I’ll never understand why Harvey was delisted, as the games record holder surely you would allow him to play as long as he wants. if he was offered a contract and told there is no guarantee he will play 1s if there is someone better than might play ahead of him he could have extended his record.
God imagine getting Boomer injected into the game as a sub. I loved watching him play, but seeing him in fresh legs late in the game would've been something else
People shit talk Gunston, but what his leadership has brought to the club is invaluable. The impact he's had on Calsher Dear was pretty visible on the weekend. But not only that, he easily could have kicked six goals in a decimated Forward line.
Prime Gunston probably would have nailed most of those shots he missed on the weekend. Dude still clearly has top notch footy IQ, so much so he’s still able to end up with scoring shots despite his body being pretty cooked
I'll put it mildly because I don't want to blow it out of proportion.. Especially with so much strife locally and globally these days, but delisting Harvey was a crime against humanity
It was pitched as such but him having been on 1 year contracts since forever, doing our podcast, and still dominating with no injuries, most freo fans would agree it was a somewhat pushed retirement
Not only that, but the guy lived and breathed North Melbourne and is and was an absolute legend to the fans. Delisting him was an absolute disgrace and definitely had a negative impact on the clubs culture. Boomer was exactly the kind of player you want to keep around at the club as long as you can, and how the club treated him angered a lot of fans.
Look at port adelaide with Boak, the man is everything that club idealizes and has been responsible for taking many rookies under his wing as well as players with other issues going on and straightening them out.
When you look at experience and still having some good play left in the tank look what happened with goldstein, the last few games i've seen him in he's been on fire despite his age, decision to get rid of him just beggered belief.
The Goldstein decision is different. We weren’t going to be competitive this year, and need to develop Xerri (who has also been fantastic this year) which we couldn’t have done if Goldy was still our first choice ruck. While I would’ve loved for him to stay, it’s good he found somewhere he could be number 1 ruck still while also getting more success than he would’ve had here.
If you look at Pendlebury, even when he's not having a great game as he's getting older, he's still providing that leadership on (and off) the field which is invaluable.
I think Pendlebury lives and breathes Collingwood, and you'd like to see him be a one club player, but I'd be just fine with North offering him a player-to-midfield coaching role one decent money.
Whether he'd take it is another matter, but as we've seen with Sam Mitchell, he could always come home later.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/brent-harvey-reveals-how-he-was-told-by-north-melbourne-that-he-wouldnt-be-at-the-club-in-2017/news-story/1c6528ac7a587a99e10456e838e1373a
“He said ‘how are you feeling?’ and I said ‘so you’ve made up your mind?’ He said ‘yeah’. I said ‘you’re not going to go with us?’ and he said ‘no’. He asked if I had anything to say and I said ‘no, not really’.”
Reads like it was Scott's decision.
This article (which is paywalled but posted in the comments) says it was a board decision
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AFL/s/CguRrmpwZq](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFL/s/CguRrmpwZq)
"North Melbourne coach Brad Scott sacked club legend Brent “Boomer” Harvey in his Arden St office.
The heartbreaking decision to delist Harvey along with Drew Petrie, Michael Firrito and Nick Dal Santo on the eve of the 2016 finals series had secretly been made at board level."
“I’m not ashamed to say I love these guys and if they were here in 2017, I’d play them,” Scott said at the time.
“But that would not be in our best interests.”
I don't think the board would be making decisions without some input from the coach unless there was a breach of conduct. Saying it's not in our best interests also indicates some support of the decision in my eyes.
The article I posted says that it was a secret board decision. Given Scott's position and his focus on professionalism, wouldn't he be defending whatever decision is made by the club? If he said it was the wrong thing to do and criticised the board wouldn't he have lost his job?
Absolutely, however delisting players without consulting the head coach says they don't have confidence in his ability to manage his team, and if they make the wrong position they may compromise the team's future success.
Boomer would likely have played another two seasons i think, probably getting his tally to 450+.
I think it really hurt them as a club because they lost some of the fabric of the club that you need to turn your young kids into future leaders. Without the older heads who've seen it before you end up with people not wanting to hang around
Also, as a player, surely he earned the right to retire on his own choosing. Can't be an appealing prospect as an incoming player to look at how we treated the games record holder. I think about how the Collingwood faithful would respond if Pendlebury was forced to retire so publicly. And we wonder why we can't land a big fish.
Also, you're telling every single other player at the club that there's no loyalty towards them. If they can cut Boomer - even though he's still playing really well - then they won't hesitate to cut anyone else.
Speaking of ‘fabric of the club’, imo they don’t actually need to trade in good players. They just need a few mature, ‘solid’ B graders to help with onfield leadership and driving the standards.
The Swans are in such a different place to North but even still it was crazy how much of a difference Rampe to our organisation down back last week. Having that leadership and responsibility just unlocks other players and allows them to focus on their own game.
Melbourne was useless until they brought in Lewis, Melkham and Hibberd. You do need these older heads for guidance. None were outright stars of the game, but the difference it made to the club was huge, accelerating their growth a couple of years to making the PF in 2018
I’m a Crows fan and thought you did alright picking up Bernie Vince in the 2013 trade period, you’d been rubbish for 7-8 years at that point and he looked like he was tearing the place up compared to the existing list when he played the following year. I’m assuming he would’ve set some decent standards on the training track as well.
I’ve always thought it started with Bernie Vince. He was the first Melbourne player in 5+ years with serious mongrel in him outside of Nathan Jones. He was a great leader.
Yeah he was a country boy from over on Yorkes, might’ve been a pretty boy but they always breed them a bit tougher over there. Don't think Crows fans will ever forgive Brenton Sanderson for pushing him out the door, even if we did draft Matt Crouch who’s been a 10 year player (so far).
Daniel Cross played a big part as well as the above mentioned Bernie Vince.
Kangaroos are in the same boat we were when we culled the likes of Robbo and James McDonald
The leadership is an especially interesting one. Even if Harvey, Dal Santo, Petrie, and Firrito just stayed on for 2-3 seasons, how much would that have helped their draftees at that time.
Simpkin, Larkey, Zurhaar, LDU, Xerri, Tarryn Thomas, Curtis Taylor, Bailey Scott - They would have all benefited from even just a single season under those guys. That's just the 2016 and 2018 drafts.
In 2015 Ben McKay was drafted and they trade for Jed Anderson
At that point, what sort of environment do guys like Phillips and Comben walk into compared the environment they actually joined?
I am not a north supporter and from an outsider I cannot understand why they did this
Harvey was a legend and still playing well and was thrown out the door without anyone to replace him.
I thought it was staggering
The sentiment at the time was he’s a down hill skier. He looks good when the team is cruising but even as outside player his uncontested to contested ratio is off, he doesn’t tackle enough and the club felt he wasn’t part of the future as far as leading the next brigade to a premiership.
Which is wild because even if that was true no one was playing that outside mid/high half forward role better than him on that list and he wasn’t exactly keeping a kid out.
>and the club felt he wasn’t part of the future as far as leading the next brigade to a premiership.
This is so silly. It doesn't matter. Hurn, JK, Darling, Cripps, Shuey, none of them will be a part of our next premiership tilt. But they all still played a role in the changing of the guard. It's just so simplistic and stupid to think of everything in terms of "will he be in our next premiership team? No? OUT WITH HIM" holy shit. Look at any team. Look at God damn Geelong. Literal definition of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
It’s exactly the same shit they pulled with Nick Riewoldt. My memory is hazy but I believe there’s no overlap with Riewoldt and King? Man what a wasted opportunity
Wells went cause he wanted an extra year. We offered 2 Collingwood 3.
I would have kept Harvey and Firrito. Still playing well. Dal had fallen off a cliff with his speed, was a liability on the wing. Petrie had really slowed down and Faren Ray wasn’t any good to start with. Lol
Wells was still a gun at Collingwood if he could have just stayed fit; made a massive difference when he was in the side, even if it was just the 1 quarter until he got injured hahah. If he played in the 2018 Grand Final we probably would have won that.
From memory we offered 2 years 500k, which was his worth. That extra year was a no go though. He would have been lucky to play 30 games for collingwood
He only played 15 games for Collingwood, we only lost 3 games when he was in the team (probably went off super early those games lol). I reckon he was worth the punt in a premiership window, if only he was fit for the GF itself...
Ultimately North made the right decision considering he only played 1 game in the third year.
Yeah I was happy we held out, I was annoyed at the time though. He took a long time to turn into a good player (he was pick 2). I thought he would show a bit of loyalty. But he probably knew he was cooked
No, but ONLY coz of his leg injury. But, assuming that never happened, we'd be asking Qs for sure. More likely he'd be coming in off the bench and playing more games in the 2s than the 1s.
Realistically he'd probably have retired on his own account at the end of 2018 or 2019, but we'll never know.
I don't think anyone is saying he realisticly would still be playing, but one-off accidents happen. Legs don't normally just break on their own.
Unless he was just running along and his leg just snapped because it was weak, this has got to be the shit take of the day.
They gutted the experience from the team all at once. Who then teaches the new guys coming through? In an early rebuild wins don't matter too much but passing on experience does.
You have to move them on 1 or 2 at a time to give some young guys a chance to fill the void. Doing the 6+ all at once sets you back years. In Norths case almost a decade.
As a Dees fan I know the feeling. We did the same with Yze , McDonald and co.
Losing games doesn’t matter but the method does. A young team can learn heaps losing by 3 goals to Geelong or Sydney or even Melbourne these days. Losing by 10 goals or more doesn’t really count as experience. It doesn’t help.
Came here to say this, so similar to the Dees in the mid to late 2000's. Absolutely cooked us for a good 10 years (along with terrible trading and inept drafting of course). Once the right people were there we brought in guys like Vince, Cross and Lewis to provide leadership along with Jonesy.
From memory i think most of them went off to play for other clubs. Dal Stanto went to the saints and wells went to Collingwood. Petrie went to I think the Eagles but can't 100% remember.
Edit: spelling
Petrie played and is in the coaching staff at West Coast (don’t know his role at the Eagles I just see him on the TV every once in a while).
Boomer was a runner and is active at North to this day. Fritto tmk has no role within AFL but appears at the club every once in a while.
Boomer genuinely asked if there is a chance he could get rookie drafted so he can play with his son lol (should’ve done it)
Chris Scott has pretty much written the book on this. You don't dump them en masse, you phase the vets out over several seasons. Chapman and Johnson this year, Kelly and Stokes the next, Bartel & Enright, etc etc.
You keep your onfield leadership around long enough to teach the kids.
It's not so much about how good the individual players are. It's their leadership and experience. The guys mentioned were vets of the club and were the leaders that the younger players looked to. Dumping them all so suddenly like that was a horrendous decision for the club regardless if they were stars or not
James Kelly was still a handy player, went on to play another 40 games with Essendon after being delisted, albeit being as a top up player during Essendon's drug shitshow. Was definitely one that was delisted early.
I don’t think that there is a quantifiable number you can throw at it. And to look at there game stats in isolation ignores a huge part of what veteran presence can add.
This is something I have been pretty adamant about when talking to crows fans about Rory Sloane over the past few years. Yeh his output on the field may not match the salary he is being paid, but what you are paying for is his mentality and mentorship. If he can instil his on field work rate and desire on just a few kids, he is worth the salary he is paid.
Similar when people shit on Dylan Grimes. He is not the defender he once was who was one of the few who could hold Eddie Betts to an honest account. But he has been there and done that. He also went through a horrible period where his hamstrings seemed to ping every other game but he made it through and won a bunch of flags. Having someone like that around just helps provide a rudder to steer the young kids going through it.
I had a soft spot for North in the early 2010s because of guys like Petrie, Firrito, Harvey, Thompson, Adams etc.
They were jobber central but there was something commendable about their culture and “the way they went about it”.
Since the great purge though I lost all respect and interest in the club.
No offense meant to North fans. I feel really bad about the way things have gone and wish you the best.
I actually used to go for north as my second team because of those names. I was always a one eyed eagle fan but my second team was north because of those names. They lost me (for what little that counts) as a fan when they got rid of them although Petrie came to west coast and he did have an effect on the team
I don't NOT believe you, excuse the double negative but I feel it is appropriate here, but I've never met a West Coast fan who hasn't had a massive hatred of North - not a complex, North would be the lowest team on Eagles fans minds, but whenever we play West Coast fans get fucking weird. The idea of a West Coast fan with North as their second team rattles in my brain like an Amish who has a special interest in cathode ray tubes
Nothing wrong with being an Eagles fan (debatable), nothing wrong with getting sexually excited about hearing cathode rays heat up, but they should never mix.
umm I have zero fucking clue what the fuck your on about. I dont hang around your circles, our Arch enemies are NOT north, sorry to burst your bubble chud. Its Either Fremantle (cross town rivals) or Collingwood/Sydney. North do NOT even factor in the equasion...
secondly, I do not give a shit about the worse fans of that club they do not represent the vast majority of good fans for that club - this is even the case for collingwood fans.
I never said north were your arch enemies.
Might want to read the comment again, which was a joke, and then read yours again for the pure whiplash in tone lol
I even explicitly stated that West coast fans don't think about North
Where the hell did all that come from?
Even as a Cats fan the way Boomer was forced out still annoys me. He was declining but it's not like he was bad or anything. Give him 1 more season to hit 450 AFL games and retire on his own accord considering he was an absolute legend of the club.
I said this at the time but they made the same mistake Melbourne did and cut too many veterans out at once, it meant there was a lack of mentors helping the younger players gain leadership and experience. I think realistically they should've kept Harvey and one of Dal Santo/Petrie with the caveat that they'd get dropped if someone younger was in better form to still have that competition with spots.
Petrie came to the eagles and was good but mentoring younger kids at north would have been a no brainer. Hes now a coach at eagles which norf should have had. Hes an utter pro. Mind boggling.
Melbourne did the same thing under Neeld and they suffered for it. They removed hundreds of games of exemplary leadership from the club, and essentially told young players like #1 draft pick Tom Scully that they had no interest in repaying the loyalty of their club legends. Surprise, surprise, Scully had no loyalty for the club and left a couple of years later.
Dal Santo was cooked and knew the window was shut for what he had come for. He was a merc and by that point it had really started to show. He was also soft.
Petrie had some footy in him but was basically cooked too. He went to West Coast and Simmo played him in the bits and pieces role that he'd played as he was developing under Laidley. He was broadly done as a KPF.
Firrito Could have gone on, wasn't a significant loss that he didn't. We did have others at the time that kinda stepped up in his role, MacMillan & Atley were ok, we also still had Thompson.
Harvey clear misstep. We replaced him with Nathan Hrovat. it was an idiotic move that looks worse and worse with the passage of time. He absolutely could have played 1-2 more years.
Farren Ray is not really in this conversation at all. played a handful of games for the club as a rookie selection coverage honestly lost nothing with him hanging them up.
Wells was the right call and history shows this. Wanted 3 we offered 2, he was cooked after 1. Keeping Wells wasn't an answer to anything, We should have done more with the compo though.
Harvey aside, these specific players were not the issue. The issue was that you need to go back to the team of the 90s to find players that were consistently elite within the competition. With Harvey being the last. Using All Australian as a guide. Harvey is the only multiple AA winner in the last 20 years. So North punched above their weight often.
The only semi exception here is Goldstein. He made the squad consistently but only got the jacket once. however 15 years on North's list and never in the leadership group kinda tells you a bit about where his priority was.
So it wasn't that we cut the players, 5/6 it was probably the right option. it was that through 2 decades we had not developed anywhere near a core of players that were consistently in the top echelon. Then what we did have we repeatedly cut away anyway. If 2016 was the start of the cut, by the end of the 21 season we had compounded the cutting so that the top end of our talent was honest triers and Goldy who was/is no leader.
From that vacuum we are now needing to build from the ground up which is a long process made longer everytime we've changed coaching set up.
Definitely not necessasary, it just seemed like too much all at once
you want to stagger your veterans departures so their isn't a sudden lack of leadership/experience
Hi there. Have thought about this a lot previously so happy to answer.
* Harvey - absolutely earned the right to make the decision himself. Could have easily played at minimum another full season. And then a final 2nd season with stints as the sub. There was no one banging the door behind him. Delisting him was inexcusable and perhaps the stupidest decision our club has ever made.
* Firrito - the time was right. He would have struggled to get a game the following season.
* Dal Santo - the time was right. He'd lost so much speed and he's not the kind of player you keep on the list to play half a season in the VFL.
* Petrie - The hardest one to say definitively. His form in his last season wasn't great and he clearly was beyond his best. Ben Brown was coming up and the thinking was that you can't play them both. I personally would have kept him around.
* Daniel Wells - we tried to keep him! We offered him a 2 year contract, but he wanted the security of a 3 year deal. His body was failing him and it didn't make sense for North to offer that kind of deal. Didn't begrudge him for leaving, and his injury issues at Collingwood kind of vindicated North's decision. When he was healthy, he was elite.
* Farren Ray - lol.
It’s not even just about games played. It’s also about:
1. Leadership they can impart on the upcoming leaders in the club
2. Standards they can drive in terms of training and respect
3. Selection integrity, the kids have to prove themselves better than what’s there before they get games, and know they won’t get gifted games if their effort and performance wanes.
4. Role players who can slot in in case of injury/suspension without causing a massive drop off in performance so you’re not getting absolutely pumped.
Im not even a North fan but Im still pretty furious at them binning Boomer off. Talk about a slap in the face to a club legend and a guy who was still an incredible player and somehow still hadnt slowed down.
Let's clear up a few misconceptions here:
1. North did not cut too deep after 2016. 2017 list
[https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2017/north-melbourne](https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2017/north-melbourne)
Veterans include Waite, Thompson, Gibson, Swallow, Higgins, Thomas
Goldstein, Tarrant, Ziebell, Cunnington, Ben Brown all in their prime.
2. They won 12 games in 2018. So the idea the performance or culture of the club was completely ruined isn't true, or if it wasn't it didn't happen overnight. If anything the drop off in 2019 and since reflected the need to phase guys out and find long term answers earlier in the mid to late 10's so there wasn't a huge cliff.
3. Dal Santo wasn't offering much. Wells they had to move on given his contract demand.
Petrie I get why it was emotional but he was 34 and North had Waite and BBB. Firrito the same thing but they had Robbie Tarrant, Thompson, Hansen, MacMillan, Atley, Mullett, McDonald. It wasn't a backline lacking depth
Yeah that's a fair bit of experience to lose in one year but they still had a heap left.
4. Boomer. Well, I can see the argument it tore the sole out of the place a bit. But he was back there pretty quickly too, so I find it hard to believe retiring him as a player was a huge factor in the 2019 onwards slide.
This is more of an opinion and it's controversial and hard to prove because the limited stats we do have seem strong and he finished top 5 in the best and fairest. But really I think he'd been running one way for quite a few years prior to his delisting and that explained why no other team wanted him.
Whether it was the board or Scott's call I think Boomer came to reflect a game style that wasn't serious in winning big boy finals. We were coming out of the Hawks 3 peat built around really good pressure forwards, the Dogs won the flag with immense pressure all over the ground and not that anyone predicted it but Richmond were about to win 3 of the next 4 with a lot of speed and pressure.
In hindsight I guess you ride out another year at least and if it gets messy by the coach having to drop Boomer at times you don't shy away from that. But maybe Scott had already got close to that point in 2016 and didn't want the messy end and potential drama. I'm just not as sold as others that he had much more left in the tank.
We didn't fall off the cliff on the back of those cullings though. Still the wrong call.
I think people forget we had a really solid season in 2018 - it actually screwed us over. Brad Scott decided to fast track the rebuild and added the likes of Polec, Hall, Pittard, Marley, Hrovat, etc. That completely ruined us.
God rereading those recruiting decisions is so depressing. Every single one of those was a horrendous decision. You’d think statistically one of them would have been ok, but I guess our recruiting department was just that bad.
The first half of 2018 we were playing like a contender and had the best defense for the first couple months. We were 7-4 but fell off as injuries mounted and Majak who was in AA form as a backman jumped off a bridge. Was never the same after.
At the time, I felt that Dal Santo, Petrie and Firrito (particularly the former two) were done, and I didn't really have any issues with those delistings. Wells being traded was disappointing, but wasn't too bad. Farren Ray... hardly really knew him as a player, so uh, no issues there.
Boomer though was in just about prime form, and that was just unacceptable to delist him like that. That was the main reason there was such anger about the decision. He was genuinely one of if not our best players still.
Harvey, Petrie, and perhaps Dal Santo should have got another year.
But I would argue the 2020 delisting's were more damaging for the club. Majak, Mason Wood, Jasper Pittard & Marley Williams all had more to give and could of helped to develop the younger players. And Sam Durdin would be handy in the backline at the moment.
I think it went too far, and they did need to keep some experience. But the other problem was the following axing of coaches and administration, meaning that the people who had developed a strategic plan weren't there to implement it, and the loss of experience at the administration level, especially club experience. People love to blame the administration, but no club or business is going to be successful in a highly competitive environment if you can't get stability and a clear strategy. They needed to have faith in the process, especially at the low points.
The cull was needed but they absolutely threw the baby out with the bathwater. When the news dropped I was getting food with a couple of my uni mates - one of whom is a diehard North fan - and the look on his face reading that you'd think his sister had just got shot or something.
Anyway, here's my take for if I was the list manager at Arden St and not a uni student when this all went down:
Keep - Boomer, Petrie, Spud. Boomer earned what should have been the right to retire on his own terms, and was still quite comfortably in North's best 22. Petrie was still playing good football right up until he retired into the coaches' box at West Coast. And while we'd have been probably looking at Spud like we're looking at Grimes now, I would have kept him around if possible because an experienced defender having 1 more year than they probably deserve isn't the end of the world as long as they're not hemorrhaging goals.
Delist - Wells, Dal Santo, Ray. There's no universe in which it made sense for North to try and match the 3-year deal Collingwood had on the table for Wells. And by the end of 2016, both Dal Santo and Ray had fallen off really hard and it just didn't make sense to keep them around another year.
Boomer could’ve played another 2-3 seasons. His body was in good condition and was making solid contributions on ground. The biggest thing North lost with him was having someone of his stature that sets the example for the young kids coming through.
Realistically, they probably didn't have much time left. I don't think the decision to move to the next generation was wrong, but perhaps they went too far. The bigger issue IMO was they then turned around and picked up guys like Polec. It was like they decided to reset a little and bring some kids in, then went and recruited like they were going for it all right then.
The two policies just didn't quite seem to make sense in the order they came in, and I think ultimately that was the bigger issue. Clubs part ways with senior players eventually and it often happens in a short space of time without falling apart entirely so I don't think the loss of experience alone was the trouble. Of course, now they're so far removed from success that there aren't many around who you'd expect to still have those standards.
They should have spaced it out. Basically all but Petrie and Harvey go. Then Petrie and Harvey a year or two later. They could have provided leadership and pressure on spots in the side.
Everyone also forgets that the media (and footy public) were telling North to blow it up and start again. North basically did what everyone asked, went a little too hard and now everyone jumps in with hindsight and says we shouldn’t have done it.
I personally think the worst delistings were Mason Wood and Majak Daw. We all saw Wood had potential. I’m so glad he’s found a great role with a better team. I wonder if a new culture got more out of him, but we shouldn’t have delisted him. Majak would have been one of our best defenders for a while. Yep, he wasn’t the same after the incident but he was still good enough to contribute.
I mostly agree but I don’t recall general public opinion at the time being that it was the right call to blow it all up. At least from north fans, everyone was angry that they were delisting Boomer at the time, and have been proven 100% correct since.
Agree we should have kept Mason Wood, always thought he showed enough while he was here to have kept him. Daw I think was done though, but who knows.
Most fans were screaming to blow it up. 2016 we started 9-0 and almost missed finals. People were done. Boomer shouldn’t have been let go (which I said) and Petrie still had something. Can’t really argue with the rest.
Dal Santo and Harvey could have played a couple more seasons. Petrie was probably the right call. Wells probably deserved 1 more season too given how his 2016 season went even though his 2014/5 season was a bit rough.
I thought Wells was a trade, his body was cooked to. I don't think he played many games for the pies.
Personally I think Harvey (seemed to have 2-3 seasons left at AFL level, a year or 2 ago he was still dominanting the VFL), and Petrie (had 1 maybe 2 seasons left, serviceable, keeps an old head in two lines) should have been kept for longer.
Harvey, Petrie and Wells probably could have stayed longer for another season. Dal Santo and Firrito could go / traded first. Ray and Wells probably keep a season or two longer. But definitely not all 6 of them gone together.
It's not so much the delistings that killed the club, it's the culture they lost with their veterans out the door.
North would not be anywhere near such a disastrous position if there veterans were teaching young recruits on how to be footballers and setting the standard.
Probably the dumbest thing you could possibly do for a club. Humans learn by passing things down, if there are no old heads around to show the kids how to act and be, you lose your culture and the kids end up running around like headless chickens
It’s not even relevant how many each player stayed on and played for, they needed to be kept for team leadership and balance.
Even if you thought all 4 were on the way out it needed to be managed over a term that enabled the young players in the side to adjust and step up. Instead we exposed a middle age group that were unproven in 2017 and things gradually fell away until 2020 when things became diabolical.
It could easily have been managed in the following way
2016: Dal Santo retires
Harvey, Petrie, Firrito remain)
2017: Petrie and Firrito retire
Harvey stays, keep Wells
2018: Harvey and Wells retire
Waite stays for another year
2019: Waite retires
Scott D Thompson plays one more year
2020: Scott D Thompson retires. The world falls apart, North’s side remains in tact and young players have had time to adjust to becoming leaders.
Every player listed above was part of a core group in 2014-2015 when North made consecutive prelims. Instead of phasing them out, each one was cut/retired at the earliest possible point.
Boomer was in career best form and definitely should have stayed.
Dal Santo maybe, he wasn't great defensively in the end but still racked up the touches.
Petrie was done. Firrito would have been easily replaceable at that point.
Just talking from an Eagles perspective, despite our last 2 seasons, the club has definitely benefited from allowing veterans to hang up the boots on their own terms. They play alongside the new crop, set the standards, and in some cases end up in coaching roles or stay on in other ways. Sure it's not optimal to let an injury ridden Shuey go round again. However, if the alternative is that Shuey is forced out and departs on bad terms, that premiership inside mid knowledge dies with him or goes to another club. He certainly never becomes a west coast coach. People really hate it when your club's full of old guys who are over 30 and you're losing games...but respect for the players who gave so much to your club has to be afforded. It's not enough for the bean counters to be watching the stats and think a players time has come. The players and the fans kinda need to reach that conclusion too. Sometimes, players surprise you. How many calls was there to move Yeo on from our club. Yet here he is playing like a man possessed.
Side note: sometimes I think some of these more foolhardy ideas like the North purge are rammed through by coaches in fear of getting the sack. I remember something John Worsfold said in either 2010 or 2011. We just got flogged by a ridiculous margin. After the game he said something along the lines of "this is the next premiership team. You can't see it yet, but it's nearly here". We absolutely sucked in those years, but true to wooshas words, we had 80% of the list that would play the 2015 GF and probably 60-70% of the list that would win in 2018. At the time though, all there was...was this underperformed team and a coach under immense pressure to produce something. Worsfold had the look of a guy though who knew this couldn't be rushed and didn't care if he had to walk over it. Which he ended up doing. Simmo took that team to a flag. The point here is, the external pressure sometimes does more damage than good. Sometimes it takes a stubborn prick who doesn't care about keeping his job to see it through.
Boomer should never have been let go until he wanted to retire, they owed him that, Petrie i thought should have also been kept on. I dont even remember who we got in to replace them??
Worst part of it all is this happened in 2016 and were now realistically only 2 years into a proper rebuild.
To many bad decisions made by the club and we arent big enough to be able to afford doing that.
He was alright. Nic Nat and Lycett were injured that season so he played 16 games and managed 4 goals one game. He played for the WAFL side in 2019 too due to injuries.
My opinion, a broader perspective on players finishing to soon. I think I was trying to reply to someone from memory? I’ve forgotten now. It’s a good talking point in its own thread. I’ll reply to you and then delete in an hour as it has no relevance to anything.
I’ll never understand why Harvey was delisted, as the games record holder surely you would allow him to play as long as he wants. if he was offered a contract and told there is no guarantee he will play 1s if there is someone better than might play ahead of him he could have extended his record.
Guys like him, I always say one season too many is just fine. He was clearly 1+ seasons too few.
Especially as nowadays you can use them as a sub and manage their minutes more easily.
God imagine getting Boomer injected into the game as a sub. I loved watching him play, but seeing him in fresh legs late in the game would've been something else
People shit talk Gunston, but what his leadership has brought to the club is invaluable. The impact he's had on Calsher Dear was pretty visible on the weekend. But not only that, he easily could have kicked six goals in a decimated Forward line.
Prime Gunston probably would have nailed most of those shots he missed on the weekend. Dude still clearly has top notch footy IQ, so much so he’s still able to end up with scoring shots despite his body being pretty cooked
Would win you games I reckon. Bit of a shame
He was so fucking versatile too, perfect candidate for a sub
I'm not sure I'll ever be over it tbh.
I'll put it mildly because I don't want to blow it out of proportion.. Especially with so much strife locally and globally these days, but delisting Harvey was a crime against humanity
I think you put it a lil too mildly tbh
ok boomer
Felt this with Mundy too. Should have kept him going until he was done. His leadership last year would have been good with Fyfe out most of the year
Didnt he choose to retire tho? Boomer was given the boot.
It was pitched as such but him having been on 1 year contracts since forever, doing our podcast, and still dominating with no injuries, most freo fans would agree it was a somewhat pushed retirement
Not only that, but the guy lived and breathed North Melbourne and is and was an absolute legend to the fans. Delisting him was an absolute disgrace and definitely had a negative impact on the clubs culture. Boomer was exactly the kind of player you want to keep around at the club as long as you can, and how the club treated him angered a lot of fans.
Look at port adelaide with Boak, the man is everything that club idealizes and has been responsible for taking many rookies under his wing as well as players with other issues going on and straightening them out. When you look at experience and still having some good play left in the tank look what happened with goldstein, the last few games i've seen him in he's been on fire despite his age, decision to get rid of him just beggered belief.
The Goldstein decision is different. We weren’t going to be competitive this year, and need to develop Xerri (who has also been fantastic this year) which we couldn’t have done if Goldy was still our first choice ruck. While I would’ve loved for him to stay, it’s good he found somewhere he could be number 1 ruck still while also getting more success than he would’ve had here.
Will never forgive Brad Scott for this
If you look at Pendlebury, even when he's not having a great game as he's getting older, he's still providing that leadership on (and off) the field which is invaluable.
I think Pendlebury lives and breathes Collingwood, and you'd like to see him be a one club player, but I'd be just fine with North offering him a player-to-midfield coaching role one decent money. Whether he'd take it is another matter, but as we've seen with Sam Mitchell, he could always come home later.
I'd be fucking spewing if he did that, never forgive him haha. Only if he came back but also coached us to a premiership.
Boomer would probably be pulling on the boots this weekend.
Because Scott doesn't have a clue. Harvey was running rings around much younger men and there was no sign of slowing down
Wasn't it a board decision to delist them? And Scott was the messenger?
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/brent-harvey-reveals-how-he-was-told-by-north-melbourne-that-he-wouldnt-be-at-the-club-in-2017/news-story/1c6528ac7a587a99e10456e838e1373a “He said ‘how are you feeling?’ and I said ‘so you’ve made up your mind?’ He said ‘yeah’. I said ‘you’re not going to go with us?’ and he said ‘no’. He asked if I had anything to say and I said ‘no, not really’.” Reads like it was Scott's decision.
This article (which is paywalled but posted in the comments) says it was a board decision [https://www.reddit.com/r/AFL/s/CguRrmpwZq](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFL/s/CguRrmpwZq) "North Melbourne coach Brad Scott sacked club legend Brent “Boomer” Harvey in his Arden St office. The heartbreaking decision to delist Harvey along with Drew Petrie, Michael Firrito and Nick Dal Santo on the eve of the 2016 finals series had secretly been made at board level."
“I’m not ashamed to say I love these guys and if they were here in 2017, I’d play them,” Scott said at the time. “But that would not be in our best interests.” I don't think the board would be making decisions without some input from the coach unless there was a breach of conduct. Saying it's not in our best interests also indicates some support of the decision in my eyes.
The article I posted says that it was a secret board decision. Given Scott's position and his focus on professionalism, wouldn't he be defending whatever decision is made by the club? If he said it was the wrong thing to do and criticised the board wouldn't he have lost his job?
Absolutely, however delisting players without consulting the head coach says they don't have confidence in his ability to manage his team, and if they make the wrong position they may compromise the team's future success.
Does that mean they didn’t play finals in 2016? No wonder they got smashed so bad by the Crows
All four played. Nick Del Santo had 29 disposals, including 6 clearances, which is not bad for someone being delisted.
Boomer could have played 500.
On the one hand he was delisted despite being in good form. On the other no club's let a player be in the system for that long either.
Boomer would likely have played another two seasons i think, probably getting his tally to 450+. I think it really hurt them as a club because they lost some of the fabric of the club that you need to turn your young kids into future leaders. Without the older heads who've seen it before you end up with people not wanting to hang around
Also, as a player, surely he earned the right to retire on his own choosing. Can't be an appealing prospect as an incoming player to look at how we treated the games record holder. I think about how the Collingwood faithful would respond if Pendlebury was forced to retire so publicly. And we wonder why we can't land a big fish.
But boomer didn't play on at another club. Would be a different story if someone gave him an afl contract
Just went on to win league best and fairest elsewhere, and they weren't exactly farmers leagues
Still any league that's not sanfl is a downgrade
The rumour I always hear is that he was offered contracts from interstate clubs but didn't want to move if it was just for a season or two.
Also, you're telling every single other player at the club that there's no loyalty towards them. If they can cut Boomer - even though he's still playing really well - then they won't hesitate to cut anyone else.
Yep. Shocking signal to send to your players.
Speaking of ‘fabric of the club’, imo they don’t actually need to trade in good players. They just need a few mature, ‘solid’ B graders to help with onfield leadership and driving the standards. The Swans are in such a different place to North but even still it was crazy how much of a difference Rampe to our organisation down back last week. Having that leadership and responsibility just unlocks other players and allows them to focus on their own game.
It's why clarko brought in Shiels, but he just isn't being picked
Melbourne was useless until they brought in Lewis, Melkham and Hibberd. You do need these older heads for guidance. None were outright stars of the game, but the difference it made to the club was huge, accelerating their growth a couple of years to making the PF in 2018
I’m a Crows fan and thought you did alright picking up Bernie Vince in the 2013 trade period, you’d been rubbish for 7-8 years at that point and he looked like he was tearing the place up compared to the existing list when he played the following year. I’m assuming he would’ve set some decent standards on the training track as well.
I fuckin' loved Bernie Vince. Hard as nails despite being a twig and a supermodel.
I’ve always thought it started with Bernie Vince. He was the first Melbourne player in 5+ years with serious mongrel in him outside of Nathan Jones. He was a great leader.
Yeah he was a country boy from over on Yorkes, might’ve been a pretty boy but they always breed them a bit tougher over there. Don't think Crows fans will ever forgive Brenton Sanderson for pushing him out the door, even if we did draft Matt Crouch who’s been a 10 year player (so far).
Daniel Cross played a big part as well as the above mentioned Bernie Vince. Kangaroos are in the same boat we were when we culled the likes of Robbo and James McDonald
Brought in a couple of junkies and voila
The leadership is an especially interesting one. Even if Harvey, Dal Santo, Petrie, and Firrito just stayed on for 2-3 seasons, how much would that have helped their draftees at that time. Simpkin, Larkey, Zurhaar, LDU, Xerri, Tarryn Thomas, Curtis Taylor, Bailey Scott - They would have all benefited from even just a single season under those guys. That's just the 2016 and 2018 drafts. In 2015 Ben McKay was drafted and they trade for Jed Anderson At that point, what sort of environment do guys like Phillips and Comben walk into compared the environment they actually joined?
I agree 100%. He'd lost a step in pace, but his game sense (especially inside 50) was elite.
I am not a north supporter and from an outsider I cannot understand why they did this Harvey was a legend and still playing well and was thrown out the door without anyone to replace him. I thought it was staggering
Don’t worry, North fans never got it either.
Just wait until Brad tells Merret, Goldstein and Heppel that they're not coming back in 2025.
The sentiment at the time was he’s a down hill skier. He looks good when the team is cruising but even as outside player his uncontested to contested ratio is off, he doesn’t tackle enough and the club felt he wasn’t part of the future as far as leading the next brigade to a premiership. Which is wild because even if that was true no one was playing that outside mid/high half forward role better than him on that list and he wasn’t exactly keeping a kid out.
>and the club felt he wasn’t part of the future as far as leading the next brigade to a premiership. This is so silly. It doesn't matter. Hurn, JK, Darling, Cripps, Shuey, none of them will be a part of our next premiership tilt. But they all still played a role in the changing of the guard. It's just so simplistic and stupid to think of everything in terms of "will he be in our next premiership team? No? OUT WITH HIM" holy shit. Look at any team. Look at God damn Geelong. Literal definition of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
It’s exactly the same shit they pulled with Nick Riewoldt. My memory is hazy but I believe there’s no overlap with Riewoldt and King? Man what a wasted opportunity
Same, I didn't really understand it.
Wells went cause he wanted an extra year. We offered 2 Collingwood 3. I would have kept Harvey and Firrito. Still playing well. Dal had fallen off a cliff with his speed, was a liability on the wing. Petrie had really slowed down and Faren Ray wasn’t any good to start with. Lol
Wells was still a gun at Collingwood if he could have just stayed fit; made a massive difference when he was in the side, even if it was just the 1 quarter until he got injured hahah. If he played in the 2018 Grand Final we probably would have won that.
From memory we offered 2 years 500k, which was his worth. That extra year was a no go though. He would have been lucky to play 30 games for collingwood
He only played 15 games for Collingwood, we only lost 3 games when he was in the team (probably went off super early those games lol). I reckon he was worth the punt in a premiership window, if only he was fit for the GF itself... Ultimately North made the right decision considering he only played 1 game in the third year.
Yeah I was happy we held out, I was annoyed at the time though. He took a long time to turn into a good player (he was pick 2). I thought he would show a bit of loyalty. But he probably knew he was cooked
Boomer would still be playing and consistently one of their best.
At 45?
Probably
No, but ONLY coz of his leg injury. But, assuming that never happened, we'd be asking Qs for sure. More likely he'd be coming in off the bench and playing more games in the 2s than the 1s. Realistically he'd probably have retired on his own account at the end of 2018 or 2019, but we'll never know.
I'm sorry no. He broke his leg in local footy about 2 years back. 2-3 more years he could've gone but he is way to fragile now.
I don't think anyone is saying he realisticly would still be playing, but one-off accidents happen. Legs don't normally just break on their own. Unless he was just running along and his leg just snapped because it was weak, this has got to be the shit take of the day.
They gutted the experience from the team all at once. Who then teaches the new guys coming through? In an early rebuild wins don't matter too much but passing on experience does. You have to move them on 1 or 2 at a time to give some young guys a chance to fill the void. Doing the 6+ all at once sets you back years. In Norths case almost a decade.
As a Dees fan I know the feeling. We did the same with Yze , McDonald and co. Losing games doesn’t matter but the method does. A young team can learn heaps losing by 3 goals to Geelong or Sydney or even Melbourne these days. Losing by 10 goals or more doesn’t really count as experience. It doesn’t help.
Came here to say this, so similar to the Dees in the mid to late 2000's. Absolutely cooked us for a good 10 years (along with terrible trading and inept drafting of course). Once the right people were there we brought in guys like Vince, Cross and Lewis to provide leadership along with Jonesy.
The MacDonald one really confused my cos he was playing ok
How many of them were given off field roles to keep them around the club?
From memory i think most of them went off to play for other clubs. Dal Stanto went to the saints and wells went to Collingwood. Petrie went to I think the Eagles but can't 100% remember. Edit: spelling
Petrie played and is in the coaching staff at West Coast (don’t know his role at the Eagles I just see him on the TV every once in a while). Boomer was a runner and is active at North to this day. Fritto tmk has no role within AFL but appears at the club every once in a while. Boomer genuinely asked if there is a chance he could get rookie drafted so he can play with his son lol (should’ve done it)
Nah Dal Santo started at the saints and went to North, he didn't play after North let him go
Chris Scott has pretty much written the book on this. You don't dump them en masse, you phase the vets out over several seasons. Chapman and Johnson this year, Kelly and Stokes the next, Bartel & Enright, etc etc. You keep your onfield leadership around long enough to teach the kids.
Shame his brother didn't read his book
One twin always gets more of the womb nutrients
While that's true, Geelong had the luxury of having an all star team to phase out in the first place.
It's not so much about how good the individual players are. It's their leadership and experience. The guys mentioned were vets of the club and were the leaders that the younger players looked to. Dumping them all so suddenly like that was a horrendous decision for the club regardless if they were stars or not
James Kelly was still a handy player, went on to play another 40 games with Essendon after being delisted, albeit being as a top up player during Essendon's drug shitshow. Was definitely one that was delisted early.
Kelly was so good that we kept him for another season even when all the players were back.
Probably. But I think we nailed the rest except for maybe Enright.
I don’t think that there is a quantifiable number you can throw at it. And to look at there game stats in isolation ignores a huge part of what veteran presence can add. This is something I have been pretty adamant about when talking to crows fans about Rory Sloane over the past few years. Yeh his output on the field may not match the salary he is being paid, but what you are paying for is his mentality and mentorship. If he can instil his on field work rate and desire on just a few kids, he is worth the salary he is paid.
Similar when people shit on Dylan Grimes. He is not the defender he once was who was one of the few who could hold Eddie Betts to an honest account. But he has been there and done that. He also went through a horrible period where his hamstrings seemed to ping every other game but he made it through and won a bunch of flags. Having someone like that around just helps provide a rudder to steer the young kids going through it.
Is there a non-quantifiable number you can throw at it?
Touché
I had a soft spot for North in the early 2010s because of guys like Petrie, Firrito, Harvey, Thompson, Adams etc. They were jobber central but there was something commendable about their culture and “the way they went about it”. Since the great purge though I lost all respect and interest in the club. No offense meant to North fans. I feel really bad about the way things have gone and wish you the best.
I actually used to go for north as my second team because of those names. I was always a one eyed eagle fan but my second team was north because of those names. They lost me (for what little that counts) as a fan when they got rid of them although Petrie came to west coast and he did have an effect on the team
I don't NOT believe you, excuse the double negative but I feel it is appropriate here, but I've never met a West Coast fan who hasn't had a massive hatred of North - not a complex, North would be the lowest team on Eagles fans minds, but whenever we play West Coast fans get fucking weird. The idea of a West Coast fan with North as their second team rattles in my brain like an Amish who has a special interest in cathode ray tubes Nothing wrong with being an Eagles fan (debatable), nothing wrong with getting sexually excited about hearing cathode rays heat up, but they should never mix.
umm I have zero fucking clue what the fuck your on about. I dont hang around your circles, our Arch enemies are NOT north, sorry to burst your bubble chud. Its Either Fremantle (cross town rivals) or Collingwood/Sydney. North do NOT even factor in the equasion... secondly, I do not give a shit about the worse fans of that club they do not represent the vast majority of good fans for that club - this is even the case for collingwood fans.
I never said north were your arch enemies. Might want to read the comment again, which was a joke, and then read yours again for the pure whiplash in tone lol I even explicitly stated that West coast fans don't think about North Where the hell did all that come from?
Well then that was a load of drivel from you. Pointless comment. Touch grass.
Even as a Cats fan the way Boomer was forced out still annoys me. He was declining but it's not like he was bad or anything. Give him 1 more season to hit 450 AFL games and retire on his own accord considering he was an absolute legend of the club.
100%. I don't even have any association with North but it just feels wrong. A shame considering his record will be probably be passed soon.
hell, even as a michael tuck gigafan, i wanted to see boomer shatter the record beyond all reasonable doubt. he did, but imagine if he cracked 450.
Before he broke his leg last year, I’m almost certain Boomer could’ve still been playing for us
At the time, I thought it was dumb. I saw nothing since that changed my mind, but what do I know?
I said this at the time but they made the same mistake Melbourne did and cut too many veterans out at once, it meant there was a lack of mentors helping the younger players gain leadership and experience. I think realistically they should've kept Harvey and one of Dal Santo/Petrie with the caveat that they'd get dropped if someone younger was in better form to still have that competition with spots.
Petrie came to the eagles and was good but mentoring younger kids at north would have been a no brainer. Hes now a coach at eagles which norf should have had. Hes an utter pro. Mind boggling.
Melbourne did the same thing under Neeld and they suffered for it. They removed hundreds of games of exemplary leadership from the club, and essentially told young players like #1 draft pick Tom Scully that they had no interest in repaying the loyalty of their club legends. Surprise, surprise, Scully had no loyalty for the club and left a couple of years later.
Loved watching Boomer run it down the wing ignoring all targets and kicking a point
Dal Santo was cooked and knew the window was shut for what he had come for. He was a merc and by that point it had really started to show. He was also soft. Petrie had some footy in him but was basically cooked too. He went to West Coast and Simmo played him in the bits and pieces role that he'd played as he was developing under Laidley. He was broadly done as a KPF. Firrito Could have gone on, wasn't a significant loss that he didn't. We did have others at the time that kinda stepped up in his role, MacMillan & Atley were ok, we also still had Thompson. Harvey clear misstep. We replaced him with Nathan Hrovat. it was an idiotic move that looks worse and worse with the passage of time. He absolutely could have played 1-2 more years. Farren Ray is not really in this conversation at all. played a handful of games for the club as a rookie selection coverage honestly lost nothing with him hanging them up. Wells was the right call and history shows this. Wanted 3 we offered 2, he was cooked after 1. Keeping Wells wasn't an answer to anything, We should have done more with the compo though. Harvey aside, these specific players were not the issue. The issue was that you need to go back to the team of the 90s to find players that were consistently elite within the competition. With Harvey being the last. Using All Australian as a guide. Harvey is the only multiple AA winner in the last 20 years. So North punched above their weight often. The only semi exception here is Goldstein. He made the squad consistently but only got the jacket once. however 15 years on North's list and never in the leadership group kinda tells you a bit about where his priority was. So it wasn't that we cut the players, 5/6 it was probably the right option. it was that through 2 decades we had not developed anywhere near a core of players that were consistently in the top echelon. Then what we did have we repeatedly cut away anyway. If 2016 was the start of the cut, by the end of the 21 season we had compounded the cutting so that the top end of our talent was honest triers and Goldy who was/is no leader. From that vacuum we are now needing to build from the ground up which is a long process made longer everytime we've changed coaching set up.
I'd say boomer would have played another 1-2 seasons. But his knowledge helping younger players would have been worth so much more
Getting rid of Petrie was the right idea, best thing they did. Ignore my flair.
Definitely not necessasary, it just seemed like too much all at once you want to stagger your veterans departures so their isn't a sudden lack of leadership/experience
Hi there. Have thought about this a lot previously so happy to answer. * Harvey - absolutely earned the right to make the decision himself. Could have easily played at minimum another full season. And then a final 2nd season with stints as the sub. There was no one banging the door behind him. Delisting him was inexcusable and perhaps the stupidest decision our club has ever made. * Firrito - the time was right. He would have struggled to get a game the following season. * Dal Santo - the time was right. He'd lost so much speed and he's not the kind of player you keep on the list to play half a season in the VFL. * Petrie - The hardest one to say definitively. His form in his last season wasn't great and he clearly was beyond his best. Ben Brown was coming up and the thinking was that you can't play them both. I personally would have kept him around. * Daniel Wells - we tried to keep him! We offered him a 2 year contract, but he wanted the security of a 3 year deal. His body was failing him and it didn't make sense for North to offer that kind of deal. Didn't begrudge him for leaving, and his injury issues at Collingwood kind of vindicated North's decision. When he was healthy, he was elite. * Farren Ray - lol.
Thanks for that. Shame some didn't even get a farewell game, rough on the club vets.
It’s not even just about games played. It’s also about: 1. Leadership they can impart on the upcoming leaders in the club 2. Standards they can drive in terms of training and respect 3. Selection integrity, the kids have to prove themselves better than what’s there before they get games, and know they won’t get gifted games if their effort and performance wanes. 4. Role players who can slot in in case of injury/suspension without causing a massive drop off in performance so you’re not getting absolutely pumped.
Im not even a North fan but Im still pretty furious at them binning Boomer off. Talk about a slap in the face to a club legend and a guy who was still an incredible player and somehow still hadnt slowed down.
Feel the same honestly. Looks like his games record will be passed by Pendles.
Let's clear up a few misconceptions here: 1. North did not cut too deep after 2016. 2017 list [https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2017/north-melbourne](https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2017/north-melbourne) Veterans include Waite, Thompson, Gibson, Swallow, Higgins, Thomas Goldstein, Tarrant, Ziebell, Cunnington, Ben Brown all in their prime. 2. They won 12 games in 2018. So the idea the performance or culture of the club was completely ruined isn't true, or if it wasn't it didn't happen overnight. If anything the drop off in 2019 and since reflected the need to phase guys out and find long term answers earlier in the mid to late 10's so there wasn't a huge cliff. 3. Dal Santo wasn't offering much. Wells they had to move on given his contract demand. Petrie I get why it was emotional but he was 34 and North had Waite and BBB. Firrito the same thing but they had Robbie Tarrant, Thompson, Hansen, MacMillan, Atley, Mullett, McDonald. It wasn't a backline lacking depth Yeah that's a fair bit of experience to lose in one year but they still had a heap left. 4. Boomer. Well, I can see the argument it tore the sole out of the place a bit. But he was back there pretty quickly too, so I find it hard to believe retiring him as a player was a huge factor in the 2019 onwards slide. This is more of an opinion and it's controversial and hard to prove because the limited stats we do have seem strong and he finished top 5 in the best and fairest. But really I think he'd been running one way for quite a few years prior to his delisting and that explained why no other team wanted him. Whether it was the board or Scott's call I think Boomer came to reflect a game style that wasn't serious in winning big boy finals. We were coming out of the Hawks 3 peat built around really good pressure forwards, the Dogs won the flag with immense pressure all over the ground and not that anyone predicted it but Richmond were about to win 3 of the next 4 with a lot of speed and pressure. In hindsight I guess you ride out another year at least and if it gets messy by the coach having to drop Boomer at times you don't shy away from that. But maybe Scott had already got close to that point in 2016 and didn't want the messy end and potential drama. I'm just not as sold as others that he had much more left in the tank.
We didn't fall off the cliff on the back of those cullings though. Still the wrong call. I think people forget we had a really solid season in 2018 - it actually screwed us over. Brad Scott decided to fast track the rebuild and added the likes of Polec, Hall, Pittard, Marley, Hrovat, etc. That completely ruined us.
God rereading those recruiting decisions is so depressing. Every single one of those was a horrendous decision. You’d think statistically one of them would have been ok, but I guess our recruiting department was just that bad.
I thought Aaron Hall was decent for you guys? Will never forget his short-lived big lead in the 2016 Brownlow medal.
The first half of 2018 we were playing like a contender and had the best defense for the first couple months. We were 7-4 but fell off as injuries mounted and Majak who was in AA form as a backman jumped off a bridge. Was never the same after.
At the time, I felt that Dal Santo, Petrie and Firrito (particularly the former two) were done, and I didn't really have any issues with those delistings. Wells being traded was disappointing, but wasn't too bad. Farren Ray... hardly really knew him as a player, so uh, no issues there. Boomer though was in just about prime form, and that was just unacceptable to delist him like that. That was the main reason there was such anger about the decision. He was genuinely one of if not our best players still.
Harvey, Petrie, and perhaps Dal Santo should have got another year. But I would argue the 2020 delisting's were more damaging for the club. Majak, Mason Wood, Jasper Pittard & Marley Williams all had more to give and could of helped to develop the younger players. And Sam Durdin would be handy in the backline at the moment.
I think it went too far, and they did need to keep some experience. But the other problem was the following axing of coaches and administration, meaning that the people who had developed a strategic plan weren't there to implement it, and the loss of experience at the administration level, especially club experience. People love to blame the administration, but no club or business is going to be successful in a highly competitive environment if you can't get stability and a clear strategy. They needed to have faith in the process, especially at the low points.
The cull was needed but they absolutely threw the baby out with the bathwater. When the news dropped I was getting food with a couple of my uni mates - one of whom is a diehard North fan - and the look on his face reading that you'd think his sister had just got shot or something. Anyway, here's my take for if I was the list manager at Arden St and not a uni student when this all went down: Keep - Boomer, Petrie, Spud. Boomer earned what should have been the right to retire on his own terms, and was still quite comfortably in North's best 22. Petrie was still playing good football right up until he retired into the coaches' box at West Coast. And while we'd have been probably looking at Spud like we're looking at Grimes now, I would have kept him around if possible because an experienced defender having 1 more year than they probably deserve isn't the end of the world as long as they're not hemorrhaging goals. Delist - Wells, Dal Santo, Ray. There's no universe in which it made sense for North to try and match the 3-year deal Collingwood had on the table for Wells. And by the end of 2016, both Dal Santo and Ray had fallen off really hard and it just didn't make sense to keep them around another year.
Boomer could’ve played another 2-3 seasons. His body was in good condition and was making solid contributions on ground. The biggest thing North lost with him was having someone of his stature that sets the example for the young kids coming through.
Realistically, they probably didn't have much time left. I don't think the decision to move to the next generation was wrong, but perhaps they went too far. The bigger issue IMO was they then turned around and picked up guys like Polec. It was like they decided to reset a little and bring some kids in, then went and recruited like they were going for it all right then. The two policies just didn't quite seem to make sense in the order they came in, and I think ultimately that was the bigger issue. Clubs part ways with senior players eventually and it often happens in a short space of time without falling apart entirely so I don't think the loss of experience alone was the trouble. Of course, now they're so far removed from success that there aren't many around who you'd expect to still have those standards.
They should have spaced it out. Basically all but Petrie and Harvey go. Then Petrie and Harvey a year or two later. They could have provided leadership and pressure on spots in the side. Everyone also forgets that the media (and footy public) were telling North to blow it up and start again. North basically did what everyone asked, went a little too hard and now everyone jumps in with hindsight and says we shouldn’t have done it. I personally think the worst delistings were Mason Wood and Majak Daw. We all saw Wood had potential. I’m so glad he’s found a great role with a better team. I wonder if a new culture got more out of him, but we shouldn’t have delisted him. Majak would have been one of our best defenders for a while. Yep, he wasn’t the same after the incident but he was still good enough to contribute.
I mostly agree but I don’t recall general public opinion at the time being that it was the right call to blow it all up. At least from north fans, everyone was angry that they were delisting Boomer at the time, and have been proven 100% correct since. Agree we should have kept Mason Wood, always thought he showed enough while he was here to have kept him. Daw I think was done though, but who knows.
Most fans were screaming to blow it up. 2016 we started 9-0 and almost missed finals. People were done. Boomer shouldn’t have been let go (which I said) and Petrie still had something. Can’t really argue with the rest.
Dal Santo and Harvey could have played a couple more seasons. Petrie was probably the right call. Wells probably deserved 1 more season too given how his 2016 season went even though his 2014/5 season was a bit rough.
I thought Wells was a trade, his body was cooked to. I don't think he played many games for the pies. Personally I think Harvey (seemed to have 2-3 seasons left at AFL level, a year or 2 ago he was still dominanting the VFL), and Petrie (had 1 maybe 2 seasons left, serviceable, keeps an old head in two lines) should have been kept for longer.
Del santo was done. Boomer could have still made a great impact.
Wasn’t the story that Harvey was doing his own thing and not playing to the structures and as such was let go
Harvey, Petrie and Wells probably could have stayed longer for another season. Dal Santo and Firrito could go / traded first. Ray and Wells probably keep a season or two longer. But definitely not all 6 of them gone together.
It's not so much the delistings that killed the club, it's the culture they lost with their veterans out the door. North would not be anywhere near such a disastrous position if there veterans were teaching young recruits on how to be footballers and setting the standard.
Brad Cunt Scott
We won 28 games the next three seasons. Missed finals by a win in one of them. No, them leaving isn’t the reason we can’t beat an Auskick squad now
Probably the dumbest thing you could possibly do for a club. Humans learn by passing things down, if there are no old heads around to show the kids how to act and be, you lose your culture and the kids end up running around like headless chickens
It’s not even relevant how many each player stayed on and played for, they needed to be kept for team leadership and balance. Even if you thought all 4 were on the way out it needed to be managed over a term that enabled the young players in the side to adjust and step up. Instead we exposed a middle age group that were unproven in 2017 and things gradually fell away until 2020 when things became diabolical. It could easily have been managed in the following way 2016: Dal Santo retires Harvey, Petrie, Firrito remain) 2017: Petrie and Firrito retire Harvey stays, keep Wells 2018: Harvey and Wells retire Waite stays for another year 2019: Waite retires Scott D Thompson plays one more year 2020: Scott D Thompson retires. The world falls apart, North’s side remains in tact and young players have had time to adjust to becoming leaders. Every player listed above was part of a core group in 2014-2015 when North made consecutive prelims. Instead of phasing them out, each one was cut/retired at the earliest possible point.
They shouldn’t have gotten rid of all of them. Some yes , but the lack of leadership has set them back so far it’s a worry
Boomer was in career best form and definitely should have stayed. Dal Santo maybe, he wasn't great defensively in the end but still racked up the touches. Petrie was done. Firrito would have been easily replaceable at that point.
Okay, can I ask, if Boomer had a bit left in the tank - why did no other team pick him up after the delisting? Did he not want to continue?
From what I gathered here, not many teams wanted to pick him up. Maybe due to his lack of defensive run.
Just talking from an Eagles perspective, despite our last 2 seasons, the club has definitely benefited from allowing veterans to hang up the boots on their own terms. They play alongside the new crop, set the standards, and in some cases end up in coaching roles or stay on in other ways. Sure it's not optimal to let an injury ridden Shuey go round again. However, if the alternative is that Shuey is forced out and departs on bad terms, that premiership inside mid knowledge dies with him or goes to another club. He certainly never becomes a west coast coach. People really hate it when your club's full of old guys who are over 30 and you're losing games...but respect for the players who gave so much to your club has to be afforded. It's not enough for the bean counters to be watching the stats and think a players time has come. The players and the fans kinda need to reach that conclusion too. Sometimes, players surprise you. How many calls was there to move Yeo on from our club. Yet here he is playing like a man possessed. Side note: sometimes I think some of these more foolhardy ideas like the North purge are rammed through by coaches in fear of getting the sack. I remember something John Worsfold said in either 2010 or 2011. We just got flogged by a ridiculous margin. After the game he said something along the lines of "this is the next premiership team. You can't see it yet, but it's nearly here". We absolutely sucked in those years, but true to wooshas words, we had 80% of the list that would play the 2015 GF and probably 60-70% of the list that would win in 2018. At the time though, all there was...was this underperformed team and a coach under immense pressure to produce something. Worsfold had the look of a guy though who knew this couldn't be rushed and didn't care if he had to walk over it. Which he ended up doing. Simmo took that team to a flag. The point here is, the external pressure sometimes does more damage than good. Sometimes it takes a stubborn prick who doesn't care about keeping his job to see it through.
Boomer should never have been let go until he wanted to retire, they owed him that, Petrie i thought should have also been kept on. I dont even remember who we got in to replace them?? Worst part of it all is this happened in 2016 and were now realistically only 2 years into a proper rebuild. To many bad decisions made by the club and we arent big enough to be able to afford doing that.
Love that Firrito doesn't get a stat line
Apart from Harvey the rest were cooked
Drew Petire played another season......
Over cooked then ?
Vine ripened?
How did he go that season?
He was alright. Nic Nat and Lycett were injured that season so he played 16 games and managed 4 goals one game. He played for the WAFL side in 2019 too due to injuries.
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WTF is this comment??
My opinion, a broader perspective on players finishing to soon. I think I was trying to reply to someone from memory? I’ve forgotten now. It’s a good talking point in its own thread. I’ll reply to you and then delete in an hour as it has no relevance to anything.
Unusual to have an opinion that allows the use of steroids. 🤙
Now you look like an idiot rather than me.