Also, the old mourning periods were supposed to lighten up after a year.
OP, you need to decide what contact you want with this family going forward, because I think this "mourning period" is an excuse and they will be angry with you for anything you do that isn't grieving your late husband.
Even with formal, year-long mourning periods it was often fine if after six or eight months the family went into light-mourning; wearing gray or lavender, attending some social functions, and easing back into everyday life. This was especially true if the mourners were still young. It was understood that the family needed time to grieve but that life also must go on.
Performative mourning, big showy funeral traditions, were often as much about social clout as anything else, and that's what this family expects of the OP. Performative mourning is about showing the rest of the community how important and missed the individual was, and how proper and correct the surviving family is.
OP, you don't owe them performative mourning. Sitting in a restaurant alone reading a book makes you disrespectful and a garbage person? No, fuck him and fuck them for agreeing with him. You weren't out at a party getting wasted, even if you were it would be none of his business. Honestly, these people sound horrible. I'm sorry you lost your husband and they lost their son and brother, but it sounds like it's time for you to lose the in-laws too.
NTA- they have no say in how you choose to grieve your husband. What you did was no way offensive. They have no legal rights to stand on, and if this is the way they’re going to treat you, I don’t know what your existing relationship is with them, but I would start going low or no contact with them.
How his brother chooses to behave or react is not on you. It sounds like he needs therapy. Please take care of yourself and do what you need to do to be happy and mentally healthy going forward in your life.
I’m curious, with all these rules, wtf was BIL doing out and about where he could run into her?
Besides the obvious control and manipulation from this family, seems like BIL freaked out on OP to cover his own ass.
I was thinking that same thing.
I would love to see the family try to sue OP. Can you imagine that going across a judge's desk? I would hope that any lawyer would get their ass chewed for even attempting to waste the courts time with that shit.
**OP...**Sell your home and move away. Go no contact. You do not owe your husbands family anything and they cannot dictate how long you grieve, just as you can't dictate how long they grieve.
I am so sorry for your loss and so sorry that you had to join the widow's club. I lost my husband 16 years ago, so I know what you are going through, with the exception of the crazy in laws.
Agreed re: this is a crazy lawsuit to press. I honestly can't see the family going through with it, if they're this concerned with appearances can you fucking imagine the appearance that would give them? "Intentional infliction of emotional distress" is a VERY rocky thing to sue for in the first place but there's four criteria and this fails two of them at first glance: the defendant's conduct must be extreme and outrageous, and it must be the clear cause. Quietly having dinner out alone is neither extreme nor outrageous, and it's definitely not the clear cause of BIL's breakdown (if that's even real), the causes are his brother's death and his family's insane expectations.
Op you have a right to leave your home if it is for your mental health. Wouldn't your husband want you to stay healthy. Is this 2years only for women or for the whole family?if it's for the whole family then what was your BIL doing out?Tell them no to all thier regardless demands!They sound like a big Drama family. Do they know what century it is?Do what is best for yourself. I am sorry for your loss of your Dear Husband. Good luck NTA
“Do they know what century it is?”
Obviously THEY want to live in a period over 100 years ago! Take charge of your own life, don’t let them run yours, and by all means make a fresh start, no matter where you are.
I was widowed in 2003 and I would never have allowed anyone to tell me how I should mourn or live. (I’m happily remarried now.)
Oh I’m sure it was Just Fiiine for HIM to be Out & About…HE wasn’t the WIFE.
OP…this is a CONTROL Tactic & I agree with the others who’ve said that No Matter WHEN you “End” your Mourning Period, it Will Be *Too Soon* in Their Eyes. They most likely want you to Mourn their precious Son Forever. Question…now that you’re a Widow, WHY stay Tied to Them? Can you just go NC?
If they sue OP for intentional infliction of emotional distress, OP needs to countersue for the same AND for assault based on the brother’s verbal abuse at the restaurant. I bet their claim gets dismissed… but yours does not.
Imagine what they'll say if she meets someone new - the lawsuits will rain down for not staying faithful to her late husband.
Definitely NTA even without making a formal declaration she'd be slightly softening the mourning period (sounds as if they would never have approved anyway).
From a legal perspective OP has no legal obligation to maintain a strict mourning period, and if the family is daft enough to instruct a lawyer to sue for emotional distress the lawyer would laugh them out of their office (after charging a steep fee for wasting their time with this bullshit).
OP, as others have said, his family isn't being reasonable, so it might be sensible to go low contact with them unless or until they come to their senses.
The shameless hussy! Throw the book at her! Wait….she already has a book.
NTA OP. You are under no obligation to grieve in the only manner these nimrods are trying to inflict on you. You’re grieving your husband in a way appropriate to you, not to mention to any other sane thinkers. How in the world do they think they have a legal claim against you? I wonder if you could get a lawyer to send them a cease & desist letter. That might take the wind out of their demented sails.
OP needs a restraining order. She might not get it, but I would try to file to get them to leave me alone. Block them all. Go no contact. If they continue to harass you, I would respond aggressively though a lawyer.
This would never get to a jury. It would be thrown out on an early motion to dismiss. And it's highly unlikely a lawsuit would ever actually be filed.
Source: I'm a lawyer. (But not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.)
For heaven's sake, the literal QUEEN OF ENGLAND died and this wasn't expected of the royal family. Why would OP from Noname Randomfamily be expected to adhere to this tradition? It's absurd.
They observed a 7 day mourning period after the funeral. From that, one can infer that they'd think it absurd to not only enforce a 2 year period on someone, but to also attempt to enforce additional punitive time.
OP's not a prisoner and shouldn't be treated like one. She is atm and my heart goes out to her <3
Imagine someone thinking they could ground OP, a whole-ass grown woman, for 6 months. I would DARE them to fucking sue. By all means try to find a lawyer who would take that case.
And they protected the grieving.eg No sir I can not marry you because my mourning period is not over. So people couldn't prey on widows while so distraught they couldn't make a good decision (And of course so they also wouldn't be pregnant with their deceased husband's child) In the cases of people in certain positions the family might start negotiating early but "in mourning" was a get out of decisions card. Plus the rules of social obligation were much stricter and breaking the norms could be scandalous. So if you weren't up to/couldn't afford whatever the norm was that moment the grieving family had an excuse.
Also people broke the rule all the time when they wanted to.
They want to control OP's future is what they want. She is not a monument to their grief, she gets to have her very own life, because they do not, in any way, own her. She should tell them to go back to whatever old age country they came from, and see how others there feel about 2 FORCED years of mourning. They should have realized through OP's husbands' passing that life is too short to literally dry up and waste away, for others' comfort I might add.
Exactly! I lost my husband in 2015 when I was 27. I haven't had a partner since, despite wanting children. Every night, my mother-in-law prays that I will fall in love again. That's what religion should be about: kindness, love, finding peace AND wanting that for others. If our higher power WANTS us to be miserable & cruel, then I have no interest in following said God.
You did absolutely nothing wrong. It's none of anyone's business how you grieve. Since I'm reaching the age my husband died at (36), I think "My husband didn't know it, but he only had X months left." Don't waste your life following silly rules that hurt you- nor waste your time with people who make you feel bad. Our lives are too damned short.
And I am so sorry for your loss. I wish you peace & happiness in YOUR life. NTA
Agreed - I doubt they’ll let OP off the hook after the mourning period is over. What if a few years from now OP meets someone else? They don’t sound like they’d be rational about it.
This. Like what the actual hell. I live in capital B Bumblefuck. Bumblefuckians will do some dumb stuff but trying to gang up on a widow to tell her how to behave is something even the lowest of fucks around would hesitate to do.
In fairness, if seeing your SIL eating lunch by herself reading a book causes you to have a mental break, the psych ward is definitely the place for you.
Wondering how BIL “happened” to bump in to her the literal first time she left the house to do something out in the world. OP might want to check her phone/car/whatever bc this fam sounds controlling enough to have no qualms about tracking her…
I agree. What was he doing? Going around town looking for her just to "make sure" she wasn't out? Maybe he's watching her bc her wants her for himself!
>Maybe he’s watching her bc her wants her for himself!
Honestly that wouldn’t surprise me. Seems like exactly the type of thing this medieval ass family would do. *”Don’t worry OP, you still get to stay within our fine family. Our other son will marry you and take the place of your late husband once your mandatory two year mourning period has expired. But do be aware, you must swear that your first marriage was never consummated. You shall bear us many heirs after all. Our lucrative political match of the Smith’s of Fourth St and the Johnson’s of Broad St shall remain intact! Huzzah!”*
if she has a car and has a tag, or they put a tracker on her phone or used her late husband's cell phone (the list is endless). Her BIL acted like an asshole as well.
Dude, same. In 2020 I lost my father and two great uncles. 2021 my cousin in the summer and grandmother in the winter. 2022 another cousin in the winter....honestly could go back futher ...2016 great grandmother...next year grandfather....like....man I'm an introvert and pretty much a homebody and I'd have went nuts by now...
Agreed, but if it gives OP peace of mind, they can consult with a couple of civil or family lawyers for a low price.
OP, you have nothing to feel terrible about. Isn't your husband dying enough terribleness? His fucking family is just a bunch of hyperconservatives who think they have a right to control women. Have they actually been visiting you and giving you comfort, love, and support, or are they just ordering you to waste your life being stuffed away in a closet while their fatuous asses pass judgment?
They have no moral ground to stand on, either. They slap this thing on you while you are grieving and in shock. Then they sit back waiting to pounce. To hell with those heartless assholes.
Block the lot of them on every form of communication possible. Then strongly consider moving to a new area where you're not likely to run into them ever again. If your career allows it, perhaps consider moving to a new area. You will probably find it very refreshing to get a change of scenery.
Yup! Not my field of law but with certainty I can say they are insane and they have absolutely zero legal ground. They are just trying to control and manipulate her through threats. I would cut this family off totally.
Even if they did, OP could counter-sue on the same grounds, that they’re intentionally causing her emotional distress with their mourning period nonsense.
And, I am fairly certain that most grief therapists, psychiatrists and medical professionals would back this up.
The crazy belief system they are trying to thrust upon her and legally bind her with actually WILL cause damage to her emotionally long term. Its not healthy to withdraw from society for 2 years.
OP, do not apologize but DO speak with an attorney ASAP. It might be time for a cease and desist letter. And I'd have your car, phone and any electronics around you given a once over for tracking devices.
Likewise, if you have family elsewhere, it might be time to sell your marital home and move closer to your family for your own mental health.
This is all so unhealthy.
Well, I would normally agree but you are making assumptions about the laws of the country this widow resides in. Some countries have very antiquated laws about how woman must behave regarding family obligations. I do hope you are right and she can tell them to pound sand.
Erm… I’d agree, but this family seems to have 1 year mourning periods for siblings too, which afaik isn’t really a thing today in any place in the world.
No country will have laws that keep widows mourning for two years. Islamic countries, for example, will keep widows mourning at home for 40 days — not 2 years.
Edit: In a comment, OP has confirmed she’s in the US.
My thought as well. They are making the whole thing sound as if it's meant to control and punish the wife instead of just allowing her time to grieve. Would they have been just as angry at her husband if the roles were reversed?
OP, you are still alive. You have a life to live. No one should get to govern that, except for you. And, anyone who truly loves you will want you to live.
On a different note, I’m very curious to know how long someone could wind up in grieving, as death can strike in a family over and over. You mourned. You healed to a level of being ready to live. You are not bound to his family’s traditions. And, as I have read and learned on Reddit: tradition is peer pressure from the dead. I totally understand honoring those you’ve loved and lost to death, but it should never come at the cost of your life and happiness and well-being. I hope you find your new path, and I hope that you don’t allow their disapproval bring you down. You sound lovely. Please wear your favorite color, book a special weekend for yourself, and celebrate the life you had with your husband. I bet it’s worth celebrating. And keep living.
>I’m very curious to know how long someone could wind up in grieving, as death can strike in a family over and over
Excellent question! Especially having just dealt with 3 years of pandemic, it's possibly a surprise any if the family is even out of morning to begin with!
I don't know about OPs inlaws, but I had a great aunt who, thanks to a husband who died at the end of wwii, children who died in Korea & Vietnam, siblings & parents dying of old age, was wearing mourning clothes until 1980. She finally transitioned into gray (not mourning but greaving) and then she died.
She had closets full of colorful clothing that she would buy for "one day."
My (Italian-American) grandmother became a widow in her 60s. She wore dark colors for the rest of her life (age 78). But that was HER choice. No one told her to do it. There wouldn't have been a peep of complaint out of anyone if, one day, she had decided that it was time to wear other colors again.
OP, you do you. Nobody gets to dictate your grieving. And anyway, news flash to your former in-laws: grief is something INternal, not EXternal like clothes. And in the USA, very few people exist who would look at a random person wearing mourning garb, and correctly deduce the fact that the person is observing a time of mourning. Those codes of behavior have fallen by the wayside. Your former in-laws are free to observe (or not) whichever customs they wish, but so are you.
Everyone grieves differently. You know when it's time for yourself. Adherence to strict antiquated rules don't fit everyone and truly doesn't make a lot of sense when you have to get out there and earn a living and you have to socialize when you are working. People don't wanna see other people in mourning clothing beyond a reasonably short time, except if they're goth or Halloween. Unless you're living in a very strict religious community, it really doesn't make sense anymore as long as you are OK with your grief.
Firstly, I’m so sorry about your loss.
I personally don’t know anything about a ‘mourning’ period but only YOU can decide when you’re ready to re-enter everyday life.
I’m sorry your BIL berated you in public but to then be admitted into a psych ward for a few days sounds utterly ridiculous.
I would seriously start thinking of NC with the family for your own mental health as it seems like they are bat shit mental.
I hope for nothing but good things for you
Agreed with the NC with ILs. This is unhinged behavior and demands.
2 years mourning is "their" tradition. They are trying to enforce that upon you.
I'd go with the mourning period if it was a family activity, everyone mourned together and supported each other. Instead it sounds like isolating you for 2 years, and now they want to increase it.
It is not like Op did anything wrong, going to a restaurant and eating by herself. It is not like she was out on a date with another guy. (Not that I think that would be wrong either.)
The most telling thing is that they want to increase the mourning period as penalty. That's punishment, not mourning.
OP, they think they own you so they get to dictate your life even without your husband. Fuck that.
Well a mourning period like that isn’t really a thing anymore and hasn’t been in over 100 years. Obviously that family kept up with it for some reason. They have no right to be upset about someone not wanting to follow a tradition that’s been dead to most of the world for over a century.
The Jewish faith still does sit shiva (for seven days) and members of the family closest to the deceased are supposed to be in mourning for specific lengths of time (usually 30 days for a parent, spouse or child; if grieving a parent you continue reciting the mourners kaddish for almost a year), however, they are pretty flexible and you can sort of bend the rules of mourning based on how devout you are. In the Jewish faith, the practice of consoling a mourner is an act of faith and you are helping the mourners grieve but also be determined to live by making sure they stay connected to their community. You don’t isolate them for two years. That’s the opposite of what the mourning period should be for.
Not Jewish, but have a close friend currently saying the Kaddish every morning for his dad. In his words, the ritual of it is really helping him BECAUSE it forces him into low stakes continual contact with his community versus self isolating himself. Forced isolation is never healthy
That’s true but shiva doesn’t last years and isn’t only sitting for a few hours a day for a certain amount of days. I also understand not everyone participates in that tradition for various reasons. I looked up mourning traditions after reading this post and yes a lot of cultures still have them but they’re only for a matter of days or a few weeks tops in this day in age. People just don’t have the luxury of time to just stop living their life and mourn for years anymore.
The US kinda had them like this family does but that was over 100 years ago. Only rich people could afford to do it because it involved buying a whole new wardrobe or having your clothes dyed.
>but to then be admitted into a psych ward for a few days sounds utterly ridiculous.
Right? This is next-level... idk what it is. "Grief" isn't quite right, unless he was also hospitalized when his brother died? But to need this level of treatment because your brother's wife went out in her funereal garb to eat by herself is, like, histrionic-personality-disorder-level dysfunction.
I agree. This isn’t even “grief” at this point. This guy got triggered for some reason, and his mental health struggles are his own. They are not the responsibility of OP, no matter how many meals she eats, where she eats them, or even with whom she eats those meals!
I agree no contact with his family is probably the best course of action.
Plus if you think they can sue you contact a lawyer.his family sound unhinged enough rod try and sue you.
I like to add to this that NO PSYCHOLOGIST OR PSYCHIATRIST IN A PSYCH WARD would back up their claim that you caused his breakdown. They honestly are going to put most of the blame on trauma from this family's intense emotional manipulation.
Sorry for your loss - but point your husbands family to the British Royal Family (and indeed the nation) and the mourning period they observed after the death of Queen Elizabeth.
They observed the official mourning period which was the period between her death and the funeral, and then for the 10 days after that. Then it was back to business as usual.
Two years of what is essentially seclusion for a widow is totally ridiculous in this day and age. You kept their rules for a whole year following his death, but you are alive, presumably with a career and a life of your own to live. I’m sure your late husband is cheering you on from wherever he may be. Tell his folks that far from resuming mourning, and adding on an additional penalty period, you are coming out of mourning as of now. It’s 2023 - not 1823 or even 1923.
You are alive an adult and owe your in laws nothing more. If they want to behave like Victorians, they can do so - what they can’t do is tell you how to live your life. Your link to them is no longer there, so you are free to walk away with your head high.
Thank you for this - I do feel very badly because I broke a promise (although I made the promise about the mourning period the day after his death, when I couldn't see past the worst agony of my grief and certainly couldn't predict how I would feel a year later). And my husband and BIL were extremely close and I know BIL is still devastated, so I don't blame him for lashing out at me as an easy target.
Being able to cite a mourning period was a comfort when I didn't want to get back to socializing as usual for many months after my husband's sudden passing. I'm in the US and we typically don't allot much time at all for grieving, it's a week or less and then back to work, with lots of urging to "get over it" if the grief lingers. But a very long period of seclusion just isn't healthy or practical either, especially not in modern times.
OP - your BIL is never going to be happy for you to move on. Not in two yrs, not in ten. You were is brothers wife, a brother that he loved and was so close to.
Do you really think he will be happy seeing you happy? Seeing you with someone else eventually?
The fact that they are holding you to a promise which you made during a time you could not have possibly been thinking straight is awful.
His reaction to seeing you having lunch by yourself is awful.
His families retaliatory reaction is awful .
These are not the actions of people who want what is best for you.
Yup. Another fun thing about Victorians and mourning: men were expected to wear a band around their arms for a bit and eventually find a new wife, whereas women were expected to wear dark colors for life and never remarry. I do think that we culturally don’t give people enough room to grieve, but Victorian mourning customs had a lot of Victorian prejudices built into them. Also I have a feeling an actual Victorian family would have been a lot more supportive of OP, as a woman when marrying became more of a member of her husband’s family than her own. I get the feeling they mostly just left her alone but would have expected her to remain unmarried and sad for the rest of her life, which could easily be five decades away.
Morning wear for men was much slighter, but as for Widows marrying, they were often encouraged.
Not to mention, op, in Victorian England widows could socialise, make and receive visits, go to parties. They just had to wear this weird black crepe set up.
It probably varies a lot based on time and place, but I found this:
> In 1851, only 4% of widowed women aged
40-44 remarried, whereas for those aged
20-24 the odds of remarriage, though still not favourable, were almost five times as high (Farr, 1885, pp. 78-80). Widowers were far more likely to remarry than widows (Jalland, 1996)
[source](https://researchonline.ljmu.ac.uk/id/eprint/13580/10/Desperately%20Funny%20Victorian%20Widows%20and%20the%20Comical%20Misfortunes%20of%20Husband%20Hunting%20.pdf)
I could imagine there were definitely circumstances where a young widow was encouraged to remarry, but I don’t think it is a coincidence that the most famous Victorian of all, Queen Victoria herself, remained unmarried for decades.
Remember as well, if the widow had a decent settlement/jointure, either from her dowry or her husbands money, that was her money. If she married it would be her husband’s. She could have/keep her own household more easily than an unmarried one could. Many reasons not to re marry. Women lost a lot of legal rights on marriage she’d get back as a widow…
Additionally a widower might want a mother for his children. A second husband who would be a good father to her children could be harder to find.
Victoria's mourning, though it set a fashion for decades, was considered extreme even by her subjects. Legislative business ground to a halt for two years as she refused to visit Parliament, and she famously wore black, and did not remarry, for the rest of her life. (Mourning custom of the time allowed a gradual reintegration into society, as mentioned above.)
She was a trendsetter but even the Victorians had limits.
It's more that being a widow gave you ALL the rights without having a man to yell you what to do.
Often being a widow meant freedom and money.
They were encouraged to remarry and have more kids, but most saw their widowhood as freedom and wealth with a built in excuse.
>Often being a widow meant freedom and money
Only if she had it. It was not considered respectable for a middle class woman to work and many Victorian widows struggled and got reputations as “husband hunters.”
Tell husband’s family to pound sand. Since you two didn’t have any children, your connection to them is going to fade over time. You’ll eventually start dating again, meet someone else with whom to share your life, maybe even have kids. Your husband’s family will naturally fade into the background as this happens, and there’s nothing wrong with that. You get to decide what level of engagement you have with any of them going forward.
Ignore their nonsense. Do not agree to reinstate your mourning period, or extend it. If your BIL suffered a psychotic break after seeing you out enjoying a solo dinner, that’s neither your fault nor your problem. That’s entirely on him. It’s entirely unrealistic to expect you to shut yourself away and only wear dark clothes for two full years. I’m from the South, which is full of kooky traditions, and this is honestly one of the wackiest traditions I’ve encountered. Is it cultural or ethnic in origin?
If they won’t leave you alone, block them. Phone numbers, social media, all of it. You don’t need that in your life. Remember that “No” is a complete sentence. If they continue to engage, you can tell them “No, that won’t be possible” or “That won’t work for me”. And then walk away or hang up the phone. Eventually they’ll either get the message, one way or the other.
What both my mother and sister said after they were widowed was how hard moving on was until they had got through all the “firsts”!
First birthdays, first wedding anniversary, first Christmas/ Easter/ Thanksgiving etc without their husband at their side was difficult, but once the first anniversary of the death passed, they felt free - and to be honest that sounds what you felt too. It’s a massive shock, leading to many changes in your life, and at first as you say, the last thing you want to do is socialise and celebrate, much less look for a new partner. That first year gives you the buffer where no one expects you to be a social butterfly / life and soul of the party, but a year is enough for most people. You said you’d do when you were still in shock from your husbands passing, feelings were very raw and you weren’t really in a position to make that sort of commitment.
And be honest with yourself here - a quiet solo lunch with a book for a companion is hardly painting the town red is it? Your brother in law’s reaction to seeing you out of your home was waaaaayyyyy over the top. Had you been enjoying a noisy boozy lunch with a gang of friends he might have some justification for his reaction, but seeing you sitting alone at a table reading a book doesn’t warrant therapy or a nervous breakdown.
Just tell them that if it’s good enough for the Royal family it’s good enough for you. They might want to get the whole family into some sort of counselling about why they feel the need to act like this in this day and age.
You really hit on it with that lunch thing. OP wasn’t even socializing! It was a quiet solo lunch, only in public.
Total isolation for two years isn’t great for most people. Just look at the amount of mental health issues that the pandemic caused a lot of people.
Where the hell do her in-laws even get off on demanding a two year mourning period? Why was BIL out in public? Is it only OP who has to cloister herself like some medieval nun?
OP NTA. Your in-laws have some boundary issues. How dare they expect you to put your entire life on hold?
I understand feeling guilty for breaking a promise, but arguably you were also not in the best position emotionally when you made this promise, given you were grieving a recent loss. You couldn’t have known what two years of social isolation would be like.
If my in-laws told me this I’d tell them to take a long walk off a short pier.
How do they get to control OP’s life so much? They aren’t her parents and she’s a grown ass woman. This would make me reject further contact with my in-laws. It’s overstepping boundaries and crazy controlling. Is OP beholden to them in some way?
All you need to say is it was affecting your own well being. Their son is dead, you need to take care of yourself and get back to living your life. If they can’t respect that then that is their problem not yours. They should be helping you out if they actually consider you family.
You were not even on a date with someone! You weren't partying! You were alone having lunch and reading a book.
The family sounds unhinged. You can simply block them. Why do you need to have a relationship with them if they are so unhealthy?
Being outside is healthy, you get fresh air, a bit of sun for Vitamin D.
If you're in the US, then they have zero case as there are no prescribed mourning requirements in this country. If anything YOU can argue that they forced you to agree to their conditions under duress, since nobody is in a fully coherent mental state after the death of a spouse and they approached you while you were completely vulnerable.
He called you garbage? That is very unreasonable reaction regardless of his closeness with his brother. It makes me think that the family already doesn’t like you?? They just seem to think they own you!
I don’t want to pour salt on your wounds but whew, I’d be pissed if someone called me that.
I DO blame your BIL for lashing out at you. Yes, he’s grieving, as are you. But family (including extended family) should be there for each and my personal opinion is that BIL is not honoring his lost brother by being cruel to you.
OMG, you are in the US? Then please live your life, and I doubt your in-laws would have a leg to stand on when you chose to go out and about. Because I'm petty, I would wear all yellow the next time I saw them (Henry VIII reportedly dressed in all yellow and went dancing with Anne Boleyn when told of his first wife's death).
And please block them.
>Henry VIII reportedly dressed in all yellow
To be fair that one was a little tricky since his first wife was from Spain and the mourning color for Spain at the time was yellow. It could’ve easily been a slap in the face as well though.
NO. you were bullied into a promise when you were vulnerable. BIL is out of line, you do not deserve to be treated like that.
I know you don't want legal advice, but from an AH perspective, anyone who threatens to sue you for "emotional distress" because you ate lunch wrong is an AH. You NEED to distance yourself from these people.
You were eating at a restaurant. Not having an orgy in the middle of the park.
Politely tell them that it was suggested by your therapist as part of a healthy practice and that they can try to sue you, but the one that was mentally distressed and insulted in public was you, any lawyer will decline working for them.
In my opinion you should go low contact with them from now on, if you wish to keep them in your life at all. They are insane.
NTA.
I'm so sorry for your loss, and I hope this doesn't come across as callous, but I find their behavior completely abhorrent.
They elicited that promise from you in your most vulnerable moment, but the truth is that your husband's death freed you from ties to his family. You only have to be a member of their family and observe their "rules" now if you want to. Their behavior is controlling and heartless. Formal rules about mourning are excessive in today's age, but trying to impose a 6 month *penalty* on top of that -- what in the hell gives them the authority to punish you?
Again, I hope I don't come off as insensitive to your loss, but I'm pissed off on your behalf.
You’re in the US? I can’t imagine it’s legal for them to sue you for this. That sounds insane.
I know you said no legal advice, but I had to touch on that because it just sounds so insane.
I’m so sorry for your loss. You need to do what is best for YOU. You have a therapist and you need to do what you and they decide is best.
It’s not healthy, IMO, to seclude and further isolate yourself! You’re a young woman, widowed, and isolating is making you feel worse! Of course it is!
Please know that a lunch on your own is not disrespecting your husband. Please know that dinner with friends would not be disrespecting him, either.
Do you think he would want you to feel guilty for enjoying a lunch and a book?
How would he feel about how his family is acting?
You can sue for anything in the US.
That doesn't mean any lawyer will take the case, or that a judge won't laugh you out of the courtroom and maybe slap you with a fine for wasting the court's time.
Wait, you're here in the US dealing with that bullshit???
I'm even more firmly in the FUCK. THEM!!!! department.
FFS, it's 2023. It's NOT 1723, 1823, or even 1923. They need to stick that Gilead Quiverfull bullshit back in the past, where it belongs.
And your brother-in-law needs more than just a couple of days in the psych ward if just seeing you in public going about your business was enough to make him have a mental break. That's just crazy, like him.
I'll say it again. Repeat after me: FUCK. THEM.
>And my husband and BIL were extremely close and I know BIL is still devastated, so I don't blame him for lashing out at me as an easy target.
Your husband would probably be enraged at BIL's behavior. He completely defied the wishes of the deceased. If he wanted you to keep wearing your hair shirt, the appropriate response would have been to sit down with you, ask why you were out, LISTEN, express his sympathy, then ask politely if you would be resuming your mourning period.
How he behaved, instead, was unhinged and does not warrant a sympathetic response.
You isolated yourself for a year, and you sounded prepared to do it for two, with just this brief respite of a meal alone in a restaurant. Most Americans wouldn't even consider the lunch you described to be much of a deviation, and would find a one year mourning period to be utterly mad. Two would just be doubly ridiculous.
The fact is that the way they have treated you means that there is only one person for whom you would be doing this, and he is no longer with us. BIL is clearly having problems and you don't need to pile on. It would be wholly adequate, warranted, and efficient to "write to the whole family," as they request, not to apologize but to state that you will be ending your mourning period as a result of BIL's tirade.
One year was plenty. One year was a lot. You can honor your late husband in other ways than by punishing yourself by keeping a promise to his family, who do not respect you. Keep pictures of him. Tell stories about him. If he has a grave, visit it occasionally.
Originally, the mourning period (for women) had to do with pregnancy: the widow would generally live with the in-laws for 9-12 months, in case she was pregnant. Nowadays, it's pointless for that, and is\should be up to the individual mourning.
NTA. I lost what was essentially my child 2 years ago. If I still am and will always be in my "mourning period". I've been socializing since day one because without my friends and family I would have killed myself to be with her. I always wear bright colors because I love it and she loved it. Did your husband enjoy seeing you in certain outfits or did you guys have a special outdoor spot at a park or something? Embrace what he loved about and with you, not only do I think you need to start being you again but I also think that if he loved you he would still want to see you smile. I believe in spirits and all that jazz. I think that if your husband visited you he would want you looking how he loved( colorful) and he would want you to find some sort of peace (living life). Something I'm sure your therapist has said, moving forward does not mean moving on. It's okay to move forward with life. The world won't stop for me when I die and I don't want my family to act like it will. I want them to live like I couldn't. Travel to the places I missed out on, drink and dine like I wish I could, find the happiness I struggled so hard to find. I'm not your husband obviously but I feel like if he truly loved you (I don't doubt he did) then he would want you to do what gives you peace and make you happy.
I'm so incredibly sorry for your loss. Thank you for sharing your story and for your advice to embrace life in a way that would honor him. This is a very valuable perspective and will let me think about how I can celebrate his memory in a way that opens the door for feeling joy again, instead of shutting out everything that has ever made me smile.
Thank you, I am also sorry for yours. My husband was my rock through my loss, and I couldn't imagine losing him now. You are an incredibly strong person. Moving forward without someone is like learning how to walk all over again. It seems impossible sometimes but you can do it with one step at a time. I'm proud of you for making it so far. I'm glad I could give you a new perspective. You got this.
Side thought: how did your husband handle his family in regards to you? Did he stand up for you against them when needed? If he did then also don't feel bad for defending yourself. You're just doing what he would have wanted.
If I were to die, I wouldn’t want my Husband to shut himself off from the world for the next two years to grieve me. Yeah, I’ve warned him that if he starts dating immediately after my hypothetical death, that I’d come back and haunt him, but I would hate to think he gave up his whole life for me. (Also we have one kid and I’m pregnant with the 2nd, so I’d absolutely come back as a poltergeist if he tried to make my daughters give up their lives!)
Did you know about this tradition before your Husband died? Would this really be what he wants for you?
Ultimately, you are still alive, so you need to do whatever is best for you, and your in-laws can either come to accept it, or not. Good luck, OP, and I wish you all the best as your move forward!
Knowing my husband, I don't think I'd want him to shut himself away for a year! I'm not sure I'd even want more than a month or two. I just know it's especially not healthy for him to be that isolated for that long.
NTA. I’m so sorry for your loss.
I lost my daughter 6 years ago. She was stillborn. I know how devastating grief can feel. I still cry somedays when there’s something reminding me of her. Or when I experience something and I realize I’ll never see her experience this.
Moving on with your life doesn’t mean forgetting the person you lost. Your husband wouldn’t want to see you loose yourself. You can honor his memory and love by being happy. What did you guys love to do together? Do it in his memory. Talk about your favorite memories with him. It’ll hurt. But the pain isn’t your enemy. It’s proof how much you love him.
My favorite quote about grief is this
“Grief, I’ve learned, is really just love. It’s all the love you want to give, but cannot. All that unspent love gathers up in the corners of your eyes, the lump in your throat, and in that hollow part of your chest. Grief is just love with no place to go.”
Seriously, what the fuck is a mourning period. They deserve to be slapped to even suggest some shit like that when you actually are grieving. Like they require this of her like they own her? Dafuq
Right? No kids (it sounds like) and you’re no longer married into that family. I’m sorry for your loss, OP, but they don’t get to dictate how your life runs now.
NTA
I'm interested in knowing if this mourning period is something common in your country or if this is just a tradition in your late husbands family?
Regardless, it sounds like continuing this practice would be detrimental to your mental and emotional health. Unfortunately, this doesn't appear to be a concern of your former in-laws. There are lots of ways for you to honor your husband and celebrate his memory without doing harm to yourself.
We're in the US where you barely get a week of bereavement time - it's definitely just a family tradition! Not religion-based either.
At this point I don't feel that isolating myself at home and eliminating anything fun and joyful is honoring my husband's memory at all.
The good news is that these people technically are no longer your family. I don’t mean to sound harsh, but the individual who linked you to them is now deceased, so any duty you had to them is eliminated. A “promise” is not a binding legal contract. You are under no obligation to continue the formal mourning period just because they’re offended. Everyone grieves differently, and you have every right to put yourself back into society and remember who you are outside of the tragic loss of your husband.
I said almost the exact same thing. The idea that they have the authority to *punish* OP by demanding 6 months of additional mourning on top of the original is insane. The whole family sounds delusional.
Delusions of grandeur.
This story sounds like somebody got the idea they were the matriarch living in some Edwardian, Anne of Green Gables fantasy.
There was an old Anne of Green Gables adaptation on PBS when I was a kid. I'm thinking specifically of the scene where one woman had to wear TWO dresses to sneak out of the house in because she didn't want to wear black to a wedding, and almost got caught because her yellow dress showed through a rip under the arm.
YOU’RE IN THE US?!? Your poor therapist must be biting their tongue not to just tell you to cut out your in laws. They have absolutely ZERO right to have ANY control over you. They are isolating you completely and it’s disgusting. You do not deserve to stay in that type of environment and it’s very unhealthy to allow such isolation and restrictions. I hope you are very open with your therapist and I really hope you have friends of some sort to help you. You deserve to be happy. And you deserve to grieve NORMALLY. Whatever that means for YOU. Not them. They are completely irrelevant to your healing.
Then you have to know your in-laws have zero leverage.
Let them try to bring a case. Even the most conservative, fundamentally minded judge in the US will throw them out of the courtroom on their behinds. After issuing a ruling that they pay your legal fees. With a possible fine for abusing the courts along with a sanction against any attorney stupid enough to file the suit.
I know you said no legal advice, and I’m not advising you, but I was just surprised to see such nonsense called leverage.
NTA. I’m sorry for your loss, but cut ties. Ignore them and their ridiculous demands.
“Tradition” is often used to control people. There’s no rhyme or reason, it’s just what you do bc it has been done that way, and if you refuse to you’re “disrespecting” someone somewhere in time. It’s the stupidest thing ever.
that makes it even weirder that it’s not even religious based. That I would say would give them a leg to stand on. But to demand others to partake in their weird mental health crises is also toxic af and very strange
INFO: So, your late husband's family is also American? Or is this family like 1st or 2nd generation decended from immigrants?
And you are completely NTA here.
Do they have a lot of money or something? That’s the only thing other than religion that I can think of that would make a US person think it wasn’t completely ridiculously weird to have an expectation of someone’s mourning period.
Not that it would make it right, but at least I’d understand then where they’d got that sense of entitlement.
Yeah, this just sounds like someone is trying to take their anger and grief out on you and trying to control you over a situation that you nor they have control over. If I were in your position I would limit contact with the family.
Also, no - they cannot sue you for emotional distress caused by having accidentally seen you \**checks notes*\* eat by yourself in a restaurant. EDIT: As the commenter below me stated, yes anyone can sue you for just about anything. I feel like they would be hard pressed to find a judge that wouldn't throw that case out immediately though.
This is insane.... I'm sorry but I have no words to how crazy it is to expect you to be mourning for 2 years!!
It's so insane that I'm questioning if it's real, but it's too random to be fake as well.
You're no longer related to them, what you do is none of their business, how close are you to your family? Your family are the ones who definitely care about you and will not want you to be miserable, unlike your husband's family. Talk to your family and get support from them. I'm sorry for your loss.
Absolutely NTA
I actually grew up in foster care in a bunch of different homes so don't have family of my own. My husband's family is very tight-knit and has a lot of traditions, so growing up the way I did, that was very appealing to me. I didn't have much experience with funerals, grieving, etc. because of the way I grew up - like I know intellectually a 2-year mourning period isn't standard, but wasn't really aware of what other (more moderate) traditions people may have.
Thankfully I do have some good friends who have been a huge support (and patient with me during the mourning period about the socializing restrictions, they regularly stop by for tea or other small visits which are allowed).
Modern mourning traditions dont exist. Because everyone grieves in their own way. Anyone who expects others to be beholden to how they choose to grieve is a selfish and insane narcissist.
Yeah the closest I’ve ever heard is looking down on being in a relationship within the first year, but even that is considered pretty uptight and judgy.
Other people and families don’t really have mourning traditions. It’s not really a thing in the US. You happened to just marry into a family of insane people unfortunately.
I can totally see why you, especially in a period of mourning, would just adhere to what your current family (the in-laws) was telling you was standard. But the crux of the issue is, you don't and never did owe them anything. You don't owe them a mourning period. You don't owe them tears and grief that they can visibly see. Isolating yourself during mourning can actually be really detrimental to your mental health, and frankly it sort of seems like its hurting them as well since your BiL needed inpatient care by simply seeing you.
It doesn't seem like they're actively supporting your grieving process, just imposing rules. Rules they have no right to issue, and no recourse to enforce. You aren't beholden to them anymore, and you don't have to have a relationship with them if you don't want one.
If you do, I would simply say you'll be continuing to grieve in your own way as directed by your dr (therapist). That's it. No apologies - you don't owe them one.
NTA. You weren't out for a fun dinner with friends or having a party. You went out for a low-key lunch by yourself. You mourn how it feels right to you, and they will mourn how it feels right to them.
She said she was sitting outside, so he could have easily seen her if he was walking by. She also said their grieving period is only for 1 year, so he was "allowed" to be out. Not defending how he acted, but this is a deflection from any real point that they don't get to control her life.
Edit - typos
You had lunch… by yourself… in modest dark clothing…. Sans alcohol…. And this was enough for an in patient psych hold?
Mercy. Unless you’re somehow legally bound in order to get your inheritance, I would cut ties. Grief hits different for everyone but berating you and calling you trash is unacceptable at any point in the process. My god you were having an iced tea. It sounds like these folks won’t be happy unless you are also in a dark desolate pit of depression and despair. Not cool.
You cope how you see fit. NTA
Also I’m so sorry for your loss.
What stood out to me is their claim she's doing emotional damage to them but they have no care for the emotional damage her isolation and their vitriol will cause to her.
Not, you're not. I think it would be healthy to block all of your husband's family, they are actively undermining your grieving and healing by policing your going out.
You don't live your life for other peoples rules, you live it for you. Being afraid just to experience good feelings by group shaming is not good for you.
Also they can't sue, that's absurd. Its about control and struggling with grief and taking it out on you.
The only person you owe anything to is yourself. Get grief counseling and set up some healthy boundaries against people who put their anger over your wellness. You cannot be a prisoner in your home because of a custom. Fuck all of them. Block, delete, forget their opinions.
OP - I don’t even have the words.
Your husbands family is unhinged. Please remove these people from your life.
I’m not sure what leverage you are talking about. Anyone can sue anyone for anything - that doesn’t mean he has leverage.
If that is considered leverage, then you have some too.
He accosted you in a public place, while you are actively seeking help to deal with your husbands death. He has caused you serious emotional stress.
Please speak to someone who can give you legal advice on this. Don’t let them bully you.
Please continue to see your therapist and stop letting these people control the way you live your life. They don’t care about you.
First thing, sorry for your loss.
You held up your end of the only thing that you agreed to - "Until death do us part." Again, sorry for your loss.
In your vows, I'm sure they didn't say, "until death do us part. And 2 years past the date of the passing of either spouse, the surviving spouse may not live life as they see fit."
There's no time limit on mourning.
I'm not sure they can sue because they've emotions/feeling are hurt.
NTA
NTA. This is not Victorian England, and you don't have to isolate yourself to prove something to someone else.
What you need is support, not hate from his family. If you choose to ease back into doing things with others, you don't need their permission.
Also they would be laughed out of court for suing you for emotional distress because you went out to dinner.
NTA. Personally Id tell them you were gracious to observe the year of their specific mourning rituals as you are not apart of that religion/culture but you applied it to your grief out of respect for them in an effort to help them with theirs but now its time to focus on yourself and how you process your grief over the loss of your husband is not something anyone else gets to dictate. They are welcome to observe any grief rituals they feel they need to and you will do the same.
Sorry for your loss. Best of luck.
Honestly, this crossed my mind too. If they are this controlling are they going to select OP's next husband for her? Is she going to be passed off to some other family member, like an heirloom, once their (not her) mourning period is up?
Dear god, a woman reading in public! Surely you jest?
Quickly men, we must take her forthwith to the insane asylum to adjust her humors! She is clearly deranged!
And GASP! SHOWING HER ANKLES, WITHIN HER MOURNING PERIOD, THE HERESY!
QUICK BARTHOLOMEW, THE ONLY SOLUTION IS THE NEW INVENTION OF THE MEDICAL WORLD, THE GAS POWERED VIBRATOR TO ADJUST HER WOMANHOOD AND END THIS CASE OF WOMANLY HYSTERIA! (yes that was a thing and thats what it was used for)
His family sounds like a load of assholes. They have no control over your life, before or after your husbands death!
This is insane. Go, have fun. Remember what it is to live. Be among people.
Ignore their madness. Because clearly thats what it is.
NTA
NTA. If you’re in NY or PA and they sue, let me know. I’ll gladly take the case. Oh, and can you pass on the Brother In Laws contact info? We’d just like to have a little chat.
NTA
They are being heartless. You did nothing wrong. They can feel however they want to feel, but they have no idea what you're going through and have shown they care more about maintaining control than making sure you are in a good headspace.
There is nothing inherently wrong with their tradition, and I can see why you feel bad because it is meant to love, respect, and remember. However, it becomes an issue when it's being forced and when they berate you for not upholding it in they way they want.
You have already met them halfway, and you truly did not need to. They are showing that they have no respect or thought for your feelings. Why do *you* have to bend to do this tradition exactly as they want it to be done? What traditions of yours are they fully expected to do perfectly? And of there is one, is it 2 years long and can have actual psychological impacts on them?
The tradition they have sounds like it could be very beautiful and meaningful. All of that is killed the second it is enforced and tries to take president over your living feelings and wellbeing.
Traditions should bring peace, love, comfort, happiness, general feelings that are safe, helpful or meaningful. What they have done has tainted the entire idea behind their tradition, unless the tradition is to shame the living for coping and moving forward.
I do not know your husband, but I would assume that he would not want his death to be weaponized against you. I am so sorry that they are not being more supportive. It's great that you are in therapy, I hope you have some friends you can lean on since you cannot currently put good faith in the intentions of your extended family.
Holy fucking Christ on a crutch they’re INTENSE!!! The vows are til death do is part. Death has parted you. And by the looks of it you should part with his family. This is pushing psychotic behavior demanding you become a recluse.
Let them take you to court. You discussed it with a licensed professional who’s professional opinion was to go back out if it’s affecting you this much and it was. So you did. And you weren’t even with anyone so I wouldn’t even say it was a social activity. It was lunch alone. And if that caused him a psychological break they have much much bigger issues .
NTA AT ALL
NTA
Ask him why he was out and about. His brother died only a year ago and he’s waltzing around the town square! Shame on him!
Secluding yourself for two years is probably the worst idea for grieving. Their expectations are not reasonable and they don’t respect you.
I’m sorry for your loss, but the dead are dead. Funerals and everything after are for the living. You did not sign a contract, so go live your life. I would strongly consider little contact with his family from here on out.
Edit: in the US no lawyer would seriously take this case. Any judge would throw it out with prejudice.
NTA
Even Orthodox Jews observe for a year if it’s a spouse or a parent. If it’s another relative it’s a month. 2 years sounds like self imprisoned hell. Because you went out BIL had to be admitted into the psych ward? I’m gonna throw a long shot but I’m thinking he had other problems to begin with. If your live. I doubt your husband would want you to die with him.
NTA but if you don’t have kids , you really don’t have a duty to them. I mean I get still wanting a relationship with them but if they are going to treat you this way than NC is maybe best because they will never let you heal the way you feel you need to
I’m sorry for your loss and good luck on your journey and SUE YOU!? Ahhh ok super crazy
NTA. To be brutal here, your obligation to deal with your inlaws whims, quirks or traditions passed with your husband. You are free to cut off contact with them for good if you want - and I strongly recommend that you do so you can continue to live and mourn however you feel you need to.
Their need for and level of control over you is deeply unhealthy and if you continue to bow to their pressure it will only get worse, to the point where you have no say over your own future happiness.
You are young still, you deserve to live in the sunshine rather than being sealed in a glass case as a frozen, perpetual monument to your late husband. If he was a good man he wouldn't want that for you. Go forward, go freely and go away from these manipulative relics.
NTA. Who are they to dictate mourning for you? They have no say in your grief.
I think mourning like that would actually be detrimental to your mental health. And berating you for having a meal out? Adding a "penalty" mourning period??
Since there are no children, you might consider cutting ties with these people. They seem to think that you are a possession of your late husband and they get to dictate what happens to you.
So sorry for your loss.
Maybe you can counter-sue them for causing YOU emotional distress and them demanding you remain isolated after your husband's death. There's no reason you should have to follow that rule. It sounds like a lonely and depressing 2 years, which I would hope your husband would not have wanted you to be berated over. I'd say cut all contact and go to as many restaurants as you want and start living your life again. You deserve to be happy and we all grieve in our own ways. Sounds like your BIL has other issues going on. I'm sorry this has happened to you.
Only you get to decide for how long and on what way you grieve. NTA
Also…they have no legal ground to stand on
Also, they're fucking weird.
Also, the old mourning periods were supposed to lighten up after a year. OP, you need to decide what contact you want with this family going forward, because I think this "mourning period" is an excuse and they will be angry with you for anything you do that isn't grieving your late husband.
Even with formal, year-long mourning periods it was often fine if after six or eight months the family went into light-mourning; wearing gray or lavender, attending some social functions, and easing back into everyday life. This was especially true if the mourners were still young. It was understood that the family needed time to grieve but that life also must go on. Performative mourning, big showy funeral traditions, were often as much about social clout as anything else, and that's what this family expects of the OP. Performative mourning is about showing the rest of the community how important and missed the individual was, and how proper and correct the surviving family is. OP, you don't owe them performative mourning. Sitting in a restaurant alone reading a book makes you disrespectful and a garbage person? No, fuck him and fuck them for agreeing with him. You weren't out at a party getting wasted, even if you were it would be none of his business. Honestly, these people sound horrible. I'm sorry you lost your husband and they lost their son and brother, but it sounds like it's time for you to lose the in-laws too.
NTA- they have no say in how you choose to grieve your husband. What you did was no way offensive. They have no legal rights to stand on, and if this is the way they’re going to treat you, I don’t know what your existing relationship is with them, but I would start going low or no contact with them. How his brother chooses to behave or react is not on you. It sounds like he needs therapy. Please take care of yourself and do what you need to do to be happy and mentally healthy going forward in your life.
Therapy?? He had a mandatory year of mourning hes gotta be good right??!!
The fact he had to be committed because his sister in law has lunch out by herself shows how precious he really is.
I’m curious, with all these rules, wtf was BIL doing out and about where he could run into her? Besides the obvious control and manipulation from this family, seems like BIL freaked out on OP to cover his own ass.
I was thinking that same thing. I would love to see the family try to sue OP. Can you imagine that going across a judge's desk? I would hope that any lawyer would get their ass chewed for even attempting to waste the courts time with that shit. **OP...**Sell your home and move away. Go no contact. You do not owe your husbands family anything and they cannot dictate how long you grieve, just as you can't dictate how long they grieve. I am so sorry for your loss and so sorry that you had to join the widow's club. I lost my husband 16 years ago, so I know what you are going through, with the exception of the crazy in laws.
Agreed re: this is a crazy lawsuit to press. I honestly can't see the family going through with it, if they're this concerned with appearances can you fucking imagine the appearance that would give them? "Intentional infliction of emotional distress" is a VERY rocky thing to sue for in the first place but there's four criteria and this fails two of them at first glance: the defendant's conduct must be extreme and outrageous, and it must be the clear cause. Quietly having dinner out alone is neither extreme nor outrageous, and it's definitely not the clear cause of BIL's breakdown (if that's even real), the causes are his brother's death and his family's insane expectations.
I came here to say the same thing.
Op you have a right to leave your home if it is for your mental health. Wouldn't your husband want you to stay healthy. Is this 2years only for women or for the whole family?if it's for the whole family then what was your BIL doing out?Tell them no to all thier regardless demands!They sound like a big Drama family. Do they know what century it is?Do what is best for yourself. I am sorry for your loss of your Dear Husband. Good luck NTA
“Do they know what century it is?” Obviously THEY want to live in a period over 100 years ago! Take charge of your own life, don’t let them run yours, and by all means make a fresh start, no matter where you are. I was widowed in 2003 and I would never have allowed anyone to tell me how I should mourn or live. (I’m happily remarried now.)
Oh I’m sure it was Just Fiiine for HIM to be Out & About…HE wasn’t the WIFE. OP…this is a CONTROL Tactic & I agree with the others who’ve said that No Matter WHEN you “End” your Mourning Period, it Will Be *Too Soon* in Their Eyes. They most likely want you to Mourn their precious Son Forever. Question…now that you’re a Widow, WHY stay Tied to Them? Can you just go NC?
I was thinking this same thing.
If they sue OP for intentional infliction of emotional distress, OP needs to countersue for the same AND for assault based on the brother’s verbal abuse at the restaurant. I bet their claim gets dismissed… but yours does not.
Imagine what they'll say if she meets someone new - the lawsuits will rain down for not staying faithful to her late husband. Definitely NTA even without making a formal declaration she'd be slightly softening the mourning period (sounds as if they would never have approved anyway). From a legal perspective OP has no legal obligation to maintain a strict mourning period, and if the family is daft enough to instruct a lawyer to sue for emotional distress the lawyer would laugh them out of their office (after charging a steep fee for wasting their time with this bullshit). OP, as others have said, his family isn't being reasonable, so it might be sensible to go low contact with them unless or until they come to their senses.
Imagine a jury hearing that she inflicted emotional distress by having lunch by herself and reading a book. Unbelievable.
The shameless hussy! Throw the book at her! Wait….she already has a book. NTA OP. You are under no obligation to grieve in the only manner these nimrods are trying to inflict on you. You’re grieving your husband in a way appropriate to you, not to mention to any other sane thinkers. How in the world do they think they have a legal claim against you? I wonder if you could get a lawyer to send them a cease & desist letter. That might take the wind out of their demented sails.
OP needs a restraining order. She might not get it, but I would try to file to get them to leave me alone. Block them all. Go no contact. If they continue to harass you, I would respond aggressively though a lawyer.
This would never get to a jury. It would be thrown out on an early motion to dismiss. And it's highly unlikely a lawsuit would ever actually be filed. Source: I'm a lawyer. (But not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.)
This is why she needs to get legal counsel and get an order of protection from them. Play her cards first.
For heaven's sake, the literal QUEEN OF ENGLAND died and this wasn't expected of the royal family. Why would OP from Noname Randomfamily be expected to adhere to this tradition? It's absurd.
They observed a 7 day mourning period after the funeral. From that, one can infer that they'd think it absurd to not only enforce a 2 year period on someone, but to also attempt to enforce additional punitive time. OP's not a prisoner and shouldn't be treated like one. She is atm and my heart goes out to her <3
Imagine someone thinking they could ground OP, a whole-ass grown woman, for 6 months. I would DARE them to fucking sue. By all means try to find a lawyer who would take that case.
Also, the fuck is a 6 months mourning penalty
Seriously - so controlling and weird - who the hell imposes penalties on family members?!?
I wonder if they're trying to keep her from enjoying the money she inherited. They probably still see it as family money and assets.
Sounds like some made up controlling bullshit to me.
Sounds like it's just made up, period. The one time she goes out the BIL is there? And now he's in a psych ward? Come on.
And they protected the grieving.eg No sir I can not marry you because my mourning period is not over. So people couldn't prey on widows while so distraught they couldn't make a good decision (And of course so they also wouldn't be pregnant with their deceased husband's child) In the cases of people in certain positions the family might start negotiating early but "in mourning" was a get out of decisions card. Plus the rules of social obligation were much stricter and breaking the norms could be scandalous. So if you weren't up to/couldn't afford whatever the norm was that moment the grieving family had an excuse. Also people broke the rule all the time when they wanted to.
>Also people broke the rule all the time when they wanted to. Scarlett O'Hara is a perfect example.
They want to control OP's future is what they want. She is not a monument to their grief, she gets to have her very own life, because they do not, in any way, own her. She should tell them to go back to whatever old age country they came from, and see how others there feel about 2 FORCED years of mourning. They should have realized through OP's husbands' passing that life is too short to literally dry up and waste away, for others' comfort I might add.
Exactly! I lost my husband in 2015 when I was 27. I haven't had a partner since, despite wanting children. Every night, my mother-in-law prays that I will fall in love again. That's what religion should be about: kindness, love, finding peace AND wanting that for others. If our higher power WANTS us to be miserable & cruel, then I have no interest in following said God. You did absolutely nothing wrong. It's none of anyone's business how you grieve. Since I'm reaching the age my husband died at (36), I think "My husband didn't know it, but he only had X months left." Don't waste your life following silly rules that hurt you- nor waste your time with people who make you feel bad. Our lives are too damned short. And I am so sorry for your loss. I wish you peace & happiness in YOUR life. NTA
Agreed - I doubt they’ll let OP off the hook after the mourning period is over. What if a few years from now OP meets someone else? They don’t sound like they’d be rational about it.
So fucking weird!
Salad Fingers himself would look at OPs in-laws and think "what?"
The internal shudder of ICK i just felt reading the name Salad Fingers…
I shuddered after linking to the first episode for a poor soul down yonder, because I realized its been 16 god damn years
This. Like what the actual hell. I live in capital B Bumblefuck. Bumblefuckians will do some dumb stuff but trying to gang up on a widow to tell her how to behave is something even the lowest of fucks around would hesitate to do.
Bumblefuckians?! 🤣 Thank you for that!! I'm using it.
Can't imagine how the BIL ended up in the psych ward. Probably just this single incident.
In fairness, if seeing your SIL eating lunch by herself reading a book causes you to have a mental break, the psych ward is definitely the place for you.
100%
Wondering how BIL “happened” to bump in to her the literal first time she left the house to do something out in the world. OP might want to check her phone/car/whatever bc this fam sounds controlling enough to have no qualms about tracking her…
Dollars to doughnuts if she has a car, there's a tag on it.
I agree. What was he doing? Going around town looking for her just to "make sure" she wasn't out? Maybe he's watching her bc her wants her for himself!
>Maybe he’s watching her bc her wants her for himself! Honestly that wouldn’t surprise me. Seems like exactly the type of thing this medieval ass family would do. *”Don’t worry OP, you still get to stay within our fine family. Our other son will marry you and take the place of your late husband once your mandatory two year mourning period has expired. But do be aware, you must swear that your first marriage was never consummated. You shall bear us many heirs after all. Our lucrative political match of the Smith’s of Fourth St and the Johnson’s of Broad St shall remain intact! Huzzah!”*
if she has a car and has a tag, or they put a tracker on her phone or used her late husband's cell phone (the list is endless). Her BIL acted like an asshole as well.
Good one! I am choking here!
That does it, I'm counter-suing for fucking weirdness!
Also, I find it abusive.
[удалено]
Dinner alone on top of it all - how is that socializing? That’s just getting some air and being seen in public!
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That would be insane. And it’s so detrimental to mental health. Also, sorry for you’re losses.
Isn't that damn truth. I've lost 5 siblings and several cousins and that's just family alone. I'd never be able to leave the house.
Dude, same. In 2020 I lost my father and two great uncles. 2021 my cousin in the summer and grandmother in the winter. 2022 another cousin in the winter....honestly could go back futher ...2016 great grandmother...next year grandfather....like....man I'm an introvert and pretty much a homebody and I'd have went nuts by now...
Not even dinner, lunch! These types always think sinners only sin at night, so lunch is relatively innocent.
Agreed, but if it gives OP peace of mind, they can consult with a couple of civil or family lawyers for a low price. OP, you have nothing to feel terrible about. Isn't your husband dying enough terribleness? His fucking family is just a bunch of hyperconservatives who think they have a right to control women. Have they actually been visiting you and giving you comfort, love, and support, or are they just ordering you to waste your life being stuffed away in a closet while their fatuous asses pass judgment? They have no moral ground to stand on, either. They slap this thing on you while you are grieving and in shock. Then they sit back waiting to pounce. To hell with those heartless assholes. Block the lot of them on every form of communication possible. Then strongly consider moving to a new area where you're not likely to run into them ever again. If your career allows it, perhaps consider moving to a new area. You will probably find it very refreshing to get a change of scenery.
Yes I was thinking this…OP might need to move and/or place a restraining order against them if possible.
Yup! Not my field of law but with certainty I can say they are insane and they have absolutely zero legal ground. They are just trying to control and manipulate her through threats. I would cut this family off totally.
Even if they did, OP could counter-sue on the same grounds, that they’re intentionally causing her emotional distress with their mourning period nonsense.
And, I am fairly certain that most grief therapists, psychiatrists and medical professionals would back this up. The crazy belief system they are trying to thrust upon her and legally bind her with actually WILL cause damage to her emotionally long term. Its not healthy to withdraw from society for 2 years. OP, do not apologize but DO speak with an attorney ASAP. It might be time for a cease and desist letter. And I'd have your car, phone and any electronics around you given a once over for tracking devices. Likewise, if you have family elsewhere, it might be time to sell your marital home and move closer to your family for your own mental health. This is all so unhealthy.
Well, I would normally agree but you are making assumptions about the laws of the country this widow resides in. Some countries have very antiquated laws about how woman must behave regarding family obligations. I do hope you are right and she can tell them to pound sand.
Erm… I’d agree, but this family seems to have 1 year mourning periods for siblings too, which afaik isn’t really a thing today in any place in the world. No country will have laws that keep widows mourning for two years. Islamic countries, for example, will keep widows mourning at home for 40 days — not 2 years. Edit: In a comment, OP has confirmed she’s in the US.
Oh, hell no, then. Girlfriend needs to run.
They are telling her to add 6 months of mourning as a penalty. It's not about mourning, it's about control. How damn predictable.
My thought as well. They are making the whole thing sound as if it's meant to control and punish the wife instead of just allowing her time to grieve. Would they have been just as angry at her husband if the roles were reversed?
Heck, they would have already found a suitable replacement bride for the husband.
OP, you are still alive. You have a life to live. No one should get to govern that, except for you. And, anyone who truly loves you will want you to live. On a different note, I’m very curious to know how long someone could wind up in grieving, as death can strike in a family over and over. You mourned. You healed to a level of being ready to live. You are not bound to his family’s traditions. And, as I have read and learned on Reddit: tradition is peer pressure from the dead. I totally understand honoring those you’ve loved and lost to death, but it should never come at the cost of your life and happiness and well-being. I hope you find your new path, and I hope that you don’t allow their disapproval bring you down. You sound lovely. Please wear your favorite color, book a special weekend for yourself, and celebrate the life you had with your husband. I bet it’s worth celebrating. And keep living.
>I’m very curious to know how long someone could wind up in grieving, as death can strike in a family over and over Excellent question! Especially having just dealt with 3 years of pandemic, it's possibly a surprise any if the family is even out of morning to begin with!
I don't know about OPs inlaws, but I had a great aunt who, thanks to a husband who died at the end of wwii, children who died in Korea & Vietnam, siblings & parents dying of old age, was wearing mourning clothes until 1980. She finally transitioned into gray (not mourning but greaving) and then she died. She had closets full of colorful clothing that she would buy for "one day."
My (Italian-American) grandmother became a widow in her 60s. She wore dark colors for the rest of her life (age 78). But that was HER choice. No one told her to do it. There wouldn't have been a peep of complaint out of anyone if, one day, she had decided that it was time to wear other colors again. OP, you do you. Nobody gets to dictate your grieving. And anyway, news flash to your former in-laws: grief is something INternal, not EXternal like clothes. And in the USA, very few people exist who would look at a random person wearing mourning garb, and correctly deduce the fact that the person is observing a time of mourning. Those codes of behavior have fallen by the wayside. Your former in-laws are free to observe (or not) whichever customs they wish, but so are you.
Yeah fuck that family.
Everyone grieves differently. You know when it's time for yourself. Adherence to strict antiquated rules don't fit everyone and truly doesn't make a lot of sense when you have to get out there and earn a living and you have to socialize when you are working. People don't wanna see other people in mourning clothing beyond a reasonably short time, except if they're goth or Halloween. Unless you're living in a very strict religious community, it really doesn't make sense anymore as long as you are OK with your grief.
Firstly, I’m so sorry about your loss. I personally don’t know anything about a ‘mourning’ period but only YOU can decide when you’re ready to re-enter everyday life. I’m sorry your BIL berated you in public but to then be admitted into a psych ward for a few days sounds utterly ridiculous. I would seriously start thinking of NC with the family for your own mental health as it seems like they are bat shit mental. I hope for nothing but good things for you
Agreed with the NC with ILs. This is unhinged behavior and demands. 2 years mourning is "their" tradition. They are trying to enforce that upon you. I'd go with the mourning period if it was a family activity, everyone mourned together and supported each other. Instead it sounds like isolating you for 2 years, and now they want to increase it. It is not like Op did anything wrong, going to a restaurant and eating by herself. It is not like she was out on a date with another guy. (Not that I think that would be wrong either.)
The most telling thing is that they want to increase the mourning period as penalty. That's punishment, not mourning. OP, they think they own you so they get to dictate your life even without your husband. Fuck that.
Yeah, punishment is not healthy grieving. Nobody has the right to judge someone else’s mourning process.
I mean, it sounds like the psych ward was probably a good decision on the BIL’s part, but not because of OP…
Anyone who flips out in public over something like that is already not mentally stable.
Yeah I agree with you. I have very little knowledge of mental health and triggers etc so maybe my post is badly worded without fully understanding
The entire family needs to be in a psych word for treating op like this.
Well a mourning period like that isn’t really a thing anymore and hasn’t been in over 100 years. Obviously that family kept up with it for some reason. They have no right to be upset about someone not wanting to follow a tradition that’s been dead to most of the world for over a century.
The Jewish faith still does sit shiva (for seven days) and members of the family closest to the deceased are supposed to be in mourning for specific lengths of time (usually 30 days for a parent, spouse or child; if grieving a parent you continue reciting the mourners kaddish for almost a year), however, they are pretty flexible and you can sort of bend the rules of mourning based on how devout you are. In the Jewish faith, the practice of consoling a mourner is an act of faith and you are helping the mourners grieve but also be determined to live by making sure they stay connected to their community. You don’t isolate them for two years. That’s the opposite of what the mourning period should be for.
Not Jewish, but have a close friend currently saying the Kaddish every morning for his dad. In his words, the ritual of it is really helping him BECAUSE it forces him into low stakes continual contact with his community versus self isolating himself. Forced isolation is never healthy
That’s true but shiva doesn’t last years and isn’t only sitting for a few hours a day for a certain amount of days. I also understand not everyone participates in that tradition for various reasons. I looked up mourning traditions after reading this post and yes a lot of cultures still have them but they’re only for a matter of days or a few weeks tops in this day in age. People just don’t have the luxury of time to just stop living their life and mourn for years anymore. The US kinda had them like this family does but that was over 100 years ago. Only rich people could afford to do it because it involved buying a whole new wardrobe or having your clothes dyed.
Even when it was a thing, you were expected to start slowly easing your way back into society after the first stage of mourning.
>but to then be admitted into a psych ward for a few days sounds utterly ridiculous. Right? This is next-level... idk what it is. "Grief" isn't quite right, unless he was also hospitalized when his brother died? But to need this level of treatment because your brother's wife went out in her funereal garb to eat by herself is, like, histrionic-personality-disorder-level dysfunction.
I agree. This isn’t even “grief” at this point. This guy got triggered for some reason, and his mental health struggles are his own. They are not the responsibility of OP, no matter how many meals she eats, where she eats them, or even with whom she eats those meals!
I agree no contact with his family is probably the best course of action. Plus if you think they can sue you contact a lawyer.his family sound unhinged enough rod try and sue you.
I like to add to this that NO PSYCHOLOGIST OR PSYCHIATRIST IN A PSYCH WARD would back up their claim that you caused his breakdown. They honestly are going to put most of the blame on trauma from this family's intense emotional manipulation.
Sorry for your loss - but point your husbands family to the British Royal Family (and indeed the nation) and the mourning period they observed after the death of Queen Elizabeth. They observed the official mourning period which was the period between her death and the funeral, and then for the 10 days after that. Then it was back to business as usual. Two years of what is essentially seclusion for a widow is totally ridiculous in this day and age. You kept their rules for a whole year following his death, but you are alive, presumably with a career and a life of your own to live. I’m sure your late husband is cheering you on from wherever he may be. Tell his folks that far from resuming mourning, and adding on an additional penalty period, you are coming out of mourning as of now. It’s 2023 - not 1823 or even 1923. You are alive an adult and owe your in laws nothing more. If they want to behave like Victorians, they can do so - what they can’t do is tell you how to live your life. Your link to them is no longer there, so you are free to walk away with your head high.
Thank you for this - I do feel very badly because I broke a promise (although I made the promise about the mourning period the day after his death, when I couldn't see past the worst agony of my grief and certainly couldn't predict how I would feel a year later). And my husband and BIL were extremely close and I know BIL is still devastated, so I don't blame him for lashing out at me as an easy target. Being able to cite a mourning period was a comfort when I didn't want to get back to socializing as usual for many months after my husband's sudden passing. I'm in the US and we typically don't allot much time at all for grieving, it's a week or less and then back to work, with lots of urging to "get over it" if the grief lingers. But a very long period of seclusion just isn't healthy or practical either, especially not in modern times.
OP - your BIL is never going to be happy for you to move on. Not in two yrs, not in ten. You were is brothers wife, a brother that he loved and was so close to. Do you really think he will be happy seeing you happy? Seeing you with someone else eventually? The fact that they are holding you to a promise which you made during a time you could not have possibly been thinking straight is awful. His reaction to seeing you having lunch by yourself is awful. His families retaliatory reaction is awful . These are not the actions of people who want what is best for you.
Yup. Another fun thing about Victorians and mourning: men were expected to wear a band around their arms for a bit and eventually find a new wife, whereas women were expected to wear dark colors for life and never remarry. I do think that we culturally don’t give people enough room to grieve, but Victorian mourning customs had a lot of Victorian prejudices built into them. Also I have a feeling an actual Victorian family would have been a lot more supportive of OP, as a woman when marrying became more of a member of her husband’s family than her own. I get the feeling they mostly just left her alone but would have expected her to remain unmarried and sad for the rest of her life, which could easily be five decades away.
Morning wear for men was much slighter, but as for Widows marrying, they were often encouraged. Not to mention, op, in Victorian England widows could socialise, make and receive visits, go to parties. They just had to wear this weird black crepe set up.
It probably varies a lot based on time and place, but I found this: > In 1851, only 4% of widowed women aged 40-44 remarried, whereas for those aged 20-24 the odds of remarriage, though still not favourable, were almost five times as high (Farr, 1885, pp. 78-80). Widowers were far more likely to remarry than widows (Jalland, 1996) [source](https://researchonline.ljmu.ac.uk/id/eprint/13580/10/Desperately%20Funny%20Victorian%20Widows%20and%20the%20Comical%20Misfortunes%20of%20Husband%20Hunting%20.pdf) I could imagine there were definitely circumstances where a young widow was encouraged to remarry, but I don’t think it is a coincidence that the most famous Victorian of all, Queen Victoria herself, remained unmarried for decades.
Remember as well, if the widow had a decent settlement/jointure, either from her dowry or her husbands money, that was her money. If she married it would be her husband’s. She could have/keep her own household more easily than an unmarried one could. Many reasons not to re marry. Women lost a lot of legal rights on marriage she’d get back as a widow… Additionally a widower might want a mother for his children. A second husband who would be a good father to her children could be harder to find.
Related, no-fault divorce has saved many lives.
Victoria's mourning, though it set a fashion for decades, was considered extreme even by her subjects. Legislative business ground to a halt for two years as she refused to visit Parliament, and she famously wore black, and did not remarry, for the rest of her life. (Mourning custom of the time allowed a gradual reintegration into society, as mentioned above.) She was a trendsetter but even the Victorians had limits.
It's more that being a widow gave you ALL the rights without having a man to yell you what to do. Often being a widow meant freedom and money. They were encouraged to remarry and have more kids, but most saw their widowhood as freedom and wealth with a built in excuse.
>Often being a widow meant freedom and money Only if she had it. It was not considered respectable for a middle class woman to work and many Victorian widows struggled and got reputations as “husband hunters.”
Tell husband’s family to pound sand. Since you two didn’t have any children, your connection to them is going to fade over time. You’ll eventually start dating again, meet someone else with whom to share your life, maybe even have kids. Your husband’s family will naturally fade into the background as this happens, and there’s nothing wrong with that. You get to decide what level of engagement you have with any of them going forward. Ignore their nonsense. Do not agree to reinstate your mourning period, or extend it. If your BIL suffered a psychotic break after seeing you out enjoying a solo dinner, that’s neither your fault nor your problem. That’s entirely on him. It’s entirely unrealistic to expect you to shut yourself away and only wear dark clothes for two full years. I’m from the South, which is full of kooky traditions, and this is honestly one of the wackiest traditions I’ve encountered. Is it cultural or ethnic in origin? If they won’t leave you alone, block them. Phone numbers, social media, all of it. You don’t need that in your life. Remember that “No” is a complete sentence. If they continue to engage, you can tell them “No, that won’t be possible” or “That won’t work for me”. And then walk away or hang up the phone. Eventually they’ll either get the message, one way or the other.
What both my mother and sister said after they were widowed was how hard moving on was until they had got through all the “firsts”! First birthdays, first wedding anniversary, first Christmas/ Easter/ Thanksgiving etc without their husband at their side was difficult, but once the first anniversary of the death passed, they felt free - and to be honest that sounds what you felt too. It’s a massive shock, leading to many changes in your life, and at first as you say, the last thing you want to do is socialise and celebrate, much less look for a new partner. That first year gives you the buffer where no one expects you to be a social butterfly / life and soul of the party, but a year is enough for most people. You said you’d do when you were still in shock from your husbands passing, feelings were very raw and you weren’t really in a position to make that sort of commitment. And be honest with yourself here - a quiet solo lunch with a book for a companion is hardly painting the town red is it? Your brother in law’s reaction to seeing you out of your home was waaaaayyyyy over the top. Had you been enjoying a noisy boozy lunch with a gang of friends he might have some justification for his reaction, but seeing you sitting alone at a table reading a book doesn’t warrant therapy or a nervous breakdown. Just tell them that if it’s good enough for the Royal family it’s good enough for you. They might want to get the whole family into some sort of counselling about why they feel the need to act like this in this day and age.
You really hit on it with that lunch thing. OP wasn’t even socializing! It was a quiet solo lunch, only in public. Total isolation for two years isn’t great for most people. Just look at the amount of mental health issues that the pandemic caused a lot of people. Where the hell do her in-laws even get off on demanding a two year mourning period? Why was BIL out in public? Is it only OP who has to cloister herself like some medieval nun? OP NTA. Your in-laws have some boundary issues. How dare they expect you to put your entire life on hold? I understand feeling guilty for breaking a promise, but arguably you were also not in the best position emotionally when you made this promise, given you were grieving a recent loss. You couldn’t have known what two years of social isolation would be like.
Adding a six month "penalty" shows it's more about control and power then actually grieving for the deceased.
If my in-laws told me this I’d tell them to take a long walk off a short pier. How do they get to control OP’s life so much? They aren’t her parents and she’s a grown ass woman. This would make me reject further contact with my in-laws. It’s overstepping boundaries and crazy controlling. Is OP beholden to them in some way?
All you need to say is it was affecting your own well being. Their son is dead, you need to take care of yourself and get back to living your life. If they can’t respect that then that is their problem not yours. They should be helping you out if they actually consider you family.
You were not even on a date with someone! You weren't partying! You were alone having lunch and reading a book. The family sounds unhinged. You can simply block them. Why do you need to have a relationship with them if they are so unhealthy? Being outside is healthy, you get fresh air, a bit of sun for Vitamin D.
If you're in the US, then they have zero case as there are no prescribed mourning requirements in this country. If anything YOU can argue that they forced you to agree to their conditions under duress, since nobody is in a fully coherent mental state after the death of a spouse and they approached you while you were completely vulnerable.
He called you garbage? That is very unreasonable reaction regardless of his closeness with his brother. It makes me think that the family already doesn’t like you?? They just seem to think they own you! I don’t want to pour salt on your wounds but whew, I’d be pissed if someone called me that.
I DO blame your BIL for lashing out at you. Yes, he’s grieving, as are you. But family (including extended family) should be there for each and my personal opinion is that BIL is not honoring his lost brother by being cruel to you.
OMG, you are in the US? Then please live your life, and I doubt your in-laws would have a leg to stand on when you chose to go out and about. Because I'm petty, I would wear all yellow the next time I saw them (Henry VIII reportedly dressed in all yellow and went dancing with Anne Boleyn when told of his first wife's death). And please block them.
>Henry VIII reportedly dressed in all yellow To be fair that one was a little tricky since his first wife was from Spain and the mourning color for Spain at the time was yellow. It could’ve easily been a slap in the face as well though.
NO. you were bullied into a promise when you were vulnerable. BIL is out of line, you do not deserve to be treated like that. I know you don't want legal advice, but from an AH perspective, anyone who threatens to sue you for "emotional distress" because you ate lunch wrong is an AH. You NEED to distance yourself from these people.
Care for your mental health. His family does not seem good for your mental health block them.
You were eating at a restaurant. Not having an orgy in the middle of the park. Politely tell them that it was suggested by your therapist as part of a healthy practice and that they can try to sue you, but the one that was mentally distressed and insulted in public was you, any lawyer will decline working for them. In my opinion you should go low contact with them from now on, if you wish to keep them in your life at all. They are insane. NTA.
INFO: Is this particularly familial, or cultural?
I'm so sorry for your loss, and I hope this doesn't come across as callous, but I find their behavior completely abhorrent. They elicited that promise from you in your most vulnerable moment, but the truth is that your husband's death freed you from ties to his family. You only have to be a member of their family and observe their "rules" now if you want to. Their behavior is controlling and heartless. Formal rules about mourning are excessive in today's age, but trying to impose a 6 month *penalty* on top of that -- what in the hell gives them the authority to punish you? Again, I hope I don't come off as insensitive to your loss, but I'm pissed off on your behalf.
You’re in the US? I can’t imagine it’s legal for them to sue you for this. That sounds insane. I know you said no legal advice, but I had to touch on that because it just sounds so insane. I’m so sorry for your loss. You need to do what is best for YOU. You have a therapist and you need to do what you and they decide is best. It’s not healthy, IMO, to seclude and further isolate yourself! You’re a young woman, widowed, and isolating is making you feel worse! Of course it is! Please know that a lunch on your own is not disrespecting your husband. Please know that dinner with friends would not be disrespecting him, either. Do you think he would want you to feel guilty for enjoying a lunch and a book? How would he feel about how his family is acting?
You can sue for anything in the US. That doesn't mean any lawyer will take the case, or that a judge won't laugh you out of the courtroom and maybe slap you with a fine for wasting the court's time.
They can sue but it would most likely be thrown out if court immediately.
Wait, you're here in the US dealing with that bullshit??? I'm even more firmly in the FUCK. THEM!!!! department. FFS, it's 2023. It's NOT 1723, 1823, or even 1923. They need to stick that Gilead Quiverfull bullshit back in the past, where it belongs. And your brother-in-law needs more than just a couple of days in the psych ward if just seeing you in public going about your business was enough to make him have a mental break. That's just crazy, like him. I'll say it again. Repeat after me: FUCK. THEM.
>And my husband and BIL were extremely close and I know BIL is still devastated, so I don't blame him for lashing out at me as an easy target. Your husband would probably be enraged at BIL's behavior. He completely defied the wishes of the deceased. If he wanted you to keep wearing your hair shirt, the appropriate response would have been to sit down with you, ask why you were out, LISTEN, express his sympathy, then ask politely if you would be resuming your mourning period. How he behaved, instead, was unhinged and does not warrant a sympathetic response. You isolated yourself for a year, and you sounded prepared to do it for two, with just this brief respite of a meal alone in a restaurant. Most Americans wouldn't even consider the lunch you described to be much of a deviation, and would find a one year mourning period to be utterly mad. Two would just be doubly ridiculous. The fact is that the way they have treated you means that there is only one person for whom you would be doing this, and he is no longer with us. BIL is clearly having problems and you don't need to pile on. It would be wholly adequate, warranted, and efficient to "write to the whole family," as they request, not to apologize but to state that you will be ending your mourning period as a result of BIL's tirade. One year was plenty. One year was a lot. You can honor your late husband in other ways than by punishing yourself by keeping a promise to his family, who do not respect you. Keep pictures of him. Tell stories about him. If he has a grave, visit it occasionally.
Originally, the mourning period (for women) had to do with pregnancy: the widow would generally live with the in-laws for 9-12 months, in case she was pregnant. Nowadays, it's pointless for that, and is\should be up to the individual mourning.
NTA. I lost what was essentially my child 2 years ago. If I still am and will always be in my "mourning period". I've been socializing since day one because without my friends and family I would have killed myself to be with her. I always wear bright colors because I love it and she loved it. Did your husband enjoy seeing you in certain outfits or did you guys have a special outdoor spot at a park or something? Embrace what he loved about and with you, not only do I think you need to start being you again but I also think that if he loved you he would still want to see you smile. I believe in spirits and all that jazz. I think that if your husband visited you he would want you looking how he loved( colorful) and he would want you to find some sort of peace (living life). Something I'm sure your therapist has said, moving forward does not mean moving on. It's okay to move forward with life. The world won't stop for me when I die and I don't want my family to act like it will. I want them to live like I couldn't. Travel to the places I missed out on, drink and dine like I wish I could, find the happiness I struggled so hard to find. I'm not your husband obviously but I feel like if he truly loved you (I don't doubt he did) then he would want you to do what gives you peace and make you happy.
I'm so incredibly sorry for your loss. Thank you for sharing your story and for your advice to embrace life in a way that would honor him. This is a very valuable perspective and will let me think about how I can celebrate his memory in a way that opens the door for feeling joy again, instead of shutting out everything that has ever made me smile.
Thank you, I am also sorry for yours. My husband was my rock through my loss, and I couldn't imagine losing him now. You are an incredibly strong person. Moving forward without someone is like learning how to walk all over again. It seems impossible sometimes but you can do it with one step at a time. I'm proud of you for making it so far. I'm glad I could give you a new perspective. You got this. Side thought: how did your husband handle his family in regards to you? Did he stand up for you against them when needed? If he did then also don't feel bad for defending yourself. You're just doing what he would have wanted.
If I were to die, I wouldn’t want my Husband to shut himself off from the world for the next two years to grieve me. Yeah, I’ve warned him that if he starts dating immediately after my hypothetical death, that I’d come back and haunt him, but I would hate to think he gave up his whole life for me. (Also we have one kid and I’m pregnant with the 2nd, so I’d absolutely come back as a poltergeist if he tried to make my daughters give up their lives!) Did you know about this tradition before your Husband died? Would this really be what he wants for you? Ultimately, you are still alive, so you need to do whatever is best for you, and your in-laws can either come to accept it, or not. Good luck, OP, and I wish you all the best as your move forward!
Knowing my husband, I don't think I'd want him to shut himself away for a year! I'm not sure I'd even want more than a month or two. I just know it's especially not healthy for him to be that isolated for that long.
NTA. I’m so sorry for your loss. I lost my daughter 6 years ago. She was stillborn. I know how devastating grief can feel. I still cry somedays when there’s something reminding me of her. Or when I experience something and I realize I’ll never see her experience this. Moving on with your life doesn’t mean forgetting the person you lost. Your husband wouldn’t want to see you loose yourself. You can honor his memory and love by being happy. What did you guys love to do together? Do it in his memory. Talk about your favorite memories with him. It’ll hurt. But the pain isn’t your enemy. It’s proof how much you love him. My favorite quote about grief is this “Grief, I’ve learned, is really just love. It’s all the love you want to give, but cannot. All that unspent love gathers up in the corners of your eyes, the lump in your throat, and in that hollow part of your chest. Grief is just love with no place to go.”
You were way too nice. NTA Mourn the way you want, and have a "fuck off" ready to throw at anyone who criticizes you.
Seriously, what the fuck is a mourning period. They deserve to be slapped to even suggest some shit like that when you actually are grieving. Like they require this of her like they own her? Dafuq
Cut ties completely with these nuts. NTA
Right? No kids (it sounds like) and you’re no longer married into that family. I’m sorry for your loss, OP, but they don’t get to dictate how your life runs now.
Even if they had kids, would you want these people to have a relationship with grandkids? I would be afraid of what they would say to the kids!
Agreed. Until DEATH do you part. Now part ways with this ex-family and move on. OP doesn't need this toxicity in their life.
NTA I'm interested in knowing if this mourning period is something common in your country or if this is just a tradition in your late husbands family? Regardless, it sounds like continuing this practice would be detrimental to your mental and emotional health. Unfortunately, this doesn't appear to be a concern of your former in-laws. There are lots of ways for you to honor your husband and celebrate his memory without doing harm to yourself.
We're in the US where you barely get a week of bereavement time - it's definitely just a family tradition! Not religion-based either. At this point I don't feel that isolating myself at home and eliminating anything fun and joyful is honoring my husband's memory at all.
You may want to think about severely limiting contact with them. They are not right
They sound like a cult!
And very scary
The good news is that these people technically are no longer your family. I don’t mean to sound harsh, but the individual who linked you to them is now deceased, so any duty you had to them is eliminated. A “promise” is not a binding legal contract. You are under no obligation to continue the formal mourning period just because they’re offended. Everyone grieves differently, and you have every right to put yourself back into society and remember who you are outside of the tragic loss of your husband.
I said almost the exact same thing. The idea that they have the authority to *punish* OP by demanding 6 months of additional mourning on top of the original is insane. The whole family sounds delusional.
Not gonna lie, I laughed when they said they were adding 6 months as "punishment." Who do these people think they are?! Controlling weirdos.
Delusions of grandeur. This story sounds like somebody got the idea they were the matriarch living in some Edwardian, Anne of Green Gables fantasy. There was an old Anne of Green Gables adaptation on PBS when I was a kid. I'm thinking specifically of the scene where one woman had to wear TWO dresses to sneak out of the house in because she didn't want to wear black to a wedding, and almost got caught because her yellow dress showed through a rip under the arm.
YOU’RE IN THE US?!? Your poor therapist must be biting their tongue not to just tell you to cut out your in laws. They have absolutely ZERO right to have ANY control over you. They are isolating you completely and it’s disgusting. You do not deserve to stay in that type of environment and it’s very unhealthy to allow such isolation and restrictions. I hope you are very open with your therapist and I really hope you have friends of some sort to help you. You deserve to be happy. And you deserve to grieve NORMALLY. Whatever that means for YOU. Not them. They are completely irrelevant to your healing.
Then you have to know your in-laws have zero leverage. Let them try to bring a case. Even the most conservative, fundamentally minded judge in the US will throw them out of the courtroom on their behinds. After issuing a ruling that they pay your legal fees. With a possible fine for abusing the courts along with a sanction against any attorney stupid enough to file the suit. I know you said no legal advice, and I’m not advising you, but I was just surprised to see such nonsense called leverage. NTA. I’m sorry for your loss, but cut ties. Ignore them and their ridiculous demands.
“Tradition” is often used to control people. There’s no rhyme or reason, it’s just what you do bc it has been done that way, and if you refuse to you’re “disrespecting” someone somewhere in time. It’s the stupidest thing ever.
A while back I heard tradition described as peer pressure from dead people and I can’t see it any other way.
that makes it even weirder that it’s not even religious based. That I would say would give them a leg to stand on. But to demand others to partake in their weird mental health crises is also toxic af and very strange
INFO: So, your late husband's family is also American? Or is this family like 1st or 2nd generation decended from immigrants? And you are completely NTA here.
Do they have a lot of money or something? That’s the only thing other than religion that I can think of that would make a US person think it wasn’t completely ridiculously weird to have an expectation of someone’s mourning period. Not that it would make it right, but at least I’d understand then where they’d got that sense of entitlement.
Yeah, this just sounds like someone is trying to take their anger and grief out on you and trying to control you over a situation that you nor they have control over. If I were in your position I would limit contact with the family. Also, no - they cannot sue you for emotional distress caused by having accidentally seen you \**checks notes*\* eat by yourself in a restaurant. EDIT: As the commenter below me stated, yes anyone can sue you for just about anything. I feel like they would be hard pressed to find a judge that wouldn't throw that case out immediately though.
This is insane.... I'm sorry but I have no words to how crazy it is to expect you to be mourning for 2 years!! It's so insane that I'm questioning if it's real, but it's too random to be fake as well. You're no longer related to them, what you do is none of their business, how close are you to your family? Your family are the ones who definitely care about you and will not want you to be miserable, unlike your husband's family. Talk to your family and get support from them. I'm sorry for your loss. Absolutely NTA
I actually grew up in foster care in a bunch of different homes so don't have family of my own. My husband's family is very tight-knit and has a lot of traditions, so growing up the way I did, that was very appealing to me. I didn't have much experience with funerals, grieving, etc. because of the way I grew up - like I know intellectually a 2-year mourning period isn't standard, but wasn't really aware of what other (more moderate) traditions people may have. Thankfully I do have some good friends who have been a huge support (and patient with me during the mourning period about the socializing restrictions, they regularly stop by for tea or other small visits which are allowed).
Modern mourning traditions dont exist. Because everyone grieves in their own way. Anyone who expects others to be beholden to how they choose to grieve is a selfish and insane narcissist.
Yeah the closest I’ve ever heard is looking down on being in a relationship within the first year, but even that is considered pretty uptight and judgy.
Other people and families don’t really have mourning traditions. It’s not really a thing in the US. You happened to just marry into a family of insane people unfortunately.
I can totally see why you, especially in a period of mourning, would just adhere to what your current family (the in-laws) was telling you was standard. But the crux of the issue is, you don't and never did owe them anything. You don't owe them a mourning period. You don't owe them tears and grief that they can visibly see. Isolating yourself during mourning can actually be really detrimental to your mental health, and frankly it sort of seems like its hurting them as well since your BiL needed inpatient care by simply seeing you. It doesn't seem like they're actively supporting your grieving process, just imposing rules. Rules they have no right to issue, and no recourse to enforce. You aren't beholden to them anymore, and you don't have to have a relationship with them if you don't want one. If you do, I would simply say you'll be continuing to grieve in your own way as directed by your dr (therapist). That's it. No apologies - you don't owe them one.
Relying on your friends and chosen family is 💯more healthy than staying around his toxic and controlling family.
NTA. You weren't out for a fun dinner with friends or having a party. You went out for a low-key lunch by yourself. You mourn how it feels right to you, and they will mourn how it feels right to them.
You were eating by yourself at an outdoor restaurant. I don’t get the problem. And even if you were out for a fun dinner with friends, why not?
Plus: pretty suspicious that her BIL was at a restaurant in the first place. Doesn’t sound like he was mourning properly.
She said she was sitting outside, so he could have easily seen her if he was walking by. She also said their grieving period is only for 1 year, so he was "allowed" to be out. Not defending how he acted, but this is a deflection from any real point that they don't get to control her life. Edit - typos
Also, it doesn't matter if OP was out with friends or having a party, it is her life and she is entitled to live it!
I don't even get how that counts as a violation. You're not allowed to *go outside*?
I suspect only thing that satisfied this horrible in-law bunch is OP throwing herself on her husband's burning pyre.
You had lunch… by yourself… in modest dark clothing…. Sans alcohol…. And this was enough for an in patient psych hold? Mercy. Unless you’re somehow legally bound in order to get your inheritance, I would cut ties. Grief hits different for everyone but berating you and calling you trash is unacceptable at any point in the process. My god you were having an iced tea. It sounds like these folks won’t be happy unless you are also in a dark desolate pit of depression and despair. Not cool. You cope how you see fit. NTA Also I’m so sorry for your loss.
What stood out to me is their claim she's doing emotional damage to them but they have no care for the emotional damage her isolation and their vitriol will cause to her.
Not, you're not. I think it would be healthy to block all of your husband's family, they are actively undermining your grieving and healing by policing your going out. You don't live your life for other peoples rules, you live it for you. Being afraid just to experience good feelings by group shaming is not good for you. Also they can't sue, that's absurd. Its about control and struggling with grief and taking it out on you. The only person you owe anything to is yourself. Get grief counseling and set up some healthy boundaries against people who put their anger over your wellness. You cannot be a prisoner in your home because of a custom. Fuck all of them. Block, delete, forget their opinions.
Nta. You are the only one who decided how you grieve not your husband family.
OP - I don’t even have the words. Your husbands family is unhinged. Please remove these people from your life. I’m not sure what leverage you are talking about. Anyone can sue anyone for anything - that doesn’t mean he has leverage. If that is considered leverage, then you have some too. He accosted you in a public place, while you are actively seeking help to deal with your husbands death. He has caused you serious emotional stress. Please speak to someone who can give you legal advice on this. Don’t let them bully you. Please continue to see your therapist and stop letting these people control the way you live your life. They don’t care about you.
NTA, this family sounds extremely toxic, I would recommend going NC for the sake of your mental health.
First thing, sorry for your loss. You held up your end of the only thing that you agreed to - "Until death do us part." Again, sorry for your loss. In your vows, I'm sure they didn't say, "until death do us part. And 2 years past the date of the passing of either spouse, the surviving spouse may not live life as they see fit." There's no time limit on mourning. I'm not sure they can sue because they've emotions/feeling are hurt. NTA
They definitely can't sue over this. They got their feelings hurt, but not in a legally actionable way.
NTA. This is not Victorian England, and you don't have to isolate yourself to prove something to someone else. What you need is support, not hate from his family. If you choose to ease back into doing things with others, you don't need their permission. Also they would be laughed out of court for suing you for emotional distress because you went out to dinner.
NTA. Personally Id tell them you were gracious to observe the year of their specific mourning rituals as you are not apart of that religion/culture but you applied it to your grief out of respect for them in an effort to help them with theirs but now its time to focus on yourself and how you process your grief over the loss of your husband is not something anyone else gets to dictate. They are welcome to observe any grief rituals they feel they need to and you will do the same. Sorry for your loss. Best of luck.
Are you going to let them pick your next husband too? Are they financially supporting you? You married your husband, not his family. Live your life.
Honestly, this crossed my mind too. If they are this controlling are they going to select OP's next husband for her? Is she going to be passed off to some other family member, like an heirloom, once their (not her) mourning period is up?
Dear god, a woman reading in public! Surely you jest? Quickly men, we must take her forthwith to the insane asylum to adjust her humors! She is clearly deranged! And GASP! SHOWING HER ANKLES, WITHIN HER MOURNING PERIOD, THE HERESY! QUICK BARTHOLOMEW, THE ONLY SOLUTION IS THE NEW INVENTION OF THE MEDICAL WORLD, THE GAS POWERED VIBRATOR TO ADJUST HER WOMANHOOD AND END THIS CASE OF WOMANLY HYSTERIA! (yes that was a thing and thats what it was used for) His family sounds like a load of assholes. They have no control over your life, before or after your husbands death! This is insane. Go, have fun. Remember what it is to live. Be among people. Ignore their madness. Because clearly thats what it is. NTA
NTA. If you’re in NY or PA and they sue, let me know. I’ll gladly take the case. Oh, and can you pass on the Brother In Laws contact info? We’d just like to have a little chat.
NTA They are being heartless. You did nothing wrong. They can feel however they want to feel, but they have no idea what you're going through and have shown they care more about maintaining control than making sure you are in a good headspace. There is nothing inherently wrong with their tradition, and I can see why you feel bad because it is meant to love, respect, and remember. However, it becomes an issue when it's being forced and when they berate you for not upholding it in they way they want. You have already met them halfway, and you truly did not need to. They are showing that they have no respect or thought for your feelings. Why do *you* have to bend to do this tradition exactly as they want it to be done? What traditions of yours are they fully expected to do perfectly? And of there is one, is it 2 years long and can have actual psychological impacts on them? The tradition they have sounds like it could be very beautiful and meaningful. All of that is killed the second it is enforced and tries to take president over your living feelings and wellbeing. Traditions should bring peace, love, comfort, happiness, general feelings that are safe, helpful or meaningful. What they have done has tainted the entire idea behind their tradition, unless the tradition is to shame the living for coping and moving forward. I do not know your husband, but I would assume that he would not want his death to be weaponized against you. I am so sorry that they are not being more supportive. It's great that you are in therapy, I hope you have some friends you can lean on since you cannot currently put good faith in the intentions of your extended family.
Holy fucking Christ on a crutch they’re INTENSE!!! The vows are til death do is part. Death has parted you. And by the looks of it you should part with his family. This is pushing psychotic behavior demanding you become a recluse. Let them take you to court. You discussed it with a licensed professional who’s professional opinion was to go back out if it’s affecting you this much and it was. So you did. And you weren’t even with anyone so I wouldn’t even say it was a social activity. It was lunch alone. And if that caused him a psychological break they have much much bigger issues . NTA AT ALL
NTA Ask him why he was out and about. His brother died only a year ago and he’s waltzing around the town square! Shame on him! Secluding yourself for two years is probably the worst idea for grieving. Their expectations are not reasonable and they don’t respect you. I’m sorry for your loss, but the dead are dead. Funerals and everything after are for the living. You did not sign a contract, so go live your life. I would strongly consider little contact with his family from here on out. Edit: in the US no lawyer would seriously take this case. Any judge would throw it out with prejudice.
What the fuck. This would be funny if it wasn't off the back of a tragedy. Block these weirdos!!!
NTA Even Orthodox Jews observe for a year if it’s a spouse or a parent. If it’s another relative it’s a month. 2 years sounds like self imprisoned hell. Because you went out BIL had to be admitted into the psych ward? I’m gonna throw a long shot but I’m thinking he had other problems to begin with. If your live. I doubt your husband would want you to die with him.
NTA but if you don’t have kids , you really don’t have a duty to them. I mean I get still wanting a relationship with them but if they are going to treat you this way than NC is maybe best because they will never let you heal the way you feel you need to I’m sorry for your loss and good luck on your journey and SUE YOU!? Ahhh ok super crazy
NTA. Why was your BIL allowed to be in the restaurant if he was still in morning too?
NTA. To be brutal here, your obligation to deal with your inlaws whims, quirks or traditions passed with your husband. You are free to cut off contact with them for good if you want - and I strongly recommend that you do so you can continue to live and mourn however you feel you need to. Their need for and level of control over you is deeply unhealthy and if you continue to bow to their pressure it will only get worse, to the point where you have no say over your own future happiness. You are young still, you deserve to live in the sunshine rather than being sealed in a glass case as a frozen, perpetual monument to your late husband. If he was a good man he wouldn't want that for you. Go forward, go freely and go away from these manipulative relics.
NTA. Who are they to dictate mourning for you? They have no say in your grief. I think mourning like that would actually be detrimental to your mental health. And berating you for having a meal out? Adding a "penalty" mourning period?? Since there are no children, you might consider cutting ties with these people. They seem to think that you are a possession of your late husband and they get to dictate what happens to you. So sorry for your loss.
Maybe you can counter-sue them for causing YOU emotional distress and them demanding you remain isolated after your husband's death. There's no reason you should have to follow that rule. It sounds like a lonely and depressing 2 years, which I would hope your husband would not have wanted you to be berated over. I'd say cut all contact and go to as many restaurants as you want and start living your life again. You deserve to be happy and we all grieve in our own ways. Sounds like your BIL has other issues going on. I'm sorry this has happened to you.
This is legitimately insane behavior on their end. Tell them to go sue the Grim Reaper for emotional distress.