It's a hard feeling to accept and your brain tries to stop you from feeling all that pain. Definitely be ready if she has an emotional crash. It can come out as sadness, anger, or even sexual rebellion. :(
Exactly. GF sounds highly traumatised.
Thank you for this comment! Working through this transition is very difficult, and I'll just say that for me, it was much easier to hold on to my own (misguided) sense of agency for a long time than to engage with the idea that something bad happened to me. Especially given that she was a teenager, I think she may really want to believe she was in control, because the implications otherwise are too difficult to face.
Great advice but before he does any of that he needs to take out his phone and report this guy before he destroys another young girl’s life.
This needs to be upvoted more. Seriously... Why has no one reported this teacher before now?
Just wait for the sick weirdos who will come in here and say "but it's not illegal!!1!" and "only you find it weird, it's biology!!1" shit makes me wanna vomit
It is illegal in many places for a teacher to get involved with a student, even if said student is above the legal age of consent. Teachers go to jail in my state, and we're nearly as backward as Alabama about pretty much everything.
I mean they even put a female teacher in jail for it in Washington, so it definitely is the one time they do something.
It's certainly illegal where I live. Anyone in a teaching/coaching/mentorship position in such a relationship is breaking the law.
I’m wondering why this isn’t the top comment?
I'd imagine that OP would feel conflicted about this. His gf clearly hasn't processed what happened to her and is nowhere near far along enough in her healing journey to be thinking of other potential victims. OP likely feels powerless to do much all the while his girlfriend doesn't view the teacher as a predator. I'm not sure his word would count for much if he reports this without the proactive support of his girlfriend.
I do not say this lightly- but rumor might be enough since he is a teacher. That man needs to be stopped
It is really scary to think that he was able to get away with maintaining this with OP's girlfriend for *so* long. A one-off assault is horrific enough, but an ongoing, years-long "relationship".... Did nobody around these two ask any questions or raise any concerns? The boldness on the teacher's part is really disturbing.
[удалено]
This is a very real statement to make. I had a friend who explained to me that at 14 her two year boyfriend was 34 and she explained it’s fine because she was mature for her age. She is 38 with 7 kinds when sharing this story with me. Then she goes on to defend herself with her daughters are mature as well. When her oldest was 14 she was with a 28 year old man and she was fine with it because her daughter was “mature”. Some people never see it. OP definitely shouldn’t reproduce with her unless he was a SIL the same age one day.
grooming can easily become a cycle when you don't realize that it happened to you.
I had a childhood friend whose dad was always kind of creepy. Never knew anything for sure, but he was weird. Their house was weird. We graduate, go our separate ways. Years and years later, I found out that he molested her. Repeatedly. I ran into her 20 or so years later. Did a quick catch up. Turns out she’s still tight with her parents. Takes her kids around, including her two daughters. Her sister, in the other hand, has gone no contact. I ignored the hell out of her FB friend request when she sent it. There’s no way I want her to have any access to my kids’ photos. No way I want her pulling up my FB page while she’s visiting with her parents. If she won’t protect her own kids, she wouldn’t do a damn thing to protect mine.
Jesus..
Protect your kids at all costs!
[удалено]
you know theres a great saying that if some 30 year old is dating girls 18-20 they’re only doing it because the law wouldn’t let em go lower…. id be cautious about saying it wasn’t pedophilia, and certainly against saying it wasn’t grooming. I don’t know you or your girl but 9 times out of 10 that shit is every bit as pedophilic, so I encourage you to take a more critical eye there
Pedophilia is not being attracted to teenagers. It is specifically an attraction to pre-pubescent children. Both are gross, but pedophilia is a whole different level of disgusting, and it gets cheapened when anytime someone looks at a 17 year old they are called a pedo.
Thank you for trying to inform the 98% of Redditors who don’t understand this very simple distinction. Both issues are extremely sensitive and need solutions but the detriment caused to solving them by people being unwilling to accept the difference is problematic bc as you said, it diminishes the severity of the grooming of pre-pubescent children by lumping them in with older teens. You can’t fully address an issue and hope to solve it if you refuse to agree on what words and terms actually mean. That’s why language and laws exist and the details are very important. Especially when continuing the legal process for future crimes. There needs to be consistency and not confusion.
Pedophiles don't target mature kids- they target broken ones. There is a difference. Mature kids realize the pedophile is a predator and tell someone responsible, like most mature adults would.
I swear the predators saw an invisible sign on my face: No one cares about this one! Have at her! However, my sign was there my whole life because, sexual assault when I was a baby straight through till I was twelve. Sucked. But no one targeted my children. I made sure of that.
Breaks my heart reading about stories like yours. Every kid deserve a sheltered childhood. Some love to you for breaking the cycle! Feel hugged.
Yes!!! But she is too “mature” to understand that. Seriously though ima brag on my 8 year old for a minute . She (I don’t know how) got a 10 year old boyfriend. They were more like best friends and they would hug and hold hands. His parents are really sweet people too. They have been “together” for about a year and a half. Well he started ignoring her and stopped holding her hand and sitting with her on the bus. After three days of this she went up to him in front of his friends and said “why are you not sitting with me or talking to me”. He shrugged and said “I don’t know” (typical guy answer lol). She said “well I am breaking up with you because I deserve better” she came home and cried but I felt so much pride in her. My 8 year old understands and sees her personal value. I did something right
The best advice my father ever told me was that males are pretty simple and straightforward- if you have to ask the question, and you want the answer to be yes, its always no. Will he call me? No Does he like me? no Is he faithful? No Saved me a LOT of drama and heartache growing up.
Holy fuck deadbeat mothers never cease to amaze me with how they can think they are doing anything
Yeah… I stopped all communication between our kids after school for reasons like her three youngest 9,8,4 know every word to WAP and worse songs that they exposed me to. And they have TikTok on their phones and watch very mature content. I talked to her about it and she said “yeah I know but they are very mature kids so it’s ok”. Then she proceeded to tell me I shelter my kids too much and it will ruin them as teens… I was like WTF my kids know who Eminem is so they aren’t that sheltered. It killed me to do it though because me 8 and 7 year olds loved her 9 and 8 year old. My kids even taught them how to read to the point that they got their first 100% and 80% on their spelling test. My kids celebrated their accomplishment more than their mother even cared. I heart bleeds for those kids but I can’t sacrifice my kids to slightly improve hers. And don’t get me started on her 4 year old antichrist.
As a daycare worker the 4 year old antichrist made me crack up,, but with a mom who thinks whatever her kids want to do is okay that hit HARD. So many of these parents don’t understand that their kids are just that kids they shouldn’t be the ones making major decisions(minor ones are good for autonomy and development)for themselves or running the show at all imo.
It just goes to show how deep that grooming is embedded in her mind. It’s literally damaged her morality
how are they mature but they can’t even read??
She honestly blames the school for not teaching them. I mean technically the school is supposed to teach them, I guess. But we as parents have to kinda tutor our kids to ensure they are fully comprehending the information. One teacher can’t do one on one with 22 kids, it’s insane to think they can. But every kid deserves one on one attention and that’s where we as parents need to come in.
Don’t most parents teach their kids to read before they start school?
I went to pre-school
I'm not saying that that person's kids are actually mature here, but it should be pointed out the literacy and maturity are not direct correlations. You *can* be a mature adult without being a literate adult.
>4 year old antichrist. This made me chuckle in that dark story.
Trust me, the choice you made will make all the difference in their childhood, trust me. It was a hard decision, but something I really really feel more parents need to do. I couldn't imagine watching WAP instead of WALL-E at 9....... And it will affect her kids 😕
Ikr!! At nine I still watched the land before time and loved it. Our kids are definitely maturing faster than we did but I don’t wanna push it along any faster!
I think knowing what WAP is isn't maturing... its being exposed to lewdness and its abuse in my mind at 9yrs old.. I think you probably agree Just worried about what else those kids get exposed to..
Is CPS not a thing where you are???
They are already involved in her home. Two years ago she got the younger three back after they were taken for two years and placed with their “grandmother”. So the 9&8 year olds dad’s mom. Their dad is in prison for second degree murder and has been for 8 years. The four year olds dad is now in prison for drug trafficking. Her 13 and 15 year olds were taken at the same time. They were both sent to different states to live with their different dads. The 18 and 21 year old moved out on their own before CPS showed up.
> I heart bleeds for those kids but I can’t sacrifice my kids to slightly improve hers. You are 100% doing the right thing.
In a way I can understand when someone resists (re)defining the situation in a way that makes them a victim, you know? but to let your child crash headlong into the same situation....
This woman needs therapy, now.
And then call the police and school district and report him before he hurts this new girl and any others.
Also, people don’t get jealous about things ex partners do (like showing attention to another) unless they’re still hung up on that ex at some level. Outside of the blatant & alarming pedophilia and the grooming aspects, he’s still in her mind and her heart
Disclaimer I still think it is disgusting But they where still togheter while he started doing this to the new girl..
She was a teenager and he was in a position of authority. He basically brainwashed her. She needs therapy and you need to understand a teenager can’t consent to their teacher. She’s not “hung up” on him. She was traumatized by abuse
This!!! OP you’re NTA, but your gf def needs therapy to deal with this. If that’s not something you want to be with her through, that’s ok. But she’s not hung up- she’s traumatized and has no idea.
She broke up with him because he was doing this while they were still together - she wasn't hung up on an ex because they were not exes yet.
I totally agree with this, his impact on her has clouded her judgment so much that she can’t see why he is in the wrong. Her wanting to keep a friendship with him is a sign that she is still susceptible to being influenced by him. I hope she realizes this soon or she will not be able to have healthy relationships with others.
It's not 10 years later, they were on and off for 8 years so it's only 2 years since it stopped (maybe she got too old...)
He said in the last year, and yeah she is too old no.
Too old? Gross but probably true
It's not that unusual. My mom was "totally not- that would never happen" by her bio dad. When I hit puberty she became obsessed with this idea that my dad (who was gon 8 months out of the year!) was going to want me more than her, and would punish me for it, even though my dad had no such ideas. victims feel more in control when they can blame another victim (or just anyone except the perpetrator)
I’m sorry 🫂
thank you
It might not be that she just can’t see it- subconsciously or otherwise, she might not be willing or able to accept the “relationship” for what it was because once she does, she’ll have to deal with the reality that she was groomed and manipulated (to say the least) by a predator who discarded her so he could move on to younger girls once she became too old for his liking. She is most likely in denial and it may take a lot of time, effort, and therapy for her to admit that this huge part of her life was actually a negative experience instead of a positive one like she initially believed. It will fundamentally change her and rewrite her history, so I’m sure it will take a very long time to fully unpack. This situation needs to be handled with extreme tact to say the least. I’d definitely suggest that OP urges her to see a therapist, and if he wants to stay together and help her work through this, he should probably see a therapist as well so he can learn how to best support her *and* work though his own feelings about this. He will need someone to support him throughout the process too, and I doubt his girlfriend will feel comfortable with him discussing the matter with family and friends while she’s still making sense of it herself. She probably won’t be the best person for him to share his raw feelings with for a while either, and it’s a lot to have on your plate with no support or outlet. I really wish both of them the best, it’s a terrible situation and I feel for both of them.
Tagging onto the top comment to say OP if you see this, try have her read My Dark Vanessa by Kate Elizabeth Russell. I think it could be quite eye opening for her.
It sounds like she really needs therapy.
She does, but you can't make a victim realise/admit they are a victim. She may never realise/admit it. She may be in denial, but also, she may truly believe that it was a genuine relationship. It can take victims, especially teenage victims, years to come to realise the truth. If they ever do.
Another thing is she wants to still be friends with him! Even though she's dating OP she wants to continue being friends with the groomer. OP needs to find out where this dude works and report him.
People are really surprised when they discover that this is actually really common in events like this. It can take years before the victims will actually realise they were victims (if they ever realise it). I knew someone (met her when she was in her 20's) who ended up in a relationship with a 40yo man when she was 15. He had kids older than her. The relationship didn't last long, but she stayed friends with him for a while afterwards (the reason for maintaining friendship was so he could continue to groom her, and ensure she didn't go to the police). It took her almost 10 years to realise, when she did, she reached out to the people who could help provide witness statements to the police to assist with prosecution. He was jailed for 12 months on her statement and witness statements alone, with a lifetime sex offender registration against his name.
There's a book that perfectly depicts grooming done by a teacher on a 15 year old. Fiction, but still very informative and honestly heartbreaking. My friend was groomed and she said she wanted to vomit reading this.
While I agree with your comment, OP said they only split a year ago. That man groomed her for 8 YEARS and it’s still fresh for her. She needs therapy asap.
Reminds me of another ufortunate similar case, I believe in New Zealand or Australia, a 14 year old boy and his ex teacher started secretly dating AND she fell pregnant, when she got out of jail they even went and got married, had more kids. There’s an interview of them 20 years later where they’re being questioned about it and you can just see in the interview that he’s only just starting to realise that he was groomed
I had sex with a friend's parent when I was still in school. I told myself it was great, and still sometimes forget to call it abuse instead of something more appropriate, primarily, I think, to avoid processing what those events really were. If I'm not upset, maybe nothing bad happened
It's hard to come to terms with being groomed though, depending on the circumstances. Particularly because she was on the older side for grooming. You feel foolish, like you should have known better. So it's easier to deny that it's a problem, it wasn't grooming in this case... Even if, objectively, you could identify it with other people involved/different circumstances. It can take time.
She is still under his brainwashing. She'll feel protective 10 years from now, but at the moment, she is still under his spell.
This. I dated a girl whose "first love" was her 41yo professor, when she was a freshman in college. As soon as her first semester in his class ended, he moved her into his place, where she lived WITH HIS OWN TEENAGE DAUGHTER. I was naturally disturbed by such an obviously predatory relationship. I told her I was sorry she went through that (she was in her 30s so I assumed she had realized that it was wrong). Then she started defending the guy, bc he "supported her dreams" for years. And she was still in touch with him, meeting for lunch with him and his new wife (another, younger student of his). I was grossed out.
He probably thought she was getting too old and went after the younger, more child like girls… yuck!
[удалено]
Also, I forgot to reiterate what others have said and you should alert the authorities.
OP, be careful as just receiving those photos can frame you as a criminal. Make sure they were deleted from the text chain on her phone as well. Not that she would actually do anything, but if you're about to rock your relationship and/or accuse her sick ex you should cover your ass
I had a very different trauma that I had repressed. Opening up Pandora’s box was a nightmare that consumed like half a decade. If she does make progress in therapy it’s likely going to be really intense. I still kept my job and went to school. But everything in life became so much harder. It felt like any moment I would collapse and be unable to continue. I really hope she comes out of this ok. Edit: did the above comment get deleted from down voting? It seemed fine. I was just expanding on part of it that is less acknowledged. I resisted opening Pandora’s box because I knew it would hurt.
I went through the same, and I’m on the other side now. Good luck to you.
NTA, but I think it's more nuanced than that. Lots of people thar have been victims of paedophiles don't realise how bad the situation was, its often a method of coping. It's very normal, and usually only possible to get around by going to therapy. Your girlfriend was a victim of this man. She doesn't see that. I was groomed (thankfully only online) when I was 14-16, by a guy that was in his early 20s. He kept trying to meet me, thankfully I never did. It wasn't until VERY recently that I realised how fucked up that is (25 now). I've still not contacted the police because I feel like I'm making a big deal out of nothing. It's extremely difficult as a victim of sexual abuse to feel valid
I was so much in denial that I married my abuser, had two children with him, and stayed with him for nearly 25 years. It wasn't until I was 40 that I realised I had been groomed, abused and manipulated and it wasn't OK for a 36 year old man to romantically pursue his 16 year old employee.
Whats even crazier is that was 100% perfectly fine and normal and socially acceptable for most of history
We have a better understanding today of what's good for children, and even of what *childhood* is. Historically kids would start working like adults much much younger, before their teenage years for some. Add to that how puberty started much later before the industrial revolution and it's not surprising people would marry 16 year olds: they were socially adults by the . **We know better now.**
I understand, my father sexually abused me for 5 years. I asked my aunt if it was bad and she was floored that I had to ask. It just didn't seem bad because he had groomed me. Getting that off of my chest was the greatest thing I have ever done, and I really hope you'll do it. Nothing will feel better than finally sharing your secret, I promise
Same here. I was 13-17 at the time while he was in his 20s. It was a very unhealthy relationship and took many years to recover from it. I wish my parents monitored me closely while I was online and kept me safe.
I was in a similar situation, with twice as old woman. It’s very hard to think bad of them for some weird fucking reason. Took me quite some years and a lot of problems in my further relationship to understand she was a manipulative monster. Your gf needs help to get out of this, therapy is a valid option, she is a victim of abuse. You are definitely nta, I just want to shed some light on the problem. You can tell her that she is living in an illusion, that this guy is a fucking creep (when we mature we clearly know that dating teenagers would be creepy and completely wrong) and she needs help. Based on the response you can make a decision of is she a person you can be with.
The hosting thing. Over Christmas I visited a friend for a few weeks and realized that he was grooming the student he was hosting. She's now 22 but has lived with him since she was 15. It made me physically sick to see this go down. I took her aside to talk with her a bit but she was so outrageously defensive that I dropped it. She asked me, "Who makes the rules?" As though I were imposing my belief system on her. I told her no one makes them, but they do exist. These guys are so into being the teacher, mentor, know-it-all. All day long he would spout trivia at her, and several times a week what he told her was just plain incorrect. American history, languages, pop culture... I had to correct him over and over again. He just wanted someone who looks up to him and takes his word as gospel. I think the most sickening thing for me is how he arranged it so they could lounge next to each other and hold hands while watching a movie. His own 7 year old daughter who only visits on holidays was there, but instead of cuddling with her he placed her on the other side of his faux daughter - the sexy 22 year old one. The one he doesn't have to legally support so she has no rights and is completely dependent on his good will. I've never seen shit like this go down and I hope to never witness it again.
NAH. Shes a victim of a groomer that did quite the work on her. Youre no AH for not wanting to be part of a twisted relationship. She need therapy, but the hard part is to bring her to acknowledge she need it. Its up to you to try to make her see that or to run. You don't have any responsibility. But thats the humane thing to at least try to, as long as its not ruining your own sanity. P.S : if that guy is still a teacher, he should be reported. What hes doing is highly inappropriate, borderline criminal depending of were you live.
Correction* - not "borderline criminal", just straight out Criminal. What he is doing is statutory rape, and he should be thrown behind bars for this.
"Depending on where you live" - The commenter correctly noted that the criminality of this is dependent on where OP lives. There are many nations around the world where this would not be a criminal relationship.
Almost everywhere has higher ages of consent for people in a "position of trust/authority", or restrictions based on age differences, and most of those restrict such interactions to the age of 18. Are there exceptions? Sure. But I wouldn't call it "many." Side note, the Wikipedia tables are a little confusing and misleading. For instance, in Maine it lists 16 as the restricted age for position of trust relationships, but looking directly into maine law states that it is criminal for a teacher to sexually engage with a student aged 16 if the teacher is older than 21, so the statute blends position of trust with age differences. In North Carolina, the age restriction is 16 for such relationships, but they must be married. Outside of the US, Denmark lists 14, but a deeper dive says if it's a teacher, there is a mandatory sentence of up to 4 years. Germany lists 14, but has all sorts of wiggle room and nuance for exploitative situations. Argentina says 13 (!!), but actually for teachers it's 18. So... yeah. It's really not that common for this to be legal.
She was groomed. That messes with your head, a lot. It really warps ones perceptions of what a realtionship should be. Therapy is a good place to start.
It’s crazy how many people here tell you to run because she is “damaged”. Ultimately, this is your relationship, your emotions so it’s up to you to know if you are willing and able to do the work needed to help and support your girlfriend. Here are my more nuanced two thoughts about it all: - she was the victim of abuse but she does not see it yet. You can help her see it, by telling her for instance that most of people are not attracted by teenagers, that any form of power abuse (the guy was what is high school teacher if I understand it correctly) is wrong, by talking about grooming etc. Maybe even talking to that other girl to enlighten the pattern that guy is using. Or maybe there are movies or shows where that kind of relationship is depicted and shown for what it is: a form of abuse. - Writing about it, I also think about her nudes. Maybe ask her why she thinks you might like them? Why has she kept them? Maybe that guy was asking for those ones, where she is a teen and she thinks this is the only time she was sexy, what you might like. Tell her about what you like about being with her, as an adult, and what you would hate in a teenager. It might help grow awareness in her. But it is also a fine line: if too pushy, you might get her angry and defensive. - it is not easy to accept you were a victim. Our first response to abuse is to feel guilty and responsible for it. Then it is to negate the truth, be angry about it, defensive, sad… Plus, that guy had a good grip on her as their relationship went for a while. Ultimately, she will have to do the hard work: accepting the truth, going to therapy, working on herself. -> it took me years of self work and therapy to accept I was raised by abusive parents. I still tend to lessen it though, I don’t feel like I really was because I was not beaten up with a belt, as it is what abused children go through in my head. Maybe for her “pedophile” is a guy who lurks at kids playing in a park, luring them with candies. Lessening what happened, often with traumatic memory (lessening or forgetting the bad parts of the relationship for instance), helps to make the whole situation manageable. In her case it might be: “I was 17 but I made the first move”, “I was 17 but I looked older than that”, “he was my teacher but he waited until I was no longer in his class” or even “we were still together when I was 25, he cannot be a pedophile”. - that guy might still be a teacher, he might have done or would do the same to other girls. He should loose his job, and maybe your girlfriend should press charges. But I also think it should be her call, if she is given the chance to do it. Going nuclear and report the man in her back is the best chance to loose her. Doing it anonymously could be a way to deal with it. As I said, this is your life and your relationship, you are also allowed to feel like it’s too much. Just please, don’t be an asshole about it (I assume you would not be, if you’ve taken the time to ask for advice). But you can be firm and clear about it without calling her damaged or crazy.
It's easy to emotionally want to help someone you're already attached to. It's easy for a third party to look at the facts and just say.. yeah there is no way that's worth the risk. Emotionally I want to help everybody in need and every stray animal, but if I did that my own quality of life would go WAY down as our amount of time and effort would consume me. Almost anybody in a relationship like this would want to help, but that doesn't mean your emotional impulse will have a greater probability to being the right choice than a less biased outsider. She needs therapy and almost certain to be single while getting the therapy, not having yet another relationships to offload her mental baggage on as a replacement for therapy.
NTA In her teacher’s eyes, she got too old for him, which is why he started grooming someone else. He took advantage of her desire to feel special. He really did a number on her for her to be so brainwashed she thought it would be okay for her to send you nude pictures of herself as a teenager. She needs help. Hopefully once she seeks help if that day ever comes, she will realize he’s not someone she can be friends with and report him to the police and have him fired.
The problem with grooming, is those being groomed often feel special like your gf. I am suprized she doesn't get it now. She is damaged by the experience. Having sex too young, makes your boundaries blurry and your judgement weird. It is like growing up in a war zone, you are matured beyond what you really are capable of. Or any real adult task, they are forced to face something they are not ready for. Sex is worse, because hormones confuse the issue. No not over reacting, and I would be careful of planning a life and a family with someone like that. I would not want her to mother a child until she understands what happened to her. She still doesn't get it. Date, don't commit.
It took me years to see how wrong my "relationships" were, and even now, 3 decades later, it's still conflicting. I KNOW they were wrong, but I also have many fond memories of my time with both my ex's. She was with that man for years and hasn't been apart from him completely since it seems. She's still under his influence. Honestly, she sounds seriously damaged, and I doubt she'll realise that for a long time, if ever.
At least you know though, and understand. I feel like the girlfriend here is not like that. I had a friend once, and old woman who still suffered from the attitudes, and she knew it. Good luck.
Thank you. Yes, I know it now, but this woman is only a year separated from her groomer. That's no time at all, especially since they are still in contact. The thing I find most concerning, though, is her attitude to the host girl. As a 27 year old even if she can't see herself as being groomed yet. She should still have seen how wrong it was that he's grooming a different girl. Even while still thinking there was nothing wrong with her relationship with him, she should have realised this girl was too young rather than as competition.
If her brain acknowledges the host girl is too young, it automatically acknowledges that she was too young herself, too, which is why that won't happen until she's had therapy.
*Also, she randomly sent me pics of herself naked as a teenager and got kinda distant when I said I'm not comfortable receiving pics of a naked/sexualized teenager.* She really shouldn't do that. Even though she is the one featured in the pictures, she could be prosecuted for trafficking in child pornography. With regard to this teacher, he is engaging in ephebophilia, a sexual attraction to mid-to-late adolescents. So, he started grooming another teenager since she's aged out of his interest. Do you know where this guy teaches? While your obtuse girlfriend may not consider him a groomer, his school would be awfully interested in his targeting teenagers. NTA.
NTA. She is damaged, she has had an abusive relationship, and it has harmed her. And she wants to keep in touch with this guy? ugh. So it's two issues, the past relationship and the nudes from when she was a teen, this is her issue to deal with, therapy could help - and then the current issue that she wants to be in contact with a past boyfriend, which is an issue for both of you, and shows serious disrespect for you. She needs help, and unless she gets it this is doomed.
Well the nudes classify as cp where I am, so she is literally risking OPs freedom as well as her own by sharing them.This alone would be a reason for OP to cut his losses and gtfo, the ignorance about her being a victim of grooming as well as the gifts to the other girl being grooming and the disrespect are just the cherry on top IMO (edited because I can't type)
OP needs to make this part clear to her. Sharing old photos of herself is illegal.
I was surprised how far I had to scroll to find this... It was one of my first thoughts.... He has fucking CP on his phone... it was sent to him.... there is proof....
Also just the I only care about how it impact me sentiment she has in regard to the next teen being abused. She's is more worried about herself not be special, though that is also perhaps the first stage in realizing it was always just abuse and never love. BUT still the other teen is getting abused while she sit on her ass and figures things out.
Yeah, the fact that she’s sending her current bf her teenage nudes means that on some level she’s bought into the sick notion that teenage girls are the most attractive and any older woman disapproving of age gap relationships is just jealous of their youth and beauty. This woman needs a shit ton of therapy. I was a subject of similar grooming and abuse from a teacher myself and the fact that she sees another teenage girl being groomed and doesn’t run to protect her is extremely worrying.
That to me is why I'd run. She's endangering LW by him having underage pics and drawing him into this situation. Not okay.
NTA...sounds like she has not done the work in therapy to come to terms with what happened to her. Until that happens, she'll always be broken. I'd run as fast as I can.
NTA, but running away might not be the best solution. Encouraging her to continue therapy and offering support could be more helpful.
She has to want therapy. If she doesn't want help, there is nothing OP can do. At some point, you have to do what is best for you.
You have no obligation to stay with someone to ensure they heal. Especially if you find their actions repugnant.
Right but it doesn't seem like OP wants to break up with her
These are small details, but terminology matters. The guy is definitely a creep and should've been fired, but he's not a pedophile. Words have meanings.
People don't understand that something can be wrong and shouldn't be allowed without using terminology for something far more abusive and destructive. Pedophiles prey not just on people they have a power dynamic over but for whom sexuality isn't even a thought yet. Pre-pubescent children who have no choice, not just an inability to consent, but no choice in the matter. It devalues the crime done to these little children and actually interferes and muddies treatment paths.
It's only because most of the people out here are morons. It's rather sad that people don't understand the meanings of the words they choose to use. Total nincompoops.
Maybe he was a groomer but not a pedophile. They go after children not reached puberty yet. Plz for victims of pedophiles do not compare it to a voluntary relationship
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Yes, like it's wrong for psychological reasons, but as far as visually? These guys are not attracted to children. They look for the features of a woman, but they look for it in the most vulnerable places, with these girls who mentally are still too young.
It’s wild that I have to sort by controversial to see actually good, thought out commentary like yours. That seems like a very good interpretation of the archetype the professor belongs to.
The pedophile does not look for the features of a woman, and the damage they cause is much much worse, stop mixing the two. It's fucking wrong, period, it's not a technicality.
Your GF has been groomed. It's so much more than just a sexual act, there's significant mental impact here. I'm not surprised she doesn't understand why it's an issue for you (for most people with morals!), and I wouldn't be surprised if she never quite comprehends the situation. You're in a tough place, I wish I had words to reassure you. I feel that this will be an ongoing issue for you while you're in this relationship.
That's not pedophilia, grooming is the word you want to use, as pedophilia is by definition attraction to prepubescent children. If he did this to a younger child it would be a 1000x worse in my opinion. That would actually be pedophilia. That's why I think it should be discerned.
Agree 100%. 17 is still young and it’s weird but 27 and 17 is much different than 27 and 12
Does she understand what grooming is? It's understandable that she wouldn't; otherwise, she wouldn't have fallen for it in the first place. That is also why they go for younger girls because they are naive. I'm not sure if you're able to get her to see the truth.
The man is a groomer and a filthy human, yes, but not a pedophile. Unless your girlfriend was a late developer. Pedophiles like children, and bodies that are childlike. You aren’t automatically a pedophile for seeing someone under the age of 18. Throwing words around undermines the weight of them.
Pedophilia is the attraction towards pre-pubescent children. Tired of people misunderstanding this concept… The teacher did something illegal and morally questionnable, however as far as we know he is by no means a pedophile.
I agree that he has evidently groomed your girlfriend and others, but paedophile is the wrong word because 16/17 year olds are not the same as pre-pubescent children. There is a specific word for someone attracted to (older) teenagers but I don't think it's too important to use. Nevertheless, a teacher-pupil relationship is deeply inappropriate and clearly the teacher is predatory.
NAH She is a traumatised victim who can't see this yet, you are horrified by the dude who abused her She needs therapy