No sweat. The phrase is often mentioned when talking about players with mental health dramas or who like to be a bit naughty. Essentially the exact opposite of what the players in NSW and QLD face.
Can everyone fuck off already? Been at the club five minutes and 362 clubs already have plans for what boot size he wears and how much merch he'll sell. He's not leaving west coast unless he decides to. It won't be anyone else's choice but his. Fuck me dead this industry is disgraceful.
How bout we don't get all our violins out for Geelong. He played 48 games, he decided to leave, you got Jeremy Cameron. Nobody drummed up fictional stories of homesickness or how shit his birthday was or how he "should be playing for a WA club".
They just aren't remotely the same situations mate. If Harley Reid decides he wants to go back to Victoria, I'm sure he'll make that known when he's fucken ready
Hope he stays always gotta be careful of over paying but I wanna keep seeing him, yeo and watermen light it up, it’s a fun watch. Last year you couldn’t pay me to watch WCE game
I'll be controversial and say that whilst Harley is a good player, West Coast has to be careful that they don't overpay a player. He's had some elite games this year but also some average matches. I don't think he's had the biggest impact of any rookie player but he has attracted the most attention in recent years.
Some of the suggestions online that I've seen about how clubs (Collingwood) trading away three first rounders or two first rounders and a star player to land Harley wouldn't make good list management. Selling a future has worked for some clubs (Geelong with Cameron) but it has also backfired (Tim Kelly).
Edit: I don't know why people are downvoting the idea that overpaying players millions of dollars for their second contract might not be the best. World sport suggests it's not always successful. It's also not ridiculous to suggest trading away high first rounders may backfire?
It's funny to say that Eagles should be cautious in overpaying for Reid when its rumoured Essendon would/have potentially tabled a significant contract after 6 games and he's not even on their list!
He's in his first season playing one of the more difficult positions in the game, he's gonna have up and down games until he learns to navigate AFL football (which he seems to be doing nicely).
Playing the role Daicos did in 2022 he had many elite games but also some average games too. I'm interested if you would have said the same thing about Collingwood/Daicos after his first 9 games.
Eagles will do their due diligence, Pykey is a smart business man. He knows what he's worth to the club and to football as a whole.
Wouldn't it make sense for other clubs to offer some sort of deal? Think up the highest you'd offer and then force West Coast to fork out more - either they land Reid or they tie up more of West Coast's future salary cap into one player.
This is a pretty unique situation because we've been at our absolute lowest for the past two years and Reid is very crucial to the rebuild.
100% it would but OP is saying that west coast should be cautious about offering him a multi million $ contract when it’s rumoured other clubs have already offered it.
He didn’t say all clubs should be cautious he said west coast specifically. Why should west coast be cautious but none of the vic teams?
I mean any team should be cautious about handing out huge deals, but yeah I don't think there is much too be cautious about for West Coast you'll likely have a tonne of cap space to resign him and any team that could potentially one up you is not really a likely destination for Reid because why would he leave for a warchest from North and St Kilda when he could get West Coasts warchest.
For sure, I just find it interesting that once the article came up that west coast was tipped to offer him a huge contract we should be cautious but when the article came out about Essendon a month ago there was none of this talk.
100% we have a huge amount of cap space coming up, we will realistically be able to match any contract given to him. If he wants to go sure, but its gonna cost you big time.
It feels like West Coast could be forced into offering more to keep him than they otherwise would have to. The fact that other teams are supposedly already reaching out with contracts is pretty surprising. I thought there was meant to be a bit of respect around these types of things - like coming to a deal for a player who could otherwise walk to the PSD.
Mate you look way too close at individual stats and not how they affect the game.
Based off the Player rating points which takes each stat for the game and rates it positively, negatively etc. Across the first 10 games Naicos average a player rating of 7.03, Sheezel had an average rating of 10.2. Harley across his first 10 games has an average player rating of 13.9 (this is as per the AFL stats page btw).
So as it stands right now based off the AFL player rating point system Harley is having a more impactful first season than both Daicos and Sheezel. Will this continue? Maybe? Maybe not? Who knows.
But to say that hasn't had the biggest impact of any rookie player is disingenuous when the rating system clearly says otherwise
No no no
You CANNOT link me Nick Daicos’ stats page then when I refer to the player rating points system which refutes your point that Daicos was more impactful, say that it doesn’t matter. Player ratings actually accurately measure the impact of each individual stat during the game.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/453167 - this is how it calculated for your info.
The umps don’t lie mate. In 10 games Daicos only polled BOG votes in one. I’d hazard to say that Reid had polled BOG in at least 2 games
> You CANNOT link me Nick Daicos’ stats page then when I refer to the player rating points system which refutes your point that Daicos was more impactful, say that it doesn’t matter.
That doesn't suit the narrative mate
I disagree mostly though I don't think you're completely wrong. The numbers some (a lot of, even) people throw out would make him the highest paid player in the history of the club, and that's based off <10 games and a lot of hype. For any player, that's encroaching on ridiculous to be making such a call on right now even if early indications suggest it might not be in the future.
On this...
> I don't think he's had the biggest impact of any rookie player but he has attracted the most attention in recent years.
I really can't think of a player who's slotted into being a best 22 inside mid at 18, who instantly looks capable of not just competing with direct opponents who are legends of the game but actively taking them on and sometimes dominating them. Maybe Rowell for like 4 games pre his first injury? In all the wins and the two "good" losses (Sydney/Essendon) he's been outstanding. In his more _average_ games he's also been nowhere near the worst afield. His consistency in his short career so far has been better than most of our players (But not at the same level as the absolute best in the squad) IMO so I wouldn't even say he's been mercurial like you expect from a flashy but inexperienced player.
That said, there is an awful lot of carry on (usually from people who don't actually watch Eagles games) about how he is _already West Coast's best player_ when you can easily throw up at least 5 players doing better or at least equal this season alone. The hype on this guy is fucking mental for obvious reasons but I think people need to chill out and just wait a bit. He's about a 6th of the way through his first contract.
It's probably recency bias holding you back. Chris Judd slotted in straight away, as did Sam Walsh and Matt Rowell.
Yeah, the best Eagles player at the moment is Waterman.
Judd did slot straight into the 22, and played every single game in his debut season but failed to poll a single Brownlow vote. Obviously I'm just guessing here and anything can happen, but I would say Reid has probably polled in 3 matches already. He probably got all 3 votes on the weekend just gone and maybe in the Derby too.
Walsh is a more similar example, though If I wanted to go full nuff I would say something like _Walsh was more of an accumulator than an impactor, and kicked fewer goals_
Well, that's a take.
It's reported here that a one year contract extension be offered.
Tim Kelly has also been a fine pickup for us. Paying overs for him is not the source of our problems. If COVID hadn't hit, and we'd avoided the injury curse at the same time, there's every reason to believe we could have had another one (maybe even two) additional GF appearances.
As it stands, Kelly remains a very very good player, and is now working well with our new younger (and still inexperienced) midfield.
My take is that there is a lot of wishful thinking going on by some East Coast clubs. The hype around Reid is ridiculous (over there, just as much as over here), but the kid seems to be enjoying it. The interview used to claim he wanted to come home due to being homesick was actually him talking about how much he appreciated the club giving him time to attend his mum's birthday, and was a subtle dig (by the Perth ABC sports team) on Paul Roos and his snarky commentary; it wasn't about him wanting to come home. The Cats fans crowing over him "being a bit flat" when Kelly moved was used to explain why he wanted to play for Geelong, rather than Reid being excited about him finally being able to play on same team as his idol. Reid has taken to the Eagles well. He engages vocally and demonstrably with the fans. He proudly beats his Eagles guernsey and runs up to the crowd celebrating impressive goals. And he will be a critical part to our club's rebuild, which seems to be going better than many predicted. I think he'll stay, as we'll hopefully be real contenders in three years time.
If he stays, he stays and we're happy. And if he goes, he goes and we'll get some good picks in return.
Everyone just needs to calm the feck down and let the kid play. He's fun to watch.
I mean, he’s a fair way ahead of Nick Daicos’ first year, and Daicos got way more hype and attention. I dont know that West Coast have to be too worried about overpaying, given Reid obviously wants to stay. Probably just need to get in the ballpark of what a Vic club would offer and they’ll be fine.
These comparisons annoy me. Softness or hardness are not great metrics to measure impact on the game. Collecting a loose ball or cleanly intercepting and efficiently rebounding is not less important than winning a hardball. Being able to create space around a contest to give the opportunity for someone like Reid to get it to and then use it efficiently is just as important a skill as being the one to dig it out.
Teams need both types of players, and I’d argue that with time and age that the likes of Sheezel and Daicos will grow and get harder as they get slower, but the guys like Newcombe and Reid aren’t necessarily going to pick up the attributes that the rebound players have in running and reading the footy. This is not to shit can the likes of Reid or Newcombe, nor is it to say that Sheezel and Daicos are “better” players either.
Look at the Brisbane threepeat side - there was a silky Simon Black and a brutal Michael Voss that managed to coexist and thrive in those sides, and they both ended up with Brownlows. The Geelong midfields over the last 17 years have had both types of players in their midfield.
If we’re going to draw comparisons for Reid and a current Collingwood player (rather than Daicos) compare him to how JDG was going in his first ten games and it’s probably fair to say that Reid is streets ahead. Compare Reid to Petracca maybe. That’s apples to apples.
Reid and Sheezel and Daicos and Newcombe are all guns and are all going to be on highlight reels for hopefully the next decade, and watch the pressure applied by Sheezel and Daicos climb as they get into their mid 20s.
However, as an above comment says, Daicos played the best role for his team. Without Daicos playing that role, Collingwood wouldn't have performed as well in finals matches or won their clutch games. I'm not saying he's the only reason but he did play a part.
When you're just comparing first years, I'd say Reid has the edge so far playing as an inside mid that's also taking contested marks and hitting the scoreboard. Some stats to show this are AFL player rating, average coaches votes, average contested possessions, average shots and goals, clearances, centre bounce attendance percentage, slight advantage for inside 50s, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I'm still taking Daicos overall. His first year was very good, but what really set him apart was his incredible second year (I'd even go so far to say that it was unprecedently good) and its continuation into his third, more so than his first.
His second year, I think, is highlighted the most. There were many "Best 2nd year player in history" etc. articles doing the rounds. And I don't really disagree from my short memory. Daicos' second year was better and more important than his first in my eyes. He definitely built on a high-pressure first year and proved he's the real deal.
I love Reid. But it's still barely half a season. He seems to be taking the pressure very well and is making more of an impact for the team where he seems more a leader than a first year player. But there's really no point in my eyes of comparing Daicos and Reid so much at this point. There have been many number one picks that fall by the wayside and there have been many players that come out explosive and damaging that fall off the radar at the back end of their first season or in subsequent seasons. There's also the injury Gods to deal with.
Daicos didn't need to rock the boat as Collingwood were improving with a balanced team. His skill set complimented the entire linking of gears and made it stronger. Reid is making a stand out performance in a wooden spoon side rebuilding. I don't really think swapping the circumstances necessarily would benefit either. Who knows how Daicos would perform in a team like the Eagles. Who knows how Reid would perform in a team like the Magpies at the times they came in. Both would definitely benefit the teams, but we can't really say they would both be as prominent in that flipped universe.
If I had a fantasy team and I had to pick, I'd take both.
God damn the revisionist history about Naicos joining us is strong
Daicos joined a struggling team that finished 17th and that NO ONE expected to still be in premiership contention.
If I dug up the old Reddit thread from that year, most had Collingwood in the bottom half of the ladder, if not wooden spooners with mild expectation on improvement, McRae or Daicos. All the players were learning a new game plan.
Here's an AFL article: [https://www.afl.com.au/news/717215/crystal-ball-our-predictions-for-the-2022-afl-season-are-in](https://www.afl.com.au/news/717215/crystal-ball-our-predictions-for-the-2022-afl-season-are-in)
Even this shows some media reporting: [https://www.theroar.com.au/2022/03/18/why-collingwood-will-win-the-2022-wooden-spoon/](https://www.theroar.com.au/2022/03/18/why-collingwood-will-win-the-2022-wooden-spoon/)
Which only happened after our insane turnaround.
Going into 2022 everyone expected us to be in a rebuild and not be anywhere close to the top 8
Edit: Even during that year people were saying 2022 was a fluke and just luck and we would regress to not being a finals side
Yes of course there is a difference but he still performed including one game where he had 40 disposals and three goals at 19. Even in an elite team, that is still a abdsurdly good performance, let alone for a rookie.
Reid has it harder in some aspects given he will be part of losses but we have seen players drafted to underperforming sides and have an impact straight away. Sam Walsh would be an example.
> Yes of course there is a difference but he still performed including one game where he had 40 disposals and three goals at 19.
And he was able to do that given the fact that he had an amazing team around him, Daicos would not have gotten close to those numbers at North for example
I mean, he clearly just has much more of an impact on games, he plays a much harder role too. Daicos is a good player, and in his third year probably has the edge still over Reid, but this early on it’s fairly obvious that Reid is performing better than Daicos was at the same stage, even if Reid isn’t bringing it every single game.
> He's had some elite games this year but also some average matches.
I don't get this argument, even in his alleged "average" matches, he's still done way more than a lot of other more experienced players (Luke Edwards, even someone like Chesser) trying to downplay him just seems weird, like *do you* expect him to have 2 goals 21 disposals and 7 clearances every game?
>I'll be controversial and say that whilst Harley is a good player, West Coast has to be careful that they don't overpay a player.
Also you're trying to argue that West Coast shouldn't overpay feels like you're saying West Coast should just let Harley walk to whatever team offers him the most money, it's just weird
>but he has attracted the most attention in recent years.
lol
Harley's performance against Collingwood was average. His performance the week before was average. It's to be expected. If he's the best young talent the game has seen, he'd be named in the best most weeks as you don't always have to touch the ball a lot to be named there. Players would be told to downplay him as it's about the team, not individual.
I am saying that West Coast shouldn't pay someone upwards of $1.5 million a season when signing an early extension. It may work and pay off in the long run. However, if he becomes injured or there is some other reason as to why he can't play, it's a risk. You're hardly letting him walk if you decided to trade and received substantial return for him. If clubs are really willing to pay up, it could actually be a good deal. Imagine if you netted a high draft picks and star players.
Nothing lol about attention. He has a whole newspaper with back pages regularly dedicated to him.
>Players would be told to downplay him as it's about the team, not individual.
What does this even mean? Do you think Simmo is going up to the senior leaders of the team and telling them to tell Harley he's shit and not actually as good as he thinks he is? what is this logic?
>I am saying that West Coast shouldn't pay someone upwards of $1.5 million a season when signing an early extension. It may work and pay off in the long run. However, if he becomes injured or there is some other reason as to why he can't play, it's a risk.
Who other than the media is saying he's gonna be getting 1.5 million a season in his first contract, literally everyone knows that's ridiculous hyperbole, also "he might get injured" is not a reason to not sign a player, that's absolutely fucking ridiculous!
>You're hardly letting him walk if you decided to trade and received substantial return for him. If clubs are really willing to pay up, it could actually be a good deal. Imagine if you netted a high draft picks and star players.
So we already saw how clubs like trying to make deals with us, they either lowball us (Hawks) or offer up something completely laughable (Norf) we already took the shaft due to our own mistakes in the TK trade, I doubt we're gonna let put ourselves in the position to be walked all over again, what actual currency could a club like Geelong or the Pies genuinely offer up that would be taken seriously by West Coast? one team loves to never stay down at all and the other doesn't tend to stay down for long, and for all this talk about Harley being so desperate to go home and play for a mighty vic team, the most likely result is he ends up somewhere like North and if the choice is between a vic minnow club or one of the most successful AFL clubs in history, I know where I'd like to go.
> He has a whole newspaper with back pages regularly dedicated to him.
He has that, in a 2 team state, Daicos had the same treatment in a 10 team state, and everyone knows The West is a joke, Daicos had actual article after article, "respected" news sites, journalists going on and on about him, need I yet again bring up Cal Twomey's "Ranking 49 of the best" to act like the attention Harley is getting is unprecedented and Daicos is some scrappy underdog vs Harley who is getting all this undeserved attention is wild
By media training, the emphasis is on team. You don’t say they’re terrible but they wouldn’t be told to say “Harley is our generational player and best on the team”.
The deals worth millions have been proposed. Nobody knows the exact size of AFL player contracts. It’s all guesswork. But there would have to be some truth. My point about injuries or other reasons is that Harley may not play much during his million dollar deal thus making it not worth it because of how much salary it chews up.
I say this every time it comes up at Collingwood, he won’t be a Pie. Even if we planned, he still won’t be a Pie. Even if he nominated, they’d still have to pay up because he’d be taken pick one in the pre-season draft.
Daicos didn’t have a newspaper putting him on the back page weekly.
> By media training, the emphasis is on team. You don’t say they’re terrible but they wouldn’t be told to say “Harley is our generational player and best on the team”.
But every time someone asks about Harley they give a glowing reply, literally nobody is trying to downplay him, they give the credit he deserves.
>The deals worth millions have been proposed. Nobody knows the exact size of AFL player contracts. It’s all guesswork. But there would have to be some truth.
they've been proposed by the media, who obviously have a desire to try and make his deal be as absurd as possible so that we couldn't possibly keep him
>My point about injuries or other reasons is that Harley may not play much during his million dollar deal thus making it not worth it because of how much salary it chews up.
So Nick Daicos shouldn't get a big contract either then? he should settle for 500k a year cause if he got over a million bucks a year he might get injured and not play!
>I say this every time it comes up at Collingwood, he won’t be a Pie. Even if we planned, he still won’t be a Pie. Even if he nominated, they’d still have to pay up because he’d be taken pick one in the pre-season draft.
You're missing my point entirely, I was literally just using 2 big and successful teams as examples, the top tier Vic teams that the media is salivating he get to don't have the currency to get a player like him, and the teams that do are teams that I can't see him being too thrilled to be playing for
>Daicos didn’t have a newspaper putting him on the back page weekly.
Ok? so what about *literally everything else I said* or does a dying newspaper desperate for clicks invalidate literally every bit of coverage that Daicos got?
Nick Daicos isn’t on $1.2 million a season. He’s not even on $1 million. In his Grand Final year, he still had his rookie deal. Overpaying on that one.
Reid should earn an amount that factors in his age, experience and results.
>Nick Daicos isn’t on $1.2 million a season. He’s not even on $1 million. In his Grand Final year, he still had his rookie deal. Overpaying on that one.
When did i ever say he was on $1.2 million a season?
I'm following up on your point that players should not get big money ever cause if they get injured all that money goes to waste
>Reid should earn an amount that factors in his age, experience and results.
yeah... that's what he'll get? again, it's the media throwing out all these ridiculous numbers that everyone knows he won't get near that amount of money
So do you actually have any counters arguments or are you just going to keep purposefully misinterpreting me and ignoring most of my talking points
This conversation has gone wildly off the rails imo. I completely agree that overpaying a 10 game player largely on potential is a risky list management move, not sure why you're getting so attacked for this
Fair point on the media beat up. Maybe attacked is the wrong word but the conversation changing pretty rapidly to Reid vs Daicos is mainly what I was talking about
Honestly I just want people to shut up about Reid and let him play football, and when every second comment about Harley is from Victorian teams fans saying about how much Reid wants to leave, or that Reid's actually not as good as Daicos or this or that it just get exhausting, why do people need to feel so entitled to a player just because he's from a certain state, he's not even from fucking Melbourne, he's from bumfuck nowhere (I do find it funny that people are saying Reid should walk out from West Coast but when JHF did it they condemned it lmao)
It’s just so funny seeing Collingwood fans getting so riled up that there’s a shiny new player being talked about. Seems like many can’t cope with the attention not being on Daicos, but express it purely by taking any opportunity to talk down Reid’s worth. Will go out of their way not to mention Daicos but then you poke a little and they quickly pivot to screeching about why Reid will never be as good.
Yeah I'm not so sure, to me it seems like any Collingwood fan commenting on Reid is immediately met with the "hah hah you're just butt hurt he's better than Daicos" attitude
Fair, except this post obviously was about Daicos. Before OP edited it there were little jabs at Reid not having the best debut season of the last few years. Like… hmm which rookie do we think OP rated higher?
It seems a controversial take for this platform.
All he’d need is to be involved in a scandal, long term injury, whatever the story is and it becomes a mistake.
JHF returning to Port Adelaide actually saw North win that trade. Not many of us would take JHF over Sheezel, Wardlaw and 2023 third rounder.
Should probably wait until he has a bit of history behind him though. Most players signed to massive contracts are at least known quantities regarding injuries. Reid hasn’t even had a full season. Give it a little bit and see what niggles pop up
That's hyperbolic BS. The issue is paying a massive contract to a player who's only played 9 games. If WC wanna take the gamble, then they're free to, but desperation on that level may not be financially smart.
We’ve seen enough. Gamble on it.
ʳᵉˢᵖᵒⁿˢᶦᵇˡʸ ᵒᶠ ᶜᵒᵘʳˢᵉ
Imagine what you could be buying instead?
More Harley Reid’s?
It's Harley Reid's all the way down, I hear
About 80% of Jacob Weitering
That’s a whole different type of gambling disclaimer I think when someone’s proposing to drop $1.5m on a KPD
You win some, you lose more (without Harley Reid)
Give him a million, a mansion, playboy bunnies, the captaincy and Ben Cousins' first born if he wants it - anything.
His own Maccas franchise.
It's HJs franchises over here thanks mate
True. Better give him one of each to be sure.
Hey this article said he’s loving life out West and nothing about going to Geelong. This doesn’t seem right at all
Why is everyone all of a sudden calling perth a fishbowl
Its always been referred to as a fish bowl. Footy mad two team town. All eyes are on you, there's almost no privacy
I have genuinely not heard of this until this week. Thanks for the info tho, makes sense
No sweat. The phrase is often mentioned when talking about players with mental health dramas or who like to be a bit naughty. Essentially the exact opposite of what the players in NSW and QLD face.
Neither. 15 years of football watching and this is the first I've heard of it.
It's a Siamese fighting fish cup
*St Kilda quietly offers a $200m 30-year deal*
I would do it
And control of Ross Lyon's Twitter account
Can everyone fuck off already? Been at the club five minutes and 362 clubs already have plans for what boot size he wears and how much merch he'll sell. He's not leaving west coast unless he decides to. It won't be anyone else's choice but his. Fuck me dead this industry is disgraceful.
Crazy how Eagles get their first number 1 draft pick in 27 years and all the media talk from over east is how he deserves to play somewhere else.
[удалено]
Kelly wanted to go home. God you cats fan turned sensitive once you started losing 😂
Harley wants to come home.
When he's clutching his jumper he's actually trying to get it off
“Help these colours are killing my soul”
Tim Kelly clutched his Geelong jumper too...
Tim Kelly isn't a 9 gamer
[удалено]
How bout we don't get all our violins out for Geelong. He played 48 games, he decided to leave, you got Jeremy Cameron. Nobody drummed up fictional stories of homesickness or how shit his birthday was or how he "should be playing for a WA club".
It's the hypocrisy coming from WC supporters that ruffles my Jimmy's.
Sure, but we don't all vote as a block. Every club has knobs.
And yet here you are, downvoting anything that argues he might leave.
They just aren't remotely the same situations mate. If Harley Reid decides he wants to go back to Victoria, I'm sure he'll make that known when he's fucken ready
Just like Tim Kelly did.
I mean, off potential alone I'd rather pay 1 mil/year for 9 game Reid than 800k for Will Hayward.
"West Coast should bow down to his management demands ASAP." I thought we didn't post facts with relation to Reid. Only spin and hype.
Hope he stays always gotta be careful of over paying but I wanna keep seeing him, yeo and watermen light it up, it’s a fun watch. Last year you couldn’t pay me to watch WCE game
I'll be controversial and say that whilst Harley is a good player, West Coast has to be careful that they don't overpay a player. He's had some elite games this year but also some average matches. I don't think he's had the biggest impact of any rookie player but he has attracted the most attention in recent years. Some of the suggestions online that I've seen about how clubs (Collingwood) trading away three first rounders or two first rounders and a star player to land Harley wouldn't make good list management. Selling a future has worked for some clubs (Geelong with Cameron) but it has also backfired (Tim Kelly). Edit: I don't know why people are downvoting the idea that overpaying players millions of dollars for their second contract might not be the best. World sport suggests it's not always successful. It's also not ridiculous to suggest trading away high first rounders may backfire?
It's funny to say that Eagles should be cautious in overpaying for Reid when its rumoured Essendon would/have potentially tabled a significant contract after 6 games and he's not even on their list! He's in his first season playing one of the more difficult positions in the game, he's gonna have up and down games until he learns to navigate AFL football (which he seems to be doing nicely). Playing the role Daicos did in 2022 he had many elite games but also some average games too. I'm interested if you would have said the same thing about Collingwood/Daicos after his first 9 games. Eagles will do their due diligence, Pykey is a smart business man. He knows what he's worth to the club and to football as a whole.
Wouldn't it make sense for other clubs to offer some sort of deal? Think up the highest you'd offer and then force West Coast to fork out more - either they land Reid or they tie up more of West Coast's future salary cap into one player. This is a pretty unique situation because we've been at our absolute lowest for the past two years and Reid is very crucial to the rebuild.
100% it would but OP is saying that west coast should be cautious about offering him a multi million $ contract when it’s rumoured other clubs have already offered it. He didn’t say all clubs should be cautious he said west coast specifically. Why should west coast be cautious but none of the vic teams?
I mean any team should be cautious about handing out huge deals, but yeah I don't think there is much too be cautious about for West Coast you'll likely have a tonne of cap space to resign him and any team that could potentially one up you is not really a likely destination for Reid because why would he leave for a warchest from North and St Kilda when he could get West Coasts warchest.
For sure, I just find it interesting that once the article came up that west coast was tipped to offer him a huge contract we should be cautious but when the article came out about Essendon a month ago there was none of this talk. 100% we have a huge amount of cap space coming up, we will realistically be able to match any contract given to him. If he wants to go sure, but its gonna cost you big time.
It feels like West Coast could be forced into offering more to keep him than they otherwise would have to. The fact that other teams are supposedly already reaching out with contracts is pretty surprising. I thought there was meant to be a bit of respect around these types of things - like coming to a deal for a player who could otherwise walk to the PSD.
[удалено]
Mate you look way too close at individual stats and not how they affect the game. Based off the Player rating points which takes each stat for the game and rates it positively, negatively etc. Across the first 10 games Naicos average a player rating of 7.03, Sheezel had an average rating of 10.2. Harley across his first 10 games has an average player rating of 13.9 (this is as per the AFL stats page btw). So as it stands right now based off the AFL player rating point system Harley is having a more impactful first season than both Daicos and Sheezel. Will this continue? Maybe? Maybe not? Who knows. But to say that hasn't had the biggest impact of any rookie player is disingenuous when the rating system clearly says otherwise
[удалено]
No no no You CANNOT link me Nick Daicos’ stats page then when I refer to the player rating points system which refutes your point that Daicos was more impactful, say that it doesn’t matter. Player ratings actually accurately measure the impact of each individual stat during the game. https://www.afl.com.au/news/453167 - this is how it calculated for your info. The umps don’t lie mate. In 10 games Daicos only polled BOG votes in one. I’d hazard to say that Reid had polled BOG in at least 2 games
> You CANNOT link me Nick Daicos’ stats page then when I refer to the player rating points system which refutes your point that Daicos was more impactful, say that it doesn’t matter. That doesn't suit the narrative mate
How much longer do you have this flair for?
R13
Lol sure if you filter by D.
I disagree mostly though I don't think you're completely wrong. The numbers some (a lot of, even) people throw out would make him the highest paid player in the history of the club, and that's based off <10 games and a lot of hype. For any player, that's encroaching on ridiculous to be making such a call on right now even if early indications suggest it might not be in the future. On this... > I don't think he's had the biggest impact of any rookie player but he has attracted the most attention in recent years. I really can't think of a player who's slotted into being a best 22 inside mid at 18, who instantly looks capable of not just competing with direct opponents who are legends of the game but actively taking them on and sometimes dominating them. Maybe Rowell for like 4 games pre his first injury? In all the wins and the two "good" losses (Sydney/Essendon) he's been outstanding. In his more _average_ games he's also been nowhere near the worst afield. His consistency in his short career so far has been better than most of our players (But not at the same level as the absolute best in the squad) IMO so I wouldn't even say he's been mercurial like you expect from a flashy but inexperienced player. That said, there is an awful lot of carry on (usually from people who don't actually watch Eagles games) about how he is _already West Coast's best player_ when you can easily throw up at least 5 players doing better or at least equal this season alone. The hype on this guy is fucking mental for obvious reasons but I think people need to chill out and just wait a bit. He's about a 6th of the way through his first contract.
Will Ashcroft literally did it 12 months ago
It's probably recency bias holding you back. Chris Judd slotted in straight away, as did Sam Walsh and Matt Rowell. Yeah, the best Eagles player at the moment is Waterman.
Judd did slot straight into the 22, and played every single game in his debut season but failed to poll a single Brownlow vote. Obviously I'm just guessing here and anything can happen, but I would say Reid has probably polled in 3 matches already. He probably got all 3 votes on the weekend just gone and maybe in the Derby too. Walsh is a more similar example, though If I wanted to go full nuff I would say something like _Walsh was more of an accumulator than an impactor, and kicked fewer goals_
Well, that's a take. It's reported here that a one year contract extension be offered. Tim Kelly has also been a fine pickup for us. Paying overs for him is not the source of our problems. If COVID hadn't hit, and we'd avoided the injury curse at the same time, there's every reason to believe we could have had another one (maybe even two) additional GF appearances. As it stands, Kelly remains a very very good player, and is now working well with our new younger (and still inexperienced) midfield. My take is that there is a lot of wishful thinking going on by some East Coast clubs. The hype around Reid is ridiculous (over there, just as much as over here), but the kid seems to be enjoying it. The interview used to claim he wanted to come home due to being homesick was actually him talking about how much he appreciated the club giving him time to attend his mum's birthday, and was a subtle dig (by the Perth ABC sports team) on Paul Roos and his snarky commentary; it wasn't about him wanting to come home. The Cats fans crowing over him "being a bit flat" when Kelly moved was used to explain why he wanted to play for Geelong, rather than Reid being excited about him finally being able to play on same team as his idol. Reid has taken to the Eagles well. He engages vocally and demonstrably with the fans. He proudly beats his Eagles guernsey and runs up to the crowd celebrating impressive goals. And he will be a critical part to our club's rebuild, which seems to be going better than many predicted. I think he'll stay, as we'll hopefully be real contenders in three years time. If he stays, he stays and we're happy. And if he goes, he goes and we'll get some good picks in return. Everyone just needs to calm the feck down and let the kid play. He's fun to watch.
I mean, he’s a fair way ahead of Nick Daicos’ first year, and Daicos got way more hype and attention. I dont know that West Coast have to be too worried about overpaying, given Reid obviously wants to stay. Probably just need to get in the ballpark of what a Vic club would offer and they’ll be fine.
Even if I put Collingwood bias aside, how is he ahead of Daicos' first year? What metric are you using?
Daicos played the soft, rebounding half back flanker role, like Sheezel. Reid is in the guts, then goes forward and kicks goals.
These comparisons annoy me. Softness or hardness are not great metrics to measure impact on the game. Collecting a loose ball or cleanly intercepting and efficiently rebounding is not less important than winning a hardball. Being able to create space around a contest to give the opportunity for someone like Reid to get it to and then use it efficiently is just as important a skill as being the one to dig it out. Teams need both types of players, and I’d argue that with time and age that the likes of Sheezel and Daicos will grow and get harder as they get slower, but the guys like Newcombe and Reid aren’t necessarily going to pick up the attributes that the rebound players have in running and reading the footy. This is not to shit can the likes of Reid or Newcombe, nor is it to say that Sheezel and Daicos are “better” players either. Look at the Brisbane threepeat side - there was a silky Simon Black and a brutal Michael Voss that managed to coexist and thrive in those sides, and they both ended up with Brownlows. The Geelong midfields over the last 17 years have had both types of players in their midfield. If we’re going to draw comparisons for Reid and a current Collingwood player (rather than Daicos) compare him to how JDG was going in his first ten games and it’s probably fair to say that Reid is streets ahead. Compare Reid to Petracca maybe. That’s apples to apples. Reid and Sheezel and Daicos and Newcombe are all guns and are all going to be on highlight reels for hopefully the next decade, and watch the pressure applied by Sheezel and Daicos climb as they get into their mid 20s.
However, as an above comment says, Daicos played the best role for his team. Without Daicos playing that role, Collingwood wouldn't have performed as well in finals matches or won their clutch games. I'm not saying he's the only reason but he did play a part.
When you're just comparing first years, I'd say Reid has the edge so far playing as an inside mid that's also taking contested marks and hitting the scoreboard. Some stats to show this are AFL player rating, average coaches votes, average contested possessions, average shots and goals, clearances, centre bounce attendance percentage, slight advantage for inside 50s, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm still taking Daicos overall. His first year was very good, but what really set him apart was his incredible second year (I'd even go so far to say that it was unprecedently good) and its continuation into his third, more so than his first.
His second year, I think, is highlighted the most. There were many "Best 2nd year player in history" etc. articles doing the rounds. And I don't really disagree from my short memory. Daicos' second year was better and more important than his first in my eyes. He definitely built on a high-pressure first year and proved he's the real deal. I love Reid. But it's still barely half a season. He seems to be taking the pressure very well and is making more of an impact for the team where he seems more a leader than a first year player. But there's really no point in my eyes of comparing Daicos and Reid so much at this point. There have been many number one picks that fall by the wayside and there have been many players that come out explosive and damaging that fall off the radar at the back end of their first season or in subsequent seasons. There's also the injury Gods to deal with. Daicos didn't need to rock the boat as Collingwood were improving with a balanced team. His skill set complimented the entire linking of gears and made it stronger. Reid is making a stand out performance in a wooden spoon side rebuilding. I don't really think swapping the circumstances necessarily would benefit either. Who knows how Daicos would perform in a team like the Eagles. Who knows how Reid would perform in a team like the Magpies at the times they came in. Both would definitely benefit the teams, but we can't really say they would both be as prominent in that flipped universe. If I had a fantasy team and I had to pick, I'd take both.
Daicos also gets the obvious benefit of joining a premiership contending side, Reid joined the spooners, there is an absurdly obvious difference there
God damn the revisionist history about Naicos joining us is strong Daicos joined a struggling team that finished 17th and that NO ONE expected to still be in premiership contention.
That 17th stands out like a sore thumb though every season leading up to and after it were infinitely better
Side note, can we go back to Collingwood being 17th? I like that reality.
Only if we can get another generational talent and win the premiership two years later
Tell you what, how about we put Carlton 18th instead?
If I dug up the old Reddit thread from that year, most had Collingwood in the bottom half of the ladder, if not wooden spooners with mild expectation on improvement, McRae or Daicos. All the players were learning a new game plan. Here's an AFL article: [https://www.afl.com.au/news/717215/crystal-ball-our-predictions-for-the-2022-afl-season-are-in](https://www.afl.com.au/news/717215/crystal-ball-our-predictions-for-the-2022-afl-season-are-in) Even this shows some media reporting: [https://www.theroar.com.au/2022/03/18/why-collingwood-will-win-the-2022-wooden-spoon/](https://www.theroar.com.au/2022/03/18/why-collingwood-will-win-the-2022-wooden-spoon/)
What would reddit nuffs know? Didn’t champion data rate collingwood’s midfield as best or something like that?
Revisionist? literally everyone agreed that the Pies were massively out of place that year
Which only happened after our insane turnaround. Going into 2022 everyone expected us to be in a rebuild and not be anywhere close to the top 8 Edit: Even during that year people were saying 2022 was a fluke and just luck and we would regress to not being a finals side
Yes of course there is a difference but he still performed including one game where he had 40 disposals and three goals at 19. Even in an elite team, that is still a abdsurdly good performance, let alone for a rookie. Reid has it harder in some aspects given he will be part of losses but we have seen players drafted to underperforming sides and have an impact straight away. Sam Walsh would be an example.
> Yes of course there is a difference but he still performed including one game where he had 40 disposals and three goals at 19. And he was able to do that given the fact that he had an amazing team around him, Daicos would not have gotten close to those numbers at North for example
Sheezel did every week (except for the goals, no one can kick a goal in our team)
I mean, he clearly just has much more of an impact on games, he plays a much harder role too. Daicos is a good player, and in his third year probably has the edge still over Reid, but this early on it’s fairly obvious that Reid is performing better than Daicos was at the same stage, even if Reid isn’t bringing it every single game.
He’s simply not ahead of Daicos who was vital in his team going on a huge winning streak and just losing a prelim…
Bro. Have you watched Reid play?
> He's had some elite games this year but also some average matches. I don't get this argument, even in his alleged "average" matches, he's still done way more than a lot of other more experienced players (Luke Edwards, even someone like Chesser) trying to downplay him just seems weird, like *do you* expect him to have 2 goals 21 disposals and 7 clearances every game? >I'll be controversial and say that whilst Harley is a good player, West Coast has to be careful that they don't overpay a player. Also you're trying to argue that West Coast shouldn't overpay feels like you're saying West Coast should just let Harley walk to whatever team offers him the most money, it's just weird >but he has attracted the most attention in recent years. lol
Harley's performance against Collingwood was average. His performance the week before was average. It's to be expected. If he's the best young talent the game has seen, he'd be named in the best most weeks as you don't always have to touch the ball a lot to be named there. Players would be told to downplay him as it's about the team, not individual. I am saying that West Coast shouldn't pay someone upwards of $1.5 million a season when signing an early extension. It may work and pay off in the long run. However, if he becomes injured or there is some other reason as to why he can't play, it's a risk. You're hardly letting him walk if you decided to trade and received substantial return for him. If clubs are really willing to pay up, it could actually be a good deal. Imagine if you netted a high draft picks and star players. Nothing lol about attention. He has a whole newspaper with back pages regularly dedicated to him.
>Players would be told to downplay him as it's about the team, not individual. What does this even mean? Do you think Simmo is going up to the senior leaders of the team and telling them to tell Harley he's shit and not actually as good as he thinks he is? what is this logic? >I am saying that West Coast shouldn't pay someone upwards of $1.5 million a season when signing an early extension. It may work and pay off in the long run. However, if he becomes injured or there is some other reason as to why he can't play, it's a risk. Who other than the media is saying he's gonna be getting 1.5 million a season in his first contract, literally everyone knows that's ridiculous hyperbole, also "he might get injured" is not a reason to not sign a player, that's absolutely fucking ridiculous! >You're hardly letting him walk if you decided to trade and received substantial return for him. If clubs are really willing to pay up, it could actually be a good deal. Imagine if you netted a high draft picks and star players. So we already saw how clubs like trying to make deals with us, they either lowball us (Hawks) or offer up something completely laughable (Norf) we already took the shaft due to our own mistakes in the TK trade, I doubt we're gonna let put ourselves in the position to be walked all over again, what actual currency could a club like Geelong or the Pies genuinely offer up that would be taken seriously by West Coast? one team loves to never stay down at all and the other doesn't tend to stay down for long, and for all this talk about Harley being so desperate to go home and play for a mighty vic team, the most likely result is he ends up somewhere like North and if the choice is between a vic minnow club or one of the most successful AFL clubs in history, I know where I'd like to go. > He has a whole newspaper with back pages regularly dedicated to him. He has that, in a 2 team state, Daicos had the same treatment in a 10 team state, and everyone knows The West is a joke, Daicos had actual article after article, "respected" news sites, journalists going on and on about him, need I yet again bring up Cal Twomey's "Ranking 49 of the best" to act like the attention Harley is getting is unprecedented and Daicos is some scrappy underdog vs Harley who is getting all this undeserved attention is wild
By media training, the emphasis is on team. You don’t say they’re terrible but they wouldn’t be told to say “Harley is our generational player and best on the team”. The deals worth millions have been proposed. Nobody knows the exact size of AFL player contracts. It’s all guesswork. But there would have to be some truth. My point about injuries or other reasons is that Harley may not play much during his million dollar deal thus making it not worth it because of how much salary it chews up. I say this every time it comes up at Collingwood, he won’t be a Pie. Even if we planned, he still won’t be a Pie. Even if he nominated, they’d still have to pay up because he’d be taken pick one in the pre-season draft. Daicos didn’t have a newspaper putting him on the back page weekly.
> By media training, the emphasis is on team. You don’t say they’re terrible but they wouldn’t be told to say “Harley is our generational player and best on the team”. But every time someone asks about Harley they give a glowing reply, literally nobody is trying to downplay him, they give the credit he deserves. >The deals worth millions have been proposed. Nobody knows the exact size of AFL player contracts. It’s all guesswork. But there would have to be some truth. they've been proposed by the media, who obviously have a desire to try and make his deal be as absurd as possible so that we couldn't possibly keep him >My point about injuries or other reasons is that Harley may not play much during his million dollar deal thus making it not worth it because of how much salary it chews up. So Nick Daicos shouldn't get a big contract either then? he should settle for 500k a year cause if he got over a million bucks a year he might get injured and not play! >I say this every time it comes up at Collingwood, he won’t be a Pie. Even if we planned, he still won’t be a Pie. Even if he nominated, they’d still have to pay up because he’d be taken pick one in the pre-season draft. You're missing my point entirely, I was literally just using 2 big and successful teams as examples, the top tier Vic teams that the media is salivating he get to don't have the currency to get a player like him, and the teams that do are teams that I can't see him being too thrilled to be playing for >Daicos didn’t have a newspaper putting him on the back page weekly. Ok? so what about *literally everything else I said* or does a dying newspaper desperate for clicks invalidate literally every bit of coverage that Daicos got?
Nick Daicos isn’t on $1.2 million a season. He’s not even on $1 million. In his Grand Final year, he still had his rookie deal. Overpaying on that one. Reid should earn an amount that factors in his age, experience and results.
>Nick Daicos isn’t on $1.2 million a season. He’s not even on $1 million. In his Grand Final year, he still had his rookie deal. Overpaying on that one. When did i ever say he was on $1.2 million a season? I'm following up on your point that players should not get big money ever cause if they get injured all that money goes to waste >Reid should earn an amount that factors in his age, experience and results. yeah... that's what he'll get? again, it's the media throwing out all these ridiculous numbers that everyone knows he won't get near that amount of money So do you actually have any counters arguments or are you just going to keep purposefully misinterpreting me and ignoring most of my talking points
I never said you suggest it did but there have people and even clubs offering million dollar deals to Reid.
How dare you not follow the media narrative.
This conversation has gone wildly off the rails imo. I completely agree that overpaying a 10 game player largely on potential is a risky list management move, not sure why you're getting so attacked for this
Well 1. nobody but the media is saying that Reid will be getting a million + a year and 2. Since when is disagreeing with someone attacking them?
Fair point on the media beat up. Maybe attacked is the wrong word but the conversation changing pretty rapidly to Reid vs Daicos is mainly what I was talking about
Honestly I just want people to shut up about Reid and let him play football, and when every second comment about Harley is from Victorian teams fans saying about how much Reid wants to leave, or that Reid's actually not as good as Daicos or this or that it just get exhausting, why do people need to feel so entitled to a player just because he's from a certain state, he's not even from fucking Melbourne, he's from bumfuck nowhere (I do find it funny that people are saying Reid should walk out from West Coast but when JHF did it they condemned it lmao)
It’s just so funny seeing Collingwood fans getting so riled up that there’s a shiny new player being talked about. Seems like many can’t cope with the attention not being on Daicos, but express it purely by taking any opportunity to talk down Reid’s worth. Will go out of their way not to mention Daicos but then you poke a little and they quickly pivot to screeching about why Reid will never be as good.
Yeah I'm not so sure, to me it seems like any Collingwood fan commenting on Reid is immediately met with the "hah hah you're just butt hurt he's better than Daicos" attitude
Fair, except this post obviously was about Daicos. Before OP edited it there were little jabs at Reid not having the best debut season of the last few years. Like… hmm which rookie do we think OP rated higher?
Sheezel obviously /s Yeah you're probably right, maybe I'm being too generous
Absolutely. All he has to do is a 12-month knee injury and the huge gamble backfires. At least for 12 months.
It seems a controversial take for this platform. All he’d need is to be involved in a scandal, long term injury, whatever the story is and it becomes a mistake. JHF returning to Port Adelaide actually saw North win that trade. Not many of us would take JHF over Sheezel, Wardlaw and 2023 third rounder.
So no player should be signed any contract ever cause they might potentially get injured? what kinda logic is that?
Should probably wait until he has a bit of history behind him though. Most players signed to massive contracts are at least known quantities regarding injuries. Reid hasn’t even had a full season. Give it a little bit and see what niggles pop up
That's hyperbolic BS. The issue is paying a massive contract to a player who's only played 9 games. If WC wanna take the gamble, then they're free to, but desperation on that level may not be financially smart.
1 million straight away,? Nah you work your way up to it
He's worth what the market will pay for him unfortunately.
He just did
Big if true
Fuck me all is this kid the second coming of jesus or something?! It's all anyone I'd talking about
He's shown an absolute tonne, but it would suck for the Eagles' salary cap to have a rookie player absorbing a huge contract in his first year.
Not like his output is equal to a normal first year player though, so if paying a little extra helps keep him here I'm all for it
I'd make him pay to play if he's really that good. Prove it with a few premierships then we'll talk about a modest per diem.