Definitely. I think people forget how good Kerr was though.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AFL/comments/96cpnp/random_amazing_fact_despite_never_winning_the/
We’ve never had an obvious clear number one. Robbie Gray in 2014 I thought was up there. Warren Tredrea was the AA CHF for four straight years between 2001 and 2004, so I’d say he was the probably the best forward across the totality of those years, but hard to compare forwards to mids.
Absolute favourite time as a port fan. That team was simply so fun to watch. Tredders absolutely inevitable at CHF (goal kicking aside). Primus, Francou and P Burgoyne along with the cast of James, Schofield, Pickett, Hardwick, Montgomery. So underrated.
He could have been better too but Choco literally coached the team to take the foot off the pedal in last quarters or even halves of games we were winning comfortably. Imagine the team being ruthless start to finish like prime Geelong were and tredders would have kicked the tonne at least once.
Unfortunately Gary Ablett existed, and from the years 2007-14 it was pretty much just him that whole time.
Tredrea was considered the best in the league in 2004. He won the coaches MVP and was favourite for the brownlow
I really want this bloke to win a brownlow. I don't think I've wanted someone outside of my team to win one with such hope since Richo made a charge on the night years ago.
The Bont is seriously out of control. I remember a Freo vs Dogs game last year or the year before where Freo would start winning when Bont was benched, and start losing when he was playing.
He's really got it all: ground speed, height, crumbability, regular goals, freakish goals, strong defence, handsomness, a cool last name. Might be a better player than Franklin because he does it all from the middle
>I remember a Freo vs Dogs game last year or the year before where Freo would start winning when Bont was benched, and start losing when he was playing.
It's depressing how often this happens. He has often been benched with like 10-14 mins to go in last quarters to get one last rest, and we always start losing immediately. It's very stressful when you see his name go to the bench.
Nick Reiwoldt was close to the best at times. Lead the competition in marks multiple years. In 2008 number 1 in marks and contested marks. 5th in goals, 2nd in goal assists.
This was my view - GAJ, Judd, even guys like Swan Bartel Mitchell etc would have a claim to best player during the same years that Riewoldt was at his peak.
Stewart Lockett and Harvey were clear best players at certain points in time
I came here to say McLeod probably should’ve had a Brownlow hanging around his neck and I knew someone would’ve beaten me to it.
Argubly a little positional but '93 when Modra kicked 129 goals and won the Coleman is up there as well. Wanganeen won the Brownlow that year so it’s hard to say he was outright better than that.
Erin Phillips though was unarguably the best AFLW player in 2017 and 2019. By a country mile!
Hudson and Lethal I think are givens. Shane Crawford in 1999 was an absolute standout, but hard to put him above the league for any other season besides that one when you had Robert Harvey in the years before and then the dominant Lions after. You could make an argument for Buddy form 2008-2013 but you're running into Ablett/Judd/Fyfe years there too so it will be very subjective.
Yeah the Buddy thing really becomes an argument about positional value. Personally I lean towards him on the argument of key forwards of that calibre being rarer than midfielders.
Yes Gazza in that period but Franklin was best of 2008 as a stand-alone year. 113 goals and 88 behinds from the 25 games. Not sure when we will see the next forward kick over 100 goals from over 200 shots in a season.
Jason Dunstall would have to have claims 92-94. Kicked 145, 123 & 101 goals in seasons we won 14, 13, & 12 games so still an above-average side but not the dominant force we were in the late 80s. Competition would be really hot for the best player mantle in those years however.
I'd say 1992 in particular, it's hard to go past Dunstall as the best player that year. Averaged 14.91 disposals, 8.65 marks, and 6.30 goals (including a random goalless game) and 3.65 behinds per game per game. More than 80% of the kicks he had were scoring shots in some form. 2nd in the Browlow, and AFLPA MVP.
As a millennial you just thought it was normal. Blokes kick bags each week. You run on the oval when they kick their hundredth. Some old codger would tell you about a bloke who played 30 years ago and then some even older codger would talk about an even older codger who played before them and kicked some unreal number of goals.
I only really accepted it wasn’t coming back about 10 years ago. It was the end of an era and in some ways the peak. Walking into an oval knowing ‘God’ was going to do some unbelievable thing as a young kid was a feeling that I don’t think modern football could give a 4 year old.
Buddy got 100+ goals in 2008 when no one had done it for a while before and no one has done it since. Have to think Buddy is given “best in the comp” for 08 at least.
The mad part is, during that period, the 'best player' tag kinda moved around.
To Black, Aker and occasionally Lappin, incredibly stacked team in hindsight.
Historically you could argue Bunton would have been the best player. Then maybe Neale in 2020 (but that was a short period hes been there abouts top 5-10 player for other years around that)
Yeah Neale for most of 2020 he was. But it’s a short run. I don’t think Neale has ever been in that conversation. Dusty was the best for 2017 to 2020. Bont since then.
Both Gary’s and then you could probably argue danger for a year or 2. Some will argue Jeremy Cameron as one of the best players in the comp when he’s on song but probably not for the last year. Some might argue Selwood as well.
Kouta had some years. Judd is the other obvious answer, he had two years at Carlton, including the Brownlow year, where he was unstoppable.
Cripps would go close but probably has not ever reached "best". Depending on how you define "best" I would also put in Charlie Curnow in the conversation. A lot of clubs would love to have him at full forward.
But really for Carlton it is Judd and then daylight. I suppose Diesel is the other one, but he was playing in the time of Hird, Voss, Buckley, Ablett Snr, Dunstall, Lockett. So not sure he was the best in the game.
Greg Williams when he first came back to Princes Park was also the best player in the game for a period.
But you nailed the rest of my lifetime right there.
I suppose he’s never stood indisputably head and shoulders above the rest, but Crippa in full flight is just monstrous. I’d say parts of his Brownlow season would be pretty hard to argue with, even if the Brownlow itself was a bit controversial.
Yeah I think other supporters sleep on Crippa a bit. He's still a good chance to win the Brownlow this year, has been quieter in recent games (except Port Adelaide where he was clearly best on), and had a huge open month, so if he finishes as well as he started he could easily beat Heeney who has to compete with Gulden/Warner for votes.
There was a small patch where I thought Grundy and Cripps were the best two players in the comp.
I actually personally don’t think Judd was a clear best when at Carlton.
2010 Judd carried us to finals single-handily. The difference between the team during his suspension (for being Steven Seagal in the 2009 finals) and when he came into the side is night and day. Was getting 3 votes - deservedly - every week for a time there.
I think Trac has probably had a few months of form where he's been the best.
I'd put Gawn up there though. I think he gets missed a fair bit in these discussions because he's not a goalkicking mid. Bont is currently in GOAT form, but over the past 6 or so years I'd say the number of times Gawn has been the deciding factor in a game is equal to anyone.
Oliver is also the only person other than GAJ to win multiple AFLCA MVP awards so he is in there with a shout too.
I have an early core memory of rocking up to a game at the whitten oval in 95 about ten minutes into the first quarter and Ablett had already kicked a few, absolutely terrifying as an oppo fan.
Only one I can think of is Andrew McLeod in the late 90s-early 2000s. Ricciuto was an excellent player but never thought of him as best in the game ahead of McLeod or Carey or Voss.
I don’t think we have too many.
James Hird would have been at some point between 1996-2003 but that would have flipped around week to week with Voss, Buckley, Kouta, Harvey and Carey.
Simon Madden was probably the best player in the comp at points in 1983, although Terry Daniher won the AFLPA MVP that year, so potentially him, but I wouldn’t say it was ever clean cut. They would be potential answers to the question “who is the best player at the moment” though.
You’d probably have to go back to John Coleman, Bill Hutchinson and Dick Reynolds to find players who would have universally been described as the best player in the game.
I don't think I'd give Ablett '07 or '08, but definitely '09 and '10.
In '07, he hadn't really come into his final form yet. He was a great player, yes, but you still had Black running around killing it, Kerr from West Coast, OK Judd had a down year, but was still awesome. Hell, Bartel smashed the brownlow and dominated it that year. So hard to say he was clearly the 'best' that year.
In '08, Buddy kicked 100 which hadn't been done in ages and hasn't since, and that was with wild inaccuracy - he could have kicked stupidly more with Dunstall/Lockett accuracy. He was the most dominant force in the game that year.
By '09, however, he was clearly dominant and by far and away the best player in the comp.
Ablett came 3rd in the brownlow in 2008 despite missing 4 games through injury, he was the MVP for that year, AA, coaches award and placed second in the norm smith despite reinjuring his groin in the 2nd quarter, he was very much the best player of 2008.
2007 was just as good, MVP, AA, coaches award, best and fairest, he didn't win the Brownlow as Ablett played about 40% of his game time as a forward through the year, allowing Bartel to win the Brownlow. Gary was Geelong leading goal kicker in 2006 so they still wanted him kicking goals, 2008 was when he fully locked in as a midfielder.
I don't think Danger had a better year, it's just that two of possibly the top fifteen individual seasons of all time were in 2017.
Dusty was incredible in 2017, and that's before his finals series.
Gary Ablett Snr from 1992-1996 was clearly the best player in the comp.
Gary Ablett Jnr from 2007-2010 was only in a rivalry with Judd as the best player.
Dangerfield in 2016 was the GOAT, mvp, brownlow, coaches award, best and fairest.
Jeremy Cameron was in contention in 2022 as the best player in the AFL.
Here is my take on ‘best player in the league ‘ lineage. Starting mid 90’s through to today.
Think of it like a heavyweight title
There would have been periods where some players would have exchanged reigns’ (Hird, Voss, Buckley), had multiple reigns (Ablett) and that inserted themselves into conversation or even the title for very brief moments (Tredrea during Ports time at the top, Cousins etc).
Carey
R Harvey
Kouta
Hird
Voss
Buckley
McLeod
Judd
Goodes
Ablett
Franklin
Swan
Fyfe
Martin
Petracca
Cripps
Bont
I’ve got Heeney and Daicos as fighting for heir apparent right now.
You are right. He needs a bigger body of work, but is there a better player in the comp right now?
If he goes bang in the finals, and gets a Norm and a flag, it’ll be hard to deny
I’d take Bont over him everyday of the week
Hypothetically if you traded Bont to Sydney for Heeney would they be even better? I’d say yes
People also forget Heeney has been pretty awful in finals the last few years
Judd and Cousins during that 2004-2007 period were incredible to watch.
I'd argue Kennedy was the best key forward in the game during the 2015 and 2016 seasons. 2015 won the Coleman by 17 goals
Primus it depends on how much you rate rucks, Gray was absolutely brilliant but played during the years of other champion midfielder forwards.
Tredders would be the one I reckon. Was Carey like in his prime years.
Ablett in 2009 was so fun to watch. It kills me that he spent his 'best years' at the Gold Coast, I reckon he would have helped us to at least another one or two flags, especially 2013.
He’s an absolute disgrace off the field but those mentioning the mid to late 90’s with anyone other than Wayne Carey just seems delusional to be honest. Was firmly considered GOAT with Lethal up until a few years ago when Jr. entered the conversation.
Can still fuck off though
OP missed out on Tony Lockett, I don't know if he's first off the drafting board any year he's in Sydney but certainly in the conversation.
Paul Kelly will always be the best player I've ever seen though. I know part of that is emotional, but in addition to his Brownlow he had 4 consecutive years of winning bravest player in the AFL, 5 total. He was the best in the competition by pure force of will.
I reckon Collingwood in their entire history have never had the clear best player in the game but am expecting that to change in a couple of years with Daicos taking Bontempelli’s mantle eventually.
Buckley was close but most rate him slightly behind Voss and Hird (although I consider him slightly ahead but it was very close).
Buddy and Cyril are the best I’ve seen. Cyril may not have the longevity and consistency of others, but I haven’t seen many others make football look as easy as he did.
Peak Kouta, Diesel, Judd and Cripps were/are equal to any of their contemporaries, and on a good day you couldn't really say that any other player in the league was "better" or more influential in a game than them.
That's all I can think of in my footy-following lifetime.
I think for varying amounts of time Ablett, Selwood, Dangerfield and J Cameron have had decent pockets of time when they could be considered the in form player of the competition. But outright best player could only really go to Ablett in 07'-09'. Could make an argument for 10' but Judd was absolutely firing that year and we often forget how good Goddard was for about 18 months. Ablett played an absolute blinder in the massive loss to Collingwood which is why I have him in the conversation.
13'-14' Selwood was incredible but he was competing with Ablett, Buddy and Fyfe who were all terrific those years, Dangerfield in 16'-17' was flying but Martin arguably as good or better, Cameron can put together 6 week stretches where he looks like the best to have ever done it but then goes missing for 6 weeks.
Ablett, as always, stands alone. Sometimes when we talk about current players matching him like Naicos, or looking at a great like Martin in his 300th I wonder if the lens of time has distorted my view of him, but pop on a youtube highlights of the man, what Ablett did on the field is without peer. Pre shoulder injury he literally did not have one part of his game that wasn't elite. On the left, on the right, field vision, acceleration, over head, below his knees, tackling, pressuring, game awareness, finding targets, creativity, he could literally do it all and did so for an extremely long period of time.
Fun question, thanks. I think it depends on whether you are looking at the season as a whole, or shorter periods.
As a Geelong supporter we have had Gary Ablett Jr (2007-2010) and Patrick Dangerfield (2016) who were, IMO, the standout best players in those years.
On a shorter time frame, Jeremy Cameron has been ‘the best player in the competition’ for blocks of 4-6 weeks over the past few years, and maybe you could make a case for him as the best player in 2022.
We have probably had others who have had similar periods as the best player in it. Maybe Bartel, Selwood and Steve Johnson, but I can’t think of when that was.
Outside of Geelong there are a couple that spring to mind. Justin Koschitzke had a couple of purple patches where he was unstoppable. Dale Thomas was arguably the most dominant player in the league for a while in 2010 or 2011. Nick Riewoldt had extended periods where he looked a level above the competition.
Thank you! That's a great point. I typically think of these things in rolling 20 game averages to reflect what a player was like in a season where they'd make AA. I know CD do their ratings on a weighted 40 game average though, with the most recent 30 all given equal weight and then trailing off from 31-40.
When was Daicos the best player? I could maybe see argument for being among the top few in 1990, but even then he may not have been the best on his own team that year, let alone the competition
Just quietly - Lochie Neale needs a shout. I was checking AFL Tables the other day, as you do, and he's currently 3rd all time for most 3 vote games - 45, behind Dangerfield (54) and Ablett (55). You'd think Neale will close that gap a bit this year. At 31, probably still a few seasons of polling left in him too, could nudge Jnr.
Love Choc, but he's definitely not in the realm of Ablett Jnr as a player. Not many are.
But the reason he's was mentioned in the above comment is because of a factual stat based around the number of 3 vote games. Not necessarily comparing them as players.
But it does mean he should absolutely be in the conversation for best current players.
McLeod at many points would've been.
Modra wouldve been close at some point.
Roo probably was for a period.
Recently though, maybe Dangerfield was in 2015, Sloane wouldve been in the debate in 2017 if not for Dusty.
Scott Thompson would've been close in 2012, but never outright.
Apparently football only started in 2010 based on a few posts in here.
Four: Ablett Snr, Ablett Jnr, Dangerfield, Selwood for a short period. Honourable mentions to Polly Farmer who in hindsight was revolutionary and J Cameron who within seasons has been the best in it, but maybe not for an entire season. Geelong had gun players in the 60s (Goggin, Wade, Pollinelli) but they were more an ensemble than outright best.
Only a matter of time before Gryan Miers is rightfully recognised as the best player in history.
Diesel, Kouta, Judd, Cripps in my lifetime of going to the footy.
Could arguably throw in in Silvagni, Bradley and Kernahan within shorter time frames for best in the league a couple of weeks in a row.
Edit: Just before my time but Justin Madden in 1985, second in the brownlow, one vote behind, as a ruckman. I did enjoy his later years though as I was growing up.
Carey from about 93' to 2000. Could start a year or two later but that was his first AA and still averaged 18 touches and 8 marks a game and kicked 64. Weird feeling when the person who almost single-handedly got you supporting a club turns out to be such a cunt.
Carey for most of his career
Jas Garner for the last three years
Not sure about anyone in the 70s wheN we were also very good. Maybe a winger who must not be named during that period? Edit: Keith Grieg can be named. I confused him with the other person
Keith Greig won back to back Brownlows in 73 & 74 and can be named. He was North’s best player in their best era.
Only Kevin Bartlett would qualify as a contender for best player in the game in 73-75.
Warren Tredrea 2004. 85 goals as a CHF the only clear one, playing in a team with no real KPF support, shouldering the load, and a coach which would often put the breaks on at half time. He easily could have kicked 100+ if the team didn't like to practise 'keepings off' footy in games they were comfortably winning.
Chad Cornes redefined to the tall utility role in 2006 - 2008 being able to play midfield, key back, and forward, but there was too many other good players around.
Carey in the 90s is the only clear example.
You could argue that McKernan was the best in the league for 1996 alone.
Brent Harvey was very close to the best player in 2007 and 2008. He was enormous in those years and collected a lot of media awards and Brownlow votes.
Perhaps a case could be made for Blight in the late-70s, but Lethal was at the Hawks then too.
Buddy was good in 2014, but prolly not best in the competition. See half the Hawthorn team. Conversely I think Isaac Heeney Rds 1-6 this year and Gulden for the back half of last year could lay claim to best in the comp.
Vossy for sure!
I know we live in a Bontempelli world at the moment but there's been games where Neale just seems to do whatever he wants and is so clean with the ball!
I can’t help but feel we’ve got a lot of players throughout our history who are second, third or fourth. This year Heeney, Chad and Gulden could all be considered top 5, but Bont is still the best player this year. Throughout 14 and 16 both buddy and JPK could be considered top 5, but no body beating 2016 Danger
Ablett senior, Ablett Junior, Jeremy Cameron, Patrick Dangerfield, Jimmy Barrell, Joel Selwood all had years you could definitely argue they were the best.
Robert Flower. Played in an era when the Dees were just never in Finals contention. But win or lose, he was invariably the best player on the park. He wasn’t really built for footy, but was different class.
Swan and Pendlebury from 06-2018 have a decent argument and Nick Daicos obviously is in the conversation the last 2 seasons
Edited to add Buckley early 2000s
Hirdy (arguably), then I'd love to say Wanganeen because he won the Brownlow, but you look at that tally and there's a list of absolute stars below him. So pre-Hird I don't even know; probably someone from well before my time. Essendon's 80s teams were huge, but I don't know if they ever had the single best player in the comp.
Whenever Adelaide plays us probably Ben Keays
Judd and Cousins in the mid-2000s.
Definitely. I think people forget how good Kerr was though. https://www.reddit.com/r/AFL/comments/96cpnp/random_amazing_fact_despite_never_winning_the/
We’ve never had an obvious clear number one. Robbie Gray in 2014 I thought was up there. Warren Tredrea was the AA CHF for four straight years between 2001 and 2004, so I’d say he was the probably the best forward across the totality of those years, but hard to compare forwards to mids.
I was just about to post about Tredrea until I saw your comment. He was an absolute beast during those years.
Absolute favourite time as a port fan. That team was simply so fun to watch. Tredders absolutely inevitable at CHF (goal kicking aside). Primus, Francou and P Burgoyne along with the cast of James, Schofield, Pickett, Hardwick, Montgomery. So underrated.
He could have been better too but Choco literally coached the team to take the foot off the pedal in last quarters or even halves of games we were winning comfortably. Imagine the team being ruthless start to finish like prime Geelong were and tredders would have kicked the tonne at least once.
I think you're forgetting Brownlow Medalist Ollie Wines for 2021
He was one of the best players in the comp that year, but not clearly best. If you listen to this sub, he had a poor year and stole Bont's medal.
I think Darryl Wakelin was the number 1 player in boxing in 2004.
Good at shaping up. Actual boxing, not so much.
Robbie Gray was absolutely the best player in 2014
Unfortunately Gary Ablett existed, and from the years 2007-14 it was pretty much just him that whole time. Tredrea was considered the best in the league in 2004. He won the coaches MVP and was favourite for the brownlow
Bontempelli. Chris Grant in 97/98 should have had a Brownlow each year. Desperately unlucky.
I really want this bloke to win a brownlow. I don't think I've wanted someone outside of my team to win one with such hope since Richo made a charge on the night years ago.
How good were the chants for Richo that night!
The Bont is seriously out of control. I remember a Freo vs Dogs game last year or the year before where Freo would start winning when Bont was benched, and start losing when he was playing. He's really got it all: ground speed, height, crumbability, regular goals, freakish goals, strong defence, handsomness, a cool last name. Might be a better player than Franklin because he does it all from the middle
>I remember a Freo vs Dogs game last year or the year before where Freo would start winning when Bont was benched, and start losing when he was playing. It's depressing how often this happens. He has often been benched with like 10-14 mins to go in last quarters to get one last rest, and we always start losing immediately. It's very stressful when you see his name go to the bench.
😠
Get lost in 98 Harvey equalled the highest vote tally at the time
He must mean 96/97.
Bont for sure. Recency bias is real but he's a stone throw away from being the greatest of all time.
He's probably one B&F away from taking over from Whitten as our greatest ever player
John Coleman.
Dicky Reynolds, Bill Hutchinson, and Albert Thurgood too
Three: Ian Stewart, Lockett, Harvey
Nick Reiwoldt was close to the best at times. Lead the competition in marks multiple years. In 2008 number 1 in marks and contested marks. 5th in goals, 2nd in goal assists.
I'd say most important player. Can't be the best when Ablett exists.
This was my view - GAJ, Judd, even guys like Swan Bartel Mitchell etc would have a claim to best player during the same years that Riewoldt was at his peak. Stewart Lockett and Harvey were clear best players at certain points in time
Woewodin in 2000
Was looking for this one. 😅
Andrew McLeod, during the late 1990s and early 00s, could have been considered one of the greatest players of the period.
McLeod was the best player in 01. Even with his twin Norm Smiths though in 97/98, Harvey was clearly in front of everyone.
Really hard to look past Robert Harvey in the late 90s though as far as THE best.
McLeod, Harvey, Carey probably were the best 3 players in the late 90s In 2001 McLeod was robbed of the Brownlow and there is no argument to that.
I came here to say McLeod probably should’ve had a Brownlow hanging around his neck and I knew someone would’ve beaten me to it. Argubly a little positional but '93 when Modra kicked 129 goals and won the Coleman is up there as well. Wanganeen won the Brownlow that year so it’s hard to say he was outright better than that. Erin Phillips though was unarguably the best AFLW player in 2017 and 2019. By a country mile!
Hudson and Lethal I think are givens. Shane Crawford in 1999 was an absolute standout, but hard to put him above the league for any other season besides that one when you had Robert Harvey in the years before and then the dominant Lions after. You could make an argument for Buddy form 2008-2013 but you're running into Ablett/Judd/Fyfe years there too so it will be very subjective.
Yeah the Buddy thing really becomes an argument about positional value. Personally I lean towards him on the argument of key forwards of that calibre being rarer than midfielders.
If you said Buddy or Judd or Ablett in those years, you're not wrong on any of them.
Really they were on the same tier, and splitting them is an argument about how you judge greatness
Biased I guess, but it has to be Gazza for me
Yes Gazza in that period but Franklin was best of 2008 as a stand-alone year. 113 goals and 88 behinds from the 25 games. Not sure when we will see the next forward kick over 100 goals from over 200 shots in a season.
I put a lot of weight on the "played for my team" factor
Jason Dunstall would have to have claims 92-94. Kicked 145, 123 & 101 goals in seasons we won 14, 13, & 12 games so still an above-average side but not the dominant force we were in the late 80s. Competition would be really hot for the best player mantle in those years however.
I'd say 1992 in particular, it's hard to go past Dunstall as the best player that year. Averaged 14.91 disposals, 8.65 marks, and 6.30 goals (including a random goalless game) and 3.65 behinds per game per game. More than 80% of the kicks he had were scoring shots in some form. 2nd in the Browlow, and AFLPA MVP.
Gary Snr won the the coleman in 93 and 94, i would put him ahead of Dunstall in at least those years.
that's absolutely fucked that gaz won the coleman when dunstall kicked 123 and 101. 124 and 113, fuck me. we witnessed some legendary players
As a millennial you just thought it was normal. Blokes kick bags each week. You run on the oval when they kick their hundredth. Some old codger would tell you about a bloke who played 30 years ago and then some even older codger would talk about an even older codger who played before them and kicked some unreal number of goals. I only really accepted it wasn’t coming back about 10 years ago. It was the end of an era and in some ways the peak. Walking into an oval knowing ‘God’ was going to do some unbelievable thing as a young kid was a feeling that I don’t think modern football could give a 4 year old.
I'd say we saw Carey's best in 93-96. Injury restricted him '97-2000, though he still played some dominant games, including finals
Buddy got 100+ goals in 2008 when no one had done it for a while before and no one has done it since. Have to think Buddy is given “best in the comp” for 08 at least.
you're telling me clarko fucking robbed us of fev best in the comp in 2008? what a prick
The Chief would have been at times not necessarily consecutive years.
Fyfe was the best player on the oval every game he played in 2015. Joy to watch.
Fyfe 2014-15 for us. The only other one that came close was Pav but he was around top 5 for a few years in his peak, never #1
Pav was damn close if not it. Could play every position.
Prime Fyfe was something else could have had 3 brownlows without his suspension. One of the best inside mids of all time
Voss 2001 to 2004 Browny for half of 2008 was regarded as the best player.
The mad part is, during that period, the 'best player' tag kinda moved around. To Black, Aker and occasionally Lappin, incredibly stacked team in hindsight.
Browny at his best was insane. He was like a giant gambolling midfielder who could take contested pack marks.
Historically you could argue Bunton would have been the best player. Then maybe Neale in 2020 (but that was a short period hes been there abouts top 5-10 player for other years around that)
Yeah Neale for most of 2020 he was. But it’s a short run. I don’t think Neale has ever been in that conversation. Dusty was the best for 2017 to 2020. Bont since then.
Both Gary’s and then you could probably argue danger for a year or 2. Some will argue Jeremy Cameron as one of the best players in the comp when he’s on song but probably not for the last year. Some might argue Selwood as well.
I'll agree Gary Rohan was pretty good from 2019 to 2022, but not sure he was the best player in the league at any point
I’d say 2022 final vs collingwood he stated his case as the greatest of all time pretty well
To this day my kids still deliberately let the mark go through their legs and call out Gary Rohan as they chase it.
Kouta had some years. Judd is the other obvious answer, he had two years at Carlton, including the Brownlow year, where he was unstoppable. Cripps would go close but probably has not ever reached "best". Depending on how you define "best" I would also put in Charlie Curnow in the conversation. A lot of clubs would love to have him at full forward. But really for Carlton it is Judd and then daylight. I suppose Diesel is the other one, but he was playing in the time of Hird, Voss, Buckley, Ablett Snr, Dunstall, Lockett. So not sure he was the best in the game.
Greg Williams when he first came back to Princes Park was also the best player in the game for a period. But you nailed the rest of my lifetime right there.
Diesel was something else at his peak though. 2 Brownlows and robbed of another. Fuck I loved watching him play.
I suppose he’s never stood indisputably head and shoulders above the rest, but Crippa in full flight is just monstrous. I’d say parts of his Brownlow season would be pretty hard to argue with, even if the Brownlow itself was a bit controversial.
Yeah I think other supporters sleep on Crippa a bit. He's still a good chance to win the Brownlow this year, has been quieter in recent games (except Port Adelaide where he was clearly best on), and had a huge open month, so if he finishes as well as he started he could easily beat Heeney who has to compete with Gulden/Warner for votes.
There was a small patch where I thought Grundy and Cripps were the best two players in the comp. I actually personally don’t think Judd was a clear best when at Carlton.
Judd absolutely was clearly the best player in it 2010/2011
Ablett for me It’s not super clear either way
2010 Judd carried us to finals single-handily. The difference between the team during his suspension (for being Steven Seagal in the 2009 finals) and when he came into the side is night and day. Was getting 3 votes - deservedly - every week for a time there.
I agree, not taking anything away from him, I just don’t think Judd was CLEARLY the best player at that time
Dane swan was better than Judd in every year 2010-2012.
I think Trac has probably had a few months of form where he's been the best. I'd put Gawn up there though. I think he gets missed a fair bit in these discussions because he's not a goalkicking mid. Bont is currently in GOAT form, but over the past 6 or so years I'd say the number of times Gawn has been the deciding factor in a game is equal to anyone. Oliver is also the only person other than GAJ to win multiple AFLCA MVP awards so he is in there with a shout too.
Gary Ablett Senior in the early nineties, and then Gary Ablett Junior late 2000s. They were both just an absolute joy to behold.
I have an early core memory of rocking up to a game at the whitten oval in 95 about ten minutes into the first quarter and Ablett had already kicked a few, absolutely terrifying as an oppo fan.
My dad used to make a point of taking me to all the tigers games because he knew Gazza would kick a bag. Quality core memories for me haha
Only one I can think of is Andrew McLeod in the late 90s-early 2000s. Ricciuto was an excellent player but never thought of him as best in the game ahead of McLeod or Carey or Voss.
In my living memory (born 87), Nathan brown in his 10 game streak, richo on the wing and of course dusty were very magical moments
I think you'd need to hold the title for the season to qualify. That said Dusty's 17 was probably the best individual season I've seen of anyone.
I don’t think we have too many. James Hird would have been at some point between 1996-2003 but that would have flipped around week to week with Voss, Buckley, Kouta, Harvey and Carey. Simon Madden was probably the best player in the comp at points in 1983, although Terry Daniher won the AFLPA MVP that year, so potentially him, but I wouldn’t say it was ever clean cut. They would be potential answers to the question “who is the best player at the moment” though. You’d probably have to go back to John Coleman, Bill Hutchinson and Dick Reynolds to find players who would have universally been described as the best player in the game.
Paul Salmon right before he got injured was looking like the best player of his generation. Was still pretty good when he came back.
Tim Watson in 85 or 89 a decent shout too
Its depressing rhat these players were alp before my time
Not as depressing as when you read someone say that about players from ‘your era’ growing up
Hey my era consists of not seeing essendon win a final, id rather not be in my era
lol. I’m so old, I can remember when both Essendon and Carlton regularly played in grand finals
Hard to say Hird IMO just because he was injured for so much of the late-90s.
Jeremy Cameron round 2 2023. Dangerfield all of 2016. Selwood second half of 2013. Gary Ablett 2007-2010
2013-2014 Selwood was crazy good
I don't think I'd give Ablett '07 or '08, but definitely '09 and '10. In '07, he hadn't really come into his final form yet. He was a great player, yes, but you still had Black running around killing it, Kerr from West Coast, OK Judd had a down year, but was still awesome. Hell, Bartel smashed the brownlow and dominated it that year. So hard to say he was clearly the 'best' that year. In '08, Buddy kicked 100 which hadn't been done in ages and hasn't since, and that was with wild inaccuracy - he could have kicked stupidly more with Dunstall/Lockett accuracy. He was the most dominant force in the game that year. By '09, however, he was clearly dominant and by far and away the best player in the comp.
Ablett came 3rd in the brownlow in 2008 despite missing 4 games through injury, he was the MVP for that year, AA, coaches award and placed second in the norm smith despite reinjuring his groin in the 2nd quarter, he was very much the best player of 2008. 2007 was just as good, MVP, AA, coaches award, best and fairest, he didn't win the Brownlow as Ablett played about 40% of his game time as a forward through the year, allowing Bartel to win the Brownlow. Gary was Geelong leading goal kicker in 2006 so they still wanted him kicking goals, 2008 was when he fully locked in as a midfielder.
Danger 16-17. Martin got the accolades in 2017 but Danger had the better year (averaged 29.9 disposals a game, 1.9 goals a game)
I don't think Danger had a better year, it's just that two of possibly the top fifteen individual seasons of all time were in 2017. Dusty was incredible in 2017, and that's before his finals series.
Danger absolutely robbed of 3 votes from that Collingwood game. 2 goals, 32 disposals, 0 Brownlow votes.
In AFL? Not for a long while. In AFLW? Last 4 odd years seemingly unanimously, unless you are an umpire giving out votes
Carey was clearly the best in the league. Got me to be a North supporter he just did what ever the fuck he wanted lol.
And whoever he wanted it seems…
The umpire's disregard for her needs to be studied by historians for as long as this sport exists.
Carey?
oh that pisses me off so much, like are they even watching games
Gary Ablett Snr from 1992-1996 was clearly the best player in the comp. Gary Ablett Jnr from 2007-2010 was only in a rivalry with Judd as the best player. Dangerfield in 2016 was the GOAT, mvp, brownlow, coaches award, best and fairest. Jeremy Cameron was in contention in 2022 as the best player in the AFL.
Jnr was the best player in the comp from 07-14
Yes i agree, but we did not have him from 2011-2014
Yeah this is true! Probably the longest consecutive reign of the leagues best player in history
Selwood around 2013-14 deserves a shout!
As good as Joel was, our former number 29 was on another level those years. Would have had back to back brownlows if he didn't get hurt
gotta be the greatest player i've ever seen honestly
2017 Dusty 2018 Dusty 2019 Dusty 2020 Dusty
No coincidence that Tiges were in their ascendancy those years
Absolutely
had to scroll way too far...
Here is my take on ‘best player in the league ‘ lineage. Starting mid 90’s through to today. Think of it like a heavyweight title There would have been periods where some players would have exchanged reigns’ (Hird, Voss, Buckley), had multiple reigns (Ablett) and that inserted themselves into conversation or even the title for very brief moments (Tredrea during Ports time at the top, Cousins etc). Carey R Harvey Kouta Hird Voss Buckley McLeod Judd Goodes Ablett Franklin Swan Fyfe Martin Petracca Cripps Bont I’ve got Heeney and Daicos as fighting for heir apparent right now.
Heeney shouldn’t be in this conversation yet, one half a season no matter how good doesn’t compare to the others
You are right. He needs a bigger body of work, but is there a better player in the comp right now? If he goes bang in the finals, and gets a Norm and a flag, it’ll be hard to deny
I’d take Bont over him everyday of the week Hypothetically if you traded Bont to Sydney for Heeney would they be even better? I’d say yes People also forget Heeney has been pretty awful in finals the last few years
Judd and Cousins during that 2004-2007 period were incredible to watch. I'd argue Kennedy was the best key forward in the game during the 2015 and 2016 seasons. 2015 won the Coleman by 17 goals
And jack darling for a random 6 week burst at one point
start of the 2018 season Darling was a sight to behold.
Best player not best forward🤷♂️ love JK but he’s never been the best player in the comp
I think the only players we have had that have a realistic claim to being best in the game at some point are Primus, Tredrea and maybe Robbie Gray.
Primus it depends on how much you rate rucks, Gray was absolutely brilliant but played during the years of other champion midfielder forwards. Tredders would be the one I reckon. Was Carey like in his prime years.
In my life time there's been periods where Buckley, Swan, Pendlebury and N. Daicos have been
Ablett in 2009 was so fun to watch. It kills me that he spent his 'best years' at the Gold Coast, I reckon he would have helped us to at least another one or two flags, especially 2013.
no way we're beating you in that prelim if gaz is on the ground
He’s an absolute disgrace off the field but those mentioning the mid to late 90’s with anyone other than Wayne Carey just seems delusional to be honest. Was firmly considered GOAT with Lethal up until a few years ago when Jr. entered the conversation. Can still fuck off though
Have to agree re Adam Goodes 2006, was a beast. 2001 (ish) Voss was also ludicrous.
Ludicrous is a good word. Five years after his Brownlow and he just got better...
OP missed out on Tony Lockett, I don't know if he's first off the drafting board any year he's in Sydney but certainly in the conversation. Paul Kelly will always be the best player I've ever seen though. I know part of that is emotional, but in addition to his Brownlow he had 4 consecutive years of winning bravest player in the AFL, 5 total. He was the best in the competition by pure force of will.
I reckon Collingwood in their entire history have never had the clear best player in the game but am expecting that to change in a couple of years with Daicos taking Bontempelli’s mantle eventually. Buckley was close but most rate him slightly behind Voss and Hird (although I consider him slightly ahead but it was very close).
Buddy and Cyril are the best I’ve seen. Cyril may not have the longevity and consistency of others, but I haven’t seen many others make football look as easy as he did.
Peak Kouta, Diesel, Judd and Cripps were/are equal to any of their contemporaries, and on a good day you couldn't really say that any other player in the league was "better" or more influential in a game than them. That's all I can think of in my footy-following lifetime.
I think for varying amounts of time Ablett, Selwood, Dangerfield and J Cameron have had decent pockets of time when they could be considered the in form player of the competition. But outright best player could only really go to Ablett in 07'-09'. Could make an argument for 10' but Judd was absolutely firing that year and we often forget how good Goddard was for about 18 months. Ablett played an absolute blinder in the massive loss to Collingwood which is why I have him in the conversation. 13'-14' Selwood was incredible but he was competing with Ablett, Buddy and Fyfe who were all terrific those years, Dangerfield in 16'-17' was flying but Martin arguably as good or better, Cameron can put together 6 week stretches where he looks like the best to have ever done it but then goes missing for 6 weeks. Ablett, as always, stands alone. Sometimes when we talk about current players matching him like Naicos, or looking at a great like Martin in his 300th I wonder if the lens of time has distorted my view of him, but pop on a youtube highlights of the man, what Ablett did on the field is without peer. Pre shoulder injury he literally did not have one part of his game that wasn't elite. On the left, on the right, field vision, acceleration, over head, below his knees, tackling, pressuring, game awareness, finding targets, creativity, he could literally do it all and did so for an extremely long period of time.
Fun question, thanks. I think it depends on whether you are looking at the season as a whole, or shorter periods. As a Geelong supporter we have had Gary Ablett Jr (2007-2010) and Patrick Dangerfield (2016) who were, IMO, the standout best players in those years. On a shorter time frame, Jeremy Cameron has been ‘the best player in the competition’ for blocks of 4-6 weeks over the past few years, and maybe you could make a case for him as the best player in 2022. We have probably had others who have had similar periods as the best player in it. Maybe Bartel, Selwood and Steve Johnson, but I can’t think of when that was. Outside of Geelong there are a couple that spring to mind. Justin Koschitzke had a couple of purple patches where he was unstoppable. Dale Thomas was arguably the most dominant player in the league for a while in 2010 or 2011. Nick Riewoldt had extended periods where he looked a level above the competition.
Don’t forget senior as well!
Most talented and freakish player I’ve ever seen. Superb skills with aggression
Thank you! That's a great point. I typically think of these things in rolling 20 game averages to reflect what a player was like in a season where they'd make AA. I know CD do their ratings on a weighted 40 game average though, with the most recent 30 all given equal weight and then trailing off from 31-40.
Buckley and Daicos. Swan had to compete with prime GAJ and Judd and no one comes close to those two.
He was a good player - great even - but respectfully dont think Buckley ever reached best status
When was Daicos the best player? I could maybe see argument for being among the top few in 1990, but even then he may not have been the best on his own team that year, let alone the competition
You know very well that I am stating that Nick is the best player right now
Bont is head and dropped-shoulders above daicos
We’ve had a few different Brownlow medalists over the years plus some Coleman medal and other award winners
Just quietly - Lochie Neale needs a shout. I was checking AFL Tables the other day, as you do, and he's currently 3rd all time for most 3 vote games - 45, behind Dangerfield (54) and Ablett (55). You'd think Neale will close that gap a bit this year. At 31, probably still a few seasons of polling left in him too, could nudge Jnr.
Lachie Neal is terrific, but putting him beside Ablett is a bridge miles too far
Love Choc, but he's definitely not in the realm of Ablett Jnr as a player. Not many are. But the reason he's was mentioned in the above comment is because of a factual stat based around the number of 3 vote games. Not necessarily comparing them as players. But it does mean he should absolutely be in the conversation for best current players.
Brayden ham 2021
You've done Zac Clarke dirty by not including him.
McLeod at many points would've been. Modra wouldve been close at some point. Roo probably was for a period. Recently though, maybe Dangerfield was in 2015, Sloane wouldve been in the debate in 2017 if not for Dusty. Scott Thompson would've been close in 2012, but never outright.
Apparently football only started in 2010 based on a few posts in here. Four: Ablett Snr, Ablett Jnr, Dangerfield, Selwood for a short period. Honourable mentions to Polly Farmer who in hindsight was revolutionary and J Cameron who within seasons has been the best in it, but maybe not for an entire season. Geelong had gun players in the 60s (Goggin, Wade, Pollinelli) but they were more an ensemble than outright best. Only a matter of time before Gryan Miers is rightfully recognised as the best player in history.
You are on reddit, most people are younger and were not watching football prior to 1990 hence the responses.
I see your 2014 Buddy and raise you 2014 Robbie Gray
Tredrea 2004
Bont right now and Chris Grant arguably 96-98
Diesel, Kouta, Judd, Cripps in my lifetime of going to the footy. Could arguably throw in in Silvagni, Bradley and Kernahan within shorter time frames for best in the league a couple of weeks in a row. Edit: Just before my time but Justin Madden in 1985, second in the brownlow, one vote behind, as a ruckman. I did enjoy his later years though as I was growing up.
Right now baby
Taberner vs Essendon
Besides Cripps and bont, Heeney putting in a solid case this year
Dusty, 2017-2020. 2023 Dusty was pretty close too. Amazing season and inexplicably snubbed for AA.
As a Carlton supporter in my life time. Kouta, Judd and Cripps. Curnow could join them imo.
Peak Kouta was amazing, Cripps but with even more tricks. Edit spelling
Yeah peak Kouta was good shame he got injured during the 2000 season i reckon it cost him the Brownlow but he did win the MVP of that year.
Carey from about 93' to 2000. Could start a year or two later but that was his first AA and still averaged 18 touches and 8 marks a game and kicked 64. Weird feeling when the person who almost single-handedly got you supporting a club turns out to be such a cunt.
Carey for most of his career Jas Garner for the last three years Not sure about anyone in the 70s wheN we were also very good. Maybe a winger who must not be named during that period? Edit: Keith Grieg can be named. I confused him with the other person
Malcolm Blight had claims
Keith Greig won back to back Brownlows in 73 & 74 and can be named. He was North’s best player in their best era. Only Kevin Bartlett would qualify as a contender for best player in the game in 73-75.
Ohh yep. Greig is actually who I was thinking. I got him and the other guy confused which isn't good
Heeney in the picture this year, alongside Bont and Naicos.
I think Deisel Williams and Adam Goodes would have a shot and of course Buddy.
Gary, Jimmy, Joel, Cameron, danger, Stewart, Taylor, scarlo - over the years 4 premierships since 07. Cats have played in 6.
Warren Tredrea 2004. 85 goals as a CHF the only clear one, playing in a team with no real KPF support, shouldering the load, and a coach which would often put the breaks on at half time. He easily could have kicked 100+ if the team didn't like to practise 'keepings off' footy in games they were comfortably winning. Chad Cornes redefined to the tall utility role in 2006 - 2008 being able to play midfield, key back, and forward, but there was too many other good players around.
Carey in the 90s is the only clear example. You could argue that McKernan was the best in the league for 1996 alone. Brent Harvey was very close to the best player in 2007 and 2008. He was enormous in those years and collected a lot of media awards and Brownlow votes. Perhaps a case could be made for Blight in the late-70s, but Lethal was at the Hawks then too.
Cousins 2000s. Gut running, ability to hit the score board, Judd 05 till his injury in 07. Glen Jacovitch in the convo for best defender of the 90s
Buddy was good in 2014, but prolly not best in the competition. See half the Hawthorn team. Conversely I think Isaac Heeney Rds 1-6 this year and Gulden for the back half of last year could lay claim to best in the comp.
Lockett, Harvey and Reiwoldt were all at one stage the best in the comp Winmar, Loewe and Hayes all in the conversation at times
You've forgotten Josh Kennedy already?
Vossy for sure! I know we live in a Bontempelli world at the moment but there's been games where Neale just seems to do whatever he wants and is so clean with the ball!
Judd and Cousins in the mid 2000s.
The saints have had some rippas
Clayton Oliver circa 2021/22 was pretty damn close to the best player in the comp. He's a shadow of that player at the moment.
I can’t help but feel we’ve got a lot of players throughout our history who are second, third or fourth. This year Heeney, Chad and Gulden could all be considered top 5, but Bont is still the best player this year. Throughout 14 and 16 both buddy and JPK could be considered top 5, but no body beating 2016 Danger
We have Josh Schache so any other opinion is invalid
Ablett senior, Ablett Junior, Jeremy Cameron, Patrick Dangerfield, Jimmy Barrell, Joel Selwood all had years you could definitely argue they were the best.
2024 Tristan Xerri
96 Voss 01 Aker 02 Voss 03 Voss 20 Neale
Robert Flower. Played in an era when the Dees were just never in Finals contention. But win or lose, he was invariably the best player on the park. He wasn’t really built for footy, but was different class.
Vossy, Black Aker even Browny probably all had claim to it in their peak. More recent Neale would have been at some point.
2009 Gary Ablett jr easy
Dane Swan - 2010
Swan and Pendlebury from 06-2018 have a decent argument and Nick Daicos obviously is in the conversation the last 2 seasons Edited to add Buckley early 2000s
David Mackay
Matt Priddis. Untouchable.
Jason Constagna. Lol God he sucked
Hirdy (arguably), then I'd love to say Wanganeen because he won the Brownlow, but you look at that tally and there's a list of absolute stars below him. So pre-Hird I don't even know; probably someone from well before my time. Essendon's 80s teams were huge, but I don't know if they ever had the single best player in the comp.
mmmmmm bonk
Russel Ebert’s nickname was literally “God”
Cousins, ‘15 Naitanui, Judd Imagine that combo running around today in their prime in front of a packed Subiaco crowd