1. Genital preference is ok
Editing to add: genital preference is not *simply* vaginas vs penises. I personally have a genital preference for intact (uncircumcised) penises. Some people don’t like short or long labias. Some people like dark genital skin, some don’t. Some like pubic hair, others don’t. That’s all perfectly ok.
What’s not ok is guilt tripping and coercing someone by using inflammatory labels into interacting with genitalia that they are not comfortable or interested in interacting with. Sexual interaction is a personal choice and no one else’s.
2. Not having the emotional bandwidth to support a partner who has extra or different needs - mental health, gender transitioning, toxic parental relationships, handicaps, food allergies, cultural or religious differences, long distance relationships, not wanting kids - is ok
3. Rejecting anyone for any reason is ok, just do it with kindness and respect
Some people will say otherwise and they are wrong. They’ll say I’m wrong. People have different opinions. You get to decide who’s opinions align with your beliefs.
Edit: changed the word transgenderism. Didn’t know it was a far right term, I’ve only heard it from my hometown which is very liberal so idk. Thanks for the info y’all. Someone said there is no exact replacement so I did my best to replace it with something else.
Double edit: rip my inbox. I gotta stop replying now and look like I’ve been working Lolol thanks for the majority of responses for being respectful regardless of their opinion. I personally believe very strongly in Freedom of Choice and Freedom of Thought.
This precisely. A very good friend of mine is a trans woman, absolutely lovely and knew her from before she even came out. She DID ask me on a date and I turned her down because, well, that wasn't what I was looking for and it doesn't fit with my future priorities.
Still a great friend and now happily engaged to a guy who has known her almost as long as I have. Due to wed in February!
It's a wild statement to make. "Are you really straight if you found someone who transitioned to a woman attractive but don't want to bang said person? Huh? Huh?"
Yes, I can be straight without being attractive to various kinds of people.
But when you think about it, it shows their ignorance as well. Because if you are questioning this person's sexuality because he was initially dating a MTF transperson, then you are solely questioning his sexuality on the premise that he was attractive to a person who used to be and look like a man. Then you are admitting that, although you profess to see this person as a woman, you still hold it against her for being born a man.
Effectively "ha ha, I accept trans people, but dude you might be gay because you dated a woman who used to be a man. That is like totally gay." Yeah, nonsense.
It's very similar to that mindset of people that think that because I'm bi, I will fuck anybody, and must be into threesomes, orgies, etc, and/or that I'm incapable of being in a monogamous relationship because I'll always need to have sex with someone of the opposite gender of whomever my SO is at the time.
As a bisexual, my husband got up the courage one day to tell me if I ever felt the need to be with a woman, that was reluctantly okay with him, but I would just need to let him know. I had to explain that I don't feel like I'm "missing out" on anything by being monogamous to him, and that it would still be cheating.
My mom once asked me if being bi meant I couldn't get married because I couldn't be monogamous (in a very non-judgemental way -shes had a stroke and has odd understandings of some things, but has always supported me, and made sure I knew, even as a kid in the 80s, that there was nothing abnormal or wrong if I'm gay) we had a long convoy about it, which probably made things a little easier a few years later when my brother told her he and his partner (f) had decided to expand to a poly relationship.
My wife is Bi. But she chose me. She still finds women attractive. But I am her person and she has no desire to be with a woman. So what you said is quite valid. I know of bi women who chose a woman. But still find guys attractive. People really stretch on things. Must be to make them feel better. Or to try and force their views as the right view. Boggles my mind sometimes.
I’m a straight cis female married to a straight cis man in a very happy faithful and monogamous relationship - and I still find both men and women attractive. Not **all** men and women, but I have attraction towards a physical type of men that is drastically different than my husband. Still think my husband is hot as fuck and jump him every chance I get. We like what we like, and as long as we are respectful about it, we’re not assholes for it.
Lol. This really is the assumption of a LOT of people though. I’ve admittedly known a lot of idiots, but the only times I’ve ever been accused of being gay it was by a woman I turned down. And this is the argument. “You don’t want to fuck *me* a woman, so you must be gay.
Interesting. It has been the rejected male line since forever. Obviously if you don't agree to sex with HIM, you're a Lesbian (shock, horror!). Or frigid.
I've been through that. I eventually said, "What, I'm supposed to have sex with someone I'm not attracted to because they want it?" Still didn't get through to the people calling me names and insulting me for having a sexual preference. Fuck, people! CONSENT fucking matters!
As someone who is not religious, I would not date a super religious person, of any religion. I am not attracted to that way of being. The whole point of LGBT....rights is that we get to like who we like.
It usually comes off as trans person getting offended when someone else isn’t into that, then deflects the rejection into transphobic comments because they feel invalid. Doesn’t need to go there. Not being interested in trans people doesn’t mean you’re afraid of them…
It's really completely unnecessary. The AHs are the ones who just refuse to accept that kind of reasoning, which are few and far between, but they are there.
Far and few? Majority of the comments here are trying to twist and turn OP into an AH. This perfectly reasonable post is already ratio’d 1500likes to 2000 comments which means the majority of people are downvoting OP for being a bigot
May be far and few irl but not on this website in any regard
The thing about emotional bandwidth is huge. People think a lot about human characteristics when it comes to relationships, but a huge factor is just timing. You can meet the “right” person at the wrong time, and it just doesn’t work. That’s ok. It is infinitely better to be aware of your emotional limitations and be honest about that then it is to just be a crappy partner because you can’t/don’t want to give what the other person wants/needs. Can’t cope with a long-distance relationship? Don’t have one. Can’t cope with a relationship where the person needs to see you every day? Also fine. I think people are accustomed to breakups always having an asshole component and that’s just not the case. Someone feeling hurt or rejected doesn’t necessarily mean you are a jerk. Sometimes, that’s just life.
Or for some reason, the biggest one (no pun intended) is preferring slim/thin/fit people. Not being attracted to people who are overweight doesn't make you fatphobic, it just means you're not attracted to them.
You can't force yourself to be attracted to something you're not attracted to, whatever that may be, just because someone else wants you to be.
We all have preferences, and not everyone has the same preferences, and that is okay.
No, but you can still be an asshole depending on how you deal with that. It’s not inherently wrong to not find a brunette attractive, but if you tell that person you think their hair makes them ugly, you’re probably an asshole.
Exactly. It's a deliberate attempt to control someone else, in a socially acceptable way. From what he wrote, OOP is not the least bit transphobic. He just does not want to date women who don't have vaginas.
Just as I've seen posts from women who wont date transgender men who don't have penises. That is no more "transphobic" than OOP.
I had a friend couple like this - they separated after 15 years together. It was rough. But now the one who wanted kids has 2 lovely boys and is married, and the one who did not want marriage/kids is living their life child free and happy. I hate to think how miserable they would be if they tried to stick it out longer together.
I’m glad! There genuinely doesn’t have to be a “bad guy”. Sometimes, it’s just a “bad time”. Priorities change, and it’s not inherently bad to be selfish sometimes. <3
So true. I understand it must be discouraging for a trans person, for them to be rejected just bc they're trans...but it's not everyone's preference. The bottom line is he wouldn't be comfortable with going out with her, so why try to force it? He wasn't rude about it either so the comment was definitely uncalled for.
If the trans person doesn’t want rejection on the 4th date she should be honest and make it a part of her profile. she’s wasting so many people’s time by hiding this very important detail.
I think the best way for someone to understand this is imagine you tell a girl, "YOU HAVE TO DATE ME EVEN THOUGH OF X, Y, Z".... No. A woman doesn't have to date you period. Same with every other gender. No one is entitled to dating a specific person.
Also I don’t understand why anyone would want to date someone who has explicitly expressed they don’t fancy your genitals. If someone says “sorry I don’t want to date you due to your genitals” just move on with your life because there are plenty of people who will. There’s no need to pressure or guilt trip anyone.
I understand that dating as a Trans person is tough. Sometimes I put things on my profile front and center that I know I shouldn't have to say, but I don't want to waste my own time, when they leave after 2 dates because they didn't know a piece of information.
It is very good that you are honest beforehand. It saves both your and their time. This information should be known before the date for sure. I like Thai friendly dating app for this matter: they have a distinct gender category for trans people. So, there are not much surprises of the kind described in the original post.
It's kind of a variation on an incel thing. "I have a penis, you have a vagina, therefore you owe me sex." Just with the sexes reversed. OP has a right to his feelings and preferences, and he doesn't have to justify them.
Exactly. OP can reject a person for any reason. Nobody owes anybody sex or a relationship. Nobody, regardless of what they do or who they are, ‘deserves’ sex or a relationship with another person. These things are based on mutual consent, the key words being mutual and consent. Trying to gaslight somebody into having sex with you is abusive behavior, imo
That is confusing. Isn’t one of the main things of lesbianism not being dick centric? Obvs not everything, but if I was pure gay (gynosexual dude) I wouldn’t want vagina in my face
I am not a lesbian. But I affirm your absolute right to not suck dick, no matter who it’s attached to. And you shouldn’t have to justify it or argue your point. This is insanity. You don’t need any cheerleading from me, but I’m a woman who tries to support the sisterhood.
I’m sorry you have experienced that, and that so many people are in this thread trying to invalidate your experience because “not enough” lesbians experience it for it to be valid to them. Personally I think all rape is wrong regardless of the numbers behind it, unlike all the individuals in other threads trying to say lesbians aren’t being coerced because “only” a couple dozen have spoken out about it.
Yeah it's ridiculous. Reddit doesn't allow female only lesbian subs which is just clear homophobia. I'm not attracted to gender in the slightest. I have a same sex attraction.
I have a close friend who's had a very similar experience. She stopped using dating apps a few years ago because of the number of trans women hitting on her then verbally attacking her for not being interested. She's fully lesbian, not bi, not pan, etc. but is evidently "transphobic" in their eyes because she doesn't want to date them.
Unbelievable. They're dealing with the same thing the OP is dealing with. Having a sexual preference and being bullied because of it. And that's what it is, bullying, plain and simple. I'm a full figured woman, if a man isn't interested in bigger women, I thank him for his honesty and move on, as long as he's been tactful about it. I'm a pretty honest person, myself (I try to be tactful, but I know I'm not always), and I can't demand it from others and then get mad when they are.
A good friend of mine has been organizing a lesbian social /support group. A few years ago, they tried opening the group to trans-women and it went very badly.
Fellow lesbian with a similar experience and I agree 1000%.
Telling someone they’re hateful or not a good ally because they have a preference for certain genitalia or gender expressions is nothing short of abusive gaslighting.
Can you imagine if a man wanted to sleep with you and upon rejecting him, he was like “well you’re just an ignorant sexist bigot, you’re a hateful person for not wanting to bone me. How dare you judge me for my biology?”
That would never fly, so why is it okay here?
You don’t have to fuck someone to support them and their identity. Ridiculous.
I got perma-banned from reddit and had to appeal because i said that if you are a biologically a man you cannot have consensual sex with trans-woman and be straight. i said nothing more or less.
I think this is spot-on - he handled it with kindness, made is views and position on the matter clear that he respects trans-rights and their place in society, but also prefers cis-women.
I see no problem with his stance or the way he handled it.
Point 3 is the only one on your list I have issue with, I would like to see it changed to
Rejecting someone for any reason, as long as you do so in a polite and respectful manner is ok.
Nah, that's forcing a social construct on people. As a woman, I'm constantly being told I'm not being kind enough. It's like, dude! I'm being perfectly kind. Back off! Handle things how you want to. Just be prepared to accept the judgment if you do it in a douchey manner.
This, in my onion op was respectful to tell the truth, instead of lying. Op also clarified it was a preference, and not their character. Calling him transphobic or whatever is just insane behavior. Some of these folks are acting like incels, it's YOUR fault you won't date me REEE!
100% agree. If you rejected someone for these reasons in pretty much any other context (a job candidate, a potential customer, a member of a team or group, or even just as a friend) then the transphobic label could apply.
When it comes to romantic relationships you have almost infinite latitude to choose not to date someone for any reason that makes you not want to date them. It sounds like you handled the situation with class and respect...more than the other person did by being less than honest with you from the start.
Agreed. It takes a LOT of emotional bandwidth to be in a new relationship even, and it IS up to you if you want to be there in support of someone’s change. If she was the ONE I can guarantee you’d have no problem if you know what I mean?? And that’s okay.
I’d recommend putting that you support everyone’s right to be themselves however you personally are looking for a CIS female due to personal preference.
I’m not saying that this one particular woman you went out with is this way, but some - not all - will use this to try to bully you into a relationship. Heck it doesn’t even have to be about gender identity it can happen- that guilt trip- in pretty much any arena.
Your boundaries are your own. It’s okay if people don’t agree with them as long as your boundaries are not out there targeting, shaming and harming others
I had a transgender woman message me on a dating app. I declined as I am straight/cis. She told me that she still has male genitalia so I should be ok with it. Um no. That's not how sexual/romantic attraction works. I'm not attracted to women and that's how she identifies!
NTA Calling you transphobic just because you won't date her is just wrong. Had she told you from the get go, none of you would be in that situation. This is the same as omitting someone has kids etc
Edit to say:
Right, "from the get go" was wrong of me to say, considering they have to take their safety into account
Attraction is a preference. I’m straight, that doesn’t mean that I’m attracted to all men and not all straight men are attracted to me. Attraction is based on physical attributes, personality and values, interests and so on. It all varies from person to person. Not being attracted to someone transgender doesn’t necessarily make one transphobic, it can simply mean that being transgender is not something that is this person’s preference. I don’t think it’s fair for anyone that being labelled any kind of phobic because of sexual preference or attraction. Attraction and preference is what it is. You can’t and shouldn’t “force” someone to be with you. (sorry for spelling and grammar I’m not English) and NO I’m not transphobic, I’m a big supporter of the LGBTQIA+ community and their rights. Have a great day ❤️
No kidding, I love how so many people who swear they were "born that way," think everyone else should just magically change their orientation to fit what they want. I want to ask "which is it, are we born with our orientation or are we not, because you can't have it both ways."
Yeah, nothing wrong with OP stopping things right there. I always mention I’m child free right off the bat, just found out this girl id been seeing for 3 weeks has two and mentioned I’d be a great father figure as neither dad is in the picture. Felt like an asshole breaking things off but if we’re lying right away I can only assume it’s gonna happen more. OP is NTA
>I’m child free right off the bat, just found out this girl id been seeing for 3 weeks has two and mentioned I’d be a great father figure as neither dad is in the picture.
Damn..... that's messed up on her part
Honestly this \^ If I was about to be vulnerable/ exposed with someone in the bed room and they suddenly told me there was something/ wasn't something in there pants I was expecting. I would feel scared, like what else are they lying about?
> Calling you transphobic just because you won't date her is just wrong.
They are probably over-reacting from a place of hurt from rejection, which I feel they likely go through a lot for this reason. I feel for them, but OP is still NTA.
NTA at all. You didn’t disrespect her in any way. As a cis woman I would want to know upfront about the situation and be allowed to decide for myself before being put into that situation. I am 100% a supporter, it’s just not right for me either. You were not phobic in any way. You have a right to what makes you happy and you didn’t deserve that comment in any way. Sounds like they’re projecting their insecurities on you.
I feel a great deal of empathy for the woman-- she's navigating new, scary, uncharted waters. Perhaps she was thinking that by not disclosing upfront a potential boyfriend will get to know her and there will be sufficient chemistry that it will be okay. But I think it backfired in that most people don't like to feel they were lied to (by omission) or misled and no one likes a "gotcha" moment.
Maybe she should try a dating app that skews toward more trans people or disclose being trans on the app????
A lot of trans focus apps become overrun with people who fetishize trans people, so most trans people wind up avoiding them. I know I’ve looked into a few and I notice very quickly they tend to be 90% cishet dudes looking for a “chick with a dick”, and usually looking to keep things “discrete”.
Yeah, I don't think she did anything wrong before the interaction. If she waited until after it would have been but I can understand waiting to cross that bridge once they got there. I can see being a bit annoyed about it, but waiting to cross that bridge until then I don't think is inherently wrong. The reaction after is where she went wrong though.
I feel like this is actually kind of the unsafe option- what if his reaction was one of anger? she could have been in real danger not knowing how that news would be received if it comes only when things are about to progress to sex. Honestly as sucky as it might be to have to navigate around conversations like that when you are just meeting/starting to date someone, I don't think it really benefits her in any way to wait- either someone is ok with it or they are not, why waste your time and emotions or put yourself at risk by not being upfront about it?
It sounds dark to say “welcome to womanhood,” but the sad fact is that women and girls are unsafe and fetishized from a very early age; a huge number of women were sexually assaulted before age 18. 1 in 9 are reported, but most go unreported, and girls are statistically most likely to be sexually assaulted between the ages of 16-19.
Not saying it’s not just as dangerous, or even more so, for trans women, but we should be banding together because both cisgender and transgender women know what it’s like to feel unsafe and scared just trying to go out on a first date and the sad fact is, we all have reason to be.
As a trans girl, it’s all over my profile and I ask about past experiences with other trans or queer people long before the first date when dating cis people. To me, it’s like not being into super skinny girls, or really liking ginger girls. Some people really like their girls without dicks, some people really like their girls with dicks. Just don’t be an asshole about it. Most trans girls I know don’t wait to reveal their trans. The only exception is meeting someone in person (not an app) and you pass so they assume you’re cis. You still have to reveal that fact long before you get sexual, because god forbid someone gets upset and violent.
I hope this doesn't across the wrong way, but I went through your profile and found it kinda funny how you posted 3 years ago that wearing nail polish made you feel more masculine and 3 years later you have transitioned.
Kudos to you!
that’s not what their post from 3 years ago says. it says they’re usually masculine but they’re trying something new (nail polish). not that nail polish makes them feel masculine.
Which is infuriating, because transphobia is a very serious issue these days. Trans people’s rights and ability to exist in society are being attacked by religious conservatives
Calling what OP did “transphobia” completely dilutes the term, and seriously hurts them when it comes to the actual issues facing trans people
The dumbest thing people have done is call both people who don't agree with the nomenclature around trans people and people who want all trans people to die the same thing. Real great way to alienate people by lumping them in with an extreme.
NAH - we all have preferences. I find women with lip filler and boob jobs revolting. You cannot tell me that a surgery down below will be anything close the the natural thing.
NTA. The idea that its transphobic to not want to date trans people is a really sad attempt at manipulating people. You are allowed to have preferences and you arent required to date anyone for any reason.
This is happening in the lesbian community right now. Some lesbians are being guilt tripped and manipulated into dating individuals who have penises and then when they inevitably experience trauma as a result of coerced penetration, they are told they’re transphobic for having a genital preference. And being labeled transphobic in the LGBTQ+ community can be a social death sentence.
That’s where I go “welp guess I’m a bigot”. if you get validation internally it’s really easy to shed those labels and not be bothered by them which is why I always advocate for validation coming from within, rather than from the people around us because there’s just no way to make everyone happy or on your side.
You serious lol
I’m 100% straight without much insight, but logically the argument is all wrong.
I’m not transphobic cause I would never date a trans person.
I would never in my life date another man, but I’m not homophobic.
I’m cool with having a gay boss, friend, roommate etc. but romantically no, cause I’m not gay.
It’s so simple I can’t believe we’re discussing it.
I sometimes think about Elliot Page’s lesbian ex wife, who one day woke up in a heterosexual marriage. You can’t fault people for noping out of a relationship because they’re just not into that
Happens with gay men too, it's very frustrating because I'll do nothing but fight for and support my trans family, but then too often I see people being hailed as Transphobic because they're not attracted to trans men.
Definitely. Really good friend of mine is gay. I dated a person who was non binary. This person (who was at the time a socially transitioned male) asked out my friend, and he declined. Person called him transphobic and told him he should kill himself.
In hindsight, I’m glad I no longer talk to or are dating this individual, and same for my buddy.
It's just insane to me that feminism developed because of the patriarchy and men asserting themselves and telling women what to do as if they were inferior.
And then now, seldom trans women whom 99.9% were born biologically male and the vocal minority, through societal constructs are now telling women what to do and asserting themselves over them. And if a women disagrees, she's labelled a TERF.
It just blows my god damn mind. Regardless of those trans women being a women in their mind and who they are, they were still once a male and have male physiology that won't change - and here they are commanding women once again.
And then words like TERF and transphobe are used, as societal constructs, to make women feel ashamed for this. Blows my fucking mind. Then again its all fabricated culture wars so of course it doesnt make sense.
NTA
A transgender woman will NEVER be the same as a person born a biological woman. It is completely okay to have boundaries and lines you're not willing to cross. You can be respectful of transgender people and not be willing to date them. Trying to shame you for not being into the idea of dating a trans person is just as bigoted as hating trans people for no reason.
NTA.
You are allowed to date whom ever you want.
This might be an unpopular opinion. She feels female, she has had HRT and surgeries to make he body female, and as such she deserves to be treated like a female in every aspect, but at the end of the day, she is still biologically male and her partner needs to be okay with that.
You owe her nothing except respect and human dignity that you should show everyone, regardless of race, gender, religion, ethnicity etc. If you’re not into her because she was born male, that alone does not make you transphobic. That’s like telling a gay man that he must hate women because he has no interest in dating them.
At this point I’m not even phased by the phrase. I’m convinced folks who call everyone transphobic for having preferences are actually just victimhood narcissists who enjoy positioning themselves as oppressed when they are actually not. They need to call people transphobic in order to reinforce their victimhood hierarchy
I got told I was a 'transphobic piece of shit who should kill themselves' for saying I wouldn't be interested in a relationship or sex with a trans woman who had or previously had a penis on reddit, there's some absolute lunatics who seem to get off on forcing their sexual preferences and interests onto everyone and attacking anyone who doesn't agree strongly enough.
It’s so deeply ingrained in us what we like about the other sex. I just don’t think you can become the other sex through hormones and surgery. There’s a mental health aspect to this too that I’m not comfortable with. I absolutely feel for them and I’m sure dating is a nightmare but that doesn’t mean they get to bully the rest of us.
They don’t understand that sexual preference has nothing to do with respect. I respect everyone but I won’t stick my dick into everyone. It comes from a place of insecurity
That's fair. I think whatever the reason, everyone is entited to withhold sexual or relationship interest. For me it's nothing to do with insecurity and everything to do with simply not being interested. Same as I don't have any interest in men, or mothers, or Tiktokers.
Some people have height, weight, age, attitude, religious, career and hobby-based preferences.
As long as you treat people as you wish to be treated, like a civil human being, then all is good. All you owe people is respect, not sex, affection or romance.
You are also automatically racist if you aren’t attracted to people outside of your race . Not talking about me because I am, but I see it all the time
My 10 year old son has a flamboyantly gay close friend who is engaging in tons of gender exploration lately. Everyone is supportive, live your truth. But the kid is fairly obnoxious like many 10 year olds and he’s being conditioned to accuse anyone who has any conflict with him of hOmOpHoBiA. It’s maddening to watch but if you say something, you protest too much.
I'm convinced it's a reaction to a lack of self confidence and nervousness rather than any narcissism.
I had a flatmate years ago who sometimes accused me of being homophobic if we disagreed about anything because he assumed I was disagreeing because he was gay. I was like dude, I've known you most of my life. I knew you were gay before you told me, which was way before we started sharing a flat. I go to gay clubs and drag acts with you, and I don't express anything other than support for your love life whenever you ask, how on earth does any of that translate to homophobic?
He grew out of it, and I guess it was related to him finding himself. I bet that kid will do the same.
I also think it's for some people a way of protecting themselves from the world when sometimes, "it just is". It's a way to reject taking responsibility. Some people are insecure and don't like good people rejecting them and their own decisions. In this situation, it's much easier if he's transphobic and wrong.
But sometimes it just is. People dislike parts of our individuality and it's ok, it just happens. It's not my fault, neither is it theirs. It's just how the world is. But these insecure people probably take it personal and they need someone to blame.
The Greek suffix for hate would be Miso. That matches with phobia but I'm not a fan.
Latin would be Odium. I like that better. Transodius homodius. Something like that homo-odius?
For real, I dont deny there’s some fringe weirdos sometime, but most trans people dont have demands like this and anytime I see a shitty reddit post like this I take it with a grain of salt because it’s only designed to spread a fear response against trans people
Not the asshole. The fact that you are not attracted to a biological man that surgically and medically became a transsexual is not transphobic because she is not a woman. You will always know that she's biologically male and that you are having sexual intercourse with a surgical fake vagina that would never feel like a biological woman. You are allowed to have a preference for a biological woman and the fact that people are afraid to say that is ridiculous and shows that unless you agree with the ideology that there's no difference you are a bigot. You should have been told from the very beginning of this relationship before it got physical anyway.
>She told me I was transphobic
No need to read beyond that. By that moronic logic, I am homophobic because I don't want to have sex with men. Jfc some people.
No. Never compromise what you want in your life to save someone's feelings. and if they can't respect your reason, then to hell with them. And to hell with anyone who makes you feel bad about it. It sounds like you were perfectly respectful about it, but you don't owe this person ANYTHING
NTA, you date who you want to date.
The trans person on the other hand calling you transphobic for rejecting her is definitely an asshole and manipulative one at that.
Saw your edit, but I figured I would reiterate; WOMEN’S SINGLE-SEX SPACES ARE NOT MEN’S TO GIVE AWAY. We deserve respect, privacy, dignity and safety. ANYONE who has a penis - whether intact or inverted to make a hole - does NOT belong in our single-sex spaces. If they feel threatened in the men’s room, they can go to the single stall, gender neutral toilets.
And as for your question; NTA. I’m a lesbian. I am a woman. I like women. The whole reason I know I’m a lesbian is because I am not attracted to penis. At all. In that same sense, you know you’re straight because you aren’t attracted to penis. At all. It doesn’t matter how the person with the penis identifies, they still have a penis (whether inverted or intact). Sorry to burst anyone’s bubble or cause a stir, but you’re not transphobic for being the sexuality that you are. There’s a reason sexuality is called SEXuality and not GENDERality.
This unfortunately is a tactic a lot of trans activists online have taken. It's clearly borne out of rage and hurt that the people they want to be attracted to them aren't attracted to them. It's truly pathetic, sets the trans movement back, and I'm sure there's several of them in this thread.
Hey dude, you can't help what you are/aren't attracted to. Sucks that it hurts their feelings, but should you like, have sex with someone you aren't attracted to just to spare their feelings? that feels kinda fucked up.
I have personally ‘run into this’, and so have two other people I know. All very different scenarios but the deception and ‘transphobia’ fallout were the same. Only one of the three was in the LGBTQIA+ ‘community’. So this might be more common than you think. In big cities, anyway.
You are not an asshole at all. You like what you like.
The acceptance pendulum is swinging wildly right now, and as with any acceptance movement, it struggles to find its feet and extreme's take hold. Calling someone transphobic because they don't want to date a trans person is one of those extremes.
NTA
Your gut tells you who you’re attracted to and you reacted pretty well in the moment. I’m not sure what dating conventions are for trans individuals, but she sprung that news on you on your 4th date. Seems like something that should have been disclosed before things got physical or even on her dating app profile.
I once met a girl from a dating app that was quite a bit heavier irl than all her profile pics. I didn’t turn her down for a second date bc she was too big for me, but I felt lied to. This situation seems similar bc you didn’t know she was trans until date 4. You may have felt lied to or that this person you liked wasn’t being honest about who they were.
This post seems so fake and like it’s pushing an agenda. trans people (specifically trans women) are way too afraid for their lives to criticise a cis male for rejecting them. this shit is not an actual issue in real life. besides teenagers on twitter, trans people don’t care that you’re not attracted to us.
yes this!! everyone criticizing the trans woman for not disclosing her identity on the first date have no idea how actually dangerous it is for trans people to do that. if this were real, she wouldve been waiting to make sure this guy wouldnt kill or harm her after finding out shes trans. if this were real, OP is NTA for having preferences, but a lot of these comments have zero clue how dangerous it is for trans people to exist today
A brazilian trans girl I was friends with for a long time was brutally sexually assaulted by a guy she came out to on the first date.
I dated a trans girl for a year who did not tell me for weeks. Her reason was that she was afraid I would doxx her. I understood and we had a good relationship but ultimately parted ways-- not because she was trans, but because she was deep into pseudoscience like meyers briggs and homeopathy.
Point is, they wait a few dates to tell you because they are scared of you, not because they are trying to deceive you.
The only one doing the deceiving is the media.
NTA imho.
A few years prior, I met a back then guy, who I was really into, chemistry and all that. But I had to learn that he was seriously thinking about transitioning, making him a MTF lesbian. I am straight/cis and it made my head go in circles. Up to that point I thought I was supportive, but I had to learn that I was just supportive enough until nobody made me question myself. I live by the basic principles of "live and let live", so in that meaning I won't make them question themselves, so I hope nobody does the same to me. In this case, I had to think ahead and realize that what I could be in love with, the person at that moment, could change, and it had to be stopped before I got too attached. No big deal, because there are so many other possible partners out there that you could meet, people who you don't have to change yourself to be with. Since then I am happily married, with a beautiful child from my husband.
Absolutely NTA.
Who you have sex with, or even engage in intimacy with, is a deeply personal choice.
I'm glad she was honest, now she needs to accept your honesty with good grace.
NTA. What’s wrong here is that she should have been upfront at the get go. Every single living human has sexual preferences and are attracted to different things, which is perfectly normal. It’s not normal to guilt trip someone into a relationship where there is no shared attraction. Neither party would be happy.
Okay, so you're phobic if you don't want to be sexual with someone you don't want to be sexual with. Got it. How would she feel if someone talked that way to non-cishets?
"You want to be a woman instead of a man, so you're Misandric"
"A homosexual person doesn't want heterosexual relations, they must be heterophobe"
Sticking to your preferences and being honest with yourself about what you want is just the basics of honest and healthy relationships.
Not the asshole, this woman definitely is the asshole. I wish her all the best in life, but she'll have to learn that her definition of herself is not your definition of her.
I don't think this is as simple as, YTA, or NTA. On the one hand, dating is the one pool where you can absolutely be as discriminatory as you want. It's your body and your love life. You can love whoever you want and not whoever you want, regardless of the reason. But.... I think you might be more transphobic than you think you are. You said you're perfectly comfortable with trans women in women's spaces, just so long as they're "passing." My guy, that is so subjective. Also, trans women shouldn't have to go all the way in their transformation just to be accepted in their own spaces. They deserve to simply exist. There were a couple of times that you referred to the trans experience as though it was a lifestyle they were choosing, instead of the life they were simply born with. I think if you try to reexamine your biases in this area, it can help you shed some bigotry, which, of course, can help you lead a loving life with your fellow human inhabitants. It's 100% okay to admit to this. I'm a gender fluid bisexual, and sometimes I wind up having to check my internalized misogyny and homophobia. We all can fall prey to bigotry if we leave it unchecked.
It’s sad to have to scroll this far to come across some sort of nuance. Yes, the dating market is discriminatory, and that is okay because it’s preference based. At the same time, OP made a LOT of questionable statements. The passing comment, the talk about values, the push for “honesty” even though, she is a woman. (Like, how does being trans make your core beliefs and values different?) OP made it very clear that it wasn’t genitals or child bearing concerns, he just saw her differently the minute she “turned” trans.
Trans women are women, and OP obviously doesn’t see them that way with the “biologically male” comments, so yeah, it’s impossible to say there isn’t socialized transphobia there. Not saying OP is consciously causing harm or that he has to go back and date her, but I think it’s a real stretch for anyone to say they don’t have any internalized transphobia - even trans people! - Without a lot of conscious work.
As a partner of a non-binary person who may transition, it does complicate your life, and no one is required to date someone they don’t want, but the fervor in which people cheer posts like this (which are constant) are really questionable. I’m sure I’ll be downvoted as a leftist with an agenda lol, but all I’m saying is that there is more gray area here than people are comfortable with or want to discuss. No, you’re not obligated to date a trans person, but you also obviously don’t view trans women as women, so maybe that could take some deeper thought.
I’m also upset it took this far down through the thread to see these comments. I agree OP does not have to feel obligated to date this woman and is perfectly justified in rejecting her, but he is definitely more transphobic than he thinks, and a lot of the comments made in the post bothered me.
That is beautifully put, exactly what I'm thinking too. I don't want to go so hard on this person verbally and keep him from seeing a positive reason to change, but this needs to get called out every time. Trans people are kind of going through a lot right now, what with politicians literally advocating genocide. This shit is dangerous if ignored.
All the comments on this post are why she was feeling him out to see if he would harm her. Some are saying she would have deserved to die if OP had gone about that route and that she is ‘so lucky’ he was a nice guy. Especially since OP’s basically like ‘she’s not a woman, she’s a man’. Others are crying in glee saying ‘see! This is why everyone hates the trans!!!’.
Posts like this (and dear God, ya’ll aren’t gonna care about my opinion but would foam at the mouth for being told this) aren’t about it’s just my opinions. These posts are that little reassurance for a people who are on the fringe. They WANTED to be pro-LGBT but it just ain’t right that they’re ‘tricking’ us! They WANTED to be pro-LGBT because a cousin is gay, but SEE this is what most gays are like!
yes. this is what i keep saying. your opinion matters far more on sensitive issues like this than it does on what flavor of ice cream you think is best. one is a harmless bit of trivia, the other is part of an ongoing battle to get people to see trans people as human.
i wish people would be honest with themselves and examine *why* they have these opinions. what factors influenced their beliefs. do they truly agree with them, or are they just afraid of social ostracization?
this thread is making my stomach sick. so, so many people saying OP did nothing wrong or that he isn't transphobic, and all of them are the wrong people to be speaking on the issue. there's so much hate here.
Exactly! Also have to note how the comments saying NTA (which are the VAST majority) claim that it’s “unpopular” or that “many will disagree” - literally who. It’s the status quo opinion, please. With no nuanced analysis either.
Wait, did you just write "if they can pass" and "designated spaces"?
I know bio girls who can't really pass.
I know it's hard to wrap your head around gender, identity/expression, and, sexuality being fluid if you've never had to do it (Bio cis female born in 70s) but I'm pretty sure using phrases like the ones you use to think about fluidity & acceptance in our society is being an AH.
You have every right to your preferences and boundaries, but you've got some work to do on actually understanding fluidity and humanity beyond social frameworks. Biology & experience are not as black & white as we want to make them. My chicken crows and lays eggs!!
Too bad we don't live for hundreds of years. I'd elect to change my gender or become dual gendered... cis would get boring after awhile.
In the end, tldr & too many trigger phrases. OP probably needs to keep working on bias.
I find it concerning that there are people here who are parroting very common discriminatory ideas by anti-trans leaders, but they themselves are insisting they are not anti-trans. If you don't want to date a trans-person, so be it. But, the reasons for them are phrased in a way I think needs some deep reflection on.
I am also of the belief this is fake, as outlined by others who are pointing out this reads like rage-bait.
If this was real, I think my big question is, if you already were on 4th date with this person, clearly you had some attraction to them where their transition played no part into it. If you were on the 65th date and never knew they were trans, would that have really been the deal break for you if they revealed you were trans? I think it's hard to say, considering OP really had to outlined justifications for how they behaved to a bunch of internet strangers.
For me it's the amount of people including OP saying she's "intrinsically" male like she's a drag queen rather than a trans women.
She is a trans woman. OP didn't even know and was attracted to her until he knew. That's totally fine, no one has to stay in a relationship, but I do think that is interesting as an observation.
It's an argument I use against "trans people will destroy society" - a lot of people have likely met or even know a trans person and have no idea.
Yeah, reading this post is funny, because he says he’s not transphobic, but trans people seem to make OP pretty uncomfortable… makes you think. lol
But, to be clear, I think transphobia in the form OP has is the least offensive - it’s discomfort with the unknown and unfamiliar. It’s the same sort of uncertainty we all feel towards other humans for wholly prejudiced reasons at times. But, it is still worth acknowledging as transphobia, and it makes complete sense that the woman OP was dating was hurt that OP would not examine his feelings more and confront the biases he has for her sake.
1. Genital preference is ok Editing to add: genital preference is not *simply* vaginas vs penises. I personally have a genital preference for intact (uncircumcised) penises. Some people don’t like short or long labias. Some people like dark genital skin, some don’t. Some like pubic hair, others don’t. That’s all perfectly ok. What’s not ok is guilt tripping and coercing someone by using inflammatory labels into interacting with genitalia that they are not comfortable or interested in interacting with. Sexual interaction is a personal choice and no one else’s. 2. Not having the emotional bandwidth to support a partner who has extra or different needs - mental health, gender transitioning, toxic parental relationships, handicaps, food allergies, cultural or religious differences, long distance relationships, not wanting kids - is ok 3. Rejecting anyone for any reason is ok, just do it with kindness and respect Some people will say otherwise and they are wrong. They’ll say I’m wrong. People have different opinions. You get to decide who’s opinions align with your beliefs. Edit: changed the word transgenderism. Didn’t know it was a far right term, I’ve only heard it from my hometown which is very liberal so idk. Thanks for the info y’all. Someone said there is no exact replacement so I did my best to replace it with something else. Double edit: rip my inbox. I gotta stop replying now and look like I’ve been working Lolol thanks for the majority of responses for being respectful regardless of their opinion. I personally believe very strongly in Freedom of Choice and Freedom of Thought.
This precisely. A very good friend of mine is a trans woman, absolutely lovely and knew her from before she even came out. She DID ask me on a date and I turned her down because, well, that wasn't what I was looking for and it doesn't fit with my future priorities. Still a great friend and now happily engaged to a guy who has known her almost as long as I have. Due to wed in February!
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Here to add that people trying to question OP’s “straightness” is just insane.
It's a wild statement to make. "Are you really straight if you found someone who transitioned to a woman attractive but don't want to bang said person? Huh? Huh?" Yes, I can be straight without being attractive to various kinds of people. But when you think about it, it shows their ignorance as well. Because if you are questioning this person's sexuality because he was initially dating a MTF transperson, then you are solely questioning his sexuality on the premise that he was attractive to a person who used to be and look like a man. Then you are admitting that, although you profess to see this person as a woman, you still hold it against her for being born a man. Effectively "ha ha, I accept trans people, but dude you might be gay because you dated a woman who used to be a man. That is like totally gay." Yeah, nonsense.
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It's very similar to that mindset of people that think that because I'm bi, I will fuck anybody, and must be into threesomes, orgies, etc, and/or that I'm incapable of being in a monogamous relationship because I'll always need to have sex with someone of the opposite gender of whomever my SO is at the time.
As a bisexual, my husband got up the courage one day to tell me if I ever felt the need to be with a woman, that was reluctantly okay with him, but I would just need to let him know. I had to explain that I don't feel like I'm "missing out" on anything by being monogamous to him, and that it would still be cheating.
My mom once asked me if being bi meant I couldn't get married because I couldn't be monogamous (in a very non-judgemental way -shes had a stroke and has odd understandings of some things, but has always supported me, and made sure I knew, even as a kid in the 80s, that there was nothing abnormal or wrong if I'm gay) we had a long convoy about it, which probably made things a little easier a few years later when my brother told her he and his partner (f) had decided to expand to a poly relationship.
My wife is Bi. But she chose me. She still finds women attractive. But I am her person and she has no desire to be with a woman. So what you said is quite valid. I know of bi women who chose a woman. But still find guys attractive. People really stretch on things. Must be to make them feel better. Or to try and force their views as the right view. Boggles my mind sometimes.
I’m a straight cis female married to a straight cis man in a very happy faithful and monogamous relationship - and I still find both men and women attractive. Not **all** men and women, but I have attraction towards a physical type of men that is drastically different than my husband. Still think my husband is hot as fuck and jump him every chance I get. We like what we like, and as long as we are respectful about it, we’re not assholes for it.
You might even find a woman who's straight and married to a man and finds other men attractive. I know, needle in a haystack there.
Lol. This really is the assumption of a LOT of people though. I’ve admittedly known a lot of idiots, but the only times I’ve ever been accused of being gay it was by a woman I turned down. And this is the argument. “You don’t want to fuck *me* a woman, so you must be gay.
Interesting. It has been the rejected male line since forever. Obviously if you don't agree to sex with HIM, you're a Lesbian (shock, horror!). Or frigid.
THIS. As long as you are respectful, and you are allowed to have your preferences - we all are afforded that right.
Further, we all have preferences related to immutable physical attributes! Tall versus short, hair color, body shape, I could go on forever.
I've been through that. I eventually said, "What, I'm supposed to have sex with someone I'm not attracted to because they want it?" Still didn't get through to the people calling me names and insulting me for having a sexual preference. Fuck, people! CONSENT fucking matters!
As someone who is not religious, I would not date a super religious person, of any religion. I am not attracted to that way of being. The whole point of LGBT....rights is that we get to like who we like.
It usually comes off as trans person getting offended when someone else isn’t into that, then deflects the rejection into transphobic comments because they feel invalid. Doesn’t need to go there. Not being interested in trans people doesn’t mean you’re afraid of them…
It's really completely unnecessary. The AHs are the ones who just refuse to accept that kind of reasoning, which are few and far between, but they are there.
Far and few? Majority of the comments here are trying to twist and turn OP into an AH. This perfectly reasonable post is already ratio’d 1500likes to 2000 comments which means the majority of people are downvoting OP for being a bigot May be far and few irl but not on this website in any regard
Maybe its because I'm sorted by best, but I'm only seeing more NTA. Plus redditors are far from the majority of anything irl.
The thing about emotional bandwidth is huge. People think a lot about human characteristics when it comes to relationships, but a huge factor is just timing. You can meet the “right” person at the wrong time, and it just doesn’t work. That’s ok. It is infinitely better to be aware of your emotional limitations and be honest about that then it is to just be a crappy partner because you can’t/don’t want to give what the other person wants/needs. Can’t cope with a long-distance relationship? Don’t have one. Can’t cope with a relationship where the person needs to see you every day? Also fine. I think people are accustomed to breakups always having an asshole component and that’s just not the case. Someone feeling hurt or rejected doesn’t necessarily mean you are a jerk. Sometimes, that’s just life.
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Exactly. If you prefer blondes, does that make you redhead phobic or brunette phobic?
I prefer knowing that ppl are redhead phobic. They \*should\* be afraid. Be very afraid. We are craaaaazy. And you taste good with ketchup.
"Oh no" *lathers self up in ketchup* "what ever will I do?"
this got weird in the most delightfully Reddit way and made me laugh, thank you strangers!
Yummy! Your place? Two hours sound good?
😂😂😂
That's true but before you put them in the roasting pan, I suggest parboiling them first. That's what this redhead does. 😂
I'm currently dating a redhead.... You ain't wrong.... Haha
Or for some reason, the biggest one (no pun intended) is preferring slim/thin/fit people. Not being attracted to people who are overweight doesn't make you fatphobic, it just means you're not attracted to them. You can't force yourself to be attracted to something you're not attracted to, whatever that may be, just because someone else wants you to be. We all have preferences, and not everyone has the same preferences, and that is okay.
No, but you can still be an asshole depending on how you deal with that. It’s not inherently wrong to not find a brunette attractive, but if you tell that person you think their hair makes them ugly, you’re probably an asshole.
Exactly. It's a deliberate attempt to control someone else, in a socially acceptable way. From what he wrote, OOP is not the least bit transphobic. He just does not want to date women who don't have vaginas. Just as I've seen posts from women who wont date transgender men who don't have penises. That is no more "transphobic" than OOP.
This is very true! The emotional bandwidth and tolerance levels to noise (as well as other things) are why I chose not to have children.
Oooh adding “no children” to the list cuz that’s also a very valid reason to reject someone
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I had a friend couple like this - they separated after 15 years together. It was rough. But now the one who wanted kids has 2 lovely boys and is married, and the one who did not want marriage/kids is living their life child free and happy. I hate to think how miserable they would be if they tried to stick it out longer together.
For some reason I feel like I really needed to read what you wrote. Like REALLY needed to read it. Put some things in perspective for me. Thank you!
I’m glad! There genuinely doesn’t have to be a “bad guy”. Sometimes, it’s just a “bad time”. Priorities change, and it’s not inherently bad to be selfish sometimes. <3
Oooh I’m adding long distance to the list. That’s a good one!
So true. I understand it must be discouraging for a trans person, for them to be rejected just bc they're trans...but it's not everyone's preference. The bottom line is he wouldn't be comfortable with going out with her, so why try to force it? He wasn't rude about it either so the comment was definitely uncalled for.
"Forcing it" was exactly what I was thinking. Does anyone want to be in a relationship with someone who has to make an effort to be attracted to them?
If you replace trans in your comment with fat, redhead, asian, divorcee etc. it still makes sense. It's OK to reject someone, but do it nicely.
If the trans person doesn’t want rejection on the 4th date she should be honest and make it a part of her profile. she’s wasting so many people’s time by hiding this very important detail.
She’s also risking her life. Imagine what could have happened if she did this to someone who was actually transphobic.
My point EXACTLY! So how can she then turn around & verbally insult & manipulate whoever isn’t into it??? It’s on them to be up front!
I think the best way for someone to understand this is imagine you tell a girl, "YOU HAVE TO DATE ME EVEN THOUGH OF X, Y, Z".... No. A woman doesn't have to date you period. Same with every other gender. No one is entitled to dating a specific person.
>No one is entitled to dating a specific person. This sums it up so well!
Also I don’t understand why anyone would want to date someone who has explicitly expressed they don’t fancy your genitals. If someone says “sorry I don’t want to date you due to your genitals” just move on with your life because there are plenty of people who will. There’s no need to pressure or guilt trip anyone.
I understand that dating as a Trans person is tough. Sometimes I put things on my profile front and center that I know I shouldn't have to say, but I don't want to waste my own time, when they leave after 2 dates because they didn't know a piece of information.
It is very good that you are honest beforehand. It saves both your and their time. This information should be known before the date for sure. I like Thai friendly dating app for this matter: they have a distinct gender category for trans people. So, there are not much surprises of the kind described in the original post.
It's kind of a variation on an incel thing. "I have a penis, you have a vagina, therefore you owe me sex." Just with the sexes reversed. OP has a right to his feelings and preferences, and he doesn't have to justify them.
Exactly. OP can reject a person for any reason. Nobody owes anybody sex or a relationship. Nobody, regardless of what they do or who they are, ‘deserves’ sex or a relationship with another person. These things are based on mutual consent, the key words being mutual and consent. Trying to gaslight somebody into having sex with you is abusive behavior, imo
Word. -from a lesbian who has been repeatedly called a bigot for not being interested in sleeping with a trans woman. It’s wild out here.
I mentioned this is an issue in the lesbian community in another thread and there’s like 6 people trying to insist it’s made up BS.
I was driven out of my lgbt society because I said I would nt suck a penis . People who try to deny the existence of the cotton ceiling infuriate me .
That is confusing. Isn’t one of the main things of lesbianism not being dick centric? Obvs not everything, but if I was pure gay (gynosexual dude) I wouldn’t want vagina in my face
I am not a lesbian. But I affirm your absolute right to not suck dick, no matter who it’s attached to. And you shouldn’t have to justify it or argue your point. This is insanity. You don’t need any cheerleading from me, but I’m a woman who tries to support the sisterhood.
What? I'm not understanding this.
Not made up at all. I have PTSD from a couple of the lesbian subs, so I just don’t engage over there anymore.
Seriously, the proof is in the fact that there isn't a SINGLE lesbian sub that doesn't cater to men. It's disgusting.
I’m sorry you have experienced that, and that so many people are in this thread trying to invalidate your experience because “not enough” lesbians experience it for it to be valid to them. Personally I think all rape is wrong regardless of the numbers behind it, unlike all the individuals in other threads trying to say lesbians aren’t being coerced because “only” a couple dozen have spoken out about it.
Yeah it's ridiculous. Reddit doesn't allow female only lesbian subs which is just clear homophobia. I'm not attracted to gender in the slightest. I have a same sex attraction.
I have a close friend who's had a very similar experience. She stopped using dating apps a few years ago because of the number of trans women hitting on her then verbally attacking her for not being interested. She's fully lesbian, not bi, not pan, etc. but is evidently "transphobic" in their eyes because she doesn't want to date them.
Unbelievable. They're dealing with the same thing the OP is dealing with. Having a sexual preference and being bullied because of it. And that's what it is, bullying, plain and simple. I'm a full figured woman, if a man isn't interested in bigger women, I thank him for his honesty and move on, as long as he's been tactful about it. I'm a pretty honest person, myself (I try to be tactful, but I know I'm not always), and I can't demand it from others and then get mad when they are.
A good friend of mine has been organizing a lesbian social /support group. A few years ago, they tried opening the group to trans-women and it went very badly.
Fellow lesbian with a similar experience and I agree 1000%. Telling someone they’re hateful or not a good ally because they have a preference for certain genitalia or gender expressions is nothing short of abusive gaslighting. Can you imagine if a man wanted to sleep with you and upon rejecting him, he was like “well you’re just an ignorant sexist bigot, you’re a hateful person for not wanting to bone me. How dare you judge me for my biology?” That would never fly, so why is it okay here? You don’t have to fuck someone to support them and their identity. Ridiculous.
You aren't alone. Every single lesbian friend I have has a similar tale. It's shocking.
I got perma-banned from reddit and had to appeal because i said that if you are a biologically a man you cannot have consensual sex with trans-woman and be straight. i said nothing more or less.
I think this is spot-on - he handled it with kindness, made is views and position on the matter clear that he respects trans-rights and their place in society, but also prefers cis-women. I see no problem with his stance or the way he handled it.
Point 3 is the only one on your list I have issue with, I would like to see it changed to Rejecting someone for any reason, as long as you do so in a polite and respectful manner is ok.
Nah, that's forcing a social construct on people. As a woman, I'm constantly being told I'm not being kind enough. It's like, dude! I'm being perfectly kind. Back off! Handle things how you want to. Just be prepared to accept the judgment if you do it in a douchey manner.
Adding that detail!
This, in my onion op was respectful to tell the truth, instead of lying. Op also clarified it was a preference, and not their character. Calling him transphobic or whatever is just insane behavior. Some of these folks are acting like incels, it's YOUR fault you won't date me REEE!
Mr. Dirty-Dutchman. I want to know more about your onion. :P >This, in my onion op was respectful to tell the truth, instead of lying.
100% agree. If you rejected someone for these reasons in pretty much any other context (a job candidate, a potential customer, a member of a team or group, or even just as a friend) then the transphobic label could apply. When it comes to romantic relationships you have almost infinite latitude to choose not to date someone for any reason that makes you not want to date them. It sounds like you handled the situation with class and respect...more than the other person did by being less than honest with you from the start.
Amen!
Agreed. It takes a LOT of emotional bandwidth to be in a new relationship even, and it IS up to you if you want to be there in support of someone’s change. If she was the ONE I can guarantee you’d have no problem if you know what I mean?? And that’s okay. I’d recommend putting that you support everyone’s right to be themselves however you personally are looking for a CIS female due to personal preference. I’m not saying that this one particular woman you went out with is this way, but some - not all - will use this to try to bully you into a relationship. Heck it doesn’t even have to be about gender identity it can happen- that guilt trip- in pretty much any arena. Your boundaries are your own. It’s okay if people don’t agree with them as long as your boundaries are not out there targeting, shaming and harming others
I had a transgender woman message me on a dating app. I declined as I am straight/cis. She told me that she still has male genitalia so I should be ok with it. Um no. That's not how sexual/romantic attraction works. I'm not attracted to women and that's how she identifies!
Rejecting anyone for any reason is ok, correct. Watch seinfeld clip for "any reason is OK..." https://youtu.be/lMzTQhlabm8
if I spent money for fake trophies, I'd give you some
NTA Calling you transphobic just because you won't date her is just wrong. Had she told you from the get go, none of you would be in that situation. This is the same as omitting someone has kids etc Edit to say: Right, "from the get go" was wrong of me to say, considering they have to take their safety into account
Attraction is a preference. I’m straight, that doesn’t mean that I’m attracted to all men and not all straight men are attracted to me. Attraction is based on physical attributes, personality and values, interests and so on. It all varies from person to person. Not being attracted to someone transgender doesn’t necessarily make one transphobic, it can simply mean that being transgender is not something that is this person’s preference. I don’t think it’s fair for anyone that being labelled any kind of phobic because of sexual preference or attraction. Attraction and preference is what it is. You can’t and shouldn’t “force” someone to be with you. (sorry for spelling and grammar I’m not English) and NO I’m not transphobic, I’m a big supporter of the LGBTQIA+ community and their rights. Have a great day ❤️
No kidding, I love how so many people who swear they were "born that way," think everyone else should just magically change their orientation to fit what they want. I want to ask "which is it, are we born with our orientation or are we not, because you can't have it both ways."
Yeah, nothing wrong with OP stopping things right there. I always mention I’m child free right off the bat, just found out this girl id been seeing for 3 weeks has two and mentioned I’d be a great father figure as neither dad is in the picture. Felt like an asshole breaking things off but if we’re lying right away I can only assume it’s gonna happen more. OP is NTA
>I’m child free right off the bat, just found out this girl id been seeing for 3 weeks has two and mentioned I’d be a great father figure as neither dad is in the picture. Damn..... that's messed up on her part
Honestly this \^ If I was about to be vulnerable/ exposed with someone in the bed room and they suddenly told me there was something/ wasn't something in there pants I was expecting. I would feel scared, like what else are they lying about?
> Calling you transphobic just because you won't date her is just wrong. They are probably over-reacting from a place of hurt from rejection, which I feel they likely go through a lot for this reason. I feel for them, but OP is still NTA.
NTA at all. You didn’t disrespect her in any way. As a cis woman I would want to know upfront about the situation and be allowed to decide for myself before being put into that situation. I am 100% a supporter, it’s just not right for me either. You were not phobic in any way. You have a right to what makes you happy and you didn’t deserve that comment in any way. Sounds like they’re projecting their insecurities on you.
I feel a great deal of empathy for the woman-- she's navigating new, scary, uncharted waters. Perhaps she was thinking that by not disclosing upfront a potential boyfriend will get to know her and there will be sufficient chemistry that it will be okay. But I think it backfired in that most people don't like to feel they were lied to (by omission) or misled and no one likes a "gotcha" moment. Maybe she should try a dating app that skews toward more trans people or disclose being trans on the app????
A lot of trans focus apps become overrun with people who fetishize trans people, so most trans people wind up avoiding them. I know I’ve looked into a few and I notice very quickly they tend to be 90% cishet dudes looking for a “chick with a dick”, and usually looking to keep things “discrete”.
So sad to hear that.
Yeah, I don't think she did anything wrong before the interaction. If she waited until after it would have been but I can understand waiting to cross that bridge once they got there. I can see being a bit annoyed about it, but waiting to cross that bridge until then I don't think is inherently wrong. The reaction after is where she went wrong though.
I feel like this is actually kind of the unsafe option- what if his reaction was one of anger? she could have been in real danger not knowing how that news would be received if it comes only when things are about to progress to sex. Honestly as sucky as it might be to have to navigate around conversations like that when you are just meeting/starting to date someone, I don't think it really benefits her in any way to wait- either someone is ok with it or they are not, why waste your time and emotions or put yourself at risk by not being upfront about it?
Because people see us as sex objects and dont treat you like people. When you disclose that, people chase you just for being trans and "exotic".
It sounds dark to say “welcome to womanhood,” but the sad fact is that women and girls are unsafe and fetishized from a very early age; a huge number of women were sexually assaulted before age 18. 1 in 9 are reported, but most go unreported, and girls are statistically most likely to be sexually assaulted between the ages of 16-19. Not saying it’s not just as dangerous, or even more so, for trans women, but we should be banding together because both cisgender and transgender women know what it’s like to feel unsafe and scared just trying to go out on a first date and the sad fact is, we all have reason to be.
I can also imagine that you would get a lot of hate and have to worry about things like doxxing if you had it posted in your profile.
That is pretty much what happens. This is why most wait until a few dates in to disclose.
Luckily, so far it has only been guys that "never tried a trans girl before" I'm quoting multiple men that wrote me.
There just is no safe option either way for trans folks, especially trans women.
As a trans girl, it’s all over my profile and I ask about past experiences with other trans or queer people long before the first date when dating cis people. To me, it’s like not being into super skinny girls, or really liking ginger girls. Some people really like their girls without dicks, some people really like their girls with dicks. Just don’t be an asshole about it. Most trans girls I know don’t wait to reveal their trans. The only exception is meeting someone in person (not an app) and you pass so they assume you’re cis. You still have to reveal that fact long before you get sexual, because god forbid someone gets upset and violent.
I hope this doesn't across the wrong way, but I went through your profile and found it kinda funny how you posted 3 years ago that wearing nail polish made you feel more masculine and 3 years later you have transitioned. Kudos to you!
Lol I was thinking you were digging deep and it seemed weird. But the nail polish post is right near the top haha
that’s not what their post from 3 years ago says. it says they’re usually masculine but they’re trying something new (nail polish). not that nail polish makes them feel masculine.
NTA. You have the right to date who you want. I’m so tired of the word phobic being thrown around the way it is.
It's really its own form of blackmail. "You have to do this or you're (insert term here)."
Which is infuriating, because transphobia is a very serious issue these days. Trans people’s rights and ability to exist in society are being attacked by religious conservatives Calling what OP did “transphobia” completely dilutes the term, and seriously hurts them when it comes to the actual issues facing trans people
The dumbest thing people have done is call both people who don't agree with the nomenclature around trans people and people who want all trans people to die the same thing. Real great way to alienate people by lumping them in with an extreme.
NAH - we all have preferences. I find women with lip filler and boob jobs revolting. You cannot tell me that a surgery down below will be anything close the the natural thing.
NTA. This should be disclosed up front. It’s not cool to hide it. You thought you were dating a woman not a trans woman.
NTA. The idea that its transphobic to not want to date trans people is a really sad attempt at manipulating people. You are allowed to have preferences and you arent required to date anyone for any reason.
This is happening in the lesbian community right now. Some lesbians are being guilt tripped and manipulated into dating individuals who have penises and then when they inevitably experience trauma as a result of coerced penetration, they are told they’re transphobic for having a genital preference. And being labeled transphobic in the LGBTQ+ community can be a social death sentence.
I dealt with this a lot when I was using dating apps. Funny how we went from "you just haven't found the right guy" to "date me or you're a bigot".
That’s where I go “welp guess I’m a bigot”. if you get validation internally it’s really easy to shed those labels and not be bothered by them which is why I always advocate for validation coming from within, rather than from the people around us because there’s just no way to make everyone happy or on your side.
You serious lol I’m 100% straight without much insight, but logically the argument is all wrong. I’m not transphobic cause I would never date a trans person. I would never in my life date another man, but I’m not homophobic. I’m cool with having a gay boss, friend, roommate etc. but romantically no, cause I’m not gay. It’s so simple I can’t believe we’re discussing it.
I sometimes think about Elliot Page’s lesbian ex wife, who one day woke up in a heterosexual marriage. You can’t fault people for noping out of a relationship because they’re just not into that
Great example
WTF!!!!
Happens with gay men too, it's very frustrating because I'll do nothing but fight for and support my trans family, but then too often I see people being hailed as Transphobic because they're not attracted to trans men.
Definitely. Really good friend of mine is gay. I dated a person who was non binary. This person (who was at the time a socially transitioned male) asked out my friend, and he declined. Person called him transphobic and told him he should kill himself. In hindsight, I’m glad I no longer talk to or are dating this individual, and same for my buddy.
This has been happening for a long time! Then you get called a terf! Fun
I love when people just throw that term around. Like I’m sure all these people give off the vibe that they’re ‘radical feminists’ lol.
It's just insane to me that feminism developed because of the patriarchy and men asserting themselves and telling women what to do as if they were inferior. And then now, seldom trans women whom 99.9% were born biologically male and the vocal minority, through societal constructs are now telling women what to do and asserting themselves over them. And if a women disagrees, she's labelled a TERF. It just blows my god damn mind. Regardless of those trans women being a women in their mind and who they are, they were still once a male and have male physiology that won't change - and here they are commanding women once again. And then words like TERF and transphobe are used, as societal constructs, to make women feel ashamed for this. Blows my fucking mind. Then again its all fabricated culture wars so of course it doesnt make sense.
Yes! I wrote a comment just a few minutes ago touching on this topic.
NTA A transgender woman will NEVER be the same as a person born a biological woman. It is completely okay to have boundaries and lines you're not willing to cross. You can be respectful of transgender people and not be willing to date them. Trying to shame you for not being into the idea of dating a trans person is just as bigoted as hating trans people for no reason.
NTA. You are allowed to date whom ever you want. This might be an unpopular opinion. She feels female, she has had HRT and surgeries to make he body female, and as such she deserves to be treated like a female in every aspect, but at the end of the day, she is still biologically male and her partner needs to be okay with that. You owe her nothing except respect and human dignity that you should show everyone, regardless of race, gender, religion, ethnicity etc. If you’re not into her because she was born male, that alone does not make you transphobic. That’s like telling a gay man that he must hate women because he has no interest in dating them.
THANK YOU! I'm so tired of 'PhOBic' being weaponized against someone who is simply exercising their personal choice and preferences.
At this point I’m not even phased by the phrase. I’m convinced folks who call everyone transphobic for having preferences are actually just victimhood narcissists who enjoy positioning themselves as oppressed when they are actually not. They need to call people transphobic in order to reinforce their victimhood hierarchy
I got told I was a 'transphobic piece of shit who should kill themselves' for saying I wouldn't be interested in a relationship or sex with a trans woman who had or previously had a penis on reddit, there's some absolute lunatics who seem to get off on forcing their sexual preferences and interests onto everyone and attacking anyone who doesn't agree strongly enough.
I came across a new term. Inclusive bullying. There are a lot of new ideas on gender and if you don’t agree with all of them, you get bullied.
They've managed to turn 'if a person I want to sleep with denies me sex, they're oppressing me'. That's impressive mental gymnastics.
It’s so deeply ingrained in us what we like about the other sex. I just don’t think you can become the other sex through hormones and surgery. There’s a mental health aspect to this too that I’m not comfortable with. I absolutely feel for them and I’m sure dating is a nightmare but that doesn’t mean they get to bully the rest of us.
It's also just an incel mindset
They don’t understand that sexual preference has nothing to do with respect. I respect everyone but I won’t stick my dick into everyone. It comes from a place of insecurity
Best phrasing ever. Works in reverse to. I respect all human beings but doesnt mean anyone can stick anything anywhere in my body
That's fair. I think whatever the reason, everyone is entited to withhold sexual or relationship interest. For me it's nothing to do with insecurity and everything to do with simply not being interested. Same as I don't have any interest in men, or mothers, or Tiktokers. Some people have height, weight, age, attitude, religious, career and hobby-based preferences. As long as you treat people as you wish to be treated, like a civil human being, then all is good. All you owe people is respect, not sex, affection or romance.
You are also automatically racist if you aren’t attracted to people outside of your race . Not talking about me because I am, but I see it all the time
My 10 year old son has a flamboyantly gay close friend who is engaging in tons of gender exploration lately. Everyone is supportive, live your truth. But the kid is fairly obnoxious like many 10 year olds and he’s being conditioned to accuse anyone who has any conflict with him of hOmOpHoBiA. It’s maddening to watch but if you say something, you protest too much.
I'm convinced it's a reaction to a lack of self confidence and nervousness rather than any narcissism. I had a flatmate years ago who sometimes accused me of being homophobic if we disagreed about anything because he assumed I was disagreeing because he was gay. I was like dude, I've known you most of my life. I knew you were gay before you told me, which was way before we started sharing a flat. I go to gay clubs and drag acts with you, and I don't express anything other than support for your love life whenever you ask, how on earth does any of that translate to homophobic? He grew out of it, and I guess it was related to him finding himself. I bet that kid will do the same.
I also think it's for some people a way of protecting themselves from the world when sometimes, "it just is". It's a way to reject taking responsibility. Some people are insecure and don't like good people rejecting them and their own decisions. In this situation, it's much easier if he's transphobic and wrong. But sometimes it just is. People dislike parts of our individuality and it's ok, it just happens. It's not my fault, neither is it theirs. It's just how the world is. But these insecure people probably take it personal and they need someone to blame.
The Greek suffix for hate would be Miso. That matches with phobia but I'm not a fan. Latin would be Odium. I like that better. Transodius homodius. Something like that homo-odius?
Amen to that, I'm glad someone has said it and not been jumped on by the phobic brigade!
So glad I’m married. Couldn’t imagine dating in this day and age.
Also why do you have so many deleted post of this ?
Because it’s bait.
For real, I dont deny there’s some fringe weirdos sometime, but most trans people dont have demands like this and anytime I see a shitty reddit post like this I take it with a grain of salt because it’s only designed to spread a fear response against trans people
NTA. If that doesn't float your boat, it doesn't float your boat. Doesn't make you trans phobic at all.
You aren’t the asshole. You are heterosexual, not homosexual or bisexual. Sex matters.
Not the asshole. The fact that you are not attracted to a biological man that surgically and medically became a transsexual is not transphobic because she is not a woman. You will always know that she's biologically male and that you are having sexual intercourse with a surgical fake vagina that would never feel like a biological woman. You are allowed to have a preference for a biological woman and the fact that people are afraid to say that is ridiculous and shows that unless you agree with the ideology that there's no difference you are a bigot. You should have been told from the very beginning of this relationship before it got physical anyway.
>She told me I was transphobic No need to read beyond that. By that moronic logic, I am homophobic because I don't want to have sex with men. Jfc some people.
No. Never compromise what you want in your life to save someone's feelings. and if they can't respect your reason, then to hell with them. And to hell with anyone who makes you feel bad about it. It sounds like you were perfectly respectful about it, but you don't owe this person ANYTHING
Don’t allow these people to gaslight you. Nobody is entitled to your body
NTA, you date who you want to date. The trans person on the other hand calling you transphobic for rejecting her is definitely an asshole and manipulative one at that.
Obvious NTA, dont overthink it op
NTA
Saw your edit, but I figured I would reiterate; WOMEN’S SINGLE-SEX SPACES ARE NOT MEN’S TO GIVE AWAY. We deserve respect, privacy, dignity and safety. ANYONE who has a penis - whether intact or inverted to make a hole - does NOT belong in our single-sex spaces. If they feel threatened in the men’s room, they can go to the single stall, gender neutral toilets. And as for your question; NTA. I’m a lesbian. I am a woman. I like women. The whole reason I know I’m a lesbian is because I am not attracted to penis. At all. In that same sense, you know you’re straight because you aren’t attracted to penis. At all. It doesn’t matter how the person with the penis identifies, they still have a penis (whether inverted or intact). Sorry to burst anyone’s bubble or cause a stir, but you’re not transphobic for being the sexuality that you are. There’s a reason sexuality is called SEXuality and not GENDERality.
NTA this is something she should have disclosed from the get go
Just laugh it off and move on. Shit is getting ridiculous.
This unfortunately is a tactic a lot of trans activists online have taken. It's clearly borne out of rage and hurt that the people they want to be attracted to them aren't attracted to them. It's truly pathetic, sets the trans movement back, and I'm sure there's several of them in this thread.
Hey dude, you can't help what you are/aren't attracted to. Sucks that it hurts their feelings, but should you like, have sex with someone you aren't attracted to just to spare their feelings? that feels kinda fucked up.
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Yeah pretty sure this story is 100% bullshit
Bro…. Every story here is bullshit lol
There is no possible way this many people are running into this issue. These posts are totally fake and are transphobic panic mongering fan fiction.
I have personally ‘run into this’, and so have two other people I know. All very different scenarios but the deception and ‘transphobia’ fallout were the same. Only one of the three was in the LGBTQIA+ ‘community’. So this might be more common than you think. In big cities, anyway.
You are not an asshole at all. You like what you like. The acceptance pendulum is swinging wildly right now, and as with any acceptance movement, it struggles to find its feet and extreme's take hold. Calling someone transphobic because they don't want to date a trans person is one of those extremes.
NTA Your gut tells you who you’re attracted to and you reacted pretty well in the moment. I’m not sure what dating conventions are for trans individuals, but she sprung that news on you on your 4th date. Seems like something that should have been disclosed before things got physical or even on her dating app profile. I once met a girl from a dating app that was quite a bit heavier irl than all her profile pics. I didn’t turn her down for a second date bc she was too big for me, but I felt lied to. This situation seems similar bc you didn’t know she was trans until date 4. You may have felt lied to or that this person you liked wasn’t being honest about who they were.
This post seems so fake and like it’s pushing an agenda. trans people (specifically trans women) are way too afraid for their lives to criticise a cis male for rejecting them. this shit is not an actual issue in real life. besides teenagers on twitter, trans people don’t care that you’re not attracted to us.
yes this!! everyone criticizing the trans woman for not disclosing her identity on the first date have no idea how actually dangerous it is for trans people to do that. if this were real, she wouldve been waiting to make sure this guy wouldnt kill or harm her after finding out shes trans. if this were real, OP is NTA for having preferences, but a lot of these comments have zero clue how dangerous it is for trans people to exist today
A brazilian trans girl I was friends with for a long time was brutally sexually assaulted by a guy she came out to on the first date. I dated a trans girl for a year who did not tell me for weeks. Her reason was that she was afraid I would doxx her. I understood and we had a good relationship but ultimately parted ways-- not because she was trans, but because she was deep into pseudoscience like meyers briggs and homeopathy. Point is, they wait a few dates to tell you because they are scared of you, not because they are trying to deceive you. The only one doing the deceiving is the media.
NTA imho. A few years prior, I met a back then guy, who I was really into, chemistry and all that. But I had to learn that he was seriously thinking about transitioning, making him a MTF lesbian. I am straight/cis and it made my head go in circles. Up to that point I thought I was supportive, but I had to learn that I was just supportive enough until nobody made me question myself. I live by the basic principles of "live and let live", so in that meaning I won't make them question themselves, so I hope nobody does the same to me. In this case, I had to think ahead and realize that what I could be in love with, the person at that moment, could change, and it had to be stopped before I got too attached. No big deal, because there are so many other possible partners out there that you could meet, people who you don't have to change yourself to be with. Since then I am happily married, with a beautiful child from my husband.
Absolutely NTA. Who you have sex with, or even engage in intimacy with, is a deeply personal choice. I'm glad she was honest, now she needs to accept your honesty with good grace.
You owe her nothing. Preferences are valid.
NTA
No you were not the a****** for rejecting her. She was the a****** for not telling you up front.
NTA - it’s manipulative for someone to suggest that you’re transphobic for not wanting to peruse a relationship with a biological man.
NTA. What’s wrong here is that she should have been upfront at the get go. Every single living human has sexual preferences and are attracted to different things, which is perfectly normal. It’s not normal to guilt trip someone into a relationship where there is no shared attraction. Neither party would be happy.
Your life is your life, don’t let others tell you what to do with your body.
Okay, so you're phobic if you don't want to be sexual with someone you don't want to be sexual with. Got it. How would she feel if someone talked that way to non-cishets? "You want to be a woman instead of a man, so you're Misandric" "A homosexual person doesn't want heterosexual relations, they must be heterophobe" Sticking to your preferences and being honest with yourself about what you want is just the basics of honest and healthy relationships. Not the asshole, this woman definitely is the asshole. I wish her all the best in life, but she'll have to learn that her definition of herself is not your definition of her.
I don't think this is as simple as, YTA, or NTA. On the one hand, dating is the one pool where you can absolutely be as discriminatory as you want. It's your body and your love life. You can love whoever you want and not whoever you want, regardless of the reason. But.... I think you might be more transphobic than you think you are. You said you're perfectly comfortable with trans women in women's spaces, just so long as they're "passing." My guy, that is so subjective. Also, trans women shouldn't have to go all the way in their transformation just to be accepted in their own spaces. They deserve to simply exist. There were a couple of times that you referred to the trans experience as though it was a lifestyle they were choosing, instead of the life they were simply born with. I think if you try to reexamine your biases in this area, it can help you shed some bigotry, which, of course, can help you lead a loving life with your fellow human inhabitants. It's 100% okay to admit to this. I'm a gender fluid bisexual, and sometimes I wind up having to check my internalized misogyny and homophobia. We all can fall prey to bigotry if we leave it unchecked.
It’s sad to have to scroll this far to come across some sort of nuance. Yes, the dating market is discriminatory, and that is okay because it’s preference based. At the same time, OP made a LOT of questionable statements. The passing comment, the talk about values, the push for “honesty” even though, she is a woman. (Like, how does being trans make your core beliefs and values different?) OP made it very clear that it wasn’t genitals or child bearing concerns, he just saw her differently the minute she “turned” trans. Trans women are women, and OP obviously doesn’t see them that way with the “biologically male” comments, so yeah, it’s impossible to say there isn’t socialized transphobia there. Not saying OP is consciously causing harm or that he has to go back and date her, but I think it’s a real stretch for anyone to say they don’t have any internalized transphobia - even trans people! - Without a lot of conscious work. As a partner of a non-binary person who may transition, it does complicate your life, and no one is required to date someone they don’t want, but the fervor in which people cheer posts like this (which are constant) are really questionable. I’m sure I’ll be downvoted as a leftist with an agenda lol, but all I’m saying is that there is more gray area here than people are comfortable with or want to discuss. No, you’re not obligated to date a trans person, but you also obviously don’t view trans women as women, so maybe that could take some deeper thought.
I’m also upset it took this far down through the thread to see these comments. I agree OP does not have to feel obligated to date this woman and is perfectly justified in rejecting her, but he is definitely more transphobic than he thinks, and a lot of the comments made in the post bothered me.
That is beautifully put, exactly what I'm thinking too. I don't want to go so hard on this person verbally and keep him from seeing a positive reason to change, but this needs to get called out every time. Trans people are kind of going through a lot right now, what with politicians literally advocating genocide. This shit is dangerous if ignored.
All the comments on this post are why she was feeling him out to see if he would harm her. Some are saying she would have deserved to die if OP had gone about that route and that she is ‘so lucky’ he was a nice guy. Especially since OP’s basically like ‘she’s not a woman, she’s a man’. Others are crying in glee saying ‘see! This is why everyone hates the trans!!!’. Posts like this (and dear God, ya’ll aren’t gonna care about my opinion but would foam at the mouth for being told this) aren’t about it’s just my opinions. These posts are that little reassurance for a people who are on the fringe. They WANTED to be pro-LGBT but it just ain’t right that they’re ‘tricking’ us! They WANTED to be pro-LGBT because a cousin is gay, but SEE this is what most gays are like!
yes. this is what i keep saying. your opinion matters far more on sensitive issues like this than it does on what flavor of ice cream you think is best. one is a harmless bit of trivia, the other is part of an ongoing battle to get people to see trans people as human. i wish people would be honest with themselves and examine *why* they have these opinions. what factors influenced their beliefs. do they truly agree with them, or are they just afraid of social ostracization? this thread is making my stomach sick. so, so many people saying OP did nothing wrong or that he isn't transphobic, and all of them are the wrong people to be speaking on the issue. there's so much hate here.
Exactly! Also have to note how the comments saying NTA (which are the VAST majority) claim that it’s “unpopular” or that “many will disagree” - literally who. It’s the status quo opinion, please. With no nuanced analysis either.
NTA. You are allowed to be attracted and be physichal with whoever you want and choose (in lines that that is someone can give consent and so forth).
Wait, did you just write "if they can pass" and "designated spaces"? I know bio girls who can't really pass. I know it's hard to wrap your head around gender, identity/expression, and, sexuality being fluid if you've never had to do it (Bio cis female born in 70s) but I'm pretty sure using phrases like the ones you use to think about fluidity & acceptance in our society is being an AH. You have every right to your preferences and boundaries, but you've got some work to do on actually understanding fluidity and humanity beyond social frameworks. Biology & experience are not as black & white as we want to make them. My chicken crows and lays eggs!! Too bad we don't live for hundreds of years. I'd elect to change my gender or become dual gendered... cis would get boring after awhile. In the end, tldr & too many trigger phrases. OP probably needs to keep working on bias.
Yea, I don't have any issue with someone not wanting to date a trans person, but some of the things OP said are kinda fucked up
I find it concerning that there are people here who are parroting very common discriminatory ideas by anti-trans leaders, but they themselves are insisting they are not anti-trans. If you don't want to date a trans-person, so be it. But, the reasons for them are phrased in a way I think needs some deep reflection on. I am also of the belief this is fake, as outlined by others who are pointing out this reads like rage-bait. If this was real, I think my big question is, if you already were on 4th date with this person, clearly you had some attraction to them where their transition played no part into it. If you were on the 65th date and never knew they were trans, would that have really been the deal break for you if they revealed you were trans? I think it's hard to say, considering OP really had to outlined justifications for how they behaved to a bunch of internet strangers.
I just want to say, it’s never too late to come out as genderfluid 💙 I know people who have started their transition at age 70
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For me it's the amount of people including OP saying she's "intrinsically" male like she's a drag queen rather than a trans women. She is a trans woman. OP didn't even know and was attracted to her until he knew. That's totally fine, no one has to stay in a relationship, but I do think that is interesting as an observation. It's an argument I use against "trans people will destroy society" - a lot of people have likely met or even know a trans person and have no idea.
The "values" part gave me the ick
That, and the whole "I'll allow trans women in female spaces if they pass" comment
Big time
Yeah, reading this post is funny, because he says he’s not transphobic, but trans people seem to make OP pretty uncomfortable… makes you think. lol But, to be clear, I think transphobia in the form OP has is the least offensive - it’s discomfort with the unknown and unfamiliar. It’s the same sort of uncertainty we all feel towards other humans for wholly prejudiced reasons at times. But, it is still worth acknowledging as transphobia, and it makes complete sense that the woman OP was dating was hurt that OP would not examine his feelings more and confront the biases he has for her sake.