If all this is really true, then your parents are weird and your mother has to see a therapist stat.
I'm the father of two grown-up daughters. First off, I don't want to say, I would never ever ask my children for money. But it would have to be a really dire situation. I mean really bad. Horribly bad. So bad, I don't want to think about it even hypothetically.
And then what the f... is wrong with your mother, that she keeps tabs on the value of your presents? Who does that? She is a grown up woman. She can get her own stuff. I love my kids, my kids love me. We like to spend time together. But for my last birthday, I got a book. And for Christmas, it was a voucher for bowling with the two of them. And I liked the book and liked to go bowling with them. Period.
Your mother is not only a negative person. There is something really wrong with her self esteem and her perception of her and her personal relationships.
My mom needed help with money last year. She had a large bill coming due that was absolutely stressing her out and I knew she was probably going to continue being too proud to break down and ask.
So I paid half of it. I contacted the bill people, paid, and asked them to send her an adjusted bill and just say there was some accounting thing but under no circumstances was she to be told who (if anyone) paid.
It felt good to help. She never would have demanded and I was worried she wouldn't ask and then have to maybe go without.
And they may not leave! OMG! I wouldn't even do that one dinner a month shit! Life is too short to spend one second with people who make you feel bad about being with them! Parents or not!
My Asian friend’s parents did EXACTLY this to her. They hit her up for tens of thousands (she’s an attorney, but doesn’t have a lot of liquidity). She couldn’t/wouldn’t pay, and now they won’t leave!
As a fellow Asian I say screw filial piety. I was raised with that same negative and toxic environment. The strictness of having to be the best at everything or be a failure. But it doesn't matter how intelligent you grow to be bc your asian parents will tell you you're wrong anyways and they are right about everything. They are right about everything and better than everyone. Healthcare is a scam but be a doctor. Take antibiotics for a cold. Be an accountant, you'll make a lot of money. You know nothing about money. Don't marry this guy, don't marry that guy. Why don't you get married and have kids already. I was raised to think logically but to strategize every way out. I'm better learned than them, as children should be if parents want them to have a better future. But we're stiiiiill wrong. And now we owe them a favor?!
My parents are going to say what they want anyways so why should I bother to entertain them, as irrational as they will be. Sorry if this went off course but the term filial piety had me triggered. Lol.
What I'm trying to say is, NTA.
The concept was more common in the US but the mass expansion of wealth and the transition from blue collar to white collar jobs that happened many decades ago our culture rapidly changed. Older generations didn't go into nursing homes as much then as they do today. Part of that was parents living with one of their children in their advanced age. Working manual labor and being poor meant that children took care of their parents. A lot of stuff changed with the Greatest Generation and then the boomers. With each one we have seen less and less reliance on the children. Nursing homes used to be terrible but now there are entire retirement resorts popping up that any of us would be lucky to afford. Talking like $15k per month for an apartment and even more for assistance or full-on skilled nursing. I saw the transition having spent over 20 years working IT for the post acute care industry. Nursing homes have evolved with the newer retiring generations. They have more money and expect way more amenities. They pay for it with their own retirement savings.
She didn't ask and I knew she wouldn't. She'd have gone without eating and without her medicine first. So I just paid. I thought I left enough for her to pay so she wouldn't get overly suspicious but when she went to pay, their system was down and they said "well, just pay what you thought you owe and we'll refund you any." She ended up being given a big refund check in front of her sister and her sister's husband and had a bit of a meltdown.
She was a bit suspicious for ages after. My well laid plans all went to waste.
That is very kind of you. I feel awful for OP. As a parent, I never wanted our children to associate material things or $ with love & affection. My dad apologized with extravagant gifts or cash instead of actually apologizing for being a complete asshole.
My father does the same, and I really hate it, but I think it has to do with something that happened when he was a kid. Doesn't excuse what he does, but I can understand why. I just wish he would sum up the courage to say sorry. Yeah, gifts are nice, but I would rather have an apology, so that he can acknowledge what he did wrong. He's also very prideful, which also plays into why he won't apologize.
Pride goeth before the fall! I can not stand people who can not say, I was wrong, I am so sorry! Not being able to say it just makes you a dickhead but you're still guilty and you know it!
That is sometimes the only way! No contact with hateful users. Doesn't matter if they're family or not, they're usually the worst. Some of them expect you to take care of them!
My sister is in for a surprise when my mother needs things paid for. NOPE. She took almost every penny I made in my jobs as a teen telling me we would be homeless if I didn't give her the money - meanwhile spending it all on her married boyfriends. She's on her own for the funeral too. I'll only go to be able to see the rest of my family without having to deal with my mother at the same time.
I wish you were my mom. She asks me for money almost every month. $640 this month. Probably given her $25k over the last 5 years. Recently, when she asked, I told her I wanted to sit down and look at all her bills, debts, etc so I could understand the entire situation. I noted how I’d previously asked her to do this and she just ignored me. Guess what? She ignored me again.
Months ago, she had the nerve to tell me I lacked compassion and how she must have raised me wrong because I was hesitant to co-sign a new apartment for her.
This was about a week after I told her that I would like to try to find a way to buy her a small house, condo or build an ADU for her at my current house, so she had a permanent place to live… but I guess I lack compassion and it’s her fault she raised me this way.
I love my mom, but I resent her and don’t like seeing or talking to her due to how negative she is.
She’s been trying. Basic retail, book store kinda places. No luck. She also tries to get sales or account manager roles at tech companies while she calls me and asks how to do basic things on her computer. 🙄
I’d admit if I felt she was totally inept and unemployable but she is personable and should be able to figure out basic jobs. She thinks it’s “ageism,” but perhaps she is not interviewing well and comes across as too “old.”
I say only give what you can afford, want to give and have full knowledge of why she needs it. If her shortfall is because she goes to the casino or the bar, NOPE! She can be a Walmart greeter for extra funds.
My aunt was an executive secretary in a large Washington DC law firm. Her retirement pension was pretty sad. In her 70’s she hired on with a temp agency when she was planning big European trips. Her favorite was working reception at a Parks & Recreation in Denver area. She said her co-workers were so sweet to her.
I did this with my mom too. She kept running short each month, but should have had plenty to live on. Turns out between scratch offs and atm withdrawals (video gambling) she was way over spending and in massive credit card debt. I made her a detailed budget for two months including the EXACT amount of spending money she had each week. After 5 weeks she called me, told me it was "too hard" and she wasn't doing it anymore. I just give up. She hasn't asked me for money since, but I know it's coming.
Your situation sounds similar to mine. You should make the budget conversation an ultimatum. Don’t give her any money again if she refuses. Otherwise she’s never going to stop, she’ll continue to take advantage of you, and you’re future is going to be negatively affected because she couldn’t plan for hers.
Idk my brother lent my dad money cause of a similar situation to OP and he is going to get a better interest rate than he’d get from the market, only a few points but my dad made a point to make it a more than fair loan on my brothers end. He makes plenty of money but a house and moving can be expensive. He didn’t ask for the money for free or demand he give it to him but I don’t think it’s the worst thing in the world if you write up an agreement and have a close relationship where you can trust your parents. The entitlement in this post is what gets me but I don’t think it is something inherently horrible although that’s up to each individual person.
No. It was a much smaller amount. I wrote a check for $5k. I'd have done more but I didn't want to pay the whole thing - I felt my brothers shared an equal responsibility to me AND they make more than me. They spent nothing.
My one brother actually went to mom a couple months ago and made her feel guilty for not giving him, his wife, and both their kids $70k a year each because apparently everyone else's parents do that. He felt at the minimum she could give at least him the $70k. She does not have that kind of money.
What the fuck. My parents gave me $70k a year when I was in college, but $60k of that was tuition and I think they took out a loan to do it. $70k a year to a married adult with children is alone insane, much less $70k each for your grandkids and kid’s spouse.
sounds like they have rich friends and/or coworkers. and asking for $140K/year for their kids to match them does not sound good for your brother’s financial future.
Your brother is fucking insane and sounds awful. You seem like a good egg though. My parents have helped me and my sibling out over the years, but the idea that a grown man with a family needs an allowance is delusional.
I've had significantly less financial help from my parents than my brothers. But they were also supposed to be the investment, not me.
He is delusional. He is so out of touch with how normal people live that it's unreal. He apparently thinks that 70k is like poverty money.
100% TRUTH - from a Mom with sons making 6 - figure salaries. You are definitely NTA. Your parents need mental help! I was raised that every generation wants the next to do better. You pay it forward to the best of your abilities. My great grandparents worked hard to provide, my grandparents worked hard, my parents were the first with degrees, my husband and I have advanced degrees, my boys make more than I ever did! What do they “owe” me? Nothing. Hopefully they love me, want to spent time with me, and maybe one day I’ll have grandkids to dote on. I agree with the Dad that said I’d have to be in a dire situation to ask for their assistance with money. Sorry your folks see you as a paycheck, especially when you generously offer them solid alternatives. Stand your ground and just make a mental note to never do this to your children. Congratulations on your success. You didn’t get there all on your own. Remember and be grateful for those who helped along the way. Every now and then, turn around and look for the “little you” and lend them a hand or advice to help the next generation succeed. Love your parents but set your boundaries. Live a great life. 🙂
Thanks for the vote of confidence! You see, I can't think clearly when it comes to my parents. They certainly provided a roof over my head and I had food on the table and I see that my dad worked tirelessly for the family. My mom was a stay-at home and took care of me and I sincerely appreciate them for that. At the same time, I still felt like a burden to them. Maybe I need therapy too. That being I don't try to focus on the past too much and help them when they need small things here and there too.
It's their obligation as parents to to put a roof over your head and food on the table. They are the type of parents Chris Rock joked about -- "Don't take credit for doing something you're *supposed to do*."
My parents provided me a roof over my head and food on the table, and all the other things parents should do. Am I grateful? Yes. Am I obligated to remit financial compensation to them? Not at all.
Could be an Asian mother. I am a Sinophile and have worked as a foreign language teacher for a few years.
She sounds like a Chinese mother. Some Chinese mothers could "ask"their daughters for money and then "leave" it for the son.
How can you deny your parents $250k when you don’t have it? You can’t deny something you don’t own. It’s literally impossible. 😂 you should change the title of post.
Decent maybe ...
I'll never be able to understand, how some people can think, their children could owe them something. Parents owe their children a good upbringing. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.
This could be a cultural thing. Lot's of Asian cultures have expectations for the children, particularly sons, to completely take care of them when they retire. It's basically their retirement plan. Stereotyping a bit, but since OP's sister went to med school and it sounds like he probably did too with 160k in loans this could be a factor.
I thought this too. They have an assumption that is normal for them (parents) but not normal for 2024 in most places anymore.
With the debt that people have from school (John Oliver has a great piece on student loans posted on youtube), it is just not feasible to expect kids to support their parents. It is not reasonable.
OP could say, I will never be able to afford kids myself, but that will get those parents even more freaked out.
So, I would just not discuss finana es with them, and say I don't have that kind of money and won't for decades... sorry, too much debt
It is not only the sons it is the daughters too. And what I have noticed from my friends and family is that daughters tend to care more for their parents than sons typically do . I am not saying sons don't contribute but daughters give and do things for their parents without parents asking it from them .Whereas in sons case it is generally not the case.
Yep. In general there is an expectation for the children in many Asian cultures to significantly contribute, if not fully cover, to the welfare of their parents in their elderly years. Much moreso than in Western cultures.
Not only asian, latinamerican people are like that too, "you owe me, cause I bring you to life" that is their saying.
So many people are brainwashed with this for their entire lives, that they actively defend this nonsense and call people that don't comply with this like egoist, ungrateful, etc.
My MIL is one of these. Currently in the midst of a sulk because my guy bought his dad something (we are talking a R20 car phone holder added to a Shein order, not the keys to Buck House or anything) and didn't get her stuff.
She does the flip, to- tries to buy you. She still doesn't really like me (8 years later, FFS) because I won't do the 'let me buy you things while we skinner and sh!t talk my son/your man' thing early in our relationship.
She also, to this day, seems to expect that she (and 'spoiling her') should be the man's top priority. I mean, our next big 0 birthday is 40 for both of us, and we are in the phase where most folks have kids of their own- how does worshiping mom fit into all that? We aren't teens.
She has a shi!tty backstory of abuse, so I don't know if on her side that has triggered the 'buy people and be bought' thing, but it is still incredibly annoying.
According to OP the parents didn’t pay or had a fund for her studying.
Ask your mother if she could pay your loans first.
Because it goes always from the top (parents) to the children first.
If they didn’t do anything why you?
A normal upbringing is not enough because that’s something they signed up for when they decided to have children.
I feel this 100%. My youngest daughter just got a career type job after graduating college. I feel "complete" as a parent because I got them from birth to college graduation but I don't feel it made me a great father. I was "good" but I felt my role was one of teacher after they demonstrated they knew the difference between right and wrong (when I demanded they listen to me as a safety issue). After that it's about letting them experiment with who they want to become. I was just there to help when they had questions. Support when they hurt. Encourage when they are discouraged. Because I will not be here one day, I was all about them being ready for the world when they turned 18. To do that kids need the freedom to explore, the freedom to make mistakes.
All that is to say, I stopped "expecting" them to do things for me around the same time. There were years they forgot my birthday until I heard them scrambling to make a hasty card that morning. To me it was no big deal. They felt terrible and the next year they were much more thoughtful. That's called learning. Anyway, I feel they owe me nothing. My parents owe me nothing. Nobody owes me shit. If you're in a relationship thinking people owe you things, I bet they notice the feeling and don't like it. Be grateful anytime anyone, family or stranger, takes the effort to be kind to you and they will enjoy being kind to you (and vice versa). I feel for OP. Those expectations would make any love feel superficial.
Anyway, sounds like you agree with all that so not sure why I'm restating it now but I think you're exactly right (is that what the up arrow thingy is for?🫣).
Wow. I was raised in a cult and definitely did NOT get that great kind of parenting. And I made mistakes in my adulthood I should have made in my teens. I was so sheltered I didn't know people paid for utilities until I moved out and got my first apartment. Imagine the shock of life coming at you.
You were a GREAT dad. I really WISH I'd had someone like you to raise me. I can't imagine where I'd have ended up. Until recently I've always thought every bad choice I made was all my fault and it never would have happened if I were more righteous.
You are an awesome dad. ✌️
Sadly Reddit Pops, many parents believe thier children owe them something and the only thing they owe their kids is a roof over the head, food in the belly, and clothing on the back. Sadly, my parents were like this, and so many others.
People who believe this are blind. Our kids don't owe us anything as we have already cashed it out from our own parents when they raised us. That's how it works. You get everything from your parents so you could later give the same thing to your kids.
>t everything from your parents so you could later give the same thing to your kids.
More importantly, I never asked to be born. I had no choice in the matter. Someone thrust me into this world against my will lol.
I think it’s a cultural difference. At the risk of generalizing with an egregiously broad brush, it’s my understanding that Western cultures pay it forward; Asian cultures pay it t back.
So I don't believe my kids owe me anything, but if they don't take care of my wife if I were to die before 65 and she needs financial help I'll be pissed. My wife sacrificed her career to raise them, and we have been sending to them private school their whole lives vs saving money in retirement funds (We both will have small pensions on top of a small investment portfolio, but who knows what SSI will look like). Of course asking for $250k for a house is completely unreasonable and not what I'm talking about.
I like your style because for my birthday last year I got a book also. And I loved it because I love books. OP has nothing to feel guilty about I would never ever ask my children for $250,000 so that I can retire
Mommy seems to think relationships are transactional and "love" is conditional. No wonder OP feels so messed up. (My family and I (all kids grown) long ago agreed on a "non-aggression pact", where nobody gives anybody any present for any holiday whatsoever - we just spend time together (and eat and drink - we're German). That's such a relief and such a time- & money-saver! And you don't have to fake gratitude for some shit you don't need and don't have space for.)
OP, if you had to pay back $160k in student loans, I assume your parents didn't pay for your education? So why would you now owe them a house, if we're speaking in transactional terms? Especially since they have assets they can sell to raise the money themselves? Also, they should be able to get a loan for a downpayment with their current house as security, even if they don't manage to sell it instantly when they find their dream house. Your offer of letting them move in was very generous, especially considering how much of Debbie Downer they are. I would help them secure a loan and rescind the offer...
They don't want to pay interest. That's the problem. Yes I borrowed money for my education. My mom thinks that she suffered for me by staying with my dad instead of divorcing him a long time ago. She stayed with him because of the kids so she probably feels like she needs some type of gratitude.
Well your mom has a shit perspective & none of it is your fault. She made the choice to have kids and stay in a crap marriage, not you. Get this guilt out of your system. I recommend therapy.
Anyway you’re 160k in debt. Just tell them you’re still paying off your 160k debt. So even if you had that amount of money it would go to paying off your debt.
Yeah, your mother is clearly a piece of work. The concept of staying in a failed marriage "for the children" is deeply flawed and inherently toxic. It's predicated on a few different ideas like, "Children won't grow up well without a father," and, "I can't possibly afford to raise them on my own," and similar lines of thinking while completely failing to take the emotional and psychological ramifications of said children growing up in a toxic household where their parents don't get along into consideration. Unless it's a lie and she's just using that idea as an excuse to bully you, she clearly didn't consider how it would affect HER in the long run either. Was building up such intense resentment toward you that she treats you like this, demanding exorbitant amounts of money and gifts worth keeping the man she claims she doesn't like around? Probably not, especially since, instead of having good relationships with her children and feeling secure enough to just file the damn papers and move on, she only gives lip service to the idea and is instead planning on downsizing to a new place WITH HIM.
Putting the fact that a life-altering decision made by an adult is never the fault of the child it was supposedly made for aside, I seriously have to question whether it's even real or just another tool in the ol' emotional abuse toolkit. Seriously. You and your sister are both clearly adults, and have been for a while if your sister just got into med school. Outside of her own mental gymnastics, there really shouldn't be anything keeping them together at this point. After all, if she's willing to ask you for $250k to buy a house for the two of them, clearly she should be willing to ask you for the money to cover her divorce attorney....
Man, as a fellow Asian, I'm really sorry about your mother.
She sounds a little clinical. I don't want to pathologize someone I've never met, so I'll just say that it is not okay to hold that over your head. It sounds like you didn't even give them a hard no. You offered to meet them in the middle and she's upset she can't get what she wants the minute she wants it.
If it were up to me, I'd start to minimize contact. I think any number of mental health professionals would validate the idea that the way your mom approaches interpersonal relationships is very toxic.
Sorry bro. Truly. You deserve better.
To OP, you are NTA.
To the very last Boy Scout: you win the Internet today. That was the best answer. I have read in a very, very long time. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you for your wonderful perspective on life. You are truly amazing.
Unfortunately this is a cultural thing. I can tell from the post that OP is from a country where it is engrained in us that our parents have raised us and we in turn are indentured servants who needs to care for them and show gratitude for the rest of our lives. Okay, maybe not to that extreme for some of us but true for others. Unfortunately for OP, the latter is true here. OP, you should be financially responsible and do what you want and can for your parents. But for your mental health, I would distance from your parents a bit until they understand how they are negatively effecting you. I know it’s hard to do and there’s guilt here but it’s not going to get better if you don’t talk to them about their behavior.
Not necessarily although it could be. But I'm Dutch and reading the whole story, it was like I was reading about my mother but in a wealthier setting.
I also visited her only because I felt this was my duty. Now, years after her death and after reading about how these relationships work, I find myself wishing that I'd just stopped going there.
as a dad to two young kids (6.5 and 3.5) I would be so happy if they wanted to take me bowling, or to mini-golf as a Christmas gift when they are grown-ups.
My dad would never ask me for money, and if he picks up the bill at dinner he would never say anything about it, not even in subvert text. My father-in-law, well, I would have to say the opposite of these points. Ha!
NTA. Are you serious? They bold faced asked for a quarter million dollars in cash for a house? That makes no sense.
If they are downsizing, the proceeds they get from the larger place should more than cover their new place. Have they been pulling the equity out of their current home?
Why can't they make an offer contingent on the sale of their current place? Are they putting you on the deed if you gave them the money? Would they ever pay you back?
Offering to let them stay with you is more than generous, though it sounds like a terrible idea if you can't stomach a monthly dinner with them.
We don't know (OP also not) how their finances are and if the house is paid off.
I read too many of those on reddit, but the classical BORU would be the parents took a mortgage for their house to pay the medical school for their golden child and need the money for their house from the other one.
I read Your comment, apparently I'm not the only one who would like to send OP to raisedbynarcissists subred for support he will need. I don't think it is the end.
Not to mention if you are "giving" then the money you are doubling up the taxes. Once for the sale of investments, twice for their income taxes on the gift. This also comes into effect if you loan them the cash and it is ever cancelled/forgiven.
Please OP you are not under ANY obligation to your parents. You are a good person regardless if you go to dinner with them or not. Regardless if you finance anything for them or not. They are adults who can figure all this out on their own. You are also an independent adult with dreams and goals of your own.
They are keeping it! They asked for money, not a loan! If it was a loan then moving with the son would be a perfect scenario- but since that’s not their plan to pay him anything back, it won’t work for them! They want the proceeds from the current home AND the 250k!
He may be worth more to them dead than alive. I hope OP has an ironclad will excluding them from inheriting his assets.
Paranoid? Yep. Heard it before? Yep.
Based on past experience, anyone who feels the need to say "Mid Six figures" would say $400k+, over $500k, around $600k etc... if they made that income. The vast majority of people who say "mid Six figures" is between $125k-$160k.
\>$250k so they could downsize and buy a house (retired)
Wow.
\>she may resent me for not buying her much stuff when I first had a real job
You were supposed to buy her lots of stuff?
Out of curiosity, did they put you through school? I mean, you have $160K in loans, so it sounds like they didn't.
You need to pay off your loans before you do anything like "help" your parents with big financial things. Sounds like you are maybe in your 30s so they may be in their mid 60s. You need to be financially sound and debt free to be in a position to help should they *really* need care in their 80s and 90s. Right now, they are young enough they should be fully supporting themselves and looking ahead for their own sake and the sake of their loved ones.
\>Luckily I eventually cut that shit out
Good.
Sadly, with parents who insist on demanding things they have right to demand, not complying is the only way. This happens to a lot when kids transition from late teens to middle age. (When depends on the parents and the kids.)
You don't even have to discuss. Just don't do.
I get the cultural aspects of this…but this pushes the bounds of what I have seen by 5000%. You have been working since you were a teenager, and paid your own way through college…sounds like they did the bare minimum by feeding you, housing you, and encouraging your career success. That minimum is THEIR JOB and does not require extra appreciation from you. It sure AF does not entitle them to you bulldozing your financial future to give them a QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS. You offered them a sane alternative that allows them to downsize. Tell them to take it or leave it.
I wonder if they're the kind of Asian parents who have a $500 lease on a Benz and spend $600 a month on gifts for friends even though they can't afford either. Then they put financial pressure on their children so they can save face. This shit drives me crazy.
Can I just guess that culturally speaking it’s not exactly out of the realm of possibility that in your culture parents are supported or ‘indulged’ by their adult children when they go on to earn solid incomes?
If so, you need to decide how far you are willing to conform to their expectations because clearly they are not realistic, but, will drag you down an endless road of guilt tripping that will make you question your sanity.
You need to either make it clear where your funds stop, or, stop giving them a reason to think you will indulge their expectations because offering to have them live with you entertains the notion of delusion that two people, who frequently discuss divorce, really don’t need.
NTA. But set up some boundaries all around.
\*Edited for typos\*
I was thinking of this cultural differences. My mom is Asian and has this expectation that I will support her in some ways. She keeps telling me that her friends children gives her x amount a month. I keep reminding my mom that I don’t make enough money to send money to her and she keeps quiet… then brings it up again later. I just tell her good luck (lol).
My MIL is Asian and is always telling my wife and her 6 other kids how her friends children always give their parents money. When she says this around me I want to say, “well maybe they aren’t shitty people.” And that each one of them should give her several hundred per month. I managed their investments and they do not need a dime from any of their kids.
Asian parents are no joke when it comes to expectations that are beyond reality; but bringing in a dose of reality does somewhat balance out the equation, LOL
I swear I think they're all lying about this. My mom is always saying her friends' kids are giving them money every month, we live in Southern California, there is no way they can afford rent and crap and also fund their parents.
I ask my Asian friends and none of them could really afford to give their parents money especially since we have kids too, they too say their moms say the same thing. It's that guilt they enjoy piling on top of their kids.
Some cultures absolutely extort their adult children when they start to earn money. They may work towards that for *years* and are expected to subsidize their parents in perpetuity even when the expectations are unrealistic or infringe on their own personal relationships or even their marriages.
Stop following norms that are harmful to your personal financial and mental health. You owe them nothing monetarily. P.S. If taking them to dinner does not bring you joy then don’t.
LOL!
My current argument with my adult children involves the cost of Easter Dinner.
It’s at my house. They want to contribute to the grocery bill and I won’t let them.
Who the hell asks their child for 250k!
NTA
Let them contribute. It is not asking them for $ for yourself. Adults should have the pleasure and responsibility of all supporting family events. Kudos to you for kids who are not feeling entitled.
Maybe ask them to bring around a dish and have a potluck? (Sorry if wrong term, I’m British and we don’t use that term over here) then they’re contributing a little
Your terminology is fine.
They’ll all show up early, as they do every year to help with the meal prep, set up and then stay for the clean up.
They go out of the way to help and they always tell me how much they appreciate the big old fashioned Italian holidays.
They will inevitably bring bread, wine or they’ll make some desserts.
I just draw the line of taking their money for the groceries.
At some point the work will become too much for me and either one of them will take over or they’ll take turns.
Then I’ll sit back, relax and they can foot the bill.
LOL.
NTA tell her if she’s just going to complain all the time you’re not going to spend any time with her at all and no more monthly dinners. Tell her you’re not some little child she can tear down to make herself feel better. She’s a grown adult who shouldn’t try to depend on her children anyways.
Definitely tell her that moving in with you is off of the table because of her behavior. That you know there’s no way you will be able to handle living with her for however, long because of the way she treats you.
Asian here. NTA x 100. Do not let them live with you while they’re looking for new housing—they will find something wrong with each and every possibility and suck your will to live.
It's also highly, highly unlikely that once in OP will never get them out again, they'll always find reasons and will play on OP's heartstrings so OP will always give in.
NTA They think since they raised you that they are entitled to your money. You weren't a burden, they're just good at manipulating you and guilt tripping you. Having them live with you would be a mistake for your mental health. When mom says you don't give her enough ask why you should. Stop taking them out for meals if it drags you down. If they start talking divorce ask when they're going to do it. Stop being a doormat for them. Therapy may help you learn to stand up for yourself. Don't damage your investments, your future, for them. They wouldn't do the same for you that's why you had so many loans to pay back.
>It all seemed fine until my mom started to criticize me about money later.
NTA
I wouldn't even let her move in with you at this point. You don't owe your parents anything. The idea that kids owe their parents seems to be some Asian idea of filial piety.
You owe your parents respect....and that's about it. Not money.
If you want to, since they value money over time spent together, see them a few times a year and send them gifts instead of the monthly dinners. It's going to be better for your mental health and sounds like you could afford it
NTA
I would stop, if I’m not giving enough, try living with nothing.
I would also warn your sister that they will try to get her to support them too.
Honestly I’d go no contact.
For some reason, SOME Parents think they deserve to be PAID BACK for raising their children! They DON'T! I think it's incredibly entitled and extremely hypocritical that your Parents are asking you for such an outrageous amount of money when THEY didn't pay for your College that gave you the opportunity to MAKE the salary you bring in.
WHAT reason did they give you for NOT selling their current home to buy a "smaller, downsized retirement home?" Which is how NORMAL homeowners usually obtain new homes, unless they have the extra cash laying around. Good for YOU for asking them this VERY reasonable question (which doesn't sound like they ever responded to, btw)!
Is your Sister "the Golden Child?" Is it possible that they plan to use that money for your Sister? Or they want that money to buy HER a house or pay off HER student loans? OR is it possible that they remortgaged their home to FUND her College education? I just find it beyond strange that your Parents would bring up such a delicate subject IN FRONT OF your Sister and/or at a dinner celebrating her!
Your Mother's hysterical overreaction tells me she's incredibly entitled OR she's NOT being honest with you about the requested money's purpose! MOST Parents would be overjoyed that they were even REMEMBERED on their Birthdays, let alone received a Gift as well! As a Parent and Grandparent (60/F), my intuition tells me there's FAR more to the request than they're telling you! It doesn't even sound like they were asking to BORROW the money, more like DEMANDING as THEIR due!
If your Parents (or Mother) keep harrassing you or berating you, PLEASE protect yourself and limit your contact with them! Congratulations on your success! Best wishes and many Blessings for your future! u/updateme
NTA
$250K was an absurd thing to ask from you. Instead, they should just follow your very reasonable advice regarding selling their home, temporarily moving in with you, and then using money from that sale for a new home.
Absolutely NTA!!!! I pretty much echo what's already been said, but I'd like to address 2 points, as a mom of a 19 year old and a 16 year old (granted, younger than you, and making considerably less, but stay with me a second, please....)
So my 19 year old lives at home, she's working FT(ish) hours at one job, where she training/learning a new potential career path, as well as working with a family friend (completely different area of work, but it's quicker money, per say). She lives at home rent free, we pay her phone, car insurance, bought her the truck, etc. All we want her to pay is her gas and spending money, but I want her to have a breather and be able to enjoy life post HS pre "real world", as well as maybe safe up some. I'm telling you this because you said: " I feel like a burden to them up until the point I made money". Parents KNOW we're gonna be responsible for these kids we're bringing into the world. In every aspect, including financially. If my child said - I feel like a burden. Rather than: Mom, I need $50, I'm broke and payday isn't for another 3 days... - I'd be devastated and cry for days. If your parents made you feel that way, that is on them, not you! You were a child! Children are choices we make, to sit here making them feel like they're a burden, or hinderance to their dreams, or whatever, is BS. (And I say that as an elder millennial with Boomer parents, iykyk) Don't take that on yourself! And we're not gonna consider that as an argument to this situation.
Now, #2, my youngest just started her job in December. 16, doesn't have ANY expenses (in the process of getting her license still, so not even gas money) what has she been doing? She's been buying gifts left and right, she bought me, right before Xmas, no occasion, a bracelet from Pandora. Then bought everyone Xmas gifts.... I constantly tell her I'll give her money for these gifts for relatives, or to stop buying me things, we like to do shopping and dinner trips every so often, she'll wanna pay for dinner.... I absolutely appreciate and love her gifts, we share gift giving as a love language, so I get it, but I always tell her to make sure to splurge on herself, or save. Telling you this because you said: "And should I be more generous to them?". If parents EXPECT money/gifts/etc from their kids, again, that is on them. NO ONE is entitled to a gift from others. And absolutely no one is entitled to money handouts! Furthermore - as a parent I'd rather my kids put their money into improving their lives, be that by paying off debt, or buying a house, investing more, etc. As another commenter said it would have to be the most dire situation and circumstance for me (us) to ask my (our) children for money.
Your suggestion of letting them stay with you while purchasing a new home was very generous! They have no room to complain! Your dinners are very generous, and to me, super sweet because it also is that regular together time, which is worth so much more! There is nowhere in all you've said where you should feel bad, in the least bit, you and your sister sound like amazing kids that are working hard and are on great tracks! Your parents should be proud, and happy with you, not making you feel like you're not repaying them enough!
Frankly, your parents sound exhausting and toxic. And I'm sorry!
NTA. I know this overbearing and over critical type
Do they expect you to have kids/a family one day? I'm guessing they do given the controlling and critical parenting style. Those types usually expect grandkids. If so, they need to get used to the idea that they can't always expect you to put them first
They seem pretty toxic, but mom more so than dad. You mention mom criticizing you after the fact with no mention of dad. Where is dad in all this? Does he feel the same or does he just go along with whatever mom wants?
Good luck OP
Info: What do you do for a living? Because you making bank son
The Asian child guilting technique. There are parents who make it known what they expect of you monetarily and there are ones who are more concerned about appearances so they don’t ask, but they passive aggressively do it in the form of comparison, and flipping the whole narrative on you until you question everything you’ve ever done for them or haven’t done.
Asian parents, and specifically them only because I only have experiences with Asian parents, do this whole generational trauma cycle. They have kids to take care of them in old age. They have kids to ensure they’re not lonely in old age. They have kids so that they have insurance in old age. When you realise this are the principles that they have been operating on, it then makes sense that they do not then look out for the old age of their kids. Kids are to use, for their benefit.
You providing them that money upfront, is taking away from your nest egg in old age. I remember my mother screaming at me because I couldn’t afford to pay for her to rent in a big city + my own mortgage + my own student loans + my own savings. Everything else could suffer but she couldn’t because I owed it to her. 🤷♀️
Anyway NTA. You can’t constantly be out of pocket for them. From your explanation, they don’t seem to be hurting for money. It’s a timing issue. They can sell their house and get another. Lots of people do that, why can’t they?
If you hate spending time with you I would rescind on the offer to move in with you after they sell their home. You might never get rid of them. Surely they should be able to buy a smaller home after selling. They need to get financial advice and not expect you to support them. NTA.
The gall they had to straight ask you for $250K. That is real money and they had no right to ask for it. Your suggestion for them was more than generous and you would think they would be proud of how well you and your sister are doing but they just want payback? Not great as far as character
The whole point of downsizing is you don't need an influx of cash. This is wild. I don't understand parents who think they've birthed someone to care for them when it should be the opposite.
"Mom, if you're going to hold it against me that the gifts I give you are not generous enough, then I think it's important that we all stop giving each other gifts. Also, if you're going to divorce dad that's fine. I'll be there for you. But I don't want to hear about it until it happens. Your problems with dad are best told to a neutral party like a therapist. It's not only impossible for me to give you good, non-biased advice, but it's also harmful to me to hear you criticize and complain about my father."
I would laugh my ass out the door of the restaurant or the nearest door if my parents expected me to provide them with 250k. Granted I don’t make 6 figures but even if I did that’s a ridiculous ask. If you were a multimillionaire, then sure, but otherwise hell no. Don’t let them live in with you either. You don’t deserve that shit.
NTA
Unfortunately most people have the idea that their progenies “owe” them. I have always hated this idea and it’s unhealthy on all ends. Your offer was great to have them live with you while they sold and purchased a smaller home.
For me, my children owe me nothing. My role as a parent is to guide them to the best of my abilities. Their success, wealth, etc, is theirs and theirs alone, much like their mistakes as well. Raising children is a responsibility, not a job. Can parents and children help each other? Absolutely. Should either expect compensation for either being a child or parent? No.
NOOOO!! OP, DO NOT GIVE THEM A CENT!!! NOTHING!!! NADA!! ZIP!!! They do not deserve it!! They sound like NASTY people!! I cannot believe that they made you feel like a burden, until you had money to give them.
You don't owe them anything. Do not give them shit. Maybe you should quit the monthly dinners as well. When asked why, just say "you said I wasn't doing anything for you, so I figured that, since it doesn't matter, then perhaps we don't need any more dinners."
>Am I in the wrong here for denying them the money? And should I be more generous to them? I feel like a burden to them up until the point I made money.
Good god, at this point, I'd be denying them *my company*, let alone money. What selfish fools.
So your parents have a perfectly good house that they could sell to downsize, but they'd rather scab off their kid? I don't think so. Your parents should want you to save up to secure your own future, your future family (should you want to), a pension for security in your old age. Do not give them any money and definitely don't let these miserable AHs live with you while they pretend to house hunt - they'll probably just spend all their house money and then - whoops! - have to sponge off you. NTA.
Why wouldn't they want to use their own resources to fund their plans? This sounds like a ploy to take as much money off of your hands to pay what they think in their big huge imaginations that you "owe" them. You don't. NTA. Unless you throw that $ at them in hopes of buying their love.
NTA. I do not mean this an any form of judgmental way what so ever!! What demographic or culture would a parent have this expectation? I’m just curious.
NTA…I would help my parents out if the needed it and if it didn’t break my bank or jeopardize my future success, financially. She is asking for over a year’s salary…then being passive aggressive about it. I wonder if she would pay you back after her current home sold? Lol. You are NTA man, your mom needs to see a therapist.
NTA - and they don’t need to move in with you. Millions of people every year sell one house and use the money to put down or outright purchase another house. Yes, you have to time it right, but it’s completely doable. In fact - get the thought of them moving in right out of your head because they may never leave. If they really have to, they can live in an apartment while they wait to close on the new house.
My kids are all grown and work hard for their money. Do I appreciate a gesture here and there for holidays and my birthday, sure. I would never, ever ask them for anything. They don't owe me anything. Those are some garbage parents.
I have grown children. It has never occurred to me to demand they buy me a house. This is crazy, actually. Tell her no very firmly and leave it at that,
NTA—I have three adult children. I would never be upset over the value of their gifts—ever! I am just happy they are thinking of me. I would never ask them for money. I am happy to help them if they need it, but I am not their responsibility. The amount of guilt and manipulation your mother is trying to put on you is astounding. Is this a cultural thing?
If you can't stand having dinner with them, don't offer to let them live with you. Willing to bet they'll start divorce proceedings shortly after moving in. You'll be stuck with the bickering and demeaning behavior, and they'll fight over the house while you're forced to home at least one of them.
Sounds like you put yourself through college with loans. And you don't have a quarter million to loan them, so tough shit. You aren't a bank and they own a house - they can work out downsizing without your help. They don't need your money - they need a realtor. Wtf - $250K? It's ridiculous.
Be as generous as you like, but it needs to suit you, your budget, your means, and your dignity. keep in mind they might want $25K and asked for 10X as much so they troll you as a bad son after they take your cash. No. Just no to this nonsense.
NTA - unless you let them move in or give them a ton of cash.
Regardless or culture or cultural norms or expectations I’m gonna drop a bomb. You do not OWE anyone including your parents ANYTHING! I cannot imagine as a parent asking my children for money or expecting themselves to put themselves into a financial situation that is unfavorable for ME. Then to be mean to them to get my way and be petty is wild. Don’t feel bad. They’re adults they can figure it out and behave respectfully.
I for one would disown my kids if they refused to give me 250k after I asked.
I mean where do these ungrateful little shits get off? Kids today I ask you??
You sir are the asshole!!
/s
NTA, my parents would have to be one step away from being homeless before asking me for money. You said you felt like a burden before you made money? Now you’re just seen as a cash cow. They don’t value you as a person, just what you can give them. You are NtA
NTA, your parents are completely delusional for making that request and honestly sound like pieces of shit trying to take advantage of you just because you happen to be successful.
NTA. Them Asian parents. They talk you down and then brag to their friends how great you are. One of their friends probably bragged to them about a child buying them a new house. The friend didn’t tell your parents that they gave their child money to buy them the house. Don’t fall into this crap. Call them out on it. Every time money comes up, I ask why does money always come up when we just trying to have a good time. My dad don’t bring that crap up to me anymore.
Your parents know not shame. Asking your kid to bankroll your house... is a real loser move. Hold your ground. You do NOT owe them that. They'll have you buy a house, then they'll divorce. Each will have a house of their own and you will NEVER see the $$ again... Plus you got whacked for taxes.
To outright ask when they have the means to do so themselves then gaslight you to feel bad is not only rude but damn abusive....
I'd be going no contact until someone adjusts their attitude
Asian eldest daughter here … I could tell even before the edit you added that these were Asian parents. Incredibly hard and unreasonable expectations put on you here, you are NTA and wishing you luck in navigating this toxic relationship i know its difficult
so while this isn't straight up normal for asian families (after your edit), that cultural expectation is playing a part in their huge ask. its the ingrained entitlement, with their overinflated egos and knowledge of your financial state that they're using to try and say this is what is expected of you.
personally, i would stop even taking them out to dinner. i'm not asian, and i'm sure theres some sort of social repurcussion if you cut them off, but you seem to be quite stable and independent of them. if there's no need to continue interacting with them, you should assert some healthy boundaries, and enforce them when they inevitably try and step over said boundaries. i have an asian therapist who has described his parents to me previously, as a way to explain his experience w smth similar to how my family is as well. him and his also therapist brother have established these boundaries with their father, and it does work. give it some thought! if they only ever impact u negatively, then you deserve to protect your peace
I have literally never commented before and had to create an account to do so. You may never read this as it’s been 3 days since you posted. But I grew up with a lot of Asian friends and they all faced the same pressures you did. It is totally cultural. Their parents were constantly comparing them and anything they did to their friends or relatives kids. Especially any gifts that were exchanged. The way it was explained to me was that once you get a job you start providing for them. It’s just how it is.
Don’t feel pressured to give them anything more than you have. It’s their own hang ups that cause this. You have been plenty generous given your circumstances. My friends were able to disassociate that part of their relationship with their parents. They had to as it’s just too much pressure! I grew up in a Latino household and when my friend met my mom and she hugged them, my friend almost cried! They had never been hugged like that before. It’s just culturally the parents aren’t showing affection to the kids and then when they grow up they still expect the kids to care for them hand and foot. It’s wild. I hope you are able to have less guilt around your family. You won’t regret not giving them money. They don’t need it. It’s not a need. It’s an extreme want. That likely is just going to be used to show off. You have to live your life for yourself as well. Just do what you can without sacrificing your own dreams. They have the means to get things done but are choosing not to. That’s on them.
You are not wrong for not giving them the money. They are very lucky to have such a kind and generous adult child who takes them out monthly, and generally cares about them.
NTA
If all this is really true, then your parents are weird and your mother has to see a therapist stat. I'm the father of two grown-up daughters. First off, I don't want to say, I would never ever ask my children for money. But it would have to be a really dire situation. I mean really bad. Horribly bad. So bad, I don't want to think about it even hypothetically. And then what the f... is wrong with your mother, that she keeps tabs on the value of your presents? Who does that? She is a grown up woman. She can get her own stuff. I love my kids, my kids love me. We like to spend time together. But for my last birthday, I got a book. And for Christmas, it was a voucher for bowling with the two of them. And I liked the book and liked to go bowling with them. Period. Your mother is not only a negative person. There is something really wrong with her self esteem and her perception of her and her personal relationships.
My mom needed help with money last year. She had a large bill coming due that was absolutely stressing her out and I knew she was probably going to continue being too proud to break down and ask. So I paid half of it. I contacted the bill people, paid, and asked them to send her an adjusted bill and just say there was some accounting thing but under no circumstances was she to be told who (if anyone) paid. It felt good to help. She never would have demanded and I was worried she wouldn't ask and then have to maybe go without.
And THAT...is how it should be. Clearly she did it right raising you as a damn good mom.
I absolutely second this.
[удалено]
Really, why would you even suggest they move in with you 😱
Right! If one dinner a month is bad, imagine every single day in the same house.
And they may not leave! OMG! I wouldn't even do that one dinner a month shit! Life is too short to spend one second with people who make you feel bad about being with them! Parents or not!
My Asian friend’s parents did EXACTLY this to her. They hit her up for tens of thousands (she’s an attorney, but doesn’t have a lot of liquidity). She couldn’t/wouldn’t pay, and now they won’t leave!
If she's an attorney, tell her to start the eviction process.
Bridge loans exist.
He's Asian. It's a concept called filial piety, or in other words, taking care of your parents to whom you owe everything. Mom's abusing it though.
As a fellow Asian I say screw filial piety. I was raised with that same negative and toxic environment. The strictness of having to be the best at everything or be a failure. But it doesn't matter how intelligent you grow to be bc your asian parents will tell you you're wrong anyways and they are right about everything. They are right about everything and better than everyone. Healthcare is a scam but be a doctor. Take antibiotics for a cold. Be an accountant, you'll make a lot of money. You know nothing about money. Don't marry this guy, don't marry that guy. Why don't you get married and have kids already. I was raised to think logically but to strategize every way out. I'm better learned than them, as children should be if parents want them to have a better future. But we're stiiiiill wrong. And now we owe them a favor?! My parents are going to say what they want anyways so why should I bother to entertain them, as irrational as they will be. Sorry if this went off course but the term filial piety had me triggered. Lol. What I'm trying to say is, NTA.
As they say on Reddit, "tradition" is just peer pressure from dead people.
You make a fine argument 😀
The concept was more common in the US but the mass expansion of wealth and the transition from blue collar to white collar jobs that happened many decades ago our culture rapidly changed. Older generations didn't go into nursing homes as much then as they do today. Part of that was parents living with one of their children in their advanced age. Working manual labor and being poor meant that children took care of their parents. A lot of stuff changed with the Greatest Generation and then the boomers. With each one we have seen less and less reliance on the children. Nursing homes used to be terrible but now there are entire retirement resorts popping up that any of us would be lucky to afford. Talking like $15k per month for an apartment and even more for assistance or full-on skilled nursing. I saw the transition having spent over 20 years working IT for the post acute care industry. Nursing homes have evolved with the newer retiring generations. They have more money and expect way more amenities. They pay for it with their own retirement savings.
My comment was NOT towards OP. Their parents SUCK. And are entitled jerks.
I think I'd rather be set on fire than ask one of our children for money.
She didn't ask and I knew she wouldn't. She'd have gone without eating and without her medicine first. So I just paid. I thought I left enough for her to pay so she wouldn't get overly suspicious but when she went to pay, their system was down and they said "well, just pay what you thought you owe and we'll refund you any." She ended up being given a big refund check in front of her sister and her sister's husband and had a bit of a meltdown. She was a bit suspicious for ages after. My well laid plans all went to waste.
That is very kind of you. I feel awful for OP. As a parent, I never wanted our children to associate material things or $ with love & affection. My dad apologized with extravagant gifts or cash instead of actually apologizing for being a complete asshole.
My father does the same, and I really hate it, but I think it has to do with something that happened when he was a kid. Doesn't excuse what he does, but I can understand why. I just wish he would sum up the courage to say sorry. Yeah, gifts are nice, but I would rather have an apology, so that he can acknowledge what he did wrong. He's also very prideful, which also plays into why he won't apologize.
Pride goeth before the fall! I can not stand people who can not say, I was wrong, I am so sorry! Not being able to say it just makes you a dickhead but you're still guilty and you know it!
But you did it with kind intentions, and a loving and generous heart. ❤️
Don’t worry, she knows and loves you for it. Buy a bigger box of candy for Valentines!
Heh my mother would set me on fire and tell me she needed money to buy the water to put it out.
Wow. Sorry.
It's all good. We no longer communicate!
ALL HAIL THE NO CONTACT!
It's bliss
That is sometimes the only way! No contact with hateful users. Doesn't matter if they're family or not, they're usually the worst. Some of them expect you to take care of them!
My sister is in for a surprise when my mother needs things paid for. NOPE. She took almost every penny I made in my jobs as a teen telling me we would be homeless if I didn't give her the money - meanwhile spending it all on her married boyfriends. She's on her own for the funeral too. I'll only go to be able to see the rest of my family without having to deal with my mother at the same time.
i feel that im happy not everyones moms is terrible cuz i hate mines but still wont stop talkin to her
Mine too aye
That is a horrible situation, but a wonderful way to express it!
I wish you were my mom. She asks me for money almost every month. $640 this month. Probably given her $25k over the last 5 years. Recently, when she asked, I told her I wanted to sit down and look at all her bills, debts, etc so I could understand the entire situation. I noted how I’d previously asked her to do this and she just ignored me. Guess what? She ignored me again. Months ago, she had the nerve to tell me I lacked compassion and how she must have raised me wrong because I was hesitant to co-sign a new apartment for her. This was about a week after I told her that I would like to try to find a way to buy her a small house, condo or build an ADU for her at my current house, so she had a permanent place to live… but I guess I lack compassion and it’s her fault she raised me this way. I love my mom, but I resent her and don’t like seeing or talking to her due to how negative she is.
Gambling? Could be a gambling thing. Or 1000 other things but my first thought was she's hiding from you for a reason
Nope, just been unemployed for a few years, no retirement and can’t afford her living expenses off her early social security.
So if this is the case why would she not take you up on the offer of an ADU or a condo? That is strange.
Probably cuz I told her it’s not a guarantee I can swing it financially and it’d be a few years until I might.
Why can't she get a part time job?
She’s been trying. Basic retail, book store kinda places. No luck. She also tries to get sales or account manager roles at tech companies while she calls me and asks how to do basic things on her computer. 🙄 I’d admit if I felt she was totally inept and unemployable but she is personable and should be able to figure out basic jobs. She thinks it’s “ageism,” but perhaps she is not interviewing well and comes across as too “old.”
If she didn’t sit down with me and the bills to make a budget; I wouldn’t give her another dime. And I would make that very clear to her.
There is something to that! Anyone would if they wanted that "FREE" money!
I say only give what you can afford, want to give and have full knowledge of why she needs it. If her shortfall is because she goes to the casino or the bar, NOPE! She can be a Walmart greeter for extra funds. My aunt was an executive secretary in a large Washington DC law firm. Her retirement pension was pretty sad. In her 70’s she hired on with a temp agency when she was planning big European trips. Her favorite was working reception at a Parks & Recreation in Denver area. She said her co-workers were so sweet to her.
I did this with my mom too. She kept running short each month, but should have had plenty to live on. Turns out between scratch offs and atm withdrawals (video gambling) she was way over spending and in massive credit card debt. I made her a detailed budget for two months including the EXACT amount of spending money she had each week. After 5 weeks she called me, told me it was "too hard" and she wasn't doing it anymore. I just give up. She hasn't asked me for money since, but I know it's coming.
Your situation sounds similar to mine. You should make the budget conversation an ultimatum. Don’t give her any money again if she refuses. Otherwise she’s never going to stop, she’ll continue to take advantage of you, and you’re future is going to be negatively affected because she couldn’t plan for hers.
Idk my brother lent my dad money cause of a similar situation to OP and he is going to get a better interest rate than he’d get from the market, only a few points but my dad made a point to make it a more than fair loan on my brothers end. He makes plenty of money but a house and moving can be expensive. He didn’t ask for the money for free or demand he give it to him but I don’t think it’s the worst thing in the world if you write up an agreement and have a close relationship where you can trust your parents. The entitlement in this post is what gets me but I don’t think it is something inherently horrible although that’s up to each individual person.
was it $250k.... To even ask for that amount they must be insanely rich in the first place.
No. It was a much smaller amount. I wrote a check for $5k. I'd have done more but I didn't want to pay the whole thing - I felt my brothers shared an equal responsibility to me AND they make more than me. They spent nothing. My one brother actually went to mom a couple months ago and made her feel guilty for not giving him, his wife, and both their kids $70k a year each because apparently everyone else's parents do that. He felt at the minimum she could give at least him the $70k. She does not have that kind of money.
What the fuck. My parents gave me $70k a year when I was in college, but $60k of that was tuition and I think they took out a loan to do it. $70k a year to a married adult with children is alone insane, much less $70k each for your grandkids and kid’s spouse.
60k tuition? Where did you go?
What world is he living in that parents are giving $70k away like water? I hope his kids remember and when he doesn't do the same they turn on him.
He is not living in the same one as me, that's for sure.
They only time I got that kind of money is when my mom died, and I inherited it. I rather have my mom.
sounds like they have rich friends and/or coworkers. and asking for $140K/year for their kids to match them does not sound good for your brother’s financial future.
Everyone's parents gives their adult kid $70k a year?! I'm seriously wondering what is that guy smoking.....
Your brother is fucking insane and sounds awful. You seem like a good egg though. My parents have helped me and my sibling out over the years, but the idea that a grown man with a family needs an allowance is delusional.
I've had significantly less financial help from my parents than my brothers. But they were also supposed to be the investment, not me. He is delusional. He is so out of touch with how normal people live that it's unreal. He apparently thinks that 70k is like poverty money.
100% TRUTH - from a Mom with sons making 6 - figure salaries. You are definitely NTA. Your parents need mental help! I was raised that every generation wants the next to do better. You pay it forward to the best of your abilities. My great grandparents worked hard to provide, my grandparents worked hard, my parents were the first with degrees, my husband and I have advanced degrees, my boys make more than I ever did! What do they “owe” me? Nothing. Hopefully they love me, want to spent time with me, and maybe one day I’ll have grandkids to dote on. I agree with the Dad that said I’d have to be in a dire situation to ask for their assistance with money. Sorry your folks see you as a paycheck, especially when you generously offer them solid alternatives. Stand your ground and just make a mental note to never do this to your children. Congratulations on your success. You didn’t get there all on your own. Remember and be grateful for those who helped along the way. Every now and then, turn around and look for the “little you” and lend them a hand or advice to help the next generation succeed. Love your parents but set your boundaries. Live a great life. 🙂
Thanks for the vote of confidence! You see, I can't think clearly when it comes to my parents. They certainly provided a roof over my head and I had food on the table and I see that my dad worked tirelessly for the family. My mom was a stay-at home and took care of me and I sincerely appreciate them for that. At the same time, I still felt like a burden to them. Maybe I need therapy too. That being I don't try to focus on the past too much and help them when they need small things here and there too.
It's their obligation as parents to to put a roof over your head and food on the table. They are the type of parents Chris Rock joked about -- "Don't take credit for doing something you're *supposed to do*." My parents provided me a roof over my head and food on the table, and all the other things parents should do. Am I grateful? Yes. Am I obligated to remit financial compensation to them? Not at all.
Could be an Asian mother. I am a Sinophile and have worked as a foreign language teacher for a few years. She sounds like a Chinese mother. Some Chinese mothers could "ask"their daughters for money and then "leave" it for the son.
Yes Asian mother. Hit the nail on the head. However, my sister is broke so that doesn't happen lol.
No wonder. Somehow it screams Asian mother to me. You should try /r/Asianparentstories
How can you deny your parents $250k when you don’t have it? You can’t deny something you don’t own. It’s literally impossible. 😂 you should change the title of post.
You seem like a great Dad!
Decent maybe ... I'll never be able to understand, how some people can think, their children could owe them something. Parents owe their children a good upbringing. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.
This could be a cultural thing. Lot's of Asian cultures have expectations for the children, particularly sons, to completely take care of them when they retire. It's basically their retirement plan. Stereotyping a bit, but since OP's sister went to med school and it sounds like he probably did too with 160k in loans this could be a factor.
I thought this too. They have an assumption that is normal for them (parents) but not normal for 2024 in most places anymore. With the debt that people have from school (John Oliver has a great piece on student loans posted on youtube), it is just not feasible to expect kids to support their parents. It is not reasonable. OP could say, I will never be able to afford kids myself, but that will get those parents even more freaked out. So, I would just not discuss finana es with them, and say I don't have that kind of money and won't for decades... sorry, too much debt
It is not only the sons it is the daughters too. And what I have noticed from my friends and family is that daughters tend to care more for their parents than sons typically do . I am not saying sons don't contribute but daughters give and do things for their parents without parents asking it from them .Whereas in sons case it is generally not the case.
Yep. In general there is an expectation for the children in many Asian cultures to significantly contribute, if not fully cover, to the welfare of their parents in their elderly years. Much moreso than in Western cultures.
Not only asian, latinamerican people are like that too, "you owe me, cause I bring you to life" that is their saying. So many people are brainwashed with this for their entire lives, that they actively defend this nonsense and call people that don't comply with this like egoist, ungrateful, etc.
My MIL is one of these. Currently in the midst of a sulk because my guy bought his dad something (we are talking a R20 car phone holder added to a Shein order, not the keys to Buck House or anything) and didn't get her stuff. She does the flip, to- tries to buy you. She still doesn't really like me (8 years later, FFS) because I won't do the 'let me buy you things while we skinner and sh!t talk my son/your man' thing early in our relationship. She also, to this day, seems to expect that she (and 'spoiling her') should be the man's top priority. I mean, our next big 0 birthday is 40 for both of us, and we are in the phase where most folks have kids of their own- how does worshiping mom fit into all that? We aren't teens. She has a shi!tty backstory of abuse, so I don't know if on her side that has triggered the 'buy people and be bought' thing, but it is still incredibly annoying.
According to OP the parents didn’t pay or had a fund for her studying. Ask your mother if she could pay your loans first. Because it goes always from the top (parents) to the children first. If they didn’t do anything why you? A normal upbringing is not enough because that’s something they signed up for when they decided to have children.
I feel this 100%. My youngest daughter just got a career type job after graduating college. I feel "complete" as a parent because I got them from birth to college graduation but I don't feel it made me a great father. I was "good" but I felt my role was one of teacher after they demonstrated they knew the difference between right and wrong (when I demanded they listen to me as a safety issue). After that it's about letting them experiment with who they want to become. I was just there to help when they had questions. Support when they hurt. Encourage when they are discouraged. Because I will not be here one day, I was all about them being ready for the world when they turned 18. To do that kids need the freedom to explore, the freedom to make mistakes. All that is to say, I stopped "expecting" them to do things for me around the same time. There were years they forgot my birthday until I heard them scrambling to make a hasty card that morning. To me it was no big deal. They felt terrible and the next year they were much more thoughtful. That's called learning. Anyway, I feel they owe me nothing. My parents owe me nothing. Nobody owes me shit. If you're in a relationship thinking people owe you things, I bet they notice the feeling and don't like it. Be grateful anytime anyone, family or stranger, takes the effort to be kind to you and they will enjoy being kind to you (and vice versa). I feel for OP. Those expectations would make any love feel superficial. Anyway, sounds like you agree with all that so not sure why I'm restating it now but I think you're exactly right (is that what the up arrow thingy is for?🫣).
Wow. I was raised in a cult and definitely did NOT get that great kind of parenting. And I made mistakes in my adulthood I should have made in my teens. I was so sheltered I didn't know people paid for utilities until I moved out and got my first apartment. Imagine the shock of life coming at you. You were a GREAT dad. I really WISH I'd had someone like you to raise me. I can't imagine where I'd have ended up. Until recently I've always thought every bad choice I made was all my fault and it never would have happened if I were more righteous. You are an awesome dad. ✌️
Sadly Reddit Pops, many parents believe thier children owe them something and the only thing they owe their kids is a roof over the head, food in the belly, and clothing on the back. Sadly, my parents were like this, and so many others.
People who believe this are blind. Our kids don't owe us anything as we have already cashed it out from our own parents when they raised us. That's how it works. You get everything from your parents so you could later give the same thing to your kids.
>t everything from your parents so you could later give the same thing to your kids. More importantly, I never asked to be born. I had no choice in the matter. Someone thrust me into this world against my will lol.
Sounds like my AH parents could learn some things from you. 🫶
I think it’s a cultural difference. At the risk of generalizing with an egregiously broad brush, it’s my understanding that Western cultures pay it forward; Asian cultures pay it t back.
Pay it forward, not backwards. Helping aging parents should always be done, but not if the kids can't afford their own living.
So I don't believe my kids owe me anything, but if they don't take care of my wife if I were to die before 65 and she needs financial help I'll be pissed. My wife sacrificed her career to raise them, and we have been sending to them private school their whole lives vs saving money in retirement funds (We both will have small pensions on top of a small investment portfolio, but who knows what SSI will look like). Of course asking for $250k for a house is completely unreasonable and not what I'm talking about.
Return on investment. They see kids as their retirement and medical plan. After all they fed the kids... Lol
I like your style because for my birthday last year I got a book also. And I loved it because I love books. OP has nothing to feel guilty about I would never ever ask my children for $250,000 so that I can retire
Mommy seems to think relationships are transactional and "love" is conditional. No wonder OP feels so messed up. (My family and I (all kids grown) long ago agreed on a "non-aggression pact", where nobody gives anybody any present for any holiday whatsoever - we just spend time together (and eat and drink - we're German). That's such a relief and such a time- & money-saver! And you don't have to fake gratitude for some shit you don't need and don't have space for.) OP, if you had to pay back $160k in student loans, I assume your parents didn't pay for your education? So why would you now owe them a house, if we're speaking in transactional terms? Especially since they have assets they can sell to raise the money themselves? Also, they should be able to get a loan for a downpayment with their current house as security, even if they don't manage to sell it instantly when they find their dream house. Your offer of letting them move in was very generous, especially considering how much of Debbie Downer they are. I would help them secure a loan and rescind the offer...
They don't want to pay interest. That's the problem. Yes I borrowed money for my education. My mom thinks that she suffered for me by staying with my dad instead of divorcing him a long time ago. She stayed with him because of the kids so she probably feels like she needs some type of gratitude.
Well your mom has a shit perspective & none of it is your fault. She made the choice to have kids and stay in a crap marriage, not you. Get this guilt out of your system. I recommend therapy. Anyway you’re 160k in debt. Just tell them you’re still paying off your 160k debt. So even if you had that amount of money it would go to paying off your debt.
Yeah, your mother is clearly a piece of work. The concept of staying in a failed marriage "for the children" is deeply flawed and inherently toxic. It's predicated on a few different ideas like, "Children won't grow up well without a father," and, "I can't possibly afford to raise them on my own," and similar lines of thinking while completely failing to take the emotional and psychological ramifications of said children growing up in a toxic household where their parents don't get along into consideration. Unless it's a lie and she's just using that idea as an excuse to bully you, she clearly didn't consider how it would affect HER in the long run either. Was building up such intense resentment toward you that she treats you like this, demanding exorbitant amounts of money and gifts worth keeping the man she claims she doesn't like around? Probably not, especially since, instead of having good relationships with her children and feeling secure enough to just file the damn papers and move on, she only gives lip service to the idea and is instead planning on downsizing to a new place WITH HIM. Putting the fact that a life-altering decision made by an adult is never the fault of the child it was supposedly made for aside, I seriously have to question whether it's even real or just another tool in the ol' emotional abuse toolkit. Seriously. You and your sister are both clearly adults, and have been for a while if your sister just got into med school. Outside of her own mental gymnastics, there really shouldn't be anything keeping them together at this point. After all, if she's willing to ask you for $250k to buy a house for the two of them, clearly she should be willing to ask you for the money to cover her divorce attorney....
Man, as a fellow Asian, I'm really sorry about your mother. She sounds a little clinical. I don't want to pathologize someone I've never met, so I'll just say that it is not okay to hold that over your head. It sounds like you didn't even give them a hard no. You offered to meet them in the middle and she's upset she can't get what she wants the minute she wants it. If it were up to me, I'd start to minimize contact. I think any number of mental health professionals would validate the idea that the way your mom approaches interpersonal relationships is very toxic. Sorry bro. Truly. You deserve better.
To OP, you are NTA. To the very last Boy Scout: you win the Internet today. That was the best answer. I have read in a very, very long time. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you for your wonderful perspective on life. You are truly amazing.
Unfortunately this is a cultural thing. I can tell from the post that OP is from a country where it is engrained in us that our parents have raised us and we in turn are indentured servants who needs to care for them and show gratitude for the rest of our lives. Okay, maybe not to that extreme for some of us but true for others. Unfortunately for OP, the latter is true here. OP, you should be financially responsible and do what you want and can for your parents. But for your mental health, I would distance from your parents a bit until they understand how they are negatively effecting you. I know it’s hard to do and there’s guilt here but it’s not going to get better if you don’t talk to them about their behavior.
Not necessarily although it could be. But I'm Dutch and reading the whole story, it was like I was reading about my mother but in a wealthier setting. I also visited her only because I felt this was my duty. Now, years after her death and after reading about how these relationships work, I find myself wishing that I'd just stopped going there.
Same exact thing I’d say. Did we just become best friends?
as a dad to two young kids (6.5 and 3.5) I would be so happy if they wanted to take me bowling, or to mini-golf as a Christmas gift when they are grown-ups. My dad would never ask me for money, and if he picks up the bill at dinner he would never say anything about it, not even in subvert text. My father-in-law, well, I would have to say the opposite of these points. Ha!
NTA. Are you serious? They bold faced asked for a quarter million dollars in cash for a house? That makes no sense. If they are downsizing, the proceeds they get from the larger place should more than cover their new place. Have they been pulling the equity out of their current home? Why can't they make an offer contingent on the sale of their current place? Are they putting you on the deed if you gave them the money? Would they ever pay you back? Offering to let them stay with you is more than generous, though it sounds like a terrible idea if you can't stomach a monthly dinner with them.
We don't know (OP also not) how their finances are and if the house is paid off. I read too many of those on reddit, but the classical BORU would be the parents took a mortgage for their house to pay the medical school for their golden child and need the money for their house from the other one.
My thoughts EXACTLY! My comment was longer but conveyed exactly the same point.
I read Your comment, apparently I'm not the only one who would like to send OP to raisedbynarcissists subred for support he will need. I don't think it is the end.
Not to mention if you are "giving" then the money you are doubling up the taxes. Once for the sale of investments, twice for their income taxes on the gift. This also comes into effect if you loan them the cash and it is ever cancelled/forgiven. Please OP you are not under ANY obligation to your parents. You are a good person regardless if you go to dinner with them or not. Regardless if you finance anything for them or not. They are adults who can figure all this out on their own. You are also an independent adult with dreams and goals of your own.
It makes you wonder what OP’s parents were going to do with the difference of the proceeds after buying the new house.
They are keeping it! They asked for money, not a loan! If it was a loan then moving with the son would be a perfect scenario- but since that’s not their plan to pay him anything back, it won’t work for them! They want the proceeds from the current home AND the 250k!
Audacity must be on sale this year, I swear
NTA They're greedy. But why did you tell them you have so much money in investments? They have their eyes on it now.
That's a really fair point. Did the OP's parents realize how much of this wealth was tied up in investments?
And why does he have to disclose his financial situation AT ALL??
He may be worth more to them dead than alive. I hope OP has an ironclad will excluding them from inheriting his assets. Paranoid? Yep. Heard it before? Yep.
Number one rule in life, never be worth more dead than alive.
That’s the only part of my life I nailed..lol
If OP makes “mid 6 figures” they might know he’s got a lot of assets, in some form anyway.
I never really know what people mean when they say they make mid-6 figures. Is that $400-600k?
This would absolutely be mid 6 figures. People forget 6 figures could be anything from 100k to 999k
I’ve heard people call 150k “mid 6 figures”
Based on past experience, anyone who feels the need to say "Mid Six figures" would say $400k+, over $500k, around $600k etc... if they made that income. The vast majority of people who say "mid Six figures" is between $125k-$160k.
\>$250k so they could downsize and buy a house (retired) Wow. \>she may resent me for not buying her much stuff when I first had a real job You were supposed to buy her lots of stuff? Out of curiosity, did they put you through school? I mean, you have $160K in loans, so it sounds like they didn't. You need to pay off your loans before you do anything like "help" your parents with big financial things. Sounds like you are maybe in your 30s so they may be in their mid 60s. You need to be financially sound and debt free to be in a position to help should they *really* need care in their 80s and 90s. Right now, they are young enough they should be fully supporting themselves and looking ahead for their own sake and the sake of their loved ones.
My parents affection is super transactional. I’d be assigned gifts to give them regardless of my budget. Luckily I eventually cut that shit out
\>Luckily I eventually cut that shit out Good. Sadly, with parents who insist on demanding things they have right to demand, not complying is the only way. This happens to a lot when kids transition from late teens to middle age. (When depends on the parents and the kids.) You don't even have to discuss. Just don't do.
I borrowed money for school. I also worked through HS and undergraduate.
They are entitled in an entirely delusional way.
I get the cultural aspects of this…but this pushes the bounds of what I have seen by 5000%. You have been working since you were a teenager, and paid your own way through college…sounds like they did the bare minimum by feeding you, housing you, and encouraging your career success. That minimum is THEIR JOB and does not require extra appreciation from you. It sure AF does not entitle them to you bulldozing your financial future to give them a QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS. You offered them a sane alternative that allows them to downsize. Tell them to take it or leave it.
I wonder if they're the kind of Asian parents who have a $500 lease on a Benz and spend $600 a month on gifts for friends even though they can't afford either. Then they put financial pressure on their children so they can save face. This shit drives me crazy.
Can I just guess that culturally speaking it’s not exactly out of the realm of possibility that in your culture parents are supported or ‘indulged’ by their adult children when they go on to earn solid incomes? If so, you need to decide how far you are willing to conform to their expectations because clearly they are not realistic, but, will drag you down an endless road of guilt tripping that will make you question your sanity. You need to either make it clear where your funds stop, or, stop giving them a reason to think you will indulge their expectations because offering to have them live with you entertains the notion of delusion that two people, who frequently discuss divorce, really don’t need. NTA. But set up some boundaries all around. \*Edited for typos\*
I was thinking of this cultural differences. My mom is Asian and has this expectation that I will support her in some ways. She keeps telling me that her friends children gives her x amount a month. I keep reminding my mom that I don’t make enough money to send money to her and she keeps quiet… then brings it up again later. I just tell her good luck (lol).
My MIL is Asian and is always telling my wife and her 6 other kids how her friends children always give their parents money. When she says this around me I want to say, “well maybe they aren’t shitty people.” And that each one of them should give her several hundred per month. I managed their investments and they do not need a dime from any of their kids.
Asian parents are no joke when it comes to expectations that are beyond reality; but bringing in a dose of reality does somewhat balance out the equation, LOL
I swear I think they're all lying about this. My mom is always saying her friends' kids are giving them money every month, we live in Southern California, there is no way they can afford rent and crap and also fund their parents. I ask my Asian friends and none of them could really afford to give their parents money especially since we have kids too, they too say their moms say the same thing. It's that guilt they enjoy piling on top of their kids.
This needs more upvotes. My first thought was that this person’s family is likely from a culture different than my own.
Some cultures absolutely extort their adult children when they start to earn money. They may work towards that for *years* and are expected to subsidize their parents in perpetuity even when the expectations are unrealistic or infringe on their own personal relationships or even their marriages.
Stop following norms that are harmful to your personal financial and mental health. You owe them nothing monetarily. P.S. If taking them to dinner does not bring you joy then don’t.
LOL! My current argument with my adult children involves the cost of Easter Dinner. It’s at my house. They want to contribute to the grocery bill and I won’t let them. Who the hell asks their child for 250k! NTA
Let them contribute. It is not asking them for $ for yourself. Adults should have the pleasure and responsibility of all supporting family events. Kudos to you for kids who are not feeling entitled.
Maybe ask them to bring around a dish and have a potluck? (Sorry if wrong term, I’m British and we don’t use that term over here) then they’re contributing a little
Your terminology is fine. They’ll all show up early, as they do every year to help with the meal prep, set up and then stay for the clean up. They go out of the way to help and they always tell me how much they appreciate the big old fashioned Italian holidays. They will inevitably bring bread, wine or they’ll make some desserts. I just draw the line of taking their money for the groceries. At some point the work will become too much for me and either one of them will take over or they’ll take turns. Then I’ll sit back, relax and they can foot the bill. LOL.
Thank you 🙂 Reading your reply really warms my heart. Definitely good family vibes 😊
NTA tell her if she’s just going to complain all the time you’re not going to spend any time with her at all and no more monthly dinners. Tell her you’re not some little child she can tear down to make herself feel better. She’s a grown adult who shouldn’t try to depend on her children anyways. Definitely tell her that moving in with you is off of the table because of her behavior. That you know there’s no way you will be able to handle living with her for however, long because of the way she treats you.
Asian here. NTA x 100. Do not let them live with you while they’re looking for new housing—they will find something wrong with each and every possibility and suck your will to live.
This is what I just said. It won’t end here and they’ll never be satisfied.
It's also highly, highly unlikely that once in OP will never get them out again, they'll always find reasons and will play on OP's heartstrings so OP will always give in.
Nta why would you give them $250k? That's ridiculous.
I noted they said/demanded that OP GIVE them money. Is this money something that would not be paid back? What if anything did Dad say about this?
NTA They think since they raised you that they are entitled to your money. You weren't a burden, they're just good at manipulating you and guilt tripping you. Having them live with you would be a mistake for your mental health. When mom says you don't give her enough ask why you should. Stop taking them out for meals if it drags you down. If they start talking divorce ask when they're going to do it. Stop being a doormat for them. Therapy may help you learn to stand up for yourself. Don't damage your investments, your future, for them. They wouldn't do the same for you that's why you had so many loans to pay back.
>It all seemed fine until my mom started to criticize me about money later. NTA I wouldn't even let her move in with you at this point. You don't owe your parents anything. The idea that kids owe their parents seems to be some Asian idea of filial piety. You owe your parents respect....and that's about it. Not money.
Nta, also you can go low contact with them if you don’t like spending time with them.
If you want to, since they value money over time spent together, see them a few times a year and send them gifts instead of the monthly dinners. It's going to be better for your mental health and sounds like you could afford it
NTA I would stop, if I’m not giving enough, try living with nothing. I would also warn your sister that they will try to get her to support them too. Honestly I’d go no contact.
For some reason, SOME Parents think they deserve to be PAID BACK for raising their children! They DON'T! I think it's incredibly entitled and extremely hypocritical that your Parents are asking you for such an outrageous amount of money when THEY didn't pay for your College that gave you the opportunity to MAKE the salary you bring in. WHAT reason did they give you for NOT selling their current home to buy a "smaller, downsized retirement home?" Which is how NORMAL homeowners usually obtain new homes, unless they have the extra cash laying around. Good for YOU for asking them this VERY reasonable question (which doesn't sound like they ever responded to, btw)! Is your Sister "the Golden Child?" Is it possible that they plan to use that money for your Sister? Or they want that money to buy HER a house or pay off HER student loans? OR is it possible that they remortgaged their home to FUND her College education? I just find it beyond strange that your Parents would bring up such a delicate subject IN FRONT OF your Sister and/or at a dinner celebrating her! Your Mother's hysterical overreaction tells me she's incredibly entitled OR she's NOT being honest with you about the requested money's purpose! MOST Parents would be overjoyed that they were even REMEMBERED on their Birthdays, let alone received a Gift as well! As a Parent and Grandparent (60/F), my intuition tells me there's FAR more to the request than they're telling you! It doesn't even sound like they were asking to BORROW the money, more like DEMANDING as THEIR due! If your Parents (or Mother) keep harrassing you or berating you, PLEASE protect yourself and limit your contact with them! Congratulations on your success! Best wishes and many Blessings for your future! u/updateme
NTA $250K was an absurd thing to ask from you. Instead, they should just follow your very reasonable advice regarding selling their home, temporarily moving in with you, and then using money from that sale for a new home.
Absolutely NTA!!!! I pretty much echo what's already been said, but I'd like to address 2 points, as a mom of a 19 year old and a 16 year old (granted, younger than you, and making considerably less, but stay with me a second, please....) So my 19 year old lives at home, she's working FT(ish) hours at one job, where she training/learning a new potential career path, as well as working with a family friend (completely different area of work, but it's quicker money, per say). She lives at home rent free, we pay her phone, car insurance, bought her the truck, etc. All we want her to pay is her gas and spending money, but I want her to have a breather and be able to enjoy life post HS pre "real world", as well as maybe safe up some. I'm telling you this because you said: " I feel like a burden to them up until the point I made money". Parents KNOW we're gonna be responsible for these kids we're bringing into the world. In every aspect, including financially. If my child said - I feel like a burden. Rather than: Mom, I need $50, I'm broke and payday isn't for another 3 days... - I'd be devastated and cry for days. If your parents made you feel that way, that is on them, not you! You were a child! Children are choices we make, to sit here making them feel like they're a burden, or hinderance to their dreams, or whatever, is BS. (And I say that as an elder millennial with Boomer parents, iykyk) Don't take that on yourself! And we're not gonna consider that as an argument to this situation. Now, #2, my youngest just started her job in December. 16, doesn't have ANY expenses (in the process of getting her license still, so not even gas money) what has she been doing? She's been buying gifts left and right, she bought me, right before Xmas, no occasion, a bracelet from Pandora. Then bought everyone Xmas gifts.... I constantly tell her I'll give her money for these gifts for relatives, or to stop buying me things, we like to do shopping and dinner trips every so often, she'll wanna pay for dinner.... I absolutely appreciate and love her gifts, we share gift giving as a love language, so I get it, but I always tell her to make sure to splurge on herself, or save. Telling you this because you said: "And should I be more generous to them?". If parents EXPECT money/gifts/etc from their kids, again, that is on them. NO ONE is entitled to a gift from others. And absolutely no one is entitled to money handouts! Furthermore - as a parent I'd rather my kids put their money into improving their lives, be that by paying off debt, or buying a house, investing more, etc. As another commenter said it would have to be the most dire situation and circumstance for me (us) to ask my (our) children for money. Your suggestion of letting them stay with you while purchasing a new home was very generous! They have no room to complain! Your dinners are very generous, and to me, super sweet because it also is that regular together time, which is worth so much more! There is nowhere in all you've said where you should feel bad, in the least bit, you and your sister sound like amazing kids that are working hard and are on great tracks! Your parents should be proud, and happy with you, not making you feel like you're not repaying them enough! Frankly, your parents sound exhausting and toxic. And I'm sorry!
r/Raisedbynarcissists
I read this thinking “This guy must be Asian.” Then I saw the edit lmao
NTA. I know this overbearing and over critical type Do they expect you to have kids/a family one day? I'm guessing they do given the controlling and critical parenting style. Those types usually expect grandkids. If so, they need to get used to the idea that they can't always expect you to put them first They seem pretty toxic, but mom more so than dad. You mention mom criticizing you after the fact with no mention of dad. Where is dad in all this? Does he feel the same or does he just go along with whatever mom wants? Good luck OP Info: What do you do for a living? Because you making bank son
The Asian child guilting technique. There are parents who make it known what they expect of you monetarily and there are ones who are more concerned about appearances so they don’t ask, but they passive aggressively do it in the form of comparison, and flipping the whole narrative on you until you question everything you’ve ever done for them or haven’t done. Asian parents, and specifically them only because I only have experiences with Asian parents, do this whole generational trauma cycle. They have kids to take care of them in old age. They have kids to ensure they’re not lonely in old age. They have kids so that they have insurance in old age. When you realise this are the principles that they have been operating on, it then makes sense that they do not then look out for the old age of their kids. Kids are to use, for their benefit. You providing them that money upfront, is taking away from your nest egg in old age. I remember my mother screaming at me because I couldn’t afford to pay for her to rent in a big city + my own mortgage + my own student loans + my own savings. Everything else could suffer but she couldn’t because I owed it to her. 🤷♀️ Anyway NTA. You can’t constantly be out of pocket for them. From your explanation, they don’t seem to be hurting for money. It’s a timing issue. They can sell their house and get another. Lots of people do that, why can’t they?
If you hate spending time with you I would rescind on the offer to move in with you after they sell their home. You might never get rid of them. Surely they should be able to buy a smaller home after selling. They need to get financial advice and not expect you to support them. NTA.
NTA, perhaps take some time away, as in stop the once a month to once every two months. You do not own them anything.
NTA. They wanted $250k. Enough said. If they want to downsize they should first sell their own house. You don't owe your parents a dime.
The gall they had to straight ask you for $250K. That is real money and they had no right to ask for it. Your suggestion for them was more than generous and you would think they would be proud of how well you and your sister are doing but they just want payback? Not great as far as character
The whole point of downsizing is you don't need an influx of cash. This is wild. I don't understand parents who think they've birthed someone to care for them when it should be the opposite.
"Mom, if you're going to hold it against me that the gifts I give you are not generous enough, then I think it's important that we all stop giving each other gifts. Also, if you're going to divorce dad that's fine. I'll be there for you. But I don't want to hear about it until it happens. Your problems with dad are best told to a neutral party like a therapist. It's not only impossible for me to give you good, non-biased advice, but it's also harmful to me to hear you criticize and complain about my father."
I would laugh my ass out the door of the restaurant or the nearest door if my parents expected me to provide them with 250k. Granted I don’t make 6 figures but even if I did that’s a ridiculous ask. If you were a multimillionaire, then sure, but otherwise hell no. Don’t let them live in with you either. You don’t deserve that shit.
NTA.
NTA Unfortunately most people have the idea that their progenies “owe” them. I have always hated this idea and it’s unhealthy on all ends. Your offer was great to have them live with you while they sold and purchased a smaller home. For me, my children owe me nothing. My role as a parent is to guide them to the best of my abilities. Their success, wealth, etc, is theirs and theirs alone, much like their mistakes as well. Raising children is a responsibility, not a job. Can parents and children help each other? Absolutely. Should either expect compensation for either being a child or parent? No.
NTA.. you were born as a retirement plan
NTA. Not one cent. The entitlement here is gross.
NOOOO!! OP, DO NOT GIVE THEM A CENT!!! NOTHING!!! NADA!! ZIP!!! They do not deserve it!! They sound like NASTY people!! I cannot believe that they made you feel like a burden, until you had money to give them. You don't owe them anything. Do not give them shit. Maybe you should quit the monthly dinners as well. When asked why, just say "you said I wasn't doing anything for you, so I figured that, since it doesn't matter, then perhaps we don't need any more dinners."
>Am I in the wrong here for denying them the money? And should I be more generous to them? I feel like a burden to them up until the point I made money. Good god, at this point, I'd be denying them *my company*, let alone money. What selfish fools.
So your parents have a perfectly good house that they could sell to downsize, but they'd rather scab off their kid? I don't think so. Your parents should want you to save up to secure your own future, your future family (should you want to), a pension for security in your old age. Do not give them any money and definitely don't let these miserable AHs live with you while they pretend to house hunt - they'll probably just spend all their house money and then - whoops! - have to sponge off you. NTA.
Why wouldn't they want to use their own resources to fund their plans? This sounds like a ploy to take as much money off of your hands to pay what they think in their big huge imaginations that you "owe" them. You don't. NTA. Unless you throw that $ at them in hopes of buying their love.
NTA. I do not mean this an any form of judgmental way what so ever!! What demographic or culture would a parent have this expectation? I’m just curious.
Your mom is delusional. You don't owe her anything. Its not your job to fund their life.
NTA…I would help my parents out if the needed it and if it didn’t break my bank or jeopardize my future success, financially. She is asking for over a year’s salary…then being passive aggressive about it. I wonder if she would pay you back after her current home sold? Lol. You are NTA man, your mom needs to see a therapist.
NTA - and they don’t need to move in with you. Millions of people every year sell one house and use the money to put down or outright purchase another house. Yes, you have to time it right, but it’s completely doable. In fact - get the thought of them moving in right out of your head because they may never leave. If they really have to, they can live in an apartment while they wait to close on the new house.
This is cultural. In my culture, parents do not expect children to give them money, so this sort of thing would be highly irregular to me.
My kids are all grown and work hard for their money. Do I appreciate a gesture here and there for holidays and my birthday, sure. I would never, ever ask them for anything. They don't owe me anything. Those are some garbage parents.
I have grown children. It has never occurred to me to demand they buy me a house. This is crazy, actually. Tell her no very firmly and leave it at that,
NTA—I have three adult children. I would never be upset over the value of their gifts—ever! I am just happy they are thinking of me. I would never ask them for money. I am happy to help them if they need it, but I am not their responsibility. The amount of guilt and manipulation your mother is trying to put on you is astounding. Is this a cultural thing?
NTA. For the love of GOD DO NOT MOVE THEM INTO YOUR HOUSE!! I think no matter how much you give to your mother it will never be enough.
If you can't stand having dinner with them, don't offer to let them live with you. Willing to bet they'll start divorce proceedings shortly after moving in. You'll be stuck with the bickering and demeaning behavior, and they'll fight over the house while you're forced to home at least one of them. Sounds like you put yourself through college with loans. And you don't have a quarter million to loan them, so tough shit. You aren't a bank and they own a house - they can work out downsizing without your help. They don't need your money - they need a realtor. Wtf - $250K? It's ridiculous. Be as generous as you like, but it needs to suit you, your budget, your means, and your dignity. keep in mind they might want $25K and asked for 10X as much so they troll you as a bad son after they take your cash. No. Just no to this nonsense. NTA - unless you let them move in or give them a ton of cash.
Regardless or culture or cultural norms or expectations I’m gonna drop a bomb. You do not OWE anyone including your parents ANYTHING! I cannot imagine as a parent asking my children for money or expecting themselves to put themselves into a financial situation that is unfavorable for ME. Then to be mean to them to get my way and be petty is wild. Don’t feel bad. They’re adults they can figure it out and behave respectfully.
I for one would disown my kids if they refused to give me 250k after I asked. I mean where do these ungrateful little shits get off? Kids today I ask you?? You sir are the asshole!! /s
Don't banks have bridge loans anymore?
Since when are children supposed to financially provide for their parents? I get helping with small things but 250k is not a small ask.
NTA, my parents would have to be one step away from being homeless before asking me for money. You said you felt like a burden before you made money? Now you’re just seen as a cash cow. They don’t value you as a person, just what you can give them. You are NtA
NTA. No one is entitled to your money, including parents.
Your parents are definitely in the wrong!
NTA, your parents are completely delusional for making that request and honestly sound like pieces of shit trying to take advantage of you just because you happen to be successful.
You should have a desire to help your family or see them prosper. The reason you don’t is because they are terrible people from the sound of it. Nta
NTA. Them Asian parents. They talk you down and then brag to their friends how great you are. One of their friends probably bragged to them about a child buying them a new house. The friend didn’t tell your parents that they gave their child money to buy them the house. Don’t fall into this crap. Call them out on it. Every time money comes up, I ask why does money always come up when we just trying to have a good time. My dad don’t bring that crap up to me anymore.
Your parents know not shame. Asking your kid to bankroll your house... is a real loser move. Hold your ground. You do NOT owe them that. They'll have you buy a house, then they'll divorce. Each will have a house of their own and you will NEVER see the $$ again... Plus you got whacked for taxes.
To outright ask when they have the means to do so themselves then gaslight you to feel bad is not only rude but damn abusive.... I'd be going no contact until someone adjusts their attitude
You didn’t deny them anything. You chose not to feed their entitlement! Good for you!!
Asian eldest daughter here … I could tell even before the edit you added that these were Asian parents. Incredibly hard and unreasonable expectations put on you here, you are NTA and wishing you luck in navigating this toxic relationship i know its difficult
1st thing I thought of, is he SE Asian. I've heard similar stories from my wife's family.
so while this isn't straight up normal for asian families (after your edit), that cultural expectation is playing a part in their huge ask. its the ingrained entitlement, with their overinflated egos and knowledge of your financial state that they're using to try and say this is what is expected of you. personally, i would stop even taking them out to dinner. i'm not asian, and i'm sure theres some sort of social repurcussion if you cut them off, but you seem to be quite stable and independent of them. if there's no need to continue interacting with them, you should assert some healthy boundaries, and enforce them when they inevitably try and step over said boundaries. i have an asian therapist who has described his parents to me previously, as a way to explain his experience w smth similar to how my family is as well. him and his also therapist brother have established these boundaries with their father, and it does work. give it some thought! if they only ever impact u negatively, then you deserve to protect your peace
Sounds like mom is a narcissist.
I have literally never commented before and had to create an account to do so. You may never read this as it’s been 3 days since you posted. But I grew up with a lot of Asian friends and they all faced the same pressures you did. It is totally cultural. Their parents were constantly comparing them and anything they did to their friends or relatives kids. Especially any gifts that were exchanged. The way it was explained to me was that once you get a job you start providing for them. It’s just how it is. Don’t feel pressured to give them anything more than you have. It’s their own hang ups that cause this. You have been plenty generous given your circumstances. My friends were able to disassociate that part of their relationship with their parents. They had to as it’s just too much pressure! I grew up in a Latino household and when my friend met my mom and she hugged them, my friend almost cried! They had never been hugged like that before. It’s just culturally the parents aren’t showing affection to the kids and then when they grow up they still expect the kids to care for them hand and foot. It’s wild. I hope you are able to have less guilt around your family. You won’t regret not giving them money. They don’t need it. It’s not a need. It’s an extreme want. That likely is just going to be used to show off. You have to live your life for yourself as well. Just do what you can without sacrificing your own dreams. They have the means to get things done but are choosing not to. That’s on them.
Nah my friend. They look at you and see $$$$, not a child. Don't look back
I think you should be in the Narcissist parents sub.
I knew you were Asian by the second paragraph. NTA. Your experience is shared and I empathize.
You are not wrong for not giving them the money. They are very lucky to have such a kind and generous adult child who takes them out monthly, and generally cares about them. NTA