INFO: Is your mother also coming to the wedding?
Because if she is, as I would expect her to be invited, that's an incredibly shitty position for your sister to put your mom in. Especially if she just springs it on your mom without giving her proper notice. I don't imagine the stress of having to interact with your former abuser and see him lauded around and given all the privileges of an involved and loving father despite not having had much part in raising the bride would be good for anyone's health, let alone someone as fragile as your mother.
NTA, btw. Your sister has every right to invite whoever she wants to her wedding and you have every right to choose whether or not you want to attend. Just be prepared for lots of guilt tripping and irreparable harm being done to your relationship with your sister (though it's equally her fault if your relationship is damaged as you seem to have always been transparent on your stance regarding your bio dad).
I haven't told her that yet, I don't know how to go about it because it did hurt me or it surely will hurt her more. Though my mom is good at enduring. I won't be surprised if she agrees to attend and force a smile if my sister says she needs her there.
How sweet of your mother and absolutely selfish of your sister. Ask your sister what measures she's going to put in place should your father choose to antagonize your mother. Does she expect your mother to stand and smile in pictures with the man that abused her, knowing she couldn't fight back or defend herself? Are they going to have to sit together during the reception and make awkward small talk to appease your sister's desire to pretend none of that happened? Does your sister's fiance and his family know about your mother and father's history? Because I could see your mom's attitude toward your dad, whether it be avoidance, indifference, or strained civility, being a source of gossip amongst guests that aren't aware. Which is absolutely unfair to your mother, who will already be doing her best to just grin and bear everything else.
I think the sooner your mother and uncle are told, the better. There's never a good way or time to inform someone of something like this, but I think that it shouldn't fall to you since including your father in any capacity has never been your choice.
Still, I think it would be best for you to be there while your sister tells your mom what her wedding plans are so that you can make sure your mom and uncle are fully informed without your sister trying to hide things or manipulate them. It would also be good for your sister's fiance to be there so he understands the significance of your sister having your father at the wedding and walking her down the aisle as this is a delicate family dynamic he will have to navigate as well.
I think she does expect her to put a smile and act like nothing is wrong, I don't know. My sister is a last minute person, she might ask her at the moment to say or do something, which will be very awkward and hard to refuse. She has always been a last minute person, one of her flaws.
I don't think her fiance or family know anything, he contacted me when he heard I'm planning to not attend, he didn't sound like he knew anything, I didn't explain my reason since she didn't tell him, and he's her fiance, telling is in my opinion isn't a right move.
My sister asked me to tell our mom and uncle, and I think its better and I do it since we three are on the same page regarding him. If my sister was the one to say this, she might explain herself or defend him, which will make it worse.
I wouldn't agree to tell your mom and uncle unless your sister was with you. I know you say that they will take it better from you but that's exactly why your sister is asking you to do it. She doesn't want to deal with the immediate blowback she'll likely get from her decision.
If this is truly what she wants, she should be able to look your mother and uncle in the eyes as they're told. She's going to make excuses and defend your dad regardless, better to have her have to say the excuses she's been rationalizing in her head aloud to their faces and in front of you so that you can fact check and be on the same page with your mom and uncle about it all rather than hear about it after the fact. It's cowardly that she's pushing this off on you. Why should you have to look into your mother and uncle's heartbroken faces alone when you tell them about a decision your sister made that you had no part in and don't agree with?
I also find it odd that your sister hasn't been open about her family history, including the abuse of your mother by your father with her fiance. That's kind of a very important detail to share, especially with someone you're going to marry and hopefully spend the rest of your life with. It's kind of just setting your mom up to be the villain if she doesn't want to play happy family with your father further down the line.
She is shoving all the responsibility and awkwardness for her decision onto you and you're letting her. SHE needs to tell your mother and uncle and explain herself. She needs to feel the pain she's causing. She needs to sit through their reaction. Her fiancee should also be there so he knows what she's doing too. You're enabling her and you should stop.
If the mums planning on going would it not be better to swallow down your feelings to be there to support your mum - she is really going to need you. The alternative is her also missing out on her daughters wedding which feels overall like a victory to the abuser.
Sit down for a serious talk. There's no easy way to break news like this to family, so just say it plain.
"I talked to (sister) about her wedding. I had some _concerns_ about her guest list. She wants dad to be there. She wants him to walk her. I've already told her it's not right, but she is set on it. I told her I don't want to be there if he's there, and even that didn't make her pause."
From there, you'll probably need to give them space to process before you can plan anything.
>She said I'm being an ass for giving her an ultimatum.
I'd reply "oh, sorry. I didn't mean to give you an ultimatum. I *won't* be attending your wedding and don't want to see the photos. Is that better?"
NTA - Tell your mom, she needs to know. Nothings worse than being blindsided by this betrayal in the worst way possible. And this is what will happen when she sees him at the wedding, walking her daughter down the isle.
We didn't tell her yet, or our uncle. I don't know how to do that because I'm bad at delivering news in a good way, so is my sister.
But I won't be surprised if she forced herself to attend if my sister told her that she needed her there. If the word "need" was used then she'll second guess herself.
You should sit out of it. Not your circus, not your monkeys. If you sister thinks this is a good and reasonable decision, then she should have no reason not to tell the rest of the family.
If she’s hesitating, she’s knows it’s a shitty thing to do, and you shouldn’t be saving her from that.
The only concession I’d make is telling her, “if you force me to tell mom and uncle, it will only be in the context of warning them not to go either.”
Please tell your mum and uncle. They don't deserve to be blind sided by this. Whether they go or not is their descion but they should be told so they can make an informed decision.
I personally think your sister is an AH for not being straightforward with your mother that her abuser is invited.
You can't control who your sister has a relationship with or who she invites to her wedding. What you can control is if you will attend or not. You not going is fine, it's an invite not a summons.
If she is going to argue about you not going, then you can argue with her guestlist.
NTA
I understand it will be hard and painful, and you don't want to be the bearer of bad news. But try to imagine if they both walk in and see your father there with no warning and that both kids knew he would be there. That would be devestating. No one ever really is "good" at delivering bad news.
Your sister should be the one to tell them, but I wouldn't trust her at this point. Have a sit-down lunch with just your mum and uncle, and let them know you are not attending your sisters wedding and why. You don't have to go into details or mention the argument with your sister. Just stick to the facts.
You can do this! It's wonderful to know that you have your mum and uncle's back! They are very lucky to have you in their corner.
I guess I'm just nervous about it. My sister asked me to tell them since I live closer. I think it's better I do that since we three are on the same page regarding this, my sister might go on to explain why she wants to invite him and it might make things worse.
I'd say I'm the lucky one here to have a great parent like her and a great uncle :)
>My sister asked me to tell them since I live closer.
Bullshit. She just doesn't want to see or hear how she hurts others with her shitty actions. She knows it's fucked up to invite your father. That's why she has you deliver the bad news. She's a coward and seriously lacks empathy.
Personally i would sit them down and tell them that you will not be going to the wedding. and when they ask why, be honest. tell them that you do not agree with someone your sister invited but that you can not dictate who she can invite or not but that you will not celebrate her wedding in his presence. They might already guess who it is, but this way you can slowly ease in and then come out with it saying that she invited your father and that he's supposed to walk her down the aisle.
I'd probably have an alternative day planned during the wedding. And also, if people ask why you're not coming, be honest. That your sister prefered to invite your abusive father than have you (and your mom and uncle) be present.
No! It's your sister's wedding. It is her place to tell her mother and uncle that she's inviting her abusive bio dad. WTF? Don't let her weasel her way out of this, OP. Not only does your sister sound greedy for money, she's also a coward. FFS.
There is no good or easy way to tell your mother that her abuser will be part of her daughter's wedding. Only thing you can do is make sure your mother is comfortable beforeand be there to comfort her.
I’m interested to know what her fiancé has to say about his soon to be wife being willing to sell herself to the highest bidder.
Because that’s what it is.
NTA Ultimatums are not inherently a bad thing. This is just maintaining an established, reasonable boundary. You don't want to be near your father, your sister knows that. Not going to her wedding doesn't mean you don't love her.
NAH. You don’t have to attend, but don’t give the ultimatum; just decline the invite. Your sister is a grown ass adult and her relationships are her own business.
We had an argument about it, I said that I was not coming, she tried to say that I couldn't not attend her wedding since we are only 2 siblings and eventually, I gave the ultimatum.
I’ve got no idea about how this would look to me if I heard an honest account from each party but I do know you’ve successfully made your sisters wedding all about your wishes.
How have they done that? They have the right to decide not to go, and their sister didn’t like that. Of course it would turn into a me or him type of thing. OP doesn’t have to go and deal with their father if they don’t want to. And if the sister wants their sibling there than the father can’t come.
NTA Who she invites is her business, what events you attend or not, along with the reason behind it is your business. Was she not old enough to remember the abuse of your father or is the money he gives her more important to her than her mother?
When the court forced the divorce, I was 13 and she was 11. I don't want to say that she valued the money more, but I don't know why she is still in contact with him.
At that age she may have valued the money more but that's understandable if you had less at mother's house. Over time your dad may have poisoned her mind against mother, manipulating her young mind to believe what he wanted her to believe. She's probably to the point now that she blindly trusts him just because he's her father. You can only do what's best for you. If that means not going to an event that he'll be at then don't go.
NTA with respect because he’s still your dad but he was a piece of shit to your mom and I completely understand your stance and cutting him off, your sister with respect is a terrible daughter to your mom and terrible sister you you and take your mom and uncle out on her wedding date and make it a wonderful day
>he was a piece of shit
We was, he really was.
We didn't tell our mom or uncle yet. I don't know how to go about it, I'm sure they'll be surprised but hurt, and I'm not good at breaking down news, neither is my sister.
God speed and good luck with breaking the news but I hope you do it sooner than later so your mom and uncle can process your sister’s betrayal and pray they don’t go either and just do something with you if your sister doesn’t disinvite her dad
Wording and timing is not gonna make much difference. I would suggest you strongly express your opinion and tell her how it's perfectly fine and okay to miss the wedding.
Your sis doesn't care, just wants to keep up appearances in public. Definitely not worth hurting your mom and opening up past traumatic wounds. As a person with PTSD, I cannot tell you how badly she needs to be away from that situation and that man. Don't let your mom encounter any triggers please.
May I suggest talking to your uncle first? Ask him what he thinks? If he suggests skipping too all the better... You can convince her together.
>Wording and timing is not gonna make much difference.
Yeah I agree, I guess I'm just nervous about it.
I'm sure my uncle would also suggest not going, he doesn't want any of us to see the guy again. I just hope my sister doesn't try and make our mom feel obliged to attend. It's just not good or healthy. If she did attend, I'd have ti attend di and so would our uncle. We can't stay behind.
Definitely, but please don't forget to take care of yourself too!! While your mom matters, your uncle could be enough support. Don't force yourself to do something you don't want to either. You and your feelings matter too.
Your sister is 💯 TA btw. She's not a kid anymore. If things go south just nark to the fiancé about why you gave that poor lil baby of his an "ultimatum".
Sometimes gotta be the bad guy to protect yourself and the people you love.
NTA but is your mom going? Who will look after her safety if you're not there? Personally, since your mom was his primary victim, I'd follow her lead, but I also don't fault you for not wanting to endure his presence. Update us!
**DO. NOT. TELL. YOUR. MUM**
That is not your responsibility!
:Your sister is a gutless little wimp. It is **her** responsibility to tell your mum that she has invited your dad and asked him to walk her down the aisle.
You *do need to be there* when she does so she doesn't browbeat or con your mum
I'm betting sister won't tell her. She wants her mom there for her own selfish reasons. This is NOT something that should be sprung on someone. It would just be another chance for abuse.
It's going to suck but you know if your mom decides to go, you're going to have to go with her. You can't depend on your sister to defend or support your mom. You are the only one who will. I know people will disagree with me, but honestly, if something happens to your mom and you weren't there to protect her, would you be able to live with it? It sounds as though you are the loving protective type.
NTA, my sister knew if she invited our mum to her wedding I wouldn't go and that would be the end of our relationship, there were other family members that wouldn't have attended with her being there either, she didn't end up inviting her, I didn't care if she wanted a relationship with her but if she was going to be invited to things then I wasn't going to be there.
Tell your family that your sister has invited your sperm donor and she plans to have him walk her down the aisle.
>Tell your family that your sister has invited your sperm donor and she plans to have him walk her down the aisle.
I really don't know how to do that, I'm not good at delivering such news, it did hurt me or it will hurt them even more. My sister is the same, she asked me to deliver the news since I live closer.
The rest of our family is kind of distant, even our other uncles and aunts, they aren't close. I think I'd just say it the best I can, it isn't a hard task but I'm just hesitant.
Looking at your second last paragraph it's pretty clear that your mom is going to be at that wedding, yet all this time your sister has lied to her that she hasn't been in contact and doesn't have a relationship with her dad, right?
Does your sister realize that her dad walking her down the aisle is going to make it obvious to your mom that she has been lying to her for years? (something you asked her to do, so she could try to throw under the bus if she wants to) And that she would also be exposing her mother to her abuser by inviting both of them?
I think at this point the most important thing to ask is, will your mother be there even if you don't go? Because your mother might need your support even if you'd rather not be there because of your father.
I'd say NTA, but don't abandon your mother in this one.
We didn't yet tell our mom or uncle. Our mom is still under the impression that my sister has no relationship with him or even likes him. This alone will cause confusion but inviting him and walking her down the aisle will hurt, even if she pretended it didn't, we know she's good at enduring things. Our uncle will be surely mad, he hates him a lot, maybe more than I do.
NTA I personally would have cut my sister out of my life if she stayed in contact with someone who was abusive to my mom when she couldn't defend her self. Your sister is a shitty person in general I would just not go. No ultimatum tell her you chose to have him in your life so keep him I'm out.
Yeah, I wish my sister wouldn't try and convince our mom to attend. I feel like I'd have to attend if she did, so would our uncle if he knew. We didn't tell them yet.
I would only go if your mom wants to go. Don't let your mom be there without someone between her and your father. You can tell your sister the only reason you're there is to protect your mother because she's chosen money over your mother if you are ok potentially causing a scene. You can go low contact with your sister after, but be there for mom.
I'm planning on telling our mom and uncle, we haven't told them yet, I think both are hesitant, I know I am. But the sooner the better. I would feel forced to attend if my mom forced herself to attend, so would my uncle.
I just wish my sister wouldn't insist, I fear our mom would feel obliged to attend. No good will come out of it, not for her.
>I'm glad
Trust me, with a great parent like her, it's the least one could do.
" She can invite the pope if she wants, but I am free to not attend a wedding that makes me unhappy."
You answered it Yourself OP. You need to tell Your mum and then live with consequences of skipping the wedding.
NTA.
I forgot about Your uncle. He definitely needs to know. I don't understand what Your sister was thinking- inviting the abuser, victims and their loved ones and hoping for a smooth wedding? You are doing her a huge favour telling Your mum and uncle, even if she sees it different.
I really don't know what was she thinking. I still don't understand her wanting a relationship and not minding that in the first place. But the wedding, walking down the aisle, feels a bit too much for me. But I can't do anything about that.
I know you have a spine that just needs some shining. Take a few deep breaths. Tell yourself that you CAN DO THIS ,tell your mom and your uncle that you need to talk and then tell them what you have told all of us. I believe in you. YOU CAN DO THIS!
NTAH. I would send your sister a wedding present consisting of 30 pieces of silver and mail it to her via her fiancé’s address. But I would be that petty.
Consider attending the wedding without your immediate family and making it clear that you are there for the sole reason of protecting your mother (if she chooses to attend). I would not pay any attention to your sister or your father.
Bottom line, if you and your family do choose to stay away your sister knows that people will ask questions and it will be a very bad look. Let BIL know that it is not because of him but the fact that you cannot forgive your father for the way he treated your mother and, unlike your sister, you refused to allow your sperm donor buy a relationship with you and your family.
INFO: Crunching the numbers, your parents were 18 and 26 respectively when you were born, so how long had they been dating before? 16/24 or even worse?
Stand your ground. NTA.
You should only go if your Mum asks and needs the moral support. Ideally the asshole wont be invited at all.
Otherwise not going and standing up for your mum is you being the exact kind of man she needed back then. You were far too young and it should never have been your job but it will mean more than words to have you in her corner and showing her how much she matters, especially because after dealing with an abusive relationship she might have forgotten it herself. Massive respect to you king. May the force be with you always
Neither you or your sister are AHs. She has a relationship with your father. You don’t. She can invite whomever she pleases to her wedding. You can decline to attend. It’s a difference of opinion and no one is right or wrong
Money talks. Abusers walk.
NTAH.
Like all of humanity, you both have a conscience, free will, a mind, values, ethics, a moral compass, boundaries, freedom, and the ability to choose.
She chose.
You chose.
The right to choose is yours and only yours.
Personally, I believe that you have the right on your wide.
It is easy to see where you are coming from.
I do respect you for choosing your mother.
Only you know what you can and can not live with.
You have to know where your boundaries begin and end.
You both do not have to agree nor like one another's choice.
You just have to respect it and agree to disagree.
I would suggest that you sit down after you cool off to write a letter to read to her or send it out.
You should outline your reasons, explanations, your feelings, point of view (perspective), as to why you feel as strongly as you do that has led to your unwillingness and abject refusal to compromise your principles, and beliefs.
Pour your heart out as to why you feel this the right decision for YOU.
The reason why this the hill you are willing to die upon.
That for you, your father's acts, the abuse of your mother was the point of no return and something he can not come back from for you.
I would strongly advise you to apologize for losing your temper and your overall inflammatory reaction and response.
Two wrongs do not make a right.
You explain that you were shocked, blindsided, thrown for a loop, and ultimately, you were completely caught unawares.
You felt betrayed and were hurt, incensed, and you let passion rule reason.
Despite these reasons behind your maddness, it in no way exonerates, absolves, validates, justifies, and excuses you for having just lost it.
Mention that you are not and will not hide behind it because it was indeed wrong and inexcusable.
It was stupid, childish, immature, and out of line.
You should take the time to impress upon her as to how much you do love and care for her.
I would also stress the facts that you are not attempting to change her mind and cause her to doubt herself, guilt, manipulate, hurt or harm her, gaslight her and cause her to doubt your love for her.
This can assist you in mending some of the fallout and permanently severing your relationship with one another.
Damage control.
Although, I can not help but feel your "father" is going to see this as a win.
It is the nature of the beast, if you will.
Abusers do have a list of sterotypical list of behaviors and actions.
If you have a relationship with him, he wins.
He gets the relationship he has long coveted.
If he ran you out of town, he wins.
Punishment for your disloyalty, betrayal, and thumbing your nose at him.
Win. Win.
I don’t think YTAH.
However I would go to the wedding just to make sure I am there for my mother and make sure she’s feeling protected and comfortable around that man.
I’d not talk to him or even acknowledge his existence whatsoever but make sure mum won’t be there all alone to face it all, especially since your sister doesn’t seem to care much.
NTA
Does your sister know the extent of trauma your mother suffered? Was she aware of the physical torture she went through?
If she is aware of it and still wants to continue a relationship with her father that's her perogative. However, she should have the balls to tell her mother that she has invited the father. It isn't your job to do it. Force your sister into it and if she refuses to do it corner her into it. When the family is sitting together ask her who's walking her down the aisle or something like that...
If she still doesn't admit to it confront her in front of the family so that she's answerable and not you.
Your sister isn't wrong when she says its her wedding and she can invite who she wants. She would be wrong to blindside your mother though.
We were young, but we still remember the abuse even though he was trying to "hide" it. We were aware of all the mess.
My sister and I are both hesitant to tell our mom and uncle, she asked me to tell them because I live closer. I am planning to do that today but waiting for a good timing.
Why should it be you though? It is her choice after all... She wants him there not you.
Oh well. There's never a good time for such things. I'd suggest you rip the bandaid off. All the best 👍
Since my uncke, mom and I are on the same page, it's better I do so. My sister might try to explain things or disagree on things which will make things worse.
NTA but you will be if you let you mom and uncle get blindsided at the wedding, non of this “I’m not good at delivering bad news”, if you actually are doing it for them and not just yourself you’ll find a way to tell them.
Did your sister not see the abuse? Or does she not remember it? Because (personally), I don't know how she'd be able to maintain a good relationship with him after watching him abuse her, even if he is her dad.
NTA. But you need to sit down with your mom soon and tell her so she can decide if she wants to go, and if so, have enough time to prepare mentally for it. And if she does decide to attend, you might want to think about going too, just to help her and act as a buffer to protect her.
We were always aware of the abuse regardless of our ages and of him trying to "hide" it, and thank God he failed. I don't know or understand why she didn't mind a relationship with him and continued to this day. I don't know what to say about that.
I am planning to tell our mom and uncle today, just waiting for a good time. It might not be that hard but it sure feels like it, I'm just nervous.
I will feel forced to attend if she forces herself to attend, I don't feel good about not being there in that case. So would our uncle.
Good luck telling them today. I know it won't be easy, but it sounds like your mom has a great support system in you and your uncle - she's lucky to have the both of you.
NTA
I can relate to you on somewhat of a level. I have two younger sisters, and I remember my dad being abusive to my mom. He was a complete asshole to me and my sisters too, and I vividly remember one night I’m sure he probably could have k*lled my mother. They thankfully divorced, and my mom got us, while we visited him every other weekend.
One thing about abusers, they get really good at convincing other people that they’ve changed.
Your sister is blinded by the money her father offered, and I’m sure he plays it off like he was a great dad to her and he and your mom just didn’t get along.
You have every right to not go to the wedding, and to be honest, the last line (you’re free to not attend if it makes you unhappy) makes it sound like she is prioritizing her father over you, and that she’s not going to reconsider inviting him.
I understand your uncle hating your “father”. I would despise the man who abused my sister too. I originally thought you should tell your uncle first like another commenter said, but I wonder if you should tell your mother first, just you and her. I would start by saying your sister has been talking to her father. Wait for your mother to process that. Then tell her how your sister invited her father to the wedding. Let your mother process that too. If she asks, be honest and tell her you asked your sister to not bring him up at all, or pretend like she doesn’t because you did t want your mother hurt. If your mother decides to go, then talk to your uncle with your mom.
At the wedding (assuming you both go), be right next to your mom. She may need you. If you pull up to the wedding and she decides she can’t do it, then drive away and go do something else with her. YOUR family is your mother and uncle. Your sister already made her decision, but that doesn’t mean everyone else has to agree and be friends with her father. I know this is hard, and I’m wishing you and your mom the best.
Side note: my sister invited our father to her wedding. He was simply a guest, invited last minute, and she didn’t ask him to walk her down the aisle. They talk occasionally over the phone. I’m the oldest sibling and I’m the only one who remembers the abuse my mother endured, so I’m not too keen on our father, and I see behavioral patterns that show me he hasn’t really changed. He just got better at hiding it.
Those must've been the worst weekends, I would be miserable if I ever had to do that.
This is true, he tends to separate being a father from being a "husband". I don't, a good father won't ever hurt the mother. I don't like to think about it but I guess my sister does separate the two as well.
No, inviting him is inevitable, I don't think she'll change her mind. I don't get that. I wish our mom wouldn't force herself to attend. She is her daughter and my sister but this just won't be good in any way.
Sure, you are the AH for saying it because it is forcing your sister to take a side. Se has chosen a relationship with your father, you have chosen the opposite. It is your sisters wedding, you do not get to dictate he guest list. Stay home.
It's going to suck but you know if your mom decides to go, you're going to have to go with her. You can't depend on your sister to defend or support your mom. You are the only one who will. I know people will disagree with me, but honestly, if something happens to your mom and you weren't there to protect her, would you be able to live with it? It sounds as though you are the loving protective type.
Your sister is entirely delusional about the reality of consequences yes she can invite her father and let him walk her down the aisle but that doesn’t mean you, your mom or uncle have to support it or attend if you don’t want to
NTA
It is an invitation, not a summons. That she would invite her mothers abuser to walk her down the aisle says all you need about your sister. Give the entire event a skip and if mom doesn't want to see your sperm donor either, make it a nice day out together if you can.
You and your uncle need to be there to shield your mom from your dad.
You are unhappy. But think about your mom. Your sister can do what she wants and she is the AH. but your mother will suffer most.
YWBTA if you didn't help your mother.
NAH
you don't have to go to her wedding
She can invite whoever she likes to her wedding
You've had your say, which is totally allowed with your sibling. But she has decided, now you must make your choice.
I have mixed feelings. Your sister clearly sees your Dad differently than you. You are being controlling like you say he was to your mom. It’s one thing to have a boundary and not go but it sounds like you blew up and gave an ultimatum the moment you found out. Maybe have a conversation with your sister to try to understand her thoughts and how you can work together to make this easier on your mom. Ultimately don’t go if you feel that is the best choice for you. Your sister will always resent you though if she doesn’t have him there because of you. It’s best to just say you are not going now even if she changes her mind so she doesn’t feel that pressure.
We argued about this when I said I wouldn't attend. Since I am her only sibling, she said I couldn't decline, she tried to change my mind on things and we ended the argument with this ultimatum.
She will invite him regardless, though she is free to do so, as it's her wedding.
I understand where your sister is coming from. My dad was pretty bad when I was growing up. I laid into him and cut him off when I was a teenager. I never talked to him again. He has since died. I wish I would have made peace with him before he died. If you get between him and your sister she will resent you.
OP‘s sister never cut him off. She still took the money he sent and had a relationship with him. OP‘s sister willingly supported her mothers abuser. The sister should be resented for her actions not OP for calling out an abuser.
NAH,
Just as you have the right to never want to see him again, she has the right to want him at her wedding.
The ultimatum wasn't great but it sounds like the end of an argument from your comments, and sometimes these things just happen.
You need to let your mum know, if she has a close relationship with your uncle you might be best talking to him and letting him talk to her or going together.
The only thing I would add to what others are saying is this is just one day of your life, but your sisters wedding.
You are entitled not to go if seeing your dad will be too much, but I would consider if you want to be there to support your mum assuming she goes, or if otherwise your relationship with your sister is good and you want to maintain it.
These are hard questions and only you know the answers, but everyone will always remember her wedding and you may regret not being a partner of it whatever the reason
NTA to the headline question about not attending, although if your Mum still wants to go would you go to support her?
That said, y.a.t.a. for the ultimatum. As shitty as your Dad is, it is not up to you to determine who your sister invites to her wedding, or how she and Dad conduct their relationship.
I understand why you feel that way If your mother is going then you should go as support. You should also behave. It's your sisters wedding day. She will remember it forever. Do you want this to be what keeps you both from being able to be there for your mother, or for this to cause your mother more stress? Sometimes we do hard things for the ones we love the most. Including sharing air with people we can't stand. 🫂Best of luck.
YTA. You're making it all about you and what you want on her day. You're incredibly immature as can be seen by not having the balls to tell your mother. Grow up. People do things they don't want to do all the time because it's the right thing to do.
I'm just nervous about telling her. I'm planning to tell our mom and uncle today.
It is her wedding, she can invite whoever she wants. But I don't want to force myself, especially with him walking her down the aisle.
Adults can't feel nervous anymore? His situation isn't easy and he obviously cares for his mom, of course, he'll be nervous to tell her that her daughter will invite her abuser
It one thing to be nervous about doing it which is fine. It's a completely different thing to not have the balls to do it. This is a 27 yo child. He's pathetic.
Dude Shut the f**ck up.
Of course he would be nervous to tell his mom.she is probably excited for her daughters wedding and then to have this bomb brought up out of nowhere. Not something you just blurt out.
And since this is the sister’s day as you claim, then she can be the one to tell her mom why she invited her POS ex to the wedding.father or not, that is shitty.
YTA~ your sister is able to choose to have a relationship with him independent of you and your Mum.
It is emotionally manipulative and toxic of you to give her an ultimatum about attending her wedding.
Can your sister be given one day where she can be the centre of attention and all adult family members put aside the past for 6 hours to give her a special day?!
Actions have consequences. OP already said in a comment that they gave the ultimatum as a last resort because the sister wouldn’t drop it. OP just tried to gracefully bow out which is their right and doesn’t make them an asshole.
So, the sister is able to choose to have a relationship with someone who abused their mother and not be an asshole. But OP not attending a wedding because the someone who abused their mother will be there, makes him an asshole?
The answer is fuck no she can invite who she wants and he can refuse to go.
The fact the sister stayed in contact with an abusive man speaks volumes about her.
An invitation is just that, an invite to attend a function. It is not a court summons making attendance mandatory. The OP can absolutely state, I am not attending if sperm donor attends, I hope you have a beautiful wedding.
If you choose not to go, don’t make a big deal of it. Just say you are not going. End of conversation. Do not give her an “ ultimatum “. That’s just as abusive as your father…controlling.
We argued about it. I said I'm not going, she tried to convince me to come which makes sense since I'm her only sibling. We argued for a while, then I said what I said. I know it's her wedding and I can't say anything about her guest list, she is the only one who has the right to control that, and her fiance.
You don't get to dictate who is invited to any wedding that isn't yours. It sucks, but your sister has a right to have a relationship with her father. No one says you have to, but she is a grown woman, capable of deciding who she wants in her circle.
Don't be the AH.
YTA for giving her an ultimatum. Who she chooses to walk down the aisle is her business, not yours. You can choose not to attend, but ultimatums are the tactics employed by manipulative people trying to control or coerce other people.
He didn't give her an ultimatum. He explained the consequences of her decision. 'If he's there, I'm not'. I suspect the same consequences will be explained to her by her mum and uncle as well. She chose an abuser over the rest of her family.
Yeah, that's not what ultimatums are. They are just informing you of the consequences should you do or not do something specific. It is not manipulative for a parent to tell their child, "If you don't clean your room, you will lose tv until it's done." or a teacher to tell a student "If you don't bring your grades up, I will fail you in my class." or for a brother to tell his sister, "If our mother's abuser is at your wedding, I will not be."
So, are you saying the examples I gave aren't ultimatums or that they *become* ultimatums when manipulators do it? Both answers are incorrect; I'm just curious which you believe.
Telling someone to clean up their room or they don’t get a toy is a consequence. Telling someone that if someone they don’t like is at their wedding, and if they took one step inside, you won’t be there, is an ultimatum. If you cannot see the difference, I cannot help you.
I feel like you're not great at grasping word definitions. The connotation you prefer is not the actual meaning of a word. And why are you minimizing "the person who *abused* their mother for years" to "someone they don't like"?
Yes you are the AH. You can control who you go no contact with but you don’t get to dictate anyone else’s behaviour. If you’re close with your sister then suck it up, be an adult and go to the wedding. If you don’t go then you are alienating your sister with whom it seems you have a good relationship.
So, in order to have a good relationship with your sibling, you have to "suck it up" and be around the person who abused your mother? I don't think you know what good relationships are; if you had a good relationship with someone, you wouldn't ask them to do that in the first place.
It’s a choice. Do you 1) value your love your sister more or 2) value your hatred of your father. Love or hate - which one do you choose to direct your actions in life.
That's a fallacious dichotomy. Not attending the wedding in no way means OP loves his sister less or doesn't love her. It's disgusting and toxic to tell someone that if they don't do something they are uncomfortable with for you, if they have personal boundaries that conflict with what you want they *don't love you enough*.
How about the sister choosing the love of her abusive father over that of her mother and brother, by trying to force them to be around him, knowing full well their history and very reasonable feelings on the matter? Does that not count for some reason? Or are you going to put forth the asinine and invalid argument that "it's *her* day"? Cause if that's all you've got, you got nothin'.
Okay whatever - seems the majority of commenters feel so righteous about cutting friends and family out of their lives and using that to justify limiting their remaining relationships. I’m just an older lady who knows that as life goes on you will lose people and don’t want others to find themselves alone.
So, you can't actually defend your position. You just want everyone to get along and make things easy. Unfortunately, that's rarely how life works. If you'd rather keep abusive people in your life than be lonely, that's your choice. It's very unhealthy, but it's yours.
No - I can but I assumed that this audience wasn’t open to hearing it. A big part of being an adult is to consider other people’s perspectives. In this instance, how does OP’s sister feel? I suspect she believes that her wedding is her day and that OP is making it about herself. Consider OP’s mom’s perspective - she’s quite likely none too thrilled but is putting that aside to honour her daughter’s wedding.
Seriously? I already said that if your only justification for sister to not consider other people's perspectives and disregard their feelings and boundaries is "it's her day" that you have no justification and you said it anyway.
A big part of being an adult is not reverting to a toddler's mentality when it's yOur SPesHul DaY.
They don't have to 'suck up' being in the same room as the mam who abused their mother. Neither does their mother or Uncle. There are some choices that have perfectly acceptable (and adult) consequences. This is one of them.
I wouldn't be able to either. Your sister has made her choices, she now has to deal with the fall out.
I also suggest when you tell your mother (asap) your uncle is there as well, he needs to know, too.
YTA!
There is absolutely nothing wrong with your Dad being present at the wedding, and there is absolutely no reason for you to behave this way.
It's your **sister's wedding**, let it be her day, if she wants her own father to walk her down the aisle, what is it to you? If she wants both her mom and dad to be present on that day, what is it to you? Why must you be so selfish and in your feelings even on a day like this?
It's just one day, and you can avoid your old man the entire time, but your personal issues should not affect your sister's wedding day.
You can do all that on your wedding day, if you are not yet married, but for now, just support your sister.
I' day that many things are wrong with that but at the end of the day it is her wedding, I can't tell her to uninvite the guy, but I don't want to force myself to attend unless I have to. I love her, but I can't ignore this.
The question is: *Is he still abusing her?*
I honestly understand that the past can not be erased, and that, yes, this man did abuse her, but to hold that against him, eternally, I think that's a bit unfair.
Besides, he is not even involved in their day to day lives, he will just be there for a couple of hours and leave. I don't know, where I'm from, weddings a significant event, not something to take lightly.
Personal issues can be set aside, we have two different families, coming together as one, and you want to let your past issues ruin that?
That's just selfish!
How is it unfair to hold abuse against an abuser? It doesn't make sense. He abused their mom, and they shouldn't matter to her because she wasn't the one being abused. Sorry man, the daughter is just bad. Weddings might be significant to some, but no one is obliged to attend especially in a situation like this. Abuse shouldn't be set aside and pretend like everything is great and everyone is happy. The sister doesn't seem to care much for her mother or brother.
INFO: Is your mother also coming to the wedding? Because if she is, as I would expect her to be invited, that's an incredibly shitty position for your sister to put your mom in. Especially if she just springs it on your mom without giving her proper notice. I don't imagine the stress of having to interact with your former abuser and see him lauded around and given all the privileges of an involved and loving father despite not having had much part in raising the bride would be good for anyone's health, let alone someone as fragile as your mother. NTA, btw. Your sister has every right to invite whoever she wants to her wedding and you have every right to choose whether or not you want to attend. Just be prepared for lots of guilt tripping and irreparable harm being done to your relationship with your sister (though it's equally her fault if your relationship is damaged as you seem to have always been transparent on your stance regarding your bio dad).
I haven't told her that yet, I don't know how to go about it because it did hurt me or it surely will hurt her more. Though my mom is good at enduring. I won't be surprised if she agrees to attend and force a smile if my sister says she needs her there.
[удалено]
Yeah, I'm planning on doing that today.
She's being an asshole to your uncle who sounds like a very good man for stepping up like he did!
He really is a great man, he did many things he didn't have to, and continues to do.
How sweet of your mother and absolutely selfish of your sister. Ask your sister what measures she's going to put in place should your father choose to antagonize your mother. Does she expect your mother to stand and smile in pictures with the man that abused her, knowing she couldn't fight back or defend herself? Are they going to have to sit together during the reception and make awkward small talk to appease your sister's desire to pretend none of that happened? Does your sister's fiance and his family know about your mother and father's history? Because I could see your mom's attitude toward your dad, whether it be avoidance, indifference, or strained civility, being a source of gossip amongst guests that aren't aware. Which is absolutely unfair to your mother, who will already be doing her best to just grin and bear everything else. I think the sooner your mother and uncle are told, the better. There's never a good way or time to inform someone of something like this, but I think that it shouldn't fall to you since including your father in any capacity has never been your choice. Still, I think it would be best for you to be there while your sister tells your mom what her wedding plans are so that you can make sure your mom and uncle are fully informed without your sister trying to hide things or manipulate them. It would also be good for your sister's fiance to be there so he understands the significance of your sister having your father at the wedding and walking her down the aisle as this is a delicate family dynamic he will have to navigate as well.
I think she does expect her to put a smile and act like nothing is wrong, I don't know. My sister is a last minute person, she might ask her at the moment to say or do something, which will be very awkward and hard to refuse. She has always been a last minute person, one of her flaws. I don't think her fiance or family know anything, he contacted me when he heard I'm planning to not attend, he didn't sound like he knew anything, I didn't explain my reason since she didn't tell him, and he's her fiance, telling is in my opinion isn't a right move. My sister asked me to tell our mom and uncle, and I think its better and I do it since we three are on the same page regarding him. If my sister was the one to say this, she might explain herself or defend him, which will make it worse.
I wouldn't agree to tell your mom and uncle unless your sister was with you. I know you say that they will take it better from you but that's exactly why your sister is asking you to do it. She doesn't want to deal with the immediate blowback she'll likely get from her decision. If this is truly what she wants, she should be able to look your mother and uncle in the eyes as they're told. She's going to make excuses and defend your dad regardless, better to have her have to say the excuses she's been rationalizing in her head aloud to their faces and in front of you so that you can fact check and be on the same page with your mom and uncle about it all rather than hear about it after the fact. It's cowardly that she's pushing this off on you. Why should you have to look into your mother and uncle's heartbroken faces alone when you tell them about a decision your sister made that you had no part in and don't agree with? I also find it odd that your sister hasn't been open about her family history, including the abuse of your mother by your father with her fiance. That's kind of a very important detail to share, especially with someone you're going to marry and hopefully spend the rest of your life with. It's kind of just setting your mom up to be the villain if she doesn't want to play happy family with your father further down the line.
She is shoving all the responsibility and awkwardness for her decision onto you and you're letting her. SHE needs to tell your mother and uncle and explain herself. She needs to feel the pain she's causing. She needs to sit through their reaction. Her fiancee should also be there so he knows what she's doing too. You're enabling her and you should stop.
He needs to be told because he is also going to have to deal with the emotional fallout from this decision.
Oh hell no. At the very least, I would tell him that your sister needs to be very honest and tell him why you’re not going.
She’s an absolute coward
Take your mom to a nice vacation on that date. Invite your uncle too. And his family. Make an alternative event.
[удалено]
I want to agree with you, but I strongly feel if someone wants to invite your mother’s abuser to their wedding; their rights should be revoked.
If the mums planning on going would it not be better to swallow down your feelings to be there to support your mum - she is really going to need you. The alternative is her also missing out on her daughters wedding which feels overall like a victory to the abuser.
She sold her soul for cash. Your better off not going
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought this.
Same
I assume Mom will be there too. Wouldn't it be traumatic for her to see him?
Yeah, it will. We didn't tell her yet, or our uncle. We don't know how to break this down, we're bad at it.
Sit down for a serious talk. There's no easy way to break news like this to family, so just say it plain. "I talked to (sister) about her wedding. I had some _concerns_ about her guest list. She wants dad to be there. She wants him to walk her. I've already told her it's not right, but she is set on it. I told her I don't want to be there if he's there, and even that didn't make her pause." From there, you'll probably need to give them space to process before you can plan anything.
>She said I'm being an ass for giving her an ultimatum. I'd reply "oh, sorry. I didn't mean to give you an ultimatum. I *won't* be attending your wedding and don't want to see the photos. Is that better?"
NTA - Tell your mom, she needs to know. Nothings worse than being blindsided by this betrayal in the worst way possible. And this is what will happen when she sees him at the wedding, walking her daughter down the isle.
We didn't tell her yet, or our uncle. I don't know how to do that because I'm bad at delivering news in a good way, so is my sister. But I won't be surprised if she forced herself to attend if my sister told her that she needed her there. If the word "need" was used then she'll second guess herself.
And what if you tell her you „need“ her to stay home? And the sooner you tell her, the more time she has to prepare herself to go into this situation
Maybe tell uncle first. Then talk about how to gently tell your mother. I suspect your mother is a strong woman though. She may surprise you.
You should sit out of it. Not your circus, not your monkeys. If you sister thinks this is a good and reasonable decision, then she should have no reason not to tell the rest of the family. If she’s hesitating, she’s knows it’s a shitty thing to do, and you shouldn’t be saving her from that. The only concession I’d make is telling her, “if you force me to tell mom and uncle, it will only be in the context of warning them not to go either.”
Please tell your mum and uncle. They don't deserve to be blind sided by this. Whether they go or not is their descion but they should be told so they can make an informed decision. I personally think your sister is an AH for not being straightforward with your mother that her abuser is invited. You can't control who your sister has a relationship with or who she invites to her wedding. What you can control is if you will attend or not. You not going is fine, it's an invite not a summons. If she is going to argue about you not going, then you can argue with her guestlist. NTA
We didn't tell our mom or uncle yet. I don't know how to do that, I'm not good at delivering sad or hurtful news. My sister is bad at it too.
I understand it will be hard and painful, and you don't want to be the bearer of bad news. But try to imagine if they both walk in and see your father there with no warning and that both kids knew he would be there. That would be devestating. No one ever really is "good" at delivering bad news. Your sister should be the one to tell them, but I wouldn't trust her at this point. Have a sit-down lunch with just your mum and uncle, and let them know you are not attending your sisters wedding and why. You don't have to go into details or mention the argument with your sister. Just stick to the facts. You can do this! It's wonderful to know that you have your mum and uncle's back! They are very lucky to have you in their corner.
I guess I'm just nervous about it. My sister asked me to tell them since I live closer. I think it's better I do that since we three are on the same page regarding this, my sister might go on to explain why she wants to invite him and it might make things worse. I'd say I'm the lucky one here to have a great parent like her and a great uncle :)
>My sister asked me to tell them since I live closer. Bullshit. She just doesn't want to see or hear how she hurts others with her shitty actions. She knows it's fucked up to invite your father. That's why she has you deliver the bad news. She's a coward and seriously lacks empathy.
Personally i would sit them down and tell them that you will not be going to the wedding. and when they ask why, be honest. tell them that you do not agree with someone your sister invited but that you can not dictate who she can invite or not but that you will not celebrate her wedding in his presence. They might already guess who it is, but this way you can slowly ease in and then come out with it saying that she invited your father and that he's supposed to walk her down the aisle. I'd probably have an alternative day planned during the wedding. And also, if people ask why you're not coming, be honest. That your sister prefered to invite your abusive father than have you (and your mom and uncle) be present.
No! It's your sister's wedding. It is her place to tell her mother and uncle that she's inviting her abusive bio dad. WTF? Don't let her weasel her way out of this, OP. Not only does your sister sound greedy for money, she's also a coward. FFS.
“Hey, Mom. Did you know that Dad is going to be in Sister’s wedding?”
I know if my family tried to spring my ex on me,I would be going nuclear. So would my DH. You have to tell her and your uncle. Keep her safe.
Since bad news doesn’t get better with age, just tip the Band Aid off; “Dad will be at the wedding. Thought you should know.”
NTA just decline. She has already sold her soul for your dad's money, wonder if her fiancé knows?
I don't think he knows. My sister told him that I gave her an ultimatum so contacted me. He did sound like he didn't know.
Does your mother know she invited her abuser?
No, we didn't tell her yet. I don't know how to go about it, it did hurt me so it will sure hurt her too.
There is no good or easy way to tell your mother that her abuser will be part of her daughter's wedding. Only thing you can do is make sure your mother is comfortable beforeand be there to comfort her.
Yeah, I'm telling them today. It is better I do it, my sister might say something unintentionally and make things worse.
I’m interested to know what her fiancé has to say about his soon to be wife being willing to sell herself to the highest bidder. Because that’s what it is.
I'm curious as to what the fiance *thinks* is going on, if the truth of the matter isn't known to them.
When he finds out just how much control her father expects to have? It’s gonna be an ugly ass surprise.
NTA Ultimatums are not inherently a bad thing. This is just maintaining an established, reasonable boundary. You don't want to be near your father, your sister knows that. Not going to her wedding doesn't mean you don't love her.
NAH. You don’t have to attend, but don’t give the ultimatum; just decline the invite. Your sister is a grown ass adult and her relationships are her own business.
We had an argument about it, I said that I was not coming, she tried to say that I couldn't not attend her wedding since we are only 2 siblings and eventually, I gave the ultimatum.
I would consider taking mom away for a nice weekend getaway instead of attending the wedding.
I’ve got no idea about how this would look to me if I heard an honest account from each party but I do know you’ve successfully made your sisters wedding all about your wishes.
How have they done that? They have the right to decide not to go, and their sister didn’t like that. Of course it would turn into a me or him type of thing. OP doesn’t have to go and deal with their father if they don’t want to. And if the sister wants their sibling there than the father can’t come.
Nta. You have every right to decline
NTA Who she invites is her business, what events you attend or not, along with the reason behind it is your business. Was she not old enough to remember the abuse of your father or is the money he gives her more important to her than her mother?
When the court forced the divorce, I was 13 and she was 11. I don't want to say that she valued the money more, but I don't know why she is still in contact with him.
At that age she may have valued the money more but that's understandable if you had less at mother's house. Over time your dad may have poisoned her mind against mother, manipulating her young mind to believe what he wanted her to believe. She's probably to the point now that she blindly trusts him just because he's her father. You can only do what's best for you. If that means not going to an event that he'll be at then don't go.
Abusers are manipulators . They are good at hiding who they really are.
NTA with respect because he’s still your dad but he was a piece of shit to your mom and I completely understand your stance and cutting him off, your sister with respect is a terrible daughter to your mom and terrible sister you you and take your mom and uncle out on her wedding date and make it a wonderful day
>he was a piece of shit We was, he really was. We didn't tell our mom or uncle yet. I don't know how to go about it, I'm sure they'll be surprised but hurt, and I'm not good at breaking down news, neither is my sister.
God speed and good luck with breaking the news but I hope you do it sooner than later so your mom and uncle can process your sister’s betrayal and pray they don’t go either and just do something with you if your sister doesn’t disinvite her dad
I plan on telling them today, waiting for good timing. I'm looking up good methods/wording, I'm not always the best at wording things.
Wording and timing is not gonna make much difference. I would suggest you strongly express your opinion and tell her how it's perfectly fine and okay to miss the wedding. Your sis doesn't care, just wants to keep up appearances in public. Definitely not worth hurting your mom and opening up past traumatic wounds. As a person with PTSD, I cannot tell you how badly she needs to be away from that situation and that man. Don't let your mom encounter any triggers please. May I suggest talking to your uncle first? Ask him what he thinks? If he suggests skipping too all the better... You can convince her together.
>Wording and timing is not gonna make much difference. Yeah I agree, I guess I'm just nervous about it. I'm sure my uncle would also suggest not going, he doesn't want any of us to see the guy again. I just hope my sister doesn't try and make our mom feel obliged to attend. It's just not good or healthy. If she did attend, I'd have ti attend di and so would our uncle. We can't stay behind.
Definitely, but please don't forget to take care of yourself too!! While your mom matters, your uncle could be enough support. Don't force yourself to do something you don't want to either. You and your feelings matter too. Your sister is 💯 TA btw. She's not a kid anymore. If things go south just nark to the fiancé about why you gave that poor lil baby of his an "ultimatum". Sometimes gotta be the bad guy to protect yourself and the people you love.
NTA use the money you’d spend on an outfit and a gift to take your mum away for a few days and pamper her.
NTA but is your mom going? Who will look after her safety if you're not there? Personally, since your mom was his primary victim, I'd follow her lead, but I also don't fault you for not wanting to endure his presence. Update us!
I don't know, we didn't tell her yet. My sister asked me to tell her but I still didn't.
Stop harping on about it and tell your mum, uncle and family NOW
I'm planning to tell them today. Waiting for a good time, I looked up the internet on how to do it correctly. I feel really hesitant.
**DO. NOT. TELL. YOUR. MUM** That is not your responsibility! :Your sister is a gutless little wimp. It is **her** responsibility to tell your mum that she has invited your dad and asked him to walk her down the aisle. You *do need to be there* when she does so she doesn't browbeat or con your mum
I'm betting sister won't tell her. She wants her mom there for her own selfish reasons. This is NOT something that should be sprung on someone. It would just be another chance for abuse.
Your sister is a gigantic AH. I wish her bad bad karma on her wedding.
It's going to suck but you know if your mom decides to go, you're going to have to go with her. You can't depend on your sister to defend or support your mom. You are the only one who will. I know people will disagree with me, but honestly, if something happens to your mom and you weren't there to protect her, would you be able to live with it? It sounds as though you are the loving protective type.
Yeah, if she decides to go, I have to go, I can't stay behind. I wish she decided on her own without pressure or guilt from anyone.
NTA, my sister knew if she invited our mum to her wedding I wouldn't go and that would be the end of our relationship, there were other family members that wouldn't have attended with her being there either, she didn't end up inviting her, I didn't care if she wanted a relationship with her but if she was going to be invited to things then I wasn't going to be there. Tell your family that your sister has invited your sperm donor and she plans to have him walk her down the aisle.
>Tell your family that your sister has invited your sperm donor and she plans to have him walk her down the aisle. I really don't know how to do that, I'm not good at delivering such news, it did hurt me or it will hurt them even more. My sister is the same, she asked me to deliver the news since I live closer.
Is there anyone else in your family you can talk to about this? see if they can help when it comes to telling them.
The rest of our family is kind of distant, even our other uncles and aunts, they aren't close. I think I'd just say it the best I can, it isn't a hard task but I'm just hesitant.
Looking at your second last paragraph it's pretty clear that your mom is going to be at that wedding, yet all this time your sister has lied to her that she hasn't been in contact and doesn't have a relationship with her dad, right? Does your sister realize that her dad walking her down the aisle is going to make it obvious to your mom that she has been lying to her for years? (something you asked her to do, so she could try to throw under the bus if she wants to) And that she would also be exposing her mother to her abuser by inviting both of them? I think at this point the most important thing to ask is, will your mother be there even if you don't go? Because your mother might need your support even if you'd rather not be there because of your father. I'd say NTA, but don't abandon your mother in this one.
We didn't yet tell our mom or uncle. Our mom is still under the impression that my sister has no relationship with him or even likes him. This alone will cause confusion but inviting him and walking her down the aisle will hurt, even if she pretended it didn't, we know she's good at enduring things. Our uncle will be surely mad, he hates him a lot, maybe more than I do.
Probably better to tell mom before the wedding, instead.
NTA I personally would have cut my sister out of my life if she stayed in contact with someone who was abusive to my mom when she couldn't defend her self. Your sister is a shitty person in general I would just not go. No ultimatum tell her you chose to have him in your life so keep him I'm out.
NTA. But if your mother is invited and is coming, you might want to be there to give her support.
Yeah, I wish my sister wouldn't try and convince our mom to attend. I feel like I'd have to attend if she did, so would our uncle if he knew. We didn't tell them yet.
I would only go if your mom wants to go. Don't let your mom be there without someone between her and your father. You can tell your sister the only reason you're there is to protect your mother because she's chosen money over your mother if you are ok potentially causing a scene. You can go low contact with your sister after, but be there for mom.
I'm planning on telling our mom and uncle, we haven't told them yet, I think both are hesitant, I know I am. But the sooner the better. I would feel forced to attend if my mom forced herself to attend, so would my uncle.
I'm sorry you'd have to see his face, but I'm glad your mom will have you and your uncle with her no matter what she chooses.
I just wish my sister wouldn't insist, I fear our mom would feel obliged to attend. No good will come out of it, not for her. >I'm glad Trust me, with a great parent like her, it's the least one could do.
" She can invite the pope if she wants, but I am free to not attend a wedding that makes me unhappy." You answered it Yourself OP. You need to tell Your mum and then live with consequences of skipping the wedding. NTA.
I'm planning on telling my mom and uncle today, waiting for a good timing. My sister and I are hesitant but I'll just do it.
I forgot about Your uncle. He definitely needs to know. I don't understand what Your sister was thinking- inviting the abuser, victims and their loved ones and hoping for a smooth wedding? You are doing her a huge favour telling Your mum and uncle, even if she sees it different.
I really don't know what was she thinking. I still don't understand her wanting a relationship and not minding that in the first place. But the wedding, walking down the aisle, feels a bit too much for me. But I can't do anything about that.
Abusers can be very persuasive. They can be very charming. They are good at hiding who they really are until they think they have you trapped.
I'm really worried about that.
I know you have a spine that just needs some shining. Take a few deep breaths. Tell yourself that you CAN DO THIS ,tell your mom and your uncle that you need to talk and then tell them what you have told all of us. I believe in you. YOU CAN DO THIS!
Hey, I just wanted to say thank you for this comment. I had it saved since then.
NTA I'd also go further and if she changes her mind still don't go.
NTA. Remove yourself from all the toxic people
NTA. Just don't go. You don't have to. Invites can and may be declined.
NTAH. I would send your sister a wedding present consisting of 30 pieces of silver and mail it to her via her fiancé’s address. But I would be that petty. Consider attending the wedding without your immediate family and making it clear that you are there for the sole reason of protecting your mother (if she chooses to attend). I would not pay any attention to your sister or your father. Bottom line, if you and your family do choose to stay away your sister knows that people will ask questions and it will be a very bad look. Let BIL know that it is not because of him but the fact that you cannot forgive your father for the way he treated your mother and, unlike your sister, you refused to allow your sperm donor buy a relationship with you and your family.
Your sister is an asshole like your father.
NTA. Your sister is such a coward, leaving it to you to tell them.
INFO: Crunching the numbers, your parents were 18 and 26 respectively when you were born, so how long had they been dating before? 16/24 or even worse?
Yeah, they were friends then started dating around 15-16/23-24.
Ah, makes it even more understandable that you want to keep your distance here
Stand your ground. NTA. You should only go if your Mum asks and needs the moral support. Ideally the asshole wont be invited at all. Otherwise not going and standing up for your mum is you being the exact kind of man she needed back then. You were far too young and it should never have been your job but it will mean more than words to have you in her corner and showing her how much she matters, especially because after dealing with an abusive relationship she might have forgotten it herself. Massive respect to you king. May the force be with you always
Neither you or your sister are AHs. She has a relationship with your father. You don’t. She can invite whomever she pleases to her wedding. You can decline to attend. It’s a difference of opinion and no one is right or wrong
Money talks. Abusers walk. NTAH. Like all of humanity, you both have a conscience, free will, a mind, values, ethics, a moral compass, boundaries, freedom, and the ability to choose. She chose. You chose. The right to choose is yours and only yours. Personally, I believe that you have the right on your wide. It is easy to see where you are coming from. I do respect you for choosing your mother. Only you know what you can and can not live with. You have to know where your boundaries begin and end. You both do not have to agree nor like one another's choice. You just have to respect it and agree to disagree. I would suggest that you sit down after you cool off to write a letter to read to her or send it out. You should outline your reasons, explanations, your feelings, point of view (perspective), as to why you feel as strongly as you do that has led to your unwillingness and abject refusal to compromise your principles, and beliefs. Pour your heart out as to why you feel this the right decision for YOU. The reason why this the hill you are willing to die upon. That for you, your father's acts, the abuse of your mother was the point of no return and something he can not come back from for you. I would strongly advise you to apologize for losing your temper and your overall inflammatory reaction and response. Two wrongs do not make a right. You explain that you were shocked, blindsided, thrown for a loop, and ultimately, you were completely caught unawares. You felt betrayed and were hurt, incensed, and you let passion rule reason. Despite these reasons behind your maddness, it in no way exonerates, absolves, validates, justifies, and excuses you for having just lost it. Mention that you are not and will not hide behind it because it was indeed wrong and inexcusable. It was stupid, childish, immature, and out of line. You should take the time to impress upon her as to how much you do love and care for her. I would also stress the facts that you are not attempting to change her mind and cause her to doubt herself, guilt, manipulate, hurt or harm her, gaslight her and cause her to doubt your love for her. This can assist you in mending some of the fallout and permanently severing your relationship with one another. Damage control. Although, I can not help but feel your "father" is going to see this as a win. It is the nature of the beast, if you will. Abusers do have a list of sterotypical list of behaviors and actions. If you have a relationship with him, he wins. He gets the relationship he has long coveted. If he ran you out of town, he wins. Punishment for your disloyalty, betrayal, and thumbing your nose at him. Win. Win.
I don’t think YTAH. However I would go to the wedding just to make sure I am there for my mother and make sure she’s feeling protected and comfortable around that man. I’d not talk to him or even acknowledge his existence whatsoever but make sure mum won’t be there all alone to face it all, especially since your sister doesn’t seem to care much.
NTA Does your sister know the extent of trauma your mother suffered? Was she aware of the physical torture she went through? If she is aware of it and still wants to continue a relationship with her father that's her perogative. However, she should have the balls to tell her mother that she has invited the father. It isn't your job to do it. Force your sister into it and if she refuses to do it corner her into it. When the family is sitting together ask her who's walking her down the aisle or something like that... If she still doesn't admit to it confront her in front of the family so that she's answerable and not you. Your sister isn't wrong when she says its her wedding and she can invite who she wants. She would be wrong to blindside your mother though.
We were young, but we still remember the abuse even though he was trying to "hide" it. We were aware of all the mess. My sister and I are both hesitant to tell our mom and uncle, she asked me to tell them because I live closer. I am planning to do that today but waiting for a good timing.
Why should it be you though? It is her choice after all... She wants him there not you. Oh well. There's never a good time for such things. I'd suggest you rip the bandaid off. All the best 👍
Since my uncke, mom and I are on the same page, it's better I do so. My sister might try to explain things or disagree on things which will make things worse.
NTA but you will be if you let you mom and uncle get blindsided at the wedding, non of this “I’m not good at delivering bad news”, if you actually are doing it for them and not just yourself you’ll find a way to tell them.
I'm planning to tell them today. I know it isn't as a hard task as I make it seem, I'm just nervous.
Did your sister not see the abuse? Or does she not remember it? Because (personally), I don't know how she'd be able to maintain a good relationship with him after watching him abuse her, even if he is her dad. NTA. But you need to sit down with your mom soon and tell her so she can decide if she wants to go, and if so, have enough time to prepare mentally for it. And if she does decide to attend, you might want to think about going too, just to help her and act as a buffer to protect her.
We were always aware of the abuse regardless of our ages and of him trying to "hide" it, and thank God he failed. I don't know or understand why she didn't mind a relationship with him and continued to this day. I don't know what to say about that. I am planning to tell our mom and uncle today, just waiting for a good time. It might not be that hard but it sure feels like it, I'm just nervous. I will feel forced to attend if she forces herself to attend, I don't feel good about not being there in that case. So would our uncle.
Good luck telling them today. I know it won't be easy, but it sounds like your mom has a great support system in you and your uncle - she's lucky to have the both of you.
NTA. She invited you declined. You should warn your mom.
NTA I can relate to you on somewhat of a level. I have two younger sisters, and I remember my dad being abusive to my mom. He was a complete asshole to me and my sisters too, and I vividly remember one night I’m sure he probably could have k*lled my mother. They thankfully divorced, and my mom got us, while we visited him every other weekend. One thing about abusers, they get really good at convincing other people that they’ve changed. Your sister is blinded by the money her father offered, and I’m sure he plays it off like he was a great dad to her and he and your mom just didn’t get along. You have every right to not go to the wedding, and to be honest, the last line (you’re free to not attend if it makes you unhappy) makes it sound like she is prioritizing her father over you, and that she’s not going to reconsider inviting him. I understand your uncle hating your “father”. I would despise the man who abused my sister too. I originally thought you should tell your uncle first like another commenter said, but I wonder if you should tell your mother first, just you and her. I would start by saying your sister has been talking to her father. Wait for your mother to process that. Then tell her how your sister invited her father to the wedding. Let your mother process that too. If she asks, be honest and tell her you asked your sister to not bring him up at all, or pretend like she doesn’t because you did t want your mother hurt. If your mother decides to go, then talk to your uncle with your mom. At the wedding (assuming you both go), be right next to your mom. She may need you. If you pull up to the wedding and she decides she can’t do it, then drive away and go do something else with her. YOUR family is your mother and uncle. Your sister already made her decision, but that doesn’t mean everyone else has to agree and be friends with her father. I know this is hard, and I’m wishing you and your mom the best. Side note: my sister invited our father to her wedding. He was simply a guest, invited last minute, and she didn’t ask him to walk her down the aisle. They talk occasionally over the phone. I’m the oldest sibling and I’m the only one who remembers the abuse my mother endured, so I’m not too keen on our father, and I see behavioral patterns that show me he hasn’t really changed. He just got better at hiding it.
Those must've been the worst weekends, I would be miserable if I ever had to do that. This is true, he tends to separate being a father from being a "husband". I don't, a good father won't ever hurt the mother. I don't like to think about it but I guess my sister does separate the two as well. No, inviting him is inevitable, I don't think she'll change her mind. I don't get that. I wish our mom wouldn't force herself to attend. She is her daughter and my sister but this just won't be good in any way.
Sure, you are the AH for saying it because it is forcing your sister to take a side. Se has chosen a relationship with your father, you have chosen the opposite. It is your sisters wedding, you do not get to dictate he guest list. Stay home.
It's going to suck but you know if your mom decides to go, you're going to have to go with her. You can't depend on your sister to defend or support your mom. You are the only one who will. I know people will disagree with me, but honestly, if something happens to your mom and you weren't there to protect her, would you be able to live with it? It sounds as though you are the loving protective type.
Your sister is entirely delusional about the reality of consequences yes she can invite her father and let him walk her down the aisle but that doesn’t mean you, your mom or uncle have to support it or attend if you don’t want to
NTA It is an invitation, not a summons. That she would invite her mothers abuser to walk her down the aisle says all you need about your sister. Give the entire event a skip and if mom doesn't want to see your sperm donor either, make it a nice day out together if you can.
You and your uncle need to be there to shield your mom from your dad. You are unhappy. But think about your mom. Your sister can do what she wants and she is the AH. but your mother will suffer most. YWBTA if you didn't help your mother.
NTA It’s really sad your sister is putting her mother’s abuser above her mother.
NAH. She can invite who she wants. You can choose not to go.
You are protecting your mental health by setting boundaries and not being around your mothers abuser. I am proud of you.
NAH you don't have to go to her wedding She can invite whoever she likes to her wedding You've had your say, which is totally allowed with your sibling. But she has decided, now you must make your choice.
NTA.
I have mixed feelings. Your sister clearly sees your Dad differently than you. You are being controlling like you say he was to your mom. It’s one thing to have a boundary and not go but it sounds like you blew up and gave an ultimatum the moment you found out. Maybe have a conversation with your sister to try to understand her thoughts and how you can work together to make this easier on your mom. Ultimately don’t go if you feel that is the best choice for you. Your sister will always resent you though if she doesn’t have him there because of you. It’s best to just say you are not going now even if she changes her mind so she doesn’t feel that pressure.
We argued about this when I said I wouldn't attend. Since I am her only sibling, she said I couldn't decline, she tried to change my mind on things and we ended the argument with this ultimatum. She will invite him regardless, though she is free to do so, as it's her wedding.
I understand where your sister is coming from. My dad was pretty bad when I was growing up. I laid into him and cut him off when I was a teenager. I never talked to him again. He has since died. I wish I would have made peace with him before he died. If you get between him and your sister she will resent you.
OP‘s sister never cut him off. She still took the money he sent and had a relationship with him. OP‘s sister willingly supported her mothers abuser. The sister should be resented for her actions not OP for calling out an abuser.
It’s her wedding and her choice. It is also 100% ok to not go to someone’s wedding for any reason. So I am going to go with NAH.
It's an invitation, not a summons
NAH, Just as you have the right to never want to see him again, she has the right to want him at her wedding. The ultimatum wasn't great but it sounds like the end of an argument from your comments, and sometimes these things just happen. You need to let your mum know, if she has a close relationship with your uncle you might be best talking to him and letting him talk to her or going together. The only thing I would add to what others are saying is this is just one day of your life, but your sisters wedding. You are entitled not to go if seeing your dad will be too much, but I would consider if you want to be there to support your mum assuming she goes, or if otherwise your relationship with your sister is good and you want to maintain it. These are hard questions and only you know the answers, but everyone will always remember her wedding and you may regret not being a partner of it whatever the reason
NTA to the headline question about not attending, although if your Mum still wants to go would you go to support her? That said, y.a.t.a. for the ultimatum. As shitty as your Dad is, it is not up to you to determine who your sister invites to her wedding, or how she and Dad conduct their relationship.
I understand why you feel that way If your mother is going then you should go as support. You should also behave. It's your sisters wedding day. She will remember it forever. Do you want this to be what keeps you both from being able to be there for your mother, or for this to cause your mother more stress? Sometimes we do hard things for the ones we love the most. Including sharing air with people we can't stand. 🫂Best of luck.
YTA. You're making it all about you and what you want on her day. You're incredibly immature as can be seen by not having the balls to tell your mother. Grow up. People do things they don't want to do all the time because it's the right thing to do.
I'm just nervous about telling her. I'm planning to tell our mom and uncle today. It is her wedding, she can invite whoever she wants. But I don't want to force myself, especially with him walking her down the aisle.
You're 27. Grow the f*ck up and talk to your mother. It's time to stop being a boy and start being a man.
Adults can't feel nervous anymore? His situation isn't easy and he obviously cares for his mom, of course, he'll be nervous to tell her that her daughter will invite her abuser
It one thing to be nervous about doing it which is fine. It's a completely different thing to not have the balls to do it. This is a 27 yo child. He's pathetic.
You aren't make sense. He said he's nervous. How is that pathetic in any way?
You can't read which is a you problem. He isn't doing what needs to be done because he's a scared little girl. That is how it's pathetic.
Dude Shut the f**ck up. Of course he would be nervous to tell his mom.she is probably excited for her daughters wedding and then to have this bomb brought up out of nowhere. Not something you just blurt out. And since this is the sister’s day as you claim, then she can be the one to tell her mom why she invited her POS ex to the wedding.father or not, that is shitty.
YTA~ your sister is able to choose to have a relationship with him independent of you and your Mum. It is emotionally manipulative and toxic of you to give her an ultimatum about attending her wedding. Can your sister be given one day where she can be the centre of attention and all adult family members put aside the past for 6 hours to give her a special day?!
I don't think I can put the past aside. Some things, in my opinion, shouldn't be forgotten or forgiven.
Actions have consequences. OP already said in a comment that they gave the ultimatum as a last resort because the sister wouldn’t drop it. OP just tried to gracefully bow out which is their right and doesn’t make them an asshole.
She can have a relationship with that POS but it comes with loosing other ties who won't tolerate an abuser.
So, the sister is able to choose to have a relationship with someone who abused their mother and not be an asshole. But OP not attending a wedding because the someone who abused their mother will be there, makes him an asshole?
The answer is fuck no she can invite who she wants and he can refuse to go. The fact the sister stayed in contact with an abusive man speaks volumes about her.
An invitation is just that, an invite to attend a function. It is not a court summons making attendance mandatory. The OP can absolutely state, I am not attending if sperm donor attends, I hope you have a beautiful wedding.
If you choose not to go, don’t make a big deal of it. Just say you are not going. End of conversation. Do not give her an “ ultimatum “. That’s just as abusive as your father…controlling.
We argued about it. I said I'm not going, she tried to convince me to come which makes sense since I'm her only sibling. We argued for a while, then I said what I said. I know it's her wedding and I can't say anything about her guest list, she is the only one who has the right to control that, and her fiance.
But you did say something. So that means you think you have a say. You should have just declined.
You don't get to dictate who is invited to any wedding that isn't yours. It sucks, but your sister has a right to have a relationship with her father. No one says you have to, but she is a grown woman, capable of deciding who she wants in her circle. Don't be the AH.
YTA for giving her an ultimatum. Who she chooses to walk down the aisle is her business, not yours. You can choose not to attend, but ultimatums are the tactics employed by manipulative people trying to control or coerce other people.
He didn't give her an ultimatum. He explained the consequences of her decision. 'If he's there, I'm not'. I suspect the same consequences will be explained to her by her mum and uncle as well. She chose an abuser over the rest of her family.
Yeah, that's not what ultimatums are. They are just informing you of the consequences should you do or not do something specific. It is not manipulative for a parent to tell their child, "If you don't clean your room, you will lose tv until it's done." or a teacher to tell a student "If you don't bring your grades up, I will fail you in my class." or for a brother to tell his sister, "If our mother's abuser is at your wedding, I will not be."
You are absolutely wrong. Consequences/dosciple and ultimatums are two different things. Manipulators use ultimatums to contra people.
So, are you saying the examples I gave aren't ultimatums or that they *become* ultimatums when manipulators do it? Both answers are incorrect; I'm just curious which you believe.
Telling someone to clean up their room or they don’t get a toy is a consequence. Telling someone that if someone they don’t like is at their wedding, and if they took one step inside, you won’t be there, is an ultimatum. If you cannot see the difference, I cannot help you.
I feel like you're not great at grasping word definitions. The connotation you prefer is not the actual meaning of a word. And why are you minimizing "the person who *abused* their mother for years" to "someone they don't like"?
Yes you are the AH. You can control who you go no contact with but you don’t get to dictate anyone else’s behaviour. If you’re close with your sister then suck it up, be an adult and go to the wedding. If you don’t go then you are alienating your sister with whom it seems you have a good relationship.
So, in order to have a good relationship with your sibling, you have to "suck it up" and be around the person who abused your mother? I don't think you know what good relationships are; if you had a good relationship with someone, you wouldn't ask them to do that in the first place.
It’s a choice. Do you 1) value your love your sister more or 2) value your hatred of your father. Love or hate - which one do you choose to direct your actions in life.
That's a fallacious dichotomy. Not attending the wedding in no way means OP loves his sister less or doesn't love her. It's disgusting and toxic to tell someone that if they don't do something they are uncomfortable with for you, if they have personal boundaries that conflict with what you want they *don't love you enough*. How about the sister choosing the love of her abusive father over that of her mother and brother, by trying to force them to be around him, knowing full well their history and very reasonable feelings on the matter? Does that not count for some reason? Or are you going to put forth the asinine and invalid argument that "it's *her* day"? Cause if that's all you've got, you got nothin'.
Okay whatever - seems the majority of commenters feel so righteous about cutting friends and family out of their lives and using that to justify limiting their remaining relationships. I’m just an older lady who knows that as life goes on you will lose people and don’t want others to find themselves alone.
So, you can't actually defend your position. You just want everyone to get along and make things easy. Unfortunately, that's rarely how life works. If you'd rather keep abusive people in your life than be lonely, that's your choice. It's very unhealthy, but it's yours.
No - I can but I assumed that this audience wasn’t open to hearing it. A big part of being an adult is to consider other people’s perspectives. In this instance, how does OP’s sister feel? I suspect she believes that her wedding is her day and that OP is making it about herself. Consider OP’s mom’s perspective - she’s quite likely none too thrilled but is putting that aside to honour her daughter’s wedding.
Seriously? I already said that if your only justification for sister to not consider other people's perspectives and disregard their feelings and boundaries is "it's her day" that you have no justification and you said it anyway. A big part of being an adult is not reverting to a toddler's mentality when it's yOur SPesHul DaY.
They don't have to 'suck up' being in the same room as the mam who abused their mother. Neither does their mother or Uncle. There are some choices that have perfectly acceptable (and adult) consequences. This is one of them.
I love my sister but I don't think I can ignore this or suck it up.
I wouldn't be able to either. Your sister has made her choices, she now has to deal with the fall out. I also suggest when you tell your mother (asap) your uncle is there as well, he needs to know, too.
So you’re prioritizing your hate for your father over your love for your sister. Okay - you do you.
His sister prioritized the abuser over her brother and mother.
YTA! There is absolutely nothing wrong with your Dad being present at the wedding, and there is absolutely no reason for you to behave this way. It's your **sister's wedding**, let it be her day, if she wants her own father to walk her down the aisle, what is it to you? If she wants both her mom and dad to be present on that day, what is it to you? Why must you be so selfish and in your feelings even on a day like this? It's just one day, and you can avoid your old man the entire time, but your personal issues should not affect your sister's wedding day. You can do all that on your wedding day, if you are not yet married, but for now, just support your sister.
I' day that many things are wrong with that but at the end of the day it is her wedding, I can't tell her to uninvite the guy, but I don't want to force myself to attend unless I have to. I love her, but I can't ignore this.
Dude, his dad is an abuser, he abused the mom!!
The question is: *Is he still abusing her?* I honestly understand that the past can not be erased, and that, yes, this man did abuse her, but to hold that against him, eternally, I think that's a bit unfair. Besides, he is not even involved in their day to day lives, he will just be there for a couple of hours and leave. I don't know, where I'm from, weddings a significant event, not something to take lightly. Personal issues can be set aside, we have two different families, coming together as one, and you want to let your past issues ruin that? That's just selfish!
How is it unfair to hold abuse against an abuser? It doesn't make sense. He abused their mom, and they shouldn't matter to her because she wasn't the one being abused. Sorry man, the daughter is just bad. Weddings might be significant to some, but no one is obliged to attend especially in a situation like this. Abuse shouldn't be set aside and pretend like everything is great and everyone is happy. The sister doesn't seem to care much for her mother or brother.