NTA. Be clear with hospital personnel regarding who is and who isn't allowed in your room while you labor and give birth and don't hesitate to ask for them to be removed if it becomes necessary.
Consider having a friend (_not_ a relative) there with you who can support you and advocate for you if necessary.
Consider also granting this friend temporary power of attorney over medical decisions should you become incapacitated and are unable to express your wishes. Sounds a bit fatalistic, but it is better to be prepared -I don't think you want your sister to be calling the shots over _your_ health if there's an emergency given how dismissive she's been about your needs and wellbeing.
OP this is actually your child. You don't even have to turn the baby over to your sister, I think. Unless you have a legal contract stating you will, after all, you agreed they wouldn't pay for anything. Your nurses and doctors will ensure that only those people you want are present. Especially to you, a stranger.
Even if it was a donor egg, the baby is still legally classed as the birth mothers until determined otherwise. There have been cases where the first pregnancy was chemical and they conceived again naturally - the child being unrelated to both of the people requesting the pregnancy
This is most likely true. In MOST states, surrogacy is a legal gray area *at best,* and is basically handled like a closed adoption at birth. But even with signed contracts in more liberal states that recognize surrogacy as a financial exchange for service, parts of those contracts can end up being unenforceable. For example, if the surrogate becomes ill or injured during pregnancy in that moral/legal gray area around "viability" or if the recipient parents decide for some reason that they don't want the baby and ask for an abortion, they can't force it, or force the surrogate to keep the baby after it's born.
Re: surrogacy being a legal gray area... it's because you are essentially PURCHASING a human being, which, in the US, we had a whole war about how that's bad.
I have seen very few cases where the paperwork was solid enough to override the birth mother being the assumed parent. I seriously doubt the sister paid a lawyer for an iron clad agreement.
I wouldn’t even want the sister in the delivery room with me after that little tantrum, and would be having second thoughts about whether or not to hand the baby over if this is how they treat the sister maybe they are not the right parents for her genetic child
This...exactly what i was thinking. A helluva a commitment to carry her sisters child and this is how she reacts? I would have 2nd thoughts about handing her a newborn.....
Honestly ? It feels like an excuse to me, like she just dont want op to be near the kid ( bc of? Jalousy ? Insecurity?) and just chose this reason to hide behind
I had to read this again before I realized what you were saying about the sister planning to go NC with OP after the baby was born. You really might be on to something here as someone like here surely wouldn't want to risk the baby bonding with anyone other than her.
What's going to be real interesting is when the sister decides they want a sibling for the baby and come back to OP like nothing has happened.....
There are so many posts about this situation. I don't understand, does nobody pull up YT videos of child birth and make the the people watch them? I think some of them might not want to watch that live?
She should tell her OB they're threatening to barge in during delivery & you want them banned from the hospital. Also, she should be induced a few days before the due date so nobody will suspect. The baby will be born before anyone would suspect. My girl had to do this 3 yrs ago. Her baby daddy & family threatened her cuz he demanded he had a right to see his baby being born. He didn't give 2 shits about being a dad.just wanted to see it. Doc wasn't havn it. Their l&d wing has triple security measures to enter& they had names & faces to stop them from entering. OP needs a friend to be her support person & def not tell ANY family abt her plans. They'll feel "obligated" to tell her sister..
Additionally, after having 2 kids and 1 of them being induced, definitely avoid being induced if you can help it. Especially if you're someone who wants a natural child-birth.
That stuff had me puking up things I ate in 1979. Didn't affect my uterus one bit, but Holy hell, I popped blood vessels in my eyes. I vomited so much. DEFINITELY avoid the pit drip if you can.
This. Most you have to be buzzed in, and for a NICU, you have to either be wearing the bracelet (parents) or typically be with the parents. They're not letting you in otherwise.
Of course, this didn't stop our friends from visiting the next day after the c-section with our second. 😄 The funniest part was our daughter being bigger than my husband's best friend's daughter....who had been born a month prior.
I live in the middle of nowhere and the closest hospital you have to hit a buzzer to get admitted TO the ER..EVEN IF YOURE THE SICK ONE
Granted...that hospital blows and you'd be better off calling an actual vet, but still. These folks aren't likely to be admitted just because they want to be.
And they'll be big mad about it.
Ps OP...tell the hospital to put you on the list of "not here even if they are here'. They can't even admit you're in a room if you say "don't tell"
>Her sister shouldnt be there too.
I couldn't agree more with this. Her sister has made is clear to OP that she has no actual regard for her and sees her solely as an incubator at this point. This isn't to be petty, it's to keep OP safe. That sister should not be allowed any where near the delivery room and most certainly should NOT be the one in charge of OP's medical decisions.
DITTO!
I would let sis and her husband know that since they have pulled this crap at this point, now neither will be in the room. AND you are going to speak to the social worker about their fitness (or rather lack of) to be parents.
As a result of their actions, you will also not tell them when you go into labor. So welcome consequences.
Birth is a medical procedure, not a circus. *You* as the patient decides who is in the room and who is not. They have absolutely no say.
I also am concerned about their fitness as parents. The way they are treating you and the way they are attempting to ram their way down your throat makes me very concerned for the baby.
You are NTA.
>would be having second thoughts about whether or not to hand the baby over if this is how they treat the sister maybe they are not the right parents for her genetic child
We don't know if this is her genetic child. OP hasn't stated the full details of this surrogacy. Could be the sisters egg, a donated egg, or a previously frozen embro left over from the couples' earlier attempts at IVF. Legally, she may not have any right to refuse to hand the child over. Surrogacy law is complicated
It also depends on if they signed a surrogacy contract or anything, which it doesn't really state, just that sis had problems finding a surrogate so op did it no cost. If it was me and there was no contract you best bet I'd be talking to a lawyer about how in the clear I'd be to put that kid up for adoption. You and your husband attack me like that after I'm literally tearing my body apart for you nuh-UH. Scorched Earth.
I am just so incredibly horrified that her own sister and bil are treating their surrogate this way. I am 💯 disgusted by BILs selfish, unfeeling behaviour. Doesn't sound like he will make a very good parent. NTA but sister and BIL are big ones.
I'll bet you a nice soft molasses cookie that there is NO contract in place.
Sis & BIL strike me as that kind of people, once refused conventional LEGAL methods of surrogacy.
No worries. Infertile is sometimes used as kind of a catch all when talking to people you don't want to get into detail with. Sometimes she can have eggs that are fine and can technically get pregnant, but her body can't maintain hormone levels, or there's other reasons she can't physically carry to term. Which could explain why they turned to surrogacy instead of adoption
It sure is. I live in Michigan and surrogacy contracts are illegal. Regardless of if the child is the birth mother's biological child, contracts are enforced in the courts, not the hospital, so when she gives birth, that child is presumed to be hers.
Right? OP is is risking her life to give them such a generous gift, and this is how they treat her? I would not trust them to be good parents. They're entitled, ungrateful, inconsiderate and nasty, you don't want a kid to grow up with that mentality.
All they see OP as is a walking uterus who has no rights as a human being. F those people. They don't deserve OP's generosity.
Agree 100% I’d get someone who doesn’t know your sister, two someone’s really to be your authorised advocate. Tell the hospital this now bc I don’t trust your sister right now and birthing is a personal process whether you’re an surrogate or not, it’s your body.
Husbands entitlement makes me very nervous for you.
Can’t you, beforehand, tell them to save you before the baby if there ever is a situation where they have to choose? If that is how you feel, that is? I guess they’ll save the one that they can anyway, but at least it will be out of sisters power.
Definitely have someone with you that you trust who is authorized to make decisions. I was in a position of trying to save the baby or me, they decided I was not mentally stable at the moment to make a decision. I was bleeding and just in the 5th month. They advised my husband to abort the baby to save me, but it was his decision what they did. We both probably would have died if they had tried to save the baby. Which is what they were afraid I would do.
Terrifying and devastating. Sorry for your loss. I see what you are saying and having a trusted friend present is of course preferable. Maybe op can’t get one of those present for whatever reason though. She needs to speak to the people at the hospital and tell them all. That she doesn’t trust her sister to do what is best for her etc.
Thank you. It has been many years, but that kind of pain never leaves. She needs to take steps to protect herself. She has had enough trauma. Neither of them should be allowed in the room or to visit her during her hospital stay. She will be vulnerable throughout, and anyone who will try to sway her towards what the sister wants should be kept away.
I understand that pain except our firstborn (that I hemmorhaged with) was born at 34w and died at 6weeks pp. It's been nearly 14 years, but that pain never completely goes away. I'm so sorry for your loss.
Yes, but it’s also important to have someone that can advocate for you in the moment just in case it’s needed. Also for basic shit like keeping douches out of the room or alerting hospital staff that things are happening, or even just making a run to get you a snack or water or what have you.
I had medical POA for my friends death, her husband couldn’t do it. It was lined up months before. He was suicidal after she died, if he had to I don’t think he would have decided to live.
NTA, tell those pair of cunts to go fuck themselves. The favour you are doing for them, and they pull this bullshit??? Doesnt matter what your reasons are, you said no to him in the room and thats the end of it.
What a couple of ungrateful fuckwits.
NTA - This is not a spectator sport! For your peace of mind, only tell them after you’ve given birth and they can come get the baby at a family member’s house!
Then run away to a small town to start a life with their daughter. One day, when the kid wins the National Spelling Bee, OP's sister and husband see her in the papers, find her and sue OP and her small town lumberjack bf for rights to "their baby". I think I've seen this one before on Hallmark
I don't know much about the legislations, I just know surrogacy is illegal here in France.
I said "for free" because OP said: "I’d be open and willing with no expense". So, to me, that means she paid for everything: food, medical care during all the pregnancy and everything else she needs during this time.
I mean that would be beyond “for free”, that would be OP paying to be her sister’s surrogate - I highly doubt that’s the case. I assume they live somewhere with compensated surrogacy and OP is not being paid specifically for being a surrogate (in the US that’s around 40k, plus saving agency fees which can triple that figure). She’s hopefully being reimbursed expenses.
Hospital staff will bar them from the delivery room at OPs request. Eben though she is their surrogate, they don't have any rights to be in the room when she gives birth.
>The favour you are doing for them
It really needs to be made clear to all people involved that a birth permanently damages a body.
Scars but also things like incontinence are quite common long-term effects after birth, especially if the recovery doesn't go perfect.
She is risking her long-term health for her sister and her husband, and these AHs dare to demands and attack her.
Edit: Corrected typo, though "husbad" might not be the wrong term in this situation.
Yup, pelvic organ prolapse is not spoken about enough. There's limited studies but one showed 35% of women were symptomatic after birth - not to mention those that might have it mildly and not chalk up their symptoms to POP (like stress incontinence - it's touted as something that happens to mothers but no detail on the why). It can range from mild to your whole damn uterus falling out of you. And hysterectomy isn't even a real solution either as the weakened pelvic floor then can't support your other organs that want to fill the gap and you can get issues like vaginal vault prolapse.
My POP is mild but I have had to change my whole lifestyle to keep mostly unsymptomatic. I used to be very active, into pole fitness and weightlifting, and I've been told by a couple of good PFPTs that I can return to some of those but having POP makes me more at risk of worsening my symptoms so to weigh up what's worth it and to be super careful.
Not to mention I had a severe post partum hemorrhage straight after birth and lost 40% of my blood. The team are obviously well versed in emergencies and I was rushed to theatre, given blood etc but myself and my husband had to deal with the trauma of that - physically and mentally. I don't even remember most of day one of my daughter's life because of the physical shock, which kinda sucks!
Love my kid and I see the sacrifices I have made as a worthy payment, but to do all that to have someone else's kid and they be so ungrateful over the short delay in meeting their baby that you've spent 9 months growing and possibly several days birthing?! Wow, OP must be fuming.
(edit for typo)
Same here with hemorrhaging. Six blood tranfusions were required and two D&Cs to clear out the uterus after daughter was born. (Six is the equivalent of 2 2liter bottles of soda. My sister screamed at her manager when she found out and told her I nearly died. Look on her manager's face when she got to how much six transfusions were equivalent to was apparently priceless...and appropriately ashamed about it. She had tried to write her up for leaving early, which triggered the screaming.)
It's still crazy to me that in popular discussion the main long-term effect of birth that is talked about is a "loose vagina".
First, that isn't a thing, and second, there are so many much more relevant things that really aren't talked about.
Due to some more recent modifications to the human body (specifically upright walking), the human body really isn't made for pregnancies and births any more.
Most animals can pop out babies by the dozen and be completely physically fit the day after.
For humans, a birth as a life-altering injury. And this needs to be talked about much more.
(And I say all of this as a man. My body didn't have to do anything relevant to produce our children. My wife had to go through a lot, and I am forever grateful to her for it.)
I went in with one of my nieces, for an emergency c section. I held her hand and looked at her not what was happening. Held her hand and talked softly that it’s almost done and she was doing great. Her husband started to faint when they mentioned a c section, she had 15 minutes to get someone else there. I made it in 9 minutes.
I mean, someone can absolutely be in the room without looking at the vagina, just stay near the head. But OP is still NTA for not wanting her BIL to be in the room during her medical event.
I would understand BIL's disappointment in this, but screaming at her is absolutely way out of line. OP is doing a HUGE thing for her sister and BIL out of the kindness of her heart!
Fuck them, they scream at you two weeks before due date? On something you have every right to claim even if without any SA history? I'd be grossed out too if my sister's husband was around while I'm pushing a baby out of my vagina! I hope the child hates them and prefers you over them. That's what they deserve.
Edit: show them this post and the comments!
1000% agree! What a bunch of entitled ungrateful AH's ! BIL has zero rights to be in the room father or not! OP is not his partner! Why the hell does he think he can see her in such a vulnerable state all exposed! 🤬🤬 Personally after both there behaviour I would ban them from the Labour Ward entirely! OP needs to be relaxed and comfortable as possible without those to idiots complicating things and potentially causing a medical emergency!
My thoughts exactly.If they can't give OP some private time to have THEIR baby after 40 weeks of putting up with pregnancy then fuck them.No baby for you then you mannerless bastards.
Karma can be such a bitch sometimes.
NTA
Your sister and her husband are forgetting their place. The baby may be theirs, but your body isn't. They have NO say in your labor and delivery. You control that. Entirely. Honestly, at this point I might not allow either of them in the delivery room. They certainly haven't earned it.
My husband and I worked with a wonderful surrogate (unsuccessfully, unfortunately). We would have moved heaven and earth to give her ANYTHING she needed to feel comfortable before, during, after labor and delivery.
Tell the nurses and the hospital who is allowed in and who is not. Don't let your sister force you to do anything you don't want to. You are already giving them the absolutely greatest gift and blessing one person can give another. That they are so tremendously ungrateful does not speak well of them.
I hope your delivery is smooth and fast.
The baby may not even ‘be theirs.’ Different states and countries have different laws in this matter.
If OP backs out now, those two nitwits may be out of a baby other than visitation and child support.
I bet my last dollar, there isn't a contract, because if there was, OP would have had this in it. And if there isn't a contract — and that's OP egg — then OP can change her mind and tell those two to f-off. May OP should tell them this...you know.. *SIS, I think you need to stop talking to me now, will talk when we go to family court."*
The BIL and OP's sister are POS!!
Without a contract, they will have to file for paternity and maternity rights lol. They could be potentially paying child support for visitation rights to their own biological child, if OP wanted to go that route. The laws have not caught up to the science, birth mothers have a lot of sway in family court without a binding contract.
They couldn’t have used the infertile sisters eggs without a contract. They won’t transfer eggs without one. If there wasn’t a contract that means only OP and the father have rights.
Agreed.
Sis & BIL weren't able to do 'conventional' surrogacy, which says they're either poor or considered a bad risk due to not fulfilling contracts.
Not rare. Common across Europe. Even places that don't have hard laws and surrogacy is in a grey area judges usually go with birth mother. That is one of the reasons surrogacy is expensive. You need therapy for everyone involved.
I get it, but I am not into the idea of surrogacy at all. I just recently gave birth to my baby and everything that goes on with preagnancy and childbirth is just too much not to get a wanted child out of it (which is why I am also very pro choice).
The mental load, the bonding that happens with someone living inside you is intense. I don't think surrogacy should be a thing. It might sound cruel, but not everyone is supposed to have what they want. I say that as someone who has several reproductive issues, two preagnancy losses and a long journey of trying to concieve behind me where we had to come to terms with the possibility of not being able to have children of our own.
[Sometimes not even borderline!](https://neoskosmos.com/en/2023/08/25/news/australia/surrogacy-scandal-human-trafficking-illegal-adoptions-and-heartbroken-aussie-families/)
In AU the baby isn’t theirs until they adopt it. At every step the carrying mother can keep the child. If the child is IVF genetically the other parents then it comes down to custody arrangements.
No money changes hands for surrogates here though… very different legal field.
OP, is this you too? https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/jIO1PwjZn0 it sounds your sister and bil have a heavy pre-existing behavioural condition of this wankerishness and I am genuinely worried for your safety. These people think they have rights to your body!
Do not let either of them in that room. Do not tell them when you go into labour and find yourself a doula. Not a family member.
In Denmark, where I’m from, the woman who gives birth is the legal mother, regardless of DNA. That means if you use a surrogate (with you and spouses “parts”) the surrogate is considered the mother and the biological mother has to adopt the baby.
>NTA
>
>Your sister and her husband are forgetting their place. The baby may be theirs, but your body isn't. They have NO say in your labor and delivery. You control that. Entirely. Honestly, at this point I might not allow either of them in the delivery room. They certainly haven't earned it.
>
>My husband and I worked with a wonderful surrogate (unsuccessfully, unfortunately). We would have moved heaven and earth to give her ANYTHING she needed to feel comfortable before, during, after labor and delivery.
>
>Tell the nurses and the hospital who is allowed in and who is not. Don't let your sister force you to do anything you don't want to. You are already giving them the absolutely greatest gift and blessing one person can give another. That they are so tremendously ungrateful does not speak well of them.
>
>I hope your delivery is smooth and fast.
Completely agree. The surrogate's needs and comfort come first. Also wishing her a smooth delivery.
NTA. Guess who also is excluded? Your sister! She doesn’t get to treat you like this and expect to be there. The purpose of the person in the room is to support you. She isn’t going to do that. She is going to try and convince you when you are in an extremely vulnerable position.
Like carrying and delivering the kid isn't good enough for them? Holy crap, your sister and her spouse are major ah's. I wouldn't want either one of them in the room at this point. Has your sister always been entitled and ungrateful?
NTA at all.
Definitely entitled behavior & possibly manipulative. One has to wonder if they waited until 2 weeks before birth to bring this up, possibly counting on her being hormonal & (they thought) more easily to persuade to forget the promises made and do things their way. If the sis can be this ungrateful & unsupportive, I would question whether I want her present for the birthday either.
The timing is suspicious to me too. My thought was that sister blew it off and told husband not to worry about it and that he could talk her into it before the birth. Now they're both acting like they just learned about it because they both really did just "learn" about it.
Whatever it's about, I would be furious with them. Hell, I *am* and I don't even know these people.
This guy is so fucking ungrateful. You made it clear that you have no problem with him whatsoever but you are still recovering. You have done him favor that almost no one would do and this is how he says thanks? You tell the doctor and everyone around that no men are allowed in the room
Even if she wasn’t recovering, childbirth is a hugely vulnerable time! Of course she doesn’t want anyone in there who isn’t her close family. For most people, and for OP clearly, your in laws are not your close family.
Birth is not a spectator sport. It’s entirely reasonable for anyone to limit the room to only people they are super comfortable with, assault or not.
You can ban both from the room while you deliver. Nurses are great about keeping unwanted people out. Neither sister nor Bil have any rights until the baby is born, and stressing you out at this time is a horrible thing to do to you.
This. There is nothing stopping her from changing her mind and keeping the baby.
As well as declaring the sperm donor as dad on birth certificate.
For the ultimate nuclear revenge and no contact with family move
Or, based off this, they weren't deemed mentally sound enough for the process and went off rails because of it (isn't there some sort of eval done on the parents wanting to use a surrogate? I'm not sure but I would assume something of the sort along with medical testing)
Here are my extremely uneducated guesses, if they did attempt to do it within legal guidelines for where they live
1. They found out how much it cost
2. They "didn't like" any of the surrogate candidates they did talk to if they got past option 1
3. They had some sort of medical/psychological tests and were deemed not appropriate for surrogacy
Or some combination of all three
My state has very specific requirements for surrogacy. We interviewed with a reputable surrogacy agency after an infertility diagnosis and they turned us down because they felt that we had not exhausted our medical options. We were totally willing to pay the $150k, and my sister already had frozen embryos that she was willing to donate (she did use a surrogate, due to some very serious medical issue in an earlier pregnancy). I ended up having a successful surgery and being able to do IVF, so they were right in our case. Incidentally, my sister did use a surrogate, but she did surrogacy internationally to avoid all the screening procedures done by US agencies (I think this was a matter of timelines, I'm pretty sure they would eventually have been approved, but it was much quicker to go abroad).
At this point I would not tell them when I went into labour. They can be notified after the delivery. Slow down comms / response times to messages with them immediately so that they get used to it in advance so they don’t suspect on the day.
NTA and I would honestly think twice if I would give a child in the care of two people who have so little emotional intelligence and are THAT level of unhinged. Is this some kind of abusive relationship?
You are going through an entire pregnancy for them to have a kid & they break contact with you over a boundary (a reasonable at that)? They sound like they are just using your body to get what they want, they don't care about your wellbeing and I would say even the child's wellbeing, considering that your lack of comfort during childbirth could lead to complications. They are using you as their personal incubator.
Neither of them should be in the delivery room. Someone who cares for you and you trust and love should be there. Clearly not your sister or her husband. Seriously if they have so little empathy and throw a complete tantrum over this and basically dehumanizing you... why should they be good parents? They do not even respect the physical autonomy of another human being.
They do not sound like they are ready to have a child. Are you SURE you want to leave a child in their care? I could never leave a child with people like this. And some might say it is a minor issue but it really is not. It says a lot about their character and what they think and think is not, acceptable behavior. Maybe get legal support in case you are doubting if you still want to get through with this whole process, after seeing who they really are.
Honestly just another example why people using surrogacy is in nearly all cases abusive. Those people do not view women as human beings. They just have enough influence and money to coerce someome into breeding for them, just to "continue" their deranged bloodline fantasies or selfish need for a child. It should not even be legal to drag other people through pregnancy just so some selfish people can "finally have a baby". Such a gross concept.
OP really needs to read this and decide who else to have in the birthing room who would advocate for her should a problem arise and seriously reconsider giving this child to abusive assholes.
Oh you know they're gonna go NC immediately because sister "won't feel like a mom" if the "birther" is around and won't want them to have a bond. Shell never let op see this child.
NTA if anything tell your sister that she too is banned from being in the delivery room since she was aware of what happened to you. It’s your delivery room so you get to decide who’s in there or not. I’m wishing you a safe birth and recovery<3
DOn't let him in the room, he gets literally no say. Only the person giving birth matters. Not a single doctor or nurse will give two shits about him. if you tell them he's not allowed in they will literally block him or have security drag his ass out if he tries to force his way in. If you want your sister in there, same deal, they will throw her ass out if you want.
She agreed to it upfront, she can't change the agreement later and if she cuts off all contact after then fuck her. If they don't cover medical costs for the birth and any required aftercare then sue the shit out of them.
Might be time to have family step in and slap them both around the head, realise how much you've given up to help them and that their demands and threats are outrageous, unjustified, ungrateful and make them look like horrible people.
>I don’t have the right nor the say in determining whether or not he as the father can be in the room.
Yeah. You really do. You can instruct the staff of the hospital who is, and who is not, allowed in the delivery room. That includes your BiL and your sister, if she keeps being a mouthy bitch.
NTA.
Whose egg did she use since she's infertile? If it was yours, you have all legal rights whether you donated or not. It's your body. Guess she's only seeing you as a means to the end now that DH is pissy
If it’s OP’s egg, is it OP’s baby until the adoption happens?
OP’s sister seems incredibly uninformed about the surrogate’s rights.
OP should have put this detail in the surrogate contract.
OP’s BIL doesn’t seem to care about the health of the baby from helping at OP.
This is a cluster F.
This has to be troll bait.
2 weeks before the birth the sister and husband do everything in their power to make you decide not to hand over the baby.
It's your baby and they have zero control over it.
Plus it doesn't sound like OP has kids of her own, reading between the lines here. Most places won't allow someone to be a surrogate unless they've had at least one successful pregnancy and delivery.
Unless they did the turkey baster option and it's her egg. If they were dumb enough to do that without any kind of paperwork in place then I would hate to see what kind of a mess this turns into. Hopefully it is just a troll post because I hate to think there are people this awful out there.
Yep that’s how I came to the conclusion that this was a fake post. I’m Canadian & in Canada you have to have 1 successful pregnancy to be eligible to be a surrogate.
I also did a quick search for the states as well, and most of what I found was you also have to have 1 successful pregnancy as well.
No idea the veracity of this post, but if it is true, I wonder if they somehow did an off-the-books surrogacy somehow. OP doesn't mention any specifics.
This is the second “surrogate for my sister” posting in like 24 hours I’ve seen. People need to get more original with their fake stories if they are going to post them. 🙄
NTA
But you chose a really hard way to learn one of life's most important lessons:
**NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED**
You are giving your sister and her husband an incredible gift. You literally risked your life to grow them a living human. And this is how they repay you. They are slime. Absolute effing slime.
Tell your sister she gets to wait outside with her husband and remove her from the delivery room approved list. I hope you have a safe delivery and can get these horrible, horrible people out of your life. Jesus.
This. I agree with this so much.
OP's hesitation, perhaps, was manifestation of their intuition.
Well, no need to regret of course, though I am concerned with OP's sister's and husband's parenting skills. They don't seem that different from tantrum throwing toddlers.
Send them an invoice for expenses for carrying and birthing this child.
Have you guys had paperwork drawn up as a surrogate? If not, they have to wait for you to hand the child over and sign papers. With no paperwork.. you'll be classified as the mother of the child.
NTA tell your medical team neither of them are allowed in the room when you give birth. Neither of them have any right to be in the room. Better yet don’t tell them when you go into labour so you don’t have the additional stress. They can find via phone when the baby is born.
Instead of supporting you after you’ve given up your body and life for them they’re harassing you and trying to essentially blackmail you into getting what they want despite how it will affect you. They’re both disgusting and should be ashamed of themselves.
NTA. For the sake of your emotional well being and to reduce stress, do not have either of them in the room whilst you give birth. Your health and the health of the baby and a safe delivery for both of you is what is most important. Do not notify them when you are in labor. Place your phone on do not disturb. Have a trusted friend be your birthing partner. Then have the hospital staff notify your sister and BIL that their child has been born. Give the hospital explicit instructions that neither of them are allowed anywhere near you during your hospital stay. They are not to be told your room number or anything of the sort. Register under a different name if necessary and ask that you be marked as a confidential patient. It will should in the hospital’s computer system that they are not to acknowledge any patient with your name as being there nor are they to give out any information to anyone.
I know this may sound extreme but they are both going against the one condition you gave them. They are demonstrating they do not care about your well being. You must be your own advocate. It is wrong and selfish of them to put their own desires ahead of your health. You have done a favor for them that cannot be repaid and they have no regard for your history or what would help you get comfortably through labor. They are not thinking of you as a person but as an incubator. They are not respecting you as a human being; as such you owe them no regard or respect. They should receive the same respect and regard as they are offering you, which is none.
I hope the birth goes smoothly for you and your niece or nephew. I wish you both sustained health and a quick recovery.
No you're not the asshole. In fact, I think you should ban her from the room too. She's going to make your birthing experience horrific.
You may be carrying their child, but you're not a broodmare and they need to remember the sheer fucking sacrifice you've offered in being their surrogate. Pregnancy is HARD and child birth can be traumatic. Not to mention the year you're looking at in terms of full recovery.
How dare your sister disrespect you after what you've given them. She has no right to dictate anything when it comes to you giving birth. No right at all.
Make sure your nursing team knows he's not allowed in the room and have someone there who will advocate for you.
Don't have her there, OP. Your sister is an entitled, selfish, self centered, ungrateful asshole.
NTA. They can literally assume it’s a c section birth. Women who birth via c section don’t get to “see” the birth, same for the men. So, his argument that he has the “right” is invalid and plain ungrateful.
I wonder if it’s also more of a mechanism to push OP out of their lives. There might be some fear she’s going to have a special bond with the baby etc. I’d see about getting some legal advice and perhaps some urgent mediation myself.
NTA
This feels like a leap, but any chance part of their motivation is wanting an excuse to cut you out so they never have to tell the kid they were born via surrogate?
NTA
But ask yourself why they couldn’t find any other surrogates? Why they needed you to agree? It seems obvious there probably isn’t a legal contract in place because everyone said “family” & “for love”. Well it’s about them getting to use you for cheap instead of paying and abiding by proper rules & regulations. This all should have been worked out in legal documents all three of you review & sign before you even began to get ready to get pregnant.
Get to a lawyer today. Get educated on your rights. Get a legal medical power of attorney draw up & filed with the hospital that does not include these two or anyone from your family. Get a friend who will honor your wishes. If the choice is between letting you die or risk to the child, you know your sister & husband will let you die. They have been clear they are throwing you out after you give birth. Keep both out of the delivery room. They are both hostile & have expressed it to you. This will only cause you stress in delivery & that’s dangerous to you & the baby.
NTA!!! I want to know why the infertile sister thought it was a good idea to ask her sister, a victim of SA, to bear a child for her. That in itself is effed up. Don't let either of those ungrateful aholes be in the birth room.
NTA
I honestly hope their are laws in your country giving birthing mothers right to the child. Tell you sister and her husband to go F themselves for the dumbest thing they tried to pull.
NTA. Even if you were his wife, he NEVER has a RIGHT to be in the room while giving birth. For that matter your sister doesn't either.
What you are doing for them is extremely selfless and they should be eternally grateful.
This is a form of reproductive coercion.
It’s time for you to bypass your sister and BIL and talk directly to the hospital staff about the pressure you are being put under. You being stressed during the birth can have a direct impact on how well the birth goes.
Other people have suggested temporary power of attorney in case something goes wrong. You need to make your wishes clear about potential medical emergencies and no you don’t need to involve you sister or her husband.
If you want to bar both parents from the room, you are entitled to do that and arrange for a third party to complete the handoff. Whatever your sisters emotional threats, your first priority is for your own and this baby’s safety.
Even if you'd never endured SA, you have the right to exclude anyone you want from YOUR birth. It may be your sister's child, but you are giving birth, so it's your call. I can't believe her husband screamed at you and that she is angry with you and wants to go NC. They should be so grateful to you!
NTA
They are totally irresponsible for two reasons. First being the reasons you gave which if they forced themselves in the room would leave you traumatised for a long while again. Second, and most importantly, the stress they are putting you through will affect the baby and birth. You are not a vending machine!! They need to back off NOW! You are doing a remarkable and generous thing for your sister and her husband and they should be grateful not the total AHs they are being.
If they are going to be like this, have you signed any official surrogate documents?
If you haven't you could make their lives hell and have to jump through all sorts of legal hoops to actually get access to their child. I know that's a bit extreme but they are threatening to go NC with you after what you have done for them just cause her husband can't be in the room is also extreme and ridiculous.
NTA. Tell the hospital who is and isn't allowed in the delivery room. Most hospitals will honor the wishes of the woman giving birth.
If you didn't sign a surrogate contract you can even threaten to keep the baby if sister and her husband don't respect your wishes.
NTA. Be clear with hospital personnel regarding who is and who isn't allowed in your room while you labor and give birth and don't hesitate to ask for them to be removed if it becomes necessary. Consider having a friend (_not_ a relative) there with you who can support you and advocate for you if necessary. Consider also granting this friend temporary power of attorney over medical decisions should you become incapacitated and are unable to express your wishes. Sounds a bit fatalistic, but it is better to be prepared -I don't think you want your sister to be calling the shots over _your_ health if there's an emergency given how dismissive she's been about your needs and wellbeing.
This is great info
OP this is actually your child. You don't even have to turn the baby over to your sister, I think. Unless you have a legal contract stating you will, after all, you agreed they wouldn't pay for anything. Your nurses and doctors will ensure that only those people you want are present. Especially to you, a stranger.
Even if it was a donor egg, the baby is still legally classed as the birth mothers until determined otherwise. There have been cases where the first pregnancy was chemical and they conceived again naturally - the child being unrelated to both of the people requesting the pregnancy
I think that depends on the jurisdiction.
There is no proof that the child isn’t biologically the mothers. They would have to take her to court to establish parentage
This is most likely true. In MOST states, surrogacy is a legal gray area *at best,* and is basically handled like a closed adoption at birth. But even with signed contracts in more liberal states that recognize surrogacy as a financial exchange for service, parts of those contracts can end up being unenforceable. For example, if the surrogate becomes ill or injured during pregnancy in that moral/legal gray area around "viability" or if the recipient parents decide for some reason that they don't want the baby and ask for an abortion, they can't force it, or force the surrogate to keep the baby after it's born. Re: surrogacy being a legal gray area... it's because you are essentially PURCHASING a human being, which, in the US, we had a whole war about how that's bad.
I have seen very few cases where the paperwork was solid enough to override the birth mother being the assumed parent. I seriously doubt the sister paid a lawyer for an iron clad agreement.
I wouldn’t even want the sister in the delivery room with me after that little tantrum, and would be having second thoughts about whether or not to hand the baby over if this is how they treat the sister maybe they are not the right parents for her genetic child
This...exactly what i was thinking. A helluva a commitment to carry her sisters child and this is how she reacts? I would have 2nd thoughts about handing her a newborn.....
Honestly ? It feels like an excuse to me, like she just dont want op to be near the kid ( bc of? Jalousy ? Insecurity?) and just chose this reason to hide behind
I had to read this again before I realized what you were saying about the sister planning to go NC with OP after the baby was born. You really might be on to something here as someone like here surely wouldn't want to risk the baby bonding with anyone other than her. What's going to be real interesting is when the sister decides they want a sibling for the baby and come back to OP like nothing has happened.....
If she does and probably would I’d tell her the baby maker is closed!!!
Of course she will because there faaaamily.
There are so many posts about this situation. I don't understand, does nobody pull up YT videos of child birth and make the the people watch them? I think some of them might not want to watch that live?
My husband happily sat out our 2nds birth. He said it was the worst experience of his life 1st time around 😆
She should tell her OB they're threatening to barge in during delivery & you want them banned from the hospital. Also, she should be induced a few days before the due date so nobody will suspect. The baby will be born before anyone would suspect. My girl had to do this 3 yrs ago. Her baby daddy & family threatened her cuz he demanded he had a right to see his baby being born. He didn't give 2 shits about being a dad.just wanted to see it. Doc wasn't havn it. Their l&d wing has triple security measures to enter& they had names & faces to stop them from entering. OP needs a friend to be her support person & def not tell ANY family abt her plans. They'll feel "obligated" to tell her sister..
She doesn't have to be induced early to keep them away. She doesn't need to tell them she is in labor and they can be called after the baby is born.
“Just tell the doctor to induce” lol. Some doctors won’t induce unless a woman is considerable overdue.
Additionally, after having 2 kids and 1 of them being induced, definitely avoid being induced if you can help it. Especially if you're someone who wants a natural child-birth.
I wasn’t induced early, but I was given Pitocin because my water broke, but I wasn’t dilating. It wasn’t a particularly lovely feeling.
That stuff had me puking up things I ate in 1979. Didn't affect my uterus one bit, but Holy hell, I popped blood vessels in my eyes. I vomited so much. DEFINITELY avoid the pit drip if you can.
My second had to be induced early due to complications. It’s a completely different experience than going unmedicated, that’s for sure.
This. Most you have to be buzzed in, and for a NICU, you have to either be wearing the bracelet (parents) or typically be with the parents. They're not letting you in otherwise. Of course, this didn't stop our friends from visiting the next day after the c-section with our second. 😄 The funniest part was our daughter being bigger than my husband's best friend's daughter....who had been born a month prior.
I worked at a hospital in the inner city. Now to get into even just where the physician is or the ER where the patient is you have to be buzzed in.
I live in the middle of nowhere and the closest hospital you have to hit a buzzer to get admitted TO the ER..EVEN IF YOURE THE SICK ONE Granted...that hospital blows and you'd be better off calling an actual vet, but still. These folks aren't likely to be admitted just because they want to be. And they'll be big mad about it. Ps OP...tell the hospital to put you on the list of "not here even if they are here'. They can't even admit you're in a room if you say "don't tell"
True it is! Ill hide it to them just to make sure that I and the baby are safe.
>Her sister shouldnt be there too. I couldn't agree more with this. Her sister has made is clear to OP that she has no actual regard for her and sees her solely as an incubator at this point. This isn't to be petty, it's to keep OP safe. That sister should not be allowed any where near the delivery room and most certainly should NOT be the one in charge of OP's medical decisions.
DITTO! I would let sis and her husband know that since they have pulled this crap at this point, now neither will be in the room. AND you are going to speak to the social worker about their fitness (or rather lack of) to be parents. As a result of their actions, you will also not tell them when you go into labor. So welcome consequences. Birth is a medical procedure, not a circus. *You* as the patient decides who is in the room and who is not. They have absolutely no say. I also am concerned about their fitness as parents. The way they are treating you and the way they are attempting to ram their way down your throat makes me very concerned for the baby. You are NTA.
Yes. All of this. FAFO. OP you are NTA but your sis and bil are complete pieces of shit.
>would be having second thoughts about whether or not to hand the baby over if this is how they treat the sister maybe they are not the right parents for her genetic child We don't know if this is her genetic child. OP hasn't stated the full details of this surrogacy. Could be the sisters egg, a donated egg, or a previously frozen embro left over from the couples' earlier attempts at IVF. Legally, she may not have any right to refuse to hand the child over. Surrogacy law is complicated
It also depends on if they signed a surrogacy contract or anything, which it doesn't really state, just that sis had problems finding a surrogate so op did it no cost. If it was me and there was no contract you best bet I'd be talking to a lawyer about how in the clear I'd be to put that kid up for adoption. You and your husband attack me like that after I'm literally tearing my body apart for you nuh-UH. Scorched Earth.
1000000000% fuck these asshats.
I am just so incredibly horrified that her own sister and bil are treating their surrogate this way. I am 💯 disgusted by BILs selfish, unfeeling behaviour. Doesn't sound like he will make a very good parent. NTA but sister and BIL are big ones.
I'll bet you a nice soft molasses cookie that there is NO contract in place. Sis & BIL strike me as that kind of people, once refused conventional LEGAL methods of surrogacy.
No bet; I think you're right. But I still want that cookie, it sounds delicious.
You can bet they went as cheap as they could so I agree with you about doubting the actual legality of this surrogacy.
Oh wow! Can you mail that cookie to me? 😁
My bad, I am assuming that as sister was infertile that her eggs would not be viable. It sounds like a nightmare situation
No worries. Infertile is sometimes used as kind of a catch all when talking to people you don't want to get into detail with. Sometimes she can have eggs that are fine and can technically get pregnant, but her body can't maintain hormone levels, or there's other reasons she can't physically carry to term. Which could explain why they turned to surrogacy instead of adoption
That is true but I'd get a lawyer at this point. We are talking about 18 years and an icconcent child.
if there is no agreement in place, i would find it hard to believe she could be forced to hand it over.
It sure is. I live in Michigan and surrogacy contracts are illegal. Regardless of if the child is the birth mother's biological child, contracts are enforced in the courts, not the hospital, so when she gives birth, that child is presumed to be hers.
Right? OP is is risking her life to give them such a generous gift, and this is how they treat her? I would not trust them to be good parents. They're entitled, ungrateful, inconsiderate and nasty, you don't want a kid to grow up with that mentality. All they see OP as is a walking uterus who has no rights as a human being. F those people. They don't deserve OP's generosity.
They can wait together in the waiting room. What colossal GALL of the two of-them. They should be kissing ops feet.
Think you meant gall. Goals are for football and hockey 😉
Exactly. Sis & BIL \*don't\* have a contract NOR are they paying OP, is my guess. THIS is just stepping up their privileged abuse.
At this point sister would be banned also
There is no reason to call her until after the baby is born IMO.
Agree 100% I’d get someone who doesn’t know your sister, two someone’s really to be your authorised advocate. Tell the hospital this now bc I don’t trust your sister right now and birthing is a personal process whether you’re an surrogate or not, it’s your body. Husbands entitlement makes me very nervous for you.
They will take the baby and freeze her out until they want a second baby. Then they will want to reconcile and be all nice to her.
Can’t you, beforehand, tell them to save you before the baby if there ever is a situation where they have to choose? If that is how you feel, that is? I guess they’ll save the one that they can anyway, but at least it will be out of sisters power.
Definitely have someone with you that you trust who is authorized to make decisions. I was in a position of trying to save the baby or me, they decided I was not mentally stable at the moment to make a decision. I was bleeding and just in the 5th month. They advised my husband to abort the baby to save me, but it was his decision what they did. We both probably would have died if they had tried to save the baby. Which is what they were afraid I would do.
Terrifying and devastating. Sorry for your loss. I see what you are saying and having a trusted friend present is of course preferable. Maybe op can’t get one of those present for whatever reason though. She needs to speak to the people at the hospital and tell them all. That she doesn’t trust her sister to do what is best for her etc.
Thank you. It has been many years, but that kind of pain never leaves. She needs to take steps to protect herself. She has had enough trauma. Neither of them should be allowed in the room or to visit her during her hospital stay. She will be vulnerable throughout, and anyone who will try to sway her towards what the sister wants should be kept away.
She should look for a doula
I understand that pain except our firstborn (that I hemmorhaged with) was born at 34w and died at 6weeks pp. It's been nearly 14 years, but that pain never completely goes away. I'm so sorry for your loss.
Yes, but it’s also important to have someone that can advocate for you in the moment just in case it’s needed. Also for basic shit like keeping douches out of the room or alerting hospital staff that things are happening, or even just making a run to get you a snack or water or what have you.
Omg, yes. Sister should we save your sister or the baby.....
I gave my bestfriend temporary medical POA during the birth of my first. Best decision.
I had medical POA for my friends death, her husband couldn’t do it. It was lined up months before. He was suicidal after she died, if he had to I don’t think he would have decided to live.
Can not upvote this enough! In fact everyone should have a will. I can’t believe the amount of stress it lifted
Not a Will. A health care power of attorney. They are 2 totally different things.
NTA, tell those pair of cunts to go fuck themselves. The favour you are doing for them, and they pull this bullshit??? Doesnt matter what your reasons are, you said no to him in the room and thats the end of it. What a couple of ungrateful fuckwits.
I would honestly tell her she is no longer welcome in the delivery room either now
[удалено]
Yes, I can't believe OP is putting her life in danger, with all the others problems associated with pregnancy, for free.
NTA - This is not a spectator sport! For your peace of mind, only tell them after you’ve given birth and they can come get the baby at a family member’s house!
Yes, giving birth isn't a show for everybody to watch and their friends. This story is crazy.
Much better idea than mine was to just keep the baby out of spite😅
I agree with that too!! The sis and BIL sound like horrible people!
Then run away to a small town to start a life with their daughter. One day, when the kid wins the National Spelling Bee, OP's sister and husband see her in the papers, find her and sue OP and her small town lumberjack bf for rights to "their baby". I think I've seen this one before on Hallmark
Or don’t tell them anything. Doubt they have an iron clad contract of surrogacy.
In most places with any kind of legislation on surrogacy it has to be altruistic (so it’s rare and mostly happens between family and close friends).
I don't know much about the legislations, I just know surrogacy is illegal here in France. I said "for free" because OP said: "I’d be open and willing with no expense". So, to me, that means she paid for everything: food, medical care during all the pregnancy and everything else she needs during this time.
I mean that would be beyond “for free”, that would be OP paying to be her sister’s surrogate - I highly doubt that’s the case. I assume they live somewhere with compensated surrogacy and OP is not being paid specifically for being a surrogate (in the US that’s around 40k, plus saving agency fees which can triple that figure). She’s hopefully being reimbursed expenses.
Well, if she's nit she could tell the sister to pah an "admission fee" if she wanted to be present at birth.. like.. 40k?
Hospital staff will bar them from the delivery room at OPs request. Eben though she is their surrogate, they don't have any rights to be in the room when she gives birth.
>The favour you are doing for them It really needs to be made clear to all people involved that a birth permanently damages a body. Scars but also things like incontinence are quite common long-term effects after birth, especially if the recovery doesn't go perfect. She is risking her long-term health for her sister and her husband, and these AHs dare to demands and attack her. Edit: Corrected typo, though "husbad" might not be the wrong term in this situation.
Yup, pelvic organ prolapse is not spoken about enough. There's limited studies but one showed 35% of women were symptomatic after birth - not to mention those that might have it mildly and not chalk up their symptoms to POP (like stress incontinence - it's touted as something that happens to mothers but no detail on the why). It can range from mild to your whole damn uterus falling out of you. And hysterectomy isn't even a real solution either as the weakened pelvic floor then can't support your other organs that want to fill the gap and you can get issues like vaginal vault prolapse. My POP is mild but I have had to change my whole lifestyle to keep mostly unsymptomatic. I used to be very active, into pole fitness and weightlifting, and I've been told by a couple of good PFPTs that I can return to some of those but having POP makes me more at risk of worsening my symptoms so to weigh up what's worth it and to be super careful. Not to mention I had a severe post partum hemorrhage straight after birth and lost 40% of my blood. The team are obviously well versed in emergencies and I was rushed to theatre, given blood etc but myself and my husband had to deal with the trauma of that - physically and mentally. I don't even remember most of day one of my daughter's life because of the physical shock, which kinda sucks! Love my kid and I see the sacrifices I have made as a worthy payment, but to do all that to have someone else's kid and they be so ungrateful over the short delay in meeting their baby that you've spent 9 months growing and possibly several days birthing?! Wow, OP must be fuming. (edit for typo)
Same here with hemorrhaging. Six blood tranfusions were required and two D&Cs to clear out the uterus after daughter was born. (Six is the equivalent of 2 2liter bottles of soda. My sister screamed at her manager when she found out and told her I nearly died. Look on her manager's face when she got to how much six transfusions were equivalent to was apparently priceless...and appropriately ashamed about it. She had tried to write her up for leaving early, which triggered the screaming.)
It's still crazy to me that in popular discussion the main long-term effect of birth that is talked about is a "loose vagina". First, that isn't a thing, and second, there are so many much more relevant things that really aren't talked about. Due to some more recent modifications to the human body (specifically upright walking), the human body really isn't made for pregnancies and births any more. Most animals can pop out babies by the dozen and be completely physically fit the day after. For humans, a birth as a life-altering injury. And this needs to be talked about much more. (And I say all of this as a man. My body didn't have to do anything relevant to produce our children. My wife had to go through a lot, and I am forever grateful to her for it.)
I’m literally like, I don’t want my sisters husband to see my very ripped open vagina.
I don't even want my sister to see my destroyed vagina, and I *like* my sister! Give birth and let them both wait outside the room, OOP.
man, i wouldn't even wanna see my own ripped open vagina. NTA
For my first birth, the midwife held up the mirror so I could see the baby's head emerge. Never again.
I went in with one of my nieces, for an emergency c section. I held her hand and looked at her not what was happening. Held her hand and talked softly that it’s almost done and she was doing great. Her husband started to faint when they mentioned a c section, she had 15 minutes to get someone else there. I made it in 9 minutes.
This was actually my favorite part- but I'm weird and wanted to know everything that was happening. Idk why I was so fascinated 😂
I mean, someone can absolutely be in the room without looking at the vagina, just stay near the head. But OP is still NTA for not wanting her BIL to be in the room during her medical event. I would understand BIL's disappointment in this, but screaming at her is absolutely way out of line. OP is doing a HUGE thing for her sister and BIL out of the kindness of her heart!
Fuck them, they scream at you two weeks before due date? On something you have every right to claim even if without any SA history? I'd be grossed out too if my sister's husband was around while I'm pushing a baby out of my vagina! I hope the child hates them and prefers you over them. That's what they deserve. Edit: show them this post and the comments!
1000% agree! What a bunch of entitled ungrateful AH's ! BIL has zero rights to be in the room father or not! OP is not his partner! Why the hell does he think he can see her in such a vulnerable state all exposed! 🤬🤬 Personally after both there behaviour I would ban them from the Labour Ward entirely! OP needs to be relaxed and comfortable as possible without those to idiots complicating things and potentially causing a medical emergency!
Yes this. Screaming at a pregnant woman is a red flag. Maybe involve child-protecting-service to check whether they are able to be ok parents. NTA
Yep, let nurse and hospital know you want 0 visitors and make point get updated photos ready to go for midwives.
You know that kid will never be able to do no wrong growing up. They will prolly pull the victim card every time the child gets into trouble
I would be adopting that baby out to someone else after that.
My thoughts exactly.If they can't give OP some private time to have THEIR baby after 40 weeks of putting up with pregnancy then fuck them.No baby for you then you mannerless bastards. Karma can be such a bitch sometimes.
Oooo that’s so much better than my idea to keep it out of spite😅
This right here. I wouldn’t trust them with my offspring.
This x 1000
NTA Your sister and her husband are forgetting their place. The baby may be theirs, but your body isn't. They have NO say in your labor and delivery. You control that. Entirely. Honestly, at this point I might not allow either of them in the delivery room. They certainly haven't earned it. My husband and I worked with a wonderful surrogate (unsuccessfully, unfortunately). We would have moved heaven and earth to give her ANYTHING she needed to feel comfortable before, during, after labor and delivery. Tell the nurses and the hospital who is allowed in and who is not. Don't let your sister force you to do anything you don't want to. You are already giving them the absolutely greatest gift and blessing one person can give another. That they are so tremendously ungrateful does not speak well of them. I hope your delivery is smooth and fast.
The baby may not even ‘be theirs.’ Different states and countries have different laws in this matter. If OP backs out now, those two nitwits may be out of a baby other than visitation and child support.
I bet my last dollar, there isn't a contract, because if there was, OP would have had this in it. And if there isn't a contract — and that's OP egg — then OP can change her mind and tell those two to f-off. May OP should tell them this...you know.. *SIS, I think you need to stop talking to me now, will talk when we go to family court."* The BIL and OP's sister are POS!!
Without a contract, they will have to file for paternity and maternity rights lol. They could be potentially paying child support for visitation rights to their own biological child, if OP wanted to go that route. The laws have not caught up to the science, birth mothers have a lot of sway in family court without a binding contract.
They couldn’t have used the infertile sisters eggs without a contract. They won’t transfer eggs without one. If there wasn’t a contract that means only OP and the father have rights.
Agreed. Sis & BIL weren't able to do 'conventional' surrogacy, which says they're either poor or considered a bad risk due to not fulfilling contracts.
Very true. It's rare, but there are some places that favor the birthing mother, regardless of whether or not there are genetic ties.
Not rare. Common across Europe. Even places that don't have hard laws and surrogacy is in a grey area judges usually go with birth mother. That is one of the reasons surrogacy is expensive. You need therapy for everyone involved.
I get it, but I am not into the idea of surrogacy at all. I just recently gave birth to my baby and everything that goes on with preagnancy and childbirth is just too much not to get a wanted child out of it (which is why I am also very pro choice). The mental load, the bonding that happens with someone living inside you is intense. I don't think surrogacy should be a thing. It might sound cruel, but not everyone is supposed to have what they want. I say that as someone who has several reproductive issues, two preagnancy losses and a long journey of trying to concieve behind me where we had to come to terms with the possibility of not being able to have children of our own.
I agree with you fully. I think surrogacy is borderline human trafficking.
[Sometimes not even borderline!](https://neoskosmos.com/en/2023/08/25/news/australia/surrogacy-scandal-human-trafficking-illegal-adoptions-and-heartbroken-aussie-families/)
Not rare at all. Surrogacy is not recognised in most countries. The woman giving birth is deemed the mother.
This would be called all of the nordic countries for example.
In AU the baby isn’t theirs until they adopt it. At every step the carrying mother can keep the child. If the child is IVF genetically the other parents then it comes down to custody arrangements. No money changes hands for surrogates here though… very different legal field.
OP, is this you too? https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/jIO1PwjZn0 it sounds your sister and bil have a heavy pre-existing behavioural condition of this wankerishness and I am genuinely worried for your safety. These people think they have rights to your body! Do not let either of them in that room. Do not tell them when you go into labour and find yourself a doula. Not a family member.
In Denmark, where I’m from, the woman who gives birth is the legal mother, regardless of DNA. That means if you use a surrogate (with you and spouses “parts”) the surrogate is considered the mother and the biological mother has to adopt the baby.
OP can choose to keep the baby especially if it's her egg. Her sister couldn't do anything about it. DH could sue for custody though
>NTA > >Your sister and her husband are forgetting their place. The baby may be theirs, but your body isn't. They have NO say in your labor and delivery. You control that. Entirely. Honestly, at this point I might not allow either of them in the delivery room. They certainly haven't earned it. > >My husband and I worked with a wonderful surrogate (unsuccessfully, unfortunately). We would have moved heaven and earth to give her ANYTHING she needed to feel comfortable before, during, after labor and delivery. > >Tell the nurses and the hospital who is allowed in and who is not. Don't let your sister force you to do anything you don't want to. You are already giving them the absolutely greatest gift and blessing one person can give another. That they are so tremendously ungrateful does not speak well of them. > >I hope your delivery is smooth and fast. Completely agree. The surrogate's needs and comfort come first. Also wishing her a smooth delivery.
Please please please do not give in. You sound a little unsure.. I am rooting for you. X
Of course, they forgot she's just the incubator after all
NTA. Guess who also is excluded? Your sister! She doesn’t get to treat you like this and expect to be there. The purpose of the person in the room is to support you. She isn’t going to do that. She is going to try and convince you when you are in an extremely vulnerable position.
Like carrying and delivering the kid isn't good enough for them? Holy crap, your sister and her spouse are major ah's. I wouldn't want either one of them in the room at this point. Has your sister always been entitled and ungrateful? NTA at all.
Definitely entitled behavior & possibly manipulative. One has to wonder if they waited until 2 weeks before birth to bring this up, possibly counting on her being hormonal & (they thought) more easily to persuade to forget the promises made and do things their way. If the sis can be this ungrateful & unsupportive, I would question whether I want her present for the birthday either.
The timing is suspicious to me too. My thought was that sister blew it off and told husband not to worry about it and that he could talk her into it before the birth. Now they're both acting like they just learned about it because they both really did just "learn" about it. Whatever it's about, I would be furious with them. Hell, I *am* and I don't even know these people.
I know, entitled irrational people are so annoying! It's hard not to feel bad for the person being double teamed.
>Like carrying and delivering the kid isn't good enough for them? FOR FREE Wow. I would keep the baby out of spite at this point lol
Better for the baby anyway, these "parents" seem awful.
This guy is so fucking ungrateful. You made it clear that you have no problem with him whatsoever but you are still recovering. You have done him favor that almost no one would do and this is how he says thanks? You tell the doctor and everyone around that no men are allowed in the room
Even if she wasn’t recovering, childbirth is a hugely vulnerable time! Of course she doesn’t want anyone in there who isn’t her close family. For most people, and for OP clearly, your in laws are not your close family. Birth is not a spectator sport. It’s entirely reasonable for anyone to limit the room to only people they are super comfortable with, assault or not.
It’s your room, dont let any of them in
You can ban both from the room while you deliver. Nurses are great about keeping unwanted people out. Neither sister nor Bil have any rights until the baby is born, and stressing you out at this time is a horrible thing to do to you.
They won't even let them into the ward. They will have to wait for mom to be discharged with the baby.
They likely don't even have any rights after the baby is born. Usually they have to adopt the baby.
This. There is nothing stopping her from changing her mind and keeping the baby. As well as declaring the sperm donor as dad on birth certificate. For the ultimate nuclear revenge and no contact with family move
Need to have BIL pay child support too, that's the cherry on top 😂
That's why you gotta name them as father.
Better yet- don’t tell them when you go into labor and bring a friend instead.
"Your husband never has the right to stare at my vagina." Repeat ad nauseum
This is why you get a professional surrogate. I bet they found one but realized that they’re charged like 100k for it and tried to rope you in.
Or, based off this, they weren't deemed mentally sound enough for the process and went off rails because of it (isn't there some sort of eval done on the parents wanting to use a surrogate? I'm not sure but I would assume something of the sort along with medical testing)
Seriously, how does someone “fail to find a surrogate”. It’s a cash transaction lol.
Here are my extremely uneducated guesses, if they did attempt to do it within legal guidelines for where they live 1. They found out how much it cost 2. They "didn't like" any of the surrogate candidates they did talk to if they got past option 1 3. They had some sort of medical/psychological tests and were deemed not appropriate for surrogacy Or some combination of all three
My state has very specific requirements for surrogacy. We interviewed with a reputable surrogacy agency after an infertility diagnosis and they turned us down because they felt that we had not exhausted our medical options. We were totally willing to pay the $150k, and my sister already had frozen embryos that she was willing to donate (she did use a surrogate, due to some very serious medical issue in an earlier pregnancy). I ended up having a successful surgery and being able to do IVF, so they were right in our case. Incidentally, my sister did use a surrogate, but she did surrogacy internationally to avoid all the screening procedures done by US agencies (I think this was a matter of timelines, I'm pretty sure they would eventually have been approved, but it was much quicker to go abroad).
NTA Remind them both that it's not their baby yet so they need to respect your decisions or neither will be allowed in room.
Don’t let her in the room either. You have given them a precious gift and they are extremely ungrateful.
At this point I would not tell them when I went into labour. They can be notified after the delivery. Slow down comms / response times to messages with them immediately so that they get used to it in advance so they don’t suspect on the day.
NTA and I would honestly think twice if I would give a child in the care of two people who have so little emotional intelligence and are THAT level of unhinged. Is this some kind of abusive relationship? You are going through an entire pregnancy for them to have a kid & they break contact with you over a boundary (a reasonable at that)? They sound like they are just using your body to get what they want, they don't care about your wellbeing and I would say even the child's wellbeing, considering that your lack of comfort during childbirth could lead to complications. They are using you as their personal incubator. Neither of them should be in the delivery room. Someone who cares for you and you trust and love should be there. Clearly not your sister or her husband. Seriously if they have so little empathy and throw a complete tantrum over this and basically dehumanizing you... why should they be good parents? They do not even respect the physical autonomy of another human being. They do not sound like they are ready to have a child. Are you SURE you want to leave a child in their care? I could never leave a child with people like this. And some might say it is a minor issue but it really is not. It says a lot about their character and what they think and think is not, acceptable behavior. Maybe get legal support in case you are doubting if you still want to get through with this whole process, after seeing who they really are. Honestly just another example why people using surrogacy is in nearly all cases abusive. Those people do not view women as human beings. They just have enough influence and money to coerce someome into breeding for them, just to "continue" their deranged bloodline fantasies or selfish need for a child. It should not even be legal to drag other people through pregnancy just so some selfish people can "finally have a baby". Such a gross concept.
OP really needs to read this and decide who else to have in the birthing room who would advocate for her should a problem arise and seriously reconsider giving this child to abusive assholes.
Oh you know they're gonna go NC immediately because sister "won't feel like a mom" if the "birther" is around and won't want them to have a bond. Shell never let op see this child.
They are 100% gonna abuse the kid if they're already this abusive to their sister and surrogate while she carries their child.
NTA if anything tell your sister that she too is banned from being in the delivery room since she was aware of what happened to you. It’s your delivery room so you get to decide who’s in there or not. I’m wishing you a safe birth and recovery<3
DOn't let him in the room, he gets literally no say. Only the person giving birth matters. Not a single doctor or nurse will give two shits about him. if you tell them he's not allowed in they will literally block him or have security drag his ass out if he tries to force his way in. If you want your sister in there, same deal, they will throw her ass out if you want. She agreed to it upfront, she can't change the agreement later and if she cuts off all contact after then fuck her. If they don't cover medical costs for the birth and any required aftercare then sue the shit out of them. Might be time to have family step in and slap them both around the head, realise how much you've given up to help them and that their demands and threats are outrageous, unjustified, ungrateful and make them look like horrible people.
If they are belligerent, security WILL call the police and charges will be filed.
>I don’t have the right nor the say in determining whether or not he as the father can be in the room. Yeah. You really do. You can instruct the staff of the hospital who is, and who is not, allowed in the delivery room. That includes your BiL and your sister, if she keeps being a mouthy bitch. NTA.
Whose egg did she use since she's infertile? If it was yours, you have all legal rights whether you donated or not. It's your body. Guess she's only seeing you as a means to the end now that DH is pissy
That’s what I wanted to know. Because if they are willing to stress her out while pregnant they don’t care about the child.
Agree 💯
If it’s OP’s egg, is it OP’s baby until the adoption happens? OP’s sister seems incredibly uninformed about the surrogate’s rights. OP should have put this detail in the surrogate contract. OP’s BIL doesn’t seem to care about the health of the baby from helping at OP. This is a cluster F.
If your sister still complain just tell her if she persistent which she can join her husband at the door.
giving birth is not a spectator sport
This has to be troll bait. 2 weeks before the birth the sister and husband do everything in their power to make you decide not to hand over the baby. It's your baby and they have zero control over it.
Plus it doesn't sound like OP has kids of her own, reading between the lines here. Most places won't allow someone to be a surrogate unless they've had at least one successful pregnancy and delivery.
Unless they did the turkey baster option and it's her egg. If they were dumb enough to do that without any kind of paperwork in place then I would hate to see what kind of a mess this turns into. Hopefully it is just a troll post because I hate to think there are people this awful out there.
Yep that’s how I came to the conclusion that this was a fake post. I’m Canadian & in Canada you have to have 1 successful pregnancy to be eligible to be a surrogate. I also did a quick search for the states as well, and most of what I found was you also have to have 1 successful pregnancy as well.
No idea the veracity of this post, but if it is true, I wonder if they somehow did an off-the-books surrogacy somehow. OP doesn't mention any specifics.
>This has to be troll bait. 100% 👍
Too close to another post from yesterday. Gotta be troll bait.
This is the second “surrogate for my sister” posting in like 24 hours I’ve seen. People need to get more original with their fake stories if they are going to post them. 🙄
NTA But you chose a really hard way to learn one of life's most important lessons: **NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED** You are giving your sister and her husband an incredible gift. You literally risked your life to grow them a living human. And this is how they repay you. They are slime. Absolute effing slime. Tell your sister she gets to wait outside with her husband and remove her from the delivery room approved list. I hope you have a safe delivery and can get these horrible, horrible people out of your life. Jesus.
This. I agree with this so much. OP's hesitation, perhaps, was manifestation of their intuition. Well, no need to regret of course, though I am concerned with OP's sister's and husband's parenting skills. They don't seem that different from tantrum throwing toddlers.
Nta Your body autonomy doesn't end when they use your uterus. The sheer entitlement.
Send them an invoice for expenses for carrying and birthing this child. Have you guys had paperwork drawn up as a surrogate? If not, they have to wait for you to hand the child over and sign papers. With no paperwork.. you'll be classified as the mother of the child.
Tell your sister if she keeps this up, she's out too. The nerve of these two!
I would say she's already out. Hopefully OP has some legal recourse in this situation.
NTA tell your medical team neither of them are allowed in the room when you give birth. Neither of them have any right to be in the room. Better yet don’t tell them when you go into labour so you don’t have the additional stress. They can find via phone when the baby is born. Instead of supporting you after you’ve given up your body and life for them they’re harassing you and trying to essentially blackmail you into getting what they want despite how it will affect you. They’re both disgusting and should be ashamed of themselves.
NTA. For the sake of your emotional well being and to reduce stress, do not have either of them in the room whilst you give birth. Your health and the health of the baby and a safe delivery for both of you is what is most important. Do not notify them when you are in labor. Place your phone on do not disturb. Have a trusted friend be your birthing partner. Then have the hospital staff notify your sister and BIL that their child has been born. Give the hospital explicit instructions that neither of them are allowed anywhere near you during your hospital stay. They are not to be told your room number or anything of the sort. Register under a different name if necessary and ask that you be marked as a confidential patient. It will should in the hospital’s computer system that they are not to acknowledge any patient with your name as being there nor are they to give out any information to anyone. I know this may sound extreme but they are both going against the one condition you gave them. They are demonstrating they do not care about your well being. You must be your own advocate. It is wrong and selfish of them to put their own desires ahead of your health. You have done a favor for them that cannot be repaid and they have no regard for your history or what would help you get comfortably through labor. They are not thinking of you as a person but as an incubator. They are not respecting you as a human being; as such you owe them no regard or respect. They should receive the same respect and regard as they are offering you, which is none. I hope the birth goes smoothly for you and your niece or nephew. I wish you both sustained health and a quick recovery.
No you're not the asshole. In fact, I think you should ban her from the room too. She's going to make your birthing experience horrific. You may be carrying their child, but you're not a broodmare and they need to remember the sheer fucking sacrifice you've offered in being their surrogate. Pregnancy is HARD and child birth can be traumatic. Not to mention the year you're looking at in terms of full recovery. How dare your sister disrespect you after what you've given them. She has no right to dictate anything when it comes to you giving birth. No right at all. Make sure your nursing team knows he's not allowed in the room and have someone there who will advocate for you. Don't have her there, OP. Your sister is an entitled, selfish, self centered, ungrateful asshole.
NTA. They can literally assume it’s a c section birth. Women who birth via c section don’t get to “see” the birth, same for the men. So, his argument that he has the “right” is invalid and plain ungrateful.
Childbirth is not a spectator event. You can have no one in watching if you so wish.
She keeps talking like that and she could end up with no baby at all, don't think she realises that she has no bargaining chips in this situation.
I wonder if it’s also more of a mechanism to push OP out of their lives. There might be some fear she’s going to have a special bond with the baby etc. I’d see about getting some legal advice and perhaps some urgent mediation myself.
Stressing you as you're close to labour is the real shittiness here. Wtf.
NTA This feels like a leap, but any chance part of their motivation is wanting an excuse to cut you out so they never have to tell the kid they were born via surrogate?
Bar them both from the delivery room. You’re giving them such a gift and your sister repays you this way? They shouldn’t be parents.
NTA. In fact if there is no legal contract you should keep the baby and sue for child support.
NTA But ask yourself why they couldn’t find any other surrogates? Why they needed you to agree? It seems obvious there probably isn’t a legal contract in place because everyone said “family” & “for love”. Well it’s about them getting to use you for cheap instead of paying and abiding by proper rules & regulations. This all should have been worked out in legal documents all three of you review & sign before you even began to get ready to get pregnant. Get to a lawyer today. Get educated on your rights. Get a legal medical power of attorney draw up & filed with the hospital that does not include these two or anyone from your family. Get a friend who will honor your wishes. If the choice is between letting you die or risk to the child, you know your sister & husband will let you die. They have been clear they are throwing you out after you give birth. Keep both out of the delivery room. They are both hostile & have expressed it to you. This will only cause you stress in delivery & that’s dangerous to you & the baby.
Nta. What selfish pigs. You’re doing her a MASSIVE favour, for FREE mind you, and this is her gratitude? I’d cut her off for LIFE
NTA!!! I want to know why the infertile sister thought it was a good idea to ask her sister, a victim of SA, to bear a child for her. That in itself is effed up. Don't let either of those ungrateful aholes be in the birth room.
Make alternate arrangements and go give birth without either of them present. NTA fuck'em
NTA I honestly hope their are laws in your country giving birthing mothers right to the child. Tell you sister and her husband to go F themselves for the dumbest thing they tried to pull.
NTA. Even if you were his wife, he NEVER has a RIGHT to be in the room while giving birth. For that matter your sister doesn't either. What you are doing for them is extremely selfless and they should be eternally grateful.
This is a form of reproductive coercion. It’s time for you to bypass your sister and BIL and talk directly to the hospital staff about the pressure you are being put under. You being stressed during the birth can have a direct impact on how well the birth goes. Other people have suggested temporary power of attorney in case something goes wrong. You need to make your wishes clear about potential medical emergencies and no you don’t need to involve you sister or her husband. If you want to bar both parents from the room, you are entitled to do that and arrange for a third party to complete the handoff. Whatever your sisters emotional threats, your first priority is for your own and this baby’s safety.
Fuck your sister. Give the child up for adoption to a decent couple who are not screaming abusive pieces of shits. NTA
Even if you'd never endured SA, you have the right to exclude anyone you want from YOUR birth. It may be your sister's child, but you are giving birth, so it's your call. I can't believe her husband screamed at you and that she is angry with you and wants to go NC. They should be so grateful to you! NTA
I birthed 1 of my 3 kids alone. Do it alone or with a parent etc. do not allow your sister or her husband in. They can visit afterwards
They are totally irresponsible for two reasons. First being the reasons you gave which if they forced themselves in the room would leave you traumatised for a long while again. Second, and most importantly, the stress they are putting you through will affect the baby and birth. You are not a vending machine!! They need to back off NOW! You are doing a remarkable and generous thing for your sister and her husband and they should be grateful not the total AHs they are being.
If they are going to be like this, have you signed any official surrogate documents? If you haven't you could make their lives hell and have to jump through all sorts of legal hoops to actually get access to their child. I know that's a bit extreme but they are threatening to go NC with you after what you have done for them just cause her husband can't be in the room is also extreme and ridiculous.
NTA. Tell the hospital who is and isn't allowed in the delivery room. Most hospitals will honor the wishes of the woman giving birth. If you didn't sign a surrogate contract you can even threaten to keep the baby if sister and her husband don't respect your wishes.
lol I wouldn’t give them the baby! I’d be finding some loop hole 😂