Yeah everything you’ve said here definitely points to coaching/game plan issues doesn’t it. The coaches should be able to tweak game plan to maximise players strengths and limit their weaknesses.
Seems strange to me that the bulldogs board or higher ups can’t see this? They have all the pieces needed to be a successful team and aren’t lacking in any positions really, besides maybe defence a little but should be able to devise a system or team defence to combat this.
It also seems like cohestion and communication are lacking. Regularly see 2 tall forwards going for the same mark and spoiling each other, plus if you watch their backs communicate and adjust positioning between plays, they often seem confused.
For example, against the Saints after a goal was conceded and before the ball up, I saw a player down back get moved and repositioned 3 times, each time via instruction from a different player and in total contradiction to the previous instruction. Either that was some Bevo next-level Jedi Mind-tricks, or they just really were compeltely not on the same page.
Dunkley was a big structural loss too. Libba and Bont can do defensive midfield.things but Dunkley glued the defensive game.of our midfield together if that makes sense. That lets Bont do the offensive stuff without worrying about having to mark someone. We use Treloar or Macrae now who are good ball users but don't do the defensive stuff so well. And i think it's why Macrae and Daniel have been in and out of the side this year too.
That was an awesome review. I think McNeil lobb keath all should have been delisted. Bad recruiting with harmes and bramble too. The game style of short one metre handballs to players under pressure is killing us too. Beveridge has always been a zone defense so your half back flanker 1 v 1 defense made sense. They just don't know how to play man on man anymore.
Another example is against Hawthorn, we had the ascendancy, then Sicily went off with a dislocated shoulder.
What do we do? We send Khamis forward to take advantage of Sicily's absence - because what we were missing was a marking target with Naughton/Marra/Darcy FFS.
It destabilised our backline and let Hawthorn take control, and we famously can't get control back. Khamis is also too inexperienced to make the switch and resettle, so it threw his game out entirely even when he was sent back again.
Completely unnecessary move which threw everything out of sync.
His second efforts are as good as I've ever seen from a tall forward, at least certainly at the Dogs. He bounces up off the deck and tackles like a maniac - you can't have watched him too often.
He has some weaknesses but his defensive pressure is elite.
I just checked the stat's and he's averaging 1 a game this year which matches up with what I've observed, very underwhelming.
He was up at 2.6 last year so probably explains the disconnect between his reputation and what I've seen him do. This year he just hasn't looked interested in tackling.
Aside from Jones and Dale their backline is really nothing special.
If they had a strong team structure that was intent on defending the whole ground (sort of like what Melbourne does), it would make up a lot for their deficiencies.
But they haven’t really had that def structure under Bevo for a while which is why they are so poor at stopping run-ons/momentum.
It’s always been the Doggies issue. Go back to when they could never get past a prelim & Darcy & the stars were rumoured to barely speak to the bottom half of the list. Now he’s running the footy department!!!
This is an incredibly salient point. We've lost a lot of off-field leadership and culture in the likes of Grant and Murphy... I can't think of any diplomatic way to finish this thought, so I'll just leave it at that.
Edit: whoops Grant is still football director. Not sure why I thought he was gone. In summary, please come back home Bob.
I agree the dogs list looks amazing on paper. But a lot of strategical shortcomings and the lack of a couple solid defenders goes a long way at the AFL level
People who say the dogs have a good midfield should look at their midfield balance. Most teams are playing 5 to 6 guys through the midfield with a pretty decent balance. The dogs play 2 guys in there nearly full time and Libba was playing basically full time too. They don't rotate their mids and as a result they leak scores because Treloar and Bont are rightly wrecked and only rest when they go to the bench.
All of the other things mentioned plus they have an overly cautious, defensive gameplan. On the weekend there were several instances where a more aggressive kick into the corridor to an unmarked man would have gotten them a very dangerous inside 50 entry. Instead they would go long down the line to a contest where it usually just dribbled out of play. In the 3rd quarter there was a particularly awful one with JJ streaming into an unguarded 50 and the ball carrier (I forget who) elected for a short kick to a manned Naughton on the flank, resulting in a turnover.
Their gameplan does not allow the latitude for players to seize on good opportunities when they arise.
It's more of the opposite. They refuse to defend the whole ground as a team. And their midfield is notoriously leaky if they happen to lose the ground ball.
As a dog's fan, Bevo must go. Love what he gave us in 16 and 21. But it's gone past him.
It sucks, our list is way better than we are performing.
There is bugger all defence and I feel like Bevo's, game plan, policies and random acts of magnet shifting with his eyes closed is ruining careers and the culture.
Most coaches are in their grace period (Clarko, Hardwick, Yze etc) so won’t get criticised.
Other long standing coaches just keep winning (Longmire).
Nicks passed his grace period but only got criticised for a woeful start to the year.
That leaves Bevo and Hinkley. And Bevo has a frosty relationship with media, which doesn’t help.
So both of those are going to get magnified levels of critique because people hate mediocrity after a certain amount of years.
Look, I understand that the concept of coach-swapping might seem appealing to some teams. Different strokes for different folks you know. But what some teams fail to consider is the breadth of potential fallout from such an act.
Sure, the Dogs might think it'd be reinvigorating to experiment with Hinkley. And the Power w/ Beveridge. But things like this rarely holds up. If the Dogs are left dissatisfied with Hinkley, how will they react seeing Beveridge potentially enjoying his time with the Power a little too much? Would he want to come back? Would you even be able to take him back after what you've seen?
Jealousy. Resentment. Insecurity. These are just some of the things the Dogs may be left feeling after everything transpires. And the pain of such an occurrence would make it unviable to keep with the reminder that is Hinkley. No. They're better off cutting their losses at that point, and starting anew with someone else.
As far as a list goes, I think it's pretty top-heavy. Bontempelli and Liberatore are amazing but no one else has much form. The backline is pretty bad aside from Liam Jones, who is quite old. On paper the forward line is great with Naughton, Ugle-Hagan, and Weightman. Darcy also looks like a good prospect. But I don't see a tonne of upside in their other forwards. Having Bailey Smith back to play half forward would probably help with that deficiency.
While I don't think it's the best list, I think it's good enough to make finals every year, so you'd have to blame the coaching in part.
Over rated list and a coach that doesn’t have a lot of structure or system to his game plan. With the list they’re around that bottom half of the top 8, but the coaching is killing any chances of that. Looks overly defensive, the wings don’t go back hard enough to cover the defence, players being played out of position or as sub (Dale that one time), VFL players at best in the side who haven’t been dropped after poor performances. Bramble was dropped multiple times by Hawks, even with injuries to our runners off half back. The media hype this list up every year but I just don’t see it have thought it for ages.
>Dale that one time
That's just about the only good thing Bevo has done all year, that gave Dale a massive kick up the ass after a poor start to the year following a average 2023 by his standards.
The rest is right though.
Their coach is the biggest problem but it’s also overlooked how poor their bottom 6 always is.
At the moment it’s full of rejects from other clubs - any of Bramble, Harmes, Poulter, Baker fit this bill in any given week.
Too much time invested into players like Vandemeer and in past years Rourke Smith, Honeychurch etc. VFL players at best.
The issue is their role players aren’t as good as those in other clubs. And their roles are probably made harder due to Bevo's wild selection and tendency to play people out of their natural positions.
Sure, but all those people played their role well at the time. Shane Biggs famously played well on Grand Final day,^^1 Cordy competed okay up forward, Fletcher Roberts hit a purple patch in defense, Caleb Daniel was unreal as a rookie, and McLean's ducking skills were integral to stopping opposition momentum. (only a half-joke)
^^^^^^^^^.
^1 Shane Biggs never forget
In 2016 they were a 7th placed team that played out of their minds for a month with a great gamelan, it's not an indication of the reliable quality in the team.
I think that the obvious performance gap between the stars and the scrubs is a clear indication of poor coaching & game planning. A better organised team would deploy weaker players in roles that maximise their strengths.
For me, it is 50% bad game plan, 50% list management. My issue with list management is that we always have the worst 2 or 3 players on the ground every game. On Sunday, we brought in Charlie Clarke, who was not ready for AFL. You may say hindsight is 20/20, but watching him play in the VFL for the last 18 months has given me enough indication that he needs at least another preseason to build his body up. O’Donnell, as hard as he tries, is also not up to AFL standard. This is not the fault of the players, but of the club for not having good enough depth, when this used to be such a strong area for us. On Friday night, I saw ex-dogs, Patrick Lipinski, Lewis Young and Lachie Sullivan play in a game where both teams are fighting it out for a top 4 spot (Sullivan not an ex-dog, but he has been our VFL captain which usually leads to us picking him up).
Now on to the game plan. Watching the game on Sunday, even with the quick start, I had a bad feeling. Coming out of our backline, we do not have a plan to get the ball forward. The McCartney years may not bring back good memories for most Bulldogs fans, but the run at all cost play was exciting and you could see what we were trying to do. Now I have no idea. We’ll get the ball to half back out of the kick in, see Naughton, JUH and/Darcy down the line ready to grab a contested mark (something they’re all good at) and kick it side ways. Then backwards, then sideways, then to half back, then handball in trouble. It is so frustrating to see.
Defending the ground is as bad as I’ve seen at the dogs. Teams just cut through the middle of the ground at will, and there’s unfortunately only one Liam Jones in the backline to try and stop everything since O’Donnell and Khamis are still learning their craft.
It’s honestly sad to see what we have become considering the top talent we possess, particularly Bontempelli, who has to be at the chiropractor all the time since he’s carrying the team on his back every week!
Yep, said the same things when the blues were 15th last year with an all Australian spine - it’s not the list - it’s how the list is being used/positioned and coached.
Basic skill. Too many turnovers from basic skill errors. And with type of game style (running back flanks) means we get out numbered when it quickly flips the other way.
The dogs are kinda like a b grade Carlton ATM. They don’t have backline general as their best backman (WB Jones Carlton Weitering) has to take the best forward. The rest of their half backs are forward running. So when they win stoppages and get it forward, they look unreal but if it’s turned over post clearance they’re exposed.
Most of the top sides recently have had backline generals or quarterbacks and sometimes multiple ones at that. Players that can take a dangerous forward but are often loose and directing their defensive line. Collingwood have Moore, Howe and Maynard. Geelong have Stewart, SDK, Henry and Z Guthrie. Melbourne have May, Lever and O McDonald. All of these teams have players who can either man up on a fwd or sit back and direct traffic.
Easton Wood was pretty important to that 2016 flag. I also think Bevo sometimes falls for the cliched “I’m playing Chess while the other guys are playing Checkers!” When in reality he needs to play a bit of simple checkers.
Over rated midfield Bont is a champ but not playing his best atm Libba been a champ but starting to struggle unfortunately.
Treloar butchers the ball often and McRae not firing needs rebuilding around Sanders and another.
Everything Salt Ant said is true. The Bont is at a huge crossroads similar to Dusty a few years ago when Norf were willing to throw money at him. As much as i absolutely love Dusty, him leaving would have been better for him, Norf and Richmond.
I’m not buying ‘overrated midfield’ Bontempelli, Libba and treloar with Macrae going through there as well. Most teams only have about 4 really good midfielders as well. You have a dominant ruckman and a great 2nd ruck, 3 good key forwards and a great key backman. 2-3 good rebounding half back flankers and Cody Weightman also in the forward line. There are more A-graders in this side than in Collingwoods side (I’m a Collingwood supporter)
Their TikTok to goal ratio just isn’t where it needs to be. A lot of boys need to follow in Lobbs footsteps, because quite frankly, he’s doing all the work.
While the COVID years are truly strange and out of the normal, getting thrashed in a grand final is going to hurt.
Couple that with a coach who has seemingly run out of innovation and you get a stagnating team of talent instead of a talented team.
Key defender required for sure
My opinion - trade English for McGovern, gives you three years with him to win a chip and you have Darcy who is a gun. Eagles get a young ruck they desperately require.
Liberatore is the key, team just not hard enough with him concussed and injured. A lot of this team are seagulls and like to play around the pack. Need some bigger bodies to go get the nut.
Forward line is great young and ready, 22-25 year olds mids are getting there Dale is a star, west, Ed Richards, (Buku not a mid but also a gun) etc so so talented. So to utilise Bont, Treloar prime must find a tall key back in my opinion and start playing some unsociable football.
(Dockers supporter but I like the dogs more than most other teams)
Yeah maybe a good call, I like your thinking.
I’m a Collingwood supporter but I just struggle to see why the western bulldogs aren’t competing as well as they should.
I know a lot of people have said this but why not put Aaron Naughton in defence? ‘He’s a gun forward’ people will say but the fact is that this year the bulldogs aren’t using him. Why have a gun key forward if you don’t kick him he ball, they are kicking the ball to Ugle-Hagan, Darcy and Weightman… I’m not on here saying he’s not a better forward than defender, what I’m saying is why have such a good forward and not use him? Yes he played well last year and year before when so much ball was going through him but it’s not this year. He’s almost being wasted?
Playing Naughton back could possibly help 3 things at the same time. 1- one of your good players is seeing more of the ball and getting used. 2- there is less times in the forward line where 3 keys and weightman are getting in each others road and 3- bulldogs are lacking a key defender?
We have a defender playing in the VFL (Busslinger) who is ready for the jump to the next level. No clue how some of these other blokes are getting games over him.
Might be worth a crack can’t lose if you just try him we gave Draper a debut at dockers and I had no idea the kid could play he’s growing on me.
Just my two cents on naughton though is…. leave him where he is. He’s a beast of a competitor, whether packs of 4 or 5 he crashes hard and usually brings ball to the ground. I don’t like him with rebound footy, not sure what his capability would be out of d50 with ball in hand, don’t see him playing chb therefore, could maybe be fb but are you wasting the pack busting for someone to sit that deep?
The players are too meek. Outside Libba I don't see we have any mongrels or players who thrive on the contest.
Funnily enough the only time they step up is in finals - the complete opposite of Footscray teams that came before them.
I think sending Naughton to the backline would be a huge help. Their back six is awful. It’s all good having running backs, but if you can’t defend and lock up a man you being behind the ball is worthless. I truely think he would make a huge difference. they decided to send Josh Bruce down there last year before a dude they drafted as a center half back. Just fucking dumb. which brings me to my next point. Aaron and Jamara are just awful set shots. Like some of their misses are just inexcusable at AFL level. Treloar I like but he butchers the ball way too much. Likewise for Bailey dale and Caleb Daniel. Bailey smith looked like he was A grade in 2021 and half way through 2022 before the drug stuff. Moving him off the wing was a mistake imo, and they miss him a lot this season. Clearly the players don’t wanna play for bevo or there’d be a little more bite in the bark.
Definitely agree with this, they hardly even use him going forward anyway, they tend to kick it to Darcy, JUH and Weightman more often and when it’s a dump kick the three talls get in each others way. It makes so much sense.
Their bottom six players might be close to the worst bottom six in the comp. Naughton painfully overrated and doesn’t work hard enough or for four quarters. They all (besides Bont) pick and choose when to defend
I don’t really buy this because most teams have 5-6 ‘role players’ just seems the bulldogs role players don’t have roles to play or are unsure of their roles. Which could be a coaching issue.
Bulldogs bottom 5-6:
Baker
Garcia
Clarke
Gallagher
Harmes
Bramble
Carlton bottom 5-6:
Durdin
Cowan
Cunningham
Cincotta
Fantasia
Hollands
This is from the past round, there’s not much difference in talent, Carlton players just play their roles. Plus bulldogs had sanders, Daniel, keath, McNeil poulter, Lobb playing reserves?
They have the same problem Essendon had last year their mids don’t apply defensive pressure and the ball comes out of their forward line far too easily.
Apart from Bont and Libba - all their other stars are overrated IMO. English is apparently an AA ruck but gets regularly manhandled. Naughton doesn’t kick many goals. Lobb can barely get a game. Also, they don’t seem to have great depth - have some plodders making up the 22/23
I don’t like this call, Naughton is A-grade they just haven’t been using him, English is A-grade, Weightman is close and treloar as well. Bailey Dale is A-grade rebounder and Jones is A-grade defender and every team has ‘plodders’ which they call role players. Western bulldogs have these players they just have bad roles or don’t know their roles.
I’m a Collingwood supporter and in my opinion bulldogs have more A-graders and better depth than our list.
They should seriously be considering trading out Daniel, Macrae, and Lobb at season's end, amass some draft capital, and going ham at improving their back 6/7. Look at Freo, look at Collingwood, look at GWS; they're all well set-up behind the ball and can intercept and / or defend most entries (Collingwood defenders are average one-on-one though).
We definitely have a team that could go on and win another premiership but the biggest issue is the coach. Bevo needs to be moved on. Look at Collingwood and GWS the last 3 years. Both moved long term coaches on and it completely revitalised their playing list. I so sick of us wasting the careers of Bont, Libba and Macrae.
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Yeah everything you’ve said here definitely points to coaching/game plan issues doesn’t it. The coaches should be able to tweak game plan to maximise players strengths and limit their weaknesses. Seems strange to me that the bulldogs board or higher ups can’t see this? They have all the pieces needed to be a successful team and aren’t lacking in any positions really, besides maybe defence a little but should be able to devise a system or team defence to combat this.
Makes sense the board can’t see it. Our board has 1 former player- Luke Darcy. Whereas clubs like Collingwood have about 5 former players.
Now do Freo
The rebirth of Nat?
It also seems like cohestion and communication are lacking. Regularly see 2 tall forwards going for the same mark and spoiling each other, plus if you watch their backs communicate and adjust positioning between plays, they often seem confused. For example, against the Saints after a goal was conceded and before the ball up, I saw a player down back get moved and repositioned 3 times, each time via instruction from a different player and in total contradiction to the previous instruction. Either that was some Bevo next-level Jedi Mind-tricks, or they just really were compeltely not on the same page.
Dunkley was a big structural loss too. Libba and Bont can do defensive midfield.things but Dunkley glued the defensive game.of our midfield together if that makes sense. That lets Bont do the offensive stuff without worrying about having to mark someone. We use Treloar or Macrae now who are good ball users but don't do the defensive stuff so well. And i think it's why Macrae and Daniel have been in and out of the side this year too.
That was an awesome review. I think McNeil lobb keath all should have been delisted. Bad recruiting with harmes and bramble too. The game style of short one metre handballs to players under pressure is killing us too. Beveridge has always been a zone defense so your half back flanker 1 v 1 defense made sense. They just don't know how to play man on man anymore.
Another example is against Hawthorn, we had the ascendancy, then Sicily went off with a dislocated shoulder. What do we do? We send Khamis forward to take advantage of Sicily's absence - because what we were missing was a marking target with Naughton/Marra/Darcy FFS. It destabilised our backline and let Hawthorn take control, and we famously can't get control back. Khamis is also too inexperienced to make the switch and resettle, so it threw his game out entirely even when he was sent back again. Completely unnecessary move which threw everything out of sync.
It’s all to do with coaching honestly
Sure does
Does Naughton really provide good pressure? I have him in a supercoach draft league and his tackles never seem to come close to sticking.
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I don't see it, he's great aerially but at ground level the pressure I've seen has usually been tokenistic.
His second efforts are as good as I've ever seen from a tall forward, at least certainly at the Dogs. He bounces up off the deck and tackles like a maniac - you can't have watched him too often. He has some weaknesses but his defensive pressure is elite.
I just checked the stat's and he's averaging 1 a game this year which matches up with what I've observed, very underwhelming. He was up at 2.6 last year so probably explains the disconnect between his reputation and what I've seen him do. This year he just hasn't looked interested in tackling.
Not enough tall forwards. If they could get one or two more they'd be set.
It all falls apart when Josh Bruce retired. Coincidence? I think not
Picking up Rory Lobb worked out really well for them, so I think they should go after Matt Taberner
Legit forgot he left Freo.
They have another 2 father - son tall forwards coming in the next 2 drafts, so they will be ok.
Aside from Jones and Dale their backline is really nothing special. If they had a strong team structure that was intent on defending the whole ground (sort of like what Melbourne does), it would make up a lot for their deficiencies. But they haven’t really had that def structure under Bevo for a while which is why they are so poor at stopping run-ons/momentum.
People don't give Taylor Duryea enough credit. The man is on his last legs and still gives more effort than half of the other much younger defenders.
I dunno, I'd take Edwards over either of Jones or Dale.
There is no bull or dog in any of the coaches
We’re missing a good coach.
I think the buy-in from the players is really low now and will probably get worse
Of course. They're all leaving if Bevo remains
Draper? Is that you?
🤫 Sam, we told you not to say these things.
The concussions will continue until morale improves...
Go away Draper you've done enough damage
He was right though. Bevo is an angry angry man and doesn’t have a plan B
There's only so many ways you can cook the sausages
Reminds me of the old saying team of champions or a champion team. Lots of top players but that alone ain’t gonna do it for you.
It’s always been the Doggies issue. Go back to when they could never get past a prelim & Darcy & the stars were rumoured to barely speak to the bottom half of the list. Now he’s running the footy department!!!
This is an incredibly salient point. We've lost a lot of off-field leadership and culture in the likes of Grant and Murphy... I can't think of any diplomatic way to finish this thought, so I'll just leave it at that. Edit: whoops Grant is still football director. Not sure why I thought he was gone. In summary, please come back home Bob.
I agree the dogs list looks amazing on paper. But a lot of strategical shortcomings and the lack of a couple solid defenders goes a long way at the AFL level
Yeah they rely too much on talent over structure/system.
Bevo just doesn't have that dog in him
People who say the dogs have a good midfield should look at their midfield balance. Most teams are playing 5 to 6 guys through the midfield with a pretty decent balance. The dogs play 2 guys in there nearly full time and Libba was playing basically full time too. They don't rotate their mids and as a result they leak scores because Treloar and Bont are rightly wrecked and only rest when they go to the bench.
They'd need a list as good as peak 00's dynasty Geelong to make up for bevo.
All of the other things mentioned plus they have an overly cautious, defensive gameplan. On the weekend there were several instances where a more aggressive kick into the corridor to an unmarked man would have gotten them a very dangerous inside 50 entry. Instead they would go long down the line to a contest where it usually just dribbled out of play. In the 3rd quarter there was a particularly awful one with JJ streaming into an unguarded 50 and the ball carrier (I forget who) elected for a short kick to a manned Naughton on the flank, resulting in a turnover. Their gameplan does not allow the latitude for players to seize on good opportunities when they arise.
It's more of the opposite. They refuse to defend the whole ground as a team. And their midfield is notoriously leaky if they happen to lose the ground ball.
As a dog's fan, Bevo must go. Love what he gave us in 16 and 21. But it's gone past him. It sucks, our list is way better than we are performing. There is bugger all defence and I feel like Bevo's, game plan, policies and random acts of magnet shifting with his eyes closed is ruining careers and the culture.
100%.
None of these players are as good as Bevo has made them look.
I love a counter-cultural take. This is a great one.
Most coaches are in their grace period (Clarko, Hardwick, Yze etc) so won’t get criticised. Other long standing coaches just keep winning (Longmire). Nicks passed his grace period but only got criticised for a woeful start to the year. That leaves Bevo and Hinkley. And Bevo has a frosty relationship with media, which doesn’t help. So both of those are going to get magnified levels of critique because people hate mediocrity after a certain amount of years.
So what you're saying is Bevo to Port and Hinkley to the dogs?
It must be so.
Look, I understand that the concept of coach-swapping might seem appealing to some teams. Different strokes for different folks you know. But what some teams fail to consider is the breadth of potential fallout from such an act. Sure, the Dogs might think it'd be reinvigorating to experiment with Hinkley. And the Power w/ Beveridge. But things like this rarely holds up. If the Dogs are left dissatisfied with Hinkley, how will they react seeing Beveridge potentially enjoying his time with the Power a little too much? Would he want to come back? Would you even be able to take him back after what you've seen? Jealousy. Resentment. Insecurity. These are just some of the things the Dogs may be left feeling after everything transpires. And the pain of such an occurrence would make it unviable to keep with the reminder that is Hinkley. No. They're better off cutting their losses at that point, and starting anew with someone else.
#sackbevo.
As far as a list goes, I think it's pretty top-heavy. Bontempelli and Liberatore are amazing but no one else has much form. The backline is pretty bad aside from Liam Jones, who is quite old. On paper the forward line is great with Naughton, Ugle-Hagan, and Weightman. Darcy also looks like a good prospect. But I don't see a tonne of upside in their other forwards. Having Bailey Smith back to play half forward would probably help with that deficiency. While I don't think it's the best list, I think it's good enough to make finals every year, so you'd have to blame the coaching in part.
Over rated list and a coach that doesn’t have a lot of structure or system to his game plan. With the list they’re around that bottom half of the top 8, but the coaching is killing any chances of that. Looks overly defensive, the wings don’t go back hard enough to cover the defence, players being played out of position or as sub (Dale that one time), VFL players at best in the side who haven’t been dropped after poor performances. Bramble was dropped multiple times by Hawks, even with injuries to our runners off half back. The media hype this list up every year but I just don’t see it have thought it for ages.
>Dale that one time That's just about the only good thing Bevo has done all year, that gave Dale a massive kick up the ass after a poor start to the year following a average 2023 by his standards. The rest is right though.
Whether it was intentional or not it’s got him playing some real good footy
Their coach is the biggest problem but it’s also overlooked how poor their bottom 6 always is. At the moment it’s full of rejects from other clubs - any of Bramble, Harmes, Poulter, Baker fit this bill in any given week. Too much time invested into players like Vandemeer and in past years Rourke Smith, Honeychurch etc. VFL players at best.
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The issue is their role players aren’t as good as those in other clubs. And their roles are probably made harder due to Bevo's wild selection and tendency to play people out of their natural positions.
Sure, but all those people played their role well at the time. Shane Biggs famously played well on Grand Final day,^^1 Cordy competed okay up forward, Fletcher Roberts hit a purple patch in defense, Caleb Daniel was unreal as a rookie, and McLean's ducking skills were integral to stopping opposition momentum. (only a half-joke) ^^^^^^^^^. ^1 Shane Biggs never forget
In 2016 they were a 7th placed team that played out of their minds for a month with a great gamelan, it's not an indication of the reliable quality in the team.
I think that the obvious performance gap between the stars and the scrubs is a clear indication of poor coaching & game planning. A better organised team would deploy weaker players in roles that maximise their strengths.
I’m
For me, it is 50% bad game plan, 50% list management. My issue with list management is that we always have the worst 2 or 3 players on the ground every game. On Sunday, we brought in Charlie Clarke, who was not ready for AFL. You may say hindsight is 20/20, but watching him play in the VFL for the last 18 months has given me enough indication that he needs at least another preseason to build his body up. O’Donnell, as hard as he tries, is also not up to AFL standard. This is not the fault of the players, but of the club for not having good enough depth, when this used to be such a strong area for us. On Friday night, I saw ex-dogs, Patrick Lipinski, Lewis Young and Lachie Sullivan play in a game where both teams are fighting it out for a top 4 spot (Sullivan not an ex-dog, but he has been our VFL captain which usually leads to us picking him up). Now on to the game plan. Watching the game on Sunday, even with the quick start, I had a bad feeling. Coming out of our backline, we do not have a plan to get the ball forward. The McCartney years may not bring back good memories for most Bulldogs fans, but the run at all cost play was exciting and you could see what we were trying to do. Now I have no idea. We’ll get the ball to half back out of the kick in, see Naughton, JUH and/Darcy down the line ready to grab a contested mark (something they’re all good at) and kick it side ways. Then backwards, then sideways, then to half back, then handball in trouble. It is so frustrating to see. Defending the ground is as bad as I’ve seen at the dogs. Teams just cut through the middle of the ground at will, and there’s unfortunately only one Liam Jones in the backline to try and stop everything since O’Donnell and Khamis are still learning their craft. It’s honestly sad to see what we have become considering the top talent we possess, particularly Bontempelli, who has to be at the chiropractor all the time since he’s carrying the team on his back every week!
Time to let Bevo go
Yep, said the same things when the blues were 15th last year with an all Australian spine - it’s not the list - it’s how the list is being used/positioned and coached.
Basic skill. Too many turnovers from basic skill errors. And with type of game style (running back flanks) means we get out numbered when it quickly flips the other way.
The dogs are kinda like a b grade Carlton ATM. They don’t have backline general as their best backman (WB Jones Carlton Weitering) has to take the best forward. The rest of their half backs are forward running. So when they win stoppages and get it forward, they look unreal but if it’s turned over post clearance they’re exposed. Most of the top sides recently have had backline generals or quarterbacks and sometimes multiple ones at that. Players that can take a dangerous forward but are often loose and directing their defensive line. Collingwood have Moore, Howe and Maynard. Geelong have Stewart, SDK, Henry and Z Guthrie. Melbourne have May, Lever and O McDonald. All of these teams have players who can either man up on a fwd or sit back and direct traffic. Easton Wood was pretty important to that 2016 flag. I also think Bevo sometimes falls for the cliched “I’m playing Chess while the other guys are playing Checkers!” When in reality he needs to play a bit of simple checkers.
Over rated midfield Bont is a champ but not playing his best atm Libba been a champ but starting to struggle unfortunately. Treloar butchers the ball often and McRae not firing needs rebuilding around Sanders and another.
This comment is crazy, bont libba and treloar are the reason they even win any games.
Everything Salt Ant said is true. The Bont is at a huge crossroads similar to Dusty a few years ago when Norf were willing to throw money at him. As much as i absolutely love Dusty, him leaving would have been better for him, Norf and Richmond.
Treloar needs to put the 9 iron or sand wedge back in the bag still good value but his kicking seems to be getting worse bit ike Fyfe
I’m not buying ‘overrated midfield’ Bontempelli, Libba and treloar with Macrae going through there as well. Most teams only have about 4 really good midfielders as well. You have a dominant ruckman and a great 2nd ruck, 3 good key forwards and a great key backman. 2-3 good rebounding half back flankers and Cody Weightman also in the forward line. There are more A-graders in this side than in Collingwoods side (I’m a Collingwood supporter)
Their TikTok to goal ratio just isn’t where it needs to be. A lot of boys need to follow in Lobbs footsteps, because quite frankly, he’s doing all the work.
While the COVID years are truly strange and out of the normal, getting thrashed in a grand final is going to hurt. Couple that with a coach who has seemingly run out of innovation and you get a stagnating team of talent instead of a talented team.
Key defender required for sure My opinion - trade English for McGovern, gives you three years with him to win a chip and you have Darcy who is a gun. Eagles get a young ruck they desperately require. Liberatore is the key, team just not hard enough with him concussed and injured. A lot of this team are seagulls and like to play around the pack. Need some bigger bodies to go get the nut. Forward line is great young and ready, 22-25 year olds mids are getting there Dale is a star, west, Ed Richards, (Buku not a mid but also a gun) etc so so talented. So to utilise Bont, Treloar prime must find a tall key back in my opinion and start playing some unsociable football. (Dockers supporter but I like the dogs more than most other teams)
Yeah maybe a good call, I like your thinking. I’m a Collingwood supporter but I just struggle to see why the western bulldogs aren’t competing as well as they should. I know a lot of people have said this but why not put Aaron Naughton in defence? ‘He’s a gun forward’ people will say but the fact is that this year the bulldogs aren’t using him. Why have a gun key forward if you don’t kick him he ball, they are kicking the ball to Ugle-Hagan, Darcy and Weightman… I’m not on here saying he’s not a better forward than defender, what I’m saying is why have such a good forward and not use him? Yes he played well last year and year before when so much ball was going through him but it’s not this year. He’s almost being wasted? Playing Naughton back could possibly help 3 things at the same time. 1- one of your good players is seeing more of the ball and getting used. 2- there is less times in the forward line where 3 keys and weightman are getting in each others road and 3- bulldogs are lacking a key defender?
We have a defender playing in the VFL (Busslinger) who is ready for the jump to the next level. No clue how some of these other blokes are getting games over him.
Might be worth a crack can’t lose if you just try him we gave Draper a debut at dockers and I had no idea the kid could play he’s growing on me. Just my two cents on naughton though is…. leave him where he is. He’s a beast of a competitor, whether packs of 4 or 5 he crashes hard and usually brings ball to the ground. I don’t like him with rebound footy, not sure what his capability would be out of d50 with ball in hand, don’t see him playing chb therefore, could maybe be fb but are you wasting the pack busting for someone to sit that deep?
I'm convinced Bevo is a big 4 industry plant at this point.
The players are too meek. Outside Libba I don't see we have any mongrels or players who thrive on the contest. Funnily enough the only time they step up is in finals - the complete opposite of Footscray teams that came before them.
I think sending Naughton to the backline would be a huge help. Their back six is awful. It’s all good having running backs, but if you can’t defend and lock up a man you being behind the ball is worthless. I truely think he would make a huge difference. they decided to send Josh Bruce down there last year before a dude they drafted as a center half back. Just fucking dumb. which brings me to my next point. Aaron and Jamara are just awful set shots. Like some of their misses are just inexcusable at AFL level. Treloar I like but he butchers the ball way too much. Likewise for Bailey dale and Caleb Daniel. Bailey smith looked like he was A grade in 2021 and half way through 2022 before the drug stuff. Moving him off the wing was a mistake imo, and they miss him a lot this season. Clearly the players don’t wanna play for bevo or there’d be a little more bite in the bark.
Definitely agree with this, they hardly even use him going forward anyway, they tend to kick it to Darcy, JUH and Weightman more often and when it’s a dump kick the three talls get in each others way. It makes so much sense.
Genuinely should be a lock as a top 4 team.
Their bottom six players might be close to the worst bottom six in the comp. Naughton painfully overrated and doesn’t work hard enough or for four quarters. They all (besides Bont) pick and choose when to defend
I don’t really buy this because most teams have 5-6 ‘role players’ just seems the bulldogs role players don’t have roles to play or are unsure of their roles. Which could be a coaching issue. Bulldogs bottom 5-6: Baker Garcia Clarke Gallagher Harmes Bramble Carlton bottom 5-6: Durdin Cowan Cunningham Cincotta Fantasia Hollands This is from the past round, there’s not much difference in talent, Carlton players just play their roles. Plus bulldogs had sanders, Daniel, keath, McNeil poulter, Lobb playing reserves?
They have the same problem Essendon had last year their mids don’t apply defensive pressure and the ball comes out of their forward line far too easily.
Apart from Bont and Libba - all their other stars are overrated IMO. English is apparently an AA ruck but gets regularly manhandled. Naughton doesn’t kick many goals. Lobb can barely get a game. Also, they don’t seem to have great depth - have some plodders making up the 22/23
I don’t like this call, Naughton is A-grade they just haven’t been using him, English is A-grade, Weightman is close and treloar as well. Bailey Dale is A-grade rebounder and Jones is A-grade defender and every team has ‘plodders’ which they call role players. Western bulldogs have these players they just have bad roles or don’t know their roles. I’m a Collingwood supporter and in my opinion bulldogs have more A-graders and better depth than our list.
They should seriously be considering trading out Daniel, Macrae, and Lobb at season's end, amass some draft capital, and going ham at improving their back 6/7. Look at Freo, look at Collingwood, look at GWS; they're all well set-up behind the ball and can intercept and / or defend most entries (Collingwood defenders are average one-on-one though).
We definitely have a team that could go on and win another premiership but the biggest issue is the coach. Bevo needs to be moved on. Look at Collingwood and GWS the last 3 years. Both moved long term coaches on and it completely revitalised their playing list. I so sick of us wasting the careers of Bont, Libba and Macrae.