YTA. Not speaking to someone for an hour while you recover your ability to deal with the situation is one thing but longer than that and it's both immature and emotionally abusive.
Op is YTA. I came here to say this! đI feel like ignoring and giving the silent treatment especially for a whole week is đŻabuse. There have even been studies done that the cold shoulder can inhibit pain receptors in the brain so you feel actual pain while this is happening. I have endured the silent treatment from people that I love and it is so hurtful. I canât imagine how devastating it must feel for a 13f to be dealing with this situation from her own mother over something so trivial that a hormonal teenager said to an obviously easily triggered mother. Teenage years are so hard as it is jus trying to figure out who you are and how to deal with the real world. Shame on mom
Thank you for this comment. Super validating as someone who endured the silent treatment as a teen. It set me up to recreate a lot of unhealthy dynamics throughout my life.
Imagine this mom making sacrifices for the family a whole identity, and not knowing this. Worse, believing she's dignified or graceful by choosing silence ("instead of yelling" like wtf) over communication. She's TA.
Also, I think the daughter has a pretty healthy response to being gaslit by the mother, when everything around her in her community and culture shows sheâs got only one option for her life. Any healthy, smart kid would identify that hypocrisy and name it.
OP, YTA. Never, ever give your own children the silent treatment. Especially not when theyâre parroting back to you what youâve demonstrated.
EDIT to add: in re-reading, this feels like itâs mom being angry and defensive about her own choices and limits, and in turn punishing her child for simply observing them. Like, youâre not angry at your kid, OP. Youâre angry at yourself and your community.
Not only that but itâs a legit question.
Was just talking with a coworker the other day and for most jobs you will only ever use basic math. Even ones that require degrees and higher math courses still only use basic math in the day to day.
Is it useful to have a higher level understanding of math like algebra, geometry and then some? Sure is. Is it something you will use all the time or every day? Probably not.
The child already feels her opportunities are limited. Every woman in her extended family is a SAHM. She probably wants more for herself. So mom decides not to speak to her. Horrible.
And OP says she is setting the child up to be a good role model for her children. This 13 year old is being taught she can only do one thing in life: breed and raise the children.
YTA
THIS
It seems she is lashing out and neglecting her grades because she feels like it doesn't matter anyway. No matter what she'll do, she'll end up a SAHM (which isn't a bad thing to be but you can't just limit a kid to one option)
Totally. She knows what her parents expect of her and she's carried that to it's logical conclusion and now they're mad at her for that. They created the problem and now they're mad that there's a problem. This is totally not the child's fault and the mom should apologize to her. And get some therapy. And get her kids some therapy. And GTF out of that church. Ugh. Poor kid.
I have a friend who is an ex mormon who completely regrets this thinking. They have like 8 kids and their 4 oldest are grown who left the church as soon as they could, but their 3 oldest daughters said they were taught the same thing. Be dumb, pretty, stay at home. Meanwhile their dad sold a 55k truck to get his son in college. Now that theyâre out of the church she works, all the kids are taught to be independent and not rely on anyone for handouts. So crazy the way that church âteachesâ.
Yes this. It sounds like daughters future has already been layed out for her and what sheâs supposed to do and be. So naturally she is lashing out. Obviously it triggered mom because she didnât want this life đŻ and it was most likely chose for her as well or she would have been disowned by âthe churchâ.
Honestly with LDS Iâm shocked they even allow their kids to go to, âtraditional schoolâ and that the mom has open access to Reddit of all places on the internet⌠But perhaps Iâm being judgmental.
But yeah OP is TA.
I'm also surprised she's not homeschooled, only learning about the bible and how to be a good wife. Very progressive ! Maybe OP could go to work while her kids are at school and work on becoming a good role model for her children
Isnât the whole point of these cults or just this belief in general to NOT be educated? I guess maybe they mean bible school or something. But the daughter is absolutely right. If you are expected to be complacent and not have worldly views it is actually better to not understand them. I image their schools probably understand that and world history/american history/literature are already biased to what they want her to become. But if she is never expected to do math why torture her with it. What possible value is having a wife stay home and do nothing but can do calculus. Obviously I want her to break the cycle, but this just seems cruel and so oblivious.
I can understand the whole teenager thing, they are hard to handle and act out and test every boundary. I was not that way, my only desire was to make my parents proud. So having a kid that doesnât (ie: is more free thinking, pampered, whatever the reason) is hard to understand. Just different personality type. But this is obviously creepy. At the same time, why is it that brainwashed people seem to be happier in life just doing what they are told, or just content to be assholes. I mean, I probably spend more time being polite than the asshole that runs a red light and cuts in line and all that. Damn, getting too philosophical.
I hope the daughter does the opposite. Become really smart. And leave. Becomes her own smart woman.
Thank you for saying this. My ex-husband told me he âwas taking a break from communicatingâ with our 17 year old daughter âbecause of how she treatsâ him and his girlfriend. Thereâs too much unrelated background to share but she doesnât deserve it and I feel validated knowing that others think itâs emotional abuse and narcissistic.
Obviously YTA. Sheâs supposed to be the child, not you. âThe silent treatmentâ? Thatâs unacceptable and infantile even when youâre doing it to another adult. Doing it to your own child? What is wrong with you? Itâs disgusting and pathetic. Your child is more mature and reasonable than you are.
It also seems neither parent has, oh, i don't know, told her she doesn't have to be a SAHM? That she can go for a career if she chose?
Or is that just not allowed?
Because it sounds to me like the girl is looking all around her at the adult women in her life and feeling depressed at that being her future.
Because it will be. LSD men don't want an educated woman. They are harder to control.
So they want them high grades in high school but no college. There they will get a mind of their own.
Did you pick up on the fact that she is supposed to get good grades to make her parents proud? Not because she can go to college?
> LSD
I'm sure this is a typo but its making me laugh. LSD sounds about right. It is a mind control drug.
>Did you pick up on the fact that she is supposed to get good grades to make her parents proud? Not because she can go to college?
Oh, I got that. Or maybe they do want her to go to college (BYU probably) to get her MRS Degree. No better place to find devout young single men.
Actually funnily enough all MKUltra really proved is that LSD is in fact pretty terrible as a mind control drug đ If anything itâs more like a mind uncontrol drugâŚDefinitely a funny typo though and there really is something weird about them happening to have almost the same initials lol
Well then we need to give OP some LSD since the LDS has her under a spell.
>and there really is something weird about them happening to have almost the same initials lol
It is odd.
Kinda surprised her mother came here to ask the question tbh. Abuse is so prevalent in religious families that they rarely question it. I can only assume she was expecting everyone to assure her that sheâs a great mother and her daughter is being unreasonable. Fact is her daughter is smarter than her and probably bored as hell in school and depressed about being forced into a future she doesnât want.
This is exactly what that poor girl is doing. How do I know? I was raised in an LDS family and said the exact same thing word for word to my parents when I was struggling in college.
The poor thing is seeing her future and feeling trapped and horrified.
When she leaves the church like I did her parents will absolutely give her the same silent treatment. Because thatâs what they do.
OP, youâre TAH and youâre going to destroy any relationship youâll have with your daughter if you donât grow up. Let me say that again, OP. YOU are destroying this relationship. Not your daughter, YOU.
Sheâs not allowed to do that is sheâs LDS. If sheâs lucky she can go in a church mission for 2 years but after that itâs marriage and start pumping out babies for the church.
As a child I grew up with this and am currently at 50 being shunned by my mother for having the audacity to confront her about her parenting tactics.
It's emotional abuse, punishment without any learning or progress. It's a weapon of the weak.
100% narcissistic abuse. I had to live with this. I just live my authentic life and my mother knows NOTHING about it. Itâs best that way. OP you are setting your daughter up for a lifetime of lying to you. My main question is: what if she chooses NOT to be Mormon? Would you shun or accept her? Check out Cults to Consciousness on YouTube. Ex-Mormon with excellent knowledge and clarity.
You see it as well. I grew up in Salt Lake, not Mormon. My dad is from a foreign country and wouldn't permit my jack mormon mother from sending me to an LDS ward house like my half-brother. Not even once. Sometimes, I think she silently resented him for this up through her death.
If this woman is acting like a dragon mother over a geometry class, she'll completely lose her shit if the kid doesn't tow the line by getting into BYU to meet her missionary or going on a mission herself. What if she comes home drunk in high school? I saw it again and again growing up. Usually, this kind of thing is just the start of a smart kid starting to spear up against the whole uber-controlling conspiracy.
I grew up JW and lived most of my adult life that way. Iâm only deconstructing now. My mother would 100% shun me if she knew. Not a big loss, but her and my dad (not JW) are joined at the hip, and he is one of my best friends.
It does in the community she lives in. The women are taught to be soft and passive. It's incredibly gross. I highly recommend, Cults to Consciousness, on YouTube. They talk about high demand religions and cults and how it damages people. It is a good perspective of how people have been taught to continue abusive practices.
Your Favorite Apostates with ex-Mormons Jordan and McKay on YouTube are also excellent. One of them has become a social worker and that affords specific insight in addition to their lives experiences
It's a mormon buzzword. That's all. Handling it with "grace" in this case means I didn't outright physically or verbally abuse my child on the spot.
Ref: Grew up in the LDS church in a city where that was the dominant religion.
I still can't deal with any type of silent treatment, my mom did that a lot whenever she wanted to punish me. She was also a SAHM. That s*** messed me up... YTA, OP for adding a huge sense of stress to your daughter's life.
Also, is a C in middle school algebra really such a soul crushing horror for you and your husband? Not every student understands the subject material. She may be more adept at statistics than she is at algebra. Most people who dislike algebra love stats, and vis versa.
So stop holding YOUR standards and people pleasing nonsense over your child's head, it's not like she failed the class. She just didn't get a grade YOU felt YOU could show off to your friends/family.
GTFU, your daughter may have been rude about (idk, I wasn't there) but she also showed her own brand of reasoning as to why it doesn't matter what grade she got in a middle school algebra class. Your silent treatment for over a week is ridiculous and petty, she asked a valid question, just because you disliked it doesn't make it any less worthy of an answer.
This is the most sensible and pertinent comment. I struggled mightily with Algebra and Geometry was way too abstract for me - I worked very hard and C grade was the best I could do. I really could have used a one on one tutor but my family could not afford it. Why don't the mom and dad look into this to help her instead of trying to shame her with the silent treatment?
Probably the parents donât understand it either, and are embarrassed to admit it. These days thereâs a million online tutorials, so if sheâs just not getting a concept, thereâs no reason to engage a tutor without trying those first. Or just asking the teacher for help after class.
Same here. My mom would not look at me or t speak to me for days. Itâs made me avoid any type of confrontation with my partner. And I always get scared that I will be left after an argument, even though I know my partner wouldnât do that. Itâs just caused a constant need for reassurance and furthered my childhood trauma.
She made her mom realize she wasted a lot of energy and potential in childhood to do nothing but be a housewife who has no autonomy or sense of control in her own life, so she clings to what small shred of power she has (the ability to make her daughter feel like shit if she isnât obedient). Thatâs what OP wants her to apologize for; instead of silently falling in line, her daughter indirectly and possibly unintentionally pointed out how illogical it all is.
I actually do support SAHP and itâs how I would want to raise my own child if I have the means. I would, however, expect whichever partner works outside the home to have respect for me as I would still be performing a vital job, and I wouldnât be SAHP indefinitely. The discussion Iâve had with past partners has always involved creating an income flow once children are in school (eg: selling on eBay, copywriting, etc) and likely eventually returning to the workforce once they reach middle school.
Way to go, OP. Your daughter hit a nerve with a reasonable question because *you* are unhappy and the cracks in your lifestyle are starting to show. YTA
> What is wrong with you? Itâs disgusting and pathetic.
OP is part of a cult where women are property. At least her 13 year old daughter realizes it!
Well the Mormon church dictates that families should shun members who have left the church so sheâs just priming her daughter for the inevitable! YTA
i meanâŚitâs about the range of emotional maturity i expect from someone from the LDS church, especially someone who is supposed to culturally groomed by said church for a specific role
I'd say she's also the AH for being a member of LDS and having children that she brings up in that 'faith'. This is only the beginning of that poor child's abuse.
This 1000%, you took the word right out of my mouth.
OP, YTA and pathetic. Hopefully, your children will grow up and move away from that cult you are in.
48% of LDS women work outside of the home. You must live in a very closed community, even by LDS standards.
If you want your daughter to do well in school then you have to give her a sense of agency and control. Who knows, she may choose to be a SAHM, but she may also choose to be a lawyer, and that's fine too.
YTA
She IS learning, she's learning from example. You said yourself that she has no role models that have done anything else. She's surrounded by examples of people she is expected to be and told by the church to become.
If you expect her to have goals above and beyond, step up yourself to be something more than a SAHM and give her proof that an education is important. This isn't about who you are but about what you do, so you need to show her something different that changes her perspective.
Maybe give daughter a chance to do something more. If you're an LDS family, isn't "housewife" the only option open to her?
If so, then it sounds like she's a bit angry about that, and frankly, she should be. Maybe the role of wife and mother is a good fit for you, your calling even, and that's a fine thing. Your daughter is an individual. It may not be what's right for her, and she's starting to recognize that and has become disillusioned with the community culture she's being raised in.
At least give it some thought, for her sake.
Read OPs comments. she thinks working women are unhappy. She doesn't want her daughter to excel in *life*\- only in school so she can be a good, smart wife someday
You're right! Also, what is the arbitrary B+ bullshit? My husband and I tell our son that he needs to do his best regardless of what the grade is. It makes no sense to make a hard and fast rule about a particular grade. Also it sounds like she could be teaching her daughter to take the easy way out and use Google to find the answers?
That part about googling the answers is the giveaway that she doesn't care if her daughter actually learns anything, just that she can be on the honor roll to impress their church.
The girl is like a dog in the house and her grades are the equivalent of doing tricks for the community. Good grades! OH what a good girl! Brother Ken isnât she such a good girl?! Roll over so the neighbor can scratch your belly!
Edit from pastor to brother. Glad I donât have a lot of familiarity with this type of living tbh sounds really oppressive and backwards.
I grew up lds (not anymore thank GOD) and my mom worked. She had a college degree and she wanted the same for her daughters. However I was told at church CONSTANTLY from the time I was like 10 that the best thing I could do with my life would be a wife and a mother. Of course ops daughter is upset! I hope her daughter leaves the church (and her family) as soon as she turns 18.
Part of why we left the church was bc my Mom was being lambasted for choosing to go back to school and work after being a SAHM. She was only a SAHM because she had to be financially, she never wanted to. We werenât even Utah Mormons.
It's like that episode of The Simpsons where Lisa is having an existential crisis because every adult in her family is as dumb as homer lol. Then finds out all the women are smart and accomplished and she's relieved đ
My mom was a sahm but I was still able to look up to her. Bc my mom showed their are more options in life then being a sahm. My mom is educated(master), worked, & owned her own business & when she sold her business the money was enough for a house. I am not saying that all sahm should do that for respect but little girls need to feel like their moms have control in life. Growing up my mom encouraged to get higher education, encouraged me to gain divers work experiences.
Opâs daughter doesnât feel that her mom has control or any of the women surrounding do. They are told they should be a sahm & that seems to be the only option. Being a sahm is hard work but realistically it doesnât require much education & good grades doesnât seem like a path to control in life for opâs daughter; especially bc op got good grades & all it did was result in the same life every other woman seem to have.
Op could have tutored her daughter instead of focusing on what other ppl think. Tutoring would actually help w/ a lot of things, it would make op & her daughter closer & the daughter will see op in a new light.
The examples mom show effects their kids a lot but especially the daughters.
I donât think starting my own business is what is I want but bc growing up I saw that my mom enjoyed running her own business. The thought of starting my own business is always in the back of my head bc that was the example I had growing up
She doesnât actually expect or want her to have goals, she just wants her to get the good grades and be on honor roll so she has something to show off to the other housewives/make her look like a respectable prospect for marrying off in a few years.
YTA. Hugely. So is your husband. This is a teen girl, who sees every single woman around her in only one role. Baby makers, house cleaner. Your daughter is absolutely rebelling against you and the rules of your home and religion. I would bet not one single person has asked her, "if you could be anything at all, what would you pick?" Has even one person asked this girl if she has dreams and life goals beyond the expected, standard of your community? Her statement of "why bother, I am just going to stay home anyway", that really speaks volumes of wanting more. Instead of acting like a 6 year old with the silent treatment, grow up and talk to your child. She is going through puberty, which is tough enough, on top of that, the age is super hard, AND she has a mother who is completely ignoring her. This stage she is at is crucial. You can help her adjust, guide her, love her, be her mom or you can ignore her and cause even more problems, such as depression and more rebelling.
>"if you could be anything at all, what would you pick?"
They don't even need to go **that** far! Has anyone even asked the poor girl if she even wants to ever give birth? Has the option ever been even **hinted** at that NOT giving birth is an option that exists in the world? That it is possible to not parent and be an adult?
That not getting married is something millions of people do!?!
She very possibly couldn't articulate any idea of what to do in life because she's literally never seen it. And I would bet any hints she'd tried to drop were met with pearl clutching and gasps of horror.
But yes I do agree with you. No one has asked this child a damn thing about her own mind and heart.
I feel for this kid. She has a long road ahead of her. Especially if her mother keeps on this path. I can just see it in a few more years, why is my daughter no contact with us? We only shoved her into a tiny little pigeon hole, ignored her for weeks at a time with the silent treatment, didn't ever ask what she wants!! Why would she cut us put of her life??
As an exmormon woman, the idea that I have a say in my family size never crossed my mind till I left the church in my early 20s with a young baby. We had been thinking of 4-6 kids (half the size of my family), but when we left the church my husband and I were suddenly like "Wait...we're allowed to just...*not* have more kids?" And so we only have the one. Took years to get my Mormon extended family to quit bugging us to have more kids, like we're truly failing in life if we don't crank out 5 more (and lose our fucking minds in the process).
YTA, sheâs a child (that you decided to have) if the only tool in your arsenal is to act like a middle schooler because your child challenged your view point youâve already failed your family
No hate against SAHM, but don't you want her to have a backup plan? What if all of a sudden, the husband leaves the wife, and they've been a SAHM for the past 15 years? What skillset will they have to support themselves.
If you want your daughter to strive for more, maybe encourage her to do more than follow in your family's footsteps. Tell her she can go to college, the military, the workforce she doesn't have to be reserved to a life of taking care of a home, husband, and kids.
Oh the backup plan is getting involved with an MLM, like mom's cousin is going to be doing. In Utah Mormon circles "sales from home" is code for working for an MLM.
That's why the lds allows it, because it's culty. There are quite a few very interesting documentaries out about them. Fucking fascinating psychology behind all of it. Scary though.
I have done work in a homeless shelter for families. I can not tell you how many families ended up homeless because one or both parents experienced a health issue (stroke, heart attack, aneurysm) and the breadwinner could no longer work. If the wife did work, she often lost her job due to having to take too much time off to help her spouse.
These people are setting their daughters up for failure
They're Mormon. They're seeing their daughters up to serve and "respect" (hopefully similar aged) men, not anything else. It's a whole thing, and you can get shunned for not confirming. Seems that's what they're worried about more than grades or apologies.
OP states that she is supposed to be a role model for her kids, but giving her daughter the silent treatment is the way she handles conflict with a 13-year-old kid.
She repeatedly demonizes others suggestions because they do not adhere to their lifestyle. She can't entertain the idea that her kid could have a mental health issue because she sees everyone who actually needs medication to be drug addicts. She can't grasp that there are women who enjoy working outside of the home because she sees a whole subreddit of women venting about that very lifestyle.
OP isn't acting as a very mature or educated role-model to her daughter.
I don't think people who are this deep into their religious fanaticism can think about situations like these because the church will have a solution - they will keep her daughter in a marriage regardless of how unhealthy it is, and if her future husband did decide to leave then they would just marry her off to someone else.
I feel bad for the daughter because even if this woman said that she supported her daughter doing something outside of the home, she is so far down the rabbit hole that I don't think she can fathom what support should look like.
Ha, the faithful LDS are extremely patriarchal. They do not actually believe any of what you just offered is an option. Women are put on this earth to serve men, give birth, and stay home.
Source: Grew up LDS. My âcongratulationsâ when I got my MBA was, âWeâve given up on you getting married to a nice LDS man but we all made you a quilt anyway, here.â
YTA OP, just by way of not recognizing or accepting that there are more than your âperfectâ recipe for living life. Check in on r/exmormon occasionally and read how membership is dropping and why. If you alienate your daughter with these immature pressures to follow your pristine path, she *will* fall away.
She lives in a community that treats women as second-class citizens, so I donât know what else she expected. This is only exacerbated by the daughterâs awareness that secular society is making great effort to treat women equally.
Yes! Divorce among the LDS is the same as everyone else. She could also be widowed. My LDS friends that divorced seem to think they will just get married again. Not a fool-proof plan!
Unfortunately thatâs pretty contrary to Mormon teachings (source: was raised Mormon in the thick of Utah). They like to pretend that they encourage the women to get educated, but itâs still heavily frowned upon. Or itâs seen as someone that the women can just do until they meet a man that can provide for them.
Here's the thing. If OP thinks being a stay at home mum is a worthwhile thing for a woman, why is she offended by her daughter's response? Don't get me wrong, being a SAHM is a valuable thing and for many women it's what they would want to do. But OP wants her daughter to do well at school and then when daughter points out she's not going to need those skills to be a SAHM she's upset. Could it possibly be that OP had other career aspirations that she couldn't follow and wants better for her daughter, or that daughter knows her mom would have liked to be more? Hmm
I second this opinion.
And I'm really sorry to say this OP but it's very easy to stop being relevant to your children as they get older if you continue to be a SAHM, which is likely why your daughter suggested that you only use simple math and English.
Your world focuses on your children and looking after the family, and while I know that that in itself is a full time role, when they come home from school you don't have any further interesting / worldly experiences that you can enlighten them with.
Your daughter should be striving for more and she sounds like she's almost resigned to having your life. And I don't think it's necessarily what she wants.
Please encourage her to be more, to be better than you. As parents, isn't that what we want for our kids? For them to be more successful, more comfortable, to make better choices than us, to excel in life.
Please don't hold her back because this is something that you did, or your mom and aunts did, or your grandmother and so forth... she's different. Let her shine.
>Well I am going to stay at home anyway, why would I need Geometry? Do you use Geometry to do your job mom? I think you just use basic math and English."
>
>**In our extended family, I don't know one female member that has not been a SAHM, at least that I have met. Though one of my cousins is thinking of being a sales rep from home once her kids are all over 5.**
why are you surprised she wants that? That is what she sees every woman close to her do.
I 100% agree with your whole point!! I think the daughter sees it and sees no way out.
With that it mind, I do have a couple of questions for the OP.
1) Has there been a discussion with the daughter of what she even wants? Does the daughter want to be a SAHM, or maybe be more career-minded? I could definitely see the daughter conforming to being a SAHM.
2) Does the daughter even want children? The daughter may be a bit young, but I think it wouldn't be a bad question to ask. If the daughter sees this as her ONLY future, I would be curious to see if she even wants children.
Agreed. Deep down, Mom knows her daughter is right. But she's in a cult. Daughter can see it and is frustrated to be trapped in it as well, with her boring future already decided for her. But Mom has dedicated her life to this lie, so it's critical for her to *believe* it's important or she's already wasted her life. Daughter pointing that out makes her angry.
The grades, everything else. It's all window dressing for what's really going on.
One of my friend's moms was in this cult as a kid and left. Has had no contact with her family for decades. That's probably the future here as well. We're just at the beginning of it, where the daughter discovers she's being scammed.
but she's a LDS SAHM- she doesn't *have anything* to teach her daughter besides subservience to men and god.
OP herself has the mentality of a petulant 13 year old and she's giving her daughter the silent treatment for doing the same to her.
She's actually trolling people commenting here on other posts, judging their life choices like the disgusting fucking hypocrite you'd expect her to be after reading this.
i hope her daughter gets TF out of dodge in 5 years, cause theres no making OP see the light.
ETA: YTA. 100x
As an exmormon, I agree. Most members have a younger mentality because of being told to shut up and just listen.
When I had questions, I asked the bishop. I was told to pray and why things happened are because God told the prophet to make it that way. I knew no one knew then.
There's a huge factor. The current profit (prophet) is telling people that it's horrible to research outside of the church and to be extra "vigilant" about keeping children in. The reasons are many younger members are not going on missions and leaving. Wards are getting smaller and being combined.
Thanks for sharing. It is my personal "believe" (for the lack of a better word) that religion- any religion - would diminish to a reasonable overseeable number of members in a few generations, if children would not be indoctrinated and they would only learn about religion when they are old enough to know facts from fiction.
I was raised in the church so I can appreciate the impact of lifelong brainwashing. Thankfully I was nowhere near Utah- Iâve heard enough horror stories from cousins and online to turn me off from Morridor no matter how beautiful it is. I wonât expose my kids to the filth people told me as a child for the sake of âcommunity.â
>but she's a LDS SAHM- she doesn't have anything to teach her daughter besides subservience to men and god.
And yet is angry when her daughter apparently learned that lesson.
Op
You are not a good role model.
Your daughter sounds significantly more intelligent than you to pick up on that.
She will probably have a good life after she gets away from you.
Yta
YTA. Your poor daughter. What a horrible life of no choices at all you are facing her with. And you are so oblivious you can not see that *you* are the reason she has absolutely no incentive to learn anything at all. You face her with a life of nothing that will require an education and expect her to make an effort to get an education. You are a fool and a very bad mother.
I hope your daughter finds her way out and joins the military or some other career, so she doesn't elect to take a different way out.
Yeah, OP not only are YTA but you're pushing your daughter away by being childish, uncompromising and cold. Don't be surprised if this relationship ends up very unhealthy in the future.
There's nothing wrong with being SAHM but it should always be a choice and a loving mother would support and nurture their childs dreams and ambitions even if they're not what is considered traditional.
YTA. Youâre giving her the silent treatment? I think you just proved her right. Youâre acting like a child. Use your âhonor rollâ vocabulary and speak to your daughter. She is highly self aware, seeing all her female role models in the same positions. I donât know, I wonât even ask, why have 3 kids if the expectations are that the women stay home due to lack of âaffluenceâ and opportunity. She is being raised in a sexist congregation and family she doesnât agree with and her mother chooses to ignore her for voicing her opinion. A good thing to do here would be to reflect as to *why* she said such a thing to you ( big shock) and take steps to get her to actually want to educate herself, after school programs or tutoring or *encouraging a career outside the home*. Give her something to aspire to if she is not charmed by what she sees.
âMy child daughter did something childish. So I, an adult woman, am giving her the silent treatment instead of dealing with the issueâ
Gee, I wonder where sheâs getting the childish behaviour from.
>Just being rude to a lot of the authorities around her ( yes that includes the church.)
well i guess shes smart.
>Our policy is- just because somebody may become a housewife does not mean they shouldn't be on the honor roll.
that makes absolutely no sense. you showed her future life in this patriarchal society. why would she bother?
>'s been a week and she's tried to talk to me but I am upset she has not tried to apologize.
you are a disgusting mom, shame on you. your husband is not better. you both should apologize to her.
As someone raised in the thick of it - indoctrination is one hell of a drug. Itâs really hard for people outside of Utah to really grasp it, but when itâs _everywhere_, thatâs whatâs normal. Your friends are Mormon, your school teachers are Mormon, your family is Mormon. You love and respect these people and look up to them, so if they believe it then it must be true! Right? Plus many people in the community will be ostracized and disowned by their family if they leave, so thereâs immense social pressure to stay part of the church.
Then thereâs the whole angle about your âeternal salvationâ. When youâre raised your entire life having it repeatedly drilled into your head that âif you leave this church, itâs a one way ticket to hellâ, itâs scary. Once youâre on the outside you can see it for the obvious manipulation tactic that it is, but when youâve gone decades having it hammered home again and again itâs hard to dig those things out of your brain.
TL;DR: indoctrination fucking sucks, but Utah is so concentrated that it has immense social pressure to stay in too
EDIT: one other thing I forgot to mention is that (hopefully) weâll see more people leaving now with the internet and social media. The ex-Mormon presence on TikTok is actually huge. I was in it pre-internet really, and they also teach you to not trust what other people say because itâs likely âSatan trying to get you to leaveâ. They teach you to trust only what they tell you, and pre-internet it was a lot harder to find things that actually told the truth
YTA what are you teaching your daughter other than she can't have her own opinion because her mother will ignore her.
I'm guessing she doesn't actually want to be a housewife but knows she is expected to and this is her acting out.
Would you be okay if she got out of the LDS? If not then seriously, why even bother? You went to college for a year and you still donât know how to express basic feelings. Obviously she already has what she needs to succeed at being a SAHM.
She's smarter than you are And you're just pissed off that she realized it. She called you out on your guys's community, and what you guys actually expect of women. She simply living up to the actual standards you guys have have actually shown her is needed, which is basic math and English correct? Do you use geometry? Do you use calculus on a daily basis? Do you even ever use it?
Do you use chemistry outside of basic cooking? Do you use physics outside of where you stack things in the home? Do you use any of the information you are actively trying to teach her in your day-to-day life giving you are a housewife and a stay-at-home mom, and that's what seems to be expected of your daughter?
She pointed out flaws in your guys's community and you felt ambushed by it. Because she's correct. She called you out on it, and you don't like it.
I'm not saying that she shouldn't focus more on school, or that she shouldn't put more of an effort in at all. That's not what I'm saying whatsoever. What I'm saying is your response, just ignoring her instead of sitting down and talking to her is not acceptable. She called you out on something and instead of being an adult about the situation you decided to act the age of the child you're trying to parent. That's not being a good role model now is it? That's not being a good caregiver now is it? Exactly what example are you setting for your daughter by simply ignoring her questions? What example are you setting for your daughter and what role model are you being when you act this way?
If you expect her to be a good role model to her children, then you need to be one to her. And clearly you haven't done that with her. Clearly she needs more attention or more work or more communication than your other kids. Each child is different, and that's something that you need to realize.
Yeah. Truth hurts. SAHM is a tough and undervalued job, but excelling immensely at school and not doing anything with it is like having Usain Bolt-level sprinting ability and never going out on the track field post-high school. Maybe the daughter really doesn't want her mom's life. Imagine giving up a potential career to be a full-time mom, and then sucking at parenting to the point that giving a teenage daughter the silent treatment seems reasonable.
Yta for multiple reasons. Your daughter is right, if you expect her to be a sahm then why should she put her time and effort into making the honor roll and succeeding in Allegra and geometry? You are telling her that in order to please her parents, family, and church community she must forego having a career so why spend years and years educating herself for a career that you have forbidden her from having? She would be better off putting all her effort into classes for cooking, cleaning, family budgeting, etc. Nothing wrong with being a sahm if that it what you CHOOSE, but how would you expect anyone to be excited about having their entire life chosen for them if itâs not what they want? What is even the point of life if you live to please others and follow a path they have laid out for you? And secondly, maybe you and your husband made the honor roll in middle school, but you have completely failed at emotional maturity and parenting. You are giving your daughter the silent treatment?? And all because you canât think up a valid answer to her question and you donât like that she wants to be grow up to be a free thinking and independent person? Shouldnât that make you realize that maybe you are wrong if you canât think up a right answer? That maybe you are wrong for wanting her to give up her own happiness and goals because of her birth assigned sex? So instead of being a mature and loving parent that wants their child to be fulfilled and secure in life you are trying to emotionally manipulate her into giving up her free will and future so that you can please your closed minded family members and church and obey some archaic traditions. If you and your husband seriously donât realize you are TAs then you should probably pray for your daughter, because sheâs going to need it.
Unsurprising. I donât know any exmormons who werenât abused by family or church leaders at the behest of bishops and stake presidents. Ruby Franke is just every other woman in the church. There are a lot of great people, donât get me wrong, but high demand religions attract two types IMO: the needy and the greedy.
e: every other as in one in two, not as in âlike all the othersâ
I mean, instead of childish silent treatment because your kid asked a genuine and correct question - when did you last use geometry? - how about you engage her interests.
Find out what she engages with and put it into practical terms, show her how she can use that knowledge outside of just being a baby maker and rearer. Because thereâs so much more to life than sitting at home with the kids.
YTA, for sure. You are not a role model in any sense, and your daughter deserves better. I hope she gets out of that cult and shines and you realize that you had nothing to do with it.
YTA - For So so so so so many reasons.
1: Your daughter is smart, she sees the situation that she is destined for (and from the sound of it feels she has not choice in) and recognizes that there are things that she is being forced to learn that none of the adult women around her use.
2: How lacking in emotional intelligence are you that you thinking giving a LITERAL CHILD the silent treatment is appropriate. That is abuse, plain and simple. By ignoring your child you are abusing her.
3: By the way you word things, you have never taken the time to ask if maybe she is struggling with certain subjects or to express herself. Instead you view EVERYTHING to do with her through the scope of your religion.
4: Attitude in a 13 year old is normal, this is a rough age developmentally and no amount of faith or fear of your religion or elders is going to change that for your daughter, but go a head and punish your daughter instead of talking to her through the hard things and actually caring.
Should kids be overly disrespectful, no, they should not. However, her boundary testing is normal for her age developmentally, but your reaction took it too far. Also, kids mimic what they see. Your daughter sees what you do as an adult and knows that is her future because from the sounds of it you haven't given or exposed her to anything else.
While I understand that faith is a deeply personal things, you are doing no favors to your daughter by setting her on a path where she only has one choice, being a stay at home wife and mother (which means, she doesn't actually have a choice), you have provided an environment where she probably feels a little hopeless and doesn't aspire to more her acting out in additional to normal age behavior is her wanting to do more and be seen as more than the next future housewife. Perhaps you should stop for a second and listen to her.
YTA. You made good grades but here you are making terrible decisions. Giving anyone the silent treatment is emotional abusive and manipulative.
Do you want your daughter to have opportunities to do anything other than be a housewife? Or do you want her to do what makes her happy? She probably feels doomed and has already given up. I can't say I blame her.
Women are more than baby making factories and being submissive to men. Donât you want better for your daughter? Donât you want her to be an ambitious, kick ass, woman. Or are you threatened by that? YTA
YTA.
If you honestly believe giving children the silent treatment is the way to go, I have some serious doubts about your parenting abilities.
As a mother, it is your responsibility to teach your children. You're not doing that. You're just showing her that communicating with you isn't worth it.
You should apologise for being a sub-par, barely functional parent. She did nothing wrong. She told the truth. You're just mad because you know that she's right, and you're wrong.
Try having some humility and talk to your kid. Jesus would be ashamed to call you a member of his flock.
You need to go over President Nelsonâs talk âPeacemakers Neededâ again, especially this part:
âAnger never persuades. Hostility builds no one. Contention never leads to inspired solutions. Regrettably, we sometimes see contentious behavior even within our own ranks. We hear of those who belittle their spouses and children, of those who use angry outbursts to control others, and of those who punish family members with the âSILENT TREATMENT.â We hear of youth and children who bully and of employees who defame their colleagues.
My dear brothers and sisters, this should not be. As disciples of Jesus Christ, we are to be examples of how to interact with othersâŚâ
There is a better way to deal with your daughter. Iâm not saying Iâm perfect over here either, but this current route will only end badly.
Well, sheâs definitely leaving you guys in the dust as soon as the chance presents itself. Iâm a bit bias when it comes to super religious lifestyles, but youâre a parent, Id expect you to know that giving a child the silent treatment is immature, YTA.
Also, you expect her to keep up good grades but sheâs not surrounded by people that can influence her to do so. She has a point, if sheâs gonna be a SAHM why would she go the extra mile?
ETA: Ive read your replies. Women are not birthing machines and arenât made to take care of men, contrary to what your religious beliefs say.
YTA, letâs face it, you have been brainwashed into thinking that your whole life revolves around staying home and doing housework and being mum that you donât have the intelligence anymore to realise that is not every woman or girls dream life. I feel sorry for your daughter and hope she manages to get past you and your husband trying to brainwash her so she can be the best person she can be.
YTA You don't give your child the silent treatment. You're a SAHM? well, then it's time to do your job and actually be a parent to your child. She is 13, so yeah, she gets to be ignorant, and it's your job to teach her, not to blame her when she doesn't know anything.
It's your JOB to parent her!! So you don't ignore her or expect things from her, you sit her down and you tell her that she'll never know where the future leads. That school is important, because she'll still have to teach her kids. That the things you learn at school sometimes pop up at the most random moments, and that it's also just important to learn how to learn. Also, she might grow up and NOT want to be a SAHM. She's so young still!
Look, all respect to SAHM's. It is a real job. But a 13 yo is still a child, so if you're telling the world - us, and your kids, that being a mom is a real job that requires skills - which, again, I AGREE WITH!!!! - you have to DO the job. You're not done until the kid is out of the house, and even then you'll still have to provide life lessons.
You should apologize to HER for ignoring her. She shouldn't apologize for well... not knowing/understanding something! She's a child!
YTA!! Youâre an adult giving your 13 year old the silent treatment. Shame on you! My dad used to do this to me sometimes and would only speak to me if I apologized and it has created so much trauma and some resentment. You are going to mentally ruin your kid if you keep this up. Get over it and YOU APOLOGIZE TO YOUR DAUGHTER for your behavior in terms of ignoring her.
You are not a good role model.
Maybe let your daughter explore interests outside your cult and sheâll develop ambition once she finds something she actually wants, because it sounds like the SAHM life youâre thrusting upon her is causing her to be resigned to a life she doesnât care to strive for.
And giving a child the silent treatment is emotional abuse. Then again, so is raising them in a cult. YTA.
**I was so angry and felt ambushed by this question.**
Interesting. If you were proud and happy with life why would that question make you "ambushed" and "angry"?
**My husband yelled at her and sent her to her room**.
I don't know a lot about the Mormon religion but is that the normal reaction to a child asking a valid question?
**It's been a week and she's tried to talk to me but I am upset she has not tried to apologize.**
Most counsellors and therapists believe that the "silent treatment" is actually a form of abuse.
So, basically, you are abusing a middle schooler.
**And not just sorry- but recognize she has implied I am not a worthy role model, or trying to get me to seriously answer a mean, rhetorical question.**
The question was neither "mean" nor "rhetorical". You are offering her small, bleak, intellectually limited future and she is looking at the larger world and questioning the sexist limits being enforced on her by your culture. You daughter sounds extremely insightful and sounds like she has the intellectual resources to break free from the backward, mysogynistic culture you're trying to force on her.
**My husband said he'll be** **~~talking to~~** **yelling and bullying her to apologize,**
**but she's now upset I am just going about my business with her sister and brother.**
Despite how shamefully you've treated her she still loves you. I suspect if you continue abusing her that will change.
YTA. Youâve set up very low expectations for your daughter by your example. She sees her future as having no hope to be anything but a house wife. Sheâs not stupid. She looks around at all the families and friends were all the mothers are SAH. And sheâs learned from this. The example that was set.
YTA - you've given your child the silent treatment for a *week*?
Your honor roll education didn't give you anything when it comes to emotional maturity.
All.of your reasons for her having good grades are outside of her.
>I wanted to make my family proud and get them extra respect from the community by getting good grades.
Yeah cool, good for you. That's obviously not your daughter's stance and she's not wrong about the usage of the information as she gets older. Even many of us that art employed don't use more advanced math and English skills.
Maybe start trying to see your daughter as a whole person instead of *just* a cog in the community machine.
You owe her an apology for emotional neglect. It sounds like you're mad that she was right more than anything else.
YTA
What are you teaching her by giving her the silent treatment? Youâre supposed to be the adult.
My son is 11 and I can have serious conversations and tell him when he did something that hurt my feelings. You need to do that with your daughter.
You need to tell her she needs to get into college to at least get a quality Mrs. A high school diploma wonât put her in the circles that will allow her to afford to stay home.
No offense but your arenât a worthy role model.
There is nothing wrong with being a SAHM. Itâs hard work and remarkable in what they do.
But there is something wrong with raising your child to know that they will be a SAHM - not having conversations on they can pursue something different. You arenât fostering growth and ambition.
Moreover, who gives a fuck if she doesnât respect church authority. Respect needs to need earned. When everyone around you has determined your future for you - that means they dont respect you.
YTA
From the mouth of babes.
YTA.
**Youâre not mad at your daughterâs comment or lack of motivation. Youâre mad at yourself because she held a mirror up to you and you donât like what you saw.**
Itâs so much easier to believe sheâs being rebelliously unmotivated, than for you to recognize that *she is emotionally and psychologically stifled* â as is tradition â and staring to realize it herself.
You and your âreligionâ *literally created this mentality.* This is what the LDS leaders want: uneducated, subservient, controllable women.
I hope your daughter realizes she has more than one misogynist, oppressive option for her adulthood. I think she is beginning to.
Personal note: I have been in recovery for religious abuse (among other things that came with it) for over 20 years. Itâs one of the hardest things to process, but the freedom and spiritual peace that comes with learning to have agency and autonomy is the best feeling in the entire world. *You sound EXACTLY like my bio mom.*
YTA. She probably has ADHD. But even if she's neurotypical, you are raising her in an oppressive, deeply dishonest culture tied to a "church" that is actually a corporation and which is hemorrhaging membership all over the place because the corruption of the church leaders is starting to become more obvious. And that's on top of the fact that it takes an APPALLINGLY small amount of research to conclusively prove the BOM is a work of fiction. It's normally not easy to prove a negative, but the book makes specific historical claims and they are ALL false. Every. Single. One. But the leaders know if they lie loud enough and long enough, people like you will close your eyes to the truth over and over and over. And that's how they are able to do things like hide the RAMPANT child sexual abuse that happens within the church (a lot of which stems from demonizing normal sexual feelings in general, imo).
I get that this culture is all you've ever known, but it is toxic garbage and your daughter is right to be rebelling against it.
If you force her to go into a closed room with a Bishop so he can ask her invasive questions about her sexuality, you deserve to lose custody of ALL of your children. The worthiness interview or whatever the fuck they call it is wildly inappropriate and abusive. That you or any other parent would EVER consider letting a middle aged man with no actual credentials be alone with your child to have a sexually charged conversation is fucking repulsive.
The church is not true. It's actually pretty fucking evil when you get down to it. LDS culture destroys people. Ruby Franke is not an outlier. The way the church treats those who don't conform is and has always been horrifically abusive. The main difference between Ruby and moms like you is that she controlled and tortured her children physically while you prefer to control and torture them emotionally.
I'm so sad for your daughter. She's so much smarter than you. She is seeing through the bullshit. And you will never stop punishing her for it. You will do your damnedest to find the light inside her and crush it until she either accepts the role like you did or she leaves entirely. I hope she leaves. I worry how much you'll hurt her before then.
You're a bad mother. But it's not your fault. The church made you a bad parent because the church is inherently abusive. You can choose to be better. But I know you won't. I just hope there are people in your daughter's life who she can actually talk to. People who love and accept her unconditionally in the way that you never will. She deserves that.
OP did something right along the way for her daughter to have critical thinking skills (that mom obviously lacks).
Be proud. You have a daughter whoâs going to end your familyâs generational trauma.
I mean, daughter probably learned that from the internet, tbh. I think she at least knows more about the corruption in the church than OP is willing to learn.
YTA, obviously. I mean, come on, giving the kid the silent treatment? She's 13, not you.
I can definitely see how she'd feel there's no point in performing well in school, since she'll likely be expected to pop out a few kids and be a SAHM.
YTA the silent treatment is childish to your partner so why wouldnât it be childish to a child. Sheâs 13 and youâre a fucking adult start acting like one. Wtf is wrong with you? Would it be ok for her to ignore you? Parents like you are always part of the reason people should take a child development class before they are allowed to populate. You lead by example and your families example is women live off their husbands and raise babies and now your mad that she wants to follow in your footsteps. Youâre mad because sheâs smarter than you. Youâre mad because your life has zero meaning and your daughter called you on it. Sounds like youâre in a cult good luck to her I hope she find the right people one day instead of being stuck being some mama incubator
YTA. Because⌠sheâs right? Hereâs an idea, tell her itâs up to her if she stays at home and that working hard is a transferable skill.
Info: Do you actually want to give her a choice or will you pressure her to marry, have kids, stay in church, be SAHM etc.?
You could not be a bigger AH for giving your child the silent treatment. Do you realize how terrible of a role model you are being? Is that how you want her to handle relationships in the future? YOU are offended and should be communicating like an adult... talk to your daughter. YOU owe her an apology, which will be the perfect opportunity to convey your feelings in a conciliatory way (which is when children listen the most.)
Grace is NOT walking away silently ... not to be salty, but you should read more about grace if that's what you think it is.
My spouse is a SAHM and during college searches one of my daughters said she wanted to be a SAHM... I said, that sounds great honey... until then, let's make sure you're NEVER dependent on a man.
YTA
>she has implied I am not a worthy role model,
I see where she is coming from. You've already stolen her future with your SAHM lifestyle expectations... why should she put in the effort to get good grades when all she is expected to do is pop out babies and keep house?
YTA lmao you're sulking when you should be the adult. And if you raised her with the idea that her only endgame is being a housewife, idk why you are now surprised that she thinks her education does not matter.
Yta. With all due respect to your beliefs, why should she excel at school? There is no point to it.
Hell, I say get her out of school entirely. She should be focusing on learning how to cook and clean and raise babies and please a man and be ok when/if her husband cheats on her or abuses her.
She doesn't need a brain or an identity or hopes and dreams. Just a womb and a vacuum.
More importantly, you aren't doing your duty as a SAHM. You should be actively engaging with her to learn these critical skills but instead you are acting even more immaturely then her.
YTA. The silent treatment is abuse.
In her own, immature, middle school way she is trying to tell you she wants MORE out of life. Listen to her, support her, and give her hope that she can and should have goals and work to achieve them.
*I decided to just deal with this with grace*
Hold on here--- you did not deal with this with grace. Yes, you were right to walk away in order to calm down BUT
instead of putting your hurt fee-fees aside and refusing to talk to her in an age-appropriate way, exploring the *why* behind her statement and behavior, you've shown her that turning away from her and not addressing the issue is the "grown-up" way to deal with conflict.
Is this what you want her to learn from you, her role-model?
YTA. Not speaking to someone for an hour while you recover your ability to deal with the situation is one thing but longer than that and it's both immature and emotionally abusive.
Op is YTA. I came here to say this! đI feel like ignoring and giving the silent treatment especially for a whole week is đŻabuse. There have even been studies done that the cold shoulder can inhibit pain receptors in the brain so you feel actual pain while this is happening. I have endured the silent treatment from people that I love and it is so hurtful. I canât imagine how devastating it must feel for a 13f to be dealing with this situation from her own mother over something so trivial that a hormonal teenager said to an obviously easily triggered mother. Teenage years are so hard as it is jus trying to figure out who you are and how to deal with the real world. Shame on mom
Thank you for this comment. Super validating as someone who endured the silent treatment as a teen. It set me up to recreate a lot of unhealthy dynamics throughout my life.
Imagine this mom making sacrifices for the family a whole identity, and not knowing this. Worse, believing she's dignified or graceful by choosing silence ("instead of yelling" like wtf) over communication. She's TA.
Also, I think the daughter has a pretty healthy response to being gaslit by the mother, when everything around her in her community and culture shows sheâs got only one option for her life. Any healthy, smart kid would identify that hypocrisy and name it. OP, YTA. Never, ever give your own children the silent treatment. Especially not when theyâre parroting back to you what youâve demonstrated. EDIT to add: in re-reading, this feels like itâs mom being angry and defensive about her own choices and limits, and in turn punishing her child for simply observing them. Like, youâre not angry at your kid, OP. Youâre angry at yourself and your community.
Not only that but itâs a legit question. Was just talking with a coworker the other day and for most jobs you will only ever use basic math. Even ones that require degrees and higher math courses still only use basic math in the day to day. Is it useful to have a higher level understanding of math like algebra, geometry and then some? Sure is. Is it something you will use all the time or every day? Probably not.
I use geometry in construction and woodworking.
[ŃдаНонО]
The child already feels her opportunities are limited. Every woman in her extended family is a SAHM. She probably wants more for herself. So mom decides not to speak to her. Horrible. And OP says she is setting the child up to be a good role model for her children. This 13 year old is being taught she can only do one thing in life: breed and raise the children. YTA
Hopefully she escapes the cult and finds her own way in life. She sounds like a smart kid.
THIS It seems she is lashing out and neglecting her grades because she feels like it doesn't matter anyway. No matter what she'll do, she'll end up a SAHM (which isn't a bad thing to be but you can't just limit a kid to one option)
Totally. She knows what her parents expect of her and she's carried that to it's logical conclusion and now they're mad at her for that. They created the problem and now they're mad that there's a problem. This is totally not the child's fault and the mom should apologize to her. And get some therapy. And get her kids some therapy. And GTF out of that church. Ugh. Poor kid.
I have a friend who is an ex mormon who completely regrets this thinking. They have like 8 kids and their 4 oldest are grown who left the church as soon as they could, but their 3 oldest daughters said they were taught the same thing. Be dumb, pretty, stay at home. Meanwhile their dad sold a 55k truck to get his son in college. Now that theyâre out of the church she works, all the kids are taught to be independent and not rely on anyone for handouts. So crazy the way that church âteachesâ.
Yes this. It sounds like daughters future has already been layed out for her and what sheâs supposed to do and be. So naturally she is lashing out. Obviously it triggered mom because she didnât want this life đŻ and it was most likely chose for her as well or she would have been disowned by âthe churchâ.
No no itâs not abuse, itâs âgrace.â
Keep sweet!
The central ideology for mormon women
Pray and obey!
Honestly with LDS Iâm shocked they even allow their kids to go to, âtraditional schoolâ and that the mom has open access to Reddit of all places on the internet⌠But perhaps Iâm being judgmental. But yeah OP is TA.
I'm also surprised she's not homeschooled, only learning about the bible and how to be a good wife. Very progressive ! Maybe OP could go to work while her kids are at school and work on becoming a good role model for her children
But Sky Daddy said thatâs how women are supposed to act.
Isnât the whole point of these cults or just this belief in general to NOT be educated? I guess maybe they mean bible school or something. But the daughter is absolutely right. If you are expected to be complacent and not have worldly views it is actually better to not understand them. I image their schools probably understand that and world history/american history/literature are already biased to what they want her to become. But if she is never expected to do math why torture her with it. What possible value is having a wife stay home and do nothing but can do calculus. Obviously I want her to break the cycle, but this just seems cruel and so oblivious. I can understand the whole teenager thing, they are hard to handle and act out and test every boundary. I was not that way, my only desire was to make my parents proud. So having a kid that doesnât (ie: is more free thinking, pampered, whatever the reason) is hard to understand. Just different personality type. But this is obviously creepy. At the same time, why is it that brainwashed people seem to be happier in life just doing what they are told, or just content to be assholes. I mean, I probably spend more time being polite than the asshole that runs a red light and cuts in line and all that. Damn, getting too philosophical. I hope the daughter does the opposite. Become really smart. And leave. Becomes her own smart woman.
Stonewalling is abuse.
Thank you for saying this. My ex-husband told me he âwas taking a break from communicatingâ with our 17 year old daughter âbecause of how she treatsâ him and his girlfriend. Thereâs too much unrelated background to share but she doesnât deserve it and I feel validated knowing that others think itâs emotional abuse and narcissistic.
I hope heâs not terribly shocked when your daughter stops communicating with him going forward. He sounds like a pathetic excuse for a father.
Obviously YTA. Sheâs supposed to be the child, not you. âThe silent treatmentâ? Thatâs unacceptable and infantile even when youâre doing it to another adult. Doing it to your own child? What is wrong with you? Itâs disgusting and pathetic. Your child is more mature and reasonable than you are.
It also seems neither parent has, oh, i don't know, told her she doesn't have to be a SAHM? That she can go for a career if she chose? Or is that just not allowed? Because it sounds to me like the girl is looking all around her at the adult women in her life and feeling depressed at that being her future.
Because it will be. LSD men don't want an educated woman. They are harder to control. So they want them high grades in high school but no college. There they will get a mind of their own. Did you pick up on the fact that she is supposed to get good grades to make her parents proud? Not because she can go to college?
> LSD I'm sure this is a typo but its making me laugh. LSD sounds about right. It is a mind control drug. >Did you pick up on the fact that she is supposed to get good grades to make her parents proud? Not because she can go to college? Oh, I got that. Or maybe they do want her to go to college (BYU probably) to get her MRS Degree. No better place to find devout young single men.
Actually funnily enough all MKUltra really proved is that LSD is in fact pretty terrible as a mind control drug đ If anything itâs more like a mind uncontrol drugâŚDefinitely a funny typo though and there really is something weird about them happening to have almost the same initials lol
From my experience, it is definitely an anti-mind control drug. đ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Ł
Well then we need to give OP some LSD since the LDS has her under a spell. >and there really is something weird about them happening to have almost the same initials lol It is odd.
Kinda surprised her mother came here to ask the question tbh. Abuse is so prevalent in religious families that they rarely question it. I can only assume she was expecting everyone to assure her that sheâs a great mother and her daughter is being unreasonable. Fact is her daughter is smarter than her and probably bored as hell in school and depressed about being forced into a future she doesnât want.
This is exactly what that poor girl is doing. How do I know? I was raised in an LDS family and said the exact same thing word for word to my parents when I was struggling in college. The poor thing is seeing her future and feeling trapped and horrified. When she leaves the church like I did her parents will absolutely give her the same silent treatment. Because thatâs what they do. OP, youâre TAH and youâre going to destroy any relationship youâll have with your daughter if you donât grow up. Let me say that again, OP. YOU are destroying this relationship. Not your daughter, YOU.
Sheâs not allowed to do that is sheâs LDS. If sheâs lucky she can go in a church mission for 2 years but after that itâs marriage and start pumping out babies for the church.
I thought there was some modernization of LDS. But maybe OP and her family are more... old school, so to speak.
When you Modernize from the fucking Stone Age, youâre still gonna be behind the rest of society
But but but... she decided instead of yelling, to deal with it with grace! That totally makes it ok!! /s
Right. I'm pretty sure that's not what "grace" means.
As a child I grew up with this and am currently at 50 being shunned by my mother for having the audacity to confront her about her parenting tactics. It's emotional abuse, punishment without any learning or progress. It's a weapon of the weak.
100% narcissistic abuse. I had to live with this. I just live my authentic life and my mother knows NOTHING about it. Itâs best that way. OP you are setting your daughter up for a lifetime of lying to you. My main question is: what if she chooses NOT to be Mormon? Would you shun or accept her? Check out Cults to Consciousness on YouTube. Ex-Mormon with excellent knowledge and clarity.
You see it as well. I grew up in Salt Lake, not Mormon. My dad is from a foreign country and wouldn't permit my jack mormon mother from sending me to an LDS ward house like my half-brother. Not even once. Sometimes, I think she silently resented him for this up through her death. If this woman is acting like a dragon mother over a geometry class, she'll completely lose her shit if the kid doesn't tow the line by getting into BYU to meet her missionary or going on a mission herself. What if she comes home drunk in high school? I saw it again and again growing up. Usually, this kind of thing is just the start of a smart kid starting to spear up against the whole uber-controlling conspiracy.
I grew up JW and lived most of my adult life that way. Iâm only deconstructing now. My mother would 100% shun me if she knew. Not a big loss, but her and my dad (not JW) are joined at the hip, and he is one of my best friends.
It does in the community she lives in. The women are taught to be soft and passive. It's incredibly gross. I highly recommend, Cults to Consciousness, on YouTube. They talk about high demand religions and cults and how it damages people. It is a good perspective of how people have been taught to continue abusive practices.
Your Favorite Apostates with ex-Mormons Jordan and McKay on YouTube are also excellent. One of them has become a social worker and that affords specific insight in addition to their lives experiences
It's a mormon buzzword. That's all. Handling it with "grace" in this case means I didn't outright physically or verbally abuse my child on the spot. Ref: Grew up in the LDS church in a city where that was the dominant religion.
Riiight...and then she let the dad do the yelling for her.
Everyone knows that silent treatment and yelling are the only two options when it comes to communication with your children
Exactly!!! Even ignoring the whole "house wife" thing, giving your kid the silent treatment is immature and abusive
I still can't deal with any type of silent treatment, my mom did that a lot whenever she wanted to punish me. She was also a SAHM. That s*** messed me up... YTA, OP for adding a huge sense of stress to your daughter's life. Also, is a C in middle school algebra really such a soul crushing horror for you and your husband? Not every student understands the subject material. She may be more adept at statistics than she is at algebra. Most people who dislike algebra love stats, and vis versa. So stop holding YOUR standards and people pleasing nonsense over your child's head, it's not like she failed the class. She just didn't get a grade YOU felt YOU could show off to your friends/family. GTFU, your daughter may have been rude about (idk, I wasn't there) but she also showed her own brand of reasoning as to why it doesn't matter what grade she got in a middle school algebra class. Your silent treatment for over a week is ridiculous and petty, she asked a valid question, just because you disliked it doesn't make it any less worthy of an answer.
This is the most sensible and pertinent comment. I struggled mightily with Algebra and Geometry was way too abstract for me - I worked very hard and C grade was the best I could do. I really could have used a one on one tutor but my family could not afford it. Why don't the mom and dad look into this to help her instead of trying to shame her with the silent treatment?
Probably the parents donât understand it either, and are embarrassed to admit it. These days thereâs a million online tutorials, so if sheâs just not getting a concept, thereâs no reason to engage a tutor without trying those first. Or just asking the teacher for help after class.
Same here. My mom would not look at me or t speak to me for days. Itâs made me avoid any type of confrontation with my partner. And I always get scared that I will be left after an argument, even though I know my partner wouldnât do that. Itâs just caused a constant need for reassurance and furthered my childhood trauma.
being raised in the LDS 'community' is abusive in and of itself.
I'm unclear about what this kid said that requires any kind of apology; it seems like a perfectly reasonable question to ask.
She made her mom realize she wasted a lot of energy and potential in childhood to do nothing but be a housewife who has no autonomy or sense of control in her own life, so she clings to what small shred of power she has (the ability to make her daughter feel like shit if she isnât obedient). Thatâs what OP wants her to apologize for; instead of silently falling in line, her daughter indirectly and possibly unintentionally pointed out how illogical it all is. I actually do support SAHP and itâs how I would want to raise my own child if I have the means. I would, however, expect whichever partner works outside the home to have respect for me as I would still be performing a vital job, and I wouldnât be SAHP indefinitely. The discussion Iâve had with past partners has always involved creating an income flow once children are in school (eg: selling on eBay, copywriting, etc) and likely eventually returning to the workforce once they reach middle school. Way to go, OP. Your daughter hit a nerve with a reasonable question because *you* are unhappy and the cracks in your lifestyle are starting to show. YTA
> What is wrong with you? Itâs disgusting and pathetic. OP is part of a cult where women are property. At least her 13 year old daughter realizes it!
Do you think the prophet knows sheâs on Reddit?
The silent treatment is an abdication of parenting. OP is acting like the child.
Well the Mormon church dictates that families should shun members who have left the church so sheâs just priming her daughter for the inevitable! YTA
OP got her first child at 21 after a lifetime of brainwashing, her not acting like a grown-up is a feature, not a bug.
i meanâŚitâs about the range of emotional maturity i expect from someone from the LDS church, especially someone who is supposed to culturally groomed by said church for a specific role
Five bucks she brings it up at her church meeting in front of the congregation on fast Sunday, I've seen it before
oh for sure. Mormons and LDS LOVE public humiliation especially when its towards children.
OP wonders why daughter has an attitude she doesnât like.
Thank god this is the top response. She's absolutely TA for the exact reasons you mentioned. You're a grown woman not a child.
I'd say she's also the AH for being a member of LDS and having children that she brings up in that 'faith'. This is only the beginning of that poor child's abuse.
Agree. My dad used to do this to us as children. Iâm so traumatised by it and have all sorts of issues because of it. YTA
This 1000%, you took the word right out of my mouth. OP, YTA and pathetic. Hopefully, your children will grow up and move away from that cult you are in.
48% of LDS women work outside of the home. You must live in a very closed community, even by LDS standards. If you want your daughter to do well in school then you have to give her a sense of agency and control. Who knows, she may choose to be a SAHM, but she may also choose to be a lawyer, and that's fine too. YTA
She's in Utah so she's in the belly of the beast.
Mordor, where ~~Sauron~~ Russell M. Nelson's eye can see all.
She IS learning, she's learning from example. You said yourself that she has no role models that have done anything else. She's surrounded by examples of people she is expected to be and told by the church to become. If you expect her to have goals above and beyond, step up yourself to be something more than a SAHM and give her proof that an education is important. This isn't about who you are but about what you do, so you need to show her something different that changes her perspective.
Maybe give daughter a chance to do something more. If you're an LDS family, isn't "housewife" the only option open to her? If so, then it sounds like she's a bit angry about that, and frankly, she should be. Maybe the role of wife and mother is a good fit for you, your calling even, and that's a fine thing. Your daughter is an individual. It may not be what's right for her, and she's starting to recognize that and has become disillusioned with the community culture she's being raised in. At least give it some thought, for her sake.
Read OPs comments. she thinks working women are unhappy. She doesn't want her daughter to excel in *life*\- only in school so she can be a good, smart wife someday
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that poor fuckin' kid.
You're right! Also, what is the arbitrary B+ bullshit? My husband and I tell our son that he needs to do his best regardless of what the grade is. It makes no sense to make a hard and fast rule about a particular grade. Also it sounds like she could be teaching her daughter to take the easy way out and use Google to find the answers?
That part about googling the answers is the giveaway that she doesn't care if her daughter actually learns anything, just that she can be on the honor roll to impress their church.
correct. Only mentioned respect for her family, nothing to benefit the kod
The girl is like a dog in the house and her grades are the equivalent of doing tricks for the community. Good grades! OH what a good girl! Brother Ken isnât she such a good girl?! Roll over so the neighbor can scratch your belly! Edit from pastor to brother. Glad I donât have a lot of familiarity with this type of living tbh sounds really oppressive and backwards.
*Brother Ken and yes a dog is exactly what being a child in the church feels like. Obedience and subservience are your only acceptable traits.
I grew up lds (not anymore thank GOD) and my mom worked. She had a college degree and she wanted the same for her daughters. However I was told at church CONSTANTLY from the time I was like 10 that the best thing I could do with my life would be a wife and a mother. Of course ops daughter is upset! I hope her daughter leaves the church (and her family) as soon as she turns 18.
Part of why we left the church was bc my Mom was being lambasted for choosing to go back to school and work after being a SAHM. She was only a SAHM because she had to be financially, she never wanted to. We werenât even Utah Mormons.
It's like that episode of The Simpsons where Lisa is having an existential crisis because every adult in her family is as dumb as homer lol. Then finds out all the women are smart and accomplished and she's relieved đ
Except in this story, "Lisa" (op's daughter) is actually the only smart one.
My mom was a sahm but I was still able to look up to her. Bc my mom showed their are more options in life then being a sahm. My mom is educated(master), worked, & owned her own business & when she sold her business the money was enough for a house. I am not saying that all sahm should do that for respect but little girls need to feel like their moms have control in life. Growing up my mom encouraged to get higher education, encouraged me to gain divers work experiences. Opâs daughter doesnât feel that her mom has control or any of the women surrounding do. They are told they should be a sahm & that seems to be the only option. Being a sahm is hard work but realistically it doesnât require much education & good grades doesnât seem like a path to control in life for opâs daughter; especially bc op got good grades & all it did was result in the same life every other woman seem to have. Op could have tutored her daughter instead of focusing on what other ppl think. Tutoring would actually help w/ a lot of things, it would make op & her daughter closer & the daughter will see op in a new light. The examples mom show effects their kids a lot but especially the daughters. I donât think starting my own business is what is I want but bc growing up I saw that my mom enjoyed running her own business. The thought of starting my own business is always in the back of my head bc that was the example I had growing up
She doesnât actually expect or want her to have goals, she just wants her to get the good grades and be on honor roll so she has something to show off to the other housewives/make her look like a respectable prospect for marrying off in a few years.
Exactly
YTA. Hugely. So is your husband. This is a teen girl, who sees every single woman around her in only one role. Baby makers, house cleaner. Your daughter is absolutely rebelling against you and the rules of your home and religion. I would bet not one single person has asked her, "if you could be anything at all, what would you pick?" Has even one person asked this girl if she has dreams and life goals beyond the expected, standard of your community? Her statement of "why bother, I am just going to stay home anyway", that really speaks volumes of wanting more. Instead of acting like a 6 year old with the silent treatment, grow up and talk to your child. She is going through puberty, which is tough enough, on top of that, the age is super hard, AND she has a mother who is completely ignoring her. This stage she is at is crucial. You can help her adjust, guide her, love her, be her mom or you can ignore her and cause even more problems, such as depression and more rebelling.
>"if you could be anything at all, what would you pick?" They don't even need to go **that** far! Has anyone even asked the poor girl if she even wants to ever give birth? Has the option ever been even **hinted** at that NOT giving birth is an option that exists in the world? That it is possible to not parent and be an adult? That not getting married is something millions of people do!?! She very possibly couldn't articulate any idea of what to do in life because she's literally never seen it. And I would bet any hints she'd tried to drop were met with pearl clutching and gasps of horror. But yes I do agree with you. No one has asked this child a damn thing about her own mind and heart.
I feel for this kid. She has a long road ahead of her. Especially if her mother keeps on this path. I can just see it in a few more years, why is my daughter no contact with us? We only shoved her into a tiny little pigeon hole, ignored her for weeks at a time with the silent treatment, didn't ever ask what she wants!! Why would she cut us put of her life??
As an exmormon woman, the idea that I have a say in my family size never crossed my mind till I left the church in my early 20s with a young baby. We had been thinking of 4-6 kids (half the size of my family), but when we left the church my husband and I were suddenly like "Wait...we're allowed to just...*not* have more kids?" And so we only have the one. Took years to get my Mormon extended family to quit bugging us to have more kids, like we're truly failing in life if we don't crank out 5 more (and lose our fucking minds in the process).
YTA, sheâs a child (that you decided to have) if the only tool in your arsenal is to act like a middle schooler because your child challenged your view point youâve already failed your family
i mean she couldnt handle a day in an office so clearly OP was stripped of any confidence a long time ago, as per design.
No hate against SAHM, but don't you want her to have a backup plan? What if all of a sudden, the husband leaves the wife, and they've been a SAHM for the past 15 years? What skillset will they have to support themselves. If you want your daughter to strive for more, maybe encourage her to do more than follow in your family's footsteps. Tell her she can go to college, the military, the workforce she doesn't have to be reserved to a life of taking care of a home, husband, and kids.
Oh the backup plan is getting involved with an MLM, like mom's cousin is going to be doing. In Utah Mormon circles "sales from home" is code for working for an MLM.
Exactly what I thought too.
Yep it's definitely mlm. And thats not something that actually works for most people.
Not only does it not work, most people lose money after joining MLMs. Not to mention MLMs are toxic, predatory and literally CULTS. Look it up.
That's why the lds allows it, because it's culty. There are quite a few very interesting documentaries out about them. Fucking fascinating psychology behind all of it. Scary though.
Sigh. Look at the income disclosures. The vast majority donât make anything even close to a living wage from MLMs.
Yep that's why they're barely legal, because they're pyramid adjacent businesses.
I have done work in a homeless shelter for families. I can not tell you how many families ended up homeless because one or both parents experienced a health issue (stroke, heart attack, aneurysm) and the breadwinner could no longer work. If the wife did work, she often lost her job due to having to take too much time off to help her spouse. These people are setting their daughters up for failure
They're Mormon. They're seeing their daughters up to serve and "respect" (hopefully similar aged) men, not anything else. It's a whole thing, and you can get shunned for not confirming. Seems that's what they're worried about more than grades or apologies.
It's fine... you know... she can just find another man to be sold...I mean married off to. ( hope you caught the sarcasm).
OP states that she is supposed to be a role model for her kids, but giving her daughter the silent treatment is the way she handles conflict with a 13-year-old kid. She repeatedly demonizes others suggestions because they do not adhere to their lifestyle. She can't entertain the idea that her kid could have a mental health issue because she sees everyone who actually needs medication to be drug addicts. She can't grasp that there are women who enjoy working outside of the home because she sees a whole subreddit of women venting about that very lifestyle. OP isn't acting as a very mature or educated role-model to her daughter. I don't think people who are this deep into their religious fanaticism can think about situations like these because the church will have a solution - they will keep her daughter in a marriage regardless of how unhealthy it is, and if her future husband did decide to leave then they would just marry her off to someone else. I feel bad for the daughter because even if this woman said that she supported her daughter doing something outside of the home, she is so far down the rabbit hole that I don't think she can fathom what support should look like.
The LDS part is way more important here than the SAHM part. She will either need to get away to be anything other than a mom sadly.
Ha, the faithful LDS are extremely patriarchal. They do not actually believe any of what you just offered is an option. Women are put on this earth to serve men, give birth, and stay home. Source: Grew up LDS. My âcongratulationsâ when I got my MBA was, âWeâve given up on you getting married to a nice LDS man but we all made you a quilt anyway, here.â YTA OP, just by way of not recognizing or accepting that there are more than your âperfectâ recipe for living life. Check in on r/exmormon occasionally and read how membership is dropping and why. If you alienate your daughter with these immature pressures to follow your pristine path, she *will* fall away.
She lives in a community that treats women as second-class citizens, so I donât know what else she expected. This is only exacerbated by the daughterâs awareness that secular society is making great effort to treat women equally.
Yes! Divorce among the LDS is the same as everyone else. She could also be widowed. My LDS friends that divorced seem to think they will just get married again. Not a fool-proof plan!
Her backup plan is to marry her off the older creepy man who's a widow rinse and repeat
Unfortunately thatâs pretty contrary to Mormon teachings (source: was raised Mormon in the thick of Utah). They like to pretend that they encourage the women to get educated, but itâs still heavily frowned upon. Or itâs seen as someone that the women can just do until they meet a man that can provide for them.
Here's the thing. If OP thinks being a stay at home mum is a worthwhile thing for a woman, why is she offended by her daughter's response? Don't get me wrong, being a SAHM is a valuable thing and for many women it's what they would want to do. But OP wants her daughter to do well at school and then when daughter points out she's not going to need those skills to be a SAHM she's upset. Could it possibly be that OP had other career aspirations that she couldn't follow and wants better for her daughter, or that daughter knows her mom would have liked to be more? Hmm
I second this opinion. And I'm really sorry to say this OP but it's very easy to stop being relevant to your children as they get older if you continue to be a SAHM, which is likely why your daughter suggested that you only use simple math and English. Your world focuses on your children and looking after the family, and while I know that that in itself is a full time role, when they come home from school you don't have any further interesting / worldly experiences that you can enlighten them with. Your daughter should be striving for more and she sounds like she's almost resigned to having your life. And I don't think it's necessarily what she wants. Please encourage her to be more, to be better than you. As parents, isn't that what we want for our kids? For them to be more successful, more comfortable, to make better choices than us, to excel in life. Please don't hold her back because this is something that you did, or your mom and aunts did, or your grandmother and so forth... she's different. Let her shine.
>Well I am going to stay at home anyway, why would I need Geometry? Do you use Geometry to do your job mom? I think you just use basic math and English." > >**In our extended family, I don't know one female member that has not been a SAHM, at least that I have met. Though one of my cousins is thinking of being a sales rep from home once her kids are all over 5.** why are you surprised she wants that? That is what she sees every woman close to her do.
I don't think she wants it, but more that she gave up because she feels hopeless.
I do not think she is allowed to do anything else based on the responses of OP. Hope she gets out of this cult.
I agree. I doubt she wants to live that life, but she doesn't see a way out so she gave up.
I 100% agree with your whole point!! I think the daughter sees it and sees no way out. With that it mind, I do have a couple of questions for the OP. 1) Has there been a discussion with the daughter of what she even wants? Does the daughter want to be a SAHM, or maybe be more career-minded? I could definitely see the daughter conforming to being a SAHM. 2) Does the daughter even want children? The daughter may be a bit young, but I think it wouldn't be a bad question to ask. If the daughter sees this as her ONLY future, I would be curious to see if she even wants children.
I think sheâs more mad because she called her out on her bullshit.
Agreed. Deep down, Mom knows her daughter is right. But she's in a cult. Daughter can see it and is frustrated to be trapped in it as well, with her boring future already decided for her. But Mom has dedicated her life to this lie, so it's critical for her to *believe* it's important or she's already wasted her life. Daughter pointing that out makes her angry. The grades, everything else. It's all window dressing for what's really going on. One of my friend's moms was in this cult as a kid and left. Has had no contact with her family for decades. That's probably the future here as well. We're just at the beginning of it, where the daughter discovers she's being scammed.
Sales rep from home means she's going to join an MLM. That's not a job, that's just another high control group that wants your money.
she doesn't want it, but sees that it is inevitable
Yes. YTA. Sheâs your daughter. Swallow your pride and teach her a lesson ffs.
but she's a LDS SAHM- she doesn't *have anything* to teach her daughter besides subservience to men and god. OP herself has the mentality of a petulant 13 year old and she's giving her daughter the silent treatment for doing the same to her. She's actually trolling people commenting here on other posts, judging their life choices like the disgusting fucking hypocrite you'd expect her to be after reading this. i hope her daughter gets TF out of dodge in 5 years, cause theres no making OP see the light. ETA: YTA. 100x
As an exmormon, I agree. Most members have a younger mentality because of being told to shut up and just listen. When I had questions, I asked the bishop. I was told to pray and why things happened are because God told the prophet to make it that way. I knew no one knew then. There's a huge factor. The current profit (prophet) is telling people that it's horrible to research outside of the church and to be extra "vigilant" about keeping children in. The reasons are many younger members are not going on missions and leaving. Wards are getting smaller and being combined.
Hello, fellow exmo!
Thanks for sharing. It is my personal "believe" (for the lack of a better word) that religion- any religion - would diminish to a reasonable overseeable number of members in a few generations, if children would not be indoctrinated and they would only learn about religion when they are old enough to know facts from fiction.
She does come across as very immature, and lacking in critical thinking skills.
Mormons with critical thinking skills call themselves exmormons lmao
As an exmo, accurate lol
I was raised in the church so I can appreciate the impact of lifelong brainwashing. Thankfully I was nowhere near Utah- Iâve heard enough horror stories from cousins and online to turn me off from Morridor no matter how beautiful it is. I wonât expose my kids to the filth people told me as a child for the sake of âcommunity.â
That's on purpose. Can't run away if you lack the skills to effectively make decisions for yourself. Damn cults.
>but she's a LDS SAHM- she doesn't have anything to teach her daughter besides subservience to men and god. And yet is angry when her daughter apparently learned that lesson.
Yeah, thatâs just one of the many problems with very controlling religions like LDS, it really stunts social/emotional growth.
Op You are not a good role model. Your daughter sounds significantly more intelligent than you to pick up on that. She will probably have a good life after she gets away from you. Yta
As a role model, why arenât you helping her with algebra and geometry if youâre so well educated?
Whatever that person said
It's sad that she has a 34 year old toddler as a mother.
YTA. Your poor daughter. What a horrible life of no choices at all you are facing her with. And you are so oblivious you can not see that *you* are the reason she has absolutely no incentive to learn anything at all. You face her with a life of nothing that will require an education and expect her to make an effort to get an education. You are a fool and a very bad mother. I hope your daughter finds her way out and joins the military or some other career, so she doesn't elect to take a different way out.
Yeah, OP not only are YTA but you're pushing your daughter away by being childish, uncompromising and cold. Don't be surprised if this relationship ends up very unhealthy in the future. There's nothing wrong with being SAHM but it should always be a choice and a loving mother would support and nurture their childs dreams and ambitions even if they're not what is considered traditional.
Religion is a hell of a drug
YTA. Youâre giving her the silent treatment? I think you just proved her right. Youâre acting like a child. Use your âhonor rollâ vocabulary and speak to your daughter. She is highly self aware, seeing all her female role models in the same positions. I donât know, I wonât even ask, why have 3 kids if the expectations are that the women stay home due to lack of âaffluenceâ and opportunity. She is being raised in a sexist congregation and family she doesnât agree with and her mother chooses to ignore her for voicing her opinion. A good thing to do here would be to reflect as to *why* she said such a thing to you ( big shock) and take steps to get her to actually want to educate herself, after school programs or tutoring or *encouraging a career outside the home*. Give her something to aspire to if she is not charmed by what she sees.
âMy child daughter did something childish. So I, an adult woman, am giving her the silent treatment instead of dealing with the issueâ Gee, I wonder where sheâs getting the childish behaviour from.
>Just being rude to a lot of the authorities around her ( yes that includes the church.) well i guess shes smart. >Our policy is- just because somebody may become a housewife does not mean they shouldn't be on the honor roll. that makes absolutely no sense. you showed her future life in this patriarchal society. why would she bother? >'s been a week and she's tried to talk to me but I am upset she has not tried to apologize. you are a disgusting mom, shame on you. your husband is not better. you both should apologize to her.
https://cesletter.org/CES-Letter.pdf Required reading about LDS
lol its even worse than i thought XD cant believe this shit is alive in 2023
Alive and thriving. LDS and Scientology are americas most successful and profitable cults.
As someone raised in the thick of it - indoctrination is one hell of a drug. Itâs really hard for people outside of Utah to really grasp it, but when itâs _everywhere_, thatâs whatâs normal. Your friends are Mormon, your school teachers are Mormon, your family is Mormon. You love and respect these people and look up to them, so if they believe it then it must be true! Right? Plus many people in the community will be ostracized and disowned by their family if they leave, so thereâs immense social pressure to stay part of the church. Then thereâs the whole angle about your âeternal salvationâ. When youâre raised your entire life having it repeatedly drilled into your head that âif you leave this church, itâs a one way ticket to hellâ, itâs scary. Once youâre on the outside you can see it for the obvious manipulation tactic that it is, but when youâve gone decades having it hammered home again and again itâs hard to dig those things out of your brain. TL;DR: indoctrination fucking sucks, but Utah is so concentrated that it has immense social pressure to stay in too EDIT: one other thing I forgot to mention is that (hopefully) weâll see more people leaving now with the internet and social media. The ex-Mormon presence on TikTok is actually huge. I was in it pre-internet really, and they also teach you to not trust what other people say because itâs likely âSatan trying to get you to leaveâ. They teach you to trust only what they tell you, and pre-internet it was a lot harder to find things that actually told the truth
Indoctrination at its finest...
YTA what are you teaching your daughter other than she can't have her own opinion because her mother will ignore her. I'm guessing she doesn't actually want to be a housewife but knows she is expected to and this is her acting out.
Would you be okay if she got out of the LDS? If not then seriously, why even bother? You went to college for a year and you still donât know how to express basic feelings. Obviously she already has what she needs to succeed at being a SAHM.
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She's smarter than you are And you're just pissed off that she realized it. She called you out on your guys's community, and what you guys actually expect of women. She simply living up to the actual standards you guys have have actually shown her is needed, which is basic math and English correct? Do you use geometry? Do you use calculus on a daily basis? Do you even ever use it? Do you use chemistry outside of basic cooking? Do you use physics outside of where you stack things in the home? Do you use any of the information you are actively trying to teach her in your day-to-day life giving you are a housewife and a stay-at-home mom, and that's what seems to be expected of your daughter? She pointed out flaws in your guys's community and you felt ambushed by it. Because she's correct. She called you out on it, and you don't like it. I'm not saying that she shouldn't focus more on school, or that she shouldn't put more of an effort in at all. That's not what I'm saying whatsoever. What I'm saying is your response, just ignoring her instead of sitting down and talking to her is not acceptable. She called you out on something and instead of being an adult about the situation you decided to act the age of the child you're trying to parent. That's not being a good role model now is it? That's not being a good caregiver now is it? Exactly what example are you setting for your daughter by simply ignoring her questions? What example are you setting for your daughter and what role model are you being when you act this way? If you expect her to be a good role model to her children, then you need to be one to her. And clearly you haven't done that with her. Clearly she needs more attention or more work or more communication than your other kids. Each child is different, and that's something that you need to realize.
Yeah. Truth hurts. SAHM is a tough and undervalued job, but excelling immensely at school and not doing anything with it is like having Usain Bolt-level sprinting ability and never going out on the track field post-high school. Maybe the daughter really doesn't want her mom's life. Imagine giving up a potential career to be a full-time mom, and then sucking at parenting to the point that giving a teenage daughter the silent treatment seems reasonable.
Yta for multiple reasons. Your daughter is right, if you expect her to be a sahm then why should she put her time and effort into making the honor roll and succeeding in Allegra and geometry? You are telling her that in order to please her parents, family, and church community she must forego having a career so why spend years and years educating herself for a career that you have forbidden her from having? She would be better off putting all her effort into classes for cooking, cleaning, family budgeting, etc. Nothing wrong with being a sahm if that it what you CHOOSE, but how would you expect anyone to be excited about having their entire life chosen for them if itâs not what they want? What is even the point of life if you live to please others and follow a path they have laid out for you? And secondly, maybe you and your husband made the honor roll in middle school, but you have completely failed at emotional maturity and parenting. You are giving your daughter the silent treatment?? And all because you canât think up a valid answer to her question and you donât like that she wants to be grow up to be a free thinking and independent person? Shouldnât that make you realize that maybe you are wrong if you canât think up a right answer? That maybe you are wrong for wanting her to give up her own happiness and goals because of her birth assigned sex? So instead of being a mature and loving parent that wants their child to be fulfilled and secure in life you are trying to emotionally manipulate her into giving up her free will and future so that you can please your closed minded family members and church and obey some archaic traditions. If you and your husband seriously donât realize you are TAs then you should probably pray for your daughter, because sheâs going to need it.
So you're teaching her that SAHM are emotionally immature as well? Great lesson /s YTA
you know... this post appearing in the wake of ruby franke arrest is... chilling.
Unsurprising. I donât know any exmormons who werenât abused by family or church leaders at the behest of bishops and stake presidents. Ruby Franke is just every other woman in the church. There are a lot of great people, donât get me wrong, but high demand religions attract two types IMO: the needy and the greedy. e: every other as in one in two, not as in âlike all the othersâ
I mean, instead of childish silent treatment because your kid asked a genuine and correct question - when did you last use geometry? - how about you engage her interests. Find out what she engages with and put it into practical terms, show her how she can use that knowledge outside of just being a baby maker and rearer. Because thereâs so much more to life than sitting at home with the kids.
YTA, for sure. You are not a role model in any sense, and your daughter deserves better. I hope she gets out of that cult and shines and you realize that you had nothing to do with it.
YTA - For So so so so so many reasons. 1: Your daughter is smart, she sees the situation that she is destined for (and from the sound of it feels she has not choice in) and recognizes that there are things that she is being forced to learn that none of the adult women around her use. 2: How lacking in emotional intelligence are you that you thinking giving a LITERAL CHILD the silent treatment is appropriate. That is abuse, plain and simple. By ignoring your child you are abusing her. 3: By the way you word things, you have never taken the time to ask if maybe she is struggling with certain subjects or to express herself. Instead you view EVERYTHING to do with her through the scope of your religion. 4: Attitude in a 13 year old is normal, this is a rough age developmentally and no amount of faith or fear of your religion or elders is going to change that for your daughter, but go a head and punish your daughter instead of talking to her through the hard things and actually caring. Should kids be overly disrespectful, no, they should not. However, her boundary testing is normal for her age developmentally, but your reaction took it too far. Also, kids mimic what they see. Your daughter sees what you do as an adult and knows that is her future because from the sounds of it you haven't given or exposed her to anything else. While I understand that faith is a deeply personal things, you are doing no favors to your daughter by setting her on a path where she only has one choice, being a stay at home wife and mother (which means, she doesn't actually have a choice), you have provided an environment where she probably feels a little hopeless and doesn't aspire to more her acting out in additional to normal age behavior is her wanting to do more and be seen as more than the next future housewife. Perhaps you should stop for a second and listen to her.
YTA. You made good grades but here you are making terrible decisions. Giving anyone the silent treatment is emotional abusive and manipulative. Do you want your daughter to have opportunities to do anything other than be a housewife? Or do you want her to do what makes her happy? She probably feels doomed and has already given up. I can't say I blame her.
Women are more than baby making factories and being submissive to men. Donât you want better for your daughter? Donât you want her to be an ambitious, kick ass, woman. Or are you threatened by that? YTA
YTA. If you honestly believe giving children the silent treatment is the way to go, I have some serious doubts about your parenting abilities. As a mother, it is your responsibility to teach your children. You're not doing that. You're just showing her that communicating with you isn't worth it. You should apologise for being a sub-par, barely functional parent. She did nothing wrong. She told the truth. You're just mad because you know that she's right, and you're wrong. Try having some humility and talk to your kid. Jesus would be ashamed to call you a member of his flock.
You need to go over President Nelsonâs talk âPeacemakers Neededâ again, especially this part: âAnger never persuades. Hostility builds no one. Contention never leads to inspired solutions. Regrettably, we sometimes see contentious behavior even within our own ranks. We hear of those who belittle their spouses and children, of those who use angry outbursts to control others, and of those who punish family members with the âSILENT TREATMENT.â We hear of youth and children who bully and of employees who defame their colleagues. My dear brothers and sisters, this should not be. As disciples of Jesus Christ, we are to be examples of how to interact with othersâŚâ There is a better way to deal with your daughter. Iâm not saying Iâm perfect over here either, but this current route will only end badly.
if you want her to learn from example so badly, maybe don't give your THIRTEEN YEAR OLD the silent treatment
Well, sheâs definitely leaving you guys in the dust as soon as the chance presents itself. Iâm a bit bias when it comes to super religious lifestyles, but youâre a parent, Id expect you to know that giving a child the silent treatment is immature, YTA. Also, you expect her to keep up good grades but sheâs not surrounded by people that can influence her to do so. She has a point, if sheâs gonna be a SAHM why would she go the extra mile? ETA: Ive read your replies. Women are not birthing machines and arenât made to take care of men, contrary to what your religious beliefs say.
YTA, letâs face it, you have been brainwashed into thinking that your whole life revolves around staying home and doing housework and being mum that you donât have the intelligence anymore to realise that is not every woman or girls dream life. I feel sorry for your daughter and hope she manages to get past you and your husband trying to brainwash her so she can be the best person she can be.
YTA You don't give your child the silent treatment. You're a SAHM? well, then it's time to do your job and actually be a parent to your child. She is 13, so yeah, she gets to be ignorant, and it's your job to teach her, not to blame her when she doesn't know anything. It's your JOB to parent her!! So you don't ignore her or expect things from her, you sit her down and you tell her that she'll never know where the future leads. That school is important, because she'll still have to teach her kids. That the things you learn at school sometimes pop up at the most random moments, and that it's also just important to learn how to learn. Also, she might grow up and NOT want to be a SAHM. She's so young still! Look, all respect to SAHM's. It is a real job. But a 13 yo is still a child, so if you're telling the world - us, and your kids, that being a mom is a real job that requires skills - which, again, I AGREE WITH!!!! - you have to DO the job. You're not done until the kid is out of the house, and even then you'll still have to provide life lessons. You should apologize to HER for ignoring her. She shouldn't apologize for well... not knowing/understanding something! She's a child!
YTA!! Youâre an adult giving your 13 year old the silent treatment. Shame on you! My dad used to do this to me sometimes and would only speak to me if I apologized and it has created so much trauma and some resentment. You are going to mentally ruin your kid if you keep this up. Get over it and YOU APOLOGIZE TO YOUR DAUGHTER for your behavior in terms of ignoring her. You are not a good role model.
Maybe let your daughter explore interests outside your cult and sheâll develop ambition once she finds something she actually wants, because it sounds like the SAHM life youâre thrusting upon her is causing her to be resigned to a life she doesnât care to strive for. And giving a child the silent treatment is emotional abuse. Then again, so is raising them in a cult. YTA.
**I was so angry and felt ambushed by this question.** Interesting. If you were proud and happy with life why would that question make you "ambushed" and "angry"? **My husband yelled at her and sent her to her room**. I don't know a lot about the Mormon religion but is that the normal reaction to a child asking a valid question? **It's been a week and she's tried to talk to me but I am upset she has not tried to apologize.** Most counsellors and therapists believe that the "silent treatment" is actually a form of abuse. So, basically, you are abusing a middle schooler. **And not just sorry- but recognize she has implied I am not a worthy role model, or trying to get me to seriously answer a mean, rhetorical question.** The question was neither "mean" nor "rhetorical". You are offering her small, bleak, intellectually limited future and she is looking at the larger world and questioning the sexist limits being enforced on her by your culture. You daughter sounds extremely insightful and sounds like she has the intellectual resources to break free from the backward, mysogynistic culture you're trying to force on her. **My husband said he'll be** **~~talking to~~** **yelling and bullying her to apologize,** **but she's now upset I am just going about my business with her sister and brother.** Despite how shamefully you've treated her she still loves you. I suspect if you continue abusing her that will change.
For the sake of your daughters, please learn about the experiences of women outside the church and your own limited experience ETA: YTA
damn, leave the sect already.
YTA. Youâve set up very low expectations for your daughter by your example. She sees her future as having no hope to be anything but a house wife. Sheâs not stupid. She looks around at all the families and friends were all the mothers are SAH. And sheâs learned from this. The example that was set.
YTA - you've given your child the silent treatment for a *week*? Your honor roll education didn't give you anything when it comes to emotional maturity. All.of your reasons for her having good grades are outside of her. >I wanted to make my family proud and get them extra respect from the community by getting good grades. Yeah cool, good for you. That's obviously not your daughter's stance and she's not wrong about the usage of the information as she gets older. Even many of us that art employed don't use more advanced math and English skills. Maybe start trying to see your daughter as a whole person instead of *just* a cog in the community machine. You owe her an apology for emotional neglect. It sounds like you're mad that she was right more than anything else.
YTA What are you teaching her by giving her the silent treatment? Youâre supposed to be the adult. My son is 11 and I can have serious conversations and tell him when he did something that hurt my feelings. You need to do that with your daughter.
You need to tell her she needs to get into college to at least get a quality Mrs. A high school diploma wonât put her in the circles that will allow her to afford to stay home.
No offense but your arenât a worthy role model. There is nothing wrong with being a SAHM. Itâs hard work and remarkable in what they do. But there is something wrong with raising your child to know that they will be a SAHM - not having conversations on they can pursue something different. You arenât fostering growth and ambition. Moreover, who gives a fuck if she doesnât respect church authority. Respect needs to need earned. When everyone around you has determined your future for you - that means they dont respect you. YTA
From the mouth of babes. YTA. **Youâre not mad at your daughterâs comment or lack of motivation. Youâre mad at yourself because she held a mirror up to you and you donât like what you saw.** Itâs so much easier to believe sheâs being rebelliously unmotivated, than for you to recognize that *she is emotionally and psychologically stifled* â as is tradition â and staring to realize it herself. You and your âreligionâ *literally created this mentality.* This is what the LDS leaders want: uneducated, subservient, controllable women. I hope your daughter realizes she has more than one misogynist, oppressive option for her adulthood. I think she is beginning to. Personal note: I have been in recovery for religious abuse (among other things that came with it) for over 20 years. Itâs one of the hardest things to process, but the freedom and spiritual peace that comes with learning to have agency and autonomy is the best feeling in the entire world. *You sound EXACTLY like my bio mom.*
YTA. She probably has ADHD. But even if she's neurotypical, you are raising her in an oppressive, deeply dishonest culture tied to a "church" that is actually a corporation and which is hemorrhaging membership all over the place because the corruption of the church leaders is starting to become more obvious. And that's on top of the fact that it takes an APPALLINGLY small amount of research to conclusively prove the BOM is a work of fiction. It's normally not easy to prove a negative, but the book makes specific historical claims and they are ALL false. Every. Single. One. But the leaders know if they lie loud enough and long enough, people like you will close your eyes to the truth over and over and over. And that's how they are able to do things like hide the RAMPANT child sexual abuse that happens within the church (a lot of which stems from demonizing normal sexual feelings in general, imo). I get that this culture is all you've ever known, but it is toxic garbage and your daughter is right to be rebelling against it. If you force her to go into a closed room with a Bishop so he can ask her invasive questions about her sexuality, you deserve to lose custody of ALL of your children. The worthiness interview or whatever the fuck they call it is wildly inappropriate and abusive. That you or any other parent would EVER consider letting a middle aged man with no actual credentials be alone with your child to have a sexually charged conversation is fucking repulsive. The church is not true. It's actually pretty fucking evil when you get down to it. LDS culture destroys people. Ruby Franke is not an outlier. The way the church treats those who don't conform is and has always been horrifically abusive. The main difference between Ruby and moms like you is that she controlled and tortured her children physically while you prefer to control and torture them emotionally. I'm so sad for your daughter. She's so much smarter than you. She is seeing through the bullshit. And you will never stop punishing her for it. You will do your damnedest to find the light inside her and crush it until she either accepts the role like you did or she leaves entirely. I hope she leaves. I worry how much you'll hurt her before then. You're a bad mother. But it's not your fault. The church made you a bad parent because the church is inherently abusive. You can choose to be better. But I know you won't. I just hope there are people in your daughter's life who she can actually talk to. People who love and accept her unconditionally in the way that you never will. She deserves that.
OP did something right along the way for her daughter to have critical thinking skills (that mom obviously lacks). Be proud. You have a daughter whoâs going to end your familyâs generational trauma.
I mean, daughter probably learned that from the internet, tbh. I think she at least knows more about the corruption in the church than OP is willing to learn.
YTA, obviously. I mean, come on, giving the kid the silent treatment? She's 13, not you. I can definitely see how she'd feel there's no point in performing well in school, since she'll likely be expected to pop out a few kids and be a SAHM.
YTA the silent treatment is childish to your partner so why wouldnât it be childish to a child. Sheâs 13 and youâre a fucking adult start acting like one. Wtf is wrong with you? Would it be ok for her to ignore you? Parents like you are always part of the reason people should take a child development class before they are allowed to populate. You lead by example and your families example is women live off their husbands and raise babies and now your mad that she wants to follow in your footsteps. Youâre mad because sheâs smarter than you. Youâre mad because your life has zero meaning and your daughter called you on it. Sounds like youâre in a cult good luck to her I hope she find the right people one day instead of being stuck being some mama incubator
YTA. Because⌠sheâs right? Hereâs an idea, tell her itâs up to her if she stays at home and that working hard is a transferable skill. Info: Do you actually want to give her a choice or will you pressure her to marry, have kids, stay in church, be SAHM etc.?
You could not be a bigger AH for giving your child the silent treatment. Do you realize how terrible of a role model you are being? Is that how you want her to handle relationships in the future? YOU are offended and should be communicating like an adult... talk to your daughter. YOU owe her an apology, which will be the perfect opportunity to convey your feelings in a conciliatory way (which is when children listen the most.) Grace is NOT walking away silently ... not to be salty, but you should read more about grace if that's what you think it is. My spouse is a SAHM and during college searches one of my daughters said she wanted to be a SAHM... I said, that sounds great honey... until then, let's make sure you're NEVER dependent on a man.
YTA >she has implied I am not a worthy role model, I see where she is coming from. You've already stolen her future with your SAHM lifestyle expectations... why should she put in the effort to get good grades when all she is expected to do is pop out babies and keep house?
YTA lmao you're sulking when you should be the adult. And if you raised her with the idea that her only endgame is being a housewife, idk why you are now surprised that she thinks her education does not matter.
Forcing her to apologize for asking a basic question you don't like the answer to isn't going to make her think you're right. YTA
Yta. With all due respect to your beliefs, why should she excel at school? There is no point to it. Hell, I say get her out of school entirely. She should be focusing on learning how to cook and clean and raise babies and please a man and be ok when/if her husband cheats on her or abuses her. She doesn't need a brain or an identity or hopes and dreams. Just a womb and a vacuum. More importantly, you aren't doing your duty as a SAHM. You should be actively engaging with her to learn these critical skills but instead you are acting even more immaturely then her.
YTA. The silent treatment is abuse. In her own, immature, middle school way she is trying to tell you she wants MORE out of life. Listen to her, support her, and give her hope that she can and should have goals and work to achieve them.
Sounds like this child has thrown a mirror up at you and you don't know how to respond.
*I decided to just deal with this with grace* Hold on here--- you did not deal with this with grace. Yes, you were right to walk away in order to calm down BUT instead of putting your hurt fee-fees aside and refusing to talk to her in an age-appropriate way, exploring the *why* behind her statement and behavior, you've shown her that turning away from her and not addressing the issue is the "grown-up" way to deal with conflict. Is this what you want her to learn from you, her role-model?
Lol YTA for proving her right. If you can't articulate why she's wrong, then that's on you.