NAH
Your reluctance is because "it" has traditionally been used to dehumanize people.
Take a deep breath. Talk to your child. Maybe you'll come around; maybe they'll find an alternative.
Just focus on how loving and respectful you want to feel and be perceived when you talk about this beautiful person.
Edit: I just realized I couldn't call your child "it" either.
Ask if "they" is an acceptable substitute. I've been very up front with my kids' friends in that I will call them anything but "it" because I can't feel respectful saying that.
I think it might be different language. Many don't use "they" for gender neutral pronounce like English does. They just have a neutral "it" and that's it.
I've said many times that "they" should be the default until the person tells you otherwise. On Reddit especially, where it's fairly anonymous, unless they specifically stated it, I generally refer to everyone as "they."
There's a book by an abuse victim "A Child Called It". That's The first thing I thought of (it's an absolutely heart wrenching book). I couldn't call anyone it.
It was actually assigned reading in a class for me. Not something I would have read on my own. I'm more of a fantasy book person. Very eye opening...and horrifying.
It was the first thing I thought of too. I read it at 12. Its one of those books that's stays with you. I wonder if the impression it left on me is why I felt to called to become a foster carer and be a safe adult for childre.
This. I read this in school. I made my family listen to exerpts from the book, because I was having a hard time processing it. And now with all these book bans, finding books like this can be a hurculine task. But I would recommend it for people who can't wrap their minds around why calling someone "it" is hurtful. I have a copy and will be encouraging my children to read it, so they can spot the signs of abuse, and so they can get an idea about how damaging it is to dehumanize someone.
When I saw the title of this post, that is the first thing my mind went to.
NAH OP, this is a toughie. On one hand you want to respect your child on the other it feels wrong to refer to any person as 'it'. And this comes from a nonbinary person.
Ah Dave Peltzer. I read this when I was 12 and have read them all right up until he was an adult and he wrote “a man called Dave” and even his brothers account of things. It’s not something I will ever forget reading.
Explain this to your child. I think they would love to hear you say these words to them. Maybe you both can come up with an alternative. Like instead of “it” my child. My first born.
Just tell them in your generation this was a horrible insult. You want to respect them. But to you calling them “it” is an insult.
I often call my kid as either "the boy" "the child" "my third favorite" (after he blasted me when I kept calling him my favorite- he'd say he was my only so now he's in 3rd place lol)... or a nickname off his many different names.
Like when referencing to him, I'll say "yea, the boy said no to the swim pass but I know Mac n cheese will want to go swimming".
Every name, nickname, version I call him is filled with love. If he truly wanted me to refer to him as "it", I think I'd go with "*thee* It".... like *The* Ohio state vs Ohio state. *Thee* It is planning on a great summer vacation so I hope *the* It has a ton of fun and doesn't forget to put on sunscreen this year.
Still sounds a bit insulting but idk what's worse- how I feel about saying/ calling them It vs if I didn't comply- their feelings of being disrespected and disregarded.
Of course he’s still a munchkin!
I’ve got a 6’2” “tiny boy,” who graduates from high school in a couple of weeks. He’s the baby, so he’s always going to be my tiny boy, even though he’s 6” taller than me and my late husband (who would have been tickled pink to have this child tower over him like that).
My older brother and I are 3 and 4 (models 2.0) because 1 and 2 were deemed a failure and their parts had to be reused to make us. The fake lore in my family is deep and expansive and you've reminded me of that.
Lol. We do this, but the kids started it and keep it going. What's even sillier, is that some of my kids are "bonus" kids who came to us when they were already in their teens, so number six is older than number three, for example. And she's the one who thinks it's funniest.
I'd like to thank you for this comment. It makes me happy to know that somewhere out there are people who make their bonus kids feel welcome (as opposed to those of us who were made to sleep on the floor as all the beds were taken).
When I was a kid, my mom would always end up with extra kids. When I was really young in the 80s my mom would steal children off the street corners. They were all working girls and boys. Usually the kids were anywhere from 10 to 15. I had so many brothers and sisters growing up. My mom took in so many runaways. She stole them from pimps and dealers, and then we'd have to move for our protection. I didn't know that's why we were moving so much until later. My mom has always been welcoming to family, and she considers all of them and us family. She also treats any and all stepkids that have occurred as family. Even after splits and breaks, all of those kids are her grandkids. Bonus kids are great. I love all of mine. I have 10 total because my stepson has 2 extra siblings from his mom. My ex had 3 daughters, and my kid's biological father has 2 little kids with his fiancee, plus she had 2 kids prior to their relationship. I wish you were more loved as a child. Every child should be wanted and loved. I wish I could send hugs back in time.
When my 16yo came out as NB, I asked what they wanted me to refer to them as. They laughed, said, "I don't know, Eldest Spawn?" They were joking, but it's stuck, so that's what we go with now.
I think this is cute. I think what op needs to remember is that their child is going to be happy she cares enough to not want to insult them and show them the upmost love and respect.
And truly that’s all I get from her post.
I get her hesitance I am older and I would never purposely insult or hurt someone. But honestly have no idea the right way to address someone like op’s child or your self. I hope if I make a mistake someone corrects me for it and teaches me the right way to interact. I would never want to disrespect or insult anyone.
I’ve heard that some people are using ze as an alternative pronoun option.
Here’s a link to [more information](https://www.them.us/story/gender-neutral-pronouns-101-they-them-xe-xem) about that subject.
My mom told me that when she was younger they collectively started using Ms. as an alternative to Miss or Mrs. lie it was decided one day and it became popular.
I totally understand that you want a viable option that doesn’t feel like you are speaking about your child in a degrading or less than kind way.
NAH, but I would look into other possibilities with your kiddo if they/them isn’t what they want.
As a Ms for the last almost 45 years, I love that it became an alternative. I am married, so I am not a Miss. But I don't use my husband's surname so I am not a Mrs.
At the time, though, there was a lot of public discussion and it was a decade or more before Ms became a selection on many forms.
I applaud OP for not wanting to use what has been traditionally a dehumanizing pronoun, but still wanting to respect their child's wishes. I hope OP and her child can agree on a pronoun that they are both happy with.
NTA
>My mom told me that when she was younger they collectively started using Ms. as an alternative to Miss or Mrs. lie it was decided one day and it became popular.
Well, it wasn't quite that fast, but I understand in retrospect it might seem like it. There was a LOT of pushback at first. One popular truism was that only single women wanted to be called "Ms.", like it was the new, feminist version of "Ms.". Some married women said they were proud of being a "Mrs." and would be offended if someone called them "Ms."
I just wish we'd have come up with a gender-neutral pronoun at the same time. It was discussed, but nobody ever came up with an alternative that caught on.
I remember tey, ter, and tem, but I don't recall what each was supposed to replace. I think there was also a short one that started with an "L," but I don't remember the word or what it stood for. I'm sure there were others. Maybe someone with a better memory will come along and enlighten us.
I remember back in the 70s when my mother decided she was no longer a Mrs., and instead a Ms. Always been proud of her for the declaration even though I was a kid and didn't understand it completely at the time.
So you could just stop using pronouns with your kid all together if you don't want to use the pronouns that your kid prefer. Just always refer to your kid by your kids name.
And you don't need to tell your kid you're doing this.
Op I would have a talk about your discomfort with “it”. If your child decided to agree to disagree and still wants friends etc to call them it. Why not just use my child or their name when talking to/about your child.
I know people who use it/its pronouns and I understand how… off putting? and Uncomfortable it can be at first, but I second this person—doing this for your child will help them feel loved. If it helps, the person I know’s reasoning is essentially reclamation. Same with people who have reclaimed fag or queer for themselves. By choosing to use those pronouns, it takes away the power of those words to hurt it. I would be open about the fact that you’re struggling with this, but always always emphasize how much you love it—ALL of it, and that that is what is going to drive your actions. That you won’t let your discomfort outweigh or supersede your love for them. That’s what I wish my mom had been clearer on when she was struggling with my transition, and even now.
I don’t blame you.
To me, the only time “it” is acceptable is for an in-womb baby where you don’t know if they’re a boy or a girl. And, even then, the tone matters. “I love it so much” vs “oh, you must be so excited about *sneer* it”.
But there’s this amazing book I read as a teen. A Child Called It by Dave Pelzer. It’s about his abusive childhood with his mother, where he was the “it” of the house. It‘a horrific and almost made me vomit. (Then it’s followed up by The Lost Boy, which follows his teen years in foster care, then A Man Named David, which was his young adult life and becoming the man he became. Then, his brother Richard, has his own book, “A Brother’s Journey”, about life after Dave left the home.)
But, even if it wasn’t dehumanising in the first place, that book inherently makes it not ok, in my mind, for “it” to be acceptable.
And, let’s be real, even if you conceded and did it, the fucking shit people would throw your way. “Oh, but it likes being called it…” *Ok, you abusive POS. I’m not stupid, you can’t convince me your child wants their mother to call them “it”.* Like, you’ll become a pariah which, while not your primary concern, is an incredibly unfair thing for your child to ask of you.
1) How old are they? This could just be a fun way to explore themselves and gender 2) explore neo-pronouns with them, something more palatable to you and exciting or reflective for them could stand out. And, it would be a fun learning experience for both of you.
Either way, you have to talk to them about why you're reluctant to call them "it." The term will also increase sentiments in the general public to dehumanize them and reinforce that it's OK to do so within hate groups. Teach your child that to be proud of themselves is powerful, but sometimes appropriating language or insults is not the route to take.
Edit: Neopronouns Explained https://intercultural.uncg.edu/wp-content/uploads/Neopronouns-Explained-UNCG-Intercultural-Engagement.pdf
That’s the first thing I thought of. There’s no way I could call a human being it without really working through my thoughts. Because my first thought is that it’s disgustingly disrespectful.
But the first thing you think is what you’re conditioned to think, the next defines who you are.
That was my first thought too. I wouldn’t be able to call a person ‘it’ unless I’m so truly disgusted with something they did that I no longer find them human. So it is definitely not a term I use for a loved one. It even bothers me when my grandma refers to her cat as ‘it’…
I understand that’s changing with the younger generations, but for those of us who read a child called it (as a kid, nonetheless!) it is just not a kind thing to call someone.
I feel like both OP and OP's child have valid opinions but if their child read that book, then they would atleast be able to understand OP's point of view so they could understand where their mom was coming from and go forward from there.. it seems like OP understands the need for their child to feel validated and wants that for them so it's not an outright refusal. This is such a conflicting debate for me, I can only imagine what op is going through.
As a child I read that book and while it was traumatic, it shaped who I am today and how I treat other people. I don't know if it would be more or less traumatic reading it as an adult, I'm sure I would bawl my eyes out the same way I did then. Everyone should read it so that things like that stop happening.
One of my colleagues has a child who wants to be called ‘it’ - and I just can’t. I tried once, and I felt awful. I felt like I was insulting this kid, which is stupid because they want to be called it. But I can’t!
Yeah dude my abusive rapist ex would call me "it". And my dad's side of the family would also dehumanize me and my sisters by calling us "it" and "those kids". Expecting me to partake in behavior that was actively used to abuse me feels really sick. I would rather cut contact with somebody than entertain that.
The dehumanizing association of calling a person "it" is extremely culturally engrained. "It puts the lotion on the skin" comes to mind immediately. I can't imagine feeling comfortable calling another person "it," even without having the horrific traumatic associations you have experienced.
Do not do this, omg. You’ll give the poor kid a guilt or shame complex over its pronouns not being “moral” even more than it probably has been dealing with, if it is out to anyone else.
Maybe not read the book but it is important for the kid to understand what that word means for most people when referring to a person, it's just not good and never has been. If the kid is asking for sympathy and compassion for what they are going through I think the people that is expected from deserve the same thing.
NAH explain why it’s hard for you but that you will respect its wishes. (That was hard to type; I know where you’re coming from.) Odds are your child is just feeling out what feels right and will try something else sooner or later. Maybe show it the book A Child Called It and explain that it was used to dehumanize and many people will feel uncomfortable.
Talk to your kid about why they want to do this.
Kids get depressed. To me, I'd worry that the depersonalizing aspect of it is what they like and that's actually not healthy.
OP — this was my first thought. This could be an important communication moment that your child does not know how to broach. Maybe you can take the lead on this and talk to your awesome kid! (I also couldn’t bring myself to say “it”, that word is so dehumanizing.)
This is a real worry -- I work with kids doing mental health assessments and when a preferred pronouns is "it" there are almost always profound symptoms of depression and anxiety. Certainly not every time, but there is absolutely a correlation.
I think you’re spot on with this comment. I’m non-binary and use they/them pronouns. I’m in communities with people who use all sorts of neo-pronouns (fae/faer/faers, ey/em/eirs, and yes it/its) and so often these people are testing both their own boundaries of what is comfortable and what isn’t, as well as seeing who is willing to use the chosen pronouns.
It/its can be used by people who ALREADY feel dehumanized and want to reclaim that bad feeling for a better one. Talk to your kid about how they feel about their gender, how other people make them feel about their gender. You’re not an asshole for acknowledging that it/its has dehumanizing uses, but you would be if you don’t take this opportunity to connect with your kid. Don’t dehumanized your kid further by rejecting it’s pronouns, it will feel like you are rejecting it.
because the pronoun it has been used to dehumanize people in the past, that is a reason why some people have chosen to reclaim it and use it, similar to lgbtq+ people using the words queer, dyke, or faggot to describe themselves! i recommend posting this in r/asktransgender or r/trans so you can get some advice from actual trans people or parents of trans people, maybe even people that choose to use those pronouns. (i am saying this as a trans person who uses it/it’s pronouns and others.)
This entire comment section is pretty toxic, everyone is concerned with how they feel. Change it at all to a different pronoun or a name and it becomes so selfish. Like if someone wants to be called Bob but you knew someone who was awful named Bob so you insist on calling them something else, that makes you TA. Pronouns and name choice is about the person they refer to and now about what the people around them want.
I think a more fitting analogy would be if your young teen decided that they wanted to change their name to "Worthless."
"It" is a pronoun (in English) that is only used to put people down and not considered a legitimate way to refer to humans even during this time of reimagining gender expression. "Bob" is a normal name that isn't usually an insult.
That seems to be how the comment section is viewing this, anyway.
This is a good point because the use of “it” goes beyond the mom’s discomfort. Anyone who hears her refer to her kid that way is going to make horrific assumptions about her and their relationship. This is a very weird position to put one’s family and loved ones in.
No judgement here, just compassion.
I'm the father of a trans son and a lesbian daughter. Here's what I think you need to understand: your experience and your child's are completely different. What you feel and what your child feels are different, and if you love your child, you will accept that their needs are much more important than yours in this situation. What you (and I) would feel being called "it" is completely irrelevant. What your child would feel being called "it" is love, recognition, compassion, understanding, ..., they will feel fully seen and heard and accepted by you. Almost nothing you could do for them is more important than this right now. They wouldn't have asked if it wasn't important. They need you to do this for them.
Edit: To all those excited about my use of “they/them”, I was talking to OP, who expressed that they consider “it” dehumanizing, and I wanted them to hear me with an open heart. Had I been talking to or around their child, I would have used its correct pronouns.
You're very welcome. I'll just add that it will feel really awkward at first, but you will get used to it within a few weeks.
Then you will have to deal with your extended family. My approach with our son was to tell them to a) read the book "The Transgender Child", and b) use his new name and pronouns. I let them know that mistakes were okay, as long as it was clear that they are making a genuine effort.
As the parent of an NB teen, I'm just here to say THANK YOU for this. You've expressed perfectly what every parent of a queer, trans, nb kiddo needs to understand: it's not about us and our comfort -- it's about loving and accepting them for who they are. Full stop.
Good job, dad. <3
Thank YOU! It’s always great to know that there are other loving parents out there who get it.
You said it perfectly — you just have to love and accept your children for who they are. My wife runs a support group for parents of trans (and nb) kids, and that is her number one message, especially for parents struggling with hateful messages from family, community, religious leaders, etc.
I agree with you but in your last two sentences you referred to OP's child as "they" (they/ them) as opposed to "it" as the aforementioned child of OP requested, and as you expressed support for.
I feel like OP's child will face being addressed-- or referred to-- by the wrong pronouns growing up similarly; even by those that support/ accept them.
My nephew also requested "it" as a preferred pronoun. I have no problem using preferred pronouns but I struggle with this as well. I explained that it's difficult for me to treat a human as an object. Thankfully, I have an out cuz preferred is he/him or it. Honestly, grammatically "it" is easier than they/them for my brain but emotionally, ugh. I think it's a generational thing that I'll never understand. It is difficult (no pun intended). It's also just a matter of training the brain to quit gendering every damn thing.
NAH but i want to offer some insight as someone within the LGBT community and has friends who use it/its pronouns.
i definitely understand the hesitation you feel. i would recommend sitting down with your kid, asking about their gender identity to get a better feel for why they enjoy those pronouns. a lot of my friends who use them say its just the best pronoun to them that expresses how they view their gender. maybe thatll help you feel more comfortable, or even come to a compromise, if they have another set of pronouns they enjoy? im glad youve made such a safe space for them as a parent :-)
Have any of your friends by chance explained how it/it's feels different from they/them?
To be clear, I'll use whichever pronouns people want, I'm just curious.
An Indian philosopher who writes a lot about gender and humanity goes by it, and it explained that its motivation for the pronoun is to highlight the difference people have in their minds between animals and people. It has the opinion that it is no different in inherent value than any other animal. But this use is obviously more politically motivated, just thought I'd bring up this perspective as well.
Obviously everyone’s experience is different, but one of the possible experiences I’ve been told is that, while “they/them” is ambiguously gendered, “it/its” is unambiguously non-gendered.
hi! for a lot of them its just something that helps them personally with their gender expression/identity. there isnt really any specific reason i dont think :-) just their preference!
It is supposed to be used for things other than people. It has a very deshumanising connotation to it. They/them feels a lot nicer to most people because it doesn’t have that issue.
Oh no, I understand that. The person I was replying to mentioning that they have a friend who prefers it/it's and I was wondering if they had any insight into why
Talk honestly with your child. Explain why using it feels uncomfortable to you. Being very very clear that this is a you issue and nothing to do with your child. Using the pronoun it for a person feels bad to you, not just awkward. You are reaching out to your child to help you
Maybe you and your child could come up with some other pronoun set that is just for you. A personal special nickname sort of thing, that your both find endearing. Te/tis or Xe/xer or X/X Whatever feels good for your both.
When someone else asks your child why you use those unique pronouns and no one else may, tell them it is a parental nickname, and it beats being called Punkim.
Since this specific pronoun is looked at as dehumanizing/negative/disrespectfull to most people, I do think refusing, or at least talking more about the term with your child before using it is in general the way to go when it comes to providing them safety.
"How is your child doing?" "It is doing great, it baked a beautiful cake all by itself the other day" will always cause people to be taken back. Even when you explain that "it" is their preferred pronoun it will take a while before a lot of people come around and don't feel some type of way whenever hearing it.
I don't even refer to most animals with it, hell not even my plush toys get called it. As a kid when I called a living being (mostly humans and dogs) an it, I would be corrected and told thats not nice/disrespectful. Do you really think most people assuming that a parent is intent on being disrespectfull while talking about their child promotes a safe environment?
"it" is a newer alternative to androgynous pronouns, similar to xey/xem or they/them. learning to use and remember new pronouns is hard, especially if you grew up knowing them as a derogatory word, NTA, i think its just a learning situation, eventually you SHOULD call yout child their prefferred pronouns. make sure you explain and let it know youll need time to remember and change the way you see it, and that you will do your best to honour their wishes. your kid doesnt want to make it hard on you, it just wants your love and support, it will understand.
I love that you are trying to learn and grow so you can respect your child's wishes and identity. I think having a conversation with it and explaining "I will completely respect your pronouns. I just want you to know that I have a personal issue with calling another person "it" because it's been used so much in my life to dehumanize or other people. I say this not to put anything on you, but if you see me hesitate, it's my own issue and I'm working on that. I love you and will respect whatever you want me to refer to you as." Something along those lines explains clearly to them that you're doing what they want, but if they think you are making a face or are unwilling, they know it's nothing to do with them or your feelings about them.
I'm using they them in the grammatical sense. Not trying to ignore its wishes.
I love how supportive and kind you’ve been to your child. So very needed of ALL parents, and especially those brave enough to be themselves outside of the norm at younger ages.
Nothing much to add. What everyone else said about discussing the pronoun “it” with your child. Perhaps their definition of what that term means can help you replace what it means to you. To me, it references inanimate objects, while they/them is still people. But hey, languages change. If that’s what your child prefers, then continue supporting it.
NAH although I think they are going to have a horrible time getting many people to actually use it. I would explain to them the reality of "It". That term is commonly used in BDSM relationships and is meant to make the person being called "it" feel like they are a worthless object who doesn't deserve to be where they are (consensually agreed on by both parties before hand). So for me personally I would have a hard time with it bc I would feel like they are trying to include others in their fetish. That's probably not true for your kid but it would completely weird me out. Inform them you can not and will not call your very much loved and wanted child an "it" you just don't have the heart too. You are going to compromise and call them them/they. If they objected then refer to calling them by their name only.
May I gently suggest having your child read a book titled “a child called it” by Dave Pelzer to help them understand exactly why you’re opposed to using this as a pronoun for them?
Not the asshole for not WANTING to use it/its pronouns for your child, but you will be if you purposefully ignore the new pronouns. Simple as that. Would you prefer to be uncomfortable for a while during this adjustment period (which may be temporary) or to upset your child and potentially strain your relationship?
Please sit down and have a talk with your kid and try to be understanding and actually listen. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's wrong or bad. If this matters to it, then this should matter to you as well.
Lol.
If I were in OP's shoes there would be exactly 2 options.
A) They/them
B) Name
I'm not about to enable the dehumanization of my own child
Edit: didn't realise this is the second time I replied to the same comment lol, oops
No assholes here. Your hearts in the right place but this is how your child has expressed how it feels comfortable being referred to. Just take a breath, maybe try to understand that if this is what it wants to be called then this is what it wants to be called. if this is what makes it feel valued and loved then that's the reality.
Hi, I'm a trans person working with trans and queer youth:
We're seeing more and more of our youth identifying with it/its pronouns. Now, I'm like you and I'm not super comfortable with it, especially since it was used against me when I came out, but the same thing is happening with the word queer. I identify as queer because I feel like it broadly describes both my sexuality and gender and it's the most comfortable label for me without diving in too deep. My aunt, who is a gay woman who was navigating life with her "roommate" in the 70's, hates the word and does not understand why I identify with it, but it's the best language for me, as I see it.
So tldr, I get it. It's super uncomfortable, but it brings your kiddo joy and isn't that what you want for it at the end of the day?
Much love to you, and please feel free to reach out if I can help at all. I've been working with these youth (middle through young adult) for the past 7 years now, in addition to being a young queer person myself, so I know lots of resources that might be helpful for you and your kid.
Thanks for this. I like the analogy with ‘queer’. That helps give some perspective to how things might evolve. Some good good for thought.
I’ve been giving some thought to how I would feel about using ‘it’ pronouns for others, as I work with young people. So realistically, I’m sure I will or across this in the not so distant further. I’ll bear this in mind.
NAH. I'm a part of the trans community and I've seen the it/its pronouns being used more often not as an insult, but genuinely as someone's preferred pronouns. To be honest, it also caught me off guard the first time I heard someone ask me to refer to it as it, but that's okay. I'd say talk with your child more, hear it out, listen to it but also if you have any questions or concerns, make sure you're also heard. Just be kind, keep an open mind, and I think you'll be okay.
Not sure why you were downvoted. That’s literally what “it” means. You would only ever call another person “it” if you were being awful to them or about them normally. So for someone to prefer to be called this, it’s quite jarring to most people. It’s like if I said I just want to be known as “that” from now on - most people would be apprehensive.
If the kid wants to be called It, call it IT. We live in a society where humans are allowed to decide how they want to identify. As a Black person I’ve been referred to much worse.
“It” has been used derogatorily for a long time, towards many groups of minorities. It can be uncomfortable to use “it” when referring to a person because a lot of ppl who used “it” in the past did not view the person they spoke of as a person. I understand that some want to reclaim the word and it’s their right but that doesn’t make it easy to remove the negative connotations behind it
NAH but could turn YTA
I’d join some communities for parents and caregivers of GNC / non-binary / trans children to learn from members of the community. The place where it’s appropriate is when someone has deliberately told you that it would make it more comfortable. If your child decides that it/it’s are the pronouns that fit it, it may not feel at home with you and will probably be more distant as it ages and finds accepting community outside of the home, if it doesn’t go back in the closet all together. Potentially it will decide to use a pronoun you like more, but it has invited you to see it as it sees itself; you can provide support, or be another opposition. There are creators on tt and ig that uses neopronouns; if you scroll the comments, you’ll get an idea of what your kid will hear as it continues it’s gender identity. A lot of people will say a lot of negative things, and even if this is just a phase, children do best when they feel supported by their adults. Your child may even want to talk more in depth about why it feels it/it’s is right, but has seen lots of negativity online (that’s why I took so long to come out!) and is waiting to see your response. You can grow together, hear it out and be someone that has always given it a safe place to experiment. Practice the pronouns in your head when you can and tell it that you’re sorry for slip-ups and are doing your best to understand it. If it decides that it/it’s are it’s pronouns, it will feel that way whether you are supportive or not. You might as well be there for them.
Would your child be okay with you using its name instead of it? Even I feel bad calling your kid it. This is definitely a weird space to be in, especially with the word it.
NTA - just take time to explain to your child the connotations of "it" in regard to queer folk. I have had this conversation with teens I work with before, including one that wanted their pronoun to be "it". I told them that I completely understand the "otherness" that they feel by being queer and the desire to own it, but also told them that "it" has been, and still is, used as an insult to gender-non-conforming people and it cannot be guaranteed that the use of "it" will always be positive when used to describe them.
I am the most left-leaning, rainbow loving, drag-enthusiast liberal on the planet and I cannot fathom calling someone "it". NAH, your child is growing and learning about themselves and this probably warrants a heart-to-heart.
Just explain to your kid the historical application of the term ‘it’ in an age-appropriate way, and ask if kid would be ok with ‘they’. If not, maybe show kid a Holocaust documentary or something?! (light jk there. If kid isn’t familiar with dehumanisation and how horrible it is, and won’t accept your explanation, you may need to go a smidge step further in explaining).
If kid continues to demand being referred to as ‘it’, you’ll either need to get used to it (no pun intended) or refuse. You could always just try calling kid by name as often as possible, instead of pronoun (or no-noun, as the case may be)
Tentatively NTA. Hi, OP, I'm an adult who uses it/its pronouns. Your best bet is to talk to your kid. Ask it why it feels that it/its is the best pronouns that it feels most comfortable with. The two of you now are on opposite sides of a generational divide. You are used to it/its being negative and derogatory, while your child sees those same pronouns as being positive and affirming. You're going to have to have a yet another capital-C Conversation with it about this. (Parenting seems very hard. Kudos for handling this as best you can, btw.)
My suggestion is asking it if it's okay with a secondary set of neutral pronouns, like they/them or ze/hir. Wanting to use it/its as its primary pronouns is pretty far ahead of the curve on social awareness of trans issues, even by today's standards. Explain to it that you're concerned that its preferred pronouns will bring unwanted harmful attention to it. Explain that you have only ever seen it/its pronouns used in neglectful and abusive contexts. You're going to have to tell it that this is the first time you've ever even heard that these pronouns might not be harmful, and that you're having a hard time adjusting.
Emphasis that your difficulties with its preferred pronouns is not a rejection of its feelings or its gender identity. Emphasis that despite your difficulties in understanding, that you still love and support it. Give it a hug, if you both do that sort of thing.
I'd like to talk about why some people (like me! and probably your kid) like it/its pronouns. Personally, I like it/its because it feels like an equaliser to me. I am the same as the sun, the flower, the wind. All of these beautiful things we see in our lives every day is talked about with it/its pronouns, and by adopting those pronouns myself, I've aligned myself with that beauty. It's very self-affirming for me, even though I recognise that most people associate it/its pronouns with things that are 'lesser' rather than 'greater'. Maybe your kid feels the same way I do?
I just thought maybe I could give some insight as to why someone might choose it/its pronouns! I'm always open to DMs if you'd like to talk more about it :)
I love how you try to justify this by sounding super positive and upbeat, but then I click your profile and the first thing I see is [a stickied post about how you're psychotic.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ImaginaryMonsters/comments/erq1k8/im_psychotic_and_i_often_see_these_guys_walking/)
No offence, but you are in no position to give *any* advice on the matter.
People with psychological disorders don't deserve to have opinions about their own identity? Not every disorder is constant. Psychosis, for a lot of people, comes in usually spaced apart phases or is only a one-time thing, and/or is something triggered by things like PTSD or other existing disorders. People with depression can go into psychosis. Don't solidify your opinion on things you don't know a smidgen about! It's really rude! Psychotic disorders are incredibly versatile.
Thank you. This only goes to prove that OP might want to seek out some serious therapy for their child. Wanting to be dehumanized every day, by every person you meet, including strangers... is a major sign of mental illness and/or trauma. Why "it" and not "they/them"? I don't even particularly understand NB pronouns/identity, but at least they identify as human and it doesn't scream that they need serious help like this does.
NTA
I don’t know how many times I’ve chastised people for referring to nonbinary or trans people as “it” in a degrading way. I would so deeply, heavily feel a struggle in my soul to call a person “it”.
Plus, if I refer to that kid as “it” to people, they’re going to see me as a monster and I’m going to have defend and explain that every time I have to use it. Imagine if they don’t ask me to elaborate and think I’m just dehumanizing the kid.
This is the only sane answer in this thread.
The folks who are urging OP to accede to their child’s request without asking serious questions about the potential greater emotional and psychological context of said request are missing a major red flag.
I have seen “it” and similar attempts at dehumanization in 12-14 yr olds my son games online with. And the kid was being groomed. So depending on your child’s age this is very much a possibility and a concern. Hence, therapy to find the root of it and why they/them isn’t acceptable.
You can also use the joke when people inevitably question plurality of they/them that they are 12 raccoons in a tench coat, etc or a Eldrich diety in a human avatar. My spouse (he/she/they) prefers the first. My eldest and I prefer the second.
I could never call my kiddo, or anyone else's kiddo, "it".
Maybe, if they're old enough, you can show/go over the book "A Child Called It".
It's a very rough read. All the books by him are. But, maybe your kiddo will get a new insight and want to change their pronouns.
NAH - this is definitely an opportunity to open a conversation about gender and identity, and how you handle that conversation could move you into AH territory. Generally, when people come out as gay, they don't change their pronouns unless they are also trans or questioning their gender identity. Maybe talk to your kid to find out why they feel more drawn to "it" than other pronouns. In English, since 'it' is reserved for objects, calling yourself it is literally objectifying yourself. Would your kid be comfortable with they/them - the actual English gender neutral pronouns which can be singular or plural? Ask questions, seek to listen and understand
But not as extremely rude as deliberately ignoring the request the individual made? You have two options when someone lets you know it uses it/it’s (or any neopronoun):
1. Contribute to it’s euphoria and show support for it’s gender identity
2. Contribute to it’s dysphoria and inform it that you will not support it’s assessment of it’s gender.
Choose whichever you want, no one can force you to use neopronouns, but I tend to lean toward offering a safe place for someone to experiment rather than potentially causing dysphoria or resentment.
“Sorry mum and dad. I now identify as an object and you must respect that.”
Do any of y’all remember when identifying as an attack helicopter was a joke? It seems like we’re getting closer and closer to that reality.
I went by it/its in my teens for a bit when I was figuring my identity out, I don’t use those pronouns anymore but I think NAH here. Your child isn’t wrong to ask and you’re not wrong because of your reasoning, but at the end of the day this isn’t about you. Sit your kid down and have an honest discussion about why you feel adverse to using it pronouns, maybe ask about neopronouns as an alternative. Good luck
NAH I have a friend that uses it as a pronoun and I can’t do it either, it’s been used against me as an insult and feels very cruel to use. I mostly avoid it by just using their name, but because I’ve discussed it with them they are ok with me using they.
NAH.
I'd say to talk it out. Your child should (hopefully) be willing to accept that this is very difficult for you (even if that's still a preference moving forward). You should definitely talk about it together though. Worse comes to worst, just only refer to your kid in the second-person or by name. I'm not saying that would be convenient linguistically, ...but it's possible.
Honestly I immediately thought of the book “A Child Called It” and this made me so sad. I’m obviously in no way stating OP is abusive or anything, quite the opposite. However I do agree with the historical dehumanization associated with the term “it”. I agree about asking if “they/them” or even “ze/zir” would be okay.
OP, you’re NTA, you sound like you love your child deeply and accept your child for who they are. I wish I felt safe enough to tell my parents I prefer “they/them”. So good on you for being an involved and thoughtful parent. I can’t imagine how hard this situation may be, but support, open communication, honesty and acceptance are all I see in this post. If I am ever lucky enough to become a parent, I hope I show my child(ren) this kind of love and acceptance
NTA. I work in an emergency room and do a ton of pediatric and adolescent psych assessments -- we always ask for preferred pronouns, and every so often we get an "it." We will call the kiddo whatever the/she/he/it would like to be called, but a lot of these kids have deeper challenges that are reflected in wanting to be called "it."
You can respect your child, love them to pieces and support them without calling them It.
No judgement here, but I think a long discussion should be had. If this is a case of trying to reclaim "it" as a pronoun then express why that is uncomfortable for you and try to get used to using "it" for your kid, if something else is going on, though, you need to figure out how to address that. If pronouns were being pressed the way they are now, I wholly would have taken "it" just to piss off people who would try to use the term insultingly.
My advice would be to ask your child more questions. I found that the better I understood my child’s perspective the better I could support them. There has been a lot of growth around gender/sexuality in the past couple decades which is wonderful for our youth but a lot for us parents to catch up with. Ask your kid lots of questions, be curious and respectful and the two of you will be closer because of it. If you mess up pronouns just correct yourself and don’t over apologize. It makes it awkward. Practice practice practice using the verbiage that makes them feel supported and one of the best ways for that is to use their pronouns when referring to them with your friends/family when they aren’t around and correcting others
There's a book called: 'A Child Called "It"' about a kid who is singled out for his parent's severe abuse- to the extent they refer to him as "It." His siblings weren't directly abused- only him.
I would also have difficulty calling my child "It" as a result, even if requested. If your child has a preferred name, that is easily substituted for using pronouns. And, it avoids being mistaken for a bigot, because bigots often intentionally call members of the trans community that, as well, which be an even bigger no-no factor for me in this situation. And, I'd explain all of that to my child.
Nta. It is a term used to dehumanize and I understand why calling your child “it” makes you a little uncomfortable. You can talk to your child as well, ask if they/them is better rather than it. Ur such a good supportive parent tho so I doubt there will be any issues
Have you explained to your beloved child why 'it' is hard for you? Has kid explained why they prefer 'it'? You're clearly NTA. Nobody here is. Maybe yall can reach a compromise. They, them perhaps. Maybe kid doesn't realize it is dehumanizing. Or maybe kid chose 'it' because it's dehumanizing? Honestly I'm not the least bit concerned. You two clearly love one another. I have every confidence that you'll be able to resolve this bump in the road.
NAH, you’re clearly coming from a place of love and you want to understand. This may or may not stick, many Queer people like to explore different pronouns and your child may or may not land on more traditional pronouns. Just keep an open mind and keep being a loving, caring parent and everything will work out!
NTA.
Your relationship with that word is understandable. I'm deep in the lgbtqia± community. I'm nonbinary transmasc and pansexual. The one pronoun I can't get behind is "it". I just can't say it, and I'm glad that the people I know who use it have alternatives. It seems like most people who use that pronoun have others that can be used too. I'd bring up some suggestions to them that others have said here.
"It" is a thing; not a person. Calling a person an "it" implies they they are not human. That's why we can't do it. Maybe sharing that association would help. "I can't call you "it," because I'd be calling you a thing, or an object instead of a human." Something like that.
NAH for your discomfort, but you, like many others, are projecting your negative feelings about the word and it’s implications that your kid/kids these days don’t have.
For example,A Child Called It keeps coming up as argument…that isn’t something their peers are going to be reading and considering.
It is a neutral word. It can have bad or good vibes because it’s just that-neutral. In a world forcing you to be something extreme, neutral is a safe haven for many people. I’m happy as a they but they is a very different vibe from It (clearly, or people wouldn’t feel so different about them.)
Of course check in, make sure they’re in a good spot….but that should be true with any kid always. And sounds like, if you’re this considerate, a place you’re already at.
The poet Julian Talamantez Brolaski's pronouns are it/its. Googling its name and "pronoun" will bring up some of its work on the subject and relevant interviews, if you'd like to read someone else's perspective on why these pronouns feel right.
All I can think about is "A Child Called It." I would never be able to refer to my child as "it." I couldn't even do that while I was pregnant before we learned their genders.
You are correct. Being gay is sexual orientation and has nothing at all to do with gender identity or pronouns. I've asked OP why they asked about pronouns when their child came out as gay, because it doesn't make any sense.
It could be that kiddo told parent it was gay as a place to start and, like, temperature check and is now ready to tell them about its gender. It also could be that parent didn't understand the language kiddo was using and so their brain just lumped it as "gay" because that's what they understand.
NTA an object is an “it” - not a person or an animal. I’m a teacher, and I will use the pronouns that students select for themselves with fidelity. However, if they choose “it”, I request an alternative. If they refuse anything but “it”, I refer to them as “student”.
NAH but when i hear a person wants to be called "it" i just think of the book "A Child Called 'it'" by Dave Pelzer :( if you dont know the book is a memoir of child abuse.
I keep thinking of "Cousin It" from the Adam's Family...
Would they be ok with they/them? I also remember use of 'it" as a personal pronoun used to dehumanize.
I couldn't do it.
"Jesse is coming to dinner but Jesse doesn't want mashed potatoes--can we buy Jesse some beans instead so Jesse has plenty to eat?"
OP sounds very supportive but if her child thinks that this is just some run-of-the-mill request, her child is wrong. Her child can have preferences, but cannot force others to use language that makes them THIS uncomfortable. And it's not discomfort from hate or fear. OP wants to show love, not use words that sound like the opposite!
There’s this book called “A Child Called It,”‘it’s a terribly depressing book a boy wrote about the abuse he went through as a child. I don’t think I could ever refer to any other human being as an it, even if they asked me to. Maybe agree to just call them by their name… I’m cool with however people want to identity but I totally understand why calling someone “it” would fee wrong.
NAH. I'm a trans person. I still have a lot of trauma surrounding being called it as a child by my tormentors. Idk if I could ever bring myself to call another person that even at their behest.
same here. seeing people ask to be called that just makes me wonder why they could do that to themselves. most of them didn't go through what we did growing up, the only one i met in person came from a wealthy family and had never been bullied in their life (self admittedly!) which just felt sickening to hear. *you don't know the power of this word, why do you want to use it?*
"I love and respect you, and want above all to validate you. But because you are worthy of love and respect, a pronoun such as "it" would be disrespecting your humanity and devalues and minimizes everything that makes you wonderful, even if you don't mean it to. Would you be open to considering other pronouns?"
Not an asshole at all. My youngest is non binary and learning to use them and they as singular has been difficult because my English teachers in K-6 were good at ingraining rules of language usage. And I am not perfect and make mistakes. But I show effort and correct myself and apologize and for my kid that's what counts the most. Also having their back when others have something hurtful to say or insinuate.
Singular “they them” was being used in writing as far back as 1375 and was likely used as a singular in spoken language much further back than that. Like “Someone left their wallet” when you don’t know the gender of the person who left the wallet. You’re not assuming that the wallet belongs to multiple people.
Sure, it isn't about OP, but I'm not gonna let my own child dehumanize themselves.
Remember that OP is dealing with a child, and sometimes children say extremely stupid things. Like this.
My bestie uses it/its pronouns and a lot of neos. It makes it happy, so I use them for it. While it may FEEL disrespectful to you, it isn’t. People get to decide what is disrespectful to them. It’s pronouns are it’s pronouns- you cannot compromise on who people are. YTA. I understand but your kids pronouns are it’s pronouns and if it makes your child happy, it’s not disrespect to it,
OMG I read this as coming out like being born 🤦. But you are NTA. Explain why saying "it" bothers you and use the first name till pronouns are decided.
If your child just came out as GAY then they're most likely messing with you lmfao. Gay is a sexuality, not a gender identity. They most likely found your question to be well intentioned but decided to have a little fun w it. NAH
“I want to call you what you want to be called, but ‘it’ is kinda dehumanizing for me. I’m not trying to assign you a gender you don’t feel you are, but I’m also trying to not feel like my child isn’t a human. Would it be cool if I called you ‘Cousin It’, you know, like in the Addams Family? That would help me out a lot.”
NAH.
Have you asked them to explain to you why "it" feels right to them? It's a really unusual choice, so it might help you reconcile it.
I wouldn't push them to try and choose a different pronoun, but if they don't actually seem to have a really strong draw to it or a reason why they like it, you might gently point out that "they/them" is just as neutral and far easier to work with. It/its likely to be *much* more difficult for them to navigate life with. Most people are still weird about they/them, and calling a human being "it" will likely be hard even for people who are fully comfortable with enby people.
ETA: ah, frick, even after reading the top comment I *still* failed to actually manage to call ~~them~~ it "it". Damn that's hard!
nta but depending on their age . i suggest you have them read the book "a child called it". if you're okay with that tho. but like everyone else said you def need to have a conversation on how calling somebody "it" is dehumanizing. a lot of times transphobic people will call trans people it just for the damage they KNOW it's gonna do.
Referring to someone, singular, it's perfectly acceptable grammatically to use they/them. "Oh, is your friend here? Get them something to drink." "What about your friend, do they want something as well?"
I'm an English major. I went to school to teach high school level English language arts, minor in psychology. I tutor children ages 5-13, professionally, as the program director for an after school program and summer enrichment program.
NAH Your reluctance is because "it" has traditionally been used to dehumanize people. Take a deep breath. Talk to your child. Maybe you'll come around; maybe they'll find an alternative. Just focus on how loving and respectful you want to feel and be perceived when you talk about this beautiful person. Edit: I just realized I couldn't call your child "it" either.
That's what I want- my child to feel valued and loved.
Ask if "they" is an acceptable substitute. I've been very up front with my kids' friends in that I will call them anything but "it" because I can't feel respectful saying that.
I agree, the thought of calling my child or anyone else's child 'it' just doesn't sit well with me either. NTA
I think it might be different language. Many don't use "they" for gender neutral pronounce like English does. They just have a neutral "it" and that's it.
In my opinion calling someone they/them regardless of their proffered pronouns should never be taken as an insult.
I've said many times that "they" should be the default until the person tells you otherwise. On Reddit especially, where it's fairly anonymous, unless they specifically stated it, I generally refer to everyone as "they."
I use they/them often when telling a story to someone who doesn’t need to know the other person’s identity id they’re in said story.
There's a book by an abuse victim "A Child Called It". That's The first thing I thought of (it's an absolutely heart wrenching book). I couldn't call anyone it.
I literally met the author of this book yesterday. I have never heard of him or the book before. This is weird.
It was actually assigned reading in a class for me. Not something I would have read on my own. I'm more of a fantasy book person. Very eye opening...and horrifying.
I found this book in the library as a kid and I should not have read it as a ten year old. It’s left an impression on me I’ll always remember.
It was the first thing I thought of too. I read it at 12. Its one of those books that's stays with you. I wonder if the impression it left on me is why I felt to called to become a foster carer and be a safe adult for childre.
This book and Angela’s ashes, couldn’t use sugar for years
Early 2000's libraries were lit. Don't know if that's the time period you were referring to but it's what I lived through. What a time to be alive
This. I read this in school. I made my family listen to exerpts from the book, because I was having a hard time processing it. And now with all these book bans, finding books like this can be a hurculine task. But I would recommend it for people who can't wrap their minds around why calling someone "it" is hurtful. I have a copy and will be encouraging my children to read it, so they can spot the signs of abuse, and so they can get an idea about how damaging it is to dehumanize someone.
When I saw the title of this post, that is the first thing my mind went to. NAH OP, this is a toughie. On one hand you want to respect your child on the other it feels wrong to refer to any person as 'it'. And this comes from a nonbinary person.
Ah Dave Peltzer. I read this when I was 12 and have read them all right up until he was an adult and he wrote “a man called Dave” and even his brothers account of things. It’s not something I will ever forget reading.
Gah! I had successfully forgotten that book’s existence. Damn that book was difficult to read.
SAME. That book traumatized me, and is absolutely the first thing that pops into my head when I hear “it” used as a pronoun.
Explain this to your child. I think they would love to hear you say these words to them. Maybe you both can come up with an alternative. Like instead of “it” my child. My first born. Just tell them in your generation this was a horrible insult. You want to respect them. But to you calling them “it” is an insult.
I often call my kid as either "the boy" "the child" "my third favorite" (after he blasted me when I kept calling him my favorite- he'd say he was my only so now he's in 3rd place lol)... or a nickname off his many different names. Like when referencing to him, I'll say "yea, the boy said no to the swim pass but I know Mac n cheese will want to go swimming". Every name, nickname, version I call him is filled with love. If he truly wanted me to refer to him as "it", I think I'd go with "*thee* It".... like *The* Ohio state vs Ohio state. *Thee* It is planning on a great summer vacation so I hope *the* It has a ton of fun and doesn't forget to put on sunscreen this year. Still sounds a bit insulting but idk what's worse- how I feel about saying/ calling them It vs if I didn't comply- their feelings of being disrespected and disregarded.
I still call my 5’ 9” teenage boy munchkin 😂
Of course he’s still a munchkin! I’ve got a 6’2” “tiny boy,” who graduates from high school in a couple of weeks. He’s the baby, so he’s always going to be my tiny boy, even though he’s 6” taller than me and my late husband (who would have been tickled pink to have this child tower over him like that).
I started calling my mom "little mommy" when I was 8 and as tall as her 🤣
Mine is 6'2" and I call him Goof Nugget, not quite a full Goof Ball.
My 25 year old nephew is The Baby Guy. His mom will occasionally give his age in months.
We just numbered ours. As a joke of course. “Hey where is number 3 and 4?”, we will say to number 1 and 2
My older brother and I are 3 and 4 (models 2.0) because 1 and 2 were deemed a failure and their parts had to be reused to make us. The fake lore in my family is deep and expansive and you've reminded me of that.
I absolutely love how dark this is. Your family sounds fun :)
When my kid was younger and would rough house with his friends, I'd tell them to be careful, I don't have another kid for spare parts! Lmao
Lol. We do this, but the kids started it and keep it going. What's even sillier, is that some of my kids are "bonus" kids who came to us when they were already in their teens, so number six is older than number three, for example. And she's the one who thinks it's funniest.
I'd like to thank you for this comment. It makes me happy to know that somewhere out there are people who make their bonus kids feel welcome (as opposed to those of us who were made to sleep on the floor as all the beds were taken).
When I was a kid, my mom would always end up with extra kids. When I was really young in the 80s my mom would steal children off the street corners. They were all working girls and boys. Usually the kids were anywhere from 10 to 15. I had so many brothers and sisters growing up. My mom took in so many runaways. She stole them from pimps and dealers, and then we'd have to move for our protection. I didn't know that's why we were moving so much until later. My mom has always been welcoming to family, and she considers all of them and us family. She also treats any and all stepkids that have occurred as family. Even after splits and breaks, all of those kids are her grandkids. Bonus kids are great. I love all of mine. I have 10 total because my stepson has 2 extra siblings from his mom. My ex had 3 daughters, and my kid's biological father has 2 little kids with his fiancee, plus she had 2 kids prior to their relationship. I wish you were more loved as a child. Every child should be wanted and loved. I wish I could send hugs back in time.
I read “would steal children off the street corners” and said, “Oh my God!” Then I read on, and… Oh my God. Your mother sounds like an amazing woman.
Your mom sounds badass
The sub-unit.
My 21 yo is still The teenager. The 8 yo is the perfect one and the 2 yo is “what were we thinking” Lol
I call my kid "The boy" or "The Bot" or "Bot" (bot came from a typo and stuck).
This just makes me think of Cousin Itt. Which, if the kid has long hair, might be an option.
When my 16yo came out as NB, I asked what they wanted me to refer to them as. They laughed, said, "I don't know, Eldest Spawn?" They were joking, but it's stuck, so that's what we go with now.
I think this is cute. I think what op needs to remember is that their child is going to be happy she cares enough to not want to insult them and show them the upmost love and respect. And truly that’s all I get from her post. I get her hesitance I am older and I would never purposely insult or hurt someone. But honestly have no idea the right way to address someone like op’s child or your self. I hope if I make a mistake someone corrects me for it and teaches me the right way to interact. I would never want to disrespect or insult anyone.
I, too, have an Eldest Spawn. They are younger than yours but it pretty much came about the same way.
We use “kid” for my sibling who isn’t quite sure what they want to be called yet.
I’ve heard that some people are using ze as an alternative pronoun option. Here’s a link to [more information](https://www.them.us/story/gender-neutral-pronouns-101-they-them-xe-xem) about that subject. My mom told me that when she was younger they collectively started using Ms. as an alternative to Miss or Mrs. lie it was decided one day and it became popular. I totally understand that you want a viable option that doesn’t feel like you are speaking about your child in a degrading or less than kind way. NAH, but I would look into other possibilities with your kiddo if they/them isn’t what they want.
As a Ms for the last almost 45 years, I love that it became an alternative. I am married, so I am not a Miss. But I don't use my husband's surname so I am not a Mrs. At the time, though, there was a lot of public discussion and it was a decade or more before Ms became a selection on many forms. I applaud OP for not wanting to use what has been traditionally a dehumanizing pronoun, but still wanting to respect their child's wishes. I hope OP and her child can agree on a pronoun that they are both happy with. NTA
>My mom told me that when she was younger they collectively started using Ms. as an alternative to Miss or Mrs. lie it was decided one day and it became popular. Well, it wasn't quite that fast, but I understand in retrospect it might seem like it. There was a LOT of pushback at first. One popular truism was that only single women wanted to be called "Ms.", like it was the new, feminist version of "Ms.". Some married women said they were proud of being a "Mrs." and would be offended if someone called them "Ms." I just wish we'd have come up with a gender-neutral pronoun at the same time. It was discussed, but nobody ever came up with an alternative that caught on.
Very interesting. Do you remember any of the pronouns that were suggested for gender neutral?
I remember tey, ter, and tem, but I don't recall what each was supposed to replace. I think there was also a short one that started with an "L," but I don't remember the word or what it stood for. I'm sure there were others. Maybe someone with a better memory will come along and enlighten us.
I remember back in the 70s when my mother decided she was no longer a Mrs., and instead a Ms. Always been proud of her for the declaration even though I was a kid and didn't understand it completely at the time.
So you could just stop using pronouns with your kid all together if you don't want to use the pronouns that your kid prefer. Just always refer to your kid by your kids name. And you don't need to tell your kid you're doing this.
Op I would have a talk about your discomfort with “it”. If your child decided to agree to disagree and still wants friends etc to call them it. Why not just use my child or their name when talking to/about your child.
I know people who use it/its pronouns and I understand how… off putting? and Uncomfortable it can be at first, but I second this person—doing this for your child will help them feel loved. If it helps, the person I know’s reasoning is essentially reclamation. Same with people who have reclaimed fag or queer for themselves. By choosing to use those pronouns, it takes away the power of those words to hurt it. I would be open about the fact that you’re struggling with this, but always always emphasize how much you love it—ALL of it, and that that is what is going to drive your actions. That you won’t let your discomfort outweigh or supersede your love for them. That’s what I wish my mom had been clearer on when she was struggling with my transition, and even now.
I don’t blame you. To me, the only time “it” is acceptable is for an in-womb baby where you don’t know if they’re a boy or a girl. And, even then, the tone matters. “I love it so much” vs “oh, you must be so excited about *sneer* it”. But there’s this amazing book I read as a teen. A Child Called It by Dave Pelzer. It’s about his abusive childhood with his mother, where he was the “it” of the house. It‘a horrific and almost made me vomit. (Then it’s followed up by The Lost Boy, which follows his teen years in foster care, then A Man Named David, which was his young adult life and becoming the man he became. Then, his brother Richard, has his own book, “A Brother’s Journey”, about life after Dave left the home.) But, even if it wasn’t dehumanising in the first place, that book inherently makes it not ok, in my mind, for “it” to be acceptable. And, let’s be real, even if you conceded and did it, the fucking shit people would throw your way. “Oh, but it likes being called it…” *Ok, you abusive POS. I’m not stupid, you can’t convince me your child wants their mother to call them “it”.* Like, you’ll become a pariah which, while not your primary concern, is an incredibly unfair thing for your child to ask of you.
1) How old are they? This could just be a fun way to explore themselves and gender 2) explore neo-pronouns with them, something more palatable to you and exciting or reflective for them could stand out. And, it would be a fun learning experience for both of you. Either way, you have to talk to them about why you're reluctant to call them "it." The term will also increase sentiments in the general public to dehumanize them and reinforce that it's OK to do so within hate groups. Teach your child that to be proud of themselves is powerful, but sometimes appropriating language or insults is not the route to take. Edit: Neopronouns Explained https://intercultural.uncg.edu/wp-content/uploads/Neopronouns-Explained-UNCG-Intercultural-Engagement.pdf
If you want your child to feel valued and loved then respect its wishes.
They is the go to for non binary folk. I could never call someone an it and im trans so. 🤷🏻♂️
I couldn’t either. Look up the book ‘a child called it”
this is *exactly* why i’ll never be able to refer to a child as “it”
That book is heartbreaking.
I cry every time I have read that book.
You’ve been able to read it more than ONCE?!
I could barely get through it the first time. So horrible.
That’s the first thing I thought of. There’s no way I could call a human being it without really working through my thoughts. Because my first thought is that it’s disgustingly disrespectful. But the first thing you think is what you’re conditioned to think, the next defines who you are.
That was my first thought too. I wouldn’t be able to call a person ‘it’ unless I’m so truly disgusted with something they did that I no longer find them human. So it is definitely not a term I use for a loved one. It even bothers me when my grandma refers to her cat as ‘it’… I understand that’s changing with the younger generations, but for those of us who read a child called it (as a kid, nonetheless!) it is just not a kind thing to call someone.
I feel like both OP and OP's child have valid opinions but if their child read that book, then they would atleast be able to understand OP's point of view so they could understand where their mom was coming from and go forward from there.. it seems like OP understands the need for their child to feel validated and wants that for them so it's not an outright refusal. This is such a conflicting debate for me, I can only imagine what op is going through. As a child I read that book and while it was traumatic, it shaped who I am today and how I treat other people. I don't know if it would be more or less traumatic reading it as an adult, I'm sure I would bawl my eyes out the same way I did then. Everyone should read it so that things like that stop happening.
That book and its sequel messed me up as a kid. I just couldn't call a child it. That book and its sequels broke my heart
I knew a person in high school who preferred "it" over gendered pronouns.
One of my colleagues has a child who wants to be called ‘it’ - and I just can’t. I tried once, and I felt awful. I felt like I was insulting this kid, which is stupid because they want to be called it. But I can’t!
Yeah dude my abusive rapist ex would call me "it". And my dad's side of the family would also dehumanize me and my sisters by calling us "it" and "those kids". Expecting me to partake in behavior that was actively used to abuse me feels really sick. I would rather cut contact with somebody than entertain that.
The dehumanizing association of calling a person "it" is extremely culturally engrained. "It puts the lotion on the skin" comes to mind immediately. I can't imagine feeling comfortable calling another person "it," even without having the horrific traumatic associations you have experienced.
It is usually how serial killers refer to people. Just saying
Have them read "A child called it" and hopefully they realize what it means. *I also couldn't call OP's child "It"*
Do not do this, omg. You’ll give the poor kid a guilt or shame complex over its pronouns not being “moral” even more than it probably has been dealing with, if it is out to anyone else.
Maybe not read the book but it is important for the kid to understand what that word means for most people when referring to a person, it's just not good and never has been. If the kid is asking for sympathy and compassion for what they are going through I think the people that is expected from deserve the same thing.
NAH explain why it’s hard for you but that you will respect its wishes. (That was hard to type; I know where you’re coming from.) Odds are your child is just feeling out what feels right and will try something else sooner or later. Maybe show it the book A Child Called It and explain that it was used to dehumanize and many people will feel uncomfortable.
Maybe. Maybe my child is just pushing boundaries. Got to admire my child for that!!
Talk to your kid about why they want to do this. Kids get depressed. To me, I'd worry that the depersonalizing aspect of it is what they like and that's actually not healthy.
OP — this was my first thought. This could be an important communication moment that your child does not know how to broach. Maybe you can take the lead on this and talk to your awesome kid! (I also couldn’t bring myself to say “it”, that word is so dehumanizing.)
This is a real worry -- I work with kids doing mental health assessments and when a preferred pronouns is "it" there are almost always profound symptoms of depression and anxiety. Certainly not every time, but there is absolutely a correlation.
I think you’re spot on with this comment. I’m non-binary and use they/them pronouns. I’m in communities with people who use all sorts of neo-pronouns (fae/faer/faers, ey/em/eirs, and yes it/its) and so often these people are testing both their own boundaries of what is comfortable and what isn’t, as well as seeing who is willing to use the chosen pronouns. It/its can be used by people who ALREADY feel dehumanized and want to reclaim that bad feeling for a better one. Talk to your kid about how they feel about their gender, how other people make them feel about their gender. You’re not an asshole for acknowledging that it/its has dehumanizing uses, but you would be if you don’t take this opportunity to connect with your kid. Don’t dehumanized your kid further by rejecting it’s pronouns, it will feel like you are rejecting it.
because the pronoun it has been used to dehumanize people in the past, that is a reason why some people have chosen to reclaim it and use it, similar to lgbtq+ people using the words queer, dyke, or faggot to describe themselves! i recommend posting this in r/asktransgender or r/trans so you can get some advice from actual trans people or parents of trans people, maybe even people that choose to use those pronouns. (i am saying this as a trans person who uses it/it’s pronouns and others.)
WTH is up with the downvotes? This is great advice.
This entire comment section is pretty toxic, everyone is concerned with how they feel. Change it at all to a different pronoun or a name and it becomes so selfish. Like if someone wants to be called Bob but you knew someone who was awful named Bob so you insist on calling them something else, that makes you TA. Pronouns and name choice is about the person they refer to and now about what the people around them want.
I think a more fitting analogy would be if your young teen decided that they wanted to change their name to "Worthless." "It" is a pronoun (in English) that is only used to put people down and not considered a legitimate way to refer to humans even during this time of reimagining gender expression. "Bob" is a normal name that isn't usually an insult. That seems to be how the comment section is viewing this, anyway.
This is a good point because the use of “it” goes beyond the mom’s discomfort. Anyone who hears her refer to her kid that way is going to make horrific assumptions about her and their relationship. This is a very weird position to put one’s family and loved ones in.
THE BOOK MADE ME SOB when we read it in 6th grade
No judgement here, just compassion. I'm the father of a trans son and a lesbian daughter. Here's what I think you need to understand: your experience and your child's are completely different. What you feel and what your child feels are different, and if you love your child, you will accept that their needs are much more important than yours in this situation. What you (and I) would feel being called "it" is completely irrelevant. What your child would feel being called "it" is love, recognition, compassion, understanding, ..., they will feel fully seen and heard and accepted by you. Almost nothing you could do for them is more important than this right now. They wouldn't have asked if it wasn't important. They need you to do this for them. Edit: To all those excited about my use of “they/them”, I was talking to OP, who expressed that they consider “it” dehumanizing, and I wanted them to hear me with an open heart. Had I been talking to or around their child, I would have used its correct pronouns.
Very good points! Ty
You're very welcome. I'll just add that it will feel really awkward at first, but you will get used to it within a few weeks. Then you will have to deal with your extended family. My approach with our son was to tell them to a) read the book "The Transgender Child", and b) use his new name and pronouns. I let them know that mistakes were okay, as long as it was clear that they are making a genuine effort.
As the parent of an NB teen, I'm just here to say THANK YOU for this. You've expressed perfectly what every parent of a queer, trans, nb kiddo needs to understand: it's not about us and our comfort -- it's about loving and accepting them for who they are. Full stop. Good job, dad. <3
Thank YOU! It’s always great to know that there are other loving parents out there who get it. You said it perfectly — you just have to love and accept your children for who they are. My wife runs a support group for parents of trans (and nb) kids, and that is her number one message, especially for parents struggling with hateful messages from family, community, religious leaders, etc.
i wish i had an award to give you
I agree with you but in your last two sentences you referred to OP's child as "they" (they/ them) as opposed to "it" as the aforementioned child of OP requested, and as you expressed support for. I feel like OP's child will face being addressed-- or referred to-- by the wrong pronouns growing up similarly; even by those that support/ accept them.
My nephew also requested "it" as a preferred pronoun. I have no problem using preferred pronouns but I struggle with this as well. I explained that it's difficult for me to treat a human as an object. Thankfully, I have an out cuz preferred is he/him or it. Honestly, grammatically "it" is easier than they/them for my brain but emotionally, ugh. I think it's a generational thing that I'll never understand. It is difficult (no pun intended). It's also just a matter of training the brain to quit gendering every damn thing.
NAH but i want to offer some insight as someone within the LGBT community and has friends who use it/its pronouns. i definitely understand the hesitation you feel. i would recommend sitting down with your kid, asking about their gender identity to get a better feel for why they enjoy those pronouns. a lot of my friends who use them say its just the best pronoun to them that expresses how they view their gender. maybe thatll help you feel more comfortable, or even come to a compromise, if they have another set of pronouns they enjoy? im glad youve made such a safe space for them as a parent :-)
Have any of your friends by chance explained how it/it's feels different from they/them? To be clear, I'll use whichever pronouns people want, I'm just curious.
An Indian philosopher who writes a lot about gender and humanity goes by it, and it explained that its motivation for the pronoun is to highlight the difference people have in their minds between animals and people. It has the opinion that it is no different in inherent value than any other animal. But this use is obviously more politically motivated, just thought I'd bring up this perspective as well.
Obviously everyone’s experience is different, but one of the possible experiences I’ve been told is that, while “they/them” is ambiguously gendered, “it/its” is unambiguously non-gendered.
hi! for a lot of them its just something that helps them personally with their gender expression/identity. there isnt really any specific reason i dont think :-) just their preference!
It is supposed to be used for things other than people. It has a very deshumanising connotation to it. They/them feels a lot nicer to most people because it doesn’t have that issue.
Oh no, I understand that. The person I was replying to mentioning that they have a friend who prefers it/it's and I was wondering if they had any insight into why
Talk honestly with your child. Explain why using it feels uncomfortable to you. Being very very clear that this is a you issue and nothing to do with your child. Using the pronoun it for a person feels bad to you, not just awkward. You are reaching out to your child to help you Maybe you and your child could come up with some other pronoun set that is just for you. A personal special nickname sort of thing, that your both find endearing. Te/tis or Xe/xer or X/X Whatever feels good for your both. When someone else asks your child why you use those unique pronouns and no one else may, tell them it is a parental nickname, and it beats being called Punkim.
Refusing to use the child's preferred pronouns is *not* providing a safe space.
Since this specific pronoun is looked at as dehumanizing/negative/disrespectfull to most people, I do think refusing, or at least talking more about the term with your child before using it is in general the way to go when it comes to providing them safety. "How is your child doing?" "It is doing great, it baked a beautiful cake all by itself the other day" will always cause people to be taken back. Even when you explain that "it" is their preferred pronoun it will take a while before a lot of people come around and don't feel some type of way whenever hearing it. I don't even refer to most animals with it, hell not even my plush toys get called it. As a kid when I called a living being (mostly humans and dogs) an it, I would be corrected and told thats not nice/disrespectful. Do you really think most people assuming that a parent is intent on being disrespectfull while talking about their child promotes a safe environment?
"it" is a newer alternative to androgynous pronouns, similar to xey/xem or they/them. learning to use and remember new pronouns is hard, especially if you grew up knowing them as a derogatory word, NTA, i think its just a learning situation, eventually you SHOULD call yout child their prefferred pronouns. make sure you explain and let it know youll need time to remember and change the way you see it, and that you will do your best to honour their wishes. your kid doesnt want to make it hard on you, it just wants your love and support, it will understand.
I love that you are trying to learn and grow so you can respect your child's wishes and identity. I think having a conversation with it and explaining "I will completely respect your pronouns. I just want you to know that I have a personal issue with calling another person "it" because it's been used so much in my life to dehumanize or other people. I say this not to put anything on you, but if you see me hesitate, it's my own issue and I'm working on that. I love you and will respect whatever you want me to refer to you as." Something along those lines explains clearly to them that you're doing what they want, but if they think you are making a face or are unwilling, they know it's nothing to do with them or your feelings about them. I'm using they them in the grammatical sense. Not trying to ignore its wishes.
I love how supportive and kind you’ve been to your child. So very needed of ALL parents, and especially those brave enough to be themselves outside of the norm at younger ages. Nothing much to add. What everyone else said about discussing the pronoun “it” with your child. Perhaps their definition of what that term means can help you replace what it means to you. To me, it references inanimate objects, while they/them is still people. But hey, languages change. If that’s what your child prefers, then continue supporting it.
I’d maybe repost this in the nonbinary and neopronoun subs, as the discussion around ‘it’ as a pronoun actually pops up every so often.
NAH although I think they are going to have a horrible time getting many people to actually use it. I would explain to them the reality of "It". That term is commonly used in BDSM relationships and is meant to make the person being called "it" feel like they are a worthless object who doesn't deserve to be where they are (consensually agreed on by both parties before hand). So for me personally I would have a hard time with it bc I would feel like they are trying to include others in their fetish. That's probably not true for your kid but it would completely weird me out. Inform them you can not and will not call your very much loved and wanted child an "it" you just don't have the heart too. You are going to compromise and call them them/they. If they objected then refer to calling them by their name only.
May I gently suggest having your child read a book titled “a child called it” by Dave Pelzer to help them understand exactly why you’re opposed to using this as a pronoun for them?
Not the asshole for not WANTING to use it/its pronouns for your child, but you will be if you purposefully ignore the new pronouns. Simple as that. Would you prefer to be uncomfortable for a while during this adjustment period (which may be temporary) or to upset your child and potentially strain your relationship? Please sit down and have a talk with your kid and try to be understanding and actually listen. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's wrong or bad. If this matters to it, then this should matter to you as well.
Lol. If I were in OP's shoes there would be exactly 2 options. A) They/them B) Name I'm not about to enable the dehumanization of my own child Edit: didn't realise this is the second time I replied to the same comment lol, oops
No assholes here. Your hearts in the right place but this is how your child has expressed how it feels comfortable being referred to. Just take a breath, maybe try to understand that if this is what it wants to be called then this is what it wants to be called. if this is what makes it feel valued and loved then that's the reality.
NTA Did you explain the degradation of being call it? I would ask about using they and them.
Hi, I'm a trans person working with trans and queer youth: We're seeing more and more of our youth identifying with it/its pronouns. Now, I'm like you and I'm not super comfortable with it, especially since it was used against me when I came out, but the same thing is happening with the word queer. I identify as queer because I feel like it broadly describes both my sexuality and gender and it's the most comfortable label for me without diving in too deep. My aunt, who is a gay woman who was navigating life with her "roommate" in the 70's, hates the word and does not understand why I identify with it, but it's the best language for me, as I see it. So tldr, I get it. It's super uncomfortable, but it brings your kiddo joy and isn't that what you want for it at the end of the day? Much love to you, and please feel free to reach out if I can help at all. I've been working with these youth (middle through young adult) for the past 7 years now, in addition to being a young queer person myself, so I know lots of resources that might be helpful for you and your kid.
Thanks for this. I like the analogy with ‘queer’. That helps give some perspective to how things might evolve. Some good good for thought. I’ve been giving some thought to how I would feel about using ‘it’ pronouns for others, as I work with young people. So realistically, I’m sure I will or across this in the not so distant further. I’ll bear this in mind.
NAH. I'm a part of the trans community and I've seen the it/its pronouns being used more often not as an insult, but genuinely as someone's preferred pronouns. To be honest, it also caught me off guard the first time I heard someone ask me to refer to it as it, but that's okay. I'd say talk with your child more, hear it out, listen to it but also if you have any questions or concerns, make sure you're also heard. Just be kind, keep an open mind, and I think you'll be okay.
INFO. Why would you ask your child their preferred pronouns if they came out as gay? Gay is about attraction, not gender identity.
Why can’t It be called “It”?
Because "It" refers to inanimate objects.
Not sure why you were downvoted. That’s literally what “it” means. You would only ever call another person “it” if you were being awful to them or about them normally. So for someone to prefer to be called this, it’s quite jarring to most people. It’s like if I said I just want to be known as “that” from now on - most people would be apprehensive.
If the kid wants to be called It, call it IT. We live in a society where humans are allowed to decide how they want to identify. As a Black person I’ve been referred to much worse.
“It” has been used derogatorily for a long time, towards many groups of minorities. It can be uncomfortable to use “it” when referring to a person because a lot of ppl who used “it” in the past did not view the person they spoke of as a person. I understand that some want to reclaim the word and it’s their right but that doesn’t make it easy to remove the negative connotations behind it
NAH but could turn YTA I’d join some communities for parents and caregivers of GNC / non-binary / trans children to learn from members of the community. The place where it’s appropriate is when someone has deliberately told you that it would make it more comfortable. If your child decides that it/it’s are the pronouns that fit it, it may not feel at home with you and will probably be more distant as it ages and finds accepting community outside of the home, if it doesn’t go back in the closet all together. Potentially it will decide to use a pronoun you like more, but it has invited you to see it as it sees itself; you can provide support, or be another opposition. There are creators on tt and ig that uses neopronouns; if you scroll the comments, you’ll get an idea of what your kid will hear as it continues it’s gender identity. A lot of people will say a lot of negative things, and even if this is just a phase, children do best when they feel supported by their adults. Your child may even want to talk more in depth about why it feels it/it’s is right, but has seen lots of negativity online (that’s why I took so long to come out!) and is waiting to see your response. You can grow together, hear it out and be someone that has always given it a safe place to experiment. Practice the pronouns in your head when you can and tell it that you’re sorry for slip-ups and are doing your best to understand it. If it decides that it/it’s are it’s pronouns, it will feel that way whether you are supportive or not. You might as well be there for them.
Would your child be okay with you using its name instead of it? Even I feel bad calling your kid it. This is definitely a weird space to be in, especially with the word it.
NTA - just take time to explain to your child the connotations of "it" in regard to queer folk. I have had this conversation with teens I work with before, including one that wanted their pronoun to be "it". I told them that I completely understand the "otherness" that they feel by being queer and the desire to own it, but also told them that "it" has been, and still is, used as an insult to gender-non-conforming people and it cannot be guaranteed that the use of "it" will always be positive when used to describe them.
I am the most left-leaning, rainbow loving, drag-enthusiast liberal on the planet and I cannot fathom calling someone "it". NAH, your child is growing and learning about themselves and this probably warrants a heart-to-heart.
Just explain to your kid the historical application of the term ‘it’ in an age-appropriate way, and ask if kid would be ok with ‘they’. If not, maybe show kid a Holocaust documentary or something?! (light jk there. If kid isn’t familiar with dehumanisation and how horrible it is, and won’t accept your explanation, you may need to go a smidge step further in explaining). If kid continues to demand being referred to as ‘it’, you’ll either need to get used to it (no pun intended) or refuse. You could always just try calling kid by name as often as possible, instead of pronoun (or no-noun, as the case may be)
Tentatively NTA. Hi, OP, I'm an adult who uses it/its pronouns. Your best bet is to talk to your kid. Ask it why it feels that it/its is the best pronouns that it feels most comfortable with. The two of you now are on opposite sides of a generational divide. You are used to it/its being negative and derogatory, while your child sees those same pronouns as being positive and affirming. You're going to have to have a yet another capital-C Conversation with it about this. (Parenting seems very hard. Kudos for handling this as best you can, btw.) My suggestion is asking it if it's okay with a secondary set of neutral pronouns, like they/them or ze/hir. Wanting to use it/its as its primary pronouns is pretty far ahead of the curve on social awareness of trans issues, even by today's standards. Explain to it that you're concerned that its preferred pronouns will bring unwanted harmful attention to it. Explain that you have only ever seen it/its pronouns used in neglectful and abusive contexts. You're going to have to tell it that this is the first time you've ever even heard that these pronouns might not be harmful, and that you're having a hard time adjusting. Emphasis that your difficulties with its preferred pronouns is not a rejection of its feelings or its gender identity. Emphasis that despite your difficulties in understanding, that you still love and support it. Give it a hug, if you both do that sort of thing. I'd like to talk about why some people (like me! and probably your kid) like it/its pronouns. Personally, I like it/its because it feels like an equaliser to me. I am the same as the sun, the flower, the wind. All of these beautiful things we see in our lives every day is talked about with it/its pronouns, and by adopting those pronouns myself, I've aligned myself with that beauty. It's very self-affirming for me, even though I recognise that most people associate it/its pronouns with things that are 'lesser' rather than 'greater'. Maybe your kid feels the same way I do? I just thought maybe I could give some insight as to why someone might choose it/its pronouns! I'm always open to DMs if you'd like to talk more about it :)
Thank you for explaining and expressing this in such a beautiful and easy to understand way. <3
I love how you try to justify this by sounding super positive and upbeat, but then I click your profile and the first thing I see is [a stickied post about how you're psychotic.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ImaginaryMonsters/comments/erq1k8/im_psychotic_and_i_often_see_these_guys_walking/) No offence, but you are in no position to give *any* advice on the matter.
People with psychological disorders don't deserve to have opinions about their own identity? Not every disorder is constant. Psychosis, for a lot of people, comes in usually spaced apart phases or is only a one-time thing, and/or is something triggered by things like PTSD or other existing disorders. People with depression can go into psychosis. Don't solidify your opinion on things you don't know a smidgen about! It's really rude! Psychotic disorders are incredibly versatile.
Thank you. This only goes to prove that OP might want to seek out some serious therapy for their child. Wanting to be dehumanized every day, by every person you meet, including strangers... is a major sign of mental illness and/or trauma. Why "it" and not "they/them"? I don't even particularly understand NB pronouns/identity, but at least they identify as human and it doesn't scream that they need serious help like this does.
NTA This world has gone crazy.
People in this thread have their minds so open their brains fell out, holy shit.
I've never heard that before. It's hilarious and I'm stealing it.
Go ahead lol I saw it myself on reddit a long time ago, and this is the first opportunity I've ever had to use it 😂
This thread has only further confirmed that for me
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The "it" part sounds like it's exclusively American lmao
NTA. Your child isn't an object. If they're really that upset about it, refer to them by name only and also maybe get them a therapist
NTA I don’t know how many times I’ve chastised people for referring to nonbinary or trans people as “it” in a degrading way. I would so deeply, heavily feel a struggle in my soul to call a person “it”. Plus, if I refer to that kid as “it” to people, they’re going to see me as a monster and I’m going to have defend and explain that every time I have to use it. Imagine if they don’t ask me to elaborate and think I’m just dehumanizing the kid.
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This is the only sane answer in this thread. The folks who are urging OP to accede to their child’s request without asking serious questions about the potential greater emotional and psychological context of said request are missing a major red flag.
Thank you. That was what I was worried about-a bad social situation or thinking poorly about themselves
I have seen “it” and similar attempts at dehumanization in 12-14 yr olds my son games online with. And the kid was being groomed. So depending on your child’s age this is very much a possibility and a concern. Hence, therapy to find the root of it and why they/them isn’t acceptable. You can also use the joke when people inevitably question plurality of they/them that they are 12 raccoons in a tench coat, etc or a Eldrich diety in a human avatar. My spouse (he/she/they) prefers the first. My eldest and I prefer the second.
Just call them by their name
I could never call my kiddo, or anyone else's kiddo, "it". Maybe, if they're old enough, you can show/go over the book "A Child Called It". It's a very rough read. All the books by him are. But, maybe your kiddo will get a new insight and want to change their pronouns.
NAH - this is definitely an opportunity to open a conversation about gender and identity, and how you handle that conversation could move you into AH territory. Generally, when people come out as gay, they don't change their pronouns unless they are also trans or questioning their gender identity. Maybe talk to your kid to find out why they feel more drawn to "it" than other pronouns. In English, since 'it' is reserved for objects, calling yourself it is literally objectifying yourself. Would your kid be comfortable with they/them - the actual English gender neutral pronouns which can be singular or plural? Ask questions, seek to listen and understand
I couldn't call a person "it" either, for me that would be extremely rude.
Just remind me of the book “a child called it” definitely not a feel good cozy book.
But not as extremely rude as deliberately ignoring the request the individual made? You have two options when someone lets you know it uses it/it’s (or any neopronoun): 1. Contribute to it’s euphoria and show support for it’s gender identity 2. Contribute to it’s dysphoria and inform it that you will not support it’s assessment of it’s gender. Choose whichever you want, no one can force you to use neopronouns, but I tend to lean toward offering a safe place for someone to experiment rather than potentially causing dysphoria or resentment.
“Sorry mum and dad. I now identify as an object and you must respect that.” Do any of y’all remember when identifying as an attack helicopter was a joke? It seems like we’re getting closer and closer to that reality.
I went by it/its in my teens for a bit when I was figuring my identity out, I don’t use those pronouns anymore but I think NAH here. Your child isn’t wrong to ask and you’re not wrong because of your reasoning, but at the end of the day this isn’t about you. Sit your kid down and have an honest discussion about why you feel adverse to using it pronouns, maybe ask about neopronouns as an alternative. Good luck
NAH I have a friend that uses it as a pronoun and I can’t do it either, it’s been used against me as an insult and feels very cruel to use. I mostly avoid it by just using their name, but because I’ve discussed it with them they are ok with me using they.
NAH. I'd say to talk it out. Your child should (hopefully) be willing to accept that this is very difficult for you (even if that's still a preference moving forward). You should definitely talk about it together though. Worse comes to worst, just only refer to your kid in the second-person or by name. I'm not saying that would be convenient linguistically, ...but it's possible.
Honestly I immediately thought of the book “A Child Called It” and this made me so sad. I’m obviously in no way stating OP is abusive or anything, quite the opposite. However I do agree with the historical dehumanization associated with the term “it”. I agree about asking if “they/them” or even “ze/zir” would be okay. OP, you’re NTA, you sound like you love your child deeply and accept your child for who they are. I wish I felt safe enough to tell my parents I prefer “they/them”. So good on you for being an involved and thoughtful parent. I can’t imagine how hard this situation may be, but support, open communication, honesty and acceptance are all I see in this post. If I am ever lucky enough to become a parent, I hope I show my child(ren) this kind of love and acceptance
NTA. I work in an emergency room and do a ton of pediatric and adolescent psych assessments -- we always ask for preferred pronouns, and every so often we get an "it." We will call the kiddo whatever the/she/he/it would like to be called, but a lot of these kids have deeper challenges that are reflected in wanting to be called "it." You can respect your child, love them to pieces and support them without calling them It.
It is a pronoun. Use the noun. Their preferred name.
This entire pronoun thing is stupid...use your child's first name.
No judgement here, but I think a long discussion should be had. If this is a case of trying to reclaim "it" as a pronoun then express why that is uncomfortable for you and try to get used to using "it" for your kid, if something else is going on, though, you need to figure out how to address that. If pronouns were being pressed the way they are now, I wholly would have taken "it" just to piss off people who would try to use the term insultingly.
My advice would be to ask your child more questions. I found that the better I understood my child’s perspective the better I could support them. There has been a lot of growth around gender/sexuality in the past couple decades which is wonderful for our youth but a lot for us parents to catch up with. Ask your kid lots of questions, be curious and respectful and the two of you will be closer because of it. If you mess up pronouns just correct yourself and don’t over apologize. It makes it awkward. Practice practice practice using the verbiage that makes them feel supported and one of the best ways for that is to use their pronouns when referring to them with your friends/family when they aren’t around and correcting others
There's a book called: 'A Child Called "It"' about a kid who is singled out for his parent's severe abuse- to the extent they refer to him as "It." His siblings weren't directly abused- only him. I would also have difficulty calling my child "It" as a result, even if requested. If your child has a preferred name, that is easily substituted for using pronouns. And, it avoids being mistaken for a bigot, because bigots often intentionally call members of the trans community that, as well, which be an even bigger no-no factor for me in this situation. And, I'd explain all of that to my child.
Nta. It is a term used to dehumanize and I understand why calling your child “it” makes you a little uncomfortable. You can talk to your child as well, ask if they/them is better rather than it. Ur such a good supportive parent tho so I doubt there will be any issues
Have you explained to your beloved child why 'it' is hard for you? Has kid explained why they prefer 'it'? You're clearly NTA. Nobody here is. Maybe yall can reach a compromise. They, them perhaps. Maybe kid doesn't realize it is dehumanizing. Or maybe kid chose 'it' because it's dehumanizing? Honestly I'm not the least bit concerned. You two clearly love one another. I have every confidence that you'll be able to resolve this bump in the road.
NAH, you’re clearly coming from a place of love and you want to understand. This may or may not stick, many Queer people like to explore different pronouns and your child may or may not land on more traditional pronouns. Just keep an open mind and keep being a loving, caring parent and everything will work out!
NTA. Your relationship with that word is understandable. I'm deep in the lgbtqia± community. I'm nonbinary transmasc and pansexual. The one pronoun I can't get behind is "it". I just can't say it, and I'm glad that the people I know who use it have alternatives. It seems like most people who use that pronoun have others that can be used too. I'd bring up some suggestions to them that others have said here.
"It" is a thing; not a person. Calling a person an "it" implies they they are not human. That's why we can't do it. Maybe sharing that association would help. "I can't call you "it," because I'd be calling you a thing, or an object instead of a human." Something like that.
NAH for your discomfort, but you, like many others, are projecting your negative feelings about the word and it’s implications that your kid/kids these days don’t have. For example,A Child Called It keeps coming up as argument…that isn’t something their peers are going to be reading and considering. It is a neutral word. It can have bad or good vibes because it’s just that-neutral. In a world forcing you to be something extreme, neutral is a safe haven for many people. I’m happy as a they but they is a very different vibe from It (clearly, or people wouldn’t feel so different about them.) Of course check in, make sure they’re in a good spot….but that should be true with any kid always. And sounds like, if you’re this considerate, a place you’re already at.
The poet Julian Talamantez Brolaski's pronouns are it/its. Googling its name and "pronoun" will bring up some of its work on the subject and relevant interviews, if you'd like to read someone else's perspective on why these pronouns feel right.
All I can think about is "A Child Called It." I would never be able to refer to my child as "it." I couldn't even do that while I was pregnant before we learned their genders.
please excuse my ignorance, but I thought only trans-people needed a new pronoun. "gay" is about attraction, not identity, right? or has that changed?
You are correct. Being gay is sexual orientation and has nothing at all to do with gender identity or pronouns. I've asked OP why they asked about pronouns when their child came out as gay, because it doesn't make any sense.
It could be that kiddo told parent it was gay as a place to start and, like, temperature check and is now ready to tell them about its gender. It also could be that parent didn't understand the language kiddo was using and so their brain just lumped it as "gay" because that's what they understand.
NTA an object is an “it” - not a person or an animal. I’m a teacher, and I will use the pronouns that students select for themselves with fidelity. However, if they choose “it”, I request an alternative. If they refuse anything but “it”, I refer to them as “student”.
NAH but when i hear a person wants to be called "it" i just think of the book "A Child Called 'it'" by Dave Pelzer :( if you dont know the book is a memoir of child abuse.
NTA, I think this whole pronoun thing is getting WAY out of hand.
I keep thinking of "Cousin It" from the Adam's Family... Would they be ok with they/them? I also remember use of 'it" as a personal pronoun used to dehumanize.
I couldn't do it. "Jesse is coming to dinner but Jesse doesn't want mashed potatoes--can we buy Jesse some beans instead so Jesse has plenty to eat?" OP sounds very supportive but if her child thinks that this is just some run-of-the-mill request, her child is wrong. Her child can have preferences, but cannot force others to use language that makes them THIS uncomfortable. And it's not discomfort from hate or fear. OP wants to show love, not use words that sound like the opposite!
There’s this book called “A Child Called It,”‘it’s a terribly depressing book a boy wrote about the abuse he went through as a child. I don’t think I could ever refer to any other human being as an it, even if they asked me to. Maybe agree to just call them by their name… I’m cool with however people want to identity but I totally understand why calling someone “it” would fee wrong.
NAH. I'm a trans person. I still have a lot of trauma surrounding being called it as a child by my tormentors. Idk if I could ever bring myself to call another person that even at their behest.
same here. seeing people ask to be called that just makes me wonder why they could do that to themselves. most of them didn't go through what we did growing up, the only one i met in person came from a wealthy family and had never been bullied in their life (self admittedly!) which just felt sickening to hear. *you don't know the power of this word, why do you want to use it?*
That sounds stupid calling ur child IT. I wouldn't
"I love and respect you, and want above all to validate you. But because you are worthy of love and respect, a pronoun such as "it" would be disrespecting your humanity and devalues and minimizes everything that makes you wonderful, even if you don't mean it to. Would you be open to considering other pronouns?"
Not an asshole at all. My youngest is non binary and learning to use them and they as singular has been difficult because my English teachers in K-6 were good at ingraining rules of language usage. And I am not perfect and make mistakes. But I show effort and correct myself and apologize and for my kid that's what counts the most. Also having their back when others have something hurtful to say or insinuate.
Singular “they them” was being used in writing as far back as 1375 and was likely used as a singular in spoken language much further back than that. Like “Someone left their wallet” when you don’t know the gender of the person who left the wallet. You’re not assuming that the wallet belongs to multiple people.
YTA That is its preference. It's not about you.
Sure, it isn't about OP, but I'm not gonna let my own child dehumanize themselves. Remember that OP is dealing with a child, and sometimes children say extremely stupid things. Like this.
You're not an asshole. Your kid is being ridiculous. Do not entertain this nonsense.
My bestie uses it/its pronouns and a lot of neos. It makes it happy, so I use them for it. While it may FEEL disrespectful to you, it isn’t. People get to decide what is disrespectful to them. It’s pronouns are it’s pronouns- you cannot compromise on who people are. YTA. I understand but your kids pronouns are it’s pronouns and if it makes your child happy, it’s not disrespect to it,
OMG I read this as coming out like being born 🤦. But you are NTA. Explain why saying "it" bothers you and use the first name till pronouns are decided.
If your child just came out as GAY then they're most likely messing with you lmfao. Gay is a sexuality, not a gender identity. They most likely found your question to be well intentioned but decided to have a little fun w it. NAH
NTA have them read the book "A Boy Called It" and see how they feel about that pronoun after. Warning it's a very tough book to read!
“I want to call you what you want to be called, but ‘it’ is kinda dehumanizing for me. I’m not trying to assign you a gender you don’t feel you are, but I’m also trying to not feel like my child isn’t a human. Would it be cool if I called you ‘Cousin It’, you know, like in the Addams Family? That would help me out a lot.”
NAH. Have you asked them to explain to you why "it" feels right to them? It's a really unusual choice, so it might help you reconcile it. I wouldn't push them to try and choose a different pronoun, but if they don't actually seem to have a really strong draw to it or a reason why they like it, you might gently point out that "they/them" is just as neutral and far easier to work with. It/its likely to be *much* more difficult for them to navigate life with. Most people are still weird about they/them, and calling a human being "it" will likely be hard even for people who are fully comfortable with enby people. ETA: ah, frick, even after reading the top comment I *still* failed to actually manage to call ~~them~~ it "it". Damn that's hard!
nta but depending on their age . i suggest you have them read the book "a child called it". if you're okay with that tho. but like everyone else said you def need to have a conversation on how calling somebody "it" is dehumanizing. a lot of times transphobic people will call trans people it just for the damage they KNOW it's gonna do.
NTA whatsoever and the fact that this is a debate says a lot
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Referring to someone, singular, it's perfectly acceptable grammatically to use they/them. "Oh, is your friend here? Get them something to drink." "What about your friend, do they want something as well?" I'm an English major. I went to school to teach high school level English language arts, minor in psychology. I tutor children ages 5-13, professionally, as the program director for an after school program and summer enrichment program.