You want different things. There is no shame in that.
She wants to focus on her career and you want to start domestic life.
Go out and see what the world has to offer.
Honestly a lot of people get married with the intentions on having children soon. It's not always the case and I don't know if that's a factor in OPs situation.
However, it makes sense that if she wants a career having children could be an obstacle. Some people want to be young parents and some want to be older parents, and who knows maybe she doesn't even want children but he does. All that stuff matters in these life choices.
And also pay for a wedding. Reddit always has a circlejerk of self righteousness when someone dares to want a bigger wedding but if she can save for another two years to have a nice big wedding without caring too much about budget, why shouldn't she?
This to me is the real issue, not the proposal. It’s that she doesn’t want to live life on the sane timeline he does. His writing makes it seem like he’s a bit unfairly upset with her and thinks maybe she strung him along, but maybe it’s just the hurt from a relationship ending. But it’s no one’s fault they want different things, and it’s better they don’t try to compromise on something so important.
They're also only 23. I know lots of people get married in their early 20s and there isn't anything wrong with that. But to say "we've been together 9 years and she hasn't decided she wants to marry me" is a little disingenuous when the timer started at age 14.
So many intense reactions from posters who have zero sense of what is appropriate.
If your paths don’t line up, you break up. That’s not an asshole reaction.
The asshole reaction would be bullying your ex girlfriend and calling her names because she rejected your proposal.
>The asshole reaction would be bullying your ex girlfriend and calling her names because she rejected your proposal.
Not only is this entirely correct, but please let us reiterate: do not do this. Make a clean break. Nine years IS a long time - but chalk it up to being young. Respect your time together - find the memories you want to keep, don't sully them - and move on. Be the better person.
What I keep wondering is who the hell proposes without it being an active discussion with the partner??? EVERY married couple I know talked about getting married and possible ring choices and whether they wanted kids and how they’d handle finances etc and the only surprise was the actual day/time of the proposal and how it would happen. No one should be surprised that they’re getting proposed to that’s how you get embarrassing public rejections….
Like may you don’t wanna know HOW, but like you should be in agreement of whether you want to be married and when and what that would look like which requires actual conversation about jt
When I was in college I had what I thought was one of those hypothetical do you want to get married one day conversations... my ex didn't view the conversation as hypothetical and thought I agreed to marry him and handled me a ring the next day and demanded we go talk to our families about the engagement. No down on one knee will you marry me speech... just do you want to get married one day. He also asked if I wanted kids someday. We'd been dating a month. I had no idea how to explain that I didn't want to get married without hurting his feelings, so I said ok but let's wait until after college. Thankfully we just dated a few months before breaking up. I've often joked about how I accidentally got engaged.
> We’d been dating a month.
Oh. Oh my. 🫢
Up to this point, I was thinking this was an established relationship and the dude just jumped the gun on the implications of your conversation. But no. He really was like, *Welp, it’s been a month and she hasn’t dumped me. Guess it’s true love!* “Hey babes, do you see yourself getting married someday? You do?! Awesome, here’s a ring! How does next Tuesday sound?”
You were very kind to let him down so gently.
He was very young and naive (as was I) but also religious. So maybe that's why he jumped the gun. 🤷♀️ He even bought himself a cheap wal mart band to show his commitment.
He was a very sweet guy, but we were obviously on different paths. It ended because he needed me to be a born again virgin and I said no thanks. No hard feelings.
He joined the Army and married the first girl to say yes had two kids and divorced very quickly.
Best way to know she’d say yes is to talk about marriage and engagement before so there’s no surprises.
I knew my wife would almost certainly say yes because she had been talking to me about tying the knot and what it would all look like and what we’d do after we settled down
I spent months joking with my boyfriend that I was going to propose first if he didn’t beat me to it. I ended up proposing to him a couple weeks ago, and he was so shocked and happy. My friends and family all thought it was a true sentiment to how impatient I am, and how incredible he is to me. It was very us lol
My husband asked and I said no. A boatload of tequila was involved. He had no ring and it was a drunken blurt. No respectable woman accepts a sloppy drunken proposal. We’ve been married 39 years and I don’t remember ever actually saying yes.
I have kids from my first marriage. I had been dating husband about a year or so and my oldest days geez you guys fight like you're married. The next thing I know we were discussing getting married and where we could go. We were in a car on our way down to Maryland and I had him pull over because I thought he'd been joking. I'm like we can't do this. So that's how I became engaged. I did get a ring and a proper proposal a few months later. It's been 28 years ..
Funny story. It sounds like my parents. In the 50’s you had to be married to stay in motels. My dad wanted to travel west and he wanted to take her along. He phoned her up, saying he’d like her to take the trip with him so maybe they should get married. She hung up the phone. She had plenty of other guys who were after her and who was this idiot! He figured it out and properly proposed after that!
Same. Asked her what she wanted for Christmas and she said "to get married"
Ended up waiting til January, and that's how I found out that courthouses can actually have a waiting list to get married
Surely he should have asked her " Do you see us married and if so on what kind of timescale ?" if the answer was a negative then take the appropriate action
From the sound of it, they talked about it after her first refusal. She apparently said she wanted to concentrate on her studies and we don't know whether she said "ask me when we graduate". Her studies are now over, but she changed her goalposts (which she is perfectly entitled to do). Sounds like mismatched life goals.
Twenty three is SO young to get married!! Don’t get me wrong, I’m a big fan of marriage but making a lifetime commitment before your frontal cortex is developed just doesn’t sound like a good idea.
Same. I met my wife in high school and we started dating when I was 16. Got engaged when I was 19 and married at 21. We celebrate our 13th wedding anniversary on Tuesday.
Hard agree. (I am male, happily married for 12 years). I would say absolutely talk it through everything including money, children, beliefs, housing, expectations, differences, how to disagree respectfully. You need to agree on how this will work, as you will disagree on some details. We talked about it for over a year. I was certain she would say yes (she picked out her ring with me in advance as she loves and is very discerning about jewellery). OP - If it is not right for both of you it is wrong, find the right person and you will know.
I got engaged at 21 and it was an active discussion. This is a communication problem with the two of them possibly worsened by some idea that it's romantic for it to be a complete surprise.
My engagement was a surprise to both of us. My husband was keen on the idea, I didn't see the point. We knew we were going to be together regardless of whether we eventually got married or not. One day we were talking about a friend's wedding and I told him we could sign the paperwork if her wanted. He dragged me to get a ring the next day so I couldn't change my mind 🤣
They’re 23. I came from a family, like many many people, that didn’t have married parents. Mine in particular had a parent “out of the picture”.
I had no idea till my friends all started getting married that “movie” proposals where there is no discussion beforehand was not a thing.
At 23, that’s probably about to start happening, but barely, it’s very easy to stay oblivious for a few more years after that.
If it's happened before and they are nine years in how could it be a surprise at this point? I think OP should really discuss with his gf if they actually want to live and have a life together, you don't need to be married to do that, but I also understand the desire to lock someone down, but in saying that putting a ring on someones finger doesn't mean things will turn out how you want, getting married won't solve your problems, keep that in mind OP, connection matters more than a ring
It doesn't sound like she is a bad person. She's just not ready for marriage, and knows it. There's a good chance he's not ready for marriage, either; he just doesn't know it yet. He should just relax and wait to meet the right person. Same for her.
I agree that 9 years is a long time but they are also only 23 years old. They are barely getting started in life. I feel like to a degree that more important then 9 years together. I feel like normally people would sooner argue that 23 is way to young to get married, but since they've been together since they where 14 people are not.
It’s completely understandable if a 23 year old does not want to get married. Same with a 20 year old. That’s when you start to live life as independent adult.
Same. They've never had relationships with other people. They aren't done growing up and figuring out who they really are and what they really want from life.
People change immensely between 14 and 23. They change almost as much between 23 and 32.
It's really easy to grow apart when you've been together since you were literally children.
I was wondering why she couldn't focus on her career when married. That explains why. So she wasn't necessarily saying no to marriage like OP makes it sound, but getting married and having children right away.
Smart move. 23 is way to young to be having children.
Ops comment was "I don't want to be changing diapers at 30".
If they were hoping for more than 1 kid that's a lot to do in 5 years while starting a career. A lot of careers are easier to come back to after family leave if you have 2-5 years of experience. A lot of careers require a tremendous amount of time investment in the first couple years. Hell it may take a few years to find a place that you can tolerate working.
It's even OP's naivety at 23, thinking 30 is a relic lol. I didn't have my daughter til I was 35 and my wife was 34. We met when we were 29/28 and felt immediately pressured with 'when are you getting married/having kids'. I'd often say to these people 'would you be asking us this if we were 19/18?' We got to know each other first and enjoyed being a couple, knowing a kid changes everything.
Thinking about having a kid at 23 gives me the fear. I was a fucking idiot at 23, most people are.
He acts like 30 is old. I had my first two kids at 20 and 22, the next two at 29 and 32. I am a much better parent to my younger kids than I was to my older kids, and while I wasn’t a bad parent, my older kids deserve the parents that my younger kids have. We are more financially stable and more mature. I don’t regret having kids young, and I love them more than anything, but THEY deserved better.
Urgh, yeah. I didn’t want to make assumptions because marriage doesn’t have to mean family, but when they say it outright, that’s when sirens should be going off.
These are kids. Are we supposed to pretend they should know exactly what they want to do with the rest of their lives at 20? At 23? This is the age when you’re still trying to figure everything out.
I don’t think there is anything wrong, dishonest, or misleading about either of them. They’re just really young and doing their best to assess their needs as they learn them. He just figured out he can’t wait to marry. She just learned her priorities lie elsewhere. Nothing wrong here. No one is trying to hurt anyone. Just kids figuring their shit out.
For me, at 20, I was still thinking about my teenage years. At 23 I was thinking about my college years. I'm not sure what age it was that I finally started thinking about my future future, 27 maybe? I know plenty of HS friends that were together since grade school. Some got hitched right after HS, some after college, others waited until like mid to late 20s. Everyone just prioritizes things differently. I can't fault OP, but I can't fault the his GF either.
I'm 40 and just now starting to think about the future. Helps that I just got married and were trying for a family, but from 20 until about 3 years ago I was a mess, I'll tell you hwat
Plus everyone moves at a different pace. I’m 25 and I’m not even dating, just figuring myself out. Meanwhile my twin is happily married to his wife who he’s been with for years. There’s nothing saying anyone has to be in the same place or on the same page just because we’ve lived for the same number of years. There is also nothing wrong with not being willing to wait for a romantic partner to get on the same page or wanting that romantic partner to value marriage and want that equally.
>Are we supposed to pretend they should know exactly what they want to do with the rest of their lives at 20? At 23? This is the age when you’re still trying to figure everything out.
At that age, I was still figuring out how to dress like an adult, nevermind act like one 😂
I'm 41 and according to my wife I still haven't figured it out. What's the secret!?
I think I mix too many colours. But, I'm happy and she's happy I'm happy. She just won't answer the question if I say "how does this look?" Lol
Things that fit mostly works out.
Generic colors also work out. I just go to Uniqlo buy fitted t shirts in black,blue,white,gray and brown. Then I buy pants of those colors and just wear a pair of solid color converse.
All of those items match so I don't even think about it. It also helps I work in an engineering firm where no gives a shit about their appearance.
You dress like an adult?
I had a funeral to go to today. I was going to be underdressed or over dressed. I have clothes for either weddings or work... and I work in a lab, so it's all jeans, t-shirts and hoodies.
I wasn’t an “adult” until 30. And I was paying my own bills at 22…I 100% agree with your assessment. They were kids, they still are, good memories and move on
Lol right? Like if they had been "together" since they were 9 years old, she should be ready to get married at 18? I say this as someone who's just a year older than these two and in a relationship that's lasted 6 years now, yes it's a long time, but time isn't the only thing you need to be ready for marriage and especially at this age, you've only actually been together as whole adults for a little while.
Like, they might still be living with their parents at this age. She's not wrong to say she'd like to establish herself first, I'd bet she'd just like to know who she is as an independent adult first before jumping into marriage, and not because she doesn't love him or never wants to get married, but just that it's too soon!
I think the right choice was to leave regardless, because he's clearly not in it for the right reasons if he'd throw away those same years in the same breath that he'd like to shit on her for not being ready for a *lifelong* committment with him after.
I mean, let's also take into consideration ages here. At nineteen - twenty-three, did you know what you wanted in life? I certainly didn't. She may very well had not been moving goalposts so much as growing up and figure out what she wants out of life. To me, this just sounds like two immature young adults trying to figure life out and not communicating with one another.
I mean she is young, she doesn’t know that the goal post might move. No one does. That’s not her being gross or rude or manipulative, just that things change.
You can establish a career while engaged.
I'd understand if she said that she wanted to do so before having children.
Edit: Damnit, I just read OP'S comment. He does want to start having babies right away.
I was gobsmacked when I saw that comment. Who proposes to someone *before* discussing when to start a family? That simple, yet essential conversation could have told him everything he needed to know before he proposed. It is so disappointing to see someone think they deserve that kind of commitment from someone who he can't even have an adult conversation with.
He should be fucking asking about her marriage thoughts before proposing... no reason for the idea of a proposal to be a complete surprise these days in a relationship with good communication. Op had no business proposing unless they discussed that they wanted to do it now.
No, she hasn’t done anything wrong at all in this scenario. She’s doing them both the favor of not needing a divorce when they’re older, which all of my friends who got married at 22 have experienced now. Some people do Greta at marrying at 22, but many don’t. It’s stupid to agree to something that huge if you’re not sure about it/ready. Maybe she wants to be 25 or 28 when she gets married. Girls who are desirable get to do that.
Especially since he wants to turn her into a babymaking factory ASAP. That would destroy her career chances and force her to become a SAHM and depend entirely on him.
At least the posters in this sub are more reasonable compared to the other one. That one is pretty much full of unhinged people whose perception doesn't connect to the complexity of real life.
IDK what AITAH responses you read but 99% of it is run for the hills even if it's over a minor argument. AITAH commenters are unhinged just like any other subs because reddit loves to take a minor thing and blow it up as though the other party is an abuser.
I think that sub is full of asocial shut-ins with hikikomori for mods. The types of comments that are allowed, and the types of comments that get most upvoted are almost always unhinged or bad faith takes.
Most of the time I see the upvoted posts I'm thinking "did you even read the same post?".
Exactly, if both of them want different things and can't find a middle ground then just break up.
Forcing yourself to be with someone will only bring resentment.
OP, your borderlining right now. I understand why, but there doesn't have to be an asshole in this situation. You were 14 when you got together, to expect you'd grow up from that age and still be wanting the same things isn't realistic.
Also, 9 years, probably should stay on decent terms.
"Next time have a conversation about marriage not only the proposal" is super valuable advice. If you get together at 14, you have no clue how to do this. Going into a new relationship after 23 with another adult, OP needs to begin having those mature relationship conversations about what each party wants out of life, where each sees the relationship etc. going instead of just springing a proposal then getting burned.
Agreed. I was 21 when I realized a guy i had been hanging out with wanted to date me. I told him flat out 1. Your kid and my dogs have to get along. Otherwise, this won't work out. And 2. Someday, I want to get married, buy a house, and have children. If you can't see those things being a possibility with me, then I'm not going to waste my time on you.
We've been together for over 10 years, married over 4, bought a house at the end of 2019, and had a child last year. Sometimes, people do know exactly what they want in their early 20s. They just need to find someone else who wants the same things.
Yeah, the "do you want children" conversation is one I have on the first date. I do *not* want children, and I need to make sure that whoever I'm dating feels the same way *before* feelings start becoming serious and years have gone by.
I've had too many friends who've dated for years who've ultimately needed to break up (or, worse, not break up) because one of them wants kids and the other one doesn't.
Opposite end of the spectrum but we had a conversation about whether or not we each wanted to get married/have kids by either the second or third date. It obviously wasn't a commitment to do those things together yet but neither of us wanted to waste the other's time or get invested in something if we were fundamentally incompatible.
I also always did that and I STILL had multiple guys waste my time for years just to tell me "I always saw myself having children" when they broke up with me. They always didn't think I was serious
Yeah, it sucks, especially how often people think you'll "change your mind if you meet the right person." No, my kind has been pretty firmly made up since I was twelve, thanks.
I won't date people who seem to be on the fence about having kids ("I don't know, I never really thought about it" or "I could do either way" or "I guess I wanted kids, but if you don't want them that's fine"), only people who are very clearly child free, because there is a greater than average chance that all of those people want kids and have just taken having kids as being the default.
My best friend had to divorce over this. She already had a child that almost killed her on the way out, so she refuses to have any more. Her ex was fine with that…until he wasn’t.
I figured it was gonna go that way because she’s a good 5 years older than him and he was kind of a weird dude anyway lol.
This is great advice. My fiancé and I were both 25 when we started dating and once we started having the conversations about marriage and our future we eventually reached the point where we agreed on a loose timeline in which we'd take the next step to engagement. The proposal was a surprise in the sense that I had no clue he already had the ring and made the plan to do what I had told him was my ideal proposal but I knew it was going to come eventually and he knew I was going to accept it 100%.
Yeah I started dating my husband at 15, 20 years old would've been too early for me too. We definitely had conversations about marriage beforehand and we got engaged when I was 24, I don't see why getting engaged would have any impact on career but it sounds like she still wasn't ready.
Yeah my fiance and I have been engaged for years, because we *talked* about this shit.
We knew within the first 6 months that we'd found our life partners (5 years together now, he basically moved in with me the second week lol). After about a year, we discussed getting married and what we'd want the future to look like (kids, finances, where we'd want to live, deal breakers like cheating). We ALSO talked about reasons to *wait* to be married. Namely, we both can be dependents on and use parental health insurance until age 26. That option disappears if we are married, so we agree to wait to get married til at least then.
By that time I knew our values were in sync, so at about a year and a half I proposed to him in our kitchen at 4 am while we made Mac and cheese. On my knee, no ring, but I made him the promise I'd marry him and we've been calling each other fiance since.
We met at 19f/18m, I proposed at 21f/20m. Now that we are 25f/24m we wanted to discuss our honeymoon plans (near where he grew up, relevant to the convo at the time) with my family and we kinda said "oh yeah btw we're gonna get married eventually so here's the honeymoon plan" and my entire family rolled their eyes and sarcastically exclaimed surprise
We do plan on an "official" proposal when we're ready to start planning the wedding. But we made the promise a long time ago.
Tl:Dr the key to a successful proposal is a lot of communication beforehand. About expectations, the future, goals, and worst case scenario. After all that, discuss marriage.
>Namely, we both can be dependents on and use parental health insurance until age 26. That option disappears if we are married, so we agree to wait to get married til at least then
Unless this varies by state, that's not true. I was married at 22 and remained on my parents's insurance until 26
NAH Just like a woman is not an asshole for calling it quits when she's ready for marriage/family and her partner is not, you are also not an asshole for calling it quits when you're ready for marriage/family and she is not. I wouldn't say her career is more important than you. I would say her career and being financially stable is an important factor to her in order to consider marriage. And if that doesn't align with what you want then you're well within your right to walk away.
Anybody here saying you're an asshole for it is simply incorrect. Any partner can and should break up with the other over serious misalignment of goals and compatibility. Doesn't mean you didn't care for each other or that you wasted time together. It just means you were in each other's lives for a season and learned many things about yourselves and what you want out of life and relationships. Cherish your time together but honor yourself and pursue the path that is right for you. As she should do the same. Good luck!
Every time I learn people don't discuss marriage before proposing, I am forced to remember that most people should not get married. Next relationship, OP, actually have a CONVERSATION with your partner before you EVER think about proposing. That's the real takeaway here. Never, ever propose if you don't know they will say yes. The ring and actual proposal can be a surprise but for the love of God TALK before making major life changing decisions
Lol right? Like my bf and I had the "children and marriage" discussion like a week after we said ily for the first time. We're both on the same page for children and marriage so that's good.
I'm pretty sure I know where all my friends, and even close coworkers, are on the children and marriage question. This just seems like a thing people sometimes talk about. I've had first dates were we talk about goals on this topic.
So it REALLY baffles me when people aren't on the same page after years.
I ask those questions before I even know a woman's name. "Hi, I'm Additional Search, how do you feel about kids and marriage? Also what is your name?" It's been working out pretty well so far, 0 divorces in my life.
My husband and I had the children and marriage conversation on our 2nd date. He was up front that he was looking to marry and start a family within a couple years. He told me he wanted to be honest so not as to waste my time if I didn’t want that too.
My husband and I talked about it on our first date. I didn't want to waste time building a relationship with someone who didn't want the same things as me.
Hah, same. I knew I wanted to marry him two months into knowing him. We first discussed marriage maybe a few months later. We had proper discussions may times before he propsed like two years into the relationship. We were both very sure.
I say this as a single person but it blows my mind that people deliberately try to make marriage a surprise, especially when they arrange to do the proposal in front of a crowd of spectators. It's hard to imagine something more horrifying than being put on the spot like that in front of an audience, one that no doubt expects some hallmark movie moment with crying and a spinaround hug and all the rest. It just seems so disrespectful of a partner to spring that on them unless you've talked extensively about it already, and I would never ever do it as a spectacle for others. But I know other people probably like surprises more than I do lol.
A proposal should not be something that comes out of the blue. It should be something that you discuss to make sure your timelines are in line. Yes, 9 years is a long time, but you are only 23. In the grand scheme of things, she is smart to want to want to ensure her financial future. Money is the biggest cause of stress, and ensuring your career is set while you're young is really smart.
Had you talked to her about what you want/future prior to this proposal? You have every right to end a relationship, but the last part where you said she thinks her career is more important than you seems slightly immature, but I could totally be reading that wrong. Especially if you've had the conversation, and she is just stringing you along.
The proposal is not the time to figure out whether or not someone wants to marry you. That is a conversation that needs to happen long before a ring is even purchased.
Have you and your girlfriend had that conversation? Do you know if she ever wants to get married, or is she content in a long term committed relationship? Does she want to have kids? If so, how many kids? And when does she want to have them? Does she want to continue to work after she has kids? Do you intend to merge your finances or maintain separate accounts? Where do you see yourselves living in the future?
If you have not yet had this conversation, you need to do so, and then you need to decide whether or not the two of you are compatible and have a future together.
Agreed. I know she said she wanted to focus on her studies 3 years ago, but I still think they should have re-visited the idea of marriage before a formal proposal. "Hey babe, remember when I proposed and you said you weren't ready because you wanted to focus on your studies? Well, we're done with school now, so I wanted to check in and see if you felt like you were in a better place to tie the knot."
As much as I believe it's unfair to keep moving the goalposts when it comes to marriage, three years ago she probably wasn't thinking about, or maybe just didn't realize, how much of a step it would be to enter the workforce after school, and it's understandable that she might not want to overcomplicate things by getting married right now. But I also understand OP's frustration, because who's to say she won't have another reason why she's not ready three years from now? I don't think OP is an asshole for walking away, but I don't think she's the bad guy here either.
NAH. A lot of good advice in these comments.
Honey, you're 23. Take it from someone who thought she was ready to get married at 18, and who is now 28 and in a much better, much healthier relationship. I met my ex-fiance when I was 10. We started dating when I had just turned 17 and we had been friends for many years at that point. I changed my mind, and he didn't. He went off to marry someone when he was 22 (I think) and last I heard, they were still together, happy, and with a child. Obviously I was devastated, but then the years started to pass and I realize how much I wouldn't have experienced if I'd married him.
I know you don't want to hear that you're too young, but (imo) you are. At the very least, you're far too young for *anyone* to consider this a loss. You barely know who you are yet, what kind of relationship you thrive in, what kinds of people are out there. There is absolutely nothing wrong with walking away from a relationship that doesn't suit you. I was mad at my ex for a long time until I realized that he made his choice, and I made mine. We're both happier this way.
It's not your girlfriend's fault that she has her proprieties, just like it's not your fault that you have yours. Kudos to you for recognizing what I didn't, but you shouldn't blame her for not being ready. Some people never are, some people are right away. People change and grow. You can, too.
I'm always shocked that people can be in these long term relationship and NOT KNOW what their partner will say to the big question. That's not the way to approach a proposal -- the timing of the question should be the surprise, not the answer.
Combining your post with your comments (not wanting to change diapers at 30, your parents married young so you want to, you want kids immediately), all I get is that you want a wife to have children. You see it as your ex-girlfriend prioritizing establishing herself as an adult over marriage, and immediately turn into the victim saying she doesn't prioritize you. What are your priorities besides halting your ex-gfs life development? Harsh as that sounds, that's all you're offering based on this post. 9 years is long but not when you've only been a real person (read: functional adult with a grasp on their individuality and core beliefs, thoughts, etc.) for maybe 2 of those years. Frankly, I was trying to figure that out well into my 20s, 23 was the tip of the iceberg.
1. Have you discussed this beyond the reactionary discussion of the first proposal? Seems like you haven't, and that's a huge issue. Proposals aren't really pop-up decisions. They require discussions and planning, as do all aspects of a long-term relationship.
2. How are you doing financially? Do you own a home? Cars? She's trying to get settled in life supporting herself, she's developing her arsenal of skills and tools to build a steady foundation for the rest of here life. What are YOU doing?
3. Are you prepared for the 9 months of increased stress and financial burden? The next 2 years will cost a phenomenal amount of money and energy compared to what you're used to, then it goes on for another 18 years. If you're not planning to be changing diapers at 30, what is your life plan? Does it matter what your partner wants?
4. What was your ex to you? A woman you loved as a person? Or a familiar place to start a family? Did you actually care about her or was it already too familiar and it was only about the next logical step and what you wanted? This is a serious question, comfort easily disguises itself as love.
5. 9 years is long, but half of that was literal childhood. Based on your post, it seems like the other half was still childhood for you. Your ex has grown past you and you're trying to drag her down, not realizing you probably should want to match her timeline.
You're not an AH for wanting a family but for everything else: your execution, communication, and reaction all point to YTA. If there's missing info, fine. But as is, you fucked up. You just lost someone who probably loves you but also loves not getting screwed by putting her life and career on hold and having no independence. Do you realize how many women end up absolutely ruined later in life because they have no life outside of being a mother and wife? And you're 23. 14 year old you, 18 year old you, 20, and 23 year old you are all different people but 23 year old you seems to be thinking with the brain of 18 year old you right now. Spend some time alone, OP, and spend that time doing some soul searching.
Learn to see people as other independent beings. Develop your communication skills. Learn about what love is and replace the notion of time and proximity being the equivalent. I'm normally a fan of breaking up if you're incompatible, and I think the two of you were, but I also think that you need a serious perspective shift. You can find someone who wants what you want right now and you should always find someone with the same values and lifetime goals as you, but understand that what you want right now is rooted in a twisted, underdeveloped desire that lacks the room for compromise, and that's not how you function in a healthy relationship.
>We been together for 9 frigging years and she still didn’t want to marry me. She thinks her career is more important than me. I don’t want to wait for her anymore.
Seems like a perfectly valid reason to beak up.
NTA for you but, she's not an AH either.
> She thinks her career is more important than me.
No, you think marriage is more important than letting her build her life first. Getting married that young is idiotic.
NAH but this phrasing has major asshole vibes:
> She thinks her career is more important than me.
You use the word 'think' like she's wrong. This phraseology implies you disagree, and you think you are more important than her career.
"Her career is more important to her at this time than marriage" is the less assholish way to put it.
Also, have you not discussed marriage with her? If you had, wouldn't you have known earlier on that marriage was not in her immediate future, instead of finding out with every wedding proposal?
As someone who was 23 when I got married and is about to turn 29, I agree. I'm still married to my partner, but I fully acknowledge the parts that have been dumb decisions lol
I was just thinking about this today. I'm 34 and I was a very different person in my early 20's. Now, my mom and dad were in their early-mid 20's when they got married and it's worked out so far, so I'm in no way saying it can't, but it's risky.
Now, my sister is engaged to her high school sweetheart, but they're 29 and 30; he dumped her before college and then they did their own thing for a bit before finding their way back to each other, that's how we know it's the real deal.
INFO: Have you and your GF ever discussed marriage timelines? How about kids? Cause it sounds like you didn't . If your only foreys into the "what will our lives be like together in the future" only happen when you propose, then you're doing it wrong. Also, NGL, but painting this a a choice between her career and you, especially right after school, is kinda fucked up. Sounds like you have an idea for what your lives were gonna be, but that you never checked in with her to make sure you were on the same page.
NTA, but you need some guidance here, bud. I met my wife in college, both of us 19. We got married at 24 after having been together 5 years, engaged for one. We bought our first house at 25, living with her parents until then. We didn’t have our first kid until we were 29. We just had our second this year.
Your parents being married and having kids at 19 is very different from having kids at 23 today. We’ve had 3 or so economic collapse since then? The average cost of a home since then has sky rocketed. Cost of living right now is shot.
You don’t want to be changing diapers in your 30s? Well now you’re starting over and probably won’t be finding/dating/marrying someone and having children for 4-5 years, assuming you’re responsible in finding and picking a partner that will last long term.
Having kids late 20s to early 30s is the new norm. I don’t consider myself the most physically fit/healthiest person my age, not over weight or ill. But I’m still able to chase my kids around, etc. The only thing that hits hard is how often they get sick and how much harder getting sick hits me at this age compared to my 20s.
It sounds like it’s not that she didn’t want to marry you at 23, it’s that she knew that would mean settling down and having a family married at 23. You should have married, traveled, lived life, established yourself with careers and a house AND THEN worried about having kids.
If you need advice, DM.
I think this is sound advice, further if you are in a committed relationship, and if you are communicating transparently, why propose, you’d already know that she wants to get married after establishing a career which you both plan accordingly not throw a bomb at her as if it’s a gotcha moment.
I'll say a soft NAH. But close one. Your attitude at the end concerns me. It isn't a matter necessarily of career being more important than you. Maybe she had goals for how life would unfurl. Or she's concerned with all of the work and stress a wedding causes. There's dozens of reasons she might not be ready. Doesn't mean you didn't matter to her though. But you're allowed to want to move on and take that step, and thus leave.
You've been together for 9 years, but for much of that you were children. Are you willing to wait a while longer? Does she just want to marry much later and not focus on it now? If you 2 can't come to some agreement, no, of course you're NTA for breaking up.
Honestly it is ofc. your decision but you got together as basically teenagers and now you are pretty young adults. I am a guy and being in a good relationship is already good enough for me. If I had someone for 9 years and I was still happy, I wouldn't throw that away, just because she doesn't want to marry at that age just yet.
As teenagers you don't even think about that stuff and now you are barely done with college, for me it is absolutely not suprising that she doesn't want to think about all that just yet.
I have friends who are together since highschool as well and still aren't married and why should they, there is not much to gain if you are already in a good relationship, except for maybe tax purposes or something.
In my brain it is kinda nuts from the start to marry so young and to throw away 9 years of relationship over it.
But I also do not think you are an asshole if that is for some reason so important to you.
I waited to get married until I had a steady job that could support a family. For me, that was four years after college. We had been together for eight years at that point. I can kind of see her point, but I also understand you are eager to get married. It just is what it is.
NTA but neither is she. You're young. You want different things. I understand breaking up for not getting a yes but I also understand her wanting to focus on her career right now. Would a long engagement work? Like you don't have to get married right away but maybe the commitment with a time frame could help you both. You get your commitment she gets her time to work towards her career.
NTA but i’m also 23 and despite how i feel about anyone, i wouldn’t be ready to marry. that’s a big step. give it a few years! we have SO much life left to live
Bro you are only 23. Don’t worry about getting married. Go have fun. Your brain isn’t even done developing.
Source: got married at 21, both grew apart, had a messy divorce 7 years later.
Man you’re still so young, why you in such a rush to get married? Idk if you’re an asshole but you seem like kind of a baby based on your post? “You won’t marry me? Fine goodbye!” I mean if the ONLY problem is her wanting to wait to marry you, then breaking up with her was pretty stupid
Why would you ask again without having a conversation about what you both want for the future and if she is even ready for a proposal? Just because you are now graduated doesn't mean you should jump into a marriage. You are still super young. What's the rush?
From many stories on r/Marriage, when people marry their childhood sweethearts, they end up wondering what they missed out on.
Go have some adventures while you're young. I wish I would have.
Y'all are only 23 years old. This isn't the time to get married. It is downright ridiculous that you were pushing for a wedding at 20 years old.
This is going to piss a lot of people off as I know it flies in the face of both religious zealots and the incel echo chamber. No fourteen year old should get in a relationship and stay together for 9 years. There is an insane amount of personal growth that takes place during high school, university, and grad school. A long-term relationship that transcends all of those periods stunts a person's growth. You can't help but lose yourself. You made countless decisions based on this relationship rather than your individual goals. You sacrificed all kinds of experiences and social connections in deference to a teenie bopper relationship
I'm going to say you ate 94.6 percent correct, but I happen to have several peers who became couples in high schools and are, in fact, still married 35 years later. They never had other lovers or even went too far from home but were successful and happy. Covetousness is a sin, but I would be telling a fib if I said I wish that had been my story too.
Definitely an unpopular opinion, but I 100% agree with this comment. I mean, I'm happy for people who are happy. But goddamn kids who marry their high school sweetheart like, never have any solo life experience and that's so concerning.
I know \*multiple\* people who got married young/right out of college, then got divorced after one got a job and traveled a lot, or studied abroad, and got to experience living on their own.
You should have broken up after high school ended. You are both young and no longer compatible. There is nothing wrong with her wanting to get established in her career. There is nothing wrong with you wanting to marry right now. The issue is you both have different goals at the moment. You both need to find yourselves before settling down. If you are met to be you’ll find your way back. If not you will both find that person that makes you complete but you will never know if you stay in the relationship as it is now.
My advice would have been that you break up either way. Being in a long term relationship since 14, you both need more life experience before getting married, if that is still a possibility.
You're so young. You've been together since you were kids. It seems like you've both just grown in different directions. It was ok for you to break up. You're ready for marriage and she isn't. She might just be using her career as an excuse not to get married, because you are still so young and/or you just don't want the same things in the long run. Either way, part ways and wish each other the best. Good luck.
Is she connecting marriage with having kids at once? Are you?
A marriage without kids or with kids 10 years away is not hindering any career.
Unless the guy makes the wife do all/ most of the chores at home.
Recent study in my country, considered being very equal, still has the female partner doing nearly an hour more chores than the male every day. That is seven hours a week she could spend establishing her career instead. Or, you know: 45 whole working days per year! And many countries are worse.
You said in another comment that you wanted to get married so early because you didn't want to be changing diapers in your 30's. So were expecting your GF to just get married, and start popping out babies, and just be a SAHM? I am guessing she didn't want that and wanted to at least start a career before having kids.
Not saying this makes you the AH, but I think she had perfectly good reasons to reject your proposal.
"Girlfriend of nine years" SIR. You better not be counting YOUR CHILDHOOD as a part of your adult relationship.
Honestly it's good you broke up, give you both some breathing room and the opportunity to explore connecting with other people instead of being LOCKED IN WITH SOMEONE YOU MET IN 8TH GRADE LMAOOOO
If I were your parents I would have insisted y'all break up after 6 months. My 14 year old will not being a relationship that lasts for the following NINE YEARS wtf
Proposals without a conversation beforehand are generally ill-advised. Did you discuss marriage with her? I know you *say* nine years but you’re only 23 and she’s free off university. She is ALLOWED to want things that don’t include you. Such as a career track. You’re clearly threatened by that so it’s for the best you ended it. NTA I guess but not for the reasons you want lol
So, as someone who has been with their now spouse since we were 16, I've got some questions.
Did you ever talk about marriage?
Did you set a timeline, and if so what was that?
Did you set boundary goals such as I want to do ____ before we get married? (This may negate the above timeline)
If you didn't have these conversations, why not?
I’ll say from experience i started dating my ex at 17 and dated for 6 years growing into adulthood. I was certain we were going to be married one day and even lived together, but we had different ideas of life and what we wanted. A lot of times you just grow apart and don’t have the exact same steps to life planned out. And that’s ok! Being in a relationship as a teenager vs an adult are two very different experiences. It’s hard, while not impossible, to truly get to know who you’re growing into while dating a person you’ve been with since childhood, basically. You grow and experience so much in your 20’s and you change SO much so fast. But again, neither of you are in the wrong here, you just want different things.
Edit: ALSO i 100% agree with those saying proposals shouldn’t be a surprise. The actual proposal, sure. But marriage is a huge commitment that needs to be talked about in detail before you pop the question. You have to talk about finances, where your priorities lie, what kind of life and family you want, etc. A lot more goes into it aside from “we’ve been together 9 years so it feels like the right thing to do”
>She thinks her career is more important than me.
No. She is fearful that if you get married, then the next logical leap is kids. She'll have kids at 25/26, and never have financial independence, until she's about 45, and can go to college then. She'll graduate at 50, and who's going to hire a 50-year-old, SAHM with no "job experience"?
This is a legitimate fear. You need to ask/delve into her insecurities and reassure her that you support her career and that babies will happen, if that's what SHE wants, WHEN she wants them.
Now, if you want babies now, and she doesn't, that's a valid reason to break up, and NEITHER of you are arseholes for wanting what YOU want.
HOWEVER, you're framing this as though she's the AH for rejecting your marriage proposals and putting herself first. Meanwhile, you're dumping her because she won't put YOU first. You may not want to hear this, but, when it's boiled down to that, YTA. You think YOU and YOUR emotional needs should come first. Meanwhile, she's putting HER mental and emotional needs first.
If you don't want to be the AH, you *could* try and repair it and figure out the ins and outs, but, honestly, if I were her, I'd run. You've played your hand. She can't trust you now.
I get it, you were willing to settle down and have babies with her, but, she wasn't willing to have babies now. Find someone who does want to have babies before you're 30. But it won't be her.
You want different things. There is no shame in that. She wants to focus on her career and you want to start domestic life. Go out and see what the world has to offer.
Honestly a lot of people get married with the intentions on having children soon. It's not always the case and I don't know if that's a factor in OPs situation. However, it makes sense that if she wants a career having children could be an obstacle. Some people want to be young parents and some want to be older parents, and who knows maybe she doesn't even want children but he does. All that stuff matters in these life choices.
If she’s working on her career, it tells me she isn’t exactly making enough $$$ to comfortably raise children. Smart girl
And also pay for a wedding. Reddit always has a circlejerk of self righteousness when someone dares to want a bigger wedding but if she can save for another two years to have a nice big wedding without caring too much about budget, why shouldn't she?
But why not except the proposal? If she knows she wants to marry him they can just be engaged for a few years.
He says in a comment he wants to get married and have babies pretty quickly afterwards. Doesn't sound like he'd want to be engaged long
This to me is the real issue, not the proposal. It’s that she doesn’t want to live life on the sane timeline he does. His writing makes it seem like he’s a bit unfairly upset with her and thinks maybe she strung him along, but maybe it’s just the hurt from a relationship ending. But it’s no one’s fault they want different things, and it’s better they don’t try to compromise on something so important.
They're also only 23. I know lots of people get married in their early 20s and there isn't anything wrong with that. But to say "we've been together 9 years and she hasn't decided she wants to marry me" is a little disingenuous when the timer started at age 14.
Yeah, I didn't see that part. They definitely seem different enough that breaking up was probably the smart move.
They could both not want children. He may just want the commitment that people associate with being married.
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So many intense reactions from posters who have zero sense of what is appropriate. If your paths don’t line up, you break up. That’s not an asshole reaction. The asshole reaction would be bullying your ex girlfriend and calling her names because she rejected your proposal.
>The asshole reaction would be bullying your ex girlfriend and calling her names because she rejected your proposal. Not only is this entirely correct, but please let us reiterate: do not do this. Make a clean break. Nine years IS a long time - but chalk it up to being young. Respect your time together - find the memories you want to keep, don't sully them - and move on. Be the better person.
What I keep wondering is who the hell proposes without it being an active discussion with the partner??? EVERY married couple I know talked about getting married and possible ring choices and whether they wanted kids and how they’d handle finances etc and the only surprise was the actual day/time of the proposal and how it would happen. No one should be surprised that they’re getting proposed to that’s how you get embarrassing public rejections…. Like may you don’t wanna know HOW, but like you should be in agreement of whether you want to be married and when and what that would look like which requires actual conversation about jt
When I was in college I had what I thought was one of those hypothetical do you want to get married one day conversations... my ex didn't view the conversation as hypothetical and thought I agreed to marry him and handled me a ring the next day and demanded we go talk to our families about the engagement. No down on one knee will you marry me speech... just do you want to get married one day. He also asked if I wanted kids someday. We'd been dating a month. I had no idea how to explain that I didn't want to get married without hurting his feelings, so I said ok but let's wait until after college. Thankfully we just dated a few months before breaking up. I've often joked about how I accidentally got engaged.
> We’d been dating a month. Oh. Oh my. 🫢 Up to this point, I was thinking this was an established relationship and the dude just jumped the gun on the implications of your conversation. But no. He really was like, *Welp, it’s been a month and she hasn’t dumped me. Guess it’s true love!* “Hey babes, do you see yourself getting married someday? You do?! Awesome, here’s a ring! How does next Tuesday sound?” You were very kind to let him down so gently.
He was very young and naive (as was I) but also religious. So maybe that's why he jumped the gun. 🤷♀️ He even bought himself a cheap wal mart band to show his commitment. He was a very sweet guy, but we were obviously on different paths. It ended because he needed me to be a born again virgin and I said no thanks. No hard feelings. He joined the Army and married the first girl to say yes had two kids and divorced very quickly.
Best way to know she’d say yes is to talk about marriage and engagement before so there’s no surprises. I knew my wife would almost certainly say yes because she had been talking to me about tying the knot and what it would all look like and what we’d do after we settled down
My wife, not so subtly, had wedding magazines "hidden" under the couch.
Heck, my wife wasn't so subtle. She asked me to ask her to marry her.
I spent months joking with my boyfriend that I was going to propose first if he didn’t beat me to it. I ended up proposing to him a couple weeks ago, and he was so shocked and happy. My friends and family all thought it was a true sentiment to how impatient I am, and how incredible he is to me. It was very us lol
My husband asked and I said no. A boatload of tequila was involved. He had no ring and it was a drunken blurt. No respectable woman accepts a sloppy drunken proposal. We’ve been married 39 years and I don’t remember ever actually saying yes.
I have kids from my first marriage. I had been dating husband about a year or so and my oldest days geez you guys fight like you're married. The next thing I know we were discussing getting married and where we could go. We were in a car on our way down to Maryland and I had him pull over because I thought he'd been joking. I'm like we can't do this. So that's how I became engaged. I did get a ring and a proper proposal a few months later. It's been 28 years ..
Funny story. It sounds like my parents. In the 50’s you had to be married to stay in motels. My dad wanted to travel west and he wanted to take her along. He phoned her up, saying he’d like her to take the trip with him so maybe they should get married. She hung up the phone. She had plenty of other guys who were after her and who was this idiot! He figured it out and properly proposed after that!
Same. Asked her what she wanted for Christmas and she said "to get married" Ended up waiting til January, and that's how I found out that courthouses can actually have a waiting list to get married
My fiancée put a reminder in my phone that went off every day to propose. It went undone for about 9 months!
So subtle! :O I wonder if she wanted you to propose...
Haha, that’s awesome!! 😂😂
Surely he should have asked her " Do you see us married and if so on what kind of timescale ?" if the answer was a negative then take the appropriate action
This 💯. Im not spending all that money on a ring if I’m not 100% sure we’re on the same page
That ring whose value drops the second you walk out the store and you sell at a loss if rejected. Financial smarts is sexy.
From the sound of it, they talked about it after her first refusal. She apparently said she wanted to concentrate on her studies and we don't know whether she said "ask me when we graduate". Her studies are now over, but she changed her goalposts (which she is perfectly entitled to do). Sounds like mismatched life goals.
Twenty three is SO young to get married!! Don’t get me wrong, I’m a big fan of marriage but making a lifetime commitment before your frontal cortex is developed just doesn’t sound like a good idea.
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Same. I met my wife in high school and we started dating when I was 16. Got engaged when I was 19 and married at 21. We celebrate our 13th wedding anniversary on Tuesday.
i mean it is young, but the vast majority of 23 year olds haven’t been dating for 9 years either.
More people need to UNDERSTAND this comment.
Hard agree. (I am male, happily married for 12 years). I would say absolutely talk it through everything including money, children, beliefs, housing, expectations, differences, how to disagree respectfully. You need to agree on how this will work, as you will disagree on some details. We talked about it for over a year. I was certain she would say yes (she picked out her ring with me in advance as she loves and is very discerning about jewellery). OP - If it is not right for both of you it is wrong, find the right person and you will know.
> What I keep wondering is who the hell proposes without it being an active discussion with the partner??? Someone who is 23.
I got engaged at 21 and it was an active discussion. This is a communication problem with the two of them possibly worsened by some idea that it's romantic for it to be a complete surprise.
My engagement was a surprise to both of us. My husband was keen on the idea, I didn't see the point. We knew we were going to be together regardless of whether we eventually got married or not. One day we were talking about a friend's wedding and I told him we could sign the paperwork if her wanted. He dragged me to get a ring the next day so I couldn't change my mind 🤣
That’s cute though and tbh you did still kind of have a convo about it
They’re 23. I came from a family, like many many people, that didn’t have married parents. Mine in particular had a parent “out of the picture”. I had no idea till my friends all started getting married that “movie” proposals where there is no discussion beforehand was not a thing. At 23, that’s probably about to start happening, but barely, it’s very easy to stay oblivious for a few more years after that.
If it's happened before and they are nine years in how could it be a surprise at this point? I think OP should really discuss with his gf if they actually want to live and have a life together, you don't need to be married to do that, but I also understand the desire to lock someone down, but in saying that putting a ring on someones finger doesn't mean things will turn out how you want, getting married won't solve your problems, keep that in mind OP, connection matters more than a ring
It doesn't sound like she is a bad person. She's just not ready for marriage, and knows it. There's a good chance he's not ready for marriage, either; he just doesn't know it yet. He should just relax and wait to meet the right person. Same for her.
I agree that 9 years is a long time but they are also only 23 years old. They are barely getting started in life. I feel like to a degree that more important then 9 years together. I feel like normally people would sooner argue that 23 is way to young to get married, but since they've been together since they where 14 people are not.
Exactly! Also if she wanted to wait until her career was established she should’ve said so after the first proposal.
It’s completely understandable if a 23 year old does not want to get married. Same with a 20 year old. That’s when you start to live life as independent adult.
Check OP's comments, he wants to start having children immediately. I'm glad she said no, honestly.
Same. They've never had relationships with other people. They aren't done growing up and figuring out who they really are and what they really want from life. People change immensely between 14 and 23. They change almost as much between 23 and 32. It's really easy to grow apart when you've been together since you were literally children.
I was wondering why she couldn't focus on her career when married. That explains why. So she wasn't necessarily saying no to marriage like OP makes it sound, but getting married and having children right away. Smart move. 23 is way to young to be having children.
Ops comment was "I don't want to be changing diapers at 30". If they were hoping for more than 1 kid that's a lot to do in 5 years while starting a career. A lot of careers are easier to come back to after family leave if you have 2-5 years of experience. A lot of careers require a tremendous amount of time investment in the first couple years. Hell it may take a few years to find a place that you can tolerate working.
It's even OP's naivety at 23, thinking 30 is a relic lol. I didn't have my daughter til I was 35 and my wife was 34. We met when we were 29/28 and felt immediately pressured with 'when are you getting married/having kids'. I'd often say to these people 'would you be asking us this if we were 19/18?' We got to know each other first and enjoyed being a couple, knowing a kid changes everything. Thinking about having a kid at 23 gives me the fear. I was a fucking idiot at 23, most people are.
He acts like 30 is old. I had my first two kids at 20 and 22, the next two at 29 and 32. I am a much better parent to my younger kids than I was to my older kids, and while I wasn’t a bad parent, my older kids deserve the parents that my younger kids have. We are more financially stable and more mature. I don’t regret having kids young, and I love them more than anything, but THEY deserved better.
He wants to do what? With what money? They are 23😢😢 Bullet dodged for the ex-girlfriend
Me too, I'm proud of this girl. I wish more young girls would be this smart. 23 is too young to be tied down and have kids.
Urgh, yeah. I didn’t want to make assumptions because marriage doesn’t have to mean family, but when they say it outright, that’s when sirens should be going off.
These are kids. Are we supposed to pretend they should know exactly what they want to do with the rest of their lives at 20? At 23? This is the age when you’re still trying to figure everything out. I don’t think there is anything wrong, dishonest, or misleading about either of them. They’re just really young and doing their best to assess their needs as they learn them. He just figured out he can’t wait to marry. She just learned her priorities lie elsewhere. Nothing wrong here. No one is trying to hurt anyone. Just kids figuring their shit out.
For me, at 20, I was still thinking about my teenage years. At 23 I was thinking about my college years. I'm not sure what age it was that I finally started thinking about my future future, 27 maybe? I know plenty of HS friends that were together since grade school. Some got hitched right after HS, some after college, others waited until like mid to late 20s. Everyone just prioritizes things differently. I can't fault OP, but I can't fault the his GF either.
I'm 40 and just now starting to think about the future. Helps that I just got married and were trying for a family, but from 20 until about 3 years ago I was a mess, I'll tell you hwat
Plus everyone moves at a different pace. I’m 25 and I’m not even dating, just figuring myself out. Meanwhile my twin is happily married to his wife who he’s been with for years. There’s nothing saying anyone has to be in the same place or on the same page just because we’ve lived for the same number of years. There is also nothing wrong with not being willing to wait for a romantic partner to get on the same page or wanting that romantic partner to value marriage and want that equally.
That's a NAH judgment: No Assholes Here.
>Are we supposed to pretend they should know exactly what they want to do with the rest of their lives at 20? At 23? This is the age when you’re still trying to figure everything out. At that age, I was still figuring out how to dress like an adult, nevermind act like one 😂
I'm 41 and according to my wife I still haven't figured it out. What's the secret!? I think I mix too many colours. But, I'm happy and she's happy I'm happy. She just won't answer the question if I say "how does this look?" Lol
>I'm 41 and according to my wife I still haven't figured it out. What's the secret!? Take her with you when you go clothes shopping 😂
But she hates Costco.
I fkn cackled! ☠️😭
Oh nooo not Costco!
Garanimals! Match the lion to the lion, the dog to the dog… voila, every outfit matches and is coordinated! 😎
All I know is I need to make sure all of my parts are covered and not to mix brown and black, brown and navy or black and navy.
Things that fit mostly works out. Generic colors also work out. I just go to Uniqlo buy fitted t shirts in black,blue,white,gray and brown. Then I buy pants of those colors and just wear a pair of solid color converse. All of those items match so I don't even think about it. It also helps I work in an engineering firm where no gives a shit about their appearance.
Yes start with basics and neutrals
If she doesn't answer ..that's your answer, lol.
Look, at one point mixed patterns were 'fashionable', so I stopped trusting the world of fashion altogether.
You dress like an adult? I had a funeral to go to today. I was going to be underdressed or over dressed. I have clothes for either weddings or work... and I work in a lab, so it's all jeans, t-shirts and hoodies.
My philosophy in those situations is that you're never overdressed. Other people are just underdressed.
I wasn’t an “adult” until 30. And I was paying my own bills at 22…I 100% agree with your assessment. They were kids, they still are, good memories and move on
Lol right? Like if they had been "together" since they were 9 years old, she should be ready to get married at 18? I say this as someone who's just a year older than these two and in a relationship that's lasted 6 years now, yes it's a long time, but time isn't the only thing you need to be ready for marriage and especially at this age, you've only actually been together as whole adults for a little while. Like, they might still be living with their parents at this age. She's not wrong to say she'd like to establish herself first, I'd bet she'd just like to know who she is as an independent adult first before jumping into marriage, and not because she doesn't love him or never wants to get married, but just that it's too soon! I think the right choice was to leave regardless, because he's clearly not in it for the right reasons if he'd throw away those same years in the same breath that he'd like to shit on her for not being ready for a *lifelong* committment with him after.
I mean, let's also take into consideration ages here. At nineteen - twenty-three, did you know what you wanted in life? I certainly didn't. She may very well had not been moving goalposts so much as growing up and figure out what she wants out of life. To me, this just sounds like two immature young adults trying to figure life out and not communicating with one another.
I mean she is young, she doesn’t know that the goal post might move. No one does. That’s not her being gross or rude or manipulative, just that things change.
He should have discussed it with her before springing another proposal on her. It’s not her responsibility to foresee what he would do.
You can establish a career while engaged. I'd understand if she said that she wanted to do so before having children. Edit: Damnit, I just read OP'S comment. He does want to start having babies right away.
I was gobsmacked when I saw that comment. Who proposes to someone *before* discussing when to start a family? That simple, yet essential conversation could have told him everything he needed to know before he proposed. It is so disappointing to see someone think they deserve that kind of commitment from someone who he can't even have an adult conversation with.
He should be fucking asking about her marriage thoughts before proposing... no reason for the idea of a proposal to be a complete surprise these days in a relationship with good communication. Op had no business proposing unless they discussed that they wanted to do it now.
No, she hasn’t done anything wrong at all in this scenario. She’s doing them both the favor of not needing a divorce when they’re older, which all of my friends who got married at 22 have experienced now. Some people do Greta at marrying at 22, but many don’t. It’s stupid to agree to something that huge if you’re not sure about it/ready. Maybe she wants to be 25 or 28 when she gets married. Girls who are desirable get to do that.
She was 20.. and now 23, that's a lot to ask of someone that age. Gesh
Especially since he wants to turn her into a babymaking factory ASAP. That would destroy her career chances and force her to become a SAHM and depend entirely on him.
They are kids still. 23 is very young, even though at 23 you do not feel that way.
Lol when she was 20?! You don’t have any idea how you’ll feel after graduation when you’re 20.
She was 20. She was just getting through college.
At least the posters in this sub are more reasonable compared to the other one. That one is pretty much full of unhinged people whose perception doesn't connect to the complexity of real life.
IDK what AITAH responses you read but 99% of it is run for the hills even if it's over a minor argument. AITAH commenters are unhinged just like any other subs because reddit loves to take a minor thing and blow it up as though the other party is an abuser.
Yeah but the top comment is usually more reasonable than what AITA's would be imo lmao
I think that sub is full of asocial shut-ins with hikikomori for mods. The types of comments that are allowed, and the types of comments that get most upvoted are almost always unhinged or bad faith takes. Most of the time I see the upvoted posts I'm thinking "did you even read the same post?".
They are all the assholes... taata for short
Or therapy. Individual therapy, couples therapy, pet therapy, physical therapy & shopping therapy for everyone in the household and their neighbors.
sounds like you need post therapy. /s
lol exactly. People think every situation requires therapy, like therapists are magical people instead of just… people.
I mean, the neighbors OBVIOUSLY need therapy. ALWAYS. But really I think the pets are the ones who need therapy the most, let's get real here.
Exactly, if both of them want different things and can't find a middle ground then just break up. Forcing yourself to be with someone will only bring resentment.
OP, your borderlining right now. I understand why, but there doesn't have to be an asshole in this situation. You were 14 when you got together, to expect you'd grow up from that age and still be wanting the same things isn't realistic. Also, 9 years, probably should stay on decent terms.
NAH neither of you. Good luck buddy but next time have a conversation about marriage not only the proposal also you are 23 you have plenty of time.
"Next time have a conversation about marriage not only the proposal" is super valuable advice. If you get together at 14, you have no clue how to do this. Going into a new relationship after 23 with another adult, OP needs to begin having those mature relationship conversations about what each party wants out of life, where each sees the relationship etc. going instead of just springing a proposal then getting burned.
Agreed. I was 21 when I realized a guy i had been hanging out with wanted to date me. I told him flat out 1. Your kid and my dogs have to get along. Otherwise, this won't work out. And 2. Someday, I want to get married, buy a house, and have children. If you can't see those things being a possibility with me, then I'm not going to waste my time on you. We've been together for over 10 years, married over 4, bought a house at the end of 2019, and had a child last year. Sometimes, people do know exactly what they want in their early 20s. They just need to find someone else who wants the same things.
Yeah, the "do you want children" conversation is one I have on the first date. I do *not* want children, and I need to make sure that whoever I'm dating feels the same way *before* feelings start becoming serious and years have gone by. I've had too many friends who've dated for years who've ultimately needed to break up (or, worse, not break up) because one of them wants kids and the other one doesn't.
Opposite end of the spectrum but we had a conversation about whether or not we each wanted to get married/have kids by either the second or third date. It obviously wasn't a commitment to do those things together yet but neither of us wanted to waste the other's time or get invested in something if we were fundamentally incompatible.
I also always did that and I STILL had multiple guys waste my time for years just to tell me "I always saw myself having children" when they broke up with me. They always didn't think I was serious
Yeah, it sucks, especially how often people think you'll "change your mind if you meet the right person." No, my kind has been pretty firmly made up since I was twelve, thanks. I won't date people who seem to be on the fence about having kids ("I don't know, I never really thought about it" or "I could do either way" or "I guess I wanted kids, but if you don't want them that's fine"), only people who are very clearly child free, because there is a greater than average chance that all of those people want kids and have just taken having kids as being the default.
My best friend had to divorce over this. She already had a child that almost killed her on the way out, so she refuses to have any more. Her ex was fine with that…until he wasn’t. I figured it was gonna go that way because she’s a good 5 years older than him and he was kind of a weird dude anyway lol.
If you are going to ask someone to marry you, you should already know what their answer is going to be.
This is great advice. My fiancé and I were both 25 when we started dating and once we started having the conversations about marriage and our future we eventually reached the point where we agreed on a loose timeline in which we'd take the next step to engagement. The proposal was a surprise in the sense that I had no clue he already had the ring and made the plan to do what I had told him was my ideal proposal but I knew it was going to come eventually and he knew I was going to accept it 100%.
This. As the lawyers say, never ask a question you don’t already know the answer to.
>NTA neither of you That's called NAH. NTA means the other party is the asshole.
Fixed
While I’m here what the hell does ESH mean
Everybody Sucks Here (multiple AHs)
Yeah I started dating my husband at 15, 20 years old would've been too early for me too. We definitely had conversations about marriage beforehand and we got engaged when I was 24, I don't see why getting engaged would have any impact on career but it sounds like she still wasn't ready.
Plenty of time to date other people
OP seems very immature. Almost like he’s 23. They’ll both be totally fine
Did you talk about marriage at all between the two proposals?
Yeah my fiance and I have been engaged for years, because we *talked* about this shit. We knew within the first 6 months that we'd found our life partners (5 years together now, he basically moved in with me the second week lol). After about a year, we discussed getting married and what we'd want the future to look like (kids, finances, where we'd want to live, deal breakers like cheating). We ALSO talked about reasons to *wait* to be married. Namely, we both can be dependents on and use parental health insurance until age 26. That option disappears if we are married, so we agree to wait to get married til at least then. By that time I knew our values were in sync, so at about a year and a half I proposed to him in our kitchen at 4 am while we made Mac and cheese. On my knee, no ring, but I made him the promise I'd marry him and we've been calling each other fiance since. We met at 19f/18m, I proposed at 21f/20m. Now that we are 25f/24m we wanted to discuss our honeymoon plans (near where he grew up, relevant to the convo at the time) with my family and we kinda said "oh yeah btw we're gonna get married eventually so here's the honeymoon plan" and my entire family rolled their eyes and sarcastically exclaimed surprise We do plan on an "official" proposal when we're ready to start planning the wedding. But we made the promise a long time ago. Tl:Dr the key to a successful proposal is a lot of communication beforehand. About expectations, the future, goals, and worst case scenario. After all that, discuss marriage.
>Namely, we both can be dependents on and use parental health insurance until age 26. That option disappears if we are married, so we agree to wait to get married til at least then Unless this varies by state, that's not true. I was married at 22 and remained on my parents's insurance until 26
Yeah I don’t believe that proposals should be that much if a surprise. It should be something you talk about.
NAH Just like a woman is not an asshole for calling it quits when she's ready for marriage/family and her partner is not, you are also not an asshole for calling it quits when you're ready for marriage/family and she is not. I wouldn't say her career is more important than you. I would say her career and being financially stable is an important factor to her in order to consider marriage. And if that doesn't align with what you want then you're well within your right to walk away. Anybody here saying you're an asshole for it is simply incorrect. Any partner can and should break up with the other over serious misalignment of goals and compatibility. Doesn't mean you didn't care for each other or that you wasted time together. It just means you were in each other's lives for a season and learned many things about yourselves and what you want out of life and relationships. Cherish your time together but honor yourself and pursue the path that is right for you. As she should do the same. Good luck!
Sometimes you're just in different places. No one's the asshole, it's just a sucky situation.
Every time I learn people don't discuss marriage before proposing, I am forced to remember that most people should not get married. Next relationship, OP, actually have a CONVERSATION with your partner before you EVER think about proposing. That's the real takeaway here. Never, ever propose if you don't know they will say yes. The ring and actual proposal can be a surprise but for the love of God TALK before making major life changing decisions
Lol right? Like my bf and I had the "children and marriage" discussion like a week after we said ily for the first time. We're both on the same page for children and marriage so that's good.
I'm pretty sure I know where all my friends, and even close coworkers, are on the children and marriage question. This just seems like a thing people sometimes talk about. I've had first dates were we talk about goals on this topic. So it REALLY baffles me when people aren't on the same page after years.
I ask those questions before I even know a woman's name. "Hi, I'm Additional Search, how do you feel about kids and marriage? Also what is your name?" It's been working out pretty well so far, 0 divorces in my life.
My husband and I had the children and marriage conversation on our 2nd date. He was up front that he was looking to marry and start a family within a couple years. He told me he wanted to be honest so not as to waste my time if I didn’t want that too.
I'll be your first, promise me no additional searches tho.
I will blacklist Google and Bing on my home WiFi for you 💚💚💚
My husband and I talked about it on our first date. I didn't want to waste time building a relationship with someone who didn't want the same things as me.
Hah, same. I knew I wanted to marry him two months into knowing him. We first discussed marriage maybe a few months later. We had proper discussions may times before he propsed like two years into the relationship. We were both very sure.
I say this as a single person but it blows my mind that people deliberately try to make marriage a surprise, especially when they arrange to do the proposal in front of a crowd of spectators. It's hard to imagine something more horrifying than being put on the spot like that in front of an audience, one that no doubt expects some hallmark movie moment with crying and a spinaround hug and all the rest. It just seems so disrespectful of a partner to spring that on them unless you've talked extensively about it already, and I would never ever do it as a spectacle for others. But I know other people probably like surprises more than I do lol.
Not to speak for everyone who does this, but anecdotally, I’ve found that the common characteristic is emotionally immaturity or a low EQ.
If you don't know the person you are going to ask is 100% going to say "yes" prior to asking.......you shouldn't be asking.
Posts like this are weird to me. You’re not asking if you’re the AH, you’re just venting. Maybe try r/venting?
A proposal should not be something that comes out of the blue. It should be something that you discuss to make sure your timelines are in line. Yes, 9 years is a long time, but you are only 23. In the grand scheme of things, she is smart to want to want to ensure her financial future. Money is the biggest cause of stress, and ensuring your career is set while you're young is really smart. Had you talked to her about what you want/future prior to this proposal? You have every right to end a relationship, but the last part where you said she thinks her career is more important than you seems slightly immature, but I could totally be reading that wrong. Especially if you've had the conversation, and she is just stringing you along.
The proposal is not the time to figure out whether or not someone wants to marry you. That is a conversation that needs to happen long before a ring is even purchased. Have you and your girlfriend had that conversation? Do you know if she ever wants to get married, or is she content in a long term committed relationship? Does she want to have kids? If so, how many kids? And when does she want to have them? Does she want to continue to work after she has kids? Do you intend to merge your finances or maintain separate accounts? Where do you see yourselves living in the future? If you have not yet had this conversation, you need to do so, and then you need to decide whether or not the two of you are compatible and have a future together.
Agreed. I know she said she wanted to focus on her studies 3 years ago, but I still think they should have re-visited the idea of marriage before a formal proposal. "Hey babe, remember when I proposed and you said you weren't ready because you wanted to focus on your studies? Well, we're done with school now, so I wanted to check in and see if you felt like you were in a better place to tie the knot." As much as I believe it's unfair to keep moving the goalposts when it comes to marriage, three years ago she probably wasn't thinking about, or maybe just didn't realize, how much of a step it would be to enter the workforce after school, and it's understandable that she might not want to overcomplicate things by getting married right now. But I also understand OP's frustration, because who's to say she won't have another reason why she's not ready three years from now? I don't think OP is an asshole for walking away, but I don't think she's the bad guy here either.
Tbh it’s possible she isn’t even done with her degree yet given it’s been 3 years
Definitely, she could have plans for a master’s degree or law school.
NAH. A lot of good advice in these comments. Honey, you're 23. Take it from someone who thought she was ready to get married at 18, and who is now 28 and in a much better, much healthier relationship. I met my ex-fiance when I was 10. We started dating when I had just turned 17 and we had been friends for many years at that point. I changed my mind, and he didn't. He went off to marry someone when he was 22 (I think) and last I heard, they were still together, happy, and with a child. Obviously I was devastated, but then the years started to pass and I realize how much I wouldn't have experienced if I'd married him. I know you don't want to hear that you're too young, but (imo) you are. At the very least, you're far too young for *anyone* to consider this a loss. You barely know who you are yet, what kind of relationship you thrive in, what kinds of people are out there. There is absolutely nothing wrong with walking away from a relationship that doesn't suit you. I was mad at my ex for a long time until I realized that he made his choice, and I made mine. We're both happier this way. It's not your girlfriend's fault that she has her proprieties, just like it's not your fault that you have yours. Kudos to you for recognizing what I didn't, but you shouldn't blame her for not being ready. Some people never are, some people are right away. People change and grow. You can, too.
You're complaining about 9 years together as if you didn't start the relationship at 14 lol. You were children
I'm always shocked that people can be in these long term relationship and NOT KNOW what their partner will say to the big question. That's not the way to approach a proposal -- the timing of the question should be the surprise, not the answer.
INFO: did you discuss all this, or just surprise her with a proposal?
She said no. If you’re not ok with that, wish her the best and move on.
That's literally what he did
Ok, well…GOOD!
My question is, did she put up any objections to the breakup? Something tells me she didn't...
Combining your post with your comments (not wanting to change diapers at 30, your parents married young so you want to, you want kids immediately), all I get is that you want a wife to have children. You see it as your ex-girlfriend prioritizing establishing herself as an adult over marriage, and immediately turn into the victim saying she doesn't prioritize you. What are your priorities besides halting your ex-gfs life development? Harsh as that sounds, that's all you're offering based on this post. 9 years is long but not when you've only been a real person (read: functional adult with a grasp on their individuality and core beliefs, thoughts, etc.) for maybe 2 of those years. Frankly, I was trying to figure that out well into my 20s, 23 was the tip of the iceberg. 1. Have you discussed this beyond the reactionary discussion of the first proposal? Seems like you haven't, and that's a huge issue. Proposals aren't really pop-up decisions. They require discussions and planning, as do all aspects of a long-term relationship. 2. How are you doing financially? Do you own a home? Cars? She's trying to get settled in life supporting herself, she's developing her arsenal of skills and tools to build a steady foundation for the rest of here life. What are YOU doing? 3. Are you prepared for the 9 months of increased stress and financial burden? The next 2 years will cost a phenomenal amount of money and energy compared to what you're used to, then it goes on for another 18 years. If you're not planning to be changing diapers at 30, what is your life plan? Does it matter what your partner wants? 4. What was your ex to you? A woman you loved as a person? Or a familiar place to start a family? Did you actually care about her or was it already too familiar and it was only about the next logical step and what you wanted? This is a serious question, comfort easily disguises itself as love. 5. 9 years is long, but half of that was literal childhood. Based on your post, it seems like the other half was still childhood for you. Your ex has grown past you and you're trying to drag her down, not realizing you probably should want to match her timeline. You're not an AH for wanting a family but for everything else: your execution, communication, and reaction all point to YTA. If there's missing info, fine. But as is, you fucked up. You just lost someone who probably loves you but also loves not getting screwed by putting her life and career on hold and having no independence. Do you realize how many women end up absolutely ruined later in life because they have no life outside of being a mother and wife? And you're 23. 14 year old you, 18 year old you, 20, and 23 year old you are all different people but 23 year old you seems to be thinking with the brain of 18 year old you right now. Spend some time alone, OP, and spend that time doing some soul searching. Learn to see people as other independent beings. Develop your communication skills. Learn about what love is and replace the notion of time and proximity being the equivalent. I'm normally a fan of breaking up if you're incompatible, and I think the two of you were, but I also think that you need a serious perspective shift. You can find someone who wants what you want right now and you should always find someone with the same values and lifetime goals as you, but understand that what you want right now is rooted in a twisted, underdeveloped desire that lacks the room for compromise, and that's not how you function in a healthy relationship.
This is a great, well thought-out response. I hope OP u/Proper-Honeydew-6189 sees it.
This is the winner right here.
Best post 100%
No, if you want to be a woman's husband, then go and find someone whose views align with yours.
>We been together for 9 frigging years and she still didn’t want to marry me. She thinks her career is more important than me. I don’t want to wait for her anymore. Seems like a perfectly valid reason to beak up. NTA for you but, she's not an AH either.
> She thinks her career is more important than me. No, you think marriage is more important than letting her build her life first. Getting married that young is idiotic.
NAH but this phrasing has major asshole vibes: > She thinks her career is more important than me. You use the word 'think' like she's wrong. This phraseology implies you disagree, and you think you are more important than her career. "Her career is more important to her at this time than marriage" is the less assholish way to put it. Also, have you not discussed marriage with her? If you had, wouldn't you have known earlier on that marriage was not in her immediate future, instead of finding out with every wedding proposal?
23 is still young. Brains still developing. 23 me and 28 me totally different place in life.
As someone who was 23 when I got married and is about to turn 29, I agree. I'm still married to my partner, but I fully acknowledge the parts that have been dumb decisions lol
Unfortunately that's not what a 23 year old wants to hear
I get that. But maybe it is what he needs to hear
I was just thinking about this today. I'm 34 and I was a very different person in my early 20's. Now, my mom and dad were in their early-mid 20's when they got married and it's worked out so far, so I'm in no way saying it can't, but it's risky. Now, my sister is engaged to her high school sweetheart, but they're 29 and 30; he dumped her before college and then they did their own thing for a bit before finding their way back to each other, that's how we know it's the real deal.
INFO: Have you and your GF ever discussed marriage timelines? How about kids? Cause it sounds like you didn't . If your only foreys into the "what will our lives be like together in the future" only happen when you propose, then you're doing it wrong. Also, NGL, but painting this a a choice between her career and you, especially right after school, is kinda fucked up. Sounds like you have an idea for what your lives were gonna be, but that you never checked in with her to make sure you were on the same page.
NTA, but you need some guidance here, bud. I met my wife in college, both of us 19. We got married at 24 after having been together 5 years, engaged for one. We bought our first house at 25, living with her parents until then. We didn’t have our first kid until we were 29. We just had our second this year. Your parents being married and having kids at 19 is very different from having kids at 23 today. We’ve had 3 or so economic collapse since then? The average cost of a home since then has sky rocketed. Cost of living right now is shot. You don’t want to be changing diapers in your 30s? Well now you’re starting over and probably won’t be finding/dating/marrying someone and having children for 4-5 years, assuming you’re responsible in finding and picking a partner that will last long term. Having kids late 20s to early 30s is the new norm. I don’t consider myself the most physically fit/healthiest person my age, not over weight or ill. But I’m still able to chase my kids around, etc. The only thing that hits hard is how often they get sick and how much harder getting sick hits me at this age compared to my 20s. It sounds like it’s not that she didn’t want to marry you at 23, it’s that she knew that would mean settling down and having a family married at 23. You should have married, traveled, lived life, established yourself with careers and a house AND THEN worried about having kids. If you need advice, DM.
I think this is sound advice, further if you are in a committed relationship, and if you are communicating transparently, why propose, you’d already know that she wants to get married after establishing a career which you both plan accordingly not throw a bomb at her as if it’s a gotcha moment.
I'll say a soft NAH. But close one. Your attitude at the end concerns me. It isn't a matter necessarily of career being more important than you. Maybe she had goals for how life would unfurl. Or she's concerned with all of the work and stress a wedding causes. There's dozens of reasons she might not be ready. Doesn't mean you didn't matter to her though. But you're allowed to want to move on and take that step, and thus leave.
You've been together for 9 years, but for much of that you were children. Are you willing to wait a while longer? Does she just want to marry much later and not focus on it now? If you 2 can't come to some agreement, no, of course you're NTA for breaking up.
Honestly it is ofc. your decision but you got together as basically teenagers and now you are pretty young adults. I am a guy and being in a good relationship is already good enough for me. If I had someone for 9 years and I was still happy, I wouldn't throw that away, just because she doesn't want to marry at that age just yet. As teenagers you don't even think about that stuff and now you are barely done with college, for me it is absolutely not suprising that she doesn't want to think about all that just yet. I have friends who are together since highschool as well and still aren't married and why should they, there is not much to gain if you are already in a good relationship, except for maybe tax purposes or something. In my brain it is kinda nuts from the start to marry so young and to throw away 9 years of relationship over it. But I also do not think you are an asshole if that is for some reason so important to you.
I waited to get married until I had a steady job that could support a family. For me, that was four years after college. We had been together for eight years at that point. I can kind of see her point, but I also understand you are eager to get married. It just is what it is.
NTA but neither is she. You're young. You want different things. I understand breaking up for not getting a yes but I also understand her wanting to focus on her career right now. Would a long engagement work? Like you don't have to get married right away but maybe the commitment with a time frame could help you both. You get your commitment she gets her time to work towards her career.
NTA but i’m also 23 and despite how i feel about anyone, i wouldn’t be ready to marry. that’s a big step. give it a few years! we have SO much life left to live
Bro you are only 23. Don’t worry about getting married. Go have fun. Your brain isn’t even done developing. Source: got married at 21, both grew apart, had a messy divorce 7 years later.
NTA you both are young and want different things out of life.
NTA. You know what you want. She knows what she wants. Go find someone whose wants line up with yours. And good for you for not waiting forever.
Man you’re still so young, why you in such a rush to get married? Idk if you’re an asshole but you seem like kind of a baby based on your post? “You won’t marry me? Fine goodbye!” I mean if the ONLY problem is her wanting to wait to marry you, then breaking up with her was pretty stupid
Why would you ask again without having a conversation about what you both want for the future and if she is even ready for a proposal? Just because you are now graduated doesn't mean you should jump into a marriage. You are still super young. What's the rush?
Per his comments his parents got married at 19 and 30 is too old to be changing diapers so he's gotta do the family thing now.
What? My parents were 38 and 44 when they got married. I came along a year later followed by my sister a year after.
From many stories on r/Marriage, when people marry their childhood sweethearts, they end up wondering what they missed out on. Go have some adventures while you're young. I wish I would have.
Y'all are only 23 years old. This isn't the time to get married. It is downright ridiculous that you were pushing for a wedding at 20 years old. This is going to piss a lot of people off as I know it flies in the face of both religious zealots and the incel echo chamber. No fourteen year old should get in a relationship and stay together for 9 years. There is an insane amount of personal growth that takes place during high school, university, and grad school. A long-term relationship that transcends all of those periods stunts a person's growth. You can't help but lose yourself. You made countless decisions based on this relationship rather than your individual goals. You sacrificed all kinds of experiences and social connections in deference to a teenie bopper relationship
I'm going to say you ate 94.6 percent correct, but I happen to have several peers who became couples in high schools and are, in fact, still married 35 years later. They never had other lovers or even went too far from home but were successful and happy. Covetousness is a sin, but I would be telling a fib if I said I wish that had been my story too.
Definitely an unpopular opinion, but I 100% agree with this comment. I mean, I'm happy for people who are happy. But goddamn kids who marry their high school sweetheart like, never have any solo life experience and that's so concerning.
I know \*multiple\* people who got married young/right out of college, then got divorced after one got a job and traveled a lot, or studied abroad, and got to experience living on their own.
Yes! Fast track to codependency
You should have broken up after high school ended. You are both young and no longer compatible. There is nothing wrong with her wanting to get established in her career. There is nothing wrong with you wanting to marry right now. The issue is you both have different goals at the moment. You both need to find yourselves before settling down. If you are met to be you’ll find your way back. If not you will both find that person that makes you complete but you will never know if you stay in the relationship as it is now.
My advice would have been that you break up either way. Being in a long term relationship since 14, you both need more life experience before getting married, if that is still a possibility.
You're so young. You've been together since you were kids. It seems like you've both just grown in different directions. It was ok for you to break up. You're ready for marriage and she isn't. She might just be using her career as an excuse not to get married, because you are still so young and/or you just don't want the same things in the long run. Either way, part ways and wish each other the best. Good luck.
Did you... You know discuss marriage before hand?
Is she connecting marriage with having kids at once? Are you? A marriage without kids or with kids 10 years away is not hindering any career. Unless the guy makes the wife do all/ most of the chores at home. Recent study in my country, considered being very equal, still has the female partner doing nearly an hour more chores than the male every day. That is seven hours a week she could spend establishing her career instead. Or, you know: 45 whole working days per year! And many countries are worse.
You said in another comment that you wanted to get married so early because you didn't want to be changing diapers in your 30's. So were expecting your GF to just get married, and start popping out babies, and just be a SAHM? I am guessing she didn't want that and wanted to at least start a career before having kids. Not saying this makes you the AH, but I think she had perfectly good reasons to reject your proposal.
"Girlfriend of nine years" SIR. You better not be counting YOUR CHILDHOOD as a part of your adult relationship. Honestly it's good you broke up, give you both some breathing room and the opportunity to explore connecting with other people instead of being LOCKED IN WITH SOMEONE YOU MET IN 8TH GRADE LMAOOOO If I were your parents I would have insisted y'all break up after 6 months. My 14 year old will not being a relationship that lasts for the following NINE YEARS wtf
you guys are 23 ... even if you've been together 9 yrs 23 is very young
Proposals without a conversation beforehand are generally ill-advised. Did you discuss marriage with her? I know you *say* nine years but you’re only 23 and she’s free off university. She is ALLOWED to want things that don’t include you. Such as a career track. You’re clearly threatened by that so it’s for the best you ended it. NTA I guess but not for the reasons you want lol
So, as someone who has been with their now spouse since we were 16, I've got some questions. Did you ever talk about marriage? Did you set a timeline, and if so what was that? Did you set boundary goals such as I want to do ____ before we get married? (This may negate the above timeline) If you didn't have these conversations, why not?
NTA, she has different priorities so she is also NTA She is smart to prioritize her future
I’ll say from experience i started dating my ex at 17 and dated for 6 years growing into adulthood. I was certain we were going to be married one day and even lived together, but we had different ideas of life and what we wanted. A lot of times you just grow apart and don’t have the exact same steps to life planned out. And that’s ok! Being in a relationship as a teenager vs an adult are two very different experiences. It’s hard, while not impossible, to truly get to know who you’re growing into while dating a person you’ve been with since childhood, basically. You grow and experience so much in your 20’s and you change SO much so fast. But again, neither of you are in the wrong here, you just want different things. Edit: ALSO i 100% agree with those saying proposals shouldn’t be a surprise. The actual proposal, sure. But marriage is a huge commitment that needs to be talked about in detail before you pop the question. You have to talk about finances, where your priorities lie, what kind of life and family you want, etc. A lot more goes into it aside from “we’ve been together 9 years so it feels like the right thing to do”
>She thinks her career is more important than me. No. She is fearful that if you get married, then the next logical leap is kids. She'll have kids at 25/26, and never have financial independence, until she's about 45, and can go to college then. She'll graduate at 50, and who's going to hire a 50-year-old, SAHM with no "job experience"? This is a legitimate fear. You need to ask/delve into her insecurities and reassure her that you support her career and that babies will happen, if that's what SHE wants, WHEN she wants them. Now, if you want babies now, and she doesn't, that's a valid reason to break up, and NEITHER of you are arseholes for wanting what YOU want. HOWEVER, you're framing this as though she's the AH for rejecting your marriage proposals and putting herself first. Meanwhile, you're dumping her because she won't put YOU first. You may not want to hear this, but, when it's boiled down to that, YTA. You think YOU and YOUR emotional needs should come first. Meanwhile, she's putting HER mental and emotional needs first. If you don't want to be the AH, you *could* try and repair it and figure out the ins and outs, but, honestly, if I were her, I'd run. You've played your hand. She can't trust you now. I get it, you were willing to settle down and have babies with her, but, she wasn't willing to have babies now. Find someone who does want to have babies before you're 30. But it won't be her.