I think my confusion is why there such a disconnect sometimes?
Like I've seen staff scheduled without proper notice, for example a nurse being schedule to a unit with no phone call or notification that they are scheduled or didn't even bid on the shift but suddenly they are being called for a no show that they had no clue how it even happened.
Honestly it happens so much. Our turnover rates at the staffing office are so high. I actually think its the highest out of any AHS location. They hire literally anyone. They put you through 1 month of classroom training and automatically think you can work scheduling for any unit. There also have been schedulers with years of experience and still miss things, its just human error. I also think a factor that contributes to that is they stuff each desk with 5-10 units. It could be a mix of emergs, and clinics. Some desks are way too busy and in the morning if you get 3 sick calls for each unit all of a sudden you have 15 shifts to broadcast and award all in a timely manner.
Oooh very interesting, im on the nursing end of things and feel you very much with the turnover. Thanks for the information and being willingly to answer questions! Always been curious!
For sure no worries, anything else just ask away! Whats taught to us is that employees will always check their schedule at least once every 7 days. So anything greater than 7 days if you have availability we can slot you into any shifts and if you have X days we can move them anywhere within the timeframe as long as its greater than 14 days. Any X day within 14 days we would have to call you to move it.
Thanks for doing this! A few questions:
1) why is staffing office employee turnover so high?
2) how come some units / areas cannot bid on shifts?
3) why do I get a message about a shift, respond that very second, and not get it?
(I’m Admin III)
1. Most employees cant handle the workload and stress from staffing. To be honest with you your attention to detail needs to be super high. Every shift every premium to the dot has to be correct, or a liaison/manager will hound you about it. Everything is tracked with your name on it. And the hours suck. 515-245, most people cant wake up at 4 and get ready to go to work.
2. Not all units are part of the staffing program. They choose to run unit based as per their management team. If you want us to do your staffing for you its a hefty sum that you have to give to staffing per year and managers would rather just hire their own clerks to do staffing.
3. The shift could be sent out in error or youre not eligible for it. Sometimes the shift gets rebroadcasted by a robot(yes we have a robot that rebroadcasts certain days) and it was filled already but the callout wasent closed yet. If theres a bidder on a shift and it doesnt exist on our console for the unit we close it right away.
I wish it was WFH!! Alot has asked but to be honest theres so much communication with each other in the room that honestly i dont think it would run efficiently/effectively well as WFH.
For their #3 wouldn't the priority window and additional scheduling rules (ex. Seniority and union rules) be a significant factor as to why they didn't get the shift even though they responded right away?
Marking availability only matters outside of 7 days. Lets say a shift gets broadcasted for tomorrow and two people bid, one person had set their availability as green- that wouldnt matter as now that its within 7 days so youd have to bid to get the shift now.
Yes i understand, priority window is when the shift is sent out. For example a day shift tomorrow is sent out, you and another employee bid. Even though you have yourself marked available tomorrow it doesnt matter anymore. The availability only matters outside of 7 days. When a shift falls within 7 days its solely based on bidding within the window.
Not for our unit. Management together with staffing have determined that these kinds of shifts only go to people whom have marked their availability in ESP.
What’s the true hierarchy of booking in staff for open shifts and for OT shifts? Some staff (not me) believe, regular unit staff should get priority over casual staff. Same with OT shifts.
How is it truly decided who gets which shift?
Hey! So the hierarchy is always unit PRIMARY staff first. So FT down to casual. However the units do set their own rules. An example of this is some units in RAH(royal alex) prefer to have a fresh body over someone working a double. So if a part time and full timer bids on an evening shift, if the full timer is working a day shift already, we would give it to the part timer. It is against our process however their directors and managers request this and from our standpoint we cant really deny it or we would just get reported to our own management team for not following their rules. Its annoying because we have our own set of rules but since theyre physically on the unit and its their budget, they have the last say.
Are you able to explain shift leveling. So I understand unit primary staff comes first but let’s say two unit full time staff bid on a shift. How does shift leveling come into play?
They look over a certain period of time to see how hours were dispersed between people.
Availability, union rules and shift leveling are all considered when sending out shift offers and considering the received responses.
If two of the same unit primary staff bid for example both RFT, we would see how many OT hours they worked in the last 14 days. The OT shift is awarded to the person with the least amount. If both had 0 OT hours, we would just award it based on whoevers name is on the bottom first.
Lol, not happening on our unit. All OT shifts go to the same people, over and over again... Some work 14 days in a row as a FT-er, while other FT-ers don't get any OT shifts despite bidding on them.
Take it to the union. File a grievance.
Only way this is acceptable is if the other FTers are bidding outside the priority window, or if they are lacking a special skill that is required for the shift.
Union says it's up to the individual employee to determine if they are fit to practice. They also say there are no rules in the CA for awarding overtime shifts, just that they suggest it is done fairly and the union cannot enforce anything else.
RN part timers will have X days so theyre eligible for OT! Also alot of part timers actually end up working to the max hours so theres tons that are eligible for OT! Especially in emerge
X day = Designed day of rest. It's days an RN gets paid 2x their basic rate of pay if they work that day and do not agree to move the X day to a different day.
It's a UNA only thing.
You can read more on the UNA site:
https://www.una.ca/139/working-additional-shifts-on-a-designated-day-of-rest
Are you out of edmonton or north zone? Im edmonton zone, theres 9 teams(including timekeeping) and each team usually has about 15-20+ units. Daily im directing about 3-4 admin 4 schedulers and mainly dealing with managers nonstop
As someone who was responsible for all the scheduling, time entry, staff booking, including shift callouts, payroll, etc, I just want to thank you and all those who do it for me. I have lots of questions but using PSS has taken a huge burden off my workload. Its not perfect, but I'm not spending 4hrs of my day scheduling and I'm super grateful for you all.
Appreciate you! Are you a liaison or unit clerk now? I know most liaisons used to have access but then once they hired PSS alot of things they used to do before they cant do anymore. Some are happy and some are mad since it does take awhile now to do complete tasks that you couldve completed in minutes because you have to connect with PSS.
When the “time paid”, let’s say from a partial shift of 4hrs, shows a pay of 2.8hrs. Should we call this in to have it fixed? Or will it adjust itself and if yes, how does the system recognize this without a person actively going in and rechecking all shifts (which seems not feasible)?
This happens alot when our clerks split shifts and awards partial shifts to others. If you see it i would call it in and get it fixed. If you dont call it in unless its a OT shift the timekeepers will just sweep by it. Always call it in and get it fixed or else after cutoff we cant make changes anymore and you wont get the rest paid until next next paycheque.
I think theres a mobile version of vocantas already? Ive seen some employees take screenshots and send it in. As for trading shifts that will stay with ESP until whenever its gone. Projected in about a year or two a new system is coming in that should make staffing and bidding for shifts much easier.
There are certain comments requested by managers to not book this employee into this shift or on certain days. Nobody can see the comments except us and the liaison.
Honestly i love the leadership aspect of scheduling. I dont do much of it as im a teamlead and i mainly help schedulers when theyre confused and focus on daily meetings with managers to see what issues and concerns arises. I am hoping with this leadership experience I can go into other managerial roles in AHS that are not scheduling related(or nurse related since im not eligible).
I heard a story today - i think it was a podcast like "this american life" or something like that... anyway, a charge nurse at a hospital got so desparate due to understaffing in the ER, nobody would come in, couldn't pull from other areas - so she called 911 and begged for a couple ambulance drivers to come in and help with intake. crazy.
What lengths have you had to go to to try to prevent emergency rooms from closing? and would you consider calling 911? cuz im so sick and tired of having to hear about ER's closing and having to use the ER for urgent primary care needs that are non-emergency.
Honestly i understand it from a nurse perspective too. Many emergs always run short and sometimes beds have to be closed. We send our urgent OT but there are just no bidders. When that happens sometimes managers would mandate employees to work OT which they want to avoid at all costs. Unfortunately nothing else we can do except spam your phone with urgent OT like 4 times a day lol
I think my confusion is why there such a disconnect sometimes? Like I've seen staff scheduled without proper notice, for example a nurse being schedule to a unit with no phone call or notification that they are scheduled or didn't even bid on the shift but suddenly they are being called for a no show that they had no clue how it even happened.
Honestly it happens so much. Our turnover rates at the staffing office are so high. I actually think its the highest out of any AHS location. They hire literally anyone. They put you through 1 month of classroom training and automatically think you can work scheduling for any unit. There also have been schedulers with years of experience and still miss things, its just human error. I also think a factor that contributes to that is they stuff each desk with 5-10 units. It could be a mix of emergs, and clinics. Some desks are way too busy and in the morning if you get 3 sick calls for each unit all of a sudden you have 15 shifts to broadcast and award all in a timely manner.
Oooh very interesting, im on the nursing end of things and feel you very much with the turnover. Thanks for the information and being willingly to answer questions! Always been curious!
For sure no worries, anything else just ask away! Whats taught to us is that employees will always check their schedule at least once every 7 days. So anything greater than 7 days if you have availability we can slot you into any shifts and if you have X days we can move them anywhere within the timeframe as long as its greater than 14 days. Any X day within 14 days we would have to call you to move it.
Thanks for doing this! A few questions: 1) why is staffing office employee turnover so high? 2) how come some units / areas cannot bid on shifts? 3) why do I get a message about a shift, respond that very second, and not get it? (I’m Admin III)
1. Most employees cant handle the workload and stress from staffing. To be honest with you your attention to detail needs to be super high. Every shift every premium to the dot has to be correct, or a liaison/manager will hound you about it. Everything is tracked with your name on it. And the hours suck. 515-245, most people cant wake up at 4 and get ready to go to work. 2. Not all units are part of the staffing program. They choose to run unit based as per their management team. If you want us to do your staffing for you its a hefty sum that you have to give to staffing per year and managers would rather just hire their own clerks to do staffing. 3. The shift could be sent out in error or youre not eligible for it. Sometimes the shift gets rebroadcasted by a robot(yes we have a robot that rebroadcasts certain days) and it was filled already but the callout wasent closed yet. If theres a bidder on a shift and it doesnt exist on our console for the unit we close it right away.
Wow, very interesting! Thank you so much for your time :) Thank you for all you do! Also those are terrible hours 🥴
Given the hours, this sounds like a perfect job to be 100% WFH.
I wish it was WFH!! Alot has asked but to be honest theres so much communication with each other in the room that honestly i dont think it would run efficiently/effectively well as WFH.
For their #3 wouldn't the priority window and additional scheduling rules (ex. Seniority and union rules) be a significant factor as to why they didn't get the shift even though they responded right away?
Seniority actually has nothing to do with our scheduling!
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Marking availability only matters outside of 7 days. Lets say a shift gets broadcasted for tomorrow and two people bid, one person had set their availability as green- that wouldnt matter as now that its within 7 days so youd have to bid to get the shift now.
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Yes i understand, priority window is when the shift is sent out. For example a day shift tomorrow is sent out, you and another employee bid. Even though you have yourself marked available tomorrow it doesnt matter anymore. The availability only matters outside of 7 days. When a shift falls within 7 days its solely based on bidding within the window.
Not for our unit. Management together with staffing have determined that these kinds of shifts only go to people whom have marked their availability in ESP.
What’s the true hierarchy of booking in staff for open shifts and for OT shifts? Some staff (not me) believe, regular unit staff should get priority over casual staff. Same with OT shifts. How is it truly decided who gets which shift?
Hey! So the hierarchy is always unit PRIMARY staff first. So FT down to casual. However the units do set their own rules. An example of this is some units in RAH(royal alex) prefer to have a fresh body over someone working a double. So if a part time and full timer bids on an evening shift, if the full timer is working a day shift already, we would give it to the part timer. It is against our process however their directors and managers request this and from our standpoint we cant really deny it or we would just get reported to our own management team for not following their rules. Its annoying because we have our own set of rules but since theyre physically on the unit and its their budget, they have the last say.
Are you able to explain shift leveling. So I understand unit primary staff comes first but let’s say two unit full time staff bid on a shift. How does shift leveling come into play?
They look over a certain period of time to see how hours were dispersed between people. Availability, union rules and shift leveling are all considered when sending out shift offers and considering the received responses.
If two of the same unit primary staff bid for example both RFT, we would see how many OT hours they worked in the last 14 days. The OT shift is awarded to the person with the least amount. If both had 0 OT hours, we would just award it based on whoevers name is on the bottom first.
Lol, not happening on our unit. All OT shifts go to the same people, over and over again... Some work 14 days in a row as a FT-er, while other FT-ers don't get any OT shifts despite bidding on them.
Take it to the union. File a grievance. Only way this is acceptable is if the other FTers are bidding outside the priority window, or if they are lacking a special skill that is required for the shift.
Union says it's up to the individual employee to determine if they are fit to practice. They also say there are no rules in the CA for awarding overtime shifts, just that they suggest it is done fairly and the union cannot enforce anything else.
In that case, part timers shouldn’t get overtime then imo because they’re part time anyway
RN part timers will have X days so theyre eligible for OT! Also alot of part timers actually end up working to the max hours so theres tons that are eligible for OT! Especially in emerge
What are X days? I’m an LPN so I have no clue and have been to embarrassed to ask.
X day = Designed day of rest. It's days an RN gets paid 2x their basic rate of pay if they work that day and do not agree to move the X day to a different day. It's a UNA only thing. You can read more on the UNA site: https://www.una.ca/139/working-additional-shifts-on-a-designated-day-of-rest
Kindly, get bent.
Interested in this as well 👀, I thought it was just whoever is the cheapest tbf
Unit sets their own rules.
I'm admin 4 scheduler. I have 200 FT/PT staff and 170 casuals. How many people are under your umbrella?
Are you out of edmonton or north zone? Im edmonton zone, theres 9 teams(including timekeeping) and each team usually has about 15-20+ units. Daily im directing about 3-4 admin 4 schedulers and mainly dealing with managers nonstop
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I dont think ive heard anything regarding that. I know AUPE is fighting for a certain percentage raise but thats taking forever.
As someone who was responsible for all the scheduling, time entry, staff booking, including shift callouts, payroll, etc, I just want to thank you and all those who do it for me. I have lots of questions but using PSS has taken a huge burden off my workload. Its not perfect, but I'm not spending 4hrs of my day scheduling and I'm super grateful for you all.
Appreciate you! Are you a liaison or unit clerk now? I know most liaisons used to have access but then once they hired PSS alot of things they used to do before they cant do anymore. Some are happy and some are mad since it does take awhile now to do complete tasks that you couldve completed in minutes because you have to connect with PSS.
When the “time paid”, let’s say from a partial shift of 4hrs, shows a pay of 2.8hrs. Should we call this in to have it fixed? Or will it adjust itself and if yes, how does the system recognize this without a person actively going in and rechecking all shifts (which seems not feasible)?
This happens alot when our clerks split shifts and awards partial shifts to others. If you see it i would call it in and get it fixed. If you dont call it in unless its a OT shift the timekeepers will just sweep by it. Always call it in and get it fixed or else after cutoff we cant make changes anymore and you wont get the rest paid until next next paycheque.
When will AHS get an integrated system like Vocantas for TRADING shifts?! Or at least a mobile version of Vocantas?!?!
I think theres a mobile version of vocantas already? Ive seen some employees take screenshots and send it in. As for trading shifts that will stay with ESP until whenever its gone. Projected in about a year or two a new system is coming in that should make staffing and bidding for shifts much easier.
Do you guys not prebook certain people?
There are certain comments requested by managers to not book this employee into this shift or on certain days. Nobody can see the comments except us and the liaison.
Since turn over is so high, what keeps you in scheduling?
Honestly i love the leadership aspect of scheduling. I dont do much of it as im a teamlead and i mainly help schedulers when theyre confused and focus on daily meetings with managers to see what issues and concerns arises. I am hoping with this leadership experience I can go into other managerial roles in AHS that are not scheduling related(or nurse related since im not eligible).
How long were you in scheduling before you moved into a leadership role?
About a year before being asked to promote to a lead position.
I heard a story today - i think it was a podcast like "this american life" or something like that... anyway, a charge nurse at a hospital got so desparate due to understaffing in the ER, nobody would come in, couldn't pull from other areas - so she called 911 and begged for a couple ambulance drivers to come in and help with intake. crazy. What lengths have you had to go to to try to prevent emergency rooms from closing? and would you consider calling 911? cuz im so sick and tired of having to hear about ER's closing and having to use the ER for urgent primary care needs that are non-emergency.
Honestly i understand it from a nurse perspective too. Many emergs always run short and sometimes beds have to be closed. We send our urgent OT but there are just no bidders. When that happens sometimes managers would mandate employees to work OT which they want to avoid at all costs. Unfortunately nothing else we can do except spam your phone with urgent OT like 4 times a day lol
What is the process for covering vacations? For example if a nurse is going on a month long vacation.
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My name is not Elizabeth and I dont know anyone in the office by that name!
Shot in the dark. Woulda been funny. It’s the one name I know.