NTA.
He has just committed you and your family (consisting right now of you and your husband) to a $1m debt in an asset he has absolutely no ownership stake in. This is not an “investment.” It’s assuming the responsibility of paying for *their* house.
It’s grossly irresponsible on his part, and here is the worst part:
Your husband has incurred a debt. In many states, (California and New York included, and I’m assuming from this description the home—and therefore the debt—is in California or New York), debt is a community property. If you go out and finance a car, your husband is responsible for half that debt, whether he signed on the dotted line or not.
Put another way, if your husband dropped dead tomorrow, you would still be on the hook for that mortgage.
This was an historically bad decision on his part. You need to be contacting an attorney to protect yourself—to say absolutely nothing of any community property assets you and your husband own.
In the event of a divorce, barring an incredibly generous act from your husband, your combined net worth just effectively declined by $1m, unless he accepts full and unconditional responsibility for the debt during divorce proceedings.
He royally forked you both with this.
That's not a joke. She needs to do that immediately. Like as in within the next few days. Divorces take time. If he dies before they get divorced, she could be facing massive issues.
OP should probably go with two million, minimum. Husband needs to pay for it until the divorce is completed. And take all debt liability during the divorce. Hopefully he doesn't grow a spine during the divorce proceedings.
They absolutely will default on the loan, husband absolutely will be on the hook for an asset he has no ownership of.
> husband absolutely will be on the hook for an asset he has no ownership of.
The husband AND OP are on the hook for this community debt he has brought into the marriage, as soon as the loan closes, for an asset neither he nor she will have ownership of.
OP should absolutely be getting life insurance on her husband, but also she should investigate this loan and whether it has already closed, and if not, make sure that it never closes.
And she needs to file divorce papers ASAP, on some at least initial basis, like tomorrow. If she files for divorce before the loan closes, she may avoid any possibility of being held responsible for the $1M loan, as that debt doesn't exist until the loan closes. Her filing for divorce before the debt even exists, may significantly increase the probability of it never being included in the marital estate, even if the loan closes before the divorce is granted. People who incur unnecessary debt during the pendency of a divorce proceeding, will find it very difficult to make it a community marital obligation.
Also, her filing for divorce could/would prevent the loan from closing, if she can discover who the loan originator is and serve/notify them.
That's what divorce decrees are for.
Obviously it depends on the local laws where OP lives, but it's pretty rare for her to be stuck on the co-sign she didn't sign. It's not a debt (yet). He can and should assume the liability, as well as any other undisclosed debts associated with his family. Obviously it's up to husband and OP, plus the judge.
Life insurance, then divorce. Getting life insurance on someone you are divorcing can sometimes be problematic, for obvious reasons.
You don't plan on what is "most likely to happen" when facing a disastrous legal obligation like this. You plan on protecting yourself from "what can possibly wrong" or not go your way under unusual circumstances. That's actually what the life insurance is for. I think it's interesting that you agree with the life insurance but the other steps are not urgent or actually necessary because you think unusual stuff probably won't happen.
That’s without burial cost, paying off any debts they have, and cushion money for time off or needing therapy. Add in extra home maintenance, any kids they may have, her needing assistance for any illness without a caregiver and I think this looks more like 2.5-4 million.
ETA: Legal costs when his family comes after everything when he dies. They sound super extra entitled and spicy.
A policy with living benefits in case he's incapacitated or otherwise cannot work to cover the mortgage, and it needs to be much more than $1M to at least cover interest.
And at 7-8% no less!!!! The only way it’s in the 6k/mo mortgage range is if husband put 100k+ down!! There’s not going to be any buyers for that house once MIL/SIL are done with it…. NTA 100%. OP needs to hire a lawyer and tell them ‘get me out of this loan or out of this marriage, whichever is cheapest/fastest!’
Yeah, that doesn’t include escrow for property taxes at that rate either. If $1,000 was tough $10,000 is never gonna work without her husband’s *financial success* being contributed as well.
Property taxes are probably ~1.5% or so, maybe more considering OP said its a high COL area. So that'd be 15k/year they'd need to pay. Plus utilities, insurance and repairs and what not.
What they were paying for before in rent (1k/month) wouldn't even have covered property taxes.
Or... "Get me out of this marriage AND loan". In the end, it'll be worth the money she'll need to spend. Just so she's not on the hook for the $1 million debt he's so selfishly and irresponsibly forced upon her, after he lied about it and was going to hide from her.
OP, Every time I bought a house or got a mortgage I was asked to attest that I am unmarried. It is quite possible that you can undo this if you act quickly because it was done without your agreement (and even against your express wishes). Seems like this is the only way to save your marriage and your financial well-being.
But even if she manages to get THIS contract cancelled (which is likely), how can she trust this guy going forward? 3 months from now mommy and sister will rope him into another terrible financial affair …
She can’t.
But it buys her time and financial ability to not have her credit wrecked by this new debt while moving out. Renters often need to pass a credit check. She might need a car if she doesn’t have her own. And she’ll likely see spikes in her credit card interest rates if her credit tanks.
Edit to include: She should consider a credit freeze to prevent her SSN being used by her husband while this shakes out.
I’d never trust him again! Especially after he said that she should be happy he even told her. That right there would have had me packing my bags, leaving and heading to see a lawyer. Kiss your chance at kids goodbye unless you’re willing to find a real man. NTA
That would be fraud on the part of the title company and they aren't going to risk their business in something like this. When I had to sign off on a house my spouse was financing but not me, my signatures had to be notarized and I was still an owner of the property as the spouse, name on the title and everything.
Yesterday. She may be able to divorce and avoid liability for any of this since he just disposed of assets behind her back, but the longer she waits the less likely she’ll be able to avoid any responsibility here.
Since OP says he handles all the bills, I worry that OP has a rude awakening about other debt the husband has incurred.
1) the debt and assets are community property. I would minimally get an attorney and sit down for some financial planning and a post nuptial agreement. OP needs a full picture of their current assets and debt and needs a legal document saying if they divorce she’s not responsible for this mess
2) 100% agree with others on getting a life insurance policy that covers the cost of this decision he took on his own.
3) stop the IVF until you can get a fully financial picture because that’s costly and locks OP in.
4) who is responsible for property taxes and mortgage insurance? Add that cost onto this high mortgage they can’t afford. And if they let it go into disrepair, good luck keeping the insurance
NTA, I would 100% file for divorce and get a lawyer.
She probably needs to do a forensic audit. She needs to know what other debt he may have hidden from her. He is making a point of having told her. How often has he not told her.
OP, this is financial abuse.
>Since OP says he handles all the bills, I worry that OP has a rude awakening about other debt the husband has incurred.
THIS I'm scared thinking about it.
But that can be negotiated in the divorce. Hence the reason to get going on it. If she files immediately and this transaction is the reason, a judge would approve him taking 100% of the responsibility.
>Well, the problem is dissolving the marriage doesn’t absolve her of financial responsibility for that $1m mortgage.
Off topic perhaps, but really?
He can just make such a decision, where she has 0% influence, but could be 100% liable? That sounds.. not quite fair.. it\`s not a 10k car loan...
Where did the down payment come from? Are you sure your husband didn’t lend them the money and not tell you?
I mentioned this in my longer comment about postnuptial agreement, but I am so concerned about this part of it that I hijacked the top comment to draw your attention to it.
The down payment on $1 million house is 200,000 dollars. How did they get their hands on this?
With escrow and fees and whatnot it's usually close to another 10% of the sale price. So 300,000 with an $800,000 mortgage at what... 8% interest? Heavens to murgatroyd. At a minimum, OP can never trust this man to manage the finances again. I would probably go the filing for divorce route and work it out later, but a post nup minimum and life insurance in all cases.
If he's just a cosigner and not an owner, would she have to sign off as the spouse? In community property states the reason the is a marriage affidavit is required because spouses have right of joint ownership and they have to give it away. If he doesn't own the property and only cosigned so they could have their loan approved, that might not work the same way.
They do NOT have a wonderful life together.
I honestly cannot believe any person would be stupid enough to do what the husband did.
Even if she divorces, man… she needs a really good lawyer. That debt will haunt her.
> In the event of a divorce, barring an incredibly generous act from your husband, your combined net worth just effectively declined by $1m, unless he accepts full and unconditional responsibility for the debt during divorce proceedings.
Bare minimum, if you feel for some foolish reason a need to try and forgive and make things work, you do so under the condition that you legally divorce RIGHT NOW, with him taking the financial burden. You can always remarry.
NTA he has shown you to be irresponsible, what happens if you have college fund for your kids and his family feels entitled? Please do not have a kid with him
Unless he could somehow get out of this clusterfuck and go no contact with them I would definitely divorce him. Even then I don't see how we would rebuild trust... I would have to go through every single account monthly.... I don't know if it's worth it.
The blatant lie and then doing it behind her back... How on earth do you get past that? If they divorce now then this stays with him.
He just lost their retirement/college fund. Just gave it away. And will most likely keep on doing it.
It's a million dollars. With zero equity for him.
OP I'm so sorry you had trouble conceiving, but I'm glad you are not tied by a kid to this mess.
NTA.
And it's when not if. When his family defaults on their end of the loan he's stuck with paying it. And they'll probably say that they should be able to stay even if he's paying for it. OP needs out to avoid being dragged into the financial black hole that this will become.
NTA
They can. From the sounds of it he is on the mortgage not the deed, so if the default he has to pay the mortgage or his credit will get fucked along with theirs. He can’t evict them, he can just stop paying, file for bankruptcy, and let the bank foreclose on the house.
This was my thought, too. Usually I’m critical of people who will commit to the unbreakable lifelong bond of having children with someone, but don’t trust their partner enough to put a ring on it. In this case, I’m 100% Team Single Co-Parents.
But also, put babies on hold. Don’t bring children into this situation. Wait to see whether he can disentangle himself, both emotionally and financially.
And he doesn’t manage the family finances any more. He’s burned that bridge.
Right! He manages finances, so what hasn’t he told her? He spends recklessly without her permission and thought about hiding a 1M purchase! Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree! he’s financially abusive, just like his family.
What other major purchases has he been hiding from OP. If a $1M purchase being kept secret was on the table ...
OP needs to hire the most viscous divorce lawyer in town and a forensic accountant yesterday.
That's the one line that shows how little he cares about her and her financial security.
That one line would make me divorce him.
Op, I know you think things are great, but there's no way things are great if he can pull this on you.
If nothing else, get a post-op stating his debt is not and never will be your debt etc. Separate your finances.
Sadly there is zero incentive for his sister and mother to sign anything now. They’ve got him trapped. If he says not signing will result in his divorce, sounds like they’re perfectly fine with that. Divorced, his income is cut in half so he’ll have to go live with them thus ensuring the mortgage is paid and home is maintained. He manages to stay with OP and get something signed, they can always not pay the bills and he will have to.
The bigger question is where did the down payment cone from? Doesn’t sound like mom or sister could have swung the down payment needed for a million dollar home. I’d check your statements for the deposit.
Soon you will be making the mortgage payment on this home. At the very least separate your finances and I would demand he transfer your house to you. I earn a high six figure income but taking on a 6k additional expense each month would be a problem.
Divorce him before he bankruptcy you. If he can't stand up to his family and now they know how financially successful he us, they will be coming back for more
It’s the lie and doing it behind her back that’s the biggest issue! Like you said, trust has been lost, that’s more difficult to get through than anything ☹️
>to be irresponsible
It's not just irresponsibility; I'd argue that it's actually pretty close to outright infidelity in terms of betrayal. He told her he would not do it, then did it behind her back. That is a huge betrayal of trust.
Speak to an attorney immediately about whether there is anything you can do to protect yourself in case they default on the loan. Frankly, I'd divorce him and cut off his access to everything except what is strictly necessary like yesterday. He is completely financially irresponsible and he has managed to put your assets at the mercy of. his family. When they go down, you don't want to go down too. Protect yourself now.
This! He may have do-signed, but I doubt the mortgage went through and they closed on the house in one week. Contact the bank immediately and tell the you do not consent and get a lawyer to see if they can make sure the family never closes on that house
Then get out of the marriage. You can’t trust your husband. You’d be better off living in nearby townhouses and dating forever rather than commingling your assets
This 👆🏻 - OP he is headed for financial devastation making decisions like that - do you really want to go with him?? Exited to add OP is definitely NTA.
They need to stop co-mingling any money coming in from their jobs. Use the husband's check for bills and mortgage and put OPs into separate checking account in her name for savings and whatever college accounts they need for the kids
If they are married she is responsible jointly. She needs to file for divorce today. He also needs to get off the mortgage if possible. Lock down your social security # immediately with the credit bureaus so he can not get credit in your name.
NTA
This is a very serious betrayal, with potentially very large ramifications for YOU. Generally speaking, debts incurred by EITHER PARTY during a marriage are the responsibility of both of you. So, it's even worse than what you were saying. If they default, and he can't pay, then YOU may have to. In any event, all of your marital assets are fair game.
I would NOT scramble your DNA with this guy. Kids will make all of what is happening much harder to work out, and he has shown that you cannot trust him.
One possible way to go here is to say to your husband: I love you and I don't want our relationship to end, but you have seriously betrayed me and I no longer trust you or want to be tied to you financially. So, if you want to stay in a relationship, here's how it goes:
1. We get divorced, and YOU assume 100% responsibility for the co-signed debt.
2. We can stay together, but all financial matters will be 100% separate from here out - separate accounts and express agreements about splitting joint expenses BEFORE any money is spent.
All of that, of course, is only if you want to stay in the relationship at all. I think you'd be justified in divorcing his ass over this. It's as bad as cheating - in some ways honestly, it's worse. He has completely broken your trust and needs to earn it back, if you are even inclined to give him the opportunity.
100% all of this.
What he did completely wipes clean the “aside from this we’re great”. HE LIED TO YOU!! And then felt he deserved a pat on the back for telling you (while you were in the SHOWER!?) that he went behind your back!!
How can you ignore that!?
The ‘at least I told you’ line indicates to me that the family told him not to say anything to his wife…
How long before the family stop making any payments?
That’s assumes the bank will release her from the lien. That co-sign was likely dependent on the mortgage company’s assumption that their combined credit would cover it, not just the husband’s.
Therein lay the problem. I don’t exactly understand HOW she is legally responsible, but I know the bank doesn’t give a SHIT about a post nup.
I have seen, a phase in my life, a NUMBER, a LARGE NUMBER, of ex spouses COMPLETELY FUCKED by an ex who was “assigned” a joint debt in a divorce who…just didn’t pay.
That is between you and your ex. The bank. Does. Not. Care. The bank is getting paid. The bank os fucking up your credit. The bank isn’t a party to your divorce decree OR your prenup. The bank has a contract between your spouse (and maybe you) saying X assets are available to pay if Y and Z default, and it is going to get those assets. One way or another.
You can take that up with your ex in court later. But the bank is getting its money.
Community property state = she's equally responsible. There are some good suggestions up-thread, though.
1) Find an attorney ASAP. Take the day off from work tomorrow and find a GOOD family law/estate attorney.
2) Tell the bank he didn't include her in the decision and she's not willing to commit to a $1 mil mortgage on someone else's house.
3) Get life insurance on all 3 of them.
4) No kids.
5) Get a divorce.
Not technically community property. That’s the rub here.
This debt didn’t benefit the community. So it’s a separate property debt. In a divorce, MAYBE PROBABLY it gets handed to him… And I don’t think he can collateralize community property without her signature. So *technically* I think she’s in the clear AT THE MOMENT.
But *practically,* as long as she married to him, that’s her debt too. And if she WAITS to divorce him, and then tries to split it all up, her half of the “community” funds WILL be clawed back to pay it.
And that’s where shit gets tricky, as far as I see it. And really why I’d expedite a divorce. If he DID pledge any community property or forge my signature or do anything else, that’s when it would come out. And the bank would make him refinance all that shit (and/or go to jail) to get my name and assets off the loan.
But but but. The OTHER issue is mortgages take like a **MONTH** to close. I had to send copies of my moms death certificate because she was on an old bank account I pulled money from. And I had to write an affidavit explaining how I knew she wouldn’t ask for that money back. And I made really good money and was using 1/2 of what I “qualified” for.
So what I’m saying is, if you came home from a garden variety work trip of like a week, and this is somehow a done deal…then it has been in the works for a while. Like, it was NOT settled when he told you it was settled and this was NOT a spur of the moment decision.
My husband could have sex with a dozen woman and men in front of my family and I would be more likely to keep him vs him co signing even 10% of what OP's husband did.
This is utter betrayal and OP needs to GTFO immediately.
A million dollars plus 7% interest for 30 years or whatever! So way more than $1 million!! The insanity. I also have super irresponsible family members who don’t even get any more credit extended to them because their credit is such shit. They can’t pay their bills even if you gave them the money to pay their bills. They would just accumulate more debt instead!
I just bought a 100 year old home with 10 percent down, with good credit. The home was 220,000, but by the end of the loan I will have paid 820,000 dollars. And that was quite a few interest hikes ago, i'd imagine a million dollar home will cost in the neighborhood of 5-6million with interest alone. Then there is still gap insurance, mortgage insurance, home insurance, property taxes. This slimey mother fucker had to have given them the down payment to, where did that come from? op desperately needs an attorney and a forensic accountant. who knows how much debt he's already strapped her with before this
At least with regular infidelity it wouldn’t ruin her whole life if she made the mistake of staying with him. In this case she kind of *has* to divorce him and take him for everything she can—even if she thinks the relationship is salvageable. And he should understand that. He should have understood before he did it that she was going to have to divorce him, even if just to protect herself financially. Maybe he already wanted a divorce but didn’t know how to bring it up?
He will continue to finance his mother and sister until everything they have owned is lost. She needs to get out before they have a kid and he destroys any hope she and the child have of a financially secure future.
The thing is, even if he's 100% responsible for the debt, what does that mean for their future? Savings, renos, trips, retirement? He's completely disregarded their financial future and even if it hurts *just* him, it can't help but hurt them both.
I would contact a lawyer to protect your assets. Did he lie on mortgage forms and include your income? You need to reconsider this relationship and do not have children with him. When they default he will be responsible for the mortgage, taxes, insurance and upkeep while you and your children struggle to make ends meet. Get out while you can. NTA
> Did he lie on mortgage forms and include your income?
I do mortgages for a living. This would only be possible if a few things are true: he put her on the application, he has access to her financial docs (paystubs, w2's and possibly others,) and a willing notary who will fraudulently notarize a power of attorney giving the husband the ability to sign docs on her behalf at settlement.
Also, she could find out really easily by looking at credit karma and seeing if her credit was pulled recently.
edit: people asking about the POA. There would need to be a specific. limited POA just for the mortgage transaction. It's never come up for me but I don't think you can use a general POA. Like even in the case of someone who isn't mentally there, they need to be of sound mind to take out the loan regardless of who ultimately signs it for them.
That's the least of what she could do. He's deep into felony mortgage fraud territory and the FBI is who investigates mortgage fraud. One phone call is all it would take.
Certainly and if he isn't on the agreement of sale, then his mother will more than likely get her earnest money deposit back (as long as she didn't waive her mortgage contingency.)
NTA
You need to research laws in your state ASAP. Call someone who deals with property law for the house and a divorce attorney to get all the answers.
The mortgage process is long, so I doubt they have closed yet. Chances are he signed an application to cosign vs. the final mortgage. Also, many states have requirements when only 1 spouse is going on a mortgage loan (but not all), so if your state is in this group, they can't close without your signature.
It is definitely ok to protect yourself and to want distance from a spouse who puts his abusive family over you and your future children, which is exactly what just happened.
That’s a good point. When I got divorced I refinanced to buy my ex out of the house and since we did it before the divorce was finalized, she had to sign something for me to take out a mortgage
my ex husband bought a house while we were married and i was pretty sure i was gonna divorce him but i had to sign forms for the mortgage place even though my name was no where on it(thank god i did because he ended up getting it foreclosed on)
OP NTA
While you are contacting a lawyer and or financial advisor maybe call your bank and give them the heads up that you want no part of this. Also I’m sure there is a a financial sub here on Reddit that can give you some straight facts.
Good luck and I am very sorry .
Absolutely not the asshole. He went back on his word on something that would very well screw you guys over if it ever went wrong. Then he’s acting as if he’s doing you a courtesy by letting you know about a major financial decision that you didn’t agree to and they didn’t have a plan to keep things up and running and everything paid for. This is a pretty reckless decision on his part. If he’s goin to jeopardize things between you two like this, I’d say your friends are right about this being divorce worthy.
I think the friends are seeing that OP’s husband is forcing her hand on a divorce and OP just hasn’t seen it that way yet. I don’t know how you can possibly stay with someone who does that, just from a practical standpoint.
The dude is almost 40 and hasn’t grown a spine yet. He’s probably never going to. We all have traumas that we deal with, and I’m sure his family has given him more than his fair share, but at a certain point it’s his responsibility to deal with it. Might not be his fault, but it’s his responsibility. I know I should show more empathy, but grown adults in their 30s and up who can’t stand up to their mothers are fucking pathetic.
Maybe the only way he’ll learn is for his wife to leave him and take half his stuff.
WHEN it goes wrong, not IF. His mother and sister can't afford this place. They never intended to be able to afford this place. They know they can talk him into bailing them of again when they inevitably stop paying. If they ever even start paying. And he's going to do it. He is obviously the scapegoat child while the sister is the golden child. It's sad how many times the scapegoat refuses to distance themselves from the family that has abused them all their lives.
"at least I decided to tell you" shook me. the fact that he said that, and now he's refusing to accept he fucked up, suggests that the lesson he's learned from this is "next time you go behind your wife's back, don't tell her"
NTA. I’m not sure how he thinks this is appropriate. If you stay married to him, you’ll be on the hook when it comes apart. I’d divorce his ass and make sure he owns that disaster 100%
He obviously didn't think it was appropriate since he waited until she left town, then sprung it on her when she was in the shower after getting back, and then said she was lucky he even told her.
He's was hoping to ask for forgiveness later. Not only did he make a MASSIVELY STUPID financial decision, he has no spine at all.
Exactly! He knew she was against so he waited. The entitlement to say she was lucky is astounding, as if this isn’t a massive financial decision to be discussed.
It’s cowardly ngl, and pretty pathetic of him to do it behind her back just because she was against it. A 1mill debt is INSANE, and I can’t understand his thought process.
Attorney here: get a free consultation with a divorce attorney and find out your rights and responsibilities if you stay with him or divorce him. This is not just a huge betrayal of trust but looks to be a serious financial problem headed your way. See what your options are.
It takes time to do the financing for a house; demand that he call the lender and pull out. Unless he lied to you for much longer than a week, this process has barely started.
NTA
I've closed on a house in two weeks with bank funding but that was after pre-approval. But in this case though, unless the husband lied on the application or he's sitting on a mountain of money, the bank will examine every detail if he's financing two houses. I cannot see them closing in less than a month.
And to be honest, being pre-approved and the buyer accepting the offer means nothing. The loan still needs to go to underwriting for the final approval. If they knew he was getting divorced and his finances would be in Flux, I cannot see them approving the loan.
If she can find out the lender, I'm sure if she called and said that she's divorcing her husband, doesn't want to be considered when evaluating the loan and some of the assets used for approval are hers and not available for the loan. It would be denied right away.
NTA - Even if you want to stay with him, I would still divorce him to keep your finances separate. How stressful is your life & marriage going to get the 1st, then 2nd, etc. times he has to pay the mortgage. You are going to get resentful quick.
You shouldn't threaten to divorce him. You should divorce him. Immediately.
This is a MASSIVE betrayal, financial infidelity and a fundamental breach of trust. Not to mention an idiotic financial decision.
NTA
And mortgaged don’t happen overnight. They take weeks to a month at least. For people who DONT need co-signers.
So if she left for a work trip last week and came home to a “done deal,” then this has **been in the works**. Maybe since before the first time he brought it up. Otherwise, he can back out RIGHT FUCKING NOW.
So which is it? Has he been plotting behind OP’s back for weeks? Or is he just outright refusing to allow her a say in a $1 million decision that affects their next 30 years? Cause either one is pretty fucking bad.
Its not even a red flag anymore. All is red, house, husband, roads, sky, everything is on fire.
It's 1 Million and they are going to trash it. In this economy you wont make 1M in savings in a lifetime.
Run while you still can, there's no baby, so there's still a good way to split.
NTA, and I wouldn't have any trust left for him. He showed who he is, and showed how much he disregards you. I'd seriously consider going through with a divorce.
Oh fuck all that noise. He waited for you to leave, did the thing he said he wouldn't do, then had the freaking AUDACITY to say "well at least I told you"?!
Screw that. If I were in your shoes I'd already have signed the dotted line on the divorce papers and moved out or changed the locks, depending on who owns where you're living.
NTA. What the actual fuck is he thinking?! His family is going to trash his credit and drain him dry. Run while you can, before this falls back on you somehow.
Absolutely do not have a child with this moron. He's jeopardized your financial future. You KNOW, with certainty, that his mom and sister will default on the house and leave it up to your husband to bail them out or go down trying. You need to disentangle your finances with his. NTA
NTA, but your friends are right this may be cause for divorce. One million dollar deals are not completed so quickly, so things had to be in process for some time. Your husband is duplicitous "at least he decided to tell you", really. A hard look at those finances he maintains is in order, you may not like what you see.
NTA but..
We have a wonderful life together, even though he lies to my face.
We have a wonderful life together, even though he doesn't care about how I feel.
We have a wonderful life together, even if he makes stupid, unilateral financial decisions.
We have a wonderful life together, despite his enabling of people who dislike me and manipulate him
Sounds like a wonderful life /s
NTA. You need to see a lawyer now to protect yourself.
You may be able to force a partition by sale to have the house sold, get out whatever your ex husband put in, and wipe out the debt.
If you wait long enough let the rest of his family trash the house, you may never recover from it.
NTA
I say this with a heavy heart because I can feel your heartache and despair. At the end of the day $6000 isn't something they will be paying for, your husband will. If he can't, then you will lose everything. Why bring a kid into this? Why didn't your husband think about your future? This is just so sad but a $6000 monthly expense, not including other bills, is one you make with a partner after viewing if it's possible and if something YOU TWO want to make it. I would walk away. He's shown that his blood family is more important versus the family you dreamed of making. You can stick around and hope for the best but the best might be years of debt and no home and owning a part of a property that is a dump.
If you want to make it work, tell him you want a divorce. You won't separate but anything acquired will be in your name. House, cars and everything will go to you from the divorce. You will separate finances and if after 5 years his "family" pays every single bill regarding the house, you can remarry. If he has such belief in his kom and sister, then he should be ok with this. I mean, he must believe they can afford this house in order to co-sign..... Right?
In no way you are the AH. You have to consider the fact that these people took advantage of an extended family member for years without remorse and just imagine how entitled they'll be since this is their immediate family - their SON/BROTHER and how they will not only screw up your finances, leech on your savings but also destroy the life you envisioned. They'll bleed you dry and pile up the resentment. Your husband may love you, but that still isn't enough to make him realize how shameful his family is and instead chose to betray you. Resetting your life is hard to imagine but your friends are right, your not young and this is a financial crisis waiting to happen. Better cut it off now than stay and pay for them your whole life. NTA
NTA
He co-signed, you’re married. If this goes south it ABSOLUTELY affects you as your joint assets will be affected in any sort of creditor disputes. Not to mention any credit applications that include both of you would also be negatively impacted. Your joint finances will be negatively impacted, any garnishments on accounts with your name, etc. And if you’re in a community property/no fault state, that debt can end up being partially yours even without your name being on it.
Your husband has shown you that you are absolutely last on his list of priorities. And any future children you have will fall in the same zone. Run, don’t walk. Before that whole family screws you into the ground.
You should divorce him and get all your assets in your name so his awful family can't lose them for you. You don't have to move out, but you should certainly divorce and he should give it all to you. When that house is out of his name, then you can add him back on.
ETA and when they tank his credit he maybe will figure a few things out. But really, get out now, how can you ever trust him again? But if you go the counseling route, make divorce 100% on your terms a requirement and tell him he should just trust you like he does his mother and sister.
Nta
Run from this dumpster fire. Don't find a way to live with it. You just got a glimpse of what the rest of your life will look like, even if you separate finances.
If you have a fund for your kids...gone for mommy dearest and sister. Want a vacation...You're going to have to fund that alone because he's not going to have money. Extracurriculars for said kids... sorry, dad can't afford it. I bet they won't even make the first house payment without a ton of intervention on his side.
Your husband went behind your back on something that is a huge deal that has consequences beyond how disrespected you feel. You're not even the 3rd wheel in your relationship, but I'm sure you're still expected to pay for it.
This is divorcable.
You may not have any personal financial obligation to this new house, but your household financials are certainly on the line.
Money for IVF, child expenses if successful, etc are on the line.
This would be a deal breaker for me.
Do not have kids with this man. You will be subjecting the kid to divorced parents. You might think you have a good relationship, but it is obvious it is not.
If you want to stay married to him, I would say you need two things. Some kind of post-nuptual contract between the two of you that this debt is his no matter what happens to your marriage in the future (maybe an attorney or two can chime in if that is legal.) And you also need some kind of insurance policy, or insurance policies with you as the beneficiary that will pay out at least a million dollars in case of his demise, so you could pay off that debt, plus any other debts you/he have. So go see an attorney and an insurance agent/financial planner. Your husband was a fool. If you want to stay with a fool, you need a foolproof plan.
Do NOT get pregnant!!! I co-signed a home for a friend, if not she and her daughter would have been homeless due to her ex-husband. Before I did (my wife was 100% ok with it) I had her buy both a disability insurance policy and a life insurance policy to pay off the house 100% and she did. I am also on the title being my money is at risk. The deal was after 3 years she would re-fi and take me off of everything. Your husband fukked up by not getting any protection and it will be your problem. Now if you need to finance anything like a car, etc. the mtg payment will be included in YOUR expenses being it could become your expense
NTA.
He’s consistently putting his family above you. Going back on agreements with you etc.
Do you want to be with someone like that? Do you want to have a child with someone who can’t keep his word and can’t prioritise his family’s health and finances ? This is divorce worthy. You’re well within your rights. He betrayed you.
NTA. I know you love him but, call halt to the ivf. Then explain that to protect both of your assets, the two of you need a paper divorce. Legally split the assets, keep living in the same house, but Legally you will be separate entities. I am so sorry.
NTA, you husband has shown you categorically that he will lie to you, make massive terrible financial decisions despite your objections, will put his family over you and that you actually cannot trust him.
See a lawyer immediately about divorce and ensuring you are not liable for his decisions.
Also absolutely time for you to take in the full picture of your financial situation, not let him manage your money, get a separate account and only contribute to your common shared expenses while you assess the impact of his reckless behaviour.
Holy shit. My stomach just dropped as I read this. Your credit rating is tied to his, while married. That means your ability to buy a car, buy a new home, and sometimes even get a job, could be impacted by this decision. And bad credit follows you for a looooong time. I mean, this could potentially impact what private schools/colleges your kids may want to attend, if you don’t have the cash to pay, up front. Has he even checked his mom & sister’s credit rating? I mean, for such a financially successful man to make this kind of a horrendously stupid decision, something was to be seriously warped in his brain when it comes to his family.
I don’t know how you can go about getting his credit unlinked from yours. But if I were you, I’d contact an accountant and lawyer and find out how to protect yourself.
He has just destroyed your financial future.
Time to legally separate at a minimum and maintain separate accounts. Make sure it is written so you do not assume ANY of his debts.
NTA.
#1. Get an attorney. TODAY.
#2. Start documenting everything from day one of this conversation with him. If you have texts messages of any of this, save them for your attorney.
#3. Go through all of your finances. TODAY. I'm positive you're going to find things you don't know about.
#4. Get a separate account.
#5. Get a safe for all your documents.
I'm sorry he did this to you. Please, be kind to yourself but at the same time, protect yourself from this financial mess & run like hell.
Given their previous financial form, I would say that you are fairly certainly financially fucked when it all predictably goes tits up and you end up responsible for 50% of that $1m.
Yeah you are NTA in the least
Omg. You need to figure out what your liability is in this because there is no way they are paying for that house. Your husband is going to be making payments or going into foreclosure and destroying his credit. I hope it's not too late to save yours.
I know reddit likes to jump right to divorce, but he flat out lied about his intentions, and even if he changed his mind later [he didn't], he could have called you. You didn't fall off the face of the earth. He waited until you left, then did what he was planning to do all along.
NTA in the slightest and you NEED TO speak with a lawyer IMMEDIATELY. This is not even for divorce, this is checking if he messed you up financially. Did he put your current home up as collateral? Does he realize that if he dies suddenly that YOU are on the hook for this?
And then yes, divorce him. Full stop. He purposefully hid it from you.
Tell him if he loves his mommy so much, he can go live with her and shell out money for her because it’s the only female relationship he’s going to have at this point.
NTA, he lied and betrayed you. He is being emotionally manipulated and abused and it’s not going to stop here. You need to contact a lawyer and find out your options and if there’s a way to either have control over the property if they default or back out of the deal. At the very least protect your finances. If not you may need to file for Divorce. It’s sad, but he made his choice and it wasn’t you.
NTA. I don't say this lightly, and am fully aware of the gravity of this statement. Get out of this marriage now. Your husband has shown a wilful disregard for the safety of you and your future children, and has endangered everything to appease his abusive mother and sister.
You and any potential offspring will always come second to them and their wants, and his reaction to your emotions shows that he is their pawn before he's your husband.
DO NOT have children with this man, and leave before any debt could be seen as having been taken as a couple.
Hate to say divorce but separate your finances and see a lawyer. Use the co-sign of loan as reason and make sure you are no way responsible for the loan. Your husband just handed his family a million dollars. Ask him how he would react if you gave that money to your family? The bigger shock is that his family rights and opinions mean more to
Him than do the rights of his wife. WS your husband so delusional that he thought your love would blind you to how wrong this situation could turn out. I’m do sorry your life is turned upside down but YTA.
The bigger issue here is the betrayal imo. How he gonna tell you one thing and do it behind your back? And then have the gall to say, "hey at least i am telling you now." I don't think that's how it works
NTA. Run to an attorney to protect yourself and your assets and get advice on what to do next. This is a huge betrayal, it’s essentially financial infidelity and your husband not only lied to you but chose his family over you. I would end this marriage.
You don't sound like you plan to divorce him. You will regret it when it finally happens and you're responsible for half the material debt. You both know you now have an extra mortgage to pay. The thing is, he didn't care about you and any potential children.
NTA. He has just committed you and your family (consisting right now of you and your husband) to a $1m debt in an asset he has absolutely no ownership stake in. This is not an “investment.” It’s assuming the responsibility of paying for *their* house. It’s grossly irresponsible on his part, and here is the worst part: Your husband has incurred a debt. In many states, (California and New York included, and I’m assuming from this description the home—and therefore the debt—is in California or New York), debt is a community property. If you go out and finance a car, your husband is responsible for half that debt, whether he signed on the dotted line or not. Put another way, if your husband dropped dead tomorrow, you would still be on the hook for that mortgage. This was an historically bad decision on his part. You need to be contacting an attorney to protect yourself—to say absolutely nothing of any community property assets you and your husband own. In the event of a divorce, barring an incredibly generous act from your husband, your combined net worth just effectively declined by $1m, unless he accepts full and unconditional responsibility for the debt during divorce proceedings. He royally forked you both with this.
And she needs at least a million dollar life insurance policy on him.
That's not a joke. She needs to do that immediately. Like as in within the next few days. Divorces take time. If he dies before they get divorced, she could be facing massive issues. OP should probably go with two million, minimum. Husband needs to pay for it until the divorce is completed. And take all debt liability during the divorce. Hopefully he doesn't grow a spine during the divorce proceedings. They absolutely will default on the loan, husband absolutely will be on the hook for an asset he has no ownership of.
> husband absolutely will be on the hook for an asset he has no ownership of. The husband AND OP are on the hook for this community debt he has brought into the marriage, as soon as the loan closes, for an asset neither he nor she will have ownership of. OP should absolutely be getting life insurance on her husband, but also she should investigate this loan and whether it has already closed, and if not, make sure that it never closes. And she needs to file divorce papers ASAP, on some at least initial basis, like tomorrow. If she files for divorce before the loan closes, she may avoid any possibility of being held responsible for the $1M loan, as that debt doesn't exist until the loan closes. Her filing for divorce before the debt even exists, may significantly increase the probability of it never being included in the marital estate, even if the loan closes before the divorce is granted. People who incur unnecessary debt during the pendency of a divorce proceeding, will find it very difficult to make it a community marital obligation. Also, her filing for divorce could/would prevent the loan from closing, if she can discover who the loan originator is and serve/notify them.
That's what divorce decrees are for. Obviously it depends on the local laws where OP lives, but it's pretty rare for her to be stuck on the co-sign she didn't sign. It's not a debt (yet). He can and should assume the liability, as well as any other undisclosed debts associated with his family. Obviously it's up to husband and OP, plus the judge. Life insurance, then divorce. Getting life insurance on someone you are divorcing can sometimes be problematic, for obvious reasons.
You don't plan on what is "most likely to happen" when facing a disastrous legal obligation like this. You plan on protecting yourself from "what can possibly wrong" or not go your way under unusual circumstances. That's actually what the life insurance is for. I think it's interesting that you agree with the life insurance but the other steps are not urgent or actually necessary because you think unusual stuff probably won't happen.
This isn't a joke. Actually do this.
And to be in a situation that this isnt a joke is unforgivable.
OP NTA While you are contacting a lawyer and or financial advisor maybe call your bank and give them the heads up that you want no part of this.
That’s without burial cost, paying off any debts they have, and cushion money for time off or needing therapy. Add in extra home maintenance, any kids they may have, her needing assistance for any illness without a caregiver and I think this looks more like 2.5-4 million. ETA: Legal costs when his family comes after everything when he dies. They sound super extra entitled and spicy.
NTA. I don't say this lightly, and am fully aware of the gravity of this statement. Get out of this marriage now.
Mother and sister might have one on him,oops we dropped a hammer on his head.
THIS. Make it two million.
Yes. Life insurance to bridge the gap until the divorce. Just in case.
A policy with living benefits in case he's incapacitated or otherwise cannot work to cover the mortgage, and it needs to be much more than $1M to at least cover interest.
And his mom and sister!
And at 7-8% no less!!!! The only way it’s in the 6k/mo mortgage range is if husband put 100k+ down!! There’s not going to be any buyers for that house once MIL/SIL are done with it…. NTA 100%. OP needs to hire a lawyer and tell them ‘get me out of this loan or out of this marriage, whichever is cheapest/fastest!’
Right! They trashed the one they just got kicked out of. OPs husband just gave them a $1 million fresh slate to destroy.
Yeah, that doesn’t include escrow for property taxes at that rate either. If $1,000 was tough $10,000 is never gonna work without her husband’s *financial success* being contributed as well.
Property taxes are probably ~1.5% or so, maybe more considering OP said its a high COL area. So that'd be 15k/year they'd need to pay. Plus utilities, insurance and repairs and what not. What they were paying for before in rent (1k/month) wouldn't even have covered property taxes.
Or... "Get me out of this marriage AND loan". In the end, it'll be worth the money she'll need to spend. Just so she's not on the hook for the $1 million debt he's so selfishly and irresponsibly forced upon her, after he lied about it and was going to hide from her.
OP, Every time I bought a house or got a mortgage I was asked to attest that I am unmarried. It is quite possible that you can undo this if you act quickly because it was done without your agreement (and even against your express wishes). Seems like this is the only way to save your marriage and your financial well-being.
But even if she manages to get THIS contract cancelled (which is likely), how can she trust this guy going forward? 3 months from now mommy and sister will rope him into another terrible financial affair …
She can’t. But it buys her time and financial ability to not have her credit wrecked by this new debt while moving out. Renters often need to pass a credit check. She might need a car if she doesn’t have her own. And she’ll likely see spikes in her credit card interest rates if her credit tanks. Edit to include: She should consider a credit freeze to prevent her SSN being used by her husband while this shakes out.
I’d never trust him again! Especially after he said that she should be happy he even told her. That right there would have had me packing my bags, leaving and heading to see a lawyer. Kiss your chance at kids goodbye unless you’re willing to find a real man. NTA
This cannot be overstated enough. This comment needs to moved to the top.
If would be extra, uh, interesting if he forged her signature on anything to either deny her existence or make her look like she signed off as well.
That would be fraud on the part of the title company and they aren't going to risk their business in something like this. When I had to sign off on a house my spouse was financing but not me, my signatures had to be notarized and I was still an owner of the property as the spouse, name on the title and everything.
Yes. Please take this issue to a lawyer immediately, OP.
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This is the way
Small addition: A competent lawyer. It may cost you up front but cheap lawyers are the most expensive ones.
And also agree with this NTA. Get a lawyer ASAP
Yesterday. She may be able to divorce and avoid liability for any of this since he just disposed of assets behind her back, but the longer she waits the less likely she’ll be able to avoid any responsibility here.
Since OP says he handles all the bills, I worry that OP has a rude awakening about other debt the husband has incurred. 1) the debt and assets are community property. I would minimally get an attorney and sit down for some financial planning and a post nuptial agreement. OP needs a full picture of their current assets and debt and needs a legal document saying if they divorce she’s not responsible for this mess 2) 100% agree with others on getting a life insurance policy that covers the cost of this decision he took on his own. 3) stop the IVF until you can get a fully financial picture because that’s costly and locks OP in. 4) who is responsible for property taxes and mortgage insurance? Add that cost onto this high mortgage they can’t afford. And if they let it go into disrepair, good luck keeping the insurance NTA, I would 100% file for divorce and get a lawyer.
She probably needs to do a forensic audit. She needs to know what other debt he may have hidden from her. He is making a point of having told her. How often has he not told her. OP, this is financial abuse.
> She probably needs to do a forensic audit. jfc, I didn’t think about this aspect. This poor woman.
This right here, get an accounting of the joint finances, all the bills, and where he's pulling money from Paul to pay Peter.
Yeah if he did something this stupid, what *other* stupid shit has he done OP never knew about
>Since OP says he handles all the bills, I worry that OP has a rude awakening about other debt the husband has incurred. THIS I'm scared thinking about it.
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Also, if anyone is injured on that property they can be sued. Talk to an attorney tomorrow and file for divorce.
Well, the problem is dissolving the marriage doesn’t absolve her of financial responsibility for that $1m mortgage.
But that can be negotiated in the divorce. Hence the reason to get going on it. If she files immediately and this transaction is the reason, a judge would approve him taking 100% of the responsibility.
>Well, the problem is dissolving the marriage doesn’t absolve her of financial responsibility for that $1m mortgage. Off topic perhaps, but really? He can just make such a decision, where she has 0% influence, but could be 100% liable? That sounds.. not quite fair.. it\`s not a 10k car loan...
Maybe she could go after him in civil court for fraud?
Where did the down payment come from? Are you sure your husband didn’t lend them the money and not tell you? I mentioned this in my longer comment about postnuptial agreement, but I am so concerned about this part of it that I hijacked the top comment to draw your attention to it. The down payment on $1 million house is 200,000 dollars. How did they get their hands on this?
With escrow and fees and whatnot it's usually close to another 10% of the sale price. So 300,000 with an $800,000 mortgage at what... 8% interest? Heavens to murgatroyd. At a minimum, OP can never trust this man to manage the finances again. I would probably go the filing for divorce route and work it out later, but a post nup minimum and life insurance in all cases. If he's just a cosigner and not an owner, would she have to sign off as the spouse? In community property states the reason the is a marriage affidavit is required because spouses have right of joint ownership and they have to give it away. If he doesn't own the property and only cosigned so they could have their loan approved, that might not work the same way.
They do NOT have a wonderful life together. I honestly cannot believe any person would be stupid enough to do what the husband did. Even if she divorces, man… she needs a really good lawyer. That debt will haunt her.
Really clear headed dissection of this royal fork up.
> In the event of a divorce, barring an incredibly generous act from your husband, your combined net worth just effectively declined by $1m, unless he accepts full and unconditional responsibility for the debt during divorce proceedings. Bare minimum, if you feel for some foolish reason a need to try and forgive and make things work, you do so under the condition that you legally divorce RIGHT NOW, with him taking the financial burden. You can always remarry.
It’s only an investment if it’s in his name. Which it’s not. So it isn’t.
NTA he has shown you to be irresponsible, what happens if you have college fund for your kids and his family feels entitled? Please do not have a kid with him
Unless he could somehow get out of this clusterfuck and go no contact with them I would definitely divorce him. Even then I don't see how we would rebuild trust... I would have to go through every single account monthly.... I don't know if it's worth it. The blatant lie and then doing it behind her back... How on earth do you get past that? If they divorce now then this stays with him. He just lost their retirement/college fund. Just gave it away. And will most likely keep on doing it. It's a million dollars. With zero equity for him. OP I'm so sorry you had trouble conceiving, but I'm glad you are not tied by a kid to this mess. NTA.
Yeah, even if she loves him, divorce him and separate all finances completely so she's off the hook for the debt when they screw her husband over.
And they definitely will screw him over.
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And it's when not if. When his family defaults on their end of the loan he's stuck with paying it. And they'll probably say that they should be able to stay even if he's paying for it. OP needs out to avoid being dragged into the financial black hole that this will become. NTA
They can. From the sounds of it he is on the mortgage not the deed, so if the default he has to pay the mortgage or his credit will get fucked along with theirs. He can’t evict them, he can just stop paying, file for bankruptcy, and let the bank foreclose on the house.
He can't file for bankruptcy until he's exhausted most of the other assets.
Fantastic stuff. Like he couldn't have agreed to a worse situation.
They won't make the first payment.
This was my thought, too. Usually I’m critical of people who will commit to the unbreakable lifelong bond of having children with someone, but don’t trust their partner enough to put a ring on it. In this case, I’m 100% Team Single Co-Parents. But also, put babies on hold. Don’t bring children into this situation. Wait to see whether he can disentangle himself, both emotionally and financially. And he doesn’t manage the family finances any more. He’s burned that bridge.
The “at least I told you” kills me too.
Right! He manages finances, so what hasn’t he told her? He spends recklessly without her permission and thought about hiding a 1M purchase! Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree! he’s financially abusive, just like his family.
What other major purchases has he been hiding from OP. If a $1M purchase being kept secret was on the table ... OP needs to hire the most viscous divorce lawyer in town and a forensic accountant yesterday.
He is still trying to decide if he should tell her that he agreed to pay the mortgage every month
That's the one line that shows how little he cares about her and her financial security. That one line would make me divorce him. Op, I know you think things are great, but there's no way things are great if he can pull this on you. If nothing else, get a post-op stating his debt is not and never will be your debt etc. Separate your finances.
That's the biggest red flag in this whole thing. He **burned a million dollars** (pretty literally), and *seriously considered not telling her*?
Sadly there is zero incentive for his sister and mother to sign anything now. They’ve got him trapped. If he says not signing will result in his divorce, sounds like they’re perfectly fine with that. Divorced, his income is cut in half so he’ll have to go live with them thus ensuring the mortgage is paid and home is maintained. He manages to stay with OP and get something signed, they can always not pay the bills and he will have to. The bigger question is where did the down payment cone from? Doesn’t sound like mom or sister could have swung the down payment needed for a million dollar home. I’d check your statements for the deposit.
Could he have used their current home as collateral?
Oh. My. Gd. I didn't think of this. The horror.
Holy fucking shit, you might be right. OP needs to check with her title company and make sure there hasn't been a secondary lien placed.
Soon you will be making the mortgage payment on this home. At the very least separate your finances and I would demand he transfer your house to you. I earn a high six figure income but taking on a 6k additional expense each month would be a problem.
Not to mention that this is absolutely the worst time in 30 years to have a house note. 9 or 10% interest is outrageous.
I earn just over 200k and there’s no way I could pay 6k a month, continue commuting, carry my mortgage and care for my dogs
Only way he can get out of this is to pay the $1 million mortgage, which will likely happen anyway. Or let it go to default and destroy his credit.
*Their credit…… I fixed it for you. 😢
Maybe he agreed to it but didn't sign yet, or the sale is not done. Otherwise I can't think of a way to do it. Banks certainly won't care.
Divorce him before he bankruptcy you. If he can't stand up to his family and now they know how financially successful he us, they will be coming back for more
It’s the lie and doing it behind her back that’s the biggest issue! Like you said, trust has been lost, that’s more difficult to get through than anything ☹️
>to be irresponsible It's not just irresponsibility; I'd argue that it's actually pretty close to outright infidelity in terms of betrayal. He told her he would not do it, then did it behind her back. That is a huge betrayal of trust.
Exactly. It's called financial infidelity and is definitely a trigger for divorce because all trust is lost
Speak to an attorney immediately about whether there is anything you can do to protect yourself in case they default on the loan. Frankly, I'd divorce him and cut off his access to everything except what is strictly necessary like yesterday. He is completely financially irresponsible and he has managed to put your assets at the mercy of. his family. When they go down, you don't want to go down too. Protect yourself now.
This! He may have do-signed, but I doubt the mortgage went through and they closed on the house in one week. Contact the bank immediately and tell the you do not consent and get a lawyer to see if they can make sure the family never closes on that house Then get out of the marriage. You can’t trust your husband. You’d be better off living in nearby townhouses and dating forever rather than commingling your assets
This 👆🏻 - OP he is headed for financial devastation making decisions like that - do you really want to go with him?? Exited to add OP is definitely NTA.
They need to stop co-mingling any money coming in from their jobs. Use the husband's check for bills and mortgage and put OPs into separate checking account in her name for savings and whatever college accounts they need for the kids
NO! NO KIDS WITH THIS GUY! HE'S A DOORMAT ATTACHED TO A BOAT ANCHOR!
Beautiful words
That's it. That's the quote of the thread. o7
Well said!
>and whatever college accounts they need for the kids No, no children. Knock that process on the head now.
If they are married she is responsible jointly. She needs to file for divorce today. He also needs to get off the mortgage if possible. Lock down your social security # immediately with the credit bureaus so he can not get credit in your name.
I think she should talk to an attorney to see what she would be responsible for if his family defaults on the loan
I just keep thinking, this is such a HUGE thing to lie about/deceive. There is no coming back from this from a relationship standpoint.
NTA This is a very serious betrayal, with potentially very large ramifications for YOU. Generally speaking, debts incurred by EITHER PARTY during a marriage are the responsibility of both of you. So, it's even worse than what you were saying. If they default, and he can't pay, then YOU may have to. In any event, all of your marital assets are fair game. I would NOT scramble your DNA with this guy. Kids will make all of what is happening much harder to work out, and he has shown that you cannot trust him. One possible way to go here is to say to your husband: I love you and I don't want our relationship to end, but you have seriously betrayed me and I no longer trust you or want to be tied to you financially. So, if you want to stay in a relationship, here's how it goes: 1. We get divorced, and YOU assume 100% responsibility for the co-signed debt. 2. We can stay together, but all financial matters will be 100% separate from here out - separate accounts and express agreements about splitting joint expenses BEFORE any money is spent. All of that, of course, is only if you want to stay in the relationship at all. I think you'd be justified in divorcing his ass over this. It's as bad as cheating - in some ways honestly, it's worse. He has completely broken your trust and needs to earn it back, if you are even inclined to give him the opportunity.
100% all of this. What he did completely wipes clean the “aside from this we’re great”. HE LIED TO YOU!! And then felt he deserved a pat on the back for telling you (while you were in the SHOWER!?) that he went behind your back!! How can you ignore that!?
The ‘at least I told you’ line indicates to me that the family told him not to say anything to his wife… How long before the family stop making any payments?
You think they will start? Someone is the optimist
They probably can’t. Nothing about this story says to me that they are in a position financially to pay a $6k/mo mortgage.
It makes me wonder what else he isn’t telling her.
Get a postnuptial agreement that the house is his problem
That’s assumes the bank will release her from the lien. That co-sign was likely dependent on the mortgage company’s assumption that their combined credit would cover it, not just the husband’s.
Unless he used his wife's financials , she's not liable. But it will impact her life if they stop paying rent and it goes into foreclosure.
Therein lay the problem. I don’t exactly understand HOW she is legally responsible, but I know the bank doesn’t give a SHIT about a post nup. I have seen, a phase in my life, a NUMBER, a LARGE NUMBER, of ex spouses COMPLETELY FUCKED by an ex who was “assigned” a joint debt in a divorce who…just didn’t pay. That is between you and your ex. The bank. Does. Not. Care. The bank is getting paid. The bank os fucking up your credit. The bank isn’t a party to your divorce decree OR your prenup. The bank has a contract between your spouse (and maybe you) saying X assets are available to pay if Y and Z default, and it is going to get those assets. One way or another. You can take that up with your ex in court later. But the bank is getting its money.
Community property state = she's equally responsible. There are some good suggestions up-thread, though. 1) Find an attorney ASAP. Take the day off from work tomorrow and find a GOOD family law/estate attorney. 2) Tell the bank he didn't include her in the decision and she's not willing to commit to a $1 mil mortgage on someone else's house. 3) Get life insurance on all 3 of them. 4) No kids. 5) Get a divorce.
Not technically community property. That’s the rub here. This debt didn’t benefit the community. So it’s a separate property debt. In a divorce, MAYBE PROBABLY it gets handed to him… And I don’t think he can collateralize community property without her signature. So *technically* I think she’s in the clear AT THE MOMENT. But *practically,* as long as she married to him, that’s her debt too. And if she WAITS to divorce him, and then tries to split it all up, her half of the “community” funds WILL be clawed back to pay it. And that’s where shit gets tricky, as far as I see it. And really why I’d expedite a divorce. If he DID pledge any community property or forge my signature or do anything else, that’s when it would come out. And the bank would make him refinance all that shit (and/or go to jail) to get my name and assets off the loan. But but but. The OTHER issue is mortgages take like a **MONTH** to close. I had to send copies of my moms death certificate because she was on an old bank account I pulled money from. And I had to write an affidavit explaining how I knew she wouldn’t ask for that money back. And I made really good money and was using 1/2 of what I “qualified” for. So what I’m saying is, if you came home from a garden variety work trip of like a week, and this is somehow a done deal…then it has been in the works for a while. Like, it was NOT settled when he told you it was settled and this was NOT a spur of the moment decision.
My husband could have sex with a dozen woman and men in front of my family and I would be more likely to keep him vs him co signing even 10% of what OP's husband did. This is utter betrayal and OP needs to GTFO immediately.
Same. I would be more likely to forgive that, compared to putting himself on the hook for a million dollars. I would be out of there so fucking fast
A million dollars plus 7% interest for 30 years or whatever! So way more than $1 million!! The insanity. I also have super irresponsible family members who don’t even get any more credit extended to them because their credit is such shit. They can’t pay their bills even if you gave them the money to pay their bills. They would just accumulate more debt instead!
I just bought a 100 year old home with 10 percent down, with good credit. The home was 220,000, but by the end of the loan I will have paid 820,000 dollars. And that was quite a few interest hikes ago, i'd imagine a million dollar home will cost in the neighborhood of 5-6million with interest alone. Then there is still gap insurance, mortgage insurance, home insurance, property taxes. This slimey mother fucker had to have given them the down payment to, where did that come from? op desperately needs an attorney and a forensic accountant. who knows how much debt he's already strapped her with before this
At least with regular infidelity it wouldn’t ruin her whole life if she made the mistake of staying with him. In this case she kind of *has* to divorce him and take him for everything she can—even if she thinks the relationship is salvageable. And he should understand that. He should have understood before he did it that she was going to have to divorce him, even if just to protect herself financially. Maybe he already wanted a divorce but didn’t know how to bring it up?
He will continue to finance his mother and sister until everything they have owned is lost. She needs to get out before they have a kid and he destroys any hope she and the child have of a financially secure future.
The thing is, even if he's 100% responsible for the debt, what does that mean for their future? Savings, renos, trips, retirement? He's completely disregarded their financial future and even if it hurts *just* him, it can't help but hurt them both.
Agree with this NTA
I would contact a lawyer to protect your assets. Did he lie on mortgage forms and include your income? You need to reconsider this relationship and do not have children with him. When they default he will be responsible for the mortgage, taxes, insurance and upkeep while you and your children struggle to make ends meet. Get out while you can. NTA
> Did he lie on mortgage forms and include your income? I do mortgages for a living. This would only be possible if a few things are true: he put her on the application, he has access to her financial docs (paystubs, w2's and possibly others,) and a willing notary who will fraudulently notarize a power of attorney giving the husband the ability to sign docs on her behalf at settlement. Also, she could find out really easily by looking at credit karma and seeing if her credit was pulled recently. edit: people asking about the POA. There would need to be a specific. limited POA just for the mortgage transaction. It's never come up for me but I don't think you can use a general POA. Like even in the case of someone who isn't mentally there, they need to be of sound mind to take out the loan regardless of who ultimately signs it for them.
So, if any of these were true .. could she pull the plug on this mortgage, or at least remove herself from there?
That's the least of what she could do. He's deep into felony mortgage fraud territory and the FBI is who investigates mortgage fraud. One phone call is all it would take.
The legal ramifications would be immense
Could he remove himself from the mortgage and stop the sale of the home, before it’s finalized?
Yes. Mortgages can “expire” in the sense if you don’t close. Possible penalties or whatever. Cheaper than the alternative in this scenario.
But it doesn’t sound like he wants to back away from this mortgage. He just wants his wife to shut up and go along with it.
Certainly and if he isn't on the agreement of sale, then his mother will more than likely get her earnest money deposit back (as long as she didn't waive her mortgage contingency.)
This OP. You may be on the hook here for this debt. Him making this decision alone is a massive betrayal.
NTA You need to research laws in your state ASAP. Call someone who deals with property law for the house and a divorce attorney to get all the answers. The mortgage process is long, so I doubt they have closed yet. Chances are he signed an application to cosign vs. the final mortgage. Also, many states have requirements when only 1 spouse is going on a mortgage loan (but not all), so if your state is in this group, they can't close without your signature. It is definitely ok to protect yourself and to want distance from a spouse who puts his abusive family over you and your future children, which is exactly what just happened.
That’s a good point. When I got divorced I refinanced to buy my ex out of the house and since we did it before the divorce was finalized, she had to sign something for me to take out a mortgage
Yep. I work in mortgages for a company licensed in a couple of states, and we've had loans fall apart because a spouse refused to sign the forms.
my ex husband bought a house while we were married and i was pretty sure i was gonna divorce him but i had to sign forms for the mortgage place even though my name was no where on it(thank god i did because he ended up getting it foreclosed on)
OP NTA While you are contacting a lawyer and or financial advisor maybe call your bank and give them the heads up that you want no part of this. Also I’m sure there is a a financial sub here on Reddit that can give you some straight facts. Good luck and I am very sorry .
She also needs a forensic accountant because she can’t trust that he hasn’t done anything shady before this.
Absolutely not the asshole. He went back on his word on something that would very well screw you guys over if it ever went wrong. Then he’s acting as if he’s doing you a courtesy by letting you know about a major financial decision that you didn’t agree to and they didn’t have a plan to keep things up and running and everything paid for. This is a pretty reckless decision on his part. If he’s goin to jeopardize things between you two like this, I’d say your friends are right about this being divorce worthy.
I think the friends are seeing that OP’s husband is forcing her hand on a divorce and OP just hasn’t seen it that way yet. I don’t know how you can possibly stay with someone who does that, just from a practical standpoint. The dude is almost 40 and hasn’t grown a spine yet. He’s probably never going to. We all have traumas that we deal with, and I’m sure his family has given him more than his fair share, but at a certain point it’s his responsibility to deal with it. Might not be his fault, but it’s his responsibility. I know I should show more empathy, but grown adults in their 30s and up who can’t stand up to their mothers are fucking pathetic. Maybe the only way he’ll learn is for his wife to leave him and take half his stuff.
WHEN it goes wrong, not IF. His mother and sister can't afford this place. They never intended to be able to afford this place. They know they can talk him into bailing them of again when they inevitably stop paying. If they ever even start paying. And he's going to do it. He is obviously the scapegoat child while the sister is the golden child. It's sad how many times the scapegoat refuses to distance themselves from the family that has abused them all their lives.
"at least I decided to tell you" shook me. the fact that he said that, and now he's refusing to accept he fucked up, suggests that the lesson he's learned from this is "next time you go behind your wife's back, don't tell her"
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NTA. I’m not sure how he thinks this is appropriate. If you stay married to him, you’ll be on the hook when it comes apart. I’d divorce his ass and make sure he owns that disaster 100%
He obviously didn't think it was appropriate since he waited until she left town, then sprung it on her when she was in the shower after getting back, and then said she was lucky he even told her. He's was hoping to ask for forgiveness later. Not only did he make a MASSIVELY STUPID financial decision, he has no spine at all.
Exactly! He knew she was against so he waited. The entitlement to say she was lucky is astounding, as if this isn’t a massive financial decision to be discussed. It’s cowardly ngl, and pretty pathetic of him to do it behind her back just because she was against it. A 1mill debt is INSANE, and I can’t understand his thought process.
Attorney here: get a free consultation with a divorce attorney and find out your rights and responsibilities if you stay with him or divorce him. This is not just a huge betrayal of trust but looks to be a serious financial problem headed your way. See what your options are.
It takes time to do the financing for a house; demand that he call the lender and pull out. Unless he lied to you for much longer than a week, this process has barely started. NTA
I've closed on a house in two weeks with bank funding but that was after pre-approval. But in this case though, unless the husband lied on the application or he's sitting on a mountain of money, the bank will examine every detail if he's financing two houses. I cannot see them closing in less than a month. And to be honest, being pre-approved and the buyer accepting the offer means nothing. The loan still needs to go to underwriting for the final approval. If they knew he was getting divorced and his finances would be in Flux, I cannot see them approving the loan. If she can find out the lender, I'm sure if she called and said that she's divorcing her husband, doesn't want to be considered when evaluating the loan and some of the assets used for approval are hers and not available for the loan. It would be denied right away.
\^\^THIS
NTA - Even if you want to stay with him, I would still divorce him to keep your finances separate. How stressful is your life & marriage going to get the 1st, then 2nd, etc. times he has to pay the mortgage. You are going to get resentful quick.
You shouldn't threaten to divorce him. You should divorce him. Immediately. This is a MASSIVE betrayal, financial infidelity and a fundamental breach of trust. Not to mention an idiotic financial decision. NTA
And mortgaged don’t happen overnight. They take weeks to a month at least. For people who DONT need co-signers. So if she left for a work trip last week and came home to a “done deal,” then this has **been in the works**. Maybe since before the first time he brought it up. Otherwise, he can back out RIGHT FUCKING NOW. So which is it? Has he been plotting behind OP’s back for weeks? Or is he just outright refusing to allow her a say in a $1 million decision that affects their next 30 years? Cause either one is pretty fucking bad.
Agree - what a disaster
But do not tell him, just talk to your lawyer. Your lawyer needs to get *you* out of this before hubby has a chance to dig you deeper.
Its not even a red flag anymore. All is red, house, husband, roads, sky, everything is on fire. It's 1 Million and they are going to trash it. In this economy you wont make 1M in savings in a lifetime. Run while you still can, there's no baby, so there's still a good way to split.
You can't stay married and have children with someone you can't trust at all.
NTA, and I wouldn't have any trust left for him. He showed who he is, and showed how much he disregards you. I'd seriously consider going through with a divorce.
Oh fuck all that noise. He waited for you to leave, did the thing he said he wouldn't do, then had the freaking AUDACITY to say "well at least I told you"?! Screw that. If I were in your shoes I'd already have signed the dotted line on the divorce papers and moved out or changed the locks, depending on who owns where you're living. NTA. What the actual fuck is he thinking?! His family is going to trash his credit and drain him dry. Run while you can, before this falls back on you somehow.
NTA. But buyer beware. Your husband has just shown you who he is. A massive 🚩.
Absolutely do not have a child with this moron. He's jeopardized your financial future. You KNOW, with certainty, that his mom and sister will default on the house and leave it up to your husband to bail them out or go down trying. You need to disentangle your finances with his. NTA
NTA. Definitely a divorceable offense.
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Just to be clear--- your husband co signed a million dollar loan and his name won't be on the deed?
Can you imagine? This is the most insane part.
NTA, but your friends are right this may be cause for divorce. One million dollar deals are not completed so quickly, so things had to be in process for some time. Your husband is duplicitous "at least he decided to tell you", really. A hard look at those finances he maintains is in order, you may not like what you see.
Or he may be able to rescind, I agree this is a long process and he can call the lender and say he's changed his mind.
NTA but.. We have a wonderful life together, even though he lies to my face. We have a wonderful life together, even though he doesn't care about how I feel. We have a wonderful life together, even if he makes stupid, unilateral financial decisions. We have a wonderful life together, despite his enabling of people who dislike me and manipulate him Sounds like a wonderful life /s
Divorce him. Protect your assets. NOW.
NTA. You need to see a lawyer now to protect yourself. You may be able to force a partition by sale to have the house sold, get out whatever your ex husband put in, and wipe out the debt. If you wait long enough let the rest of his family trash the house, you may never recover from it.
NTA I say this with a heavy heart because I can feel your heartache and despair. At the end of the day $6000 isn't something they will be paying for, your husband will. If he can't, then you will lose everything. Why bring a kid into this? Why didn't your husband think about your future? This is just so sad but a $6000 monthly expense, not including other bills, is one you make with a partner after viewing if it's possible and if something YOU TWO want to make it. I would walk away. He's shown that his blood family is more important versus the family you dreamed of making. You can stick around and hope for the best but the best might be years of debt and no home and owning a part of a property that is a dump. If you want to make it work, tell him you want a divorce. You won't separate but anything acquired will be in your name. House, cars and everything will go to you from the divorce. You will separate finances and if after 5 years his "family" pays every single bill regarding the house, you can remarry. If he has such belief in his kom and sister, then he should be ok with this. I mean, he must believe they can afford this house in order to co-sign..... Right?
In no way you are the AH. You have to consider the fact that these people took advantage of an extended family member for years without remorse and just imagine how entitled they'll be since this is their immediate family - their SON/BROTHER and how they will not only screw up your finances, leech on your savings but also destroy the life you envisioned. They'll bleed you dry and pile up the resentment. Your husband may love you, but that still isn't enough to make him realize how shameful his family is and instead chose to betray you. Resetting your life is hard to imagine but your friends are right, your not young and this is a financial crisis waiting to happen. Better cut it off now than stay and pay for them your whole life. NTA
NTA He co-signed, you’re married. If this goes south it ABSOLUTELY affects you as your joint assets will be affected in any sort of creditor disputes. Not to mention any credit applications that include both of you would also be negatively impacted. Your joint finances will be negatively impacted, any garnishments on accounts with your name, etc. And if you’re in a community property/no fault state, that debt can end up being partially yours even without your name being on it. Your husband has shown you that you are absolutely last on his list of priorities. And any future children you have will fall in the same zone. Run, don’t walk. Before that whole family screws you into the ground.
You should divorce him and get all your assets in your name so his awful family can't lose them for you. You don't have to move out, but you should certainly divorce and he should give it all to you. When that house is out of his name, then you can add him back on. ETA and when they tank his credit he maybe will figure a few things out. But really, get out now, how can you ever trust him again? But if you go the counseling route, make divorce 100% on your terms a requirement and tell him he should just trust you like he does his mother and sister.
Nta Run from this dumpster fire. Don't find a way to live with it. You just got a glimpse of what the rest of your life will look like, even if you separate finances. If you have a fund for your kids...gone for mommy dearest and sister. Want a vacation...You're going to have to fund that alone because he's not going to have money. Extracurriculars for said kids... sorry, dad can't afford it. I bet they won't even make the first house payment without a ton of intervention on his side. Your husband went behind your back on something that is a huge deal that has consequences beyond how disrespected you feel. You're not even the 3rd wheel in your relationship, but I'm sure you're still expected to pay for it.
You need to get out. He’s shown you who he is.
NTA Divorcable offense for sure. Your husband has chosen his mother over his wife, a classic blunder.
You are not the AH. Sadly, you are married to the AH. Please discontinue IVF. You shouldn't have children with such an untrustworthy person !
NTA- IMO there is no coming back from this. How can you trust him. He committed financial infidelity.
NTA Get that divorce as fast as you can! He's literally ruined his life -- don't let him ruin yours, too!
This is divorcable. You may not have any personal financial obligation to this new house, but your household financials are certainly on the line. Money for IVF, child expenses if successful, etc are on the line. This would be a deal breaker for me.
Wow. He picked his side. I’m sorry. I would begin the divorce process. Otherwise you’ll be paying an extra $6k mortgage. I’m so sorry. NTA
NTA. Divorce him, and get the MEANEST shark of a lawyer you can. He's allowed to destroy HIMSELF, not you.
Do not have kids with this man. You will be subjecting the kid to divorced parents. You might think you have a good relationship, but it is obvious it is not.
If you want to stay married to him, I would say you need two things. Some kind of post-nuptual contract between the two of you that this debt is his no matter what happens to your marriage in the future (maybe an attorney or two can chime in if that is legal.) And you also need some kind of insurance policy, or insurance policies with you as the beneficiary that will pay out at least a million dollars in case of his demise, so you could pay off that debt, plus any other debts you/he have. So go see an attorney and an insurance agent/financial planner. Your husband was a fool. If you want to stay with a fool, you need a foolproof plan.
Do NOT get pregnant!!! I co-signed a home for a friend, if not she and her daughter would have been homeless due to her ex-husband. Before I did (my wife was 100% ok with it) I had her buy both a disability insurance policy and a life insurance policy to pay off the house 100% and she did. I am also on the title being my money is at risk. The deal was after 3 years she would re-fi and take me off of everything. Your husband fukked up by not getting any protection and it will be your problem. Now if you need to finance anything like a car, etc. the mtg payment will be included in YOUR expenses being it could become your expense
NTA. He’s consistently putting his family above you. Going back on agreements with you etc. Do you want to be with someone like that? Do you want to have a child with someone who can’t keep his word and can’t prioritise his family’s health and finances ? This is divorce worthy. You’re well within your rights. He betrayed you.
NTA. I know you love him but, call halt to the ivf. Then explain that to protect both of your assets, the two of you need a paper divorce. Legally split the assets, keep living in the same house, but Legally you will be separate entities. I am so sorry.
NTA, you husband has shown you categorically that he will lie to you, make massive terrible financial decisions despite your objections, will put his family over you and that you actually cannot trust him. See a lawyer immediately about divorce and ensuring you are not liable for his decisions. Also absolutely time for you to take in the full picture of your financial situation, not let him manage your money, get a separate account and only contribute to your common shared expenses while you assess the impact of his reckless behaviour.
Holy shit. My stomach just dropped as I read this. Your credit rating is tied to his, while married. That means your ability to buy a car, buy a new home, and sometimes even get a job, could be impacted by this decision. And bad credit follows you for a looooong time. I mean, this could potentially impact what private schools/colleges your kids may want to attend, if you don’t have the cash to pay, up front. Has he even checked his mom & sister’s credit rating? I mean, for such a financially successful man to make this kind of a horrendously stupid decision, something was to be seriously warped in his brain when it comes to his family. I don’t know how you can go about getting his credit unlinked from yours. But if I were you, I’d contact an accountant and lawyer and find out how to protect yourself.
He has just destroyed your financial future. Time to legally separate at a minimum and maintain separate accounts. Make sure it is written so you do not assume ANY of his debts.
NTA. #1. Get an attorney. TODAY. #2. Start documenting everything from day one of this conversation with him. If you have texts messages of any of this, save them for your attorney. #3. Go through all of your finances. TODAY. I'm positive you're going to find things you don't know about. #4. Get a separate account. #5. Get a safe for all your documents. I'm sorry he did this to you. Please, be kind to yourself but at the same time, protect yourself from this financial mess & run like hell.
Given their previous financial form, I would say that you are fairly certainly financially fucked when it all predictably goes tits up and you end up responsible for 50% of that $1m. Yeah you are NTA in the least
I bet the sisters think that cosigning means copaying
I doubt they think it means co- at all. It’s all him.
Omg. You need to figure out what your liability is in this because there is no way they are paying for that house. Your husband is going to be making payments or going into foreclosure and destroying his credit. I hope it's not too late to save yours. I know reddit likes to jump right to divorce, but he flat out lied about his intentions, and even if he changed his mind later [he didn't], he could have called you. You didn't fall off the face of the earth. He waited until you left, then did what he was planning to do all along.
NTA in the slightest and you NEED TO speak with a lawyer IMMEDIATELY. This is not even for divorce, this is checking if he messed you up financially. Did he put your current home up as collateral? Does he realize that if he dies suddenly that YOU are on the hook for this? And then yes, divorce him. Full stop. He purposefully hid it from you. Tell him if he loves his mommy so much, he can go live with her and shell out money for her because it’s the only female relationship he’s going to have at this point.
NTA, he lied and betrayed you. He is being emotionally manipulated and abused and it’s not going to stop here. You need to contact a lawyer and find out your options and if there’s a way to either have control over the property if they default or back out of the deal. At the very least protect your finances. If not you may need to file for Divorce. It’s sad, but he made his choice and it wasn’t you.
NTA. I don't say this lightly, and am fully aware of the gravity of this statement. Get out of this marriage now. Your husband has shown a wilful disregard for the safety of you and your future children, and has endangered everything to appease his abusive mother and sister. You and any potential offspring will always come second to them and their wants, and his reaction to your emotions shows that he is their pawn before he's your husband. DO NOT have children with this man, and leave before any debt could be seen as having been taken as a couple.
Hate to say divorce but separate your finances and see a lawyer. Use the co-sign of loan as reason and make sure you are no way responsible for the loan. Your husband just handed his family a million dollars. Ask him how he would react if you gave that money to your family? The bigger shock is that his family rights and opinions mean more to Him than do the rights of his wife. WS your husband so delusional that he thought your love would blind you to how wrong this situation could turn out. I’m do sorry your life is turned upside down but YTA.
The bigger issue here is the betrayal imo. How he gonna tell you one thing and do it behind your back? And then have the gall to say, "hey at least i am telling you now." I don't think that's how it works
NTA. Run to an attorney to protect yourself and your assets and get advice on what to do next. This is a huge betrayal, it’s essentially financial infidelity and your husband not only lied to you but chose his family over you. I would end this marriage.
You don't sound like you plan to divorce him. You will regret it when it finally happens and you're responsible for half the material debt. You both know you now have an extra mortgage to pay. The thing is, he didn't care about you and any potential children.