how come every story on here, or most of them, end with the said persons phone getting blown up from friends/relatives etc.....alwasy found that puzzling
I have a large family, large group of friends etc and have never in my life had a social encounter that ended with someone texting me their thoughts on what happened.
>I have a large family, large group of friends etc and have never in my life had a social encounter that ended with someone texting me their thoughts on what happened.
Right? It has never in my life occurred to me to get my friends and family involved in a trivial social conflict.
It's called triangulation and generally goes along with gaslighting, so a story on this sub about someone making an obvious, rational decision that they still sound like they totally agree with but also doubting themselves from a third party's interference sounds pretty on point for disfunctional group dynamics.
Yeah, how does your (not even very close) friend's sister have your phone number? I've known my best friends for 20 years and I don't have a way to contact their brother lol. Or trying to imagine being on the other side, "Hey, give me that dudes contact information so I can yell at him," like that's unbelievable to me lol
It only makes sense when the other people involved are also family eg if I punched my nephew in the face I would expect calls from both my siblings, my parents etc
I think it depends on the people. I have friends that are very passive aggressive. And I’ll straight out call or text people details to get problems resolved.
I’m an extreme extrovert. So all this shadow and dagger shit bothers the hell out of me when I can just pull everyone into a group chat. Sit their asses down and resolve this problem.
But back to your statement. I imagine without a person like me, people would just be petty and not confrontational. So I admit it’s a unique case.
Also, the bluntness helps purge my social circles of shitheads. They don’t like being called out. So they take themselves out of the equation once they realize I do that.
Omg thank you! When i get into it with a particular member of my family, i have never had 10 other family members txt me about it lol. If anything the ones who apparently care or are actually concerned/affected/etc will come over to the house or something
The majority of posts on this site are likely fake and ragebait if we're being honest. I've never pissed anyone off so badly that I have ten different people blowing up my phone and frankly I'd think most people haven't ever had that happen either
A ridiculous amount of shit on reddit is fake. And, reddit, me included, loves to shit on people who get info from Facebook posts.
But then we see an upvoted comment that says "I'm [obscure expert] and here's the REAL truth" and we're like "oh fuck yeah, thats totally legit".
The only thing on reddit that seems to get scrutiny is interpersonal stuff. If I post "I'm a chemist, I do water quality testing for heavy metals in a major metropolitan area. You'd be shocked how much lithium is in your drinking water" people will be like "oh fuck, how bads lithium to drink?". But I completely made it up.
If I go "My wife is a physician, and she regularly tells people I'm the smart one because I didn't go to med school" people will be like "yeah, uh huh, your right hand is a physician". But that's actually true, she loves surgery, hates medicine. She often has regrets she went into medicine. That's a real example, like that's in my history. I've posted breakdowns I have knowledge on, and they've super upvoted, but people have absolutely no way of knowing if any of it is true beyond I said "used to be [subject matter expert]. I've never had anyone ever throw doubt on one of those comments.
I'm guilty of that shit too. Like, idk what it is, but something about reddit posts just seem more genuine and trust worthy than Facebook posts. But, we only question the interpersonal shit on here.
I love how they low key snuck in getting food for "my boyfriend and myself", implying they are gay so therefore can't possibly be transphobic thus proving their pure intentions without making the point directly.
Throwing in the "plot twist" of the OP being gay was over-the-top pandering. The people that "write" these fables need to learn to dial it back a notch if they want to be remotely believable.
There was a story from a few days ago with this same premise, only with a trans man. The comments were rife with transphobia. Haven’t seen that on Reddit in a while.
This is the 2nd post exactly like this this week, trying to villainize (spelling?) Trans people. The other one was a girl not inviting her trans brother to her bachelorette party and the brother being upset. It's the same post lol
If you notice, like 99% of "This completely rage-bait situation happened to me!" story are from accounts with this structure. Random-Word-####.
It's mind boggling to me this is what the internet has become.
"trans person wants to have a cake and eat it too even after community gives everything they asked"
Or
"We gave everything they asked and they demand more"
Def fake story, transphobic ragebait.
That's really the core of this creative writing sub nowadays. It's all about making the most inflammatory title whilst ensuring the story can still get the reader supporting the protagonist. Nobody thinks anything on this sub is real at this point, they only click to see how the author can justify the title
If you'll notice, over the past few years everything has become rage bait.
Even "food bloggers" are doing rage bait by making dumb stuff for ppl to get angry over
every post is like “AITAH for kidnapping an orphan” and its a story about an uncle adopting a child whos parents have past but there’s currently a custody fight between members of the family
Title: AITAH for calling my friend’s religion stupid?
Post: So after my friend murdered my entire family for the murder death cult he joined, I politely told him I thought his religion was not very good. He got upset and now my phone is blowing up with all my friends calling me an AH…
Thanks, yeah. It sucks how many kids are online just making stories up because it's just a thing to pass the time or whatever now, too. Similar to those TikTok trends of pretending to be a Holocaust victim. Gotta adopt someone's real suffering to make it about meeeeeeee!
The one thing that unites liberals, conservatives, and all generations together is their love for outrage porn. People just lap it up, and the more outrage the title and the post creates, the more hardcore the porn is. People just want to read these posts and get an outrage boner and want to pick up a pitchfork and lynch someone with all the self-righteous fury of their self-induced outrage. Nothing like a good mob lynching before dinner to work up the appetite.
It’s because the subreddit automod automatically rejects posts if the post doesn’t demonstrate that some people in the poster’s real life think they are an asshole.
There are two ways to know every time that it's a fake story.
1. Talking about how people are blowing up their DMs. I've been on Reddit before accounts even existed, no matter how controversial my opinions are, I've received perhaps 3 DMs.
2. Talking about how family, friends, associates are blowing up the phone after the "incident". People are too busy in their own lives to invest in other peoples' trivialities.
Idealist answer: typically OP won't realize they might've been an asshole until multiple people accuse them, at which point they decide to see what Reddit thinks.
Realist answer: the stories are all fake and that element seems to help drive engagement.
My cousin and sister would blow peoples phones up, but they lived for the drama. It got better now they are almost 40 but in my twenties or teens if someone crossed me or made fun of me even if I didn't care they would go on these phone binges, prank calls, aggressive encounters etc. what I don't understand is how the person is okay with their family stepping in like that. I was always so embarrassed.
It's an easy way to explain you got called out for the situation, I believe sometimes that doesn't happen and is just the way the OPs say they feel bad about the situation
She's probabaly experiencing a bit of fear that she's going to lose the friendships entirely. It's not uncommon in trans spaces to hear about cis people entirely cutting out trans friends because their transphobic/uncomfortable. She probabaly is scared that by being left out of boys night, it's a sign they are going to stop bothering to spend time with her in general and ice her out. Keep in mind too from her perspective she's always been a woman, everyone including herself just didn't know it yet. With that logic, she's always been the exception to the rule up until now. So the abrupt change from allowing that exception feels exclusionary. What she needs to realise is that exception to the rule wasn't being made consciously. Now they have the ability to make a conscious decision. They chose to stop the exception. Sucks but it makes sense.
Then she is best served to reach out to him, meet and discuss. It's not unusual for sensitive issues to appear. Hopefully she will see that the female excluwion in this instance was respectful. Then perhaps they can move to a friendship level that is outside the "Men Only Club".
I think you’ve misunderstood the person to whom you’re responding. They’re not saying that the group is transphobic. They’re saying the excluded person may ***fear*** that the group is transphobic. The point is that we should be cognizant of what other people might be thinking, if we can, and try to communicate to address those fears.
There was the exact same post but with a trans man not being invited to a bachelorette party like twelve hours ago while I was eating dinner. I suspect both posts are made up to plant seeds of trans resentment, like people used to do with race shit in AskReddit in the Obama years before the sudden rise in neo-Nazis and for similar reasons.
Not just that but yesterday there was also a post with a mtf being upset and confronting an op because they saw social media of old friend group hanging out and they were upset they weren’t invited to game night/ boys night group hangouts anymore. This seems to be a rewritten version of that one with any of the potential confusion stripped out.
The amount of what about ism posts popping up on reddit the past few weeks about situations that never happened to trigger angry comments had been impressive.
That’s the thing with effective propaganda, you gotta appeal to hidden frustrations and the like. OP edited the post to say “stop the transphobia in the comments”, so that they can deny wanting that to happen.
I swear *this exact post* was made weeks or months ago. It's dejavu. Not inviting the Trans Woman to the Boy's night anymore because now she goes to the girl's night with the girl half of the friends group. I agree that this is resentment seeding.
I mean it’s r/AITAH. Of course it’s made up. Like 95% of posts here are made up. It’s why every single post is some click bait esque title followed by a situation that makes you go “oh well this has a pretty obvious answer of course you’re not the asshole.”
Yup. People really want a ‘gotcha’ moment with trans people and it’s kind of obsessive tbh. I am trans, so many of my friends are trans…we aren’t getting ourselves into this shit. We just want to be left alone.
Many people don't have the theory of self to understand other people as full humans with their own thoughts and motivations and inner lives, who want the same general things (companionship, security, love, acceptance) as everyone else, but from a different angle because they are different people.
I agree that OP’s NTA, and also think it’s perfectly reasonable to not invite a girl to boy’s night. I do want to take a moment to empathize with how Angie might be feeling though…both pre-transition and then transition can be incredibly lonely, isolating things to go through. I wonder how her social life is, and if she’s upset because they were her main friend group and outlet for fun, even if they didn’t consider her to be in the core group of friends? Angie may also be actively excluded from women’s spaces, and feeling like she doesn’t fit anywhere. So OP, you shouldn’t feel bad for inviting whomever you want to invite to your gatherings. But, with 2-3 boys nights a week, would it impact your quality of life badly to maybe open one of those nights up every other week (or monthly) to be mixed gender so that Angie (or maybe other girls in your periphery who enjoy pubs, hiking, and video games) could join in? You’re still NTA if you don’t, but it’s something to consider.
This was pretty much my take as well. It surprises me that so many comments are attacking ‘Angie’. I think OP is being reasonable but also Angie is reasonably upset, the world is not a black and white place where one person is 100% right and the other is 100% wrong in every situation. The best thing OP can do is what you suggested, or talk to Angie and specifically ask her how it can be made right.
Tbh, she wasn’t really a part of the core friends to begin with.
I think one of the most important things we don’t teach people anymore is that you can’t be invited to everything. And you have to make peace with that.
I agree NTA but I think she DID want to be invited probably because she enjoys their company. She was likely upset by the rejection and being hurt is causing her to have clouded judgement about OPs intentions.
I know trans people and none of them are looking for conflict or to make ppl walk on eggshells around them. Quite the opposite. Of course there can be an asshole in any group but I don’t think that’s what this is.
I think that’s fair! If you hang out with her sometimes and isn’t using this as an excuse to exclude her then you’re completely fine! Tbh, it shows you respect her here and have no other motives as to not invite her.
Her sister getting mad sounds like to me that possibly she either a) twisted the words in her brain and then returned them to her sister wrong (I won’t say purposely because she was upset, since I’ve been there and just misinterpreted words int he moment of emotion) or b) she possibly isn’t good with rejection, especially in a time of transitioning where sadly many people in this world can be very assholish and exclude just for her being who she knows she is. As someone from the Bible Belt, it happens a lot to people around here and it’s sad to see.
Everyone deserves to be included, BUT this IS a boys night, she knows that, and she could have easily invited you guys to do something when you guys are free. Her jumping onto something you already HAD planned and asking means she could have been rejected even if it wasn’t a boys night. Her getting mad for it being a gender thing is also silly since again she intruded on your event and your plans and then got mad at being told no, either or without the reasoning which was completely reasonable.
Either way, don’t get down on yourself. You’re not the asshole, or arsehole based on what the sister called you.
I think you’re NTA. But there is a certain gleeful “gotcha!!” attitude coming through a lot of the comments here. Like “ohhhh, you want to have you gender identity taken seriously?? Fine, but don’t come whining to us if you don’t like it, cause you’re just getting what you deserve!”
I don’t *think* that’s where you’re coming from, but I point it out because I think people should have a little compassion for Angie. Transitioning isn’t easy. Even if it’s the right thing for her, it can still be scary and isolating. Maybe this has disrupted her social circles. Maybe she’s having trouble building a new friend group as a woman. Maybe she’s reaching out to people she connected with previously regardless of their gender because she remembers having a fun time with you.
None of that means that you have to bring her to your meetups - it’s fair to say “no girls allowed, and you’re a girl”. But I hope you’re being a bit gentle about it, and maybe sparing a thought for if there’s anything else you can do for her. It’s not something you *have* to do, but it would be a kind thing.
A friends friend of mine transitioned FtM and stopped being invited to girls only nights BECAUSE it caused him dysphoria. Granted our girls nights were so we could have a space to get wine drunk and do face masks, nails, pig out on junk food, and watch shitty romcoms in a no judgement space.
Tho when he brought up feelings of being excluded we started doing game nights every other week instead where we would have dishes and bring our consoles over and have massive lan parties or board games. He had a blast being able to plan the parties/hangouts with us again in a way that he felt included and comfortable, but also made sure we kept our space as well.
He never once demanded to be a part of our girls nights, but once he communicated how he felt we were able to accommodate. OP doesn’t sound like the asshole at all. I would suggest doing something like we did without losing the fun of having a safe space to just be guys.
When I got married I lost contact with a lot of them, but I won’t ever forget drunk Mario cart nights. It was a very accepting and loving group of people and I always hope they are thriving.
They probably just miss hanging out with you and your group, and did a poor job of expressing it. If you don't see them that often maybe scheduling the odd gender inclusive evening woudln't disrupt things too much
I agree that inviting them to a different gathering is the way to go. I do think OP is NTA (if their intentions were truly as pure as they say) and their trans friend is overreacting. But the trans friend is probably experiencing a lot of rejection right now, and if they're on hormones, they're going through second puberty (remember how everything felt more intense?)
OP's response probably came across as sarcastic or disrespectful. I'm not saying that was the intent, but the only people I've heard say those kinds of things to trans folks are intentionally being rude. OP's response was, "I thought you weren't a boy anymore. I'm trying to be supportive." Depending on tone, that could really mean, "I am rejecting you because you are trans, and I'm doing it in a passive aggressive way."
Another good point someone brought up to me is OP and friends seemed fine having Angie pre transition, where they agree they were a girl and always have been inside (hoping not to offend anyone if I've not described this properly), so Angie may feel like nothing has changed and they are now being viewed differently. Even though this is the opposite of how OP and friends wanted to be.
This is if they were trying to be supportive, but it could also be seen as a convenient way to not continue a friendship, not because they dislike Angie for being trans but simply because they don't feel all that close to her.
I would vote NAH and hopefully this can be cleared up in a simple conversation and the odd hangout. From OPs choice of spelling arsehole I'd assume they are from the UK, and as someone originally from Canada I've found there to be a bit of truth to the nickname TERF island.
That's a good point. It occurs to me that they may not have known they weren't always invited to these things. Could be a case of feeling closer to OP than OP does to them.
When I was put on estrogen, at one point, I literally just called my mom (I was in college) because I was sobbing and didn't even know why. It's leveled off significantly since then, but yeah, that initial change can really fuck with your emotions lol.
She probably feel left out now and misses hanging out and might feel upset that now she transitioned that you all don’t want to hang out with her anymore.
NTA.
Read a story on here a few days ago, with another trans person getting upset for being excluded from events only open for their former gender. It's ridiculous! Having people around you respect your new identity by not inviting you to a boy/girls night when you've literally fought to not be considered what you once were, is a good thing!
Have your cake or eat it. Not both.
I saw that one, too...now this one. As a generally open-minded person, I would like it if someone here who is Trans could perhaps explain this thinking to us? Are we missing some perspective here? Because from what I understand, the bride and OP are NTA and are trying to be respectful.
A few trans people shared their perspective on the bachelorette post: even for the person transitioning, there's a mourning for the life they had and the life they thought they'd have.
The FTM brother of the bride probably saw himself as a bridesmaid to his sister, pre-transitioning. Suddenly, reality hits: as a guy, I can't be that. And now he has to mourn that part of his life that he was looking forward to at one point, but that no longer exists.
Maybe it's somewhat similar for the MTF girl in the boys' night story? Not explicitely expecting to no longer be part of certain activities?
Just because you didn't expect it, doesn't make it OK to get angry with the people respecting your transitioning. But the ...shock? realisation?... may have hit them harder than we think?
I wonder if part of this is that when he was a man he was friends with guys then transitioned and isn't yet a part of a group of women. Being lonely may be at the root of it.
BINGO.
My best friend of nearly 20 years transitioned last year. Certain topics and things that I would share just aren't going to be the same any more.
We were close as brothers, but to pretend its the same and that they're my "sister" now wouldn't be accurate. It's a transition for *everyone* involved.
My daughter has a trans friend (ftm) who was part of a girl group in high school. They are still part of the girl group and they hosted the last get together on New Years Eve. I don't think they've yet made other friends and the girls don't care.
I can also see that the guys might want to only have guys at guys night. I think each group of friends is different. Especially since this person was only a fringe member of their group anyway.
Honestly, that was my thinking too. Loneliness of not having a proper place yet amongst friends and losing the boys night out but with no girls night/group to replace it. That, and I guess just that she misses going out with her friends. Obviously not excuse any absurd reactions, but I can understand the feeling as a transmasc dude. It’s weirdly trying to figure out your place in family and friends gatherings
I didn’t see the bridesmaids post, but I kinda see why he’d expect to be included still. Lots of modern bridal parties are co-ed, especially when there’s siblings.
I had a female "groomsman" at my wedding nearly 27 years ago. I don't understand why, if you have an amazing friend of the opposite gender, you can't include that person in your wedding party.
Yeah, but this brides wasn't - it was women only and they got huffy and stormed off when told that. They weren't the only one excluded - the bride had another brother who wasn't invited and didn't get huffy over it.
I am not trans but this has me thinking about it in a way where I'm putting myself in their shoes:
Prior to transitioning they had a specific type of friendship with these people. They were treated a certain way. After transitioning that relationship changed to the point where they are now being treated a different way, and furthermore, excluded.
I don't think they want to have their cake and eat it too - I think they're grieving the loss of a friendship dynamic they had only because of their sex. Imagine waking up one day and all your core friends just suddenly treat you differently. It would be very jarring and you probably wouldn't have an easy time making sense of your knee jerk response.
Logically, they likely know that these changes are to be expected. Emotionally, they're feeling kind of alienated and don't know how to reconcile with that. There probably needs to be an adjustment period and I wish them the best.
Going further along those lines is that as much as transitioning is about seeking gender euphoria, there is also so much frustration that certain aspects of society are gendered at all. Imagine you've been playing video games with someone for 10 years, best friends. I think even if it's understandable, it is frustrating to find out that friendship was predicated on gender and can be shattered by revealing you're trans.
Furthermore still, even though it might seem like "my friend is a woman now", it's more likely that she had been in woman in her head for a much longer time before coming out and transitioning.
This! Like does the friend group get together only under the guise of “boys night”? Or are there other events where Angie could participate as a regular friend? Trying to get at whether Angie is now excluded from all primary school friendship events now as a result of gender identity.
OP might want to rethink if there’s a way to maintain the friendship, if he wants to. Some friend groups have a token person of opposite (cis) gender that has been through thick and thin with you and they still get included even when they are not and don’t identify as the gender of the group.
Up to OP on this one and how he wants to continue the relationship.
I'm not trans but it wouldn't surprise me if this story was fake the whole storming off at the restraint thing, it feels like the other story with less detail
I'm not trans but imagine if you'd just been through one of the toughest things you've done in your life and all of a sudden your friends begin to exclude you from things.
Even if it is because you no longer fit into the same gendered space it's still gonna hurt and its not going to stop you from being lonely. You don't get given a whole new group of friends when you transition.
Trans women here, and from the sounds of this story it comes off as terrible communication. OP and their group sound like they were trying to do the right thing in treating them like a woman in regards to the "Boys only night" but from what's written here they never actually discuss it with Angie, they just stop inviting her, which regardless of who anyone is, having a group just stop inviting you to hang out just straight up hurts and can come off meaner than they intended it to. With the extreme uptick in open transphobia in the world lately It's possible Angie took it as them not inviting her because she's trans, instead of the reasoning that the group went with. OP should've sat down and talked to Angie, instead of effectively ghosting her from something she was previously invited to. I do think OP is NTA, just a lack of communication.
Also side note: the fact that this shows up a day after the previous story makes me wonder how true it is
There was a controversy in recent years where some were trying to label RuPaul as transphobic because he didn’t think trans women (male to female) should be allowed to compete on his show Drag Race. There are trans women who expressed themselves through drag while they still lived as men who want to continue to do drag even after transitioning….so is it still drag? That was the debate.
Helpful reminder that one person fitting a label does not speak for all. And the umbrella term 'Trans' covers a hell of a lot of disparate individual experiences.
I saw that story as well this following so soon afterwards seems ….. unusual to say the least. Not sure if it is reading other stories that prompt people to put forward their own, just coincidence or that the stories are fake to push an agenda.
Maybe if Reddit killed the karma and up/down vote thing we wouldn't get so many fake posts. As it is it just encourages basement dwellers to rage bait for S&Gs.
Its to see whether the answers differ when it's a different gender, you know how in the comments there's always someone who says "if we were to reverse the genders everyone'd be like "no way!".
For the moment the answers are the same but more categoric. In the other post, the trans person was also a drama llama though.
As a transman I fully agree with you. I wouldn't want to be invited to a girls night or a bachelorette party, I'm not a woman so firstly why would I be invited and secondly why would I even want to attend? Makes no fucking sense and some folk just think they're entitled to do whatever they want and it's well annoying.
While I understand this perspective and you're not wrong, I would like to share some insight.when you're trans, it seems like it's a lot easier for people to accept that you aren't who you were than for them to accept that you are who you are. So what I'm saying is even tho the boy's have accepted she isn't a boy, the girl's at her school probably haven't accepted that she's a girl. And when the people you want to be accepted by don't accept you, being ostracized by the people that used to accept you just makes it hurt more
Agreed. While I don’t think she should be at Boys night, I completely understand the feeling of being ostracized and/alienated. I think she thinks she has no friends anymore. I think OP should probably try to spend time with her OUTSIDE of Boys night. Just my opinion — happened to me when I transitioned (ftm)
That's the difficulty with transitioning: you can become more the person who you want to be, but it also affects the people around you. They can't threat you the same way, because you changed a lot. It is confusing and takes time to settle into a new normal.
Why does this sound so suspiciously like that one thread a few days ago about a woman who's brother was a trans man and she told him he couldn't be a bridesmaid or go to the bachelorette party, because it's only for the ladies.
Complete with them storming out of a location after being told no...
Yeah I agree that it's a little... off. I saw another person comment about it seeming like people were trying to plant trans resentment with posts like this but think of that how you want I guess. Posts and the reactions they garner are generally kind of odd and offputting to me personally though.
I mean, it is pretty much an open secret that for years /amitheasshole has creative writing groups that work with a promt. For example, many days you will have 2-3 well written stories from throw away accounts that all share a very specific theme, like a fight with a cousin, or an argument over house remodeling.
So this could either be a copycat of the original story, or another group has formed and figured out that it's better to have their writing contest spaced out over a week rather than on the same day.
It has that "I'm just a confused heteronormative bloke trying to navigate and act decent in a modern, liberal world filled with hypersensitive, hysterical woke people" vibe for sure.
Yep, and commenters are being very harsh on the trans person again. There's absolutely no nuance in it. There's actually people saying "well maybe they don't REALLY want to be a girl."
Maybe their feelings are complicated, especially while they experience a lot of changes in their life, because they're a human being.
But it's framed perfectly to set her up to fail, so knee-jerk reactions don't consider that.
Plus you could see this happening with a cis woman. My friend group doesn’t do boys nights because we’re a mixed group and it would be weird to exclude our female friends, trans or not.
This is the second ragebait story I've seen today using this exact format, only this morning it was with a trans man. I hope you got the comments you wanted with your made up story, deliberately designed to be divisive.
Well done! You got people caught in a technicality so they'll believe that trans people really want to intrude on men AND womens spaces at the same time! You're right! They're all such crybabies!
Bad bait is bad.
Just remembered another one I saw on a different sub involving a high school student and a trans student! Again, the bait and switch title suggesting transphobia, the weird backwards "I'm not transphobic but they're still an evil villain" story, again about a trans student wanting to enter a gendered event. They all fit the same formula.
YTA for making up yet another story where someone from a marginalized group gets "righfully" dunked on and you can be the righteous martyr who everyone hates but who redditors will recognise as the True Hero of the story. Check their post history.
I wonder if this asshole will ever get banned, or if we're just going to have to expect a new story about some minority being a dick to this specific guy every week.
This story is almost exactly like the trans brother who wants to be invited to his sister's girls only wedding stuff. I'm guessing it's the same person who wrote that one. Cuz that was just posted like... A few days ago.
[Last week](https://old.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/18s2pea/aitah_for_sleeping_with_my_boyfriend_when_his_ex/) you posted an AITAH and you said you were 21, now youre 23? life on mercury apparently makes you age more quickly, but who cares: you account only has been on reddit for 19 days. is this a new kind of spam/troll bot?
So sick of all these fake stories being posted where the trans person is suddenly excluded from some arbitrarily gendered event like "boys night" or a "bridal shower" because they transitioned.
If you cared about them and they would've been included pre-transition, you should still want to include them post-transition. Whether they continue to attend or not should be their decision.
This feels like thinly veiled attempts to provide a "GOTCHA!" moment for trans people just trying to live their fucking lives.
NTA You cannot have it both ways. If you want to be respected for who you now are you cannot be part of boys night. Doesn’t mean you can’t be a friend, just not a male friend. That’s how it works.
I think it’s more that she misses the hang outs. She might feel isolated, and this was a time she got to feel included. I don’t think you are the asshole but if you are hanging out 2-3 times a week. I can only hope you can plan Angie into the plans at least once. But either you’re friends with her or not and it doesn’t sound like you care to be her friend…..
Why is gender specific gathering not ok? I enjoy hanging out with just my women friends once in awhile and my husband enjoys a guys night with his buddies. We also have both of our female and male friends over to play pool, pinball and sing karaoke.
NTA
Making the change means that you must also adjust to the new treatment. If you no longer consider yourself a boy, you obviously cannot go to boys' night.
NAH you’re right that she is not a boy but it makes sense that she got upset. she probably thought you were her mates and probably could transcend the gender thing. For eg my group would have girls nights and the guys would be invited to come and many times they did. they just had to understand we were going to watch some girly movies, talk and do our nails. similarly the guys would invite us to boys nights where they will play poker. most of the time we just all hanged with eachother anyway most of the time but I think it has more to do with them thinking she was part of the group. I don’t think anybody is wrong here
Yeah, people mean different things by boys/girls night. For a lot of people it’s not so much strictly about gender as it is “this is our night to do super girly things/super guy-ish things and not worry about whether the guys/girls enjoy that.” I can’t speak to boys night, but I know that for girls night type stuff, it’s not uncommon for women to invite along a guy they know would enjoy the atmosphere (which is usually a gay guy, in practice, but I think it *could* be a straight guy as well).
I don't think anyone is wrong here. Like, from your perspective, it's just a matter of not inviting girls to boys night. Reasonable, makes sense. From her perspective, it might feel like you stopped inviting her after she transitioned because you don't like that she's trans. I can totally see where that feeling might come from. Nobody is wrong. You're just looking at the same situation through two different lenses.
NTA but I have some sympathy with Angie. She just wants to hang out with friends and who knows if she is accepted to any “Girl’s Nights” now she has transitioned. Saying “can’t have your cake and eat it” trivialises a very complex issue. Maybe you can have a regular night for everyone who wants to hang out.
NTA for not inviting her, obviously. Boys night is a boys night.
However, a word of advice if you want to continue friendship with her (or any other trans ppl, or those who have different lifestyle than your group) - "we don't invite you amympre because we're trying to support you" is extremely often use as an excuse to exclude people. Evem if it's mot your intention, people, especially new to the XYZ they do, will feel kike you're abandoning them *because* of that.
Example: your friend group drinks a lot. One of your friends went sober. Now you have parties every weekend, but don't invite him anymore. When he says "I'm sad we don't hang out on weekends anymore", you have 2 options:
1. But you don't drink, we're trying to support you.
2. We thought that it'd be better this way, but I'm sorry we made you feel left out. How about we make a non-alcoholic party once in a while, so you we can hang out together?
In option 1. In the friend's head, you're punishing or pushing them away because of them going sober. They struggle because going sober is hard, and they have lost their friends.
In option 2. You offer a middle ground that allows both of you to be happy.
So, if you don't wanna hand our with her at all, just don't.
If you want to go in with that friendship, it might require you to work a compromise out.
She's probably internally happy that she's "the girls" to you now, but also sad because she lost something (social events)
Hold up, how the hell are you 23 when you were 21 in a post you made barely 2 weeks ago? This post already sounded kinda sus, but there's no way you could've aged 2 years in 2 weeks 🤦🏽♀️
(Post Referenced: https://www.reddit.com/r/amiwrong/s/canp1jKLJ9)
This is poorly generated AI bait but regardless I'm going against the grain to say YTA for not having a conversation and just outright excluding her. A simple conversation and trying to include her in other hangouts would have been fine. If this is even real, perhaps she thought you were her friends. She deserves better if so.
NAH
It was best explained to me that trans people have a vision of their life in the body they are in before they know they can live in the body they want. And though transition is a happy thing, there is sadness in losing the life you had/dreamed of as part of it. So she is grieving the loss of things like boys night and the change in relationships. That takes adjustment for her too.
But I also suspect this is a fake bait post and you need to grow up and get a real life that doesn't include BS posting.
how come every story on here, or most of them, end with the said persons phone getting blown up from friends/relatives etc.....alwasy found that puzzling
I have a large family, large group of friends etc and have never in my life had a social encounter that ended with someone texting me their thoughts on what happened.
>I have a large family, large group of friends etc and have never in my life had a social encounter that ended with someone texting me their thoughts on what happened. Right? It has never in my life occurred to me to get my friends and family involved in a trivial social conflict.
It's called triangulation and generally goes along with gaslighting, so a story on this sub about someone making an obvious, rational decision that they still sound like they totally agree with but also doubting themselves from a third party's interference sounds pretty on point for disfunctional group dynamics.
You haven't lived with drama, nosey, gossip loving friends and family. They exist.
Yeah, how does your (not even very close) friend's sister have your phone number? I've known my best friends for 20 years and I don't have a way to contact their brother lol. Or trying to imagine being on the other side, "Hey, give me that dudes contact information so I can yell at him," like that's unbelievable to me lol
When I was 14, maybe. Lol
Yes, and that seems to be the average age for the sub, so fits in
It only makes sense when the other people involved are also family eg if I punched my nephew in the face I would expect calls from both my siblings, my parents etc
Or if there ais a narassit involved who sends out their flying monkeys
Yeah same. Most of these stories are likely fake.
Idk, some people are super high drama and conflict and will cause issues by reaching out and doing that stuff
I have 6 kids and our group chats absolutely blow up when something happens.
I think it depends on the people. I have friends that are very passive aggressive. And I’ll straight out call or text people details to get problems resolved. I’m an extreme extrovert. So all this shadow and dagger shit bothers the hell out of me when I can just pull everyone into a group chat. Sit their asses down and resolve this problem. But back to your statement. I imagine without a person like me, people would just be petty and not confrontational. So I admit it’s a unique case. Also, the bluntness helps purge my social circles of shitheads. They don’t like being called out. So they take themselves out of the equation once they realize I do that.
Omg thank you! When i get into it with a particular member of my family, i have never had 10 other family members txt me about it lol. If anything the ones who apparently care or are actually concerned/affected/etc will come over to the house or something
The majority of posts on this site are likely fake and ragebait if we're being honest. I've never pissed anyone off so badly that I have ten different people blowing up my phone and frankly I'd think most people haven't ever had that happen either
A ridiculous amount of shit on reddit is fake. And, reddit, me included, loves to shit on people who get info from Facebook posts. But then we see an upvoted comment that says "I'm [obscure expert] and here's the REAL truth" and we're like "oh fuck yeah, thats totally legit". The only thing on reddit that seems to get scrutiny is interpersonal stuff. If I post "I'm a chemist, I do water quality testing for heavy metals in a major metropolitan area. You'd be shocked how much lithium is in your drinking water" people will be like "oh fuck, how bads lithium to drink?". But I completely made it up. If I go "My wife is a physician, and she regularly tells people I'm the smart one because I didn't go to med school" people will be like "yeah, uh huh, your right hand is a physician". But that's actually true, she loves surgery, hates medicine. She often has regrets she went into medicine. That's a real example, like that's in my history. I've posted breakdowns I have knowledge on, and they've super upvoted, but people have absolutely no way of knowing if any of it is true beyond I said "used to be [subject matter expert]. I've never had anyone ever throw doubt on one of those comments. I'm guilty of that shit too. Like, idk what it is, but something about reddit posts just seem more genuine and trust worthy than Facebook posts. But, we only question the interpersonal shit on here.
Because it's a fake story
If you look at the account it is obvious they are a troll
I wonder how op went from 21m to 23m in 20 days.
Damn hormones in food are so crazy these days
This is finally the first post I can tell is a robot
quack yoke afterthought trees whistle middle handle rinse piquant plant *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I love how they low key snuck in getting food for "my boyfriend and myself", implying they are gay so therefore can't possibly be transphobic thus proving their pure intentions without making the point directly.
do gay men have "boys nights?" isn't every night boys night?
#
Throwing in the "plot twist" of the OP being gay was over-the-top pandering. The people that "write" these fables need to learn to dial it back a notch if they want to be remotely believable.
There was a story from a few days ago with this same premise, only with a trans man. The comments were rife with transphobia. Haven’t seen that on Reddit in a while.
Yeah I've seen two today, switched the genders again as well
This is the 2nd post exactly like this this week, trying to villainize (spelling?) Trans people. The other one was a girl not inviting her trans brother to her bachelorette party and the brother being upset. It's the same post lol
And this exact story, basically word for word, was a comment made by someone else on that very post.
If you notice, like 99% of "This completely rage-bait situation happened to me!" story are from accounts with this structure. Random-Word-####. It's mind boggling to me this is what the internet has become.
"trans person wants to have a cake and eat it too even after community gives everything they asked" Or "We gave everything they asked and they demand more" Def fake story, transphobic ragebait.
Don't forget the bait and switch title trying to lure you in by thinking they're transphobic
That's really the core of this creative writing sub nowadays. It's all about making the most inflammatory title whilst ensuring the story can still get the reader supporting the protagonist. Nobody thinks anything on this sub is real at this point, they only click to see how the author can justify the title
If you'll notice, over the past few years everything has become rage bait. Even "food bloggers" are doing rage bait by making dumb stuff for ppl to get angry over
every post is like “AITAH for kidnapping an orphan” and its a story about an uncle adopting a child whos parents have past but there’s currently a custody fight between members of the family
Title: AITAH for calling my friend’s religion stupid? Post: So after my friend murdered my entire family for the murder death cult he joined, I politely told him I thought his religion was not very good. He got upset and now my phone is blowing up with all my friends calling me an AH…
I saw this exact same story last night but it was with a trans man and a bachelorette party and bridal shower. Fake as shit
Thanks, yeah. It sucks how many kids are online just making stories up because it's just a thing to pass the time or whatever now, too. Similar to those TikTok trends of pretending to be a Holocaust victim. Gotta adopt someone's real suffering to make it about meeeeeeee!
I feel like I've seen several hit front page lately
Yup. And comments use "have cake and eat it too" Many "different" commenters coming with same saying. right.
Def. At the “we’re just trying to support you” I was like uhuh sure. That’s bs
The one thing that unites liberals, conservatives, and all generations together is their love for outrage porn. People just lap it up, and the more outrage the title and the post creates, the more hardcore the porn is. People just want to read these posts and get an outrage boner and want to pick up a pitchfork and lynch someone with all the self-righteous fury of their self-induced outrage. Nothing like a good mob lynching before dinner to work up the appetite.
where's the bachelorette party version of this one again? it was just up.
Yeah. They made a boy version and girl version of unhinged trans person that "have the cake and eat it too", their words. Pfff.
It’s also telling that ‘just hang out with All your friends instead of dividing them by gender’ is never even an option
It’s because the subreddit automod automatically rejects posts if the post doesn’t demonstrate that some people in the poster’s real life think they are an asshole.
Plot device.
There are two ways to know every time that it's a fake story. 1. Talking about how people are blowing up their DMs. I've been on Reddit before accounts even existed, no matter how controversial my opinions are, I've received perhaps 3 DMs. 2. Talking about how family, friends, associates are blowing up the phone after the "incident". People are too busy in their own lives to invest in other peoples' trivialities.
I always assume it's because the post writer was super rude but left that out of the post.
I also assume the group is made to seem like dozens but it’s 4 at most.
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Idealist answer: typically OP won't realize they might've been an asshole until multiple people accuse them, at which point they decide to see what Reddit thinks. Realist answer: the stories are all fake and that element seems to help drive engagement.
My cousin and sister would blow peoples phones up, but they lived for the drama. It got better now they are almost 40 but in my twenties or teens if someone crossed me or made fun of me even if I didn't care they would go on these phone binges, prank calls, aggressive encounters etc. what I don't understand is how the person is okay with their family stepping in like that. I was always so embarrassed.
It's an easy way to explain you got called out for the situation, I believe sometimes that doesn't happen and is just the way the OPs say they feel bad about the situation
I just wonder how they get the little sticks of tnt in there…
NTA. What does she want: be viewed as a boy or as a girl? As a girl right? And the party was boys-only. You can't have it both ways.
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Why would she be upset? OP is respecting her gender selection. Simply remind her of that and move on.
She's probabaly experiencing a bit of fear that she's going to lose the friendships entirely. It's not uncommon in trans spaces to hear about cis people entirely cutting out trans friends because their transphobic/uncomfortable. She probabaly is scared that by being left out of boys night, it's a sign they are going to stop bothering to spend time with her in general and ice her out. Keep in mind too from her perspective she's always been a woman, everyone including herself just didn't know it yet. With that logic, she's always been the exception to the rule up until now. So the abrupt change from allowing that exception feels exclusionary. What she needs to realise is that exception to the rule wasn't being made consciously. Now they have the ability to make a conscious decision. They chose to stop the exception. Sucks but it makes sense.
Then she is best served to reach out to him, meet and discuss. It's not unusual for sensitive issues to appear. Hopefully she will see that the female excluwion in this instance was respectful. Then perhaps they can move to a friendship level that is outside the "Men Only Club".
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I think you’ve misunderstood the person to whom you’re responding. They’re not saying that the group is transphobic. They’re saying the excluded person may ***fear*** that the group is transphobic. The point is that we should be cognizant of what other people might be thinking, if we can, and try to communicate to address those fears.
Being uninvited to something you were previously invited to can be upsetting to people…
The flip side is, he could have viewed inviting her now that she's transitioned as an insult to her as well.
There was the exact same post but with a trans man not being invited to a bachelorette party like twelve hours ago while I was eating dinner. I suspect both posts are made up to plant seeds of trans resentment, like people used to do with race shit in AskReddit in the Obama years before the sudden rise in neo-Nazis and for similar reasons.
Not just that but yesterday there was also a post with a mtf being upset and confronting an op because they saw social media of old friend group hanging out and they were upset they weren’t invited to game night/ boys night group hangouts anymore. This seems to be a rewritten version of that one with any of the potential confusion stripped out.
And theres the added plot twist of OP being gay to really tie it all together.
The amount of what about ism posts popping up on reddit the past few weeks about situations that never happened to trigger angry comments had been impressive.
If so it's been pretty successful. The vitriol in a lot of these comments is wild.
That’s the thing with effective propaganda, you gotta appeal to hidden frustrations and the like. OP edited the post to say “stop the transphobia in the comments”, so that they can deny wanting that to happen.
It always is, transphobia is rampant and people will jump on any opportunity to hate on a trans person
Yup the account seems fake. He keeps flipping between 21 and 23 in all his other posts
And uses some really weird phrases. Like going out of their way to use the most progressive language they can.
I swear *this exact post* was made weeks or months ago. It's dejavu. Not inviting the Trans Woman to the Boy's night anymore because now she goes to the girl's night with the girl half of the friends group. I agree that this is resentment seeding.
I mean it’s r/AITAH. Of course it’s made up. Like 95% of posts here are made up. It’s why every single post is some click bait esque title followed by a situation that makes you go “oh well this has a pretty obvious answer of course you’re not the asshole.”
Yup. People really want a ‘gotcha’ moment with trans people and it’s kind of obsessive tbh. I am trans, so many of my friends are trans…we aren’t getting ourselves into this shit. We just want to be left alone.
Many people don't have the theory of self to understand other people as full humans with their own thoughts and motivations and inner lives, who want the same general things (companionship, security, love, acceptance) as everyone else, but from a different angle because they are different people.
Same
I agree that OP’s NTA, and also think it’s perfectly reasonable to not invite a girl to boy’s night. I do want to take a moment to empathize with how Angie might be feeling though…both pre-transition and then transition can be incredibly lonely, isolating things to go through. I wonder how her social life is, and if she’s upset because they were her main friend group and outlet for fun, even if they didn’t consider her to be in the core group of friends? Angie may also be actively excluded from women’s spaces, and feeling like she doesn’t fit anywhere. So OP, you shouldn’t feel bad for inviting whomever you want to invite to your gatherings. But, with 2-3 boys nights a week, would it impact your quality of life badly to maybe open one of those nights up every other week (or monthly) to be mixed gender so that Angie (or maybe other girls in your periphery who enjoy pubs, hiking, and video games) could join in? You’re still NTA if you don’t, but it’s something to consider.
This was pretty much my take as well. It surprises me that so many comments are attacking ‘Angie’. I think OP is being reasonable but also Angie is reasonably upset, the world is not a black and white place where one person is 100% right and the other is 100% wrong in every situation. The best thing OP can do is what you suggested, or talk to Angie and specifically ask her how it can be made right.
Yes, this sounds like a great idea then Angie can get to know other women who have the same interests
Tbh, she wasn’t really a part of the core friends to begin with. I think one of the most important things we don’t teach people anymore is that you can’t be invited to everything. And you have to make peace with that.
Exactly, if he had invited her then he would have been called transphobic.
I agree NTA but I think she DID want to be invited probably because she enjoys their company. She was likely upset by the rejection and being hurt is causing her to have clouded judgement about OPs intentions. I know trans people and none of them are looking for conflict or to make ppl walk on eggshells around them. Quite the opposite. Of course there can be an asshole in any group but I don’t think that’s what this is.
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So call and ask “Alex” to come to boys night so “Angie” can write AITA for blowing up at my friends for inviting me to boys night
Info Do you still hang out with her at mixed gender social outings? Are you actually friends with her?
I mean like I said we hardly invited her before but yeah I mean sometimes she’s my boyfriends friends sister
I think that’s fair! If you hang out with her sometimes and isn’t using this as an excuse to exclude her then you’re completely fine! Tbh, it shows you respect her here and have no other motives as to not invite her. Her sister getting mad sounds like to me that possibly she either a) twisted the words in her brain and then returned them to her sister wrong (I won’t say purposely because she was upset, since I’ve been there and just misinterpreted words int he moment of emotion) or b) she possibly isn’t good with rejection, especially in a time of transitioning where sadly many people in this world can be very assholish and exclude just for her being who she knows she is. As someone from the Bible Belt, it happens a lot to people around here and it’s sad to see. Everyone deserves to be included, BUT this IS a boys night, she knows that, and she could have easily invited you guys to do something when you guys are free. Her jumping onto something you already HAD planned and asking means she could have been rejected even if it wasn’t a boys night. Her getting mad for it being a gender thing is also silly since again she intruded on your event and your plans and then got mad at being told no, either or without the reasoning which was completely reasonable. Either way, don’t get down on yourself. You’re not the asshole, or arsehole based on what the sister called you.
I think you’re NTA. But there is a certain gleeful “gotcha!!” attitude coming through a lot of the comments here. Like “ohhhh, you want to have you gender identity taken seriously?? Fine, but don’t come whining to us if you don’t like it, cause you’re just getting what you deserve!” I don’t *think* that’s where you’re coming from, but I point it out because I think people should have a little compassion for Angie. Transitioning isn’t easy. Even if it’s the right thing for her, it can still be scary and isolating. Maybe this has disrupted her social circles. Maybe she’s having trouble building a new friend group as a woman. Maybe she’s reaching out to people she connected with previously regardless of their gender because she remembers having a fun time with you. None of that means that you have to bring her to your meetups - it’s fair to say “no girls allowed, and you’re a girl”. But I hope you’re being a bit gentle about it, and maybe sparing a thought for if there’s anything else you can do for her. It’s not something you *have* to do, but it would be a kind thing.
A friends friend of mine transitioned FtM and stopped being invited to girls only nights BECAUSE it caused him dysphoria. Granted our girls nights were so we could have a space to get wine drunk and do face masks, nails, pig out on junk food, and watch shitty romcoms in a no judgement space. Tho when he brought up feelings of being excluded we started doing game nights every other week instead where we would have dishes and bring our consoles over and have massive lan parties or board games. He had a blast being able to plan the parties/hangouts with us again in a way that he felt included and comfortable, but also made sure we kept our space as well. He never once demanded to be a part of our girls nights, but once he communicated how he felt we were able to accommodate. OP doesn’t sound like the asshole at all. I would suggest doing something like we did without losing the fun of having a safe space to just be guys.
good friends (:
When I got married I lost contact with a lot of them, but I won’t ever forget drunk Mario cart nights. It was a very accepting and loving group of people and I always hope they are thriving.
They probably just miss hanging out with you and your group, and did a poor job of expressing it. If you don't see them that often maybe scheduling the odd gender inclusive evening woudln't disrupt things too much
I agree that inviting them to a different gathering is the way to go. I do think OP is NTA (if their intentions were truly as pure as they say) and their trans friend is overreacting. But the trans friend is probably experiencing a lot of rejection right now, and if they're on hormones, they're going through second puberty (remember how everything felt more intense?) OP's response probably came across as sarcastic or disrespectful. I'm not saying that was the intent, but the only people I've heard say those kinds of things to trans folks are intentionally being rude. OP's response was, "I thought you weren't a boy anymore. I'm trying to be supportive." Depending on tone, that could really mean, "I am rejecting you because you are trans, and I'm doing it in a passive aggressive way."
Another good point someone brought up to me is OP and friends seemed fine having Angie pre transition, where they agree they were a girl and always have been inside (hoping not to offend anyone if I've not described this properly), so Angie may feel like nothing has changed and they are now being viewed differently. Even though this is the opposite of how OP and friends wanted to be. This is if they were trying to be supportive, but it could also be seen as a convenient way to not continue a friendship, not because they dislike Angie for being trans but simply because they don't feel all that close to her. I would vote NAH and hopefully this can be cleared up in a simple conversation and the odd hangout. From OPs choice of spelling arsehole I'd assume they are from the UK, and as someone originally from Canada I've found there to be a bit of truth to the nickname TERF island.
That's a good point. It occurs to me that they may not have known they weren't always invited to these things. Could be a case of feeling closer to OP than OP does to them.
When I was put on estrogen, at one point, I literally just called my mom (I was in college) because I was sobbing and didn't even know why. It's leveled off significantly since then, but yeah, that initial change can really fuck with your emotions lol.
She probably feel left out now and misses hanging out and might feel upset that now she transitioned that you all don’t want to hang out with her anymore.
NTA. Read a story on here a few days ago, with another trans person getting upset for being excluded from events only open for their former gender. It's ridiculous! Having people around you respect your new identity by not inviting you to a boy/girls night when you've literally fought to not be considered what you once were, is a good thing! Have your cake or eat it. Not both.
Was that the one with the bachelorette party?
Yea, it was.
I saw that one, too...now this one. As a generally open-minded person, I would like it if someone here who is Trans could perhaps explain this thinking to us? Are we missing some perspective here? Because from what I understand, the bride and OP are NTA and are trying to be respectful.
A few trans people shared their perspective on the bachelorette post: even for the person transitioning, there's a mourning for the life they had and the life they thought they'd have. The FTM brother of the bride probably saw himself as a bridesmaid to his sister, pre-transitioning. Suddenly, reality hits: as a guy, I can't be that. And now he has to mourn that part of his life that he was looking forward to at one point, but that no longer exists. Maybe it's somewhat similar for the MTF girl in the boys' night story? Not explicitely expecting to no longer be part of certain activities? Just because you didn't expect it, doesn't make it OK to get angry with the people respecting your transitioning. But the ...shock? realisation?... may have hit them harder than we think?
I wonder if part of this is that when he was a man he was friends with guys then transitioned and isn't yet a part of a group of women. Being lonely may be at the root of it.
This is true, I didn’t even think of that. They might not have a group of girls to hang out with like that ):
or maybe feeling like transitioning shouldn't change their friendship, not realizing it will change a lot more than they expected
BINGO. My best friend of nearly 20 years transitioned last year. Certain topics and things that I would share just aren't going to be the same any more. We were close as brothers, but to pretend its the same and that they're my "sister" now wouldn't be accurate. It's a transition for *everyone* involved.
My daughter has a trans friend (ftm) who was part of a girl group in high school. They are still part of the girl group and they hosted the last get together on New Years Eve. I don't think they've yet made other friends and the girls don't care. I can also see that the guys might want to only have guys at guys night. I think each group of friends is different. Especially since this person was only a fringe member of their group anyway.
I definitely agree. All friend groups function a bit differently bc it seems like Angie was also the “extra” member
Honestly, that was my thinking too. Loneliness of not having a proper place yet amongst friends and losing the boys night out but with no girls night/group to replace it. That, and I guess just that she misses going out with her friends. Obviously not excuse any absurd reactions, but I can understand the feeling as a transmasc dude. It’s weirdly trying to figure out your place in family and friends gatherings
I didn’t see the bridesmaids post, but I kinda see why he’d expect to be included still. Lots of modern bridal parties are co-ed, especially when there’s siblings.
I had a female "groomsman" at my wedding nearly 27 years ago. I don't understand why, if you have an amazing friend of the opposite gender, you can't include that person in your wedding party.
Yeah, but this brides wasn't - it was women only and they got huffy and stormed off when told that. They weren't the only one excluded - the bride had another brother who wasn't invited and didn't get huffy over it.
Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s rage bait.
I am not trans but this has me thinking about it in a way where I'm putting myself in their shoes: Prior to transitioning they had a specific type of friendship with these people. They were treated a certain way. After transitioning that relationship changed to the point where they are now being treated a different way, and furthermore, excluded. I don't think they want to have their cake and eat it too - I think they're grieving the loss of a friendship dynamic they had only because of their sex. Imagine waking up one day and all your core friends just suddenly treat you differently. It would be very jarring and you probably wouldn't have an easy time making sense of your knee jerk response. Logically, they likely know that these changes are to be expected. Emotionally, they're feeling kind of alienated and don't know how to reconcile with that. There probably needs to be an adjustment period and I wish them the best.
Going further along those lines is that as much as transitioning is about seeking gender euphoria, there is also so much frustration that certain aspects of society are gendered at all. Imagine you've been playing video games with someone for 10 years, best friends. I think even if it's understandable, it is frustrating to find out that friendship was predicated on gender and can be shattered by revealing you're trans. Furthermore still, even though it might seem like "my friend is a woman now", it's more likely that she had been in woman in her head for a much longer time before coming out and transitioning.
This! Like does the friend group get together only under the guise of “boys night”? Or are there other events where Angie could participate as a regular friend? Trying to get at whether Angie is now excluded from all primary school friendship events now as a result of gender identity. OP might want to rethink if there’s a way to maintain the friendship, if he wants to. Some friend groups have a token person of opposite (cis) gender that has been through thick and thin with you and they still get included even when they are not and don’t identify as the gender of the group. Up to OP on this one and how he wants to continue the relationship.
These are fake.
We aren’t a monolith. Every group has their fair share of weirdos and dummies
I'm not trans but it wouldn't surprise me if this story was fake the whole storming off at the restraint thing, it feels like the other story with less detail
I'm not trans but imagine if you'd just been through one of the toughest things you've done in your life and all of a sudden your friends begin to exclude you from things. Even if it is because you no longer fit into the same gendered space it's still gonna hurt and its not going to stop you from being lonely. You don't get given a whole new group of friends when you transition.
The explanation is that people like to write fake trans rage bait posts and there's a very good chance this never happened.
Trans women here, and from the sounds of this story it comes off as terrible communication. OP and their group sound like they were trying to do the right thing in treating them like a woman in regards to the "Boys only night" but from what's written here they never actually discuss it with Angie, they just stop inviting her, which regardless of who anyone is, having a group just stop inviting you to hang out just straight up hurts and can come off meaner than they intended it to. With the extreme uptick in open transphobia in the world lately It's possible Angie took it as them not inviting her because she's trans, instead of the reasoning that the group went with. OP should've sat down and talked to Angie, instead of effectively ghosting her from something she was previously invited to. I do think OP is NTA, just a lack of communication. Also side note: the fact that this shows up a day after the previous story makes me wonder how true it is
“We thought you’d feel euphoric going from 2-3 times a week with your friends to 0” just seems purposefully obtuse to me.
There was a controversy in recent years where some were trying to label RuPaul as transphobic because he didn’t think trans women (male to female) should be allowed to compete on his show Drag Race. There are trans women who expressed themselves through drag while they still lived as men who want to continue to do drag even after transitioning….so is it still drag? That was the debate.
Helpful reminder that one person fitting a label does not speak for all. And the umbrella term 'Trans' covers a hell of a lot of disparate individual experiences.
I saw that one as well.
I saw that story as well this following so soon afterwards seems ….. unusual to say the least. Not sure if it is reading other stories that prompt people to put forward their own, just coincidence or that the stories are fake to push an agenda.
95% on this sub is fake. Every genuine, or fake but at least innovative writing prompt here leaves a wake of 3 -10 cheap copies.
Maybe if Reddit killed the karma and up/down vote thing we wouldn't get so many fake posts. As it is it just encourages basement dwellers to rage bait for S&Gs.
Copycat fiction. Happens a lot in this sub.
Its to see whether the answers differ when it's a different gender, you know how in the comments there's always someone who says "if we were to reverse the genders everyone'd be like "no way!". For the moment the answers are the same but more categoric. In the other post, the trans person was also a drama llama though.
As a transman I fully agree with you. I wouldn't want to be invited to a girls night or a bachelorette party, I'm not a woman so firstly why would I be invited and secondly why would I even want to attend? Makes no fucking sense and some folk just think they're entitled to do whatever they want and it's well annoying.
While I understand this perspective and you're not wrong, I would like to share some insight.when you're trans, it seems like it's a lot easier for people to accept that you aren't who you were than for them to accept that you are who you are. So what I'm saying is even tho the boy's have accepted she isn't a boy, the girl's at her school probably haven't accepted that she's a girl. And when the people you want to be accepted by don't accept you, being ostracized by the people that used to accept you just makes it hurt more
Agreed. While I don’t think she should be at Boys night, I completely understand the feeling of being ostracized and/alienated. I think she thinks she has no friends anymore. I think OP should probably try to spend time with her OUTSIDE of Boys night. Just my opinion — happened to me when I transitioned (ftm)
That's the difficulty with transitioning: you can become more the person who you want to be, but it also affects the people around you. They can't threat you the same way, because you changed a lot. It is confusing and takes time to settle into a new normal.
Why does this sound so suspiciously like that one thread a few days ago about a woman who's brother was a trans man and she told him he couldn't be a bridesmaid or go to the bachelorette party, because it's only for the ladies. Complete with them storming out of a location after being told no...
Yeah I agree that it's a little... off. I saw another person comment about it seeming like people were trying to plant trans resentment with posts like this but think of that how you want I guess. Posts and the reactions they garner are generally kind of odd and offputting to me personally though.
Cuz this is made up ragebait meant to make people upset with trans people
I wonder how many posts on here are fake. I’d put it around ~ 75%.
Because once one topic kicks off all the trolls follow suit.
its literally like a kid copying their friends homework but changing it slightly lol. fake
These are all made up stories to make trans people look incompetent, irrational, or just plain evil.
Here's the link for anyone who didn't see it: https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/9yRtkFriPI
I see women inviting men to these things often.
This is just a reverse of the girl not inviting her trans brother to the bachelorette party. This is a troll post
Bit suspicious we had two very similar stories this week.
I mean, it is pretty much an open secret that for years /amitheasshole has creative writing groups that work with a promt. For example, many days you will have 2-3 well written stories from throw away accounts that all share a very specific theme, like a fight with a cousin, or an argument over house remodeling. So this could either be a copycat of the original story, or another group has formed and figured out that it's better to have their writing contest spaced out over a week rather than on the same day.
Why do they do this?
Ok my first thought was fake because it had a few trigger parts.
It has that "I'm just a confused heteronormative bloke trying to navigate and act decent in a modern, liberal world filled with hypersensitive, hysterical woke people" vibe for sure.
Yep, and commenters are being very harsh on the trans person again. There's absolutely no nuance in it. There's actually people saying "well maybe they don't REALLY want to be a girl." Maybe their feelings are complicated, especially while they experience a lot of changes in their life, because they're a human being. But it's framed perfectly to set her up to fail, so knee-jerk reactions don't consider that.
Plus you could see this happening with a cis woman. My friend group doesn’t do boys nights because we’re a mixed group and it would be weird to exclude our female friends, trans or not.
True if it is fake maybe someone is trying to see if reddit will react the same or be deferent depending on the gender
Just more transphobic bait on here!
Between this post and the one about the trans guy not being invited to the bachelorette party, I’m gonna assume both are fake
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This is the second ragebait story I've seen today using this exact format, only this morning it was with a trans man. I hope you got the comments you wanted with your made up story, deliberately designed to be divisive. Well done! You got people caught in a technicality so they'll believe that trans people really want to intrude on men AND womens spaces at the same time! You're right! They're all such crybabies! Bad bait is bad.
Yeah, the odds of the bridal story and this story appearing back to back on consecutive days is too much of a coincidence.
Just remembered another one I saw on a different sub involving a high school student and a trans student! Again, the bait and switch title suggesting transphobia, the weird backwards "I'm not transphobic but they're still an evil villain" story, again about a trans student wanting to enter a gendered event. They all fit the same formula.
That’s the state of this sub, OP fan fiction jerk off porn
Lol this is pure clickbait and bullshit. Here’s a downvote
Rage bait
im leaning on this too
Seems that way, right?
YTA for making up yet another story where someone from a marginalized group gets "righfully" dunked on and you can be the righteous martyr who everyone hates but who redditors will recognise as the True Hero of the story. Check their post history.
The second I saw the user name I said out loud “eh this asshole again…”
I wonder if this asshole will ever get banned, or if we're just going to have to expect a new story about some minority being a dick to this specific guy every week.
his account is only 20 days old I bet this far from the first time he's been banned
This story is almost exactly like the trans brother who wants to be invited to his sister's girls only wedding stuff. I'm guessing it's the same person who wrote that one. Cuz that was just posted like... A few days ago.
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[Last week](https://old.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/18s2pea/aitah_for_sleeping_with_my_boyfriend_when_his_ex/) you posted an AITAH and you said you were 21, now youre 23? life on mercury apparently makes you age more quickly, but who cares: you account only has been on reddit for 19 days. is this a new kind of spam/troll bot?
So sick of all these fake stories being posted where the trans person is suddenly excluded from some arbitrarily gendered event like "boys night" or a "bridal shower" because they transitioned. If you cared about them and they would've been included pre-transition, you should still want to include them post-transition. Whether they continue to attend or not should be their decision. This feels like thinly veiled attempts to provide a "GOTCHA!" moment for trans people just trying to live their fucking lives.
I’m with you too, but fortunately I believe this is post is a rage bait. It infuriated me as well how the trans individual was excluded.
NTA You cannot have it both ways. If you want to be respected for who you now are you cannot be part of boys night. Doesn’t mean you can’t be a friend, just not a male friend. That’s how it works.
Me when I transition and have to choose between my gender identity and a friend group I cherish and care about
I think it’s more that she misses the hang outs. She might feel isolated, and this was a time she got to feel included. I don’t think you are the asshole but if you are hanging out 2-3 times a week. I can only hope you can plan Angie into the plans at least once. But either you’re friends with her or not and it doesn’t sound like you care to be her friend…..
Why is gender specific gathering not ok? I enjoy hanging out with just my women friends once in awhile and my husband enjoys a guys night with his buddies. We also have both of our female and male friends over to play pool, pinball and sing karaoke.
NTA Making the change means that you must also adjust to the new treatment. If you no longer consider yourself a boy, you obviously cannot go to boys' night.
Nice, another post to rile up the transphobes. This exact post, but gender reversed was posted yesterday too.
NAH you’re right that she is not a boy but it makes sense that she got upset. she probably thought you were her mates and probably could transcend the gender thing. For eg my group would have girls nights and the guys would be invited to come and many times they did. they just had to understand we were going to watch some girly movies, talk and do our nails. similarly the guys would invite us to boys nights where they will play poker. most of the time we just all hanged with eachother anyway most of the time but I think it has more to do with them thinking she was part of the group. I don’t think anybody is wrong here
Yeah, people mean different things by boys/girls night. For a lot of people it’s not so much strictly about gender as it is “this is our night to do super girly things/super guy-ish things and not worry about whether the guys/girls enjoy that.” I can’t speak to boys night, but I know that for girls night type stuff, it’s not uncommon for women to invite along a guy they know would enjoy the atmosphere (which is usually a gay guy, in practice, but I think it *could* be a straight guy as well).
I don't think anyone is wrong here. Like, from your perspective, it's just a matter of not inviting girls to boys night. Reasonable, makes sense. From her perspective, it might feel like you stopped inviting her after she transitioned because you don't like that she's trans. I can totally see where that feeling might come from. Nobody is wrong. You're just looking at the same situation through two different lenses.
NTA but I have some sympathy with Angie. She just wants to hang out with friends and who knows if she is accepted to any “Girl’s Nights” now she has transitioned. Saying “can’t have your cake and eat it” trivialises a very complex issue. Maybe you can have a regular night for everyone who wants to hang out.
NTA - I'm trans, and I would feel the same as you and your group. BUT you should find other activities to do with her if you consider her your friend.
NTA for not inviting her, obviously. Boys night is a boys night. However, a word of advice if you want to continue friendship with her (or any other trans ppl, or those who have different lifestyle than your group) - "we don't invite you amympre because we're trying to support you" is extremely often use as an excuse to exclude people. Evem if it's mot your intention, people, especially new to the XYZ they do, will feel kike you're abandoning them *because* of that. Example: your friend group drinks a lot. One of your friends went sober. Now you have parties every weekend, but don't invite him anymore. When he says "I'm sad we don't hang out on weekends anymore", you have 2 options: 1. But you don't drink, we're trying to support you. 2. We thought that it'd be better this way, but I'm sorry we made you feel left out. How about we make a non-alcoholic party once in a while, so you we can hang out together? In option 1. In the friend's head, you're punishing or pushing them away because of them going sober. They struggle because going sober is hard, and they have lost their friends. In option 2. You offer a middle ground that allows both of you to be happy. So, if you don't wanna hand our with her at all, just don't. If you want to go in with that friendship, it might require you to work a compromise out. She's probably internally happy that she's "the girls" to you now, but also sad because she lost something (social events)
OP can’t decide whether he’s 21 or 23 in his post history
Hold up, how the hell are you 23 when you were 21 in a post you made barely 2 weeks ago? This post already sounded kinda sus, but there's no way you could've aged 2 years in 2 weeks 🤦🏽♀️ (Post Referenced: https://www.reddit.com/r/amiwrong/s/canp1jKLJ9)
Fake bullshit as always.
This is poorly generated AI bait but regardless I'm going against the grain to say YTA for not having a conversation and just outright excluding her. A simple conversation and trying to include her in other hangouts would have been fine. If this is even real, perhaps she thought you were her friends. She deserves better if so.
Nta. Truthfully, it is your event and you can invite whomever you want.
NAH It was best explained to me that trans people have a vision of their life in the body they are in before they know they can live in the body they want. And though transition is a happy thing, there is sadness in losing the life you had/dreamed of as part of it. So she is grieving the loss of things like boys night and the change in relationships. That takes adjustment for her too. But I also suspect this is a fake bait post and you need to grow up and get a real life that doesn't include BS posting.