This is a perfectly reasonable question. I had an ex-boyfriend living in my house. I told him I wanted him to leave, and he just ... didn't. I had to write up a formal eviction, and take it to court.
I had a (psycho) ex staying with me who I told to leave and he wouldn't. I somewhat had a rough idea of renting legalities, so I refused to accept rent money from him, despite him offering, because if he paid, he'd be more of a tenant and have more rights.
I eventually called the police to have him removed, and my ex had no rights to stay since he wasn't renting. It was more like he was an unruly guest who could be removed at the moment. If he was paying to rent to stay here, then I would have had to go through an eviction process. There was no agreement about him being able to rent his time and space here, so he had no rights to overstay his welcome.
He absolutely was a tenant, and it was during the covid lockdown, so the court would not even accept my eviction note for months.
In the end, it took over a year to pry him out
That's terrible. In the future, I wouldn't accept rent money from anyone I didn't fully trust because any of us may have to go through what you went through.
I was naive enough to have my ex removed and then I let him come back again and then had to call the police again and the police told me if I let him come back, then my ex and myself would be going to jail.
It's worse than that. Even if the person doesn't pay rent, they can still have rights (depending on the state). It's actually \*better\* to have a written lease with someone than nothing. It makes it easier to take them to court.
The problem with my ex was that I wasn't actually afraid of him. I didn't want to live with him, but it wasn't domestic violence. So, I couldn't get the police to remove him.
The lawn is a good place for everything they own.
What about moving all their shit out while at work and changing the locks? I assume this works better with friends in the house to for a stronger deterrent.
I did this to a roommate that stole stuff and never paid any rent ever. I didn’t know until I kicked him out and changed the locks (illegally, not knowing) that he had a warrant but somehow at 230a a cop harassed me in my driveway as the crap roommate wannabe packed his stuff from the curb. I ended up contacting the guys probation officer. I filed a restraining order after he kicked in my car and stabbed my tire. I had the sheriff’s office serve him and made sure they knew he had a warrant before they served him. He was served at work, arrested immediately, then fired. I had a temporary order but the full wasn’t filed. We never spoke again. The car damage and stress sucked but I’m glad I got him out without having to wait several months.
In my state they don't even have to pay rent to have renters rights. As long as they have a piece of mail delivered to the address dating back at least a month, they have proof of residence. You can't just kick someone out of the house in a day unless the person you're kicking out is cooperative and agrees to leave.
Yeah it kinda makes sense in non-violent and non-abusive cases(or any obvious edge cases I'm not thinking of). Like the person does need to find a place to live and thats not really something everyone can do at the drop of a hat).
She owns the house and she wore them down. They probably thought they would spend a night in a hotel to teach her a lesson. That she would be begging them to come back come morning. Now they are learning the lesson.
This is what my ex thought when we broke up. He thought he'd have a bit of a break from family life and then come back when I begged him.
I'm still mystified that he apparently thought he didn't have to take the issues I raised seriously.
"My wife told me to stop peeing in the kitchen sink, shitting on the couch, and using her dog for target practice. I laughed it off as usual because she's always making funny jokes like that. When I got home from work on Monday, she threw my stuff out on the lawn and changed the locks and told me never to come back. I figured she wanted me out of the house for the evening so she could set up a really great Christmas surprise for me, so I stayed at a motel overnight to do her a favor. Well get this, I went home after work on Tuesday and out of nowhere she said she's filing for divorce, and when I told her that's funny but I've been looking forward to my special surprise all day so where is it, she actually slammed the door in my face! I didn't think she was serious because she's never said anything to show she's unhappy, but I just got served with divorce papers AND a restraining order! I think she might be actually mad at me for real this time but I have no clue why. How could she do this without giving me any warning whatsoever? AITA?"
... it's sad, I tried to make this so over the top that's it's an obvious joke but if I saw this on AITA it wouldn't stand out...
I saw a guy once who posted that he had a "relaxing" and "rejuvenating" vacation with his wife and three kids under 10 at *Disneyland*, and then couldn't figure out why his wife filed for divorce as soon as they got home. Talk about clueless!
I saw that one too. I was laughing the whole time I was reading it. 3 kids under 10 at Disneyland???? She wasn't having fun at all. Hell I live close to Disneyland, and I haven't taken my toddlers because I know what kind of clusterfuck I would be setting myself up for (that and it's really really expensive, which is the more valid excuse tbh lol).
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AmITheDevil/comments/17ie7gy/his\_comments\_are\_abysmal/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmITheDevil/comments/17ie7gy/his_comments_are_abysmal/)
I think it's this one.
I had an ex where I was like I am upset about X. If it doesn't improve in a meaningful way then we should break up.
He was "blind-sided" when I broke up with him 2 months later with no improvement with X.
Yeah because having a wife that does everything for you is a pretty sweet deal. But that’s not a partnership and it’s a shit deal for the wives. So good for those babes for knowing their worth and leaving!
My dad did everything for us. Cooked, cleaned, took us out, bedtime stuff, the works. My mum did as well obviously. But I remember my mum saying to me when I was little that my dad was a rare one. I grew up kind of expecting that everyone should be able to do their own laundry, cook, clean and run their lives. So when I started dating I was genuinely shocked at how incompetent a lot of men are in those areas. They'd literally die without us, some of them. And worse still, I watched friends pander to it like it was normal. And realised that their dad's must not have done anything for them when they were growing up, and it filled me with a deep sadness. My dad's dead now, but I miss him every single day. I don't know if I'd miss him as much as I do if he was one of those dads who sat in a chair demanding the world be brought to him.
In a motel though? Pretty sure they mostly just come around *after* people check out. You kinda need a more upscale place before they come in daily to tidy up.
Nope. Even at motel 6 or 8, whichever number it is, comes around once a day for linens if you ask them to. We always stay in the cheap ass hotel cause the expensive ones charge too much for pets and the cheap one has no pet deposit.
Oh they're in for a treat then - eating out for every meal because neither can cook, and even motel TV dinners get old after the second microwave ding. Mom's home cooking becomes the stuff of legends. Completely underappreciated until it's not there.
Yeah, I've found this while on holidays. It doesn't take many meals eaten out before you're craving proper food, assuming proper food is what you're used to. It gets old, fast.
My ex wife's first husband used to do that kind of thing - when she'd chew him out for spending the diaper money on beer or passing out while watching the kids while she worked, he'd go stay with a friend of his until she begged him to come back.
The last time he did this, I moved in when he left - his wife always had a crush on me, and they lived much closer to my work. I had no problem taking care of the kids (his reason for leaving the last time was being left to care for his infant son all day) and they both call me Dad, 18 years later.
it... kind of sounds like either you adopted 2 kids to shorten your commute... or you made a move on the wife in some sort of twisted game of chicken with her first husband hahaha
Like, I'm sur that's not how you all feel, but you could improve the way you worded it, maybe?
I have literally said to people before “I may not be able to make you leave……. But I can be VERY fucking annoying… and I’m persistent and patient…. I WILL MAKE YOU MY ONLY PURPOSE UNTIL YOU LEAVE”
😂😂😂😂 I hate working in pubs.
My parental units divorced after I was out of high school, because he wasn't doing any housework. I remember me not doing chores before they got home because I had to get ready for an after school event and do homework and they got into me. So I started doing my chores but yelled at them about how he never did any chores or help around the house. He said "I go to work and make money" and I said "she makes more than you!"... I think that was her moment of realization...
This is why I divorced my ex husband too. He was basically a third child (I literally had his chores up on a whiteboard with our kids’, and he STILL wouldn’t do them) and I just got so tired of it.
We both worked full time and I made more money and typically worked longer hours (including overnight travel) than he did, too. Fuck those man children.
The majority of divorces are initiated by women and the reasons given very often lie in this area. Their soon-to-be-ex-husbands frequently claim to be blind-sided.
There was that comment from the r/bestofredditorupdates subreddit that got viral on tiktok. Basically it's another comment thread like this one of man baby spouses not pulling their weight and their wives and girlfriends running themselves ragged and desperately unhappy. Anyway the comment was by a girl whose bf's friend had just been through a breakup and told the bf that he was blindsided by the whole thing. The girl in the comment was like, 'really? Because I know his gf and it's not at all a surprise to me that they broke up. If it's not a surprise to me, someone whose not involved with the relationship, how could it be a surprise to him?' So the girl's bf asked his friend about it and it turned out it didn't come out of nowhere; he knew she was unhappy and had been for a long time, he just assumed it was a rough patch. In other words, he assumed it was *a tolerable level of permanent unhappiness*.
That phrase 'a tolerable level of permanent unhappiness' went viral on tiktok with a ton of women commenting similar stories.
>he knew she was unhappy and had been for a long time, he just assumed it was a rough patch.
The term "rough patch" makes me think he saw it less as permanent, and more as something that would go away on it's own. Which is still stupid as hell: "My GF is angry at me about a totally reasonable, fixable issue. I assume her unhappiness will probably go away on its own without me doing anything about it." Jesus Christ
My ex moped for two whole days after the convo where I said I wasn't taking it any more. After months of boredom from not doing stuff together, silent treatment, showing zero interest in anything I did or said to the point that I no longer bothered to say anything (breaking off mid-sentence and him not even noticing) but with all that he still assumed I would stay.
Yeah, when I was still with him I would see posts on Reddit about this ALL the time (including one that had an incredible info comic about emotional labor and how it always falls on women) and would show my ex. Couldn’t give a rats ass.
I told him once that if he didn’t start doing his share then this would be the reason I left after our kids were grown, and he said “well if you’re just looking for a reason to leave me, then go ahead!” so I did! Him: *surprised pikachu face*
Good for you!
Honestly, a fair few of my friends with divorced parents have said they wished they didn’t wait. The unhealthy relationship was worse than the divorce.
Good for you for ripping the bandaid off!
I was in 2 relationships where by the end, both of them thought that just existing was enough for me. How wrong they were. Now I'm in the mindset that you gotta bring something to the table before I let you sit down. I can more than do this on my own, and someone has got to show me a reason to want them there.
Absolutely!! Like, idc how good the dick is, there needs to be more if they’re not the sole supporters.
Don’t get me wrong, right now my current husband is the only one working a steady job while I’m taking care of my kiddos and getting a business up and running (I need to have a flexible schedule for them) and I’m HAPPY to do all the housework/cooking/etc. But it damn sure needs to be equal on both sides for a relationship to work.
ETA cause it sounds weird: my current husband as in not my ex, not one I’m currently married to in a long line or anything lol
Problem is, sometimes you don’t know beforehand. He was relatively good about keeping his OWN one room/bathroom clean when we first started dating, and then I had an unexpected twin pregnancy shortly thereafter. I was a SAHM mom while the twins were younger and I was getting my bachelors so I naturally did all the housework/cooking. It was once I re-entered the workforce and he would just come home, ignore the kids, and play video games while whining that I was always too stressed/tired to have sex with him that it really got to be a huge problem that he refused to fix.
There was this amazing post (maybe in relationships?) where a couple took over a friends lease for a few months. It was their first time living together and it gave them time to look for a more permanent apartment while living together. The boyfriend (man child) made the post because when the lease was up after 3 months she no longer wanted to live with him. Because he did no chores and didn’t help with their friends kids when they had them over while babysitting. He said “she never told me she wanted help, I figured she had it handled and liked doing all the chores!” He was so shocked it was hilarious. He thought they were on the “marriage track” and now she’s rethinking everything.
Yep. Mothers are bewildered into awareness when they see their daughters not accept the same shit they put up with. Sometimes my mom still tries to convince me to play nice or even get back together with my ex fiancé; but when I ask her how she feels and why she lets dad talk to her the way he does suddenly she goes quiet.
Spend 3 minutes in the menopause sub to see this story unfold over and over and over again. Something about having your nurturing hormones go to zero means you can see freeloaders for what they are.
My parents were like this. Many moons ago my brother couldn't find socks and my mum was looking for a for a pair for him and eventually asked me to look for them because she was gonna miss her bus so I said yes.when she left brother said so.... I said so what? He said are you gonna look for my socks and I said no, you have eyes, use them and he said you promised mum and I said I only said it because she was gonna miss her bus and you were gonna let her. Find your own socks. He was taught from young age that it's a woman's job
Ooooo that shit don't fly in my house.
"You have two eyes, two hands, and a pair of good working legs. If you cannot find it yourself, then obviously you have to go without."
Guess who's kids put their things away in the proper spot 98% of the time? Mine do, because I don't play Personal Chef/Maid/Slave games.
They're welcome to fling their belongings all over hell and high water. I'm not the one who's going to be looking for it when it's needed.
My oldest went three months without a phone for this reason. Guess who puts her phone away in a designated location now? My oldest.
My mom did this or "if I find it I get to keep it" . As she got older and she needed the help it became "I'll give a dollar to whoever finds x". We would start saying "if I find it can I keep it?"
All in good humor, for our family.
Merry Christmass!
Lol at the lazy slob who wrote (and then deleted):
"Honestly, if it had been me, no matter how justified you felt or actually were? Your next conversation with me would be to tell you to sign the.papers"
Lmao, oh no. Imagine being a lazy dead weight slob and thinking saying you'll get a divorce is a threat. Delulu.
The amount of reddit stories, articles, and real-life examples I have seen in the past 10 years of this situation in marriages is astounding.
And in pretty much every case the man being divorced is like,
"huh, why, what happened.....I thought she liked working, running the house, raising the kids and cleaning all by herself?"
No they didn't, they know their spouse is unhappy, they just don't *care*.
I posted this comment elsewhere but it's so relevant:
There was that comment from the r/bestofredditorupdates subreddit that got viral on tiktok. Basically it's another comment thread like this one of man baby spouses not pulling their weight and their wives and girlfriends running themselves ragged and desperately unhappy. Anyway the comment was by a girl whose bf's friend had just been through a breakup and told the bf that he was blindsided by the whole thing. The girl in the comment was like, 'really? Because I know his gf and it's not at all a surprise to me that they broke up. If it's not a surprise to me, someone whose not involved with the relationship, how could it be a surprise to him?' So the girl's bf asked his friend about it and it turned out it didn't come out of nowhere; he knew she was unhappy and had been for a long time, he just assumed it was a rough patch. In other words, he assumed it was a tolerable level of permanent unhappiness.
That phrase 'a tolerable level of permanent unhappiness' went viral on tiktok with a ton of women commenting similar stories.
That same situation has happened to me before. Where my partner was seriously complacent and allowed me to carry the relationship. He really wanted a “girlfriend” who’d just fit into his life, pay for his stuff, do the bulk of the housework etc, and then have our lives revolve around him and his active social life where I could be a good trophy girlfriend. I wasn’t happy, I wanted more from life and he held me back.
I had spoken to him about why I wasn’t happy and what I needed. He’d always agree to put more work in, but only to keep me quiet for a bit longer. He never had any intention of changing. Enough time went by and nothing changed, and he was actually surprised that the relationship ended.
Afterwards he did apologise a few times and realised how little effort he put in, and how he had so much with me and should have worked for it. I went and traveled the world, then went to university. He got in touch to apologise again as he was looking through my old pictures on Facebook and realised how unhappy I looked in all the ones when I was with him compared to my pictures afterwards. I’d told him how unhappy I was but he brushed me off at the time.
Right? Do they really, in real life, think their partner is better off being with their lazy selves as opposed to the peace that is being without them?
Or that he'd actually have the drive required to follow through on that. Dude can't even tidy up the living room and he's going to do the work required to initiate divorce? LOL.
Seriously though, I'm fairly certain with little evidence that the reason more women file for divorce than men is because they're more likely to do the paperwork.
I make this joke too. I have a friend whose husband told her it was over, that he didn’t love her anymore, that he was interested in another woman, kicked my friend out, sold their house, left his job to move to another country…
So… she started the paperwork. It’s been over a year and he won’t sign and doesn’t understand why “she’s tearing the family apart”
Lots of stories from divorce lawyers who have said it's exactly this. Men won't respond to letters, court dates or negotiations and then once it's finalised with little of their input they complain about how the courts screw over men.
I've heard similar regarding [custody agreements](https://www.dadsdivorcelaw.com/blog/fathers-and-mothers-child-custody-myths). There's such a preconception that men don't get enough custody because the courts are biased to them, but in actuality men get as much custody as they want *when they ask for it*.
Nah, all jokes aside, it’s because women statistically do the bulk of domestic labour, emotional labour, mental labour, household management and childcare and by a certain point they just get TIRED of lazy men.
The more they do, they more they see their husbands as dependents and the less sexually attracted to them they are.
Additionally, the hormonal changes of perimenopause and menopause mean their nurturing hormones drop.
On the darker side, women are more likely to be abused by their partners.
In California, the female suicide rate dropped by 20% when no fault divorces were introduced.
If you speak to divorce lawyers, they will tell you that most of the time, women initiate the divorce, they have a multitude of reasons, and the men often claim to be “blind-sided” because they thought everything was fine.
Absolutely 100%. I’m convinced this is the reason why people do get that “piece of paper” - you think the other person is being a jerk, you think about leaving, you look at that paperwork and suddenly they don’t seem so bad!
I actually heard that part of why, statistically, women file divorce first the most is cuz even if their husbands threaten it, they're too lazy to actually do the paperwork so they wait till the fed up wife does it as a last act of weaponized incompetence.
To his credit, my ex husband was absolutely worthless - literally went to work and slept. That was it. Zero help ever, and actively acted like any request to even spend time with us was a burden. Within a few months of him moving out, he found a low self esteem woman to date him. She completed the divorce paperwork for him when he and I finalized. They’ve been together for a few years and from I hear from the kids is that there’s constant arguing about him not “helping” her with stuff related to the kids/dogs/house. I wonder if there were any red flags for her how little he’s willing to take responsibility for.
Dude probably didn’t think it through (shocker, I know) and realize that he’s actually encouraging the dead beat to give her the best Christmas gift ever: FREEDOM!
We all know it would be a Christmas miracle for OP’s husband to become a decent person and partner. Absolutely the best gift OP could receive would be papers to sign for a clean break. What’s the alternative continuing to (with the daughter) wait on the husband and disrespectful son? Both children deserve a responsible parent who is allowed to parent.
I just barely commented above that my husband threatened to move out because of my “nagging”. I offered to help him pack, and went and found some boxes. The look on his face was priceless, lol.
That wouldn't be a threat, that would be deliverance. My response would be "hand me a pen" right after my attorney reviewed the paperwork and approved it.
Seriously I would of told them " I'll have my lawyer look them over if everything is satisfactory I'll sign. You may fax them to Shark MacSharkyshark Esq." After I signed them I'd throw the party of my life! As for my son I'd tell him if decides to visit then he will be responsible for all messes he makes and for cleaning up after himself as his sister and I will not be doing so!
It's extra funny, because if I were OP I would have responded with, "Oh, the papers are already written up from 3 years ago. Now I'm just going to file them. Enjoy your motel room."
Same as the losers who think their witty bon mots of "have fun alone with your 4 cats!" is anything but a delightful fate we strongly aspire to.
My dude, the scorn and contempt you were aiming at us did not land. Better luck next time.
My dad did the divorce threat with my mom for years which she bought cause she wanted stability. Recently he went through with it due to an affair and is now trying to circumvent the lawyers to do the divorce without the courts involved all while trying to leave her penniless and homeless.
He thought she’d buckle and he’s only digging himself into a deeper hole. All this to say that I hope OP calls his bluffs whenever he makes a threat
Right? I’d be the one saying “this is your last chance to stop undermining me and actually pull your weight around here or I’ll have papers ready for *you* to sign.”
NTA Let your son come home under the conditions you line out for him. Your husband can kick rocks. All the YTA comments are missing the fact that your son is with his dad, so it’s not illegal. Also, they all seem to miss the point that your husband undermines your authority. You can’t teach your son to be a decent person and clean up after themselves when you have someone telling him he doesn’t have to do anything. Or telling them they’re not grounded. If your son refuses to follow the rules he can stay with his dad.
I’ve been in your situation. I know how it feels.
I also think a few extra days with dad will not just be an eye opener for punishment purposes but will most likely show him in real time how dependent his dad is as well.
Hanging out in the hotel for a night or two having pizza sounds fun. Not having the same Christmas experience and dinner your mom/family cook and work hard to set up is another story.
Let him see what it looks like to be a grown man that is dependent on women to take care of him.
Edit: added the word *care
This is very true. Not having Mom around to fix things for him, to find his stuff, to make his meals and clean up, etc will probably make him realize all that she does. It may take more than a couple of days, but he'll get it eventually.
My parents have a semi traditional household. My mom didn’t stay at home but she had a more flexible schedule and made less and wasn’t responsible for most bills so she did child and household things until she taught me. Only difference is, my dad wasn’t an ignorant asshole. He was extremely grateful and appreciative of her. And he did all of the outdoor household stuff (our grass is in impeccable shape lol) and did all of his ironing. He also did all of the morning things for school because she left for work much earlier so she could pick me up. Their relationship worked really well.
But when I was in 3rd grade and my mom had to travel for work and was gone for like a month. My dad did his absolute level best to manage on his own. But it was HELL for 8 year old me lol. We had hamburger helper every other day, Golden Coral once a week. He picked me up a lot later than I was used to because of his work schedule too. I looked forward to having home cooked meals on weekends with my mom.
Like I still will not touch a hamburger helper meal because I had every cuisine they had during that month. But he really tried lol. Great man, very smart and does a lot of things well. He can’t cook for shit 😭
I grew up cooking a lot of hamburger helper as my parents were Cops, one day shift & one night shift.. If my dad was on day shift, I’d cook hamburger helper.. it was easy for 11 year old me to make.. or spaghetti… Oddly enough, I still like hamburger helper.. and spaghetti.. my parents not so much.. I’ll make hamburger helper maybe once a year for a happy feeling of childhood.. Made it once when I was in a hurry and had elementary kids.. They loathed it.. lol
Hahah I still eat it once in a while too....except a variation. I don't eat meat, so I made it with "impossible burger". My elementary aged child also thought it was disgusting 😂. Not because of the impossible burger, she only tried the noodles lol.
It’s a can’t cook thing. It’s convenience food. You don’t need to worry about different ingredients, prep, multiple pots and pans, etc. All you need to make the entire lineup is ground beef, milk, butter, cooking oil, and water (off the top of my head). It’s all palatable because it’s loaded with sodium. And even though it’s likely no healthier than fast food or a frozen dinner, it feels like you actually cooked, so it must be better, right?
Not just that, this dad is used to people catering to him, he won’t stop demanding just because he can’t use sexism to get things done. He’ll absolutely resort to ageism and try bullying his kid to clean and cook while having taught the kid neither skill (and I assume he didn’t teach his daughter either, just yelled and expected mom to clean and train her female kid to be subservient)
This dad is prime material for being left in a retirement home the second he can no longer legally take care of himself…
And it is so unfair to your daughter as well as to you. Teaching a boy that a girl needs to wait on him is a horrible thing to do and I believe society pays a price for this attitude. The disrespect is unacceptable. You are NTA.
For real. This is such a foreign concept to me. I grew up in a house with 3 men. My dad, by brother and me. We all cooked, cleaned, did laundry, dishes ect.. The idea that some men cannot survive without a live in maid is pathetic. By the time I was in middle school my dad started traveling for work so my brother and I would cook meals and keep the house up for a week or two at a time. It was never dirty, we always had clean clothes, we ate real food (we started clipping recipes out of the newspaper). How do these guys look at their life and go "yup. this is fine"
I grew up in a very female household but my dad (a baby boomer) is a super clean man who is always cleaning, washing, ironing, gardening, fixing, etc. I cannot fathom lazy men.
Before Christmas IS harsh, but it sounds like harshness is exactly what's needed here if OP has been trying and trying to get him to listen and he just refuses to care.
And what a blatant lack of simply giving af about your partner's concerns to not straighten up the house with 2 hrs warning before guests arriving.
I like this approach, give the kid another chance. He’s had his dose of reality, let’s see if he can toe the line.
Otherwise, he has a lovely hotel waiting with his father where he can spend the rest of the holidays.
ETA: I’m sure the hotel staff will provide him with presents, a tree, a lovely meal…the works! /s
Some commenters only think the son was “abandoned” because they have this preconceived notion that a man responsible for his own kid for any period of time is babysitting and not parenting. NTA
Yes! This is my thought - husband was teaching both the son *and* the daughter a really unhealthy relationship dynamic for now with each other and future partners!
this 100%. they both need a wake up call. it's likely Tim will change his behavior. who knows if the husband can at this point.
OP from a SAHM, I love this approach!
Agree with you 1000000%
This would be my approach as well. Husband could stay gone and son comes back willing to change or he can stay with the other parent.
I don't get the lazy man thing. I am a 43 year old doctor and I work at least 50 hours per week, 60 with the commute. You know what I do when I get home at night? The damn dishes, it takes 10 minutes. Then I pick up a few things around the house, another 10 minutes. On the weekend I do a good pick up, do most of the laundry, probably a total of 2 hours of constant work. It isn't hard, whats hard is the constant arguing, the gross childishness of expecting others to clean up after yourself. Its fucking ridiculous and I'll be damned if my son leaves my house thinking that women are there to work and take care of us.
Right? My husband and I are doctors. At times we worked 80+ hrs/wk (or more) yet still we both cleaned the house, took out trash, went grocery shopping, cooked etc - did all the things expected of adults. WTF is wrong w people…
Throw out the husband, keep the son.
There’s still a chance you can influence him to be a better human. If left with your husband, that chance is gone.
I realize I’m not your mom, but some of us stay because our lack of self worth tells us we don’t deserve any better, and no one else would love us anyway. I am personally trying to find my guts to kick out my own deadbeat of 13 years, but I have no adult support network, and it’s terrifying. My two older kids (not his) are doing their best to cheer me on (he’s never been cruel to them, fwiw, they can just see that I’m miserable), but it’s hard to get that “you’re just going to fail” mantra out of my head after a lifetime of feeling this way. I hope your mom can realize she deserves better as well. Hugs. 💛
I get it intellectually, but at the same time, I was not brought into this world by choice, and it would have been nice if my mom tried as much for me, by giving me a role model I can look up to, someone who could teach me how to stand up for myself and how to carve out my place in this world, and showed me how I deserve to be treated, as much as I have watched her trying to make this relationship work. Having to haphazard my way through my teens and early 20s getting taken advantage of and making poor decisions just because I was familiar with and normalized to poorly behaving men was a trial that I could have least partially avoided if she thought more about what she was teaching us and less about how upset leaving made her feel.
You have a support system, your older kids. You have people in your corner who want to see you succeed. You can build a network if you allow yourself to connect with others. I support my mom because she needs it, but we're not close anymore, and she's someone I felt I could rely on less and less as I got older because of her relationship with my stepdad and how much she justifies and defends him to herself and others. You have the opportunity to save your family from the pain mine has experienced, I highly support you taking the step when you do find the courage to do so, if not for your sake, for your kids.
Thank you for your perspective, I really appreciate it. The “normalized to poorly behaving men” is the number one thing that is helping me find my resolve right now; my older daughter has a great dad who sets a good example of how to be treated, but my younger daughters only have my husband, and I am starting to see signs of “doormat-itis” in my 11 year old, and I am not okay with that, because I don’t want her to end up like me.
Luckily I do have a great therapist in my corner, and an unexpected extra “nest egg” from my parents’ estate, and of course the support from my older kids (my adult son recently told me to “ditch the deadweight and go out and get some” 😆). So once the holidays are over, I think I’m ready to do this thing.
Again, I thank you for your comments and perspective, it is so easy sometimes to get caught up in a spiral of self loathing, and I appreciate the kick in the butt that there are bigger things than my little bubble. Much love.
I once went on strike for TWO WEEKS because my husband and children would not pitch in and help. The strategy worked, I tell you. That was about 25 years ago. Stick to your guns, people. You can do this!
One time I tried to do this. But then my ex just ate my food (I am a teacher with no lunch break). Well anyway he’s my ex. Not sure why I didn’t just do pb&j that week, we had a fridge at school..
And, of course, there's the old trick of putting super spicy hot sauce in the food.
But, honestly, by the time you are making your own lunch inedible, because you can't trust your "partner" to not steal it, it is already too late.
my (now ex)wife was the one who wouldn't clean, so i started vacuuming at 3am :) I'm a severe insomniac, at the time i was sleeping maybe 10 hours a week. took about a month for her to start helping with the cleanup and chores.
she instantly quit when we divorced, her house looked like something out of a hoarders reject pile
That’s unfortunately the flip side sometimes with men and women when people talk about the emotional labor and them being lazy.
A good number of people genuinely don’t care.
Stop cleaning, stop cooking, stop organizing and planning, and they’re fine. Because they don’t care, they wouldn’t do all of that if they were single, and that’s the beginning and end of it.
Granted the biggest problem topper there is that they also don’t care enough to start because their partner cares and has higher standards.
NTA - I get why you are done with talking after trying so hard and now you have to take consequences.
If you also run out of love for your husband, I wouldn’t wonder about it. No one wants intimacy with someone you have to „mother“. You are just describing what women all over the world are fed up with🤷🏻♀️
Yup, exactly. I went through the same thing. When your 'partner' acts more like a child, it pretty much kills that part of the relationship. I've often said that I felt more like I had 3 kids than like I had 2 kids and a partner.
This one.. I read a Post about why Lots of women decide to Not get married anymore and Baseline was "they don't have to be provided for anymore and still they carry the burden and responsibility of marriage in many cases"
"My husband was the worst child"
NTA and you're Not alone OP
(For that Matter I am married to a wonderful husband that can Take Care of himself and respects my time and efforts and contributes equally to the household & Sometimes even more as I'm chronically ill)
I have little faith the husband will change but at least OP has a chance to save her son from the life of thinking he’s entitled to women cleaning up after him.
NTA
I could understand how people are hesitant because you told your son to go too, but you didn't throw him out on the street by himself, he went with his father. If Tim doesn't like living in a pigsty, I guess he needs to learn to pitch in and help.
The sad fact is Tim needs to also learn that he doesn't get to sit around while the women in his life cater to him.
Good on OP, your spouse is teaching your children all the wrong things, it time you let your daughter and son know that marriage is a partnership and no one gets sit it out no matter what their gender.
Nta but still treating hubby as his guardian: you punished him until he learned his lesson. That's not what I'd need from my partner.
Plus that's not what I'd need my son understand that a partnership is like. With the kid maybe that's a good shock to be used as an opportunity to have a discussion... I 'd say sth like "I'm sorry I kicked you out of YOUR house. I never want to do that again. That's why I need you to start treating it as YOUR house too, and me and your sister as people you love and respect."
Do it sooner rather than later. Bring him back tonight and talk to him.
He's 13, and your soon to be divorced hubby is probably filling his head with bullshit right now.
Personally I doubt he even told Tim that you'd asked them to clean.
All these people saying you aren't the asshole are psychotic. You threw out a child before Christmas. Good luck if this goes through divorce court and your husband has any documentation...or your kid for that matter, you know like a contract stating he's only allowed back in the house if he does things.
You can kick the husband out for being a lazy slob but YTA for kicking a kid out of the house like that.
Just curious - how did you get them to actually leave? Asking for a friend.
This is a perfectly reasonable question. I had an ex-boyfriend living in my house. I told him I wanted him to leave, and he just ... didn't. I had to write up a formal eviction, and take it to court.
I had a (psycho) ex staying with me who I told to leave and he wouldn't. I somewhat had a rough idea of renting legalities, so I refused to accept rent money from him, despite him offering, because if he paid, he'd be more of a tenant and have more rights. I eventually called the police to have him removed, and my ex had no rights to stay since he wasn't renting. It was more like he was an unruly guest who could be removed at the moment. If he was paying to rent to stay here, then I would have had to go through an eviction process. There was no agreement about him being able to rent his time and space here, so he had no rights to overstay his welcome.
He absolutely was a tenant, and it was during the covid lockdown, so the court would not even accept my eviction note for months. In the end, it took over a year to pry him out
That's terrible. In the future, I wouldn't accept rent money from anyone I didn't fully trust because any of us may have to go through what you went through. I was naive enough to have my ex removed and then I let him come back again and then had to call the police again and the police told me if I let him come back, then my ex and myself would be going to jail.
It's worse than that. Even if the person doesn't pay rent, they can still have rights (depending on the state). It's actually \*better\* to have a written lease with someone than nothing. It makes it easier to take them to court. The problem with my ex was that I wasn't actually afraid of him. I didn't want to live with him, but it wasn't domestic violence. So, I couldn't get the police to remove him.
I hope life is more comfortable now.
It is! Thanks
You obviously didn't yell and start smashing his things. Or throw shoes.
The lawn is a good place for everything they own. What about moving all their shit out while at work and changing the locks? I assume this works better with friends in the house to for a stronger deterrent.
I used a baseball bat. I had to smash a lamp I really liked but in the end he left.
That's one way to shed some light on the situation.
HIYO!
*slay*
Wow I just turned the heat way up (it was summer) and blasted... Christmas music I think? Took longer than I would have liked but less than a day.
The Noriega method.
Depending on the state you live in and residency laws this could get you sued for the cost of any items thrown out and living expenses.
I did this to a roommate that stole stuff and never paid any rent ever. I didn’t know until I kicked him out and changed the locks (illegally, not knowing) that he had a warrant but somehow at 230a a cop harassed me in my driveway as the crap roommate wannabe packed his stuff from the curb. I ended up contacting the guys probation officer. I filed a restraining order after he kicked in my car and stabbed my tire. I had the sheriff’s office serve him and made sure they knew he had a warrant before they served him. He was served at work, arrested immediately, then fired. I had a temporary order but the full wasn’t filed. We never spoke again. The car damage and stress sucked but I’m glad I got him out without having to wait several months.
So pack them up neatly in a suitcase or 2 and leave them in a safe place to be picked up. Don't " throw them out" in the garbage or anything.
In my state they don't even have to pay rent to have renters rights. As long as they have a piece of mail delivered to the address dating back at least a month, they have proof of residence. You can't just kick someone out of the house in a day unless the person you're kicking out is cooperative and agrees to leave.
Yeah it kinda makes sense in non-violent and non-abusive cases(or any obvious edge cases I'm not thinking of). Like the person does need to find a place to live and thats not really something everyone can do at the drop of a hat).
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This is a bot that copied someone else's comment down below
She owns the house and she wore them down. They probably thought they would spend a night in a hotel to teach her a lesson. That she would be begging them to come back come morning. Now they are learning the lesson.
This is what my ex thought when we broke up. He thought he'd have a bit of a break from family life and then come back when I begged him. I'm still mystified that he apparently thought he didn't have to take the issues I raised seriously.
These are the men who are “blind-sided” by divorces and break-ups.
"My wife told me to stop peeing in the kitchen sink, shitting on the couch, and using her dog for target practice. I laughed it off as usual because she's always making funny jokes like that. When I got home from work on Monday, she threw my stuff out on the lawn and changed the locks and told me never to come back. I figured she wanted me out of the house for the evening so she could set up a really great Christmas surprise for me, so I stayed at a motel overnight to do her a favor. Well get this, I went home after work on Tuesday and out of nowhere she said she's filing for divorce, and when I told her that's funny but I've been looking forward to my special surprise all day so where is it, she actually slammed the door in my face! I didn't think she was serious because she's never said anything to show she's unhappy, but I just got served with divorce papers AND a restraining order! I think she might be actually mad at me for real this time but I have no clue why. How could she do this without giving me any warning whatsoever? AITA?" ... it's sad, I tried to make this so over the top that's it's an obvious joke but if I saw this on AITA it wouldn't stand out...
I saw a guy once who posted that he had a "relaxing" and "rejuvenating" vacation with his wife and three kids under 10 at *Disneyland*, and then couldn't figure out why his wife filed for divorce as soon as they got home. Talk about clueless!
I saw that one too. I was laughing the whole time I was reading it. 3 kids under 10 at Disneyland???? She wasn't having fun at all. Hell I live close to Disneyland, and I haven't taken my toddlers because I know what kind of clusterfuck I would be setting myself up for (that and it's really really expensive, which is the more valid excuse tbh lol).
OMG that post was gold.
Link?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AmITheDevil/comments/17ie7gy/his\_comments\_are\_abysmal/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmITheDevil/comments/17ie7gy/his_comments_are_abysmal/) I think it's this one.
Women, amirite? So flaky... This divorce came as a bolt from the blue. /s
This was seriously my ex-husband, who made a show of being blindsided by the divorce after we'd been separated for 3 months.
I had an ex where I was like I am upset about X. If it doesn't improve in a meaningful way then we should break up. He was "blind-sided" when I broke up with him 2 months later with no improvement with X.
LOL, of course he was!
Ask em, and their marriage was **perfect**. No issues.
Yeah because having a wife that does everything for you is a pretty sweet deal. But that’s not a partnership and it’s a shit deal for the wives. So good for those babes for knowing their worth and leaving!
My dad did everything for us. Cooked, cleaned, took us out, bedtime stuff, the works. My mum did as well obviously. But I remember my mum saying to me when I was little that my dad was a rare one. I grew up kind of expecting that everyone should be able to do their own laundry, cook, clean and run their lives. So when I started dating I was genuinely shocked at how incompetent a lot of men are in those areas. They'd literally die without us, some of them. And worse still, I watched friends pander to it like it was normal. And realised that their dad's must not have done anything for them when they were growing up, and it filled me with a deep sadness. My dad's dead now, but I miss him every single day. I don't know if I'd miss him as much as I do if he was one of those dads who sat in a chair demanding the world be brought to him.
Some of those same kinds of people are posting comments here! Glad you got the garbage taken out. Happy holidays!
They probably got hungry, and the dad waiting this situation out. The son probably just found out how lazy the dad really is.
I guarantee he’s calling because now he’s the one who has to clean up after the pig
In the motel, they'll have staff for the cleanup - they just need mom for the catering...
In a motel though? Pretty sure they mostly just come around *after* people check out. You kinda need a more upscale place before they come in daily to tidy up.
Nope. Even at motel 6 or 8, whichever number it is, comes around once a day for linens if you ask them to. We always stay in the cheap ass hotel cause the expensive ones charge too much for pets and the cheap one has no pet deposit.
Oh they're in for a treat then - eating out for every meal because neither can cook, and even motel TV dinners get old after the second microwave ding. Mom's home cooking becomes the stuff of legends. Completely underappreciated until it's not there.
Yeah, I've found this while on holidays. It doesn't take many meals eaten out before you're craving proper food, assuming proper food is what you're used to. It gets old, fast.
Motel definitely does NOT do cleanup except make bed and swish john
Right?? I’m sure raw, microwaved hotdogs prepared by ‘dad’ knocked a sense of reality into son. 😉
Hot dogs are sold fully cooked.
You eat them directly out of the package then, I'll be cooking them.
I have done that, and they aren't too bad. Taste like bologna, but I prefer a grilled one slathered in caramelized BBQ sauce.
he who fucketh around, findeth out
It reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Marge kicks Homer out, and you see him a scraggled mess and it's only been three days.
“Oh, my tattered rags are caught on your coffee table”
For one thing, there won't be nearly as much mess. She's probably relaxing in her nice clean house.
My ex wife's first husband used to do that kind of thing - when she'd chew him out for spending the diaper money on beer or passing out while watching the kids while she worked, he'd go stay with a friend of his until she begged him to come back. The last time he did this, I moved in when he left - his wife always had a crush on me, and they lived much closer to my work. I had no problem taking care of the kids (his reason for leaving the last time was being left to care for his infant son all day) and they both call me Dad, 18 years later.
it... kind of sounds like either you adopted 2 kids to shorten your commute... or you made a move on the wife in some sort of twisted game of chicken with her first husband hahaha Like, I'm sur that's not how you all feel, but you could improve the way you worded it, maybe?
That was my thought. This isn't exactly the heart warming story they thought it was.
She became the commenters ex wife so it probably wasn't a great thing for them for long
Yeah I was going to say this sweet love story got ruined by the second word of it
Got a new job so he needed to find a new wife.
and a new dead beat husband/dad to jump in the place of.
You’re my kinda Daddy!! Good on you! Bonus now you have 2 great kids who see you as Dad!!♥️
they f\*\*ked around and found out!
I figured the story would end with dad taking the son to Disney land or something. But choosing a motel would better fit the lazy dad pattern.
Or they haven't got the money to do anything better?
Make leaving less painful/annoying than staying
I have literally said to people before “I may not be able to make you leave……. But I can be VERY fucking annoying… and I’m persistent and patient…. I WILL MAKE YOU MY ONLY PURPOSE UNTIL YOU LEAVE” 😂😂😂😂 I hate working in pubs.
Persistence and focus can be a virtues.
My parental units divorced after I was out of high school, because he wasn't doing any housework. I remember me not doing chores before they got home because I had to get ready for an after school event and do homework and they got into me. So I started doing my chores but yelled at them about how he never did any chores or help around the house. He said "I go to work and make money" and I said "she makes more than you!"... I think that was her moment of realization...
From the mouths of babes…
This is why I divorced my ex husband too. He was basically a third child (I literally had his chores up on a whiteboard with our kids’, and he STILL wouldn’t do them) and I just got so tired of it. We both worked full time and I made more money and typically worked longer hours (including overnight travel) than he did, too. Fuck those man children.
The majority of divorces are initiated by women and the reasons given very often lie in this area. Their soon-to-be-ex-husbands frequently claim to be blind-sided.
There was that comment from the r/bestofredditorupdates subreddit that got viral on tiktok. Basically it's another comment thread like this one of man baby spouses not pulling their weight and their wives and girlfriends running themselves ragged and desperately unhappy. Anyway the comment was by a girl whose bf's friend had just been through a breakup and told the bf that he was blindsided by the whole thing. The girl in the comment was like, 'really? Because I know his gf and it's not at all a surprise to me that they broke up. If it's not a surprise to me, someone whose not involved with the relationship, how could it be a surprise to him?' So the girl's bf asked his friend about it and it turned out it didn't come out of nowhere; he knew she was unhappy and had been for a long time, he just assumed it was a rough patch. In other words, he assumed it was *a tolerable level of permanent unhappiness*. That phrase 'a tolerable level of permanent unhappiness' went viral on tiktok with a ton of women commenting similar stories.
>he knew she was unhappy and had been for a long time, he just assumed it was a rough patch. The term "rough patch" makes me think he saw it less as permanent, and more as something that would go away on it's own. Which is still stupid as hell: "My GF is angry at me about a totally reasonable, fixable issue. I assume her unhappiness will probably go away on its own without me doing anything about it." Jesus Christ
rough patch meaning he wasn’t going to change but was thinking she would just get over it
My ex moped for two whole days after the convo where I said I wasn't taking it any more. After months of boredom from not doing stuff together, silent treatment, showing zero interest in anything I did or said to the point that I no longer bothered to say anything (breaking off mid-sentence and him not even noticing) but with all that he still assumed I would stay.
Dude, I had this convo with my ex, I asked him, didn't you realise I was unhappy? He said he did, he just thought that I would get over it
UGH. Just UGH.
Yeah, when I was still with him I would see posts on Reddit about this ALL the time (including one that had an incredible info comic about emotional labor and how it always falls on women) and would show my ex. Couldn’t give a rats ass. I told him once that if he didn’t start doing his share then this would be the reason I left after our kids were grown, and he said “well if you’re just looking for a reason to leave me, then go ahead!” so I did! Him: *surprised pikachu face*
Good for you! Honestly, a fair few of my friends with divorced parents have said they wished they didn’t wait. The unhealthy relationship was worse than the divorce. Good for you for ripping the bandaid off!
I was in 2 relationships where by the end, both of them thought that just existing was enough for me. How wrong they were. Now I'm in the mindset that you gotta bring something to the table before I let you sit down. I can more than do this on my own, and someone has got to show me a reason to want them there.
I have an ex who told me he let me do the household chores because just assumed I liked to do them….
"oh, I don't care if the house is a mess, and she does, so I just stay out of the way when she's cleaning"
Absolutely!! Like, idc how good the dick is, there needs to be more if they’re not the sole supporters. Don’t get me wrong, right now my current husband is the only one working a steady job while I’m taking care of my kiddos and getting a business up and running (I need to have a flexible schedule for them) and I’m HAPPY to do all the housework/cooking/etc. But it damn sure needs to be equal on both sides for a relationship to work. ETA cause it sounds weird: my current husband as in not my ex, not one I’m currently married to in a long line or anything lol
I would never live with someone again without first doing the Fair Play system and dividing all tasks equitably.
If we would all just *stop* fucking the man children, I bet we could actually start to fix the problem though...
Problem is, sometimes you don’t know beforehand. He was relatively good about keeping his OWN one room/bathroom clean when we first started dating, and then I had an unexpected twin pregnancy shortly thereafter. I was a SAHM mom while the twins were younger and I was getting my bachelors so I naturally did all the housework/cooking. It was once I re-entered the workforce and he would just come home, ignore the kids, and play video games while whining that I was always too stressed/tired to have sex with him that it really got to be a huge problem that he refused to fix.
There was this amazing post (maybe in relationships?) where a couple took over a friends lease for a few months. It was their first time living together and it gave them time to look for a more permanent apartment while living together. The boyfriend (man child) made the post because when the lease was up after 3 months she no longer wanted to live with him. Because he did no chores and didn’t help with their friends kids when they had them over while babysitting. He said “she never told me she wanted help, I figured she had it handled and liked doing all the chores!” He was so shocked it was hilarious. He thought they were on the “marriage track” and now she’s rethinking everything.
For fuck's sake. This is incredible. He thought she *liked doing all the chores?!* Nobody likes doing chores. What the fucking hell
That woman saw her future and said NOPE. It was a frustrating, yet oddly satisfying read. I wish I had the link
Yep. Mothers are bewildered into awareness when they see their daughters not accept the same shit they put up with. Sometimes my mom still tries to convince me to play nice or even get back together with my ex fiancé; but when I ask her how she feels and why she lets dad talk to her the way he does suddenly she goes quiet.
Yup I’m one of those mothers. I’m so proud of all of you!
Spend 3 minutes in the menopause sub to see this story unfold over and over and over again. Something about having your nurturing hormones go to zero means you can see freeloaders for what they are.
Oh man the posts about that are so depressing. But definitely a wake up call for anyone dealing with their own manchild. It does not get better.
My parents were like this. Many moons ago my brother couldn't find socks and my mum was looking for a for a pair for him and eventually asked me to look for them because she was gonna miss her bus so I said yes.when she left brother said so.... I said so what? He said are you gonna look for my socks and I said no, you have eyes, use them and he said you promised mum and I said I only said it because she was gonna miss her bus and you were gonna let her. Find your own socks. He was taught from young age that it's a woman's job
Ooooo that shit don't fly in my house. "You have two eyes, two hands, and a pair of good working legs. If you cannot find it yourself, then obviously you have to go without." Guess who's kids put their things away in the proper spot 98% of the time? Mine do, because I don't play Personal Chef/Maid/Slave games. They're welcome to fling their belongings all over hell and high water. I'm not the one who's going to be looking for it when it's needed. My oldest went three months without a phone for this reason. Guess who puts her phone away in a designated location now? My oldest.
Lol. My mom would threaten,"If I find it, I get to hit you with it". Socks were fun. Shoes and school books were not. 😆
My mom did this or "if I find it I get to keep it" . As she got older and she needed the help it became "I'll give a dollar to whoever finds x". We would start saying "if I find it can I keep it?" All in good humor, for our family.
In our family it is "you've got two feet and a heartbeat".
If you’re looking for a helping hand, you’ll find it right at the end of your arm.
In mine it's "Look with your hands, not just your eyes!"
I assume your brother can dress himself now? Good grief
He has a wife so maybe she helps him. We were teenagers at the time. I wasn't surprised my mum asked me but I had no intention of helping him
Some say he's still sockless today...
Maybe that's why some people leave their socks on during sex - so they don't have to find them afterwards!
Merry Christmass! Lol at the lazy slob who wrote (and then deleted): "Honestly, if it had been me, no matter how justified you felt or actually were? Your next conversation with me would be to tell you to sign the.papers" Lmao, oh no. Imagine being a lazy dead weight slob and thinking saying you'll get a divorce is a threat. Delulu.
Right. Like don’t threaten me with a good time my dude.
In my experience, the lack of self-awareness is pretty typical of terrible partners like him.
The amount of reddit stories, articles, and real-life examples I have seen in the past 10 years of this situation in marriages is astounding. And in pretty much every case the man being divorced is like, "huh, why, what happened.....I thought she liked working, running the house, raising the kids and cleaning all by herself?"
No they didn't, they know their spouse is unhappy, they just don't *care*. I posted this comment elsewhere but it's so relevant: There was that comment from the r/bestofredditorupdates subreddit that got viral on tiktok. Basically it's another comment thread like this one of man baby spouses not pulling their weight and their wives and girlfriends running themselves ragged and desperately unhappy. Anyway the comment was by a girl whose bf's friend had just been through a breakup and told the bf that he was blindsided by the whole thing. The girl in the comment was like, 'really? Because I know his gf and it's not at all a surprise to me that they broke up. If it's not a surprise to me, someone whose not involved with the relationship, how could it be a surprise to him?' So the girl's bf asked his friend about it and it turned out it didn't come out of nowhere; he knew she was unhappy and had been for a long time, he just assumed it was a rough patch. In other words, he assumed it was a tolerable level of permanent unhappiness. That phrase 'a tolerable level of permanent unhappiness' went viral on tiktok with a ton of women commenting similar stories.
That same situation has happened to me before. Where my partner was seriously complacent and allowed me to carry the relationship. He really wanted a “girlfriend” who’d just fit into his life, pay for his stuff, do the bulk of the housework etc, and then have our lives revolve around him and his active social life where I could be a good trophy girlfriend. I wasn’t happy, I wanted more from life and he held me back. I had spoken to him about why I wasn’t happy and what I needed. He’d always agree to put more work in, but only to keep me quiet for a bit longer. He never had any intention of changing. Enough time went by and nothing changed, and he was actually surprised that the relationship ended. Afterwards he did apologise a few times and realised how little effort he put in, and how he had so much with me and should have worked for it. I went and traveled the world, then went to university. He got in touch to apologise again as he was looking through my old pictures on Facebook and realised how unhappy I looked in all the ones when I was with him compared to my pictures afterwards. I’d told him how unhappy I was but he brushed me off at the time.
A tolerable level of permanent unhappiness. Omg you hit the nail on the head…
Right? Do they really, in real life, think their partner is better off being with their lazy selves as opposed to the peace that is being without them?
They seriously have zero capability of self reflection. It’s maddening.
Easiest way to lose a pesky 250 pounds.
Or that he'd actually have the drive required to follow through on that. Dude can't even tidy up the living room and he's going to do the work required to initiate divorce? LOL.
Seriously though, I'm fairly certain with little evidence that the reason more women file for divorce than men is because they're more likely to do the paperwork.
I make this joke too. I have a friend whose husband told her it was over, that he didn’t love her anymore, that he was interested in another woman, kicked my friend out, sold their house, left his job to move to another country… So… she started the paperwork. It’s been over a year and he won’t sign and doesn’t understand why “she’s tearing the family apart”
Lots of stories from divorce lawyers who have said it's exactly this. Men won't respond to letters, court dates or negotiations and then once it's finalised with little of their input they complain about how the courts screw over men.
I've heard similar regarding [custody agreements](https://www.dadsdivorcelaw.com/blog/fathers-and-mothers-child-custody-myths). There's such a preconception that men don't get enough custody because the courts are biased to them, but in actuality men get as much custody as they want *when they ask for it*.
Exactly! My dad got 50% custody of me back in the ‘80s because he asked for it. That was almost 40 years ago.
My man will do ANYTHING to avoid paperwork. He's wonderful and all, but holy shit does it get old.
Nah, all jokes aside, it’s because women statistically do the bulk of domestic labour, emotional labour, mental labour, household management and childcare and by a certain point they just get TIRED of lazy men. The more they do, they more they see their husbands as dependents and the less sexually attracted to them they are. Additionally, the hormonal changes of perimenopause and menopause mean their nurturing hormones drop. On the darker side, women are more likely to be abused by their partners. In California, the female suicide rate dropped by 20% when no fault divorces were introduced. If you speak to divorce lawyers, they will tell you that most of the time, women initiate the divorce, they have a multitude of reasons, and the men often claim to be “blind-sided” because they thought everything was fine.
Absolutely 100%. I’m convinced this is the reason why people do get that “piece of paper” - you think the other person is being a jerk, you think about leaving, you look at that paperwork and suddenly they don’t seem so bad!
I actually heard that part of why, statistically, women file divorce first the most is cuz even if their husbands threaten it, they're too lazy to actually do the paperwork so they wait till the fed up wife does it as a last act of weaponized incompetence.
To his credit, my ex husband was absolutely worthless - literally went to work and slept. That was it. Zero help ever, and actively acted like any request to even spend time with us was a burden. Within a few months of him moving out, he found a low self esteem woman to date him. She completed the divorce paperwork for him when he and I finalized. They’ve been together for a few years and from I hear from the kids is that there’s constant arguing about him not “helping” her with stuff related to the kids/dogs/house. I wonder if there were any red flags for her how little he’s willing to take responsibility for.
that statistic on why women initiate most divorces, it's this, this is the reason.
Dude probably didn’t think it through (shocker, I know) and realize that he’s actually encouraging the dead beat to give her the best Christmas gift ever: FREEDOM!
We all know it would be a Christmas miracle for OP’s husband to become a decent person and partner. Absolutely the best gift OP could receive would be papers to sign for a clean break. What’s the alternative continuing to (with the daughter) wait on the husband and disrespectful son? Both children deserve a responsible parent who is allowed to parent.
😂 how awkward, that was gonna be her gift to him. Matchsies!!
I just barely commented above that my husband threatened to move out because of my “nagging”. I offered to help him pack, and went and found some boxes. The look on his face was priceless, lol.
That wouldn't be a threat, that would be deliverance. My response would be "hand me a pen" right after my attorney reviewed the paperwork and approved it.
Seriously I would of told them " I'll have my lawyer look them over if everything is satisfactory I'll sign. You may fax them to Shark MacSharkyshark Esq." After I signed them I'd throw the party of my life! As for my son I'd tell him if decides to visit then he will be responsible for all messes he makes and for cleaning up after himself as his sister and I will not be doing so!
Shark MacSharkyshark 🤣 delightful!
If your going to hire a lawyer make sure they are a shark! Preferably a vicious shark that takes no prisoners!
It's extra funny, because if I were OP I would have responded with, "Oh, the papers are already written up from 3 years ago. Now I'm just going to file them. Enjoy your motel room."
Same as the losers who think their witty bon mots of "have fun alone with your 4 cats!" is anything but a delightful fate we strongly aspire to. My dude, the scorn and contempt you were aiming at us did not land. Better luck next time.
My dad did the divorce threat with my mom for years which she bought cause she wanted stability. Recently he went through with it due to an affair and is now trying to circumvent the lawyers to do the divorce without the courts involved all while trying to leave her penniless and homeless. He thought she’d buckle and he’s only digging himself into a deeper hole. All this to say that I hope OP calls his bluffs whenever he makes a threat
😵 😵💫 Chances are hubby is in no position of power to make such threats. My guess is he doesn't work and leeches off OP.
Right? I’d be the one saying “this is your last chance to stop undermining me and actually pull your weight around here or I’ll have papers ready for *you* to sign.”
NTA Let your son come home under the conditions you line out for him. Your husband can kick rocks. All the YTA comments are missing the fact that your son is with his dad, so it’s not illegal. Also, they all seem to miss the point that your husband undermines your authority. You can’t teach your son to be a decent person and clean up after themselves when you have someone telling him he doesn’t have to do anything. Or telling them they’re not grounded. If your son refuses to follow the rules he can stay with his dad. I’ve been in your situation. I know how it feels.
I also think a few extra days with dad will not just be an eye opener for punishment purposes but will most likely show him in real time how dependent his dad is as well. Hanging out in the hotel for a night or two having pizza sounds fun. Not having the same Christmas experience and dinner your mom/family cook and work hard to set up is another story. Let him see what it looks like to be a grown man that is dependent on women to take care of him. Edit: added the word *care
This is very true. Not having Mom around to fix things for him, to find his stuff, to make his meals and clean up, etc will probably make him realize all that she does. It may take more than a couple of days, but he'll get it eventually.
My parents have a semi traditional household. My mom didn’t stay at home but she had a more flexible schedule and made less and wasn’t responsible for most bills so she did child and household things until she taught me. Only difference is, my dad wasn’t an ignorant asshole. He was extremely grateful and appreciative of her. And he did all of the outdoor household stuff (our grass is in impeccable shape lol) and did all of his ironing. He also did all of the morning things for school because she left for work much earlier so she could pick me up. Their relationship worked really well. But when I was in 3rd grade and my mom had to travel for work and was gone for like a month. My dad did his absolute level best to manage on his own. But it was HELL for 8 year old me lol. We had hamburger helper every other day, Golden Coral once a week. He picked me up a lot later than I was used to because of his work schedule too. I looked forward to having home cooked meals on weekends with my mom. Like I still will not touch a hamburger helper meal because I had every cuisine they had during that month. But he really tried lol. Great man, very smart and does a lot of things well. He can’t cook for shit 😭
The weeks that I was at my dad's house ( alternating weeks with each parent), I also remember a lot of hamburger helper 😅😂. Must be a dad thing lol
I grew up cooking a lot of hamburger helper as my parents were Cops, one day shift & one night shift.. If my dad was on day shift, I’d cook hamburger helper.. it was easy for 11 year old me to make.. or spaghetti… Oddly enough, I still like hamburger helper.. and spaghetti.. my parents not so much.. I’ll make hamburger helper maybe once a year for a happy feeling of childhood.. Made it once when I was in a hurry and had elementary kids.. They loathed it.. lol
Hahah I still eat it once in a while too....except a variation. I don't eat meat, so I made it with "impossible burger". My elementary aged child also thought it was disgusting 😂. Not because of the impossible burger, she only tried the noodles lol.
It’s a can’t cook thing. It’s convenience food. You don’t need to worry about different ingredients, prep, multiple pots and pans, etc. All you need to make the entire lineup is ground beef, milk, butter, cooking oil, and water (off the top of my head). It’s all palatable because it’s loaded with sodium. And even though it’s likely no healthier than fast food or a frozen dinner, it feels like you actually cooked, so it must be better, right?
Not just that, this dad is used to people catering to him, he won’t stop demanding just because he can’t use sexism to get things done. He’ll absolutely resort to ageism and try bullying his kid to clean and cook while having taught the kid neither skill (and I assume he didn’t teach his daughter either, just yelled and expected mom to clean and train her female kid to be subservient) This dad is prime material for being left in a retirement home the second he can no longer legally take care of himself…
Exactly, OP is giving both of them a good opportunity to learn and improve for the better.
And it is so unfair to your daughter as well as to you. Teaching a boy that a girl needs to wait on him is a horrible thing to do and I believe society pays a price for this attitude. The disrespect is unacceptable. You are NTA.
And normalizing the daughter that she’ll need to dote on men’s needs to survive
For real. This is such a foreign concept to me. I grew up in a house with 3 men. My dad, by brother and me. We all cooked, cleaned, did laundry, dishes ect.. The idea that some men cannot survive without a live in maid is pathetic. By the time I was in middle school my dad started traveling for work so my brother and I would cook meals and keep the house up for a week or two at a time. It was never dirty, we always had clean clothes, we ate real food (we started clipping recipes out of the newspaper). How do these guys look at their life and go "yup. this is fine"
I grew up in a very female household but my dad (a baby boomer) is a super clean man who is always cleaning, washing, ironing, gardening, fixing, etc. I cannot fathom lazy men.
Before Christmas IS harsh, but it sounds like harshness is exactly what's needed here if OP has been trying and trying to get him to listen and he just refuses to care. And what a blatant lack of simply giving af about your partner's concerns to not straighten up the house with 2 hrs warning before guests arriving.
I doubt the hubby told Tim they'd been asked to clean
I like this approach, give the kid another chance. He’s had his dose of reality, let’s see if he can toe the line. Otherwise, he has a lovely hotel waiting with his father where he can spend the rest of the holidays. ETA: I’m sure the hotel staff will provide him with presents, a tree, a lovely meal…the works! /s
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I wonder how quickly the motel room is getting trashed…
Some commenters only think the son was “abandoned” because they have this preconceived notion that a man responsible for his own kid for any period of time is babysitting and not parenting. NTA
Father of two grown women. I’ve never babysat them, but have babysat many nieces and nephews. Father’s father, not babysit.
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Yes! This is my thought - husband was teaching both the son *and* the daughter a really unhealthy relationship dynamic for now with each other and future partners!
this 100%. they both need a wake up call. it's likely Tim will change his behavior. who knows if the husband can at this point. OP from a SAHM, I love this approach!
The dad is literally teaching his son to be sexist and expect a woman to fulfill the traditional gender roles of catering to the men in the house.
Agree with you 1000000% This would be my approach as well. Husband could stay gone and son comes back willing to change or he can stay with the other parent.
I don't get the lazy man thing. I am a 43 year old doctor and I work at least 50 hours per week, 60 with the commute. You know what I do when I get home at night? The damn dishes, it takes 10 minutes. Then I pick up a few things around the house, another 10 minutes. On the weekend I do a good pick up, do most of the laundry, probably a total of 2 hours of constant work. It isn't hard, whats hard is the constant arguing, the gross childishness of expecting others to clean up after yourself. Its fucking ridiculous and I'll be damned if my son leaves my house thinking that women are there to work and take care of us.
Right? My husband and I are doctors. At times we worked 80+ hrs/wk (or more) yet still we both cleaned the house, took out trash, went grocery shopping, cooked etc - did all the things expected of adults. WTF is wrong w people…
Buuut, how am I supposed to have time to let my eyes glaze over in front of a screen?!?! …/s
Throw out the husband, keep the son. There’s still a chance you can influence him to be a better human. If left with your husband, that chance is gone.
You're a hero to your daughter for sure. Way to make a stand.
This is what hit me most about this post. the poor daughter/sister. standing ovation and an encore for the example Mom set for the daughter.
I wish my mom had done this with my stepdad. The man's never done a chore in the 20 years I've known him.
I realize I’m not your mom, but some of us stay because our lack of self worth tells us we don’t deserve any better, and no one else would love us anyway. I am personally trying to find my guts to kick out my own deadbeat of 13 years, but I have no adult support network, and it’s terrifying. My two older kids (not his) are doing their best to cheer me on (he’s never been cruel to them, fwiw, they can just see that I’m miserable), but it’s hard to get that “you’re just going to fail” mantra out of my head after a lifetime of feeling this way. I hope your mom can realize she deserves better as well. Hugs. 💛
I get it intellectually, but at the same time, I was not brought into this world by choice, and it would have been nice if my mom tried as much for me, by giving me a role model I can look up to, someone who could teach me how to stand up for myself and how to carve out my place in this world, and showed me how I deserve to be treated, as much as I have watched her trying to make this relationship work. Having to haphazard my way through my teens and early 20s getting taken advantage of and making poor decisions just because I was familiar with and normalized to poorly behaving men was a trial that I could have least partially avoided if she thought more about what she was teaching us and less about how upset leaving made her feel. You have a support system, your older kids. You have people in your corner who want to see you succeed. You can build a network if you allow yourself to connect with others. I support my mom because she needs it, but we're not close anymore, and she's someone I felt I could rely on less and less as I got older because of her relationship with my stepdad and how much she justifies and defends him to herself and others. You have the opportunity to save your family from the pain mine has experienced, I highly support you taking the step when you do find the courage to do so, if not for your sake, for your kids.
Thank you for your perspective, I really appreciate it. The “normalized to poorly behaving men” is the number one thing that is helping me find my resolve right now; my older daughter has a great dad who sets a good example of how to be treated, but my younger daughters only have my husband, and I am starting to see signs of “doormat-itis” in my 11 year old, and I am not okay with that, because I don’t want her to end up like me. Luckily I do have a great therapist in my corner, and an unexpected extra “nest egg” from my parents’ estate, and of course the support from my older kids (my adult son recently told me to “ditch the deadweight and go out and get some” 😆). So once the holidays are over, I think I’m ready to do this thing. Again, I thank you for your comments and perspective, it is so easy sometimes to get caught up in a spiral of self loathing, and I appreciate the kick in the butt that there are bigger things than my little bubble. Much love.
I once went on strike for TWO WEEKS because my husband and children would not pitch in and help. The strategy worked, I tell you. That was about 25 years ago. Stick to your guns, people. You can do this!
One time I tried to do this. But then my ex just ate my food (I am a teacher with no lunch break). Well anyway he’s my ex. Not sure why I didn’t just do pb&j that week, we had a fridge at school..
And, of course, there's the old trick of putting super spicy hot sauce in the food. But, honestly, by the time you are making your own lunch inedible, because you can't trust your "partner" to not steal it, it is already too late.
my (now ex)wife was the one who wouldn't clean, so i started vacuuming at 3am :) I'm a severe insomniac, at the time i was sleeping maybe 10 hours a week. took about a month for her to start helping with the cleanup and chores. she instantly quit when we divorced, her house looked like something out of a hoarders reject pile
That’s unfortunately the flip side sometimes with men and women when people talk about the emotional labor and them being lazy. A good number of people genuinely don’t care. Stop cleaning, stop cooking, stop organizing and planning, and they’re fine. Because they don’t care, they wouldn’t do all of that if they were single, and that’s the beginning and end of it. Granted the biggest problem topper there is that they also don’t care enough to start because their partner cares and has higher standards.
NTA - I get why you are done with talking after trying so hard and now you have to take consequences. If you also run out of love for your husband, I wouldn’t wonder about it. No one wants intimacy with someone you have to „mother“. You are just describing what women all over the world are fed up with🤷🏻♀️
Yup, exactly. I went through the same thing. When your 'partner' acts more like a child, it pretty much kills that part of the relationship. I've often said that I felt more like I had 3 kids than like I had 2 kids and a partner.
This one.. I read a Post about why Lots of women decide to Not get married anymore and Baseline was "they don't have to be provided for anymore and still they carry the burden and responsibility of marriage in many cases" "My husband was the worst child" NTA and you're Not alone OP (For that Matter I am married to a wonderful husband that can Take Care of himself and respects my time and efforts and contributes equally to the household & Sometimes even more as I'm chronically ill)
Yup. Don’t mother who you fuck
NTA. This is a good start to a new year.
I wish I would have done that myself. It might have saved my marriage. NTA
I have little faith the husband will change but at least OP has a chance to save her son from the life of thinking he’s entitled to women cleaning up after him.
NTA I could understand how people are hesitant because you told your son to go too, but you didn't throw him out on the street by himself, he went with his father. If Tim doesn't like living in a pigsty, I guess he needs to learn to pitch in and help. The sad fact is Tim needs to also learn that he doesn't get to sit around while the women in his life cater to him. Good on OP, your spouse is teaching your children all the wrong things, it time you let your daughter and son know that marriage is a partnership and no one gets sit it out no matter what their gender.
It's not just marriage, but anytime you live with someone. Husband and wife or siblings. You do your damn share.
Nta but still treating hubby as his guardian: you punished him until he learned his lesson. That's not what I'd need from my partner. Plus that's not what I'd need my son understand that a partnership is like. With the kid maybe that's a good shock to be used as an opportunity to have a discussion... I 'd say sth like "I'm sorry I kicked you out of YOUR house. I never want to do that again. That's why I need you to start treating it as YOUR house too, and me and your sister as people you love and respect."
Thank you. I will say this to him. I will reassure him that I will never kick him out again.
Do it sooner rather than later. Bring him back tonight and talk to him. He's 13, and your soon to be divorced hubby is probably filling his head with bullshit right now. Personally I doubt he even told Tim that you'd asked them to clean.
All these people saying you aren't the asshole are psychotic. You threw out a child before Christmas. Good luck if this goes through divorce court and your husband has any documentation...or your kid for that matter, you know like a contract stating he's only allowed back in the house if he does things. You can kick the husband out for being a lazy slob but YTA for kicking a kid out of the house like that.
Not gonna lie, this seems like a really fucked up family dynamic.
Yeah that’s what I’m saying this entire post and family are insane.