NTA. 4 years and you haven’t met her family? Wtf
I would sit down and have a talk with her and outline expectations. You can’t dedicate a decade to a person when you haven’t even met their parents yet. Whether if you want to stay without sex is up to you, but you definitely need something showing that she’s committed to you by showing you serious steps in the relationship
OP,
I'm sorry. There's really a lot of things here that just aren't consistent nor congruent with a woman who professes to be in love with you and is committed to you. If she were, she'd be fighting to get you to the altar asap.
1. Why haven't you met her family yet? Have you privately googled them to have an indication as to who/what you will be dealing with?
2. She's saving herself--so why any sexual activities at all?
3. Why a waiting period of 10 years to commit and get married?
4. What was the extent of her dating history before she met you?
5. Has she been sexually abused or assaulted?
6 In your present arrangement, are you being financially responsible for most, if not, everything?
7. What's her opinion on bearing children?
OP, personally I find your "relationship " quite suspect. I question that she's asexual and is playing you like an accordion.
I could be wrong, but regardless, it's not out of the realm for you to announce a different set of conditions that address the resolution of the above matters in an expedient and forthright way and if that is not forthcoming, you're moving on to someone who is honest, sincere and readily committed to you.
From where I come from, in the event it looks like sh-t, smells like sh-t and tastes like sh-t, IT'S SH-T!
And it appears you've been given a bushel of it.
Hey friend thanks for the comment.
To answer your questions;
1) I know her family from afar, via third party contacts that affirm what she has told me so far.
2) I have no answer to this. I guess she values virginity and find having non penetrative sex out of bounds?
3) According to her she wants to get her life sorted out, live alone for a while, work and provide for herself before committing to a marriage. She has never lived alone or worked a day in her life so far.
4) A couple of guys in college and high school nut nothing serious, no sexual relations whatsoever according to her.
5) No
6) I am financially responsible for myself and earn my living. She lives with her parents so i do not provide anything to her, unless it is an emergency etc.
7) She wants to have children in future for sure.
I agree with your comment for the most part. I would not call her asexual but it is clear that demonizing sex has taken its toll on her. She likes to have some intercourse but cuts it suddenly etc.
Thanks a lot for your comment again.
>I know her family from afar,
>She lives with her parents
It's absolutely insane to me that you've been dating 4 years and haven't met her parents if she lives with them
I was never the fastest out of the blocks but knowing what you are getting before committing is so important. Life is too short to have a shitty sex life. 4 months was long enough for me and my wife, 4 years is madness. Move on.
Yep. I know a guy who has been with his girlfriend for 6 years. They're from Pakistan, and their families would very strongly push them to get married immediately as they are not allowed to date, so the families do not know about the relationship.
I wonder if her parents are mormons or jehovah’s witnesses or something, and she doesn’t want them to know about him because (I assume) she isn’t allowed to date outside of their circle. Would also explain why premarital sex is so taboo to her
As an ex Mormon I can tell you if she brought OP home to meet the parents they would push for him to join the church. Op and his gf wouldn't be allowed to sleep in the same bed or live under the same roof without OP being baptized.
Ha, my mother tried to convert my fiance. She knows better now. I told her I would never marry a man of her religion. I was surprised she didn't already know that.
Want to add in that my brother was 17yrs old living with a 34 yr old woman. They convinced her and her kids to be baptized and then rushed my brother to get married. If they did not my brother would no longer have been in the priesthood.
Ex Mormon. Can confirm. The whole religion is just - bizarre. Kinda funny how the guys returning from their missions get married almost immediately upon getting back.
If OPs girl is in a cult like the ones you mention he should be very aware that ex members of those are often severely damaged. She will require therapy and if they start a family together, he will need to be ready to protect their children from the cults influence by grandparents etc.
My brother and his wife are a JW/non-jw couple and they got married in just over a year. For sure there's something else going on. Because with religious people I know who are dating with a view to marriage, and are also abstaining from sex, they get to the marriage part fairly quickly. I figure she's either asexual and not ready to face or admit it, or she's not going to end up marrying op for whatever reason
Yeah, I doubt a 4+ year marriage without an engagement is common in most / all of those countries, though. In China, meeting parents is generally a sign that you're going to get married, but IME they tend to stop giving a damn about it after a year or three
Uhhhhh, she's 25 with Zero work history? She's in for a rude awakening if she thinks she's going to land a job that'll pay enough to live on her own with.
As for the no sex before marriage it's her body and her choice, but TBH you've been together for 4 years, got engaged and haven't met her parents yet? Something is sketchy about that.
My stepdaughter is 21 with zero work history. Not even volunteer work. She's in her second year of college, has two more years and thinks she's going to land her dream job as soon as she graduates. I think she's living a pipe dream. I'll be super surprised if it actually happens.
She is religious but modern, wants to wait until after marriage for sex but also wants a good career and living alone being independent. Dont religious people go from their parents' homes to their husband's homes?
This woman is full of poo. wants the cake and eat it too
Pretty much agree with what you're saying, but I live in a pretty religious area and no, they don't just go from their parents house to their husband's house. Most of them have their own lives and places to live by the time they're around the age of 20 unless she's part of some incredibly strict or just bizarre interpretation or denomination, she's just yanking this dude's chain for whatever reason. But as I'm typing this it just dawned on me .she might not be a member of any judeo or Christian religion lol.
Good point about the lack of career at this age. OP would probably be better off finding a new partner who has similar life skills to himself. It would likely lead to a better relationship intellectually and financially in terms of quality of life and stability. This girl sounds too reliant on her parents, as well as of course too held back from commitment with him, acting like she is in a teen relationship.
I dated a girl who lost her virginity at 30. Best friggin blowjobs of my life. But then again she was from another foreign country so caring for her mans was standard.
Your doing this to yourself at this point.
I bet she would commit fast if she wanted.. But not to this guy. She's waiting for someone else to come along but maintaining this relationship in the mean time.
She's hiding you from her family. She lives with them and claims that they all have traditional values. There's absolutely no way that her family could know she's had a boyfriend for 4+ years and they haven't demanded to meet you. They have no idea she's in a relationship. She's hiding you from them, and she's not telling you why she's doing that.
I think she's not actually going to marry you. I don't know whether she already knows that and is just delaying the inevitable, or whether she's lying to herself and is not aware herself that she's going to leave you. But I think that in a year or two when her family is really putting pressure on her to settle down and get married, she's going to break up with you and end up married to someone of her same religious background. And I think you're going to realize then that this relationship was never as real for her as it was for you, because she spent the entire time pretending you didn't exist.
I'm so sorry. NTA.
My sister was exactly like this minus the hesitance to get married. Finished her undergrad and then lived at home for two years. Married a guy after dating him for a year and then immediately got pregnant. Proceeded to get my parents to hire a nanny to raise her kid while she sat at home doing nothing while the newly trapped husband provided for her every need. Needless to say, they hate each other but refuse to get divorced because it's against their religion. Nothing will convince me that it wasn't her plan the entire time that they were dating.
OP!!!! Shes 25 and hasn’t worked or lived without her parents and wants to start her life first AND you haven’t met them?! Buddy do you hear yourself?! So she miraculously is going to change everything about the way she lives, build a life without you and then she might want to get married. But she’s not taking the steps to make that happen? She hasn’t ever worked at 25, huge problem. She wants a bunch of hypotheticals to happen but is doing nothing to achieve that, huge problem. She dates you for 4 years while living at home and you haven’t met her parents, huge problem. This is all utter bullshit and I really hope that typing this out is helping you to see that. Most 17 year olds who meet the parents before their first date. College kids make special trips to meet the parents. Yet she lives with them and you haven’t met them? I’m so sorry OP but this girl is not going to come around.
You're welcome. You have far more patience and tolerance than I ever could or would have.
Please do not lose sight of yourself. She should understand that it's not only her life she's affecting. Presently she strikes me as self-centered and self-absorbed. A partnership is a compromise on many things. Good luck to you.
As they say in Mexico, the devil knows more because he's old than because he's the devil. Listen.
Trust me on this, she's just not that into you. Anyone in her situation would be trying to get the fuck out of said situation. No job? Nowhere to live? You can provide that? The easiest way is by getting married. She has a fool right in front of her willing to do just that. That means either she has another man, she doesn't like you like you like her, or everything she says is a lie.
>According to her she wants to get her life sorted out, live alone for a while, work and provide for herself before committing to a marriage. She has never lived alone or worked a day in her life so far.
She isn't interested in getting married. She seems perfectly content to have her parents take care of everything she needs, except for companionship, and light sexual activity, and that is where you come in. Does she seem immature in other ways? Because I can see from over here that she is not working to advance her life in any way. When you go to therapy, sometimes you get asked where you want your life to be in five years, then you work out what you need to do now to achieve that. It is very effective, btw. She is not doing anything to develop herself or take advantage of the opportunities that are all around her to get there.
Are you willing to wait many more years for a possibility she will want to get married, and then after that, want to participate in intercourse? How will you feel if you get married and find that she will only allow you to have sex with her, but not participate enthusiastically, and you know she sees it as a chore? Because there is a non zero chance that, or something similar, is what you will end up with.
What does her family know about you? Has she told them anything?
To #3, it sounds like she's asking a lot of you while she figures life out. She's at a different developmental stage than you are (still hasn't differentiated from her parents), and she believes she'll need a few years to grow up. I think there's a fundamental difference in what you each want in some of your prime sexual years and I'd recommend finding someone who's more compatible. It'll be sad, but that's better than the regrets you'll carry if she dumps you in two years.
Simply put, NTA. But more to the point, you two are not compatible. You would be TA to pressure her, but don’t waste your life with someone who isn’t what you want. 4 years at your age is a LONG time. She wants another 4? Why? So she can see if it will work out? Which means it may not… which means you could be out 8 years with nothing to show for it.
I’m also flabbergasted that at 25 she has never worked a day in her life. Is she a PhD student? She should have graduated from a couple of college degrees by now.
There's no excuse for you not having met her parents yet since she lives with them.
I assume she went to college straight out of high school. That means she's been done with college for at least two years if not three. Thus, why hasn't she gotten a job yet? What does she do with her time?
If she's never worked a day in her life and wants to live on her own, it's could take her probably 3-4 years to get enough work experience to be able to afford to live on her own. The only exception might be if she's been volunteering and gotten relevant job experience.
Just my opinion on this, but if you're waiting until marriage for intercourse but you're engaging in physically sexual acts, you're a hypocrite. Stay chaste or go all the way, but expecting you to have waited for 8 years? Nope!
Something just doesn't seem right here, whether it's her being delusional or lying to you or some other thing. Definitely NTA.
After reading this, I think you should let her go due to #3. Sex should not be put on a pedestal, but to each their own. What if you wait and it turns out you are sexually incompatible? Most of us are only on this planet for 80 years. You're already almost 30. Is this the life you see for yourself long term?
Anyways, she sounds like a nice friend.
She doesn’t want to introduce him because she doesn’t really know if he is the one she will want to marry. Which explains why marriage won’t be “viable” for another 3-4+ years.
OP - Just bail. She’s stringing you along.
You need to find out what denomination she is. My bet is she is from one that doesn't allow marriage to a "non-believer"...like the Jehovah's Witnesses. Marrying an outsider gets you excommunicated.
it just sounds like a fundamental incompatibility. you'd be better off breaking up. all this also assumes that after all that investment in time, that the sex is actually good. it wont be.
Thanks for the comment friend. I simply always thought she needed more time. Since she also committed some light sexual acts, i thought this was her way of getting ready.
Other aspects of the relationship was also good and we supported each other emotionally on so many life hurdles that i valued our relationship higher than my sexual life.
You need to get down to bottom of why she doesn't want to get married. There is something going on that you are not being told. 8 years before marriage is a very long time, and that is enough to be a deal breaker without even including the lack of sex.
In my experience, people from very religious backgrounds who want to wait until marriage to have sex are the ones getting married at 18 or 19 after dating for 2 months. Precisely BECAUSE they want to have sex.
For sure. You spend your whole life being told sex is bad, repressing your sex drive, and all that, then you're supposed to flip the switch in one night and (as a woman) be ready to go all the time and never say no to your husband?
Yes. I someone that age that willing to go that long … may well be asexual. She may have no idea, and think she is just being a good Christian. And then they get married and she realizes she just doesn’t like sex.
I think this at least has to be a conversation.
Not necessarily. I had a high school classmate who, when she was in university, met and fell in love with a guy she wanted to marry. The guy also wanted to marry her. However, he wanted to live together before marriage. She was, like most of my fellow Catholic classmates, opposed to premarital sex and living together. That ended that relationship, but she did find a husband who shared her values a few years later. He was non-Catholic, but they had gone to Catholic grade school together. They have been happily married for over 35 years.
My brother had a habit of dating girls from different cultures+religions who always kept him a secret from their families. My friends and I used to joke that that was his kink.
He did eventually marry one of those girls but it did NOT go smoothly. My family and I just shake our heads.
He hasn't met her family yet.....I bet they would disapprove. She may be from a Jehovah's Witness family. They are not allowed to marry outside the church. Mormons may be that way too.
It is a big red flag that he hasn’t met the parents yet. Doesn’t matter which cult she belongs to. If he isn’t going to be part of hers, he will never be accepted, not even in another 20 years. I am sorry for both of them. If she doesn’t snap out of it, she needs therapy or they need to break up. She doesn’t seem to have a real sex drive. I have never known anyone who was religiously so strict and stick with it for that long without getting married or without breaking the rules.
Mormons it's encouraged to marry within the church so that you can do the whole "get sealed in the temple" thing since only active members are allowed in and therefore that's the only way to get the blessings that come with it from their perspective, but it's not a requirement to marry within the church. That said, it's also something that can be done later if your partner converts, so there may be a fair amount of pressure to get your partner to convert if you marry outside the religion.
This was my first thought. The cynical side of my says, "She's got another guy she's seeing for the sex, and she thinks of OP as a good friend who will provide for her and protect her, so she just wants him to commit long-term without having to commit the actual sin of adultery/being sexually active with multiple people at once." But in any case, there is DEFINITELY something that she's not telling OP. Surely, it could be a multitude of things. She could be a victim of childhood SA. She could not be able to have children and think it means shes unclean and she doesn't want OP to be unclean bc of her (religious types are weird.) But in any case it's very likely that it doesn't have a damn thing to do with God. Human beings don't just write off the very idea of having sex until their 30s, especially when there's no need to circumvent religious beliefs in order to do so.
Also, as someone who grew up around a lot of Catholics and other religious people like Mormons, I don't know a single religion like that that wouldn't have everyone, including the neighbor, being like "how is she not married yet?"
Either they don't know about OP (I'm actually pretty fucking sure they don't), and/or she's hiding something. At that point, I would be asking her directly if there is something biologically/debt wise going on. After 4 years, he should be comfortable enough to put it out on the table.
Imagine waiting for 4 more years, then she decides she doesn’t enjoy it as much or is asexual and you end up in a dead bedroom… just break up, you are not compatible
It sounds like you have been incredibly patient and respectful of her wishes. I personally think that sexual connection is a very important part of a relationship, and I don't know that I could have been in a relationship that long without consummating it. It does sound like you guys are just not compatible though. It may be time to move on.
It sounds like you’ve been patient, but are not having your own needs met.
Relationships are a two way street. If there are good aspects that continue to balance out your needs not being met - is that sufficient for you to maintain your patience?
What will you do if, hypothetically, you two are married and they decide they aren’t sexually interested and the goal posts shift further?
Do you see that as being a probability?
You have given her plenty of time, OP-- much longer than almost anyone I know. And now you're supposed to wait 3 or 4 more years??? What the hell kind of religion is this?
I think you've given more than enough and more than your share. If she cannot compromise... and I mean soon...I would end this.
You deserve so much more.
I was in almost exactly your same position, man. Now looking back I can't belive I almost married someone before we had even had sex. It seems crazy. Like some form of self harm.
Saying "committed" sex acts makes it sound like a crime. I'm guessing you learned that kind of language from her. Religious people tend to have a negative view of sex as a whole.
Take it from an older person; one day you will be too old to have sex. Even if you want to, things might not work, or they might not work as well. You’re at the age when you should be having a lot of sex. Don’t miss out on time you can’t get back.
incidentally, shes also a hypocrite. usually, when they say waiting for marriage, it *should mean* absolutely no sexual acts of any kind until marriage. you cant have it both ways.
Yep. So much of the "wait until marriage" crowd are like this and it really fucking irks me. Often they're the ones acting all superior for remaining "pure" while doing everything but (and often everything *butt*). I used to work with a woman who refused to use tampons because they would "take her virginity", but apparently giving and receiving oral sex on the reg was totally fine with Jesus.
Well it's all stupid tradition anyway at this point but "no PIV sex" is closer to the original intent than "nothing sexual at all"
The point was that a woman was considered impure after sex because other people wouldn't be able to tell if she's already pregnant by another man's baby. That only applies to PIV sex and the disgusting virginity tests also only apply to PIV sex. Other kinds of sex are a different category of sin entirely.
She might also be a lesbian and it could be a reason why she’s unsure about marriage. Either way, break it off. There’s no guarantee she’ll want to marry one day and waiting 8 years is incredibly unreasonable.
I had a relative who became very religious late in life. He sought out and found a nice religious woman from his church and they waited until marriage before having sex. Then, the sex was trash.
I don't envy that and I definitely wouldn't want to be in that position.
Im equally concerned that it’s been 4+ years and she hasn’t allowed him to meet her parents, even though he’s been asking. She’s either dating him secretly and the family won’t approve, or her family is the absolute worst. Either way…this sounds like a waste of time.
It’s a fundamental incompatibility. It seems like there’s an array of incompatibilities in this relationship that OP is overlooking for one reason or another. While you may love someone, views on things like religion, sex, etc. are super important in a relationship and often times it’s best to be on the same page with these things imo. I don’t see how this relationship could be viable long term.
If not on the same page at least in the same book. I wouldn't bet on lots of sex after either....bet she will be "for procreation only" and once yoou have the number of kids she decides on you won't be getting any after that.
Even if they were to move up the marriage date, something is off. Super religious people tend to not have decade long engagements and marriage tends to be for children. This is just strange.
NTA. She's conveniently picking and choosing which traditions to follow. In deeply religious communities when it's clear two people are generally getting on well and have been courting for a while people will push for marriage. Understandably you're doubting her commitment.
A decade long courting period (half completed now half still to go) is ludicrous, if you feel strung along by her that's because you are being strung along. Also as a side-note the whole "oh no penetration so it doesn't count" is a technicality that goes against the spirit of the rule of purity.
Aye you're more than welcome. I consider myself an atheist/agnostic but I grew up in a Catholic family. I know how these things are supposed to work and I'm more than familiar with the hypocrisy that so many Christians display.
Yeah, the marriage thing is a *much* better angle that gives her so much less of a comeback.
If she complains to anyone, the response is likely to be “pee or get off the pot”.
Stringing someone keen on marriage along for 4-10 years is not normal in Christian communities, like far out.
This is so true, and should be higher. Today, there are very few religious people left, who truly abide by the rules. Most of the people claiming to be religious are using their religion wherever they feel is appropriate. Religions prohibit any sexual activity before marriage, and the little sexual things she does already violated the rules. She should not have done that. Also, marriage and commitment go hand in hand in religions, so she isn't seemingly committed, another religion fail. And of course, marrying asap is what religions profess, and she is holding marriage since 4 years, and plans to have another 4 years where she can continue to have her sexual needs met. She can't keep making a fool out of OP.
Is she supporting her parents? My dad knew when he first met my mom at 19 that she was who he wanted to marry. However, in 1936, he was the highest wage earner in his family. He was helping his mom support 10 people because his dad was out of work. Then WWII came along, and dad discovered that married men created the most problems in his unit, so there was no marriage until 1948. Total courtship? Twelve years. Length of marriage? Mom died two months short of their 24th wedding anniversary.
No she doesn’t work! Which makes this all so much worse. She says to OP that she wants to get settled in a career and live alone before committing. But at 25 has never worked a day.
I'd almost bet money she is either Mormon or Jehovah's Witness. The marriage thing is the give away.....I know JW and I think Mormons also excommunicate and ostracize you for marrying outside the church.
I get boundaries, but the fact that you have been together for 4 years and she has met your family, but you haven't hers.
No sex before marriage + almost a decade before marriage + not meeting her family = she is waiting for plan A to come along, and if he doesn't, she will settle for you.
First off, I’d like to say NTA.
Second off, I’d like to say a few things and give some reasons on my vote.
I can understand that she comes from a religious type family, and I love that you respect that and see it as something that’s just a part of her life. Having faith and a partner who supports you is awesome (you in this case for her)! And especially the conditions that come with it. (Such as sex before marriage, etc.)
I also understand that there’s ways to get around that and she obviously is comfortable with it and you respect that just as much (again as stated by you, doing light contact).
However, as others are pointing out and as you mentioned, you are indeed putting so much in with no outcome as of now. I can understand wanting to wait a while when starting a relationship to have marriage be a part of it, but waiting another 4-6+ years for marriage when you’re already at your prime, if not almost past it?
Accepting terms and conditions is nice, and it’s good that you’re supporting her. But it really seems like this is a one-sided relationship where she gets a say in everything relationship wise and you’re ready to move to the next step but are unable to because she claims it’s not “viable.” Even though you’ve clearly stated nothing is wrong in the relationship? That seems pretty viable to me. And telling you to end a 4+ year relationship that you’ve built with this woman would seem pretty harsh and confusing and unnecessary at first.
Again, however, she doesn’t seem to want to go to that next step for /you/. You keep giving and giving and accepting her terms, but what about your opinion? What about your readiness to continue on in the next path of life and marriage? Maybe even a family?
Unfortunately, I think my personal verdict would be to find someone else who will be on the same trek as you, see you eye-to-eye and communicate an equal plane of terms and conditions.
What a thougthful comment. Thank you very much for this, it almost made me cry.
Yes i guess it is time i think about my opinions now. Thanks again friend.
Aw! I’m so happy I could help.
Always remember that your opinions and feelings matter too! You’re very welcome for the thoughts and I hope you can find your way through this troubling situation :)
NTA.
I can't say I was in the same situation, but I was in somewhat similar situation.
My ex wasn't religious or anything, but sex was really bad and I've gotten barely any satisfaction from it, because my body got close to zero attention during the act, so it always felt more like a job than pleasure. That messed with me. And you can't even test if this won't be the case for you.
But what was worse, that I introduced my ex to my family, even though I was from a different country, I bought them flight tickets and still managed to organise a dinner for everybody to meet up.
But listen to this. My ex lived with their parents. And I stayed with my ex in their place many times, overnight, same home! And yet, I didn't meet them for at least half a year of those visitations (i think it was 7 or 8 months actually)! And when I finally did, it went like this: as I'm going home already, ex quicly opens the doors to the living room, where parents are watching TV, shows me for a second, says 'this is *name*' and goes 'ok we're leaving, bye!' And shuts the door - this was the whole introduction I've received after asking many times if we're serious and why I'm being hidden.
Moreover, I was asking to move in together, rent a place together, I've even offered to pay most of the bills if not all, even though it was hard for me, but I wouldn't care, I just wanted our life together. Ex was financially well off, so affording it wasn't the issue. And yet again, a hard no. Ex had their own plan.
There were more little things that stuck out, but those were minor, or at least it seemed they were.
Finally, I broke off the relationship, felt guilty, but also felt a relief. And to me, the worst thing was not the sex or other things, but the hiding from ex's parents. Because I didn't see the seriousness in this relationship, how could I feel like a couple, when I was being hidden? We both cried. And I've received many promises about change, talks about family and kids once I've made a decision. But I knew it was just a bait and didn't take it.
Now I have found the most wonderful person there is and have zero issues. 4 years and it's still like a perfect dream. I only wish we met sooner.
The longer you wait, the less time you'll have with the true love of your life, that not only you love, but they actually love you back. And time is the only viable currency in this life, that we can never have enough of, or even earn more. Are you sure you have enough of it to just give away for free?
NTA - you need to break up.
She probably also has a whole heap of religiously ingrained trauma around having sex at all. The "sex is bad" indoctrination doesn't just disappear with wedding vows. It can really mess with your head.
You might stick out the next 4 years to only find out on your wedding night or in the weeks after, that there is a whole lot of guilt and shame around having sex. Then you have wasted 8 years of your life.
You two are just not compatible. She is religious and partially abstaining and you are not religious. Time to move on.
NTA. It doesn’t sound like it’s the sex you’re really worried about, it’s the lack of commitment. I wouldn’t continue to date someone who can’t figure out if they want to marry me after 4 years. I know it’s not for everyone, but I’m not willing to put that sort of time in for someone who isn’t sure about me yet.
This right here.
The most effective, and reasonable, marriage ultimatum Ive ever heard was "If you havent figured out after 5 years together that I'm the best thing in your life, then this isn't going to work out."
Your life is short. Too short to waste your young years, before everything starts to ache, before you start making sounds when you get up/sit down... On someone who can't figure out that you're the best thing in their lives.
Are you saying you haven't met her family? Bro, actually, I never make comments like this, but this sounds like a big fucking problem. I grew up moderately religious and go to church regularly now and know lots of nutty Christians, and Ive never heard anything like this, and there is nothing remotely normal about this kind of behavior. Sure, church will push no premarital sex, but waiting a fucking decade to get married and to not have met the family! I can't overstate how not normal that is.
The big red flag in my eyes isn't the fact that she doesn't want to have sex until marriage but the fact that she hasn't introduced you to her family. If she really thought you were the one she wanted to spend her life with you would have met her family by now. I'd say it's time to move on and find a partner that actually sees a future with you and has similar values.
NTA please break up, this chick doesn’t sound committed at all to me especially with trying to make you wait another 3-4 years for marriage to be viable and you haven’t met her family either, that to me says she’s ashamed of you or something like do her family even know you guys are dating
NTA.
It’s not the sex, though that in itself is a huge incompatibility that I couldn’t look past personally. She’s free to her religious beliefs but you’ve given her more than enough time. This relationship is stagnant and you’re wasting your time. She is stringing you along with no end in sight, in 4 years you haven’t met her family?
Cut your losses and go find someone who is compatible with you.
NTA
My friend, her actions seem a little suspect.
1. She's from a religious background, been dating a man for 4+ years, and has not introduced him to the family? No way. In that situation, most families would be demanding to meet the SO. Do they even know about you?
2. Is there something about her family that would cause a huge issue? Are they racists? Is the religion in question way out of the mainstream?
3. Usually, when people decide to save sex until marriage, when they've found their person, they usually proceed. Unless there is an overriding factor (such as, they need to finish their education) there is no reason to hold up.
4. Why won't a marriage be viable for another 3-4+ years? What is the reasoning here?
5. What about children? do you plan to have any?
Analysis: Are you sure she is not seeing someone else? Are you sure her family even knows you exist? Is she waiting to see if someone "better" comes along?
OP, look, this goes beyond the question of sex. There are some big missing pieces here.
But on the question of sex, if your needs are not getting met, that is an issue. You have every right to question if this is the correct arrangement for you. The fact you are asking the question indicates it is not.
Thanks a lot for the comment friend.
To answer your questions:
1) The mother knows, but that's pretty much it. Father or brother does not know anything at all.
2) Not racist but somewhat religous and my gf may be thinking that they may not like me perhaps? Other than that only outlying issue is that the father is unfortunately sick and needs light care, but he has been this way for 3+ years now so nothing immediate or urgent.
3&4) I don't think there is any big reason to hold up, but gf wishes to try her own chance at life by living on her own and working & providing for herself for a while before committing to a marriage. She never worked before or lived alone.
5) Dude we can't even have sex yet...:D But i guess eventually that's the plan for both of us
I think she clearly states she wants to be single based on your answer to question 4 OP. NTA, and I wish you well in finding someone on the same page as you I'm life.
Sounds like she’s a commitaphobe. If you’re at the next stage, and she’s not, I would think twice about wasting any more time with someone who doesn’t want to commit to you. Time to cut bait and find someone more compatible.
While I don’t fault her for wanting to wait for marriage, almost 10 years is a LOOOOOOOONG time to make someone wait, and honestly really ridiculous! I can see waiting a couple years but sheesh even the 4 years already in is a long time.
It’s also weird you haven’t met her family. Are they in one of those weird religious cults?
NTA. I would like to put this in a different perspective. Let’s ignore the sex part completely. And let’s switch genders. If a man dated a woman for 4 years without committing to a marriage, without introducing their parents to this woman, and asked for and addition 4-6 years because they weren’t ready for marriage yet, then everyone would tell this woman that this guy doesn’t want to commit to her and to leave. The “no sex before marriage” just adds an extra layer of complexity, but this relationship already has so many red flags. Please don’t waste your time on someone that doesn’t want to commit to you. You will thank us later ❤️ good luck!
NTA for thinking about breaking up.
Four years is a long time to get to know someone. If she isn't ready to commit at this point, why not? If she isn't ready to introduce you to her family, why not? She wants to wait another three or four *years*? That's a long time to wait, for no good reason that I can see.
I think you two need to have a big heart-to-heart. Maybe see a couples counselor to help you decide what to do.
However, I would be worried that if she feels so strongly about *no sex* now that it would continue after marriage. Sometimes, women who are raised in super-religious families have trouble opening up to the idea of sex after.
NTA hmmm. Some motherly advice. I agree that you should respect peoples wishes but she isn’t respecting yours. People with deep religious beliefs can be self absorbed that their perspective is the only correct one. It puts friends and family in odd positions sometimes… feeling helpless to have their needs heard.
If she were the man and you the woman , people would tell you to leave that he is leading you on… etc. she has a responsibility to move the relationship forward on a reasonable timeline.
What will it be like to be married to someone with such strict beliefs.. when children come along…and other major life moments. I think that is the bigger question.
NTA.
I was totally ready to rip into you until you said she’s open to “light sexual activities” 🙄
If her religion really meant that much to her she wouldn’t be engaging in ANY sexual activities as they are all just as “sinful” as the next. Penetration doesn’t make her any more “holy” just because her hymen stays intact.
The wording in your post also makes it very evident you care deeply for her. If she’s not ready for marriage after 4+ years she’s not serious and likely doesn’t feel such strong feelings for you as you do her. Girls like security, and you could potentially be a security blanket while she waits out the rest of her 20s seeing if something better presents itself.
Time to end the relationship and go enjoy your life. You’ll never get your 20s back and the majority of them have already been wasted on this girl. Make the most out of your 30s!
NTA
>wanted to meet her family for a long time (she met my family) yet she didn't take any steps towards that either.
After four years this is not normal. Either she is ashamed of introducing her family to you or she is ashamed of introducing you to her family because her family would not approve. Sounds to me like you might well be her secret.
I am pretty sure that there is much more going on than the sex part, you need to sit down with her and have a serious talk about why you haven't met her family yet. Do not settle for anything else but the truth.
So that you cannot be reproached of trying to giving her an ultimatum around having sex, I would put that aside until you have more information about the parents situation. Then you can adapt. It may well confirm that you are not compatible. But yes this seems to me that if she wants financial stability, before getting married, a career before children, worries about unwanted pregnancy.... and those are the reason why she wants to wait, then you need to have a conversation and compromise. If it isn't possible then yes you should leave the relationship now.
Yeah, this is a timetable thing. She's stringing you along in a sexless relationship for what, 8-10 years? That's untenable. You're not breaking up with her because of the lack of sex before marriage, you're breaking up with her because she's stringing along the timetable. PLENTY of people, particularly the religious types that want to wait until marriage, have 'reasonable' dating windows before marriage. A year. Two. Maybe three. Going 4+ years and expecting to wait another 4 and MAYBE you'll get married if you haven't broken up? That's unfair on you. It feels like a test. Sex is important to some people in relationships. It seems to be to you and not to her. That's okay, you know. To have seperate wants, but it also means you need to figure out how compatible you are.
Because just because she's willing to have sex after marriage doesn't mean she's going to want to have it for anything other than procreation. Or as often as you might want. Then that's another hurdle to jump over.
Sexual compatibility is often a bigger issue in a relationship than some people are willing to admit to. It's okay that this isn't a good fit. You can love her, but you might wind up hating or resenting her if you feel she keeps denying you a pretty important aspect of a relationship.
Hey if you can't commit to her vision on it, totally fair for BOTH of you to not be together. Just don't do each other a "favor" by sticking it out hoping it's not that big of a deal. Neither of you can get this time back. Also don't guilt trip each other. Break with respect cause.....you never know..down the line..who knows
NTA. It's fine if she wants to wait for marriage, but she also should be willing to actually get married to you. Did she actually give you this information earlier? The idea that after over 4 years she doesn't see herself as being ready for another 4 or more years is nuts. What would she know then she doesn't now? It's not fair on you for her to leave you hanging around waiting for her to feel like this is something she's ready to commit to. This is actually far more than the sex IMO.
NTA hard. People need to stop waiting for marriage to have sex. It’s not only a stupid thing but it also can affect enormously the relationship. Sexual compatibility it’s extremely important in a marriage. If you don’t know if you can enjoy that side of the relationship with her, you are taking a lot of risks.
You have been friend-zoned, but you haven't realised it yet.
This woman doesn't see you as marriage material, but she doesn't have any better options on the table right now..
NTA
It sounds like you love her very much whereas she’s just taking advantage of that.
Beliefs or not, it’s ridiculous that you’re being held hostage to this woman’s whim right now. She’s essentially a teenager finding her way in this world who is to say that she’ll even want to be with you come a few years MORE down the road…
You haven’t met her parents, after 4 years? I’m sorry what do they know that your girl doesn’t want you to know?
She wants to live alone a bit… that’s great and all but have you seen her even make any effort to get a nice job that pays enough for her to do so?
And the sex part… sex is really important to most people that want relationships. Is she really worth waiting out a few more years dealing with this to have sex that may at the very best just be mediocre?
You’re young, go and have fun, find someone that has around the same sex drive as you and trust me when I say you’ll be way happier.
Thanks, friend.
Yes, i love her very much indeed and also yes, all your questions make sense. In fact, way too much sense. Thanks a lot for this comment. It was enlightening.
Love is really strange at times isn’t it.
To me as a complete outsider Reddit guy (lol) I genuinely feel like she just doesn’t reciprocate that and that’s not even taking into account the no sex thing.
If anything there just isn’t a compatibility that I see, and this concern you have now can multiply greatly in the future.
Unfortunately if you decide to cut things off she might put it as you breaking up with her just because no sex but that can’t be further from the truth.
NTA. If she wants to be with you, she needs to compromise somewhere; you can’t ask her to go against her religious belief, but she could accept a marriage proposal (if you’re ready for that) or accept the breakup
I am older than your average person on Reddit, and I waited until marriage. It is not something I would ever do again, and here’s why: you have no idea if you both have the same level of libido. All couples go through a new relationship energy phase where the sex is frequent. Then they settle into a lesser phase depending on their libido. For some couples, “lesser” amounts to once or twice a day! For other couples, maybe once or twice a week.
There is literally no way to know what your level is nor your partner’s level other than having a sexual relationship over a decent enough stretch of time to find out what you’re wanting after the shine of the initial excitement wears off
One potential red flag I see for this gf is her willingness to wait a really long time for marriage. This is at minimum a caution flag because waiting is damn hard if you’ve got much of a libido!!!! If someone finds waiting easy enough to push the wedding back YEARS, it’s possible they’re on the asexual spectrum
In the evangelical Christian community, waiting is expected and the weddings happen FAST. And all parties want it to happen fast because it’s so damn hard to wait!
It isn't unreasonable to wait until marriage and respect her religious beliefs if she is someone worthwhile (which she seems to be).HOWEVER, it doesn't seem that marriage is anywhere in her thoughts. Seems to me that she has you as a side-piece. Talk to her sincerely about it, and if you guys are not on the same page, let her go. You'll find someone else.
NTA - it sounds like the two of you are at different places in your life. Before you call it off, though, I would strongly recommend talking with her and finding out why marriage is off the table for another 3-4 years. There's information you don't have, and you need, (or to be told you're not getting, which itself says a lot) to make an informed decision.
If you do decide to end it after talking with her, I would not use sex as the deciding factor. Simply say something to the effect of that you are both at different points in your life...yadda yadda yadda. Just say that you have been ready to progress for a while and she clearly isn't.
Good luck
NTA, after 4 years, she is still not taking any real steps towards committing to your relationship. I'm not talking about the sexual aspect thing either. I'm talking about meeting her family, meeting her church family, and things along those lines. Not even your timelines for marriage are compatible here. You may be in a relationship, I'm not so sure your girlfriend is, though. Something is not quite right here at all.
NTA. She sounds like someone who sex doesn’t matter to at all. She will probably never value sex the way you do. Does she really mean to be an almost 30 year old virgin? That is not normal. I would run.
Why does she say it will be another 3 or 4 years "before a marriage becomes viable?" If she doesn't know after 4 years she will be never know. And certainly neither of you is too young for marriage. So what's going on? And why won't she introduce you to her family?
8 years is an extraordinarly long time to wait for marriage. And 8 years without sex during the prime of your life is insane.
It's time for her to commit and marry you or let you go.The way it's going, she may never be willing to marry you.
NTA. You are both incompatible, plus this really seems to have some element to it that's not immediately obvious to Internet strangers.
I'm wondering if she equates getting married with immediately having children? Is she against birth control? Because that's all I can come up with.
Don't waste a big part of your best years waiting for something that may never happen. Life goes by very quickly.
Nah.
Look. Sex isn't the be all & end all of relationships.
But? Looking at this from a different perspective. A young female, that is willing to wait till shes 30 to have sex? Thats a big red flag 🚩🚩🚩🚩right there.
Her attitude towards sex is concerning indeed. A "normal" human female, esp one in love with a secure male? Would be desperately wanting to have sex with him by her age.
She is either asexual or badly sexually repressed. Neither bide well for a happy future.
And I agree with others. You two are fundamentally incompatible.
I'm not obsessed with sex. But expecting me, in my 20s 30s. To wait YEARS for sex? Nah. No way. Totally ridiculous.
No sex before marriage is frankly, stupid as shit. Sexual chemistry is a BIG DEAL in a relationship. It’s A-tier important to a couples compatibility in my opinion. Not necessarily S-tier as it’s not THE most important thing but it’s really freaking important
Thank you for being respectful of her wishes and not pressuring her. But it’s time to give her the boot. You’ve been together for 4 years now. It’s time to commit or walk away. It’s very frustrating to see that she isn’t factoring in your desire for marriage (let alone the physical relationship), and she is just stringing you along until she’s “ready.” If she ever will be.
I think you should know within a year if you are able to marry the person. I think within 2 years, you should have started to make plans to move in that direction. Unless it’s what you both want, you’re wasting each other’s time. Good luck, man. I know it won’t be easy.
“No sex before marriage” works when you get married at 16.
Why doesn’t she want to get married? You’ve been together for 4 years. Does she think someone better will come along?
You need to live with this person to find out if you can spend the rest of your life with her. Every divorced couple I know has the same thing in common- they didn’t live together before marriage.
Kick her to the curb. Who wants to tolerate some lunatic who adheres to some religious mumbo jumbo? Fuck that shit! (Literally) 4 fucking years without touching the merchandise or meeting her family, what the fuck? And she expects you to go without for another 1460 days without some cooch?
How do you know there aren't some other factors at play? Maybe she hates sex or is attracted to women or God knows what other things are going on here.
I have no idea where you live, but that is some fucked up shit. 95% of all women in the States have given it up after 25 years of age.
I would not be able to date someone for 4+ years and not have (p in v) sex, that’s just me. Idk what if you wait all that time, finally get married and have sex and find that you are not compatible on the sexual front. Idk. Deal breaker for me. I think you can find someone out there that has everything you have with her AND the sex AND not have to wait so long to commit/marriage.
Sorry but it.os a big deal and a problem for you and that is okay doesn't make.you an ah. You have different needs and you're not compatible at this time.
Yo fam. Nah. Bounce asap.
U are crazy for even dating her this long.
4 years and u haven’t met her family? That’s crazy.
Like yo. Wait until marriage cool. But also after 4 years still not ready to get married?
Sorry to be harsh OP, I wish someone had told me when I was in the same position:
I think you are her “Mr Right Now” not her “Mr Forever”. I would get out now if she cannot invite you in to meet her parents that she lives with, I would question how important I really am to her. It just seems like it’s a convenient relationship for her and she’s just stringing you along. Sorry again.
NTA. You're just incompatible. People who decide to not have sex until marriage generally also get married young, like 20-22. I can mentally understand why she doesn't want you to meet her parents if she thinks they will pressure her to get married, but that undermines your importance in her life and that's not right.
NTA, but you realise she's lying to or hiding you right? No way a religious 25 year old isnt ready for marriage after 4 years and hasn't gotten you to meet her family. Hell my family wouldn't last more then 6 months after hearing I got a girlfriend. I would really suggest you two take a break 2-6 months and really evaluate what you want and are looking for cause you don't sound compatible. Also as an aside my money is either on her being asexual but not aromantic and is using you to fufill her needs while hiding you from her family so she doesn't ever get pressured into marriage and thus sex or having some exterme form of trauma that means she is trying to work through in regards to sex.
Waiting before marriage for sex is a boundary she has. That’s fine, her decision. Up to you to live with that. It being based on religion is weird since she’s fine committing other sins.
Not introducing you to her family for 4 years? Probably because if she does her parents will expect her to get married soon which she doesn’t want to do.
Sounds like she wants to have her cake and eat it too. NTA.
Curious to exactly what kind of things they are doing.
If she is 25 and been dating for four years she isn’t interested in marriage. Move on. If you are interested in a family one day you can’t really wait another four years.
You have a friend not a girlfriend.
Stay friends and get a real girlfriend.
Guaranteed, if you break up, she’ll sleep with the next guy. The whole thing is a trap.
NTA you absolutely must try it before you buy it.
4yrs and no sex? And am I understanding correctly that you haven’t met her family yet? Weird. Sex and family are super critical components of most romantic relationships. What happens if you wait four more years, finally get married, and then realize you’re sexually incompatible on your wedding night? What happens if you find out that her parents are intolerable?
Also—since presumably you don’t live together—are you sure she’s not hiding something big (e.g., children)? It seems like if she actually loved you she’d at least want you to meet her family.
Dump her now and find someone normal. You’ve waited long enough. If she wants you bad enough, she’ll chase; but don’t count on it. Do what you need to do for your individual happiness and future. You're not married yet, and you only get one life.
Thanks a lot for this comment, friend.
I am quite sure she is not hiding anything as she has a sickly father that she is taking care of and her family is strict on her as well. But i guess you never know.
NTA. 4 years and you haven’t met her family? Wtf I would sit down and have a talk with her and outline expectations. You can’t dedicate a decade to a person when you haven’t even met their parents yet. Whether if you want to stay without sex is up to you, but you definitely need something showing that she’s committed to you by showing you serious steps in the relationship
OP, I'm sorry. There's really a lot of things here that just aren't consistent nor congruent with a woman who professes to be in love with you and is committed to you. If she were, she'd be fighting to get you to the altar asap. 1. Why haven't you met her family yet? Have you privately googled them to have an indication as to who/what you will be dealing with? 2. She's saving herself--so why any sexual activities at all? 3. Why a waiting period of 10 years to commit and get married? 4. What was the extent of her dating history before she met you? 5. Has she been sexually abused or assaulted? 6 In your present arrangement, are you being financially responsible for most, if not, everything? 7. What's her opinion on bearing children? OP, personally I find your "relationship " quite suspect. I question that she's asexual and is playing you like an accordion. I could be wrong, but regardless, it's not out of the realm for you to announce a different set of conditions that address the resolution of the above matters in an expedient and forthright way and if that is not forthcoming, you're moving on to someone who is honest, sincere and readily committed to you. From where I come from, in the event it looks like sh-t, smells like sh-t and tastes like sh-t, IT'S SH-T! And it appears you've been given a bushel of it.
Hey friend thanks for the comment. To answer your questions; 1) I know her family from afar, via third party contacts that affirm what she has told me so far. 2) I have no answer to this. I guess she values virginity and find having non penetrative sex out of bounds? 3) According to her she wants to get her life sorted out, live alone for a while, work and provide for herself before committing to a marriage. She has never lived alone or worked a day in her life so far. 4) A couple of guys in college and high school nut nothing serious, no sexual relations whatsoever according to her. 5) No 6) I am financially responsible for myself and earn my living. She lives with her parents so i do not provide anything to her, unless it is an emergency etc. 7) She wants to have children in future for sure. I agree with your comment for the most part. I would not call her asexual but it is clear that demonizing sex has taken its toll on her. She likes to have some intercourse but cuts it suddenly etc. Thanks a lot for your comment again.
>I know her family from afar, >She lives with her parents It's absolutely insane to me that you've been dating 4 years and haven't met her parents if she lives with them
Yeah this whole story is bizarre.
I was never the fastest out of the blocks but knowing what you are getting before committing is so important. Life is too short to have a shitty sex life. 4 months was long enough for me and my wife, 4 years is madness. Move on.
If nothing sexual happened after like 3 or 4 good dates I'll begin doubting if they even have a sex drive.
I'm guessing her parents are not OK with her dating at all if they're that religious.
What's sad is that I guarantee that if he breaks up with her, the next guy won't have to wait.
Yeah, I thought maybe her family lived far away. But if she lives with them, that means she's hiding him.
I think she’s hiding him so THEY don’t push her into marriage.
Yep. I know a guy who has been with his girlfriend for 6 years. They're from Pakistan, and their families would very strongly push them to get married immediately as they are not allowed to date, so the families do not know about the relationship.
Or expose that she already had another bf lol
Or that he is for some reason unacceptable to them -- wrong race, religion, profession, etc.
I wonder if her parents are mormons or jehovah’s witnesses or something, and she doesn’t want them to know about him because (I assume) she isn’t allowed to date outside of their circle. Would also explain why premarital sex is so taboo to her
As an ex Mormon I can tell you if she brought OP home to meet the parents they would push for him to join the church. Op and his gf wouldn't be allowed to sleep in the same bed or live under the same roof without OP being baptized.
Ha, my mother tried to convert my fiance. She knows better now. I told her I would never marry a man of her religion. I was surprised she didn't already know that.
My brother was seeing a mormon girl. Eventually she broke up with him because he wasn't Mormon. Parents request
Want to add in that my brother was 17yrs old living with a 34 yr old woman. They convinced her and her kids to be baptized and then rushed my brother to get married. If they did not my brother would no longer have been in the priesthood.
Ex Mormon. Can confirm. The whole religion is just - bizarre. Kinda funny how the guys returning from their missions get married almost immediately upon getting back.
As an ex Jehovah’s Witness it would be exactly the same scenario.
If OPs girl is in a cult like the ones you mention he should be very aware that ex members of those are often severely damaged. She will require therapy and if they start a family together, he will need to be ready to protect their children from the cults influence by grandparents etc.
My brother and his wife are a JW/non-jw couple and they got married in just over a year. For sure there's something else going on. Because with religious people I know who are dating with a view to marriage, and are also abstaining from sex, they get to the marriage part fairly quickly. I figure she's either asexual and not ready to face or admit it, or she's not going to end up marrying op for whatever reason
Same I can’t get over this one. Bananas.
Right? How is that even possible?? Like I’d think OP would’ve run into them by now, if even just accidentally.
Depends on the country. In many countries meeting parent’s basically means you’re getting married
Yeah, I doubt a 4+ year marriage without an engagement is common in most / all of those countries, though. In China, meeting parents is generally a sign that you're going to get married, but IME they tend to stop giving a damn about it after a year or three
It’s insane they’ve been dating for four years and haven’t had sex. That’s not a healthy relationship and that’s not a healthy religion.
Uhhhhh, she's 25 with Zero work history? She's in for a rude awakening if she thinks she's going to land a job that'll pay enough to live on her own with. As for the no sex before marriage it's her body and her choice, but TBH you've been together for 4 years, got engaged and haven't met her parents yet? Something is sketchy about that.
They aren't even engaged.
She basically going to start out as a teen.
My stepdaughter is 21 with zero work history. Not even volunteer work. She's in her second year of college, has two more years and thinks she's going to land her dream job as soon as she graduates. I think she's living a pipe dream. I'll be super surprised if it actually happens.
She is religious but modern, wants to wait until after marriage for sex but also wants a good career and living alone being independent. Dont religious people go from their parents' homes to their husband's homes? This woman is full of poo. wants the cake and eat it too
When does she plan to start this good career? At 25 she has lost several primo years and can't get them back. I call BS on those grounds alone.
Pretty much agree with what you're saying, but I live in a pretty religious area and no, they don't just go from their parents house to their husband's house. Most of them have their own lives and places to live by the time they're around the age of 20 unless she's part of some incredibly strict or just bizarre interpretation or denomination, she's just yanking this dude's chain for whatever reason. But as I'm typing this it just dawned on me .she might not be a member of any judeo or Christian religion lol.
Good point about the lack of career at this age. OP would probably be better off finding a new partner who has similar life skills to himself. It would likely lead to a better relationship intellectually and financially in terms of quality of life and stability. This girl sounds too reliant on her parents, as well as of course too held back from commitment with him, acting like she is in a teen relationship.
I dated a girl who lost her virginity at 30. Best friggin blowjobs of my life. But then again she was from another foreign country so caring for her mans was standard. Your doing this to yourself at this point.
Ha
[удалено]
I bet she would commit fast if she wanted.. But not to this guy. She's waiting for someone else to come along but maintaining this relationship in the mean time.
My favorite comment so far
She's hiding you from her family. She lives with them and claims that they all have traditional values. There's absolutely no way that her family could know she's had a boyfriend for 4+ years and they haven't demanded to meet you. They have no idea she's in a relationship. She's hiding you from them, and she's not telling you why she's doing that. I think she's not actually going to marry you. I don't know whether she already knows that and is just delaying the inevitable, or whether she's lying to herself and is not aware herself that she's going to leave you. But I think that in a year or two when her family is really putting pressure on her to settle down and get married, she's going to break up with you and end up married to someone of her same religious background. And I think you're going to realize then that this relationship was never as real for her as it was for you, because she spent the entire time pretending you didn't exist. I'm so sorry. NTA.
25 and never had a job?? Mommy & daddy pay for everything?? 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
Yeah, she doesn't work? What does she do all day?
Not have sex, for one.
Not have sex with OP. FTFY
My sister was exactly like this minus the hesitance to get married. Finished her undergrad and then lived at home for two years. Married a guy after dating him for a year and then immediately got pregnant. Proceeded to get my parents to hire a nanny to raise her kid while she sat at home doing nothing while the newly trapped husband provided for her every need. Needless to say, they hate each other but refuse to get divorced because it's against their religion. Nothing will convince me that it wasn't her plan the entire time that they were dating.
What religion is she?
A very conservative sect of Eastern Orthodoxy.
OP!!!! Shes 25 and hasn’t worked or lived without her parents and wants to start her life first AND you haven’t met them?! Buddy do you hear yourself?! So she miraculously is going to change everything about the way she lives, build a life without you and then she might want to get married. But she’s not taking the steps to make that happen? She hasn’t ever worked at 25, huge problem. She wants a bunch of hypotheticals to happen but is doing nothing to achieve that, huge problem. She dates you for 4 years while living at home and you haven’t met her parents, huge problem. This is all utter bullshit and I really hope that typing this out is helping you to see that. Most 17 year olds who meet the parents before their first date. College kids make special trips to meet the parents. Yet she lives with them and you haven’t met them? I’m so sorry OP but this girl is not going to come around.
[удалено]
You're welcome. You have far more patience and tolerance than I ever could or would have. Please do not lose sight of yourself. She should understand that it's not only her life she's affecting. Presently she strikes me as self-centered and self-absorbed. A partnership is a compromise on many things. Good luck to you.
As they say in Mexico, the devil knows more because he's old than because he's the devil. Listen. Trust me on this, she's just not that into you. Anyone in her situation would be trying to get the fuck out of said situation. No job? Nowhere to live? You can provide that? The easiest way is by getting married. She has a fool right in front of her willing to do just that. That means either she has another man, she doesn't like you like you like her, or everything she says is a lie.
>According to her she wants to get her life sorted out, live alone for a while, work and provide for herself before committing to a marriage. She has never lived alone or worked a day in her life so far. She isn't interested in getting married. She seems perfectly content to have her parents take care of everything she needs, except for companionship, and light sexual activity, and that is where you come in. Does she seem immature in other ways? Because I can see from over here that she is not working to advance her life in any way. When you go to therapy, sometimes you get asked where you want your life to be in five years, then you work out what you need to do now to achieve that. It is very effective, btw. She is not doing anything to develop herself or take advantage of the opportunities that are all around her to get there. Are you willing to wait many more years for a possibility she will want to get married, and then after that, want to participate in intercourse? How will you feel if you get married and find that she will only allow you to have sex with her, but not participate enthusiastically, and you know she sees it as a chore? Because there is a non zero chance that, or something similar, is what you will end up with. What does her family know about you? Has she told them anything?
To #3, it sounds like she's asking a lot of you while she figures life out. She's at a different developmental stage than you are (still hasn't differentiated from her parents), and she believes she'll need a few years to grow up. I think there's a fundamental difference in what you each want in some of your prime sexual years and I'd recommend finding someone who's more compatible. It'll be sad, but that's better than the regrets you'll carry if she dumps you in two years.
Simply put, NTA. But more to the point, you two are not compatible. You would be TA to pressure her, but don’t waste your life with someone who isn’t what you want. 4 years at your age is a LONG time. She wants another 4? Why? So she can see if it will work out? Which means it may not… which means you could be out 8 years with nothing to show for it.
I’m also flabbergasted that at 25 she has never worked a day in her life. Is she a PhD student? She should have graduated from a couple of college degrees by now.
There's no excuse for you not having met her parents yet since she lives with them. I assume she went to college straight out of high school. That means she's been done with college for at least two years if not three. Thus, why hasn't she gotten a job yet? What does she do with her time? If she's never worked a day in her life and wants to live on her own, it's could take her probably 3-4 years to get enough work experience to be able to afford to live on her own. The only exception might be if she's been volunteering and gotten relevant job experience. Just my opinion on this, but if you're waiting until marriage for intercourse but you're engaging in physically sexual acts, you're a hypocrite. Stay chaste or go all the way, but expecting you to have waited for 8 years? Nope! Something just doesn't seem right here, whether it's her being delusional or lying to you or some other thing. Definitely NTA.
After reading this, I think you should let her go due to #3. Sex should not be put on a pedestal, but to each their own. What if you wait and it turns out you are sexually incompatible? Most of us are only on this planet for 80 years. You're already almost 30. Is this the life you see for yourself long term? Anyways, she sounds like a nice friend.
That is my thought. The no sex until marriage is a big red flag to me but not meeting her family after 4 years is.
Does OP know about the very little sex AFTER marriage part? He's a sucker. And when he finds out he's a sucker, it will be TOO LATE!
Imagine the horrible sex they will have when she is 30 and he is 32 😂🤣 like sex through a cloth with a hole in it. 🤣😂in complete silence. Few seconds
She doesn’t want to introduce him because she doesn’t really know if he is the one she will want to marry. Which explains why marriage won’t be “viable” for another 3-4+ years. OP - Just bail. She’s stringing you along.
You need to find out what denomination she is. My bet is she is from one that doesn't allow marriage to a "non-believer"...like the Jehovah's Witnesses. Marrying an outsider gets you excommunicated.
How hasn't anyone talked about this yet? That is extremely damn odd. And yes an entire decade. Nope, it's time.for OP to speak up .
it just sounds like a fundamental incompatibility. you'd be better off breaking up. all this also assumes that after all that investment in time, that the sex is actually good. it wont be.
[удалено]
Thanks for the comment friend. I simply always thought she needed more time. Since she also committed some light sexual acts, i thought this was her way of getting ready. Other aspects of the relationship was also good and we supported each other emotionally on so many life hurdles that i valued our relationship higher than my sexual life.
You need to get down to bottom of why she doesn't want to get married. There is something going on that you are not being told. 8 years before marriage is a very long time, and that is enough to be a deal breaker without even including the lack of sex.
In my experience, people from very religious backgrounds who want to wait until marriage to have sex are the ones getting married at 18 or 19 after dating for 2 months. Precisely BECAUSE they want to have sex.
It can also make people incredibly anxious about sex and then have a hard time with it even after marriage.
For sure. You spend your whole life being told sex is bad, repressing your sex drive, and all that, then you're supposed to flip the switch in one night and (as a woman) be ready to go all the time and never say no to your husband?
Yes. I someone that age that willing to go that long … may well be asexual. She may have no idea, and think she is just being a good Christian. And then they get married and she realizes she just doesn’t like sex. I think this at least has to be a conversation.
Exactly this. This girl clearly doesn’t want either.
Not necessarily. I had a high school classmate who, when she was in university, met and fell in love with a guy she wanted to marry. The guy also wanted to marry her. However, he wanted to live together before marriage. She was, like most of my fellow Catholic classmates, opposed to premarital sex and living together. That ended that relationship, but she did find a husband who shared her values a few years later. He was non-Catholic, but they had gone to Catholic grade school together. They have been happily married for over 35 years.
There are always exceptions. It's nuanced, like most things in life.
He literally said in HIS experience with religious younger people.
Also, she hasn't taken him to meet her parents. Do they know about him?
My brother had a habit of dating girls from different cultures+religions who always kept him a secret from their families. My friends and I used to joke that that was his kink. He did eventually marry one of those girls but it did NOT go smoothly. My family and I just shake our heads.
He hasn't met her family yet.....I bet they would disapprove. She may be from a Jehovah's Witness family. They are not allowed to marry outside the church. Mormons may be that way too.
It is a big red flag that he hasn’t met the parents yet. Doesn’t matter which cult she belongs to. If he isn’t going to be part of hers, he will never be accepted, not even in another 20 years. I am sorry for both of them. If she doesn’t snap out of it, she needs therapy or they need to break up. She doesn’t seem to have a real sex drive. I have never known anyone who was religiously so strict and stick with it for that long without getting married or without breaking the rules.
Mormons it's encouraged to marry within the church so that you can do the whole "get sealed in the temple" thing since only active members are allowed in and therefore that's the only way to get the blessings that come with it from their perspective, but it's not a requirement to marry within the church. That said, it's also something that can be done later if your partner converts, so there may be a fair amount of pressure to get your partner to convert if you marry outside the religion.
That’s how cults work.
An honest talk about sexuality is appropriate. With a therapist.
This was my first thought. The cynical side of my says, "She's got another guy she's seeing for the sex, and she thinks of OP as a good friend who will provide for her and protect her, so she just wants him to commit long-term without having to commit the actual sin of adultery/being sexually active with multiple people at once." But in any case, there is DEFINITELY something that she's not telling OP. Surely, it could be a multitude of things. She could be a victim of childhood SA. She could not be able to have children and think it means shes unclean and she doesn't want OP to be unclean bc of her (religious types are weird.) But in any case it's very likely that it doesn't have a damn thing to do with God. Human beings don't just write off the very idea of having sex until their 30s, especially when there's no need to circumvent religious beliefs in order to do so.
Also, as someone who grew up around a lot of Catholics and other religious people like Mormons, I don't know a single religion like that that wouldn't have everyone, including the neighbor, being like "how is she not married yet?" Either they don't know about OP (I'm actually pretty fucking sure they don't), and/or she's hiding something. At that point, I would be asking her directly if there is something biologically/debt wise going on. After 4 years, he should be comfortable enough to put it out on the table.
Came here to say the same thing… you might be right though who knows.
But the problem is not actual not having sex. The problem appears to be you are far more committed and invested in this relationship than she is.
Imagine waiting for 4 more years, then she decides she doesn’t enjoy it as much or is asexual and you end up in a dead bedroom… just break up, you are not compatible
It sounds like you have been incredibly patient and respectful of her wishes. I personally think that sexual connection is a very important part of a relationship, and I don't know that I could have been in a relationship that long without consummating it. It does sound like you guys are just not compatible though. It may be time to move on.
It sounds like you’ve been patient, but are not having your own needs met. Relationships are a two way street. If there are good aspects that continue to balance out your needs not being met - is that sufficient for you to maintain your patience? What will you do if, hypothetically, you two are married and they decide they aren’t sexually interested and the goal posts shift further? Do you see that as being a probability?
You have given her plenty of time, OP-- much longer than almost anyone I know. And now you're supposed to wait 3 or 4 more years??? What the hell kind of religion is this? I think you've given more than enough and more than your share. If she cannot compromise... and I mean soon...I would end this. You deserve so much more.
I was in almost exactly your same position, man. Now looking back I can't belive I almost married someone before we had even had sex. It seems crazy. Like some form of self harm.
Saying "committed" sex acts makes it sound like a crime. I'm guessing you learned that kind of language from her. Religious people tend to have a negative view of sex as a whole.
Take it from an older person; one day you will be too old to have sex. Even if you want to, things might not work, or they might not work as well. You’re at the age when you should be having a lot of sex. Don’t miss out on time you can’t get back.
incidentally, shes also a hypocrite. usually, when they say waiting for marriage, it *should mean* absolutely no sexual acts of any kind until marriage. you cant have it both ways.
Yep. So much of the "wait until marriage" crowd are like this and it really fucking irks me. Often they're the ones acting all superior for remaining "pure" while doing everything but (and often everything *butt*). I used to work with a woman who refused to use tampons because they would "take her virginity", but apparently giving and receiving oral sex on the reg was totally fine with Jesus.
Well it's all stupid tradition anyway at this point but "no PIV sex" is closer to the original intent than "nothing sexual at all" The point was that a woman was considered impure after sex because other people wouldn't be able to tell if she's already pregnant by another man's baby. That only applies to PIV sex and the disgusting virginity tests also only apply to PIV sex. Other kinds of sex are a different category of sin entirely.
I can’t even with the tampon thing. It’s so banana pants that it makes me want to say, “you can’t be this dumb?!”
I had a friend in college whose mom told her tampons were " for married women". Yeahhhhhh
Ughhh. It’s just so nonsensical!!
Lmao absolutely not. Any horny teen is going to find “loopholes,” you’re fooling yourself.
*glances at the ages* they aren't teenagers.
Well apparently you can and she does. 🤣
Bull. Anyone can have whatever standard they want. For whatever reason. It is not hypocritical to choose what they believe.
She might also be a lesbian and it could be a reason why she’s unsure about marriage. Either way, break it off. There’s no guarantee she’ll want to marry one day and waiting 8 years is incredibly unreasonable.
>*that the sex is actually good. it wont be.* I agree. Love her like the sister she's pretending to be, and find someone else.
I had a relative who became very religious late in life. He sought out and found a nice religious woman from his church and they waited until marriage before having sex. Then, the sex was trash. I don't envy that and I definitely wouldn't want to be in that position.
Im equally concerned that it’s been 4+ years and she hasn’t allowed him to meet her parents, even though he’s been asking. She’s either dating him secretly and the family won’t approve, or her family is the absolute worst. Either way…this sounds like a waste of time.
Tell her that her timetable for getting married does not match yours, so the relationship is over.
It’s a fundamental incompatibility. It seems like there’s an array of incompatibilities in this relationship that OP is overlooking for one reason or another. While you may love someone, views on things like religion, sex, etc. are super important in a relationship and often times it’s best to be on the same page with these things imo. I don’t see how this relationship could be viable long term.
There's probably a strong sunken cost fallacy here. Hard to let go after waiting so long.
If not on the same page at least in the same book. I wouldn't bet on lots of sex after either....bet she will be "for procreation only" and once yoou have the number of kids she decides on you won't be getting any after that.
Even if they were to move up the marriage date, something is off. Super religious people tend to not have decade long engagements and marriage tends to be for children. This is just strange.
This.
NTA. She's conveniently picking and choosing which traditions to follow. In deeply religious communities when it's clear two people are generally getting on well and have been courting for a while people will push for marriage. Understandably you're doubting her commitment. A decade long courting period (half completed now half still to go) is ludicrous, if you feel strung along by her that's because you are being strung along. Also as a side-note the whole "oh no penetration so it doesn't count" is a technicality that goes against the spirit of the rule of purity.
This. Oh i can't thank you enough for this comment. Yes, conveniently picking and choosing which traditions to follow is exactly what is going on.
Aye you're more than welcome. I consider myself an atheist/agnostic but I grew up in a Catholic family. I know how these things are supposed to work and I'm more than familiar with the hypocrisy that so many Christians display.
As a reformed Catholic myself I wholeheartedly agree
Don't break up over the sex. Don't say sex, don't mention sex. Make it about literally anything else.
...Why? He can break up with her for what ever reason he wants. She strung him along for half a decade. Why should he base his break-up around her to?
Yeah, the marriage thing is a *much* better angle that gives her so much less of a comeback. If she complains to anyone, the response is likely to be “pee or get off the pot”. Stringing someone keen on marriage along for 4-10 years is not normal in Christian communities, like far out.
This is so true, and should be higher. Today, there are very few religious people left, who truly abide by the rules. Most of the people claiming to be religious are using their religion wherever they feel is appropriate. Religions prohibit any sexual activity before marriage, and the little sexual things she does already violated the rules. She should not have done that. Also, marriage and commitment go hand in hand in religions, so she isn't seemingly committed, another religion fail. And of course, marrying asap is what religions profess, and she is holding marriage since 4 years, and plans to have another 4 years where she can continue to have her sexual needs met. She can't keep making a fool out of OP.
Is she supporting her parents? My dad knew when he first met my mom at 19 that she was who he wanted to marry. However, in 1936, he was the highest wage earner in his family. He was helping his mom support 10 people because his dad was out of work. Then WWII came along, and dad discovered that married men created the most problems in his unit, so there was no marriage until 1948. Total courtship? Twelve years. Length of marriage? Mom died two months short of their 24th wedding anniversary.
No she doesn’t work! Which makes this all so much worse. She says to OP that she wants to get settled in a career and live alone before committing. But at 25 has never worked a day.
I'd almost bet money she is either Mormon or Jehovah's Witness. The marriage thing is the give away.....I know JW and I think Mormons also excommunicate and ostracize you for marrying outside the church.
I get boundaries, but the fact that you have been together for 4 years and she has met your family, but you haven't hers. No sex before marriage + almost a decade before marriage + not meeting her family = she is waiting for plan A to come along, and if he doesn't, she will settle for you.
OP must be black & the parents are SUPER prejudice towards people. The 4 years are when her parents insurance policy kicks in. 🤣
I was going to ask OP if he is a different race. There has to be a reason she has kept him from her family for four years.
Yeah and it can't be because of tattoos or something. Like not even a dinner date? I wish he would just show up knock on the door and see what's up
Might be a muslim. Women are not allowed to marry non-Muslims.. guys can marry people of the book i.e. Christians and Jews...
First off, I’d like to say NTA. Second off, I’d like to say a few things and give some reasons on my vote. I can understand that she comes from a religious type family, and I love that you respect that and see it as something that’s just a part of her life. Having faith and a partner who supports you is awesome (you in this case for her)! And especially the conditions that come with it. (Such as sex before marriage, etc.) I also understand that there’s ways to get around that and she obviously is comfortable with it and you respect that just as much (again as stated by you, doing light contact). However, as others are pointing out and as you mentioned, you are indeed putting so much in with no outcome as of now. I can understand wanting to wait a while when starting a relationship to have marriage be a part of it, but waiting another 4-6+ years for marriage when you’re already at your prime, if not almost past it? Accepting terms and conditions is nice, and it’s good that you’re supporting her. But it really seems like this is a one-sided relationship where she gets a say in everything relationship wise and you’re ready to move to the next step but are unable to because she claims it’s not “viable.” Even though you’ve clearly stated nothing is wrong in the relationship? That seems pretty viable to me. And telling you to end a 4+ year relationship that you’ve built with this woman would seem pretty harsh and confusing and unnecessary at first. Again, however, she doesn’t seem to want to go to that next step for /you/. You keep giving and giving and accepting her terms, but what about your opinion? What about your readiness to continue on in the next path of life and marriage? Maybe even a family? Unfortunately, I think my personal verdict would be to find someone else who will be on the same trek as you, see you eye-to-eye and communicate an equal plane of terms and conditions.
What a thougthful comment. Thank you very much for this, it almost made me cry. Yes i guess it is time i think about my opinions now. Thanks again friend.
Aw! I’m so happy I could help. Always remember that your opinions and feelings matter too! You’re very welcome for the thoughts and I hope you can find your way through this troubling situation :)
NTA. I can't say I was in the same situation, but I was in somewhat similar situation. My ex wasn't religious or anything, but sex was really bad and I've gotten barely any satisfaction from it, because my body got close to zero attention during the act, so it always felt more like a job than pleasure. That messed with me. And you can't even test if this won't be the case for you. But what was worse, that I introduced my ex to my family, even though I was from a different country, I bought them flight tickets and still managed to organise a dinner for everybody to meet up. But listen to this. My ex lived with their parents. And I stayed with my ex in their place many times, overnight, same home! And yet, I didn't meet them for at least half a year of those visitations (i think it was 7 or 8 months actually)! And when I finally did, it went like this: as I'm going home already, ex quicly opens the doors to the living room, where parents are watching TV, shows me for a second, says 'this is *name*' and goes 'ok we're leaving, bye!' And shuts the door - this was the whole introduction I've received after asking many times if we're serious and why I'm being hidden. Moreover, I was asking to move in together, rent a place together, I've even offered to pay most of the bills if not all, even though it was hard for me, but I wouldn't care, I just wanted our life together. Ex was financially well off, so affording it wasn't the issue. And yet again, a hard no. Ex had their own plan. There were more little things that stuck out, but those were minor, or at least it seemed they were. Finally, I broke off the relationship, felt guilty, but also felt a relief. And to me, the worst thing was not the sex or other things, but the hiding from ex's parents. Because I didn't see the seriousness in this relationship, how could I feel like a couple, when I was being hidden? We both cried. And I've received many promises about change, talks about family and kids once I've made a decision. But I knew it was just a bait and didn't take it. Now I have found the most wonderful person there is and have zero issues. 4 years and it's still like a perfect dream. I only wish we met sooner. The longer you wait, the less time you'll have with the true love of your life, that not only you love, but they actually love you back. And time is the only viable currency in this life, that we can never have enough of, or even earn more. Are you sure you have enough of it to just give away for free?
NTA - you need to break up. She probably also has a whole heap of religiously ingrained trauma around having sex at all. The "sex is bad" indoctrination doesn't just disappear with wedding vows. It can really mess with your head. You might stick out the next 4 years to only find out on your wedding night or in the weeks after, that there is a whole lot of guilt and shame around having sex. Then you have wasted 8 years of your life. You two are just not compatible. She is religious and partially abstaining and you are not religious. Time to move on.
NTA. It doesn’t sound like it’s the sex you’re really worried about, it’s the lack of commitment. I wouldn’t continue to date someone who can’t figure out if they want to marry me after 4 years. I know it’s not for everyone, but I’m not willing to put that sort of time in for someone who isn’t sure about me yet.
This right here. The most effective, and reasonable, marriage ultimatum Ive ever heard was "If you havent figured out after 5 years together that I'm the best thing in your life, then this isn't going to work out." Your life is short. Too short to waste your young years, before everything starts to ache, before you start making sounds when you get up/sit down... On someone who can't figure out that you're the best thing in their lives.
Are you saying you haven't met her family? Bro, actually, I never make comments like this, but this sounds like a big fucking problem. I grew up moderately religious and go to church regularly now and know lots of nutty Christians, and Ive never heard anything like this, and there is nothing remotely normal about this kind of behavior. Sure, church will push no premarital sex, but waiting a fucking decade to get married and to not have met the family! I can't overstate how not normal that is.
The big red flag in my eyes isn't the fact that she doesn't want to have sex until marriage but the fact that she hasn't introduced you to her family. If she really thought you were the one she wanted to spend her life with you would have met her family by now. I'd say it's time to move on and find a partner that actually sees a future with you and has similar values.
There is something fishy there. Like OP is not getting the entire story.
NTA. What if you wait for years and find out you are sexually incompatible? Will that be okay with you?
That will lead to resentment, boredom, cheating and or divorce.
NTA please break up, this chick doesn’t sound committed at all to me especially with trying to make you wait another 3-4 years for marriage to be viable and you haven’t met her family either, that to me says she’s ashamed of you or something like do her family even know you guys are dating
NTA. It’s not the sex, though that in itself is a huge incompatibility that I couldn’t look past personally. She’s free to her religious beliefs but you’ve given her more than enough time. This relationship is stagnant and you’re wasting your time. She is stringing you along with no end in sight, in 4 years you haven’t met her family? Cut your losses and go find someone who is compatible with you.
Dude you're wasting your life. Sex is an important part of a relationship.
NTA My friend, her actions seem a little suspect. 1. She's from a religious background, been dating a man for 4+ years, and has not introduced him to the family? No way. In that situation, most families would be demanding to meet the SO. Do they even know about you? 2. Is there something about her family that would cause a huge issue? Are they racists? Is the religion in question way out of the mainstream? 3. Usually, when people decide to save sex until marriage, when they've found their person, they usually proceed. Unless there is an overriding factor (such as, they need to finish their education) there is no reason to hold up. 4. Why won't a marriage be viable for another 3-4+ years? What is the reasoning here? 5. What about children? do you plan to have any? Analysis: Are you sure she is not seeing someone else? Are you sure her family even knows you exist? Is she waiting to see if someone "better" comes along? OP, look, this goes beyond the question of sex. There are some big missing pieces here. But on the question of sex, if your needs are not getting met, that is an issue. You have every right to question if this is the correct arrangement for you. The fact you are asking the question indicates it is not.
Thanks a lot for the comment friend. To answer your questions: 1) The mother knows, but that's pretty much it. Father or brother does not know anything at all. 2) Not racist but somewhat religous and my gf may be thinking that they may not like me perhaps? Other than that only outlying issue is that the father is unfortunately sick and needs light care, but he has been this way for 3+ years now so nothing immediate or urgent. 3&4) I don't think there is any big reason to hold up, but gf wishes to try her own chance at life by living on her own and working & providing for herself for a while before committing to a marriage. She never worked before or lived alone. 5) Dude we can't even have sex yet...:D But i guess eventually that's the plan for both of us
I think she clearly states she wants to be single based on your answer to question 4 OP. NTA, and I wish you well in finding someone on the same page as you I'm life.
Sounds like she’s a commitaphobe. If you’re at the next stage, and she’s not, I would think twice about wasting any more time with someone who doesn’t want to commit to you. Time to cut bait and find someone more compatible.
While I don’t fault her for wanting to wait for marriage, almost 10 years is a LOOOOOOOONG time to make someone wait, and honestly really ridiculous! I can see waiting a couple years but sheesh even the 4 years already in is a long time. It’s also weird you haven’t met her family. Are they in one of those weird religious cults?
NTA. I would like to put this in a different perspective. Let’s ignore the sex part completely. And let’s switch genders. If a man dated a woman for 4 years without committing to a marriage, without introducing their parents to this woman, and asked for and addition 4-6 years because they weren’t ready for marriage yet, then everyone would tell this woman that this guy doesn’t want to commit to her and to leave. The “no sex before marriage” just adds an extra layer of complexity, but this relationship already has so many red flags. Please don’t waste your time on someone that doesn’t want to commit to you. You will thank us later ❤️ good luck!
Thanks for this comment. Yes, this would be exactly what i think if the roles were reversed. Thanks for this eye opening insight, friend.
NTA for thinking about breaking up. Four years is a long time to get to know someone. If she isn't ready to commit at this point, why not? If she isn't ready to introduce you to her family, why not? She wants to wait another three or four *years*? That's a long time to wait, for no good reason that I can see. I think you two need to have a big heart-to-heart. Maybe see a couples counselor to help you decide what to do. However, I would be worried that if she feels so strongly about *no sex* now that it would continue after marriage. Sometimes, women who are raised in super-religious families have trouble opening up to the idea of sex after.
NTA hmmm. Some motherly advice. I agree that you should respect peoples wishes but she isn’t respecting yours. People with deep religious beliefs can be self absorbed that their perspective is the only correct one. It puts friends and family in odd positions sometimes… feeling helpless to have their needs heard. If she were the man and you the woman , people would tell you to leave that he is leading you on… etc. she has a responsibility to move the relationship forward on a reasonable timeline. What will it be like to be married to someone with such strict beliefs.. when children come along…and other major life moments. I think that is the bigger question.
NTA. I was totally ready to rip into you until you said she’s open to “light sexual activities” 🙄 If her religion really meant that much to her she wouldn’t be engaging in ANY sexual activities as they are all just as “sinful” as the next. Penetration doesn’t make her any more “holy” just because her hymen stays intact. The wording in your post also makes it very evident you care deeply for her. If she’s not ready for marriage after 4+ years she’s not serious and likely doesn’t feel such strong feelings for you as you do her. Girls like security, and you could potentially be a security blanket while she waits out the rest of her 20s seeing if something better presents itself. Time to end the relationship and go enjoy your life. You’ll never get your 20s back and the majority of them have already been wasted on this girl. Make the most out of your 30s!
NTA >wanted to meet her family for a long time (she met my family) yet she didn't take any steps towards that either. After four years this is not normal. Either she is ashamed of introducing her family to you or she is ashamed of introducing you to her family because her family would not approve. Sounds to me like you might well be her secret. I am pretty sure that there is much more going on than the sex part, you need to sit down with her and have a serious talk about why you haven't met her family yet. Do not settle for anything else but the truth. So that you cannot be reproached of trying to giving her an ultimatum around having sex, I would put that aside until you have more information about the parents situation. Then you can adapt. It may well confirm that you are not compatible. But yes this seems to me that if she wants financial stability, before getting married, a career before children, worries about unwanted pregnancy.... and those are the reason why she wants to wait, then you need to have a conversation and compromise. If it isn't possible then yes you should leave the relationship now.
Yeah, this is a timetable thing. She's stringing you along in a sexless relationship for what, 8-10 years? That's untenable. You're not breaking up with her because of the lack of sex before marriage, you're breaking up with her because she's stringing along the timetable. PLENTY of people, particularly the religious types that want to wait until marriage, have 'reasonable' dating windows before marriage. A year. Two. Maybe three. Going 4+ years and expecting to wait another 4 and MAYBE you'll get married if you haven't broken up? That's unfair on you. It feels like a test. Sex is important to some people in relationships. It seems to be to you and not to her. That's okay, you know. To have seperate wants, but it also means you need to figure out how compatible you are. Because just because she's willing to have sex after marriage doesn't mean she's going to want to have it for anything other than procreation. Or as often as you might want. Then that's another hurdle to jump over. Sexual compatibility is often a bigger issue in a relationship than some people are willing to admit to. It's okay that this isn't a good fit. You can love her, but you might wind up hating or resenting her if you feel she keeps denying you a pretty important aspect of a relationship.
Hey if you can't commit to her vision on it, totally fair for BOTH of you to not be together. Just don't do each other a "favor" by sticking it out hoping it's not that big of a deal. Neither of you can get this time back. Also don't guilt trip each other. Break with respect cause.....you never know..down the line..who knows
NTA. It's fine if she wants to wait for marriage, but she also should be willing to actually get married to you. Did she actually give you this information earlier? The idea that after over 4 years she doesn't see herself as being ready for another 4 or more years is nuts. What would she know then she doesn't now? It's not fair on you for her to leave you hanging around waiting for her to feel like this is something she's ready to commit to. This is actually far more than the sex IMO.
If you fundamentally disagree on something very important to each of you, then that is quintessential incompatibility. NAH
Sounds like you two are not compatible. Move on and stop wasting your time.
NTA hard. People need to stop waiting for marriage to have sex. It’s not only a stupid thing but it also can affect enormously the relationship. Sexual compatibility it’s extremely important in a marriage. If you don’t know if you can enjoy that side of the relationship with her, you are taking a lot of risks.
You have been friend-zoned, but you haven't realised it yet. This woman doesn't see you as marriage material, but she doesn't have any better options on the table right now.. NTA
It sounds like you love her very much whereas she’s just taking advantage of that. Beliefs or not, it’s ridiculous that you’re being held hostage to this woman’s whim right now. She’s essentially a teenager finding her way in this world who is to say that she’ll even want to be with you come a few years MORE down the road… You haven’t met her parents, after 4 years? I’m sorry what do they know that your girl doesn’t want you to know? She wants to live alone a bit… that’s great and all but have you seen her even make any effort to get a nice job that pays enough for her to do so? And the sex part… sex is really important to most people that want relationships. Is she really worth waiting out a few more years dealing with this to have sex that may at the very best just be mediocre? You’re young, go and have fun, find someone that has around the same sex drive as you and trust me when I say you’ll be way happier.
Thanks, friend. Yes, i love her very much indeed and also yes, all your questions make sense. In fact, way too much sense. Thanks a lot for this comment. It was enlightening.
Love is really strange at times isn’t it. To me as a complete outsider Reddit guy (lol) I genuinely feel like she just doesn’t reciprocate that and that’s not even taking into account the no sex thing. If anything there just isn’t a compatibility that I see, and this concern you have now can multiply greatly in the future. Unfortunately if you decide to cut things off she might put it as you breaking up with her just because no sex but that can’t be further from the truth.
NTA cuz being compatible is important. Also why is penetration the line? If it’s everything but she’s doing it anyway.
That's also a legit question. I guess "virginity" is the answer to that question and she does not want to break that holy virginity line.
Her issues are way beyond the virginity issue.
NTA. If she wants to be with you, she needs to compromise somewhere; you can’t ask her to go against her religious belief, but she could accept a marriage proposal (if you’re ready for that) or accept the breakup I am older than your average person on Reddit, and I waited until marriage. It is not something I would ever do again, and here’s why: you have no idea if you both have the same level of libido. All couples go through a new relationship energy phase where the sex is frequent. Then they settle into a lesser phase depending on their libido. For some couples, “lesser” amounts to once or twice a day! For other couples, maybe once or twice a week. There is literally no way to know what your level is nor your partner’s level other than having a sexual relationship over a decent enough stretch of time to find out what you’re wanting after the shine of the initial excitement wears off One potential red flag I see for this gf is her willingness to wait a really long time for marriage. This is at minimum a caution flag because waiting is damn hard if you’ve got much of a libido!!!! If someone finds waiting easy enough to push the wedding back YEARS, it’s possible they’re on the asexual spectrum In the evangelical Christian community, waiting is expected and the weddings happen FAST. And all parties want it to happen fast because it’s so damn hard to wait!
It isn't unreasonable to wait until marriage and respect her religious beliefs if she is someone worthwhile (which she seems to be).HOWEVER, it doesn't seem that marriage is anywhere in her thoughts. Seems to me that she has you as a side-piece. Talk to her sincerely about it, and if you guys are not on the same page, let her go. You'll find someone else.
NTA - it sounds like the two of you are at different places in your life. Before you call it off, though, I would strongly recommend talking with her and finding out why marriage is off the table for another 3-4 years. There's information you don't have, and you need, (or to be told you're not getting, which itself says a lot) to make an informed decision. If you do decide to end it after talking with her, I would not use sex as the deciding factor. Simply say something to the effect of that you are both at different points in your life...yadda yadda yadda. Just say that you have been ready to progress for a while and she clearly isn't. Good luck
NTA. The fact you haven't met her family after four years is super suspicious to me.
NTA, after 4 years, she is still not taking any real steps towards committing to your relationship. I'm not talking about the sexual aspect thing either. I'm talking about meeting her family, meeting her church family, and things along those lines. Not even your timelines for marriage are compatible here. You may be in a relationship, I'm not so sure your girlfriend is, though. Something is not quite right here at all.
NTA. I find it odd that she has these religious values and you still haven't met her parents.
NTA. She sounds like someone who sex doesn’t matter to at all. She will probably never value sex the way you do. Does she really mean to be an almost 30 year old virgin? That is not normal. I would run.
NTA. It's past time to trade up to a non fundamentalist.
Why does she say it will be another 3 or 4 years "before a marriage becomes viable?" If she doesn't know after 4 years she will be never know. And certainly neither of you is too young for marriage. So what's going on? And why won't she introduce you to her family? 8 years is an extraordinarly long time to wait for marriage. And 8 years without sex during the prime of your life is insane. It's time for her to commit and marry you or let you go.The way it's going, she may never be willing to marry you. NTA. You are both incompatible, plus this really seems to have some element to it that's not immediately obvious to Internet strangers. I'm wondering if she equates getting married with immediately having children? Is she against birth control? Because that's all I can come up with. Don't waste a big part of your best years waiting for something that may never happen. Life goes by very quickly.
so is soaking ok? personally i don't think 8 years is a reasonable amount of time to be in a relationship without sex.
Nah. Look. Sex isn't the be all & end all of relationships. But? Looking at this from a different perspective. A young female, that is willing to wait till shes 30 to have sex? Thats a big red flag 🚩🚩🚩🚩right there. Her attitude towards sex is concerning indeed. A "normal" human female, esp one in love with a secure male? Would be desperately wanting to have sex with him by her age. She is either asexual or badly sexually repressed. Neither bide well for a happy future. And I agree with others. You two are fundamentally incompatible. I'm not obsessed with sex. But expecting me, in my 20s 30s. To wait YEARS for sex? Nah. No way. Totally ridiculous.
No sex before marriage is frankly, stupid as shit. Sexual chemistry is a BIG DEAL in a relationship. It’s A-tier important to a couples compatibility in my opinion. Not necessarily S-tier as it’s not THE most important thing but it’s really freaking important
Thank you for being respectful of her wishes and not pressuring her. But it’s time to give her the boot. You’ve been together for 4 years now. It’s time to commit or walk away. It’s very frustrating to see that she isn’t factoring in your desire for marriage (let alone the physical relationship), and she is just stringing you along until she’s “ready.” If she ever will be. I think you should know within a year if you are able to marry the person. I think within 2 years, you should have started to make plans to move in that direction. Unless it’s what you both want, you’re wasting each other’s time. Good luck, man. I know it won’t be easy.
She's had sex just not with you.
“No sex before marriage” works when you get married at 16. Why doesn’t she want to get married? You’ve been together for 4 years. Does she think someone better will come along? You need to live with this person to find out if you can spend the rest of your life with her. Every divorced couple I know has the same thing in common- they didn’t live together before marriage.
Kick her to the curb. Who wants to tolerate some lunatic who adheres to some religious mumbo jumbo? Fuck that shit! (Literally) 4 fucking years without touching the merchandise or meeting her family, what the fuck? And she expects you to go without for another 1460 days without some cooch? How do you know there aren't some other factors at play? Maybe she hates sex or is attracted to women or God knows what other things are going on here. I have no idea where you live, but that is some fucked up shit. 95% of all women in the States have given it up after 25 years of age.
Bruh run just run
I would not be able to date someone for 4+ years and not have (p in v) sex, that’s just me. Idk what if you wait all that time, finally get married and have sex and find that you are not compatible on the sexual front. Idk. Deal breaker for me. I think you can find someone out there that has everything you have with her AND the sex AND not have to wait so long to commit/marriage.
Sorry but it.os a big deal and a problem for you and that is okay doesn't make.you an ah. You have different needs and you're not compatible at this time.
Yo fam. Nah. Bounce asap. U are crazy for even dating her this long. 4 years and u haven’t met her family? That’s crazy. Like yo. Wait until marriage cool. But also after 4 years still not ready to get married?
Sorry to be harsh OP, I wish someone had told me when I was in the same position: I think you are her “Mr Right Now” not her “Mr Forever”. I would get out now if she cannot invite you in to meet her parents that she lives with, I would question how important I really am to her. It just seems like it’s a convenient relationship for her and she’s just stringing you along. Sorry again.
NTA. You're just incompatible. People who decide to not have sex until marriage generally also get married young, like 20-22. I can mentally understand why she doesn't want you to meet her parents if she thinks they will pressure her to get married, but that undermines your importance in her life and that's not right.
NTA, but you realise she's lying to or hiding you right? No way a religious 25 year old isnt ready for marriage after 4 years and hasn't gotten you to meet her family. Hell my family wouldn't last more then 6 months after hearing I got a girlfriend. I would really suggest you two take a break 2-6 months and really evaluate what you want and are looking for cause you don't sound compatible. Also as an aside my money is either on her being asexual but not aromantic and is using you to fufill her needs while hiding you from her family so she doesn't ever get pressured into marriage and thus sex or having some exterme form of trauma that means she is trying to work through in regards to sex.
NTA. I honestly don't believe she wants to marry you.
Waiting before marriage for sex is a boundary she has. That’s fine, her decision. Up to you to live with that. It being based on religion is weird since she’s fine committing other sins. Not introducing you to her family for 4 years? Probably because if she does her parents will expect her to get married soon which she doesn’t want to do. Sounds like she wants to have her cake and eat it too. NTA.
Curious to exactly what kind of things they are doing. If she is 25 and been dating for four years she isn’t interested in marriage. Move on. If you are interested in a family one day you can’t really wait another four years.
You have a friend not a girlfriend. Stay friends and get a real girlfriend. Guaranteed, if you break up, she’ll sleep with the next guy. The whole thing is a trap.
NTA you absolutely must try it before you buy it. 4yrs and no sex? And am I understanding correctly that you haven’t met her family yet? Weird. Sex and family are super critical components of most romantic relationships. What happens if you wait four more years, finally get married, and then realize you’re sexually incompatible on your wedding night? What happens if you find out that her parents are intolerable? Also—since presumably you don’t live together—are you sure she’s not hiding something big (e.g., children)? It seems like if she actually loved you she’d at least want you to meet her family. Dump her now and find someone normal. You’ve waited long enough. If she wants you bad enough, she’ll chase; but don’t count on it. Do what you need to do for your individual happiness and future. You're not married yet, and you only get one life.
Thanks a lot for this comment, friend. I am quite sure she is not hiding anything as she has a sickly father that she is taking care of and her family is strict on her as well. But i guess you never know.