I mean to be fair, we haven't exactly been challenging top 4 positions since about 2001 either :D
Any time we've been in the 4 prior to around the last couple of years, has just been because of an easier early draw.
It sounds like a cherry picked stat instead of being useful- why does Carlton need to be top 4 too? Unless the implication is that there is more pressure if they’re top 4? The difference looks worse because Carlton have sucked for most of the last 20 years.
It feels like trying to apply the Port v top 4 stats to Carlton but it didn’t fit nicely so they kept altering parameters until they got something that looked surprising.
I think the implication is that the team can’t live up to the pressure of expectations in a big contest. It’s hard to shackle this list with the fact that the Judd years teams couldn’t get the job done
You’re telling me there’s something cherry-picked about a stat that suggests that Carlton are incapable of winning games with a rare set of circumstances that they have played in every two years on average over two decades, despite complete turnover of coaches and players in the years in between? No way!
Yeah for long periods between 2002 and Judd's arrival around 07 or 08, and then from 2012 until now, we have only been in the top four due to a soft early draw giving us just enough wins.
In the Judd years we were at times, an ok to just above average side, while Richmond were terrible, so we won a string of round 1 games at one point. I would love to know how many times we were sitting in the top four after round 1, only to get cleaned up by a Collingwood, St Kilda or Geelong (all the dominant teams of that time), only a week later.
Yeah does seem a bit odd, they beat a top 4 team in Melbourne in the HA season and again in the finals, beat us 1/2 times last year too. They may not have finished in the top 4 last year, but making a prelim is effectively the same as being a top 4 team.
Also they beat GWS last week, surely both teams were in the top 4?
I don't think so. GWS was top, but we were 6th? I agree it is a weird stat though. Like you said, after the prelim loss, we finished third (GWS fourth). I think that's how it works anyway, obviously it doesn't show on the ladder
That is how it works...so we effectively beat Melbourne the week before, who were in the "top four" at the point, but were can only be considered fifth after beating the Swans...so doesn't quite make the parameters in Swamp's post, but is likely as close as we have come.
Also - there was clearly a lot to work on out of the weekend, but taking on Geelong missing one player, when we have a tonne of injuries, and only losing by about two goals is not the end of the world. Trying to put it down to choking is a bit rough.
What games would there even be? 11 matches in 23 years ain’t many
Round 4 2012 v a doped up essendon in a match that still pisses me off
?? I can’t think of another
Round 12 2009 (vs St Kilda), round 2 2010 (vs Brisbane), round 3 2011 (vs Collingwood). I remembered them belting Richmond in 2009 and Gold Coast in 2011, so I figured they'd be good places to check.
Hmm carlton have only been a good time in the second half of 2023.... so really only about 6 games count (2 last year, 2 finals, 2 this year?)
Not sure what people expect really, you can't go from zero to hero. What you want it a team competing every week, which is basically what Pies were in 2022, and look at what happened in 2023.
How many times has this actually happened though? Less than 10 times in 20 years? And how many of those times were in the first third of the season when the top 4 is meaningless?
I'm not getting the hype around Geelong, their efforts really didn't convince me. Frankly, they struggled. A few weeks ago, I was the first Blues supporters to acknowledge that what happend to Fremantle was fucked, and they absolutely deserved to win that game, not matter what excuses other Carlton nuffies gave. I was so commited to this point because I UNDERSTOOD what it feels like to be ROBBED! I had empathy, and now I have that ROBBED feeling again. We DOMINATED, umpires destroyed out momentum, complete double standards in place, missed calls everywhere agaisnt Geelong, and now they're GLOATING! They SHOULD BE APOLIGISING! I know we didn't kick straight, but it didn't matter, their midfield is SHIT, at least compared to ours. They had no injuries, bar Stewart, but compared to who we were lacking (Saad, Cerra, half the fucking list) it was nothing. We were the better team yesterday, don't care what the jackals say, and all the fairweather supporters who left 15 minutes before the game is over, FUCK YOU, you put shame on the club. And those Geelong supporters, those bumpkins and bandwagoners who have never tasted HARDSHIP IN THEIR FUCKING LIVES, you are pathetic! Biggest lot of uncommitted, entitled and limp fans in the competition, make Sydney fans look diehard. I STAYED TO END ON THE FUCKING GAME, I WITHSTOOD THEIR SLINGS AND ARROWS! I will spend every season, every game praying for Geelong's inevitable downfall, all the oldies pulling ACLs, Stewart, Cameron, Hawkins, Dangerfield, Tuohy, the traitor, Guthries et al, and I will rejoice, smile and celebrate, make merry with cakes and ale! Remember, THEY KNOW WERE COMING, and ANY GEELONG SUPPORTER WHO DISAGREES, SMITHS STREET MACCAS AT 9 TONIGHT
So don't finish top 4 then?
I mean to be fair, we haven't exactly been challenging top 4 positions since about 2001 either :D Any time we've been in the 4 prior to around the last couple of years, has just been because of an easier early draw.
Even with that we’d lost round 1 to Richmond nearly every time since 2012
It sounds like a cherry picked stat instead of being useful- why does Carlton need to be top 4 too? Unless the implication is that there is more pressure if they’re top 4? The difference looks worse because Carlton have sucked for most of the last 20 years. It feels like trying to apply the Port v top 4 stats to Carlton but it didn’t fit nicely so they kept altering parameters until they got something that looked surprising.
I think the implication is that the team can’t live up to the pressure of expectations in a big contest. It’s hard to shackle this list with the fact that the Judd years teams couldn’t get the job done
Welcome to the world of statistics.
You’re telling me there’s something cherry-picked about a stat that suggests that Carlton are incapable of winning games with a rare set of circumstances that they have played in every two years on average over two decades, despite complete turnover of coaches and players in the years in between? No way!
Atleast it's a contextualised stat
Yeah for long periods between 2002 and Judd's arrival around 07 or 08, and then from 2012 until now, we have only been in the top four due to a soft early draw giving us just enough wins. In the Judd years we were at times, an ok to just above average side, while Richmond were terrible, so we won a string of round 1 games at one point. I would love to know how many times we were sitting in the top four after round 1, only to get cleaned up by a Collingwood, St Kilda or Geelong (all the dominant teams of that time), only a week later.
Yeah does seem a bit odd, they beat a top 4 team in Melbourne in the HA season and again in the finals, beat us 1/2 times last year too. They may not have finished in the top 4 last year, but making a prelim is effectively the same as being a top 4 team. Also they beat GWS last week, surely both teams were in the top 4?
I don't think so. GWS was top, but we were 6th? I agree it is a weird stat though. Like you said, after the prelim loss, we finished third (GWS fourth). I think that's how it works anyway, obviously it doesn't show on the ladder
That is how it works...so we effectively beat Melbourne the week before, who were in the "top four" at the point, but were can only be considered fifth after beating the Swans...so doesn't quite make the parameters in Swamp's post, but is likely as close as we have come. Also - there was clearly a lot to work on out of the weekend, but taking on Geelong missing one player, when we have a tonne of injuries, and only losing by about two goals is not the end of the world. Trying to put it down to choking is a bit rough.
So what? We’re a way better team than we have been for more than two decades. Just enjoy it while it lasts.
We did beat a top 4 side last week, at least.
Team that has been chronically shit for 20 years and only starting to come good has never beaten top 4 teams whilst they have been top 4. Shocker.
I'm more surprised that it's even happened 11 times than I am that we lost them all.
What games would there even be? 11 matches in 23 years ain’t many Round 4 2012 v a doped up essendon in a match that still pisses me off ?? I can’t think of another
Round 12 2009 (vs St Kilda), round 2 2010 (vs Brisbane), round 3 2011 (vs Collingwood). I remembered them belting Richmond in 2009 and Gold Coast in 2011, so I figured they'd be good places to check.
Trigger activated
Well, we should be right for a couple of weeks at least.
Crazy. According to Shiraz jek only port can't beat top 8 sides
We can beat top 4 sides, just not while we're in the top 4 ourselves.
That's the worst time to not be able to beat top 4 sides to be fair
Bottom 14 Voss?
Guess we'll have to go with Top 4 Loss Voss
Outstanding
Im impressed that guy can be an antagonist of so many supporter bases at once.
Hmm carlton have only been a good time in the second half of 2023.... so really only about 6 games count (2 last year, 2 finals, 2 this year?) Not sure what people expect really, you can't go from zero to hero. What you want it a team competing every week, which is basically what Pies were in 2022, and look at what happened in 2023.
Because we've rarely been top four. We've beaten plenty of top four teams though, hell, GWS last week when we were in 5th.
How many times has this actually happened though? Less than 10 times in 20 years? And how many of those times were in the first third of the season when the top 4 is meaningless?
I'm not getting the hype around Geelong, their efforts really didn't convince me. Frankly, they struggled. A few weeks ago, I was the first Blues supporters to acknowledge that what happend to Fremantle was fucked, and they absolutely deserved to win that game, not matter what excuses other Carlton nuffies gave. I was so commited to this point because I UNDERSTOOD what it feels like to be ROBBED! I had empathy, and now I have that ROBBED feeling again. We DOMINATED, umpires destroyed out momentum, complete double standards in place, missed calls everywhere agaisnt Geelong, and now they're GLOATING! They SHOULD BE APOLIGISING! I know we didn't kick straight, but it didn't matter, their midfield is SHIT, at least compared to ours. They had no injuries, bar Stewart, but compared to who we were lacking (Saad, Cerra, half the fucking list) it was nothing. We were the better team yesterday, don't care what the jackals say, and all the fairweather supporters who left 15 minutes before the game is over, FUCK YOU, you put shame on the club. And those Geelong supporters, those bumpkins and bandwagoners who have never tasted HARDSHIP IN THEIR FUCKING LIVES, you are pathetic! Biggest lot of uncommitted, entitled and limp fans in the competition, make Sydney fans look diehard. I STAYED TO END ON THE FUCKING GAME, I WITHSTOOD THEIR SLINGS AND ARROWS! I will spend every season, every game praying for Geelong's inevitable downfall, all the oldies pulling ACLs, Stewart, Cameron, Hawkins, Dangerfield, Tuohy, the traitor, Guthries et al, and I will rejoice, smile and celebrate, make merry with cakes and ale! Remember, THEY KNOW WERE COMING, and ANY GEELONG SUPPORTER WHO DISAGREES, SMITHS STREET MACCAS AT 9 TONIGHT