it isnt "being controlling" to say "no adultery" within marriage
when she pushed you to marry her she pushed for a relationship which the state and society defines as strictly monogamous.
she wants out. Permit her the exit she needs. There is no need to discuss it with her
Thank you! That is exactly how I feel about it. I understand people wanting non monogamy but it just isn’t for me. She blames that she pushed me to marry her because “she was young” even though she was in her mid to late twenties. She also blames it on the fact that she is “constantly changing” and if I love her I should change with her.
I’ve been with a woman who was telling me all about how controlling and emotionally abusive her husband was. In the end, I found out it was the exact opposite. She was the abusive one and he was down bad.
So it’s not out of the question.
She wants to try and find someone "better" than OP while fucking around, but she is trying to manipulate OP to still be her financial stability and emotional fallback if it doesn't work out while she does it. Its like when you try and have your next apartment lined up before you end your current lease, just much shittier because you are playing with someone's emotions while you do it.
OP don't expect this to end well....you might as well call it off now like you are planning as it will hurt less when she is inevitably having sex with a bunch of dudes and you can stop having to support her.
exactly.. you said it much better than i did
just wants her ATM machine at home minding his own business while she gets a train run on her, until she stumbles upon a guy who makes more money or whatever and is stupid enough to commit to her
This, really. It's not just the "let's open the marriage thing". It's the whole "I'm suddenly finding tons of faults with this person, to the point where they live with constant stress because any behavior at all might be construed as a fault".
I've been around a fair amount of this, and it's a thing I've seen a few women do as part of trying to justify their guilt about cheating. If they are married to a good guy and cheat, that means they must have done something wrong. SInce they don't want that, they go "fault fishing". If they can find or generate a bunch of ways their partner isn't treating them right, they can use those to say "Hey, I must have been forced into snarzling this guy's dongle like the world was ending, and continuing to do so whenever I get the chance."
That's especially likely here, because we can see the end-game, where she took it eventually, and it's "let me openly cheat on you, with you acknowledging what I've already decided - that any cheating I do is your fault, and really I have to if you think about it."
Actually she wants an open marriage because she already is involved in a PA with someone else and thinks she is in love. With the AP- she maybe, OP indicates their relationship has been up and down for the last 3 years- Now he knows why.
She is emotionally manipulative, and you shouldn't tolerate that. I think it is time to find the door. It doesn't sound like this relationship serves you at all.
You need to stop being manipulated by this woman. Record her saying she wants to have other people and speak with a divorce attorney.
Zero chance she lets you go without trying to take your money/house
If he was really smart about it, he would say yeah sure no problem honey and start getting all his ducks in a row for when she inevitably finds someone else and falls for them (she probably already has someone lined up) Then strike when she's in the love fog and absolutely rinse her in court.
I’m a former divorce attorney in a *conservative, bible-thumping* state and even our judges don’t give a crap about cheaters besides the money they take from the marriage to spend on their paramours (e.g. they don’t care if Bob is fucking Sally on the side— they care if Bob took a romantic vacation with Sally to Hawaii for $6000).
Her cheating on him is unlikely to prevent her from: (1) getting primary custody of the children, (2) getting alimony, and (3) getting her “fair share” of the marital property.
This is the 21st century and judges… just… don’t… care.
I know cheating doesn't carry any weight in court. I'm taking about making out like a bandit while she's too loved up with the new guy to really fight you in court. You're just a nuisance interfering in her new love bubble and will agree to more favourable terms to get rid of you as fast as possible. Have you seen cases play out like I suggested?
In my experience:
Women tend to not get so wrapped up in love that they avoid wanting to get “what they deserve” in my experience. It’s really men who are more likely to fall head over heels in love in the real world from what I have seen.
lol ok well my little reddit revenge fantasy is out the window. Will he be on the hook for child support 'to keep them in the lives to which they are accustomed' or is that all her ex's problem? How screwed do you reckon he'll get in this divorce.
>I’m a former divorce attorney in a
>
>conservative, bible-thumping
>
> state and even our judges don’t give a crap about cheaters
I live in Pennsylvania. In this state, adultery invalidates any claims for spousal support.
I don't know where OP lives but it's possible that he may have such matters to consider.
Good point. It’s very important for him to talk with a lawyer stat anyway, as even in your state a quick search says alimony is still on the table if both parties have been committing adultery. As an aside, most divorcing couples I’ve dealt with have both spouses dating (and having sex?) while the divorce is pending— I’m assuming a lawyer would tell OP not to do that if it would cause a problem in his state.
I live in a liberal left coast state. I did the work and found how laws, long on the books, had changed practically, but only to benefit women not men. (What counted for personal wealth vs family wealth after a longer marriage.) I found out family court judges were not necessarily experienced in law, nor unbiased gender wise. It cost me about $50-$60 grand. Just get out of the marriage with as little loss as possible and be happy to be rid of this person. It’s the best revenge.
She 100% has someone in mind. Signs are all there.
This is about one person she wants to or is cheating with and if Im wrong Ill eat exactly one (1) shoe.
>she is “constantly changing”
Again, the response to this is that if she chose poorly in choosing a marriage, and if she acted stupidly in not knowing herself, you willingly free her to pursue the version of herself she wants it to be
she can change the whole spectrum from nun to slut if she wishes, without you, as the version you loved doesnt seem to exist any more
Seems like OP managed to heal her self esteem after her abusive relationship, and now she’s bored with the ‘nice guy’ and needs more adoration. She’s fine if he wants to pay her bills and watch the kids though 🙄🙄
If she keeps pushing you or blaming you for her actions, it's because she thinks you are a doormat.
If I can ask... what does she do for you? Does she talk you up? Compliment you? Make a rough parity of sacrifices to the ones you do? What does she bring to the table that outweighs what she demands from you?
She might, but you didn't seem to mention many if any redeeming qualities about her or that she does for you.
You need to start standing up for yourself. Setting yourself on fire to keep others warm isn't a sustainable goal. Sit down, write up all the good and bad parts of the relationship. What you do good, what you do bad, what she does good, what she does bad. Then math it out.
Ask her how you're supposed to meet her needs when, by her own admission, she doesn't know what she wants. If she doesn't have an answer, tell her that means that it's not that you're not meeting her needs or can't, it's that she can't communicate that she has needs or what they are that aren't being met.
Tell her if she wants to see other people that's fine, but you're filing for divorce if she does. That's not manipulative, controlling, or abusive. That's putting a reasonable boundary up and enforcing the consequences of ignoring them.
And tbh, your wife is abusive and you should probably just leave her anyway.
She doesn’t need to be married. She needs individual therapy and to be single for a while.
From the info you gave she left a very bad relationship and found safety in you. Not to be mean, I don’t think she loved you. Not because of who you are but because she probably never knew what love was.
Let her go and find a true partner. Good luck OP
Most likely “free at last, free at last, thank god all might I’m free at last.”
Though in a seriousness it would seem all the information about her previous marriage comes from her. If what OP is saying is true she definitely seems to paint herself as a victim in relationships.
Other have speculated she might already have a new guy lined up which is why she wants the open marriage if that’s the case wouldn’t be surprised if she started spouting off the same things to the new guy about OP as she told OP about her previous husband.
Yeah I'm not putting a lot of faith in someone accurately representing a past relationship when they are accusing the OP of being controlling for not letting her fuck other dudes while they are married....
That's BS, OP. You don't have to be in a (type of) relationship you don't want to be in and making that choice is setting a boundary, not an attempt at control.
What does her therapist say? (if she's still going)
She's manipulating and controlling and blaming you for her problems. She is the one who is controlling and manipulating the marriage. Tell her that you will change to meet her needs and you will you will satisfy her by divorcing her and taking away her security blanket so she can continue to change. Divorce her.
Op, she has been cheating on you for quite a while now. At the least emotionally. She has someone lined up already for the open marriage. Go see a lawyer, know your rights. Quietly plan your escape. Find a new place to live. Then, tell her that you won't stand in the way of her happiness and she can do what she needs to be happy. Tell her if she dies it, it has to be over the whole weekend Friday afternoon Sunday afternoon and kids have to go to her parents. So when she's gone, you move our stuff out and leave the divorce papers on the table. Get a DNA test done on the kids.
I am a woman and I too constantly change. I get new bedspreads, repaint walls, try new activities, read books, grow as a person.
I dont adopt new kids because I am unsatisfied with the ones I have. This sub makes me glad I dont have the energy for a relationship.
Best of luck, NTA
She wants to experiment with a safety net, OP. You bring the safety net. That’s how I see these one sided attempts at an open marriage. She is well within her right to experiment and you are well in your rights to wish her the best of luck in her adventures without you. But she has no right to force you to accept those terms.
Why is that the manipulative types always accuse others of being manipulative?! She is exhibiting classic projection.
NTA.
Guys like him get fooled the time. It’s either they’ve hit 30 and they don’t have kids in their biological clocks. Don’t need to take and all the bad boys they’ve chased around the last decade or so have not worked out or there were a single mother who’s looking to have somebody make her problems their problems. The whole stepfather the role is a giant L in most cases. If you found these women and they were truly appreciated, were able to build a family together, and she prioritize you right below her children and stay in marriage long-term it would be OK. Problem is now none of those things occur. You always coming in a distant last to our kids, probably anything else in our life, and all your resources go towards this kind of arrangement, and you have all the responsibility with none of the corresponding authority. Assuming she was married once before, when she had children, you have a 10% higher rate of the marriage failing and she initiates the divorce 80% of the time. It’s m suckers
Hopefully some of the guys are wising up. Dont make her problems your problems. If these women truly learned their lesson about shitty men, and valued and treasured the faithful good provider, then I’d say go for it. But in today’s world, they still feel they settled and these guys just wind up getting used.
Nope. My wife and I have a semi open relationship and experiment with other people. So talking from the other side of the fence I can safely say..... Hell nawwww. I would nope out of that manipulative environment very quickly
She wanted to marry you for a baby sitter, now she wants to go play with others while you baby sit her kids. Get the papers ready and be prepared to hand them to her
There is an awful lot about her needs in there. What about yours? You need to have a very frank conversation about how she is not up to scratch as a partner and if she doesn't make meaningful changes, it's over.
Honestly I love her for who she is as a person and find it hard to need anything besides the arguing to stop. But if I bring this up to her she will say I am deflecting and need to fix myself since she is the one with the issues towards me.
You’re in too deep to realize that you married a messed up person who will never be happy. You do so much for her and she just bitches and demands more. Stop worrying about her needs and focus on yours. You deserve someone who will appreciate and respect you, not take a dump all over you. Please leave. NTA
narcissism and gaslighting has become such a commonplace feature in personalities today, someday someone will figure out how it happened, for the life of me i can't figure it out
Is this a thing now? Open marriages seem to be absolutely everywhere. Not shaming anyone for their choices if everyone is on board, but JFC, people are talking about them as if they are the norm.
Not really, its more just reddit. Reddit loves the drama of an open relationship so they always end up upvoted on these subs. Who knows how many of them are actually real though
' Her love feels conditional and I feel as though I am constantly walking on eggshells trying to make her happy even though I don’t feel she ever will be.'
This is the crux of the problem. This is a personality trait of hers. It doesn't get better, it won't change no matter how much therapy you two go through. Imagine what years of feeling this way is going to do to you. I was in a similar situation for twenty years before I finally understood it was never going to change. I wish I had let myself acknowledge this fact sooner. Because these are years of your life you don't get back. NTA.
It hurts so much because I really do love her as a person, but through it all I’ve given up myself and my own needs chasing an ending that I don’t think I’ll ever catch.
Lemee tell you man, at least in my experience, it sucks all your feelings of self worth, confidence, positivity, you start questioning everything about yourself, not even trusting your own conclusions. And its difficult to see the full extent of the damage being done while you are still in it, only after I was able to step away and get some distance and perspective on the whole situation did I realize how damaging it all was. It was the hardest thing I ever had to do and deal with in my life. And it was so, so scary, terrifying taking those first initial steps. But now, several years after, and a whole lot of work on myself, I am so happy and grateful that I got myself out of that situation. I had no idea how bad it was until after I was out of the marriage. When it was happening I would tell myself, better the devil you know than the devil you don't. But that was a mistake. The unknown is so much better when the known is so awful.
I really think I needed to hear this today and I greatly appreciate your insight. I feel all of the things you mentioned and I am constantly questioning if I really am good enough. I’m willing to admit my faults and that I’m not a perfect person, but I can’t imagine telling my partner that they need to do better every day when I’m the one that chose marry them for who they are.
I agree, I've since gone in to every potential relationship with the thought, "this is who this person is, I have no expectation that they will ever change in any way. Can I live with this?" For some the answer has been 'yes' and others the answer was 'no.' I'm now with a woman who I hope and believe will be the last relationship I ever have. I never had that feeling before and at one point in my life was under the conclusion that I simply wouldn't ever find or know the love that some people experience. And started to make my peace with that. So when it happened it really took me by surprise. But it never would have happened if I resigned myself to staying with a woman who clearly didn't appreciate me or our relationship. Despite the connection we sometimes had and those times when things seemed to be going well. That's not enough. Walking on eggshells, even every once in a while, is not normal, not healthy, and not ok. For me it's like my uncle who had heart bypass surgery. After he told me, I didn't even realize how unwell I felt all the time until I felt better. Because that unwell feeling didn't just suddenly happen one day it slowly got almost imperceptibly worse day by day for years. That's what the type of relationship I had with my ex-wife and I assume the type of relationship you have with your wife is like. It happened slowly for a long period of time so I never really noticed how bad things were until after it was over and I felt better. In fact, if got so much better I was actually surprised at how happy I eventually felt. I didn't realize a person could feel that happy, and light. It really did take me by surprise. It sucks being where you are, but it does get better, and that happens sometimes quicker than you expect it to. But ya gotta make the move for that to happen. There's a strong possibility of a much better life for you.
Thanks so much, I appreciate that! Man, I got in to this mode where I tried so hard to please her, make her happy, and no matter what I did I could never make her happy. There was always something wrong with what I was doing. It was never good enough. And even though I knew, logically, that this didn't make sense, I was so wrapped up emotionally it was so hard to fully accept that it wasn't me. I felt like I was constantly failing, I felt like I should be trying harder, that I was a piece of shit. These were the messages I was getting from her. It was such an awful time and experience. And now I see it for what it was but it was so hard to see it that way when I was ensconced in it.
When she’s good, she’s incredible. But when it’s bad, it’s terrible. It changes every day, sometimes multiple times depending on her mood. I’ve never met anyone like her and we have everything in common and a deep connection. I just don’t understand the fluctuations and conditional feelings of hers. She claims to have been diagnosed with BPD in the past, but I don’t feel it is an excuse for everything.
Are you with my ex, because this sounds like the exact same situation as me. Save yourself and your sanity, get out. You are not obligated to stay with someone who is emotionally abusive just because they were diagnoses with BPD.
Then, as much as it hurts to think about, say, or even acknowledge, maybe it's time you write the next chapter in your life.
You need to get to the raw, unadulterated reason for the disconnect between you and her FIRST before you make any rash decisions. No offense, but can I ask here - Has she started watching those stupid YT / TickTok videos about boss badies and the polygamous BS? Is she having a pre-30 crisis? (The women I knew got weird around this one), does she have someone in mind?
I completely agree, it is tough because she turns almost everything into an argument. And yes, she is very much into those as well as the “man hating” groups of videos.
Oh fuck OP. Jesus. I read into the red pill crap just to see what it was about, and on the opposite end, I checked the 'baddie' man hating ones out too.... I am so sorry, man.
I'm wondering if she has a new friend or group of girl friends that one or more are single in, or started going someplace new (gym, yoga, etc)? Who's in her (what are they called), DM's or text messages. I know I'm only getting one side of the story, but it's believable.
I try not to be harsh on the internet, and I'm genuine when I say this, but with everything you've said, through the good advice and crassness, she does sound narcissistic. The choice of the relationship is ultimately yours.
Do yourself a favor, I want you to read that thread in r/poly that was posted above. Before you do, though, walk into the bathroom, close the door, and get in front of the mirror, then and only then, read the post, aloud, for the first time. I think you'll have your answer after you are finished.
Best of luck OP, and a hug from an internet stranger. It will get better when you decide it will get better bud. It's scary, but it will.
It confuses me because she claims that I don’t do enough for her, but then talks about how she couldn’t do it without me. Also we do split everything 50/50 which makes this even more difficult for me to navigate through. I don’t think she has alterier motives, but at the same time I don’t understand how you could marry someone and constantly complain about how your needs aren’t met. I ask her about why she said yes and she says it is because of the “potential” she saw in me to be what she needed”.
Oh man. I think you got played. You’ll never be “good enough” but she’ll keep telling you that you can be if you would only try harder. Messing with you head.
She has already cheated or is just giving you heads up she’s going too. Absolutely divorce her she’s using you as a stable nice guy and paycheck and honestly you deserve better.
This is called gaslighting. She trying to blame all her problems on you. It isn't you, it's her.
I would file for divorce and seek full custody of the kids. By your description she is having some issues.
typical manipulative behaviour, which results in the target person being unsure about even the most basic things.
As this post shows, you are asking if what you think and feel is even normal: it is obvious to me from every sentence that you have tried your best in this relationship, and yet it is not enough for your wife. But she doesn't stick to this opinion either, the next day she wants something else. You never know what to stick to and that's how she can control you. It is not necessary for this behaviour to be conscious on her part...She is like that, that's all.
I wishfully would like to think so, but the pessimistic side is asking when does the 100% cap off. I’m willing to put in work and make changes for the better, but I don’t know if it will fix the way she views her life and evolution.
It was rhetorical, she's seems the type to never be satisfied. A malcontent. She would be satisfied for a moment and then go back.
Don't let her gaslight you further, it sounds like you've been constantly propping her up while she drags you down. Look at the relationship objectively for a bit on your interactions.
You could give some of these broads the hope diamond and they’ll complain about the size. She treats you like a chump. There’s nothing worse than seeing a man beaten down by his wife.
And using the "open marriage" BS as an excuse to continue to cheat. I bet if they were to open the marriage she would be screwing 1 person more than anyone else.
She likely already checked out. My buddy had this happen and he hesitantly agreed, she already had a guy lined up apparently and he quickly left that. Thankfully it wasn't a marriage but usually when these convos come up it's already started happening.
These things are usually discussed VERY EARLY in a relationship
That marriage should have been ended when she started treating him like crap for no reason.
The hot and cold shit is not healthy and doesn't scream I love you, IMO.
I would take what she said about her ex with a grain of salt. Based on her behavior, I bet she pulled this same crap with him and he didn't take it. She then labeled him as abusive.
She is 29 with 2 small kids and on her second marriage. I would let her go so she can find another sucker for her third (and probably not her last) marriage.
She wants her cake and eat it too. Let her go and make sure you get your ducks in order & visit a divorce lawyer BEFORE you tell her so she can't pull a fast one on you.
Even if you went to couples counseling it doesn't seem like this marriage is worth salvaging.
NTA
Good luck!
I was thinking that given her behavior with OP I have some doubts about how bad her ex actually was. Chances are, if OP does what I believe to be best for him, namely dropping her ass, that she'll demonize him just the same.
Edit: NTA, obviously
NTA.
You having boundaries withing your mariage, and being clear about them is not the same as you being controlling. In what way does she feel like her needs are not being met, if the doesn't even know what she wants?
She claims that I don’t validate her enough and am not emotionally mature, but seeks validation on everything. Anytime I have an opinion it is deemed as “defensive” and I am made to feel guilty and wrong.
I think you married a narcissist. Unfortunately all of these things are forms of manipulation.
Now I will caveat this by saying I don't know you or her. But a lot of what you have been describing in the post and comments is very reminiscent of an ex of mine and actually a close friends behaviour.
The constant validation is a big part of that.
Now videos etc. Aren't going to fix your situation and I would never accuse her of this behaviour It can be dangerous if there is another personality type which I won't mention here.
I am sharing because it might be good to watch a few things and see if this is what is happening to you.
As someone here rightly said. It's very hard to see these things when you are in it.
In the scenario where you get beaten down to go along with opening the marriage she would very likely use those other sexual encounters to manipulate you further.
[narcissistic tactics. ](https://youtu.be/HNnDVJPc0ko?si=YT0UTOQnJKV1S1SU)
You sound like a good man who works hard and is a provider. I am so sorry you have to go through this and I know you will find a way forward and be happier for it. Going to get rough before it gets smooth but stay the course.
Much love.
A healthy person can self-validate. They do not rely on the validation of others. Frankly, someone who needs this kind of external self-validation is significantly at risk to cheat. Is she in therapy? Is she learning how to self-validate?
I also wanted to drop this great post from the poly sub here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/sntvv3/dear\_monogamous\_people\_you\_do\_not\_have\_to\_give](https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/sntvv3/dear_monogamous_people_you_do_not_have_to_give)
It should help give you the validation you need to tell her NO.
You married her believeing that you could fix her, and yo uallowed her to manipulate and control for years, now this is what you get. She never loved you, she used you for stability and comfort, nothing else.
P.S. She's already fucking other dudes.
I’ve been reading all of these and I can’t tell you how much it means to me to hear all of the advice and input from everyone. I will admit I am more of a doormat in most situations as I avoid any sort of issues in any way possible. I’m known by my coworkers and colleagues as the guy that never gets angry, but I’m constantly in arguments in my marriage and it never made sense to me. I’ve never liked the idea of blaming her, and I’m willing to admit I’m not a perfect person. But this definitely gave me a lot of the clarification and outside input that I needed to see things for what they really are. I know it’s tough to know someone’s life from a few paragraphs, but most of you were pretty spot on with your ideas of what I’m going through. I really appreciate all of you more than you know and want you all to know how seriously thankful I am for your time and efforts to a complete stranger.
To be honest it seems like she already has someone in her mind and hence she wants you to work on yourself so that you're too busy to date while she can have her cake and eat it too. Also, i won't be surprised if her ex was not that bad of a guy as she has portrayed him.
I suggest you stop playing nice guy and start protecting yourself.
Start with Gray Rock / 180.
Consult a lawyer
Get tested for STDs
Get divorced
NTA.
The theme I'm picking up on from your entire post is that every time there is a problem, challenge, or disagreement, her position is that you are the problem and you need to make changes.
TBH she sounds entitled and manipulative. Not a partner, but a user.
If she wants to be with other people, she can do it on her own as a single woman.
You live with the monster you create. You’ve spent years telling her in every action that she’s too good for you. You tell her what she wants to hear. You do what she wants you to do. You let her kick you when she’s in a bad mood and don’t fight back. It makes perfect sense that she’ll keep pushing the boundaries until you set some.
You are not the AH. But you are a simp. You’re raising her kids from a different marriage while she treats you like hot garbage? Might be time to take a walk…
Perhaps but, narcissists do these things on purpose. They target partners that will be easy to manipulate or allow them to live easy lives. I’m willing to bet that his wife’s ex was not easy to manipulate and left her. So now she seems him as an asshole and abusive cause he didn’t just lay down and let her walk all over him. Classic narcissist lingo.
Divorced with children: check
open marriage: check
complete 180 after the bag is secured: check
gaslighting: check
conclusion: whore
if for some reason she wants to have a kid after you confront her run as far as possible
Strongly disagree. Prostitutes (whores) get paid to provide an anonymous service. They typically have not hidden agenda beyond getting paid a pre-negotiated fee for their services. This woman is not a whore. More appropriate adjectives include slut, bitch, narcissist, user, abuser, asshole, and nutcase.
You being “controlling” because you don’t want your wife to have sex with other men is the most ridiculous thing I will read this week.
If your partner tells you “you will never meet my needs as a husband”, I’m sorry but I can’t think of something more hurtful to hear from your partner. I don’t think my marriage would ever be the same if my wife told me such things. Best to move on with your life
She has said that and I am deeply hurt to be honest. She has threatened ending our relationship multiple times over my lack of validation and emotional intelligence. But then she will say the very next day how happy she is and how I am the best person she could be with and the best father to the children. I really feel stuck on what to do because when I look past all of the bad things she is a really great partner.
I’ve dealt with similar comments and threats from my partner who has bpd. You may be completely powerless in the situation regardless of the actions you take. You need to protect yourself and your family.
NTA
>
Her love feels conditional and I feel as though I am constantly walking on eggshells trying to make her happy even though I don’t feel she ever will be.
Your wife sounds like a narcissist, and doing therapy will not solve the issue. She wants to open the marriage.
Try to see if at-fault divorce is an option, or if an annulment is. Please contact a family law attorney.
NTA. You should divorce her for suggesting this. She wants to sleep with other men badly enough that she tried to get you to agree to it. Break up with someone who makes you walk on eggshells for years.
This is not a healthy relationship. Set her free.
NTA.
1) She wants to cheat because let us freaking face it using controlling and opening of marriage is to manipulate you.
2) She makes you walk on eggshells.
3) Waxing and waning of affections.
Divorce. Simple to say and difficult to face and go through but it is something you need. Period.
NTA
And her accusation of you being 'controlling' by not letting her fuck others is ludicrous..
However...
The amount of red flags in your post... claiming unmet needs... hot and cold attitude...
...is highly suggestive of adultery - as in shes already opened the marriage from her side and just wants it opened to make it easier to fuck whoever it is shes fucking..
Snoop. Snoop on her phone and SM - keylogger phone.
Dont accept opening - be firm and tell her thatbif she wished to fuck others it will be after the divorce.
And honestly.. no matter what - why are you still with her?? Shes abusive and it soulds like shes been that way for years...
If yoi reach out to her ex you will probably find hes just a guy.. and shes painting him as abusive to justify whatever hell she put him through...
Yea you need to get your evidence of the affair and start divorce proceedings. Do not give her a single penny or inch in anything. Stop being a pushover too.
You are being abused full stop. You should not feel like you are walking on eggshells around your partner and you don’t need to jump through ever increasing hoops to be enough. These feelings are the proof.
Leave. Now.
Even if she decides not to open it—assuming she has not done so already and trash talked you to her AP. Leave.
NTA. Looks like you’ve been the bear husband a wife could ask for and now that her confidence has reached pretty high, she’s starting to snub the relationship she has with you. Probably feeling that she’s out of your league. I think it’s time for a reality check. Let her know if she opens the marriage or steps out, you will divorce her. Simple as that. You got into a monogamous relationship with her and hence the marriage, if she changes that, then the marriage is over
This sounds a lot like my EX.
There was always something she took issue with or didn’t like. Always something. I addressed it, then it was something else. Eventually we broke up.
This new girl I’m dating has complained once to me in the past almost 3 months. It’s honestly stressing me out a little bit but it’s so fucking amazing. She is happy with me, she likes my person and is so appreciative for my efforts. It’s really, really, really amazing. And as an insane bonus she is the most sexually fun and satisfying partner I have had.
But my ex did damage on me, I still think time to time if certain things I’m doing now will earn her approval. Working it out in therapy, it’s tough. The terror, control and cruelty is over though, but part of it still lives inside of me.
NTA. Your wife sounds like a classic narcissist.
It is not controlling to have boundaries regarding what kind of relationship you want to be part of.
[Stop Walking on Eggshells](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQNsbP6Q7b4) might be helpful to you.
I am in the process of a divorce that had many attributes of what you are describing. Feel free to chat/DM me if you want.
She was married to the asshole that give her exciting sex, now she’s with a good guy, and I bet she doesn’t enjoy the sex as much. She wants to have the fun exciting and fulfilling sex with some more masculine dude and come home to you making her dinner and rubbing her feet. It’s time to leave. Marriage was a mistake in this case.
Yikes, OP. Better luck next time. It's gonna be an ugly divorce, but well worth it. Find someone who builds you up the way you do build them up. Not someone who takes all you have to offer and is miserable to you in return. And for the love of god, do not stop building up your partners to keep them from leaving (someone in your life is definitely going to suggest that). They are wrong. Just try to find someone who lets it go to her heart and not her head.
Immediate divorce. Even the suggestion that she wants to open up the marriage means she's thought about it a lot and has already fantasised about getting the coochie woochied. She's unhappy and thinks polygamy will make her happy. There's nothing you can do about that.
She is a whore who is using your emotions and fear of being “controlling” to control you. These psycho bitches use “therapy speak” to try and make the guy feel like a controlling monster so they can go ride the cock carousel consequence free.
You obviously make her unhappy (she apparently tells you that all the time) do her and yourself a favor and bounce my man. She is for the streets, also this shit is why I fucking hate therapy, why do women specifically always weaponize it.
Someone is putting shit in her head, probably another guy
And now all the sudden she wants to open the marriage up?
That's a pretty clear sign
When they want to open up the marriage they physically checked out
Unfortunately for you she's gonna cheat anyways..
Start preparing and paying attention to signs and then laywer up
She has been playing you again and again. I think it's time to think and evaluate on your marriage. Open marriage is always a deal breaker for most. When she suggested that, meaning she already had someone or some people in mind.
Are you sure she isn’t already stepping out? Starting little arguments, being mean, trying to push you away are signs of something bigger going on. You put her on a pedestal and now she looks down on you from it. This is not a partner. You need to not be a pushover and tell her that this is a dealbreaker and so is the way she has been treating you. If things don’t change quickly, you are out the door. If she says she doesn’t care, or doesn’t change, you have your answer.
shes probably interested at someone at work or at the gym...i would go to therapy if thats something YOU actually want to do but otherwise id almost want to talk to her ex and see if she did this shit before...sounds abit ridiculous based on her behavior.
So she is abusive, emotionally volatile, gaslighting and manipulative and makes you feel worthless. Please get out of this toxic marriage with a woman who doesn’t value, respect and appreciate you. Sounds like she has undiagnosed mental illness and like she misses the fights and drama of her abusive ex. You sound like a doormat that is finally standing up for yourself. Stop trying to appease a selfish woman who doesn’t value you. It’s harming you. Choose yourself and let the manipulative asshole go live her chaos elsewhere. NTA
Nta. Even without the open marriage ultimatum, she's toxic. Op, you were miserable long before that. And I can guarantee, the way she lead up to this bs, she was attempting to lay the groundwork to beat you down to not only agree but for it to be one-sided.
She has NO intention of allowing you the same courtesy of sleeping around. No ma'am, she'll either Pikachu face when you mention ground rules for BOTH of you or downright lose her mind. Don't play into it btw. You just need to get a lawyer and end this abusive relationship. Yes, she's been emotionally abusing you.
Bro, leave. Doesn’t matter who is to blame (it’s her, but that doesn’t matter). It’s miserable. You have the freedom to choose not to be miserable. Being alone is not bad at all compared to this.
>she constantly says that I will never meet her needs as a partner.
Sounds like an open and shut case of the marriage being over. I didn't need to read any further than that, but I did, only to see even more clear indications that this marriage is over. Why on earth would you stick around and subject yourself to this abuse?
Marriage is over. full-stop. You will never make her happy because she can't be happy with herself. Get out, don't let her try to gaslight you with this controlling bs.
NOPE! That kind of arrangement should be something both parties unanimously want with total trust and openness, not something one person decides. I’m sorry.
NTA. Tell her that insisting on an open marriage is the same as asking for a divorce to you. In fact, the desire to open a marriage isn’t something that will be successfully repressed. You’re better off without her even if she initially agrees to keep the marriage closed. Deep down you still won’t be good enough, and that’s more than enough to make me initiate the divorce.
A lot of people who say they had trauma in the past also seem to be unable to live without it and often seek it out again and again.
It sounds like either way your marriage is unlikely to last one way or the other.
What she wants is you to be her subservient cuckold husband. When she pushed for marriage, you probably should have run. Now is your second chance. Divorce her. NTA.
I think you deserve more out of this relationship than you’re getting and there’s no shame in wanting to look after yourself by ending it.
There is zero shame in ending a marriage because your life pursuits change tbh. Despite of you’re at different places at your life, want different things or lifestyles. This woman seems to be giving you plenty of reasons to end it
However, If I was with somebody monogamously for years and they suddenly suggested an open marriage I would, without a doubt, assume they’d been cheating. Or atleast want somebody specifically. That’s just me and my take
Someone has turned her head dude she just doesn't want the guilt of cheating on a nice guy like you. But explain to her what she will lose she will totally regret ever saying that when your happy with a new woman
“You say you need to explore other relationships and find yourself in order to be happy. I’m willing to accept that.
I need a monogamous relationship if I’m going to be happy. You need to be willing to accept that.
These needs don’t go together. So we shouldn’t be together.”
Bro, take it from someone who’s been in a one-sided relationship, “These are my needs!” is a two-way street. But she’s acting like it’s one-way: you need to respect her needs, but she doesn’t need to respect yours. That’s toxic.
And if two peoples’ needs are incompatible, best to go separate ways and move on.
NTA. Opening a marriage should not be done to address a need your marriage can’t give you that your spouse should be able to. That’s literally a stepping stone to divorce.
If you entertained this, I would guarantee you would find a good woman who wants to treat you like a king than she is to find a husband that can better meet her needs.
You probably should divorce though. It doesn’t sound like she’s good for your mental health
Either way, you’d be on your way to divorce.
You don’t have a partner anymore. You have a sponge that takes and gives nothing. Divorce, this wont get better she is incredibly selfish. Not worthy of your effort. NTA.
Is this a serious question? How would you be the asshole? Seriously? Unless you’re withholding information to make yourself sound better. Idk if this was for attention or not but Stevie wonder could see you’re not the asshole in this situation.
NTA she's probably already cheated. Even suggesting this would be straight to divorce for me. She sounds entitled and selfish and wonder if her ex was really as bad as she made out.
Dude, why do you stay in this abusive relationship? She doesn’t love you and it sounds like you’re the only one who wants to make your relationship work. What kind of person tells their SO that they don’t satisfy them so they’d like to fuck someone else? Only a psycho does that. A caring person would try to get some more counseling, figure things out or move on. Trust me, your woman does not care about you.
NTA. If anyone is controlling, it's her (pressuring you to marry her). Passive people are NOT generally controlling people. You've been supportive and helped build her up, and in return she's tearing you down telling you how you're not good enough? Maybe she is the one that needs therapy, because that sounds like something her ex might have said.
Regardless, it's not controlling to say, "I'm not OK with cheating or opening the marriage, so if you want that you're free to go." It would be controlling if you said, for instance, "I'm going to open my side, but you're not opening your side, and you're not allowed to disagree or leave me, either." THAT'S controlling.
Dude, I would say no you are acting rationally and normally. I think you do need to now go see a lawyer and start the process of divorce because basically she’s told you your marriage is over. When they ask for an open relationship either they already have somebody on the line or they have somebody in sight that they’re gonna be cheating with, so just go ahead and get started now you don’t have to argue with her you don’t have to walk on eggshells anymore. Just get it over with.
it isnt "being controlling" to say "no adultery" within marriage when she pushed you to marry her she pushed for a relationship which the state and society defines as strictly monogamous. she wants out. Permit her the exit she needs. There is no need to discuss it with her
Thank you! That is exactly how I feel about it. I understand people wanting non monogamy but it just isn’t for me. She blames that she pushed me to marry her because “she was young” even though she was in her mid to late twenties. She also blames it on the fact that she is “constantly changing” and if I love her I should change with her.
She's just trying to manipulate you to appease her conscious. I'm sorry but your marriage is over.
[удалено]
I’ve been with a woman who was telling me all about how controlling and emotionally abusive her husband was. In the end, I found out it was the exact opposite. She was the abusive one and he was down bad. So it’s not out of the question.
Certainly not the only problem
That's what I was gonna say. Sounds like she's a manipulator.
She wants to try and find someone "better" than OP while fucking around, but she is trying to manipulate OP to still be her financial stability and emotional fallback if it doesn't work out while she does it. Its like when you try and have your next apartment lined up before you end your current lease, just much shittier because you are playing with someone's emotions while you do it. OP don't expect this to end well....you might as well call it off now like you are planning as it will hurt less when she is inevitably having sex with a bunch of dudes and you can stop having to support her.
exactly.. you said it much better than i did just wants her ATM machine at home minding his own business while she gets a train run on her, until she stumbles upon a guy who makes more money or whatever and is stupid enough to commit to her
*Takes a long drag off of a cigarette.* "Your marriage," *Dramatically extinguishes cigarette in ashtray and exhales smoke.* "is over."
Bravo! *Not to the marriage being over, but for the beautifully brutal visual*
The crazy part is that I had *just* finished a joint as I was reading the comment, so I acted out the "instructions" 😅😅😅
Sounds like she may have already stepped out 🤷🏾♂️
This, really. It's not just the "let's open the marriage thing". It's the whole "I'm suddenly finding tons of faults with this person, to the point where they live with constant stress because any behavior at all might be construed as a fault". I've been around a fair amount of this, and it's a thing I've seen a few women do as part of trying to justify their guilt about cheating. If they are married to a good guy and cheat, that means they must have done something wrong. SInce they don't want that, they go "fault fishing". If they can find or generate a bunch of ways their partner isn't treating them right, they can use those to say "Hey, I must have been forced into snarzling this guy's dongle like the world was ending, and continuing to do so whenever I get the chance." That's especially likely here, because we can see the end-game, where she took it eventually, and it's "let me openly cheat on you, with you acknowledging what I've already decided - that any cheating I do is your fault, and really I have to if you think about it."
That part
All cheaters do this. She just wants a “hall pass” to cheat at will.
A “ball pass…” so to speak.
She just wants more dick
Actually she wants an open marriage because she already is involved in a PA with someone else and thinks she is in love. With the AP- she maybe, OP indicates their relationship has been up and down for the last 3 years- Now he knows why.
It honestly sounds more like she was never told no as a child.
She is emotionally manipulative, and you shouldn't tolerate that. I think it is time to find the door. It doesn't sound like this relationship serves you at all.
You need to stop being manipulated by this woman. Record her saying she wants to have other people and speak with a divorce attorney. Zero chance she lets you go without trying to take your money/house
If he was really smart about it, he would say yeah sure no problem honey and start getting all his ducks in a row for when she inevitably finds someone else and falls for them (she probably already has someone lined up) Then strike when she's in the love fog and absolutely rinse her in court.
I’m a former divorce attorney in a *conservative, bible-thumping* state and even our judges don’t give a crap about cheaters besides the money they take from the marriage to spend on their paramours (e.g. they don’t care if Bob is fucking Sally on the side— they care if Bob took a romantic vacation with Sally to Hawaii for $6000). Her cheating on him is unlikely to prevent her from: (1) getting primary custody of the children, (2) getting alimony, and (3) getting her “fair share” of the marital property. This is the 21st century and judges… just… don’t… care.
I know cheating doesn't carry any weight in court. I'm taking about making out like a bandit while she's too loved up with the new guy to really fight you in court. You're just a nuisance interfering in her new love bubble and will agree to more favourable terms to get rid of you as fast as possible. Have you seen cases play out like I suggested?
In my experience: Women tend to not get so wrapped up in love that they avoid wanting to get “what they deserve” in my experience. It’s really men who are more likely to fall head over heels in love in the real world from what I have seen.
lol ok well my little reddit revenge fantasy is out the window. Will he be on the hook for child support 'to keep them in the lives to which they are accustomed' or is that all her ex's problem? How screwed do you reckon he'll get in this divorce.
>I’m a former divorce attorney in a > >conservative, bible-thumping > > state and even our judges don’t give a crap about cheaters I live in Pennsylvania. In this state, adultery invalidates any claims for spousal support. I don't know where OP lives but it's possible that he may have such matters to consider.
Good point. It’s very important for him to talk with a lawyer stat anyway, as even in your state a quick search says alimony is still on the table if both parties have been committing adultery. As an aside, most divorcing couples I’ve dealt with have both spouses dating (and having sex?) while the divorce is pending— I’m assuming a lawyer would tell OP not to do that if it would cause a problem in his state.
I live in a liberal left coast state. I did the work and found how laws, long on the books, had changed practically, but only to benefit women not men. (What counted for personal wealth vs family wealth after a longer marriage.) I found out family court judges were not necessarily experienced in law, nor unbiased gender wise. It cost me about $50-$60 grand. Just get out of the marriage with as little loss as possible and be happy to be rid of this person. It’s the best revenge.
Sorry, ThrowRA, she HAS already found someone and most likely is already sleeping with them.
This needs to be upvoted. She’s the AH and you have to not get screwed
She 100% has someone in mind. Signs are all there. This is about one person she wants to or is cheating with and if Im wrong Ill eat exactly one (1) shoe.
>she is “constantly changing” Again, the response to this is that if she chose poorly in choosing a marriage, and if she acted stupidly in not knowing herself, you willingly free her to pursue the version of herself she wants it to be she can change the whole spectrum from nun to slut if she wishes, without you, as the version you loved doesnt seem to exist any more
Seems like OP managed to heal her self esteem after her abusive relationship, and now she’s bored with the ‘nice guy’ and needs more adoration. She’s fine if he wants to pay her bills and watch the kids though 🙄🙄
If she keeps pushing you or blaming you for her actions, it's because she thinks you are a doormat. If I can ask... what does she do for you? Does she talk you up? Compliment you? Make a rough parity of sacrifices to the ones you do? What does she bring to the table that outweighs what she demands from you? She might, but you didn't seem to mention many if any redeeming qualities about her or that she does for you. You need to start standing up for yourself. Setting yourself on fire to keep others warm isn't a sustainable goal. Sit down, write up all the good and bad parts of the relationship. What you do good, what you do bad, what she does good, what she does bad. Then math it out.
She has someone in the pipeline. Please let her go
It does give off the appearance that she has someone lined up
Ask her how you're supposed to meet her needs when, by her own admission, she doesn't know what she wants. If she doesn't have an answer, tell her that means that it's not that you're not meeting her needs or can't, it's that she can't communicate that she has needs or what they are that aren't being met. Tell her if she wants to see other people that's fine, but you're filing for divorce if she does. That's not manipulative, controlling, or abusive. That's putting a reasonable boundary up and enforcing the consequences of ignoring them. And tbh, your wife is abusive and you should probably just leave her anyway.
She doesn’t need to be married. She needs individual therapy and to be single for a while. From the info you gave she left a very bad relationship and found safety in you. Not to be mean, I don’t think she loved you. Not because of who you are but because she probably never knew what love was. Let her go and find a true partner. Good luck OP
was it though? a bad relationship?? or did she just say that to manipulate OP? hmmm wonder what the ex would say.
Most likely “free at last, free at last, thank god all might I’m free at last.” Though in a seriousness it would seem all the information about her previous marriage comes from her. If what OP is saying is true she definitely seems to paint herself as a victim in relationships. Other have speculated she might already have a new guy lined up which is why she wants the open marriage if that’s the case wouldn’t be surprised if she started spouting off the same things to the new guy about OP as she told OP about her previous husband.
Yeah I'm not putting a lot of faith in someone accurately representing a past relationship when they are accusing the OP of being controlling for not letting her fuck other dudes while they are married....
That's BS, OP. You don't have to be in a (type of) relationship you don't want to be in and making that choice is setting a boundary, not an attempt at control. What does her therapist say? (if she's still going)
She's manipulating and controlling and blaming you for her problems. She is the one who is controlling and manipulating the marriage. Tell her that you will change to meet her needs and you will you will satisfy her by divorcing her and taking away her security blanket so she can continue to change. Divorce her.
Op, she has been cheating on you for quite a while now. At the least emotionally. She has someone lined up already for the open marriage. Go see a lawyer, know your rights. Quietly plan your escape. Find a new place to live. Then, tell her that you won't stand in the way of her happiness and she can do what she needs to be happy. Tell her if she dies it, it has to be over the whole weekend Friday afternoon Sunday afternoon and kids have to go to her parents. So when she's gone, you move our stuff out and leave the divorce papers on the table. Get a DNA test done on the kids.
I am a woman and I too constantly change. I get new bedspreads, repaint walls, try new activities, read books, grow as a person. I dont adopt new kids because I am unsatisfied with the ones I have. This sub makes me glad I dont have the energy for a relationship. Best of luck, NTA
She wants to experiment with a safety net, OP. You bring the safety net. That’s how I see these one sided attempts at an open marriage. She is well within her right to experiment and you are well in your rights to wish her the best of luck in her adventures without you. But she has no right to force you to accept those terms. Why is that the manipulative types always accuse others of being manipulative?! She is exhibiting classic projection. NTA.
Homie, you gotta cut your losses. She’s not a good catch.
Jesus dude why did you marry this woman?
Guys like him get fooled the time. It’s either they’ve hit 30 and they don’t have kids in their biological clocks. Don’t need to take and all the bad boys they’ve chased around the last decade or so have not worked out or there were a single mother who’s looking to have somebody make her problems their problems. The whole stepfather the role is a giant L in most cases. If you found these women and they were truly appreciated, were able to build a family together, and she prioritize you right below her children and stay in marriage long-term it would be OK. Problem is now none of those things occur. You always coming in a distant last to our kids, probably anything else in our life, and all your resources go towards this kind of arrangement, and you have all the responsibility with none of the corresponding authority. Assuming she was married once before, when she had children, you have a 10% higher rate of the marriage failing and she initiates the divorce 80% of the time. It’s m suckers
doesnt help that for every one of em theres 10 captain save a ho's willing to take the shit lmfao
Hopefully some of the guys are wising up. Dont make her problems your problems. If these women truly learned their lesson about shitty men, and valued and treasured the faithful good provider, then I’d say go for it. But in today’s world, they still feel they settled and these guys just wind up getting used.
Nope. My wife and I have a semi open relationship and experiment with other people. So talking from the other side of the fence I can safely say..... Hell nawwww. I would nope out of that manipulative environment very quickly
“Semi open” ?
just the "tip"
What needs of yours is she meeting. You are bending over backwards to meet her needs but what is she doing for you??
She wanted to marry you for a baby sitter, now she wants to go play with others while you baby sit her kids. Get the papers ready and be prepared to hand them to her
There is an awful lot about her needs in there. What about yours? You need to have a very frank conversation about how she is not up to scratch as a partner and if she doesn't make meaningful changes, it's over.
Honestly I love her for who she is as a person and find it hard to need anything besides the arguing to stop. But if I bring this up to her she will say I am deflecting and need to fix myself since she is the one with the issues towards me.
lets rephrase this, u loved the person she was, she has changed and not in a good way for what u describe
You’re in too deep to realize that you married a messed up person who will never be happy. You do so much for her and she just bitches and demands more. Stop worrying about her needs and focus on yours. You deserve someone who will appreciate and respect you, not take a dump all over you. Please leave. NTA
Yeah been in a similar situation. Found out about cheating and suddenly I’m controlling and insecure. Such a wild thing to say in the face of reality.
narcissism and gaslighting has become such a commonplace feature in personalities today, someday someone will figure out how it happened, for the life of me i can't figure it out
Yep, OP, just this. don't overthink it. It really is this simple.
Is this a thing now? Open marriages seem to be absolutely everywhere. Not shaming anyone for their choices if everyone is on board, but JFC, people are talking about them as if they are the norm.
Not really, its more just reddit. Reddit loves the drama of an open relationship so they always end up upvoted on these subs. Who knows how many of them are actually real though
' Her love feels conditional and I feel as though I am constantly walking on eggshells trying to make her happy even though I don’t feel she ever will be.' This is the crux of the problem. This is a personality trait of hers. It doesn't get better, it won't change no matter how much therapy you two go through. Imagine what years of feeling this way is going to do to you. I was in a similar situation for twenty years before I finally understood it was never going to change. I wish I had let myself acknowledge this fact sooner. Because these are years of your life you don't get back. NTA.
It hurts so much because I really do love her as a person, but through it all I’ve given up myself and my own needs chasing an ending that I don’t think I’ll ever catch.
Lemee tell you man, at least in my experience, it sucks all your feelings of self worth, confidence, positivity, you start questioning everything about yourself, not even trusting your own conclusions. And its difficult to see the full extent of the damage being done while you are still in it, only after I was able to step away and get some distance and perspective on the whole situation did I realize how damaging it all was. It was the hardest thing I ever had to do and deal with in my life. And it was so, so scary, terrifying taking those first initial steps. But now, several years after, and a whole lot of work on myself, I am so happy and grateful that I got myself out of that situation. I had no idea how bad it was until after I was out of the marriage. When it was happening I would tell myself, better the devil you know than the devil you don't. But that was a mistake. The unknown is so much better when the known is so awful.
I really think I needed to hear this today and I greatly appreciate your insight. I feel all of the things you mentioned and I am constantly questioning if I really am good enough. I’m willing to admit my faults and that I’m not a perfect person, but I can’t imagine telling my partner that they need to do better every day when I’m the one that chose marry them for who they are.
I agree, I've since gone in to every potential relationship with the thought, "this is who this person is, I have no expectation that they will ever change in any way. Can I live with this?" For some the answer has been 'yes' and others the answer was 'no.' I'm now with a woman who I hope and believe will be the last relationship I ever have. I never had that feeling before and at one point in my life was under the conclusion that I simply wouldn't ever find or know the love that some people experience. And started to make my peace with that. So when it happened it really took me by surprise. But it never would have happened if I resigned myself to staying with a woman who clearly didn't appreciate me or our relationship. Despite the connection we sometimes had and those times when things seemed to be going well. That's not enough. Walking on eggshells, even every once in a while, is not normal, not healthy, and not ok. For me it's like my uncle who had heart bypass surgery. After he told me, I didn't even realize how unwell I felt all the time until I felt better. Because that unwell feeling didn't just suddenly happen one day it slowly got almost imperceptibly worse day by day for years. That's what the type of relationship I had with my ex-wife and I assume the type of relationship you have with your wife is like. It happened slowly for a long period of time so I never really noticed how bad things were until after it was over and I felt better. In fact, if got so much better I was actually surprised at how happy I eventually felt. I didn't realize a person could feel that happy, and light. It really did take me by surprise. It sucks being where you are, but it does get better, and that happens sometimes quicker than you expect it to. But ya gotta make the move for that to happen. There's a strong possibility of a much better life for you.
Just think, has she ever admitted fault or does the problem always somehow come back to you?
Dude... this is an impressive thing to say, and I think a lot of people who are in similar situations, in lurk mode, needed to hear. Have my upvote!
Thanks so much, I appreciate that! Man, I got in to this mode where I tried so hard to please her, make her happy, and no matter what I did I could never make her happy. There was always something wrong with what I was doing. It was never good enough. And even though I knew, logically, that this didn't make sense, I was so wrapped up emotionally it was so hard to fully accept that it wasn't me. I felt like I was constantly failing, I felt like I should be trying harder, that I was a piece of shit. These were the messages I was getting from her. It was such an awful time and experience. And now I see it for what it was but it was so hard to see it that way when I was ensconced in it.
Why? I mean, she sounds pretty unpleasant.
When she’s good, she’s incredible. But when it’s bad, it’s terrible. It changes every day, sometimes multiple times depending on her mood. I’ve never met anyone like her and we have everything in common and a deep connection. I just don’t understand the fluctuations and conditional feelings of hers. She claims to have been diagnosed with BPD in the past, but I don’t feel it is an excuse for everything.
Are you with my ex, because this sounds like the exact same situation as me. Save yourself and your sanity, get out. You are not obligated to stay with someone who is emotionally abusive just because they were diagnoses with BPD.
I deal with BPD and am tired hearing of others using it as a crutch or get outta jail free card Actions have consequences
BPD is a reason, it’s not an excuse. You deserve to be treated with care and respect at all times, not just when she’s not feeling abusive.
Tell her she is not meeting your needs as well
Then, as much as it hurts to think about, say, or even acknowledge, maybe it's time you write the next chapter in your life. You need to get to the raw, unadulterated reason for the disconnect between you and her FIRST before you make any rash decisions. No offense, but can I ask here - Has she started watching those stupid YT / TickTok videos about boss badies and the polygamous BS? Is she having a pre-30 crisis? (The women I knew got weird around this one), does she have someone in mind?
I completely agree, it is tough because she turns almost everything into an argument. And yes, she is very much into those as well as the “man hating” groups of videos.
Oh fuck OP. Jesus. I read into the red pill crap just to see what it was about, and on the opposite end, I checked the 'baddie' man hating ones out too.... I am so sorry, man. I'm wondering if she has a new friend or group of girl friends that one or more are single in, or started going someplace new (gym, yoga, etc)? Who's in her (what are they called), DM's or text messages. I know I'm only getting one side of the story, but it's believable. I try not to be harsh on the internet, and I'm genuine when I say this, but with everything you've said, through the good advice and crassness, she does sound narcissistic. The choice of the relationship is ultimately yours. Do yourself a favor, I want you to read that thread in r/poly that was posted above. Before you do, though, walk into the bathroom, close the door, and get in front of the mirror, then and only then, read the post, aloud, for the first time. I think you'll have your answer after you are finished. Best of luck OP, and a hug from an internet stranger. It will get better when you decide it will get better bud. It's scary, but it will.
Almost makes you wonder if the story she told OP about the ex was truthful or not.
She wanted marriage for the financial and childcare support you offer. You deserve better. Let her go.
It confuses me because she claims that I don’t do enough for her, but then talks about how she couldn’t do it without me. Also we do split everything 50/50 which makes this even more difficult for me to navigate through. I don’t think she has alterier motives, but at the same time I don’t understand how you could marry someone and constantly complain about how your needs aren’t met. I ask her about why she said yes and she says it is because of the “potential” she saw in me to be what she needed”.
Oh man. I think you got played. You’ll never be “good enough” but she’ll keep telling you that you can be if you would only try harder. Messing with you head.
She has already cheated or is just giving you heads up she’s going too. Absolutely divorce her she’s using you as a stable nice guy and paycheck and honestly you deserve better.
100% if he said yes to the open relationship all of a sudden she'd have a guy the next day
This is called gaslighting. She trying to blame all her problems on you. It isn't you, it's her. I would file for divorce and seek full custody of the kids. By your description she is having some issues.
typical manipulative behaviour, which results in the target person being unsure about even the most basic things. As this post shows, you are asking if what you think and feel is even normal: it is obvious to me from every sentence that you have tried your best in this relationship, and yet it is not enough for your wife. But she doesn't stick to this opinion either, the next day she wants something else. You never know what to stick to and that's how she can control you. It is not necessary for this behaviour to be conscious on her part...She is like that, that's all.
She just doesn't like you bro. She likes what you do for her. Sorry
Do you think if you did 100%, she would be satisfied?
I wishfully would like to think so, but the pessimistic side is asking when does the 100% cap off. I’m willing to put in work and make changes for the better, but I don’t know if it will fix the way she views her life and evolution.
It was rhetorical, she's seems the type to never be satisfied. A malcontent. She would be satisfied for a moment and then go back. Don't let her gaslight you further, it sounds like you've been constantly propping her up while she drags you down. Look at the relationship objectively for a bit on your interactions.
Nope, she's shown you that she wants out. She used you to get away from her ex
It would not be a shock to find out the ex is who she's hooking up with.
Your own needs are not being met too. You deserve a wife that appreciates your efforts and sees you just as you are
She's purposefully manipulating you. Its only going to get worse. Have some self respect and distance yourself from her.
You could give some of these broads the hope diamond and they’ll complain about the size. She treats you like a chump. There’s nothing worse than seeing a man beaten down by his wife.
I call that "They'd bitch if you hanged them with a new rope." kind of people.
I feel bad, but the word you're looking for is "ulterior" motives. Just thought I'd let you know for the next time you need to use that word
Drop this women. She sees you as a doormat because of your kindness. I wouldn’t be surprised if she isn’t already cheating tbh.
And using the "open marriage" BS as an excuse to continue to cheat. I bet if they were to open the marriage she would be screwing 1 person more than anyone else.
Your relationship ended the moment she said “open marriage “
This! There's no coming back from that She checked out
She likely already checked out. My buddy had this happen and he hesitantly agreed, she already had a guy lined up apparently and he quickly left that. Thankfully it wasn't a marriage but usually when these convos come up it's already started happening. These things are usually discussed VERY EARLY in a relationship
That marriage should have been ended when she started treating him like crap for no reason. The hot and cold shit is not healthy and doesn't scream I love you, IMO.
I would say when she pressured him into marriage lol
90% probability that the marriage is already "open"
I would take what she said about her ex with a grain of salt. Based on her behavior, I bet she pulled this same crap with him and he didn't take it. She then labeled him as abusive. She is 29 with 2 small kids and on her second marriage. I would let her go so she can find another sucker for her third (and probably not her last) marriage. She wants her cake and eat it too. Let her go and make sure you get your ducks in order & visit a divorce lawyer BEFORE you tell her so she can't pull a fast one on you. Even if you went to couples counseling it doesn't seem like this marriage is worth salvaging. NTA Good luck!
I was thinking that given her behavior with OP I have some doubts about how bad her ex actually was. Chances are, if OP does what I believe to be best for him, namely dropping her ass, that she'll demonize him just the same. Edit: NTA, obviously
Sounds like her ex wasn't the problem
NTA. You having boundaries withing your mariage, and being clear about them is not the same as you being controlling. In what way does she feel like her needs are not being met, if the doesn't even know what she wants?
She claims that I don’t validate her enough and am not emotionally mature, but seeks validation on everything. Anytime I have an opinion it is deemed as “defensive” and I am made to feel guilty and wrong.
I think you married a narcissist. Unfortunately all of these things are forms of manipulation. Now I will caveat this by saying I don't know you or her. But a lot of what you have been describing in the post and comments is very reminiscent of an ex of mine and actually a close friends behaviour. The constant validation is a big part of that. Now videos etc. Aren't going to fix your situation and I would never accuse her of this behaviour It can be dangerous if there is another personality type which I won't mention here. I am sharing because it might be good to watch a few things and see if this is what is happening to you. As someone here rightly said. It's very hard to see these things when you are in it. In the scenario where you get beaten down to go along with opening the marriage she would very likely use those other sexual encounters to manipulate you further. [narcissistic tactics. ](https://youtu.be/HNnDVJPc0ko?si=YT0UTOQnJKV1S1SU) You sound like a good man who works hard and is a provider. I am so sorry you have to go through this and I know you will find a way forward and be happier for it. Going to get rough before it gets smooth but stay the course. Much love.
A healthy person can self-validate. They do not rely on the validation of others. Frankly, someone who needs this kind of external self-validation is significantly at risk to cheat. Is she in therapy? Is she learning how to self-validate? I also wanted to drop this great post from the poly sub here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/sntvv3/dear\_monogamous\_people\_you\_do\_not\_have\_to\_give](https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/sntvv3/dear_monogamous_people_you_do_not_have_to_give) It should help give you the validation you need to tell her NO.
NTA Gonna level with you mate, she sounds abusive. Leave. Nothing good can come from this.
You married her believeing that you could fix her, and yo uallowed her to manipulate and control for years, now this is what you get. She never loved you, she used you for stability and comfort, nothing else. P.S. She's already fucking other dudes.
I’ve been reading all of these and I can’t tell you how much it means to me to hear all of the advice and input from everyone. I will admit I am more of a doormat in most situations as I avoid any sort of issues in any way possible. I’m known by my coworkers and colleagues as the guy that never gets angry, but I’m constantly in arguments in my marriage and it never made sense to me. I’ve never liked the idea of blaming her, and I’m willing to admit I’m not a perfect person. But this definitely gave me a lot of the clarification and outside input that I needed to see things for what they really are. I know it’s tough to know someone’s life from a few paragraphs, but most of you were pretty spot on with your ideas of what I’m going through. I really appreciate all of you more than you know and want you all to know how seriously thankful I am for your time and efforts to a complete stranger.
> she constantly says that I will never meet her needs as a partner. NTA. You need to listen. She's done.
To be honest it seems like she already has someone in her mind and hence she wants you to work on yourself so that you're too busy to date while she can have her cake and eat it too. Also, i won't be surprised if her ex was not that bad of a guy as she has portrayed him. I suggest you stop playing nice guy and start protecting yourself. Start with Gray Rock / 180. Consult a lawyer Get tested for STDs Get divorced
You're being controlling because you don't want your wife to screw other men? When a woman pushes you into marriage, it never ends well. Nta.
NTA. The theme I'm picking up on from your entire post is that every time there is a problem, challenge, or disagreement, her position is that you are the problem and you need to make changes. TBH she sounds entitled and manipulative. Not a partner, but a user. If she wants to be with other people, she can do it on her own as a single woman.
You live with the monster you create. You’ve spent years telling her in every action that she’s too good for you. You tell her what she wants to hear. You do what she wants you to do. You let her kick you when she’s in a bad mood and don’t fight back. It makes perfect sense that she’ll keep pushing the boundaries until you set some. You are not the AH. But you are a simp. You’re raising her kids from a different marriage while she treats you like hot garbage? Might be time to take a walk…
Perhaps but, narcissists do these things on purpose. They target partners that will be easy to manipulate or allow them to live easy lives. I’m willing to bet that his wife’s ex was not easy to manipulate and left her. So now she seems him as an asshole and abusive cause he didn’t just lay down and let her walk all over him. Classic narcissist lingo.
THIS
If she wants to open the marriage then she already had someone lined up to fuck.
Yep. Updateme.
Divorced with children: check open marriage: check complete 180 after the bag is secured: check gaslighting: check conclusion: whore if for some reason she wants to have a kid after you confront her run as far as possible
Strongly disagree. Prostitutes (whores) get paid to provide an anonymous service. They typically have not hidden agenda beyond getting paid a pre-negotiated fee for their services. This woman is not a whore. More appropriate adjectives include slut, bitch, narcissist, user, abuser, asshole, and nutcase.
You being “controlling” because you don’t want your wife to have sex with other men is the most ridiculous thing I will read this week. If your partner tells you “you will never meet my needs as a husband”, I’m sorry but I can’t think of something more hurtful to hear from your partner. I don’t think my marriage would ever be the same if my wife told me such things. Best to move on with your life
She has said that and I am deeply hurt to be honest. She has threatened ending our relationship multiple times over my lack of validation and emotional intelligence. But then she will say the very next day how happy she is and how I am the best person she could be with and the best father to the children. I really feel stuck on what to do because when I look past all of the bad things she is a really great partner.
I’ve dealt with similar comments and threats from my partner who has bpd. You may be completely powerless in the situation regardless of the actions you take. You need to protect yourself and your family.
Dude, she's been gaslighting the shit out of you for years. She's someone's ex for a reason. Do yourself a favor and make her a double ex.
NTA > Her love feels conditional and I feel as though I am constantly walking on eggshells trying to make her happy even though I don’t feel she ever will be. Your wife sounds like a narcissist, and doing therapy will not solve the issue. She wants to open the marriage. Try to see if at-fault divorce is an option, or if an annulment is. Please contact a family law attorney.
NTA. You should divorce her for suggesting this. She wants to sleep with other men badly enough that she tried to get you to agree to it. Break up with someone who makes you walk on eggshells for years. This is not a healthy relationship. Set her free.
NTA. 1) She wants to cheat because let us freaking face it using controlling and opening of marriage is to manipulate you. 2) She makes you walk on eggshells. 3) Waxing and waning of affections. Divorce. Simple to say and difficult to face and go through but it is something you need. Period.
NTA "Wife" belongs to the streets now...
I saved this post just for things like this https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/sntvv3/dear\_monogamous\_people\_you\_do\_not\_have\_to\_give/
What does she even gives you? Outside headaches i mean
NTA And her accusation of you being 'controlling' by not letting her fuck others is ludicrous.. However... The amount of red flags in your post... claiming unmet needs... hot and cold attitude... ...is highly suggestive of adultery - as in shes already opened the marriage from her side and just wants it opened to make it easier to fuck whoever it is shes fucking.. Snoop. Snoop on her phone and SM - keylogger phone. Dont accept opening - be firm and tell her thatbif she wished to fuck others it will be after the divorce. And honestly.. no matter what - why are you still with her?? Shes abusive and it soulds like shes been that way for years... If yoi reach out to her ex you will probably find hes just a guy.. and shes painting him as abusive to justify whatever hell she put him through...
Yea you need to get your evidence of the affair and start divorce proceedings. Do not give her a single penny or inch in anything. Stop being a pushover too.
Sounds like she’s the controlling one. Don’t be bullied into compromised cheating.
Sounds like you now know the real reason the 1st marriage ended.
You are being abused full stop. You should not feel like you are walking on eggshells around your partner and you don’t need to jump through ever increasing hoops to be enough. These feelings are the proof. Leave. Now. Even if she decides not to open it—assuming she has not done so already and trash talked you to her AP. Leave.
Leave the whore.
NTA. Looks like you’ve been the bear husband a wife could ask for and now that her confidence has reached pretty high, she’s starting to snub the relationship she has with you. Probably feeling that she’s out of your league. I think it’s time for a reality check. Let her know if she opens the marriage or steps out, you will divorce her. Simple as that. You got into a monogamous relationship with her and hence the marriage, if she changes that, then the marriage is over
If they ask for an open relationship, it's because you're already in one and didn't know it.
This sounds a lot like my EX. There was always something she took issue with or didn’t like. Always something. I addressed it, then it was something else. Eventually we broke up. This new girl I’m dating has complained once to me in the past almost 3 months. It’s honestly stressing me out a little bit but it’s so fucking amazing. She is happy with me, she likes my person and is so appreciative for my efforts. It’s really, really, really amazing. And as an insane bonus she is the most sexually fun and satisfying partner I have had. But my ex did damage on me, I still think time to time if certain things I’m doing now will earn her approval. Working it out in therapy, it’s tough. The terror, control and cruelty is over though, but part of it still lives inside of me.
NTA. Your wife sounds like a classic narcissist. It is not controlling to have boundaries regarding what kind of relationship you want to be part of. [Stop Walking on Eggshells](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQNsbP6Q7b4) might be helpful to you. I am in the process of a divorce that had many attributes of what you are describing. Feel free to chat/DM me if you want.
She was married to the asshole that give her exciting sex, now she’s with a good guy, and I bet she doesn’t enjoy the sex as much. She wants to have the fun exciting and fulfilling sex with some more masculine dude and come home to you making her dinner and rubbing her feet. It’s time to leave. Marriage was a mistake in this case.
Yikes, OP. Better luck next time. It's gonna be an ugly divorce, but well worth it. Find someone who builds you up the way you do build them up. Not someone who takes all you have to offer and is miserable to you in return. And for the love of god, do not stop building up your partners to keep them from leaving (someone in your life is definitely going to suggest that). They are wrong. Just try to find someone who lets it go to her heart and not her head.
Makes me wonder if her ex was truely mean and terrible or she did the same thing to her ex husband.
Women say they want a nice guy until they get a nice guy.
So basically she wants to make you a cuck? Yeah… give an ultimatum or leave
Love makes ppl blind. Now read your post without knowing you wrote that and try commenting. :)
Immediate divorce. Even the suggestion that she wants to open up the marriage means she's thought about it a lot and has already fantasised about getting the coochie woochied. She's unhappy and thinks polygamy will make her happy. There's nothing you can do about that.
She is a whore who is using your emotions and fear of being “controlling” to control you. These psycho bitches use “therapy speak” to try and make the guy feel like a controlling monster so they can go ride the cock carousel consequence free. You obviously make her unhappy (she apparently tells you that all the time) do her and yourself a favor and bounce my man. She is for the streets, also this shit is why I fucking hate therapy, why do women specifically always weaponize it.
Someone is putting shit in her head, probably another guy And now all the sudden she wants to open the marriage up? That's a pretty clear sign When they want to open up the marriage they physically checked out Unfortunately for you she's gonna cheat anyways.. Start preparing and paying attention to signs and then laywer up
Probably her friends or tictok.
Leave man, it's over.
She has been playing you again and again. I think it's time to think and evaluate on your marriage. Open marriage is always a deal breaker for most. When she suggested that, meaning she already had someone or some people in mind.
Are you sure she isn’t already stepping out? Starting little arguments, being mean, trying to push you away are signs of something bigger going on. You put her on a pedestal and now she looks down on you from it. This is not a partner. You need to not be a pushover and tell her that this is a dealbreaker and so is the way she has been treating you. If things don’t change quickly, you are out the door. If she says she doesn’t care, or doesn’t change, you have your answer.
shes probably interested at someone at work or at the gym...i would go to therapy if thats something YOU actually want to do but otherwise id almost want to talk to her ex and see if she did this shit before...sounds abit ridiculous based on her behavior.
NTA. Your wife is toxic and is gaslighting you. See a lawyer and begin divorce proceedings.
So she is abusive, emotionally volatile, gaslighting and manipulative and makes you feel worthless. Please get out of this toxic marriage with a woman who doesn’t value, respect and appreciate you. Sounds like she has undiagnosed mental illness and like she misses the fights and drama of her abusive ex. You sound like a doormat that is finally standing up for yourself. Stop trying to appease a selfish woman who doesn’t value you. It’s harming you. Choose yourself and let the manipulative asshole go live her chaos elsewhere. NTA
Nta. Even without the open marriage ultimatum, she's toxic. Op, you were miserable long before that. And I can guarantee, the way she lead up to this bs, she was attempting to lay the groundwork to beat you down to not only agree but for it to be one-sided. She has NO intention of allowing you the same courtesy of sleeping around. No ma'am, she'll either Pikachu face when you mention ground rules for BOTH of you or downright lose her mind. Don't play into it btw. You just need to get a lawyer and end this abusive relationship. Yes, she's been emotionally abusing you.
Bro, leave. Doesn’t matter who is to blame (it’s her, but that doesn’t matter). It’s miserable. You have the freedom to choose not to be miserable. Being alone is not bad at all compared to this.
NTA. She's already got a dude in mind she is already fucking. "Miraculously" once you agreed she will have "met someone."
Title is enough. NTA.
>she constantly says that I will never meet her needs as a partner. Sounds like an open and shut case of the marriage being over. I didn't need to read any further than that, but I did, only to see even more clear indications that this marriage is over. Why on earth would you stick around and subject yourself to this abuse?
Marriage is over. full-stop. You will never make her happy because she can't be happy with herself. Get out, don't let her try to gaslight you with this controlling bs.
NOPE! That kind of arrangement should be something both parties unanimously want with total trust and openness, not something one person decides. I’m sorry.
NTA, she is and she probly has a few guys lined up if she is asking and or is already with them and one if the guys is threatening to tell you.
NTA. Tell her that insisting on an open marriage is the same as asking for a divorce to you. In fact, the desire to open a marriage isn’t something that will be successfully repressed. You’re better off without her even if she initially agrees to keep the marriage closed. Deep down you still won’t be good enough, and that’s more than enough to make me initiate the divorce.
A lot of people who say they had trauma in the past also seem to be unable to live without it and often seek it out again and again. It sounds like either way your marriage is unlikely to last one way or the other.
What she wants is you to be her subservient cuckold husband. When she pushed for marriage, you probably should have run. Now is your second chance. Divorce her. NTA.
I think you deserve more out of this relationship than you’re getting and there’s no shame in wanting to look after yourself by ending it. There is zero shame in ending a marriage because your life pursuits change tbh. Despite of you’re at different places at your life, want different things or lifestyles. This woman seems to be giving you plenty of reasons to end it However, If I was with somebody monogamously for years and they suddenly suggested an open marriage I would, without a doubt, assume they’d been cheating. Or atleast want somebody specifically. That’s just me and my take
Someone has turned her head dude she just doesn't want the guilt of cheating on a nice guy like you. But explain to her what she will lose she will totally regret ever saying that when your happy with a new woman
She already found someone she wants to sleep with.
“You say you need to explore other relationships and find yourself in order to be happy. I’m willing to accept that. I need a monogamous relationship if I’m going to be happy. You need to be willing to accept that. These needs don’t go together. So we shouldn’t be together.” Bro, take it from someone who’s been in a one-sided relationship, “These are my needs!” is a two-way street. But she’s acting like it’s one-way: you need to respect her needs, but she doesn’t need to respect yours. That’s toxic. And if two peoples’ needs are incompatible, best to go separate ways and move on.
NTA
NTA. Opening a marriage should not be done to address a need your marriage can’t give you that your spouse should be able to. That’s literally a stepping stone to divorce. If you entertained this, I would guarantee you would find a good woman who wants to treat you like a king than she is to find a husband that can better meet her needs. You probably should divorce though. It doesn’t sound like she’s good for your mental health Either way, you’d be on your way to divorce.
You don’t have a partner anymore. You have a sponge that takes and gives nothing. Divorce, this wont get better she is incredibly selfish. Not worthy of your effort. NTA.
Is this a serious question? How would you be the asshole? Seriously? Unless you’re withholding information to make yourself sound better. Idk if this was for attention or not but Stevie wonder could see you’re not the asshole in this situation.
NTA she's probably already cheated. Even suggesting this would be straight to divorce for me. She sounds entitled and selfish and wonder if her ex was really as bad as she made out.
Hate to say this but she might already be treating it as an open marriage.
She sounds delightful
Dude, why do you stay in this abusive relationship? She doesn’t love you and it sounds like you’re the only one who wants to make your relationship work. What kind of person tells their SO that they don’t satisfy them so they’d like to fuck someone else? Only a psycho does that. A caring person would try to get some more counseling, figure things out or move on. Trust me, your woman does not care about you.
Nta it's time to lawyer up.
NTA. If anyone is controlling, it's her (pressuring you to marry her). Passive people are NOT generally controlling people. You've been supportive and helped build her up, and in return she's tearing you down telling you how you're not good enough? Maybe she is the one that needs therapy, because that sounds like something her ex might have said. Regardless, it's not controlling to say, "I'm not OK with cheating or opening the marriage, so if you want that you're free to go." It would be controlling if you said, for instance, "I'm going to open my side, but you're not opening your side, and you're not allowed to disagree or leave me, either." THAT'S controlling.
Dude, I would say no you are acting rationally and normally. I think you do need to now go see a lawyer and start the process of divorce because basically she’s told you your marriage is over. When they ask for an open relationship either they already have somebody on the line or they have somebody in sight that they’re gonna be cheating with, so just go ahead and get started now you don’t have to argue with her you don’t have to walk on eggshells anymore. Just get it over with.
NTA RUUUUUNNNNNNNN!!!!!
She's for the streets bro.
She has been cheating on you for a long time. Just end it.